Welcome to Hollywood - a Survival Guide by Entertainment Attorney Paul Miloknay

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Speaker 3 My guest today, Paul Milochni, is one of the most successful entertainment attorneys working in Hollywood.

Speaker 3 And he wrote a really cool book called Welcome to Hollywood: a survival guide for aspiring writers and for everyone and anyone interested in working in the entertainment industry and actually succeeding.

Speaker 3 It's a really fun read, very easy to read, very quick, but packed with essential, crucial information. So you don't fall in the wrong hands and make amateurish mistakes.

Speaker 3 I hope you guys enjoy this really fun, great episode with the super talented Paul Milaknai.

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Speaker 2 Paul, welcome to Canon Daloo. Such an honor having you here.

Speaker 4 Oh, thank you. I know it's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 2 I know how busy you are, so I'm very grateful. So, let's talk about your incredible book, Welcome to Hollywood.

Speaker 2 But first, I want to, for people that don't know you, that never heard about your work, you've been an entertainment attorney for a really long time.

Speaker 4 Over 25 years now.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. So, you've seen it all in this industry?

Speaker 4 Pretty much.

Speaker 2 Pretty much.

Speaker 2 So, how did you decide you were going to write a book?

Speaker 4 It came really spontaneously, but

Speaker 4 kind of from a couple of places. One, I've always had a soft spot for the younger writers,

Speaker 4 the ones who are just starting out.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 sort of the flip side of that was frustration because when I would work with younger writers, they usually came to me with a lot of problems.

Speaker 4 that they could have avoided fairly easily if they knew what to do.

Speaker 4 So that's really what inspired me to write the book and sort of, you know, to sort of guide people through that process and avoid, you know, some costly mistakes.

Speaker 2 Yeah, which a lot of people make for sure. But I know you wrote it as a survival guide for aspiring writers.

Speaker 2 But when I was reading it, and I think I mentioned it to you, I think it applies to pretty much anyone that wants to work in the entertainment industry because it's very, very good advice and very good ideas on how to navigate the industry

Speaker 4 well thank you and and

Speaker 4 truth be told i uh originally intended it to cover all different fields and uh decided to you know just focus in on writers uh for the time being and i uh i anticipate doing more books for directors actors influencers and those type of people so welcome to hollywood is probably going to be a series of a bunch of books that's my hope yeah amazing okay so let's start with this one welcome to hollywood for Aspiring Writers.

Speaker 2 Although, like I said, anybody out there who is interested in working in the entertainment industry, or even people who are not, that want to know the behind the scenes, this is really awesome.

Speaker 2 And I like it that it reads really quickly because nowadays people have like the attention span of like a few minutes, right?

Speaker 2 But I love how it's like very fast-paced. I literally read it like the same day, very quickly, but you packed up a lot of information there.

Speaker 2 So first question, 25 years in the industry, like you said, you met probably dozens and dozens and dozens of writers. And like you said, you see them making a lot of mistakes.

Speaker 2 Is there like one top primary mistake that people trying to get successful in this industry make?

Speaker 4 That's a good question because there's a couple things jump to mind. One really obvious one is

Speaker 4 that failing to get something in writing.

Speaker 4 Surprisingly, you know, people enter into verbal arrangements all the time, and they are enforceable.

Speaker 4 So if you think it's not important or, you know, it's just talk, you know, you could have unwittingly created a contract

Speaker 4 with someone.

Speaker 2 But how do you prove that?

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 4 that's the trouble. And that's

Speaker 4 why you need to get things in writing because the writing proves what you agreed to.

Speaker 4 So I tell writers, you know, if they can't get someone to sign something,

Speaker 4 at a minimum, send them an email and get them to reply to it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, instead of like talking on the phone, right?

Speaker 4 Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 4 You know, even if you have a phone conversation,

Speaker 4 confirm it with an email right after. It doesn't create a contract, but it's good evidence of what you guys agreed to.

Speaker 2 So you think some people get here and they have, let's say, a great script or a great book

Speaker 2 and they fall in the wrong hands and they get promised a lot of because, unfortunately, this industry has a lot of con artists, right?

Speaker 2 A lot of amazing, wonderful people, but yeah, a lot of con artists. So, they promise you the Sun, the Moon, and the stars.

Speaker 2 And obviously, a lot of people fall for it because they see the dollar signs and they're seeking success. And then, what do they do? They give this person the script,

Speaker 4 yeah, they'll give them in one way or another, they'll give

Speaker 4 this, we'll call them a producer,

Speaker 4 you know, either an option, which involves paying money.

Speaker 2 Right, we're going to talk about that. That's one of my questions, but hold on.

Speaker 4 Or what's called a shopping agreement, where it's just basically the free right to shop the project to different buyers.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 yeah, if you get in business with the wrong person, they'll tell you everything you want to hear

Speaker 4 in order to get their hands on your work for free.

Speaker 2 I also heard, and I don't know if that's true because it never happened to me, but when I was, you know, because I wrote a script out of my book and a bunch of people told me, be careful, don't tell everybody about your project because they will literally steal your idea.

Speaker 2 Like just talking to someone, oh, I wrote a book about blah, blah, blah. If they think it's a good idea, they'll just go and plagiarize your work and do it first.

Speaker 2 Have you ever heard of stories like that? Does it really happen?

Speaker 4 They're rare, but yeah, that does happen, you know, which is why people use NDAs and other types of things to protect their work.

Speaker 4 I always recommend that

Speaker 4 if you have an idea, write it down in as much detail as you can and register it with the Writers Guild.

Speaker 2 Oh, really? Even people that are not a part of the Writers Guild?

Speaker 4 Yes, anybody can submit to the Writer's Guild. It doesn't give you any membership membership rights,

Speaker 4 but it is a good way to establish that you came up with the idea first.

Speaker 2 Oh, wow. See, even I didn't know that.
So I'm going to go register my ideas. I don't even know if I've shown you that.

Speaker 2 That's a very good one because

Speaker 2 it's a very competitive industry and I know everybody's out there. You know, they want to make money.
Now, so that's the next question. How do you know you're not falling in the wrong hands?

Speaker 4 Well, sometimes it's hard to know. If someone intends to deceive you they'll probably get away with it at least for a while but you can do your homework you know there's um

Speaker 4 you can look on imdb uh pro

Speaker 4 which is a paid service from amazon but um it's worth it it's about a hundred and chances like 10 bucks it's 10 bucks a month i agree it's so worth it And you can look up who they are, what they've worked on, who they're connected with.

Speaker 4 And,

Speaker 4 you know, if they don't have any kind of profile, you know, you can.

Speaker 2 That's very suspicious, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah, you should probably, you know, move on.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's a really good one. I agree.
I use it all the time. And

Speaker 2 I think 99% of the people that work in entertainment have a good IMDb profile, or at least everything that they worked on there, right? Even

Speaker 2 and I know a lot of people don't know that they think this is a directory just for actors, for talent, but it's not true. It's also for like people like you.
Yep.

Speaker 4 Attorneys, agents,

Speaker 4 PR people.

Speaker 4 Yeah, anyone who's connected to

Speaker 4 talent or production will be in there.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's fantastic advice as well. I completely agree.
Now, somebody, you know, thousands of people show up here every week, every day.

Speaker 2 I think a lot of them think it's easy, right? We've heard that. That's one of the quotes that I love from your book, the famous quote,

Speaker 2 overnight success in hollywood takes 15 years

Speaker 2 and i think a lot of people get here and i think you mentioned that in the book they're like oh i'm gonna give this a year or something i've heard many people say that like i hear 20 something year olds say like oh but i've been trying so hard it's been like two years

Speaker 4 it's usually not enough time i mean unless you get incredibly lucky um

Speaker 4 it's gonna it's a process, you know, building your resume, getting people to know you, getting people to respect you as an artist. And

Speaker 4 there's no shortcut for that.

Speaker 2 I agree. There are the rare cases, yes, of people that have become overnight successes, but that's a very rare exception, correct?

Speaker 4 Well, usually when you hear about an overnight success, it has been years in the making. They just don't tell you that part.

Speaker 4 You know, the PR people and the agents, you know the agents especially want to make you believe they conjured success out of nothing and uh

Speaker 4 you know no disrespect to agents but um

Speaker 2 you know that's you know very rare for a better story yeah of course very rare so i would just say to these people that get here full of hopes and dreams and a lot of them don't know anything about the industry they just think they're gonna make it big and it's gonna be easy and it's going to be a quick process.

Speaker 2 What would be a first, reasonable first step? Like you got here and you, because that's one thing, right?

Speaker 2 A friend of mine who is an Oscar winning, I'm going to connect with him, an Oscar winning movie director, he said

Speaker 2 that everybody tells him, I have an Oscar winning script.

Speaker 2 I have an award-winning story to tell. Everybody thinks their story is award-winning.

Speaker 2 So, okay, what would be a first step for somebody that thinks they have an award-winning story and wants to succeed?

Speaker 4 Well, I mean, it's a relationship business. And so probably the first thing I would advise is start looking for

Speaker 4 representation. And then also beyond that, just building a network of,

Speaker 4 you know,

Speaker 4 friends, you know, people who can help you in the business.

Speaker 2 But, Paul, that's really tough, right? Like, I agree, it's totally about relationships, but like people that get here,

Speaker 2 well, we know I've been here now back many years. I grew up in this industry.
I left for 15 years during my marriage. Now I'm back.

Speaker 2 God knows how hard it is to build these relationships and, like you said, knock on doors and have people listen to you, even listen to you, because competition is so insane.

Speaker 2 How do you make that happen?

Speaker 4 Again, there's no shortcuts.

Speaker 4 I advise, you know,

Speaker 4 if you're trying to say, get a manager, is to do your homework about the managers who handle your kind of material.

Speaker 4 Because some will specialize in animation, some will specialize in horror,

Speaker 4 you know, so you want to get with someone who fits

Speaker 4 what you write.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 once you've got a list of those, and I say just, you know, send a query letter.

Speaker 4 Tell them who you are, you know, briefly and, you know, what you're working on and ask if they'd be interested in reading anything Don't send the script with your first correspondence So is is this considered a solicitation because I know a lot of these managers

Speaker 2 Agents all the big cheeses of course There's even on their websites It's like no soliciting. We don't care.
Don't send unsolicited materials. We're not gonna read it the big agents.

Speaker 2 They're even like we're gonna throw it in the trash. We're not gonna even open it.

Speaker 4 No, that's why you have to ask first.

Speaker 2 So, you send an email just saying, Would you be interested in reading something?

Speaker 4 Yeah, you give them a little, you know, a log line, some little description of what the project is.

Speaker 4 And, you know, obviously, you want to write it in a way that's compelling and makes them want to read it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So, kind of like just cold trying it, you think? Just reach out, reach out, reach out. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And then it's a numbers game. I mean,

Speaker 4 you know,

Speaker 4 it's kind of like dating. I mean, if you bat 100,

Speaker 4 you're doing well.

Speaker 4 But,

Speaker 4 yeah, I don't think there's any shortcut. I mean, get out and, you know, meet people, go to all the industry events you can get yourself invited to.

Speaker 2 Network, network, right?

Speaker 4 Just, yeah, keep track of people that you meet.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 You know, people who you think can help you,

Speaker 4 you know, follow up.

Speaker 4 You know, that's key.

Speaker 4 And,

Speaker 4 you know,

Speaker 4 do something to get their intention.

Speaker 2 I think that's where having major thick alligator skin in this industry is crucial.

Speaker 2 Because if you don't deal well with rejection, if you don't deal well with people telling you no, I think this industry is not for you. Do you agree?

Speaker 4 100%.

Speaker 4 It's a failure business. You know, just like I said, one in 10, you're doing great.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 You know, you have to be able to accept rejection. And for writers, also just

Speaker 4 criticism. You know, a lot of people are going to have

Speaker 4 criticism of your work.

Speaker 4 And I think you got to be emotionally mature enough to accept it. And when appropriate, use it.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I agree. I mean, I always say I get messages from people all over the world asking me, obviously, in my case, they ask a lot about the podcast.

Speaker 2 How did you get there no no no because how do you get guests and all these things and this is what i always say i think i get maybe a hundred no's 200 no's for one yes

Speaker 2 yeah but i be i maybe because i grew up in this industry i don't really care it doesn't really affect me every no is more like i see it like you know as logs of wood in my fire that keep me going that's the way i describe it in my head oh you know okay that person that said no to me one of these days they're going to be begging me to come here.

Speaker 2 But, you know, that's the way I think. And it's the same when I audition for a part.
I think I get one movie that I really want and I don't get two, 300.

Speaker 2 But you kind of got to understand that it's part of the game. And it's the same with writing, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah. Well, I tell my clients all the time, you know,

Speaker 4 their script will go out to a bunch of places and you get a bunch of passes. And I remind them, it's like, well, you only have to get one person to say yes.
Right.

Speaker 4 You know, it's the trick is finding that person.

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Speaker 2 So, how does it work? Can you explain for people that never shop the script around? Because you just mentioned it doesn't mean you have to send it to one person.

Speaker 2 You can shop it around to several different people, correct?

Speaker 4 Yep. And depending under the circumstances, sometimes they'll shop it to one person or they'll give one person sort of a first look at it

Speaker 4 because of the nature of the relationship or they think that that is a likely sale.

Speaker 4 But generally,

Speaker 4 you know, and like, especially if the agent's trying to create a bidding war, they'll send it out to a bunch of people at the same time.

Speaker 4 And,

Speaker 4 you know.

Speaker 2 And do they tell these people, like, by the way, we're shopping this around and all of you are seeing it?

Speaker 2 Yeah. And that's what makes the price go up.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's crazy. If you get two or more people interested, exactly.
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Speaker 2 Okay, so can you explain? Because I know you wrote about that in the book, but I know a lot of people don't know what that is.

Speaker 2 You mentioned at the beginning, what does it mean to get your work optioned?

Speaker 4 Okay, so

Speaker 4 an option is a right to purchase something,

Speaker 4 in this case, a script,

Speaker 4 for a set price, a pre-negotiated price, within a set period of time.

Speaker 4 So if I'm optioning your script, I might pay you, you know, $1,000

Speaker 4 to

Speaker 4 $1,000 to have an option for 12 months. And that would, and during that 12 months, I'd have the right to take the script around town.
And you couldn't allow anyone else to have any rights in it.

Speaker 2 And it doesn't mean you're going to do anything with it. You can decide

Speaker 2 to publish if it's a book. You can decide to make a movie.
It's a movie. Right.
You're just buying time basically with that script. Exactly.

Speaker 2 And then after the 12 months, if you did nothing to it, then the script goes back to the person.

Speaker 4 To the writer, exactly.

Speaker 2 And then the writer can go and shop that script around.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Does that happen a lot?

Speaker 4 Oh, absolutely. You know, where one company will option a script and

Speaker 4 not be able to get it set up or packaged properly with the right acting talent and director or whatever it might be.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 they'll just let the option expire. And at that point, the writer's free to option it again to whoever they want.

Speaker 2 Do you think most scripts in Hollywood stay unpublished or not not made? Movies are not made of them and they just get optioned and go back to the person, the big majority?

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 You know, I would say,

Speaker 4 you know, some of these places get hundreds, if not more, scripts per week.

Speaker 2 Really? Oh, my God.

Speaker 4 And, you know, they pass on well over 99%.

Speaker 2 Oh, wow. So basically getting your script sold and turned into a movie or getting a book published is like winning the lottery.

Speaker 4 Yes, someone actually did the odds on that, and it's not too far off. It's extremely difficult.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. I don't want to discourage anybody out there, though.

Speaker 4 Me neither, but you know, something I talk about in the book is that the bar is incredibly high.

Speaker 4 You know, it's good is not good enough. You know, it has to be great.
It has to really stand out

Speaker 4 and be memorable.

Speaker 2 So any tips? Like, because I know you mentioned something about that in the book.

Speaker 2 What makes a script stand out from others? Any ideas?

Speaker 4 Well, they have to be well written in the sense of, you know, they're looking for certain things when they read a script, like a three-act structure, for example, and things like that.

Speaker 4 But, you know, most scripts have that.

Speaker 4 Beyond that, it's something,

Speaker 4 you know, something intangible.

Speaker 4 I just know it when I see it. And I think a lot of readers say the same thing.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, you said I forgot the exact phrase you wrote in the book, but you wrote something like that, that you just know when a script, scripts and you don't know what pops.

Speaker 2 You just know something pops.

Speaker 4 I don't think I could explain it to you. No, it's just something, it's a combination of things.

Speaker 4 I think it's, you know, the pacing and the dialogue and the twists and turns and how it holds your interest and, you know, how it makes you feel at the end, you know, especially.

Speaker 2 It's just, I guess, some people are better writers than others. I don't know.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
You think so? Yeah. And so if somebody comes to you and you do read a script, like one of your clients, and you know that it's really, really, really bad, do you tell them?

Speaker 2 I wish people could see your face.

Speaker 4 No one likes to

Speaker 4 be the bringer of bad news.

Speaker 4 Usually I'll be polite. Yeah.

Speaker 4 You know, but I'll never come right out and say this is terrible.

Speaker 2 That's the problem because you're too nice. Well, the manage, that's the manager's job.
That's the manager's job. Yeah.
And they will probably do that, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah, they have to.

Speaker 2 By the time they get to you, it's usually because you're doing the deal.

Speaker 2 Your job is you're an entertainment attorney. So by the time a client gets to you, it's because they have something going on major.

Speaker 4 Yeah, usually there's, I don't get involved until there's a deal to be made.

Speaker 2 And that's when you come in. And so usually your clients are, their scripts become movies.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And books and all that good stuff.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 2 Oh, okay. So you deal with the chaim de la chaim de la chaim de la chaim.

Speaker 4 Well, not always. You know, again, I wrote the book for people who aren't there yet.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like us, 99.9% of the population, but we will get there. I want to talk about this Japanese concept that you explained in the book.
I know you love Japanese culture.

Speaker 2 And I do too, but I don't know a lot about it. The little I know is I learned from you.
And I think this part is fascinating.

Speaker 2 So I I want you to explain to us, it's this concept called, and tell me if I'm pronouncing this right, Kaizen.

Speaker 4 Kaizen. Yes, that's right.

Speaker 2 Kaizen.

Speaker 4 Right. Yeah.
Kaizen is

Speaker 4 the concept of

Speaker 4 creating massive change in tiny little increments.

Speaker 4 And the way I think of it, you know, for a writer, for example, is to write a few pages every day.

Speaker 4 You don't need an eight-hour block of time to write a script.

Speaker 4 What you need is consistency. And,

Speaker 4 you know, I think I give the example in the book, if you write three pages a day

Speaker 4 in

Speaker 4 a month, you have a 90-page manuscript. Yeah.

Speaker 4 So it accumulates really quickly.

Speaker 2 I mean, and writing, and I think it can burn, you know, it's very tiring, right? And it can make you feel burned really quickly.

Speaker 2 And I think a lot of writers make the mistake of trying to finish very fast. And I don't know, I think we talked about it one day.

Speaker 2 I personally think it's unrealistic to sit on a desk and say, I'm going to write eight hours today or six hours

Speaker 2 a day, right? But I've heard of people that try to do it. Yeah.
You know, but that's probably what ends up not being a great

Speaker 2 result at the end.

Speaker 4 Well, I will say every writer has their own process

Speaker 4 and, you know, you sort of whatever works for you. But someone who just sits at a desk for eight hours, I guarantee you, they're not writing for eight hours.

Speaker 4 You know, nobody can do that.

Speaker 2 It's just too crazy, too much time. Yeah.
But this concept, I think, applies for anything in life, right? Absolutely. Don't try to conquer the world in one day.

Speaker 2 Just do like, even I think the other day I was thinking about this guys and when I was trying to exercise

Speaker 2 now I'm trying to lift weights weights again. And I thought, it's the same thing.
If you try to have like this perfect body overnight, you're not going to lift like the heaviest weight.

Speaker 2 But if you start like tiny, tiny bits every day, like after a month, after two months, after three months, you actually have a big improvement.

Speaker 2 So I actually started applying this for like everything in my life, you know, little bits and pieces every day.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it

Speaker 4 works for everything.

Speaker 4 And,

Speaker 4 you know, the key is consistency.

Speaker 2 Yeah, consistent. So, but but if somebody,

Speaker 2 you're saying only the few get published. Of course, it's such a tough industry, so much competition.
But I don't want to discourage anybody out there because I really believe in going for it and

Speaker 2 trying and trying and trying, even if it takes 10 years. But

Speaker 2 do you have any words of encouragement for new writers? Like if somebody's out there, I'm going to give up. This is too difficult.

Speaker 2 Maybe they did shop their script around and didn't, you know, get anywhere.

Speaker 4 Well, like you say, it's not easy.

Speaker 4 It requires a lot of persistence

Speaker 4 and,

Speaker 4 you know, like you said, a thick skin.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 people do it. People do it every day.
You know, and why can't one of those people be you?

Speaker 4 You know, I think everyone should try. I think everyone's got at least one good story in them.

Speaker 2 I agree.

Speaker 4 And if you want to be heard, you should just do it. You know.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. Even if you start like as a side gig, right? If it's not paying the bills, start on the side as opposed to giving up, but just keep going for it, right?

Speaker 2 Your clients in general, how long did it take them to actually get a script sold?

Speaker 4 I mean, it really varies. You know, there are some that, you know, it took 10 years.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 4 I just made a deal for a client who

Speaker 4 sold a script that he wrote 22 years ago.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God.

Speaker 4 And it's been around town at different times. And,

Speaker 2 you know. It's going to be a movie now or a book?

Speaker 4 A movie.

Speaker 2 A movie. And do you know why, like,

Speaker 2 this would be around for so long before somebody decides to do something with it?

Speaker 4 It could be anything. You know, there's trends, you know, sometimes everyone's looking for police procedurals.

Speaker 4 Sometimes everyone's looking for, you know, multi-camera comedies.

Speaker 4 Also, you know, just social mores, you know, like

Speaker 4 in this particular case, the main characters are Indian.

Speaker 4 And so there's a different culture involved there. You know, at different times, people weren't looking for that.

Speaker 4 Now,

Speaker 4 people are more open-minded.

Speaker 4 But I've had clients who've

Speaker 4 sold stuff like right away and it still

Speaker 4 usually takes two or three years for it to go into production.

Speaker 2 After you sell?

Speaker 4 After you sell.

Speaker 2 Okay, so you don't want people to think like, okay, I sold my script today. I'm going to have this movie like six months from now.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, most options are for 12 or 18 months with a right to extend for more, you know, another 12 or 18.

Speaker 4 And,

Speaker 4 you know, so count on it. And sometimes they extend from that, you know, so count on it taking at least three years.

Speaker 2 And what's the average price for an option of a script?

Speaker 4 Could be anything.

Speaker 2 Anything? Like, can you give us a ballpark so people have an idea how much money they're going to make?

Speaker 4 For beginning writers, it could be anywhere from a dollar.

Speaker 2 A dollar to

Speaker 4 say $10,000.

Speaker 2 That's it? No, like, oh, wow. A dollar? No, come on.
Why would anybody option a script for a dollar?

Speaker 4 They shouldn't. They shouldn't.

Speaker 4 It's basically free, which I, you know, you should never give your work away for free. Right.

Speaker 2 You do mention in the book that sometimes, and I do agree with you on that, like many times we look because

Speaker 2 the talent, whether it's writers, actors, whatever it is, we look at the managers,

Speaker 2 at everybody else, like we are doing them a favor. Like, we have to beg them, you know, like represent me, please.

Speaker 2 But it shouldn't be like that. No, because you're talent.

Speaker 4 If you're good enough, you know, you're doing them a favor.

Speaker 2 Right. Because they're going to make money from you.
Right.

Speaker 4 You're the, you're the

Speaker 4 employer in that relationship. They're the employee.

Speaker 2 So if somebody offers you, like, oh, I'll give you like a hundred bucks for your script, whatever, it's usually like a red flag, isn't it? Yeah.

Speaker 4 I mean, if they're not willing to, if a producer's not willing to put money and have some skin in the game,

Speaker 4 there's not much incentive for them to do anything with your material. They'll just be taking it off the market for whatever period of time.
And,

Speaker 4 you know, when you could be doing something else with it.

Speaker 2 But let's say someone has an incredible script. It does happen that it doesn't get option.
It gets bought right away, right?

Speaker 4 Sometimes, rarely.

Speaker 2 Rarely? Yeah.

Speaker 4 Oh, really? Yeah. Oh.

Speaker 2 I did not know that. So it's most of the time scripts get optioned first.
Yes. Oh, okay.
I did not know that.

Speaker 4 And I mean, and there's been more of a movement in that direction,

Speaker 4 you know, over the years. You know, in television now, they don't even option scripts.
They do what are called if-come deals. So they don't pay you anything unless they sell it to a network.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. So they just get it?

Speaker 4 They just get it for free. And that's how the the business works.
If you want to be in business with the big studios, that's what

Speaker 4 the most junior writers have to deal with.

Speaker 2 Oh my god, that's you. You actually wrote something in the book.

Speaker 4 Yeah,

Speaker 2 I didn't want to forget to ask you that. Yeah, you say there's actually a big difference between

Speaker 2 credit

Speaker 2 as

Speaker 2 and written by

Speaker 2 and created by. Correct.
Like if you get credit written by

Speaker 2 or if you get credit created by.

Speaker 4 It's a little different than that.

Speaker 4 Credits are very confusing, especially in television.

Speaker 4 In television, the best credit to get is written by.

Speaker 4 And that means you wrote both the story for

Speaker 4 the pilot episode and the teleplay, which is based on the story.

Speaker 2 Does that mean you're going to get paid more money?

Speaker 4 Sometimes, yes, depending on the terms of your deal, but usually, yeah, if you get created. And whoever gets written by credit on the pilot script gets awarded the created by credit on the series.

Speaker 2 Oh, wow. So, I mean, all of these things are very intricate, very complicated.
That's why you should... have a great entertainment attorney if you are in the point of selling your material, right?

Speaker 4 Absolutely.

Speaker 2 Don't try to do everything by yourself.

Speaker 4 No, I mean, get help, you know, at the earliest possible time.

Speaker 4 You know, the book is for people who aren't able to do that. It's not easy to get good representation right off the bat.

Speaker 4 You know, you need to get your material to them first. It has to be great.
And,

Speaker 4 you know, so that

Speaker 4 takes a lot of work.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but you do give a lot of great practical ideas, especially towards the end of the book, how people can do that. So I highly recommend if you guys want to know more, get a book.

Speaker 2 It's on Amazon, it's on Barnes and Noble, it's all over the place, even on your website, on Instagram. It's Welcome to Hollywood book, because you do tell people like a lot.

Speaker 2 I don't even remember all of them, but you say, do this, do that, do that,

Speaker 2 go to this website, go to that. There's very practical ways of how to getting your materials in front of the right people, even how to get the right representation.

Speaker 4 That's right.

Speaker 4 You know, I go through all of that. I try to keep it pithy and made it hopefully a fun read.

Speaker 2 It was. It was really fun.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 yeah, and hopefully informative for everyone who reads it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, for sure. Have you ever seen a script from one of your clients like being bought for a lot of money right off the bat?

Speaker 2 Or can you tell us like what was the biggest project you ever seen your client sell?

Speaker 4 I could tell you a little bit. Okay.

Speaker 2 Spill the tea.

Speaker 4 I've had a couple of clients who hadn't done anything prior

Speaker 4 who sold their scripts for a good amount of money.

Speaker 4 The biggest deal on the movie side that I ever worked on was

Speaker 4 years ago, but it was a bidding war.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 my client had created one of the first animated internet series. This is back when it was Internet 1.0.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 yeah, there were like

Speaker 4 three or four studios competing for the project

Speaker 4 and

Speaker 2 that was a wild day what was it almost never happened can you tell us the name of it uh no because i told you a little too much already you can't tell us the name of any of your clients can you like any big movies that sold for a lot of money um

Speaker 4 I'd rather not.

Speaker 2 Can you tell us what was the amount or like the script that you've seen that got sold for the most amount of money? So we can all dream big.

Speaker 4 Sure.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Let's dream big.

Speaker 4 I've had clients sell scripts for between two and three million.

Speaker 2 Okay, see, so there is hope in the horizon.

Speaker 2 Two, three million. I cannot imagine what kind of story that must be.
Well, they're

Speaker 4 the movies that justify those kind of prices are usually blockbuster,

Speaker 4 you know, superhero movies and

Speaker 4 things like that.

Speaker 2 So whoever reads it, they know, okay, this movie's going to make a pile of money.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you know,

Speaker 4 basically. People are paid to know that stuff.
I don't know if

Speaker 4 they actually do know anything.

Speaker 2 Is there anything trending right now that you think that you would recommend aspiring writers to work on more?

Speaker 4 I wouldn't try to follow trends at all. I would write what's, you know, what grabs you, what's important to you.

Speaker 4 You know, because the writing will speak for itself. I think you try to follow trends, you lose the thing that everyone's looking for, which is, you know, a strong emotional core.

Speaker 2 Originality.

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 2 hopefully. New stories, something nobody ever heard before.
I kind of like, do you remember?

Speaker 2 That's one that always comes to my mind when I think about scripts, because I do think that's like one of the most typical and fabulous Hollywood stories. It's the Ben Affleck and Matt Damon, right?

Speaker 2 The script they sold, uh, Goodwill Hunting.

Speaker 2 That was like,

Speaker 2 I think, I forgot. I remember I read the story that they sold it for a lot.
For them, it was so much. They were both broke.
They were both so young.

Speaker 2 One was sleeping on the couch with the other in the other's apartment. I don't even remember the details, but they sold for like a significant amount.
Do you remember how much it was?

Speaker 2 But it was significant amount.

Speaker 4 I don't remember the price, but it was a significant amount.

Speaker 2 It's a significant amount that they were like, oh my God, I can get out of my friend's couch. I can pay my bills.

Speaker 4 And it went all the way to the bottom. There's a story behind that.
I mean,

Speaker 4 you know,

Speaker 4 I think it was Rob Reiner.

Speaker 4 It was set up with Castle Rock and Reiner

Speaker 4 helped them rewrite the script. It went through a long process of rewrites.
It's turned into a completely different story than it started as.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, but it made it all the way to the Oscars, right? And it transformed their lives. So, I mean, I think that's a good inspiring one for everybody to dream.

Speaker 2 We can all get there, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's what I said. You know, people do it all the time.

Speaker 2 People do it all the time. So don't give up.
Don't get discouraged. I think this is a very fun, fantastic guide for anybody.

Speaker 2 Like I said, I know it's for writers, but I was reading from my actor's perspective. And a lot of the stuff you wrote, I'm like, yes, this is right on point.
Be careful who you trust.

Speaker 2 Don't give your work for free. Get the right representation.
I mean, look at the red flags. It's fantastic pointers.
It's like you said, it's a little survival guide.

Speaker 2 So I absolutely love the congratulations. Well, thank you.
It's really fun. And any idea when you getting another one out?

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 4 I'm talking to my law partner about that right now.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 we're thinking of making the next one for influencers.

Speaker 2 I can help you with that one. I can co-write.

Speaker 2 Because, yeah, that's a really tough world. Oh, my God.
Yeah, they definitely need a guide. So, yeah, that's a fantastic idea.
Congratulations. Welcome to Hollywood Book, guys.

Speaker 2 If you're listening to the audio episode, make sure you go to my YouTube channel so you can see Paul and you can see the cover of the book, Cat on the Lose Podcast.

Speaker 2 And if you want to get a copy, it's crazy affordable. It's fast, easy to read.
So everybody has time.

Speaker 2 You can buy, I like the hard copy because when I'm reading a book, you know, I make notes, I highlight like the

Speaker 2 Kaizen. Yeah, if you see my books, they have 10 million notes and everything because I apply some of them to my life like this.
Kaizen, Kaizen, Kaizen, Kaizen.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so, but if you don't want to buy the hard copy, you have the Kindle as well, which is even more affordable. So go for it and follow your dreams and don't give up, right, Paul?

Speaker 4 That's right. Don't give up.

Speaker 2 Don't give up. And when you're ready for an attorney, here you are.

Speaker 4 I'm available.

Speaker 2 And I'll be ready for you soon. We're going to sell my script.
I know we will.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much, Paul. It was such a huge honor having you here.
I know how busy you are.

Speaker 4 Thank you for being very grateful.

Speaker 2 Thank you for being on Canada's. I'm very grateful, very honored.
Guys, be safe out there and go right. Go win some Oscars.
And I'll see you very soon.

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