Episode 367 - The Order: Part 2

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Hello and welcome to the Lion Said by Donkeys podcast.

The year is 1974.

I have spent the past seven years since we last left you making a mint and printing, having opened several other branches in the past four years of my business and shifting my business to the border of Idaho and Washington.

My success, you ask, is down to my shrewd accounting, lax tax laws, and my no questions asked policy.

You want it printed?

For the money, you can have what you want.

This all changed one day when a tall, bronze-skinned man with a shaved head and a bad attitude walked into my shop.

Hey man, can you print me a thousand copies of this?

He asked.

I reply yes, and he hands me over a pamphlet with a large swastika on the front and a picture of Idaho Senator Frank Church with a knife through his head.

Well, sir, you see, I have a small political gathering nearby, and I am simply practicing my freedom of speech and assembly.

And in order to do so, I need to print out all of these pamphlets.

And I know 1,000 is a lot, but I'm willing to pay you in crisp $100 bills that are only slightly stained.

with the ink from the local bank.

I am uncomfortable, but he pays in cash.

And when Joe hands over the cash, he glares balefully at the greasy teens I have running the machines.

He thinks to himself, what has become of men?

When I was his age, I was in the jungles of NAM.

Now this guy's biggest decision is which of the local MILF's photo negatives he's going to jerk off to once the shop closes.

Joe turns to me and says, I'll be back at 5 p.m.

Make sure it's done.

It's at this time in Phoenix, Arizona, that Nate is finalizing the paperwork to sell his used car dealership.

There's simply not a big enough market for well-worn, slightly damaged trucks with a zero return or repair policy anymore, he says to himself.

Christ, man, I mean, when I got into this business, it wasn't too bad.

But, you know, like, I guess there's some shit happened across the border with Fort Wachuca.

They're like making these soldiers take leave policies and they can't go more than 100 miles away from the base.

And now it's just like, that was my prime market, man.

That was my bread and butter.

These kids come down here and be like, yeah, hell yeah.

I want to buy a truck.

I got my first paycheck.

And I'm like, yep, there's nothing wrong with this truck.

I guarantee you.

And, you know, by the time they get back to Wachuca, like they're either happy or they forgot my name or it broke down, they died in the desert, and I don't give a fuck.

So quite frankly, it's like, it's just,

honestly, part of me wants to say my problem is just the Mexicans, but, you know, it probably isn't the Mexicans in the first place because I've seen these soldiers go across the border.

It's not the dumb shit they do.

It's like you have exactly one shot of tequila and you eat the worm and then you decide that somehow you got superpowers, you can fight every Mexican.

I mean, like, quite frankly, when you think about cultural differences, these motherfuckers, if aliens came down from Earth and had exactly one beer and tried to fight my mom, I'd probably whoop their ass too.

So you know what?

Like, Like, I just need to get out of this fucking place.

I'm going to move to someplace normal.

Hopefully not as many Nazis out in the woods.

I'm thinking Minnesota.

Heard nothing good things about it.

Excuse me, sir.

I'm looking for a slightly used Dodge F-wood 50.

That's a Ford.

Ford F-wood 50 with an interest rate slightly above 20%.

That might be one of them aliens again, quite frankly.

But you know what?

Some people really, really, really just, they believe Dodge is the best truck out there.

When deep down, I know it stands for dick on dick gay

Can we please get this business sold so I can get the fuck out of here?

I want to go to Minnesota.

It's paradise on earth.

Signing the last of his papers, he looks across his desk at a calendar his friend bought him of some forests in the Pacific Northwest.

Maybe things will be better up north, he says to himself.

Fellas, welcome to The Order part two.

How are we doing?

Joe, how do you, how do you feel about being a Nazi at night?

How do you feel about being an unscrupulous businessman?

I just have to say, I'm really impressed with what did you say Dodge stood for?

Just straight out of the pocket, dick on dick gauged.

Just had that prepared.

That's a whole thing.

November brought this up on a Trash Future episode about like forum posts between American truck brand owners, like basically calling each other gay.

There's this whole like Legion, like Library of Alexandria of memes about like Ford owners are gay or like Chevy owners are gay or Dodge owners are gay and all the ways in which like they call each other like like oh oh yeah yeah Ford truck is great for gay men and the one like they're constantly doing this it doesn't make any sense I can't speak for the sexual neither can I but they're like oh yeah GMC gay men's choice dodge dick on dick gay entertainment I can't speak for the sexual orientation of Ford owners but as my father was a Ford owner I can confirm they do a lot of heroin yeah I mean

we got on a roof on this episode and started trying to come up with different acronyms for implying the owners of different brands were gay

Ford became a fan of rigid dicks, and Toyota became tearing open your oiled twink asshole.

It was like that meme of, you know, city girls versus country girls, and the country girls one is on like an ATV and saying, like, get on, bitch, I'm on heroin.

Slide over, I'm on heroin.

Yeah, I was going to say, too, it's funny, though, because I forgot about the connection with Washington State.

So I was actually born in Washington State.

I was born in Fort Lewis, Pierce County,

but I hadn't made the association between Washington State Nazis.

Obviously, talking about the Idaho border.

Yes, Eastern Washington, 100%.

Eastern Washington and Eastern Oregon, for that matter, for people who don't know, most people only are aware of those states too, like Portland and Seattle.

But the second you cross into the east, or in the case of Washington, go slightly southwest, you run into a forest of Nazis you were not aware existed.

Yeah, so Spokane and then to Boise, Curtaline, stuff like that.

Like, it's so oh my, like it's like hardcore Nazi and also like, well, not everyone, but that is there.

That presence is there.

And like, really hardline separatist, Christian dominionists.

Yeah, that's where there was a Congress or a state representative in Washington, in eastern Washington, uh, who was like straight up plotting to overthrow the government and was involved with adopting a strange amount of Ukrainian children.

Um, that

this is like before the war.

Uh, like he had like a, this quote-unquote army of God that like a state investigation found him to be treasonous, but he just kept his seat.

He was a

reserve officer in the U.S.

Army Reserves, I believe, not even the Washington National Guard.

And he had something where like he wanted to carry a sword.

Like basically he was telling his wife that like, you have to walk on my left or whatever because I outrank you or whatever.

Like, I can't remember if it's walk on the right or walk on the right.

I used to know this in the Army, but I don't fucking care anymore.

But like, the guy was insane.

But yeah, that's, you know, average elected representative in eastern Washington/slash Idaho.

Um, so yeah, yeah, we're gonna talk about that today.

So, uh, I hear we're gonna have some fun.

Oh, yeah, we are gonna talk about uh armies of God, uh, weird guys in the Pacific Northwest.

But when we last left you, Robert Matthews, anti-communist fanatic and Mormon, adult Mormon convert, had just picked up his first case with the law after spending his teens being radicalized by the newspaper and local cranks.

All of his political rhetoric and anti-tax activism had finally reached a head after conducting the most patriotic of American pursuits, lying on his tax returns.

The year is 1974, and Matthews has just turned 21 and is stuck with a six-month probation for saying that he has 10 dependents and is unmarried, and he's looking for a new life after his run-in with the law, somewhere where real men can be free and the tyranny of the government cannot be found.

Dear tax man, you don't understand.

I'm just slinging mad dick everywhere I go

surely you understand the

uncontrollable urge that women have when they encounter me

oh nate nate save it that it comes up

so a note on matthews he was obsessed with his family's scottish ancestry and often dreamed of the Scottish highlands, rolling green hills, glossy fails, undisturbed nature for men to enjoy and to conquer and to make their own.

He wanted to go on a vision quest to discover his true identity.

He had to consume this strange drink brewed by monks in England, but famous in Scotland for some reason.

We'll never talk about it again.

I've never had it before.

What could you possibly be talking about?

I love that he's doing like birthright for annoying Americans in Scotland now.

I gotta be real with you, man.

Birthright, like, like as much as, Tom, I know you have suffered many a time from fucking Irish Americans and Megalists.

And I am an American Armenian immigrant to Armenia, so I fall into this.

But I want to say this because I have never been one of these people.

I'm like, obviously, there's things about British culture that interest me.

And then I lived in Britain and I realized there are also a lot of negatives.

And I'm glad my mom left.

But I will say this much.

People who are really into being like, I'm English-American or I'm Scottish are even more annoying.

There's just fewer of them, but the ones who get become weebs for Scotland or Weebs for England are so much worse.

Because all they have is like.

Like, think about how little actual English people have to cling to and like Blitz, Churchill, bullshit.

Imagine that, but you're American.

You've got even less.

You think that your cultural identity is somehow also embodied in Gregg's.

Like, they got nothing.

I'm a big fan of Greggs and the band The The.

Oh, God.

Okay.

I'm going to make this really short, but I really hate the idea that there's a band called The The.

Fucking ridiculous.

Oh, they're really fucking going.

I know I'm not the music guy in this podcast, but get a better fucking band name.

This is ridiculous.

Johnny Maher from The Smiths was in it at one stage.

Fuck anyway.

There's a band called Talk Talk that's really good.

There's a band called Was Not Was that's okay.

They're not bad.

Get out of here with this cutesy bullshit.

I hate even cutesy.

I fucking hate Cutesy.

There's a band called Someone Still Loves You, Boris Yeltsin.

Get the fuck out of here.

And there's a band called Crywank.

Finally, something I'm into.

So there was only one place Matthews knew that would fit the bill for his new dream of creating the new white American bastion.

Now, I'm going to ask you guys, if you were a nascent white supremacist secessionist and anti-communist in the 1970s, where would you move?

Idaho.

Yeah.

If you asked me the same question like in 2025, I would also say Idaho, though, to be honest.

I would say Washington state, though, just because my parents lived in Washington in the 70s and the stories they told me were that back then, Washington was way more like Alaska is now.

And also, like, it hadn't yet become cool.

It was sort of like outdoorsy people, hippies, psychos, right-wing freaks, and then like people getting priced out out of California.

That hadn't really taken off yet.

There's also a sleeper choice here, and that is the general thumb area of Michigan, well known for being full of psychos.

Yeah, that is true.

I would say, in terms of the real, because when you think about like Mormons you grew up with versus Mormons in like Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, like it always gets weirder and more intense in the West.

And I know that obviously like the answer to the question here is going to be Washington State, but like my parents moved to Washington in like 77.

And it, yeah, it was, it's, it was weirder, way fucking weirder back then.

I'm going to put one correction.

In 2025, if you were a white supremacist, secessionist, and like an anti-communist, you moved to Austin, Texas, not to Idaho.

That's only if you're a stand-up comedian.

Trying to think of places that are objectively fascist in America.

And it's like, well, I mean, it's just, it's so hard.

I mean, like, if you're going for the state, Florida.

If you're going for a city,

Austin.

Again, Austin is only if you're a stand-up comedian and or Joe Rogan, a Jason podcaster.

If you're a die-in-the-wool, normal, like down-home American white nationalist, like white Christian nationalist, the so-called, like, was it the Bastion or whatever that Alex Jones and the other people are talking about?

You go to Idaho.

Colorado, also, if you're really Christian.

And if you're just rich, but you believe all this shit, you go to San Diego, California, the most right-wing city in America.

I swear to God.

But guys,

I will touch on something in a second that will prove that Robert Matthews is the Mormon Ben Shapiro.

But Washington is correct.

And after Matthews' probation, he was so disgusted with the changes he was seeing in Phoenix, Arizona, as the region began to offer more economic opportunities.

This brought materialistic people into town who, in Matthew's words, and this is the Mormon Ben Shapiro, the greatest conflict after coming home from mundane jobs was whether to go out for fast food or stay at home to watch the latest brainless sitcom on television.

Imagine the Sunbelt when All in the Family was the most popular show on television.

You're like, this is too woke.

This has fallen.

God has forsaken this land.

Have you been to Phoenix, Arizona?

I know, Tom, you probably haven't.

Joe, have you?

Because I have.

I've tried my best not to go to Arizona in general.

It's too hot.

I don't have anything against Arizona other than it is a monument to man's hubris, but it's too fucking hot for me.

I'm not going there.

The scene in Super Bed where the really scary tweaker guys try to make, they think that they've found their friend and it's the wrong guy, and they make him sing.

And then they're like, You guys want to do some cocaine while they're crying?

Like, that's so recognizable as a guy from Arizona.

I'm just saying.

And the whole thing was they're like, Hey, yeah, we used to hang out and flag staff.

Like, not quite Mickey Mouse voice.

Like, yeah, that's so.

I know enough about Arizona to be like, Jesus Christ, if Arizona in the 70s is too consumerist and fallen, I mean, consumerist fine, but like culturally fallen, then yeah, sorry, this man's insane.

He was yearning for the era of joe arpaio but it hadn't happened yet it hadn't happened yet yeah exactly yeah yeah

yeah feminism hadn't reached its apex yet and hadn't had to create joe arpaio you know what i mean like but matthews was not only disappointed in the new transplants but he was also disappointed in his friends too none of them came to his trial and when he tried to gather funds to get his truck out of the police impound none of them helped

right but i'm gonna say this and i realize there's no point in pointing out hypocrisy in these people but but look, I'm just going to just

love with you.

Just dream with me here for a second, okay?

Your last name is Matthews.

You are going to die of skin cancer if you don't get killed sooner than that in Arizona.

Who in the fuck are you talking about when you say transplants?

I'm just saying.

I'm just saying, do you look indigenous to fucking Arizona, brother?

Like,

let's just be real here.

Well, actually, Nate, something that's very important for part three is that Matthews doesn't look exactly like alabaster white, but we will come back to that.

But also, it's like you're a weeb for Scotland.

Do you think that the Scots are the lost tribe of Israel and that some of them just got on a boat and crossed the entire Atlantic and went to Arizona?

You didn't know that Glasgow's the lost kingdom of Judah.

We talked about this last week.

There's a very good chance you think Scottish people are a tribe of Israel.

But it was at this point that Robbie set his sights on the north and his Sons of Liberty companion, Don Clark, helped him reorganize and recruit for the next phase of the sons of liberty.

Robbie gave him a list of items which each recruit must have quote a nine millimeter pistol, a 0.308 assault rifle and a 12 gauge shotgun.

Then Clark went to each recruit's apartment and selected items that they should pawn in order to buy those guns.

Televisions, stereos and other mass culture distractions would have to go.

When Clark brought Matthews the new recruits, they would sit across the table in front of Matthews with this awesome awesome-looking electronic box that Matthews had procured called an e-meter.

What?

How did he stumble upon Scientology?

We'll get there.

It was supposed to determine whether a man was lying or not, but everyone passed it, including three FBI informants sent into the group.

The FBI thought Matthews might have gotten into Scientology because if you remember from the previous episode, he did a sojourn to California shortly, and they thought maybe he ran into Scientology.

And this is the 70s.

Scientology is really small at the time.

I mean, I think, is this around the same time that L.

Rod Hubbard was definitely living in a boat somewhere to escape tax charges?

Okay.

I'm just, I don't, I've never seen the TV series, but in the book, The Man in the High Castle, there's the whole thing about like objects value being assessed in its historicity.

Like if a pen was in the room when like the Vonsea agreement was signed or something like that, like that gives it, imbues it with historicity.

And I'm just imagining like the e-meter being used to determine what they should pawn and, like, you know, what actually the actual value is as opposed to the assessed dollar value.

And it's like they measure it against the most valuable object they can possibly imagine, which is a signed copy of LA Woman by the doors.

Fuck up.

It was this machine that would be a bust.

And it would have been more useful if Matthews had used a magic eight ball to test the fidelity of his new recruits.

And his faith and trust in this bit of tech and his faith and trust in general would be his own downfall.

In spring, Matthews went up to Washington to check out some locations to relocate the new versions of Sons of Liberty to.

He arrived in Medelline Falls, a small town of less than 300 people, literally just a hair short of the Canadian border.

Rolling green and fresh air was all Matthews needed to see and he was immediately in love with the place.

He later described a feeling of giddy joy at the prospect of his own version of the Scottish Highlands.

And it would be here that he would stake his claim on America.

I fucking hate this guy.

We got this guy getting a group of heavily armed people together, going around with this fucking Scientology tool to get them to throw out their radios and modern technology and communications and everything.

So we got like white nationalist Khabar Scientologist Khabare Rouge in Washington.

Joe, Joe, Joe,

he gets so much more annoying and so so much more worse.

But just wait.

Just wait.

We have a worse version of Pol Pot.

Like, this one's even more of a fucking nerd.

It was in Mendelline Falls where he would get a job at a local mine.

He informed his family that, you know, I found this new land that I can stake my claim on.

At first, his parents were kind of a little bit like, is this another one of his dreams?

But in his letters, he had a new kind of calm and peace, and there was no political rhetoric in them.

So they were like, okay, maybe this is a good start, a good new start and a new environment.

It'll be good for him.

But there was one problem with this.

He forgot to tell Don Clark about this, the guy who was running the Sons of Liberty with him.

And Don was soon trying to come to grips with a schism within the Sons of Liberty between the Mormons and the non-Mormons.

And Clark decided to jump ship to...

a new Minutemen style group, but loads of the informants they admitted to Sons of Liberty also joined this group.

And pretty soon, the federal government had issued loads of subpoenas for his arrest because they had planned to kill an FBI agent.

That'll do it.

Yeah, that'll do it.

I love to have a weird Mormon schism in my white nationalist militia.

Everybody's heard of like the John Brown Gun Club.

I'm now instituting the Joseph Smith Gun Club.

But Don was fearful that he would be soon caught by the federal government, and he set out for Menelline Falls after a survivalist friend of his tipped him off to where Matthew was holed up.

Robbie got Don a brief job at the Bunker Hill mine, but made plans for his quick exit.

That was okay with Don.

So he sold his car to Robbie and used the money the next month to get a fake passport in Seattle.

Man, shit was so much cooler back then.

You just, oh, I'm going to sell my car and go buy a fake passport.

down to like Queen Anne, Seattle.

I don't know in the 70s, but I know that in the 60s for sure, like a lot of things, such as driver's licenses, didn't have photos on them.

Like photo ID could just be paper ID.

It didn't have to be photo ID.

And there was no like security,

there was no like biometrics or anything like that in passports.

No, no, no, no, no.

Exactly.

It just had to be convincing enough to get you through border security and stuff like that.

Now you just have to be really rich and buy your way into being a Cypriot citizen.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But

I have a question for you.

Where do you think Don Clark was heading to?

With a passport?

A white nationalist American neo-Nazi with a fake passport.

Where do you think he Argentina?

South Africa.

Well, he soon went to Rhodesia.

Fuck!

Where he joined a white mercenary group fighting the black nationalists, and it took British intelligence four years to find him.

God damn it.

I forgot Rhodesia existed.

Yeah, like briefly existed.

Yeah, thought Woodward lost it.

Way to go, Master Race, you fucking idiots.

Medelline Falls is pretty isolated.

Like, it's

about 100-ish, maybe even a little more because of the terrain miles north of Spokane and not very far from Curtaline,

Idaho.

But, like, that area in, you know, like near the Canadian border.

Often called America's Rhodesia.

Yeah.

So

Clark is off in Rhodesia.

The FBI are looking for him.

They soon found Matthews, too, because they wanted to find Clark because of the whole wanting and plotting to murder a federal agent thing.

Yeah, that would bring you to their attention real good.

Why didn't the other guy go to Rhodesia?

Like, this seems like an easy out for white nationalists at the time, other than the whole conscription part.

Joe, you will understand very soon.

Wow.

But the FBI visited Bunker Hill Mine where Matthews was working.

Luckily, they spoke to Robbie's foreman and not the manager because the foreman hated the the government just as much as Robbie and lied to them.

Average Eastern Washingtonian mind worker.

But around the same time that all this was happening, our old buddy, Admirable Dick Cheese, Richard Gernd Butler

had relocated to Curtaline Lay.

Richard Gernd Butler, who proudly categorized himself as a racist, quote, one who loves his race,

thought of himself as not anti-black or anti-Jewish, but as a white nationalist.

Each race should have its own homeland, and the Pacific Northwest with its strong Nordic ambience was his.

This is the British Israelism of Christian identity coming through.

I'm not racist.

I just want a land where solely the people who I like and look like can live.

It's worth bearing in mind that the Idaho Panhandle and eastern Washington and western Montana had barely 1.1 million residents.

Fewer than 3% were Hispanic, fewer than 2% were Native Americans, and barely below 1%

were African-American, and even fewer were Jewish.

Yeah, there's a very good reason why there was a very low African-American population in the Pacific Northwest, and that is because they were not allowed to move there until shockingly recently.

They're always saying like, oh, we didn't have slavery in the Pacific Northwest.

Like, that is technically correct.

However, you also had local law that forbade black people from moving there and owning property until shockingly recently.

Yeah, and also I think that one thing is post-integration of the U.S.

military, that often places where there are military installations brought non-white people in larger numbers.

And oftentimes people stay if there's jobs or things, you know, reasons to stay there.

That is definitely the case of a place like Anchorage, Alaska.

It's definitely Seattle and then the aerospace industry as well.

But this area

is not particularly densely populated, as Tom just pointed out.

Like it's there's like there are far more people.

I mean, one of the reasons why the people in eastern Washington fucking are always losing their mind about Zog and or even milder versions of just like being, you know, the hating the government and shit is because like it's one one vote per voter per registered voter.

They'll never be able to win shit in Washington because there's more people in like three of the major suburbs of Seattle than there are in the entirety of that region.

Yeah, the population of Tacoma is larger than them.

Yes, they have to compete against 40 dudes with the worst tattoos you've ever seen on skateboards vaping at all times voting for a thing that they want versus the yeomanry and blood and soil nationalists of spokane who are also on heroin but in a more gt way

oh nate we we will get to that i'm on genteel heroin sir

now uh in Butler's own words, the cornerstone of any society is faith, and the practice of that faith requires a church.

Once a man believes his fight is for God and country, he becomes invincible.

It's impossible to limit what he can accomplish if he believes his quest is righteous and his death a martyrdom.

Okay, so he wants to create white nationalist al-Qaeda.

Yes, he's beating Osama bin Laden to the punch.

Credit where credit's due, I suppose.

You literally have quoted something that's in the script.

Oh no.

Oh no.

Hate when I do that.

Also, last time we talked about Dick Butler being being a Christian identity radical, but it's also important to point out that he was a virulent anti-Semite who grew up from hearing from his father denounce communism in the 1920s and 30s as being the red dragon of the apocalypse controlled by Jews.

Man, that has so many levels of racist.

Like you expect the whole red dragon thing to be something that someone is saying in the 70s about China.

He's like, no, no, I'm taking it back.

He's talking about Asiatic hordes.

He's talking about Judeo-Bolshevism.

Fuck it, they're dragons too.

Like, this guy has layers, all of them bad.

Like, this isn't even in the script, but like, Butler's father would tell him as a child about how the

white army being murdered by the Bolsheviks in Russia was the Bolsheviks were a Jewish-controlled army in order to take over the Romanov's empire and fortune and use that money then to control the world, we are on like some esoteric levels of anti-Semitism.

All right.

All right.

It's not good, but I could recognize the lore building.

You know, the world building is solid.

Yeah, I was going to say, but enough about what Vladimir Dubokov actually believes.

But

there was also Butler's race fascination.

Now, I'm actually going to read this bit directly from Flynn and Gerhardt's book because when I read it, I nearly fell out of my chair.

So directly from the book.

In 1941, Fulty, which was an aerospace company that Butler was working for, sent him to Bangalore, India on a contract to overhaul P-25s, P-24s, and PBYs for the Royal Indian Air Force.

He was given the honorary rank of a captain, which entitled him to a valet.

The man he hired was named Jeroom, a Hindu who proudly wore the red dot in the center of his forehead.

At night, while he polished Richard Butler's boots or did work around his hut, the two men often discussed India's caste system.

Jerome described it as a way of maintaining racial purity.

He extolled the virtues taught in the ancient Sanskrit hymns of the Rig Veda.

According to Brahmanism, a precursor to Hinduism, blonde-haired, blue-eyed Indo-Europeans, the Aryans, conquered the Indus Valley 1500 years before Christ.

In time, they married with the dark-skinned people and the caste system was instituted to save the few pure-blooded Aryans that were left.

Sahib, I have Aryan blood, Jeroom said one warm evening in the hut.

And Butler has a really weird accent, so I'm not going to try and do it, but he said, I'm going to do old-timey southern racist.

Nah, Jerome, you can't say that.

You're as black as the ace of spades.

But Jerome insisted, yes, Sahib, I have Aryan blood.

I traced it back.

The reason I'm here, the reason I am where I am in the caste system, is because it didn't hold.

And that started Butler thinking, if this Indian servant knew more about his own race than Butler did about his, he better start studying.

And he was so impressed by Jerome's insight that the study of the history of the races would become a lifelong passion.

God damn you, Jerome.

All my homies hate Jerome.

Jerome, you bastard.

Jerome definitely would have paid for Twitter Blue in 2025.

India also lying to.

Damn it, you beat me to it.

Jeroom is crashing WhatsApp with good morning messages.

I love the idea that this guy is driven to become like an ethno-historian, parentheses, evil, because he ran into someone who was even more radicalized in the old world kind of way of radicalization.

Like we've all met a guy that's like this, that he's probably not outwardly racist.

He's not voting.

for like neo-nazi parties or whatever.

But if you ask him, he's like, no, here's my Charlie Kelly-esque diagram as to why I'm actually white.

My Pepe Sylvia race plan.

Yeah, exactly.

Like, we've all met this guy, but like, like, this southern guy is like, perfect.

I love this.

I need this for me.

This is like the mere image, like, inverse.

of how Varg Vickerness got radicalized when his dad took a geo drop in Iraq in the 70s.

Fuck, we've, we found Indian Varg.

I hate it so much.

Varg went to Iraq and was like, everyone who's not not white is a mud race.

This guy went to India and was like, actually, the Indians are beating us at racism.

We have to close the racism gap.

Yeah, we're going to import fucking Indian race scientists to close the racism gap against the Soviet Union.

That's why they canceled all the H-1Bs because the Indians were beating us at racism.

The eugenics cold war?

I mean, that's not that far off in the sense of like...

Vivek Ramaswamy, the guy who basically was like, actually like, white kids are lazy as fuck, and that's why Indian kids are smarter.

That is pretty much what he said, yeah.

That pissed off a lot of racists.

That sort of like ended his assent because it's like, you're not allowed to say that, actually.

You're racist, but you're not the right kind of racist.

Yeah, yeah.

So you want to play the game.

Like, unfortunately, the game is that, like, you can never actually say that because, like, the point isn't actual, like, you know, sort of survival of the fittest, or if you want to call it scare quotes, stupid interpretation of the term meritocracy.

The idea is white people always be on top, even if they're fucking stupid.

And it's like, so, cool, man.

Well, welcome to the game.

It's also important to mention that, like, at this stage, like in 1941, Butler is already like an ardent street fascist.

So, like, this kind of extra level to it is, you know, just a bit of butter on top of the bread.

And I do love it.

A couple years, we'd have like Nazis going to the same region doing weird esoteric cult shit looking for Aryan history as well.

Like, yep.

There's almost a time where they'd have a weird meet cute over the psycho weird racist valet.

So it was this sort of like bigotry that would become the bedrock of his church.

Now, I will say that the founding of the Church of Jesus Christ Christian, try and say that fast, it's really hard, is kind of fascinating, as is the establishment of a lot of these other fascist breakaway churches in America in the 1970s and 1980s.

We're talking, you're like Elohim Cities, the foundations of Waco, et cetera.

But we can save those for another time.

But you might be asking yourself a question, how does a very niche white nationalist church finance itself?

A podcast?

I mean, now, yes, and effectively back then.

Also, yes.

Butler was financing his community and church through mail order books and tapes, namely of recordings of his weekly sermons.

Fuck, he was a podcast.

He was a podcast.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He cooed Joe Rogan on that one.

Was he doing gun shows too?

I feel like he was a gun show guy.

I'll get there.

I'll get there.

Also, as well, books on Christian identity, as well as the usual shit you would see at any tourist trap, except for a unique flare with items such as flags from Aryan nations of the world.

You can guess which flags those are.

Belt buckles.

Was it just Rhodesian flags?

Rhodesia, South Africa, Belgium.

They like

to because of the Congo.

Oh, oh, oh.

Wow, that's a weird term.

Like, no, we actually hate Belgians.

We just like how racist they are.

Fucking Christ.

Shoulder Shoulder patches, coffee mugs, and t-shirts with the Aryan nations symbols or clan slash Nazi motifs.

But you want to know what one of their most popular items was?

Was it Adolf Hitler with googly eyes or something?

Close.

Oh, why am I close?

Bumper sticker.

One of the most popular items was a small ceramic clansman with his hand raised in a sacred salute that they sold for $5.

Like a Precious Moments figurine?

Yep.

We have KKK Precious Comments.

It's just a little ceramic clan man in the in the sheet.

What, like a fucking, like a stand-up figurine or like a like a fridge magnet?

No, stand-ups for figurine.

Like a little kind of like tchotchki.

So full-on like shit your fucking Mima would have in a glass case.

Yeah, yeah.

I like the idea.

It could be an action figure with a little switch on the back where the Hitler salute is like a kung fu chop.

That would be way cooler.

Curtaline is just Disneyland for racists at this point.

It still is, in case you're wondering.

Curtaline is still this way.

I had a friend that I met in Hong Kong, and she, when she was 11 or 12, her mom, because of medical stuff, had to move.

They had to leave Hong Kong's climate, and they had two choices: Vancouver, British Columbia, or Curtaline, Idaho.

And they went to Curtaline.

Now, imagine you're 12, you grew up in fucking Hong Kong, and you moved to Curtaline.

Now, Americans and people who aren't from the United States, Americans who don't know Idaho, that might not mean anything.

Jesus Christ.

That's like, the best way I could describe it is like,

it's like, hey, you grew up in New York City till the age of 12.

Now you're going to move to, I don't know, the fucking like Kaliningrad, Russia.

Or like, I try to think of something deeply, like, you're going to move to the Donetsk People's Republic.

I'm moving from Paris to like Vladivostok.

But this was all very good at financing Aryan nations, but their biggest asset was that Butler had established a national network of subscribers to his message, as well as linking through disparate fascist churches and racists all around the country with newsletters.

And it was this communication network and their production capacity with printing presses inside Aryan nations.

and creating mailing lists that would get their message out there.

And it's something we'll come back to soon.

But back to Robert Matthews.

Now, he had secured about 60 acres of land and he was working hard on it all the time.

The land which he and his father bought together so you can cancel Robert Matthews posthumously for getting help from his parents to buy a home.

That's the bad thing that he did.

But it was in the shadow of the hook nose peak and nestled in the woods.

It would come to be known as Matthews Farm.

Robbie became obsessed with the splendid nature that surrounded his new home, and he spent all of his free time hiking or working on his land to prepare it for his homestead where he hoped to raise a family.

Now, prior to his exit to the north, Robbie had promised his parents that his new start would be different and he would stay away from fringe politics and straighten his life out.

His parents were gobsmacked by the changes they saw in their son, first during their visits during the summers, and then when they eventually moved up there, they started to feel proud of their 22-year-old son living out on the last frontier of America.

Robbie would start at this point simply going by either Robert J or Bob.

So, but also call him Robbie.

But Robbie's new life was lonely, and he started to soon find himself longing for a wife.

You know, please supply a wife.

You can be a neo-Nazi, but unfortunately, you can't get a state-mandated wife because that's communism.

So he did what any normal 22-year-old would do, and he put an ad in an outdoor enthusiast magazine called Mother Earth News.

If that's not the most Pacific Northwest thing ever in the 70s, I knew it was going to be either because dating services were not really common outside of major cities back then, so it would have had to have been, but people put in personals ads all the time back then.

I kind of assumed he was going to do like the Rockwell thing and like snatch an Icelandic woman.

Also, funnily enough, someone pointed out after he released the last episode that Rockwell's former wife went on to marry the richest man in Iceland.

Yeah, he had like $50.

Everybody knows him.

There goes Thor, the richest man in our city of 16 people.

Racist Bjork marrying the richest man in Iceland.

Racist Bjork.

Her swad dress has a swastika band on it.

I feel bad saying that because Bjork is part indigenous, as far as I remember, in Iceland, but, you know.

This one's racist, Bjork.

She's the only Icelandic person you've ever heard of.

No, I'm sure you can find there's at least one problematic member of Seeker Rose, and and that's documented so you can it's racist john

but uh he used the personal columns in mother earth which was circulated around the country to search for a woman to be his bride his ad said looking for a mature intelligent woman 18 to 25 surprisingly uh to share my life and land in washington so Mature.

It's like I want an 18-year-old that's mature for her age.

Being a Nazi non-negotiable.

Well, at least he's not a libertarian.

We can say that.

Also, this is the only time that I will say anything in his defense.

He's 22.

So even

by the standard of half your age plus seven, 18 is on the bottom end, but still not doctrinally weird.

We're not going to get to white nationalist age gap discourse on this podcast.

If white nationalists took age gap discourse seriously, like it would be their undoing, because it tends to be their undoing legally anyway.

So like, but that being said, it's not that weird.

If he was 40, it would be fucking weirder, but he's 22.

So like, whatever.

He's also writing personal columns in like an outdoor newspaper in the 70s called Mother Earth News.

So, I mean, it's weird, but, you know, eco-fascist, vulcism.

But it was here that he would meet his future wife, Debbie.

Now, I will say the movie lets Debbie off really lightly because she was actually an ardent fascist by the end.

She had to have been, right?

Yeah.

The movie kind of paints her as like this kind of sympathetic character was like, no, she went on to date other neo-Nazis one who attacked a synagogue it's not like you marry a neo-Nazi and just treat it like he's I don't know he's got a model train in the garage and it's his hobby like you have to believe in these things with him oh there he goes off in the garage to do his strange white nationalist fucking nation building project well yeah it's fine it's his thing i'm gonna go to book club it's not like oh we you know we found out later when when we found all of his weird online aliases.

It's like back in those days, you had to like get in the car and drive to like, you know, Nazi Club, you know, like where he's a literal car-carrying member of Nazi Club.

I'm gonna balance my checkbook in the analog way because we didn't have fucking online bank or the internet, and then I'm gonna drive to Nazi Club.

It's like you had to be pretty, I mean, I guess you can be like, I'm gonna go bowl, I'm gonna go bowling, but like, if you go bowling a lot and you come home with you never have any bowling gear, but you do have fucking pickle hubs, like they might be like, hey, something's going on here.

Hey, the pickle hub might just be mean he's a loyalist to the Kaiser.

It could be a lot of things.

Okay, okay, okay.

Debbie was a born and raised Kansas woman who spent her childhood hiking in the Rocky Mountain National Park in Colorado.

She shared Bob's love of nature and also, unfortunately, his politics.

Her response said, I really feel the most important job a woman can have is to raise children.

You can't have a good society unless the home is a decent place.

It reminded Bob of his Mormon days, and Debbie was the eighth letter he got.

Eventually, 130 women would respond to his ad.

Yeah, that's all of the women that lived in that entire region.

It was all across the Pacific Northwest.

He was getting letters from not yet out hot lesbians in fucking, I don't know,

Sleater, Kinney Road, and Olympia, Washington.

Imagine what they could have missed out on.

You know what I mean?

Geez.

In his original ad, did he ask to like make sure they're white?

Or is it just kind of the assumption that only white women are reading this newspaper?

Well, more than likely, but literally, the only thing his ad said was looking for a mature, intelligent woman, 18 to 25, to share my life and land with in Washington.

But when they met, Debbie would recount he was a little shorter than she normally would have liked.

You know, shout out the short kings, uh, justice for short kings, unfortunately.

A little shorter, voice way too high-pitched for my liking.

Oh, hold that thought, but he bristled with enthusiasm.

And when talking about his land nature and how he saw saw his future as the patriarch of a large family great first date chat she also said that although he was 22 he had the voice of a 13 year old not just a little but a childlike voice filled with intensity

Oh,

I know it might be a little bit forward for a first date, but I see myself as the patriarch holding the sword of the father and the Lord on this land, and I will bring destitution to anyone who dares stand up against it.

And yes, there is a mountain near here called Hook Nosed Peak, and I use to remind me of who my true enemy is.

Can I come inside you now?

I thought I had no game.

My God, like, I am, I stand before you, fully admitting I have no game at all.

But this man makes me look like the most charismatic motherfucker to ever walk the earth.

But in true white conservative fashion, they were married in February 1976, a few months later, and moved in together into a house that they paid $45 a month for for rent.

That's Mormon Maxing.

All the extra money went into Bob's farm.

They both picked up some extra work, Debbie in a small hospital and managing a local apartment complex.

Bob then was working as a side gig, as a strength coach at a nearby school, mainly because he enjoyed working with the kids, but mostly appreciated having free access to the gym equipment, which he used tirelessly.

Mindful of his Scottish heritage, Bob scraped together money for bagpipe lessons every Monday evening for about three months.

He and Debbie drove a hundred miles round trip to Nelson, British Columbia to study the instrument with a teacher from Scotland.

Bob's goal was to entertain Medellin Falls at midnight on New Year's Eve, dressed in a kilt and playing his music down Grand View Street.

Unfortunately, his fingers were too short to handle the canter.

But it was around this time that Bob got his first recruit for his new America, a stocky Irish Catholic from Long Island called Ken Loff, who owned a small patch of land beside Bob's.

Ken was also a hopeful homesteader and was living in California at the time.

And the two met as Ken was visiting his land and the two immediately hit it off.

Ken was holding off relocating for when the right job opportunity came up, and Bob, ever the genial person, invited Ken to stay for dinner that evening, where he said he would keep an eye out for some work.

Literally a month later, in September, Matthews rang Loff to let him know that one of the two local petrol stations had come up for sale and that he thought it could be a good money maker.

Loft soon relocated with his wife Marlene, and unfortunately, in May 1977, the Bunker Hill mine closed, throwing the area into economic disarray.

Bob quickly got another job at Portland Lehigh cement plant in August 1977.

And by 1978, Bob's family had decided to leave Phoenix, Arizona for some reason to move in with Bob.

They had spent the past while coming up and down.

renting a small house nearby, but not ready to make the full commitment.

Johnny and Bob's brother Lee helped him on the farm, clearing the land and building his dream log cabin.

They also took Bob's older brother Grant out of the institutional care that he was in.

If you remember in the previous episode, Grant, a diagnosed schizophrenic, was placed in institutional care by his family.

And that really wouldn't last that long.

He lived in the apartment Bob's parents had been renting previously, but soon had to be reinstitutionalized because he flooded the apartment because he ran out the house and down the street with nothing but a towel on his head because he could hear voices while the water in the bath was running and it flooded the entire apartment.

Another time he trashed the apartment because he thought his radio was picking up voices from a nearby river.

So all-round really good and caring family, I suppose.

In his defense, the radio was picking up voices.

That's how radio works.

Ken Loft soon followed Bob to working at Portland Lehigh, selling the petrol station to a local pharmacist, and the two became like brothers.

But there was always something strange about Bob that went over Ken's head almost always.

Bob was a massive racist.

One time,

while the Lofts were hosting a Christmas party, Ken put on a record just to entertain people.

He put on a Nat King Cole record, and Bob excused himself from the room and went to stand out in the freezing cold rather than listen to the music.

My ears are too racist for this.

Yeah, there was other signs as well.

His parents thought the same on a weird afternoon at a local county fair in Cusick.

I think I'm saying that correctly.

I don't care if I'm not.

While they were wandering through the exhibits with Bob and Debbie, They came across a white woman arm in arm with a black man, which wasn't unusual for the times, but wasn't a hugely common sight in the area.

And Bob stopped dead in his tracks and gave the couple a disgusted look.

His mother was like super fucking embarrassed, and it reminded her that, you know, even in his John Birch days and during the tax protesting, her son was never expressed any racist sentiments.

As a kid, one of his best friends in Marfa, Texas was another black kid, and she didn't know where this was coming from.

But in the quiet of his own home, Bob was developing a peculiar set of reading habits.

Bob abhorred mainstream culture.

He had previously told members of the Sons of Liberty to sell their radios and their TVs, and he didn't own one himself, believing to do so would be polluting his mind.

The top three TV shows at the time were Laverne and Shirley, Three's Company, and Happy Days.

So Bob hated the Fons, I guess.

Fair enough, I will say.

The Fons kind of sucks.

Maybe he was that old-timey racist where where he's like, no, Italians aren't white.

Like, that Fonzarelli can't be hanging out with those nice white kids.

But it was during the winter nights when it was impossible to work on his farm.

He would sit at home by the fire or in the sitting room or in the kitchen reading books.

But his interest had turned away from his previous fascination with history and towards politics.

Do you want to have a guess what one of his new favorite books was in 1978?

Turner Diaries.

Turner Diaries.

Which Way Western Man?

Oh,

okay.

That's not like a pleasantly surprised oh.

I just thought he was going to be much more, you know,

normal.

Yeah, but much more normal for his type of guy in this era, you know?

But we're going to get to the Turner Diaries.

Oh, I know we are.

I know we are.

But this like really insane racist screed, that is Which Way Western Man, deeply influenced Bob, and he felt the pull of the ideology that confirmed his own suspicion that the white man was being displaced in his own land by Jews, blacks, and what Christian identity would call mud people.

Oh, so he, what you're telling me is he was a huge fan of Harry Potter.

Yep.

R.I.P.

Pop Matthews, you would have loved Harry Potter.

You would love J.K.

Rowling so much.

But over the next year, from 1978 to 79, Bob would subscribe to a network of underground newsletters, all filled with far-right-wing rhetoric ranging from survivalism manuals, racially charged news, opinions from some of the Christian identity movement's biggest thinkers, and outright white supremacist propaganda.

One piece of media that Bob read that he found of Revelation was a book recently published called The Turner Diaries.

Woo!

We're back to the classics.

And by classics, I mean racist fan fiction for people with a fifth grade reading level.

So, Joe, since you are the resident expert, I have read the Turner Diaries.

I now own a copy of the Turner Diaries.

Yes, I have also read the Turner Diaries.

I used to own a copy of the Turner Diaries that I stole.

And I have since ditched it because I'm pretty sure I've lived in a few countries where owning it is illegal.

But

so, to make a very long story short, the Turner Diaries is the the,

it charts the whole fantasy of the race war.

You should not read it.

It's a horrible book.

It's not even fun to read.

It's very poorly written.

Yeah.

Like I said, it's written for someone with the fifth grade reading level, and I mean that.

It's not even interesting to read if you want to learn more about this.

You've heard things from it.

Like you've heard racists on the internet probably say like the day of the rope.

That is from the Turner Diaries.

And if I remember correctly, the whole thing ends with our titular main character ending the race war on the side of the racists via suicidal nuclear bombing,

if my memory serves correctly.

Yeah, it's an absolutely psychotic screed.

It was written by a guy under a pen name, and for a long time he managed to remain anonymous, but he got ye oldie doxed a while ago, and he's still that way.

I believe he died recently, but yeah.

He died in like 2002, I think.

Yeah.

Cut a long story short, Turner Diaries is set in a future where the government, through a series of raids, has confiscated the weapons of every American, and it follows Earl Turner and his organization as they attempt to overturn the Zog Zionist-occupied government by force of arms and deposing the government and establishing a white America, the group formed of small cells and acts of stochastic terrorism, executing rage traders.

This book has influenced everything since it came out.

It also like outlines like you know attacking infrastructure infrastructure and things of that nature, which is certainly something we are actually seeing happen in Adam Waffen circles before they all got party banned.

Yeah, but to skip forward in time a little bit, by the end of 1981, Bob and Debbie would have a child, although not exactly how Bob would have preferred.

After suffering several miscarriages over the four years of their marriage to date, it became apparent that the couple would not be able to conceive a child through natural methods and instead opted for adoption.

That same year, Ken Loff and his wife Marlene would bring their second child into the world and Bob and Ken would spend a lot of time talking about fatherhood and raising families.

Ken had come to trust Bob's astute knowledge on many things and this was no different.

Once again, Bob doesn't have the best opinions.

It was then when discussing the downturn in the local economy, politics, weather and everything in between that Bob was constantly relating everything back to their children.

And then he said,

a few few words that I think we're all going to be familiar with.

We have to secure a better future for our children.

Never good when you hear that.

You know, the 14 words, so to speak, in a way.

We're going to talk about the guy who invented the 14 words in the next part.

Oh, fuck, right.

Because of the church.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yep.

I remember this guy.

But Matthew said to Loft, it's up to us.

The government works against us.

The way it taxes middle-class whites into into submission, we've got to stand up for our children's rights.

Look at all the outsiders that Seattle City Lights has brought into work at the dam.

Why there are families just here getting by that could use that work?

What's left for our children?

What will we be able to leave them?

Ken trusted Bob's intelligence so much that he didn't question it much.

Two months later, in February 1982, Bob came to Ken very excited about something and told him that he'd found a new church and he planned to have his adopted son Clint baptized there.

I think you can kind of guess what this church is.

Yes, I don't remember what it's called, but I am, I do know what its symbol looks like and I'm seeing it in my head.

Yep.

So they visited

Hayden Lake, the Church of Jesus Christ Christian.

All these churches have very, very strange names.

Well, Bob had said to Ken, I found a church about three hours away that preaches good news about the white race.

It's a place for white families, white Christian families.

I'd like you, Marlene, and the babies to come.

And when they visited Aryan nations, Loff was introduced to Richard Butler.

And although he didn't consider himself a racist, he was generally a kind of conservative guy, but not on the racist side.

When the talk of affirmative action making white people second-class citizens, he completely bought in.

Thinking of his children simply being disenfranchised because of this color of their skin, simply put, Ken Loft was a fucking moron.

I fucking hate people like this.

This is like, it's so common these days where anybody that sees any kind of law or regulation to try to push a form of equality, which we should have under the law anyway, but in reality, we don't through education, through economic means, through anything like, oh, no, this is discrimination against me, the people who have everything.

We don't want to share.

And him forcing me to share in an equitable manner is the same as white genocide.

But it kind of doesn't stop there.

At the end of their visit, Loft's two sons and the Matthews Clint were being baptized as Aryan warriors by Butler.

And there is an irony here because Loft was raised a Catholic who had a Jewish man as his best man at his wedding.

And now his kids were being baptized by a man who thought that Jewish people were literally the spawn of Satan and that Catholics were sheep controlled by a Zionist conspiracy.

The Latter-day Church of Hitler.

Yeah.

You know, watching people just kind of like aw shucks gee whiz their way into becoming Timothy McVeigh is like, in a way, more embarrassing than the origin story of Timothy McVeigh himself.

Yeah.

But the ironic thing is that Matthews only really return a handful of times to Curdaline like physically.

More for the fellowship than the religious doctrine.

Matthews believed in God, but at this stage had assembled assembled his own teleology by borrowing selected tenants from a menu of faiths and from Odinism.

He wasn't very impressed with Richard Butler, but the 20 acres out by the lake made a good place for him to meet young men who believed as he did.

Essentially, what he was doing was white supremacist cruising.

Oh,

that is a really disappointing way to meet men in the woods, I must say.

You can't go to Hampstead Heath and go dogging.

Can't go cruising in Hampstead Heath.

Just go by a, go join a neo-Nazi.

It's dawning on me.

Like, we've all seen the youth pastor approach.

Like, you know, who's really, who's really rebel spinning the chair backwards?

Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

He's doing that, but with like cruising, he's like, you know, who really dominates our race, spins the chair out.

Let's rap a little bit.

Oh, my God.

Jesus fucking Christ.

Yeah, I mean, you're not wrong, but.

But it was in 1992 that Bob Matthews would start to build his white American bastion in earnest.

White American Bastion is what he conceptualized the future as.

He placed ads in right-wing independent newspapers, hoping that through sheer force of numbers, if he attracted enough people to his cause and his land, they could influence the politics and governance of the region.

There you go, Joe.

Your comment earlier on has paid off.

This is also going off of White Nationalist cruising.

This is just the scene from like Always Sunny where they make the arm thing, but it looks like a dick because they're looking for friends it's like no no we're gonna hang out in the woods we're not gonna fuck each other in the woods

this is not for dogging it kind of reminds me of like the libertarians who are like let's all move to new hampshire and make it yeah that's exactly what it is the liberty it was like the the liberty or death movement or whatever it's called taxation or death movement this is something that is still going on in the pacific northwest specifically in like idaho and other communities where they're trying to change the demographics to get not just white people, because these areas are obviously demographically, overwhelmingly white, but specifically white nationalists into like city councils, really weird offices of the government to influence things.

And this is actually how I don't know if this church still exists, but there's a form of neo-Nazis that, like you were talking about the gatherings into Odinism, that in an effort to cover their tracks and not look like such Nazis, like, no, no, we are the Asatru assembly.

You know, we're heathens, pagans who simply want to

recapture our northern European culture.

Oh, by the way, no black people are allowed in the church.

It's like, once again, to bring it back to Is Always Sonny, it's when Frank designs the new logo for the bar and it's just four F's.

Yeah, on the white and red flag.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm wearing the Nazi uniform.

Not because I am actually a fascist.

I just love hitting DL trade.

That's it.

It's the only Hugo boss suit i could afford

but one ad he placed in a publication called spotlight the most widely read of these sorts of publications and its classifies are very interesting it was full of a broad spectrum of goods and services mail drops gun silencer parts nazi paraphernalia and false identification instructions were sold alongside poetry lay trial subscriptions lay trial is a alternative pseudoscience treatment for cancer,

dating services for patriotic Christians, and most importantly, automotive devices to dramatically increase gasoline mileage that were being suppressed in the free market.

Fuck yes.

I love this shit.

This is kind of like a dweebier version of the classifies of Soldier of Fortune magazine.

I mean, all of them end up in Rhodesia in one way or another.

Whether you're answering the classifieds in Soldier of Fortune or you're attaching weird magnets to the side of your 80s car for gas mileage or whatever it is, like you're all ending up in Salisbury at some point.

Yeah, the Jews don't want you to know about magnets.

Fucking magnets.

How do they work?

ICP fucking brought the NAS people.

They were the modern Prometheus.

Yeah.

This is why they have to be punished constantly by still being in ICP.

Yeah, exactly.

So that would imply that God is on the side of the fucking conspiracists because he's constantly punishing them by making them wake up as the members of ICP.

Because God's a twisted fan.

But Bob received a lot of responses to his ad, and to each he sent a short pamphlet he made, each printed by Aryan nations on their own printing press.

The pamphlet read, Onward, the course of progress takes our people onward to the stars.

Under a white American bastion banner was drawn.

Two brave-looking white men, one a Viking warrior, the other a caped pioneer, facing each other in the pine forest.

Okay, so we're just getting to the

foundations of Elon Musk here.

White nationalism must take to the stars!

It gets even more fucking stupid.

I fucking hate all these idiots.

It went on to say: look into the window of your mind.

Look into the window of your mind and picture a vast expanse of mist, shrouded, heavily forested valleys and mountains.

It is early morning, and you stand at the edge of a large meadow.

Suddenly, the powerful double notes of an ancient horn shatter the quiet and before your eyes, many people start to assemble in the meadow.

Your heart leaps with joy because every face in the meadow is a kindred of yours.

You see an elderly white woman holding the hand of an inquisitive little boy, his dark brown hair, the color of the rich earth and his green eyes, the color of the grass.

I have read like illicit gay correspondence from the 80s that people who were in the closet send each other that are less kind of homoerotic than this.

Like, this guy wants to fuck the land.

I also would say, too, that the dark brown hair and green eyes is sort of like, you realize you would be like, Hitler would be like, Can we do some testing on that motherfucker?

I don't think he's Arian.

So, imagine that intro, like the fog, the rolling hills, and then you hear a voice piercing through all of it.

It's like, you want to hear my bagpipes?

Guys, can you get me my stilts so I can play the bagpipes, please?

My finger stilts!

I'm not tall enough to play it, but I'm gonna lead you to Christian dominance.

The ancestral horde is the worst way to describe a pair of bagpipes.

And I say this, and I meet it.

I know we have a lot of Scottish friends, a lot of Scottish listeners, but that is the worst fucking instrument I've ever heard in my life.

And I disagree with you, Joe.

You got some noises I'm going to make.

It's this fucked up sheep stomach with some hole, like some tube sticking out of it.

Do you want to hear me?

It's a shrieking stomach of wind.

Hey, guys, I brought this new Scottish music for you to listen to.

I hope you like the tones of Gabber.

Robbie goes to Scotland seeking out true Scottish Aryan music and comes back very confused by the first two Simple Minds albums.

I just don't understand why they have so many computers involved.

I'm very passionate about the music of Aztec Camera.

He just goes to Scotland and is just like supremely confused by Rangers versus Celtic.

Is being baptized is like a Scottish weed meet you have to go get glassed by your friends at the pub?

Like ceremonially glass, like a knighting?

No, what they're doing is like the, you know, the Nazi version of like giving themselves scars.

Oh, they're glassing each other.

Yeah.

They're glassing each other.

They're stealing valor.

I don't know about

Scottish valor.

But I feel like, Joe, you and I have been obliged.

We've been forcibly given communion to be Scottish.

I don't know what you're talking about.

That never happened.

Yeah, I don't have any memory of it either, actually.

I actually genuinely don't.

I mean, I know it happened, but I have no idea.

And I will never find out because I will never listen to that recording.

No recording.

At this point, Bob had become a really deft preacher of his ideology and his dream.

He had a way of courting interest by not lecturing those he could sense weren't interested.

But instead, he would slowly build a rapport with people and then slowly slip in bits of information to

test the waters of the people he would meet.

But behind closed doors, when he would come home from work, he would rant and rave for hours to Debbie about his co-workers and others, about how they were selling out the white race and how they had been lulled into a false existence by modernity and all that came with it.

And this is how you know Bob Matthews is a fucking loser.

At one point, one of his co-workers at the plant put a poster up of a nude black woman on his locker.

Bob, incensed, tore it down.

I don't want to look at these black titties.

My eyes are too racist for this.

I'm not gay.

I'm just racist.

Like, you know, someone who's working in a cement factory in fucking northern, northern Pacific Northwest is like, is he gay or something?

He doesn't want to look at some tits.

Soon, people began to respond to Bob's ads in earnest.

Charles Austrout, a money room supervisor in San Francisco, working for Brink's Armored Car Depot, corresponded with Matthews and opined that he had been passed over for promotions in favor of black people.

Matthews, in his charitable nature, sent him back $50 and said he hoped it would help.

Two more men, William Sutterquist and Richie Kemp, soon entered Matthews' orbit.

Sutterquist, like Matthews, was a young bircher at 11 and at 16 had joined William Pierce's National Alliance.

So there's like a whole like cadre of these psycho 10 and 11 year olds out there.

There's more than one now.

And now they're just watching Andrew Tate on TikTok.

But anyway, Richie Kemp, a friend of Soderquist's, was helping Ken Loft nearby brand cattle.

And both of them were in their early 20s and very, very impressed by Matthews.

But despite this, not many people were coming to Matthews' farm.

Through Aryan Nations, Matthews would meet some others who would become increasingly important to what would come.

Namely, Randy Dewey, Denver Power Mentor, and most importantly, Gary Yarbrough.

Randy Dewey.

Randy Dewey is a name now.

Okay.

That's a king of the hill character right there.

Yeah.

R.I.P.

John Redcorn.

Yeah.

Was

there a homophobic attack?

Fucking horrible.

But these three men all came from different backgrounds.

Yarbrough was a common petty thief and a criminal with a couple of kids in tow who found a new meaning in life through Aryan Nations and was radicalized through mail order tapes and books from Christian identity groups.

while he was serving time in prison for burglary.

It's a whole other thing.

Aryan Nations had a massive prison outreach program where they tried to radicalize prisoners.

I have a hot take, which is if you ever are lost in life and you find your way through white nationalist Christian identity, suicide is a better option.

You should just kill yourself.

As Ozzy Osborne said, suicide is painless.

There you go.

Yeah.

Randy Dewey was an intellectually bright Air Force veteran who found Baptist churches after the Army to be a spiritual dead end and was seeking

more development.

Denver Parmentor is interesting and there is some conspiracy theories about him, but he was the most politically developed of the three, born in West Germany to a career Air Force officer.

He moved in with his mother in Florida at a young age after their divorce, eventually joined the army, was stationed in Turkey post-army.

He developed a bit of a drinking problem and worked for the Youth for Reagan group in 1980.

I mean, this is just a blueprint of how to absorb the most amount of Hitler particles a human being possibly can.

And I also feel like we've just encountered, being Americans of our age, like this is slightly older than us, obviously, but like we've encountered so many people who like had this life trajectory.

But Power Mentor and Dewey would become friends while living in a college town in 1977 and over time would develop ideologically while playing darts and drinking beers.

All three would end up as part of Richard Butler's security detail for Aryan Nations.

All right.

They had to develop this political ideology over beer and darts because Counter-Strike hadn't been invented yet.

Can you imagine how much, like, like we talk about how it's worse now, but like, yeah, so many of these guys wouldn't have formed paramilitary organizations if they could have just had their time wasted on OnlyFans.

Oh, Nate.

Oh, God.

Hold that thought.

What?

Not in this episode.

In the next one.

Oh, boy.

Bob would come to know these three through Aryan Nations.

But it was in 1983 that Bob would really come to the fore of the radical right during an Aryan Nations rally in Spokane, Washington, in memory of Gordon Carl, a North Dakotan farmer who had been shot dead by U.S.

Marshals.

Of course, these things happened in Spokane.

That's all I'll say about that.

That might be the most Spokane thing to have happened in this episode so far.

Carl, his story was his farm had gone into debt due to several bad harvests and he had been radicalized by Christian identity survivalist camps against the banks as he saw as corrupting the land in defiance.

He stopped paying his taxes.

I do respect this man for one thing, and that is being so involved with the Afrikaner and Rhodesian movement that he was also a farmer that was murdered.

Yes, you know, I think we have a long history of people who are murdered as boar farmers and people who are murdered because they are spiritually boar farmers.

But soon, um, the federal government got wind of his training and his weapons and set out to arrest him during a training exercise with one of his survivalist groups.

Riding with his son, Yoravan,

they spotted the marshals approach.

He named his son Yoravan.

Y O R I V A N.

All right, we're safe.

This isn't on us.

This isn't on us.

That seems like some Lord of the Rings Viking shit.

Yeah.

Not on us, Armedians.

We're all good.

But they spotted the Marshals approaching and took position behind their car and got ready to defend themselves.

The Marshals accidentally shot Yorovan, the Large Sons,

rifle stock, but Kyle thought they had shot his son, so he opened fire on them with his Ruger Mini 14 automatic rifle,

killing two and wounding four.

It then took four months for the government to track him down after they fled the standoff.

When the Marshals did track him down in Arkansas, his hosts, who were fellow survivalists, gave themselves up immediately when the house was surrounded.

But Carl remained inside with his mini-14.

He shot and killed one agent and held the rest off until a smoke grenade was dropped down the chimney and the house suddenly went up in flames.

No, I hate what the FBI does then.

That is not the last time this will happen in this series.

It's not even the last time it'll happen in the annals of American white supremacy.

But Gordon Carl died engulfed in flames and had thus become a martyr for the cause against government tyranny and the IRS.

And it was behind this rallying cry that united the Aryan nations in June 1983.

A protest of anti-fascists had been organized to protest Butler's speeches and they bristled against the blockade of Nazis in the park.

Matthews then defiantly broke rank from the rest of the security detail and stood out in front to challenge the protesters on his own.

And he was like arguing with them, shouting at them, Nate, do you want to take this?

Yeah, you know, people fought and died for this country to protect our right to free speech.

Some of them were definitely fighting against Nazis, and I think that was bad.

But in this case, we are being oppressed.

We deserve our free speech to be protected.

We do not deserve to be oppressed by Antifa.

The black block is making me even shorter than I already am.

It's really uncomfortable.

Eventually, I'm going to fit inside a shoe.

No one's going to respect me anymore.

You've got to stop it.

I'm really unwell, guys.

I'm sorry.

I'm trying my best.

This act emboldened the other security detail who linked arms with Matthews and pushed back the protesters.

It was plain to see for anyone that was there that Matthews had the makings of a leader.

And this impressed Randy Dewey, Denver Power Mentor, Gary Yarborough, and a recent convert named Bruce Pierce, who had already been there.

No relation to William Pierce.

I will say it's probably really easy to impress a guy named Randy Dewey.

I don't know why, but I feel like he's easily impressed.

Randy Dewey is a name that has

large sun energy.

Yeah, like he's oaf coated.

Oaf Cody and Bruce Pierce sounded like you'd see photos of them and they'd have like Bob Seeger hair and beard wearing plaid shirts tucked into jeans.

Like I just know enough about the Pacific Northwest to know that type of guy.

Or like, they were like members of Billy Joel's band in the 70s or some shit.

Like it's just.

But it was a month later at the Aryan World Congress, all of the nation's leading racists there, Richard Butler, Jim Ellison from the Covenant Sword and the Arm of the Lord,

someone who we will come back to in the next episode,

David Lane, who used to be part of the KKK in Denver and is also credited for inventing the 14 words.

He opened a church at one point.

Yeah.

All these guys opened a fucking church.

They were all there and they were all thinking about the future of the white nation.

And it was during the Congress that Butler hosted private leadership meetings to push his theme of unity.

This was communicated through, you know, newsletters.

And also as well, in the 80s, Aryan Nations would develop their own internet.

So these people are like ahead of the curve.

If there's ever been.

a Congress more likely to be catered by Golden Corral, I've never heard of it.

But at one session in Aryan Hall in Aryan Nations, this is their big meeting hall, 13 men representing Texas, Montana, Michigan, Arkansas, California, Pennsylvania, and North Dakota discussed the prospects for a white homeland.

So, Joe, are you happy that the Michigan racists have shown up?

Oh, I'm not even a little bit surprised.

Michigan is racist as fuck.

I mean, me and Nate have often talked about this on the show, where like Michigan was never in the Confederacy, much like Indiana.

But if you go, you know, say, let's say slightly north of Detroit or really in any direction outside of Detroit, you'll see Confederate flags,

shit like that.

Like the Michigan militia was famously a thing,

loosely, kind of tangentially connected to the Oklahoma City bombings.

Like Michigan is fucked up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, the upper Midwest has this.

I mean, I made my joke in the early part of this episode in the skit at the start about Minnesota because outside of Minneapolis, like there's a a lot of Nazis in Minnesota.

Like this area of the U.S., I'm sure.

Minnesota Nazis.

So yeah, it's, it's just, um, and at this time, I think, like, the kind of long tail of reaction to the civil rights movement, like, the stuff that led to Reagan, like a lot of it's what manifested in Washington politics is the polite version of the really, really racist, fucked up segregationist, white nationalist shit.

It's still there, but it, you know, it reached.

It was going to get more powerful in Michigan, I should say.

It reached its apex, I think, in a lot of ways in this era because then it eventually led to these confrontations, like armed confrontations and such.

But it was after the meeting, a sheet of paper was circulated through the group so they could all write down their mailing addresses.

That seems like a bad idea.

I mean, I'm not one to stop a criminal in the middle of auditing them.

Like, this is Strigger Bell.

Are you taking notes in the middle of a criminal fucking conspiracy type shit, you know?

Well, Joe, I just got to say, you are in agreement with Jim Ellison, the leader of the Covenant Sword and the Arm of the Lord.

Well, yeah, he was running a terror group.

Oh,

wait until part three when we talk more about the Covenant Sword and the Arm of the Lord.

There's some great stuff in there.

But Jim Ellison, at the end of the meeting, after everyone had written down their mailing address, held up the piece of paper and said, I want you all to realize that each of us in this room have just committed treason.

It's worth noting that Ellison was a bit eccentric.

He had anointed himself himself King James of the Ozarks.

Famously, he would do a thing in the 80s that would split the covenant sword and arm of the Lord.

But I'm not going to talk about that now because it's so fucking funny.

But I've saved it for the next episode.

It's a covenant sword and the leg of the Lord.

You know, the schism.

Yes.

But

despite all this, his gunsmiths were among the best in the movement and his survival training courses were top-notch.

So he was humored despite the fact he was a fucking weirdo.

Like being called a weirdo among all these people says a lot.

That's an indictment of your character for sure.

Yeah.

But at another meeting in Butler's house, a group talked obliquely about how it was time for action to establish an Aryan homeland, but no one seemed ready to act.

That was one of Matthew's greatest frustrations.

You know, he wanted action.

And by August 1983, Bob would make his own moves.

He hired a builder from Aryan Nations to construct a 20 by 35 foot outbuilding on his land to accommodate visitors, as well as to act as a barracks for things to come.

Soon there was talk of fundraising for an American bastion, a white American bastion.

Matthews believed that they needed to be self-sufficient as well as generous.

The fight was not just here, but everywhere, and other groups needed support too.

He was generous beyond measure, often donating whatever he could to those he deemed in need of help.

And he was trusting to a fault and hired many, many men he knew to come and help your timber on his land that they could then sell for profit and they could all keep the cash.

And he would trust people who maybe he shouldn't have.

Powermenter, Dewey, Yarborough, Pierce, Kemp, Soderquist, and Lane all saw Matthews as the real deal.

And soon Bob would convince them.

that Pastor Butler was only full of lavish talk, but very, very little action.

And what they needed was action.

They would raise money for the right wing and they would bring about change.

Soon, Bob would be leading discussions on the Turner diaries, Essays of a Klansman, and The Roadback.

The fictional Earl Turner's first diary entry sums up Bob Matthews' desire at this point.

September 16th, 1991.

Today it finally began.

After all these years of talking and nothing but talking, we have finally taken our first action.

We are at war with the system and it is no longer a war of words.

And that is where we will pick up next week on part three of the order.

That is a podcast.

Gentlemen, how are you feeling?

You guys want to join my book club?

I have a Bronze Age illness that I caught from my daughter and I have mouth sores like nobody's business.

And I've been fighting through them this whole recording to bring you Mickey Mouse voice.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to do it now.

The pain has come back.

But I just want to say I'm feeling great.

Weirdly, because I spent some time.

My parents actually bought land in Hartstein Point, but then sold it off the coast of Washington, a different part of Washington.

But their plan was originally to live there.

And I could have been like a weird Pacific Northwest forest rat kid.

I could have grown up and I would definitely have way worse tattoos and probably be on heroin.

But beautiful part of the country, but it's just so strange because it's like, yeah, thinking back, like I know this area well enough, like all these like markers, the way these towns look.

Like anytime you look it up on Google, like I've been to so many small towns that look like this in the Pacific Northwest.

It's just like, oh yeah, Oh, yeah.

There was the time when all the freaks moved out there and most of them never left to just do Nazi shit.

Like, it's, it's depressing.

Yeah, I mean, for people who have stuck around for the show for a very long time, know that the show actually started in the Pacific Northwest.

Did.

I lived in Washington State for quite a few years.

And, yeah, no, this is surprising that

this is starting in Eastern Washington.

I live there now in Seattle.

So, like, yeah, I mean, I need to go visit and actually get a chance to meet my nephew.

And this part of me, it's like, oh, yeah,

go go.

Maybe the woods won't claim you this time but they still want to eventually they will even so

the only thing that's really surprised me so far now that we're two parts in is that there's so many weird john bircher children floating around and like nowadays that doesn't really surprise me due to the fact that you know kids can be indoctrinated without ever leaving home but like that required a certain level of oomph of evil hood spa, if you will.

I would also say nowadays, too, that if you were holding some kind of like radical extremist meeting, if like like a little kid showed up, like that would, most people would be like, this has got to be like the cops, right?

This is a sting.

This is white nationalist to catch a predator, also known as being a white nationalist.

But the government is like a schoolyard bully that takes too many of my candy.

But back then, an 11-year-old could just rock up to a John Bircher meeting and all of them like, this is fine and normal.

Welcome, child.

Don't worry, guys.

But not for weird sexual reasons, but for weird ideological reasons.

Don't worry, guys.

I'm just like you.

I've got my dad's gun.

I brought it to school and no one cared because it's the 1970s

oh god yeah

it gets weirder from here like um at this point like the schism between like area nations and matthews is like growing like considering around this time

richard butler kicked out his second in command out of area nations because he spat on a black child in town and told him you are condemned to sin and butler was like no no no no no no no no no we're gonna do this quietly don't do like that um

and it also just like the next two parts are just an example of the measure of human stupidity when you fully believe something like there are so many points where they could be like is that guy a cop is that guy a cop is that guy a cop do these e-meters work everybody grab on to my coke cans Ah, God.

I love that Scientology ended up in the Mormonism.

Oh, you got Scientology in my Mormonism.

Oh, you got Mormonism in my Scientology.

It's very funny to me, too, because

Richard Gernt Butler, white supremacist, not Richard Butler, lead singer of the psychedelic first.

But I suppose when you're telling people to become a neo-Nazi, love my way, could actually be about it.

It's, you know, that's a load-bearing gernt we have going on here.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Because if Richard Gernt Butler had written Pretty in Pink, it would have been played on the fucking bagpipes.

But,

fellas, that is a podcast.

Joe, are you excited for the arrival of the Michigan kung fu Nazi with the lie detector in part three?

I am now.

Yes.

I would love to meet our next governor.

But, fellas, that is a podcast.

You host other podcasts.

I hope Beneath Skin.

Show about the history of everything told to the history of tattooing.

Joe, this is the only podcast you host.

I don't, in fact, host Patreon Firebooks.

Maybe you should.

Maybe you should.

Nate.

I host Trash Future, or I'm the producer and sometimes co-host of Trash Future, a podcast about the tech industry being bad and also British politics, Britain in general, Brit vibes.

I'm the producer of Kill James Bond.

I'm the executive producer of No Gods, No Mayors, and I'm the co-host and producer of What a Hell of a Way to Dad.

Recent review came in for What a Hell of a Way to Dad saying that it's riveting dad content.

The person hadn't listened for a while.

Like, all they talked about was fucking installing shelves.

It's incredible.

This is like riveting.

You have no idea how much I love it.

So that's what it is now.

It's me and Francis talking about the best way to install shelves.

But that's just me and Joe, like, on fucking lines of my robots, talking for 20 minutes about coffee.

I know.

I put it out, you know, two days ago.

And yes, I listening to you, I was like, yeah, I mean, because I used to go, obviously, with the army and shit, I know a lot about weightlifting from doing it, but I don't do it very regularly.

I'm just like, when you guys were going in the back and forth about like, what is what is the deadlifts of anime versus what is the bicep curls of anime?

What is the squats of anime?

It's just like, what did you say that

Jojo's Bizarre Adventure was the deadlifts of anime and avangelion was the was the bicep curls like that level of nicheness but imagine that for being a dad and home improvement tools anyway all of this content and more for five dollars a month for literally just five dollars but yeah thank you for listening to the show if you're hearing this when it's released you are a subscriber on patreon if you're listening on the free feed maybe consider checking out all of that good content that we spoke about for as little as five dollars a month and until next time I'm really serious.

I'm gonna shrink and get fit inside a shoe.

No one's gonna respect me, they're just gonna throw it outdoors and be like, Look, little Robert Matthews running away, skittering back to his hive, skittering back to his termite nest, because Washington state's full of him and it's fucked up.

Please don't go to Washington if you do, and you walk off the trail, you'll be eaten alive by termites.

I swear to fucking God, this happened to me.

I have ants on my feet.

Have you ever been to Fort Lewis, Washington?

You ever see the ants and the termites?

Go away.

Fucking they're horrible, infested, demon country.

Goodbye.