You Can't Stop Justice

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

We're in chambers this week, clearing the docket.

And with me, the always auspicious, but particularly auspicious on this episode, Judge John Hodgman.

Sorry, Jesse, did you introduce me?

Yes, I did.

I'm sorry, I was looking at the Judge John Hodgman Wikipedia page.

And

I was noticing that, according to the Judge John Hodgman Wikipedia page, the number of Judge John Hodgman episodes is 495.

Come on, Wikipedia editors.

It's not 495.

Because as of today, 500.

Five bills.

Jesse Thorne, we have been doing this podcast.

You and me together.

And then for a big chunk of it, of course, with Jennifer Marmor, another big chunk of it with Julia Smith,

other chunks of it with our friends Mark McConville, Matt Gorley,

as well as Joel Mann here in Maine at WERU, Hannah.

Hannah Smith,

a whole Monty Belmonte, summertime fun time guest bailiff, Monte Belmonte, Gene Gray, so many other great guest bailiffs over the years, so many great litigants.

We blew by our 10th anniversary, which I guess was November of 2020, the year that I'm glad is over.

Now, here we are in the middle of January 2021,

dropping our 500th episode.

We're going to make a

listen, everybody, we're going to make a big deal of this.

We're going to have, I don't even know what we're going to have, a cavalcade of stars, right, Jesse?

Yeah, that was the plan.

I mean, the plan was,

you know, we had Richard Kind lined up.

Yeah.

We had

the late, great Buster Keaton.

That's right.

I forgot about that.

David Kwong, the magician, who is an actual sorcerer, was going to raise Buster Keaton from the dead.

Kate Smith was going to sing God Bless America.

Was it going to be all dead people but Richard Kind?

Richard Kind is so consumed,

in fact, overflowing with joie de vivre

that that I think his vivre could

enviven

even the deadest of doornails.

That's the problem with Richard Kind, because he is so full of life.

And if,

folks, if you don't know who Richard Kind is, you're wrong.

You do know who he is.

One of the great character actors of movies and television.

You've seen him in a bunch of things.

Check him out in a serious role in A Serious Man, the Cullen Brothers movie.

Also, check him out

in the wonderful

Red Oaks,

the Amazon show with Annis Esmer and Jennifer Gray and Richard Kind and Paul Reiser.

And yours truly, John Hodgman, in an impressive three-episode arc as the manager of the

cable television station.

Watched that show with my wife.

Enjoyed it very much.

Yeah, Richard Kind.

Boy, that was odd.

You know, I didn't know this was going to be the Richard Kind Memorial episode.

I thought this was going to to be about us and our 500th episode, but I'll tell you, when I was on set on Red Oaks hanging around with Richard Kind

and Jennifer Gray

and all the incredible actors in that show, I made a joke and Richard Kind laughed.

And it was one of the greatest moments of my life.

I mean, he's very generous with his laughter, but he laughed so hard and he slammed his hand palm down on the table in delight.

And I'm like,

that's it.

I'm done.

I'm done.

It's the summer of 2016.

Nothing bad is going to happen this fall because Richard Kine laughed at my joke.

And you know what?

Nothing will ever get better because Richard Kine laughed at my joke.

I'm going to quit my podcast and go away forever into the woods of Maine.

But I had a commitment to my friend Jesse Thorne.

To my friends, you, the listeners and the litigants.

You can't stop the podcast.

You can't stop justice.

no it's a runaway train yeah and it turns out things did get worse it also turns out things are getting a little bit better cautiously optimistic new year to you all happy 500th episode jesse thorne you know what my new year's resolution was

what's that make 500 episodes of a podcast done done it's not even february wow yeah well let's quit while we're behind i just want to say i have some presents that i uh some 500th episode presents that i've mailed to you all I hope they arrive before the end of the podcast.

Let me know if they do.

Have we addressed the fact that we got each other the same Christmas present without coordinating?

I think we mentioned it last time, and that was going to be what I was, yeah.

We got each other like basically

500 itsits.

The famous ice cream sandwich from San Francisco that you had mentioned on the podcast.

I mailed you a bumper box of its,

and I think you mailed me a double bumper box of itsits.

I think there were literally 500 Itzits.

I got you the variety pack.

Yeah,

we have a second.

I mean, this is where I am in my midlife.

I have a second refrigerator in the garage.

One of the greatest.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, boy.

That feels good, doesn't it?

Yeah,

it's just like, well, I have that extra space to freeze or chill a thing.

But now, you know,

the freezer drawer

in the second refrigerator is full of itzits.

Yeah.

It's a frozen cornucopia.

I could put my arm in there elbow deep

and pull out an itsit that I didn't even know they made.

Ginger?

Yeah, you might put your arm in there.

You might pull out a pumpkin itzet.

A cappuccino itzet.

A strawberry itzet.

You might put your arm in there, John, and pull out a chipset, which is an itzet with a chocolate chip cookie instead of an oatmeal cookie.

It's a riff on the classic chip witch.

Yeah.

Well, no, it's a rich, I would say it's a riff on the classic itzet, but go ahead.

I don't want to, I I don't, you know, of course,

I'm sorry, it's spoiled now, but I did get you another 500 Itzits.

Joel Mann, I sent you 500 gallons of scallops.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

And Jennifer Marmer, I sent you 500 tuna fish bagel sandwiches, your favorite sandwich.

Thank you very much.

Well, let's get into some justice, John.

Here's something from Robbie.

He says, I bring this case against my brother, Daniel.

I live with Daniel and his wife.

Daniel and I are both students, so we end up spending a lot of time at home together.

In our house, we have several shows we watch together on our TV, including The Great British Bake-Off and Kim's Convenience.

Daniel thought it was funny to skip the intros to these shows, even though they're quite short and lovely.

I think this is something only a monster would do.

It started as a joke, but now it is his default when watching.

My sister-in-law also finds this annoying.

I will note he will not skip intros for shows like Bob's Burgers, which contain new jokes each episode in the intro.

I ask the court for an injunction that Daniel not be able to skip through these lovely little short intros.

I recorded a voice for Bob's Burgers, a guest voice, and I got recast.

That's all I'm going to say.

Move on.

Let's move on.

You soured me.

You soured me, Robbie.

You made me remember something that hurt.

It's like not being on Archer for you, Jesse.

That's how bad I feel about it.

Got recast.

Yeah.

You know, I was one of two people who got recast in our guest voices.

You know who the other one was?

It's made me feel a little better.

Emo Phillips.

I was going to guess Richard Kind.

Richard Kind.

No, no.

Oh, this is what I was going to say about Richard Kind.

Richard Kind is so full of life

that he can't walk by cemeteries or else the dead rise again.

He's so full of life the Draculas kneel before him.

Yeah.

I think he's mankind's greatest hope against the Draculas.

That's exactly right.

Okay.

Robbie, I'm in a better mood now because I thought of Richard Kind instead of that completely understandable and reasonable professional setback.

Bobsberger's a great show.

Love it.

Love everyone involved.

Now,

this thing about skipping intros, this was new to me as of a year or so ago.

I noticed

the nearing adult human man who lives in our house with us skipping the intros on all of the shows that he binges.

And I found it really disorienting.

But I think that that might be a generational thing.

I think it may be very common for young people to skip the intros.

But as Robbie points out, Netflix and other streaming services have an option so you can skip the theme song.

Jesse,

do you ever do this?

Is there a show you're binging and do you have a binge protocol?

I don't binge.

I watch episodes one at a time.

Right.

I don't, it's been years since I've had the time on my hands to watch more than one television show episode at once.

I don't even have time to watch a movie.

Right.

Much less three episodes in a row of

narcos or whatever.

I will say, I don't generally skip the intro, although I have no moral objection to it, except in one case,

which is cheers.

Anyone who skips the intro to cheers is a horrible monster.

Besides that, I mean, I'd be, you know, you want to catch that Blackboard joke in an intro of The Simpsons or whatever.

Certainly, there's a charming little bits and bobs you wouldn't want to miss in the intro of Pop Spurgers.

But if you're skipping the intro of the Great British Breaking Show, I don't care.

That's fine.

That's your choice.

But if you skip the introduction to cheers,

why even bother watching television?

Yeah.

It is a relic of a time when shows had real theme songs

that lasted for more than a sec.

And

the intro was part of the building of the vibe to the show.

Well, the introduction, particularly in a sitcom,

has a very specific role in the show.

And that's why so many of those those old sitcom themes are basically have lyrics that establish the premise of the show.

It's because that intro segment, that opening segment, establishes the characters and the rules of the universe, the situation,

from which will flow the calm.

Right.

My favorite theme is: We're in a court,

a night court, dunk, dunk, but

judge is a magician

and a scamp.

Bam, bump, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum.

He loves Meltorme.

There's a tall guy with no hair.

And several other bailiffs.

And John Laroquette.

Beep, beep.

And Marky Post.

I think that as television viewers became more sophisticated, they found that they could establish the premise purely visually in a relatively short amount of time.

And that premise establishing became more and more abstract.

But if you've seen the show many times and are completely comfortable and familiar with the premise, it's not necessary to establish the premise.

It's just that there is literally no more televisually satisfying and comforting 90 seconds or whatever than the intro to cheers.

There's no better or more beautiful moment in all television history than the intro to cheers.

So you should just watch it whenever

you can.

Jennifer Marmer, listen to media historian Marshall McLuhan over here, Canadian media theorist.

I know nothing of his work.

Yeah, that's right.

I know something of his work.

Joel, what are you binge watching?

Peaky Blinders.

Peaky Blinders?

That's supposed to be a good show.

It's really good.

I can't understand what they say, but.

Right.

It's really good.

Does that have a theme song?

Yeah, it does, but I skip over it.

You skip it?

Yeah, I don't binge watch, but I skip over each intro.

Do you know the theme song?

Something about a guy in a black coat with a red hand.

Can you sing it?

No.

All right, no.

Peaky blinders, peaky blinders, peaky blinders, a man with a red hand.

That's how it goes.

Jennifer Marmor, what do you binge watch?

What are you watching?

We're not really binge watching a lot.

The crown.

Yeah.

Yeah, that intro feels skippable to me.

But we don't for some reason.

You let it run.

See, I let it run out of cultural habit.

But what Jesse is saying is correct, which is that

they are archaic at this point.

Not only are viewers more sophisticated, but

basically people stopped making real

opening sequences to shows.

Certainly sitcoms in the 90s.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, Friends was kind of the last one.

I feel like it was Seinfeld that was busy like, yeah, let's just move on.

Boom, ba-doom-a-doom, boom, go.

And since then, you know, they want to, they,

the, the economics of television at the time were like, let's just make more room for commercial advertising.

Let's not waste everybody's time.

And consequently, I feel like there are very few shows that have an intro that truly merit sitting down and watching.

But I will still feel an inclination to sit through them and watch them anyway, out of cultural habit.

Now, I'm the greatest detective in North America.

Not in Central or South America.

That is, of course, the territory of my great detective rival, Eric Lunroot.

Look it up.

I just did.

And I can tell that these folks are in Canada

because they called it the Great British Bake Off.

In the United States, it's called the Great British Baking Show.

I believe because

either Pillsbury or

what's the other big baking conglomerate?

When you buy a cake in a box.

Betty Crocker.

Oh, yeah, Betty Crocker, I think, owns the term bake-off in the United States.

And Kim's Convenience is a Canadian sitcom that I had not heard of

that I checked out.

And it's a very charming sitcom about a Korean-Canadian family in Toronto that's been on for a few seasons, and people like it.

I'm glad to be introduced to this.

Very sweet show.

Yeah, sweet show.

You've seen it.

Yeah, I've watched a few of those.

Yeah.

Very sweet.

Yeah.

And a very nice family sitcom.

Very nice family sitcom.

That's what, you know, like

Canadian sitcoms are really what we need.

Like, this is why we have the Schitt's Creek.

Nice.

I immediately got the same feel off of it as Schitt's Creek, where I kept waiting in Schitt's Creek for it to turn sour and mean.

But I was like, no, nice.

And it was such a relief, such pleasure.

The intros to both of these shows are fine.

Do you know what I mean?

Kim's Convenience, you get to see a lot of Toronto.

I enjoy that.

It reminds me of travel.

Great British bake-off.

I don't know why we're baking show.

I don't know why you would skip in these times

even a few seconds of British countryside and close-ups of biscuits.

Why would you skip that?

Like,

I want only that.

More slow pans over pies and cakes.

I don't even like cake.

I'll watch that.

So ultimately, it's a matter of taste.

As with anything, you know, the big fight over whether to have subtitles or not when you're watching shows with different people,

when you're, you know, watching, you know, when you want to know what the volume should be, you have to find some consensus, Robbie, Daniel, and his wife.

But Daniel is the only one who wants to skip the intros, and Robbie and his wife don't.

And, you know, what's interesting about Canadian democracy is that

majority rules.

It's a weird, it's a weird thing they have in Canada.

Majority rules.

So since Robbie and Daniel's wife both would prefer to watch old school and enjoy

the little pause of anticipation that the intro offers, I'm going to say, Daniel, you may not skip, as Robbie puts it, these lovely little short intros.

Pay homage to the great theme songs of the past and enjoy that picture of that lamb frolicking in the grass or the beautiful cinematography of Toronto that Open Skim's convenience.

Thanks for introducing me to that show.

John, if I wrote a sitcom that was set in Toronto, you know where I would set it.

It's not a convenience store.

No, where?

Skydome.

100% Skydome.

It all takes place in Skydome.

I don't know what Skydome is.

Sports?

Now known as the Rogers Center.

Oh, right.

It was the first stadium built with a retractable roof, and it has a hotel inside it.

Inside the roof?

Where.

Yeah, where Hall of Fame, no, not inside the roof, inside the stadium, where Hall of Fame Blue Jay second baseman, Roberto Alomar, lived.

Whoa,

he lived in the stadium?

He lived in the stadium, John.

That's not a premise for a sitcom.

Bobby Alomar living in a Major League Baseball stadium with a retractable roof there in Toronto.

There's like a goofy butler.

Maybe.

I think you could sell that in a second.

That's the new sweet Canadian sitcom that we need.

Yeah.

Bobby Alomar,

the hotel in the skydome.

Let's make this happen.

Special guest star Dave Steebe.

I don't want any stunt casting.

A picture for the blue jacket.

No stunt casting.

A picture for the blue jacket.

That's too meta.

I want anti-meta.

You don't want Dave Steebe to come in?

No,

it's fine if it's grounded in the story, but I don't want any stunt casting.

I don't want any turn to cameras.

I don't don't want any breaking of the fourth wall.

I don't want any surprise guests who play themselves.

Just straight up, sweet character sitcom in the Canadian style.

I'm commissioning it, by the way.

I'm the head of the CBC.

Well, congratulations on that.

In the honor of the 500th episode, 500 million loonies to you to make this thing go.

Thank you.

Ah, ow.

Oh, ow.

That's right.

Sorry, I sent you live loons.

By the way, Jeremy, if you're listening, I know that you had a very similar conflict over this.

You also sent it in.

Parallel thinking, just like Newton and Leibniz with the calculus.

And I'm sorry that we didn't hear your case.

You simply weren't Canadian enough.

I don't know which way you were rooting in the skip or don't skip intro, but my ruling applies to your house as well.

We're going to take a quick break to hear from this week's sponsors, but first, an update from past litigants.

We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

My name is Vincent, and I was one of the participants in the chili versus soup debate.

My stance was that chili is not a soup, but its own category of food.

And I'm Ryan, and I think chili is soup.

Vincent contacted me and said, hey, we're going on a show.

We need to settle this once and for all.

We need some outside

expertise and it was just it was it was wild yeah it was really interesting uh I was a fan of JJ Goh for a while and and a and a max fun supporter for a while and so

and also a big John Hodgman fan and so

you know it was sort of the perfect storm I never thought we would get picked but I knew the argument had legs because it had sort of taken over our entire friend group for the better part of a couple years uh uh because Ryan and I were so our really good friends

but we used to get in these sorts of spats and

that don't mean anything and we were both vehemently against the other person's position

and so it was pretty exciting to just drag Ryan onto a a show to force somebody else to who could be an impartial judge on

who was had the correct position

and the day of was was fun it was really weird and nerve-wracking because at the time, this is 10 years, ish years ago, and

there weren't a lot of people listening to podcasts like they are now.

So we literally just went to Jesse's house and we walk in, and it's him, Jordan, and then

the other guest was there.

It was Chris Hardwick.

Yeah, he was a, you know, and then John Hodges.

Which I didn't think about at the time was hosting Web Soup, which

we didn't even bring up.

He should have been the foremost soup expert, but exactly, yeah.

But it all felt like it happened very fast.

And it was weird because we were standing.

Everybody else was sitting and we were standing up.

And they were talking and kind of BSing around us like they do on the show.

And then it was just kind of thrown to John and then to us.

So it was like...

Really weird.

I don't know how you felt about it, Ryan, but it was funny because I don't talk on a microphone for a living.

So it's really weird to be put on the spot after like watching and hearing four people do it with such ease.

And then it's like, oh,

it's like really just out-of-body experience where it's like, oh, now I'm going to talk about this dumb argument I have with my friends.

The thing that really struck me at the time was that,

I mean, we've been talking about this for over a year.

Like, usually when we're drunk in bars and stuff.

So we would talk, we were were talking about this for hours and just for it to like be at the highest scale

on

this platform and be distilled down into the segment.

I was just like,

oh my God, this was like everything.

It was all building up to this.

And it was just over so fast.

And when we got the verdict, it was just like,

oh, that was, that was, uh, that was big.

Yes.

That was much more.

yeah, it was just such a intense, short, intense experience.

Yeah,

the judge rendered his verdict that

it is not a soup,

but it's not its own subcategory.

That chili is a stew,

which

I think took us both off guard because we really wanted one of us to be right or wrong.

But now there's a third argument in the mix, and it just

it settled our personal differences but it also was just like you know it's like a draw where nobody's happy after it and i think we all the debates after just uh were kind of us versus john hodgman yeah yeah

so it might have squashed our beef but it started in invisible beef that john hodgman has no idea about but man it united us uh but it united us against john hodgman yeah because i don't believe that chili is the stew.

No, absolutely not.

I still don't believe it's a soup, but I definitely know it's not a stew.

Yeah, yeah, because a stew, of course,

is slowly cooked.

It's stewed, and there's some great chili recipes that only take like 30 minutes.

Tops.

So, yeah, yeah.

And those are stews that I would actually stand behind.

So you can't have a quick stew.

Average stew time to cook is like an hour and a half to four hours.

So if something can be be cooked within 25 minutes to 45 minutes, it just can't be a stew.

Clearly.

Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

And I felt like I had rendered a real knockout punch, which I had saved to the end, where

I had stated in the original case that

my prime argument came down to you can't put soup on a burger.

And

that seemed to stop everyone in this track.

So I was feeling pretty great.

Like I had come out.

And then this.

No, I was gut punched.

Like all the air was out of my lungs when you did that.

Which I will say is a personal moment of triumph because usually Ryoton wins these arguments pretty handily.

He's a very smart guy and

he's too quick for me.

And so I was pretty happy with how that turned out.

And then to have the rug pulled out and now it's a third thing.

Ultimately, it didn't matter.

It didn't matter, yeah, because Ryan didn't even care what we thought.

So I think it was, he had his own agenda, which we could have never foreseen.

He had his own horse in the chili and soup race, Stew.

Stew.

Yeah.

A lot of time has passed and the world has kind of changed a lot

since that happened.

I kind of, I don't like compartmentalizing food so much into like these kind of

categories.

I don't like to bind them to food binaries.

So I'm much more willing.

to like see soup as a spectrum, you know?

Like chili is like, it can be a little bit of soup.

It can be a little bit of condiment, you know?

So I think like time

has made me a little bit softer on my, on my stance.

And it actually has me going a lot more towards what Vincent's argument was, that it was his own thing, you know, just like anything.

It's just,

or I would love chili.

if it was a condiment as much as I would love it if it was a soup.

So

it's a very flexible food, I think, is

where we net it out at the end of the day.

You know, it could be a condiment, it could be soupy,

it could be a solid, you know, it could be, it's many things to many people, I think, is where I came out on it.

Yeah, yeah, it's chilly, it's fluid, yeah, just like a soup, it's fluid,

but you know, but it's strong, like uh, like more of a solid food, yeah, yeah, it can be, can be, yeah, definitely,

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at maximumfund.org, and they are all your favorites.

If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic.

Just go to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

Did you know that most of the dishes served at Tom Clicchio's craft restaurant are made in, made in pots and pans?

It's true.

The brace short ribs, made in, made in.

The Rohan Duck Riders of Rohan, made in, made in.

That heritage pork chop that you love so much, you got it.

It was made in, made in.

But made in isn't just for professional chefs.

It's for home cooks too.

And even some of your favorite celebratory dishes can be amplified with made in cookware.

It's the stuff that professional chefs use, but because it is sold directly to you, it's a lot more affordable than some of the other high-end brands.

We're both big fans of the carbon steel.

I have a little carbon steel skillet that my mother-in-law loves to use because cast iron is too heavy for her, but she wants that non-stick.

And I know that she can, you know, she can heat that thing up hot if she wants to use it hot.

She can use it to braise if she wants to use it to braise.

It's an immensely useful piece of kitchen toolery.

And it will last a long time.

And whether it's...

griddles or pots and pans or knives or glassware or tableware.

I mean, you know, Jesse, I'm sad to be leaving Maine soon, but I am very, very happy to be getting back to my beloved Made-In Entree bowls.

All of it is incredibly solid, beautiful, functional, and as you point out, a lot more affordable because they sell it directly to you.

If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common.

They're made-in,

made-in.

For full details, visit madeincookware.com.

That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware.com.

Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We are clearing the docket this week, and we've got something here from Emma.

Hang on a second.

Hang on.

I apologize, Emma.

Let me just say, Jennifer Marmor, I told you we weren't supposed to be doing anything special for each other for the 500th episode.

Just a gift of 500 tuna bagels.

That just a small, and you went and created this pastiche of old litigants coming in as a surprise to me.

Thank you.

I couldn't help it, Judge.

That's really nice.

A real trip down memory lane with the soup versus chili guys.

That's how it all started.

If you don't know, everybody, that's how it all began.

Yeah.

Okay, here's something from Emma.

Over a month ago, I was cleaning up the dining room.

Under a stack of boxes, I found a little box, so I opened it to make sure nothing was inside.

I found a receipt from my favorite jewelry store, and the receipt was for the purchase of the actual ring I had wanted to get as a wedding ring.

The receipt was dated for last summer on my birthday.

So now I know my significant other has a ring and is likely to propose, which is great.

Except he has not proposed after having the ring for half a year.

I don't like lying or evading the truth.

It bothers me.

However, I can't say anything because I shouldn't know.

I need advising on this engaging ethical entrapment.

Well,

you know,

this is

a podcast that seeks to mediate disputes between two litigants.

It's understandable that it often gets confused as

a manners podcast or an ethics podcast.

This is not a dispute.

This is an ethical question.

Does Emma

ask what happened to this ring?

Does she reveal that she has this information?

But

I should reject the case, but I can't.

Because

this is actually Emma Thompson, the famous actor Emma Thompson, writing in.

Oh, wow.

Thank you for writing in, Emma Thompson.

You're so wonderful in everything.

You're good in everything.

She was particularly funny.

Yeah.

So charming, such a brilliant actor.

She was particularly good in the movie Love Actually,

which I had never seen.

Have you ever seen it, Jesse?

Yeah, I have really strong feelings about it, though.

That are really going to upset some people.

Let's not upset anybody.

Let's keep it sweet like a Canadian sitcom.

Look, let me put it this way.

I love Emma Thompson unequivocally, as I do many of the performers in that film.

All I'm going to say, and the Love Actually heads out there have already gotten to this,

is that the reference I'm making, of course, is to Emma Thompson's character in Love Actually,

who discovers in her husband Alan Rickman's jacket pocket a piece of jewelry that she anticipates he is going to give to her for Christmas.

And then when Christmas morn comes along,

the box is presented to her, and it's the same-size box.

About, the box is about the size of a, say, Joni Mitchell CD.

And then she opens it and it turns out to be a Joni Mitchell CD because he knows she loves Joni Mitchell.

Jennifer Marmora I don't know whether you were scratching your eye in that moment or wiping a tear away because you know this moment have you seen Love Actually?

Oh yeah

and I was wiping a tear away.

It was so sad.

Yeah.

I had never seen it before.

The adult woman who is not my wife who lives in our house and is related to us

made us watch it just before Christmas.

And

I had never seen it before.

And boy, oh boy, I can see how a person would have strong feelings about this movie, one way or the other.

It's a weird, beautiful, funny, strange, messed up movie.

It's about 17 movies in one movie.

It was like the director was like, let's just make all the movies.

Richard Curtis.

Let's make all the movies.

Joel, you ever see Love Actually?

I think I did, but I can't really remember.

All right, let me tell you what happened.

Okay.

Alan Rickman, in one of the 14 storylines,

Alan Rickman,

who's one of the best,

knows that Emma Thompson loves Joni Mitchell, so he gives her a Joni Mitchell CD for Christmas, thinking she'll love it.

But of course, he doesn't know that she already saw the piece of jewelry that he had bought.

for the woman he's having an affair with.

And Emma Thompson figures this out, and she just excuses herself from the Christmas tree to go stand in another room and listen to the Joni Mitchell CD and cry, and it's incredibly sad.

It's incredibly sad because no one makes Alan Rickman a philanderer in a movie.

Come on, it's Alan Rickman.

Also, it wasn't justified within the movie that he was doing this, or even revealed.

It's weird.

What do you think about that scene, Jennifer Marmor?

It was really heartbreaking to watch her react.

She's incredible.

She's an incredible actor.

Yeah.

And, you know, that Joni Mitchell, Both Sides Now, is already like a very emotional sounding song.

Look, now I'm wiping away a little something.

Yeah.

It's hard.

It's hard to watch.

It was hard.

I mean, it was hard for me because I love Alan Rickman so much and I hate seeing him play a person making a terrible, terrible decision.

It was hard for me also because I didn't even realize that this affair was real at this point because the movie is

chopped up into 37,000 different pieces.

And then it it was hard because Emma Thompson gave such an incredible, touching performance and as a dramatic conceit, discovering that your loved one has purchased something that you think is for you, and then it doesn't materialize.

Hmm, wonder why I referenced this.

So, listen, obviously, the person writing in is not Emma Thompson, nor is this person named Emma.

Because I don't, I don't, I, we made, we said, we said to her, who wrote in, are you sure that you want us to talk about this?

I don't know what your significant other has got planned

or what the story is.

And it could be Emma Thompson-style sad.

But

Emma, quote unquote, the actual writer in, confirmed that her significant other doesn't listen to the podcast or is behind, probably stuck on episode 300.

And so it's okay to talk about.

So what do you think, Jennifer Marma?

You mentioned that you've had some experience with this kind of thing before.

Is that correct?

Yep, that is correct.

What is your experience, and what do you think Emma should do?

Well,

my experience is that my now husband left the engagement ring that he was planning to give me just out in the open, like I wouldn't see it.

I've since learned that he seems to, if he has a gift for me, he thinks that if it's on his side of the bed, that I won't see it.

Yeah.

So, yeah, there was a small box,

unmistakable box, sitting on his nightstand.

And I said, what's that?

And he was very weird about it.

And

three coffee beans.

Just a three coffee bean sampler from Ruby.

And yeah, and it was the ring.

And, you know, that wasn't how he was planning on proposing.

And he was like, should I give it to you?

And I was like, well, I don't know.

Like, this is your thing.

Like, what did you want to do?

How was he planning to propose you?

Was he going to leave it in the dishwasher or on a mantelpiece?

I don't know because what ended up happening was we decided not to because I felt weird about like the that.

And so I was like, okay, I'll just leave it up to you.

But then several weeks went by and nothing happened.

And I was like, I just want to plan a wedding.

Like if we're, if this is what we're doing, like I just want to start planning and I don't want to wait for this arbitrary question

when we both know what we're doing with our lives.

And

essentially, I feel like I bullied him into proposing to me.

And, you know, we've been married now for four years.

We have one child, a dog.

I still sometimes feel bad and feel like I forced him into a marriage.

Well, I don't understand.

No, no, no.

He was planning to propose to you.

What, what was he?

Do you know what he was waiting for during those awful, awkward weeks?

No, I don't know.

And we had kind of offhandedly talked about like, yeah, maybe we'll go out for pizza and then you'll propose or something like that.

And

one night I was like,

let's go to this pizza restaurant that you always talk about.

Cause I I was just like, I want it to be over.

Wow.

And you wanted it also not just to be over, but to be over in the kind of romantic ambiance that only pizza can offer.

Well, that's the other thing.

He knew that I would not want to be proposed to in public.

So it's like we went on this lovely date and like went out for pizza, went to our favorite ice cream place, like got a drink.

and then like still nothing had happened.

And we got home and I was just like,

okay,

so

it was awful.

It was awful.

Look,

I've met your husband, Shane.

I think he's a wonderful partner and father and

dog companion.

Is he there?

He's here.

He's somewhere.

Yeah, go get him.

Okay.

Yeah, go get Shane.

Shane's a really sweet guy.

Yeah, and I should say he's like the best person.

I love him very much.

That's why I feel so bad about how unchill I was about this whole thing.

It's just, to me, it's just the mystery.

While Shane gets up, Jesse, this is what I'm going to say to the person we are calling, Emma.

Emma, I doubt that your significant other is Alan Rickman.

I doubt that your significant other is up to mischief.

I don't think they purchased the ring you wanted on your birthday without the intent to give it to you

or that they gave it to someone else.

Oh, there's Ezra, the baby.

Jennifer Marmor has brought her child in instead of her husband.

I think Shane is using your child as a human shield from judgment.

So what I'll say instead, you know, but I do think, Emma, at this point,

you need and deserve to have some clarity as to what's going on.

Maybe your significant other lost the ring.

I think that's like maybe they accidentally left it on their bedside table or dropped it down a hole.

But that would be an explanation.

Or maybe your significant other

is having some thoughts, some fears, some ambivalence that you deserve to work through as a couple.

You did not find this

ring through snooping or any malfeasance.

It came upon you accidentally.

And

you now have the knowledge and you are authorized to proceed with that knowledge because it came to you honestly and you deserve to know the answer.

Now, Shane,

John, Judge John Hodgman here from the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

How are you?

I'm doing okay, John.

I'm feeling a little put on the spot, but let's get to it.

Yeah, well, sometimes justice comes swift.

Like a karate chop to the back of the head.

Yeah, like a karate chop.

Karate chop.

Karate chop justice.

We were talking to, we were just hearing from a litigant here.

She had discovered a receipt for an engagement ring on her birthday last year, and she was excited because she knew that her significant other knew which ring she wanted and this was it.

And then it's now now,

months have passed and the proposal has not materialized.

And she's looking for advice as to what to do.

And Jennifer Marmor told me that something similar happened in your wonderful relationship, true or false?

It's true.

She did find a ring box prior to an engagement.

Where did she find it, Shane?

You know, there's a lot of places to hide things.

A lot of people just put them on their bedside table.

A lot of people do.

A lot of people do.

I love the fact that you feel that your bedside table was invisible to her.

Because that is true about people who live,

whether it's roommates or partners,

spouses or whatever.

When you're living in close quarters, you have to create a delusion that certain spaces are really private.

Like,

even though you might be in the bathroom and you can hear everything everyone else in the house is saying, you have to believe that they can't hear the sounds that are coming out of your body.

And similarly,

your bedside table becomes a zone that is purely Shane.

But obviously it was found.

And my question to you is, what was the plan?

What was your plan for that ring?

And why did did eventually Jennifer have to just say, give it to me?

It was supposed to be like a nice dinner and then giving her the ring, which wasn't

the,

it was more of a placeholder ring because her family has a heirloom engagement ring.

And

the dinner did not go as nicely as one would hope.

But he didn't give it to her.

No, it's because he insisted on Hawaiian and she wanted meat lovers.

I insisted on a pizza place that was not agreed upon by the rest of us.

So it was one of those I went in with a plan that was entirely my plan and it felt like it would be nicer to have a plan that would be more mutually shared as we agree to share a life together.

So you decided this is the wrong time.

You had the ring in your pocket and you're like.

Yes, I decided it was the wrong time and we could find a better time to give the ring, like when she finds it later that night.

I understand, Shane.

Look, it's a big decision.

And even when I knew that I was going to propose to the woman who is now my wife,

you know, I can't even begin to conjure the words for the anxiety I felt because, you know, once you say the words, you don't go back unless you're a monster.

It is a dimensional portal into a new life.

So I can appreciate

the wanting to take seven weeks or whatever it was, even after the ring was discovered, to finally

pop the question, as it were.

Jennifer Marmor, do you forgive him?

Oh, yeah, of course.

All right.

And oh, by the way, Shane, do you apologize?

Yeah, for the rest of my life, always and forever.

Good.

Nothing, just remember, nothing is perfect.

Nothing is, no evening is perfect.

And no recording situation is perfect either.

There's a child just playing in the background.

Yeah, I know.

This is awkward, but it looks and sounds great.

The other thing I would say is, Jennifer Marmor

and and Shane, the next time you guys get married, Jennifer Marmor, you just leave a ring out for Shane.

Okay.

Don't wait on him.

Good.

Leave a ring.

Leave a ring on.

Well, you know, he probably won't even see it on your bedside table.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it, but I'll likely never notice it.

Yeah, he seems to believe that the other person's bedside table is invisible.

This requires the partner to be observant and careful.

Just go to putthisonshop.com.

for an anniversary present and just leave the ring on his bedside table.

Great.

Good plan.

Sounds great.

Thanks, John.

Thanks so much.

And by the way, Emma, I hope that that helps if you're listening.

And Emma's significant other, if you're listening, get it together.

Figure out what you're going to do.

Come clean.

There's something that's being hidden and it needs to be revealed.

Judge Hodgman, we have an appeal here.

In episode 498, A rollicking docket, we heard a case from Michael about his distaste for fruit.

His partner, Brenda, called him a fruit hater, and he says he simply doesn't have a taste for fruit because of a fruit intolerance he had as a child.

Well, Brenda has more information they'd like to share with the court.

Here's what Brenda has to say.

Before you read the letter, Jesse, this reminds me.

Joel?

Yes, John.

They still have Setsumas up at the trade winds.

You should get some before the season ends.

I saw them.

All right.

Okay, thank you.

Bye.

All right, go ahead.

I agree that being wary of fruit due to his fructose intolerance early in life is valid.

However, he hasn't had fructose intolerance for 20 years and consumes copious limes in the form of many gin and tonics.

What I consider fruit hatred is his refusal to eat non-citrus fruits because by his own admission, he just doesn't like the taste.

I'm Chinese American and eating fruits after dinner is a deeply ingrained part of our food culture.

It's considered ungracious to decline.

This holiday, each time we were offered fruit, Michael would refuse.

I made excuses for him and said he had an intolerance as a child, so he didn't seem rude.

This led to my parents offering him every variety of fruit in the house to be a good host, and he refused them all.

I think it's fine if fruit isn't his favorite, but if he won't eat it unless it's in a gin and tonic, I think hating and strongly disliking are just semantics.

He's lactose intolerant, but he eats cheese anyway, so I don't say he hates cheese.

I'd simply like Michael to accept he is a fruit hater and that that is okay.

Huh.

All right, so Brenda fires back.

And by the way, I'm the greatest living detective in North America.

And I noticed that Brenda spells favorite with a U, so probably in Canada as well.

Hello, Canadian listeners.

Good going with your majority rules democracy.

Good idea.

This is a wrinkle, Jesse.

I was not aware of this cultural issue with regard to Michael being offered fruit at the end of every meal,

nor was I aware of Michael's

consumption of lime in his

daily or weekly or whatever it is

quinine intake via gin and tonic delivery method.

But I'm not sure that these two pieces of information changed my mind about labeling Michael a fruit hater.

Because I'm sorry, Brenda, like

you established that Michael had and acknowledge and established in your parents' home that Michael had a fruit intolerance that makes him, as you put it, wary of fruit.

I think quite reasonably wary of fruit.

And then your parents are like, we understand, but what about this fruit?

But what about this fruit?

But what about this fruit?

And after a while, you just said, no, he hates all fruit.

It is really important for Michael to respect

your parents and your cultural heritage.

But I don't feel that he is being disrespectful.

Unless you are accusing Michael of being a straight-up liar who actually can tolerate any fruit and doesn't have this wariness about

these foods that used to cause abdominal cramps, nausea, dizziness,

other symptoms of fructose intolerance.

If he's not a liar, then he's simply asking you

and your parents to respect his agency and his body.

And while I'm sure your parents are wonderful people

who

mean well

and who are only trying to be the best hosts they can,

trying a bunch of other fruit on him,

I'm going to see your parents are now, they're verging on rude.

Sorry,

Brenda's parents.

But there's a little bit like, I understand you're a vegetarian, but have you tried this bacon?

I understand that you're a vegetarian, but you eat meat, right?

How about this slice of salami?

No.

Send that bacon and salami to me, John Hodgman, care of Judge John Hodgman, care of maximum fun.

And keep your fruit, because I don't like it either.

But to be diminished and accused of being a fruit hater when you are a fruit disliker or a fruit-wary

person.

I think it's just mean.

I think you just have to accept.

It's not that Michael hates fruit and that's okay.

It's that Michael chooses not to eat fruit and that's okay.

And, you know, what I would say is,

since you know that he will eat citrus fruits in the form of a lime or a lemon and a gin and tonic,

maybe next time for fun, when you're at your parents' house for dinner, they can offer Michael a lemon to suck on.

Let's take a quick break when we come back, the world premiere of a brand new mashup called Nub Court.

But first, another update from past litigants.

We'll be back with more soon on Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Declan.

And I'm Taryn.

I'm the older brother.

And I'm the younger brother from the Wake Me Out Before You Go, Bro case,

where I brought to the judge that I was displeased with waking Taryn up in the morning

Lotha's like seven years ago.

Six or seven years at this point.

I was having trouble remembering how the case ended.

I know that I lost, but I don't remember.

Yeah, I don't like listening to my voice.

So

I sent that to everyone I knew, but then I never listened to it because I hate listening to myself.

So I don't remember how it ended either.

All I remember, truly, is like, I remember smashing the alarm clock.

That was a big...

I probably took that a little too far.

I probably didn't need to gut the alarm clock.

Yeah, you could have just said you.

I could have just made like a smashing sound and not actually smashed the alarm clock.

But I did actually smash the alarm clock.

In case anyone wondered, I doubt they did.

If this hasn't been bugging anybody, I did really smash that one.

I know I bought a new one.

I used those through college, and they worked pretty well.

If only because I had roommates to worry about,

I do sometimes rely on people to wake me up just so I don't sleep in.

So

I'll tell my dad, if I haven't texted you by

X time, just start calling me.

So it's that

sort of thing that doesn't take time out of one's day like it used to with Declan's.

So what has happened since

is I went to

Emerson College in Boston.

I majored in

film and TV writing.

graduated in

May of 2018.

And then my apartments lease was up in

August.

So I moved out in July

and I

figured, okay,

there's an election in November of 2018.

I'll just, I'll move back home to Atlanta, do some canvassing for a couple months, vote.

and then

move to

New York, LA, somewhere where my friends and industry comrades are.

And I ended up getting involved in voter protection more than canvassing.

And I ended up getting offered a job, technically a part-time job, but I've been doing it for the past over two years now.

I am still in Georgia working with the Coalition for Good Governance.

Please donate if you can.

And I,

you could say I'm an analyst.

I do what needs to do it.

Currently, I'm at

Reed College in Portland, Oregon,

studying neuroscience.

I look back.

What it did,

this is important.

This is something I didn't even realize.

When that, the summer after we did that, because that was in the spring, I think, or whatever, later in the summer, we went...

We went to see Hodgman in Charleston, West Virginia at some like comedy festival.

Was it?

I thought it was the same.

Like a year later,

we went to see him in Charleston, West Virginia.

We took like a road trip.

It was our first like solo trip, the boys.

And

on that trip, we hiked in the Kanawha State Forest just outside of Charleston.

And

we came across an old family cemetery.

and i wrote my my college like entrance essay about that uh cemetery and that experience like

connecting with with past people in a place i didn't expect uh and so that is that is a direct correlation to the podcast and and something i wouldn't have expected it leading to how i present myself for colleges i

remember when I showed it to friends my age,

old friends and new friends, who were in similar situations going off to college with

younger siblings or older siblings.

It seemed to resonate with them emotionally in a way I was not expecting at all.

I don't know if that speaks to our relationship, but it's probably the thing I think about the most in relation to having done this: is that when I would show it to people who are also 18, 19, they talked about how it resonated with them on an emotional level that I didn't really feel because for me it was just a fun thing we were doing.

It was cool to be on the podcast of someone I admired and a podcast I felt was fun.

And also,

if you have money to spare,

consider going to coalitionforgoodgovernance.org and donating.

You're a shill.

Yeah, happy 500.

500 is a lot of episodes.

It was a small but not insignificant part of my life.

How many episodes does Gunsmoke have?

Has Judge Sean Ashman beat Gunsmoke?

Yeah, that's the goal.

Hashtag beat Gunsmoke.

The Beef and Dairy Network is a multi-award-winning comedy podcast here on maximum fun, and I would recommend you listen to it.

But don't just take it from me.

What do the listeners have to say?

I would rather stick a corkscrew inside my ear, twist it around, and pull out my ear canal like a cork than listen to your stupid podcast ever again.

Please stop contacting me.

Hell would freeze over before I recommended this podcast, The Beef and Dairy Network, to anyone.

Not in a million years.

Actually, stretch that.

Make it a billion years.

No, how long's Infinity?

That's the Beef and Dairy Network podcast available at maximumfund.org and at all good and some bad podcast platforms.

Disgusting.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened, and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no,

you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and Me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So, let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're clearing the docket.

So we heard from a listener named Lisa about a case from episode 496, a gallon of scallops.

Barbara wanted to know if it was acceptable to donate unwanted tonic water to a local food bank.

Lisa suggests local buy-nothing groups on Facebook for similar dilemmas.

She goes on to say: A buy-nothing group is hyper-local and membership is limited by geography.

You can ask for help or post items you're no longer using.

As the name indicates, everything is free.

I have three small children, including twins, so we cycle through a lot of stuff.

It gives me so much joy passing on our clothes, toys, and gear to someone in the community who can really use the items.

People also give and request food.

During the holidays, there were several requests for help, sometimes anonymously through the admin, and people stepped in to provide meals and gifts.

I certainly don't want to take anything away from supporting food banks, but I think both are great options for helping neighbors.

Well, thank you, Lisa, for writing in.

And listeners, before you write me a letter,

we edited Lisa's letter down a little bit, but you should know that they were like, yeah, I know Facebook isn't the best.

This is just where these

buy-nothing groups that Lisa is familiar with exist.

Facebook is obviously implicated in a lot of harm in our civil society, but it's also implicated in a lot of fun in the Judge Chun Hodgman Facebook group.

And it's also implicated in a lot of really good works.

And Lisa was very, very right to point out specifically these community bulletin boards where people

share information, share food, share resources, these buy-nothing groups.

It's a very, very valuable way to connect with your community.

While I've been up here in Maine,

there's one that I belong to, and I was very lucky to not destroy my car in a massive pothole after the last snowfall because I was warned about it

by Nick.

Thank you, Nick.

I appreciate that.

He warned everyone in the group.

And there are a lot of people who are sharing resources, food, clothing,

warm clothes for kids.

It's a really wonderful way to be directly involved in your community.

And if there's a way to access your community or build such a group outside of Facebook, I welcome you to do it.

And in particular, you know, Lisa, you're not taking away from food banks because I may have mentioned earlier, but we received quite a few letters from people who are involved in food banks who are like, like, the really, you know, if you can afford it, the best way to support food banks is actually through monetary donations rather than donations of food, for example.

Maybe even more than donations of time as a volunteer, because the food banks have buying arrangements with big food wholesalers that can make your dollar go very, very far compared to just dropping a case of Stuart's canned shell beans on their door and driving away.

Save your case of Stewart's canned shell beans

for your local buy-nothing community group that you're a part of or that you form in your neighborhood.

People need a lot of help and a lot of support right now.

And I think that's a wonderful suggestion, Lisa.

Thank you.

You know, John, I had an experience the other day that reminded me of that case.

And I wanted to mention that at least here in Los Angeles, where I live, there's been a real proliferation of what you might call community food libraries.

You probably are familiar with those

phone booths and other

little pieces of civic architecture that have been repurposed into book giveaways.

Here in Los Angeles, there are many similar

edifices that are for food giveaways.

And I know I cleaned out my pantry the other day.

There was some stuff that I wasn't going to eat because of varying dietary needs and so on and so forth.

And right near my house, there is

a house that in front of it has a little shed type thing that is free food for anyone who needs it.

Drop off extra food that you have, and I dropped some stuff off there.

And mostly it was

not equivalent to tonic water.

Mostly it was staple food.

But I will say that a kind listener gifted me for Christmas a box of Turkish Delight.

Now, Turkish Delight is one of the most delightful, no pun intended, foods to refer to or make a joke about

because of its central place in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.

Correct.

And the fact that it's kind of just...

Yeah, and because nobody is exactly sure.

Most people are not exactly sure what it is, and most people who are sure what it is or have tasted it are aware that it's super gross.

I'll tell you something.

I'm an only child, so maybe I can't really say for sure, but there's no way Turkish Delight would get me to betray my siblings.

Not just this pale gelatin coated in sugar.

No.

Give me a gummy of some kind.

Go ahead.

You don't want...

pectinated fruit juice with little pieces of pistachio in it.

Anyway,

I understand that not everyone thinks Turkish Delight is as gross as I do,

but I knew that no one in my family wanted it.

It was a real tonic water situation.

You know, I think tonic water is gross.

You love the stuff, John.

Not everything is for everyone.

And

I was grateful to have that thoughtful gift that was an allusion to me making jokes about Turkish Delight, I think, on Jordan Jesse Go.

And I was grateful to pass it on to someone else who might like a nice dessert and actually enjoys this stuff.

And did that also help you to recruit them into your plan to keep Los Angeles in a period of perpetual winter without Christmastime?

Oh, yeah.

No, this was this, I enchanted it on the way out.

No doubt about that.

I got to catch this one fawn.

Is that what happens?

Yeah.

All I really remember about the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe is the British television movie version with the giant beaver people.

yeah well they're supposed to be regular beavers that can speak but um i think when that tv movie was made in england in the 80s or whatever they did not have the technology to animate beavers who speak so they

they dressed up humans as horrific

beaver furries basically

I mean, I think in the 1980s in England, they didn't even have film cameras, right?

They just had video cameras that had been decommissioned from 1970s American sitcoms.

I made the mistake of looking at these beavers again.

And

wow.

Wow.

I got to send this to Joel.

Joel, I'm sending you a picture.

You're not trying to scare me, are you?

Look, I don't know what your reaction is going to be.

These are the beavers.

Well, that last one you sent me about the Halloween.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah, that was Harvester of Souls.

Very scary.

Okay.

What do you think about this one?

Whoa.

Yeah.

What the heck?

We'll put that on the Instagram

and hope that we don't get sued by the BBC or ITV or whoever it was.

But they kind of look like overgrown Ewoks.

And speaking of Ewoks, what do you got for us, Jesse?

We recently had a conversation about what little kids call their pacifiers.

Yeah, that's right.

We're talking about pacifiers.

I was saying my son always called his pacifier his Fafa.

And

what was the pacifier names in your house, or did you have any?

I mean,

I called it Binky sometimes just because I enjoyed it, but we mostly called it the Pacifier, I think.

And we also talked about the, talking about Fafa, we also talked about Yub Yub, which is the famous lyric from the Ewok song of celebration at the end of the original edit of Return of the the Jedi.

And somewhere along the way, I said, There's a mashup here waiting to happen.

And did that happen?

Yeah, well, you remember all of these things correctly, and the mashup is here with us.

So, inspired by our conversations about Fafas,

about yub-yubs, and of course, our love for the Harry Anderson vehicle Nightcourt, listener Jeff, also known as Artifius,

dropped this track last week.

We're now dropping it on you.

Roll tape.

Guess what, Jesse?

What?

There's a mashup to be made.

Let's start at the very beginning.

How hot is it?

Jesse, I have a question.

You have a bunch of children.

Were pacifiers part of their growing up?

Doraimi.

Did they ever have different names for their pacifiers?

Doraimi.

Like Passy or

Passing up, Passy Nub.

Joe Rayme Pasola.

Once you have these notes in your heads, you can sing a million different tunes

by mixing them up.

Passing up.

Like this.

Yub Yub.

Yub Yub.

The classic Ewok cry of victory over the Emperor.

Sorry, I started singing the nightclub theme.

Let's see if I can make it easier.

You don't need to add to the grossness.

How hot is it?

Five dinks.

It's science.

Gross

You know what there's an overlap

and there's a mashup to be made

Yup yup

Our son called his pacifier a fafa

If a fafa falls suck on that four fafa gross get onto that fafa

My wife thinks this is gross.

Guess what, Jesse?

What?

Thank you.

It's science.

The body needs to think.

You don't need to add to the grossness.

How hot is it?

It's hot as three hours of simmered bolognese.

Ask anyone at a barbecue pit.

Whoa.

Wow.

Now, Jesse, had you heard that before?

Yeah, I think I heard that one time, that time that Girl Talk testified before Congress.

I heard it.

Jennifer Marmor, this is what I remember.

Jeff sent that in.

I started listening to it.

I'm like, pretty good.

Pretty good.

Then when it started going into the night court theme, my brain started to melt.

And then it reformed and then melted again and then exploded.

And then I was like, well, let's play it on the podcast.

And Jeff's like, wait, I must perfect it.

I feel like he added about seven minutes at the end since the last time.

There's a whole

movement to that that I hadn't heard before, I feel like.

Thank you, Artifius.

Shout out, by the way, obviously, to

the Doughboys who do drops.

And of course, to the sound collages of Tom Sharpling and the best show,

which is, I don't want anyone to feel that we're biting their style.

But I'm very grateful to Artifius for sending that in.

And apparently

there was a Guster song in there as well.

I didn't hear the Guster song.

But shout out to the lead singer of Guster who showed me and David Reese around Burlington, Vermont four years ago when we went there.

That was very nice of you to do.

Thank you, Chief Guster of Guster.

That's it.

Dockett's clear.

Another episode of Judge Sean Hodgman in a book.

Not another episode.

The 500th episode is in the books.

Congratulations to us.

Congratulations to.

I just want to say thank you again to everybody at Maximum Fun,

Jesse, Jennifer, Joel, Monty, everyone involved in the show, but especially to the listeners and the litigants for keeping me company for 10 years,

for trusting us with your lives and important, often very important decisions, your memories, your stories, your matchups.

I hope that we have treated them well.

And thank you, especially, listeners and litigants, for

being such an active part of this podcast.

Obviously, it's impossible to do it without you.

And also, thank you for, you know, challenging me when I needed to be challenged.

And over 10 years, I feel like

I've really grown a lot since that day that I told those guys that chili was a stew, not a soup.

As a person, I've really

my mind has been made better through this whole experience.

And I hope that my acts in the world have also been made better by it.

And I'm very grateful.

So thanks.

I would like to thank you, John, for being such a wonderful friend all these years and being such a

joyful and delightful collaborator.

And I would especially like to thank...

I would like to thank Jennifer Marmor,

who, you know, you hear her voice these days once in a while, but mostly she's behind the scenes.

And I don't think our listeners are aware of how hard she works to bring you this show.

She is much more the source of this show than John or I.

And she has done incredible work, not just in ideal circumstances, but in these far from ideal circumstances.

So I want to thank her.

And I also don't want this incredible milestone to pass without thanking our friend Julia Smith, who was the producer of this show for many years

and

worked incredibly hard to make this show what it is with her,

you know, not just not just diligent work, but many brilliant ideas that shaped the form of this show.

And, you know, she was doing it while

producing it part-time.

It was a really extraordinary achievement that speaks to her talent.

So

we've been lucky to have two really incredible collaborators on this show,

Jennifer and Julia.

So I would like to take this opportunity to tip my cap and say thank you to them because I am very grateful for sure.

Thanks, guys.

Joel, I'm sure you have a few remarks prepared.

Anyone you want to thank?

Just my mom and dad.

All right.

We got it.

The orchestra's playing you off.

I want to thank Joel's mom and dad, too.

Thanks, mom and dad.

Thanks, Joel's mom and dad.

Run, run, run, yub, yub, yub, away.

Go ahead, Jesse.

Our producer, Jennifer Marmer, our engineer in Maine, Joel Mann, program program and operations manager at WERU Community Radio in Orland, Maine.

You can listen to WERU at weru.org.

You can follow John on Instagram at the Maine Man, M-A-I-N-E-M-A-N-N.

Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

We're on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

We also have our own Instagram accounts at johnhodgman and at put.this.on.

Make sure to hashtag your judgejohnhodgman tweets, hashtag jjho, H.

O, and check out the Max Fund subreddit to discuss this episode.

Submit your cases at maximumfund.org/slash JJHO or email Hodgman at maximumfun.org.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman.

500 X.

Oh, oh, oh, oh,

can't hit those notes anymore, Jesse.

MaximumFun.org.

Comedy and culture.

Artist owned, audience supported.