Last Update on the Left - Episode 4 - Columbine Revisited

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Speaker 2 What? Crocodile Rock. Oh, that's a good one.
I mean, it's, yeah. Yeah, that's a good one.
It gets stuck in your head. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Remember when we were young? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I always think of NFL Rocks, which is this VHS I had when I was when I was a kid, and it was basically just big hits and touchdowns. And it was like a two-hour music video.

Speaker 2 And they used Crocodile Rock? That was the halftime show.

Speaker 2 And it was just Crocodile Rock and a bunch of cheerleaders. So Crocodile Rock was like burnt into my head because it was like the first time I saw lots of ladies.

Speaker 2 It's incredible that Crocodile Rock doesn't make you think of crocodiles, considering how much you love the gators. I love gators.
You know, crocodiles, you're cool too.

Speaker 2 Don't think I disrespect you, but I'm a gator boy first.

Speaker 2 But, you know, crocodiles do rock. You know, I don't know what to do about it.
You know, but

Speaker 2 I fed a crocodile not too long ago, Maximo. Yeah.
Yeah, that fucker ate a rat, dude. We had a couple rats.
You know, the, you know, crocodiles in zoos, uh, they don't, they eat like three rats a week.

Speaker 2 That's it, 17-foot crocodile. That's all they eat.
Isn't that crazy? My God, welcome to the last podcast on the left, ladies and gentlemen. My mind is blown.
They're only eating three rats a week.

Speaker 2 My name's Marcus Barks. I'm here with the man that has all the croc facts, all the gator facts, Ed Larson.
Yes, you gotta watch out for those crocodiles. Gators are bees, crocodiles are wasps.

Speaker 2 What? Anglo-Saxon Protestants.

Speaker 2 Unfortunately, today, though, we are missing our boy Henry Zabrowski.

Speaker 2 In case you didn't know, Henry's father passed this week. So we're giving him the week off.

Speaker 2 And instead of a new episode, what we're going to be giving you guys this week is two update episodes. We released one on Monday.
That would be the Infield Poltergeist. And today we're going to be...

Speaker 2 You know, I don't think they did it.

Speaker 2 You don't think so? No,

Speaker 2 no, yeah, no, no, the ghosts, I think I think they're innocent because

Speaker 2 this ghost slander has gone too far. That means that the kids did it, yes

Speaker 2 goes completely against what you said in the update episode. I don't remember.

Speaker 2 Well, I guess to explain a little bit about the update episodes, what we're doing with that, of course, we did uh last update on the left as a Series XM exclusive all last year, uh, but now we're able to release those episodes episodes for free to the entire audience on our main feed.

Speaker 2 So what we're doing is we're basically when we have a week where we don't have like a last podcast classic, you know, the big, thick, yeah, meaty. Yeah, your Patty Hearst, your Batavias.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and the massive one that we've got started. We've got a big history series coming up next week that I am so fucking pumped for.
We've got to start working on it.

Speaker 2 I've been more excited for anything. anything to be honest with you.
Yeah. Yeah.
This is the top banana for me. This one's such a big one.
It's got so much history. It's good.

Speaker 2 it's so fucking thick you're not going to be able to swallow it yeah yeah lots of you know headshots

Speaker 2 that's a little teaser old teaser we got we got we got some headshots it's a really good teaser and it works on a lot of different levels really on this story uh so on the weeks that we don't have like a big thick media episode we're going to give you guys uh an update episode uh to kind of fill in the gap so thank you very much everybody for uh for understanding this week uh we appreciate the outpouring of support that you guys have uh given henry Henry very much appreciates it as well.

Speaker 2 Jackie, as well. And Jackie absolutely appreciates it.

Speaker 2 It's a hard time, and you never know when these things are going to happen. And so

Speaker 2 shout out to Big Henry. And in honor of you, Big Henry, we're going to talk about your most favorite thing in the world.
Colin Bine.

Speaker 2 I don't know if it was, it might have been his favorite flower. I don't know.
It could have been.

Speaker 2 If he was there to stop him, if he was the cop on campus.

Speaker 2 It was 1999. No cops on campus.
We did. We got them.
Really? Yeah, I had cops on campus the whole time. Wow.
But also, like, you went to a tiny school.

Speaker 2 I went to a school of like 700 kids in my graduating class. Jesus.
Twice the size of my town. Yeah, yeah.
So that's, you know, we were huge. No, no, Rochester ISD in Texas did not have any cops.

Speaker 2 We had one cop in town. Actually, you know what? I take that back.
We did have a cop on campus because our town's cop was also the school maintenance man. Yeah, you know, you got to have lots of jobs.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you really do. Yeah, lots of hats, but they're all covered in shit.

Speaker 2 Well, enjoy this update episode, everybody. And we will be back next week with a brand new episode.
Some thick history stuff. Can't fucking wait for it.
But thank you very much.

Speaker 2 And we'll see y'all soon. 420 Blaze Op.
Yeah, Columbine.

Speaker 2 That's when the cannibalism started.

Speaker 2 Last update on the left.

Speaker 2 That's how you want to start?

Speaker 2 I had a whole we had a fine bit

Speaker 2 already worked out.

Speaker 2 And you made us restart so you could turkey gobble.

Speaker 2 I'm getting ready to talk, right? Because this is going to be a serious one of these, right? Is this serious today? I mean, it's going to be serious-ish. Yeah, I mean, it's Columbine.

Speaker 2 Welcome to Last Update on the Left, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Marcus Parks.
I'm not happy about Columbine Henry Zabrowski.

Speaker 2 I'm Ed Larson, and Columbine is bad.

Speaker 2 You know what? Same thing.

Speaker 2 First of all.

Speaker 2 First of all, it's just nice to set the tone up top. Yeah, yeah.
Baseline, Columbine

Speaker 2 was bad. The massacre.

Speaker 2 The massacre. The shooting, not the city.
The town's fine. I don't know.
I've never been to the town.

Speaker 2 I mean, the Columbine's card, but they're fine. The flower is also fine.
You know, the Columbine is the state flower of Colorado. Yes, you taught me this the other day.

Speaker 2 And I was just as fascinated then

Speaker 2 as I am today. Now, I will say we covered, this is our update of our Columbine coverage from almost a decade ago.
Yeah. I think maybe more than a decade ago, getting real damn close.
Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 2 It really is. Now, I remember we recorded, I was recording the Cowmen album that we released in many, many years ago, almost a decade ago.

Speaker 2 And you guys did such a good job that nothing like this ever happened again. What was really important about what we do, what we do here as an organization is we stop crime before it begins.

Speaker 2 Yes. And that's why, as you've noticed, yeah, the incredible decline in mass shootings across this country ever since we put out our episodes.

Speaker 2 But a lot of, we did get some things incorrect, which is why we've decided to update those episodes. So, number one, you want to go back and listen to what we talked about back there.
It might help.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because, like, I don't need, I don't know if we need to recap the Columbine Massacre. We know what happened on 420 in 1999.
Man, that was my second 420. Yeah, I know, dude.

Speaker 2 It was fucking, I was having a great time. I skipped school.
By the way,

Speaker 2 all the kids, all the solders left. They all skipped school.

Speaker 2 They weren't there, but I've skipped school. I'm fucking hanging out.
I'm smoking with my boys. And we put on the TV.

Speaker 2 My fucking buzz just got fucking majorly harshed no literally everyone's just like i'm going home i'm going home i'm going home and so we now know that it was eric harris still in klebold i don't think we need to go through all of the various details that we covered from back in the day i mean really i i read back through the script that we had this was actually before we started doing super detailed episodes where we went through like point by point, blow by blow everything that happened like we just did with the Andrus Brevik series where we went through the entire thing.

Speaker 2 With Columbine, we just, and this is how we sort of used to do the shows back in the day, is this like we worked off of assumed knowledge a lot, where we just, you know, assumed everyone listening, like, you know what Columbine is.

Speaker 2 If you don't, these guys go let, you know, it's like a paragraph and then going into like sort of like analysis of the situation and talking about what, you know, people believed at the time and what was the actual truth.

Speaker 2 And that was sort of the tack that we took with it. We based a lot of the episode, not just on one book.

Speaker 2 We also used a few articles, but a lot of it was based on a book called Columbine by this guy named Dave Cullen, which is an incredible book. It's fantastically written.

Speaker 2 And what his supposition was with the book was that, you know, Dylan Klebold was kind of a puppet of Eric Harris. Yes.
Eric Harris was the aggressor. Eric Harris was a psychopath.

Speaker 2 Like he was the one that was a little more handsome. Dylan Klebold was the one with the big moon face.
Yeah. And that.
They were both ugly. They were both ugly men, yes.

Speaker 2 One has to be uglier. One has to be uglier, and Dylan Klebold was the uglier one.
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 But Eric Harris was a psychopath, according to Dave Collin, and that Dylan Klebold was extraordinarily depressed, and that Eric Harris kind of used Dylan Klebold as kind of a little assistant, someone to kind of cheer him on while he was doing it.

Speaker 2 And that Dylan Klebold was sort of a passive

Speaker 2 character, a passive character in this that just sort of went along with the whole thing.

Speaker 2 And the time when we, when I read the book, like, I was so, I had my mind blown because I had heard the original sort of pitch about Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, and we all sort of internalized it as a country because we were forced to.

Speaker 2 The idea that these were two misunderstood goth kids that were bullied and pushed to the point of murder.

Speaker 2 And then when Dave Cullen's book came out, that refuted that in a way that we all thought was really closer to the truth, which I does, it does prove to still be closer to the truth, which is the idea that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were aggressors and were kids that, yeah, yeah, sure, they were bullied, but they were also bullies into themselves.

Speaker 2 And that Eric Harris was a little bit more of a ladies' man, which is one of the corrections that we're going to get into because that's not real.

Speaker 2 But, like, certain things was like it pushed the spectrum to the other side, where it wasn't just a bunch of like nerds that got pushed too far.

Speaker 2 And then it was a thing about bullying, and then also still kind of created an anti-nerd movement across the country, anti-Goth movement, anti-cross,

Speaker 2 dude. Very much so.
I was in high school when this happened. I was a junior in high school.
I was in student council actually when this happened.

Speaker 2 And I remember them all sitting the next day when I decided to come back to school and out of my stone stupor. And I remember them all sitting, I must go.
The children need my leadership.

Speaker 2 Honestly, I probably said something very similar.

Speaker 2 And I remember they had, like, we had a two-hour meeting with like cops came in and like, they sat down students. And this is in Boca Raton, Florida.
Boca Raton, Florida.

Speaker 2 And I remember, and during our meeting, like, they made us, we had lunch like in the classroom.

Speaker 2 And like, while we're doing, some kid dressed up in a black trench coat stood up on a, in the cafeteria, was like, trench co mavia, motherfucker.

Speaker 2 And then, you know, and then he later got his ass kicked by all the black kids. But the, uh, but then, but it was, unfortunately, a stain on the goth community.
Of course.

Speaker 2 And everyone hated the goths for a little while. Well, let's go back and revisit some stuff.
Well, I want to revisit a ninth grade Henry Sprowski because

Speaker 2 one of the truly, honestly, one of the worst repercussions of Columbine, besides the death and this wave of anti-gothhing, is that the play I was in in the ninth grade was canceled when that I was in.

Speaker 2 It was a play by,

Speaker 2 which is like also interesting by the

Speaker 2 very talented Woody Allen called Don't Drink the Water, which is a play that we did at the time. And

Speaker 2 the play was canceled because there was a gunshot and a bomb in it. And it was coming out that summer, the same summer as when Columbine happened.

Speaker 2 And a little truth teller by the name of Henry Zabrowski. a little too real for high school, was interviewed asking about the implications of this.
Interviewed by a local news station?

Speaker 2 Tampa Bay Times. Are you serious? Yes.
Now, I want to know, like, I see you've got it pulled up in front of you. How are you going to, are you going to read this in ninth grade Henry Zabrowski voice?

Speaker 2 Are you going to read this in such a way as to make you sound better? I'm going to read it exactly as it was delivered.

Speaker 2 They think it's Harry Boone. That's Jackie.

Speaker 2 That's my sister. That's you.
That's Jackie.

Speaker 2 I was the president. I got to be president of the drama club.
You cannot do that while being inarticulate. You were president freshman year? No, I was already being scouted.

Speaker 2 No, so you were not president at this time. They already knew.
All right. I got so many lies in this immediately.
They got pushed right to the front.

Speaker 2 So this is like, so there's a lot of talk about here. So it was canceled.
And then they decided to talk to me. So this is the quote from the actual

Speaker 2 reporter Brian Gilmer, who I don't remember,

Speaker 2 from back in the day. So this is what Henry Zabrowski said.

Speaker 2 We see basically why they did it. I'm angry still.
I poured a lot of work into the play, and some of my grades suffered. It was just important to all of us.

Speaker 2 Yes, they all watched, and I stood forward, they said.

Speaker 2 And then Henry Zabrowski then said the administration knew that they might be taking it too far, but they said it might be better to take it too far.

Speaker 2 And so, yeah, not only was I a warrior for the first time, not only was I a warrior for free speech, but also I reached across the aisle in a John McCain way

Speaker 2 so even as a ninth grader I was a maverick yeah and I'm gonna what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna read it how I'd imagine it actually sounded We basically see why they did it. I'm angry still.

Speaker 2 I poured a lot of work into the play and some of my grades suffered. It was just important to all of us.
See, I am the source.

Speaker 2 So you see, now you really got to see what happens in media. Now, this is all, this entire little play act that these two did, because they weren't actually making fun of me.

Speaker 2 This was a play act to talk about the subjective nature of information and how it's represented by the media. And how, like, and you really have to.
He worked really hard on it.

Speaker 2 You see, again, it's about how, but then we hear him, you hear me, right? Imagine American flag behind me. Norma Ray wasn't wearing a bra, standing on top of the table, going, union, union.

Speaker 2 Everybody was like, that's when they were asking me to unionize. And I said, no, dictatorship.
Yeah. And then I came forward and they all chose me.

Speaker 2 Because you'll see, there were seniors in that play that could have been talking to the rules. I just think your drama teacher wanted to go to Nassau that summer.

Speaker 2 He was like, oh, this seems like a great opportunity to cancel this fucking play. No, Mrs.
Webster is quoted in the article talking about how she fought for us. Yeah.
Wow. Mrs.
Webster, how was Mrs.

Speaker 2 Webster? She, we got, it was, we had a strange relationship.

Speaker 2 Oof.

Speaker 2 How I've never heard this before. House, how strange.
We had a strange relationship. She didn't like that you were so outgoing and cursed occasionally.

Speaker 2 Well, the thing was, is that much like an aforementioned, let's just say the former president of the United States, I was so popular I was inevitable.

Speaker 2 And so the problem was that they could not stop me. They couldn't stop the train from going.
You dodging the station. You're dodging the question, though.
No, I'm saying that.

Speaker 2 What strange. It's exactly the reason why traditional media doesn't want to let me inside of its halls.

Speaker 2 Because what they're afraid of is that I will then change everything. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But that's not answering the question of what kind of strange relationship you had with Mrs. Watson.
Sometimes, Mrs. Webster, sometimes the student becomes a master.

Speaker 2 She hated you

Speaker 2 because you were full of yourself. No.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, we were fine.
Okay. But it was weird.

Speaker 2 It's like not interesting.

Speaker 2 It's hard to describe what our relationship was was like because towards my senior year, because when I was president of the drama club and then became like it did sort of feel like I was building sort of a little regime around me.

Speaker 2 You know, and I think that people were getting angry. And then I took over the talent show.
And then, you know, my tastes have not changed all that much. Right.

Speaker 2 But I also had the power of the assistant principal. who was on my side.
And then we would get together.

Speaker 2 He would pull me from class so that we could coordinate because we always did big, we always would do a big lip sync.

Speaker 2 The popular dudes and the assistant principal would do a lip sync at the end of the talent show. Wow.
And so we'd always do like, we did

Speaker 2 in sync, we did Full Monty, which is actually, now I realize that's weird. We did Backstreet Boys.
Yeah. Full Monty was very popular back then.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 But then, like, but I danced the Fulmonty stripping dance with my assistant principal. Oh, interesting.
Yeah, we took our pants. It seems illegal.
You know, we did it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, 1999, 2000 was at the turn of the millennium, it was a strange time for us all. It really was.

Speaker 2 My drama teacher junior year pulled me aside and said, you are keeping me away from having a clean drama department.

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Speaker 2 So when we covered the Columbine series, like I know with

Speaker 2 Dave Cullen's book, like some people have a huge problem with it. I don't think it's that big of a deal.

Speaker 2 They have a huge problem with it because I think they want Dylan Klebow to have much more responsibility than Dave Cullen paints him out to be.

Speaker 2 Because in the time when we recorded the episode, if I remember correctly, like we sympathized with Dylan Klebold a little bit.

Speaker 2 You know, like I think, I think I myself said, but for the grace of God, go I.

Speaker 2 You know, with Dylan Klebold, like being a very depressed kid, being a very depressed high school kid, and, you know, just someone like Eric Harris, if there was like a character like that, you know, scooping up a depressed kid and turning him into a killing machine.

Speaker 2 And, you know, the refutations, I totally get. I totally get

Speaker 2 because people have come out and like said, like, Dylan Kleeboldt's mother and be like, no, my son was a dangerous individual.

Speaker 2 Well, that's the big difference is that her book, A Mother's Reckoning, came out in 2016. We did our episodes in 2015.
So it was before that included dialogue. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I also partially think the reason why. People just get upset across the board because this is an extremely touchy subject.
Yes.

Speaker 2 Kids killing kids makes nobody like super happy. No.

Speaker 2 It's again, not a blast. Not a lot to joke about.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 I think a lot of people then obviously attach super hyper-emotional issues to this. And I also think that there are people that want, unfortunately, this is my pushback.

Speaker 2 They want the nerds being pushed to the edge narrative to be real. They want that to be real.

Speaker 2 I think a part of the reason why people are mad about the Dave Collin thing, it's just more that Dave Collin pushed it all the way to the other side.

Speaker 2 And it wasn't until A Mother's Reckoning came out that we really saw her deep dive into her son's own journals that showed that Dylan Kleebold was a lot more of an active member of the two than it was kind of shown in the beginning.

Speaker 2 Well, there wasn't a ton of push. As far as like the bully narrative goes, like there is some pushback on that.
That's not a huge thing. It's not a huge thing.

Speaker 2 I'm just saying why people have the emotional reactions. You need a reason.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
They want a reason. Everybody wants a reason.

Speaker 2 Because they said, like, Sue talked about Dylan asking like his father, like, what to do about younger kids that are picking on him.

Speaker 2 And during sophomore year, Dylan said something to Tom about like hating the jocks. They don't bother me.
I'm 6'4, but they sure give Eric hell. Yeah, but that's the yeah, Eric was a piece of shit.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Eric was a fucking asshole. Like, he was an absolute fucking dickhead.
I will not take that off my plate. No.
He's an asshole dickhead that technically, I'm glad he's dead.

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm glad they're both fucking dead. But the thing is, the ER dick, they did not receive any more bullying than anybody else else that was a standard fringe member of high school society.

Speaker 2 They received far less bullying than the goth kids because that was the horrible thing about it, is that they were the ones who bullied the goth kids.

Speaker 2 I mean, the F-word thrown around quite a bit at the goth kids, the actual trench coat mafia, because it all came from, like, it was, it's such a dumb high school thing.

Speaker 2 One goth kid bought a black duster for a Halloween costume for a fucking Dracula costume, thought it was super cool, started wearing it to school.

Speaker 2 The other goth kids started wearing their trench coats too, and they're like, fuck yeah, trench coat mafia, bro. The reason why Dylan and Eric wore trench coats, so they could hide their guns.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like so they could carry weapons, and also because they thought it looked super cool.

Speaker 2 They didn't have anything, like they did at one point, like, I think Eric floated like the idea to one of those kids who were like, man, wouldn't it be like awesome if we just took guns and like shot up the entire fucking school?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But the kid didn't bite at all. He's like, no, I'm not going to do that.
Yes. Yeah, because he floated it around.

Speaker 2 He was basically trying to see if there was somebody else who would bite to help him because Eric Harris was a pussy and he didn't want to do it alone. I do think that that's a good thing.

Speaker 2 He didn't want to do it alone.

Speaker 2 He wanted...

Speaker 2 He wanted his own self-fashioned assistant. Yeah, he did.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 he did groom Dylan Clebold for it, but that's the thing.

Speaker 2 The point that is made that I think is a great point, and I don't think that we we brought it up in the show is that you know he could have told somebody at any time dylan could have told someone at any time well back then this is like the first time this really happened no one thought anyone would really do anything like this well there had been a lot of we've had a lot of mass shootings across the history of america

Speaker 2 but not like this not kids not not kids shooting other kids in high school i think there were except for the i hate mondays girl but yeah that but that was a an anomaly and it was quite a long time before that it was and the university of of Texas of course.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and that was in the 60s.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but like high school kids killing other high school kids like that was because leading up to the shooting like there was a lot of people that had reported Eric Harris to the police specifically this kid I think is his name was Brooks like Eric Harris had like directly threatened this kid on his fucking website, which is probably like geocities.com slash southbeach slash 4748.

Speaker 2 Yeah, dude. You know, like fucking, he was a Geocity site.
Definitely. Or Angel Fire or some shit like that, the type of websites used to code yourself.

Speaker 2 But the cops, they reported that. He had been reported for making pipe bombs.
He'd been reported for a lot of shit. And the cops just sat on it.

Speaker 2 They just didn't do anything. We saw those kids being kids and kids saying fucked up shit.

Speaker 2 And they didn't, like, on one hand, they're trying to, their hands are in that way tied because it's like now they come down on you like a pile of bricks.

Speaker 2 But back in the day, it was way more like, you know, like they weren't trying to over-police the kids. They were trying to like, you know, let kids be kids.
Also, no money,

Speaker 2 which we discover is a pattern with police.

Speaker 2 They never really want to get involved in a family as much as they can because of how complicated it is and how much like everybody has to go to court now and no one wants to deal with it.

Speaker 2 So well, that's also where the most incidents occur is in domestic situations. Yes.
And that they, and a lot of times, what do they do? They're like, you must press charges. We have to separate you.

Speaker 2 We have to, so it's either like, it either goes to, there's no like

Speaker 2 four out of 10 on domestic violence. It has to either go like 10 out of 10, we're taking one of you out of the situation, taking you to jail, or we're like leaving.

Speaker 2 We're just going to be like, all right, bye. You know, like, and so there's nothing they can do.
And so something like this, our mistake really was painting

Speaker 2 or just fully like this idea that Dylan Klebold

Speaker 2 was like just some coasting.

Speaker 2 person.

Speaker 2 And I think it was because we may have identified with him too much. I think that we view, especially as younger

Speaker 2 men. I know I certainly did.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And as younger men, I feel like that was, it was more like you could see more of this, but as I get older, the more I separate from that and understand that like homicidal actions change everything.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You know, like, of course, but it's, it, it's really like that point of it being like, everybody gets bullied.
Everybody gets treated like shit. I don't know.
I don't know anybody who wasn't.

Speaker 2 I know the people that weren't bullied then just got like, to be frank, ugly. Everything just like grew up into some like, they were like, anybody who was hot in middle school became fucking

Speaker 2 gross piece of shit later on. Like they all turned into just Facebook blobs later on down the line.

Speaker 2 And so, but for me, I look at this and you're, I think at the time, I thought that that made more sense. And now it does not make sense to me.

Speaker 2 Now I look at it and be like, he must have had, like, you, it takes two. Yeah, it does.
And my understanding of things like at 41 is so much larger than

Speaker 2 31. Also, I know how much more I don't understand.
Yeah, exactly. I felt fucking 40 versus them.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, because at 31, you know, I was a lot closer to adolescence than I am now.

Speaker 2 So romanticized

Speaker 2 a little bit. Yeah, a little bit.
And still, like, looked at that time

Speaker 2 in, yeah, a little bit more like rose-colored glasses.

Speaker 2 And now.

Speaker 2 I understand a lot more about psychopathology. I understand a lot more about the brains of these people and their,

Speaker 2 and what they do. And I have a lot less sympathy.
It's just that, you know, but there was one day when, you know, just the moment it crosses over into homicidal nature, then, you know,

Speaker 2 no fucking sympathy whatsoever. Just none at all.
Like, you just lose all of it the moment you do. The moment you hurt someone else, it's like fucking any form of violence, in my opinion.

Speaker 2 You know, you, you know, that's my opinion. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And there was also, you know, other shit in Cullen's book, like, you know, things that, like, because he, Cullen made sure to say that Eric Harris was a ladies' man.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that was the whole, he was pushing it to the other side. Yeah, he was pushing to the other side.
The Eric Harris, like, was very, actually very popular.

Speaker 2 And he pushed it. He just pushed it too far.
He pushed it over, like, saying that, like, he got days all the time. But based on his journal entries, like, Eric likely died a virgin.

Speaker 2 But on the other hand, like...

Speaker 2 That doesn't just because you died a virgin doesn't mean that you weren't going on a lot of dates. I was going on a ton of dates before I lost my virginity.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 I think it was more so that he was an aggressive loser, like in the aggressive loser category in high school. But still, girls were just saying the words that they thought he was cute.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because he was kind of a traditional, especially if you are, if you're an elder millennial, there was a style.

Speaker 2 during this time period like 1999 i remember because it was like right after i moved from new york to florida and in new york we were all still like in 1989 you know what i mean like it was way like.

Speaker 2 Beck, you all look like you were in the Beastie Boys. Yeah.
Yes. Leather jackets and shit.

Speaker 2 You know, I had my starter jacket, my Looney Tunes, dresses, wrappers. I mean, we all had.
Yeah, we had that. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that was very popular.

Speaker 2 But then that kind of changed when all of a sudden I moved to Florida and it was like that Abercrombie and Fitch style. Pack son.
All that stuff just took over. Janko jeans.
Everybody. Foo-boo.

Speaker 2 And Eric Harris was like a really good example of the style of dude that every girl was kind of talking about at the time, as far as I was concerned, was just like thin, spiky, blonde hair, like kind of like looks kind of like the bully from

Speaker 2 the dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like kind of a prick.
Like people, I mean, I hate to say it girl.

Speaker 2 Everybody at the time thought a prick was like super sexy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm wrong.
It was a rough time, 1999 to like 2005. It was like a rough time for

Speaker 2 be a young man in society. It was intense.
We were taught all the wrong shit. Absolutely.
Yes. Yes, we were.
And so Eric Harris, I think, was just a full example of that.

Speaker 2 And that it was just more that Dylan Klebold was extremely ugly. Yeah.
And Eric Harris was just kind of vaguely normal looking. And so some girls just said that he was cute.

Speaker 2 And that's what he took off running with that. And then also...
Cullen kind of portrayed the Klebold and Harris family as a little bit richer

Speaker 2 than they probably were. Far more.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's small factual inaccuracies. Like he would say that, you know, Klebold's mother was Jewish when Klebold's mother was, in fact, half Jewish.

Speaker 2 You know, he would say that they were wealthy when really their house was large, but it was a fixer-upper with a lot of rats. Also, Columbine's a nice place.
Columbine's a very nice place.

Speaker 2 Someone who came from Boca Raton, a lot of people go poor trying to live in these nice places. Oh, of course.

Speaker 2 My parents live in a part of Florida that for when we were struggling in New York, we then moved to Florida.

Speaker 2 And then it was a, we moved to a nice neighborhood in Florida because we could afford it versus our bad neighborhood in New York.

Speaker 2 And then we, but we were then weirdly not like the poor people in a very rich neighborhood because that was one of those sleeper Florida neighborhoods where it was filled with extremely rich people.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that same thing happened to us. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I was down the street from Hulk Hogan. Oh, really? Yeah.
I had Mike Tyson. Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 He tried to bring tigers.

Speaker 2 They're like, Mike, you got to get rid of the tigers.

Speaker 2 You're magical.

Speaker 2 We know, Mike. I had a guy that everyone called Bo Diddley.
Oh, really? He was weird. And when I used to ride by his house on my bike, he'd stick his dogs on me and laugh and laugh at me.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry, I might have to say that. Bo Diddley, Bo Diddley, Bo Diddley.

Speaker 2 Get him. Get him.
Get him. He's mostly bones.
No, no, I told this story before. Yeah, his son was arrested for raping his grandmother.
Wow.

Speaker 2 Jesus fucking Christ. Yes.
Why are we covering that?

Speaker 2 No, I grew up in it.

Speaker 2 And that's the crazy thing about it is that, like, I think I grew up in such a dark, weird place that, like, Columbine was a blip. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Barely, like, it barely registered. No one talked.
Like, everyone just kind of went like,

Speaker 2 and then no one, but like, there was no, like, the school didn't address it. Nobody talked to us about it.
It was not in any way whatsoever. Team of grief counselors.
We did too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they all came onto the school. I don't know why.
Yeah, they were all we're in the fucking class, you know.

Speaker 2 We're like, we look out into the fucking, I could look out the window and see a gun in like my friend's car. Oh, like on like on the back, on the fucking, on the rack in his truck.

Speaker 2 Like, you could see guns, see guns. Very different.
Yeah, very, very different. But yeah, just barely registered.
Yeah, there's just a guy with a piece of wheat in his mouth just going like, yep.

Speaker 2 This day just culling themselves.

Speaker 2 All right, children, now sit down. Let me tell you about why we should have won the Civil War.

Speaker 2 No, it was, yeah, no one really paid much attention to it at all. I just remember I'd read about it in the paper, but nobody really talked about it.
It was very bizarre. It was very strange.

Speaker 2 My play was canceled.

Speaker 2 My play. I had spent months.
My school work suffered. And you know how important I took my school work? Yeah, you just finally an excuse for my Ds.

Speaker 2 Honestly, it was really like Columbine, yeah.

Speaker 2 Columbine's really fucking up my score.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm dramatized. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Who thinks the difference between like going to a really small school and going to like gigantic schools? Like you guys went to gigantic schools. Yeah, over 700 kids in my class.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and that's 400 more people than were in my town. Yeah,

Speaker 2 or 300 more. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And my school's population was like your football game.

Speaker 2 I don't know, actually, if our football game would probably be something like

Speaker 2 80.

Speaker 2 Shit. Like 80 people,

Speaker 2 if that, if that many, maybe 100.

Speaker 2 I had like 45, 50 kids in every class I had. Oh, yeah, dude.

Speaker 2 Man, I used to regularly perform in front of like a thousand children. I think about that all the time.
I used to do the pep rallies. I was like, I would do an hour.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 No, no, I watched your people

Speaker 2 improv in front of a thousand people.

Speaker 2 That's awesome. That's like 50 or 60 kids in like the entire high school.
Damn.

Speaker 2 Yeah, in the whole high school. Yeah, it was fucking nuts, man.
It was weird. And I guess maybe because everybody knew everybody else.
And that's the thing. Even I was like the weird kid.

Speaker 2 Like for the pep rallies,

Speaker 2 every class got to draw their own poster. And I always drew these like...

Speaker 2 crazy violent posters like just like super fucking violent and like it would be like all the rest would be like you know beat the bobcats and mom would be like decapitate the bobcats and it would be like a guy like holding a head like above him.

Speaker 2 See, nowadays,

Speaker 2 you'd get pulled in with, like, there'd be like a psychiatrist there. There would be like the local congressman.

Speaker 2 But even then, like, I guess because everybody knew everybody so well, like, everyone's like, that's just Marcus.

Speaker 2 Well, Marcus is creative. He's creative.
Like, you know, he likes his things. He likes his, you know, he likes his horror movies.
And, you know, and I like a horror movie every once in a while.

Speaker 2 But, you know, that's just Marcus. He's fine.

Speaker 2 He's all right. You don't got to, you don't got to worry about Marcus.
He's just got his nose in the book all the time. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then you see the teacher same piece of weed, just been like, These kids all get to go to school. 17.
I'm sitting down to the swamps of Doonang. Actually,

Speaker 2 I did have one teacher that was a Vietnam vet. That dude was fucked up.
Oh, of course.

Speaker 2 Oh, you think homework's bad? Who've ever stepped in a hole and had a bamboo chute shoot through your foot while your buddy's getting his dick bit off by a goddamn river snake?

Speaker 2 While you're serving for your country, you come back and no one comes to the parade.

Speaker 2 Well, he wasn't tough at all. He was shell-shocked.
Like he had like kind of a

Speaker 2 stutter.

Speaker 2 Yeah, okay, everyone needs to just quiet. Everyone needs to quiet down now, get real quiet.
You know, you're just being a little bit too loud. That's so much worse.

Speaker 2 That's so much worse than the grass.

Speaker 2 So much worse. It was just, it was so much worse because I'd just sit there and watch him and just be like, fuck me.
Like this guy, like

Speaker 2 the word does to him. You just see like his eyes go blank and you hear like

Speaker 2 as he's like watching like jungles burn. No, this guy is down burn out.

Speaker 2 This is the end. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I only fresh

Speaker 2 on the shit. Like, it's him doing the karate in front of the mirror at home.

Speaker 2 No, he's that guy that was in the like the scene where they show up in the fucking trench warfare and they're like, who's in charge here? And the guy goes, ain't you? Ain't you?

Speaker 2 Never get off the boat. Yeah, that's that was that guy's Vietnam.
He did not come back tough at all. Oh, no, no.

Speaker 2 Believe me. And

Speaker 2 the culture wars we're in are going to be no different. The culture wars, what? That we're in right now.
We're all just veterans of the culture war, friend. You are.
You and me.

Speaker 2 Eddie, this is just a we're front lines, green brace.

Speaker 2 That's my Vietnam. We're in it.
So, one of the things that has kind of, I guess, gotten bigger since we did our episode,

Speaker 2 as far as an update on like the cultural significance of Columbine, is that we saw a large increase in Columbine fandom. Oh, yes.

Speaker 2 This was a big deal. I mean, really, it did.
I would say it started around most, around the time that most weird things started on the internet. It was about 2012.

Speaker 2 That's, God damn, that's just the year that everything changed. Tumblr and all of that, the idea of that's when we went full like digital hive mind.

Speaker 2 That was like when it was really starting to happen, When we were really starting to see the secret thoughts, it probably should have kept secret or kept niche. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 The idea of serial killer grouperies is not an old, it's not a new phenomenon. No, but it is, it got definitely superpowered by the internet.
Yeah, it really did.

Speaker 2 And like, you'd get, see, like, all these, we used to, at our old live shows, when we just played exclusively videos, like, we'd find like three or four like Eric Harris tribute videos. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 It'd be like a girl. There would be like a girl talking about how cute she she thought he was and how much she loved him and how she would worship him and all this shit, like just really insane shit.

Speaker 2 Remember the homies? The girls that all started like dying their hair orange after James Holmes

Speaker 2 shot up the

Speaker 2 movie theater? Keith Ledger's performance was so powerful in the dark night, it launched a world of douchebags. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It was wild to think just how good of an actor he he probably would have to now like apologize for the Joker, which is really sad.

Speaker 2 He would probably have to go and be like, I'm sorry I didn't mean to make everybody mad or crazy and talk about chaos and shit. I think he'd have more gravity toss than that.

Speaker 2 I think he'd have a little, I think he'd go out and talk about it openly. I hope so.
He fucking worked hard work in Joker, and it was the best, the best comic book movie ever.

Speaker 2 And I'm not updating that. I don't care what anybody says.
People try to tell me that the Dark Knight's not the best comic book movie ever. You will not take that from me.
I like dark superheroes.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's good. It's just the only thing that keeps it from being the best comic book movie ever is Christian Bale's Batman voice in that movie because it's fucking stupid.

Speaker 2 I threw a bottle cap at him.

Speaker 2 This man is not a joker. It is.

Speaker 2 I like

Speaker 2 it. I'm still traumatized about this play that was canceled.
I am still traumatized even thinking about the other

Speaker 2 one. Bring this Woody Allen play back.
I think that is the time. That is the time.

Speaker 2 You know what really no one's talking about here is how does Woody Allen come back? Yeah. How does he come back? Because think about how he felt after Columbine.
He loves Ken.

Speaker 2 I'm so worried about him. He loved him.
But you know, it is crazy how they all ended up being right about Marilyn Manson.

Speaker 2 Yeah. But he didn't, his music didn't drive violence.
No, the man himself is a bad man. Yes, the man himself is a fucking horrible human being.
Yeah. Also, Boca Ratone.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know what it is, too, about Marilyn Manson. He's from Boca.

Speaker 2 He would be there a lot. His one of his family members, and he would

Speaker 2 spend time with. I used to see him at Borders all the time.

Speaker 2 He used to be be there all the time yeah he was just sit there and i remember my buddy went up to him just been like hey uh you marilyn manson and he's like full marilyn man

Speaker 2 no he was just like no and then he's like he's like you're marily manson and he's just like no i'm not

Speaker 2 yeah yeah don't look at me giant platform shoe yeah

Speaker 2 like yeah the white contact the black contact

Speaker 2 he's the only guy but since lewis carroll to get fat on absinthe

Speaker 2 he drinks so much absinthe.

Speaker 2 Bad faith from your blade.

Speaker 2 Hi, neighbor.

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Speaker 6 Are you ready to get spicy?

Speaker 2 These Doritos Golden Sriracha aren't that spicy. Maybe it's time to turn up the heat.
Or turn it down. It's time for something that's not too spicy.
Try Dorito's Golden Sriracha.

Speaker 2 Spicy, but not too spicy.

Speaker 2 No, of course. Yeah, I mean, that was the shitty thing about Columbine, too, is that before we get back to the group.
One of the only shitty things. Yeah,

Speaker 2 well, it's just how much people blamed like video games, violent movies, you know, all the music, all that bullshit. Like, it was fucking, it was stupid.

Speaker 2 Actually, Eric Harris's favorite band wasn't Marilyn Manson. He loved KM FDM.
Who did they get? Industrial. Oh, KM FDM's fucking sick.
You like KM FDM? Do you think I'd like them? Yes.

Speaker 2 I like Nine Inch Nails. You would love KM FDM DM.
Do you like Ministry? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'll give you some KM FDM. Okay, yeah.
I want to get in my industrial phase. Oh, you'll love it.
Hey, hey. Wow.

Speaker 2 Okay. Hey, I'm sold.

Speaker 2 That really hit. That is a good hit.

Speaker 2 I'm sold. You're sold.
You'd love it.

Speaker 2 You would absolutely fucking love it. So let's get back to these groupies for just a second.
I want to talk about one called Sol Pais.

Speaker 2 This is very recent.

Speaker 2 In mid-April 2019, a woman named Sol Pais, who was infatuated with Columbine, traveled from Miami to Denver with a one-way ticket and purchased a pump-action shotgun and ammunition.

Speaker 2 She purchased the shotgun legally at the Colorado gun broker, according to a post on the company's Facebook page.

Speaker 2 The gun shop is less than two miles away from Columbine High School, and she passed all background checks to legally purchase a firearm in Colorado. Yeah, Colorado's had a lot of crazy shootings.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, but isn't that the place where you just have to do the alphabet backwards?

Speaker 2 Isn't that one of those, like, how do you get a gun there by basically naming your favorite Sesame Street character, and if it's right, you get it, right?

Speaker 2 If it's anything but Snuffleupagus, then you get a gun.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, Snuffle Upagus, I still, we were talking about how if Big Bird died in the Challenger, Snuffleopagus would probably have more of a place in pop culture. Because he would be so sad.

Speaker 2 Because

Speaker 2 his sadness.

Speaker 2 Oh, I thought you meant that his sadness would catch on. No, it's because he's next in line.
He's next. No, he's Fredo.
No, Oscar the Grouch is next in line. Snufflepagus is Fredo.

Speaker 2 Snufflepagus isn't real.

Speaker 2 What are we doing? He's not real. He's on the show.
No, if anything, no, Snuffalopagus, I don't even think is in the top five. You can't kill what doesn't exist.

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 2 I don't know, know. Cancel culture.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 Ask John Henckley Jr. Do you see his dates getting killed everywhere? Cancel culture.
Doing it to him.

Speaker 2 Can you believe?

Speaker 2 He's doing fine. Yeah, he is out of fine.
I actually don't think he is. He's out of prison.
He shot a president.

Speaker 2 He's fine. Cancel culture.

Speaker 2 Claimed another victim.

Speaker 2 Pais had previously made comments about Columbine to friends and family members and had posted her thoughts about the massacre to online forums.

Speaker 2 According to officials, Pais had made credible but not specific threats before and after traveling from Miami to Denver.

Speaker 2 She also raised suspicions by purchasing a one-way plane ticket for April 15th, 16th, and 17th. Police in Florida contacted the Miami FBI office, which alerted the Denver office.

Speaker 2 Pais allegedly had a website in which she scanned handwritten journal entries talking about the massacre, the Columbine massacre. According to a CNN article, she scanned her own handwritten journals.

Speaker 2 She scanned her own handwritten journals and the point of writing it by hand you know i kind of like

Speaker 2 how up this is because that's such a that's a tell that's a look into her mental space yeah well it also it's also a look into how lazy she is very much so because you should just type you that's what i do quite often with writing is that i handwrite it first and then i type it up and that helps you edit that's an edit round yeah she never learned home row no no what's home row yeah the middle of the keyboard oh

Speaker 2 you think she was a tap tap tap, one finger at a time? I know, I tap. I got fast one fingers.
You really tap? You type?

Speaker 2 No, I do, but I don't do full official good typing, but I mostly use these two fingers. Oh, no.

Speaker 2 I use my wife's fingers.

Speaker 2 Your wife's fingers? I don't know. Yeah, it's fingering fingers.
Yeah, I don't know. Thank God she doesn't have Sirius.
Yeah, she.

Speaker 2 If you do download the Sirius app and you're hearing this, my beautiful wife, Natalie, I love you. I had a dream last night that your wife left you.

Speaker 2 For who?

Speaker 2 Just because you didn't want to be with him anymore. And you were living in this fucking horrible hotel, this really weird hotel.
It was like on the beach.

Speaker 2 Nothing's been the same since that play got canceled.

Speaker 2 Nothing's been the same. How is this episode so funny?

Speaker 2 It shouldn't be. Yeah, and me and Carolina had to like, you were so sad that me and Carolina were like bringing you groceries.
And, you know, we were driving this weird Volkswagen bug.

Speaker 2 You better do this, understand that that's what you're going to be doing. But it was also 1978.
That was the fun thing about it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and yeah, you were living on the beach. Because I just say, send it to Instacart.
Yeah, no, no, no, no. We had to come bring it to you in our Volkswagen Beetle.
That's incredible. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Which is Ted Bundy's car. Yeah.
Interesting. Same time period.
Interesting. How interesting.
You love. You've dreamed in the past? Yeah.
So that's crazy. That's never happened to me.

Speaker 2 I've never been like, oh, look, it's 1952. You know, that's crazy.
He's also been researching Can for six weeks. Yeah.
And I feel like that also helps that he's been mentally in 1978. Yeah.

Speaker 2 1968 to 1974. I don't care.

Speaker 2 I do care. I care.

Speaker 2 Not enough to be correct.

Speaker 2 But yeah, and then suddenly, oh man, do you guys ever have that thing in your dream?

Speaker 2 Do you get like really, really, really loud knocks in the dream and it jolts you awake and scares the shit out of you? I'm always tripping and falling. And then I wake up and I wasn't falling.

Speaker 2 No, just the dream was going on like regularly. and then I just heard like,

Speaker 2 and then I just fucking got up out and I thought that there was someone like outside my window, but there was nothing in there. There was just really loud knocks in my mind.
Maybe it was Bill Wilkins.

Speaker 2 Oh, fuck you.

Speaker 2 Fuck you.

Speaker 2 Fuck you.

Speaker 2 Shit off.

Speaker 2 Henry's wife can leave him. You need to be mentally prepared for when she leaves.

Speaker 2 Tell me. Why isn't Bill telling me? Don't tell him.
Tell me. You have to take care of him for a while.
Stop with her. Stay in.
Bill, you can tell her.

Speaker 2 so back to paise according to a cnn article some of the journals are barely legible sometimes because of the handwriting other times because of the scanning there are a number of crude drawings of weapons from long rifles to handguns and knives one drawing has a trench coat figure holding an apparent weapon that's why she scanned them because if you don't scan them you don't get the illustrations you don't get the illustrations i understand you don't get i remember i saw i read the kurt cobain diary book yeah that was horrible yeah no i don't god I would never.

Speaker 2 I mean, we're going to do a revisit on Kurt Cobain in the future, but I would never, I don't get why they publish like the personal journals. Oh, pure just of

Speaker 2 it feels so fucking gross. Did you not like Montage of Heck? I didn't, I didn't want to watch it because it just felt too gross.

Speaker 2 Yes. You did? Yeah.
No, I don't even care for Nirvana. There was a better dialogue.
Did you care for Nirvana? Too loud.

Speaker 2 Let's not do this here, Marcus. Let's just not do this here.

Speaker 2 Hey, not right now. He's allowed whatever he's doing.
No, no, no. I like the unplugged album.
It's that today. Ed the music buddy.
I greatly respect Ed's taste. I respect his opinions about music.

Speaker 2 I'm never going to argue with him and tell him he's wrong. It's just a little surprising.
Yeah, no, I like them. I like to watch him live when he's in the dress.
Do you like Alice and Chains?

Speaker 2 They're much better. I like them a lot more than I like Nirvana.

Speaker 2 That's an opinion that takes true maturity.

Speaker 2 I mean, the first three albums. After that, it's not very good.

Speaker 2 They're unplugged, I like more than Nirvana's Unplugged. He's got a beautiful voice.
And even though he was barely functional during that unplugged.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I would say, but what you probably like then is that

Speaker 2 I would say that Nirvana's too intense for you. We finally finally hit 1999.
Yeah, yeah. I think that it's important for you guys to know as listeners.

Speaker 2 We've just taken you back to what it was like to be there in 1999. Yeah, exactly.
I'm more sound garden than Mud Honey. Oh, okay.
Well, I'm also more Soundgarden than Mud Honey. Good for you.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 2 Well, in most of the entries, the individual rambles about feeling like they did not belong in this world or lived in a different dimension. Oh, yeah, yeah, sure.

Speaker 2 Oftentimes, they would quote song lyrics. One message on the website offered a dark insight into its potential purpose.

Speaker 2 The purpose of this site is for me to give insight into the thoughts I rarely, if ever, share with others, while remaining somewhat anonymous.

Speaker 2 One of the messages on its homepage read: Everything from journal entries to my personal entries. I want to leave a record of myself before I well.
well, dot, dot, dot.

Speaker 2 I hate before I well. I hate that so much.
I hate trauma queens.

Speaker 2 It's like, just if you're going to kill me, do it. Yeah.
Go make a Facebook post. Yeah.
Just shoot me in that.

Speaker 2 If you're going to, if that's all we got to do, I don't need to hear all your fucking, your vamping. Yeah.
Come on. Just get it over with.
Yeah. Now, I wonder what the song nerds were.

Speaker 2 I got to look this up. I'm made

Speaker 2 by

Speaker 2 my shit.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 Coal chamber. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Milo.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Miloco.
Dude, I fucking love Cole Chamber back in the day. Yeah.
You know, Cole Chamber broke up in Lubbock? Really? On stage? Whoa.

Speaker 2 You would have loved this lady. Yeah, I didn't.
I fucking couldn't make the show. I was a big Cole Chamber fan back then, you know, really loved New Metal.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I couldn't make it to the show that night. And my buddy Nixon, like, fucking talked to me the next day.
He's like, bro, you should have gone to the fucking show. They fucking broke up on stage.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 bro.

Speaker 2 I remember the bass player was very attractive. Very much.
This is a fucking elder millennial zone. I don't give a fuck about you, super fucking ass.
This is the fucking real shit.

Speaker 2 Straight from the dome of a bunch of dudes that need blood thinners. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 You don't know that fucking shit was like, dude. Big truck.

Speaker 2 Big truck. Big truck.
Yeah. It's like written by a four-year-old.

Speaker 2 This woman thought that it was so. This was her catcher in the ride.

Speaker 2 Big chuck.

Speaker 2 Big chuck. That's the whole song.
It was great. It is.
It's really fun. And that the guy cover was really fun too.
It's like the guy in the ice cream truck. Oh, I loved it.
Really fun. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Know what really turned me on? I saw them on the second stage at OzFest. Yeah.

Speaker 2 It was a very dangerous mosh pit. Probably the most dangerous I ever saw.
There was a skinhead with a knife between his fingers and he was slicing people up.

Speaker 2 And then some big-ass dude just came by and clocked him and knocked him unconscious. It was wild.

Speaker 2 Jackie and I went to go see Billy Joel at MSG.

Speaker 2 I also loved it. You remember when we went to see Bob Seeker and we all sat? Oh my God.
That was my favorite. That was amazing.
Nah, man, I got to. There were some fucking great mosh pits.

Speaker 2 Like Slipknot was an incredible mosh pit. We have lost the plot here.
You got to get back. These guys loved cold chambers.

Speaker 2 Well, they're fucking dead now.

Speaker 2 They're all dead. I would say they died right as Slipknot's first album was coming out.
They would have loved Iwitz. I think it was 99 with Slipknot, maybe 2000.
They would have loved Iowa.

Speaker 2 They would have loved it.

Speaker 2 Well, 19 school districts, including Jefferson County, where Columbine is located, closed while police searched for the woman. She was found dead near the base of Mount Evans on April 17th, 2019.

Speaker 2 That was three days before the anniversary of Columbine of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Speaker 2 Her body was found at the rest house trail near the Echo Lake Lodge in Idaho Springs, Colorado, approximately an hour away from Littleton, where Colin Bine is located.

Speaker 2 It's actually really sad in a way that she committed suicide, but also I'm glad she did that instead of killing other people. Yeah.
Did she kill herself with a shotgun?

Speaker 2 Uh, yeah, damn, yeah, yeah, dude. Fuck same thing with you.
Did you research about how Cagney Lynn Carter, the porn actress, also she did the same thing full-on? Yeah, shotgun in the mouth. Not good.

Speaker 2 Oh, geez. Little bummer.
Cadney Lynn Carter. Yeah, I was a fan.
Kurt Cobain. Here we go.
Full circle. I was a fan.
I liked her work. She seemed like a nice lady.

Speaker 2 See you here. She just seems like it was sad.
It seems like porn is a horrible. It's like porn in wrestling.
That's a lot of business. Yeah, it does bad things to people's brains.

Speaker 2 She looks like Casey Anthony. That's why I liked her.
Not necessarily. No, she's blonde.
She looks a lot like Casey Anthony. When I worked at the Village Poor House.

Speaker 2 I don't think she looks like Casey Anthony.

Speaker 2 Take another look.

Speaker 2 I don't think she looks like Casey Anthony. Well, that's with her with brown hair.
I had a,

Speaker 2 when I worked at the the village poorhouse at a bartender that looked exactly like Casey Anthony, when she was going out drinking all the time, and the picture started showing up, and then I was like, oh, my God, Meredith, what are you doing in

Speaker 2 Florida? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then she was like, oh, it was me.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 Poorhouse, one day we're talking about 420. And I'm like, oh, you know, like the thing about 420 is, you know, in Columbine, all the kids who smoke weed, they all survived because they skipped school.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And then one of the bartenders ran to the bathroom crying.
I was like, what happened? They're like, she was at Columbine. Her friends died.
Yeah, cool. Thank you.

Speaker 2 I was like,

Speaker 2 I'm sorry, Carring.

Speaker 2 I'm like this.

Speaker 2 I don't know what else to do about it. I wish I was different.

Speaker 2 You know how many times I've said that exact yelling statement? I wish I wasn't this man sometimes, too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, me too. Actually, it was like three days ago that I was like,

Speaker 2 God, I wish I wasn't like this.

Speaker 2 I'm like talking to my wife

Speaker 2 on the couch. I'm just like, I wish I wasn't like this.
Yeah. I wish this wasn't my brain.
I wish I wasn't like this. I wish I was something else.
But you know what?

Speaker 2 That's what's putting food on the table, brother. It is.
Right? That fucking dark little bean of yours. All the torment you put yourself through every single day, even in your dreams.

Speaker 2 You are a podcaster. And yeah, that might not sound like much of a title to a lot of people.

Speaker 2 It really doesn't, especially the HVAC guy that asked me today what I did for a living, and I told him, and he didn't know what it was. But you know what? For people that do know, they like that.

Speaker 2 By the way, I got a good HVAC guy for you. Oh, yeah, good.
Great. Yeah.
No, I need a guy who knows how to suck.

Speaker 2 You can't trust those guys.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's anti-HVAC, but I H-VAC people. I know they're very helpful, but you know,

Speaker 2 I've caught him napping before. They do whatever they want.

Speaker 2 Well, the first one that I got, we'll talk about it after the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'll tell you all my HVAC adventures and why I like this. This new guy does.

Speaker 2 This entire episode needs to be called like an elder millennials event. You know what I mean? Like us just discussing things, time period of time.
What is really the update to Columbine?

Speaker 2 I made a bad joke and made a bartender upset. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 It's not like

Speaker 2 we looked back on Columbine and now we're like, actually, it's pretty funny. You know what I mean? Like,

Speaker 2 it was bad.

Speaker 2 It was more so like understanding that Dave Cullen's book, to wrap it all up, Dave Cullen's book was not the be-all end-all source. No.
We used it at the time because we didn't really understand.

Speaker 2 But more now that we have other views in, I still don't think it's that much different.

Speaker 2 It's not, but I do want to acknowledge that, like, yes, like, I, we understand that Dave Cullen's book had a firm perspective, and we just kind of went with the perspective.

Speaker 2 We're like, nothing is as simple as anything wants, anybody wants it to be. Everybody wants a simple explanation.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But Dave Cullen's work on like the cover-up of the police, you know, that them covering up all the things they missed. That was great.

Speaker 2 Like, how all the myths of Colin Bine were created, all of that was like, that's solid fucking information, like the girl who said yes, like how that myth was created, and how, like, the pieces of shit who perpetrated that myth, you know, like made the girl who actually said yes, made her feel like shit, and told her she was a liar, and all that.

Speaker 2 Like, Colin did a lot of really great work in that book. Yes, it's just that he had a story that he wanted to tell, and he skewed the narrative of like Dylan Klebold, who he was as a person.

Speaker 2 He skewed it towards that narrative, and that's his prerogative. You know, that's fucking nonfiction writers do that all the time.

Speaker 2 And, you know, I guess decide for yourself whether that negates everything that he wrote. I don't believe it does.
I believe that he made a bad narrative decision as a writer, but that's it.

Speaker 2 I, you know, it's important that I, when we do our research on last podcast and left, like, we really do consider many

Speaker 2 views on the subject.

Speaker 2 We try to get like a stereo version as much as we can. Yeah.
But it's also, we are using sources. And so every source, no matter what you do, you're not going to escape bias.
It's not going to happen.

Speaker 2 But if knowing now, as older people who've been doing this longer, like the way to do it is to put three conflating and literally conflicting views together and see where they line up.

Speaker 2 And then also, what do you know about humanity? Which is why it's important for me. That's why, you know, when I get my diamonds delivered, I go out to the guy to the car.

Speaker 2 I don't want him to have to walk all the way through the security gates and the moat when he gets to my house.

Speaker 2 I dodge all the dogs. Yeah, I go out to him because, like, I want him to see the guy who's getting the Rolex jockstrap.

Speaker 2 I want him to see that guy. Can I ask a hypothetical before we go? Sure.
Columbine doesn't happen.

Speaker 2 Do all these other spree shootings happen still? Yes. You think so? Absolutely.

Speaker 2 Why is America headed that way? The internet. The internet.
The internet. It's the internet is fucking with us in ways that we will not understand for another 50 years.

Speaker 2 And no proper mental health infrastructure. There's nowhere for, there's no, like, America is just gotten a little crazy.

Speaker 2 And we got no place to go if you are a dangerous person, but you have yet to commit a crime, but you know, you're kind of on a way to do it.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, like, there's no way to sort of like track and flag when someone's been talking about this behavior, even though there's probably many ways we could do it.

Speaker 2 They do, you know, like we just saw it happen with that Ethan Crumbly with the two parents that essentially they both were the first time ever you had a mom that got convicted of manslaughter for like helping the kid basically buying the the gun for the kid that went and shot up a bunch of people.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like I, it's we're just in a weird place.

Speaker 2 The reason why we blame the internet is just because the human brain just seems like it's not supposed to handle this many points of view at once, and it drives people crazy.

Speaker 2 There's also no media literacy, nobody knows how to fucking read a newspaper or understand that the internet, your algorithm, is only built to your specifications.

Speaker 2 So they think that the computer is talking directly to them and it's saying the truth. But I, you know, Adam Lanza, he wasn't on the fucking internet a whole bunch.

Speaker 2 Like, there's not, some of these guys are definitely outliers, of course. But I think it's, it's, I don't know if we're going to understand the mass shooter phenomenon for a long time.

Speaker 2 It has to kind of stop for a while. You know what I mean? Like, in order for us to look back on it.
Yeah. It has to kind of, we need to break.
Yeah. And then we can look back on all the data.

Speaker 2 Well, it's the, it's the guy. I've been reading this fucking incredible book by um David Mitchell.
He was the dude, he was Mark Corgan in Peep Show. Okay.

Speaker 2 He recently wrote wrote a history book about like the history of British rulers. It's fucking incredible.
It's so good.

Speaker 2 But he talked about like the, you know, Dan Carlin talks about the great men theory of history.

Speaker 2 The other side of that that kind of refutes the great men theory of history is the trend theory of history, is that these things happen no matter what.

Speaker 2 That's just, you know, if it wasn't William the Conqueror in 1066, it would have been somebody else. Yeah, Randy.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Who united England. It might have happened a couple of years before or a couple years after,

Speaker 2 but eventually, like, just the trends come. And

Speaker 2 that's just how history works. Like, it's just waves that we can't, we can't, things just fucking happen.
Like, things just happen, and we can't do anything about it.

Speaker 2 And that's just the way history is. And we just, it's like more of a chaos theory type of way of looking at it than it is like a prime mover way of looking at it.
So who knows?

Speaker 2 It's probably a mixture of the fucking. It's probably a mixture of both.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And like going back to what you're saying about the internet and social media having such a big influence on it, one of my best friends in the world, he's a teacher down in a school very close to Parkland, next town over.

Speaker 2 And when all that shit went down, it's the next day he's talking to his students and they're just, you know, you know, the curriculum goes out the window.

Speaker 2 And he's just like, you know, why do you think, you know, as students, as peers, like, why do you think stuff like this keeps happening? And every kid.

Speaker 2 in the class said it's because of social media it's because of the internet and then he's like do you think we should get rid of it and every kid said no

Speaker 2 yeah because they don't know how to get out of it they're addicted to it they're literally addicted to it yeah um but hopefully we're getting there and then you know even though the you know the sun is conscious we know for a fact that the sun can think right i've been seeing this around so many places just send the sun flare let's just do it it might hurt the podcast for a while but guess what we're gonna take the podcast on the road and do it with megaphones live everywhere across this country so guess what it might help it might be fun All right.

Speaker 2 Goodbye, everybody. Thank you for listening to the last update on the left.
We'll see y'all next week. Hell, Satan.
See you on all of the things.

Speaker 2 TikTok LP on the left after we've just sucked about that. Yeah, sure.
Go on social media. Go patreon.com/slash last podcast on the left to see the main hub show on in the video version.

Speaker 2 You can see your bodies flapping around. And we are also doing a live show that is not just a podcast.
Go to lastpodcastontheleft.com.

Speaker 2 We're going to various North American cities, including Denver, and various Australian cities. Go check out the JK Ultra tour.
It's going to be good. Yeah.
Or better be at least. Bye, y'all.

Speaker 2 Hey, hell, Satan. Okay.
Bye. Hail, Alice and Shane.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't care for them.

Speaker 2 Thank you for enjoying the last update on the left.

Speaker 2 You can find other shows that you'll enjoy from the last podcast network on lastpodcastontheleft.com. See you there.

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