Citation For Glittering

Gene, Gene, Gene, it's me, Judge John Hodgman.

Gene, thank you so much for guest bailiffing today.

Of course, thank you for asking me.

But I need to give you some background on what is about to happen on the show.

Okay.

Because this will be.

This has never happened before.

This is a previously on Judge John Hodgman segment.

Okay.

So today we're hearing a case between a person named Rudy

and his wife, who is a whole human being in her own right, Mary,

about glitter.

But you have to know that Rudy has been on the show before.

Oh.

Yeah.

He appeared some weeks ago in verdict number 518.

There's an app, Ellette Court, for that.

Rudy was the defendant.

His grown son, Patrick, was taking his dad, Rudy, to court because Rudy would not stop pitching his idea for a new social networking app.

What's the app?

Well, first of all, you have to understand it's called Rudy's Place.

And it's a virtual hangout/slash bar where people could hang out together and then they could buy each other drinks using the app.

Where do the drinks come from?

You've seen, yeah, right?

You see some of the problems already.

Their own, presumably their own refrigerator or liquor cabinet or sarsaparilla or I don't know.

It's more like

a metaphorical drink.

Anyway,

Patrick and his sister Bridget, who had been hearing about this idea for all this time, time and time again, every family gathering,

Rudy would tell Patrick and his sister Bridget and any of their many, many, many cousins by the dozens that this app was a good idea.

They said that it was not a good idea, but Rudy kept saying,

This is my gift to you.

One of you should make this app and become a millionaire.

And Patrick was like, I'm not going to do it.

I just want to be left alone.

I want you to order my dad to stop pitching Rudy's place.

And I did.

And Rudy accepted that.

But then Rudy turned around and revealed that he has a separate dispute with his wife and whole human being, Mary, because she loves glitter and he hates it.

That's what we're going to hear today.

Rudy is a weird dad, but we ruled an interesting dad.

Okay.

He retired last year from a career in energy and environmental policy.

He's now getting a PhD in philosophy of technology.

Ambitious.

With his thesis being technology is evil and bad.

That's why he wants his son to develop this app.

Loves the Minnesota Vikings, hates yachts, fears sharks, but does not hate sharks.

I've also learned recently that he is a Jeopardy champion and absinthe drinker, and he can, quote, source the lyrics of Disco Inferno to an obscure English philosopher, end quote.

That quote comes from one of the...

Several very, very long letters that Rudy and Mary's friends and neighbors have been sending me since the last time Rudy was on this podcast.

You listed a lot of things, but maybe you could have just led with Drinker of Absinthe and then explained everything after that.

Everything else derives from that, I have a feeling.

Gene, these people, Rudy, Mary, Patrick, Bridget, cousins, friends, neighbors,

they're taking over this podcast.

We had to make a segment,

a weekly segment called Rudy's Place to deal with all this Rudy content.

And Jonathan Colton even wrote a theme song.

Do you want to hear the theme song?

I, what?

Okay, yeah.

Well, no, oh, no, because this is my podcast.

It's got my name on it.

The Judge John Hodgman.

It's not Rudy's Place.

This is a Judge John Hodgman podcast.

So we'll play.

So, no, Gene, I'm sorry.

Well, actually, we'll play it at the end of the podcast.

Anyway, that's the background on Rudy, Rudy's Place, Mary, and everything else.

Oh, I forgot to say one thing: they live in an unnamed town on a road called

Big Toad Road.

I don't what do you what do you mean, an unnamed town?

Oh, it's not a name.

Well, I mean, I just

I'm not saying the name of the town, but I know that their their road is called Big Toad Road.

Big Toad Road.

I suppose there was an extremely large toad at some point that someone had to be like, it was so big,

get rid of the other name.

Well, Gene, that's all that's it.

You can start the show whenever you want.

Can I take a nap?

Yeah, let's take a little break.

All right.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm guest bailiff Gene Gray, sitting in for Jesse Thorne.

This week, citation for glittering.

Rudy can't stand glitter.

He says that Mary keeps bringing it into the house and would like her to stop.

Mary says that Rudy needs to find a better way to cope.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

As a further preliminary matter, you should know that I have been to Big Toad Road on many occasions.

I can assure you that whatever mental images you and your listeners have conjured up are absolutely accurate.

Guest Bailiff Gene Gray, please swear them in.

Please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or the holy construction of checker cabs in the 70s and 80s that had flip-top stools in the back with no seat belts.

So help me, RBG.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact?

Oh, there's usually a joke.

No, that's it.

That's the joke.

Despite the fact.

I do.

Absolutely.

Wonderful.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Rudy and Mary may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors.

Can either of you guess the source of the quote that I offered you?

I've been to Big Toad Road on many occasions.

Is that a planet from Next Generation?

I've been to Big Toad Road on many occasions, I can assure you.

It's a planet.

It sounds more like a Walt Whitman.

It sounds like more Walt Whitman.

I thought you you guys were going to get this because I was certain that you had been CC'd on this particular letter that was sent to me from one Mark.

Does that name mean anything to you?

I did not see the letter.

No.

Cousin Kathleen's husband.

Yeah, this is a letter dated June 12, 2021.

Mark is the husband to Mary's first cousin, Kathleen, honorary uncle to Patrick and Bridget, your children.

It is a lovely letter in support of the concept of Rudy's place, the app, and very much in support of Rudy personally in a very moving way.

I'll forward you the letter and share it on the show page, but I will also point out that it's been in my inbox for 10 days.

I only just read it this morning because it is 1,423 words long.

I'm touched.

1,423 words.

Mark sent a letter to me.

I then received a letter from Kathleen, Mark's wife, in support of Mary,

pointing out that glitter is fun and festive, that Mary is incredibly generous of spirit and she gives cards and gifts adorned with glitter and wonders how Rudy will even keep glitter out of the house when he cannot prevent a simple squirrel infestation.

More on that later.

Kathleen wrote, I quote, In fact, I noticed a parked car yesterday that had a pink glitter steering wheel cover and thought it would be a perfect gift for Mary.

End quote.

That's 27 words.

That is just 27 words from her 702 word long letter.

702.

That's half of Mark's letter.

That's better.

You know, we all grew up with print magazine.

That's a whole page in a print magazine.

So we'll post Kathleen's letter as well.

But I'm issuing on my own behalf a restraining order.

Mark and Kathleen may not write me again.

I don't need this homework.

1,400 words, Mark.

Get your word count down.

So now, let's go to the courtroom, finally.

Finally, get someone some justice here.

Mary, we already know a lot about Rudy.

He's been on the show before.

So let's get to know you a little bit.

You are, it says here,

you were a prosecutor in Manhattan in the 1980s, and you are now a law professor.

Guilty.

Lingo.

And now you teach prosecuting?

In what field?

So,

yeah.

Well, this is kind of the opposite of glitter.

So my day job, my day gig, is a little heavy.

So I work on a lot of violence against women issues.

And so,

you know, intimate partner violence, sexual assault, stuff that's kind of heavy, right?

Not usually at a comedy show.

So I would say that the work is heavy.

The rest of my life.

should have a little bling in it.

All right.

And you noted before we started recording that you have fairy lights behind you, but it's not your fault.

No.

Right.

That is your daughter's former fault.

Well, actually, I like them.

No, now that I think about them, I think I did put them up.

Oh, dear.

Guilty again.

Where did you live in Manhattan in the 1980s?

I couldn't afford to live in Manhattan initially in the 1980s.

So I lived in the Bronx and my parents downstairs after law school.

I had to, you know, it's the usual immigrant experience of my parents.

I lived in the Bronx.

And then my friend was able to, because she worked at a private firm, was able to to find a place in Brooklyn

and offered me a room in it.

And

we shared a room on, it was like 4th and 10th, I think, but it was not the Brooklyn you see today.

But it was a really interesting place.

And now you live up there on Big Toad Road.

Oh, yeah.

Against your will.

No, that's not completely fair.

I want to be fair about this.

I am more adaptable adaptable than Rudy.

So I could live in a lot of places, right?

I can live on Big Toad Road.

I can live in Brooklyn.

I could live in...

What about Long Snake Ave?

Could you live there?

No.

No, you're right.

I'm not that adaptable.

I also say here, speaking of glitter, in big capital letters is told to me, you are not a crafter.

No.

See, I feel like I was unfairly presented.

By well, just that in general, people make assumptions when he kind of goes on about glitter

that either I'm, you know, in head-to-toe go lame with glitter.

By the way, for the record, you are not, and for the record, I am disappointed.

I know.

I do have my RBG descent necklace and earring, matching earrings.

And I was thinking, Judge, that a little lace collar on your, you know, a little something like an RBG thing on your robes might be a little, you know.

So there you go.

I do like a little bling.

Flare, but I'm not a crafter.

I'm so domestically impaired.

Like,

Rudy's the one who would pick up a vacuum.

He's the cook.

He's really very, he brings home the bacon and he fries it up in a pan.

Got it, got it, got it.

So, uh, you're what are you using this glitter for?

I wouldn't have identified my house as a house with glitter in it.

So, what happens, John, is I have 56, I think, first cousins on one side of my family.

And there's a lot of birthdays.

There's a lot of first communions and weddings and back-and-forth thank you cards.

And then there's Christmas.

Right.

Big into Christmas.

And, you know, where we live on Big Toad Road, it's like dark and dreary at four o'clock in the winter.

Sure.

So I think that Christmas and festive occasions, family stuff.

Now, also, they have glitter on wrapping paper now.

So I think I'm like inadvertently bringing in glitter in the house,

but I do like light.

I do like shimmer.

So I don't feel like there's a lot of glitter in our house.

It's incidental.

You're saying it's incidental glimmer.

Yes, thank you.

That's it.

Your honor

exactly captured it.

Thank you.

It's not my job to make your case for you, but your claim would be that you don't bring in more glitter than a normal human being

would track into the house, house, say, after a light glitter sprinkle outside.

Correct.

Yeah, I got you.

It's like part of the weather of being a human as far as you were concerned.

Yes.

Okay, got you.

And just a quick question.

56 first cousins?

Yeah, well, my mother was one of 12 in Ireland.

Right.

And so half of them came here.

Right.

And half of them are home.

And they had to leave, right?

So I do think it was a little bit of a shock to Rudy.

Like, when we joined households, he never realized he needed to budget for events, you know?

Right.

I guess my point is:

I just want to comment on it's kind of astonishing because most people don't,

most people in my world don't come from such large families.

And it's like, how do you find time to write birthday cards, never mind, holiday cards for 56

first cousins at 1,400 words each?

I presume you're writing 1,000, at least 1,400 words per Christmas card, right?

I have really bad handwriting from all of this.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

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rudy

yes now it is your turn we have heard we have heard and gotten to know mary

so now it's time for rudy's place or rudy's peace what's the nature of your complaint we kind of get the idea but restate for the court your specific complaint about the glitter my specific complaint is that glitter, once it gets into the house, it's very hard to remove even with vacuuming.

It tends to sort of secrete itself into the crevices of the carpeting, the upholstery, cracks in the floor, places that it just lays there

until the angle of the lighting is just right as you're walking past and this whole stream of light kind of bursts forth at you.

And what does that light do, Rudy?

It shatters your concentration and disrupts whatever else you're doing in your life.

And if you.

As I understood from your original letter, you'll be walking through the house.

The glitter will reflect a beam of piercing light into your eye.

Yes.

And whatever you were thinking about or doing in that moment has been destroyed.

Yeah.

And you stand there for like 45 minutes, unable to move.

Trapped.

No, what I, well,

until recently, when I've started trying to work on it,

I would mutter something, maybe obscene, about the glitter, and then I would

wet my finger and go after the piece of glitter, because it will stick to a wet finger.

And then if I'm able to get it up, then I'll go put in the garbage.

Why is the wet finger solution not a solution?

Seems like you got it covered.

That's a pretty good glitter life hack, by the way.

It's a remediation, but it's not a prevention.

I want to prevent the disruption in the first place.

The best way I can describe, for people who aren't bothered by glitter,

the best analogy I can draw is it's, to me,

it's the equivalent of a sudden, very high-pitched, piercing noise.

Like if you're walking up your stairs,

thinking about what you're going to do next or thinking about something or other and all of a sudden this sudden, high-pitched, piercing sound just out of nowhere.

Do you have synesthesia?

I don't.

Do you

perceive glitter as noise?

I do not.

I'm bothered by lots of things.

I am easily bothered by annoying distractions.

I think I'm not alone in that.

But yes, I find it very hard to ignore annoying distractions.

So, Mary,

you have already made your case that the amount of glitter is not unusual.

I am not going to inspect your home on Big Toad Road because, frankly,

you and your family have entwined themselves into my life tightly enough as it is.

We do that.

But

you have produced some evidence

that we will share with this court.

Jennifer Marmer, do you want to present the first film, Exhibit A for the defense?

Sure.

Okay, so a flying squirrel fell into my tub that I was going to be.

I was going to pause right there.

Just all sorts of no.

All levels of absolutely not

are involved.

Tell us what we're seeing here.

So I believe this is a flying squirrel that has fallen from the ceiling.

perhaps

somewhere into your bathtub, which I assume someone had run a bath,

getting ready to take a bath, which is even more terrifying.

Um, let the record show that uh Mary is raising her hand.

This was to be her bathtub, um, because you could have been in the bath when this happens.

Um, let the record show that Mary is pointing and snapping her fingers like this.

This is a podcast is an audio medium.

That's all right.

Um, I and as a person who uh also um grew up uh uh

for I spent 43 years in New York City um and has uh in the past year moved to a big-toed road of my very own, uh not the same name, but same feeling.

Um, we

have nature in your life.

We have nature, but we also removed nine flying squirrels from inside of our walls.

Um and just the the scratching and the squirrel fights that were happening inside of the walls was terrifying enough.

So I cannot imagine

what.

I'm sorry.

Mary's still alive, and honestly, I'm impressed.

If one of those flying squirrels had flown into your bathtub while you were in it, it would have been bad news.

It would have been bad news for me, the squirrel, everyone in the neighborhood.

I would have had to set the house on fire.

There's a lot of things that would have happened.

I see there's probably candles and a lot of substances in here that could have been used as Molotov cocktails.

So yeah, sort of where I would have gone.

And I thought she was extremely calm and handled it really well.

Let's listen to her be calmly handling the rest of it.

And Rudy is going to try to get it out and rescue it.

And this guy is trying so hard.

He's hanging on to the

community jets for dear life.

Let the record show that Mary ends her narration before finishing the film saying, why did I ever leave the Bronx?

Is that correct?

Did I hear that correctly, Mary?

Correct.

And for the record, Your Honor, it's a 2019 video, so it was not prepared for this defense.

It's just something you've had on your phone for years.

I shared with every member of my family so they could taunt Ruby.

Yeah, 57 first cousins or whatever.

each got a copy of this for Christmas and with a glitter card saying this cannot happen again.

Yeah, I also want to be very clear that the Molotov cocktails were just to burn the house down.

I would have also tried to save the squirrel with my bare hands

because I have saved many animals from pools before just walking by a pool.

Oh no, gotta save this one.

But

the repercussions and the nightmares would stay with me.

Yeah.

Of what could have been.

Now, let the record show that I know from the other video Mary sent in, Exhibit B for the Defense, which is a little long.

We're not going to go into it, but that Rudy did attempt to save this squirrel, not using his hands, but using two gigantic rubber-made tubs.

It felt like that to me.

How would you describe Rudy's effort, Mary?

Well, it was adorably heroic.

He is an environmentalist.

He is certainly very caring about humans and animals.

He doesn't have the, I have a similar instincts to Gene, where like you react first because you need to protect yourself and

but you don't want to hurt anyone, but you're like, get the hell away from me, heckle, away from me.

And

so Rudy was really very concerned about the death of the squirrel and I was too.

I offered to get a blanket, but sometimes I feel he's more concerned about the animals than about

the people who were also affected by the animals.

So that's a little tension, I would say.

I have to object.

Please.

Sustained.

Thank you, Your Honor.

I just don't think that's the case.

I think my first concern was for Mary and her well-being, and then I wanted to take care of the squirrel.

Unfortunately, it did not work out well for the squirrel.

I think the squirrel was too far gone at that point.

I'm sorry.

Thank you for injecting that note of tragedy into our lighthearted discussion.

I did not

think that was going to happen.

Well, that's tragedy, especially since it's not, none of it is germane to the case.

Mary, what is this flying squirrel?

How did it get there?

And what does this have to do with the glitter case?

So my argument, Your Honor, respectfully, is that you can.

You can have an amazingly long list of everything that annoys you and expect the other person to accommodate all of them.

I think Rudy's list is much longer than mine.

And I would say that what I get annoyed by is more commonly annoyed by other people, like flying squirrels entering your house on more than one occasion and saying, Yes, we should get the pest people.

Even if you think they're a racket, we need to get them.

So that's my argument.

So this is an ongoing problem.

You have squirrels in your house.

Oh, yes.

Yes.

May I interject, Your Honor?

Sustained.

Yes.

Yes.

We have way more than our share of nuisance animal intrusions compared to the average household.

That does go with the location.

But I would say.

Way more than your share.

Yes, we have more than our share.

What is the town?

Does the town allot you a certain number

a certain number of

flying squirrels and giant centipedes every month or something.

But

we don't invite them in,

and

unlike the glitter, we don't invite them in.

And when they are in, we do everything we can to keep them out, to get them out and keep them out.

I think Mary's point is, why are...

Why are you complaining about glitter when there are squirrels in your house and that problem has not been solved?

Would that be fair to say?

Yes, Your Honor.

Thank you.

Judge?

Yes, please.

Would you mind if I asked a couple of questions?

I would love it.

All right.

Rudy, I feel like there are some things that I might

very much relate to you on here as the person in my household who

apparently is the only person who can see things that are out of place

and are glaringly obvious to me.

And I'm like, what is going on here?

But

I also think that I do take it upon myself to make sure that certain things are in place.

Otherwise, I will always be angry, especially after things like the holidays.

Have you ever considered after the holidays, just having someone in to deep clean the house?

Because things get everywhere from months.

There are pine needles that you'll find six months later, and you're like, how could that possibly happen?

Yes, thank you.

Well, I'm not sure about deep cleaning, but regular cleaning, certainly.

For a number of years, when Mary and I were both working outside the house, we did have professional cleaners in regularly.

I just think that there is something just about the mechanics of a piece of glitter and a crevice that it is able to evade.

Many of them are able to evade vacuuming.

Even professional cleaners.

I'm not sure the professional cleaner's vacuum is any more effective than our own vacuum.

Right,

you're saying that standard professional cleaners

can't get all the glitter.

And that is why I suggested actual professional deep cleaners, which is a very different thing, like someone you would hire if you're just moving into a house or out of a house.

What I was going to ask about also, if during the holidays,

if there were, say, things that were, I know that I feel a certain way about glitter as well, but I also like things that reflect light, that bring in shine.

Have you suggested anything else, maybe

metallics or glass or prisms or kaleidoscopes, and suggested and brought these things to Mary in order to solve that problem of the glitter?

A replacement?

Well, once again, I will say yes, but I'll probably be corrected.

But

yes, I have occasionally bought clothing for Mary that has sparkly thread woven through it.

In fact, Mary just bought a pair of sandals or shoes that are sandally shoes that have sequence on them and not glitter.

They don't come off into the house and they're very sparkly.

And I said, those are great.

I like those.

So, yes, I'm certainly...

You complimented your wife one time.

Well, I said that actually just happened this week.

May I also point out that Rudy submitted one single piece of evidence pertaining to the question that you just asked, Gene, about bringing in other

festive and upbeat elements to the home.

I don't need to

go ahead and share my screen again.

Oh, yes, I've seen this.

Yes.

I saw it earlier.

If I'll just scroll down.

Wee!

Is a single Morocca.

One photo of a single Morocca.

Beautiful Morocca.

Yes, this is, quote, an example of festive but non-glittered paraphernalia.

A Moroccan.

It's funny you don't say Maroca a lot.

No, I mean singular.

Not usually.

It feels like it's a little more common to say Moroccas, right?

Because they're usually there too.

There was another one

that

where it came from, whether Mary brought it in or someone else did.

There was one that was coated with gold glitter.

And every time it was shaken,

some portion of the glitter would come off.

And I looked for that.

I know that at some point I put it into a Ziploc bag to try to contain the glitter.

I thought I put it away somewhere.

I looked for it, and I couldn't find it.

So

it's possible that it was accidentally destroyed.

Also, as someone who paints and does craft, there is the option of doing

a top coat of sealant on anything that contains glitter where you

seal the glitter in its own little Han solocarbonite and there it shall stay.

It still shines, but.

Judge, one last

question and a half to Mary.

Mary, I definitely understand that the balance of having these light things in your life

in contrast to your job and what's been your job for years is hugely important to you.

And I think I also just wanted to ask you, I think sometimes we know like we enjoy all these things and we're like, oh.

There's so many other options to do this.

I thought celebrating my first Christmases that I would, as someone who's never really a glitter person I was like yeah but I want like the sparkles and the light and sort of looking for all these other ways that weren't necessarily

the invasive nature of glitter would you be into looking at any of those options

I would with a condition

okay so

I've already, if you notice, the fairy lights are not glitter.

Yeah, they're lovely.

Lovely.

So I feel like I've done that.

Here, you know, you have both crystallized for me during this session what

my stubborn objection is to.

Crystals are very obvious.

Because I am being stubborn, and so is Rudy, okay?

Rudy always chooses things that have another purpose as well.

The Maraca also makes music, right?

Frivolity is about things that are not productive other than the joy.

And that's, I think, where the real tension is.

So, yes, I'm interested in that, but I think that there's feeling like there's a judgment, like it has to have another job as well.

You just want a thing to be a fun thing, and that's it.

It's just fun.

Yes.

Yes.

It makes me laugh.

So I'm willing to

entertain that, but I need to have a little bit more compromise coming on the other side.

Okay.

Rudy, do you think that there's something to what Mary is saying?

Do you have difficulty appreciating things that are just fun and don't have use?

Oh, wow.

Getting deep here.

It's a deep question.

I certainly appreciate lots of things that are just for their own sake,

things that are, you know, artistic or beautiful or what have you that don't have any sort of classically utilitarian function.

But I probably do have a bias against sort of celebratory frivolity items, which just comes from my upbringing.

I was from a very

spartan sort of upbringing.

When you were

lucky to get a flying squirrel in the bathtub on my side,

that was a heyday.

That's what we did for fun when I I was growing up.

And I definitely credit Mary with

making efforts to find non-glittery

forms of entertainment.

I think it's really the third-party glitter is more of the issue.

It comes in.

It's a third-party glitter.

Third-party glitter.

It comes in on cards, it comes in on wrapping paper, and that is not Mary's direct responsibility.

But on the other hand, once it's in the house, what you do with it becomes, you know, it's like, okay, there's a marriage.

She's got 56 cousins.

There's going to be

some glitter bombings.

There is going to be.

Oh my God, you should have.

This past holiday season was

the worst.

Was this what precipitated?

What happened?

It was the second cousin glitter bomb was bad.

The second cousin glitter bomb.

Go on.

What does this second cousin glitter bomb mean to you?

Because to me, it means nothing.

I don't speak your family language please

so it's a second cousin

who sent us a card that when you opened the Christmas card inside the card there was glitter inside the envelope so that when the card came out almost something you see at bat mitzvahs or bar mitzvahs you know on the table and it exploded all over the living room.

I called my cousin.

My sister,

well, she thought, I think she wasn't being mean.

She was being festive.

And I didn't know it was in there.

So I opened the card and the glitter pot exploded.

I called my sister and said, watch out for it.

And she made her daughter open it out on the deck.

Gene,

you're nodding.

You're familiar with this home invasion?

I have seen it.

I have seen people open those.

The only thing I like flying out of any envelope I'm opening is just like cash.

So that would be fun.

But I have seen that.

So this is a card that is designed to kind of.

You're supposed to be like, oh my gosh, how exciting.

It falls out on purpose.

It dirties your house with fun on purpose.

Litters it with fun.

Right.

Yeah.

It's a lot.

I didn't mean to cut off what you were going to say there, though, Gene.

Oh, I was going to say, I think I've opened one at a venue, at an event, and my first thought was like, who's going to clean that up?

Not me.

So that's fine.

That's terrible.

That's terrible.

Next flying squirrel you save, you should send that to her.

Send that to your second cousin.

That's a surprise.

That's fun.

It's fun in the moment, though.

Well, I would say we've identified cards that if we get them from this particular cousin, we will open them on the deck.

So that, I think, now I don't think it's going to be a trend.

Oh, it's totally going to be a trend now.

You think that Mark and Kathleen aren't going to listen to this podcast

and go to all of your cousins in the United States and in Ireland and be like,

send them these glitter bums.

I feel like you're going to put it in just regular mail at this point.

Go get them.

I liked Kathleen's suggestion of sort of an airport style glitter detector at the front door.

That would work.

What do you propose as a solution, Rudy, to protect yourself from these glitterful cards and letters?

I think, again, I give Mary credit, partial credit, because she doesn't intentionally bring glittery stuff into the house, but she will unknowingly bring it in.

She'll buy something and not notice that it has detachable glitter on it.

So she could be a little more conscientious about that.

And as far as the cards and

the wrapping paper and all that,

it's really a question of what you do after it has come in and containing the damage.

So like the card that's obviously got glitter all over it that you open say in the kitchen does not have to be taken into the bedroom

to sit around there for a few days and then taken into the living room to be put up on display

on a shelf.

You know, it can just be quietly disposed of.

Is that what you're doing, Mary?

You're taking glittery cards and rubbing them all over your carpets

on purpose, trying to stab Rudy's eyes.

I like to reread.

I want to reread when someone takes care to say something loving to me.

Yeah.

I like to dwell on it before you just throw them away, right?

And if they're anything like Mark's letters, you probably have to read them over a couple of weeks.

She's not rereading.

It's the first time.

It's a very long card.

That glitter card was four feet tall.

It was a lot of glitter.

They had to get the cards.

I just love to curl up in bed with my glitter card.

Her cousin actually got out of the card, threw the glitter on everyone, relayed the message, then climbed back in the card.

Okay.

So what would you have me order, Rudy, if I were to find in your favor?

No glitter or light in your wife's life ever again?

I don't think that's possible or desirable.

I would say

glitter-free alternatives to the extent possible.

No knowingly bringing glitter items into the house.

And then, most importantly, containing

the spread of glitter from

things that are sent to us.

Understood.

Being conscientious about containing the spread.

And Mary, what would you have me order if I were to rule in your favor?

So the first thing I'd like you to order, Your Honor, is that Rudy undergo hypnosis because he's done it.

Wow.

He's done it before.

He's fascinated by it.

But I think for two things.

You know, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

One would be like so that he gets a little less just distracted, angry, agitated by the glitter.

And then also

that he's.

So that's basically that that's the long way of saying like, deal with it.

Just do it.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

Hypnosis for dealing with it.

No, no, no.

I think she's saying something interesting because it is a different level when you're bothered by things at that level.

Thank you, Gene.

Right.

I'm not saying that I don't have some work to do, Your Honor, but I think you asked me what my ideal ruling would be.

And it would be that he work on that.

I will defer to your wisdom on how I might be a little more sensitive about glitter.

but the second thing that I think is important on the squirrels is that

it's been a long time between the suggestion that we get someone other than Rudy solve the swirl problem, right?

Because Rudy's kind of a handyman type.

He likes to do it himself.

Sure.

And us actually

finally having a pest person coming in, right?

So I think that when the pest people, the other thing, he could either do hypnosis on the pest thing or

not

assume that when the pest people come in next week, everything they do is wrong.

So Rudy is going to get hypnotized to not feel anxious about being taken advantage of by professional service providers.

Control people.

Right.

Rudy, you're going to need to be put under very deep control.

I'm not sure hypnosis is going to.

You'll need something stronger than

some anesthesia, maybe some absinthe, maybe some absinthe.

Actually, that is one of my drinks of choice.

Yeah, I read about it in the letter.

Love those letters.

Mark and Kathleen and Judith.

And

also

Angela.

Thank you for your letter as well.

Friends and family.

of Mary and Rudy.

Okay, I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I am going to go into my snobby lobby,

aka my chambers.

Nice.

I'll be back in a moment to render my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Okay.

Mary, how are you feeling?

How are you feeling about today?

I feel heard, which is good.

Gene, I feel like I felt heard.

I also

feel

that

you all were thinking of some good

sort of compromises.

I'm a little nervous that if there's a ruling that I can't comply with, like just because I do,

I'm not as detailed-oriented as Rudy is, so I feel like the inadvertent and the third-party glitter, I don't know how I'm going to comply with that if that's part of the ruling.

So I'm a little nervous about that.

There is also another suggestion.

There is a larger than normal glitter, which is very easy to pick up.

Doesn't have to be so small.

That might

stop you right there.

No, no, Rudy.

No, you can't, Rudy.

No, you can't.

I'm going to finish my talk with Mary, and then we're going to get to you.

Okay.

All right.

Sorry, I panicked.

That's what you do, Rudy.

That's why we're here, because you panic.

All right, Mary.

I understand how you're feeling.

You know what?

I didn't even have anything else to say to Mary.

I just wanted Rudy to

hold on.

Rudy, how are you feeling?

Is it anxious?

No, I'm not feeling anxious.

I'm feeling like this was a good discussion.

And

I think that there are obviously way more important things in life than glitter or the lack of glitter.

And

I'm confident that the judge is

going to see through that and come up with something that makes sense.

I just want to interject that I don't think larger glitter is really going to be the solution here because it will

glitter has will find its way.

Okay.

Despite how, I mean, it would have to be big, big glitter.

It's pretty big.

But before the judge gets back, I want you to pay attention to something really incredibly important that Mary said at the beginning was that she feels heard.

And I think,

regardless of what the judge comes in and says, I think

sometimes when you're, you know, this deep in a relationship and you're just seeing the problem and you can't even get past like the things of compromise, just the idea that someone else feels seen and completely heard without you being in your own feelings about it is so, so important.

So, whatever happens, take note that she felt the need to say that today.

Okay?

Do it.

Very, okay.

All right.

We'll see what the judge has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment.

Can I offer you a copay?

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So, check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So, let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

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Episode 64.

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And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Please rise as Judge John Hoshman re-enters re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Well,

you know, it's very rare that I reach a decision so quickly and so completely because the verdict is obvious and so clear.

The solution is large glitter as much as possible.

Get it into the house.

Get a large glitter cannon.

You know what I mean?

No, I'm sorry, Mary.

You're smiling.

That was a joke.

Oh.

It's not my order.

It's weird that you would even think that I wasn't joking.

Can you imagine me coming in here and saying, yeah, I think there should be as much large glitter in the house as possible.

That's the solution.

You're actually nodding.

I mean, the thing is,

I can see you both.

Because we are now podcasting via the magic of teleconferencing,

the evil magic of teleconferencing, the curse of teleconferencing.

But I do enjoy seeing your faces because here you are

with a very big smile, framed by fairy lights, Mary, in a bright upstairs bedroom full of natural light.

And there's Rudy below you

in a shirt designed to match the closed drapes, the same color of murky pond water, in a green-tinted room with a creepy ceiling fan behind him, looking like he's in the basement of Captain Nemo's submarine.

Different attitudes.

Yeah.

I think, Rudy, you were the first to even say, not you would be the first to say, you were the first to say to me that

Mary is full of light.

metaphorically and to a degree, literally.

Absolutely.

And I am so happy that the two of you balance each other out.

And

I'm so appreciative that I have no doubt that you appreciate Mary because

you spoke of her so highly in all of your

emails to me, even when you were annotating her emails to me with little notes like off topic.

You would also go to great lengths to explain how important she is in your life.

And that's an understatement.

And I believe that, you know,

I appreciate the fact that she feels heard.

She said it.

I think Gene's note is a good one for all of us to take with our partners, especially as we have all been living in fairly close quarters for a long time.

Oh, boy.

It's taken a toll on all of us.

Make sure that

your partners feel seen and heard, even when their problems might not be as glaringly obvious as a flying squirrel in the bathtub.

But I would say to this, Rudy, I hear you.

I particularly heard you when you jumped in on Gene on this large clitter idea.

Like, I could see you too.

I could see what I felt like was genuine panic.

And I don't think that Mary would be suggesting hypnosis, although I'm still, it's not clear what she was

suggesting the hypnotherapy for, but I don't think she would be suggesting hypnosis if she did not acknowledge to a degree that some of this stuff genuinely is out of your your control and a little traumatizing to you.

I don't know anyone in the world except for Rudy, who has a problem walking across a carpet that has a single piece of glitter in it and then getting stunned in the eye, in the eyes, breaking this train of thought.

I'd never heard of that before.

And I want you to know, I hear you.

And I think, honestly, Mary, I think you need to hear.

Rudy on this one.

Like,

he doesn't want you to forego brightness.

He loves your brightness.

He loves the fun.

He appreciates the glimmer and shine that you bring to his life, presumably to your children's lives, to the many thousands of cousins that you have, etc., etc.

But this is one thing, this one literally very small thing,

glitter.

It is, on the one hand, impossible to get rid of.

That's part of the problem.

Adam Savage, formerly of MythBusters, now have tested.com, and a friend of this show, has referred to glitter as the herpes of the crafting world because once you have it, it's difficult to get rid of, if not impossible.

But with glitter, paradoxically, it's easy to avoid.

Don't get glitter.

Don't get it.

Don't bring it in your home.

If you know your cousin's sending you a glitter bomb, open it outside like your other cousin did.

Use the wisdom wisdom of the cousin crowd.

These are your resources.

I'm not going to go so far as to ban glitter from your home

because

you can't help but get these cards from the glitterati out there.

But I think that Rudy deserves some consideration.

I know that Rudy, from the video that you sent in,

you had suggested that Rudy put that squirrel in the mudroom.

So I know you have a mudroom.

You got to have one on Big Toad Road.

What are you going to do?

You can't be out on Big Toad Road without a mudroom.

I would say

whether it is the mudroom

or another area, maybe it's the kitchen, maybe it's a pure hard surface area,

the glitter stays in that area.

We have spent a year and a half

trying to figure out how to prevent contagion

and having to quarantine parts of our lives and compartmentalize

emotion, not only quarantine our physical bodies, but compartmentalize whole areas of our emotional lives in order to get through this together.

And I order.

Rudy can pick a room in which glitter is allowed and is not allowed to leave.

And I would suggest that it be a hard surface room, like a kitchen, you know, where

it can, but you can't be curling up.

You can't be curling up with a glitter card

in your terry cloth bathrobe

in your bed anymore.

Keep glitter in its place.

And when you go out and buy wrapping paper, don't get stuff with glitter on it.

Look.

When you see that glitter,

look deeply into that glitter and see your reflection in it and be like, no, I'm not the person who's going to bring glitter into this house.

There's a lot of other wrapping paper and there are a lot of other ways to make things bright and shiny.

So that is my ruling.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Dutch John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

All right, we're going to start with Rudy.

How are you feeling about the decision?

I'm a little stunned.

I rarely win discussions like this

in any venue.

So

I think it's a good

ruling.

And

we'll be reasonable in implementing it.

I'm excited.

I'm excited for you moving forward.

And I feel like I'm definitely feeling that you are stunned and you're like, oh, I didn't think it was going to go this way.

No.

Awesome.

Mary, how are you feeling about the decision?

Well,

I feel like I need a little clarification.

So I'm okay with, I would love to have some input into the room and knowing Rudy's and our relationship of over 30 plus years of relationship, we'll find a room.

My problem is we already have glitter on our Christmas ornaments.

So, what am I supposed to do with that?

They're already in the house, they're stored away.

Coming from inside the house.

Well, I think that could easily be done by something like I was saying.

Like, you know, just seal those up.

And it'll even make storing them in containers.

You know, when you take those things out next year, you're like, ugh, it's such a mess in there.

And it doesn't have to be that way.

So, I think it sort of helps everyone.

You keep your ornaments,

you spray spray some acrylic coat on there.

I'm writing this

acrylic spray.

Yeah, acrylic spray your ornaments.

Yeah.

Or, I mean, it's

not very ecologically sound, but you could store the ornaments in Ziploc bags and then also hang them on the tree that way.

And then

I'm so not

a judge.

You are now pushing.

Your ornaments will be all bagged up and you think of me every time you look at them.

But

I think there's a great

compromise and also understanding of, yeah, how we have learned to work with the world.

I'm proud of both of you, and I'm proud of the judge.

Thank you.

I'm proud of you, Gene.

I'm proud of you, Jennifer.

And hey, I just, I want to just say I'm proud of everyone who doesn't celebrate Christmas.

We've had a lot of Christmas talk on this podcast, and I get it.

Not everyone celebrates that.

So I see and hear you as well.

I just didn't want to pull my

Jewish friends into the debate because I have given them glittery Hanukkah stuff.

And I just felt like they have enough to deal with around the holidays.

I didn't want to bring them in, my Muslim friends.

I'm like, no, you got enough to deal with.

I'm just not bringing them into this.

G-E-O-T-G.

You know what I mean?

G-E-O-T-G.

Go easy on the glitter.

Okay.

That's the word.

That's the word from Judge John Hodgman.

It's been so nice to get to know you, your family, your cousins, your kids, and everybody in the world down there at Big Toad Road who knows you.

At the end of this episode, we'll play for the final time, perhaps for now, the theme song to Rudy's Place.

But until then, have fun up there at Big Toad Road, you guys.

Great to get to know you.

Thank you, Jerome.

Thank you, everyone.

Bye.

Another case in the books.

Before we dispense some swift justice, we want to thank Tony Montebon for naming this week's episode Citation for Glittering.

Very clever.

If you would like to name a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, we regularly put out a call for submissions.

Follow us on social media.

I'm on Instagram at geniegrigio.

That's double N-I-E Grigio.

Guess it.

The judge is at John Hodgman.

He's also on Twitter at Hodgman.

Hashtag your judge John Hodgman tweets.

Hashtag JJ H O and check out the maximum fun subreddit to discuss this episode.

Don't talk about me badly.

I'll find you.

And we're on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

Make sure to follow us there for evidence and other fun stuff.

Our amazing producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Yay.

Now, let's get to Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with a quick judgment.

Here's the question.

I'm very involved in this.

Ash says, my wife insists these are deep plates.

I contest that they are shallow bowls.

And then it is a picture of a

deep plate mixed with a shallow bowl.

Gene, what would you say?

Is that a deep plate or a shallow bowl?

Well, this will be on the Instagram at Judge Justice.

Just to let you know, I'll take pictures of all of these.

So we've got this one.

This is a salad bowl.

Okay, wait a minute.

Is this Swift Justice question from you?

No.

Are you secretly Ash?

Well, let me start.

You're showing me your plates and bowls.

This is a plate.

I think we can all.

This is a plate.

Say this is.

This is definitely a plate with a rim, though.

Yes, with a rim.

I like a rimmed plate.

This is the next step.

This is a deep plate.

A deep plate?

This is a deep plate where you put things.

I like to serve like

sometimes curries of sorts or pastas or anything.

This just got a little more sauce.

You can lean a bread on the side.

You're not like my stuff is going to go everywhere.

Hold that up again, Gene.

Yeah, that's a deep plate.

I already say that.

And this

is a salad bowl or kind of a shallow bowl, just a larger,

it's not as high on the sides.

I would say that's a bowl or

an extravagant soup bowl or something with an extravagant soup.

Extravagant soup.

Where you have,

let's say it's some sort of broth

and you have

many pieces of things that you want to put in said broth.

Cream of chicken with diamonds.

It's horrible.

Cream of chicken with sapphires.

That's actually, I just realized that I stole that joke from David Reese, who made it up for our secret project.

So when you see the secret project and you hear the joke about diamonds, you'll know that that's where this joke came from.

Yeah.

So this is a, but I do definitely consider this a bowl and not a deep plate.

And I think the one that is in the picture is closer to a shallow bowl than a deep plate.

I think it's got a higher rim.

Ah, I'm so glad you said that because I was going to say that's a shallow bowl because there's no such thing as a deep plate.

But now I realize there is a deep bowl.

Yes, there is.

But that is definitely a shallow bowl.

But, Gene,

this letter from Judith, another friend of Mary and Rudy's, just came in.

No, it didn't.

I understand, quote, I understand that one of my friends and neighbors, Rudy and Mary, will be on your show soon debating the merits of glitter.

Yeah, it just happened.

I think you should know that environmentalists like me advise against using glitter because it is made from plastic.

In fact, it's a microplastic.

It does not yet have the status of no plastic straws due to them being lodged in the nostrils of sea turtles, but in time it will get there.

Put me in the camp of no no glitter, no straws, and no fun.

Sincerely, Judith, president of Beyond Plastics, seebeyondplastics.org.

That's a valuable message in the show.

And at 98 words, a perfect email.

98 words, everybody.

Replace a lesson from Judith.

Replace your plastic glitter with metal.

Just use shrapnel.

Come on, everybody.

Metal straws, metal glitter.

Let's go.

There we go.

That's it.

That's our show.

Thank you very much, guest bailiff, Jean Gray.

It's always such a pleasure to spend time with you, and I hope to see you in person soon.

Thank you again to Jennifer Marmer.

Thank you again to Rudy and Mary and all their friends.

That is it for us.

We will talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Rudy's Place.

It's a virtual hangout where you go to buy friendsy beers.

Rudy's Place.

No internet, no yachts, no sharks invited, so have no fears.

I'm gonna

ride my horse down Big Toad Road.

I'm gonna

ride my horse down big toad road.

I'm gonna

ride till I can't ride no more to Rudy's place.

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