Mr. Commode's Wild Ride

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, Mr.

Commode's Wild Ride.

Lauren files suit against her mother, Sherry.

When Sherry dies, she says she'd like her ashes flushed down a toilet at Disney World, so her remains are recycled with the water used for the flowers in the parks.

Lauren is opposed.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

Excuse me, excuse me, could you give us some change, please?

The doctor says we have asthma and we have to eat ice cream right away.

Lauren Sherry, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he's been pre-cremated so he could be flushed down one of the terrifying water slides at New Jersey's Action Park?

I do.

I do.

I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Thank you very much, Lauren and Chair.

You may be seated.

Yeah, that's right.

I cremated just a little bit of myself so that

I could send, I actually taped my ashes to the Tarzan swing at Action Park.

Hey, everybody, watch Class Action Park on HBO Max, a documentary about a very dangerous theme park that I narrated.

And I get no money for saying that.

This is the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

And let's get down to it.

Sherry or Lauren, can either of you name the piece of popular culture that I quoted in this case?

I changed no words.

I quoted

as I entered this fake courtroom.

Lauren, you're on top of my Zoom stack right now, and I can see you there puzzling it out.

Why don't you guess first?

I would guess that it's from that episode of the Brady Bunch where they go to Hawaii.

Episode of the Brady Bunch when they go to Hawaii.

And

Peter gets that little haunted tiki doll, and there's a lot of cultural appropriation.

And you're making that guess because

Walt Disney World is in Hawaii?

There's a lot of ties to Hawaii and Disney World, and

I remember the quote exactly.

I'm not even guessing.

I just remember that exact quote from the show.

Yeah, that's right.

Maybe she's making that quote because

that's the only cultural reference Gen Xers are capable of making.

Maybe so.

The episode of the Brady Bunch where they go to Hawaii, which I've never seen but feel as though I know

because of all of my friends who are five to ten years older than I.

Yes, that's right.

Well, also there was that afternoon of Max FunCon, Jesse, where I locked you in a cabin and told you the plot line of every Brady Bunch episode.

And I remember when Cousin Oliver was introduced, you were openly weeping at that point,

which I think was mostly to do with the fact that you wanted to be free and you didn't want to do this anymore.

But it mirrored my feelings of sadness when Cousin Oliver was introduced because I was like, this show is on its last legs.

All right, the Brady Bunch, we'll put it in there.

Sherry.

By virtue of the randomness of Zoom,

you are below me in my Zoom stack, my gallery view.

Therefore, you guess second.

You can also guess an episode of The Brady Bunch, but why would you?

I don't know if you've listened to this podcast before, but usually the cultural reference has something to do with the case at hand.

And the case at hand involves you,

and I trust and hope that you are in relatively good health now.

Oh, yes.

Great.

So at some unspecified point in what I hope will be the very far future, when you inevitably pass away, you would like to be cremated and have your ashes flushed down a toilet at Walt Disney World.

Is that correct?

Walt Disney World, not land.

I understand your particular prejudice.

Don't worry.

Yeah,

that's going to be a problem.

The Magic Kingdom or some other part?

Some other part.

Okay.

So normally the

obscure cultural reference is a reference to some aspect of the case.

So you can guess something to do with Hawaii or the Brady Bunch, or you might guess something to do with Walt Disney World or Disneyland.

Who knows?

Or you can just guess the classic guess, which is that's probably lyrics from a mountain goat song.

That's right.

I really believe that it's from Leave It to Beaver.

I'm sorry.

The two of you.

Great news.

I'm kind of a Leave It to Beaver expert, and I think it's from the one where Beaver buys his mom that blouse with the Eiffel Tower on it.

It says oola la.

Ooh la la.

And afterwards, he and Wally went to the ice cream parlor or something, didn't they?

I think that's, I'm really thinking pretty, I'm nailing it here.

Jennifer, you're a millennial.

Would you like to bring up Saved by the Bell now?

All guesses are wrong, including Saved by the Bell.

It's not Leave It to Beaver and it's not the Brady Bunch doubleheader where they go to Hawaii and meet Vincent Price.

Come on.

Look, these are unusual times.

And so I'm going to give you

another chance.

Since you are talking about Hawaii and cultural appropriation and tiki culture,

you're surely familiar with the enchanted tiki room at Disneyland, later replicated at Walt Disney World.

Yeah, yeah, yes.

So you know what a dull whip is, right?

Oh, yeah.

All right.

Now, this is a quote from a movie.

The word that is changed in this quote is dole, okay?

In other words, I'm inserting dole into this quote where another

word would have gone, okay?

If you name the movie,

the other chance.

Now, the connection to Disney theme parks is the dole whip in this case, okay?

You ready for it?

Dole whip, dole whip.

We'll have three dole whips.

Jesse Thorne gets it.

I can see.

He's got three fingers up.

I did the international hand signal for three dole whips.

Dole whip, dole whip, three dole whips.

I'll go first because I'm pretty confident again.

I think it's

top of the Zoom stack.

The movie, I can't remember the name of it,

where

Patrick Swayze is the surfer.

Moving on.

Moving on.

Okay, okay.

I'm moving on both because you're wrong and also

my brain is damaged from the year that we're living in, and I can't remember the name of that.

It's a very famous, very famous movie.

Point break.

Point break.

Thank you.

Sorry.

Sorry, I apologize.

Everyone can stop yelling at their listening devices now out there in podcast land.

You can also stop yelling out the answer to this second quiz point because I know a lot of people got it, but I'm betting, Sherry, you did not.

Oh, no, not even close.

No.

Really?

Because it's from season three, episode 19 of Leave It to Beaver.

No.

It's from the Blues Brothers.

John Candy is waiting to arrest the Blues Brothers as they play their final concert.

And he's there with the two state troopers.

And he goes, who wants an orange whip?

Orange whip?

Orange whip?

Three orange whips.

One of my favorite lines in movies.

And then going back to where we started,

excuse me, excuse me.

Can you spare some change, please?

The doctor says we have asthma.

We have to eat ice cream right away.

It's a line from a movie released in 2017, directed by Sean Baker, called The Florida Project.

Have you seen it?

Yes.

Have you seen it?

You have seen it?

Yes.

Yes.

It's an amazing movie about children and barely homed families living in a sub-budget motel in Kissimmee, Florida, right on the outskirts of the Magic Kingdom.

called The Magic Castle with Willem Dafoe.

It's a great, great movie.

And I'm sure you can now guess why I picked it, because not only is the whole story set in the sort of grim, sweaty shadow of the Magic Kingdom, the real difficult reality that exists in the shadow of the Magic Kingdom, but also because Sean Baker took the two

young actors

who played the two main characters, the two children,

into

the Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World and filmed the final scenes there surreptitiously with an iPhone, you know, because you're not supposed to shoot movies in Walt Disney World or Disneyland unless you just do it anyway.

And there have been a number of different movies that have surreptitiously been shot in Disneyland, including a horror movie called Escape from Tomorrow and a comedy called The Further Adventures of Walt's Frozen Head.

Neither of which I have seen, but I have seen The Florida Project.

It's a hard movie to watch, and it's a beautiful movie to watch.

And I encourage you watching it, A, because it's good, and B, because it involves doing surreptitious things in a Disney theme park, which is what you propose to do, Sherry.

Is that correct?

Correct.

And that was a very good, obscure reference.

Excellent.

That was great.

Well,

your pandering is noted.

But we are forever enemies because you besmirched Disneyland.

And I am a Disneyland person and not a Disney World person.

But we'll set our differences aside in these difficult times.

So, Sherry.

Yes.

First of all, we know that you're doing okay.

I'm glad to hear it.

Where are you located currently?

Hudson, Ohio, which is between Akron and Cleveland.

So, should and when you pass away,

why do you want your ashes flushed down a Disney World toilet?

And do you have one in mind?

I do.

Actually, it's not.

I hope so.

I don't want a public toilet outside

the Haunted Mansion or anything.

I just want a nice, like probably the nicest hotel room in all, at a resort hotel room

in privacy.

You know, we can't have music and candles.

And, you know,

I don't want a public toilet.

You don't want it.

You don't want your ashes spread in the park itself.

Well,

the toilets in the hotel rooms go to the same place.

They recycle the water.

So what does that have to do with it?

Well, if I'm flushed down a toilet and they recycle the water, then they recycle it to irrigate everything, to water the plants and the jotopia areas.

Have you looked at the blueprints?

Do you have schematics of the Disney World and surrounding resorts sewer system?

Filed a FOIA request with the city of Orlando.

Well, actually, I checked on this before, you know, just to make sure I wasn't wrong about this.

No, but it's true.

They recycle the water they use and they use it to water everything.

Let the Lauren show top of the Zoom stack up there shaking her head with dismay.

What specific daughterly dismay are you trying to express with

your grim head shaking?

That your mom is wrong

or

that this idea is wrong or that you have a better place to spread these ashes?

All of the above.

First of all, I don't care what toilet.

I don't want to flush my mother's ashes down a toilet.

Any toilet, anywhere, any toilet.

And I'm also not, I know she did some light research, but like I'm not convinced that it's really gonna go on the flowers.

And I also think that there are some like alternatives that don't involve me flushing your ashes down the toilet.

And that's kind of why I wanted your help, because I feel like there's a compromise.

that doesn't involve me who would be mourning, mom, I love you more than anybody, anything.

And I would be, we have to think about, I'm not going to be in good, good shape, and I don't want to have to flush your ashes down a toilet, any toilet.

So for you, it's the toilet aspect, not the spreading of the ashes somewhere in Walt Disney World.

Correct.

I might get arrested in Disney World if I were to perhaps spread her ashes in the jungle cruise.

Or I guess,

you know, Pirates of the Caribbean might be easier because there's not a tour guide on those boats.

But I might get in trouble.

You only have robots looking at you.

Pirate robots.

Yeah, so I would probably get in trouble, though.

I'd probably get caught.

You know, if I did her idea of flushing the ashes down a toilet in a hotel room, I probably wouldn't get arrested.

No one would know.

I wouldn't do it unless you might get arrested.

I would prefer to get arrested than to have to, then not get arrested and have to flush her ashes down a toilet.

All right, Sherry, or shall I call you Cookie?

If you want to call me Cookie, that would be wonderful.

It says here that most people call you Cookie.

Yeah, my friends call me Cookie.

Please call me Cookie.

Thank you very much, Cookie.

Cookie, I like you, all right?

I like you because your nickname is Cookie.

You've got some funny ideas about getting rid of your ashes in a toilet.

I like you because

it says here that

you do a lot of volunteer work focusing on literacy.

And whatever you might have done during the earlier years of your life, professional or otherwise, now you write about Italian movies and collect vintage Barbie clothes.

I do.

That's true.

And before this gets harsh, Cookie, I'm going to plug your Instagram right up top with great enthusiasm.

Great.

Instagram.com/slash barbie underscore snack.

You make scenes with vintage Barbies and post them on Instagram.

And this is an incredible thing.

I'm going to just channel David Reese right now and say, oh, this is like the greatest thing I've ever even seen right now.

Cookie, you're killing it.

Thank you.

Got a bunch of Barbies.

First of all, I had to follow you.

Follow.

Good.

Thank you.

Now I can heart this one.

This one of one, two, three, four, five, six vintage Barbies around a little miniature Ouija board.

Come on.

That's the greatest.

All these vintage Barbies hanging around.

One of them having an arm wrestling cart.

They're always up to something.

They're always up to something.

Cookie, I think you're amazing, but if I had known that you wanted to flush your ashes down a toilet, an adjacent hotel, I never would have taken this case.

Come on.

I thought you had panash.

I thought, I thought,

because Lauren is right.

People are sprinkling ashes all over these parks.

all the time.

I thought like you did, Lauren, that

it because I had heard tale of people like trying to

spread the ashes of loved ones from a doom buggy in the haunted mansion.

I had heard stories of this, and I had presumed, like you, Lauren, that this was like A, rare, and B,

grounds for instant getting into Disney jail.

And the latter is true, that according to a Wall Street Journal article a couple of years ago,

Disneyland and Disney World would like you to not do this.

And if you were caught spreading cremains

anywhere in the park, you would be escorted out of the park.

You would not go to jail.

But according to the same Wall Street Journal article, this happens all the time.

People don't get caught.

It's very common.

Among Disneyland and Disney World

custodians, You got your code U, that's urine, someone urinating.

Got to clean that up.

Code V, vomit, and then code HEPA, H-E-P-A, because that's when they need to bring in a very fine-filtered vacuum cleaner to vacuum up human remains.

Now, whether this is ethical, whether this is gross,

whether this is kind to the poor Disney employees who have to clean up literally the junk of your body,

these are topics for debate, but no one was coming into this talking about whether Lauren was going to check into

a Disneyland resort, excuse me, a Disney World resort hotel, like the Magic Castle in the Florida Project, and

dump her mom into a motel bathroom.

That's not what I thought we were talking about here.

So right off the bat, I have a lot more questions about this scheme than I did before, Cookie.

Sorry to say.

Judge Hodgman, can I tell you about the time that my friend Jordan got Disneyland arrested?

Yeah, please.

He was in high school and was a very theatrical high schooler.

You'll be shocked to learn.

This is my friend Jordan, co-host of my comedy podcast, Jordan Jesse Go.

Yes, sir.

And he and his friends got into, you know, the normal theatrical high schooler thing, stealing bowling shoes from the bowling alley and wearing them when you're not bowling.

And of course, carrying around bubble pipes.

They were on, I believe, Pirates of the Caribbean, and they were carrying their bubble pipes together and making

extravagant gestures to each other, as one does when one is with one's friends carrying bubble pipes.

When they got off the ride, the Disneyland security took them into Disneyland jail

because they said, we saw you on the cameras doing drugs on Pirates of the Caribbean.

Oh, no!

And while they were trying to explain, ultimately, unsuccessfully, that they just had bubble pipes,

the security guard asked, How did you even get into the park today?

Yeah.

Jordan said, Oh, well, we live in Mission Viejo, so we have an annual pass.

And the security guard said, That's an excellent way to enjoy the park.

Okay.

So, Cookie, now that we know

that we have an idea of the stakes, Cookie.

Yeah, now that we have it.

Well, there is no stakes in Cookie's.

I mean, Cookie is just going to ask Lauren to check into some seedy hotel room and dump her mortal remains down a commode, and Lauren is now shaking her head again.

Can you even dump cremains down a commode?

Are they fine enough?

Cookie, have you looked into this?

Um, no.

I'm sure they are.

I'm sure you can.

And, you know, that's why I want it.

I don't want Laura to get banned from Disney for life.

You just want her to get banned from the hotel for life.

Oh, she'll never get to ride the monorail again.

I hadn't really thought that through.

You just want me to be traumatized for the rest of my life, my motherless years.

Cookie, picture your daughter in tears, remembering her love for you as she repeatedly works the lever on that toilet, trying to get chunks of her mom to stay in the pipes.

Oh, man.

Wow.

You better make sure that you will her a plunger as well.

Add a plunger in the will.

And a good one, the one that Wirecutter recommends.

That's right.

So, Lauren, I want to talk to you about the trauma that you would feel.

Obviously, the loss of a parent is

one of the hardest things one goes through.

And

when you envision yourself in even a nice hotel room, is there a particular room cookie that you have in mind?

Yeah, something at the yacht club.

Yeah, but do you have a suite that you, oh, Lauren?

Lauren, please, though I can see you in the Zoom stack.

This is still an auditory medium.

Can you explain the look of utter disgust on your face?

The yacht club is fine.

We enjoy the yacht club.

But if you're going to do it, like, yeah, exactly.

I thought you had Panache cookie.

Like, if it has to be a hotel, what about the Polynesian?

You know, there's actually, they actually have like tiki-themed toilets.

Like, at least, I mean, I'm not gonna do it either way but like at least if if I was going to do that you would let me have some fun you know the yacht club come on yeah she wants to reenact the Brady Bunch visiting Hawaii in front of a tiki themed toilet cookie how about that as an idea this is all part of the negotiations and the compromise okay okay

I'm gonna calm down now deep breath I've been roped into your negotiations I gather okay I just feel like if you don't care you say you don't care because it all goes to the same place.

So

why would it have to be the yacht club?

Does it?

It's all shut.

It doesn't.

Okay.

Okay.

What's interesting to me is it doesn't feel like there's a particular special place.

You could probably dump these ashes into some irrigation ditch outside of Disneyland, and eventually that would evaporate up, seed the clouds, and rain on the flowers that you love so very much.

Right on Mickey's face, right there in

front of the train station.

Yeah, how about that, mom?

Oh, something to consider.

If I got arrested for dumping your ashes in the jungle cruise, it would be an honor.

But I'm not, I don't want a toilet to be involved.

Do you understand that that's what's bothering me, the toilet part?

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

So that is a vague mm-hmm of I understand and acknowledge your speaking, but is there anything in that mm-hmm that suggests like, I get your your point and maybe I could consider something else, Cookie, or no?

You still want that toilet?

Uh, I get her, I get, I guess, I get her point, but it, I, I guess the point is, I don't get her point because I don't get why it's such a big deal.

I don't understand,

I

just don't.

I'm sorry, I'm shocked, frankly, that this is an issue.

Mom, I have a question.

Yes, go ahead, I'll allow it.

Thank you.

Um, would you be able to flush my ashes down the toilet?

Sure,

All right.

Asked and answered.

Now, Lauren, people are.

Heck, I'll flush it down the toilet right now.

Different people are different people, Lauren.

They have different feelings, right?

So

try to describe to your mom how you would feel

standing over a non-tiki themed toilet.

dumping your mom's ashes and flushing it down.

I mean, it sounds, this sounds all very silly, silly, but it's not.

My mom is, mom, I love you more than any, any, you're my best friend.

You know this.

We go to Disney World four times a year.

Like we do.

Disney is our place.

Please address the bench and not the witness counselor.

Oh.

Because also, I thought we were best friends, but now I know.

Oh, I'm sorry.

You know, my mom is everything to me.

I, I will be a shell of a person if my mom passes before I do.

And

I can't imagine anything more disrespectful.

Like that's like, to me, a heinous thing to do, flushing, like you flush bad things down the toilet.

Can we please agree, mom?

We usually flush, usually flush bad things down the toilet.

And you are my favorite thing.

And I would love for you to deliver your ashes to flowers in Disney World.

I totally get it.

But I can't do it.

But I also want to honor your wishes.

I want you to

have a good plan, but I'm not going to do it.

You want to honor your wishes.

You just want different wishes.

Exactly.

How does it make you feel when you hear Lauren put it that way, Cookie?

Any different?

No, of course.

Of course it does.

You know,

I just did not understand.

I think all these years she thought it was a joke.

I was joking and I wasn't.

And so now we just come to this point where it's, oh,

we really didn't understand how the other was feeling.

I wasn't joking.

She's been saying this since I was like 15.

And when I was 15, you know, I was 15.

Like, I'm not thinking about that.

And I always thought she was joking.

Everyone's immortal.

Exactly.

Moms and dads live forever.

And then you will outlive them somehow paradoxically at the same time.

Right.

And when you're 15, your mom takes care of everything.

So she's probably going to take care of her own ashes situation.

And then it was not that long ago, it was like a year ago, I overheard her and a group of people saying, oh, no, no, Lauren's got it covered.

Lauren's flushing my ashes down the toilet.

And that's when I realized, oh, wait, this is not a joke.

She really thinks that I'm doing this.

And that's when I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, we need,

I thought you were joking all these years.

Do you really think that?

And that's when this whole thing came up again.

Let's take a quick recess.

We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

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Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

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Court is back in session.

Let's return to the courtroom to hear more of the case.

So, Lauren, you sent in some photographic evidence.

All these photos will be available on the Judge John Hodgman show page at maximumfun.org,

which you can navigate to and enjoy these photos and also perhaps discover some other Maximum Fun podcasts you haven't been listening to or check out some old favorites.

The photos will also be available, of course, on our Instagram at JudgeJohn Hodgman on Instagram.

And I'm just going to say, Lauren, you send in a few photos.

I'm going to describe them briefly, but you know, lots of times people send a lot of photos and they're and they're boring and they illustrate nothing and

what you have done with these captions is tell a story i'm just gonna say right now if this were who writes the best photo captions

the sound of a gavel would go to you lauren incredible

lauren's exhibit a is a picture of her mom and herself at the Epcot Flower and Garden Festival captioning and I don't know what this is but you got some like weird green chippendale uh monsters behind you look how easily she says I could just secretly put some ashes right on the flowers that's right exhibit B it really is like for the wait hold on John I need to address this first picture yeah it really is a picture of them standing in front of a field of flowers with giant green chip and dales who look to be about to eat an enormous sandwich

yeah isn't it great Disney World is something else, man.

I know.

This is what I have to say about Disney World.

It's something else.

So, exhibit B, this is incredible also.

This is a picture.

This is a picture that I presume Lauren took of her mother, Cookie.

Cookie is wearing fairy wings,

I think, accessorizing a Tinkerbell outfit.

She's pouring a nip bottle of, I don't know whether that's vodka or what it is, Cookie.

Vodka.

Vodka into her

into her dole whip?

Yes.

Oh my word.

Yep.

Oh,

how did I never think of that?

Anyway,

the caption is my mom sneaking alcohol into her non-alcoholic drink in the Magic Kingdom, evidence that she is, that

this is illegal, and therefore this is evidence that she is irresponsible and a risk taker.

Exhibit C.

My mom and I in front of the partner's statue.

So both Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom and Disneyland feature a statue

right in front of their respective castles of Walt Disney holding Mickey Mouse's hand, and it's called Partners.

And this is an exhibit.

This is Disney's tribute to copyright law.

But here we have you, Cookie, and Lauren replicating this pose with you as Walt Disney pointing to the future and

Lauren on her knees in order to capture the mouse-like, well, not true mouse-like stature, like mutant mouse-like stature of Mickey Mouse.

And the caption is, my mom and I in front of the partner's statue, and then in capital letters, because we are partners, two of us together against the world always.

We are teammates, we think about each other always, we consider the thoughts of the other person, we are a team, which is quite an emotional caption.

There's part of me that wants to say to you, Lauren, this is a Wendy's.

What are you trying to convey in this particular exhibit C, you and mom as eternal partners?

That is germane to this point.

I mean, I didn't know that you'd be reading my captions.

So I would have, I feel like they're a little off the rails, perhaps, but,

you know,

we are part, we do everything together.

My entire life, my mom has been my everything.

And I just feel like we can't, in her final moments, like be at a bad place where we're not agreeing.

You know, like we tackle everything together.

Mom,

you've been there for me, and I've been there for you.

And in this final moment, I think it should be on something that we are both okay with.

Like, and I'm not okay with flushing your ashes down the toilet.

The point has been made.

And

as far as these captions are concerned, you wrote them.

Now, I did write them.

Producer Jennifer Marmor was Lauren Mirandized before she entered this courtroom.

Did she not know that anything she might say or caption could be used against her in this court of fake law?

Yeah, I guess not.

Then I guess I move for dismissal, immediate dismissal.

Figure this out yourself.

No way, I'm not going to read these captions.

What you're saying in here is important to this case, that you consider your mom a team.

And you obviously spend a lot of time.

The next exhibit, exhibit D, mom and I in our happy place.

It's you and your mom in Walt Disney World.

The caption is a message to your mom.

It says, Mom and I in our happy place.

Mom, please don't ruin this for me.

You seem to have forgotten that you were writing to my courtroom as opposed to your mom.

Yeah, you're right.

Exhibit E, me winning the Disney Princess half marathon in a Tinkerbell costume.

What?

To show you, which could mean to show me or you, mom, I'm not sure who she's talking to at this point.

To show how magical Disney is to me, is Lauren speaking, and how flushing my mom down the toilet would send me into intense therapy for decades.

You ran a half marathon in Disney World?

What?

And she won.

Lauren, tell me about this.

Tell me about this half marathon.

Does it happen on the grounds of Disney World?

Yeah, it goes through like all of the parks, and you you can stop and take pictures with the characters if you want, but I wanted to win, so I didn't.

But I won.

And it's, it was the, I mean, I've had some okay moments in my life, but that was the best moment of my life.

This is an incredible photo of you in a Tinkerbell costume smashing through this tape.

She beat 35,000 other people.

It's the Disney Princess half marathon.

Yeah, because all those losers were stopping to get their picture taken with Wally and junk.

Exactly.

They weren't in it to win it.

And now, just very quickly, exhibit F

submitted by Lauren, a stock image of a toilet is exactly as described.

It looks like a mad magazine picture of a gross toilet as though we don't know what a toilet is.

And exhibit G,

this is your pandering.

Obviously, there's a cat in the picture, right, Jesse?

This is Lauren and her cat, Monty.

How would you describe Monty in this photo?

Go, well, he's making, he's upside down and he's making the classic

face.

Lauren writes, for some reason, I just...

Can cats be Draculas?

Oh, that's a good question.

Sorry to turn this serious, but.

Well, I mean, Draculas surely can turn into cats just as they can turn into bats.

They are all creatures of the night.

Because look at the fangs on this son of a gun.

But are you like, can you say, are you saying, can a Dracula cat bite another cat and turn it to a Dracula cat?

What if a Dracula cat can bite a man and turn it into a Dracula cat?

That's what I'm concerned about.

I'm a man, not a cat.

And I choose to remain that way.

A human man, a non-drac?

Yeah.

That's your preference?

Standard issue.

Stay away from Monty the cat then, because Monty's got some fangs.

Sorry I laughed earlier.

Well, I'm sorry that you're terrorized once again of Draculas, your immortal enemies.

No, I just don't want people to think that I don't take Draculas seriously.

Yeah, no, it's no laughing matter, everybody.

Draculas are bad, right, Jesse?

This time of year and every time of year.

That's right, especially October.

This is Drac season.

Yeah, but you know, it doesn't have to be Drac season for Draculas to have any job.

They can just take any job they want.

They can apply for it, and if they've gotten the resume, they get the job.

You know what I mean?

They could even fake the resume.

A lot of Draculas are on LinkedIn.

I would recommend if you're on LinkedIn, the popular professional social media website,

watch out for anyone, no matter what.

They could have gone to the University of Pennsylvania.

They could have gone to Dartmouth.

Watch out if they have endorsement for transmogrification.

If that's

on their CV, on their LinkedIn.

Yeah, that's a telltale sign.

Look, I just got to read this one line that

Lauren wrote about this cat Monty, because for some reason I found it really funny.

Pick of me and my cat, Monty.

Just so John and Jesse know I I have a cute cat.

Parentheses, Monty is in food coma, comma.

I just gave him a lot of crab.

Meanwhile, Cookie just sends in two photos.

One of her as a young mother carrying Lauren around on her back, looking cute.

The other of her as a young mother

on a picnic or something with Lauren as a toddler or something, looking cute, both of them.

Caption.

I've been a spectacular mother and she owes me.

Which is essentially your,

that is your argument, right, Cookie?

Pretty much, yeah.

Yes.

But these are your dying wishes to be flushed down a toilet in a Disney World adjacent resort, and Lauren should just suck it up and do it, even though it would cause her emotional harm.

And you know this.

It'll cause her emotional harm.

For 20 years, I always assumed she was cool cool with it.

So I'm just now coming to the realization.

I didn't design anything.

I can't believe she's usually such a loving, caring person.

It's like a new side of you.

Who are you?

Well, she's unsentimental about her own death.

True.

So look, a lot of these photos are from Disney World.

It's obviously an important part of your life.

Cookie, can you think

Lauren has expressed that she would be more amenable

to helping your crewmains reach their final destination, flowers, pretty flowers,

if

the job was less toilet intensive, A?

And maybe a little bit more

symbolic to the point of quasi-legal.

yes of course yes so do you think that there is a place that i mean at this point you're not going to be around right right

so really lauren can do whatever she wants sorry no of course no i i

i'm surprised she hasn't thought of that i'm

like okay mom whatever you say unless you've got some kind of a kooky horror movie will where she doesn't do exactly what you want you're going to withhold the Barbie underscore snack fortune back from her.

Right.

If hauntings are a real thing, my mom would haunt me.

And I love you, mom.

I want your wishes to come true, but we need to talk about those wishes.

I want you to be happy with your death plan.

I'm sorry, you said wishes.

I had to risk the wrath of Disney.

I mean, Lauren, what are some alternatives that you would feel more comfortable with, either in or not in the grounds of Disney World?

Well, I think the jungle cruise would be a great

option

because that's a ride that we love.

You've been pushing that jungle cruise so hard from the beginning.

Can you tell?

Can you tell that I'm a fan?

I know that this is not cookie.

Jungle Cruise, yes or no?

This is not a final ruling.

I just want a thumbs up or a thumbs down on whether this is even acceptable to you, Cookie.

Well, it is, but I really think she'd get caught doing that.

Yeah, that seems risky.

What about directly onto the plants at the Epcot Flower and Garden Festival in May?

Because I'm just going to rule that right out.

I don't want Cookie's Ashes anywhere near the creepy green Chippendale.

Yeah, much less that enormous sandwich.

I have one more.

What about this?

Is a little not what you want, but I'm just throwing it out there, you know.

What about in that little like fountain,

like the Cinderella fountain behind Fantasyland?

Do you know what I'm talking about, mom?

Yeah, Babby, you're going to so get caught there.

You're going to, I, I really don't, I don't want you getting banned for life from Disney.

She's not going to get banned from life.

She'll just be asked to leave the park.

They'll ask me to leave.

And I'm okay with that.

I am.

If it's a cool enough idea.

The wishing well?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is that what it's called?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In Disneyland, there's a snow-white wishing well off to the side of the Sleeping Beauty's castle.

But I don't know what it it is in Disney World.

I think it's Cinderella.

Yeah, and I think it's like behind her, there's a crown, but it's way above her head.

I don't know.

I don't know anything about that.

Okay, never mind.

It's a well.

It's a well.

It's a well.

Right, right, right.

There are all, I see there are alternatives.

So I am now going to go into my own perfect replica of the original layout of Club 33 at Disneyland that I have here in my chambers, where I can eat alone.

I'm the only member, and I'll consider my verdict, and I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Cookie, how are you feeling about your odds of getting flushed?

Not great.

It's a pretty weird request.

You got to be frank about these things.

I'm also feeling a little dumb

for thinking that anybody would agree with me, but I don't know.

We'll see.

It's good of you to have a plan.

My dad didn't have a plan.

I had to have a weird conversation with my stepmother where we're like, can you think of anywhere my dad would have,

your father would have liked to have been scattered?

Because all I can come up with is maybe the reservoir, and that doesn't seem right.

Jesse, would you have preferred like a bad plan or no plan?

Well, what if he'd told me he wanted to be scattered on Tom Sawyer Island at Disneyland?

He was kicked out of Disneyland when he was 13.

Yeah, that's right.

My father was kicked out of Disneyland the year it opened.

He's an OG.

Oh, oh, my gosh.

Lauren, how are you feeling about your chances?

I'm feeling great.

I just think

case closed.

I am sure all the listeners are on my side.

Lauren,

as long as I'm being frank, Lauren, I have to say that when you said you were feeling great, it sounded like you were saying you were feeling great because you were four vodka dole whips in.

Oh, man.

Well, of course, always.

I'm feeling great.

I'm not doing the toilet thing at all.

We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second.

Hi, I'm Amber Nash, the voice of Pam Poovy on the groundbreaking FX animated comedy Archer.

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So, join me on rephrasing an Archer Rewatch podcast on maximumfun.org because I can't wait to watch Archer again for the very first time.

The wizards answer eight by eight.

The Cornclave's call to demonstrate their arcane gift, their single spell.

They number 64

until

a conflagration

63

and 62 they soon shall be.

As one by one the wizards die, till one remains to reign on high.

Join us for Taz Royale, an oops all-wizards battle royale season of the Adventure Zone every other Thursday on maximumfun.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Jesse,

how did your dad get kicked off at Tom Sawyer Island?

Fing around.

So this is a difficult one because, you know,

it is obviously emotionally heavy, even though it has a sheen of Disney magic over it.

And it also is about respecting someone's final wishes, which is really important.

I mean, you know, the thing about those images that you sent in, they really did tell a story.

The captions were great too.

But

when your captions lost track of whom they were addressing, to me,

that was like, oh, this has become literature.

When you have that photo of you and your mom together holding hands like Walt and Mickey in front of the partner statue, and you're partners forever.

We were supposed to be partners forever.

There is a great sadness to that, of course,

because Walt and Mickey can be partners forever because Mickey is a fictional character and Walt is frozen inside of that statue.

We all know that.

But for normal people,

even the close bond between parent and child, the very close bond that, by the way,

is always meaningful, but so rare and happy when clearly that bond of love and friendship can extend in an active way well into adulthood, such that you guys are going to the park four times a year, whatever it is, and having a great time together.

That's amazing.

And it is very sad to contemplate that coming to an end.

And when you're 15

and your mom's saying, I'm going to flush my eyes down a toilet somewhere, I don't care.

Then you don't care either, Lauren, because as you pointed out, it's like everyone is immortal at that point.

Nothing is ever going to change.

But now

I have your ages written here.

I'm not going to reveal them.

that'd be rude, but you are

an adult, Lauren, and you are

both you and your mom are contemplating a period of time when you will not be partners on this mortal coil anymore.

And that's a hard thing to absorb.

It's a hard thing to take in.

And it's hard, you know, to make for your mom too, for Cookie to start thinking about making plans for

what's going to be done, what's important for her to be done with what is left of her body on this earth?

I think one thing about Cookie's request to be flushed down a toilet in a hotel,

while on its face seems sad and miserable and frankly unimaginative, given all of the places that we brainstormed, a body could be scattered in the Magic Kingdom.

It is actually considerate of a lot of different feelings.

It is considerate in the sense that

dropping cremaines around Walt Disney World

is work you're leaving behind for others.

It is not fair to ask custodians

to go code HEPA

and get out the special body vacuum because

you thought it was important

to make sure that your ashes were in Doombuggy number nine

or whatever.

It's actually considerate of the fact, A, that other people have to clean up this stuff.

And B, considerate in a hard way

of the reality that

life ends.

Flushing a life down a toilet does feel to a certain degree disrespectful, right?

But in fact, it is respecting the reality that is hard for for adult children to take in and absorb over time, which is that everything that is

your mom or your dad or the person who raised you, if they're not your mom and dad,

that everything that you remember about them goes away and their body is nothing.

Sorry, guys.

Flush it.

Flush it down the toilet.

You know, what your mom cookie is presenting is an idea for

getting rid of her cremains

in a way that leaves little mess behind for others and yet mingles symbolically with the waters that maybe will go over to irrigate her favorite flower bed next to creepy Chippendale who look like weird zombies, green zombies.

I get what you're doing, Cookie.

I made some light of it, but I get it.

Thank you.

But as considerate as you are, I think you have come to understand that one person's feelings you are not being particularly considerate about, which is Laurence, that it would just cause her trauma to flush the ashes of her mom down the toilet.

There will be enough, as Lauren pointed out, that she will be going through, enough sadness that she will be going through,

that to add

the dark symbolism of flushing you down the toilet, especially at the yacht club, which sounds terrible.

Please.

Yeah, my stepmother and I finally decided to flush my dad down the toilet at the Catalina wine mixer.

I also am not convinced,

and we have a Max Fund supporter who actually runs a funeral home, and we probably should have consulted him first.

But I'm not convinced those cremains will go down.

I think that you might end up causing a problem that you're trying to avoid.

Yeah, I don't want to do that.

Anyone who has ever had to go down to the front desk for a plunger knows

the pain.

So here's what I would like to order, because the solution is so obvious.

It's a way of honoring your mom's life, your entwined life at Disney World, your mom's desire to become one with the flora of Disney World,

while at the same time offering you, Lauren, the symbolic, I'll say, spectacle that your mom,

having lived a great life and having run a great Instagram page, to important things, deserves.

And that would be for you to get that Tinkerbell costume out again,

run that half marathon, mix up your mom's ashes with a bunch of glitter,

put it into a little bag, and as you're running, cast mommy fairy dust over everyone in the crowd.

I love it.

Great idea, right?

You must not do that.

Not allowed to.

We thought of of it.

It was fun.

I love it.

It's a biohazard.

No one wants your mom's ashes thrown in their faces, even with glitter.

No, it's too late.

You've already said it.

Oh, mom and I are done with the show.

Mom, you can hang up now.

We came up with a solution.

For the record, I am ordering you to not do that great idea.

Okay.

But that wishing well.

I mean, that might just thread the needle.

People are allowed to throw things into that wishing well.

In Disneyland, it's Snow White.

I don't know what it is in Disney World, but I believe that it's there.

I don't think you're lying to me.

Honoring your mom's wishes of joining, mingling with the waters of Disney World while also being symbolically appropriate, while also minimizing biohazard threat to people who just have a job,

I would take not all of your mom's ashes, but a small amount.

let's say a tablespoon, maybe two tablespoons, and put that in a pouch with a bunch of brand new pennies, if you can get them in this economy.

Mix them up and throw the pennies in the water.

You won't get caught.

The ashes will go with.

And then what you do with the balance of your mom's ashes,

dispose of them in some responsible way that, you know, in discussion with your

funeral director or whoever is helping you with these final preparations.

Maybe you can keep them and put them in a statue of Captain Hook in your garage or something.

I don't know.

But just a small amount into that wishing well with brand new pennies.

Or, oh, oh,

what about pennies from the year your mom was born?

Killing it over here.

It's pretty good.

I feel like I'm going to cry.

I like it.

I love it.

That's brilliant.

Lauren, it's time for a classic bailiff's verdict.

I say you start by getting yourself a t-shirt cannon.

And then you know what, Lauren?

You keep another tablespoon of ashes, and on the year anniversary,

let's say five-year anniversary of your mom's death, check into the Polynesian, just flush that down the toilet, just in honor of Judge John Hodgman.

This is the sound of it, by then you'll feel okay about it.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Cookie, how do you feel?

I feel wonderful.

I think that was genius and I think he solved our problem and I love it.

I'm very happy right now.

Lauren, how about you?

I feel thank you for the thoughtful solution.

I really like it.

It makes makes me really emotional thinking about it, but in a really good way, and I like it.

You're talking about the t-shirt Canon thing?

Yeah, exactly.

Cheers.

Lauren Cookie, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Another Judge John Hodgman case in the books.

In a moment, we'll have some swift justice.

First, our thanks to Chris Neuber for naming this week's episode Mr.

Commode's Wild Ride.

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Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

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Make sure to follow us there for evidence and other fun stuff.

Judge John Hodgman is produced by Jennifer Marmer.

Now, Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment.

Chi Hao says, my wife says birthday cake is its own flavor and type of cake.

I say whatever cake you have on your birthday is a birthday cake.

Who's right?

Well,

if there weren't a birthday cake flavor, there wouldn't be a birthday cake flavor ice cream, right?

I mean, there is a classic birthday cake flavor that is replicated with birthday cake and or sprinkle cake ice cream.

And therefore, I'm going to say

you can have any kind of cake as your birthday cake.

But if you say birthday cake in my house,

you're talking about a Philadelphia cheesesteak sandwich with onions.

That's it for this week's episode.

Submit your cases at maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho or email Hodgman at maximumfund.org.

No case is too small.

Our apologies this week to my neighbor Stephanie.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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