Live From Turners Falls, MA 2016
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This week's Judge John Hodgman was recorded in front of a real-life audience at the Shea Theater in Turners Falls, Massachusetts.
Welcome to the live taping of Judge John Hodgman tonight at the Shea Theater in Turners Falls, Massachusetts.
As the audience knows, Jesse Thorne had to leave to have his goiter.
Lanced and sucked.
We sent out a call for disputes, and I, your guest bailiff Monty Belmonte, will bail up with the judge John Hodgman for these disputes here at the Shea.
We have a great show planned composed of Western mass-themed justice.
So, shall we get to it?
Let's bring out our first set of litigants.
Please welcome Matthew and Mary Kate to the stage.
The case.
May it please the shorts.
Matthew brings the case against his wife, Mary Kate.
She gives him a hard time when he wears a bathing suit or running shorts to sleep.
He thinks this is perfectly fine.
And would like for her to reserve her judgment.
Who's right?
Who's wrong?
Only one man can decide.
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.
An uncouth dresser, a student wearing a football jersey top, a pair of cut-off shorts and leather sandals, a typical example of uncouth style.
Simply slipping into a pair of Bermuda shorts is no guarantee that you will look stylish.
Strut in a brisk and confident way to complete your style.
What can a man wear that is superior to the combination of an Oored button-down shirt and a pair of Czech Indian Madras Bermuda shorts?
I ask you, summertime, fun time, guest bailiff Monty Belmonte.
Is there an answer?
Do not answer.
Instead, swear them in.
Matthew, Mary Kate, please rise, as you already have,
and raise your right hands.
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, boxers or briefs or speedos or whatever?
I do.
I do.
Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling even though he wears a burkini to bed every night?
I do.
I do.
Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.
Matthew and Mary Kate, you may be seated.
For an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I I referenced as I entered the courtroom?
Jason, no, what's your name, Matthew, right?
I apologize.
Matthew, you have been brought here against your will by Mary Kate, so you have the option to guess first or to make Mary Kate guess first.
What are you going to do?
I'm going to pass to Mary Kate.
Pass to Mary Kate.
Pretty typical move.
Mary Kate, it's up to you.
What are you going to guess?
I'm going to guess that it may have been a runway intro on Saved by the Bell.
Runway intro on Saved by the Bell.
Enter that into the guest book, Monty.
It goes in the guess hole.
By the way, everyone should note that Monty Belmonte is also wearing a wonderful hat.
And.
That's because I'm a frontier bailiff and goiter lancer.
People who are listening to this on the podcast edition can merely imagine our hats.
Think for Elle Williams and happy.
For me.
Please draw pictures of the hats you think you are wearing, send them in.
You will get no prize, but I will be pleased.
All right, we heard Mary Kate's guest.
Matthew, what is your guess?
I won't be able to produce a specific name, but I'm thinking some sort of men's how-to-dress
fashion etiquette style pamphlet.
That is not a guess because it's a description of something.
Right.
And can you, even though
you don't know the answer, can you come up with what a thing like that would be called?
How to dress.
What if the first word in it was take?
No, sorry.
No.
I'm telling you to guess something, anything, that begins with the word take.
Take this off.
Take this off, by the way, is the rather, that is the companion blog to Jesse Thorne's Put This On.
It's the erotic companion.
It's Put This On
nighttime.
That may be registered in the guest hall as well, but now that I look them over, all guesses are wrong.
But oh, Matthew, you were so close.
You got take.
That was amazing.
I really thought you were going to get it.
Those are actually captions from a book called Take Ivy, which is an amazing book, which you must all get immediately.
I'm buzz marketing it, I get nothing from this.
But in 1965,
four
Japanese
advertising guys, a photographer and a fashion designer, came to the United States to take candid photographs of dudes at various Ivy League universities to document their style.
It was one of the earliest examples of creep shots.
They just snuck up
on these incredibly well-dressed young men as they went about walking across their quads and basking in their incredibly white male privilege
and dressed in some of the most beautifully made preppy clothes of all time.
Take Ivy is published by our neighbors down in Brooklyn, New York.
Powerhouse Book was reissued in 2010.
I encourage you to look for it because it's really great.
But you're both wrong, so we have to hear this case.
So let's hear it, Mary Kate.
What is the problem with your friend Matthew?
First of all, are you married?
We are.
And
you actually cohabitate?
We do.
Okay, great.
And here in what town?
In Greenfield.
In Greenfield, Massachusetts.
Jesse Thorne is making a list of references right now.
And Greenfield, of course, is
the neighboring metropolis.
Absolutely.
Which, in the extended DVD of my comedy special, Ragnarok, I described as a shithole.
And that's why so is Interner's.
I just wanted to put that out there
in case you were going to start judge curieling me by saying he can't judge me fairly because he's biased against Greenfield.
I later retracted it and I apologize.
And Greenfield, I like Greenfield very much.
I know it very well.
What street, what specific address do you live at?
I will not disclose that information.
Very well.
And what do you do there in Greenfield, Massachusetts?
I'm a writer and an editor.
A writer and editor for a publication or a website or something?
For many things, as is the way today.
You are a freelance human.
Yes.
However, my main publication is Edible Pioneer Valley Magazine.
Oh, yeah.
Fantastic.
Be a local hero.
Yes.
That was a reference.
You guys, come on.
Now, I understand.
Your reference tired out.
Reference exhausted.
All right, so that's marvelous.
And Matthew, what do you do?
I am a high school English teacher.
Oh.
I am married to a high school English teacher.
I don't know whether it's a man or a woman.
I've been searching for this person my whole life.
It could be you.
I got amnesia ten years ago, and all I remember is a high school English teacher.
Do you remember marrying me at some point?
I don't.
Okay, well, then the quest goes on.
In the meantime, you have a penchant for sleeping in shorts.
Very occasionally, yes, absolutely.
All right.
Ooh.
I heard an mmm.
I will.
Spousal mm
sustained.
I will hear what you have to say.
I would argue that it is not occasionally, and it is not just shorts.
It is at least, I say twice a week, Matthew says not.
And these aren't just shorts or boxers or, I don't know, pajama short type things.
This is a swimsuit or running shorts.
A swimsuit?
A swimsuit.
Is it like one of those
old-timey 1920s swimsuits?
Sadly not.
Those full-body swimsuits.
You curl your mustache into a handlebar and you put on your straw boater and lie down for a gentle nap in the past.
Lift ginormous dumbbells into the air.
If the winter's cold enough, that's a great idea, though.
I appreciate that.
All right, let me, so, but you have, you are not denying that you have worn a swimsuit to your marital bed.
Absolutely not.
No denial.
And the other shorts that you are accused of wearing to bed are like running athletic shorts?
Running shorts constructed in a very similar way to the bathing suit.
Yeah, I mean, it's basically the same thing.
Yeah, right.
And on the nights that you are not wearing these things, what are you wearing?
Other shorts not meant for swimming.
All right, let's get down to it.
General bedtime wardrobe from Matthew.
T-shirt, some sort of cotton pants.
Right.
Not a rash guard?
No rash guard.
No.
No.
Not a parka
or a shell of some kind?
No, sir.
Okay.
So a t-shirt and some variety of short pants.
Correct.
And
how large is your variety of short pants that you are turning to your swimsuit and your running shorts in the rotation?
I'd say there's probably two pairs in the regular rotation.
How many shorts do you have, sir?
That's
four, four pairs.
Four.
Yeah.
And how many nights do you sleep?
All of them.
Mary Kate, have you ever purchased a pair of pajamas for your husband?
He can buy his own clothes.
That's about all you can say about a high school English teacher.
He has actual like, you know, pajama long pants, you know, the standard like plaid, whatever, flannelly.
He's got those two, right?
And I don't know that you have four pairs of shorts.
I think in that four is included, the bathing suits and running shorts are included.
Yeah, no, no, I understood that he was talking about two.
Okay, so you have one pair of Bermuda shorts, one pair of seersuckers, running shorts,
and then a swimsuit.
Do you ever wear them all to bed on the same day?
No.
You have pajamas, or what your wife calls pajamas.
Correct.
Pajamas.
I'm about to call this whole thing off.
Easy out there.
We are in disputed territory in Western Mass, the pajama-pajama line.
It's like the Red Sox Yankees thing.
What do you say?
Pajamas?
Pajamas, right?
Yes.
What do you call
scallops?
Scallops.
Not scallops.
That'd be ridiculous.
I don't even know what you're talking about.
What do you call the sister of your husband?
I mean, your sister of your husband.
What do you call the sister of your mother or father?
The sister of my aunt.
Right, yes.
Okay.
It's a quiz show all of it.
Where are you from?
I'm from Jersey originally.
Oh.
Easy.
Oh, Western Massachusetts.
She's from here now.
You probably all moved here, too.
Wait a minute.
Yeah.
There are no native Western Massachusettsians.
They're just white people from away.
Before you boo Mary Kate, let's find out where Matthew's from.
Maybe that's worse.
Matthew?
I grew up in a town called Saugus, Massachusetts.
North shore of Boston.
That's right.
It's kind of the jersey of Massachusetts.
I'll give you that.
But Mary Kate,
he is a Commonwealthian.
Yes, it's true.
So he automatically gets a little extra consideration from this court.
I apologize.
Hilltop Steakhouse.
Is that in Sagas?
Oh, yeah.
Absolutely.
See, I can buzz market Sagas.
Waylus.
I was just about to say.
Sad day when that closed.
For those people listening to this podcast of the live Judge Sean Hodgman from Turner's Falls, Massachusetts, I presume I'm only speaking now to people who are from Massachusetts because the rest of the people have turned it off.
But thank you for staying with us, Commonwealthians of Massachusetts.
Matthew, you own pajamas or pajamas.
Why don't you wear them?
So really what it comes down to is when the regular sleeping rotation is dirty, it's being laundered, whatever,
the swimming shorts serve as a bad.
It's being laundered.
They're downstairs and I'm too lazy to go get them.
Right, but I mean, like,
you could say, when I have put them in the wash, or some mystery person is washing my clothes.
No, I'm typically washing my clothes.
Absolutely.
You'll take credit for it then.
Good.
So, yeah, when the normal clothes are out of the rotation, I will sometimes default to the swimsuit in the drawer, and it's comfortable.
But not after you've gone swimming.
No, never.
Like, do you ever go, where do you go swimming?
I actually don't know how to swim.
Next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast,
there is an obvious lingering question.
So these are more
aspirational swim trunks?
Yeah.
Acquired through various means that I honestly can't quite recall.
You don't know where these, where the swimsuit came from?
Possibly my brother, possibly my brother-in-law.
You wear your brother-in-law's swimsuit into your wedding bed.
Thank you.
Not twice a week, once a month at the most.
Oh, no way!
Are you kidding me?
I will allow the spousal no way to sustain.
Mary Kate, are you accusing your husband of lying?
Absolutely.
Why would he lie in front of all of his Commonwealthian peers?
What does he have to hide?
How often is he actually wearing the swimsuit?
The swimsuit specifically.
Okay, actually, all right, if we're just saying the swimsuit, because I group these all together in my mind in one thing, because A, they're not pajamas, and B, like texture and all the other stuff that's wrong with it.
So the swimsuit alone, I'll say
once every 10 days.
That's pretty close to once a week if I'm doing my math right.
I'll give him like maybe not always once a week.
And your objection to it is what?
Is it on the principle that it is not designed for that use?
Is it on the principle that it may or may not have belonged to your brother?
You mentioned the texture.
Is it on the principle that it is weird and slick feeling when you attempt to cuddle up with your husband?
Lay it all out for me.
Yeah, multiple of these things.
So
it's not what you wear to bed.
That's weird.
You know, like that's a weird thing.
Did you know you were marrying a weird dude?
Okay, I did
because this story goes actually
so like one of the very first times that we slept in the same bed together and just slept in the same bed you know dating blah blah whatever I'll I'll
I'll mention that my children are in the audience okay
it's clean we just slept in the same bed it was really did you do it
we did not do it because I'm thinking this might be a great time for my children to learn what doing it is.
Well,
when Mary, Kate, and Matthew love each other very much,
but if you're not occasionally put on bathing suits,
And the net acts as a barrier inside the men's bathing suit.
Okay, first time you guys slept chastely together.
Yes.
When you were dating, you were on one of those nap dates.
Yeah.
No, it was like, you know, like got late, was still there, whatever.
Oh, climbing to bed.
And there was no doing it, in part because he was wearing jeans in the bed.
This was before you were married?
Yeah.
So you had a chance to get away.
I know, I know.
He's got a lot of other good qualities.
Matthew, I'm going to ask you this straight up.
Do you sleep in your clothes?
No.
To speak to that point, I like to remember it as we were newly together in a farmhouse in Amherst, beautiful setting, and sitting up late into the night talking and just sort of...
There's a lot of pride among the micro-communities of Western Mexicans.
Just sort of adorably drifted to sleep and happened to be wearing my jeans.
That's really what it was.
Okay, except for the...
Well, wait a minute.
What I need to get to the bottom of this because I I need to know whether this was a planned sleep or a casual fallen asleep in the middle of an incredible meet-cute rom-com situation.
Because, was this a situation where
normal people would be changing into pajamas or pajamas, Mary Kate?
Pajamas.
Jim Jams.
Hmm.
What were you sleeping on?
You were in a farmhouse.
Was it a bale of hay?
It was not a bale of hay.
A bale of hay?
It was what Matt used as a bed at the time, which was...
It was a futon.
A futon.
You were living on a futon
in a barn.
Were you a migrant laborer?
Oh, no, I forgot.
You're a high school English teacher.
I forget.
Never mind.
Of course you were.
Of course you were.
Lucky you weren't living in a shed.
It was a house.
Yeah.
But it was a farmhouse.
Yes, correct.
On a futon.
Yes.
And Mary Kate had come over.
You guys were going to pop open a bottle of wine and watch a DVD
or something.
What was the date?
I don't know if we've ever been on a date.
Have you ever met before?
Just answer my question.
Why were you in his farmhouse, Mary Kate?
Because we were entering, it was the, we were, what's that word, English teacher?
Coitis.
No.
No, no.
I'll explain that to you kids later.
We were not entering Coitus.
We were starting a relationship.
Dude.
It was.
Just tell, I don't care about the phase.
Specificity is the soul.
Making out.
Yeah, I know, but that's not.
I'm not looking for those details.
So what?
What?
You came over for dinner?
Did you come over to watch...
Why were you in his house?
What was the ostensible reason for being there aside from Coitis?
It was a.
Do you remember?
No.
I mean, it was a date, but like, we didn't have, you know, because it's cheap to go to your house and not to somewhere else.
So, what did you do?
Did you sit there and listen to record albums?
Did you
play cards?
What was the record?
We didn't play cards.
We surely listened to music.
We like sat on the roof, you know.
You sat on the roof?
Oh, yeah.
Of the farmhouse.
Yes.
Roman.
Looked at the stars.
Of course.
Fantastic.
Now we're getting somewhere.
And then at some point, Matthew turned to you and said,
you know,
I own a futon.
Would you like to see precisely how uncomfortable it is?
And then
Mary Kate was like,
yeah, sure.
Should I put on some soft clothes?
Should I put on my pajamas?
Pajamas?
And Matthew was like, no, it's just sort of a come-as-you-are situation.
Question, Merry Cake.
Yeah.
When Matthew fell asleep in his clothes on the futon,
did you change into other clothes to sleep there?
No.
So what is the point of this story?
The only reason I did not change into, I wasn't planning, I know your kids are here, but
I wasn't planning on sleeping in my jeans.
Children, pay attention.
You were not planning, oh, you were not planning to fall asleep exactly.
Yeah.
Right.
I thought we'd be sleeping in something else, but not the clothes we had been wearing during the day.
Right, because you had bought special outfits of some kind.
Costumes.
Yes.
Right.
But it was such a tiring night staring at the stars that you fell asleep.
And he slept in his jeans.
And then you woke up in the morning and you looked over and you saw his jeans and you were like, oh my God.
Is that right?
Has he ever slept in his jeans since then?
Yes or no?
It's a simple question.
I mean, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say no.
Matthew, do you ever go to bed at weird hours?
No, pretty early, consistently, nothing else.
Do you guys go to bed separately or together?
Does one of you stay up and watch Netflix all night long and then come to bed?
I'm always to bed earlier.
You are always to bed earlier?
Almost every time.
And so you come to bed and you see him lying there in his swimsuit going, ugh.
Get out of my bed, Aquaman.
Well, it's even worse because, you know, it's dark, so you don't actually even see, and then you go and you get in bed and you snuggle up, and then, you know, and then you feel that it's a bathing suit, and you're like, oh my God, why are you wearing a bathing suit?
I believe you have some evidence you would wish to enter into consideration.
So now, also, I want to just say there is another bathing suit that mysteriously went missing.
There was another bathing suit.
Yep, that's not included.
That you attempted to bring.
Yep.
Okay.
Was it another one of your family members' bathing suits?
What are you entering into evidence?
I am entering into evidence this pair of running shorts.
Okay.
Summertime guest time, Bailiff Monte Belmonte, enter that as exhibit A.
All right.
Pair of
black athletic shorts with orange piping on the side.
So now the inside is an important part of this too.
So make sure you show that.
And
this is a pair
entered as exhibit B, a pair of
swim shorts
with
personal netting extended for your perusal.
Black swim shorts
with a blue stripe on the bottom.
May I please feel
both things?
Thank you.
I believe I've heard and smelled enough in order to come to a decision.
I'm going to go into my chambers and
get into my wetsuit and lie down on my thinking futon.
I'll be back in a moment with my decision.
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.
You may be seated.
Matthew and Mary Kate.
It seems like the judge is favoring one of you over the other, certainly.
I do have a few questions.
Have you ever had Coitus?
We have a four-year-old daughter, so yes.
And it is your progeny from the fruit of your bathing suit mesh-covered loins?
Very much so, yes.
And we're sure about this, Mary Kate.
Yes.
Would you prefer that he slept in the nude?
I'd be fine with that.
Why?
Are you averse to sleeping in the nude, or do you sleep in the nude ever?
No, not no.
I myself am shamy, as my mother used to call it, and I try to never be nude.
Yeah.
And I feel the bathing suit speaks to a certain resourcefulness.
It seems to be, it has the same, to me, the same pieces that an undergarment of my choice and outer shorts would have.
They just happen to be stitched together.
No, no, no.
See, here's the other thing, and I wish I could have told the judge this.
You saw, okay, these have little built-in undeath.
Yes, I usually cut them out.
He wears underwear with them.
I believe the judge needs to re-enter.
That is not 100% true.
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.
You may be seated.
I hope you heard that last piece of evidence, Judge John Hodgman.
That at times he wears the bathing suit with underwear underneath.
What kind of underwear?
What style?
Briefs, boxers, broxers?
Briefs.
Breaks.
Briefs.
He's so embarrassed right now.
I wonder why.
I regret that I did not know that information and did not seek it out before I went into my chambers.
Not that it would have changed my decision, but it only would have increased my disgust.
It's not every time.
And it would have increased
my growing conviction that there is something wrong with Matthew.
Matthew and Mary Kate, the time that you spend in your bed is the most intimate time in your marriage, even if you are simply sleeping together.
It is
in the opinion of this court that married couples would probably do better if they had separate villas
across a reflecting pool, and they would visit each other from time to time.
Because sleep is essentially a selfish act of
reconnecting with yourself in an unconscious state, and it is also
not something you can truly share with another human.
And the only thing that you truly share when you are sleeping with another human is snores and farts.
Dutch oven.
But as it is
as it is custom in our culture to share a bed, and as it is the case that an editor for a foodie magazine and a high school English teacher probably cannot afford dual villas
And you, like most couples, must determine the most comfortable way to sleep together, and you have to be considerate of the other person's comfort level.
Matthew, you are a person without any distinction, discernment of your waking life and your sleeping life.
As far as you are concerned, you may be up on the roof watching the stars at one moment and then falling asleep in your work clothes the next.
You are like a five-year-old child.
There is something beautiful and naive in your inability to discern the difference between sleeping in bedclothes and sleeping in street clothes.
In some ways, I admire you because I am someone who
feels very, very uncomfortable
if I am not wearing clean clothes to bed,
in part because there is the literal garbage that you are tracking into your bed when you are wearing non-bed clothes, but also there is simply my brain cannot process the fact that I might be wearing running shorts in bed.
Like when I will not be able to sleep properly as a result of that, because I will know that what I'm doing is profoundly wrong on some level.
There is a great comfort that is given to you personally when
you make the transition from daytime to nighttime and you exhibit that transition within
the means of your finances by wearing some kind of bed clothes, whether that is classic pajamas or non-classic pajamas or
simply
some light cotton shorts that you have just for sleeping, or even a dedicated sleep swimsuit.
You like what you like, and you can discern, and if you were alone in the world, and if you're not careful, you may be,
you can wear whatever you want to bed all the time.
But once you start sharing that bed with another person,
I urge you for your own sake to consider acquiring and using some proper sleep clothes of your liking, but I also urge you to consider what it would be like for a spouse to cuddle up to her husband and feel a swimsuit and
briefs.
What you are advertising to your spouse.
What you are offering your spouse is not only what she has already established is an unpleasant physical sensation, which you should take seriously, but you are also advertising that you don't know the difference between clothes.
And the fact that you are adding briefs to a swimsuit means that you know somewhere deep inside you're making a mistake you're trying to correct.
It's like an underwear turducken.
Yeah.
It is very rarely that I come down so strongly on one side of our argument over another, especially when I am finding when I have the chance to put someone from New Jersey in their place.
Everything is legal in New Jersey.
But in this case, I order you
both to take a ride this weekend to Sam's in Brattleboro, Vermont.
Get some of that free popcorn with the chemicals on it that we're gonna kill you.
And you just pick out a couple of non-swimsuits, but like light cotton sweatshorts that you can wear to bed.
You only need like two or three of them at best.
And use those and a clean t-shirt at night.
And you will make that change from day to night in your bedroom alone.
And you'll,
because your wife is watching Netflix,
and you will think to yourself, I am transitioning into the evening time now.
And maybe if I do this enough, my wife will actually come to bed with me at the same time.
And Mary Kate, turn off the Netflix, dude.
Come on.
I'm working.
I'm not Netflixing that late at night.
Oh, you're working?
Yes.
Oh, I I apologize.
No.
Oh, no.
No, no.
I support anyone who has to support an English high school teacher.
This is the sound of a gavel.
Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits.
Are you exiting?
No, but you can rise.
All right, you can rise anyway.
Thank you very much, you guys.
Thank you to Matthew and Mary Kate.
Matthew and Mary Kate, ladies and gentlemen, you may be seated.
And thank you you to Fifi for naming this case.
Jason Fifi for naming this case.
Matthew and Mary Kate, once again, thanks for being on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.
And thank you, summertime, fun time, guest bail with Monty Belmonty.
If you don't know, if you haven't heard the show before, and if you don't live here, Monty is the morning DJ at WRSI The River, 93.9 here in Northampton.
And a resident of Turner's Falls, Massachusetts.
Yes.
And the president of the board of directors?
Yes, Much to my dismay.
Here at the wonderful Shea Theater.
Monty, it's been some time.
Much to your dismay.
Well, you know, it goes right to my head.
I've always said it, Monty, your dismay is my delight.
Well, I saw that Mayor Marty Walsh of Boston declared tomorrow, Sunday, September 18th.
Is that the right date?
Sunday, September 18th.
Yes.
Judge John Hodgman Day.
That's right.
And the Boston Globe said,
names it after a podcast.
I heard of it.
The Boston Globe had a headline today: Mayor Walsh proclaims Day of Honor for a podcast no one has heard of.
But you have all heard of it.
So I just thought, since we have no mayoral system in the town of Montague or the village of Turner's Falls, that I, as the president of the board of the Shea Theater, would declare Saturday, September 17th, Judge John Hodgman Day in Turner's Falls, Massachusetts.
I will accept only if you rewrite the proclamation that it be Judge John Hodgman Podcast Day, for indeed there is Judge John Hodgman, but the podcast includes such wonderful co-hosts as my bailiff, Jesse Thorne, and my fun-time, summertime bailiff, Monty Belmonte.
Now, Monty.
It's been a while since I've been in the Shea.
There's been some beautiful renovations here.
The place looks fantastic, and people should come back.
You have all kinds of programming.
Where can people who are listening to the podcast, thinking about a trip to Western Massachusetts, go to find out what's happening at the Shea and maybe make a donation to continue the renovations?
Shea Theater with an ER dot org.
Go there and check it out.
All Shea S-H-E-A, I should say.
Right, exactly.
Yeah.
S-H-E-A.
Like the butter.
S-H-E-A Theater
E-R or R-E.
E-R.
E-R.org.
O-R-G.
Yes.
Good.
Or G.
O-R-G.
Now, Monty, you also
spin platters on the radio stations, right?
You play some songs.
Stacks and stacks of wax and wax, as they say.
And through your radio programming, I came to know an amazing local act called The Sweetback Sisters.
And we don't have all of them here tonight, but maybe you can tell us who our musical guest is tonight.
Two of whom I've just met.
But I will let the lead singer tonight of the Sweetback Sisters introduce them.
It's Zara Bodhi and her Sweetback Sisters for the evening.
Zara Bodhi, ladies and gentlemen.
Hi, everybody.
So the Sweetback Sisters were all in Brattleboro, Vermont, just last weekend because we just finished recording a brand new record.
And
then they all dispersed.
But you don't say no to John Hodgman, you know.
So you pick up a couple of swell-looking guys, such as Mike Roberts,
Jeff Murphy,
and Jeff Murphy,
and then Stephan Amadon
but we'll still do some sweet back sister tunes.
This is one we I got from Marty Robbins.
It's called Don't Worry About Me
Don't Worry About me,
it's all over now.
Though I may be blue,
I'll manage somehow.
Love can't be explained,
can't be counterrose.
one day, it's a warm
and next day it's cold.
Don't pity me,
cause
I'm feeling blue.
Don't be ashamed
it might have been
you.
Oh,
love.
Kiss me one time, then go,
love.
I'll understand.
Don't worry about
me.
Sweet, sweet, sweet love
I want you to be
as happy as I
when you love me
I'll never
forget you
your sweet memory.
It's all over
now.
Don't worry about me
when one heart takes
one heart goodbye,
one heart is free,
and one heart will
cry.
Whoa,
sweet,
sweet, baby, sweet,
baby, sweet.
It's alright,
don't worry about me.
Thank you.
Sarah Bodie and the band I'm going to be calling, the Hanging Judges.
Thank you very much, Sarah.
We'll hear more from you in a little bit.
You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.
I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.
Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.
Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.
And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.
The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Quince.
Jesse, the reviews are in.
My new super soft hoodie from Quince that I I got at the beginning of the summer is indeed super soft.
People cannot stop touching me and going, that is a soft sweatshirt.
And I agree with them.
And it goes so well with my Quince overshirts that I'm wearing right now, my beautiful cotton Piquet overshirts and all the other stuff that I've gotten from Quince.
Why drop a fortune on basics when you don't have to?
Quince has the good stuff.
high quality fabrics, classic fits, lightweight layers for warm weather, and increasingly chilling leather all at prices that make sense everything i've ordered from quince has been nothing but solid and i will go back there again and buy that stuff with my own money john you know what i got from quince i got this beautiful linen uh double flap pocket shirt uh that's sort of like an adventure shirt and i also got a merino wool polo shirt oh it's like a it's like a mid-gray looks good underneath anything perfect for traveling because with merino wool it like it basically rejects your stink.
You know what I mean?
It's a stink-rejecting technology, John.
It says, get thee behind me, stink.
Yeah, exactly.
And, you know, honestly, even if I do need to wash it, I can just wear it in the shower when I'm traveling and then
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That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash JJ Ho to get free shipping and 365-day returns.
Quince.com slash JJ Ho.
The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.
Let me ask you a question.
Did you know that most of the dishes served at Tom Clichio's craft restaurant are made in, made in pots and pans?
It's true.
The brace short ribs, made in, made in.
The Rohan Duck Riders of Rohan, made in, made in.
That heritage pork chop that you love so much, you got it.
It was made in, made in.
But made in isn't just for professional chefs.
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And even some of your favorite celebratory dishes can be amplified with Made In cookware.
It's the stuff that professional chefs use, but because it is sold directly to you, it's a lot more affordable than some of the other high-end brands.
We're both big fans of the carbon steel.
I have a little
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And I know that she can, you know, she can heat that thing up hot if she wants to use it hot.
She can use it to braise if she wants to use it to braise.
It's an immensely useful piece of kitchen toolery.
And it will last a long time.
And whether it's...
griddles or pots and pans or knives or glassware or tableware.
I mean, you know, Jesse, I'm sad to be leaving Maine soon, but I am very, very happy to be getting back to my beloved made-in entree bowls.
All of it is incredibly solid, beautiful, functional, and as you point out, a lot more affordable because they sell it directly to you.
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That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware.com.
Let them know Jesse and John sent you.
You know, we've been doing My Brother, My Brother, Me for 15 years.
And
maybe you stopped listening for a while.
Maybe you never listened.
And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.
I know where this has ended up.
But no, no, you would be wrong.
We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.
Yeah.
You don't even really know how crypto works.
The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and Me.
We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.
And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.
So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.
All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.
Let's learn everything.
So let's do a quick progress check.
Have we learned about quantum physics?
Yes, episode 59.
We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?
Yes, we have.
Same episode, actually.
Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?
Episode 64.
So, how close are we to learning everything?
Bad news.
We still haven't learned everything yet.
Oh, we're ruined.
No, no, no, it's good news as well.
There is still a lot to learn.
Woo!
I'm Dr.
Ella Hubber.
I'm regular Tom Lum.
I'm Caroline Roper.
And on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.
And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.
Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.
And guess who's back, ladies and gentlemen?
My one, my own, Bailiff Jesse Fourn.
Back, ladies and gentlemen.
What a joy to be here.
It is.
My goiter has been
addressed.
Now,
when George Clooney,
acting legend George Clooney, of course, perhaps the most handsome man in the world.
Not merely a legend, he's a real person who exists.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know him as George.
Sure.
When George told me to go see his guy in western Massachusetts,
he and I were talking boyfriend.
Sure.
Dr.
Buckland Ashfield.
Dr.
Buckland Ashfield Athole.
When George Clooney said that his guy was going to be in western Massachusetts, and could Lanson suck my boil?
Sure.
I did not expect when he.
I thought maybe a family doctor, something like that.
Sure.
It turned out to be his family.
Old-time country doctor.
It turned out to be his lifelong best friend, hang dog actor Richard Kind.
No, really?
Yeah, that's true.
Wow, Richard Kind, Lanton sucked your boil.
Yeah, star of Red Oaks on Netflix.
That's right.
Also featuring Judge John Hodgman as Travis, the cable access television show manager.
Watch for it this November, Red Oaks.
I'm not lying.
Now, we had our friend
Bailiff, summertime, fun-time guest, Bailiff Monty Belmonte, the words I can never say.
We also have other...
You probably shouldn't have named him that long string of rhyming words.
You might as well have just named him Unique New York.
Red leather, yellow leather, Monte Belmonte.
He beats his fists against the post and still insists he sees the ghost, Monty Belmonte.
But we can do acting warm-ups all day.
Who wants to play zip, zap, zop?
But we have many other friends here in Western Massachusetts
who have names and titles that are much easier to pronounce, including our resident lexicographer and grammarian and all-around wonderful word presence, Ms.
Emily Brewster, who is in the wings and going to join us now.
Now, shall we?
Ladies and gentlemen, Emily Brewster.
Yes.
Ladies and gentlemen, if you listen to the podcast, or even if you don't, you may know that your neighbor, Emily Brewster, is a lexicographer who works at the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, a dictionary that I still believe is a dictionary, even though it defines a hot dog as a sandwich.
It's all right.
It's all right.
It's true.
I personally prefer Microsoft and Carter because it has video clips.
Emily, how are you?
I'm very well, thank you.
Just from being professionally insulted.
Look, get some multimedia content.
Get a three-second clip of Ted Williams, and we'll talk.
Go to merriamwebster.com.
I'm sorry, ma'am, I only use compact disc read-only memories.
Emily,
I don't want to fight over the fact that a hot dog is clearly not a sandwich.
You definitely want to fight over that.
Your dictionary made a grievous error,
but you know, English is a living language, and in time, I'm sure you guys will come to your senses.
But in the meantime...
Or end up dead.
Wow.
In the meantime, Emily, what has been going on in your life, the life of a lexicographer?
Actually, I've been on maternity leave.
Wow.
Is it the kind of maternity leave where you had a baby?
Yes, it's exactly the same.
Whoa, double congratulations then.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Yeah.
I have done no lexicographical work in eight weeks, so I'm a little resty.
Are you ready for this thing?
I I hope so.
What uh what style of baby did you have?
Um XX chromosome.
Okay, good.
Yep.
No no gender assigned at birth, I trust.
No.
Right, good.
It's small, kind, very small.
That's great, congratulations.
Thank you, thanks.
And um and you live here you live here in Turner's, is that?
I live in Greenfield.
In Greenfield, oh
I hear it's a shithole.
The definition of shithole does not cover Greenfield Massachusetts.
Shut up.
Shut up.
And, but you, but
you have been doing some lexicography recently.
You have done some work for the dictionary.
Like, what's the new stuff that we need to know about the dictionary?
Oh, well, you know, a term I worked on relatively recently was hot mess, which was a...
A good term.
That's in the dictionary now?
Yes.
And is it newly in the dictionary or has it always been there and I just missed it?
It is newly in the dictionary because
the oldest meaning of hot mess was actually a dish of hot, soft food.
And like the mess in that case is the mess from mess hall.
Right.
Right.
So why did they name that hall such a terrible word?
Yeah, that's a good question.
But that's just an old meaning of the word mess is like a dish of soft, pulpy food eating.
Okay.
Yeah.
And
before people had teeth.
Right.
Yes, long before people had teeth.
They were like my baby who has no teeth.
But the modern sense of hot mess is much newer.
But in doing my research and defining the term, I found out that it was not as new as I had thought.
So hot mess, in my estimation, after researching it, really kind of came on the scene the last, or started being used a lot in the last 10 or so years.
But when I was looking into evidence of the word hot mess in use, I found an example from 1899
of the modern use.
There was a guy writing an article in a machinist's journal in 1899 talking about how the public was not supporting a strike that machinists were on because they believed everything in the newspaper.
And he wrote, Verily I say unto you, if the newspaper says that the sky is painted with green chalk, that is what goes.
There's the, verily I say unto you, the public is a hot mess.
Wow.
Yeah.
And you know, I have one alternate definition for a hot mess.
Okay.
A dictionary doesn't know what a hot dog is.
Are we really going to argue this?
Because I can.
I can do it.
I can do it.
I'm through arguing.
I'm all done.
Earliest evidence of the word hot dog in use often refers to it as a hot dog sandwich.
I'll just
say that.
That's true.
Further evidence that English is a living language.
And that people in the past were dumb and confused.
Yes.
They also made eight-year-olds work in factories.
That's right.
And they fed them hot mess every night for dinner.
They had no teeth.
Maybe.
Yeah.
Well, I'm so glad you're here because we have a segment that we only do at the live shows called Swift Justice.
And that's where, you know, we only come
to these towns every now and then.
We can't hear all of the cases in full depth that we might want to, but we can't deny these small provincial outposts justice.
They're waiting for us to come here and let themselves be heard.
Emily, the people are hungry for justice.
That's exactly right.
I know that.
They want a hot mess of justice
shoved into their toothless maws.
I'm setting a timer for 10 minutes.
We're going to hear as many cases as we can.
We have some litigants standing by.
There may be some lexicographical issues that come up, and I hope you will feel free to weigh in on those or anything.
If you ever sense injustice, please speak up.
That is one of the watchwords of this podcast.
And one of the watchwords of the lexicographical profession.
That's right.
Lexicographical profession.
We're doing justice to words by making them long.
Here we go.
First dispute, go.
Come, come forth, litigants.
Quickly as possible.
Come forth and seek justice.
Justice to dispute.
What is your name, sir?
I'm Tom.
Hi, Tom.
Grace.
Grace.
And it is Tom versus Grace.
What is your dispute?
Grace, you talk first.
One night, he asked me for the green blanket.
And this is what he wanted.
Bailiff Jesse, would you display the blanket to the audience?
Those of you listening at home,
Let the record show that Grace has put forward a blanket that is of disputed color.
The gasp that you heard from the audience
was of obvious and utter disbelief that this blanket could be described as green.
Have we something in the room green to compare it to?
A green t-shirt?
A fern?
A frog?
Is there anyone wearing green?
Mic cable.
My microphone cord is green, but I want a human being wearing green, please.
Come, me, stop yelling, start walking.
Hurry.
Time is running out.
Don't hurt yourself.
Let the record show.
Let the record show that we've been joined on stage by a local tween.
He's not local.
If you can, tiptoe and speak into that microphone.
What is your name, young man?
Jonah Murphy.
Very good.
Thanks for giving me your first and last name.
He's wearing a backwards baseball cap,
a green under armor, buzz marketed t-shirt, and what looked to me like a pair of sleeping swimming trunks.
Tom, why do you describe that blanket as green?
I mean, I literally never considered that that would not be seen as green.
I will point out in my defense that it does look different in artificial versus natural light.
Quiet, Mom!
Evidently, the waves of unkind, natural laughter are not on my side here, but
Tom, take that blanket.
Child, step forward.
Tom, step forward.
Wrap that blanket around that child.
Tuck him in, Tom.
It's mostly a dog's blanket, Tom said.
Well, now it's a dogs and tweens.
Yeah, I can.
Mr.
Murphy, do you have any allergies to dog dander?
Nope.
Oh, nope, he's fine.
All right, good.
Tom, now that you have seen Mr.
Murphy wearing your dog blanket as a toga,
What color would you describe that blanket as?
I recognize that it is not the greenest of greens, but I still maintain.
The blanket is obviously white and gold.
White and gold.
I just want to note that I broke my gavel.
I was so mad
about your obstinence.
Sir,
that is a pale blue blanket or was before your German shepherd peed on it a thousand times.
That is in no way green.
You may never refer to it as such again.
Judge John Hodgmuls, that is all.
Next case, please.
Thank you, Mr.
Murphy.
Next case, please.
Step right up to the microphones.
Sir, what is your name?
Chris.
Madam, your name?
Liz.
I like your t-shirt, Liz.
Thank you very much.
Congratulations.
Let the record show that Liz is wearing a t-shirt representing the podcast One Bad Mother available on the Maximum Fund Network.
What is your dispute?
The dispute is: I like to have the bed made before getting into bed, and whether my husband is in it or not, I pull the covers up.
Wait a minute.
Exactly.
When you're getting into bed of an evening.
Yes.
First, you have not made the bed after you got up in the morning?
No.
No, okay.
And clearly, your marriage is aligned on that point.
Yes.
Yes.
The bed is left unmade all day?
Yes.
But you would like to make the bed before getting into it.
Correct.
And technically, make the bed while getting into it, right?
Correct.
Well, you're in the bed.
After, after.
I'm in.
So,
only after he's in.
So, Chris, you are in bed.
Yes, with our son.
With you.
Who my wife chose to co-sleep with.
That's fine.
How old is your son?
13?
Three now.
Oh, okay, good.
His birthday was yesterday, and I ditched him to be here.
Oh, yeah.
So, yes, he is a one bad mother.
Liz, I hate to break it to you, but today is not yesterday.
Your sense of time is very confused.
That is correct, but I was on a plane yesterday at 5 o'clock in the morning.
Oh, well.
Thank you very much for joining us.
And to be fair, three-year-olds don't know what day it is, actually.
This is true.
That was the consensus of your wife's Facebook page, which she consulted before we could book this trip.
This is correct.
I'm not making this decision.
Your pandering doesn't help.
I'm not pandering to you.
She is.
I am.
Chris,
let me get this straight because we have very limited time.
You go, what time do you go to bed?
About nine.
About nine.
What time do you go to bed, Liz?
He's lying.
We go to bed.
We start the bedtime routine at 7.30.
Well, yeah, but the point is that you're trying to make the bed while your husband is lying in it.
Well, the only thing is he
won't make his side of the bed before getting in, so the covers are down at the bottom of the bed.
Or slightly to one side or the other.
So you're annoyed because you have to tuck in your husband every night?
No, she does not tuck me in.
She makes me get out of the bed.
No, no, no, hang on.
Hold on.
She makes me get out of bed so we can then line up the sheets side to side, front to back, perfectly toothy millimeter
before then we can get back in bed to mess them up as her pictures were shown.
You brought evidence?
She did.
Where is the evidence?
It's on my phone, but it's going to take a long time to get to it.
Yeah, no, it's too bad.
Okay.
Why don't you make the bed in the morning when you get up?
Because I'm lazy.
Okay.
Make the bed in the morning when you get up from now on.
Stretch that housing rules.
That is all.
Next case, please.
Two minutes and 18 seconds for justice.
Madam, your name?
My name is Amy.
Amy, sir, your name?
Brayden.
Say that again?
My name is Brayden.
Brayden.
Very good.
And what is the nature of your dispute, Amy?
The nature of our dispute is that he insists that dirty clothes go in a hamper and clean clothes go in a laundry basket.
I say that they're interchangeable terms.
It really doesn't matter.
Man, I wish we had a lexicographer here right now.
Monty, do you also do lexicography?
Oh, wait, I'm sorry, Emily.
Hello.
So,
Brayden, you dispute this?
I think a hamper is strictly for dirty clothes.
And a laundry basket?
Is for transportation of dirty clothes to the washer.
Right, okay.
And
bring it back up.
The mob wishes to speak.
Did you guys grow up in different parts of the world?
Nope, we grew up in Western Mass.
Both of you in Western Massachusetts, so this cannot be ascribed to a regionalism.
No.
Oh, okay.
Neighboring towns, in fact.
What's that?
Neighboring towns.
Neighboring towns?
Which towns?
He grew up in Southwark.
I grew up in Westfield.
Oh, well.
Southwick and what?
Westfield?
Westfield?
They see everything different.
It's true.
It's like hampers and laundry baskets between those two towns.
Emily of the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, do you distinguish a difference between hamper and laundry basket, either by dictionary definition or just gut?
Well.
The word hamper historically referred to any kind of, any basket that would typically with a lid that is used to carry anything can be laundry can be food you could have a picnic hamper and it wasn't until the 20th century that hamper came to be used more specifically
more narrowly to refer to something that is used to hold dirty laundry
so Amy's interpretation is is more traditional a more traditional use of the word and Braden's is the narrower more modern use of the word more traditional and broad definition in a hamper could carry anything.
That's right.
A dirty laundry, clean laundry, or delicious sandwiches.
Yes.
And originally, the word referred to something that carried goblets.
Goblets?
Goblets.
You carry some goblets in your hand?
I do not carry any goblets.
So you start carrying goblets in your hamper.
Hampers for dirty clothes, laundry basket for transportation of clean clothes.
That is all.
Thank you.
Listen up, Midwestern Max Funsters.
Do not miss out on the inaugural Chicago Podcast Festival, November 17th through 19th.
Catch the hilarious ladies of Lady to Lady and the witty and incisive Anneke and James from Minority Corner.
Plus, Bullseye with Jesse Thorne will feature interviews with some pretty heavy hitters like Andre Royo and Dwayne Kennedy.
Don't snooze, don't lose.
Tickets are available right now.
Visit maximumfund.org and buy them.
I believe we have another case on our ticket.
Emily, do you think you could stick around with us for this case?
Yes.
Okay, fantastic.
I'm going to go into my chambers and wait for the case to be ready.
Let's bring in our next set of litigants.
Please welcome Jason and Cecily.
I'm sorry, apparently Cecily and Perry Mason.
Is it Cecily or Cecily?
Cecily.
Cecily.
Gee whiz.
Okay.
Tonight's case, amphibious corpus.
Jason brings the case against his girlfriend Cecily.
They can't decide if a tadpole is a baby frog.
Jason says no.
says yes.
Who's right?
Who's wrong?
Only one man can decide.
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.
For the entirety of my young and skittish life, I had fixated upon my fear as if it were the most interesting thing about me, when actually it was the most mundane.
My fear wasn't some kind of rare artisanal object.
It was a mass-produced item.
And that's the thing I wanted to build my entire identity around?
The most boring instinct I possessed?
The panic reflex of my dumbest inner tadpole?
No.
Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in.
You may be seated.
Please raise your right hands.
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, God or whatever yes of course do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he is in fact a baby frog
yes
very well Judge Hodgman
Cecily and Jason you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors and I hope neither of you looked at my script while I was reading that Do you can you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom?
Let's see.
Jason, who brings this case to me?
I brought this case.
Very good.
So, Cecely, you are here against your will.
You may choose to guess first or make Jason guess first.
Jason should guess first.
All right, classic maneuver, Jason.
I'm going to have to go with the Jim Henson autobiography.
The Jim Henson autobiography?
Because this is a frog-based dispute.
Oh, yes.
Yeah, all right.
That's a good, that's a guess.
We'll put that into the guess book.
What about you, Cecely?
What is your guess?
I'm going to guess a 1905 Wilderness Amphibian book.
1905 Wilderness Amphibian Book.
Does this book have a title?
That is both weirdly specific and weirdly vague.
Is it an actual book?
Or are you just making up a book?
I'm making it up.
Well done.
And let the record show that Cecily is wearing a t-shirt with a skeleton of a frog on it.
And that her husband, husband,
no, excuse me, friend?
A girlfriend.
Her boyfriend.
Her girlfriend Jason is wearing a wonderful suit with a tie that has cricket players on it.
Yes.
That's right.
No frog-based stuff at all.
And also some sweet saddle shoes, wouldn't you say there, Jesse?
I think those are spectators, aren't they?
Spectators?
They are.
Very nice.
That's a spectator, Judge.
All right.
I stand corrected.
Well, all guesses are wrong.
That was actually a quote from friend of the court, an occasional expert witness, and MaxFun podcaster Elizabeth Gilbert from her book, Big Magic, Creative Living Beyond Fear.
Judge Hajman, is that book available in paperback at all?
No, sorry, no, not at all.
Not in the least.
She refused to release it in paperback.
And all existing copies of the hardcover have been destroyed, so no one can ever buy them again.
Otherwise, I would be plugging something, and I would never do that.
Well, it's just that I love that book and her podcast magic lessons.
So I would love to get the book because the paperback's more convenient to carry around and more affordable.
Well, I'll see if we can get it back into print.
Okay.
In any case, welcome to the court.
Now, Jason,
what is it issue here?
The issue is whether or not a tadpole is a baby frog.
Whether or not a tadpole is a baby frog.
You contend yay or nay.
I believe there's two ways to look at it.
Oh, boy, here we go.
Not me.
I barely believe there's half a way to look at it.
But I am looking forward to your, I'm sure, labored explanation.
You can look at it scientifically.
Sure.
But the term baby is neither helpful nor instructive from looking at this from a scientific point of view.
Or you can look at it from the perspective of how we apply the word baby in this situation in sort of colloquial speech.
Right.
You know, is it kitten is to cat as to tadpole is to frog?
Right.
Or is it cocoon is to, or caterpillar is to butterfly as tadpole is to frog?
That sort of thing.
And you maintain that a tadpole is going to turn into a kitten?
I don't understand what.
No, I contend that a tadpole is a larval stage on the way to becoming an adult frog, but it is not.
A few would disagree with you on that.
But
it is therefore a baby frog.
No, no, I believe it is something entirely different than a baby frog.
I see.
Okay, so.
You think it's an adult tadpole?
Able to watch tadpole pornographies, smoke tadpole cigarettes, and so forth.
You have to go to a specialty store.
Cecily, it's called Reddit.
Cecily, who is wearing a t-shirt that has a frog skeleton on it,
first of all, you are obviously concerned with the frog in all of its stages of life.
Why do you contend that a tadpole is a baby frog and why are you bothered that your girlfriend disagrees with you?
Well, I think a tadpole is as close to a baby frog as you're going to get.
It has the same brain from tadpole.
It's the same being.
It's the same being from tadpole into frog.
So when it makes a transition to having the legs of being a frog, it's already had a life experience.
So it's not in the baby phase when it goes to tadpole to full frog.
It's already had that.
And the baby phase is...
It's the tadpole phase.
Yeah, I'm not sure these things have distinct phases like that.
Why does it matter in your relationship?
It came up in a car debate.
Where were you driving?
To a soccer game.
Maybe I'll understand this better if I understand a little bit more about you guys.
Cecely, what do you do in life?
I am a painter, but mostly I am a product line manager for a cartographic data set.
For a cartographic data set?
I manage cartographers.
Oh, you take care of the cartographers.
Make more maps.
Makes it faster.
Exactly.
Better on the coastlines.
Yes.
Make these rivers blue, damn it!
Blue!
No rivers.
No rivers.
Jason, what do you do in life?
I am an adjunct law professor and attorney.
Ah, I see.
So you're professionally argumentative.
And personally argumentative.
And how long have you guys been together?
Four or five years.
And
when you were just driving along one day to a soccer game, which I guess is something that people do, were either of you playing in the soccer game?
No.
Why were you going to soccer?
Were you in Europe at the time?
I'm sorry.
No, it's fine.
I just...
And you said you were driving to a soccer game.
So
John sort of suggested...
Apparently people drive to soccer games, right?
So I was like, oh, I have a good tag for that.
So I asked, were you in Europe at the time?
Which suggested that, well, sure, in Europe, people like soccer.
Football.
But this is America.
God's America.
I respect the flag.
You were driving to a soccer game in your
Citroen de Cheval
because to wearing your spectator spectator shoes as spectators of soccer.
Because you enjoy boring things.
Yes, we were driving a couple of our children to a soccer game.
Oh, they were going to play in the soccer game.
And you were like, oh, our kids haven't heard mommy and daddy fight for a while.
What's the smallest thing we could fight over?
Literally and physically.
Tadpole is a small thing.
How did it come up in conversation?
You were just there, Cecely going, you know what, it's a baby frog, a tadpole.
Maybe, I really don't remember.
You don't remember?
No.
But the fight last for a while?
It carried on to the dinner table.
And
were your children crying by the end, please?
They were taking sides.
How does it break down among your children?
There's been some disagreement as to their recollection of whose sides they originally took.
What do you remember, Jason?
I remember that they all had originally taken my side.
They're all originally.
Two of them are on my side now.
How many children do you have now?
Three combined.
And have they lost their vestigial tails yet?
Yes.
Have they gone through their cocoon and come out as humans?
They're here with us tonight, actually.
Emily,
you are a lexicographer, not an expert on animal morphology, but I would be curious to know how the dictionary defines baby.
Is that a scientific term?
It's not a non-scientific term.
But a tadpole is not defined as a baby frog.
How is it defined?
It's defined as the larval stage of an amphibian blah, blah, blah.
Right, frog.
Right.
Yeah, right.
Yes.
So
it would be amazing if it was defined as the larval stage of an amphibian something else.
Right.
Like they're just like, you know,
we've been throwing a lot of fastballs.
Let's hit them with the curve.
There is a dictionary written for children ages five to seven that I happen to look in that does define a tadpole as a baby frog.
What does the adult dictionary say?
It very distinctly says it is not a baby frog.
It's a larval stage.
And you, in your lexicographer's gut, does larval stage connote a baby?
No.
I mean,
it's distinct from...
When metamorphosis is involved as a process, this is not...
It's not the same thing as a baby in the way that
a kitten is a baby cat.
But actually, they're distinct.
So a tadpole has gills,
and a frog, an adult frog, a frog, any frog, has lungs.
What animal, ma'am?
Frog.
And because of that
rather distinct morphological difference,
in your opinion,
not a baby make.
Right.
Right, I did not say that very well, but you understand.
I understand, yes.
You're just trying to save time.
So
getting to the point where I have to talk like Bizarro.
Frog grown up.
Frog not tadpole.
Tadpole not baby.
Baby is baby, no?
Baby not larval.
Baby small thing of thing.
Smaller version of thing is baby.
Not different gross thing with tail and gills.
Changed through metamorphosis must be different than baby, no?
We say baby is baby, obvs.
That's basically baby small human grow into large baby, no?
Yes.
Yes.
Pizarro say yes, which means no.
So you've heard my argument, Jason.
Yes.
Yes.
And you agree with me?
Heard well.
Right.
But Cecilie, why you appreciate that this thing is a completely different form?
and does not follow the same kinds of the same growth pattern that mammals and other things to which we ascribe baby dumb too.
And frankly,
no one cares about this tadpole, they're gross.
Why is what Emily said, despite all of the dictionary's evidence, not meaningful to you?
It's meaningful.
I think it's the most baby-like form that the frog is in.
Once it's a froglet,
it's already had experience.
It's not a baby once it's a frog.
Maybe there is no baby frog.
But the tad frog froglet is a technical term.
Froglet is a television.
It's a technical term.
It means half frog, half toilet.
I noticed you're holding a piece of paper in your hand.
Yes.
What is that piece of paper, if I may?
This is the court case that Jason submitted in case we needed to really
go through the specifics of what he said.
Please let me, please.
please.
Let the record show: evidence A,
an email,
and
let the record show that Jason
has produced a book and a leather binder.
Jason is now the equivalent of like one of those television personal
injury lawyers
whose like main job is just saying stuff in front of books.
You clearly are prepared to make a presentation, sir.
You have the floor.
There are many distinct stages of the frog life cycle.
It starts off with tadpole,
moves on to tadpole with legs, then becomes a frog let,
which suggests that it is a lesser frog but yet beyond the tadpole larval stage.
And in fact, it's sort of a greater frog because it both does frog things and toilet things.
Yes, yes.
And then eventually becomes a frog.
Can I use any of those visual aids?
Why did you even bring that book in my courtroom?
Well I feel like showing you the 48 stages.
You know what checkout says you don't you don't have a book about tadpoles on the mantelpiece if you don't shoot it off by the second act.
Well
given it's a podcast, I figured that showing the 48 separate and distinct stages of frog frog development might not be
and yet you brought them, so now it's on you.
I'm happy to see.
You see the 48 stages of development.
This is.
Let the record show that Jason has brought a coffee table book that's called Tadpoles.
If ever there was a case for interlibrary loan, it's this.
Purchased, there's a book plate in here purchased by the library of Dartmouth College.
You steal this book, sir?
It was loaned to me by a Dartmouth librarian.
I see.
Right, right, okay.
Here we go.
It's from their medical school out library, actually.
Fertilization, gray crescent, two cell, four cell, eight cells, sixteen cell, thirty-two-cell, mid-cleavage, late cleavage, or so lip, yoke plug, late gastrula, neural plate, neural folds, elongation, rotation, neural tube, gill plates, tail bud, adhesive gland, muscular responsible factory pits, heartbeat, gill buds, gill circulation, tail elongation, cornea transparent, mouth opens, tail fins transparent, fin circulation, foot paddle, indentation four to five, indentation of three to four, indentation two to three, indentation one to two,
foot tuberculosis.
Vent tube present, forelimbs visible, mouth parts atrophy,
mouth parts atrophy, vent tube gone, forelimbs emerge, mouth between nostril and eyes, tail atrophy, toy boat, mouth body, toy boat, toy boat, mouth beneath eye, tail greatly reduced, mouth posterior to eye, tail stub, tail resorbed, metamorphosis complete.
Jason, is it just a coincidence that your fraternity nickname was tail stub?
It's not.
I didn't see baby anywhere in there, Cecilie.
Well, it's the most baby-like form.
You are a painter, he is an attorney.
Is it fair to say that you take a more artistic approach to your understanding of the relative babydom of frogs versus the more hardcore scientific, I'm stealing a book from the library approach that Jason take?
Yes.
Does this prove to be an issue in other parts of your partnership?
I wouldn't say it's an issue.
Like, do you have these sort of arguments?
Would you say it's part of the fun?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it's the fun.
Do you have these sorts of arguments all the time?
Are incredibly small bore arguments without stakes?
Yes.
What's another one that you have had that is memorable to you?
I can't really think of it.
I can't recall one either.
No.
We just like the banter of back and forth, and sometimes they grow and develop into these grandiose ideas.
So, why would you have me rob you guys of the delight of the banter?
Oh, we don't need to talk about the frogs anymore.
Oh, this one needs to be settled.
What would you have me order if I were to find in your favor?
I would like her to prepare me a dinner of frog legs.
What?
They're grown-ups.
They had a full life.
It's not asking for baby frogs.
And if I find in your favor, Cecily, you have to fry up some tadpoles and make them eat them.
No, I want to be known as the amphibian expert in the house.
You want to be known as the amphibian expert in the house?
Yes.
You don't have a book full of charts of metamorphosis.
She's got a skeleton.
The letter to see, it's from the library.
I have a book about amphibians.
What is it?
It's just a frog and totter free.
Okay, I think I've heard everything I need to make my decision.
I'll be back in a moment.
I'm going to go and half bury myself in mud and brackish water
and contemplate my decision.
I'll be back in a moment.
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.
You may be seated.
Please sit.
Jason,
did you come here to embarrass your wife?
She's not my wife.
I'm sorry.
But I did not come here to embarrass her at all.
She came here quite willingly.
But I mean you put on the I'm going to embarrass my forgive me girlfriend outfit.
Like I'm really going to really really take this lady I love down a peg.
I'm a licensed attorney in the state of Massachusetts, and I, I mean, maybe.
And that comes with certain responsibilities.
One dresses with respect in the courtroom.
Cecely, I have a really important question for you.
Yes.
Did you already own that frog shirt, or did you just go on eBay and type in frog shirts two weeks ago?
Not eBay.
And maybe a week ago.
You just went to
frog shirt store.pizza and went ahead.
How do you feel about your chances, Cecily?
Less confident than when I got here.
Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this.
Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.
Sit down.
Me think.
Me think long.
Me think
frogs gross.
Me think tadpole, gross.
Me think baby, cute.
Me think why different.
Me think
artists think baby tadpole cute.
Me think
artists think
make frog more human.
Methink artists think not respect difference between
human, mammal, baby things,
and weird, gross amphibian things.
Methink describe tadpole as baby, sentimentalizing, anthropomorphosizing.
Word me not say easily.
Me think science work hard to describe different
stages of weird transformation in gross animal frog.
Fifty stages read for you from books stolen from library.
Me think
reduce stages one
to thirty-five and call maybe
reductive, simplistic, denying
the weird strangeness of world.
Methink frog, no make good pet.
Methink
small tadpole, no cute kitten.
Methink,
Cecily,
go buy frog legs.
This sound gavel.
Judge John Hodgman, rule.
That is all.
Jason and Cecily, ladies and gentlemen.
Lexicographer Emily Brewster.
Thank you to the three of them.
You know, we've had a lot of fun tonight.
We've served a lot of justice.
True.
But I don't think it's quite time to go home.
No, I think we have, I would love to hear another song from Zara Bodhi and the hanging judges.
So would I, wouldn't you?
Well, why don't we have that happen
in about 35 minutes?
Everyone, take a break, and we'll all come back.
No, no, right now, Zara Bodhi and the hanging judges, a band I just named.
Well, I went to my boss.
I said, boss, I need a raise.
I've been living on bread, peat of butter for days.
We looked at his shoes and he gave a little laugh.
He said,
here's what I'm gonna do on your behalf.
I'm gonna cry, cry,
lay right down and die.
I'm gonna ball my little hands up,
rub my eyes,
run back home,
call out into bed,
get my little notebook in.
How much you said, I'm gonna cry, cry, cry
for you.
When I went to my landlord, he's related to my boss.
Tried to act all friendly, I said, hey there, Hoss.
Put my arm around him, said, Can't you let me slide?
Won't you give me one more week?
Pay the rent on this dial.
And his eyes sort of twinkled, he gave a little grin.
He said, Here's the position that you put me in.
I'm gonna cry, cry,
lay right down and die.
All my little hands up,
up my eyes,
run back home.
I'm gonna
bell.
I'm gonna get my little notebook in.
Now what you said, I'm gonna cry,
cry, cry
for you.
Well, my landlord came around with a couple of thugs.
They would be tall missed with an order from the judge.
Put my bed on the clerk.
They put my ghost on the bed.
They put a lock on the door and a sign that said, You're gonna cry, cry, gonna lay right down, die.
Go on, ball, my little hands are gonna rub my eyes, gonna run back home,
gonna crawl out in bed, gonna get my little notebook again.
Round what you said, I'm gonna cry, cry, cry
for you.
I'm gonna cry, cry, gonna lay right down and die.
Go for my little hands, I'm gonna rub my eye on the medico.
Gonna crawl out in bed, gonna get my little notebook there.
Now what you said, I'm gonna cry, cry,
cry
for you.
I'm gonna cry, cry, cry
for you.
Zara Bodhi, ladies and gentlemen.
And hanging judges.
Thank you to the Zara Bodhi Band for playing some great music for us in Turner's Falls.
If you're near Northampton, Massachusetts, you can catch Zara with her band, the Sweetback Sisters, at their annual Country Christmas Sing-Along Spectacular at the Academy of Music in Northampton on December 23rd.
The Sweetback Sisters' new album will be out in the spring.
For more information, you can find them at thesweetbacksisters.com.
Thank you also to our summertime fun-time bailiff, Monty Belmonty, grammar expert Emily Brewster, and to all of our litigants in Turner Sfraws who shared their arguments with us.
There are a bunch of people who helped us put on this show thanks to the amazing staff at the Shea Theater, Danielle Davis, Matthew Barnhart, and Jennifer Marmer, our producer who makes the show happen.
If you'd like to submit a case to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast, you can do it at maximumfund.org/slash JJ Ho.
And if you want to email us, it's hodgman at maximumfund.org.
We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.
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