#1067: July 30, 2025

Red alert, red alert, red alert, red alert, red alert, red alert, rattler, red alert, red alert.

Knowledge fight.

Dan and Jordan, I am sweating.

Knowledgefight.com.

It's time to pray.

I have great respect for knowledge fight.

Knowledge fight.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys.

Knowledge my fight.

Dan and Jordan.

Knowledge fight.

I need, I need money.

Andy in Kansas.

Andy and Kansy.

Stop it.

Andy in Kansas.

Andy in Kansas.

It's time to pray.

Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.

Thanks for holding us.

Hello, Alex.

I'm a fifth-time caller in my house fan.

I love your room.

Knowledge fight.

Knowledgefight.com.

I love you.

Hey, everybody.

Welcome back to Knowledge Fight.

I'm Dan.

I'm Jordan.

We're a couple dudes.

Like to sit around, worship at the altar of Celine, and talk a little bit about Alex Jordan.

Oh, indeed, we are Dan.

Jordan.

Dan.

Jordan.

Quick question for you.

So, what's your bright spot today, buddy?

My bright spot today is actually kind of a dark spot-ish, maybe.

I don't know.

Okay.

This Popeye thing was a big mistake.

Oh, no.

It's bad.

It's bad?

Bad stuff.

How bad?

I've watched one.

I've had time to watch one of them.

And I've watched Popeye's Revenge.

Sure.

And

it does not follow any of the mythology of Popeye's.

That's not hard to believe, but okay.

We started off the movie, and first problem,

it's in the UK.

This doesn't make sense to me.

No.

This seems very wrong.

Yeah, everyone's got British accents.

That's a terrible idea.

Yeah, very.

You've already failed.

That didn't feel great.

Right.

Because also, he's like, Popeye's in the Navy.

Yeah.

He's a sailor man.

The Navy.

Yeah, so he's a kid who has giant arms.

Right.

And then he's like,

he kills someone at school, and then the town kills him.

They're like, ah, Frankenstein, pitchforks.

Okay.

They come after him and they try to kill him.

Okay, okay.

So the kid has monster forearms.

Big arms.

Tennis arms.

Yes.

Right.

Smashes somebody and then the village is like.

He doesn't know his strength.

Of course not.

He's just a Frankenstein's monster.

He's just a boy.

Yeah, okay.

I gotcha.

Yep.

So then he comes back as a ghost?

Yeah, his parents locked him in a basement, and he has a sister named Olive Oil uh who's also locked in the basement that's no good and then uh the town kills them and then he comes back for revenge sure on these people who have done

i mean yeah yeah no i whatever you you have you got to do something with your life it's fucking dumb but i was watching it and i was like all right i got a checklist yeah we've got to have a pipe sure no pipe there's a pipe okay yeah he has a pipe okay

check okay

um corn cop no

there is a can of spinach that makes a brief appearance.

Right.

But he doesn't have to eat spinach in order to be strong.

So that sucks.

So they're showing the spinach for the real Popeye heads in there.

It's like an Easter egg for the people who know the Popeye story.

One of the kills involves him

throwing a canister through a window and it's a spinach can.

Right, right, right.

Like it's a gas can or something like that, but it's spinach.

Fucking stupid.

He doesn't say any like, I am what I am

or any of that.

Yugga-gu-gug.

Nothing like that.

Nope.

No, boy.

And

there's no Brutus.

There's no Wimpy.

Olive Oil was forced as a sister, not a lover.

It's very forced, because that's kind of the idea is that she's a love interest, but, you know, in that 40s way.

Yeah.

And I thought, like, this is going to be fun.

It wasn't.

It wasn't fun.

No.

No.

But you can still watch the other ones.

I think I still am going to, but I regret.

Are they separate, or is this the is this the ongoing tale of Popeye the British non-sailor boy?

These are they're all separate.

Okay.

And I think that is what makes me interested in it.

The anthology nature of this character being put into a bunch of different situations?

Well, no, I think, okay, so all of them are going for a cheap pop.

Sure.

Right?

They're all like, it's legal to make a movie with Popeye in it.

That's what we're doing.

So all of them are doing that.

Yes.

And they're hoping that this shit will just coast on the fact that it's like, it's a horror movie with Popeye and it isn't.

You didn't see that coming.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

100%.

Except, like, they're not the only ones doing it.

Right.

Like, you know, if there were four different Sharknado movies at the same time, you would have to judge them against each other.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's true.

That is the one thing about copyright IP is that it's like there's at least one person or at least one vision behind this thing, as opposed to being a bunch of people creating their own visions to fight in a deathmatch.

Yeah.

But more to the point, like, if there was one person who was stealing this IP and getting away with it, then

they could just be like, well, it's the Popeye horror movie.

Sure, sure.

Especially there's a bunch of them.

Yeah.

Now it's like, well,

you might not be as good at ripping this off as someone else.

That would be a real...

Or it would be a hit to the ego if you weren't already doing something something that should be a hit to the ego, right?

You know, like the by virtue of making a Popeye movie, like, oh shit, it's in the public domain.

I gotta make it.

I gotta make it.

It's kind of like, well, I'm not creating my own characters.

No.

And it's British.

Yeah.

She's not in the Marines or in the Navy.

Yeah.

I mean, it's called the Navy.

It's not called the Royal Navy.

Yeah.

Popeye would not be.

He's not British.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We know one thing.

He's not British.

No.

He's not on the HMS fucking anything.

He does not respect the Queen.

No, no one should.

So what's your bright spot?

My bright spot, I'm going to have to go with tennis.

Oh, boy.

No, the Cincinnati Open's been weird.

There's a Cincinnati Open?

Yeah, the Western and Southern Open.

That feels such a downgrade from some of the other Opens.

Do you mean like Monte Carlo or Madrid or any number of other things?

Cincy.

But I'll tell you this, I went there for one year, and it's a lot of fun.

I got to see Serena.

I got to see Federer.

It's really cool.

It is, of course, tennis in Cincinnati, Ohio.

So

you get what you get.

Sure.

Cincinnati doesn't suck.

It's not like a terrible city or anything like that.

No, but it's compared to Madrid.

What are you talking?

Come on.

I even like Cincinnati, but not like Madrid.

Yeah, tennis to me seems like something I associate with some kind of like...

pretty rich

locale.

Sure, sure.

That's why it's weird.

Right.

But yeah, no, it's great.

And then this tournament has been a real kind of weird one.

The heat is making everybody die, naturally.

Tennis has got a long future ahead of us for about five years until climate change ends it forever.

It'll all be indoors.

It'll all be indoors.

Yeah.

But yeah, and then in the final, though, we're getting Alcoraz in center.

And it's happening again.

It's going to happen over and over and over again.

It's the two of them versus everyone else in the world.

How long does that stay interesting for you?

Forever.

Yeah.

Djokovic and Rafa played like 50 times, and the two of them playing was always going to be one of the most amazing things because

it is only ever possible to play as good as the person you're playing against.

You know, like if you want to play the best, you have to have a partner who can equal you.

Yeah.

And so every time they have to try and equal each other, and in so doing, they have to create something that hasn't been there before.

Right.

And it's just fantastical.

True rivalries rivalries can you can see them a hundred times.

It doesn't matter.

Absolutely.

Because you're not, you're like, this person made this great shot in another match, and that's cool.

But in these matches, this person made this great shot, and then this person got it back.

And so they have to then up their game even more in order to make that next shot.

Yeah.

Right.

And so that's the level that you'll never going to see against anybody else.

That second.

Oh, it's great.

Yep.

I can do it all the time.

What's Cincinnati, is that like one of the top tier tours?

It's an ATP thousand, yeah.

Like, how many are in that tier?

Um, I think somewhere in the like 10 to 15 range.

Wow.

So there's the there's 250s.

Those are the lowest levels for

still professional tour.

Below that is the challenger level.

That's where you're not in the actual cool kids' table yet.

That's where it's like CT.

Yeah.

You got to get your points up to get in there.

Yeah, basically.

Playing against turbos right there.

Yeah,

Then there's 500s and then there's a thousands.

And then right above that is the majors.

So

it's pretty cool.

10 to 15.

So there's like Madrid.

There's Monte Carlo.

Yeah.

Cincinnati.

DeKalb.

It might be more like six or seven.

But it could be.

I don't know.

I'm having a weird.

I don't even know how many months there are in the year anymore.

I think eight.

Oh, shit.

Too many.

Jordan, today we have an episode to go over.

All right.

We're going to be taking a little bit of a jump from where we were.

And because we have the world is in such a place that we cannot dwell forever in Alex's back and forthness

on Epstein.

Although, as much fun as it would be to see him try and waffle around and figure out how to play every single breaking ball.

For weeks.

We are jumping to July 30th.

And

this is a monumental day where Alex has a debate.

and we'll check in on that here in a second.

Does ChatGPT have a new model out that we're debating?

I wish.

That would be amazing.

ChatGPT, should I leave Trump?

Does he love me?

Yes, and no.

Chat GPT, what is love?

So we'll get down to this, but first, let's take a little moment to say hello to some new wonks.

That's a great idea.

So first,

Splat, Mark, RJ.

Some call it globalism.

I call it sling blade thank you so much you're an ah policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thank you very much thank you next winner big ding dong adult thank you so much you're an Iowa policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thank you very much thank you and foxel as in pixel or voxel not like the spanish he the thank you so much you're an aho policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thank you very much thank you and we got a technocrat in the mix store so thank you so much to J Dog Big D thank you so much you're an aho a technocrat I'm a policy wonk four stars go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant.

Someone sodomite sent me a bucket of poop.

Daddy Sharp.

Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent.

He's a loser, little, little kitty baby.

I don't want to hate black people.

I renounce Jesus Christ.

Thank you so much.

Yes, thank you very much.

So last we left off, Alex was, he'd made it pretty clear that there wasn't really much that was going to shake him from supporting Trump.

Doesn't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Can't.

Going to give him an F, though, whenever he needs it, although that F will have no consequences or meaning whatsoever to it.

Nope.

He's going to get a participation trophy for presidenting.

100% of the time.

And that's good enough, and that's criticism.

So

we experienced a good 10 days of Alex trying to figure out what he was going to do, how he was going to thread this needle.

Trump called him stupid.

Trump called everyone who, I don't want your support anymore, you fucking idiots who care about Epstein.

And Alex was able to get past that.

So it seems like.

Just a little blow-up, just a little dust-up, you know.

Yeah, he was a little mad.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So since this point,

things have deteriorated even more.

I can't believe that.

We have such things happening as Ghelane Maxwell is talking with the Department of Justice.

Sure.

She's been transferred to a minimum security prison.

Wow, she's a good person.

Against the wishes of Epstein victims' families.

There were no victims' families, I believe, if I recall the FBI correctly.

It's, well, I don't know if they said there were no victims, but there was no

actionable things for them to do or something like that.

But either way,

she is

dangerously close to a pardon.

Oh, yeah.

And that's pretty tough.

Simultaneously, Trump has come out and said that he stopped hanging out with Epstein because he stole Virginia Guffray from him.

He phrased it incredibly poorly.

No, it was great.

That's what you want to hear from the sitting president.

Yeah,

he phrased it in a way that her family was a bit shocked and dismayed by the idea that the president was aware that their child was stolen.

Yep.

So everything's bad.

Alex is trying to stay above water.

And there is one person who's delighting in all of this.

And that is the person that Alex has unfortunately made too good of friends with.

Oh, God, it's Fuentes, isn't it?

Oh, it is.

Oh, my God.

So on the 30th in the evening, Alex sits down for a special debate with Nick

about what do we do?

What do we do?

Actually, you know what?

That's a fair debate.

I would actually be way more fine with more debates if they were just like, what what the fuck is happening?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So Alex has a situation

where Nick has this fuck Trump attitude.

Yeah.

Alex kind of wishes he could get there,

but also can't.

So the two of them are going to have a little conversation where they hash out all the beats of what to do.

This is the most

Nazi version of, it's fine to be a punk whenever you're young, but I have kids at home to feed, so I can't do all of this stuff.

But also you're Nazis.

Yeah.

And also I really want to do all that punk stuff.

Yeah, I really want to be a cooler Nazi.

Oh, also, I forgot the other thing that has happened is that the Wall Street Journal published a letter that Trump allegedly wrote to Epstein,

which was a little drawing of a naked lady.

Yep.

And the pubes were his signature.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

And did you actually read the contents of that note?

I did not read the contents of that note.

You didn't?

No.

Listen, what am I going to do with it?

I'm already sold.

Like,

once you've sold me, you can stop selling me.

I was way past Trump was a pedophile a long time ago.

There's no amount of words

that are going to make that even better or worse.

Okay, so I'm going to read this to you.

Okay.

Fine.

Because I think you need to confront this.

All right, fine.

So it's written as a dialogue.

The note.

That was for Epstein's 50th birthday.

The note written by the president for the Epstein.

We have to say allegedly because he did sue the Wall Street Journal for publishing this.

Oh, God.

All right, let's do it.

Voiceover.

There must be more to life than having everything.

Donald, yes, there is, but I won't tell you what it is.

Jeffrey, nor will I, since I also know what it is.

Donald, we have certain things in common, Jeffrey.

Jeffrey, yes, we do, come to think of it.

Donald, enigmas never age.

Have you noticed that?

Jeffrey, as a matter of fact, it was clear to me the last time I saw you.

Donald, a pal is a wonderful thing.

Happy birthday, and may every day be another wonderful secret.

So, uh, yeah, it's a it's a little suspicious.

That is

weird.

That is a note that could only be written by somebody who was a fictional globalist in Alex Jones's worldview 20 years ago.

That note doesn't exist in the real world.

So I assume that we have been transported into some sort of last-action hero version of reality where everything is an amplified version because that cannot be real.

It's one of the weirder things that's ever, ever been published.

And they've

stood by their reporting.

Of course they have.

What else are you going to do?

Look at it.

And so, you know, if real, that's one of the most fucked up things.

It's all the more believable because of how bad and stupid it is.

You would have to be an insane person to write that.

You couldn't fake it because

that's so specifically insane.

Yeah.

You cannot fake that.

I couldn't, if I had a million monkeys writing a million typewriters, we'd get to Shakespeare, but not that shit.

That's crazy.

Yeah, no.

People have said that, you know, there's some great scripts out there that have been written.

Yeah.

They capture something.

Yeah, this is very Chekovian, I would say.

Impossible.

So Alex is, you know, these are the things that are swirling in the background

that people are talking about, and Alex is like, ah, fuck that.

Ah, shit.

So why not have Little Baby Nazi come in to

look right?

So Alex starts off, and the position that he's coming into this with is like, eh, jury's out on Trump.

I don't know about it.

23, four days ago, Trump put out that Justice Department memo.

I said, Trump's behind it.

People say, oh, you're attacking Trump.

And then he came out later and said, no, it's me.

Don't ask questions.

Shut up about it.

And I said, this is incredibly suspicious.

And now they're running around with the Justice Department, meeting with Gislane Maxwell.

It looks bad.

But people have taken what I've said out of context when I'm wargaming this because I think they would have used information against Trump if they had it before.

But that said now, the jury's out on Trump.

The jury's in on the Democrats and Epstein Island and Bill Gates and Larry Summers and all the rest of it.

So I'm not an apologist for Trump.

All I get is persecuted and attacked

for supporting President Trump.

And I've seen clips of Nick.

I played it earlier before he came on.

And I'm not saying it's a wrong critique, but out of context, you could see it.

No, I'm looking for the truth.

And my issue is,

do we throw out Robert F.

Kennedy Jr.

and Tulsi Cabard and all the good things that are happening?

If stuff comes out that he's screwing kids with Trump, of course, I'm going to expose it.

I mean, I'm not tied to that wagon.

But in the larger issue, is the Epstein issue the only issue?

And it's not like Nick Fuentez just came out and said, I'm against Trump now.

He said it a year and a half ago.

He was a big supporter early on.

That's how I met him nine years ago.

I think Nick's a smart guy.

I agree with most of the things he says.

Disagree with some.

So

we are having a large discussion.

You call it a debate here, but I want to be 100% clear.

I will go where the facts lead.

I'm not an apologist for Trump.

But at the same time, we need to recognize that the Democrats and the ADL and the Republicans joining him do not want this discussion.

They do not want Nick Jay Fuentez on Rumble.

They do not want Alex Jones on X or Infowars.

They do not like this tonight because they don't want you to hear a real, real, unfiltered discussion.

So the fact of the matter is that Alex can say he's not an apologist for Trump, but the framing of this conversation in and of itself is apologetic to Trump.

He fundamentally can't get away from this.

The conversation is, do we give Trump a pass?

Right.

Do we allow him to hold on to power because it's better for us, even though this very obvious shit is disqualified?

Right.

Craven?

No, Craven.

Which side are you on?

Yeah.

And that, to, like, is, there is no

option within there that is like, let's deal with this as it is.

I mean, it is, it's one of the more annoying things that I think people of Alex's ilk do, of the, like, I am not this guy, but for the time being, in this situation, I'm going to be this guy.

But I want you to know that that doesn't make me that guy.

It just means that so long as we are in this situation, the situation that if I were that guy, this guy would be doing what I'm doing.

Thus, I would be that guy in this situation, but I'm not that guy.

Yeah.

And I'm only being that guy in a wargaming context.

Yeah.

Now, if it works, I'm going to keep being that guy.

I mean, I'm going to keep being that guy, but that's only because it works.

Right, right.

Now, if it doesn't work, I'm going to disown that position and claim I was just wargaming.

He's never that guy.

What are you doing?

Crazy?

Right.

Come on.

It's so manipulative and shitty.

Yep, yep, yep.

So Nick comes on and he has an entirely different position from Alex.

Alex is like, we need to have a discussion.

Do we throw Trump out with the bathwater?

And Nick's like, why are we even talking about this?

Nothing matters if Trump is doing this.

Now, that gets to my biggest criticism of Trump.

And, you know, you said this a moment ago, and I understand where you're coming from.

You say, are there other issues besides the Epstein issue?

I've heard a lot of people say this.

They say that for the MAGA base, which I I consider myself a part of, even though I didn't vote for Trump on the demographic, if the MA base is in revolt over the Epstein files, people say, are you throwing out the baby with the bathwater?

What about the secure border?

What about the progress that's being made, as you say, by RFK Jr., by Tulsi Gabbard, the good things that are happening at the administration?

Is it worth it?

In other words, people say.

If he's failing on one narrow issue like Epstein, which people say realistically doesn't actually affect people's daily lives.

They say, is that a mistake?

Now, my position is that you can't compartmentalize these issues.

Contrary to that take or that defense, I don't think you're capable.

I don't think it's possible to separate and cordon off the Epstein issue and say that's over here and immigration and foreign policy and the rest of it is over there.

Because the proposition of the first Trump campaign going back 10 years ago in 2016 or even in 2015 when Trump ran in the primary, he said that the reason that our politicians had failed us over 30 years on both sides, Republican side, Democrat side, the right and the left, he said is not for a lack of trying, not for a lack of will.

He said it's because the system has failed us.

It's because of corruption.

They can't deliver a real victory because they're not beholden to the people.

Instead, they're beholden to foreign interests, special interests, donors, political PACs.

And there was a suggestion of blackmail.

There's a suggestion of a shadow operation happening behind the scenes.

So Nick is basically explaining to Alex why, like, hey,

this is why this issue is supposed to matter to us.

There is the emotional, visceral disgust at these crimes.

Yes, that's absolutely true.

Sure.

But then there's also the whole thing that we've built up that is

if this system exists, it's being used to control and manipulate power.

And now Trump has signaled that he is fine with being a part of that or covering that up.

Right.

We were having a great time whenever we thought that it was fun to just talk about stuff like this happening.

Now this is happening, and it's our guy.

So it makes us feel real fucking dumb.

Yeah.

Real dumb.

And that's where Nick has this freedom of like, he's not my guy.

Nope.

I want somebody way worse than him.

Yep.

I have always wanted someone way worse than him.

This guy is too fucking flip-floppy to be Hitler.

Hitler didn't change his mind.

Final solution.

Jesus Christ.

Yeah.

And so I think that this is a really tough position for Alex to try and deal with

because

he's cutting to the core of like, what does the Epstein situation mean?

What is the importance of this?

And Trump's acting in a way that is violating why we care as opposed to it just being a superficial thing.

And because of that, you can't just cordon it off and be like, he's bad here, he's good here.

It's all bad.

Yeah.

No,

it's already more interesting out the gate simply because, in general, most of these debates and most all debates in general wind up with two people talking about a thing but never actually addressing the thing and then going off in different areas so they don't actually have to address the thing.

This is very clearly like, there's only one thing.

Either this is or isn't.

We've run out of everything else, else, so now let's try reality.

Yeah.

And it sucks that this

Nazi asshole is the person who's being that voice on Alex's show.

But that's the position that Alex has put himself in.

Yep.

Where he has to look like a real idiot next to a horrible person.

It is not because of Nick Fuentes' positive traits that this is happening.

It is entirely because of Alex's negative traits that this is occurring.

There is no need to worry about giving it up to the Somali pirates in this regard.

We're fine.

It's a bind that is kind of

a necessary or an inevitable thing with this kind of media space.

So Nick, one of the other things too, is that

he is not uncomfortable with taking Alex's points.

Sure.

Whereas I don't think it works the other direction.

So like Alex's only real argument for keeping Trump and looking past the Epstein Epstein stuff is like all of the other stuff that's happening, you know, like border stuff.

Sure.

And Nick is fine being like, no, that stuff's not good.

To answer maybe the big defense of Trump, and I agree with you, we have to steel man the other position.

We may not even agree with it.

We might

state it simply to entertain it.

If the pro-Trump side is saying, if their argument is, well, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The Epstein thing is a narrow, singular issue.

If that's the primary defense, I would have to say it's not good enough because if he's named in these files, then everything is compromised.

Everything is touched and poisoned by the corruption.

And when this cover-up is going on, unfortunately, we cannot assume that he is not touched by it.

We actually have to draw a negative inference.

That's sort of the whole point.

And I, like you, I actually don't believe that Trump is necessarily guilty.

I think that is a assumption.

I think that's an inference.

I don't even think it's necessarily true that Trump was on the island or that Trump was raping kids or that there's a videotape of Trump.

I don't think that's even likely.

But when he has covered it up in the way that he has, and as he's dug this hole deeper and deeper, having the DOJ cover it up, asking the FBI to look for his name, they told him his name was in there.

Now he says his name was planted in there.

He says the whole thing's a hoax.

You actually have to draw a negative inference and assume if he's covering it up, there must be something there.

If there wasn't something there, they would release the files.

And so that's why I think this entire thing has disqualified him completely.

I don't think it's one narrow issue, a singular issue among others.

And even if it were, it's not a minimal issue.

I think it touches everything.

So, I mean, there's almost just a sense of like, don't be stupid that he's

yeah.

And not in so few words, but that's kind of like a why the fuck would this be happening if we, you know, a negative inference is required at this point.

He called you stupid.

You are stupid.

You are stupid because he called you that, and now you're behaving that way.

There's no other way to describe it.

So I feel like Nick's already essentially dispensed with the best weapons that Alex has, which is like the don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

We're getting some good things.

Sure.

RFK is good.

Homan's good.

If it weren't for them, it could be somebody worse.

Yada, yada, yada, yada.

Right.

We've already been there.

And Nick has essentially disarmed all that.

We've been doing this for 20 years.

We're past it.

And now Nick goes on the offensive, even just in his opening, like Volley, and is just like, and also, Trump sucks.

And to your point about what comes next, because that's a very good question.

A lot of people wonder if Trump is failing, or that's the perception on many of these issues, like the foreign policy, like immigration, like the Epstein cover-up.

Question is, well, what comes next?

Are we at the mercy of the left now?

Are we supposed to now just be buried under Zoron Mandani's and Kamala Harris's and race communists and Sharia law and this sort of thing?

What I'm talking about with Trump is this simple adage.

When you come at the king, you can't miss.

And what does that mean?

Obviously, we all understand what that means.

It means that when you come for the king, you have to finish the job.

You cannot take half measures.

It's actually worse to take a half measure because if you come at the king and you miss, all you do is make the king mad.

And the king has an army and the king has power.

So if Trump, and when I say the king, of course I'm not even referring to Trump.

I'm referring to this left-wing political system.

Is that it?

If Trump has been coming at the king for 10 years with the 16 campaign, with January 6th, with the revenge campaign in 24, if that is a 10-year campaign going after the king and he's missing over and over, failing to purge the bureaucracy, failing to implement Project 2025, failing to fire 50,000 employees, have the mass deportations.

If it's this slow, if it's so unambitious, if he's already compromising and walking back, and people are having to come up with defenses for it, well, what are we doing?

All we're doing is pissing off the people that really run the world.

And if you miss,

They get the next reply, and they're going to come after all of us hard.

Trump, you, me, the supporters, the people in the administration.

We learned that the hard way after January 6th.

So now Nick is put Alex in a position where he needs to be like, Well, the deportations are good enough, or something.

Alex has to play that, like, well, it's good enough.

And Nick be like, No, it's not.

Yeah, Trump is ineffective.

He is not doing the things that

we all wanted him to do.

Yeah.

And that puts Alex in just a fundamentally weak position.

Yeah.

No, this is fascinating.

I find this very fascinating because, first off, what Nick Fuentes has described is a fiction that I would never have imagined.

Like, the complete rewriting of who Trump is.

Like,

that's crazy.

If you think any of those things were ever happening, that's crazy.

Like, this is crazy.

Do you believe?

Like, I'm wondering if he changed your campaign.

Yeah, I wonder if he actually believes any of what he's saying or if he's trying to say the things that he think

Alex believes, and that way we can have a communication in there.

I'm going to step into your world.

I think it's a little bit of that.

And then I think it's also a little bit of

sort of authoritarian myth-building.

Right.

You know, like Trump has waged this campaign, and even that wasn't good enough.

And so, therefore, we must have Hitler.

It's like, man,

what a fucking lunatic.

If you see the world with that point of view,

I'm flabbergasted.

That's what the word flabbergasted was invented for.

Finding a worldview like that,

wherein Donald Trump has been crusading on your behalf.

Well, I think it's probably the most effective way that someone in Nick's position can use Trump.

Yeah, I would say so, yeah.

As a crusader, sure.

Yeah, and as a failed

sort of

extreme-ish option to be nearly extreme enough.

And it's also a way, like you're saying, to bridge the gap between people who are Trump fans and get them to lean a little bit closer to what Nick is offering.

It is kind of like

a way to not humiliate the people you want to recruit.

Right.

Right.

I mean, it's just so wild because

I get what he's saying, but like you understand that

he was in the

so the two of these dudes could not come off different, more different.

Nick seems like a sharp guy who's willing to confront difficult questions.

He's ready for blood.

And Alex sounds kind of like an old drunk.

And for the purpose of this debate or conversation, we can dispense with the rhetoric and just speak in practical terms.

Where do we go from here?

Because, like you said, we're very short on answers, and it's left us with a lot of questions.

So that's where we're at.

That's a powerful 10 minutes, Nick.

And I agree with everything you said.

So I'm in full horror.

They will indict me for sure if they get back in.

I want Trump to be successful.

And then I watched him 24 days ago literally come out and say through that memo, don't investigate.

He killed himself.

It wasn't even trafficking.

There was

his

co-conspirators in jail for it.

And then they said, I got attacked by all the MAGA influencers saying you're a traitor.

And then Trump two days later, yeah, I'm behind it.

Shut it down.

So I'm in full horror mode.

Let me ask you this question.

So I'm not going to spend 10 minutes countering back here.

Everyone hear what you have to say.

How could Trump,

even he was raping kids, which you said, there's no evidence of that.

It's obviously the CIA and Masadis made a deal.

That's what I've been told by the White House.

They're like, hey, we got to make a deal with National Security.

I'm just telling you folks, that's what it is.

At least that's what they told me.

That makes sense.

Why then would they bring attention to it and behave like this?

Well, he's 79.

He has been in nine years basically as the president.

I couldn't handle his 51.

And the truth is, is that Trump doesn't give up.

He doesn't break down, but he cracks up.

Okay, so this is kind of apology for Trump.

You know, like this is kind of apology for me.

Do you mean like whenever you say, ah, he, I accused this man of doing this thing, and then I say, I'm sorry.

He is sometimes very stubborn.

I'm sorry.

He's very old.

I'm sorry.

I understand that your criticisms are accurate.

I am apologizing on his behalf, giving you an excuse or reason that does not actually address your criticism whatsoever.

Yeah, and leads you away from the obvious conclusion that Nick is clearly pointing at.

Yeah, that does seem like what an apologist would do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that there's such a vibe here.

I don't know if Alex and his old buddy Tito have reunited or if it's just in the evening and Alex is tired.

Could be.

I'm not totally sure, but the vibe that you get is Nick being like, let's cut through the rhetoric.

No bullshit.

Let's just talk about what we can do moving forward for the authoritarian fascist movement that we obviously both support.

And Alex is like, how could Trump do this to me?

He sounds like a guy who's been broken up with, who's drunk, trying to commiserate with Nick about, like, why didn't Trump love me enough?

It is literally just sitting here being like, listen, Yeller's going out back.

But I love old

Yellow.

He's so good.

He's not even feeling good.

He's not feeling good.

We have to do the right thing.

I'm taking Yeller out back.

Oh, come on.

You don't want to take him out back.

But it sucks when it's the kid convincing the dad.

I know.

I know.

Like, this is drunk dad being like, nah, it's fine.

Yeah, the story is supposed to go the other way.

Very much so.

So, Nick talks about this point that Alex has made, this cracking up.

Yes.

And

I think it's fascinating, this framework.

If Trump is failing us, if he's failing as a guy, and I agree with you, there's some sympathy with it.

You don't say it to be mean.

You don't say it even necessarily to be critical, but just descriptively, this is an old man.

He has been fighting for a long time.

He is tired.

And you can see that he can't handle it.

You can see that it is a crackup, that he cannot handle these questions.

You watch these press conferences, these interviews.

It's extraordinary the way he keeps digging, the way he gets asked about it and puts his foot in his mouth with this sort of, oh, well, we need to just stop thinking about that.

And it's a Democrat hoax.

And you say, how is it even possible that he's fumbling this hard?

So much so that people are saying maybe it's calculated because it is not possible to mess it up this bad.

See, this is this.

Why I find this really interesting is like,

why is he fumbling this so bad?

Why does he keep digging his heels in?

Yeah.

This is what Trump does with everything.

Every single thing.

What are you fucking talking about?

Since he's appeared in life,

this is him.

Yeah, there is no cracking up.

There's not like, this isn't different in any way.

The only thing that's different is he has found one issue that this media space does not want to go along with.

All the other times, every other example that they can come up with of like

times when like that Trump didn't act like this.

He was.

He acted the same way about Russia, about Stormy Daniels, about all of these other things.

It's just that the music.

You guys thought it was fun.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You wanted to play.

You don't want to play this time.

Right.

It was a lot of fun whenever he was making fun of a journalist with

physical ailments.

But it's not fun now whenever he's making us feel like we're complicit in the raping of children.

Right.

Well, that's no fun.

Yep.

Yeah.

So there's like an inability to recognize that, like, this is what this guy does.

This is in line with his past behavior.

Well, I mean,

if you acknowledge it for one second that this is his MO, then it works retroactively.

Then you have to go back and go, oh, fuck.

Oh, shit.

Oh, fuck.

Fuck.

I'm an idiot.

Yeah.

So it unravels a ton.

And it's more convenient to just be like,

you know, it's ironic because Nick is saying, you know, like, you can't compartmentalize this.

If Trump's covering this up, it touches all of these other things.

Yeah.

And meanwhile, he's trying to compartmentalize this in terms of like Trump's response being somehow different.

I mean, anytime you get to the place where somebody says something along the lines of like,

it has to be calculated because there's no way somebody could do this.

It is them actually saying this.

If they're smart, I'm smart.

If they're dumb, I'm dumb.

And I don't want to be dumb.

No.

So they have to be smart.

Yeah.

So this dumb thing can't be dumb.

Otherwise, I'm dumb.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So

Nick has a position that I think Alex doesn't like to hear, and that is that

there's no way to fix this with personnel changes.

Can we get a new running back?

Yeah, you're not going to be able to get anything because, like, it's basically exactly what we wanted, and it still sucks.

And he's totally exuberant, has this like God complex situation.

And so we're kind of strapped in for the next three years.

And, you know, I would say eight years ago, what I would have said, what is our course of action?

I would have said, we have to fight for the personnel.

We got to get a new chief of staff.

We got to get Susie Wiles out.

We got to get control of the White House, wrest control of it from the bad personnel, get the good advisors in.

You know, but we did that already.

And even now, I don't think it's possible.

I think that this is just how it's been the entire time.

And, you know, Trump, if he knows, he knows how to get in touch with you.

He knows how to get in touch with all these people that are critical.

He won't do it.

You know, and by the way, the people that are at the FBI, it's Cash Patel, it's Dan Bongino, it's Tulsi Gabbard, RFK Jr., Elon Musk was on the team.

So you would say, who would he call?

to get him out of the mess?

Who would be the dream team personnel that could steer the ship away from the rocks?

Well, they're already kind of there.

I mean,

what could we have better?

You know, if we're thinking about MAGA personnel that you could plug in that could solve the problem that represents the base, could you do much better than Cash Patel and Dan Bongino?

Could you do much better than Vivek?

And not to say that these are the best people ever, but these are pretty MAGA people.

These are pretty outside the system people to bring in.

And so you wonder if they can.

And I'm going to like, I just have to say this.

I got a bunch of calls the last three weeks.

And the calls go like this.

What do you want?

And I've never asked for anything.

What I want is good policy.

I always want to be the outsider.

And I'm just like, what do I, what do I want?

Heads.

We want heads.

I want Make America Red Again.

I want America first.

So there's a real understanding in this administration that we're it, we're in charge, this is the way it is.

And the fact that I get these calls, like

the top of the administration, and they're just

cutting dry.

What do you want?

And I'm just like, uh-huh.

If you're Nick, you're just got to be sitting there like, sure, you do, Ben.

What is happening?

Sure, sure.

Go to bed.

Oh, my God.

All right.

So, what are we doing now?

I was telling you about something, but now you're just.

Nick was making a very good point that is like, who are you going to replace with someone better or someone weirder?

Right.

It's impossible.

You've already got all of these fucking people who have been in these places.

Right.

And Alex is like, the White House does call me.

None of it is real.

The White House calls me and they say, what do you want?

And the implication of the White House calling him and saying, what do you want?

Yeah.

is kind of like they're saying hey what's it going to take to shut you up right yep thus making a quiet backroom deal uh with the media it feels good to retain positive coverage in spite of uh reality yeah Yeah.

Yeah.

I feel like that is actually worse.

That makes things look worse.

It does.

It doesn't make things look good.

No.

Yeah.

No.

So Alex is like, he's in a position where he's like, I got to run.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's an acceptable response.

I'll take that.

I got to run away.

I'll take it.

South America's calling.

Yes.

Go.

He's negotiating

with Russia and China and North Korea and Iran.

And just a week ago had a meeting with Zelensky and said, maybe we'll give you heavy bombs to bomb Moscow.

And now they may overthrow Zelensky.

So you get this idea that it's like this swirling crazy town.

And you have last week, the CI director

at that

meeting they had, that cabinet meeting, and Ratcliffe literally leans back and goes,

starts kind of like demoning out in the meeting.

And I'm just like, I'm like literally looking at places to run to in in the southern hemisphere for nuclear war.

And I'm not the type of guy that runs.

My instincts are run, run, run.

And the Democrats want to defeat Trump, and the Democrats want to rape our kids, and I know they're bad.

And then you got all this crazy Trump delusion, and

I smell death.

And

so you're up in Chicago.

I'm in Austin, big cities.

This is real world stuff.

So

at this point, I just want listeners of of yours to know.

Let me ask you this, Dick.

Comment to just the Armageddon flavor of this, but then

larger issue,

is there any way to extricate Trump?

Is there any path, in your view, out of this?

Do you use a Mel Death?

Do you use a Meldath?

Can we save Trump?

He keeps asking him over and over again, can we keep Trump?

Is there a way out of this?

I cannot be more clear.

If all three of us are standing on a clifftop, it is your and my responsibility to push him off that cliff.

That's what Nick is saying.

And Alex is like, I kind of want to hold on to him.

Hold on to it.

No, no.

Remember all the things you don't.

Remember all the things you're saying.

I can be quiet.

I can be dead silent.

Remember all the things you're saying.

That's why we're pushing him off.

He is precious to me, though.

I understand all those things, but that.

Actually, including that.

That also includes why we should push him off.

He's too precious to you.

Alex asks Nick that probably 20 times in the interview because it's clearly the conversation that Alex wants to have.

Like, is there a path?

Yeah.

And every time, Nick is like, no.

I mean, it is metaphorically essentially like, well, can't I keep doing what I'm doing?

No.

No.

No.

You can't.

You change or die.

That's it.

Yeah, we have identified a fundamental problem.

Yep.

Can I act like.

We haven't?

No.

Nope.

So yeah, Alex desperately wants to keep Trump and keep things as they are because there's a lot of proximity to power built into that.

But Nick's coming in and he's just like, it's time to think about the future.

What's next?

What do we want after Trump?

Because when he leaves office and most likely pardons himself, you and I will still be here picking up the pieces.

And even to the extent that we criticize Trump or have criticized Trump, it will make no difference when the left persecutes us.

So even though I didn't vote for him, even though you've been fair and objective and critical, it will make no difference when the Democrats come in and clap back on all of us, on the entire right wing.

And we will not get a presidential pardon.

So we'll be sweeping up after him one way or the other.

We have to start to think, what is our lives?

What is our political movement?

What is MAGA, the populist America first movement?

What will it be when Trump sunsets?

And I think he's already, in a meaningful way, sunsetted.

There's just nothing new there.

It's not dynamic.

It's not progressive.

It's not forward-thinking.

It's just sort of static and waiting to be resolved, waiting for him to exit stage left.

We have to start to think in 2028, what is the next phase?

What is the next booster rocket after Trump decouples?

What will that be?

So let's speak to that.

What is the next phase?

Because Trump did not defend free speech.

When I got taken off and you got taken off and everything, Elon, because I only give credit worth Sue, he is the champion of of that.

They ran him off.

Susie Wallace didn't like him.

But

we're all living under that umbrella.

Trump wouldn't have gotten in without Elon, in my view.

What is your view on that?

And so, what is the Elon wild card there?

Well, what is interesting about Elon is introducing this America party.

I'm actually interested to see where that goes.

So, Alex, it's kind of like, can we just transfer this to Elon?

Can we just do that?

Maybe we can just pretend that Elon's Trump.

Man.

And Nick's take on it is not as cut and dry as the end of that clip might make it seem.

He thinks that Elon has some good potential as a guy who likes white people

quite a bit.

Right.

But also he's essentially an oligarch.

Right.

Like,

is he going to be any different?

Probably not.

I mean, yeah,

your option is like, can we love bomb an oligarch into doing more whiteness stuff?

Yeah.

But eventually we'll run run out of the same things to talk about, and he'll be like, I was on Epstein Island too, and we're right back where we started.

It's not a long-term solution, but it might be a band-aid.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It might be a little bit of a way to pivot over into

the actual

next leader.

We'll see.

So I think that Alex, you can tell, is like, this sucks.

Yes.

I fucking hate it.

He's been drinking again.

I don't know.

He might just be really tired.

He could be.

Reserving judgment.

This feels very similar to the way that we have heard him speak in our previous episodes wherein he had indulged.

Yes, that is true.

There is a flavor.

There's a similarity, yeah.

But I'm not convinced just yet.

I want to see some hatchets.

I get you.

Hey, I'm on your team.

But he's bummed out and, like, this is the worst.

Nick, on the other hand, is trying to explain to him, buddy, this is good.

This is the best day of our lives.

We can get people so much further to the right if we just play our cards right.

With Trump disintegrating, it's actually presenting a real opportunity, especially in the way that he's disintegrating.

So, wait, are you an accelerationist or what are you saying?

I don't know that I'm an accelerationist.

I'm not rooting for the country to break apart, but I do believe that Trump occupying this seat is holding back something more right-wing.

I think that Trump is, I'm maybe a political accelerationist.

And what I mean by that is I don't want the worst case scenario to happen for America to collapse so that then I'm not an

accelerationist in that way.

But in terms of the GOP.

You want to wake people up, though.

You want to have the wake-up call.

Yeah, I think the controlled opposition needs to be defeated.

We need to accelerate the political controlled opposition.

So let's look at it this way.

Why do they want you off the air?

Let's just say it.

The NEL runs it.

That's the C.

What are they scared about?

We're not trying to bring ourselves into this, folks.

We're not Hunter S.

Thompson, but it's true.

Jesus Christ.

Why do they want you off the air?

Why do they want me off the air?

What are we doing that the power structure fears?

Well, what they don't like about you is that you are an independent media outlet.

You have too big of a studio, too big of an operation, too big of an audience.

They want to control that.

I think with me, I never had an operation as big as yours.

We got into it at different times and different circumstances and things like that.

I think what they fear about me, and I've seen it even on TikTok the other day, there was like this liberal kid and he goes, the left is not talking about the rise of Nick Fuentes and that's a problem.

The left is starting to like Nick Fuentes because he criticizes Trump.

I, you know, and I hate saying my own name, I think it sounds like narcissistic, but what they fear about me is that what I am proposing

is a novel and truly reactionary alternative to what we get even from the GOP.

You know, in 16, they used to say, and maybe you remember this, but in 15 and 16, they would say they hated Ted Cruz more than Trump because they said Ted Cruz was a true believer.

He's a true radical, a true.

Now, I don't think that's true, but there is this premise that they never feared Trump as much because they recognized that Trump was a deal maker, would make concessions.

They recognized that Trump was not an ideologue.

He really was a demagogue the whole time by definition.

Whereas me, My movement, being very young, being very fanatical, and being very radical, we do represent a threat in the sense that when all of these fake ideologies disintegrate, what is going to be the strongest ship?

What is going to be the Noah's Ark?

Well, that's

why the NSA and Documents and Leaks, they fear anybody.

They don't control if you get a group together.

So they feel leaders,

period.

So let me ask you this.

What is your prediction?

I know it's all dead reckoning.

For Trump,

what is the best scenario?

What would you do to try to

because he's here for three and a half years?

What is the best path out of this?

How do we save Trump?

I gotta ask you again.

I gotta ask you again.

It's dad reckoning, but

how does Trump do this?

He's here for another three and a half years.

He doesn't have to be.

Man.

You dick.

I have got an exciting new solution that nobody's ever thought of before.

It's called, and you're going to listen, I think you might react to this, but it's brand new.

It's never been tried before.

It's called apartheid.

Yeah, it's the thing from the past.

This novel idea.

This brand new idea of us being a homogenous social class above all others that we dominate and are extracting wealth from.

You know, brand new.

Brand fucking new.

And I think that the danger here is that Nick's criticism of Trump is kind of correct.

Right.

You know, the criticism that he's a piece of shit and he is not an ideological, pure,

hard, right-wing person

is true.

It's just that he's putting himself in as a proxy as the alternative.

Right, right, right.

And in doing so, he's

not really being clear that he's like, oh, also, when you get over to my side,

I hate the Jews.

I hate Jewish people fundamentally.

Right.

And that is something that we are going to act on.

We're really going to be

this new novel reactionary kind of thing that we're going to do.

Brand new.

It involves getting rid of all those Jewish ones.

Well, I mean, brand newly, though.

In a brand newly way.

Yeah.

He's presenting the pure alternative to the Trump disappointment

as himself.

But that's like, that's the Alex trick, right?

Everybody, if you make the argument, this thing is not the thing it says it is, then yes, you are making accurate points.

Whether or not I like the thing it says it is,

it is not that thing.

So we're in agreement, right?

We're not arguing about what the thing is, though.

Because once we argue about what the thing is, then we're not talking about whether or not Trump is what he says he is.

We're talking about whether or not it's okay to eradicate the Jews.

Right.

And that's a different conversation.

That's what Nick is trying to get people over to his side.

He's not what he says he is.

He's right.

I agree with him.

You're a good dude.

Let's kill the Jews.

Ah, goddammit again.

Whoops.

Yeah.

And fundamentally, like what Nick is talking about, like about this being a big opportunity.

is that it's we can funnel a ton of people much further to the right into these these spaces if we just exploit this implosion correctly.

And Alex, I think that he's a little bit outplayed if I want to be as generous as possible.

If he doesn't want that to be what happens,

then he's being outplayed severely.

And I guess there is the possibility that just like he's

kind of crashing his own ship in order to move things over to Nick.

Yeah.

That That is possible.

It feels very much like, I don't know if that's on purpose, but it feels like this is Alex's proxy way of talking about himself,

of being like, is there any way to save me?

Yeah.

Is there any way to save what I do?

Because

I can't do the thing that I have been doing.

Your thing is clearly working better at this point in time.

That's why we're still talking.

That's why we're talking.

You're crushing it.

I want some of that crushing it.

Can I get it without changing anything about me?

Right.

And it's a shocking inverse of the relationship that he and Nick had earlier on, where Alex was trying to convince him to speak in code and stop hanging out with Ye.

And just cut it out with the Hitler stuff and we can make some money together, buddy.

Yeah.

Now the roles have essentially reversed.

Never, oh, man.

Time, time passing never makes you feel good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You look back and it's like, that's not how it was supposed to go.

So Alex is bummed out.

Yeah.

I mean, this is the disaster.

So, so, Nick, there's a lot of questions there.

Why do you think he covered it up?

What do you think is going to come out?

How the Democrats think they can only limitedly expose him when they're heavily involved.

Where do you see that going?

I agree.

I think they're going to keep pushing it, you know, because this is the first scandal that's really hurt Trump.

All the other stuff nobody really believed, the Russia gate, the Stormy Daniels.

For the most part, that never left a mark because there was this assumption among the base that, look, the left is going to lie about Trump.

They're going to try everything.

They're throwing everything other than the kitchen sink and the rest of it.

But this is something that it's just unavoidable.

I mean, the Trump base, these people like Cash Patel, they played up the Epstein files for years.

It's so brazen.

So this is going to leave a mark.

And now that the left has found something that is so effective, super effective, they're just going to hit this all day long.

Now, fortunately for Trump, there's this summer recess for the Congress so they can punt this.

I don't know that that was even the best idea because when the Congress reconvenes, guess what they're going to do?

They're once again going to force the issue.

So we're going to pick up in September and the next legislative session on this.

Yeah.

So

I think that Nick is fundamentally missing a point, but I think it's somewhat intentional.

Yeah.

And that is that the left has not discovered something that works.

Nope.

You guys just don't, you're not playing this time.

Yep.

All of those, like, like I mentioned earlier, all those other scandals that Trump

navigated fine is because he has a robust, well-funded media machine in place that distracts everybody and is like, oh, no, fake news.

This is a Democratic hoax.

Yep.

If they had just had message discipline and done that from the beginning on this,

this probably wouldn't be hurting Trump at all.

The only, it's not the left, it's you.

Yeah.

Every single fucking time all of you have been in a losing position, your move has been, ah, that guy's a pedophile.

That's your move.

That's been like the in my back pocket.

I've got the call that guy a pedophile.

That move is taken away from you if your guy is a pedophile.

And it doesn't matter if he is or isn't, because it didn't matter if what you were calling was a pedophile was or wasn't.

What matters is, would it sound like it was in a conversation where I'm arguing with somebody?

And now it

you're gonna lose.

Yeah,

it's just uh, we have they they've reached the Mendoza line of what the right-wing media will

do.

And

this is fully within their power.

Yep.

Yep.

This is all.

I mean, in a way, you could also say, like, here's how we keep him from getting blackmailed.

We say it's okay for him to do whatever he wants to do.

It's one easy trick that could solve everything.

Yep.

So, again, Nick is trying to explain to Alex that the glass is half full here, man.

Opportunity.

I am loving this.

You know, some people look at this as dreadful.

I look at this as kind of like momentum.

This is an explosion of energy that can propel maybe something even more anti-establishment into the fore.

You know, and people like liberals were pointing out, Trump is losing with the younger demographic.

Trump's approval among the 18 to 25 is crashing out more than any other demo.

The old people don't care, but the young people are furious about this.

And the left said, oh, this is a treble, and this is the main issue.

And he thought he had the political cachet to say, shut up.

And

a person with a 70 IQ would have known that was a disastrous move, which was the mental acuity of him and his advisors.

But in particular, with the young people, and I agree because he thought he could do it, but he didn't.

The young people are leaving, and the left is telling us, oh, great, Trump is losing the the youth.

This is a great day for the left.

But Trump is losing the youth not because the youth are going to the left.

He's losing the youth because they're more right-wing than Trump.

Trump has created a generation of Nick Fuenteses and Groiper.

I saw you talk about this, and I like Charlie Kirk.

I'm on his enemy, and I think he's been brought along, but they're literally having struggle sessions now.

When you've been banned from their events, I've been there when you get taken up by police.

The fact that they tried to ban you from the building only made you bigger.

Do a little short thing on that.

Sure.

Well, you know, last week they did this Turning Point struggle session on Israel.

And what I said on my show is that for many years, back in 2019, I came at Turning Point USA as a critic from the right.

Turning Point was considered the rightmost youth organization in the country.

And they were the gladiators against the left.

They were the most pro-Trump, the most right-wing.

Then here comes the groipers that are saying you're you're not right-wing enough on the social issues, on immigration, on identity, and in particular on Israel.

And their first response back in 19 was to ban us.

They banned me from their events.

They kicked the groipers out.

They fired the groipers that were sympathetic in their organization.

And they tried to ignore us.

They tried to purge us.

They tried to pretend we didn't exist.

Fast forward six years later, and their whole organization is filled with groipers.

Their events are filled with groupers.

The youth is about as right-wing as me.

Maybe they're even more right-wing than me, even.

And again,

they had literally an event with their people about this now.

Yeah, he's a tired.

He's a tired man.

You know, it's a classic quote, right?

You know, if you're not a raging conservative monster in your 20s, you have no heart.

But if you're not a

pointless, non-functional liberal in your 40s, you have no brain.

Yeah.

What if you're a washed washed-up, sad, bankrupt guy whose business is about to be liquidated?

Go to South America.

Run.

Run.

Oh, man.

I think that there's an indication in that clip of a talking point Nick wanted Alex to bring up.

I think he wanted to bring up the struggle session thing.

Yep.

It's pretty specific wording that Alex introduces.

Nick clearly has prepared thoughts on this.

It kind of feels like, oh, this was part of the thing that we're going to talk about this.

I think that it's an indication of Nick calling some of the shots.

Yeah.

Yeah,

I've practiced this in the mirror energy on some of the

set me up.

Team Me Up, Alex.

Yep.

So there's also like

just a bummer of a reality that is like,

we've taken your stuff.

Yeah.

We've taken these kind of center-right things,

pretty far center-right.

Yeah.

Like a turning point, like an Infowars.

And we have infected all of it.

We have now pushed everything.

We've exploited your obsession with free speech.

We've exploited fears around lockdown and pandemic and all this stuff in order to move everything super far to the right.

We have forced you to bequeath power to us.

And now your God king, Trump, is

shown to have no clothes.

And

we're just going to take over now.

It is so much like, hey,

y'all have been feeding these people some form of Diet Coke their entire lives.

And if that's all you've had, then one sip of real Coke is going to blow your fucking mind.

And that's what we're, yeah, that's his pitch.

And so Nick is invested in

not caring about Trump.

Instead, he wants to find basically the next Hitler.

Yeah.

I don't think that Trump was all bad.

I'm not a Trump hater.

I think that he did a lot of good for the country, but he was never, in my opinion, he was always a first step.

He was always going to hand the baton to somebody else.

He was planting a seed.

He was destroying institutions.

He was kind of like a necessary first part of a long story.

And so if we play our cards right and are smart, what happens next is we decouple from Trump.

And like he did we imagine what is the next step of this what do we want and we take the baton from trump and from this administration and we take it forward in 2028 we take it forward in 2032 and we look for a young avatar of this new movement that can run for office maybe

as a congressman is there anybody out there

uh i i don't know anybody in particular people say thomas massey i don't think he'll be the guy uh dan bilzerian has talked about running for office.

Maybe it'll be somebody like him.

Maybe it's somebody we haven't heard of yet.

It could be somebody.

This is a big country.

It could be somebody that nobody even knows their name.

I think all he knows is the fuck word.

I mean,

he is a little, yeah, he's a little jocular, but you know,

I'm not against him.

It's like, you know, dude, you got a vocabulary?

You know, it's like, I don't know.

But yeah, I know what you mean.

Hopefully, if he runs for office, maybe clean it up a little bit.

Certainly clean up the language.

I might run for office at some point.

I think at this point in time, I see myself more as like a vanguard, and I think I'm maybe more powerful not in a campaign because you get in a campaign and then they turn it into well-I got it.

You're more like John the Baptist out there.

So you know, John the Baptist.

Yeah, I get it.

I get it.

Hey, Alex, I'm you.

Yeah.

I'm you, but harder.

Yep.

Yep.

I feel like Alex was really trying to be like, could you announce a run?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Some sort of set him up like, oh,

now we can get you out of my media space and put you into a place where you have rules on what you can and can't say.

Hey, Nick,

who's a new exciting young candidate that you're interested in?

Let's pretend that you didn't

weren't Ye's campaign manager like a year ago.

Yeah.

We know who you want to promote.

Come on, stop fucking playing games.

Come on.

So Alex is like, I need to take a break.

I think he had to pee or something.

Yeah, that makes sense.

But they go to break and they come back, and Alex is like, this is not a debate.

This is a wake.

All right, well, I appreciate Nick Fuentez, really smart guy being with us tonight.

Nate Jay Fuentez on Rumble and on X.

We're going to end this in about 30 minutes.

We're going to take a few calls right now.

Call it a debate.

I mean, it is a discussion.

I would say more of a wake.

And I don't want to agree with him totally that Trump's done.

I think there's some chance to extricate.

He's woke.

As I said, three plus weeks ago, before he even came out, this is Trump.

And

going against what he promised to do, the Epstein thing, has created a wedge the Democrats are coming after.

But that'll look at all the other issues.

And now he's so much better than them on others.

And I want to keep the House.

I want to keep the Senate.

I want to hold on to this.

Please, Nick, tell me I can.

Please, I just want to keep my Trump toy.

We're just never going to get to a spot where it's like, guys,

the Democrats aren't actually your enemy.

They've been non-stop trying to just be like, can we live together?

I just want to live in the same space as you.

You guys are your own enemies.

Your imaginary enemies are your own.

Your real enemies are absolutely your own.

And you're going to eat each other alive with this Trump bullshit.

Yeah, and that's essentially what this conversation is actually about.

Yeah.

It is about:

can we not destroy this fun costume we've been wearing?

Yep.

The hats are fun.

And Nick's like, you got to put away the hat.

You got to put away the hat.

It's time to grow up.

It's weird to hear this from a 19-year-old, Alex.

It's time to grow up.

Yep.

Yeah.

So, Nick, I think he has a point that is obvious, but also entirely invalidating of their entire point.

And that is that, hey, man, if Trump would just do more crazy shit, we'd be fine with all this.

What?

You know, it's like you said, and we're kind of in agreement on this.

Even if all of this has happened, if he went after his opponents like Clinton and Obama and Comey and Clapper, and if he raised some of these departments and agencies to the ground and he did the mass deportations, he would be forgiven.

You know, he's a lame duck, and that could cut both ways.

You could say nothing new can come out of it.

He can't win again.

At the same time, you would say he could kind of burn the house down on his way out, meaning not necessarily destructive, but he could really go for it, and he could really go for the institutions and really go for these bad people.

And this is a crisis.

This is like a hot potato.

He has it.

Pass it to the next person.

You know, double it and pass it to Hillary Clinton.

Why is he caught holding the bag and dying with the Epstein thing?

So

essentially, Nick, his position this whole time has been when Alex is like, can we salvage Trump?

Yeah.

He's like, no.

But his actual position is,

yeah, if Trump would kick all of the immigrants out of the country, if he'd lock up all the semi-powerful people on the left,

if he would destroy all of these parts of the government, if he would do that dictator shit like for real, yeah, I wouldn't care if he's an Epstein file.

He can do whatever the fuck he wants.

I already want him to be a dictator.

Why would I give a shit if he's raped children?

Yeah.

My problem is that he's not doing this other shit that I want him to do.

So in effect, Nick is giving Alex the answer.

How do we save Trump?

Trump could be saved if he would just

be Hitler.

If he was...

Here's the thing.

In reality, there is no way to save Trump.

In fiction, if Trump were a different person, the person that we lied to people and said he was, then yes, I would accept anything he does.

That's what we're talking about.

He is not that person.

He's proved it beyond a reasonable doubt.

That's all we can say.

But it makes the

caring about this

seem a little bit stupid.

Yeah.

Because you obviously don't care about Epstein.

You don't care about

what any of this portends.

You would forgive him if he was an opportunity you want.

And that's like, I think that most of the people who are attracted to Nick Fuentes, most of the people who are his fans,

they understand that.

They aren't disillusioned by some, like,

oh no, this is calculated.

Right.

No, it's ruthless practicalism.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that that is a place where he can say shit like this and it doesn't really matter.

Yeah.

On its face, it's invalidating of pretending to care.

Yeah.

But his audience doesn't demand that he pretend to care.

Yeah, they don't, again, they don't really care.

No.

And even then, even what he's describing is like, here's what he could do: give heads.

People are calling for heads they want heads his head seems pretty obvious to take right now so if he gives people other heads they'll maybe go away yeah on some level that is basically the subtext

so they take some calls and uh they get a call uh from a nick fan okay just forgive me a little bit i'm a little nervous because uh you guys are both my inspirations especially nick yeah i just recently became a voiper i don't mean to uh take all the time but um listen stop apologizing you're on the air just what's your point?

Okay, so my question to you, Alex, was: if Nick were by chance to start a GoIPA war against the Trump movement, like, would you be in, like, would you be a part of the movement?

Because I'm getting tired of these Judeo-Catholics, Judeo-Christians in the office dictating our government.

And I just.

All right, let me respond to that.

Three weeks ago, I came out day one and said this is BS

within hours of it breaking.

And I've tried to figure it out since.

So I am at war with the Republican establishment trying to

control Trump.

So it's not, do I, I would, if Nick launched some war against Trump that he kind of already has, I would then gauge it and say, do I agree with it?

He kind of already did it.

So I think you're kind of like behind the curve here.

I think we're already here, and we're saying we want to get Trump steered back.

Can he be salvaged?

We're having a discussion about this.

That's not the discussion that's happening.

And what this caller is asking is, essentially, a take MAGA and kick the Jews out.

Yep.

That's the Groiper War.

That's what we're here for.

Are you in favor of that, Alex?

Alex can't not understand that these are the conversations that are being had.

This is what this caller is asking him.

Yeah.

And

listen, we're all people, but I don't believe that.

Should we purge non-people from our group?

Cut to six months later.

You know, we purged a lot of these non-people from our group, but I'm starting to think there's some more non-people in here.

Let's get rid of these guys too.

And there we go.

Yeah.

Yep.

So I think that Alex is either delusional about what the conversation he's having on the show is, or he wants it to be this.

And either is unacceptable.

I think that's an interesting, like, if he does mean kind of what he's saying, then he would have some intentionality between behind this of being like, I am not openly saying I'm on the groiper side of the war, but do you see me having this conversation and saying, you're totally right, Nick.

I think you're right.

I think you're right, Nick.

Nick, I think you're right.

Like you would understand what's happening now.

Yeah.

Yeah,

there's a feeling of hedging a little bit.

It's disgusting.

So, Nick,

I mean, look.

For whatever, I think I've been thinking about continuity so much.

And Alex is completely disconnected from continuity.

Nothing matters.

Tomorrow doesn't exist.

Yesterday is an imagination.

Right.

But Nick kind of has to live in reality.

Sure.

And so Trump said, I don't want your support.

Right.

And that doesn't go away just because you want it to go away.

And so Nick's like, I'm going to remember that.

My first inclination is we have to punish them, you know, and I know people didn't like my tactics last year, but my first instinct when I heard this is when Trump said, I don't want your support, my first thought is that needs to be on billboards.

That needs to be projected at rallies.

Come to the midterms.

People need to say and remember that I don't want your support.

Oh, you're right.

Our only hope is killing his hubris.

Like, if there's any salvaging him, which is actually working some, he,

you know, we try to say, oh, take the vaccine.

People backlash.

He backed off.

Exactly.

Exactly.

is trump gut level is trump salvageable

no gut level no that's like i would say probably the 20th time yeah he's asked that it is just uh repetitive please i mean that's this is such alex being that kid whose daddy does everything for him like even listening to it now is like

i know But I'm going to ask you again because maybe this time the answer is going to be different.

And do you know why I do that?

Because eventually it will will be different.

Eventually, I'll wear you down and I will get to ride on that little fucking horse because you'll give me that quarter.

Yeah.

That's going to happen.

I think that that's one very good possibility that he's just like, I think if I just keep asking, it'll change.

Or

he really, really wants this to look like a conversation where there are possible

viewpoints.

Is it a both sides conversation?

And it's not.

He just keeps saying the same thing over and over again, and Nick keeps saying no.

Is there any way the climate isn't changing?

No.

Okay.

Now, I like that, but is there any way that the climate could be not changing?

No.

And that we brand this conversation as a debate on climate change.

Exactly.

Yeah,

it's either really, really stupid or an expression of him just like, I'll get my way eventually.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But, like,

I think there's something so interesting about Nick being like, we got to put this on billboards.

Yeah.

And Alex is like, yeah, that'll get Trump in line.

And Nick's point is not, let's get Trump in line.

We will not get him in line.

We will get another leader.

We are punishing him for failure.

That's called holding somebody accountable.

We will use that against him to boost someone else.

Right, right.

We are not helping Trump do anything anymore.

Yep.

So Alex is like, but what about the Dems?

What about the Dems?

Do they even exist right now?

Not to Nick.

How do the Democrats try to connect him to Epstein when they're completely convicted of it?

It is a he without sin, throw the first home.

I don't know that that applies.

I mean, if they're all guilty of this, then they all got to go.

You know what I mean?

Like,

you know, we could say the Democrats are hypocrites, but then we could say Trump is a hypocrite.

I agree, but how do they use Epstein on him when they're confirmed involved?

Yeah, again, I think it depends on what's in the files, which we don't know.

But at the same time, Trump runs the DOJ, so the onus onus is on him.

You know, I mean, I'm really just not interested in that.

When people say Democrats and Republicans, I say you're repeating yourself.

You're talking about the same people.

So Republicrips and Demobloods.

Yeah, there we go.

Republicans.

Republicans.

Yeah, Jesse Ventura's back, baby.

Yeah, this is an unfortunate instance where, like, uh-oh, Alex, you can't really argue with this.

This is what you say.

This is what you say.

According to what you say, this is what you say.

Yeah, this is what your career is based on.

And

the person throwing your shit back at you is saying, who cares?

Yeah.

This is almost like a murder interrogation.

There's just so much like,

you know, we know.

You know we know, right?

Yeah, but what if I, you know, I don't think I was there that night.

You were.

We know.

We know, you know.

You know, I don't think I was.

You should ask for a lawyer.

That's what you should be doing.

Barnes.

Exactly.

Barnes should be over here for a lawyer right now.

So one of the biggest allures, obviously, of Trump as a political figure is this idea that he is anti-elite.

He's anti-oligarch.

Yeah.

Gold toilet having people tend to be anti-oligarch.

Yeah.

And so Nick points out the very obvious thing that Trump is a fucking oligarch.

Oh, what?

On the trade, on cutting deep state funding.

I mean, there is a lot of good happening, Nick.

That's what's so painful about this.

Yeah, I don't know.

Like I said, I don't think you can treat it as a singular issue.

And we talk about oligarchs.

I mean, Trump, by definition, is an oligarch.

He is a billionaire.

I mean, look at his cabinet.

Linda McMahon, Howard Luttnick, Scott Besson.

Scott Besson comes from Soros.

He worked for Soros.

I mean, if they're not oligarchs, then who is?

Peter Thiel, J.D.

Vance.

I mean, look at the people that supported Trump getting into office.

It was Silicon Valley, Wall Street, the Israel lobby, and then Trump hired all of them.

I mean, all the people in the DOD and the Pentagon are Musk people.

If Elon Musk and Peter Thiel are not oligarchs, who is?

So this is what I'm talking about.

Trump split.

I mean, that looks pretty real.

Oh, I think it's real, but, you know, that's just one other oligarch.

I think that that's got nothing to do with what's going on.

At least Elon Musk was calling out the Epstein stuff on June 5th.

He wasn't aware of that.

That's all you say.

He's owed an apology.

Absolutely.

And I said it, and you said it it too, the day it happened.

I said, Elon is right.

He has no reason to lie.

And everybody said, oh, that's fake.

Trump deflected from it.

So, yeah, absolutely.

But, you know, this whole thing about, oh, Epstein's one little issue.

It's about the Republic or whatever.

First of all, we don't have Republic.

That is a fiction.

Second of all, Trump is the oligarch candidate.

If there ever was one.

He is the congenital oligarch, if there ever was one.

So, but MAGA people need to wake up.

This is what I'm talking about.

These are like the mind-raped.

These are the raped, brainwashed people that bought into the scam and they think that Trump is carrying the banner forward.

It's like, look around you.

I mean,

challenge your data.

I mean, they see the good appointments and things better than Democrats.

I don't do lesser of two evils, but overall,

old Trump supporters just might

sort of the Q-tards.

Well, now they're waking up too.

It's just, it's hard to look at the Democrats and then just totally turn against Trump, but I get what you're saying.

It's a bad sign.

Let's take a few more calls.

That's a

weak response on Alex's part.

Yeah.

Because what Nick is doing is directly confronting what Alex does.

He is the person who's like blindly turned

Trump into this

meme or whatever.

That's the bread and butter of Infowars.

And

he's just saying, no,

your shit is hollow.

Yeah.

It's empty, and I'm going to poke a hole in it.

People like lies, but now is not the era for lies.

I guess that's what we're saying.

Yeah.

And I think that Alex wants

his last sort of retreat is this idea of like, let's fucking latch on to Elon Musk.

Yeah.

And Nick is even kind of like resistant to that, or at least not signing off.

He's an oligarch, too.

He's one one of no, no, Nick is Nick is very much like, oh, man, this revolution's going really well.

Oh, no, why am I getting beheaded?

God damn it, Robespear.

It's just him, man.

It's just the way these people operate.

It's never going to be enough.

There's never going to be enough heads.

Yep.

So they go to some more calls.

And I think that one of the arguments that I've made, and I have been saying pretty much since Alex started fucking around with Nick,

is that the way that this media space works is

you are just somebody who stumbles across some kind of conspiracy content like Alex's.

And you're like, oh my God, this is interesting.

This guy is very convicted.

He sounds very sure of himself.

He pretends that he's read all these things.

And you get interested in that.

And eventually, it becomes unsatisfying because something like this Trump thing happens.

And and you're like, oh, wait, Alex is full of shit.

I need something harder.

And so you go to Nick.

And then before you know it, you're blaming Jews for all the ills of the world.

That'll happen.

And so this caller essentially followed that exact same path.

Right.

Hey, so I just want to say, like, really just shout out to both of you guys.

I'm a huge fan.

Really liked the way that this conversation went because I was almost a little concerned on Twitter when I thought it was going to be a debate because I love you guys both.

Started off listening to Alex Jones, moved on to listening to Nick Fuentes.

Really, it's not much of a question, it's more of a comment.

I just personally don't really understand why so much of the Trump base is giving him even like a shadow of a doubt.

I mean, he's literally broken almost every fucking promise, at least since 2024, let alone 2016, right?

And I feel like there's a level of almost like, like, they think that, like, eventually he'll honor his promise and he'll live up to what he promised.

And

every time, how many fell for it again awards are they going to win before they realize that he's controlled opposition, in my opinion?

Well,

this is where I could actually debate, Nick, and I appreciate your call.

They dismantled border enforcement.

They've scaled up.

And yeah, it's less than Obama did and less than he did before because they didn't have the enforcement.

They, from what I've seen in my sources, they're really trying to scale that up.

So 96% shutdown on the border coming in, scaling up deportation.

Is that really a fair attack on Trump?

I mean, he is saying, oh, we're going to keep people here with, you know, for farming visas and things.

So he has gone back there.

But I mean, in general, is Trump really breaking his promise on the border, Nick?

100%.

Yeah.

And the reason why, I mean, look, I agree with you.

It's miraculous what he did at the border.

Border crossings are like zero, which is unheard of.

And that would have been good in 2017, but it's 2025.

A lot of people don't have the perspective that you and I have.

Illegal immigration was so bad then, 10 years ago, that we elected Trump.

Then we had four years of Biden where 10 million people come in.

Now they closed the border.

That's too little, too late.

He promised mass deportations.

Closed border, that should have been a given.

That should have been a given from the beginning.

Now they've given us closed border.

They promised mass deportations.

We're six months in.

They haven't even started.

And they go, well, you know, that's going to happen later.

I mean, when is that going to happen?

And by the way, here's why people are concerned.

Maybe you'd be willing to say, oh, well, they'll do it next year.

They'll do it in a couple of years.

Will they?

In the middle of the midterms, Joe Rogan says, Well, we only want the criminals out.

The all-in podcast, the tech bros, they're going to say, We only want the criminals gone.

Look, suffice to say, it ain't happening.

Alex and Trump essentially, and you know, so many of these other figures in that media space have created a disillusionment machine.

Yeah, and eventually, a lot of people will end up in the same kind of position as this caller who gravitate towards trying to find something harder.

And they find Nick.

And he's calling in.

And Alex is like, fuck, maybe I can still appeal to this guy.

Trump's doing pretty good on the border.

He's doing pretty, you know, he's trying to do his talking points of why you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

And he's hoping Nick will just be like, yeah, you know what?

That is one good thing about Trump.

But instead, he's like, no,

no.

100% Trump has not lived up to this campaign promise.

And that's why he appeals to these people who have been disillusioned by Alex's shit.

I mean, to go back to the beginning, he's right.

You know, when you come at the king, you have to go all the way.

You can't be like, I think it's bad that the king did this, but I'll forgive him.

You got to go after it.

You got to go all the way.

So, no.

It doesn't even matter.

Yes.

No.

I don't even care.

I threw the glove down, so now we fight.

There is no like, but I'm pretty, right?

No, I don't care.

We're fighting now.

Yeah.

How does it serve my interests in any way to be like, yes, this is good enough?

Yeah.

No, absolutely not.

No, we're fighting.

Yeah.

So we get another caller, and this guy was on hold for an hour just to

sort of baba booey them.

Great.

Except with a kind of anti-Semitic thing.

Great.

Go ahead,

Sean.

Go ahead.

Hey, good evening, fellas.

Hope you guys are well.

Just want to say Christ is King.

Mary is the mother of God.

We pray for the conversion of the Jews, all heretics and infidels.

Okay,

that was it.

Well, that was a good call.

He yelled for like an hour to say that, Nick.

Wow.

Based.

Yeah, very based.

We're glad we got that out of the way.

We should have started with that at the beginning.

All right.

Nick in Arizona, you're a tellgunner.

Go ahead.

That last guy is going to be hard to follow.

Yeah.

Yeah, so, I mean, Alex is just letting his show become

sort of carnival of.

We're just saying the Nazi catechism or whatever it is now.

That's just what we're doing?

Yep.

Cool.

Cool.

Yeah,

he's either very interested in this becoming what his show is acceptable on his show, or he has entirely lost control of what's going on.

There's almost no other explanation.

Yeah, I mean, I can definitely just see him like.

Where do you go?

Run.

Run.

Go to South America.

You have gold buried somewhere.

Take it.

Get out.

Just go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's nothing for you here.

There's only watching Nick Fuentes pick your bones with his fucking teeth.

And if you run, there's a hammock somewhere.

Yeah.

And sandals.

Oh my God.

There's a hammock sandals.

I want to run right now.

Sure.

And Nick Fuentes isn't even nipping at your heels.

Nope.

Not even bothering me.

So I think that this has been, Alex has described it as awake.

I would describe it as humiliating.

And Alex is just really bummed out about all of this stuff that's going on.

And he's talking to a

borderline giddy Nick Fuentes who's like, we can use this.

This is going to be so good.

And that's not the energy Alex needed.

And so

as they wrap things up, I think

he's trying to feel good about something.

And so he decides to make fun of the Q people.

Great.

And

he seems to be talking about himself.

Oh, goddammit.

All right.

So, in congressional hearings about Epstein, does Trump keep doubling down?

I mean, how bad does that get?

How Trump plays it is up to him, but I don't see him, if he hasn't done anything different yet, I don't think he'll do something different in the future.

So I think he'll try to punt it.

I think he'll try to pass the hot potato.

And I think it's just going to become a big shit fest, just like the Ukraine thing, the Ukraine call, the Russia gate.

He's never been particularly good at this stuff.

So I think it's just going to be a big, ugly mess.

And the

underlining is the Q-tards saying he was going to expose all the pedophile rings.

They don't know what to do now with this.

Are you sure?

They still have their theories.

I still get it on X.

I still get people saying there is no yellow fringe on the flag today.

You know what that means?

And we're like, no, what does that mean?

No, they're like, you know, he's going to bust the pedophiles, and now they know what to do with this.

Right.

Wait,

that's your whole thing, Alex.

Literally, your thing was he was going to bust all of the pedophiles in the world.

Yeah, and now you don't know what to do with this.

No, because he's a pedophile.

You're talking about yourself and claiming it's the Q people.

Yep.

And then Nick is making fun of the fringe on the flag.

That's sovereign citizen shit.

That's Alex's maritime law.

That's Alex's bread and butter from way back.

Oh, my God.

They are just making fun of what Alex is and pretending it's someone else.

Yep.

I don't think this is good for anyone, except Nick.

Yeah, that's it.

It comes out way ahead.

That is exactly right.

That is exactly right.

In this world, Nick is playing it the way that you should play it.

Yep.

In this media space,

what Alex represents

is

kind of a vestigial thing.

He was really helpful when you needed to speak in code and you needed to

worry about social acceptability and people

just being like, I don't want to give you any money.

You're a bigot.

And that has gone.

That is no longer necessary.

That beetle was really important when the wasp was a larvae, eating it from the inside out in order to gain all that strength.

But then once it becomes a wasp, it doesn't need you anymore.

Right.

And it flies away.

Right.

And like Lee Atwater has said, you know, the Southern strategy,

busing and

states' rights and all that stuff was meaningful code because you couldn't just yell slurs.

And that is a statement I think that is archaic now.

And Nick knows how to surf these waters, clearly.

And yeah, Alex is going to get just kind of outrun.

People are going to change.

Yep.

It's going to happen.

And I think that, honestly, that doesn't...

I don't know how much it changes the calculus for Alex.

Sure.

Because most of his audience is probably,

at this point, old people who don't know what

the internet is.

Right.

Well, it feels like what is dead can never die levels of territory of like, yeah, he's a walking corpse, but also he will never stop walking.

Yeah.

And I think that whoever's there is there.

And I don't think that they're like, they're not the young kids who are going to take over turning point meetings or whatever.

And so Nick is almost, it feels almost more like he's doing this for sport than there is a practical poaching that's going on.

Sure.

But Alex, I think, believes

that he has a possibility to poach Nick's audience.

Yeah.

Like he thinks it's going to go that direction.

Right.

And that's.

But that's Nick's advantage, right?

It's going to happen.

And

that's why it's smart to do it now because it's going to happen to the next guy.

Alex will no longer be the target once Nick quits to a certain point, then it'll be the next guy, and the next guy will be the target, and the next guy will not be Alex.

So, there'll be at least a little bit of a higher standard of quality when it comes to trying to steal his shit.

Yeah, yeah,

anyway, um, this is a bummer, but it's kind of exactly what the progression of how the Epstein case, yeah, uh, the mishandling of it on Trump's part, it's wild, the uh, the right-wing media implosion around it.

This is how this goes.

Yep.

And

I don't know.

Man, just watching it.

Just watching it.

It's like,

you know, you just don't think it's real.

You just don't.

Yeah.

It's all playing out like a movie would, but it's not a good movie.

No.

No.

No.

And it's,

you know,

you want it to not be real because there's something kind of funny about these people as characters.

Exactly.

But it is unfortunately real and involves the president.

It is funny.

It is funny.

It is.

That's the problem.

The problem is it is funny.

It is kind of funny.

Yeah.

It's just also horrifying.

Yeah.

The stakes are awful, but it's a little funny.

Yeah.

But we cannot dwell in this forever.

Right.

And there is ultimately no fundamental truth, I don't think, that is to be found from Alex's,

can I please keep Trump

stand?

Yeah.

Like there isn't, there isn't some deeper truth behind that.

And as it stands in the present day, we are in a situation where the courts have ordered that the liquidation of Infowars can move forward.

And Trump has essentially sent federal troops into D.C.

So we've got to we've got to move along.

Sure.

And we've had our fun with the Epstein stuff.

Yeah.

And

I bid Alex adieu with this horrific attempt at damage control.

But we'll be back with another episode.

Indeed, we will.

Until then, though, we have a website.

Indeed, we do.

It's KnowledgeFight.com.

Yep, we'll be back.

But until then, I'm Neo.

I'm Leo.

I'm DZX Clark.

I am the mysterious professor.

Woo, yeah, woo, yeah, woo.

And now here comes the sex robot.

Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.

Thanks for holding.

Hello, Alex.

I'm a first-time caller.

I'm a huge fan.

I love your work.

I love you.