SAY WHAT?? AUTHOR AND PODCASTER JOE PARDAVILA and the ART OF COMMUNICATING BETTER

Hi guys, happy Tuesday.

For those of you who look at my social media, you know that today we are going to try to talk about something very, very important, which is the art of communication,

which I think most of us agree can make or break a relationship.

So let me introduce my guest.

I am so excited to talk to you today, Joe Pardavila.

Hi, Joe.

Hi, Kat.

How are you?

I'm great.

Thank you so much for doing this.

I really appreciate it.

I'm honored to be here.

Usually I'm on the other side asking the people to be on my podcast.

Whenever I'm a guest, I always feel honored because I know

what it all goes through to be on that side of it.

So I just appreciate it.

Thank you.

Awesome.

I am very honored.

So let me tell my audience about your work.

First of all, you are a podcaster yourself,

probably with a lot more.

hours of podcasts than me.

You've done over 10,000, correct?

10,000 hours of podcasts.

I've done 10,000 hours in terrestrial and podcasting.

So the first like 20 years of my career, terrestrial radio in New York City, doing morning drive.

And then over the last, I'd say, probably five to six years, I've done a regular podcast.

First, I started with the science of sex, and then now I'm doing a business podcast.

Science of sex, I like that.

We have to talk about that one, but that's a whole other episode.

And you wrote a book which I was reading last night.

I like read it quick, crazy fast because I love books that are short and flow.

You're just like my style, and I loved it.

It's called The Good Listen, correct?

Yeah, good listen.

And yes,

you captured exactly the spirit.

It's a fast, breezy read.

I tell people that they could probably finish it sitting on the toilet.

It's under 200 pages, and it's basically a lot of the stories in my career that sort of made me who I am.

And I didn't want to do a book just to name-drop celebrity run-ins.

It was really more about here's the things I learned from these celebrity run-ins I had.

Yeah, no, and I love it.

I think nowadays, most of us, we don't have a lot of time.

I love reading, but we don't have a lot of time.

So I just like the way, yeah, it flows a lot, really fast.

It's easy to read and it's packed with information.

So I highly recommend you guys read it.

We're going to talk about it.

I have like a million questions.

We only have an hour.

And because this podcast is about sex, dating, and relationships, I want you to maybe help us and dive into that.

But let's start from the beginning.

I completely agree with you.

Like in the beginning of your book, you talk about how cell phones and internet and all this modern technology totally changed the way we communicate for sure.

I think we all of us joke like that we do everything with our cell phones except talk on the cell phones, right?

Right, absolutely.

And

in my opinion, and I want to know yours, I think he made, as crazy as it is, we have more forms to communicate with each other, but I think he made communication so much harder.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I didn't want to come at this cat from like the old man screaming at the clouds.

Like, I love technology technology as much as anyone.

I love a good text, I love social media, I'm all about that.

So, I'm not anti-technology, but what happens is that we get so enamored with it and the ease of it that we sort of lose a lot of the skills that we really need to have to become better human beings.

So, technology makes life easy, it just doesn't make us better people, especially when it comes to communicating with other people.

So, that was a big focus of the book.

It's really, you know, some people say, oh, is this a book about podcasts?

I'm like, not really.

It's really more about like communicating.

And sure, to be a good podcaster, you've got to be a good conversationalist, which is good for real life, for IRL.

It's good.

So all those skills can work in a podcast or whether it's in business or in your life.

No, I agree.

It's not a book about podcasting.

You just give a little great ideas of how to communicate better.

Now, I have a degree in communications, believe it or not.

I always loved,

my entire life, I worked in some capacity in the media.

I was a TV baby.

I've done modeling.

I've done TV.

I had a radio show as well before the podcast.

I love communicating.

I love talking to people.

So I always thought of myself as a good communicator.

But now,

with the world of dating and relationships turned out, I'm like, maybe I'm not that great of a communicator.

But before we get into that, yes, we have the cell phone, we have WhatsApp, we have text, we have email, we have everything at our disposal.

I agree with you, I'm not against technology as much as I love old-fashioned letters and

handwritten notes that nobody does anymore.

I guess I'm an old soul.

But yes, it makes our lives easier.

But

a lot gets lost.

In the mix, right?

So many times, do you feel that?

Like, sometimes I feel like I'm texting someone and I'm saying A and they're understanding Z and sometimes you read a phrase and sometimes you don't read another phrase.

So it's like bits and pieces.

And I think at the end of the day,

the connection gets lost.

Yeah, well, I think one thing that tech does not do well is nuance, and life is full of nuance, and you know, tech may eventually get there, maybe in the next 20, 30 years, but right now, you just can't do nuance.

So, that text you were talking about, Kat, you're probably talking about maybe like sarcastic humor, or maybe a joke, or a wink and a nod.

As much as the mojis help with that, it's so hard to get that across.

Especially like

body language, facial expressions.

You can't do that in text.

So things that you may say that are so innocuous and nothing in real life to a person what you're staying next to, you put in a text form.

It could be World War III.

I know.

What do they mean by that?

And to me, yeah, like you were saying once and you just said it, emojis, maybe that's the closest thing in terms of texting that expresses our emotions.

But it's like, you know, it's a complicated territory because now I hear a lot of people, what did he mean by that?

Is he mad?

Is he angry?

Does that mean okay?

Does that mean like good deal?

Did I do too much?

And people are literally

substituting words for emojis.

I do it too,

but I honestly think it's a really bad idea.

Yeah, no, I mean, I will say the one thing about emojis is it could also backfire too.

Yeah.

Because you can use an emoji like an eye wink and people be like, oh, she's flirting with me.

What do you mean by that?

What do you mean by that?

Because then you get a random emoji like, so what does that mean?

So yes, but I agree though, in short, you know, form messaging like, hey, do you want to meet tonight at seven?

Yeah.

Text is amazing for that.

There's no nuance needed for that.

It's like date time.

Yeah, we're good.

But when we're talking about real conversations, about speaking to someone and really connecting, you're not going to be able to do that with technology.

Even like a FaceTime call or you know, Zoom calls, it's not the same.

I know now, but do you have this experience?

I feel most people don't even want to answer the phone, yeah.

Like, you call them, they get annoyed.

Like, why'd you call me?

Even me, I confess, and a lot of people laugh about it because I have two phones because of my business, so I don't have time to listen to voicemails.

So, like, when somebody calls me, I'm like, hi, this is Kat, please don't leave a message, don't leave a message, text me or email because then I see what it is all about and then I decide if I have time to call the person back just being honest, I don't have time.

But

it's frustrating because most people don't even want to talk on the phone.

Well, I think the deal with that, Kat, is our on-demand culture that we live in.

So we want everything on demand.

We watch TV, we consume music on demand.

So in a way, our communication barriers are now on demand.

So for example, a phone call.

That phone call comes to you at 2 o'clock in the afternoon and you're like, I don't want to speak to the person at 2 o'clock in the afternoon.

So I'm going to let it go to voicemail.

Now, if you decide to then communicate with that person via a telephone call at your discretion, that's cool.

But if you're answering back

some sort of voicemail with a text, unless there's no context needed, go for it.

But I think that's super important, Kat.

So it's fine that you don't love getting a phone call.

I'm the same way, especially like during the day.

I'm like, why is this person calling me?

And a lot of the times it can be just an easy text question, but then people will prefer to use voicemail, which is fine.

But again, it's this on-demand culture we live in.

So you may not want at that moment, but you can definitely do that later on in the day.

Yeah, well, I actually do like getting phone calls, but I feel like we live in such a busy, busy times right now that with like I said, with all this technology, we end up saying, let's just communicate quicker.

But let's translate the communications into in-person communication because i think we all agree or almost all of us agree that yes technology makes it complicated a lot of it gets lost in the cracks but now when you are communicating face to face

uh still a lot of people have a hard time saying what they want to say Especially like when they're looking in your face, you know, like, and that's why nowadays people break up over the phone.

Like they text them, sorry, honey, this is not because they don't have the balls to look you in the eyes, or like if something is bothering you, or if your client did something bad to you, whatever.

People are afraid of speaking their mind.

Do you agree?

They are, but I think a bigger problem, Kat, is the fact that we just don't listen to each other.

If we listen to each other better, and the reason I call the book good listen for many reasons is the fact that you need to become a better listener when it comes to talking to other people.

Yeah.

Because the technology, what it's done is it's really made us bad at listening because we never have to listen to any of these messages.

It's like, okay,

that's the message in a text, a DM, whatever, cool.

But what it does is it erodes our listening capabilities.

So we're just not very, so all we want to do is, and this is, this is, people are, we're all guilty of this, but we're all, all we're doing is waiting for the other person to stop talking, right?

We're not listening to the other person.

We're waiting until that person stops talking, then I talk.

You don't, you're not even, you're, you may,

you may be hearing it, but you're not listening.

I think that's the biggest problem that people are not even like, because the whole part about fear of communicating with people, I think that's more of a psychological thing, Catherine.

I think people have to work that on that themselves.

But when it comes to having conversations with people, deep, meaningful conversations, it's really about the listening piece.

That's what it's all about.

And we just, we're all terrible at it.

And one of the things I did with the book was like, try to help people with that, whether it's, because the thing is, if you talk to anyone who's, you know, in the entertainment business, they'll say the best interviewers are the best listeners.

They're not there to get the attention.

They're not there to highlight their own jokes or their life.

They're the best at listening to that person, what they give them, and then making it into something, you know, creating this sort of alchemy, this little chemistry that happens between two or more people.

So, if you become a better listener, all of the other stuff will just will really improve just exponentially, whether it's in your life, personal life, whether it's in your business life, whether it is if you want to do podcasting or want to be an influencer in any way.

You've got to make sure you listen to people.

I completely, completely agree with you.

And, you know, it's interesting that you said that because I agree.

If you go talk to someone, if you're a reporter, journalist, even a podcaster, if you know, if you become interested, I want to find out about that person.

Who is he?

What does he do?

Let me look at his social media.

For sure, you're going to be able to create a much more interesting, richer conversation.

And I don't know if it has happened to me, it happens to me all the time in my life.

Like when somebody asks to interview me or even brands, like they approach me, oh, we want to work with you.

We want to, and then I'm like, I realize two minutes into the conversation, they know nothing about me.

They didn't bother like opening my Instagram.

It's all there, you know, you can find out like in under five minutes.

And many times, I actually ask back, like, you don't, you didn't bother, you want to work with me, you want to talk to me, but you don't know what I do.

And it happens to be all the time.

I don't know if that ever happened to you.

No, it happens all the time, especially PR people.

Yeah.

PR people are.

They're so overwhelmed.

My biggest joke about PR people is their job, one, is not to get fired.

The rest is easy.

Which, by the way,

I think it's a horrible excuse, to be honest with you.

I agree because I work with a ton of PR agencies.

I have PR friends, but like, zero excuse.

We are all crazy busy.

We're all overwhelmed with work.

It's like you said, if you're going to interview someone, if you're going to represent someone, I mean, do your homework for 10 freaking minutes.

Like, yeah, but you know what, you know what PR people are?

PR people are like the person on Tinder that swipes right on everybody.

They basically want to put out as many

swipe rights as well.

I know, I know.

See what comes back.

They're not even looking or reading profiles.

I know.

They're just sending it out.

Honestly, I think it backfires.

It's like you said, lack of attention at the end of the day.

Yeah, maybe it's going to take you so far, but it's not going to make a great career out of it.

And when you started talking about that,

and that's one part of your book that I loved, you wrote, check your ego at your mouth.

And then I was like, okay, I got to pay attention to this.

Because it's like, what does he mean and then you said what you just said before we're talking talking talking or you're listening listening but you're not really paying attention and then i was like yes

most people are listening to you but they are already thinking about their reaction Right.

That's usually when couples fight.

Like if I'm dating you and I say, oh, but you know, your lack of attention and I want to have more sex, la la, you're not listening to what I'm saying.

You're already thinking like, this is not what I want.

This girl wants.

You're already defending yourself in your head.

It happens all the time.

Yeah, especially with relationships, is I think, and this is sort of like

circling back to our technology piece, Kat, where

we sort of get stuck in a rut and we don't use the skills that we have.

They kind of go dormant.

And so, how technology sort of numbs us to becoming better at communicating, when you're in a relationship, especially a longer-term relationship, you get in this rut where you don't don't even feel like you have to listen.

You're just like waiting for them to like repeat themselves.

Like, oh, okay, let me wake up and I'll listen kind of thing.

So

anything we do in life, Kat, the more we do it, the better we're going to get at it.

So when it comes to relationships and communicating with your partner, the better you are at listening and being attentive to them, that will work out better in the long run.

I mean, again, we're all going to have days where we're not going to be able to listen or feel good.

I get that.

I'm just talking about a a general sense of purpose and being.

That I think the big thing, and I might write a book about this, but I do mention it in my current book, is about the fact of curiosity.

We've seemed to have lost the curiosity in other people.

Like we don't care about what other people think anymore.

And it's obviously become much bigger now with the polarization in politics in this country where all we want to do is listen to what people in our sort of sphere or silo are saying, saying, but don't care what other people are saying.

So if we were more curious about what other people are saying or doing, we would be a better place.

I've got a perfect example of this.

So I moved to Charleston, South Carolina a couple years ago, and one of the things that I noticed was I'm one of the few liberals down here.

There's a lot.

I'm your card-carrying New York liberal in Charleston, South Carolina.

But there's also the extreme of the right-hand part of the party, and that is the QAnon folks, the people who believe in conspiracy theories.

Now, as a card-carrying liberal, as I mentioned,

when I would see something like that about QAnon, I'd be like, oh, look at these people.

What's wrong with them?

So as I moved down here, I noticed that one of my neighbors was driving around this big, giant red truck that was emblazoned with the QAnon acronym across the top of it.

And so part of me is like,

what's up with this guy?

What's wrong with him?

And then part of me, the other part of me was like, well, what's he like?

Like, I don't know what he's like.

I just see the outside.

I see the big red truck that makes a lot of noise.

But

what is he really like?

So one day we just happen to be sitting by the pool in our complex and we have like a delightful conversation.

We're talking about wives and barbecue and the stupidest thing that guys talk about when they're sitting around drinking a beer by a pool.

Nothing about QAnon, nothing about Democrats eating babies or conspiracy theories.

It was just about two people having a conversation about life.

There you go.

And one of the things people don't do is they don't care about what different people do or say in life.

And if we do that more, we will be in such a much better place.

After that conversation, I was like, all right, well, that guy believes in stuff.

I don't believe him, but you know what?

He's a nice person.

But yeah.

He treated me well.

Yeah, you can still be cordial.

You You can still be friends and you can still agree to disagree.

But it's the famous problem, and I want to talk to you about this for a little bit, of assumptions.

And I think it has to do with what you wrote: like, check your ego and your mouth.

Because when you're having conversations with someone, I'm going to bring it back a little bit to the dating and relationships because that's my crowd.

Every day I get messages from people, and it has happened to me.

Like you're talking to someone, like you said, sometimes you're in a relationship for a long time and you decide, oh, I don't have to listen to my partner.

But many times you start dating someone for a little while, so you don't know them that well.

And then you think you're communicating well, you're talking to each other, and everything.

But one of the two is making assumptions in their head.

Like you gave an example about your neighbor, you saw the stickers in your car.

A lot of people would have said, Oh, I'm sure he's an asshole.

Fuck him.

And it happens a lot in people's minds.

Instead of spitting it out and talking, they make assumptions in their head about you.

Is there any way to,

and I and I get asked that question like all the time from my list, but how do, like, how do we communicate enough that that person actually understands who I am and what I am thinking instead of assuming they know?

Yeah, I mean, David Foster Wallace, the great, late, great writer, he gave this speech at a college many, many years ago, and it's gone down as one of the great commencement speeches of all time.

And I even quote it in the book: is about the importance of self-awareness.

We're really terrible at self-awareness.

Like,

you know, we've all been to the beach where it's completely empty, and then all of a sudden a family saddles up two feet away from your chair, and instead of just moving over and giving you space, we're so terribly self-aware.

And in his speech,

David Foss Wallace says, you know, when you see someone driving around this big truck, you might think, oh, God, what is this guy doing?

He, is he, is he, does he, doesn't he care about the environment?

Doesn't he know that's a gas guzzler?

But what you don't think is, why is he driving that truck?

Maybe he's driving that truck because years ago, they got into a bad car accident.

And now all of a sudden they feel safer in a big truck.

Which is just a great example of, and it sort of ties into the example of my neighbor as well, of just not understanding,

you know, it's the whole thing is you put yourself in other people's shoes.

I don't, I don't believe in that.

I think it's like everyone's different, so there's no way to put, I could never put myself in your shoes or anyone else's shoes.

I try to do that a lot in terms of feelings.

I don't know.

It works for me, like the way I behave with all of you.

I agree.

I think it works, Kath, but I think the one thing is like, you don't want to assume, like, oh, I understand what

a black or brown person feels.

No, yeah, that's what I mean.

There's no way you can do that.

I agree.

But you can be sympathetic and be understanding of that person.

Yes.

So I think the idea of just being more self-aware of being like, hey,

these other people are going to be different from me.

They're going to think differently from me.

And that's okay.

It's totally fine.

You're never going to be able to assume a person's identity or what they feel in life or how they act towards other people until you get to meet those people.

So in terms of assumptions, I think self-awareness plays a big part.

Just being aware of the fact that, hey, listen, the fact that this person lives or walks around in a certain skin or a certain way of dress doesn't mean that doesn't define a person.

That's not who they are.

To some people,

the way they dress and stuff is a big part of

how they define themselves.

But I think most people, it's like, hey, just because you wear a flannel shirt and boots doesn't mean that you didn't go to a college or, you know, or if you're wearing a suit doesn't mean that you're like the smartest person in the world.

These assumptions that we make are not good for anybody.

You know, we all have them, but we have to be better at getting around it.

It's a horrible idea.

I know people that broke up because one person assumed something about the other and it wasn't true.

What I say is open your mouth and ask.

Like when in doubt, a talk

that goes all the way back to communicating.

And I really, really believe in my heart, most people, not that they're bad communicators.

I don't know if they're lazy, but most people don't know how to communicate.

Like even couples, like if you want more sex and I want less sex, many times it's a matter of asking your partner.

partner or if you need space you know sometimes couples feel like a little overwhelmed too glued together and then they end up like blowing up and breaking up it many many times it's just a matter of looking at each other saying hi maybe you don't like what i'm gonna say but

I need a little more space.

Can we please take a break for a few days?

And a lot of people, as crazy as it is, they're afraid of

saying what they want to say.

We live in a society, and and I don't know if you disagree with me, please go for it, but I think we live in a society, a lot of people here, most of us are raised to, you know, be quiet, think before you speak, you know, don't be controversial, listen to what you're going to say, la la la la, and now, of course, with social media, everything blows up.

I think people are thinking, overthinking.

too much as opposed to expressing themselves more.

At least that's my view from doing the podcast.

I don't know if you agree or not.

No, I totally agree.

I actually write about it in the book about people getting out of their own heads and overthinking things.

We sometimes forget to make things simple.

We make things more complicated.

And to your point about relationships, Kat, I think this could be just like a societal change like we've been talking about.

That I think it's now too easy to break up a relationship,

to get out of a relationship.

It's just too easy.

Because in the olden times, you basically, your dating pool was the people in your town.

You know, it was, you know, if you lived in a small town, it was maybe, you probably had a couple dozen suitors.

In a bigger town, yet hundreds.

Yeah.

And now that dating pool is international.

Totally.

You can literally date anyone on the planet.

So now people are like, okay, this is, you know, it's not working out with each other.

It's cool.

There is no accountability.

That's the sad part.

Yes, I think the dating apps and the situation nowadays, the good news is, yes, maybe you meet somebody that you never would otherwise meet.

And if it works out, fantastic.

But like you said, the bad news is if you decide you want to change your mind,

in the past, I don't think our parents ever would have thought, or even us, like, I don't know how old you are, but 20 years ago when I was in college, if I wanted to break up with a boyfriend or something, you would literally look at the person in the face and say, sorry, blah, blah, blah, la la.

I would never think of calling someone and say, you know, by the way, I changed my mind.

Goodbye.

Like, and some people do it even worse.

Some people ghost.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

No, it's really bad.

I think, you know, talking, when we talk about the way people break up and everything, like, I will say, if you're in a bad relationship and you're not treated well, yes, please end that relationship.

I'm not talking about it.

I'm just saying,

it's just so easy now to find a thing like, oh, I don't like the way that person eats their food.

I don't like the way that person, you know, does this or that.

And it's like, listen.

We've got to give each other more grace.

Totally.

Don't stay in a relationship where you're not happy.

But sometimes we need to each give each other more of a break.

1 million percent.

I've been talking about it on the podcast the past few weeks

about this, how we became a culture of fast food dating.

Like you just said, somebody did something, maybe everything is going great, somebody does something you don't like, you're like next, because you're ordering people like pizza on this dating app.

There is no accountability.

I think a lot of people are losing the sensibility, the sensitivity, they're losing emotions because you don't even feel bad dumping someone over the phone or over a message i have girlfriends two days ago one of my friends she was with a fiancé the fiancé went on a busy fiancé they're engaged to get married he sent her a text message breaking up the engagement Wow.

48 hours.

Like, I felt bad because my boyfriend broke up with me on a three-minute phone call.

I thought it was pretty fucking lame because I thought everything was going great.

I thought he was a coward.

He should have, you know, but that's a whole other story.

But I'm thinking, if you're engaged, you're like spending time with the person and you don't have the balls to look at the person in the eyes or make a phone.

Like you send a text and you say, sorry, I changed my mind, Lila.

Like, seriously?

You totally not thinking about the other person's feelings at all.

Yeah, it is funny.

I always found, I mean, I've been with my wife for a long time, but I do find it funny.

How long, by the way?

25 years?

Wow,

that's rare and fantastic.

Yeah, I think it might be a little longer, but my math is, I'm not very good at math.

Maybe you guys can write a book about how to make a relationship lessons.

What I find funny, though, when people break up, how, and you know, to tie it into technology a little bit, is the fact that

they'll scream from the rooftops this love they feel for their partner, and like every Instagram post is about them doing this one thing.

And then the second they break up, they erase all of that from the Instagram.

They delete their life, yeah.

Yeah, and now, and to me, I find it funny.

It's like, how can you go from being with a person 24 seven and then all of a sudden be like, okay, now that it's over, I never want to remember that time.

I know.

I mean, I mean, unless something bad, again, okay, something bad happens, that's fine.

But if it's like, you just break up, like, what's the point of that?

Like, you can't erase the life that you had with this person.

Totally not.

It's very bizarre that people can just have

a mentality.

My suggestion, on my case everybody knows and you look at my Instagram it's all business business I never post anything about my personal life because of that I'm like okay if I am in a relationship like this case everything was going great great great in my mind obviously

so I have this 10 million pictures and videos with a person and he met all my friends my clients but I'm like thank god I didn't post

because now I would be feeling even worse than I did before if like instead of all my close circle of friends like 200,000 people out there saw, you know, everything.

Although there's like 70,000 people that listen to this podcast,

that send me messages.

But I just think at the end of the day, it should be common courtesy the way you communicate with people.

Period.

Be respectful, regardless of whether you met them on a dating app, a business event.

Like you said, if it doesn't work out, if you change your mind, I think you shouldn't use technology as an excuse to just not communicate properly.

No, absolutely.

I'm a big proponent of the golden rule.

I'm not a very religious person, but the golden rule is very important to me.

It's treat others as you want to be treated.

Always.

Yes.

And if we have that sort of mentality, whether it is in a relationship or just in life in general,

your life will be a lot better.

Oh, my God.

I know 1 million percent.

I say that every single day.

Even people that treat me badly, I still treat them with kindness because I think that's how I always want to be treated.

Yeah, you're 1 million percent sure.

We're gonna take a two-minute break.

I can't believe half an hour already went by.

And I want to talk about a few more super interesting things that I saw on your book that I think people would love to know about.

We'll be right back.

This is Joe Pardavilla.

Pardavilla.

Did I pronounce it right?

Pardavilla.

Pardavilla.

Parda Villa.

Pardavilla.

We'll be right back.

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Okay, we're back with this super interesting, intelligent guy, Joe Pardavila.

And I have so many questions about your book.

I'm going to try to squeeze in as many as I possibly can.

At one point, you talk about creating magical moments in conversation.

Now, my listeners know I use that word magical a lot.

I just like magical moments, magical conversations, magical, magical, magical.

Now, I think it's hard to plan.

I'm not sure if it's something we can actually plan and say, oh yeah, today I'm going to have a magical day.

I'm going to have a magical conversation.

So, can you give me your take on it?

And for those of people that are listening out there that haven't read your book yet?

Yeah, I mean, you can't plan, but you can prepare for a magic moment.

And what I mean by that is you can

be aware of who you're going to be speaking to, whether it's on a podcast, a job interview, a professional or private setting.

The more you know about that person going in, you can create magic moments.

And it happens all the time if you really just are

just focused on being prepared for that moment.

Because I think the one thing that we talked about the technology piece in the first part of our discussion,

the more we can disconnect from all of the other sort of extraneous sort of distractions that we have, That's how we can create magic moments because we're prepared and

we're living the moment.

We're not worried about anything else.

That's how those magic moments happen.

So having a little nugget of a little background on one person where you feel like, oh, I found this one little thing that I could bring up in a conversation.

That will open up all sorts of different things.

You see this trick, by the way,

television shows all over the planet do this.

So what they usually do is, and it's almost become like...

It's become like old hat.

So the shock value and sort of entertainment value has kind of fade a little bit.

But you'll see this in every TV interview.

They will have a celebrity on who's been maybe famous for their, like the entirety of their lives, and they'll find a TV commercial they did when they were six years old.

And then all of a sudden, you have this flush of excitement from the person who's like, oh my God, first of all, they went back and found this thing.

And second of all, look how stupid I looked when I was six years old.

So it creates a sort of moment for the guests where they're like, oh my God.

I can't believe you did that.

But also, my God, this brings back so many memories.

So you can do that.

And again, that's for a TV show, but just having, like, I said, finding a little facto, finding a little story about someone in the past, that can create a magic moment in your life, no matter what you're doing.

So true.

Preparation is key.

We talked about that already.

And in your book, you tell a super cute story that I would love to share here.

Not because we want to just like celebrity name drop, but I think that it's a very inspiring story.

It's very adorable.

It's all about taking chances.

And I always say that life is short.

Life is short.

Open your mouth and go for it and this is a perfect example it's something that happened with you and Jennifer Aniston I have had the pleasure of meeting her in person I've worked on a set where she was doing a movie and yes she is one of the biggest stars on the planet but she's very down to earth and she's very thoughtful and honestly genuinely very sweet so can you share

Yeah, absolutely.

And this sort of ties into something we talked about earlier in being fearless.

Yeah.

So early in my career, I working for a radio show in New York City, and it was called Scott and Todd in the Morning.

And I was sort of like their comedy reporter.

I would go out and cover events and stuff like that.

And one day, we got a phone call from a listener saying, Hey, Jennifer Anison is filming her brand new movie right across the street from your studios.

So, the guys from the show, Scott and Todd, said, Hey, why don't you go down there and interview Jennifer Anston?

I'm like, Yeah, right, I'm going to interview Jennifer Anston.

This was like peak Jennifer Anston.

Like, do you think Jennifer Anston is big now?

This was like

Friends, number one show in America.

The cast is on the cover rolling stones everyone has like the jennifer answer and rachel haircut and she was just huge so the the the thought of me even getting an interview was like nothing it was just like there's no way i'm ever going to get this interview so we head downstairs and uh and there's a just a you know one of those really nondescript sort of almost look like a construction trailer like you wouldn't even think it was like a hollywood star trailer it wasn't like it wasn't like a airstream or anything like that so get down down there and there's no one around.

This was like early in the morning and there was essentially one large human being, about six five, over 300 pounds, a very, very large bodyguard sitting in front of the trailer.

So I waited till he kind of like strolled away and I made a beeline right to the door of the trailer.

And as I'm about to get closer, the security guard goes, where the hell do you think you're going?

I'm like, oh, I'm just going to go talk to Jennifer Madison.

And he goes, no, you're not.

I'm like, oh, it's okay.

I work for Radio Station WPLJ.

It's fine.

I'll be fine.

I go, no, you're not.

So I was like, all right.

So I walk away.

I call up to the studio.

I say, hey, listen, Jennifer Anderson's security guard doesn't want me anywhere near her.

How are this going to happen?

So the guy's like, oh, why don't you give it another shot?

I'm like, all right, sure.

I was young, dumb, and, you know,

feeling I'm not sure about the dumb part, but that's okay.

Yeah.

So

I go over again to the trailer, and

the guy walked away, and I was like, all right, cool, here's my chance.

So I get a little closer, and then he turns around and realizes

this little white idiot is going to try to do this again.

I get over to the door.

He goes, where do you think you're doing?

Didn't I tell you you can't get anywhere near this freaking trailer?

And I was like, listen, I'm with PLJ.

It's no big deal.

We just want to do a quick little few minute interview with Jennifer Anson.

And he's like, no, you are not.

Meanwhile, Jennifer Anston has heard all this rumbling going on outside, me with my little squeaky voice trying to convince the bodyguard that I can interview her.

And she pokes her head out of the trailer.

And it was kind of weird because like, at that point, I'd only seen Jennifer Anston on TV in a magazine.

So, it's always weird, like, you get like sort of shell-shocked when you see like a celebrity.

So, it was like, I was like, oh, and she's like, what's going on out there?

I'm like, oh, I'm from WPLJ Radio.

I just want to interview you for Scott and Todd in the morning.

She's like, oh, I'm sorry.

I got to be on the set in a little while.

I don't think I can do any interviews right now.

So, maybe some other time.

So, I go back up to the studio, tail between my legs, and we go on with the show.

And then, all of a sudden, our receptionist rings the studio and she says, Hey, listen, there's a Jennifer Anston on the phone.

Hey, Jennifer Ans.

Yeah, hey, Jennifer Anson.

I'm not sure who this is.

And she said that you had your reporter down there and he got scared off by our security guard.

She'd like to apologize for all this going down and wants to make amends.

So we're like, and she's, oh, and the receptionist goes, would you like me to transfer the call?

And we're like,

yes.

Transfer that call.

Yes.

So we take the call and Jennifer Anston proceeds to just be this delightful person.

She apologizes for the whole hullabaloo.

We talk about her new movie career.

We talk about friends.

We talk about her dad, who just coincidentally just passed away.

She was a big soap star.

She was a huge

TV star.

I love him.

She's a soap star in the 70s and 80s.

And

just had this wonderful conversation.

And it was all because

I was...

fearless enough to try to you know risk my life and again I don't advise anyone to risk my life but I use it more of a as a point to yeah hey listen it's okay to take a few swings and take a few risks.

Because that's how good things usually happen.

1 million percent.

I always say that I think life is crazy short, and many times we just don't.

A lot of people are planners.

They always think about the future.

We don't know if the future is going to be there.

So I'm like, I always say, go for it.

Go for it.

I am so used to getting no's, no's, no's.

I'm constantly trying to get certain celebrities, people as guests, and they usually want to go to the most famous podcasts.

So I don't care if I get like 100 no's, 200 no's, just try it, and you never know.

Maybe you get like this amazing story that happened to you and some very special magical moment that you're never going to forget for the rest of your life, right?

Yeah, and absolutely.

And another magic moment actually happened because of Jenna Franciscan as well, because a couple of years later, we had John Mayer at one of our Christmas shows that we used to do for a children's hospital in Westchester, New York.

And he showed up in the morning.

And John Mayer, even though as big a story as is, he's always like the most unassuming dude.

Like he will show up to a gig with like

a friend, like a rogue carrying around his guitar.

And so he came in and he sat on this little stage that we had for him in front of the kids.

And I usually, when the guests come on to perform, I usually stand up there with them and warm them up and get them ready.

And all of a sudden, he takes out this little piece of paper with handwritten lyrics to All I Want for Christmas is You, the Mariah Carey song.

And

I was like, it doesn't look like a guy's handwriting.

It was really neat.

Not that there's a way guys write or girls write, but it just didn't look like something he would write.

And so he said, oh, oh yeah no no um my girlfriend and i stayed up last night because i wanted to do a christmas song but i just didn't know any off the top of my head so she transcribed the lyrics to all on christmas you off the radio and it was her

yeah and it turned out that it was jennifer andiston at the time his girlfriend he said my girlfriend did this last night um and so because i was curious because i was 100 engaged in the moment i was like Well, that's really cool.

Do you mind if we auction that off?

And he goes, yeah, as soon as I'm done, because I need the lyrics to sing, but once I'm done, we can auction off.

So, we ended up auctioning off and got $5,000 for the children's hospital.

It was all because of the fact that I was totally living in the moment, totally aware, totally focused, paying attention to all my surroundings, and be like, Hey, listen, there's something there there.

And a lot of times, we don't trust our gut.

We really should.

Again, die up to fearless, your gut, all these things that don't have

there's they're more intangible than tangible skills that you have that

it just create another magic moment, and it was all just because I was paying attention.

Yes, 1 million percent.

And I think many times people are just afraid.

They are so afraid of rejection.

I think most of us, we're so afraid of hearing, like, no,

I'm famous.

Yeah, that you stop on your tracks and you think too much before you speak.

I'm kind of like the opposite.

I think if you have nothing, like if you don't have an answer, you have nothing to lose, basically.

Ask.

And sometimes, yes, of course, people are going to say no, but sometimes something fantastic happens as the stories you just told, right?

Yeah, I mean, absolutely.

I mean, coming from the world of radio, you know, I always, my boss always said, the worst thing someone can tell you is no.

I mean, there's really nothing, I mean, nothing.

It's

no will not kill you.

No,

you already have the no, right?

You already have the no.

You got to keep pushing and pushing and pushing.

And some celebrities are really sweet about

helping.

So, yeah, that's fantastic.

Now, before we run out of time, because there's so many things in the book, and you do talk a lot about podcasting, and you do do a lot of consulting about podcasting.

I want to talk a little bit about that.

Now, there are millions of podcasts out there.

I think Apple podcasts alone is more than two million.

I'm not even sure, but there are millions out there.

It's a blooming industry.

It's growing a lot.

I think it's fabulous because I've been doing mine for almost three years.

I really enjoy doing it.

I think it's a great project.

But what I want to ask you is, and if you disagree with me, it's totally fine.

I try to listen to as many as I possibly can to educate myself and to find out what else is out there.

And I know my style is very different from most people, but many, many times I start listening to a podcast and I get really, really bored after like two, three minutes.

No offense to anyone, but it's hard to keep someone's attention for like a whole hour.

So do you have any

tips?

or ideas if someone out there is listening to us maybe they're already a podcaster maybe they want to start a podcast is there something magical

that makes it for a great host?

Well, first of all, on your initial point, I will push back slightly because

I hear this a lot about there's too many podcasts in the world.

And I feel people only say that just because of its low barrier of entry and a lot of people are trying it.

I mean, it's very easy.

You know, an iPhone and a laptop,

and you could interview basically anyone on the planet.

But no one's ever said, hey, are there, There's too many songs out there.

There's too many movies.

There's too many TV shows.

No one ever says that because there are and with podcasting it's the same it's just another medium where there's just a lot of content out there and like anything most a lot of songs they're not good a lot of movies they're great but some are bad so there's going to be some great podcasts and there's going to be some not so great podcasts and the ones that you see on the itunes chart every day they're usually the same people because they've they're the best at what they are it's just like you know every year the yankees in baseball are always going to be good because they built this and in podcasting the same all these great podcasters are going to continue to do well, but it doesn't mean that a team, you know, for example, like the Houston Astros or, you know, name what other sports team that you don't expect to win a title, they win.

So you can win in podcasting, but you just have to go and do it.

And as long as you love doing it, I mean, that's my rule number one when talking to people.

Don't do it just because everyone else is doing it.

Don't do it because you think it fits your brand.

Don't do it because someone said, hey, you could be a podcaster.

Do it because you love it.

If you don't love it, what's the point?

And then if you love it, who knows?

Maybe something does come of it.

I agree.

And I think, at least in my experience, the audience feels if you have passion for it or not.

If you're really enjoying the conversation, because conversations flow if you're having fun with your guests, right?

And I think in my case, my audience notices that.

They're always sending me like, oh, I like the feedback is usually positive.

Of course, there's a lot of people there that don't like it, but it comes with the territory.

But usually people say, no, it's very organic.

It's very honest.

It's very upfront.

I talk a lot about my life.

That's probably why I'm still single because a lot of men are very intimidated.

The first question they ask me, they're like, are you going to talk about me on your podcast?

You're like the Taylor Swift of podcasting.

Everyone's afraid to talk about it.

Oh my God, I never thought.

Well, but you know the answer.

If you're a good person, you shouldn't be afraid because I'm going to say great things about you.

If you're an asshole, if you're a player, you're probably going to become a really good story.

So only like the people with bad intentions should feel bad about it, right?

I like that.

I'm going to start marketing myself as the Taylor Swift of the podcast.

Maybe I become more famous faster.

Thank you, Joe.

It can't hurt, yeah.

There's actually a funny, there's a Taylor Swift story in my book, and this is actually kind of, it kind of dovestail in what we're talking about.

So a few years ago, Taylor Swift was coming into our studio.

And as you might notice, a lot of radio stations nowadays, they want content as well, even though they're an audio medium, they want video content as well.

So, a lot of radio stations started video recording their interviews with celebrities.

They're posting on their social media, YouTube, info, and the like.

So, for some reason,

they came in with one rule: you can video record the interview with Taylor Swift, but you can only video record the first five minutes.

Okay.

And I'm like,

So, you mean like we could post only five minutes, the best five minutes?

That's cool.

They're like, no, no, no, no, no.

You can only record the first five minutes, and then you have to stop.

Oh.

And you may be asking yourself

why they do.

I don't know.

And honestly,

I think it's just because she's Taylor Swift and can do whatever she wants.

So to me, as a radio broadcast, I was like, what the heck?

Why am I doing this?

The first five minutes is going to be like, you know, camera ready or something.

And as you know, like in any kind of interview, the first five minutes are usually shit because the person is getting a lot of fun.

Yeah, you're warming up.

Yeah.

you're warming up nothing ever good happens in the first true true so this really annoyed me so the morning of she comes in with her team and my the i'm standing uh about about eight feet away from her and the videographer is standing next to me so she can he can get a clear shot of taylor swift on the video camera the publicist walks in behind taylor swift

does a beeline right to the videographer taps him on the shoulder says hey just uh just a just a heads up just so you know um when we hit the five-minute mark i'm going to tap you on the shoulder you put the the video camera down.

So I couldn't let this go because I have trouble letting things go.

So I go to the policist.

I'm like, oh, just a quick question about that.

If we get to the five-minute mark and we have a follow-up question, can we keep recording during that follow-up question?

Like, oh, yeah, I guess so.

You know, we'll see what happens.

I'm like, cool.

And I couldn't

let it alone.

But what if we have a follow-up question to that first follow-up question?

Will we be able to keep recording?

And the publicist starts to become all befuddled, like, yeah, I guess so.

And then, of course, me, again, not letting anything go, say, and what if we have a follow-up question to the follow-up question that follows up that follow-up question?

Will we still be able to record?

At this point, the publicist is like, head spinning, eyes are going all glassy, not knowing how to answer.

She's babbling.

And if clear across the room, Taylor Swift goes,

well, somebody woke up feeling saucy this morning.

Really?

And the room went silent.

Like, I didn't even know she was paying attention.

She was on the other side of the room talking to the other people on our show, talking to her people.

And I was like, oh, boy.

And so we start the interview, and during the entire conversation, Taylor Swift is staring at me with dagger eyes, expecting me to say something

offensive, over the line.

Oh, my God.

And it created this space where she didn't feel comfortable answering questions.

So she basically gave the old, you know, generic answers to questions about songs and relationships and

according to the money.

So funny.

And it was all because I put myself first.

You want to create an environment where the guest is like the people that come to your house.

And we all have this.

We have two sets of friends.

We have the set of friends who will ask us to go into your fridge to grab a drink.

And then there's a second set of friends who will literally go into the fridge themselves and take the last beer.

Yeah, yeah.

You want to create that experience where you have the ladder.

Whenever you have a conversation with someone, you want them to feel so comfortable that they will go into your refrigerator and drink your last beer.

I didn't do that for Taylor Swift.

Well, but I mean, you didn't do that for her because they already came like with, you know, rules.

In my case, it would be tough.

And I tell my guests ahead of time because I tell them, I'm like, look, it's not edited.

It's not like whatever we say is what I'm going to drop because my podcast is like a lifestyle.

I want to do it like real life, you know, like real life conversations that you can't like.

If you make a mistake, you've got to keep moving on.

And I know a lot of celebrities don't like that because they want to have complete control about their image, about their they say, and everything.

So I know it scares some people away.

So you should, but you lay it on the table though.

That's right.

Yeah, I do.

I lay on the table.

Yes.

You're in front.

Hey, this is how we do things.

Yes.

It's unedited.

It's basically live to tape.

Exactly.

But in my situation with Taylor Swift, I didn't create that that experience.

I created an experience of like, oh shit, what's going to happen here?

Because this guy's being a dick.

So that's something you need, as long as you're completely transparent with people beforehand, make them feel comfortable.

Yeah.

That is going back to our magic moments.

I would never be able to create a magic moment with Taylor Swift in that conversation with you.

Not that day.

Yeah, that day threw herself off.

Yeah.

I think a lot of people, they're not used, like you said, they're not used to listening to something that they didn't plan.

Especially celebrities, they have these big teams.

The team comes up front and they're like, do this, do that, don't do this, don't do that.

They only have so many minutes and they love it.

They feel powerful, la la la la.

So if you throw that off balance, it affects what because they expect something canned and organized, right?

And that's what seems that happened that day.

But that's life, though.

Yeah, I agree.

I agree.

Take out Taylor Swift for your cousin or your co-worker.

Like, if you don't create a safe place, and I know that word gets gets kind of thrown around a lot, but for lack of a better word, if you don't create a safe place,

you're never going to be able to create these magic moments that we talk about.

You're never going to be able to connect with someone on a different level just because once those walls are up, there's no way to tear them down.

Yeah, once the person decides that they don't feel comfortable with you, they're going to hold back or they're going to feel uncomfortable.

But I have to say, in the past, I have

held back.

Like at some one point or another, I had a guest that they just said something absurd that I didn't agree with or something stupid.

And in order to not put them on the spot in the middle of the podcast, I decided to keep my mouth shut and I kind of regret it later on.

What is your opinion on that as hosts?

Like if there are other people there who are hosting the podcast or wanting to start, do you think it's a fair game to ask anything like in the middle of the podcast?

Or if you feel that you're going to make your guest uncomfortable, should you shut up?

Well, I mean, I think this all goes back to what we've been discussing about creating these safe spaces,

being prepared, making the person feel welcome.

If you do all that, that question that you may be afraid to ask maybe won't be that difficult a question because the person feels comfortable and safe.

So, in that situation, I'm not sure what you were going through leading up to that question, but maybe you had created this environment where the person was willing to talk about whatever.

And whatever you threw their way,

they would have been comfortable asking and answering.

So, again, it all goes back to all the work you do prior to that moment.

So, in your case, if you were prepared for the interview, we're having a great conversation, it was open-flowing discussion, asking that question probably wouldn't have been quote-unquote offensive or anything or surprising because that person would have felt prepared and safe in that moment.

So, yeah, it's okay to ask tough questions, but it's also

incumbent to you to make sure that they're able and safely

feel like

they're in a good spot where they're with a friend, where like it's like you know how some friends you can say some things to another, like you give shit to one friend, but you can't give shit to the other.

You've got to, in a very limited time, create this sort of environment where you can give them shit, but it takes work getting there.

It's like you have to earn that.

And it's like that in real life, too, right?

It's like that for real life relationships.

You have to earn that.

In the beginning, like thread

with caution.

Which leads me to the next question, which is a little more on the personal side because this podcast is about sex, dating, and relationships.

You've been married for a long time, especially nowadays, like 24 years, 25 years, whatever.

That's a very long time being able to communicate to our person any like little secrets or suggestions.

I know you wrote in your book that it's about moderation.

Can you elaborate a little moderation or not on saying what you want to say?

Yeah.

So in my radio station back in New York, there was a sign, and it was just three words.

It said preparation, concentration, and moderation.

We've talked about the preparation piece, being prepared for the moment.

Concentration.

Again, being there, getting out of your head,

living for that time, not thinking about anything else.

And then the moderation.

is being able to

being

you you take those two first two pieces and then you just take your time getting to where you want to go.

For example, like your tough question that you were regretful that you didn't ask.

Well, if you were if you had practiced moderation, you would have been able to ask that question at the right time because you got there.

You weren't in a rush, you didn't decide to ask this crazy ass question, question number two.

The person felt safe, you could do it later on in the conversation, you can do it.

So, moderation is a big key.

So, when it comes to relationships, those three words are pretty

perfect

for having a relationship and having conversations with

your significant other.

Preparation.

Be prepared.

Know how they're feeling that day.

Know their foibles.

Know their attitude.

Know their smile, their body language.

Be prepared for that.

Concentration.

Be there in the moment.

Don't be looking at your phone.

Don't be watching TV.

Be there.

Oh, yeah.

Totally.

Pay attention.

Take your time.

Take your time and savor those moments you have

with your partner.

Because a lot of the stuff we've been talking about, it's great for podcasting, it's great for having conversations with work, but a lot of these abilities and things that you can become better at,

they call them soft skills.

I didn't even know what that term meant, but like these soft skills that we can get better at.

And I think those things apply to a romantic relationship are just as impactful as in a business or even a family relationship.

Yeah, I think so, Chuan, like you said, if you're in a long-term relationship, like in your case, many times you know just by the way the person moves or smiles or doesn't smile, you know their body language.

But I think when you start dating someone, it's even more important to communicate clearly as opposed to make assumptions like, oh, let me guess what's inside her mind.

Let me guess, because that's where mistakes are made.

It's so important to like look at the person's eyes, right?

And and ask questions or talk if you have any doubts about it yeah and creating that safe space between the two of you where you know how sometimes couples will get an argument where people say like hey how are you feeling you're fine like well you're not fine well if they don't feel comfortable telling you why they feel that certain way you're gonna have this friction point of like i feel fine don't worry about it so because maybe they just don't feel comfortable saying that, oh,

I had a bad interaction at work.

I just don't want something, you know, something you did.

I just want to talk about it.

So it's really just making sure that both of you are comfortable sharing ideas, sharing feelings.

And, you know, that's, it's sometimes work.

You know,

I hate to use the word work, like, you know, relationships are hard work, but

substitute it for any word you want.

It takes effort, it takes time because it just doesn't happen.

You can't have a great relationship just by doing nothing.

Totally.

So when people fight back, I'm like, well, a relationship shouldn't be work.

Well, Should a relationship be nothing?

Like, no effort?

Because that's not a relationship.

I think it should be good work, fun work, kind of like building a house, right?

It's something that you really want to have.

So you put it up.

Like making money, like building a business, anything.

It should be fun because it's something you want to have.

But I do agree.

If you don't open your mouth and talk to the person and say what you want to say and what you feel, I think reading minds is a horrible idea.

And that's where the problems begin.

Don't try to read the person's mind.

Yeah, but also, you may not want to read the mind, but also be open to like, hey, if this person's in bad mood,

leave them alone for a while.

Yeah, give me space.

Let it be.

Yeah, totally.

So, after so long, do you have any secrets like how you keep the sparks alive, how you keep the romance going?

Well, I mean, I think it's important to be intentional, like we talked about, like

the quote-unquote work part of it, and like making sure that you set time aside, having date nights, being

respectful and paying attention to what the person has to say.

Again,

we started this conversation talking about technology distractions.

We're so distracted by so many different things.

But

we can, when it comes to relationships, we need to tamp that down.

We need to keep that away because there's no way to have a good relationship if you're so easily distracted.

If you have like that shiny key syndrome where, you know, if your partner walks in the room and they start talking and you're like, oh, wait a minute, there's something good on TV.

And all that's going to happen.

We're all guilty of it.

But the less frequent you do that, and the more intentionality you have in caring relationship, that's how you keep a relationship strong and going.

It's like the fact that you're both willing to put the effort and be intentional in whatever you do, setting time aside, listening to the other person, giving them space when they need it.

All of that stuff is the, again, the alchemy, the chemistry that goes into making a great relationship.

Intentional is key.

Do you guys do maybe like date nights?

Absolutely.

Something to keep the sparks flying.

And it's just honestly,

if you ever notice, like whenever you have set up a vacation, like you have like that date circle in your mind of like, oh my God, I just got to get through these next two weeks because my vacation's coming.

That's how you can handle a relationship as well.

Just be like, hey, man, this next week's going to suck.

Work sucks.

But hey, Friday night, we're going to have fun.

We're going to do this.

So I think giving these sort of mile marker posts that you can look forward to, I think, is also great for a relationship because it's like, oh, man, all we got to do is, man, we could be getting on each other's nerves all week, but like, hey, once we get to Friday, we're going to have fun.

So, set up those little moments where you can have something to look forward to.

It doesn't have to be anything crazy.

It could be just maybe just going out and getting a cup of coffee.

It could be just going out for lunch, or it could be having it going to a dinner and a show, doing something elaborate and expensive, but you don't have to.

I love that.

I think that's a great idea.

I think every couple, regardless of how long you're together, you got to keep the romance, you got to keep making plans.

And like, that's the theme of this episode communicate don't let the cell phone and like the era of fast food dating and everything be in the middle of how you communicate with your partner because I think that's key for almost everything in life right the better communicator you are the less problems you're gonna have yeah and it's almost like the our podcast point you're gonna you're gonna want to have to do it you're gonna want to love being in that so if you don't love this person no matter what all the intentionality doesn't mean anything so so it is and then podcast.

If you don't love doing that podcast, it's gonna be

a good relationship.

If you don't love the person, love what you're doing, all the other stuff, you could be you could try your ass off.

You could work your ass off.

It's not gonna happen unless you love the person.

I think anything in life, if you do it with passion, you're gonna see great results.

That's my outlook in life.

Even if you start dating someone, maybe you don't love them when you start dating them, but if you put passion and effort into it, chances are much bigger that it's gonna work work out than you just like half-fast, do it.

You know what I mean?

It's like with podcasting or anything in life.

If you're gonna be a podcast, don't have fast, just go for it.

Make your audience, or like you say, your community.

I love that you say community, make your community feel like you really want to be there for them.

Put everything you have into it, right?

It all starts with the passion.

Yeah, it all starts with the passion.

The passion for whatever we talk.

Like,

we could switch out passion for many other words, but as we talked about, when it comes to doing a podcast, podcast, when it comes to interactions with folks, if you're not passionate about being there that moment, having this conversation,

doing this podcast, maintaining a relationship, if that's not there, the rest matters not.

People notice.

Exactly.

The rest matters not.

This was so amazing.

I can't believe we're out of time.

Thank you so much.

The book is super fun.

I highly recommend it because it's a quick read and packed with information and interesting stories.

And they find it anywhere, right?

Amazon,

absolutely.

Amazon, Noble, Target, Walmart.

You just type in good listen, and it's available on paperback, e-book, and also audiobook if that's your thing.

And where do they find you if they want to reach out?

Because I know you do consulting for podcasts, right?

If they want to learn more about it, absolutely.

You could hit me up on mostly LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram, or just Google me, Joe Pardavila.

And I'm pretty Google-able.

You're very good.

You could find me if you want.

You're awesome, Joe Pardavila.

And this was a super fun cat on the loose.

Let's communicate more people,

right?

Thank you, you're amazing.

I really appreciate it.

This was great, and I hope to see you back soon.

This was a great cat on the lose for you guys.

Tuesday, have a wonderful week, be safe out there, and I'll be back very soon.

Thank you so much, Joe.

You're great.