The Hammer of Distraction

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

We're in chambers, multiple chambers this week.

Even more metaphorically than before.

Ready to clear the docket.

Hi, Jesse.

Hi, John.

I hope you're doing okay.

I'm fine.

I'm here in my home office in a very, very quiet Brooklyn, New York.

Of course, this is not unusual for me.

This is where I normally do my recording.

But you are, of course, for the moment, not at maximum fun HQ, but in your own home where it all began.

Yeah, I'm in Mount Washington, Los Angeles, in my home office.

I've got my closet door open to help dampen sound.

Got to keep the bathroom door closed and the closet door open.

That's the secret of all recording.

That's how they record a thriller.

Speaking of thrills, are Coco and Sissy going to come in and do a cameo?

Yeah, we'll see if my dogs or children make an appearance.

All of them are home, and all of them are distinctly noisy.

Well, I hope that you are bearing up okay in your isolation, as I hope all of our listeners are as well.

Obviously, we're going to continue to

keep your scrubbed hands and untouched faces company throughout this ordeal, and we hope that it will not last too long.

But we urge you, obviously, to stay home, stay safe, and stay healthy for yourself and others.

And now let's begin the distraction.

How about some justice?

Indeed.

Let the hammer of distraction fall.

Here's something from Wren.

They say, My husband Vincent uses headphones to listen to podcasts as he falls asleep.

This has damaged many pairs of headphones, some of which were relatively expensive.

We easily go through 10 plus pairs of headphones per year.

Wow.

I'm also concerned this is a safety issue.

On more than one occasion, I've woken up to have his headphone cords wrapped around my arm, or I see them tangled around his own limbs and even his neck.

I voiced my concern.

He remains unconcerned.

He's refused my offer to use a Bluetooth speaker instead.

I'd like Judge Sean Hodgman to order that Vincent can no longer sleep with headphones in to protect the safety and sanity of his adoring wife.

Sometimes the cord wraps around Wren's arm.

And that means Wren cannot be a functional knight of Wren, as in,

I guess, a lightsaber-wielding bad guy

in the later Star Wars movies.

Yeah, I believe that's right.

It must be hard to be named Wren these days.

Yeah.

Because people must be coming up to you all the time.

Back to Larry, frankly.

Yeah.

It's too bad because people must be coming up to you all the time going, can you explain a little bit more of the background of who the Knights of Wren Wren were and what their deal was?

And you're like, I'm just named Wren.

I really would love to learn more about the Knights of Wren.

You know what?

If you need some distraction in your life and you've got some deep background on the Knights of Wren and you work in the story group at Star Wars, drop me a line.

Drop me a line from home and let me know what the Knights of Wren were all about.

Anyway, Jesse, do you ever listen or watch media

in bed?

Like to fall asleep to?

I will occasionally listen to something when I'm taking a nap.

I've never been someone to watch TV

in order to go to sleep.

Right.

But I will occasionally listen to a napping meditation or

something

slow and reliable, like the baseball game,

when I am taking a quick nap.

I tell you right now,

you're just saying the baseball game almost made me fall asleep.

Not because I find sports that boring, but you're right.

Like the sound of a baseball game is one of the most beautifully soporific

sort of midsummertime nap things.

That's one of the things we miss now that society's on pause.

But yeah, that would be great to listen to.

What kind of napping meditation do you listen to?

I'll just listen to any napping meditation.

I am not picky.

I'm not good at meditating.

I'm just really looking for something boring.

Let's say you're the co-host of a podcast who's never even heard the term napping meditation.

What are you talking about is what I mean?

Oh, I'm talking about, you know, a basic sort of mindfulness meditation, but it is napping-themed.

So it kind of

has the rhythm of taking a nap and waking up from a nap.

Is it someone saying words to you?

Yeah, there's some kind of weird new agey music playing, and then somebody's saying, like,

oh, go ahead and feel relaxed, or something like that.

Like, oh,

go ahead and feel relaxed.

It's all right to rest every part of your body.

I'm into this a lot.

Check in on your feet.

Are they relaxed?

How do they feel?

Keep talking and I'll do the new AG music.

Bing.

Tighten your calves.

Now, release them.

Move on up to your thighs.

How do your thighs feel?

Check in on them.

Tighten them as tight as they'll go.

Three,

two,

one,

and release.

Feel a feeling of peace sliding into your thighs.

And so forth.

I was trying to channel my inner tangerine dream there.

It's not really New Age, but that's as close as I get.

That was Tangerine Dream's rare a cappella album when they abandoned analog synthesizers and collaborated with Bobby McFerrin.

They did have some sweet

nighttime rooftop sacks in the soundtrack to Blade Runner.

I'm a big fan of the soundtrack of the movie Thief.

Have you seen that movie?

I've never seen it.

Oh, it's so, A, it is such a great movie, and B, such a great tangerine dream soundtrack.

I know.

And I, you know, like, I looked at that.

I can't tell you the number of times I picked up the VHS cassette box of that movie

to peruse a rental back in the day.

Because, I mean, it's Michael Mann, director of Manhunter, one of the greater Annibal Lecter movies.

It's got this incredibly trippy cover to it.

It's got a one-word title, which I like, Thief.

And I saw that it had Tangerine Dream on there, and

I knew I liked Blade Runner a lot.

You know what it came down to, Jesse?

The reason I never watched Thief?

I got no con in me.

I'm not a James Kahn person.

You would be if you watched Thief.

I gotta see it, huh?

I have no other con.

Thief is one of my all-time faves.

I would say Thief is a top 20 movie for me.

If only I had some time on my hands now.

All right, let's get to Ren and Vincent.

Obviously, I don't want to

interrupt or disturb anyone's relaxation habits these days, Vincent.

But I do think that aside from the expense of going through 10 plus pairs of headphones per year,

like he's got to be wearing over-the-year headphones to mash them up that bad, right?

Like, if he's ruining headphones by sleeping in them, I'm really stunned by this ruining headphones by sleeping in them.

I guess maybe

he's like got the cord going to like a hi-fi stereo receiver,

you know, with the big headphone jack.

And so every time he turns over, it pulls and the

stereo receiver wins and the cord snaps or something.

The cord snaps and the headphones fly off his head and through the window.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Out into the fire escape.

And I'm not sure really if this is a safety issue.

Wren has talked about their arm being wrapped up in cords, which I'm sure is uncomfortable.

But unless Wren breathes through their arms, which is possible, you don't know anything about the Knights of Wren.

I am a little concerned about Wren's husband, Vincent, waking up with the cord wrapped around his neck.

That's no good.

But I mean, I do think that this is a time, in general, nighttime should be a time to put aside unnecessary anxieties as much as possible.

And Vincent, you need to acknowledge that this is causing Wren distraction during a time when they also need to put aside unnecessary anxieties and fall asleep and block out the world, as you are blocking out the world with whatever you're listening to on your headphones.

I presume, and I hope it's a Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Maybe you're listening to it right now as you're falling asleep.

So, let me give you this post-hypnotic suggestion.

Vincent,

Vincent, hear me.

This is your master, Judge John Hodgman.

Get cordless earbuds of some kind.

They don't have to be the fanciest, most expensive ones.

Just some basic cordless earbuds

so that Wren can finally get some sleep.

And set your podcast player on sleep mode.

And also, maximumfund.org slash join.

I am your master.

You may now fall asleep.

And dream of me, John Hodgman.

Or of electric sheep, either way.

I think people are going to be looping our mapping meditation and using that, and I hope that they do.

I waive all rights to my a cappella tangerine dream singing.

If Jesse, you waive all rights to your improvised meditation pattern.

So waived.

There it is.

There's justice for you.

Andrea wrote in asking for some advice.

She says, My boyfriend ruined a plot twist in the movie John Wick while I was watching it, even though I kept telling him not to.

Then, instead of apologizing, he told me it, quote, doesn't matter, unquote.

Should I break up with him?

By the way, I bought in-flight Wi-Fi to ask you this.

Oh,

I remember in-flight Wi-Fi.

Wasn't that a time?

Jesse Thorne, you know, remember I was saying I had never seen the movie Thief?

Yes.

I've also never seen John Wick 2.

Three.

Is there a fourth one?

I think there's only three so far, and there's a fourth one on the way.

Maybe it's called John Wick Forthcoming.

Yeah.

Wow.

I've also never seen John Wick 1.

People are still listening to our show, John.

Arguable.

John Wick Forthcoming.

They're all listening in their sleep.

It doesn't matter.

We're their dream friends.

We're but elf cobblers putting together their mental shoes for the next day.

But I've never seen a John Wick.

I've never seen one wick.

I've only seen John Wick 2.

Why that one?

Because

I had half a day of work where I didn't have any appointments, and it was playing at the movie theater right by my house where it cost $6.

Right.

It's a great first-run movie theater that costs $6.

And I was like, I'm going to go by myself to John Wick II.

And John Wick II was great.

John Wick II was awesome.

Everyone loves a wick.

I mean, I'm not bragging when I say I've never seen a wick.

Everyone I know adores these films.

You know, there's a big wiki.

Who's that?

If you look him up in the Wikipedia of John Wick fans,

Lynn Manuel Miranda.

Yeah, I bet Lynn's a big Wickster.

Kind of got mad at me when I said I'd never seen a Wick.

Like, you don't see Lynn Manuel Miranda mad often.

He's known for his ill temper.

Yeah.

He killed my dog.

That's not true.

I know that happens in a wick.

Did I spoil it?

Sorry, Andrea.

Did I spoil the thing that your boyfriend spoiled for you?

I think that's the inciting incident of the original wick, is that a beloved pet is done dirty.

But beyond that, I don't know what the spoiler could be.

So I am perfectly impartial when I say, Andrea's boyfriend, don't spoil things for people, especially if they ask not to be.

It does matter.

It doesn't matter.

It does matter to people's enjoyment of films.

Even though by now, everyone should have seen a wick.

At least one wick.

I agree.

I'm behind the times.

I get it.

Next time you want to spoil a wick for someone, Andrew's boyfriend, email me, hodgman at maximumfund.org.

I encourage you, I encourage you and everyone who needs a little distraction right now to write me with as many wick spoilers as you can.

Like totally ruin this movie franchise for me.

And I don't care whether they are real John Wick spoilers or fictional John Wick spoilers.

I will enjoy, that will make it all the more exciting for me as I sift through the truth and the the falsehood as I embark on my John Wick journey here in Shelter and Place.

Hodgman at maximumfund.org for all your true and fake John Wick spoiler needs.

And boyfriend, leave Andrea alone next time.

You're wrong.

The John Wick I saw didn't even have a plot.

I mean, here's the thing.

I agree with you completely.

I'm 100% on board.

There is merit to his claim that it doesn't matter because I've never seen a less plot-dependent film than John Wick.

It is a pure aesthetic exercise.

And the plot is he needs to get revenge.

That's it.

He has to fight the people that stand between him and revenge.

There's no plot particularly, but I agree entirely.

I would say, though, as long as I'm recommending beautifully executed, tense genre films, a great film in the John Wick, in the John Wick genre, in the Jean John Wick.

Right.

Is there a French version of this movie called Jean Wick?

But another movie that is sort of a halfway point in between Thief and John Wick that I really love and would recommend for in-home viewing is the movie Haywire.

It's a movie starring the woman who was an MMA champion who went on to become the female lead of Star Wars the television show.

And she doesn't really act in the movie.

She just kicks different butts.

And it's directed by Steven Soderberg.

Right.

I was going to say, this is a Soderberg joint, right?

Yeah.

And it is so beautiful and so cool.

And she just makes different faces and then kicks people's butts.

And it's really great.

It's like, I really love a really well-executed, not stupid

action movie.

Okay.

And it is so not stupid and so beautiful and so thrilling.

I recommend it.

Haywire.

All right.

Now,

that's three for three now of movies that I have not seen, and I'm very embarrassed, but I really want to see Haywire.

Nobody send me any spoilers for Haywire.

Send all your spoilers for John Wick to hodgman at maximumfund.org.

Here's a spoiler for Haywire.

She needs to get revenge.

Let's take a quick break.

More items on the docket.

I feel the same way.

Coming up in just a minute on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Welcome back to the Jeff's John Hodgman podcast.

We're in our bunkers this week, clearing the docket.

Jed says this, my wife of 23 years and I attend a few professional baseball games a year.

We like to bring a bag of peanuts in the shell to enjoy.

I remove the peanuts from the shell, eat them, and then deposit the empty shells on the ground by my feet.

My wife thinks this is littering.

She puts the shells back in the bag.

I'd like you to rule that not only can I continue to drop the peanut shells on the ground, but she has to as well.

Jeez, Jen.

My arguments.

They're really a stretch there.

My arguments.

Number one, peanut shells are biodegradable.

Number two, birds can use them to build their nests.

And number three, if the cleaning crew has no shells to clean up after the game, they will finish faster and thus earn less money.

Wow.

I mean,

look, I'm no bird nest expert, so I'm not going to evaluate the second argument.

I have a feeling the peanut shells are not good nesting material because you would think they would need to be kind of long and weavable.

But what do I want?

They're too crackly.

I mean, I wouldn't want to sit in a nest of shells.

Yeah, but you'd have to ask a Boyd.

Yeah, take Boyd's.

But that last argument, I mean, to make the argument that Jet is not causing undue harm by leaving his shells all around, since the cleaning crew is going to clean up the stands anyway, it's just adding to the detritus that they're going to work.

Well,

okay.

But to say that you're helping them by giving them more of your own mouth trash to pick up,

I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Here's the thing, John.

I think we may have found a case where

justice has been stretched to the breaking point through spurious claims.

Well, I was going to ask you, like,

I've not been to many baseball games, so I don't know ballpark etiquette.

Like, what do you do?

We've had some discussions in the past in the podcast about trash at the ballpark.

What is the way that one deals with one's trash at the ballpark?

One leaves one's trash under one's seat.

That is accepted.

Yeah, absolutely.

Rare is the aisle in a ballpark that at the end of the game does not have a pile of peanut shells underneath it.

The floor is made of concrete.

People sweep in and sweep as soon as the game ends.

And I know this from a childhood spent searching the aisles for collectible soda cups at the end of the game.

What was your top cup?

Like, what were you looking for?

Well, I mean, I was a San Francisco Giants fan.

I was over there at Candlestick Park.

I think I'd probably be looking for, it depends on the era, but probably a Kirk Reeder cup, known as Woody, because he looked like Woody from Toy Story.

He had little, little stick-outy ears.

Oh, yeah,

I'd drink a soda pop from one of those cups.

And you're also putting stuff under the seat, obviously, to provide happy and productive employment for all those

stadium employees, right?

You were thinking,

I'm giving them more work to do.

They'll clock out later.

They'll see their own children later, but thank me because they had more work to do.

I feel so strongly that this guy has justice on his side.

Right.

But I also so badly want to punish him for saying

he wants the ruling to be that his wife has to put them on the ground, even though she's uncomfortable with it, that birds need these to line their nests,

and that it's some kind of full employment program like the Works Progress Administration.

Yeah, that's right.

They need these shells to paint their socialist murals later on.

I feel you on this one.

I mean,

on the one hand, he is

admirably Kantian in his reasoning.

Immanuel Kant, of course, being the philosopher who came up with the,

not the prime directive, what do we call it again?

I just out of the tip of my fingers.

The prime directive.

The first rule of robotry.

The categorical imperative.

And I just want to make it clear, I did not Google that.

I had it, I was like, the categorical imperative.

Don't mess this up, John.

Don't mess this up.

And it's like, prime directive?

No.

The categorical imperative, which is that one should act in a manner consistent that what they do should be a universal law, that everyone should do it.

And he is basically, he's kind of Kant in an aggro sense.

He's like, I'm throwing my peanut shells underneath my seat.

I believe that this is morally correct.

Therefore,

beloved wife, you are immoral to gather up your peanut shells and take them outside.

That's what Immanuel Kant would say.

But I think Emmanuel Kant would say, get out of here, you bum.

Like a baseball fan, is that what you say?

Yeah, get out of here, you boyds.

You boids?

That's for the boys, you bum!

That's what Immanuel Kant would say.

She's operating in a similar Kantian point of view, which is that she believes it is moral to take the shells away.

And indeed, if universally everyone did take their shells away, that would leave for cleaner and less work for the people in the stands.

Here's what I'm going to say.

Jed, I will defer to the expertise of my bailiff, Jesse Thorne.

As I have learned in this podcast before, it is customary to leave your trash underneath the seat at the ballpark.

And I hope we will all have a chance to do that again soon.

Jed is correct, or let's say he's not wrong,

in following this custom.

But he has no moral imperative to compel his wife to do the same.

She may do what she considers to be moral in this case.

Neither of them are doing damages to the other.

by following their own moral code in this case.

And I agree with my friend and Bailiff Jesse Thorne that while Jed gets the W

in this case,

his specious argumentativeness

makes me also want to brush him back a bit with a fast pitch of extra justice.

You should have taken the wind, Jed,

and not mouthed off to the ump.

about all your dumb arguments about nests and such.

Next time you go to the ballpark, I want you to test your arguments.

Are peon shells biodegradable?

Obviously, but they're not going to

be nutrients to the concrete.

That's where there's always a thick layer of mulch under ballpark seats.

Yeah, yeah.

They're not going to enrich the soil of the stands.

You're not going to get loam out of them.

I'm not going to ask you to sit around and wait and watch a bird make a nest of your dispensed shells.

But I do compel you, even though I find in your favor, next time you leave the shells under your seat, after the game, go up to a member of the cleaning crew and say, I left all my peanut shells under the seat because I figured if it made you work longer, you would get more paid hours.

Does that sound right to you?

And see what happens.

That's my sentence to you, Jed.

I find in your favor.

But now you have to speak to another human being, a person whose job it is to clean up your trash after you and verify your theory.

If this person says, Yeah, you know what, thanks.

You know, sometimes we get out of here too soon.

Sometimes I get home before it's dark.

Sometimes I have a chance to play with my kids.

And I'm haunted by the fact that I didn't make an extra

$10, $12,000, $7.50 an hour, whatever the minimum wage is in the state.

See what they say.

If I'm wrong, let me know.

You're out, you bum.

Boyds for the Boyds.

I thought your extended baseball metaphors were an inside-the-park home run.

I don't know what that means, but thanks.

Here's something from Gary.

Hello, Judge John Hodgman.

I need your help.

I prefer to eat a big, messy hamburger with a knife and fork.

This allows me to eat without getting cheese and stuff down the front of my chest.

Oh, wow.

That was a real whiplash of descriptive word salad from appealing to disgusting.

All right, go on.

My wife finds this practice barbaric, embarrassing, and disgusting.

She claims the people we're eating with are horrified.

She feels a hamburger is to be eaten with the hands.

Many of today's excellent burgers are enormous and very messy.

Please, Judge Hodgman, send me a ruling at your earliest convenience.

Well, it is almost convenient for me to rule.

But first, I will ask Jesse Thorne,

do you prefer,

and this goes for whatever your burger might be, whether it is a beef burger or a veggie burger or a beyond or impossible or undefinable meat burger or a chicken or turkey or whatever it is.

Do you prefer something with

a, we'll say a patty, a small patty in a compact form, easily held up by the hand, or like a big multi-decker, multi-condiment, multi-layer bonanza of flaves?

Wow, that's a big question, Johnny.

Just so happens that I made myself a cheeseburger for lunch.

Wow.

Today, before we recorded this program, not 45 minutes before the recording of this program.

Well, I wish I had been there.

I made myself

a

four-ounce thin patty extra crust cheeseburger with a slice of American cheese on it.

Yeah.

What is often known as, these days, a smash burger.

Smash burgers.

But that is something that I have come to relatively recently in my life.

I was never a big consumer of fast food

cheeseburgers.

Right.

Just wasn't part of my life until I moved to Southern California and In-N-Out was regularly available to me, which is a dramatic three steps up from

any of the

chains that were available to me in Northern California.

Right.

And

historically, my preference has been for a thicker burger.

I like a medium-rare burger.

I like to have some textural contrast between the outside and the inside.

And

I like big flavors.

I like stuff like grilled onions and blue cheese and stuff on burgers.

But I respect both burgers very deeply.

I've come to really enjoy

lots of Krispy on the outside burger.

And in fact,

made cheeseburgers for my family a couple of days ago and made them with two-ounce patties per the instructions of a friend of the Judge John Hodgman podcast, Kenji Lopez-Alt,

who calls them ultimate Smash Burgers.

Yeah, that's a thin burg.

Yeah, it's like 90 seconds on one side, 30 seconds on the other.

Yeah.

And

it's extra crust, extra cheese, and very tasty.

I mean, you're right in that the style, first of all, a hamburger is not a sandwich.

I won't get into that fight right now.

But a hamburger is a hamburger.

It is its own thing, culturally and gastronomically, in my opinion, which happens to be right.

But the hamburger has diverged.

It has evolved.

There are those who claim, and I'm not going to dispute them, that the hamburger was invented at Louis' lunch in New Haven, Connecticut, which would be a broiled piece of ground meat served on toast

with no ketchup but tomato.

And from there, you move into the roadside stand hamburger, which is what In N Out is the most recent evolution of.

These were foods that were served to go, to be eaten by the hand.

in a car or in a drive-in or on you know on your way.

But then the hamburger started being served in pubs and restaurants.

And I feel like we started to see these massive burgers being served, in my experience, in sort of like in the 80s at

a Joe's American bar and grill on Newberry Street in Boston or whatever.

And they would just get more and more elaborate and ornate and restauranty.

And my feeling is that if you were to deconstruct a big, heavy-duty, restauranty hamburger with

a large bunch of protein and a large bunch of toppings and a large bunch of condiments, and you were to deconstruct that with a knife and fork, you would be within your rights because what you are getting is essentially a kind of

a stacked hamburger-style salad.

And I feel like that's what Gary is talking about.

I am someone who prefers not to eat a lot of bread, but does enjoy a hearty protein with a bunch of condiments on it, and will often order a medium rare cheeseburger in a restaurant and I will pull that thing apart with knife and fork and eat it like that.

So I can't find against Gary any more than I would find against me.

But when it comes to that original iteration of the hamburger, if you sat down in Louis's lunch in New Haven and started eating, I mean they don't have knives and forks there.

You would have to bring in your own knife and fork.

And what kind of ghoul would you be at that point?

If you were to eat an in-and-out burger with a knife and a fork, bun and all,

I think that that would be an insult to the chemistry of what a hamburger is in that context.

Do you disagree, Jesse?

That's where I'm leaning on this.

Do you want to sway me one way or the other?

Do you have a strong opinion that I should know before I bring down the hammer of justice on this one?

I think you're dead on.

I would eat no hamburger with a knife and fork, but I'm not a big fan of knife and fork policing.

You know, I don't care if people want to eat pizza with a knife and fork.

I don't care.

But I do think that while I wouldn't recommend a knife and fork for a big fat burger,

for an in-and-out style burger, for a griddle-cooked thin burger,

it is a little beyond the pale.

Yeah, that's too much.

But, like, you know, I have to say, Jesse, I admire your Brio

because I have not nearly the volume of beard

that you do.

And part of the reason I knife and fork it on a big, tall, thick restaurant slash pub burger is that I'm afraid of walking out of there with special sauce all over my whiskers.

Like, but that's cool.

Like if you can pick up one of those big old honkin' burgers and get your chompers around it and leave your beard pristine or not feel self-conscious, Go for it.

That's amazing.

That is truly terrific.

But I give Gary leave to use knife and fork, and I don't think that he should be belittled by his wife as a reason.

Unless it is, of course, a classic drive-through hamburger.

Let's take a quick break when we come back.

Jesse, Jesse, before we go, I want a little tease.

After the break, I'm going to tell you where I had the greatest cheeseburger of my life.

Ooh, la la.

Let's take a break.

When we come back,

we'll have a case about eating and drinking in the bathroom.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper.

And on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We're clearing the docket this week.

Here's something from Adam.

You don't want to hear about the greatest cheeseburger in my life?

Oh, I thought you were going to work it in.

Yeah, no, I want to hear about this burger.

What's the story?

The place I had it before it was closed, Venice, Italy.

Where did I get it from?

McDonald's.

I never eat fast food.

I'll occasionally get something from In-N-Out.

I appreciate all the harm that the McDonald's Corporation, in particular, has done

for our planet, never mind the good that they've done for public radio.

It's all in balance, but I was in Venice

and I had eaten so much good food, but so much same food, because it's basically just proschute

and cheese and and okay pasta and pretty good pizza that people eat with a knife and fork over there food is not what venice is slash was slash will be about

when it revives as we all hope it will but i passed by this mcdonald's this one day and our walking arounds

and i was like i felt this perverse that uh edgar allan poe calls it the imp of the perverse this like the feeling you have when you're standing above a precipice and you just want to jump off I was like, I need to get the cheeseburger.

I haven't had one of these in years.

I'm going to get the cheeseburger.

And I resist it, but the next day we walked by it again.

I'm like, I'm going to go in and get it.

And boy, was it so

itself intrinsically fine, but contextually so exciting and transgressive and nourishing.

I think about it every day.

I think about the people of Venice every day.

I hope you're doing okay.

And

of course, I ate it with my hands.

All right.

Here's something from Adam.

I'd like a ruling that drinking and/or eating in the bathroom is gross.

I'd also like an injunction against my wife, Laura, from doing so.

For years, I've walked into the bathroom to find coffee cups, bottles of kombucha, and other drinks left around the bathroom sink.

That's gross.

What makes it grosser is she'll continue to drink from them even after they've been left in the bathroom for hours.

She doesn't think there's anything wrong with this.

I'm less inclined now than I may have been a few months ago

to

question anyone's

sense of germ awareness.

I won't even call it

germophobia.

Germ awareness.

I mean, we've heard many cases in the past.

about from people who believe that bathrooms are essentially atmospherically unclean and that anything in there

even though that is a place of washing and hygiene, anything that's in there for any period of time has to be thrown away or whatever.

And perhaps we are rightly more attuned to germ theory now than we were before.

I mean, not every bathroom is an airplane bathroom, which is used by many people and is full of aerosolized poop and pee with every flush.

I mean, to me, it's fine to bring a cup of coffee into the bathroom.

Just as it's fine to keep a glass in the bathroom that you use to rinse your mouth out after a toothpaste.

But this idea of leaving it in there for hours and then drinking from it later, perhaps it's just the way our bacterial culture has changed or our viral culture has changed over the past few weeks.

But this is now starting to gross me out too.

Jesse, what do you think?

As you know, I don't drink alcohol.

I'm always impressed when I hear about someone drinking a beer in the shower.

Well, it's good for your hair.

I just,

and especially because I don't know, for some reason, it feels

it, it's maybe because I first heard of the idea from comedian Kyle Cadain, who's a friend of mine, a wonderful comedian, a wonderful man.

Doesn't have a lot of hair.

I don't think he's a champion.

He does not have a lot of hair.

Very short hair.

But

yeah, I mean, I would never do it,

but

I'm hesitant to prohibit someone else from doing it because

it's funny, like I am having

a similar but also dissimilar reaction to current conditions, which is to say that I feel like I am working extra hard to be

thoughtful of germs, but also working extra hard not to have a big emotional reaction about germs.

And I don't know that it is actually bad in any meaningful way.

But I mean, I wouldn't bring a club sandwich in there.

Yeah, no, I wouldn't either.

And I would say with regard to having a beer in the shower, that's a lot like having a McDonald's cheeseburger in Venice.

It's just the feeling of I'm doing something I shouldn't.

And not

because it is unhygienic to drink a beer in the shower.

The shower is the place where, I mean, you know, you're getting clean every second in that shower.

Everything's being washed away.

It's really more the idea of like,

I'm drinking alcohol in a place I'm not supposed to, and often out of a glass container in a tile shower, none of this should be happening, and it's a delight.

And while I normally do not drink beer at all,

now I'm feeling like a shower beer is in order for me at some point soon.

But yeah, I mean, I feel that

there is something disgusting about Adam's letter.

Let me revisit it.

Like an injunction against my wife, Laura, I've walked into the bathroom to find coffee cups, bottles of kombucha, and other drinks left around the bathroom sink.

Aha!

There is something very wrong here.

We do not know

whether Laura's kombucha

is being invaded by cooties during the time that she leaves it absent for Adam to later find.

But we do know she is leaving her junk behind for her husband to later find.

Don't leave your junk behind for someone to find.

Don't leave half empty cups of coffee and kombuch or whatever else is going on or a half-finished club sandwich in the bathroom.

That is intrinsically gross.

Even if you are a pre-Renaissance physician and you don't believe germs are real, that's That's gross.

That's labor left behind for someone else, Laura.

It's disgusting.

And whether or not you take that food out of there and drink it again, that's between you and your God or whatever.

But don't leave your food and drink behind in the bathroom.

That's gross.

It would be gross for any room.

And for some reason, especially now, in the time of Corona, it's extra gross.

Don't do it.

Don't do it.

I find in favor of Adam.

I do have one piece of cultural context that I I think is appropriate to mention.

Speaking very broadly, I think that for, at least in my experience here in the United States,

I think

many women have a different relationship to the bathroom than do many men.

I think not only is there the classic sense that a public bathroom is a social space for women in a way that it is not for men.

But more specifically, a private bathroom is a place where many women are doing many things other than

their number ones and number twos.

Whereas for many men, the bathroom is really a place for

using the potty, brushing teeth, maybe washing their face or hands.

I hope by now they're washing their faces and their hands.

Yeah.

And I think to the extent that Adam's wife Laura is bringing, for example, a coffee cup into the bathroom, it may be because she needs her morning coffee and she expects to use the bathroom for preparing for her day much more than Adam does.

And so I'm glad that this ruling

provides some leeway for her to do these two things that she needs to do in the morning, whether it's

hair or makeup or whatever other prep she has to do for the day that Adam likely doesn't have to do.

Adam may find

Laura's bringing coffee and kombucha into the bathroom distasteful for a lot of reasons.

Maybe the ones that he says, or maybe he's just using germaphobia as a cover for the fact that her bringing in a cup of coffee announces she's going to be in that bathroom for a long time.

And that bugs him because he wants to get in there too.

It's a very highly contested piece of territory in any house.

But I agree, absolutely.

Laura should feel free to bring in her coffee, her kombucha, you know, maybe

a chafing tray full of hot hors d'oeuvres.

I don't know.

All I'm saying, Laura, is don't leave your garbage behind you.

This isn't a ballpark.

Adam is not being paid by the hour to clean up your peanut shells.

Get your junk out of there when you're done.

You know me, John.

I'm a bear if I don't get my morning booch.

Your morning booch for kombucha?

Yeah, I gotta get my morning booch.

What's your favorite flavor of kombucha?

None.

No

thank you.

You can keep your mother spore to yourself.

There goes our kombucha advertising dollars.

John,

I think because I'm a native of the city of San Francisco, a city of many hippies and artsy types, at least when I lived there, I had experience with people making kombucha in like 1992 when it really involved buckets.

And like, it was basically the same as making like compost tea.

Yeah, I forgot you're an old school booch brewer.

Yeah.

And right from the start, I was against it.

I think if I had come in on it, it comes in a bottle and it has a flavor, I might have been on board.

But basically, the kombucha that I was reared on was a family friend's toilet hooch.

And

it was basically hippie pruno.

And

I am not on board.

Yeah.

But you know what?

You're not Laura, and be glad you don't have to live and bathe with her.

So we also heard from a listener named Samantha Samantha about a past episode.

I teach English online to students in China.

Being a longtime listener of Judge John Hodgman, I've developed the habit of asking people, what did you do today?

And I almost always ask that question to my students.

I have now had several parents leave feedback on my lessons saying they love that I ask that question because A, it appears more thoughtful than the standard, how are you?

And B, it gives them the opportunity to practice conversational English.

So thank you for giving me a small but very useful way to interact with my students.

Oh, wow.

Thank you, Samantha, so much.

Of course, I have to give my thanks to the memory of the very sadly departed Lee Kay Abbott, who was my

writing teacher in the early 90s.

He taught me how to write short stories along with Donald Faulkner and Tom Verada during a summer writing program I took at Yale University.

Lee K.

Abbott wrote many, many, many great short stories and books of short stories, including The Heart Never Fitz It's Wanting.

Please look into him.

He's an incredible writer.

He passed away last year at an acceptable but still too young age.

And one of the things that struck me was when I called him at one point just to say hello, because I love talking to him.

And instead of saying, how are you, he said, Hey, John, what'd you do today?

And suddenly I had a story to tell him because I did something that day.

And it's been such a great conversation conversation opener.

So, I'm so glad that that's been helpful to you, Samantha.

And Jesse, I believe that Samantha actually sent in

a clip of her doing her instruction with her student.

So, maybe we can listen to that now.

Hi, Amy.

Hi.

How are you?

I am happy today.

Me too.

So happy to see you.

What did you do today?

It is someone go to my house.

It is a boy.

A boy came to your house today?

Did you guys play?

Yes.

What did you play?

Two...

Two boys go to my house.

Two boys came to your house?

What did you do with the boys?

Hide and seek.

County and the boys hide

did you find them yes oh you're so good at hide and seek can you find me

where am i

you you are

under your

hands

you are

you are behind dino i'm behind dino you found me

good jummy me

Yay.

Yay!

Look, we're all having a hard time.

People in China, people all over the world.

It's hard for us to talk remotely to one another.

It's something that I hope we don't have to do.

I hope we don't have to be constantly talking.

remotely to each other, Jesse.

I hope that I can see your nice face and yours, Jennifer Marmor, in person within six feet soon.

But I am really, really, really, really, really grateful that we have this podcast and all of this long distance technology to bring us these moments like Samantha shared with us that are just give us hope and cheer to move on.

So thank you.

The docket is now clear.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

We're on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

Make sure to hashtag your judgejohodgman tweets, hashtag jjho, and check out the maximum fund subreddit to discuss this episode.

Submit your cases at maximumfund.org/slash JJHO or email hodgman at maximum fun.org.

Send in your wick spoilers.

We're going to have all new episodes of Judge John Hodgman every week going forward, whether you like it or not.

We've got a lot of live episodes and a couple that we recorded before the big news, and we'll be making some new docket episodes.

And if it comes to it, we'll try and figure out how to get the courtroom going virtually.

And we're so grateful that all of you are sticking with us in this tough time.

We're thinking of you and we're very grateful for you.

Yep, we're very proud to keep you company.

Thank you.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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