The Veil of Honor

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

We're in chambers this week to clear the docket.

And with me, as always, is the man with the softest chore coat in all of Brooklyn, Judge John Hodgman.

Yeah,

I got a chore coat.

I'm in a chore coat mood.

Nothing wrong with a chore coat.

Jesse, how would you describe what a chore coat is to the people out there?

A chore coat is a type of typically work jacket with with four patch pockets, usually

maybe sometimes three, but typically four.

Over your waist and two and two over your

boob areas.

Yeah, and a square hem and no darts.

It looks sort of like

boxy.

It's boxy.

Yeah.

It's boxy with boxy like that kid from Battlestar Galactica.

Okay.

Yeah.

With pockets, with with buttons up the front.

With pockets up the front.

With buttons up the front.

Did you end up putting it in the, put it to put it in the dryer with?

Well, what happened, everybody, is I bought it blind off of a website.

I couldn't find anything on put this on.

You should have some more chore jackets on there because there's a very classic blue French chore jacket that

they make a lot of records.

Cunningham was famous for wearing.

Yeah, exactly.

I went to a vintage shop and bought one of these things blind.

It's this old gray piece of overall.

I think the brand is universal.

I don't want to take it off right now, but I'll let you know if I made a mistake later.

Jennifer Marmer, after the credits, maybe I'll sneak in with a surprise post-credit sequence to reveal the brand of this thing.

But it's a vintage, it's a very, very old piece of workwear that had never been worn.

I got it in the mail, and I could have cut cheese with it.

It was so stiff.

You know, I could have cut some of that mozzarella snacking cheese with it.

It is real workwear.

That's why you're wearing it at work right now.

Yeah, and we had talked so much about

jeans and denim.

I was like,

I had to text Jesse to find out what to do with this thing.

I'm like, Jesse, do I need to put this on and wear it into the ocean and have it drip off my body for the rest of the day?

Is that how I beat this thing into submission?

And he said, no, just wash it and put it in the dryer.

And it came out great.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Hey, here's a dispute from Teresa from Location.

Hang on a second.

I got to, hang on.

Leave this in.

Yay.

I'm so excited, Jesse.

Do you know why?

Why?

I didn't, you probably can't hear it because I'm so well soundproofed here.

But I was concerned we wouldn't be able to record because my, the, you know, I'm in this office and the downstairs neighbor is doing some work or having some work done rather on his patio.

He had a new patio put in.

And for some reason.

uh they've spent the entire morning running a leaf blower over this patio to dry stuff and i was like oh it's leafy leafy's back remember jesse thorne when you were plagued by a leaf blower yeah that came early this year to my neighbor's yard at exactly the moment that I recorded every week.

They were very consistent.

The gardeners were on time.

I don't know whether you all heard it on the recording, but Leafy's back and loving it.

All right, let's get into this doc.

Here's something from Teresa from Location Unknown.

My wife and I cannot agree on when a person should clean the lint filter in the dryer.

She cleans it when she takes dry clothes out.

I clean it just before starting a new load.

My method is more efficient.

The next person to use the dryer has to check the filter anyway.

So if you clean it right before you start a load, you save a filter lift.

Meanwhile, my mom starts a load drying and then clears the filter while the dryer is running.

Whoa.

This is clearly lawless.

Wow.

Who's right?

Well, yeah, we don't know where Teresa is from.

Sometimes people don't say where they're from, and that's fine.

You can keep that a secret.

But I'm I'm kind of curious because I never said lint filter in my life.

I would say lint screen.

What do you say, Jesse Thorne?

I think I would say lint filter.

But, you know, like a lot of Californians, I would use both interchangeably.

Yeah, right.

Jennifer Marmor, what would you say, lint filter or lint screen?

I say lint screen.

Lint screen, and you're a Californian, too.

Yep.

I don't know.

I don't want to encourage people to write in to say whether they say lint filter or lint screen.

That's a lot of email for me to clean out of the lint filter of my email box.

But if there if there is a regionalism here, or if you're listening, Teresa, let me know where this happened because I always only ever said lint screen.

We're not data journalists.

No, that's exactly right.

I don't want to crunch the numbers.

I just want to dispense justice.

This one's obvious.

I only put this one in

because I've gotten a number of letters from people like this, including a recent letter from

Bill and Cheryl.

Same dispute.

When do you clean the lint screen?

And the answer is obvious.

Correct, Jesse?

I feel like I'm in a trap.

No, no, no.

Don't worry.

I mean, you do have to clean it before you put the clothes in because otherwise...

Wait, is the answer?

No.

You have to take a look at it before you put the clothes in because you don't want to start a fire.

You don't want to start a fire in your dryer.

It's a dryer, not a fire.

What did I do when I put my chore jacket

into the dryer?

I checked the lint filter.

I also checked the lint screen.

I also checked the lint trap, another thing sometimes people say.

I'm always going to check it because I don't want there to be a fire, Teresa's wife.

Now, Teresa's wife is trying to be nice.

What Teresa's wife is trying to do here is make it easy on the next person, which is a very considerate thing to do.

But, you know,

it's like you're going to check.

You have to check.

So just leave it.

Don't do that extra work, Teresa's wife.

Just go ahead and it the rule from now on.

When you put clothes in the dryer, lift up the lint screen, clean it off.

You don't have to do it after you've done it already, unless you're putting in a new load.

As far as what Teresa's mother is up to, I do not understand that at all.

And I would love to hear Teresa's mother's explanation.

Teresa's mom, do me a favor.

Write in.

I want to know why you are checking the lint filter in the middle of the cycle and what that's accomplishing.

And let me know where Teresa is.

I'm tired of this mystery.

Remember to clean your ducts about once a year.

Yeah, I got a great duct guy who comes in.

Whew, I just text him.

He just shows up.

I also love my duct guy.

He just comes, kapow, it's done.

He puts in a thing.

He does a whole thing.

If you don't understand what we're talking about,

if you're lucky enough to have a clothes dryer in your home, you know,

it vents to the outside world.

And lint is going up there too.

And if that gets clogged up with lint, that can catch fire and you're going to have a terrible problem.

So you got to call a duct specialist to come in and

it's such a, what makes it so insulin.

It's a special auger.

Yeah, it's like a special, like a long tool and they like a rotor rooter and they just pull out all this lint and it's so satisfying.

I don't want to be gross, but we're going to be talking about flatulence later.

It's like you never get a really good nose pick.

This is like that.

I got Jennifer Marmor on that one, but you know what I'm talking about, Jennifer Marmer.

We're all humans here.

We're all discarded.

Of course.

Of course.

Can I put in a plug for a potential regionalism?

Sure.

This would be a regionalism people use around the area of Santa Cruz, California.

My friend Matt Dobbs from college, just really good at thinking of the wrong word to say for something,

used to say that he had to put his clothes into the cooker.

And

I just always enjoyed it.

I'd love to see people use that more.

For the dryer, the cooker?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, the cooker.

Got to cook that.

The wash cycle is done.

I got to toss them in the cooker.

Let me cook my clothes real quick and then I'll come out.

That's a new regionalism in the region of the Judge Sean Hodgman listenership.

From now on, we call the dryer the cooker.

Here's something from Brian Cook in Boston.

Oh, the cooker himself.

My wife, Laura.

Laura, that's my nickname for him.

My wife, Laura, and I were watching an episode of TV where one character said they like raisins.

Then the other character said with disgust, of course you like raisins.

That's when I said, who doesn't like raisins?

My wife insists it's weird that I don't know most people think raisins are gross.

She says everyone dislikes raisins and they are trash food.

I say that's not true.

Please compel her to admit raisins are delicious or at least not universally disliked.

P.S.

We also have a great story about when she received an aggressive amount of raisins as a kid and distributed them in a funny way.

Now, I naturally asked Brian to get Laura's permission to share that story.

I have not yet heard back from Brian.

Let me double check.

This was days ago now, so I don't know what's going on with you, Brian.

I'm trying to help you out here.

Even when Brian...

submits that story, I will happily read it on a future episode or later in this episode if Brian gets back to me sooner.

But in the meantime, question for you.

I'm going to go to Jennifer Marmor first and foremost.

Jesse Thorne's clicking on his clicky keyboard.

Jennifer Marmor, raisins, gross or no?

Gross.

Right.

So gross to me personally.

No, no.

This is what we're trying to decide.

I know.

Universally gross, but subjectively gross.

I know, but I know for a fact they're not universally gross because I had a conversation with another parent at my son's school the other day.

He goes to a Jewish school.

We get hala every week

through the school.

It's a whole thing.

And the other parent had said, like, oh yeah, we're getting it this year.

Gotta go with the raisins.

And my immediate reaction was, oh, no, no, no, no, no.

Right.

No, I mean, we go with plate, not for me.

Raisins aren't for me.

And he's like, oh, I love the raisins.

And I felt bad for

being so aggressive about how much I can't stand raisins.

I don't think you should feel bad about anything.

People like what they like, and raisins are, well, let me ask you, Jesse Thornton, gross or no?

I don't think they're gross.

I don't like them.

Would you ever use them?

I think they are.

Jennifer, you're going to have to bleep this, but I think they're a bullshit addition to baked goods.

Me too.

Put real candy in there.

Yeah.

Right.

But besides that, I have no problem with them.

I don't feed them to my children because

I, again, I would rather just give them real candy if I'm going to give them candy.

I don't think the distinction between

fructose and other sugars is significant enough that I should give them raisins.

So, or the modest amount of fiber that's in them is significant enough that I should give them raisins instead of just once in a while giving them some smarties or whatever.

Right.

Yeah, this episode of Judge John Hodgman really goes out to the kids, to all those Judge John Hodgman kid listeners out there.

I'm intending to make your day.

I am intending to make your day because not only have I already talked about nose picking, but I got a message for your parents.

Don't give your kids raisins.

And here's the thing.

Remember how I talked about nose picking and how great it was?

It's just part of life.

You don't want to damage your nose chasing that great nose pick, but every now and then, great nose pick is a great thing.

Such a great thing that it needs no simulation.

You don't need a simulated nose pick.

And I tell you what, I don't need a tiny little red box of raisins to open up and then shove my finger in there to pull out nature's boogers.

That's gross.

That's even before I get it into my mouth.

Just the feeling.

That feeling.

No, leave it in.

Thank you.

Nature's boogers.

Yeah.

It's good.

Well, it's good.

It's not even, it's just the feeling of that little box.

Sometimes you would get them at halloween what an offense i'd rather get an eraser yeah i'd rather get a bag of rocks like charlie brown than a little a little box of red a little red box of raisins that's just the width of your finger do you really have to like shove it in there and dig out these things and for what a raisin that's what you get at the end of it uh-uh

Now look, Brian, I love that you love raisins.

Everyone should like what they like.

And I'll say this.

I will never, ever, ever, ever eat a cinnamon raisin bagel.

I don't like those.

I think they're gross.

But I will say that if you, a raisin in chala may be the best form that exists of a raisin because there is a rehydration that occurs.

They're no longer just dry and chalky, disgusting little rabbit turds.

Something happens when they're baked into something.

They plump up.

This is not making it sound less gross, but I'm doing the best I can for raisin lovers right now.

And in a fruitcake, you know, I get it.

There's a certain

a raisin can really come alive in a, in a, in a, in a fruitcake, in a classic fruitcake.

Also, I don't, I don't, I don't hate a sultana.

I don't hate a sultana.

Maybe a golden raisin is okay, but no, no, no one wants anything.

I don't want any, I don't want to eat raisins anywhere near me.

I don't want them in my trail mix.

I don't want them anywhere near me.

I think they're gross.

I lived to be this life.

I lived to be this age, tolerating them.

And I'm saying from now on, no, this far, no further raisins.

But Brian, if you like them that's great but i think that you need to appreciate that in the cross-section of these three podcasting professionals it is well known that most people dislike raisins they're not top snacks around there

so now your eyes are opened you are in a something of a of a minority

of raisin lovers in this world, and you should enjoy being part of that community.

That's great for you.

But I'm glad that you now know.

And I'm surprised that it did not come out in any premarital counseling that you went through with your wife, but raisins are gross, most people think.

Judge Hodgman, you may remember the clicking sounds of my mechanical keyboard.

Love them.

At the beginning of our answering of this question.

I posted on Twitter, how do you feel about raisins?

Oh, a Twitter poll?

The options were love them, like them, dislike them, or they are garbage food.

Right.

What percentage of my Twitter followers do you think

like raisins?

That is, chose either love them or like them?

17%.

The answer is 72%.

Whoa, what?

72% either love or like raisins.

17% love them.

55%

like them.

Nearly 14% dislike them.

Wait a minute.

17%

love them?

Yep.

55%

like them.

Wow.

That was pretty good on the 17%, though.

That was truly just a guess on love.

But I said like or like them.

I know, I know.

I'm just, okay.

John, that's just a coincidence.

That's not doing a good job.

50% like them.

55% like them, and 18% now love them with 253 votes in.

And then it's a total of about 26% who dislike them.

Here's what I'm going to say.

I believe in the voting.

And by the way, if you're at home listening, I'm rounding and people are voting right now, so it's changing very slightly.

So don't try and add those numbers up together.

Just get the general gist, which is that about three quarters of people either like or love raisins.

If you're still in line, don't leave yet.

They have to let you vote.

They have to let you vote.

Yeah, if you're listening at home, please, I beg of you.

You don't have to show ID.

This Twitter poll that Jesse did now happened two weeks ago.

If you're listening at home, I want you to get it going right now.

Go on there and just flood his at mentions with raisin talk.

If you're going to email me about lint filter versus lint screen, you owe it to yourself to bother Jesse about raisins on Twitter.

Here's the thing I'm going to say about this poll: I believe in polls.

There have been some failures in the polls lately.

Again, we're not data journalists.

We're not data journalists.

In my heart,

I believe in the 18% or whatever it is who say they love raisins.

In my heart, I believe in the 26% of the people who say they don't like them and they're garbage food.

That 55% of people who say they like them,

I think they're just dealing with the trauma of being forced to eat raisins as kids and they don't want to admit that their parents were bad.

I think that that's, I don't believe them for a second.

If you look in your hearts, raisin likers,

you know what you want to say.

You just don't want to admit it.

They're bad.

They're gross.

But you know what?

I guess, Brian, in Boston, there are a lot of people out there for you to get to know,

however large your community is.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but at least you have a lot of fellow raisin lovers out there that you can talk to.

One of the most striking images of my childhood is raisin-related.

My mother was a docent at the Mexican Museum in San Francisco.

And I believe one of the pieces in the permanent collection there, certainly one that hung for a long time that I saw often, was

a famous print by Esther Hernandez, Chicana artist,

that replaces the sun-made raisin box logo, you know, the

sort of woman holding a basket of raisins with a big red hat on in front of a big yellow sun.

Yeah.

with a skeleton holding the basket of raisins and sun made with sun mad

as part of the protest movement against the treatment of farm workers who picked grapes in California.

Yeah, of course.

And it is one of the most striking images.

And I can't look at a box of raisins without thinking of the, without thinking of the skeleton that Esther Hernandez created.

So there you go.

Let's take a quick break to hear from this week's partner.

We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org/slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

Did you know that most of the dishes served at Tom Clicchio's craft restaurant are made in, made in pots and pans?

It's true.

The brace short ribs, made in, made in.

The Rohan Duck Riders of Rohan, made in, made in.

That heritage pork chop that you love so much, you got it.

It was made in, made in.

But made in isn't just for professional chefs.

It's for home cooks too.

And even some of your favorite celebratory dishes can be amplified with made-in cookware.

It's the stuff that professional chefs use, but because it is sold directly to you, it's a lot more affordable than some of the other high-end brands.

We're both big fans of the carbon steel.

I have a little

carbon steel skillet that my mother-in-law loves to use because cast iron is too heavy for her, but she wants that non-stick.

And I know that she can, you know, she can heat that thing up hot if she wants to use it hot.

She can use it to braise if she wants to use it to braise.

It's an immensely useful piece of kitchen toolery.

And it will last a long time.

And whether it's griddles or pots and pans or knives or glassware or tableware, I mean, you know, Jesse, I'm sad to be leaving Maine soon, but I am very, very happy to be getting back.

to my beloved made-in entree bowls.

All of it is incredibly solid, beautiful, functional, and and as you point out, a lot more affordable because they sell it directly to you.

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For full details, visit madeincookwear.com.

That's m-a-d-e-i-n cookware.com.

Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're clearing the docket.

And,

John,

this is a case that you put on the docket.

I personally selected it.

And this is a case from December 13th, 2011.

Yeah.

I went back deep into the mailbag for a segment I call Justice Delayed, Justice Supplied Eventually.

And

it's one I've been thinking about for almost a full decade, I guess.

And I am finally ready to rule on this important case.

It comes from Amy in San Francisco, or at least Amy who lived in San Francisco 10 years ago.

As a native San Franciscan, I can tell you that 3% of the San Franciscans who lived there 10 years ago still live in San Francisco.

Amy, wherever you are,

let me know and tell me where Teresa is, too.

Please help my ex-boyfriend/slash current neighbor slash best friend Charles and me settle a long-standing debate.

I was raised in Rochester, New York.

He comes from Cleveland.

Three years ago, Charles made a dismissive comment insinuating that my Lake Ontario was the smallest of the Great Lakes.

I corrected him as I had always been told that Cleveland's Lake Erie was the runt of the Lacoustream litter.

Amy, you're getting a standing ovation from Judge John Hodgman for using the adjectival form of lake Laku Stream.

By virtue of its shallowness.

Shallowness.

We wagered $1 on the outcome.

Which is the least great lake?

Well,

Amy, Charles, I don't know if you are still neighbors or even friends, but I guess you're still ex-partners.

I'm sorry that it took me 10 years to get around to this.

But here we are, finally, settling it.

If you heard my typing, I went to an inflation calculator.

That same dollar is now worth $1.22.

I'm glad you looked that up, Jesse, because I am going to award one of you $1.22.

But before that, Jesse, you know what time it is.

It's time for a double Great Lakes Beach Report.

Oh, my gosh.

My goodness.

Jesse, you can take a walk around the block or you can listen to this if you want.

Ontario versus Erie, which lake is least great?

Let's compare.

Lake Ontario, traditionally known as the smallest of the greats with the surface area of a

mere 7,340 square miles, as Amy points out, it nonetheless beats Erie in depth several times over.

Or as Amy put it in her letter, Ontario could contain the volume of three Lake Erie's.

and still have room for a couple of finger lakes.

She also says, quote, I won't even address the issue of water residence time, as I believe I have made my point, end quote, Mike Drop.

All right, let's talk about it.

Carved out of soft Silurian Age rocks in the last ice age, Lake Ontario's shores shelter not only Rochester, New York, Amy's hometown, but of course, Toronto, Canada, queen of the golden horseshoe.

Over a quarter of Canada's population live within the Lake Ontario watershed.

Over a quarter.

That's 15 Canadians.

And while Lake Ontario is small by surface area, it reaches far.

For it is the lake effect snow of Lake Ontario that blankets the Tughill Plateau of northern New York.

Tug Hill Plateau being famous for being one of the most snowed upon places in North America, including the 1997 record for snowfall in New York State upon the Tughill town of Montague.

24 hours of snowfall, how deep was it?

6.4 feet in 24 hours of snow.

The snow does get so deep on the Tughill Plateau that many winter camps are built there with a second front door leading to the second story of the house.

They have two front doors, so when the snow gets too deep, you go in the top one.

But remember, no matter what the locals say, it's not a plateau.

It's technically a cuesta.

Look it up.

But you're not here to hear about weak Silurian Age rocks and cuestas.

What about those incredible Ontarian beaches?

Fans of the movie Resident Evil Afterlife flock, I presume, to Sandbanks Provincial Park near Picton, Ontario, for that is where that particular 2010 entry into the Resident Evil franchise was filmed.

Sandbanks offers not only some of the best sandy beaches in the province, but also the largest Baymouth Barrier dune formations in the world, which is a thing, I guess.

But if you want the cool stuff, head to the islands, specifically the Toronto Islands, a chain of islands nestled just off the shore of TDOT, aka the 6, aka Hollywood North, aka home of the place where I get no-name brand groceries, aka Toronto.

There on Toronto Island, you'll find Hanlon's Point, the only legal clothing optional beach in Canada outside of British Columbia.

There are only two of them.

One of them's right there in Lake Ontario.

Hanlon's Point was also the site of the city's first gay pride celebration in 1971.

Facing southwest from the mainland, the water is welcoming and clear as are the crowds, welcoming men, women, none of the above, and families alike.

Although, there is a movement to make a portion of the beach nude mandatory because too many clothed people have been hanging around the clothing optional beach.

Knock it off, you clothed creeks.

Get naked and have fun.

By the way, Jesse, you know what they have on Wards Island?

That's just a few hops away on the Toronto Island chain?

I don't know.

Toronto Island Park Disc Golf Course.

Imagine taking a ferry to froth.

It's a world-class 18-hole disc golf course located there, set on the western side of Wards Island.

The course, quote, offers a picturesque view of the Toronto skyline and was one of 12-time PDGA World Champion Ken Climo's favorite courses.

Are you tired of regional class fralthing?

World-class fralthing awaits you on Lake Ontario, but please note, clothing is required on the course.

I'll be honest with you, Jesse, the U.S.

side of Lake Ontario, it's kind of a bust.

Not a lot of fun going on there.

You got like Southwick Beach State Park.

So this one used to have a lot of attractions and a roller coaster was known known as the Coney Island of Northern New York, but that all ended.

And now it's just a general state park offering swimming camping fishing.

And a sandy beach, but watch out.

Troy B gave this state park only one star on Google.

Do you know why?

One star review on Google.

Do you know why?

I don't know, John.

Three words, too many explosions.

Don't know what that means.

But what about Lake Erie, Cleveland's own Lake Erie, third largest metro area in the Great Lakes after Chicago and Detroit?

Plus, Lake Erie, the shores of Lake Erie, is the home of Toledo, where I once got trapped in an elevator, and to which I will never return.

Lake Erie is the shallowest of the Great Lakes, 210 feet deep at its deepest.

That means it's first to warm up, sometimes to 85 degrees, and also first to freeze.

Most of its beach time action traditionally has been in wintertime, including ice fishing, ice boating, and literally driving to Canada across the frozen lake in cars that didn't have doors or roofs on them in case they fell through the ice so that people could escape.

Don't do this.

Certainly not now because I don't think it freezes over that much.

Certainly not then either.

While it is smallest by volume and also younger than Lake Ontario, and yes, Amy, you're right, it has the shortest average water residence time of any of the Great Lakes, fully replacing its full volume in water every 2.6 years.

It nonetheless boasts, A, the scariest names of any of the lakes, Erie,

as well as a very scary thing, a lake monster.

1990 reports flooded in, I guess there were five of them, of people seeing a large creature moving in the water about a thousand feet from their boat, described as black in color and about 35 feet long, with a snake-like head, and it moved as fast as a boat.

There is not only a lake monster in Lake Erie, but a hockey team named for this lake monster.

It's a minor league hockey team.

Good luck, Cleveland monsters.

Get back to me when you're extinct.

But besides monster hunter, what else is there to do?

Once again, head to the islands.

In Lake Erie, you have Kelly's Island,

which offers beach lounging, hiking, biking, and viewing the deep glacial grooves.

Pelley Island, home to a unique ecosystem with plants rarely found in Canada, such as wild hyacinth.

and yellow horse gention.

Plus two endangered species you can spot there on Peli Island, the Blue Racer and the Lake Erie water snake.

There are only 12,000 left in the world.

Go see them.

And then of course, South Bass Island, featuring the island village of the incredibly named town Put-in Bay, Ohio.

So-called Key West of the North.

It's a village located on South Bass Island.

in Ottawa County, Ohio, 35 miles east of Toledo.

But even so, check it out.

You can go there and go fishing.

You can go ice fishing.

You can go boating.

You can rent golf carts because they don't really have cars there.

You can go nightclubbing at the green room at Mr.

Ed's or poolside partying at the Commodore Resort, home of Ohio's only swim-up bar?

I'm going to say yes.

But its beach is garbage, just mud.

It looks terrible.

Fear not, eerie Lakeians.

You're just a 20-minute ferry ride.

from Cedar Point Beach.

Cedar Point Beach, a mile-long beach for swimming, jet skiing, parasailing, or just relaxing.

Says reviewer Dave Brown on Google, three stars.

It looks like dirt, but it's really soft sand and clean.

But this is not just the coast, everybody.

Jesse Thorne, this coast of Lake Erie, do you know what it's called?

I don't know, John.

America's Roller Coast.

Because of course you know that Cedar Point is also the roller coaster capital of North America.

Huge amusement park, home to 17 of some of the most highest ranked roller coasters in the world, including the all-wooden Blue Streak, built in 1964, and the latest Steel Vengeance, the tallest and fastest hybrid wooden steel roller coaster in the world when it opened in 2018, topping the list of many roller coaster enthusiast faves.

But then when you're done with the thrills, return by ferry to Put-in Bay, where you may reflect quietly within Crystal Cave, the world's largest walk-through celestite geode.

Discovered in 1887 and now on the grounds of the Heinemann Winery, the crystal cave is covered throughout with extremely large tabular crystals identified as celestine, which, as you know, is a form of strontium sulfite.

The original cave was much smaller, but it's been enlarged because much of the celestine was mined in the past for the manufacturing of what?

Red fireworks that produced the color red in pyrotechnics.

But that's all over now.

Take heart, Troy B.

On Lake Erie beaches at least, there are no explosions.

So there you go, Jesse Thorne.

Lake Ontario versus Lake Erie.

Which of these two lakes is least great?

Well, I think both lakes and their beaches have a lot to offer, a lot more than I expected.

Myself, I think, sounds like Lake Erie is a little bit more wild, fun.

Lake Ontario seems a little bit cooler.

But that's not what we're here to decide, which is bigger.

Do we judge by surface area or by depth?

Now, when I said that the Lake Huron-Lake Michigan lake system, because they are hydrologically speaking the same lake, is the largest of the Great Lakes when you combine them, many people were very angry at me because they pointed out that Lake Superior, which is the largest by surface area, is also the largest by volume and dwarfs them both.

And I never really thought about the volume issue.

And here it is, 10 years after it was brought to my very inbox.

Perhaps my obsession has been growing ever since this December 2011 letter from Amy

disputing with her friend Charles over this issue.

Is it surface area or is it depth?

Here at the Judge John Hodgman podcast,

I think that we try to plumb the surface and get to the depths of a conflict.

And therefore, I must value depth over surface area.

Lake Ontario, you have been maligned.

You are the smallest by surface area, but you are so substantially deeper than Lake Erie that you are indeed greater.

And I apologize to Charles and all Clevelanders and their monsters, but Lake Erie,

that little shallowy, as I like to call it,

is the least great lake.

Amy, you get $1.22.

This concludes your Great Lake Speech Report.

Only one more to go, Jesse.

I got to find a case that pertains to Lake Superior, and then this is all over.

After the break, we'll be back with more Judge John Hodgman.

And kids, stick around, because we're going to be talking about farts.

It's Judge John Hodgman, the alpha of the Lacoustream litter.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened, and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Here is a case from Paige in Ohio.

My wife insists that I need to apologize for passing gas anytime she can hear it.

I have no problem apologizing if she or someone else is in the same room as me, but I think it's unfair to make me apologize if I'm alone in another room, especially the bathroom.

My wife says my flatulence is very gross

and louder than usual.

And if she can hear it in the next room, I need to apologize.

Remember how I said a few weeks weeks ago that we were on the boardwalk in Ocean City, New Jersey, and our daughter pointed at a t-shirt for sale that said farter of the year.

Yeah, I remember that.

She was suggesting that the t-shirt might be suitable for you.

Yeah.

Her father.

Yeah.

And she said this to her mother, my wife, who's also a whole human being in her own right.

Not to me, to my wife.

She said, we should get that for dad.

And you know what my wife said?

What did she say?

You're right.

Wow.

She confirmed it.

I am farter of the year.

I didn't know that these two thought I was farter of the year, but it made me really thoughtful about my farting.

And I realize now that

sometimes I fart loud.

I get it.

Family, Hodgman family, I apologize.

I can't control it.

And I also know that it's impossible that they cannot hear me.

They have to be able to hear me in the bathroom.

They have to.

I mean, we all live, you know, we live in a, we live in a, in an apartment in Brooklyn, and we each have little individual cells in which we sleep, but mostly it's just one big room, kitchen, living room.

You've been there.

It's a lovely apartment.

I love it.

It's a great apartment for two adults and two small children.

And it's a great apartment for two adults, but it is not a great apartment for four effective human adults to live in together.

It's a little bit close.

And you can hear, like, I can, when I, when I'm in the bathroom, like, I can hear our son watching Parks and Recreation.

You know what I'm saying?

And I'm as far away from that TV as I can get.

And he's not blasting it.

So when I'm blasting it, I know they can hear it.

I know they can hear it.

And it's really upsetting to me.

The only time that I feel comfortable farting now in my house since the farter of the year incident is when, and I'm sorry, love of my life,

when I can hear through the bathroom door that my wife, who is a whole human being in her own right, is snoring loudly, which she does, so do I, then I can fart to my heart's content.

Now,

to their credit, this has clearly been going on for years.

And only because I overheard this farter of the year t-shirt comment did it become clear to me that they had known this,

I mean, for our daughter, her whole life.

It's really embarrassing.

It's really humiliating, and I apologize.

I promise that I will endeavor to only fart when you snore,

people in my house.

But in the meantime, do I have anything to apologize for?

It's got to happen.

What am I going to do?

I mean, I will say, pardon me.

I don't fart in front of other people.

I take that business elsewhere.

I've never gotten comfortable farting in front of, you know, even the person in my life who's closest to me.

I don't just sit around farting in the house, and I never would.

And if something happened where I

couldn't control it, I would say, oh my God, that's so embarrassing.

I'm sorry.

But I believe that there is a deal that happens when we close the bathroom door.

And I believe that it's a deal that our family has honored for these many years, even though I know now that I can hear them and they can hear me, which is that we pretend that we can't hear each other.

You know, there's a book called Everybody Poops

by a great author and illustrator, Shinta Cho.

It's been out for years and years and years.

And there's also a book called The Gas We Pass, The Story of Farts by the same author.

And these are things that happen.

And

we

should forgive each other, our loved ones, and ourselves.

I'm not happy about the volume of my farts.

You know what I mean?

Because it's not surface area that you measure with farts.

It's volume.

And I apologize, but...

To Paige in Ohio, maybe even Toledo, Ohio,

you deserve the illusion of privacy when you go into your into your bathroom.

And Paige's wife in Ohio, if you hear Paige farting, think of something else.

That's her business in there, not yours.

She doesn't need to apologize to you or to the heir, no matter how badly she's stunk it up.

Am I right or am I wrong, Jesse?

Yeah, I mean, I question your premise that you can't control your farts.

I think we have a lot more fart control than you're suggesting.

But, and I do believe in my heart that were I to fart so loud in another room

that someone I care about could hear it through the walls,

I would apologize

or excuse myself.

Well, however, I also agree.

That's what I would say.

Excuse

me.

I also say excuse me because Everybody Poops is by Taro Gomi,

not Shinta Cho.

Shinta Cho did write The Guys We Pass, so I apologize for that.

Don't write me letters, but go on, Jesse.

However,

I can't agree with you enough about

the suspension of disbelief, the veil of honor that is that door jam.

that stands between the bathroom and the rest of the home.

Right.

Whatever may escape in the concrete world dissipates in the world of the mind.

And that is the very basis of having intimate family relationships within the home.

Because otherwise we are nothing more than fart and poop bags.

And simply maintaining familial love would be a challenge.

Yeah.

We simply block.

all activities in that room out.

And, you know, the same applies

to stink left behind.

Yeah.

If there's stink in there, you're the one that went in there.

It's your job to pretend it doesn't exist or address it so that you can pretend it doesn't exist.

The Veil of Honor, I believe we have a title for this episode, unless you think of something better, Jennifer.

Always, always picks great titles, Jennifer Marmor does.

So it's up to you, of course.

But please respect the Veil of Honor, even in Toledo.

Would you like to read this letter, John?

Yeah, we got a letter.

So, you know, we were talking about fancy ducks the other day.

What a delightful time we had talking about fancy ducks.

I just yeah, I actually was listening to that episode in the car.

Yeah.

Just a little quality check.

You know, you got to air check once in a while.

Sure, exactly.

My kids were in the car.

They desperately needed to see these ducks and geese.

So I pulled up the Judge John Hodgman Instagram at a stoplight.

Yeah.

That was the level of priority.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was what they call a driveway moment.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

If you haven't checked out these, the fanciest ducks and the fanciest geese on the Judge John Hodgman Instagram account, get the,

get your ducks in a row and go over there, instagram.com slash judgejohnhodgman.

But one listener wrote in, talked to us about a very special fancy duck.

Hannah wrote one, and I quote now, listener Hannah Hannah says, quote, one type of fancy duck that we did not mention is the crested duck.

This breed features a fluffy mop of feathers on top of its head, and it has been a popular pet since the 17th century.

But the crested duck is a challenging breed.

The crest is a result of a genetic skull mutation, which often includes

what's termed a fat body that can put pressure on the duck's brain and cause neurological issues.

And depending on the size of the crest, these ducks can end up with a lifetime of problems, she says, including seizures, blindness, deafness, motor function issues, low weight, and a condition called wet feather, which is when the duck cannot preen properly and stay waterproof.

And I looked this up and it's absolutely true.

And certain crested ducks, if they get knocked over, they can't get back up again because they have neurological issues because of this pressure on their brain and neck that is caused by the crest crest itself.

Hannah continues, I was unaware of these issues when I got my white-crested duckling named Pippi.

Though Pippi had some close calls as a baby duck and is now blind and deaf on one side, she is nonetheless happily living her best ducky life.

And here are some pictures.

And we will put these pictures of Pippi up on the Instagram.

And this is a very, a very beautiful rough of feathers atop Pippi's head.

And a very beautiful duck crest or no.

Would you not agree, Jesse?

I agree entirely.

And as someone with neurological issues myself,

I sympathize with Pippi's situation.

I hope she doesn't suffer from duck migraine.

So,

I agree, but Pippi has a really nice little, looks like a little autumnal leaf

in her crest, and it's very dashing.

Yeah,

you got to love it

when an otherwise dignified animal has a leaf attached to their head, they don't know.

Happens to my dog sometimes.

It's great.

That's fantastic.

Hannah continues, I write to caution any would-be duck owners to avoid purchasing a duck with a crest.

If you want to give a crested duck a home, the best way to do this is to adopt an adult duck from a local farm animal or waterfall rescue.

Thank you very much, Hannah.

And for those of you who are thinking of adopting ducks as pets, maybe watching videos of ducks is fine, but if you're really going to just adopt a duck as a pet, I've always wanted to have a duck as a pet, and I've never done it.

But according to eFowl.com, the top four ducks for pets are pecan ducks, calm, sociable, very adaptable, unable to fly, easy to purchase, good layer.

Cons, unexciting coloration, can be loud.

Rouen ducks, beautiful feather coloration, calm, sociable, too large to fly.

Cons, they're very heavy, can have a cumbersome stature.

Cayuga ducks.

Pros, iridescent plumage, great stature, very quiet.

Cayuga cons

can be harder to find.

And of course, for, I don't know why this is not number one, buff ducks.

Come on, they're buff.

I mean, they're not just incredibly jacked and muscular.

They also have a beautiful golden buff plumage.

And the only cons is they're too popular.

But I'll tell you what, Jesse Thornton.

My mom, who is no longer alive, always wanted to get a small flock for her home in western Massachusetts

of what she called upright walking ducks,

which are, which are actually called Indian runner ducks.

And you'll understand when I put this, Jesse, can you see them?

Yeah.

They're real long ducks.

They're really long ducks and they stand right up.

Yeah, they look like meerkats.

Yeah, they're like meerkats.

And guess what?

They don't waddle.

They run.

They will follow you around the house because they love you.

And here's the best.

Here's the best part.

Only the females quack.

The Drakes,

according to Wikipedia, are limited to a hoarse whisper.

Hello.

That's what my duck is going to say to me when I wake up in the morning.

He's following me around the house.

Hello, John.

Can you hear me?

I am a runner duck.

Or else.

It can only mean one thing.

That's when drakes are limited to a hoarse whisper.

Oh,

I see what you did.

Hey, everybody.

I really want to get some upright ducks.

But you know what?

I can't keep a bunch of upright ducks in Brooklyn or in Maine.

You got to have a farm.

You got to have a pond.

Be a responsible pet owner and don't just grab a bunch of animals that you don't know how to take care of.

There are videos of these animals.

Go watch some Indian runner ducks run.

Oh, they're so much fun.

Someday, someday I'll have them.

But for now, I remain purely unducked.

And also get yourself a responsible duck guy if you can investigate buying a duck.

Well, especially for those buff ducks.

Yeah.

You got to have a professional buff the ducks once you put on the carnubo wax.

Well,

I don't know how much I feel about how I feel about this, eFoul.com, because they are connecting you with responsible duck people,

it would seem.

But their primary goal is how can you up your influencer Instagram numbers by showing off chickens?

So

I'm not sure how I feel about this website.

You can check it out, but this is not an endorsement.

I think their recommendations of top four pet ducks are pretty good, but they left off Indian Runner Duck.

That's my complaint for now.

That's all I got for you.

The dockets clear.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Our editor is Valerie Moffat.

Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

We're on Instagram at JudgeJohnHodgman, where you can see some of these very long ducks.

Make sure to hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJ H.

O, and check out the Maximum Fun subreddit.

That is at maximumfun.reddit.com.

You know,

we got a new animal show on Maximum Fun, a great show that Judge Sean Hodgman listeners might enjoy.

Maybe they'll do a duck episode.

What's it called?

Can I pet your duck?

It's called Just the Zoo of Us.

Oh.

It is an animal rating program.

It's appropriate for families.

Yep.

It's appropriate for families.

My children really enjoy it a lot because they like to learn about animals and then find out how they rate compared to other animals.

Will they find an all-time best animal?

Well,

that was something we did in like the first 18 months of Jordan Jesse Goh.

Oh, okay.

What was your all-time best animal on JJ Goh?

Monkey.

Yeah, it's hard to beat monkey.

Yeah.

Anyway, check out Just the Zoo of Us and submit your Judge John Hodgman cases at maximumfun.org/slash JJ H.O.

or email hodgman at maximumfun.org.

We love to get your cases.

Maximumfund.org slash JJ H.

O.

We'll talk to you next time on the judge john hodgman podcast

hey everybody a special secret uh post credit sequence here i promised you i would tell you what the brand of this chalk coat was and i'm trying to take it off while also talking to you and now oh now i got a cramp taking this thing off i hope this is worth it a legitimate cramp jennifer marmer and now it's stuck on my chair okay

universal overall of chicago made in the usa union made sanferized, 100% cotton, and I really like it a lot.

I found it on Etsy.

I bet you, I think they have some more sizes too.

You can go check it out if you want.

Universal Overall.

If you know anything about that company in Chicago, the history of that company, let me know because I really like this chore coat.

Okay, that's it.

Talk to you next time in Judge 100 Pockets.

MaximumFun.org.

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