Episode 639: The Unsolved Murder of Melissa Witt

Hey, weirdos. Elena here.
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conditions apply. Hey, weirdos.
I'm Ash. And I'm Elena.
And this is Morbid.

This is morbid in 2025.

It's been that way probably for a long time. But not for us.
I think this is only our second episode of 2025. Is it? Okay.
I was like, am I like six weeks into 2025 being like, happy new year. New year, new us.
No, I think, I mean, for the listener, for the listener. For the listener.
Hello out there, listener. there listener the weirdos it's definitely probably like the 45th episode of 2025 probably uh but for us it's number two yeah so it's still new it's new for us mikey's looking it's only january 8th right now it is it's early it's crazy early days yet mikey said i don't know what today is the 23rd that was mikey letting you know today is the 23rd yes but for us it's the eighth there you go which means it's david bowie's birthday happy birthday david bowie happy birthday david bowie actually okay perfect segue i was watching real housewives of beverly hills last night thank you love it and garcelle bouvet's son is modeling.
And she was like, oh my god, like there are like so many great models of like during my time. It was like Naomi.
It was Iman. It was, who else did she name? Oh, is it Beverly Johnson? Yeah, yeah, Beverly Johnson.
And he goes, I don't know any of those people, which like he wouldn't because he's super young but i was like even i was like oh my god it's it really hits you in the head life comes at you so fast yeah it really does like what it hits you in the head because at first i was like are you fucking kidding me and then i was like oh you're like he's not even in his 20s like yeah why would you know i mean you know why would you really know those people i guess it's when like it's when you have to answer to children when they're like did you have this when you were younger and you're like not only did i not have that there wasn't even the capability to have that like we were talking about because uh like roblox is a big thing among like children right now but my children are not allowed to use it helicopter mom helicopter mom I don't give a fuck but I don't blame you

but right now but my children are not allowed to use it um helicopter mom helicopter mom um i don't give a fuck uh but but yeah they're not allowed to use it and they will never be allowed to use it and uh fuck roblox i think there's a bunch of predators there but that's a story for another time but they had brought it up because now they feel uh like they're fine with it yeah they understand the reasons and they're totally fine and they had brought it up at one point about like one of their friends got to use it and they were just telling me some story and then they were like did you oh did you get to use roblox when you were younger mom and i was like we didn't even have an ipad i was like babe you said we didn't even know what a tablet was not only that we didn't have the internet when i was your age the only tablets we knew of were in the fucking ancient pyramids i said now your ribs hurt i said not only did roblox not exist um the internet didn't exist they were still working i did not have a computer and tablets were not a thing did not in the pyramid did not exist so no did that nope I did not have a computer and tablets were not a thing. Tablets were in the pyramids.

Did not exist.

So no.

Did that?

Nope.

I did not have to.

Did that blow their fucking minds?

What?

Wow.

And there's been times they've asked me if pictures were in color when I was little.

That's such an insult.

And I was like, okay, yes.

All right.

I did have color.

Well, because to them, our generation was born in the 1900s. Oh, they say that all the time.
Like, damn. Yeah.
Damn. They're like, well, you're from the, and they love to say you're from the 1970s.
And I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm not even from there.
Yeah, Mikey's like, fuck you guys. Mikey's like, I'm from the 1970s and what of it? But I'm always like, can you not like send me further back into time? Like, I'm like, like you're already like they're already dogging me for being born in the 1900s and then they want to make me even i'm like all right yeah that's all right at least give me an act give my accurate date okay my favorite is that your old your youngest thinks that i'm older than you oh all the time because i'm taller and they ask every time she asks all the you like no i am 10 years younger the kids just equate almost 11 with with older it's so weird i mean it makes perfect sense but i'm like no no no i'm so much younger than mama damn so much younger but honestly at this point i wish i was older drew is gonna turn 30 uh in the 30 club he's about to join the 30 club and i night, I was like, does that feel like weird? Like, are you are you like mourning your 20s at all? And he was like, fuck.
He was like, I am so excited. Honestly, as he should be.
And I felt kind of jealous. Yeah, I feel a little bit jealous of him that he's turning 30.
You get the anticipation of it. I know I get it.
But I'm not gonna be 30 for like another year and a half. Yeah.
That's going to fly by, babe. I know.
Let's hope. It will.
I'm determined to make it fly by. Yeah, same.
Retweet. Yeah.
If you heard me earlier crying as I was laughing, that's because I sat here and I talked to Elena. We're just having some banter, okay? It's been a minute.
It's just, you know, New Year. New Year, same us.
But maybe not the same because I left a lot of me on the floor. You did.
On the cutting room floor. On the shower floor.
I got, if you, and it's going around, so I'm sure a lot of you have probably faced this in the past couple weeks, the neurovirus is going around. Wash your motherfucking hands.
Yeah, wash i don't know if i don't know if i got the neurovirus or if it was like a food poisoning thing because i did eat like a sketchy burger um you know who i am a captain crunch slurpee girl yeah the violence that was inflicted upon me and i literally just been sitting here telling elena i'm drinking colostrum'm like, I'll never get sick. I have colostrum and it's an immunity booster.
You've all been so sick and not me. Yep.
It's true. That same day.
Literally, it was like a day later. Like if that, the universe said, bitch, check yourself before you wreck yourself.
Actually, let me wreck you. The universe said, oh yeah.
Oh yeah. I died for like three days and my ribs are still hurting this was like saturday night it's wednesday now my ribs are still hurting i know that's crazy the violence with which i yacked damn yeah i'm still recovering but you know what i woke up this morning i chose myself had a little pep talk with Lux, my cat.

Yeah.

I ate my breakfast.

It was great.

It was wonderful.

We're trying to, you know, I like resolutions.

Some people hate resolutions.

I like them.

I've never been a huge resolution girly.

I never really have been either.

I've always thought it was a nice concept, but I've never really participated that much. I've always had concepts of a resolution.

I like the ideas, but I'll be the first one to admit that I like, I never really participated that much. I've always had concepts of a revolution.
Yeah. A resolution.
I like the ideas, but I'll be the first one to admit that I never really stick to them. I don't even really set them that hard.
I'll be like, yeah, I want to start working out this year. But I never give myself this plan of action, which is most of the problem.
And this year I went in being like, my first resolution is I'm going to be nicer to me.

Me too.

And I think that is the, if any of you are like, I would like a resolution or you're struggling, your first resolution should be, be nicer to you.

Because it changes.

It's like when your youngest goes, this changes everything.

Yes.

But it changes everything.

Because if you are like being a dick to yourself, like for instance, this morning, want to wake up early i felt like shit the past couple days i saw that alarm i alarm i turned it off and then i said no girl bet on yourself yeah don't give up on yourself and you didn't say like get up you lazy sack of shit you were like hey and it made the biggest difference you can do this like if you wouldn't say it to someone you love and care about don't fucking say it to yourself man i tell my kids that all the time no it's so. If you wouldn't say it to someone you love and care about, don't fucking say it to yourself, man.
I tell my kids that all the time. No, it's so true.
If you wouldn't say it to someone you love, if you wouldn't say it to me, if you wouldn't say it to Dada or anybody else you love, then don't say it to you. No.
Because you need to be nice to yourself. And it's like being nice to yourself also makes it so that you don't take shit from anyone else.
And you shouldn't. Because you don't accept that kind of shit from outside sources.
Hell no. So be nice to yourself and you will suddenly find yourself being like, oh no, I'm not taking your nasty ass comments.
I'm better than that. So that's my words of wisdom to you.
One page I suggest following if you're on like a journey to like just a morning routine or like a fitness fitness routine any kind of routine just like the habit stacking I love Shelby Sacco she's um sad to savage on Instagram oh okay she has like a podcast and everything I love her she just she starts her mornings and she like has this whole morning routine but she's where I learned habit stacking which I like habit stacking is the the move there's so much actual scientific research behind it yeah like you just slowly add things to your day that you want to be part of your routine yeah and once you're comfortable with one thing yeah that's when you add the other one like she said she was like i put too much expectation on yourself yeah she was like i used to wake up at like nine o'clock for my 9 a.m job and i was like was like, same sister. And she was like, and then I slowly started waking up 20 minutes earlier.

Yeah.

Did that for a couple weeks.

Just a little bit.

Like a little at a time.

Just don't be hard on yourself.

Yeah.

And like, if you want to do stuff, you can.

But just be nice to yourself and do it slowly.

Yeah.

And you'll get there.

And wash your hands.

Don't let people make you feel like you got to do it all at once.

See, that's part of being nice to yourself is you won't let those people tell you what to do because you'll be like, no, I deserve more than that. Thank you.
I trust me. I'm going to do what I say.
Yeah. I love that.
It's a nicer, more peaceful existence. It really is.
People will try to drag you into bullshit. Don't let them.
We're claiming our peace this year. That's right.
2025 is the year of peace for us. Hell yeah.
And peace for morbid listeners. Hey, yo.
All right. Well, since you're morbid listeners and we just bantered your ears off for like 45 minutes, thank you for letting us do that.
Yeah. We just went back to our roots.
Yeah. Sometimes we gotta.
We don't do it all the time, but we're feeling our roots. I just love going back to our roots.
Yes. I love it.
But let's go back to what you're here for, which is a case. case yeah and this case is really important because it's an unsolved case so it's a little bit shorter obviously because when it's unsolved there's not like the whole trial part of everything yeah um but this was a hulu documentary that came out like a few months ago probably and i said to dave i was like we gotta cover this because it's really interesting and i want to get more ears this.
So let's go. We're going to talk about the unsolved murder of Melissa Witt.
And it's so sad because she was 19 when she went missing. And that's when you look back at 19, that's a baby.
Oh my God. For me, that was like 10 years ago.
And the difference between who I was then and who I am now. I know for you, it was like way longer ago.
For me, it was 20 years ago. That's okay.
I'm older than the amount of years that is. But you look great.
Yeah. And you're beautiful.
So going back to the story, let's talk about Melissa Ann Witt before she disappeared, obviously. Melissa Ann Witt was born April 20th, 1975.
She too was from the 70s. Oh, there you go.
In Arkansas to John and Mary Ann Witt. She was raised in Fort Smith.
I always want to say Arizona, but it's Arkansas. I look at AR.
Oh, yeah. And my brain says Arizona.
I feel that. It's Arkansas.
Arkansas. Arkansas.
Don't yell at us. We're kidding.
I know. I'm kidding.
I promise. But she was raised alongside her brother, Ronnie, and her sisters, Caroline and Barbara.
She was a good student. She was very active in her church community at the Grand Avenue Baptist Church.
and she always had really good relationships with her family, particularly her mother. They were super close.
After Melissa's death, her mother would say how she never really had any trouble with Melissa at all. They were just best friends.
They were always there for each other. And while a lot of teenagers usually, you know, obviously try to distance themselves from their parents, Melissa's relationship with her mom was always a source of pride for the two of them.
All her friends and family knew just how close they were. And specifically, they knew how protective Marianne was over Melissa.
Oh, that's so beautiful. I know.
And especially like at 19. That's the thing.
To have that relationship with your mom. Wow.

Because obviously that's.

That's the dream.

Yeah. I mean, teenagers usually try to distance themselves from their parents around those years.
Oh. This is already breaking my heart.
I know. So after graduating from Northside High School in 1993, Melissa enrolled at Westark Community College with plans of becoming a dental hygienist.
Oh, damn. Yeah.
Not long after starting her first semester, she actually became an ambassador for the school. Holy shit.
Which meant that she would go out and recruit students to go there, promoting the school and its programs to any prospective students in the area. Oh, that's cool.
Yeah. And like the school has to trust you to send you out there and rep them like that.
Also, dreams of becoming a dental hygienist. Dental like school in school.
It's tough. In any capacity, hygienist or dentist, like, full-blown dentist, so hard.
So hard. Like, so much involved in that.
And you see some of the gnarliest shit. Yeah.
I was friends with a girl who went to dental hygienist school, and she saw, like, spiders in somebody's mouth before. That was something I feel like I was better for not knowing.
Well, now you're worse. I was better before that, I feel.
You know how many times? Holy shit. You've done so many info drops on me like that.
That's true. So you're welcome.
You've been better before. Oh, but can – No, I can't.
And also, how do you just like sit there and calmly, I guess, remove the spiders from said mouth and then be like, You gotta be – Hey, like we gotta be like good about brushing around the molars because like spiders there was there was some arachnids taken up not a rat taking up uh space in there that's horrific arachnids were holding space in your mouth no i can't that's awful i cannot that's awful i gotta go woof well Well, KFSM reporter Charlene Shirk told ABC News in 2024 the college had her go and recruit students because they wanted students like her. She was already a hard worker.
She had big dreams for her life. Oh.
And it just goes to show that she was willing to put in the work to make her dreams reality. Because in her spare time, Melissa actually worked as an assistant for a local dental practice in town.

Oh, damn.

So she was like, I want to do this. I'm going to start now.

Yeah, she's already like in the, you know, I'm going to get the on-site experience.

Yes.

The office manager, Anita Dodson, said,

Missy was a very good kid. She was friendly.
She didn't have any enemies.

Everyone loved her, and she was a good student, although she would still joke around with us. Instacart is on a mission to have you not leave the couch this basketball season, because between the pregame rituals and the postgame interviews, it can be difficult to find time for everything else.
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Excludes restaurants. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan.
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And the suspect. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione.
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You can join Wondery Plus on the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. And according to Dodson, Melissa brought an invaluable warmth and brightness to the office whenever she was in the building.
And after her disappearance, she said the absence of that brightness could be felt by everyone. She said, the staff here are close, like family, and we did all we could to support each other when Missy went missing.
Everyone was upset such a long time she was so sweet and so nice oh it sounds like she just left a gaping void yeah and left like a mark on everybody that yeah in such a good way yeah so on the morning of december 1st 1994 melissa had breakfast with her mother and unfortunately which doesn't sound like it was very like them at all, they got into an argument with each other that morning. And it was over money.
According to Marianne, Melissa wanted to borrow some money and hoping to teach her daughter a valuable lesson about the value of money, she said no. And that, of course, left Melissa frustrated and she left the house frustrated.
Oh, no. to put this behind us.
Yeah. So Melissa went to school that day, left work at 5 p.m.
But when she tried to start her car that night, the engine wouldn't turn over. Later during their investigation, detectives were able to determine that the dome light in her car had been accidentally left on while she was at work.
Maybe like the door didn't close all the way or something. So the car's battery was drained.
But fortunately, she and a co-worker were able to flag down a local business owner who gave her car a jump start and she was able to get the engine started. Once the car was started, she headed home to change out of her work clothes, which investigators later found on her bedroom floor.
They also assumed that she must have seen the note that Marianne left for her because after she changed her clothes, she headed to the bowling world, arriving sometime between 6 and 6.30 and parking her car in the northwest corner of the lot. Okay.
Where her mom was inside with her bowling league. The bowling alley, unfortunately, had no security cameras in the parking lot.
You have to remember this is early 90s. It wasn't super common for everywhere to have CCTV.
It's true. Now we'd be like, what? But back then it would be like, wait, they had security cameras.
Exactly. It would be more shocking the other way.
And it's also like, back then I'm sure like banks and that kind of place had security cameras. But it's like a bowling alley.
It's a local bowling alley. For sure.
So because they didn't have security cameras, whatever happened after Melissa parked her car is almost entirely unknown. according to statements from witnesses she was last seen quote arguing with a black male at bowling

world around Whatever happened after Melissa parked her car is almost entirely unknown. According to statements from witnesses, she was last seen, quote, arguing with a black male at Bowling World around 6 p.m., and that was the last time anybody saw her.
A little before 8 p.m., somebody found her keys in the parking lot of the bowling alley and turned them into the cashier at the front desk. But at that time, nobody noticed that there was actually small splatters of blood dried onto the keys, and nobody at the alley would later remember who had turned those keys in.
Oh no. Yeah.
So later that night, when Marianne returned home, she was surprised to find that Melissa hadn't returned home yet. However, she figured that maybe she'd gone out with some friends and would come back later that night.
It wasn't something she was super worried about right away. But the next morning, when Melissa still hadn't returned, that's when Marianne became really worried.
She wouldn't have spent the night out without calling her and contacting her somehow. So she contacted the police a little after 9 a.m.
to report her daughter missing. Over the course of the next two days, Melissa's friends and family and the local police spread out across Fort Smith looking for her.
They handed out over 6,000 flyers with her photograph, but nobody had seen or heard anything.

That's, and just having to make that phone call as a mother to report your child missing, I can't, that, I feel like every time I hear that, I'm always like, I can't even bring myself to be in that position.

I can't, that, I feel like every time I hear that, I'm always like, I can't even bring myself to be in that position. I can't, that alone.
No. You know? And then to hear that no one's seen her.
There's just no one being able to be like, oh no, no, no, she's here. Like I saw her here.
And knowing that you just had like a run of the mill argument before. Oh my God.
And just knowing that that's like the last contact you had with her before she just disappeared which is so normal and so like every day of course like like i said run of the mill like everybody has argued with their mom in the morning before heading out to go somewhere yeah and and her mom did the right thing by being like you know what like i don't want to end on this note let's put this behind us meet up later like let's not end the day on a bad note. Exactly.
But, oh, it's so sad. At least, at least she knew that her daughter saw the note.
Yeah. You know? I know.
That is a good thing. But then, of course, she lived with guilt because she was the one who said, come to the bowling alley.
Oh, God. I hate that.
I know. So, it wasn't until Monday, December 4th, that Melissa's car was discovered in the parking lot of the bowling world after an employee realized that the keys had blood smeared on them finally and bore the name missy on the key chain more importantly there was also a pool of blood found near the car and one gold earring and a hair clip believed to have belonged to melissa which i'm like why did it take people that long to realize that was there she was parked in like the corner corner the far corner so i think that had a lot to do with it but i was like damn investigators yeah but when they did discover all that they cordoned off the area and they started taking samples and processing the vehicle for evidence until that moment melissa's case had actually been labeled a runaway shocked crazy but the discovery of the blood and the personal item shifted the focus to a potential kidnapping at that moment.
They still didn't think that she was murdered or anything. Several police officers contacted the employees of the bowling alley and the customers who were known to have been there that night.
But this is interesting. One person recalled hearing what sounded like a young woman's voice shouting for help at one point that evening but they said they couldn't be sure what they heard and nobody else remembered anything i never get these like i don't i'm like you heard someone yelling for help i you know what say anything in the moment to anyone else i think it's so easy to talk yourself out of what oh for sure it is like.
Oh, for sure it is. Like, I think I've probably even done it.
And hopefully, like, actually, like, it's been something where I talked myself into what it actually was kind of thing, you know? And it's easy to do it from a, you know, from hindsight kind of thing and from, like, looking at it from an outside point of view. But I always just think, and I'm, like, Uber.
And maybe it's because do this i thought well i now i think my focus has shifted so much or my perspective has shifted so much because i'm like wicked on on like high alert so if i hear something that i think is somebody yelling i will i always say something to somebody just to be like did you hear that like am i crazy? Like, I always like to know that I'm not the only one hearing it.

No, I think doing this has made us hyper aware.

It has.

Almost like to a bad point sometimes. Yeah, honestly, yeah.

There's been points when I'm like...

We like kind of spiral sometimes.

Yeah.

I heard a coyote in the woods the other night,

and I was convinced that a woman was in the woods,

like being abducted.

And Drew was like, that's absolutely coyotes.

And I was like, should we like call someone though?

He was like, Ash, that is 100% coyotes. Yeah, he's like, we are not calling someone for coyotes.
i was like should we like call someone though he was like ash that is 100 yeah he's like we are not calling someone for coyotes i was like okay okay back to the story though two weeks later fort smith police arrested a local man larry landrum on suspicion of sexual assault and a string of other crimes unrelated to melissa's disappearance landrum would later be convicted for the murder of another young woman in arkansas lucille hasler well so they probably thought they had their guy yeah at a loss for productive leads investigators hope that his arrest would be the break that they needed to find melissa or at least get some kind of answers because you know usually people like that are not associated with other great people yeah criminals no criminals his body language and evasiveness during the interview also raised a lot of red flags and the results of his polygraph examination showed deception but they were never able to collect any evidence linking him to the crime oh that's frustrating every lead that they get in this case just falls apart so frustrating because it falls apart so quickly or it's like the lead up and then it just like completely fizzles out. It's rough.
So a week later, on December 21st, Fort Smith police held a press conference to provide an update on the case. And at that time, they disclosed that Melissa had last been seen arguing with a man in the parking lot of the bowling world on the night that she went missing.
the individual was described as a quote black male probably in his early 20s with short hair

a medium build, and approximately six feet tall. After three weeks of dead-end leads and very little evidence, the local authorities were starting to express their concern that something pretty terrible could have happened to Melissa.
Yeah, the kidnapping angle is seeming less likely at this point. Yeah, definitely, as time time is going but they assured reporters that they did remain committed to the case sergeant david overton said it's becoming frustrating but we continue to look for quality leads and we hope to still find her alive but again when that much time goes by it's it becomes less likely and one thing about this case is like i was saying like they dropped everything There were other cases being worked on at this point in time and multiple police officers dropped those cases that were like obviously important but of lesser importance.
Yeah. And everybody committed their time to finding Melissa.
Oh, wow. So by that time, two large full-color billboards had been donated in town showing a picture of Melissa alongside the number for Crimestoppers.

And the Fort Smith Bank was offering a $30,000 reward for any information that would have led to her safe return, but neither yielded productive results. That's so crazy to me.
Yeah. That's a big reward.
So $30,000 in 1994 or 1995 would be about $64,000 today. So almost more than double.
Damn. That's crazy.
That's crazy. A few weeks later on January 13th, 1995, investigators got the break that they've been waiting for, but it definitely was not the outcome that anybody was hoping for.
Oh, no. At about 9.30 a.m., two hunters in Ozark, Arkansas, about 40 miles from Fort Smith, reported to franklin county sheriff's officer that they had been walking through the woods and they came upon what they thought was a mannequin lying face down in the woods about 30 feet from the main road according to the hunters they had actually been out in those same woods and walked the same exact road the day before but they didn't recall seeing anything at the time that's interesting she's been missing for weeks at this point like over three weeks close to a month that's interesting yeah detective rider and his team along with several crime scene technicians went out to the spot in the ozark national forest where melissa's body had been discovered and while they couldn't be positive it was melissa at the time they were reasonably confident that they had found their missing person and she would ultimately be conclusively identified through dental records oh that's awful yeah melissa's body this is so sad was lying nude in a muddy area she had a non-fatal wound wound on the side of her head from what appeared to be a blow from a heavy object and based on the location rider and the other investigators theorized that the killer was probably local yeah or at least somebody who had frequented the area often enough to be familiar with this particular particular section of the forest so possibly a hiker or a camper yeah like that as they surveyed the crime scene investigators also noticed something strange there was a human sized indentation in the earth behind two large rocks just several feet away from where her body had been discovered.
So they theorized that the killer had actually initially placed the body behind the rock after the murder occurred, like probably closer to when it occurred, which would explain why hunters hadn't seen her the previous day. What? So he moved her? They think that he did move her.
What the fuck? There's two sides. There's some people who think he moved her and then we'll talk about what the other people think because why the killer would have returned and moved the body about 20 feet was a total mystery yeah my only theory is that they were feeling some kind of something about the fact that she hadn't been found yet like stranger things have happened yeah I don't know.
There were also visible finger marks on her wrists where the killer grabbed her body and dragged it from one location to the other. If the killer moved the body, then I think they did so because they were frustrated that she hadn't been found yet.
I was actually just thinking about what I had just said. I don't think they felt bad.
Yeah, I don't think there was, I want her to be found because you don't leave your murder victim nude, you know, in the middle of the forest just begin to be like, oh, I feel bad. I want them to.
No, I think they wanted her to be found. They just didn't want to be found themselves.
I agree with you. On the other side of things, some investigators believed that it was equally possible that the animals in the forest had moved the body.
But there was visible finger marks on her wrists from dragging. Right.
And that would be... That'd be tough, I think, for animals to move a full body.
Yeah. I mean, it's happened, I suppose.
But usually it's pieces of a body. I hate to be that crass.
I know it's gruesome, but it's just reality. Yeah.
And I don't know.

I feel like you would be able to tell.

Well, and you would be able, obviously, like you've done autopsies, so you know.

Yeah.

They can tell the difference between fresh finger marks and finger mark indentations that actually happened.

Yeah, which it sounds like they were saying this looks like it was more fresh.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Jinx. Everyone has that friend who seems kind of perfect.
For Patti, that friend was Desiree. Until one day, I texted her and she was not getting the text.
So I went to Instagram. She has no Instagram anymore.
And Facebook, no Facebook anymore. Desiree was gone.
And there was one person who knew the answer. I am a spiritual person, a magical person, a witch.
A gorgeous Brazilian influencer called Cat Torres, but who was hiding a secret. From Wondery, based on my smash hit podcast from Brazil, comes a new series, Don't Cross Cat, about a search that led me to a mystery in a Texas suburb.
I'm calling to check on the two missing Brazilian girls. Maybe get some undercover crew there.
The family are freaking out. They are lost.

I'm Chico Felitti. You can listen to Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, weirdos. I'm Mike Corey.
And like you, I'm drawn to true crime, creepy history, and all things spooky. If you particularly enjoyed Ash and Elena's coverage of the USS Indianapolis, where 900 sailors battled rough seas, sharks, dehydration, and madness in the open ocean, you need to check out my podcast, Against the Odds.
We dive deep into this survival story across four full episodes, revealing details you haven't heard yet. Each week on Against the Odds, we put you in the shoes of real survivors, from the Thai cave rescue to Somali pirate hostages to the Donner Party.
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Start your free trial in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify today. State Police Lieutenant Dale Best said, we believed the body had been moved.
It looked like by animals. We did find the location where she had been in the wooded area, and it looks she'd been there for quite some time now this is also just coming to me in the moment on the other side of things i wonder if they said that it was animals who moved to the body because they're not going to want to sit there and say that the killer was in those woods like right under their noses a few days ago yeah when they can't find him like he went there twice so it's easier to say that animal it is easier to say than like you just said admit that he came back and had free reign to yeah move the whole thing right you know who knows who knows but just a day or two earlier and this is this will give you chills this freaked me out and it's just awful two days earlier or sorry just a day or earlier, an anonymous caller had left a message at the Fort Smith Major Crimes Unit.

And an older woman with a thick southern accent can be heard saying,

go ahead and tell them what you found.

And then a younger voice, which was probably male, they said,

can be heard saying, no, I can't.

And then the call just disconnected.

What the fuck? Just a day or two before Melissa was found melissa's body was found what yeah in the woods that day when they did finally discover her detective rider couldn't help but wonder if somebody had found melissa's body before those hunters did but didn't want to get involved i think that is absolutely a possibility and they never were able to figure out where that call came from or who it was oh my god this makes me so mad yeah or i should say no other information came out about it but other than the body in the mud and the impressions uh the human-sized impression in the dirt behind the rocks the scene was devoid of evidence or anything unusual that might have helped point them in the right direction and her killer took her her clothing and her jewelry. What the fuck? She was found with nothing.
Wow. Yeah.
There was no sign of her clothes or personal items anywhere. Technicians did take samples of the soil and the natural debris from the location, and Melissa's body was then moved to Little Rock to be autopsied by the state medical examiner.
In his autopsy report, he listed the cause of death as asphyxiation by strangulation and noted that leaves and soil from the area were found in her airway. Oh my God.
Indicating that she had, quote, been strangled face down and she inhaled debris from the forest floor. So she...
Holy shit. This was brutal.
And she was killed out there. Out there, yeah.
She was brought from one location to the other.

Because I figured she was killed somewhere else and brought there.

No, it sounds like she was killed in the forest.

Holy shit.

Which is horrifying.

Yeah.

Based on the evidence collected during the autopsy, investigators concluded that Melissa's

killer had, like we were just saying, abducted her from the Bowling World parking lot and

then taken her to that area off the logging road. She was also sexually assaulted and then strangled.
So the news of the discovery of Melissa's body in the Ozark woods came as a shock to everybody who obviously were out there doing the work, passing on flyers, all the while hoping that she would be found alive. But for some, it was a disappointing end to a frustrating mystery.
Fort Smith detective Clay Thomas said, I hate to say it, but finding her body was the first break we've had in this case. At least it gives us a direction.
Before this, we didn't have that. So I guess you can, I guess at least there was that.
It's like, it's such a double-edgedged sword because obviously the aim was to find Melissa alive and bring her home this is the last thing you want to find but at least finding someone's body can give you anything you know like it gives you any because before that you're just kind of blind especially with no security cameras know, this isn't the time of like digital footprints and shit. Right.
And for her family to actually have a place to go visit her where they know she's laid to rest like that. Which again, means a lot to me.
The last thing you want to happen. Of course.
In these scenarios. But I'm glad they were at least able to have something to go on at this point.
Mm-hmm. It's just awful.
It is. Reverend Ed Sauss, I think it's Saussier, from the family's church conveyed similar sentiments, telling a reporter, this is a difficult time, but the family feels a little relief and finally knowing something.
Yeah, because I imagine that the unknown must be just completely unbearable. Because we've said it before, your mind fills in the blanks.
And a lot of times that's, you're coming up with somehow even darker things sometimes, you know. But unfortunately, both John and Marianne Witt passed away in 2004 and then 2011, respectively.
So they never got the answers that they just waited the rest of their lives to hear. Oh, that makes me so sad.
They never got it. Now, in a city of nearly 300,000 residents, Fort Smith obviously had its fair share of violent crime.
In fact, around the time that Melissa Witt disappeared, there were a number of other young women who either disappeared or were also murdered. In 1995, just nine months after Melissa was killed, another Fort Smith woman named Lori Murchison went missing after she was released from jail on a public intoxication charge.
She was on her way to pick up her paycheck with a plan to return back to the jail and bail out her boyfriend, but she never returned and has never been seen since. Damn.
Just vanished into thin air. Those are always the scariest, man.
Yeah. A year later, in 1996, Fort Smith resident Summer Wilkinson disappeared, her remains were later discovered near a racetrack in Oklahoma.
In 2000, a man named Jonathan Cole was convicted of her death. And at the time, he was already serving a life sentence for the 1997 murder of a 13-year-old Fort Smith girl whose remains were also found in Oklahoma.
Holy shit. The most alarming of these incidents occurred on June 9th, 1995, when six-year-old Morgan Nick disappeared from a Little League game in Alma, Arkansas, just 20 miles from Fort Smith, so not far at all.
No. Morgan had gone off with some friends to catch fireflies, which just absolutely ruins you.
She was last seen standing by her own parents' car, talking to an unknown man before she disappeared. A few weeks before her disappearance, there were actually two separate incidents of attempted kidnappings in the area, including one where a man tried to pull a four-year-old girl into his own pickup truck in Alma, and another in which a man tried to abduct a nine-year-old girl from a convenience store in Fort Smith.
Holy shit. Yeah, it was a dangerous area.
My god. Now, despite the obvious difference in their ages, investigators at the time did consider that Melissa's killer might also be responsible for the attempted kidnapping of the girls in Alma and Fort Smith and the disappearance of Morgan Nick.
My god. Scary.
That's horrifying. Scary.
Despite the surprising number of assaults, attempted abductions, and murders of young women in this area, investigators on Melissa's case had pretty much nothing to work with, very little to work with, and even less luck when it came to finding leads in june of 1995 they set up roadblocks in the area uh the arkansas state police did in the hopes that a passing motorist might have seen or heard anything that could lead them to help find melissa's killer or help them find morgan nick lieutenant dale best told a reporter we will follow leads until we've exhausted them. Somewhere out there, there is that one lead.
Somewhere, a person knows this suspect. The information is out there if we can just reach out to the right person and get them to call.
But despite their best efforts, the roadblocks turned up zero useful leads. Which is nuts.
That's crazy to me. girls going missing ending up dead like attempted kidnappings and nobody knows anything that's the thing they're not like these people who are doing this are not that smart no no like they know people they've said things they've done things like come on and people just don't want to get people don't get involved people don't want to get involved especially in like especially in like smaller towns.
Oh, yeah. You see it so much more often.
It's a very different mindset. There's a whole like, you know, set of small town politics that comes into play.
Yes, big time. That's a perfect way to say it.
Mm-hmm. It wasn't until nearly a year later in April 1996 that investigators finally got their best lead in Melissa Witt's murder case.
Among the stronger suspects in her murder was a local man named William Taylor, who Detective Ryder described as somebody with a, quote, history of sexual abuse and violence toward women and young girls. But the problem was, after warrants were issued for his arrest in September of 1995, he went on the run, and law enforcement officials hadn't been able to find him.
But finally, in April of 1996, they used phone records to track him to Mulberry, Arkansas, and he was finally arrested on those 95 warrants. Good.
According to Ryder, quote, Taylor was wanted for questioning in the Witt case because several coincidences make him a possible suspect. Taylor is known to have frequented bowling alleys in the region and was living in the area at the time Witt disappeared, about 10 miles from where her body was discovered.
Oh shit. Yeah.
Unfortunately, investigators were never able to connect Taylor to Melissa Witt's case or the Morgan Nick case. He was only one of a handful of suspects who investigators focused on very intensely after the discovery of Melissa's body in the woods.
The earliest suspect was actually the Good Samaritan who helped Melissa after her car wouldn't start on the night of her disappearance. Under the circumstances, the timing of his appearance was pretty suspicious to investigators, but that man was interviewed several times by investigators and ultimately cleared.
at the time Melissa's body was discovered, anyone with a criminal past and connection to Melissa, no matter how trivial, seemed like a promising suspect. But as the years passed and the case evolved, those early suspects were pretty much more than likely just pretty desperate grasps at finding any leads.
Yeah, I mean, they had to. They had to.
They had to go for anything. When you don't have anything, you have to chase down what you can.
You do. Since then, several other suspects have emerged who quickly became a focus of the investigation and are actually far more serious than the Good Samaritan and Roger Wood.
Yeah. Like, you understand why they chased them down.
Of course. But these next people we're going to talk about are actually like, make you scratch your head well.

In 1999, Marcus Blair, a Fort Smith reporter, was covering the crime beat for the Times record when he came across an interesting story from a Texas paper about a man named Larry Swearengin. At the time, Swearengin had been arrested for the murder of 19-year-old Melissa Trotter, who he was accused of sexually assaulting strangling and dump dumping in the sam houston national forest in texas so literally the same exact thing same exact thing even dumping the body in a national same victim profile same victim profile and actually it's same name if you look at a picture of melissa if both Melissa's, they bear a striking resemblance.

When Blair brought the story to Detective Ryder's attention, which like, again, see something, say something, you love to see it.

The detective felt like he had finally gotten a break in the case that he'd been desperately seeking.

Yeah.

And they do look a lot alike.

They look a lot alike. When you put them next to each other.

And around the same age.

Unfortunately murdered in the same manner, assaulted. Placed in the same dumping locations.
Dumping locations. Similar dumping locations.
Yeah, like forest. Things looked even more promising when Ryder discovered that Larry had been in Arkansas visiting his grandparents just days before Melissa went missing.
Oh, come on. Add that to the fact that he had a history of kidnapping and sexual assault of women, and he was starting to look like a pretty strong suspect in Melissa's case.
Now, despite these coincidences, very strong coincidences between the cases, Swearengin maintained his innocence in the Witt case until the day of his execution in fall of 2019. For years, investigators tried to get him to cooperate with an interview and sought any evidence that could tie him to Melissa's death, but he refused to speak to them and they were never able to produce anything of substance.
He feels like a really good suspect to me. He does.
And the fact that he refused to speak about it just wouldn't talk about it and was like, I'm being executed anyway. like what the fuck yeah another prominent suspect in melissa's abduction and murder was convicted rapist travis dale crouch at the time of melissa's disappearance he was working as a handyman at a church camp not far from where melissa's body was discovered okay yeah fucking rapist yeah really okay working at a church awesome and it far from where her body was discovered.
A convicted rapist working at a church camp. Yeah, fantastic.
Great. Hey, weirdos.
I'm Lindsey Graham from the podcast American History Tellers. And if you're still reeling from Ash and Elena's episode on the Boston molasses disaster, and you want to dive even deeper, you're in luck.
My show doesn't usually venture too far into the spooky or creepy, but we've dedicated two full episodes to uncovering fascinating details about this bizarre molasses catastrophe. From the company's negligence to the victim's harrowing stories, we explore how this strange event reshaped industrial safety laws and left an indelible mark on Boston's history.
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Start your free trial on the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify today. He had grown up in Ozark and spent the late 1980s riding around the country with several motorcycle gangs before being sent to prison in the early 90s for stabbing a man in Minneapolis.

In October 1994, he was released from prison and returned to Ozark to live with his parents.

Having grown up in the area, he was very intimately familiar with the region, and he had actually been seen driving in the area of the bowling world at the time of Melissa's disappearance. In interviews with law enforcement, he has no alibi.
He had no alibi for the night that Melissa went missing and couldn't account for his whereabouts during the weeks that followed. Oh, shit.
Yeah. In 1998, investigators took hair, fiber, and stain samples from the car that he was driving at the time but the test results were inconclusive oh i fucking hate that otherwise he has denied playing any role in melissa's death but again he also looks like a good one another strong suspect in 1997 he was convicted of sexually assaulting a 20 year old woman in broomfield colorado and in this case he kidnapped the woman in her own car and drove her to a remote location in the mountains where he violently sexually assaulted her this victim was able to escape after he passed out in the front seat oh my god and at that time she obviously reported the assault to police as of now he still maintains his innocence and is serving a 64-year sentence in Colorado.
Holy shit. But maintains his innocence as far as the Melissa Witt case.
With each new suspect that emerged in this case, it seemed like investigators were getting closer to finding the identity of Melissa's killer finally, but they were never able to make any actual case against any individual. But there was always one man that many investigators strongly suspected of involvement in melissa's murder and more than any other suspect he had the criminal history to justify their opinion really yes in 2000 detectives in arkansas arrested charles ray vines that name might sound familiar yeah he was arrested after he violently attacked a 16-year-old girl, breaking into her home, raping her, and almost killing her.
Holy shit. Not long after that arrest, the investigation uncovered additional evidence that proved he was the notorious serial killer that the press had dubbed the River Valley Killer.
Oh, okay. He was responsible for the brutal killings of 89 year old lily jones in 1993 i was like why did i know that name and the murder of 58 year old wanita woford two months later a little over a year later a local fort smith resident danny bennett confessed to those murders and was actually sent to prison for them but whatever relief that brought was short--lived because in August of that year, while Danny Bennett was sitting in jail, or prison rather, 74-year-old Ruth Henderson was murdered and the killing and crime scene were remarkably similar to the murders of Jones and Wofford.
So the murder of Ruth Henderson was determined to have been committed by the same killer, and authorities were then forced to let Danny Bennett go.

It wasn't until five years later, when Vines was arrested for this assault on the teenage girl, that investigators finally started connecting those previous cases to him, and he was arrested.

After his arrest, he made a deal with the prosecutor's office in which he agreed to provide details of his previous murders in exchange for their agreeing not to pursue the death penalty, at which point he confessed to the other murders.

Holy shit. Yeah.

He had lived in Fort Smith for many years, including the period that Melissa Witt disappeared and was killed in.

An investigator strongly suspected him of being Melissa's killer.

But when he was directly confronted about the murder after his arrest, he denied abducting or killing Melissa. Given that he had confessed to killing the other women, it really wouldn't make a lot of sense for him to deny Melissa's murder if he was responsible.
But law enforcement still remains suspicious. According to Rob Allen, who was one of the FBI agents who pursued the case in 2019, he said,

There was a lady who had emailed a detective she worked with charlie vines's mother and charlie vines sometimes would show up to his mother's work and that witness reported she saw him wearing a bowling league shirt of some sort oh so that's interesting that is very interesting the report about the bowling league shirt is obviously circumstantial at best but it was just one of several things about charlie vines charles vines that made him a strong suspect he worked about eight minutes from where melissa's body was discovered was known to be very familiar with the area like i said he lived there most of his life and was very familiar with the logging trails in ozark there's not big one. Which not a lot of people are.
Yeah. In 2021, 27 years after Melissa's murder, an investigatory team of FBI agents and local law enforcement officers were sent out to the area where Melissa's body was discovered in the Ozark forest, and they brought several tracking dogs with them.
And despite having nearly three decades having passed, those dogs located an old mattress in the woods with charles ravine's dna on it shut the fuck up as well as several old cambridge cigarette butts containing dna what and this is crazy when the original investigators processed the scene in 1994 when melissa's body was found, they located several Cambridge cigarette butts right near where her body was discovered. This, again, this feels like it's it.
Feels so strong. Yeah.
He was ultimately convicted and sentenced to three life terms for the murders of Lily Jones, Juanita Woford, and Ruth Henderson. but despite the best efforts of FBI and local law enforcement, he refused to talk on the record about Melissa Witt.
What the fuck? And he died in prison in September 2019. And he is a disgusting looking man, just so everybody knows.
He is gross. He's heinous.
So as of 2024, Melissa Witt's murder still remains unsolved.

If you have any information regarding the murder of Melissa Witt, you're asked to please call the Fort Smith Police Department at 479-709-5116. Or you can email them at info at fortsmithpd.org.
This is just such a frustrating case. such a frustrating case because every time they felt like they got close and that they had their

guy it was just that the person wouldn't cooperate and they didn't have anything else to hold them there on that or to to completely you know yeah seal the deal it's like there's a couple of really good yeah like i feel like he's in there for me charles Ray Vines and i would say larry larry yeah larry swearingen are probably those are my two and i was really stuck on larry until i found that uh the cigarette butts charles the kind that's charles ray vines smoked were right near the body that's very very interesting and an old mattress with his dna on it it's like why was there there an old mattress out there? Yeah. And that's the thing.
It's like, what the fuck? Yeah. Bizarre.
Yeah. And just such a tragic, tragic case.
Oh, it's an awful, awful case. The fact that her parents died not knowing.
Yeah. Not having any answers of what happened to their 19-year-old daughter.
No, that makes me sick. Who had everything going for her.
Yeah. Everything going for her.
She came from a good family. She was beautiful.
She was well-liked. She was going to be a dental hygienist.
Involved in her community. She was doing the damn thing.
Yeah. Yeah.
And just went to the bowling alley to hang out with her mom one night after work. That makes me sick.
So sad. It really does.
So guys, if anybody listening knows anybody with any information or if you have any information, again, the number that I provided and the email, you can submit an email confidentially. And again, submit a tip to that number.
Yes. It's completely confidential.
If you know anyone, if you saw anything, if your family member remembers something, if you're from the area. Do you ever heard anything at all? If you ever heard a damn thing, it's like these kind of things.
I'm like, this can be solved. Absolutely.
This can be solved. 100%.
I want it to happen. I know.
I'm glad that we did an unsolved case at the top of the year. Yes.
I like to. Let's start the year.
Yes. With some fresh years on it.
Yes. Let's get it solved.
But you know what? If the lady of the dunes, the boy in the box, the Somerton man, if all those things can be solved, I mean, decades and decades and decades later, this can be solved. But yeah, no, I completely agree with you.
Yeah. And so guys, remember, see something, say something.
Yeah. We love you.
Be nice to yourselves. Be nice to yourselves.

And keep it weird.

But not so weird that if you see something, you don't say something.

And not so weird that if you have a tip, you don't submit it. Because you could help a whole entire family.

And to get justice for a wonderful woman who was killed by a terrible monster. Thank you.
Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
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You know those creepy stories that give you goosebumps? The ones that make you really question what's real? Well, what if I told you that some of the strangest, darkest, and most mysterious stories are not found in haunted houses or abandoned forests, but instead in hospital rooms and doctor's offices? Hi, I'm Mr. Bollin, the host of Mr.
Bollin's Medical Mysteries. And each week on my podcast, you can expect to hear stories about bizarre illnesses no one can explain, miraculous recoveries that shouldn't have happened, and cases so baffling they stumped even the best doctors.
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