Live from the London Podcast Festival 2017, Part 2

Welcome to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week's episode was recorded live at the London Podcast Festival with musical guest Barbara Rossa.

Let's go to the stage at King's Place for some London justice.

Our case, Scarf

Matt brings the case against his friend Woody.

Matt left a scarf at Woody's flat several years ago.

Woody still hasn't returned it.

It's become a beloved joke between the two of them.

Now Woody wants to never give it back.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise, and metaphorically, you don't have to actually do it.

As Judge John Hodgman literally rises

and enters the courtroom and delivers his obscure cultural reference.

The The scarf came about after Jim bought a wagon load of wool.

He gave it to a woman who was so excited that she started knitting it and just didn't stop.

When we went to her room, it was so full of scarf we couldn't get in.

She offered to cut it up, but Jim wanted to keep it.

End quote.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in.

Matt and Woody, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God, or whatever

yeah I do sure do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite his preternaturally warm neck

I do I do very well Judge Hodgman it's true I have heated neck meat all around do not need a scarf uh Matt and Woody you may be seated which one of you is Matt I am and which one of you is Woody

let the record show that Woody looks like woody

I don't even know why I ask

for an immediate summary judgments, and one of yours favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom?

We'll start with Matt, since you don't obviously attract attention to yourself as much as Woody does typically.

What is your guess, Matt?

I don't know, so I'm going to say a song by the Mountain Goats.

Always the same guess within this courtroom.

Always a fair guess within the court of Judge John Hodgman.

A song by the Mountain Goats.

Any particular song?

Called The Long Scarf?

The Long Scarf biblical reference?

Yes, that one, yes.

All right, very good.

It's interesting that John Darnell of The Mountain Goats has taken to writing prose songs.

He'll do anything.

They're called novels, by the way.

Yeah, got it.

All right, what do you...

I put that into the guest book.

What is your guess?

I also don't know, but I'm going to say an unreleased Alice in Wonderland sequel.

Unreleased Alice in Wonderland sequel.

Yeah.

Well, we'll put those into the guest book and I'll run that through my computer.

Oh, all guesses are wrong, you guys.

How could you, how,

where are we?

Where are we right now?

London.

Yeah.

In what country?

The UK.

All right, what's the most, most famousest piece of culture, scarf-related piece of culture in the UK?

And also, it's me talking to you.

Doctor.

Doctor.

What?

Doctor.

Doctor Who.

Doctor Who.

Come on, you guys.

To be fair, Judge Hodgman, that would be pretty off-brand for us.

It was so on-brand that I almost didn't do it.

I was expecting both of you to yell, that's Tom Baker talking to the Guardian on the 4th of November, 2013,

telling the history of his famous super long scarf.

I just assumed you would skip right over answering the question into correcting me and saying, he's called the Doctor, not Doctor Who.

Shall I?

Oh, geez.

He's called the Doctor.

And then, as soon as you guys yelled that out, I'd be like, oh, okay, okay, but who was the person who knitted the scarf?

Yeah.

Does anyone here know?

Begonia Pope.

Great, crazy English name.

Now, speaking of which, Woody.

Yes.

Let's get down to this case.

Woody, you are in possession of Matt's scarf.

I am.

Where is the scarf currently?

It is on my person.

It's currently on your...

Let the record show that if Woody is indeed wearing this scarf, it is not in a normal scarf wearing

part of the body.

But I am glad to know that it is here.

You have it ready to display as evidence.

I do, yes.

May I ask you, please, to produce the scarf?

I am producing it now.

This is beginning to sound like a magic trick.

It's not in his pocket, a random person from the audience.

Okay, there is the scarf.

Let the record show that it is a gray plaid scarf that is not as long as Doctor Who's scarf, which apparently was 24 feet long by the end of the show.

Not a joke.

All right, would you please put that scarf around your neck where it belongs?

Yes.

All right.

Yeah, Matt, how does this make you feel?

Matt, do you recognize this scarf?

I do.

Do you acknowledge that it is originally yours?

I do.

And now we are trying to decide whether it will be yours again.

Correct?

Yeah, correct.

Correct.

Matt, how long have you known Woody?

12 years.

And where did you meet?

University.

In In York.

In York?

All right, and what did you study there?

Sociology.

Very good.

And what did you study?

Thievery?

I studied archaeology.

Archaeology?

All right, very good.

A couple of ologies.

So, and around this time, is that when the scarf got took during university?

No,

much later in 2013.

All right, I think.

And what was the circumstances by which the scarf left your person and went on to Woody's?

Woody and his girlfriend were hosting a board game evening.

Board game.

Again, off-brand for us.

I think it was Battlestar Galactica.

It could have been Battlestar Galactica.

Battlestar Galactica, the board game.

Does Judge John Hodgman make a cameo appearance in Battlestar Galactica, the board game?

Yes,

in

the fourth season of that game that no one watched.

I don't think they've made that expansion yet.

No, bet you they won't.

As a supporter of Battlestar Galactica and neutral on board games, I have to say that's the worst way to experience Battlestar Galactica in a board game.

A lot of trench and political commentary in your board game.

All right, so you're playing BSG the game.

And

I just left it.

I forgot to put it on.

You put it on, yeah.

Yeah.

And when did you realize you had forgotten it?

Probably fairly soon afterwards when I was getting cold on the way home.

And

it was Woody calling you to say the scarf is mine now.

See you at King's place in

how many years?

Five, four, four years.

Is that what happened?

Yeah, no, it just kind of it kinda uh he told me he'd left the scarf at my house and I said I'd bring it next time I saw him and I didn't and then I didn't again and then I didn't again.

And then he kind of di stopped to stop reminding me of that.

When did you start forgetting the scarf on purpose?

Uh

I think the first few times were not on purpose.

Yeah, you genuinely were a human being for a while.

Yeah, I trust.

You've got to maintain the facade.

And then describe to me the moment you're like looking at that scarf going, ah, I'm not going to get that back.

I enjoyed the number of tech I think it was probably I was looking back for my text and then you know, you're on an iPhone you can go back and and if I'm allowed to brand,

you can go back and uh you can see.

You know, like all the text, half the text were about the scarf.

And I enjoyed that.

I enjoyed that.

Most of our interactions on the phone were about the scarf.

So I wanted to continue it.

Were you enjoying torturing Matt a little bit?

Yeah.

Yeah, we're good friends.

Every bully thinks that they're having a good time

when they're throwing their shoes at someone else.

Believe me, I know.

Sorry, Elliot.

Matt, do you feel like this is part of the dynamic of your guys' friendship in general?

It has become so, yes.

It wasn't before.

No.

Before you guys were just colonial warriors together at Battlestar Galactica,

you were allied against the Cylons, but now you're on opposite sides.

Yes.

Did you see this coming?

Did you see Woody turning into a villain?

No, but it's happened more since.

How so?

Give me some examples of his villainy.

Well, I forgot my umbrella at his house.

Wait, will you please say that again?

I left my umbrella at his house.

Oh, I thought you said I forgot my own brother at his house.

Former brother.

And he's just texting you pictures of your brother

in funny places around the house.

You'll never get him back.

And then his wife took it to work, and she left it at work, and then she left the firm.

So now Woody and his wife are both gaslighting.

Is there anything else that Woody has of yours, aside from your dignity,

that he refuses to release to you?

I don't think so.

No.

All right.

Woody, what pleasure does this give you?

Most of the time, little to none.

I forget it most of the time.

You're only a part-time bully?

Yeah, sure.

I've got fingers in other pies, bullying other people.

But it's every once in a while when Matt comes down to my house, as he's leaving, he remembers the scarf.

And then there's like a frantic five minutes where he has to try and find it before he has to get the train.

You're at his house or an escape room.

When you say a frantic five minutes, when he has to try and find it, is this because you've established a new weird sick game?

Like, well, yeah, you know what?

It's somewhere in here.

If you can find it in five minutes, you can have it.

But if you can't, I'm going to release this vicious hound on you.

You know, like he'll say, oh, I'm just going to go to the loo before I have to leave.

And then, you know, you hear him searching around, then he'll burst in saying, Where is it?

But I'm confident to let him do that because I know

it's very well hidden.

By the way, not anymore.

Why don't you just say to him, I'm going to go look for it?

Why do you say, I'm going to go to the loo?

And then start muttering to yourself, where is it?

Where is it?

As though this is some bad radio drama.

I think it's a bit more, there's a bit more to it than that.

I don't just start raiding his house because his wife would really,

I wouldn't be invited around again if I started doing that, I think.

I'd sort of ask Woody,

I'm leaving now, you can give me my scarf at this point.

And he'll just say, no, you're never having that back again.

So then I look in the cupboard and it's never there.

Woody, do you have a special hiding place for Scarfie?

Yeah, yeah, I do, yeah.

All right, hang on one second.

Matt, cover your ears.

Can you whisper to me where your secret Scarfy hiding place is?

Yeah, it's really high up on a high cupboard, and I know he's not that tall, so

you can't see it.

Matt, you didn't hear that, did you?

No, I didn't.

All right.

A lot of this is going to hinge on whether or not I reveal to you the incredibly elaborate hiding place

that Woody has found in his apartment, what you call flat, right?

Or do you have a freestanding home?

Flat, flat, flat,

where your scarf is being hidden.

Woody, do you believe that property is meaningful?

Yeah, I believe it.

Or do you believe that all scarves belong to all people?

I mean, there's an argument to be made there.

Yeah, you know, we all

have to point out that the only things that have been

redistributed, shall we say, in your favor, are scarves and umbrellas, and basically those things belong to all humans.

You're only ever the temporary custodian of an umbrella before you leave it behind someplace.

Marx and Engels established that.

So I'm making your case for you here.

Yeah.

Yeah,

I'm getting benefit from it.

Probably more benefit from the kind of the joy of knowing that Matthew doesn't have it

than Matt would have from having a warm neck.

Yeah.

And you're not, do you use the scarf on any regular basis or do you keep it?

Not at all.

Sure.

about the the trips you keep it in your highly secret shrine the only the only thing i do of it is i take it with me when i go traveling and i take i try to take photos of me wearing it

across the country the only time you wear it is when you go abroad and you take pictures of yourself wearing it and send them to matt to torture him yes

I have to say, Matt, this is pretty awesome.

I mean, there are a lot of scarves in the world.

You could be buying a scarf a day.

And frankly, I'm just going to point out, the listeners at home don't know this, but this scarf is kind of

terrible.

That was going to be a point I was going to bring.

That's a thin ratty scarf that is now many years old.

I mean, it is,

if anything, if it had been left in your possession, and you had been using it regularly, you probably would have thrown it away by now.

If it weren't for Woody keeping it in his special protective shrine, in a very secret place in his apartment, flat, excuse me.

It might not even exist anymore.

If I may, I think people like what they like, and I like my scarf.

How dare you?

That is settled law within this court, unless I overturn it.

What if what I like is you not having your scarf?

You see why these are fake laws instead of real laws?

Because they are unenforceable.

What would you have me order if I were to find in your favor?

That Woody

give my scarf back to me, and if I ever forget anything at his flat ever again, he doesn't start doing this again.

That's, first of all, unrealistic, and

second, too humane.

I mean, if I were to agree with you

and believe that you were wronged, I would be inclined to afford damages.

I mean, you've been four years.

Did someone do the math?

17 minus 13 is four, right?

Okay, good.

Sorry, someone please do the maths.

But the record show, the greatest round of applause we've ever had in England

was when we pluralized maths.

What is the plural of maths?

Mathses?

You didn't think of that, did you, England?

USA.

USA.

Judge Hodges.

I can't join in on that.

We've got nothing to brag about.

Last time we were here, you guys had just Brexited, and we're all sad.

And I was sad too, for you.

And I was like, oh, I hope we take this warning from England.

Guess what?

We're not a nation that takes warnings.

We're a nation that takes dares.

Can we do worse?

Apparently so.

What were you going to say, Jesse?

I popped up.

Oh, on our way here from the airport, you know how every residential building in London has a plaque indicating the seven legendary persons who have lived there?

Yes.

One of them said that

from 1780 to 1820 in this.

Old timey times.

Yeah, in this site lived the American patriot Benedict Arnold.

Was there a comma between American and patriot?

It was amazing.

A bold claim.

Make sure to point that out to me.

I'm going to do something to you.

Granted, we Americans don't know anything about American history, but that's still like an inventive gaslighting technique.

We all saw the Brady Bunch.

We all know who Benedict Arnold is.

Exactly.

Where were we?

Oh, yeah, Woody and Matt.

Hi, how are you guys?

Had a little break there?

Did you get a little breath in?

Good.

So, what I was saying to you, Matt, is

if I find in your favor, I would say, you know, you've missed out on four years of scarf ownership and use.

You could probably demand some damages.

Is there something that Woody possesses, don't say his wife,

that you would like to hang on to for four years yourself?

Be creative.

Be, dare I say, vindictive.

And please show your work.

No.

The outcome of this would be I would stop being the butt of this very particular joke and would gain the upper hand, and that's all I want.

Let me say this.

Oh, I'm sorry, were they having a little moment I was about to talk over?

Let the records show that they looked at each other in a misty-eyed way.

Woody was beginning to recognize the error of his ways and appreciate that his friend had been hurt for the past four years rather than amused by this weird gaslighting.

And now he probably should do something to make amends.

And Matt was beginning to see the humanity within Woody.

He was like, he was turning a villain back to the light side.

And I was just going to say something like,

I was going to say something mean like this.

Matt,

you need to take vengeance.

Let me explain something to you.

You don't want to be the butt of the joke anymore, right?

You don't want this bully to bully you anymore.

And the way you're doing it is like, I'll get some surrogate dad to tell him to stop it.

That'll change his mind about me.

Can I make a suggestion, Matt?

Have you ever read an amazing business book called The Art of the Deal?

So, Matt,

if you want to win this case,

I will order Woody to respect you as a human being.

And

my order will be unenforceable.

But I will make that order on your behalf.

I'll write it down on a piece of paper that you can show to him, and then he'll grab it out of your hands and crumple it up and throw it in the fire and go, ha ha.

But I also order you.

Let the record reflect that when you said that he would say, ha ha, he said, ha ha.

That's how bullies talk.

Ha ha.

But

I will order you, pre-order you,

to think of

something

to take from him that you can put in your own weird shrine, your own weird, mysterious hidey hole.

It's on a high shelf in the cupboard.

I'm just going to tell you now because he can move it at any time.

Even if I find in his favor, he can find another spot.

But I'm just going to say, don't just look at the low shelves.

Really get up to the high shelves.

Is there something, Woody, is there something that you would loathe to part with?

I own a very bad scarf, so...

Not this one, a different one.

You have a different scarf?

Yes, I think that could be a suitable.

A scarf for a scarf?

Yeah, sure.

Blood for blood, eye for an eye.

Sure.

A scarf for a scarf makes the whole world warm, as it says in the Bible.

In the kingdom of the cold neck, the one scarf man is king.

I don't like that scarf suggestion.

Come on, you know.

Come on,

I want you to get in touch with your inner evil Woody.

Matt, we have come from America to teach you a thing or two.

The best thing I can think of is the waistcoat that Woody got married in.

Matt, I like it.

Highly personal.

Almost self-parodically English.

His favorite jar of clotted cream.

The waistcoat he got married in.

And what would you do?

Go on holiday and take pictures of yourself wearing it?

Maybe taking a mud bath somewhere?

I'll do what you order me to do with it.

Oh, Matt.

Woody, how would you feel if I ordered in Matt's favor and you had to give up that waistcoat?

I'd be, yeah, I'd be really.

Isn't it called a wusket over here?

Wiscott.

A wisket.

Worcester.

A wooster?

A wisket shear coat?

I'd be very lory.

I'd be very put out by that.

Yeah, I'd be upset.

Also, I'd be weirded out because I would

arrive in a whole get-up and then specifically leave just

without the waistcoat.

You wouldn't be weirded out by it.

You're already thinking about how you're going to surrender it.

Yeah, that's tough.

You are theatrically minded.

Yeah, I'd be upset.

You'd be upset.

I am excited by the idea of Matt taking the marriage wesket

to countries countries around the world, taking pictures of himself and possibly posting them to some sort of

Wescott cuckoldry subreddit.

Woody.

Now you have to, I am incredibly intrigued by this proposition of Matt's.

And I also have the decency and property rights on his side as well.

So this is your chance to make your final plea for why

I should side on the side of evil and bullies and let you keep that scarf to continue torturing your friend.

Go.

I think I have two, maybe three main points.

I think one, I think.

I'm glad you specified main points.

I think there are a lot of subscribers.

Main points.

A lot of sub-points.

More sub-points than the appendixes.

I think, you know, it comes off.

I come off very badly in this situation.

You stole a scarf!

You stole a scarf!

But Matt is my friend, and I think this is a bad scarf, and I think there are other scarves out there for him that would suit him better.

That would suit his colouring better, you know?

Let me see the scarf on Matt.

I'm going to see the scarf.

Oh, Matt.

This is Matt.

Don't get too used to it.

It's pre-warmed.

Is this the first time it's touched your skin?

This is about as erotic as it gets in English.

Well, sure, about Wesket cuckled through so branded.

This is the first time I've seen the scarf since Woody sent me the photo from his safari honeymoon.

I have to say it suits you.

Take it off.

I have not made a judgment yet.

All right, so you're saying that scarf...

Yeah, that's right.

That's right.

Really, really do it up.

Let the record show that Woody really made a meal of putting that scarf back on.

So

you're saying that the scarf doesn't look good on Matt.

Wrong.

Second main point.

So this started just being me quite forgetful and forgetting to bring the scarf.

Yes.

And I continued to.

Quite forgetful, I remember.

When I started taking the scarf on whichever trips I was going around, I forgot to take it out of my bag to take photos of it.

So I just took it around with me in the bag, and nothing else happened.

So there's a lot of missed opportunity for

you.

I don't feel that way.

There were a couple of years when you weren't taking pictures of it to send him to make him feel bad?

Yeah, I was just moving it around with me.

You just weird.

Yeah, you were just transporting the scarf.

Yeah.

So I think I need to develop.

You haven't finished the prank yet.

Would you ever return it to him?

Could you set a day and date now where you feel that this prank and this bullying could come to an end?

Yeah,

I think so.

What day and date?

I think.

Make sure to put the day before the month.

I think.

And make sure to say lift instead of elevator.

I think

probably

if you ever get married, Matthew.

Oh.

An emotional ultimatum.

If

it doesn't matter either way, but you know that would be a suitable

gift.

Matthew, is there a special is there a.

Would you get me anything else?

I could engrave the scarf, maybe.

Before I go into my chambers to consider all of the emotional blackmail that is happening,

Matt, is there a special someone in your life life currently?

No.

You all saw him with that scarf on.

He'll be around here in King's Place after the show.

So this is all hypothetical, the idea of your getting married sometime.

Yes, Judge.

Look, I'm not bullying you.

I'm just getting information.

If there was a special person in your life and you're going to get married in five months, maybe, then I could allow this to go on.

You see what I'm I'm saying?

But basically what you're saying is that there's no one in your life whatsoever.

The very idea that you might get married sometime in the future seems like a hopeless hypothetical.

And that the only thing that is required at this point to make you whole is you just want Scarfy back.

Fair surmise?

That's fair.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go into my chambers very slowly and painfully.

I'll think this over.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Okay, Matt, what is it going to take to get you to stand up for yourself?

If not here on stage tonight, just in life.

Oh, cold.

I just mean it's very cold in my chambers.

What do we got to do to light a fire under your butt?

Fire!

Fire!

Sorry, I started a fire in my chambers because it was so cold.

After tonight, I'm going to have a long think.

Is that the English word for take action?

Woody, I have a sort of less important question for you.

You guys sometimes have what you call fancy dress parties for Halloween and other occasions, right?

Yes.

What Owen Wilson characters have you gone dressed as?

I mean like get you a lawn Wrangler's jumpsuit and let's do this thing.

What is it he says?

What is it Owen Wilson says?

I'm not helping.

That was a turning point, ladies and gentlemen.

How do you feel about your chances in the case, Matt?

50-50, I think.

Oh, emboldened.

Woody, how are you feeling?

I came in pretty confident, but

we noticed.

Massively reduced.

Yeah, no.

I'm enjoying the scarf whilst I can.

By the way, I like that even the world's most handsome, enormous, confident Englishman still talks like Hugh Grant.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

Here I am back from my chambers.

I'm going to have a long think.

Even hearing that through the very thin walls of my chambers, I'm like, that is a huge breakthrough.

I'm glad that I could be here for this.

But I would encourage you both to have a long think.

I had to have a long think once.

Once I had a long think.

Now, you guys may know that there's another maximumfun.org podcast called The Flophouse.

It is my rival podcast

because they are more popular than my podcast.

And they're my friends.

Stu Wellington, Dan McCoy, Elliot Kalen.

Elliot Kalen

used to be a writer, indeed was the final head writer for The Daily Show when Jon Stewart was there, my colleague, and a very sweet, small, bullyable nerd.

Now,

as soon as I met him, I'm like, I'm going to bully that nerd.

What made it funny is, I'm also a nerd.

I've been sucking on an asthma inhaler since I was born.

You heard my old Dr.

Huvian thing at the top of this thing.

This is going to be some incredible meta-bullying.

It was going to be nerd-on-nerd violence.

It was going to be fantastic.

So every now and then I would go through the office and I would stop by his desk and he would have some Iron Man figure or whatever on his desk and I'd walk by and go, that's nice.

It's mine now, nerd.

And I'd take it.

I would walk away.

The minute I was outside of his office, I would drop it in the hallway floor and never look at it again.

This was so much fun.

Just knocking over piles of comic books on his desk for no reason and not even saying a thing to him.

I was like, oh, now I get it.

Now I know why there are bullies.

It's an incredible feeling.

And it culminated one day

as we were getting ready to go to taping.

I had changed into my show clothes, suit tie, shoes, and I'd taken my sneakers off and I was walking through the hallway with them.

And I saw Elliot and I said, hey, Elliot, and I threw my shoes at him.

No further comment.

No more joke than that.

Threw my shoes at him.

And

as they hit his shoulder softly, thunk, thunk, I was so happy.

And then he turned and looked at me, and the hurt in his eyes finally reached me.

This has been going on, by the way, this has been going on for months.

And I realized, wait a minute,

I'm an on-camera talent.

I used to be on television, you guys.

And Elliot, even though he's one of the smartest, funniest people I know and a very successful writer on the show, is not on-camera talent.

And therefore,

there is a power differential.

He has to laugh at the jokes I make,

even if they involve me throwing things at him.

He has to go, uh-huh,

which I thought was him going, hey, great.

But now I realized, no,

he is not having a good time.

Only the bully is having a good time.

And unless everyone is having a good time, no one is having a good time, would he?

Do you see the parallel?

I can appreciate it.

Look at your friend, Matt.

Is he not the very picture of Elliot Kalendom?

I see Elliot before my eyes now.

Elliot,

I'm sorry, Elliot.

Let the record reflect the judges having a vision.

I apologize, Elliot.

You're so sweet-natured, and you never fought back, and you never put me in my place.

And so I was emboldened, and

I felt like the jocks used to feel when they would call me bad names, and it was a wonderful feeling, and I got addicted to it.

I wish I could take those shoes back, Elliot.

And also, Elliot, for all of that, I'm really angry that your podcast is more popular than mine.

It makes me want to throw my shoes again, but I'm not going to.

Whoa, where am I?

England, Matt, Woody, we're still here?

Sorry.

As much as I enjoy the joke that you have been playing,

taking the scarf, lazily playing, by the way.

There are a lot of times you took the scarf and didn't take a picture of it.

You were just moving it from place to place.

As much as I enjoy your hiding of the scarf, as much as I enjoy, on a sick, bullying way, your enjoyment of this game, it is quite clear to me that Matt does not enjoy it at all.

He wants Scarfy back.

That's all he's ever wanted.

And your suggestion that we set a day and date, such as when he gets married,

no, that was the most bullying thing of all you could do.

That was straight up mean.

So, even if property rights mean nothing in this life, and with scarves, obviously they don't.

Scarves belong to no one, they belong to the universe.

But in this case, that scarf belongs to Matt.

I order you to return it to him this very moment.

A.

B.

Let the record show Matt has a scarf on and he is adorable

and available.

B.

Get that wesket ready.

Oh, yes.

You are going to have to to surrender that weskin

to Matt

for a period of no longer than four years.

Matt is too much of a sweetheart to be taking it on Safari and taking pictures of himself in it, although you are emboldened and empowered to do whatever you want with it, except destroy it.

You have to be able to return it in good order in four years years when it's time for Woody to get married again.

Until then, the Wescot is in your care.

Hide it carefully.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is on.

Matt and Woody, ladies and gentlemen.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgin podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at maximumfund.org, and they are all your favorites.

If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic.

Just go to maximumfund.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

Did you know that most of the dishes served at Tom Clicchio's craft restaurant are made in, made in pots and pans?

It's true.

The Brace Short Ribs, Made In, Made In.

The Rohan Duck Riders of Rohan, Made In, Made In.

That heritage pork chop that you love so much, you got it.

It was made in, made in.

But Made In isn't just for professional chefs, it's for home cooks too.

And even some of your favorite celebratory dishes can be amplified with made-in cookware.

It's the stuff that professional chefs use, but because it is sold directly to you, it's a lot more affordable than some of the other high-end brands.

We're both big fans of the carbon steel.

I have a little carbon steel skillet that my mother-in-law loves to use because cast iron is too heavy for her, but she wants that non-stick.

And I know that she can, you know, she can heat that thing up hot if she wants wants to use it hot uh she can use it to braise if she wants to use it to braise

it's an immensely useful piece of kitchen toolery and and it will last a long time and and whether it's uh griddles or pots and pans or knives or glassware or tableware I mean you know Jesse I'm sad to be leaving Maine soon but I am very very happy to be getting back to my beloved made-in entree bowls all of it is incredibly solid beautiful, functional, and as you point out, a lot more affordable because they sell it directly to you.

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That's m-a-d-e-i-n cookware.com.

Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Judge Hoshman, this seems like the perfect time for a bit of music.

I agree.

Can we hear some music, please?

Introduce them, Bailiff Jesse.

Absolutely.

You've heard his songs on How I Met Your Mother, on Ray Donovan, and Elementary.

He's performed with Jose Gonzalez.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the stage Barbara.

Barbara, ladies and gentlemen.

Take

my hand.

If it gets you through, then it's alright.

Take

my hand.

Take

your time

till it relates to you, then it's alright.

You break my mind.

But if your view

is of golden valleys,

with the sense of regret paralyzes,

then you'll never know how it feels.

And if you

never challenge what you see,

the goods of life will start flashing,

and you'll never know how it feels

to have hope.

to have hope

to have hope

to have hope

to have hope

to have hope

to have hope

if you could replay this

when would you stop to untie

your head

and if you couldn't say it

How could I ever

underscore

stand

like you never

with

Like you never

with

And it would break your heart

if you knew

that this is all about you.

Oh, but you carry on regardless.

But we've already started

the new bloodline.

Born to the birds,

born to the guns,

born to the ghosts

surround you, son

Unfortunately,

you were born at all

into these heartache comes,

but into a warrant world,

it'll all

fall away

to the oceans below.

But I'm gonna hold you now.

I'm gonna hold you now.

I'm gonna hold you now

in the grip of the red side.

I'm gonna hold you now.

I'm gonna hold you now.

I'm gonna hold you now

till I can

born to the boys

born to the girls

Born to this thread of light

that connects us all

it'll all

fall away

to the ocean's below.

But I'm gonna hold you now,

I'm gonna hold you now,

I'm gonna hold you now

in the grip of the reptile.

I'm gonna hold you now

I'm gonna hold you now

I'm gonna hold you now

till I can

I'm gonna hold you now

I'm gonna hold you now

I'm gonna hold

you now

till I can

Thank you so much, Chief.

Barbarossa, ladies and gentlemen.

BarbarossaMusic.com.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no.

No, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show, Let's Learn Everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lollum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Do we have more justice to dispense, Jesse?

Well, here's what I was thinking, Judge Hodgman.

And tell me if you're on board with this.

Nope.

Okay.

Well, then I'll just be quiet and leave it to you.

No, I'm on board.

Let's go.

My best idea is this.

We spent like half an hour settling those two people's case.

Yeah, and by the way, I knew what I was going to do in two minutes.

Yeah.

Our time is very valuable, and there's a lot of injustice in this country.

They don't have their own judges.

So what if we took what little stage time we have left and plowed headfirst through all of the remaining injustice in this entire nation.

In the entire nation.

In the entire nation.

These three injustices.

The entire independent non-European nation.

Sorry.

You go.

It wasn't his idea.

So why don't we do a little swift justice?

Right, we'll listen to a couple of cases really quickly and we'll plow through them and my justice will have to be a little bit less probing and a little bit harsher.

And now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the stage Giles and Lorraine.

Giles

and Lorraine.

Please be seated.

You are automatically sworn in.

We have a few minutes on the clock to hear your case.

Who brings this case against whom?

Giles has indicated it is he.

Go, Giles.

This is my wife, Lorraine.

Hello, Lorraine.

How are you?

So nice to meet you.

I've heard a lot about you.

Giles introduced you just a moment ago.

My name's Judge John Hodgman, and I'm going to hear his accusation of you.

I'm so sorry about this.

I'm not sure if you know that this is going to happen today, but it's going to happen and it's going to happen hard.

So let's go.

Giles, hit it.

What's your beef?

She hates sneezing.

Was that a sneeze?

Because that would be a distracting sneeze.

I'm allowed two sneezes in succession within an unspecified period of time

before

per year.

It's not yet been specified, and this is 24 years we've been married.

Oh, congratulations.

Thank you.

I'm allowed to sneeze in this amoebus time.

And I feel like

are all of the cases tonight just going to be obscure forms of BDSM?

Well,

she does threaten physical violence.

She's threatened physical violence of political violence.

Physical violence.

When we first met, I had hay fever.

Yes.

She proudly boasts she beat it out of me.

When you first met,

this was date.

Lorraine, was this date one?

Well, we met in February, so it was that summer, yes.

I see.

So when you were just getting to know each other.

Yes.

So you met in February.

You said, this seems like a nice guy.

He doesn't, he's...

Got a totally normal mucus response.

I could see myself spending a few years with him so long as he never sneezes.

And then comes the summer, and all of a sudden, he's a mess.

He's got stuff dripping out of him.

A chew, achoo, a chew, and yet you married him anyway.

Well, by then, he no longer had the hay fever.

Did you beat it out of him?

Yes.

How did you.

I love stories of homeopathic medicine.

What was your therapy exactly?

Well, it isn't physical violence, obviously, because that wouldn't be good.

It's just looks and threats.

Mutual understanding that if he does it again.

again.

Let the record show for the listening audience that she gave quite a nasty look

after if he does it again.

So emotional terrorism, essentially, is what you're talking about here, Giles.

Very much so.

All of our friends know of this, and it extends to strangers as well.

What do you mean if strangers sneeze around her?

We commute in and out of London regularly.

We both live outside of London and work inside.

Sure, work.

So we travel on trains quite a lot.

Oh, yeah.

If there's anyone.

You don't have germ tubes.

Yeah, germ tubes.

Yeah, we travel on those.

And if anyone sneezes or sniffs regularly,

she's really making me want to do those things.

She

dock

stare daggers.

I mean,

I think you have actually offered tissues on occasion.

Offering tissues being the most potent act of aggression in the United Kingdom.

Thrust tissues.

Sure.

Lorraine, can I ask you, is this about the sound of the sneezing, the idea of the sneezing?

It's the sound.

It goes right through me.

Uh-huh.

You know, like nails on a blackboard.

You write into a lot of podcasts.

Is it the sound of any sneezing or Giles's in particular?

Any human.

Any human.

Do you acknowledge that Giles is a human?

Who has his own rights and agency and

ability to live his life as a full human being or no?

There's a reason she says human.

Why?

Because.

We have a cat and the cat sneezes are cute.

Sure.

Almost encouraged.

You know what a cat, you know what the sound of a cat sneezing is?

Encouraged.

Meow.

That's a cat sneezing.

Right?

Are you a germophobe?

No.

No, so you don't care about that.

I could sneeze in your face right now.

As long as it was silent, you wouldn't mind.

So what do you sneezing is not necessarily known as a voluntary act.

No, no.

If you have a sneeze and you go one sneeze, and then you go two sneezes, and you know you've got a third coming, what do you do?

You run out of the room so you don't get yelled at?

I will try and suppress further sneezes.

Yes.

But I mean, there's something visceral about sneeze.

Sometimes it's good to sneeze.

I enjoy sneezing sometimes.

I have actually, on occasion when she's not been there,

I've actually tweeted and Facebooked about having a sneezing fit as a joyous occasion.

Lorraine, do you not see how you have warped the person you love?

Oh, I think he was always warped.

He's now binge sneezing

after dark.

This is not, you're not supposed to enjoy it.

It's supposed to be an involuntary bodily response.

But the thing is, I can't rule on this until I know know just how terrible your sneezing is.

I have here some packets of pepper.

Now look,

this is not going to make it better for you,

but we're both going to do this.

Can I just check one thing first?

What's that?

Can you just hold your arm out?

Why do you want it?

Can I reach him?

Oh, do you want to see if she's going to punch you?

Yeah, don't worry.

Bailiff Jesse Thorns, prepare to restrain the witness.

Are we going to do this at the same time?

No, I need you to do it first.

Let the record reflect that Giles knows exactly how to.

If only he had an album cover and a razor blade,

he'd be good to go.

It's almost like

Giles has inhaled pepper into his nose.

It's not happening.

It's not happening.

It's not happening.

So, first of all, let me point out that Giles is putting pepper onto his hand in a very practiced way.

Like, maybe sometimes in the dark 3 a.m.

of the soul, he's done this before to get a good sneeze fix in.

And it may be that it's not happening right now because

you're inured to it.

Your immunity is too high.

Maybe you need another packet.

There you go.

I've got one more for me.

Oh, by the way, Lorraine, don't cough around me if you don't mind.

It's disgusting.

One of the problems, Judge Hodgman, is the nostril becomes insensitive, and you have to find new nostrils, sometimes even between your toes.

Yeah, that's right.

Come on.

I don't want to kill you.

All right.

I've covered him pepper.

I appreciate that people don't like what they don't like.

Oh my god, this poor man is.

I'm truly worried that I'm going to be reading about you in the newspaper tomorrow.

Nice man dies of pepper poisoning for podcast.

Lots of peas and explosive.

My nose is on fire.

I thought pepper was supposed to make you sneeze.

Maybe we should have a cat in here.

Well,

I think you've been tortured enough, Giles, both by me and by Lorraine.

Can I just add one thing?

Yes.

I would feel better if he did blow his nose when he sneezes to make an example that he's trying to stop it

and that

when he says sorry,

he doesn't look at me in such a way that I know he's not sorry.

You're trying to stop it.

It's an involuntary human reaction.

And you're asking the...

He's only leering at you and is sorry because you've transformed him into a sneeze perv

He needs therapy now

You need to go to a licensed professional who'll just let you sneeze all day until you get it out

I'm gonna allow you a third sneeze.

And I

you know what?

Sneeze until you don't need to sneeze anymore, but stop going on weird sneeze binging and Facebooking about it.

You need to get healthy again, sir.

Lorraine, I'm sorry, but you know,

be considerate and get out of the room if you know it's gonna happen.

But, Lorraine, you gotta let him.

Like, how do you feel about hiccups?

Are those thumbs down too?

No, no, they're fine.

All right, Lorraine, it sounds like you need to shut your pie hole when he opens his sneeze hole.

I promised you, Giles, that I would share in your pain.

So I'm going to do what I can here.

Welcome to the stage, Bradley and Suzette.

Hang on, I'm still over here huffing black pepper.

I don't need to sneeze.

That's weird, right?

I think maybe this pepper is stale.

All right.

We're happy to be here at King's Place, although they need to up their condiment game

at the Waldorf salad station.

I'm sorry, who are you again?

Where'd you come from?

I was putting pepper in my nose.

Say your name, sir?

Bradley.

Bradley and Suzette.

Suzette.

Bradley, could I ask you to just speak right into the microphone?

Move it towards you.

Here, I'll help you.

Thank you.

Well, sir, do you want some pepper?

No, thank you.

I'll just sprinkle it on you.

Woo!

Jesse Thorne, black pepper.

That's the secret to a show.

Got to do that right before a show.

I'm going to be sneezing and peppering

in my pre-show ritual.

Should I be doing this to my racehorses?

If you want to win.

Bradley, Bradley, and Suzette, what is the nature of your conflict?

I actually wrote to you about four years ago.

Yes.

And it was a docket.

Oh, and I ruled on it before.

Yes.

I believe I remember this this has to do with the olympics does it not it does it does it has to be and tell me and tell me what tell me what your complaint was four years ago four years ago i um my partner she was a member of the games makers uh the volunteers is that uh a group of people who play battlestar galactica on

all right Let the record show for the listening audience that Suzette has taken off her outer layer of clothing to reveal some some kind of sporty coloured shirt that the audience recognizes because they're normal people, but which is meaningless to me.

Suzette, what is a games maker?

So a games maker was one of the volunteers for the Olympics and the Paralympics.

And we were everywhere in London.

We were not just at the stadium, we were in the train stations, in the airports, wherever you saw us.

And we were bringing joy to everyone who was coming to the Olympics.

So in 2012, when the Olympics and the Paralympics came to London,

you wore that shirt on the tube and just collected standing ovations.

Were there any other responsibilities other than wearing the shirt?

No, I do remember the bin men.

They shook my hand when I

went to work.

Having your hand shaken by a binman,

I don't think counts as a professional obligation,

but it's a very cheering thing to have happened to you.

I danced a lot and I said, welcome to the Olympics, quite a lot.

Yeah, I see the cheer coming through your voice, but I don't see the dancing.

Show me.

So far, you could just be describing an episode of Peppa Pig you saw.

Well, so I was in security,

so

I would like greet everyone and say, Welcome to the Olympics.

Come this way.

And I'd have a...

And I had an umbrella, which had a kind of extension thing so I could go woohoo

and kind of frighten the children, but they loved it really.

Excuse me, thank you for

giving me my microphone back where you did not go woohoo.

Would you please do it correctly?

Woohoo!

Whoa, thank you very much.

Now, remind me, Bradley, what was your complaint several years ago about Suzette when you wrote in to me?

That as much as I love her,

after six months of boring me with it, was enough.

And I would want you to order her to stop.

To stop dancing and woohooing and wearing the shirt and everything else.

She was dancing and woo-hooing.

She just

waffled on about it.

And

what did I order?

Shh, easy mob.

I will pass judgment here, not you with your pitchforks and your snakes that you brought with you.

What did I order at that time on the dock?

I think you called me a monster.

And

you were right behind her, and she should enjoy life, and I should stop.

And Judge Hodgman, you were at the time moved in part by the Olympic spirit, right?

What is that?

It's like something about sports and

not getting paid.

Woohoo!

Major life for infrastructure.

And your complaint

is different now or the same?

It's sort of the same.

Yeah, she's still going on.

It's no longer six months later.

It's five years.

Thank you for doing the maths because I didn't want to.

Oh,

believe me, I've been counting.

So

how often do you wear the shirt about, Suzette?

Not so much the shirt, but I wear the watch and the shoes, and I quite like wearing it on the tube, hoping someone will notice.

But

I've incorporated it all into my work as well.

You wear it on the tube sometimes, sometimes hoping someone will notice?

I do that with my wardrobe from the PC ads that I used to do.

Sorry, Apple ads, Apple ads.

I'm still in wardrobe, you guys.

I still got the costume.

Call me.

Has the Olympics ever called you to say, you know, you need to stop doing that?

We've moved on.

We've done a whole Olympics since then.

We've got another one coming up.

Not yet.

Do they ask for the return of their property, their shirt?

No, it's in a very, very special drawer.

Oh.

It's a what?

It's in a very special drawer.

It's a special drawer?

Yes.

It's higher than the other drawer.

Is it on a high cupboard shelf?

It is, and he has to pick it down when I want to have a look at all my stuff and go through it all.

And how often does that happen?

I've tried to restrict myself.

It's probably only once every six months.

And is the pleasure looking through all of that stuff, or is the pleasure making him get it for you?

No, no, it's looking through it.

I absolutely love it.

Here's the thing:

you're a very cheery person.

You did a little dance on stage, you went woohoo.

And Bradley, you seem like a nice guy

just let me get into it

Bradley you're you're a human being

let the record show he goes a little bit that's true

and and you're not woo-hooing and you're not dancing and and you've got a you've got a very phlegmatic look upon your face you're here hashing out the same issue that you had you know five years ago

and you're and and you're not a dancing type

and you're still angry about this same thing it's it's like for instance just recently

there was the World Olympic Championships held

at the London Stadium where they did the Olympics

and we're watching the athletics and most people if you're watching the athletics you're watching the athletics not Suzette Suzette is watching to see what everyone all the volunteers are wearing

and to see how different it is from what they were wearing in London 2012.

She likes what she likes.

She doesn't want to, I don't want to watch the athletics either.

I'd much rather watch the jaunty volunteers, what they're doing with their umbrellas.

That I can understand.

But that's just an example of it.

That gets under your skin.

Yeah.

Are you a

sport?

fan?

Yes, I am.

I see.

And so

it upsets you that she's not as interested in sport as you are.

Oh, no, no, I don't mind because I can't stand the Olympics.

So

do you not consider the Olympics sport?

I'm working really hard not to say sports, you guys.

I think someone once called it two weeks of gym.

Can I just say that during the London Olympics, I flew to London to see Judge John Hodgman listener Donna Vicalis compete in the modern pentathlon and as I sat in the crowd watching Donna circle the stadium intermittently stopping to shoot a laser gun

I found myself bawling in the audience so moved was I by the Olympic spirit which as we covered previously is about sport and finding new things to do with fencing venues

It was one of the most emotionally powerful moments of my life, in all sincerity, and it happened primarily because of your wife.

Oh no, we're not married.

We're only

partners.

I'm waiting.

Are you saying

I know that you've been together for at least five years.

How long have you been partners?

28 years.

28 years.

And

you're waiting for her to become uncheerful before you.

Yep.

Would the record show he nodded?

Yes.

Suzette, what is the bond that you have between you when you obviously you are a ray of sunshine and he is a downpour of gloom?

Actually, he makes me laugh every single day because he is 10 times funnier than he's coming across here.

Whoa!

I never knew sunshine could be so passive-aggressive.

I can tell that you, Bradley, you have a deadpan sense of humor.

Yeah.

Yes.

You tried that thing about calling the Olympics gym.

That was a good shot.

What else?

Would you ever ask him to be different than he is?

Slimmer.

Yeah, slimmer fitter.

All right.

I mean, to be fair, Suzette got a bang and bod.

My only, here's the thing, I'm glad we're revisiting this.

Let the record show that Jesse Thorne and Suzette are going to elope.

Should have put a ring on it.

I know.

Too bad, Bradley.

You should have.

Your wife, you should have.

No, there's no wife swapping.

You don't have a wife.

This just ends with you at home watching real sport on television, like I guess probably darts.

Is it darts or dart?

I am glad that we're re-litigating this, however, because A, it's really nice to meet you guys in person.

B, you're both adorable in your own ways.

But B, also,

this is much longer on.

And I gotta tell you, Suzette, this GamesMaker shirt you're wearing, it's getting a little ratty.

It's starting to look like Matt's scarf.

You know what I'm talking about?

I wonder if there is an event horizon beyond which you're wearing that shirt and dancing around with an umbrella is going to be a little sadder rather than happier.

Like me walking around the Daily Show studios with my old Daily Show jacket that's falling apart, going, I used to be on the show, you know.

Do you see that as being possible?

Is there a time when you foresee retiring this shirt?

Yes, because I want to volunteer for more Olympics.

So when I get those uniforms, then this can go and.

What is your plan?

Where are you going to go next?

Well, I'd quite like Tokyo, but France is not so far.

And then Los Angeles would be good as well.

All right, you can stay at my place.

Here is my decision.

You mentioned, is there anything you would like Bradley to change about himself?

Slimmer fitter.

Slimmer fitter.

Oh, fitter.

We didn't discuss the fitter.

Sometimes they go hand in hand.

I will say this, first of all, preliminary ruling, you are not a monster.

You're a very deadpan

sport fan who is

very devoted to Suzette, though not completely yet.

We'll see what happens.

We'll see what happens in the future.

Suzette, you're a wonder.

I enjoyed your dancing very much.

The court of Judge John Hodgman is always going to decide on happiness and dancing and enthusiasm, even if you are shaking your head.

But I will order this.

You lose 35 pounds, that shirt goes in the garbage.

Judge John Hodgman rules.

Ladies and gentlemen, Bradley and Suzette.

Our thanks to Mike Brady, Aaron Campbell, and Hilary Lazar for naming the dispute Scarflaw.

And thanks so much to the litigants for joining us on stage and sharing their cases with us.

Barbarasa's latest single is called Griptide.

It's out now on Memphis Industries Records.

He's working on a new album that's coming out in 2018.

Visit Barbarasa, B-A-R, B-A-R-O-S-S-A, dot com for music, tour dates, and more information.

Our thanks also go out to the staff at the London Podcast Festival.

This episode was produced by Jennifer Marmer.

She had help from Nick Liao.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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