Episode 621: Fan Favorite: Bobby Mackey's Music World

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Start your dog's new year off right with Ollie. Hey, weirdos.
Happy Thanksgiving. Yay.
Giving thanks. Giving thanks.
We don't do this often, so you're probably like, what the fuck is happening? But we decided to re-air one of our listener favorites this thanksgiving so that we could spend time with those we love and hold near and dear and so that i can personally stuff my face with everything that elena is cooking this holiday season exactly and so i can cook the massive amount of food that i always cook exactly so we hope you enjoy this we hope that you are with those that you hold near and dear.

And we wish you a very happy Thanksgiving.

Because we're thankful for you.

You're beautiful.

Without further ado, you look like Linda Evangelista.

You do.

Without further ado, Bobby Mackey's haunted shit giving thanks.

Hey, weirdos. I'm Ash.
i'm alayna, this is Morbid, and I'm Elena, and I was going to be like, girl, we did that. We did that already.
We were past that. Girl, we did the intro the intro no i'm just looking at audible books oh what were you what were you looking at i think i'm gonna get salem's lot because i just want to hear it now stephen king mikey was just listening to it on audible and i was like oh huh i've read it i just want to hear it now that's cool does uh does he narrate it uh yeah this isn't one of those ads that like you stick into a show No, it's literally not.
We're just actually talking about it. Oh, he narrates part of it.
Oh, that's cool.

Yeah. read it uh yeah this isn't one of those ads that like you stick into a show no it's literally not talking about it oh he narrates part of it oh that's cool yeah the beginning of it sounds like like he's like the beginning the beginning you should listen to um pet cemetery because you know who does it who michael c hall shut up dexter oh i was like i will listen to that all right i'm I'm on a Stephen King binge recently.
Yeah, you've been listening to the writing.

Yeah. You've been listening to the writing.
Yeah. His writing on writing.
He has a very soothing voice because it's been in the car a few times when I've been like driving around town. I like listening to him.
You know? I like that. But that's where I am.
I don't really know where I am right now. Ain't that the truth for all of us.
We got some crystals in here that are like helping with that energy. But I think, what? Why are you laughing at me? I think that they're sucking my energy a little bit.
But like not in a bad way. You know what I'm saying, crystal girlies and boys? Yeah.
There's crystal girlies and boys that are saying, yes. Yes.
I feel that. I hear you.
I hear you. I see you.
Crystal girls, gays and lays. There you go.
I love you guys. Okay.
Well, do we have anything going on? No. Do you? What do you have? I have the paperback version of my book coming out July 26th.
I would say that's something going on, you little bitch. You should go buy that.
Go pre-order it. It's fun.
Paperbacks are great. You can stick them in your bag and you can flip-flop them around.
Yeah? Who doesn't love a flip-flop? And it's got like a fun little insert in it. And...
What? It has the first, well, a chapter of the sequel in it. Oh, and I got to actually pick that.
Yeah. I like I gave my advice a little bit.
Yeah. So it's got a chapter of the sequel in it.
That's cool. So that's pretty awesome.
And it comes out July 26th. And we'll be in New York the day that it comes out doing like a fun little chat, right? Yeah, a little event event.
I don't even know what we're doing. I just I'm just like, yeah, I'll be there.
We're just chatting about the book. Yeah.
Just like by ourselves. I can do that.
Yeah. By ourselves? No, I'm just kidding.
Oh. I was trying to make it seem like we were just going to be like hanging out talking about the book.
And New York happened to be there. Just vibes.
Yeah. But no, it's an event.
You're funny. But Paperback Book has a chapter of the new one.
And the new one will be coming out in the near future. Hey-o.
I've gotten to read a few sneakies because I'm awesome. Because I'm awesome.
It makes me think of my friend Marissa. If you're listening, hi, I love you.
And it's really fucking good. It's also really creepy.
And randomly the other day, Alina just sat next to me on the couch and was like, can I try something on you? And I was like, probably not. And then she essentially was like, what if I did this? And like manipulated my hand in a weird way.
I just wanted to be able to describe something in an accurate way. So I decided to do it to Ash.
It's me, your personal test dummy. You'll find out.
Once the book is out, I'll tell you what scene it was that I sent. Cast your vote at whatdidshedo2ash.com.
Oh, God. What a weird website that would be yeah actually i don't know why you just gave the world that website i don't know about that website it's not real ash.com that's a scary right i don't like it came from your head it's like in mean girls but he's like that's a scary mask that's.
That's a scary mask, bro. Well, it kind of works out that we're in a silly giving mood.
Because I have a haunting today. A haunting, you say? I have the haunting of one Bobby Mackey's music world.
Whoa. Whoa.
Everybody's like, are you guys on drugs today? No. No.
It's crazy um so i'm just gonna start at the beginning does that sound good to you that's always an awesome place to start fantastic this is a fun story and it's also a scary story and there's also some parts that are not fun awesome i love all that way heavier on the scary oh so we're gonna start by talking about Bobby Mackey. He opened Bobby Mackey's Music World in 1978.
And when country singer Bobby Mackey opened the nightclub that he named after himself, his main goal was basically just to make it like a tight-knit, small little nightclub where people would come, hang out, vibe, dance, just enjoy some country music. Just like quaint goals.
Quaint goals. But by 1978, he had spent more than 12 years traveling around the country, either with his own country western band or as an employee with the railroad.
And at that point, he was like very, very ready to settle down after those 12 years. He had been born and raised in a super small town, Concord, Kentucky.
The latest population is literally 19. Whoa.
As of 2022. I looked it up the other day and its latest population, again, for the people in the back, is 19.
19. 19.
That's not even old enough to drink. Nope.
Nope. Not at Bobby Mackey's.
Nope. But so he was from that small town and he was kind of ready to get back to that small town lifestyle after all the traveling and everything.
And there was like a few reasons for that sudden urge to settle aside from the, you know, traveling over more than a decade. He was now married and his wife janet was actually pregnant and like i said he really wanted to open his own nightclub he told producers from discovery channel it was either move to nashville or get my own place oh but it turned out he didn't have to look too far from home to find the perfect spot for his new club because a couple years earlier an old roadhouse on route nine in wilder kentucky closed down and as it turned out it had actually previously been used as a nightclub huh so it was already set up for you know look at that nightclub a nightclub if you will it was set up pretty perfectly but or at the very least it was a good start so bobby told reporters in my mind's's eye, I could see it all.
I could see the crowd. I could see people dancing.
So there was nothing going to stop me. I had to have the place.
Had to have it. But like apparently, Bobby didn't see and couldn't sense that the place was totally and completely haunted.
Oh. Haunted as fuck.
So the property, which actually still sits and is like open, at 44 Licking Pike, it has had a very long and very legendy history that started way before it was a nightclub, a roadhouse, or really anything. When it was first purchased, it was actually home to a slaughterhouse and a meatpacking plant.
That'll do it. In what was known at the time as Finchtown.
It wasn't even wilder yet. Oh.
Now the plant was built in 1850, so that's how far we're going back. And it closed a few decades later.
But something about it, like something about the property, kept people in town talking even years after it had closed. A lot of people felt like the area was either haunted or used by their local Satan worshippers slash occultists.
Oh, my favorite thing ever. Because duh.
Yeah, of course. And they figured that these groups of people would find it a great spot to use for their rituals because there actually really was a well that had been built back when it was a slaughterhouse.
Like back when the slaughterhouse was running that collected all the animal fluids specifically the blood oh and that well and the legend surrounding it would later play a huge part in actually a murder the night the 1896 murder of one pearl brian oh this is a real story oh damn and this is really sad in 18 sad. In 1896, you said? 1896.
Pearl was a 22-year-old girl from Indiana, and late in January of 1896, she told her parents that she'd gotten a telegram from a family friend in Indianapolis. I said it.
I can never say that. Indianapolis? I'm not going to try again because I already said it.
But so she got that telegram from that place, and these family friends asked her to come visit. And she was like, hell yeah, sounds awesome.
So she set off on her trip, and just sadly, days later, on February 1st, her body was found decapitated. Oh, my God.
In a large field less than 600 yards from Fort St. Thomas and very close by to the abandoned slaughterhouse.

So the coroner determined that Pearl had actually been drugged with cocaine just prior to her

death.

And the cause of death was obviously the decapitation.

Oh, God.

And they believed that she had been killed where her body was discovered in that field.

Unfortunately, the coroner also said that Pearl would have been alive when the decapitation started. Yes.
So 1896 investigators started trying to put the pieces of the case together and they found out that the last time Pearl had been seen alive was on the evening of January 31st and she was spotted with two men, Scott Jackson and Alonzo Walling now the last time the three of the the three of them excuse me were spotted was in a cab from Cincinnati that was headed back in the direction of Fort Thomas oh no where she was found now the detectives are pretty sure that these two guys had something to do with Pearl's murder and they were right on the right track.

When Scott Jackson was arrested, he told the police that he and Pearl had secretly been in a relationship for the past several months and that recently he had found out that she was pregnant and he was not exactly pleased about this.

I just want to put a trigger warning here because this is going to be a little bit tough going forward just for this one section.

Just a trigger warning for loss of pregnancy slash miscarriage stuff thanks you're welcome so he was like i said not happy that she was pregnant and suggested that pearl try to induce her own miscarriage by drinking i think is it ergot ergot yeah ergot which is a fungus and rye mixed together that's what they they tried to blame the Salem Witch Trials on. Oh, shit.
You're right. I forgot about that.
So she obviously refused this because she was like, I'm not going to do that. And she refused it multiple times.
Like he kept being like, no, this is what you need to do. Like we're not having a baby.
You need to drink this. And she's like, no, I'm not doing that.
No, she gets to decide there, friend. Yeah, her body, her choice.
Yeah. And it's like you don't have to be a part of this baby's life if you don't want to.
Go away. Bye.
See ya. Never.
So she kept refusing, kept refusing. And finally, he sent her himself to Cincinnati to have an abortion performed.
Now, from the story, it sounds like she either didn't go or did, but didn't go through with the abortion. Okay.
So on the night of January 31st, Scott and Alonzo there invited Pearl out and they slipped cocaine into her drink, hoping that that would cause a miscarriage. Oh my God.
Two fucking assholes. Now that didn't seem to work as far as they were concerned, which I was like, how would you really know? I was just going to say.
But they didn't give it any time. And they decided their only option left now would be to murder pearl and the unborn baby now the reason that they wanted to decapitate her was because they believed that she wouldn't be able to be identified without her head um which like i know it's 1896 and like obviously you know certain things aren't available but like wow okay wow and that's just, and that's just fucked up.
It's super fucked up.

And like, you loved this girl enough to have a relationship with her.

My God.

To get her pregnant.

Like, Jesus.

Seriously.

So once they killed her, they dumped her body in that field outside of Fort Thomas.

But when it came down to it, they both ended up giving different stories about what had happened to Pearl's head, what they had done with it.

One of them said that they threw it into a reservoir on their way back to Cincinnati. Oh, my God.
Can you imagine? Which I don't think is what happened. And the other one said that they had buried her head in a sandbar near Dayton.
Now, it doesn't seem like either of those two stories are the case, but they never found Pearl's head. She had to be buried without her head.
Are you fucking kidding me? Detectives believed and suspected that they had probably destroyed her head in an incinerator because Scott Jackson was a student at a dental school and had access to that incinerator. Holy shit.
It fucked up. That's wild.
So they ended up being executed, obviously, for Pearl's murder on March 20th, 1897. And you would think that that would put an end to the story.
But people still were talking about the mystery surrounding the case ever since. Eventually the talk of the case would slow down, but for a while people were heavily focused on this.
Yeah, this is huge. Right.
So Scott, Alonzo, and pearl have all been worked into the legends and the stories surrounding the abandoned slaughterhouse and then everything else it would come to be now some legends claim that they were satanists and that pearl had been murdered during a ritual ritual sacrifice and those legends say that the reason pearl's head was never found was because it was thrown into the well of the slaughterhouse, which was like super, super deep. Yeah.
But by the 1920s, they decided, you know what, maybe we should fucking tear down that old slaughterhouse because damn, if it really is being used for rituals and decapitations, we should get rid of it. Yeah, probably.
Yeah. now like I said people weren't really talking about the legend of what happened to Pearl as often because they were more focused on modern

things like prohibition and gambling. Yeah.
Fun things. Old sport.
Well, prohibition's not fun. But in 1933, just as prohibition was about to end, also I should acknowledge that you said old sport because that was funny.
That's okay. I felt you understand it in your soul.
I did. Yeah.
I love Gatsby. But just as it was about to end, a man named Ernest Buck Brady bought the Roadhouse and opened it up as a restaurant and casino.
And he ended up naming it the Primrose, which I think is really pretty. That is pretty.
Right? Now, in no time, the place was hopping. People loved hanging out there.
but more importantly they liked spending their money there.

Now, that latter part

obviously brought attention

from the mob. Oh, that whole

thing. Oh yeah, that whole thing.

Eventually, they

were actually able to pressure

Buck into selling the club to them.

So the mob took over. Damn.

The mob is like, mine. Mine.

Money pit, I'll take it. I'll take it.
So Frank Screw Andrews. Yep.
They called him Screw. Yeah, they did.
Of course. Don't ask why.
Absolutely. He managed the now rebranded club that they were calling the Latin Quarter.
Ooh. Sexy.
And it gained even more popularity. Now, in the 1950s, it was actually one of the most popular illegal gambling dens in the area.
And it went on that way for 11 years. Wow.
Right? An illegal gambling den? That's a good run. That's a good run.
I don't know what the typical run is. Me neither, but that feels like a good one.
Feels pretty great. I mean, over a decade.
Yeah. Let's go.
Like a middle schooler? But let's not go because yeah legalities yeah you know there's that but in 1961 the residents of the town were like hey uh criminal activity is a little too rife here and law enforcement like maybe could you crack down on that a bit yeah and law enforcement was like yeah we we should probably do that so they did and they closed down the club all right and so it sat empty for a few more years until it reopened in the 70s as a hard rock cafe. Hell yeah.
And it's really funny because like I feel like everybody's been to a hard rock cafe. 100%.
And usually they just have like, you know, cool memorabilia and a good burger. Yeah.
This hard rock cafe was hard rock. Hell yeah, it was.
Because if the residents were uncomfy before, they did not realize that things were going to get a whole lot worse. According to the Cincinnati Inquirer, the hard rock catered to a little bit of a rougher crowd of people made up of, quote, all people from out of town with an interest in live hard rock music.
Hell yeah. I feel like it's just a bunch of like barbs from Trolls World Tour.

Oh, my God.

You are such a mom and I love you for that.

I was like, barbs.

And then I thought you were going down like a Stranger Things route.

And I was like, I'm not getting it.

And then you said trolls.

I went Trolls World Tour on us.

And I said trolls.

And then I was like, oh.

And then you knew.

You knew.

I fucking love Barb.

It's just a bunch of barbs being like, let's rock. We have the rock string.
Hell yeah. Let's go, brothers.
Now, but that was like the weird thing about this property. No matter what it was operating as, a roadhouse, the primrose, the Latin Quarter, the hard rock, there was always some kind of criminal element attached to it.
You know, it it's just like that's that's its thing it was just like criminal it's this place is just like it's kind of my thing to have criminal elements always it's kind of like alexis from shit's creek yeah it's a little bit criminal it's a little bit criminal when it drives its car but apparently though it's time as the hard rock was the most violent oh i didn't see that coming nor did i but i thought the mob would have been me too but maybe that was just less reported on here i am learning things you know i'm sure that it probably was when it was the mob but we just don't know much about that and i'm not going to talk about it no way well at the police anyways's why we know about this. They write things down.
Reports. But they were constantly going down there to break up fights, to respond to accidents, or worse, to investigate crime scenes.
Oof. Lots of deaths going on.
Yeah. The Wilder police chief.
Oh, we're getting intense now. It is.
The Wilder police chief, Robert Schindler, I believe it is, told reporters, we have had an awful lot of trouble down there, but most of it happens in the parking lot.

Oh.

Now, by the time the club, like the Hard Rock Cafe, closed at the end of 1977, several murders had taken place in the parking lot.

Oh, wow.

And actually, just weeks before it closed its doors as the Hard Rock, a man had been killed with a shotgun.

And a couple months before that, another man had also been shot to death as he was leaving the lot damn yeah intense that parking lot just like i think it would close and a lot of bar fights would take place and you know yeah that's where everybody kind of spills out right exactly and i think it just attracted a rougher crowd jeez but all that to say the property had gone through a lot of loss a lot of violence and tragedy by the time bobby laid eyes on it in 1978 but again he had no fucking idea all he saw was the future home of bobby mackie's music world i love that name i do too too. It's really fun.
It's pretty intense. Music World.
Music World, man. World Tour.
World Tour. I didn't know.
I just. It's the crystals.
I didn't know what was happening. Like, Ash just opened her mouth and went, World, and, like, hung on it for a while.
And I was like, where's this going? I was tuning it to the tune of World Star. You remember those videos? They were always horrible.
You would be like, whoa. It's the crystals, man.
It's the crystals. They're doing something to you.
They're making me all silly and goofy. That's Ash's rock voice.
It's like, world tour. It sounds like a ship horn.
It's like, whir, whir. That was a maniacal laugh that just came out of my face.
That was a cackle. I love it.
All right, all right, all right. We're back to business.
Building the nightclub. Bobby might not have had a bad feeling, like I've told you 47 times now, but the first time she got out of the car and laid eyes on the place, his wife Janet sure fucking did.
In fact, the very first time she laid eyes on this place, she said as she closed the car door and turned to look to

the building, she swore she saw a person move in the doorway and then she saw the front door close.

But there wasn't anybody supposed to be inside. Did she tell someone that when it happened or

was that like a later recollection? Fun fact, she told Bobby. Okay, cool.
Because I was like,

you should tell someone. She did.
She was like, hey, Bob, Bobby, there's a person in there. She said.
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Hey, weirdos. I'm Lindsey Graham from the podcast American History Tellers.
And if you're still reeling from Ash and Elena's episode on the Boston molasses disaster and you want to dive even deeper, you're in luck. My show doesn't usually venture too far into the spooky or creepy, but we've dedicated two full episodes to uncovering fascinating details about this bizarre molasses catastrophe from the company's negligence.
We'll be right back. is just one of many fascinating stories waiting for you on American History Tellers.
We take you

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app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify today. But he just laughed it off and eagerly made his way inside.
Yeah, you know, why not? Whatever. It was the middle of the day.
It was fully light outside. But still, Janet just couldn't shake the feeling that there was something eerie about this club.
It had an energy that she just did not like. Eek.
And when she got inside, she probably didn't really feel much better. The place was dimly lit.
All the tables and the chairs were still set up. There was posters and decorations hung on the wall.
Oh, creepy. It basically looked like whoever had owned the place before just walked out one day and never came back.
Wow. Because that actually is kind of exactly what happened.
Like that's actually what happened.

It was like that because that's what happened. Yeah.
But I don't know. She just, she didn't feel like her and Bobby were alone, I guess is how I would say it.
All right. She later said it felt like someone was in there and it, and there wasn't nobody in there but him and I.
Oh. And to make matters worse, as she made her way toward the kitchen, she started to hear what sounded like a man and a woman having an argument.
But when she pushed open the swinging doors that led to the kitchen, it was completely empty. Oh.
So she like looked around a little bit more, but there was nobody there except her and Bobby and they weren't arguing. Ooh, weird.
That's like people will hear in a lot of hauntings, you hear like people having a conversation with each other or something. Yeah.
That freaks me out for some reason. But like the auditory haunting.
Yeah. What is that called? It is in a...
You talked about it in the lighthouses when the guy was coughing. It's a...
Residual? Residual. Is that what it is? Is that what it is? A residual haunting where they're just like, just always having that like experience kind of thing? Over and over and over and over yeah it's freaky it is and i think like your first thought is kind of like oh my god are those people like still there having that argument yeah but i don't think it's that i think it's the energy exactly oh so creepy but so she was obviously super freaked out and she later said i wanted to get out of there as soon as possible yeah i don't blame you but bobby on the other hand he could not have been more enthusiastic and he wasn't

hearing any of what she was hearing he's just you know he's he's thinking of possibilities

thinking about the future of bobby mackie's music world yeah i mean if i had that in front of me i

would probably be plowing ahead too right exactly um he he was very excited he was poking around the

building he was singing to himself just checking things out oh yeah he's got a new place it

All right. too right exactly um he he was very excited he was poking around the building he was singing to himself just checking things out oh yeah he's got a new place and all the while janet is just standing by the door waiting to get the fuck out of there and after a while she was like hey can we leave i'm scared as fuck let's go and finally they did but as they drove home she could tell because at this point they hadn't purchased it they were just of like scoping locations.
But she knew that this one like was the one that Bobby had fallen in love with. She's not going to get him out of it.
No. One, she didn't want to like ruin it and be the damper on it.
Bust his bubble. And two, she also knew that she was not going to be able to talk him out of it because Bobby was the kind of guy who would not be talked out of something once his mind was made up.
So she's like, why even bother? Exactly. She knew how it was going to go.
And it turns out she was right. And just a few weeks later, they were now the official new owners of the building at 44 Licking Pike.
What a name. Haunted ass building.
Licking Pike. Licking Pike.
Like that. Every time you say it, I'm like, are you sure? No.
No. And the answer is no.
But it's L-I-C-K-I-N-G. No, that's licking.
Yeah, I don't like it. There's no other way to say that.
I didn't think so. It's just like, does that why? Licking Pike.
Licking Pike. I don't like it.
I'd like to lick pie. Oh, I love pie.
Right? Let's call it 44 Pie. Pie.
Not this. But a few days after signing the papers that made it official, the Mackies were at the club, like, kind of cleaning out all the decorations that had just been left by the previous owner and all the random junk.
And they spotted somebody in the doorway of the club. Now, the figure startled Janet, who probably was questioning whether it was an actual person or not, since she'd already seen a figure an apparition but she called out to bobby to investigate and as he got closer he could see that that figure was actually a real person this person looked to be about 20 years old a little bit shorter than bobby and just you know casually dressed yeah and he was like hey i'm carl hey carl i'm carl i'm carl it's like the monkey um um before Jimmy Neutron.
There you go. Paul never mind close but there's a Carl in Jimmy Neutron so there I am anyways I don't know what's going on with my brain but he introduced himself as Carl Lawson and he explained that he had worked at the Hard Rock before it shut down.
And ever since it had shut down, he'd been out of work. And he said, you know, I figured I'd just come by, introduce myself.
I know this place inside and out. If you need any help, I'm your guy.
He said, I don't think you have the criminal element yet, so I can help you to come and let you in on all of it. He said, if there's anything you need to know about this place, I'm the man to ask.
And then he said, I even saw a guy get killed here once. Which I was like, I don't know if you had to throw that in there, Carl.
What a like flex. I feel like you could have left that part out.
Weird flex, my guy. I saw a guy get killed here once.
He's like, I know everything about this place, even the murder of him all. He's like, welcome to this building.
I saw someone lose their life here. A lot.
Welcome home. It's like i know everything about this place even the murder of it he's like welcome to this building i saw someone lose their life here a lot welcome home it's like okay thanks a lot so much so um probably for that reason janet wasn't so sure about carl at first yeah but again she was five months pregnant at the time and bobby knew that too obviously so he was like i'm probably gonna need some extra here sooner or later.
So you know what? Let's take Carl up on the offer. Yeah.
And he also figured, and Janet did too, that Carl's knowledge about the club would make him an asset along the way, especially once they opened the place. For sure.
So he started right away and he seemed to be over the moon to be back. Like he loved being there.
I thought this was a red flag at first. It's not.
Okay. Because I was going to be like, what is going on with Carl? No, Carl's like a sweetie.
I feel like he just really loves this place. If you love what you do, you never work a day in your life.
That's Carl. Exactly.
I think Carl loved this place and I also think that this place loved Carl. That was beautiful.
It's not, though. Oh, okay.
It sounds profound and really deep. I don't know this story, so I'm really flying by the seat of my pants here.
I don't know this story. I literally don't know this story.
I don't know what happens at all. I don't know her.
I don't know her. So I thought that was beautiful, but apparently it is not.
So no, I'm interested to see why it's not beautiful. It might be beautiful like in the very end, but I feel like at this moment in time, the place was like calling to carl in my opinion at least and not calling like hey girl i miss you it's calling like carl get back here you little shit okay yeah i kind of like that that makes sense yeah that makes a lot of sense yeah you know but he also told janet once he started he said don't worry about the ghosts in here they're my friends oh he's adorable that's really sweet i kind of love it i love him a lot i love you carl i love you but she just wrote the comment off to carl having you know like a bit of an offbeat personality and not much more yeah you know she would probably feel different as her time at the club went on oh and actually a few days later she'd probably feel pretty different oh so a few days later she was cleaning in the main room of the club and she heard arguing again coming from the kitchen it kind of sounded like the same voices that she had heard the first day that she and bobby had come to the club so she made her way to the kitchen again very cautiously this time and again she found it completely empty and as soon as she walked in though she heard a weird sound coming from the sink so she went over to check it out and as she peered into the sink it started to fill up with a thick red liquid that looked like blood what so she started backing away from the sink completely horrified, But then suddenly she felt a huge hand on her back that started pushing her back toward the sink.
Oh my God. And she said the more she struggled, the stronger the force seemed to get.
I don't love that. It seemed to her like whatever was pushing her was determined to force her head under this liquid.
I would want to talk to Carl immediately and be like, are these your friends? Well, then you would have been happy because immediately he came running into the kitchen responding to Janet screaming. And as he walked in, the force let up.
She literally, like later, Janet said, if it wasn't for him, who knows what would have happened next? Oh, I'd be like, you got to talk to your friends, Carl. Right.
You better set them straight. Here.
You said these ghosts were your friends. Yeah.
This ghost just tried to kill me. This is on you.
You are who you hang with. Okay.
Guilty by association. You better make this right.
You are the company you keep Carl. Carl, Paul.
That's alliteration right there, Carl, Paul. So Janet and Carl immediately went to Bobby because they were like, bitch, you own this place.
Yeah, this is not good. They were like, I almost just got drowned in a sink full of blood.
And I also heard phantom arguing just like the first day that we got here. Which that sounds so like just we don't even need to mention it anymore at this point.
Like I was like, phantom arguing, that's terrifying. And then the sink filled up with blood and they tried to drown her in it.
And I'm like, oh, you're like, score that from the record talk about the arguing anymore honestly forget it well bobby didn't want to talk about any of it he was just like i don't really think there's anything going on here wow which i would have been like invalidating me as fuck yeah i am carrying our child you bitch i'd be like why would i make that up like that's a weird thing to make up i don't know maybe if he thought that like she didn't want the club or something but that's like a weird thing to make up. I don't know.
Maybe if he thought that, like, she didn't want the club or something. But that's, like, a weird one to make up.
Yeah, I don't know. But he said, I don't believe in ghosts.
There's got to be some other explanation. Something else.
Can't be that. Yeah, obviously.
Let me tell you the wrath Drew would face if I had a ghost hand shove my ass closer to a fucking sink full of red ooze that wanted to put my head under that and he was just like man I don't believe in ghosts so fuck off I'd be like I'd be mad I am angry yeah that's what I would say I'd be I am angry you know what this face is It's the face of an irritated woman. Angry.
I'm mad.

Upset. So Janet and Carl, they were like, yeah, I don't really care if you believe us or not.
There's spirits here, Bobby. Yeah.
And before long, they would not be the only ones to think that. Because a few nights after the attack on Janet in the kitchen, patrol officer, like literal police officer, Larry Hornsby was doing his rounds and he pulled into the parking lot of Bobby Mackey's just to do a sweep.
Now, while he was parked in the lot, he thought he saw somebody moving around inside the club, which was closed at the time. So he was like, oh shit, that could be a break-in.
So he called for backup, an additional officer. And once that officer arrived, the two of them went into the building announcing themselves as they went in the front door.
Inside, the club was completely dark and Hornsby was actually starting to second guess what he'd seen through the window. He was like, I don't know, like maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me.
He's like, shit, did I just call backup for nothing? Exactly. But just as he was second- was second guessing himself, both officers started hearing noises from the backstage area of the club.
Hornsby said, I knew there was a man and woman and a radio playing. I heard the voices and I heard the music.
What? So they heard all of that. And when they reached the area where the noises were coming from, they found that the room was completely empty.

Oh, that's fucked up.

But as they were searching the room, they heard the front door slam shut.

What?

So at that point, they were like, I guess if somebody was in here, they just fled.

So maybe there really was someone in here.

No way.

So they reported what they found and they left the club for the night.

And I'm sure they probably were like, damn, like somebody evaded us.

Yeah. Damn.
We just got got poop just a few nights later just a few nights later hornsby was back at bobby mackie's and this time he was actually responding to the scene of an uh of an accident in the parking lot okay and by this time, he and his partner, excuse me, sorry. By the time he and his partner were able to get the driver out of the car, the guy had unfortunately died.
Oh. I know.
And now was laying out on the pavement. So Hornsby didn't want to cause a scene.
So he started looking around for something in his car that he could use to cover the body. I guess before the first responders responders got there and as he was doing that he said this young woman came up to him and offered him a tablecloth like the ones that they had inside the club so he was just like oh wow that waitress was so helpful yeah excuse me that's gonna be great so after she handed it to him she went back inside and you know he just went about his job but later once the scene had been cleared he went inside to go thank the woman for the tablecloth and as soon as he got to the door he realized it was locked and it didn't look like anybody had been in the building for hours what a nice ghost right wow yeah that was nice and there were nice ghosts in there that's the thing there's some really fucked up ones but then there's some nice ones yeah that one's nice here's the tablecloth i agree So as spring turned to summer, that was nice.
And there were nice ghosts in there. That's the thing.
There's some really fucked up ones, but then there's some nice ones. Yeah, that one's nice.
Here's the tablecloth. I agree.
So as spring turned to summer, Bobby was doing a bunch of renovations, Bobby and Janet, and they were starting to come along slowly until a fire threatened to undo everything that Bobby had planned for the club. Oh, no.
The fire started on the night of July 8th, 1978. And when firefighters got the call, they were told that the fire was of an unexplained origin.
Ooh. And that it had started in one of the older parts of the building.
Now, according to the fire chief at the time, Edward Sendelbach, investigators had no idea and still don't to this day what started the blaze. Damn.
But luckily, they were able to get get it under control and it didn't do too much damage to the club, but it did do some damage. The damages totaled around $2,000, but they were enough to push back the official opening of the club a few more months.
Oh, and that sucks. Yeah.
You're going to lose some money on that. You're going to lose some money and you were so close to to opening.
Yeah. So later that summer, things at Bobby Mackey's Music World.
Bobby Magic. Aw.
Bobby Mackey's. Aw.
I couldn't say it. Bobby Mackey's Music World.
I almost said Magic World. Why do I want to say magic? I don't know.
It's like spirits. Yeah.
It's the crystals. That was rough.
It took me three times and I still didn't say it right. Maybe the fourth time is the charm? I'm not meant to.
I won't try again. It's okay.
That made me sad. You sounded so defeated.
I'm not supposed to say that. I guess I'll just go fuck myself.
Because I want to say magic instead of music and I don't know why. Bobby Mackey's Music World! There you go.
You say it better for both of us, so I'm okay with it. All right.
Well, later that summer, things on Bobby Mackey's Music World! There it is. We're finally coming together, and everything was on track for their September opening.
Janet and Carl, though, were still hearing weird fucking noises in the club. Good.
But there hadn't been any more violent encounters. Even better.
The one that Janet had had in the kitchen with the blood in the hand. Because that was violent for everybody.
Very violent. Yeah.
But that all changed in late August. She went a little while without being violently attacked but then she was violently attacked again in late august and this time it was really scary because remember she's pregnant oh i forgot so this not only threatened her life but the life of their unborn baby oh no this is scary so according to janet she'd been cleaning the office on the second floor and suddenly she got a weird feeling like she wasn't alone in the room and as she swept her way back out of the office and onto the landing at the top of the stairs she felt a man's hand grab her by the arm oh and the shock of you know that happening and no one being there caused her to cry out and whatever had a hold of her actually let go momentarily but then pushed her her and caused her to stumble forward.
And then a second push came from behind just seconds later, and that one sent her tumbling down the stairs. The entire flight of stairs.
Oh, my God. She fell all the way to the first floor.
And later, she said when she glanced up, she thought that she saw the shadow of a man standing on the landing and then it quickly disappeared.

Oh, that's fucked up. Right? So obviously that fucking terrified her.
And at that point she was six months pregnant. Oh my God.
And looking back on it, she later said, I was so terrified because I thought I was going to lose my baby. I was angry.
I was terrified. I was everything.
so obviously taking a fall like that when you're pregnant is really concerning no matter how far

along are you how far along you are so they decided bobby and janet to go right to the er yeah and janet actually ended up having to be induced at six months at six months holy shit so she gave birth to a baby girl who at the time weighed only one pound and 15 ounces little squirt oh my goodness now the baby had to stay in the hospital for weeks but then she was finally stable enough to go home with her oh my god she lived she lived wow can you that is six months like they were supposed to be in there another three months damn Damn. That's so scary.
That's really scary. And even though there was like the immediate danger was totally behind them, Janet was done and she refused to step foot in the club again.
And you know what's scary? It immediately made me think of him trying, the other guy trying to induce a miscarriage with Pearl. You're on to something, girlfriend.
Okay, because I immediately was like, what the fuck? Isn't that so scary? That's really scary. Yep.
And you are on to something, so good, good, good. Following your vibes there.
Good job. I just was like, good, good, good.
She just kept pointing at me. Good, good, good, good.
Good job. Good job.
So after Janet's fall down the stairs, Carl started trying to talk to Bobby about what was going on. Oh, yeah.
He was like, hey, dude, I tried to tell you before, like, this place is haunted. And, like, maybe we should try to find somebody who could get rid of these spirits.
Yeah, like, Janet's not coming back here ever. Yeah, he was like, there's that whole part of it.
But Bobby was like, there's nothing supernatural going on here. No, no, no.
I know. Well, one, he didn't want any bad publicity or rumors negatively affecting the business because he could meet people love a haunt that's the thing that seemed to be like his thing throughout this whole journey of like not wanting to affect the business but i was like no people love haunted shit oh yeah people would be there from all over you know how many most haunted things in the world there is oh yeah a yeah.
A million. So many.
But also, he hadn't experienced any of the supernatural phenomenon himself. And for that reason, he still didn't believe in ghosts.
I don't know about that, Bobby. Bobby's a I-gotta-see-it-to-believe-it kind of guy.
Oh, boy. So throughout trying to open the club, obviously, there was a lot of setbacks.
And the last one was a faulty sprinkler system oh they realized it during the fire and

since that or excuse me and since that posted a serious safety risk the opening was pushed back yet again so bobby promised to the fire department into the town that he would have it repaired and in september he was finally granted to in September

he was finally granted permission to open

on October 27th

19th he was finally granted to in September he was finally granted permission to open on October 27th 1978 now Bobby Mackey's music world of magic of magic and grandeur had it's grand opening with performances by Jack Reno I think and Bobby himself he's actually talented. But unfortunately, the excitement of the grand opening was very short-lived because in early December, Bobby got a written order of closure from the Kentucky Fire Marshal, which gives me coyote ugly vibes.
Oh, yeah? Because he failed to fix the sprinkler system. He was like, yeah, yeah, I'll get that fixed.
You're supposed to do that when you say you will. Yeah, you definitely are.
I guess he had like a lot of other things going on. Can't pinky promise and then go back.
Yeah, no takesies, backsies, Bobby. But the notice also specified not only would Bobby need to fix the sprinkler system, he would also need to fix any other faulty wiring.
So now they were going to have to go through the whole fucking place and figure it out. And he was a bit worried because fixing those issues was, one, going to be costly on top of everything else he'd already put into the club.
And for the first time, he was starting to face the fact that he might need to start all over again from scratch. Ooh.
You know? He told the Cincinnati Inquirer, if it isn't feasible for me to go on with this place, I'm going to try to find another building close by. I'll definitely land on my feet.
The club is something I've been really dedicated to in the last year and three months. I believe in him.
I believe in him too. And you know what? You should have because fortunately the interruption was only temporary and Bobby opened back up just a short time later without having to move the business.
I love that you got British there. I don't really know why I did, but it happened.
Crystals. Crystals.
But I'm like, he opened up without having to move the business. Was that a good thing or a bad thing? Yeah, probably a bad thing.
You decide. I will.
You will? I will. Everyone has that friend who seems kind of perfect.
For Patty, that friend was Desiree. Until one day...
I texted her and she was not getting the text. So I went to Instagram.
She has no Instagram anymore. And Facebook, no Facebook anymore.
Desiree was gone. And there was one person who knew the answer.
I am a spiritual person, a magical person, a witch. A gorgeous Brazilian influencer called Cat Torres, but who was hiding a secret.
From Wondery, based on my smash hit podcast from Brazil, comes a new series, Don't Cross Cat, about a search that led me to a mystery in a Texas suburb. I'm calling to check on the two missing Brazilian girls.
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You can listen to Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Now, with the major problems behind them, or so they hoped, Bobby's hard work did seem to be paying off again.

The club was doing really good business especially on the weekends and it was getting really good reviews but the supernatural experiences continued when you just said the supernatural experiences continued yeah I was like what does that sound continued i thought it was the roadcaster and i was like fuck me i know i thought we were exploding you thought we were exploding i didn't know what's happening something fell off of something else and it made a weird noise. So I stopped and I listened and I watched.

That's... happening.
Something fell off of something else and it made a weird noise.

So I stopped and I listened and I watched.

You're just so vigilant over there.

I stopped and I listened and I watched.

I didn't know that we'd be all going to burst in flames.

For real.

If you thought we were going to explode, so you stopped, listened, and watched.

I don't know if that was quite the way to take care of that. I mean, what else was I meant to do? What was I meant to do? What was I meant to do? Are we keeping this in? Eh, why not? Something supernatural just occurred, I'm pretty sure.
All right, well, the supernatural experience has continued, and now customers, we're beginning to experience them. Oh, shit.
Good thing we don't have any customers in here. Bobby was really trying to keep these paranormal rumors about the club from circulating.
Yeah, let it flow. He thought it was bad for business.
But Carl would tell anyone and everyone about the ghosts in the building. Hell yeah.
Carl knows. I mean, that's, like, you gotta tell them what they're in for.

It's your number one selling point.

I think so. One night, one of the club's regulars,

Mike Gruber, I think is how you say it, was, quote,

making fun of Carl and his ghost friend.

Oh, why would you do that?

Well, he found out. He fucked around, and he found out.
Because he was making fun of Carl and his ghost friend there

as he was riding the mechanical bull,

which is, like, a really bold time to make fun of someone else.

Very. And as he was riding, the thing started to speed up out of control.
Oh, my God. And it reached full speed.
Oh, damn. Mike called out like, slow this fucking thing down, Carl.
But Carl couldn't control the machine. It had gone nuts.
And Mike said it was like some force took control of the bull. Yeah, the force you made fun of, man.
Well, listen, this is the only story that I doubt. I don't think this was paranormal.
I think Carl said, fuck you, asshole. Thank you.
I also thought that. Yeah, that's the only one that I doubt.
Yeah. I think Carl was like, oh my God, I can't control this all of a sudden.
You're such a dick. It's like some force.
And Carl's like, it's me. I'm the force.
It's me. Hi.
I'm the force.'s it's me hi I'm the force it's me I feel like Carl hi uh my name is the force but beyond the owners and the customers of Bobby Mackey's even people who came to do work on the place experienced strange happening yeah stay away stay away one afternoon a carpenter Johnny France which like what a fucking name him France? I'd be like, yeah, you are. I feel like he was hot.
Johnny France had to have been hot. Johnny France has to be hot.
That would be so disappointing if like I didn't think he was hot. Yeah.
Because like opinions. I didn't want to say like if he wasn't hot because like you might think he's hot, but like I might not.
Opinions, you know. Johnny France, you know.
But he was alone in the main area of the club. And he was doing some repairs.
He was doing some, you know, Johnny France. Johnny France doing repairs.
Oui, oui. We were so like Italian.
And then we went French. Oui, oui.
Bonjour, Johnny France. Maybe he's half Italian and half French.
Yep. But he was doing some repairs.
And while he was working, he claimed that he saw, quote, an entire row of chairs fall over, one after another, as if they were dominoes. Maybe they were.
They weren't. They were chairs.
And according to France, the chairs, quote, fell over as if something invisible was in the room, walking between the chairs and knocking them over. Oh, that's spooky.
Isn't that so creepy? Yeah. And Carl had actually seen a very similar thing happen just a few weeks earlier.
So this only solidified his feeling that the club was haunted. Yeah, I'd say so.
Now, while the ghost story circulated among the patrons and the staff at Bobby Mackey's and the people that did work for them, everyone just seemed like amused by them. Yeah.
But Carl, on the other hand, was getting increasingly obsessed with these hauntings. Good for him.
You know, like live in... Have an interest.
Live in research. Yeah.
Now, one day while he was cleaning the basement, he noticed a loose floorboard. So he pulled it completely loose and he found a hiding place where somebody had hidden a diary oh jackpot jackpot the dream literally the dream i am dying to stumble across a loose floorboard loosen it all the way and find somebody's old ass diary ancient ass diary hell yeah do i think you should read an ancient ass diary probably not but but would I? Yes.
Probably. Most likely.
Nope. Alright, so according to Carl, the diary belonged to Johanna.
Johanna. And I sing that because Bobby Mackey wrote a song about Johanna in this whole fucking thing.
And that's the song. Johanna.
Johanna. It's way better than that.
Also, he actually has a really good voice. He does.
I don't know why I said actually. Like, I doubted him, but.
You know what it is? I'm not really a country fan. I'll just say it.
I'm not at all. So I'll absolutely say that.
But he has a wonderful voice. He does.
He almost has, like, folk. Yeah.
Vibes, but country, too. Yeah.
Anyways, Carl found the diary of Johanna, a former showgirl. Oh, shut the fuck up.
Which, like, immediately resonated. This is so good.
I love it. And she had worked at the club way back when.
And as he read through the diary, the pieces of her life started to come together. He read that Johanna had been in love with one of the club's musicians.
Shut up. Shut the fuck up.
We love a a love story but apparently her father was super

against her having any feelings for this guy totally disapproved totally just totally did star-crossed lovers star-crossed lovers and he was like you can't have feelings for him and you like which like you can't like how do you forbid that he was like don't feel things i was like what like i can't help that dad i can't fight the feeling bringing it back to a place of trolls okay bringing it to frozen he also was like you definitely can't pursue them, I can't help that, Dad. I can't fight the feeling.
Bringing it back to a place of trolls. Okay.
Bringing it to Frozen. He also was like, you definitely can't pursue them.
One, you can't have those feelings. And two, you better not pursue them.
Don't. Now, when he found out that they were carrying out a relationship secretly.
You made it forbidden, man. You made it better.
Yeah. And he forbid them again.
He was like, I forbid you, Johanna, from seeing this man this man ever again and actually i'll fucking kill him if you see him again i'd be like dad i'd be like you're kind of homicidal and it's really weird that's a lot so later this musician disappeared without a trace oh shit and johanna johanna immediately suspected her father well yeah he said he would kill him. I would suspect him as well.
So she poisoned her dad and then she took her own life. Oh, okay.
And she vowed, I said, to roam the halls of the nightclub until forever, waiting for the musician to return. I'm sorry, one? What a climactic ending there.
Hot that she wanted to haunt the place, not that it ended the way it did, obviously. But also, give me that diary.
Right. Give me that diary because that is a better story than I could ever come up with.
So basically I'm trying to go to Bobby Mackey's Music world. Yeah.
You want to go? Yeah. I don't have any other reason to go to Kentucky other than for that.
Bobby Mackey's music world of magic. She has magic, she says.
But in a pretty short time, Carl realized Johanna was one of the friendlier ghosts. Maybe she was murderous, but only from people that killed other people.
She poisoned her dad, but shit happens. She poisoned her dad, but he may have been a murderer.
Maybe. You know? We don't know.
Allegedly. That's the best part of it is maybe.
Perhaps. Maybe she really took a chance, though.
Yeah, I bet she knew. She rolled the dice.
What's a feeling? Do you know? But Carl was like, nah, that's my girl. And he even actually started to come to see her as a friend and a protector.
I love that. But at the same time, he was like, I don't know, maybe she was the one responsible for the attacks on Janet.
Oh, Johanna. Because he was like, maybe she was pregnant at the time of her death and she resented Janet's pregnant presence in the club.
I mean, it doesn't sound like you had any evidence to that fact, but like no literally not. Okay.
But he was theorizing. Yeah.
And he figured that was the motivation behind the attacks. Okay.
Now I should say in the years since Carl supposedly found Johanna's diary nobody was actually able to find any evidence that she ever existed and there's also no evidence of the murder of her lover. That makes me upset.
But. Not that murder someone but that like her dad didn't murder someone but like i wanted johanna the showgirl to exist i think she might have like a johanna that wrote a diary and then hit it under the floorboards yeah so i believe in carl is what i'll say i'll believe in carl yeah i think johanna I mean, I think we're taking that like pregnancy thing to a, yeah, that to a speculative place, but right.
I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if it's her pushing Janet down the stairs.
Let's not blame. It sounds like a man.
Well, right. I don't think it was Johanna.
Johanna. But the thing is Carl was going to realize that in due time.
Okay. All right.
Carl's smart. So a lot of people, not including me, were skeptical.
What did I just say? Skeptical. A lot of people were skeptical.
You were skeptical. No, I wasn't skeptical.
What did I even say? I can't even say it again. Skeptical.
Skeptical. No, a lot of people, not myself included, were skeptical.
Yeah yeah you got it about whether or not johanna ever existed you can't say her name without singing it oh i can't it's bobby mackie he it's the magic of bobby mackie's music world it overtook me it's the mackie it's the magic so but okay so so they were skeptical about if she existed or not. But there actually is verifiable proof of the other two ghosts that Carl believed were haunting the club.
Awesome. So the night after he discovered Johanna's diary, Carl, who was living in a space above the club at that point, like a little apartment, he woke up from a deep sleep and couldn't breathe.
Oh. So he slowly started being able to breathe again.
But as he got like all of his breath back, the power in the entire building went out, which meant that he had to go down to the basement to reset the breakers. No, thank you.
So he did because he was like, I have some ghosts up in here that like me that like me yeah but as he was down there he happened to notice yet another loose floorboard in the basement look at this man i know now when he pulled at that one it revealed a hatch covering that deep well shut up that had been used by the former slaughterhouse to drain the blood and the fluids from the animals oh my goodness and. And he said as he stared into the well, which like in general, I would never recommend.
No, don't stare into a well. He started to feel an evil presence surrounding him in the basement.
And it was so freaky to him that he literally fled back upstairs into his apartment. I just had this really scary feeling of falling into that well.
Yeah, I don't like that for you. That's why I don't recommend looking into wells for a while.
I'm out of there. Take a quick peek and then say, oh, gotta go.
No, I'm not going anywhere near that well. Don't really take a quick peek.
Nope. I don't recommend that.
I don't want to be anywhere near it. Do what you have to do.
Do what you must. Don't even take a picture.
Not me. Someone else take a picture.
I'll look at the picture. It'll last longer.
And that's not necessarily a good thing. I just don't want to fall in it.
But ooh. Get out of there.
I know. Get out of that well.
I'm trying. Get out of that well.
I was listening to Waves by Tame Impala this morning and Miguel. I don't know what happened.
I don't know what happened. I don't know.
So in the days that followed the discovery of the well, which I never recommend looking into, like I've said. No.
Carl, and this is why I don't recommend looking into wells, became erotic and unpredictable. Yeah.
And looking back, Bobby recalled, it got to the point where I wouldn't know which Carl I was talking to. I'd have to talk to him for a little while to figure out how to deal with him because he always seemed to be different.
Poor Carl. I know, he was going through it.
Because the thing was, when he discovered the well, Carl became convinced that the stories that he had heard about Pearl Bryan's head were true. Which it could be.
And it doesn't necessarily need to be like satanic. Exactly.
It could be they just threw it in the well because they knew no one would ever find it. Exactly.
Now, he was worried about the malevolent spirits in the club. And he was worried that they were...
Wait, I fucked that up. Sorry.
He was worried that the malevolent spirits in the club and he was worried that they were, wait, I fucked that up, sorry. He was worried that the malevolent spirits in the club were actually Pearl's killers.
Yes. Scott Jackson and Alonzo Walling.
I agree. And now he figured and understood that they were probably the ones who attacked Janet.
Because remember, Pearl was also pregnant when they killed her because they didn't want her to be pregnant. Yes.
And now Carl was really worried that Alonzo and Scott would not stop until they had driven everyone out of the club for good. I fully believe this.
Me too. So his instinct was to get the fuck out of there and never come back again.
Yeah. But at the same time, he was worried about leaving Bobby and Janet.
Aww. Because it kind of sounds like he really thought of them like family.
He was fully convinced that the building and the land were evil, but he just cared too much about them to leave them behind. That's precious.
And that's why I love Carl. And Carl we trust.
Now, as we all know at this point, since buying the property and owning the club, Bobby had completely dismissed any claims of this place being haunted. But in the weeks following the discovery of the well in the basement, he just couldn't ignore the fact that something was causing Carl a whole lot of distress.
Or the fact that his wife had never been comfortable at the club and now refused to return. There's that.
But at the same time, he was still mindful or like thought that the rumors could affect the business but he also wanted to cause it wanted to relieve whatever was causing carl so much stress yeah so he reached out to his friend doug hensley who was a paranormal researcher and who was actually living in the area at the time he's a good friend i know and d like, you know what? I will do whatever I can to help you. Now, this is fucking wild.
Oh, man, I'm strapped in. So during his research, because, you know, he likes research just like us and Dave, Hensley came across like numerous stories of the tragedy and the death that occurred on the property where the club once stood.
But the one that stood out to him the most was the murder of Pearl Bryan.

Oh, hell yeah.

Obviously.

So he dug deeper and deeper into the story,

and he found out that while those two killers stood on the gallows

waiting for the door to drop out beneath them,

one of them vowed that he would come back

and haunt everyone involved in the trial

and the place where Pearl's head had been left. Guys, her head is in that well.
Right? Her head is in that well. I actually don't know if it was.
No, it is. It is? 100%.
Oh. I was like, I had this to be true.
I was like, I didn't find that. No, I fully believe that.
I believe it. It makes sense.
I think they probably just like can't get back there., it might just be too deep. Who knows how far that goes down.
Exactly. So between the discovery of the well and the other haunted happenings at the club and the changes in Carl's behavior, Doug Hensley became convinced that Scott Jackson and Alonzo Walling were haunting the club and were determined to destroy Carl Lawson specifically.
Damn. I think he must have been like an empath.
Wow. Like an empath.
No, I think he just was one. This is wild.
So Doug really wanted to resolve this issue for everyone involved. So he reached out to a local psychic medium, Patricia Michelle.
Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Right? Hold for applause. Absolutely.
Like, of course, like Patricia Michelle. Yeah.elle what a great name now she claims that she has the ability to communicate with the dead and she has had that ability since she was a child and as soon as she got to the club she told everyone there which i respect that she didn't want to know anything about the property didn't know anything about the history and didn't want to and she wanted them to stay completely silent while she took a walk around and looked at things hell yeah so in one room she actually did get the impression of the spirit of a woman who said her name was johanna johanna i knew it yeah i knew she was coming back she was real now according to patricia johanna knew that she was dead and said that she wanted to stay at the club to wait for her boyfriend to join her whoa where's her boyfriend me thinks carl was right after all yeah i don't know what if he like actually never died and he just left and went somewhere else wow that would suck that would suck real bad like i think the dad killed him yeah now after touring the upper floors of the club carl bobby and doug Doug went with Patricia down into the basement where she got an entirely different and way more aggressive feeling than she had in the room with Johanna.
Yep. Now, Patricia told them that she could see the room, quote, like it used to be.
And she was referring to when it was originally configured as the basement of the slaughterhouse. so Carl pulled back the hatch on the floor to show her the dark shaft that used to be the well.
And Patricia said that inside she saw Pearl's head floating in the well. And she backed away from it.
Like she like visualized it. Holy shit.
Now later she talked about the experience and she said, I felt like I was spinning. I couldn to get out of there i'm telling you i am telling you they put pearl's head in that well right i know it so back upstairs patricia filled everyone in on what she saw as she walked the building and she told them i think what is in bobby mackie's nightclub are ghosts that believe there is no place for them to go so they would prefer to live in this nightclub than to go on to a place where they may burn for eternity.
Because they're assholes.

Exactly.

Some of them.

Some of them like the guys.

Exactly.

And Johanna's probably afraid because, you know, like she did kill her dad.

Yeah, there's that.

But she also explained that she did believe Scott and Alonzo were specifically targeting Carl.

Yeah.

And she said they were using him as a conduit for their rage and causing him mental anguish in the process. Poor Carl.
I know, right? So she said the only solution would be to have a priest or a minister come out and bless the space and to have an exorcism for Carl. Oh.
Mm-hmm. So Bobby, after all of this, y'all, still didn't believe in ghosts.
I mean one thing about Bobby is that he's going to stand his ground. That's one thing about Bobby.
You're not going to sway Bobby. Two things about Bobby.
He's going to stand his ground and write a great fucking song called Johanna, Johanna. Those are two things about Bobby.
Two things about Bobby. Three things about Bobby though.
He's a good friend. He is.
I feel that about Bobby. He is.
So he agreed to find somebody who could help them with an exorcism because he was worried about his friend. Hell yeah.
So it took some time and, you know, a few uncomfortable conversations with people. But eventually he came across this guy that he knew, Larry Kidwell, who thought that he might know someone who could help.
Larry happened to work in television and radio advertising, and the reason he actually knew Bobby was because they had worked on a commercial for the nightclub together, and they just, like, stayed in contact ever since then. They weren't really close by any means, but Larry knew Bobby well enough to know that he was not joking when he explained what had happened to Janet and what was actively happening to Carl.
Yeah. But like Bobby, Larry was pretty skeptical and had a hard time believing in something he couldn't see or experience himself.
But at the same time, willing to give the benefit of the doubt and willing to reach out to his friend, Glenn Cole, who was a local Pentecostal minister who might be willing to help. Oh, good.
So, unlike Bobby and Larry, Glenn Cole actually had no trouble believing that the club was haunted. That's one thing about Glenn.
That's one thing about Glenn for you. According to Larry, Reverend Cole explained, spirits and demons don't possess buildings, but they do exist in structures where people live or come and go so they can possess those humans when they choose.
That sucks. Now, given the history of the property and like the whole fucking myriad of tragedies that happened on the site, Reverend Cole was like, yeah, I think it's entirely possible that this place is haunted.
And more importantly, he felt a very urgent need to meet with Carl to determine whether he was in spiritual danger or not. Yeah.
So a few days later, he got to Bobby Mackey's and he wanted to talk with Carl to determine whether he was in spiritual danger or not.

Yeah.

So a few days later, he got to Bobby Mackey's and he wanted to talk to Carl

and kind of take a look around the place just like Patricia Michelle.

Now, almost immediately, Reverend Cole felt uncomfy.

And Doug Hensley remembered meeting this reverend for the first time.

And he said, he told me this was the most evil sight that he'd ever stepped foot on in his entire life and it was full of evil whoa that's kind of redundant but like i thought you were gonna say that's kind of evil that is pretty evil though yeah well when you think about it when you told me the pearl bryan story it's like they did they killed her by decapitating her. Yeah.
She died getting her head sawed off. Uh-huh.
That is the most evil shit you can possibly imagine. Absolutely.
So like, and she was pregnant. And she was pregnant.
And this used to be a slaughterhouse. Yeah.
Like, animals used to be killed here. Like, there's really bad shit happening.
Right. And multiple people have died on this property yeah like yeah there a lot has gone

down so after he heard about carl's experiences at the club the reverend said i've been doing this

for years and i'm telling you carl lawson is demonically possessed oh man so days later on

the evening of july 20th 1982 bobby mackie took the stage with his band because he said the show

must go on at bobby mackie's music world of magic yeah. And he was going to perform for a packed house of country music fans in the nightclub.
That's another thing about Bobby. The show must go on, Bobby.
That's right. Now the band had been playing for like a little bit when Carl, who was working that night, caught a whiff of smoke from somewhere in the building.
And minutes later, one of the patrons yelled something out about a fire and the band immediately stopped playing so from the stage bobby was like please just like exit in a calm and orderly fashion like we got to get everybody out of here calmly yeah and to his surprise everybody actually exited the building calmly without the slightest hint of panic that doesn't sound human to me me either as the patrons filed out of the club, Carl tracked the smoke to a small fire in the kitchen.

Oh.

And the Wilder fire department were just arriving as Carl and Bobby were able to put the fire out themselves with extinguishers.

And just a short time later, they were given the all clear from the fire department to just go on with that night's performance.

What?

What? Where did that fire come from? Well. Hey, weirdos.
I'm Mike Corey. And like you, I'm drawn to true crime, creepy history, and all things spooky.
If you particularly enjoyed Ash and Elena's coverage of the USS Indianapolis, where 900 sailors battled rough seas, sharks, dehydration, and madness in the open ocean, you need to check out my podcast, Against the Odds. We dive deep into this survival story across four full episodes, revealing details you haven't heard yet.
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Bobby was surprised but also happy that most of the patrons who had been hiding in the parking lot, they were eager to come back inside because they also believed that the show must go on. They were hiding up there.
Then they were like, surprise, we lit the fire. We didn't start the fire.
We started the fire. That's funny.
Little side note, Fall Out Boy made a new We Didn't Start the fire because they thought it needed an update what because a lot of shit has happened since the last one that you could say really fast like billy joel oh my god i saw it on the news this morning and i was like all right that's cool okay i like that i'm excited to hear that my screen name used to be fall Hell yeah. Word.
Carl, on the other hand, he couldn't help but wonder if the fire had a more sinister origin than just like a simple kitchen fire. I also couldn't help but wonder that.
Me either. He wondered if the evil spirits that, you know, were haunting him were threatened by the Reverend's presence a few days earlier.
And now this fire was them trying to prevent him from coming back to the club. Carl knows what's up.
Carl does. But a few days later, Reverend Cole did come back to the club to perform the exorcism that would maybe rid Carl and the nightclub of the spirits that haunted them.
Now, Carl was surprised to find that theend was accompanied by a reporter and three cameramen.

Were you surprised?

Not cool.

But Reverend Cole said, you know, they were just there to document things, quote, just in case anything happens.

Yeah.

If I was Carl, I'd be like, am I going to die?

Like, I don't know about this.

So he was worried about the reporters being there, and he told the reverend that he was also worried about getting hurt.

But the reverend was like, no, listen, I've done this a ton of times, nothing to worry about.

He said, I've been in the ministry for 18 years, and I've come close to seeing it all. Come close.
Close, but you haven't seen it all. Not quite.
There's some stuff I haven't seen. Still uncomfy with this.
I'm like, that could happen here. A little bit.
You might actually see it all here tonight. So for that reason, Carl was apprehensive, but he was also hopeful and he was like ready to do this.
So he led Reverend Cole and the reporters to the old kitchen. And that's where the exorcism was going to be performed.
okay now the room at that point was mostly being used for storage especially since the renovation so the men had to push all the clutter out of the way before they could set up now once they figured they had adequate space they set up a table table and Carl was to sit just across from Cole, the Reverend, and he started reciting a prayer and asking for the Lord's help in cleansing the space of its spirits. Now, within a matter of minutes, Reverend Cole said he started to notice a change in Carl's body language.
I guess his palms were pressed really hard into the table and his head started nodding up and down and he quote began mumbling something under his breath and a low and different tone of voice. Oh I don't like that.
I don't like it either. It gives me Esteban from The Suite Life of Zack and Cody and that episode fucked me up when I was little.
I have no idea what you're talking about but I imagine it is uncomfortable. If you're a zillennial you know now while reverend cole went on with his prayer carl was having a hard time talking but continued his raspy breathing and i guess um that started like right after cole began reading from the bible he started like doing a weird raspy breathing now he cole kept going on commanding the spirits trying to guide them out you know la-di-da-do and as he was talking you're not gonna perform an exorcism right now no the fuck i'm not um no there's spirits here then cool but carl's eyes seemed he the reverend said to be completely fixated on him the reverend and finally carl spoke in a strange voice and told the reverend quote they'll get me while i'm alone in here oh which like i have goosebumps right now oh now for some like that's the thing that this like really fucking creeped me out but the reverend believed that the voice was intended to trick him and like prey on his sympathy like it was coming from a spirit and not Carl.

Right?

So the exchange between the Reverend and the spirits that seemed to be inhabiting Carl's body went on for what seemed like hours. With the Reverend praying over Carl who seemed resistant to what this guy was saying.

But finally Carl's body seemed to start jerking and spasming as Reverend Cole continued to to command these spirits to leave his body and then finally carl fell limp and moments later he looked up at the reverend and said i feel different something in me has changed oh i hope better right so he smiled and he seemed pleased that the exorcism appeared to have worked now outside the kitchen larry kidwell watched as the four newsmen walked out of the room and they all had kind of like disappointed looks on their faces i think because they're hoping someone would die exactly you know and you know he understood why he also expected a big spectacle from the exorcism like something you'd see in the movies but instead the whole thing kind of seemed to end with like a whisper and a bang i love it They're like, oh, man, it worked. God damn it.
Shit. That guy is fine.
But sensing Larry's disappointment, Reverend Cole made sure that everyone was out of earshot and then told Larry, it isn't over. Carl or a spirit was lying to me.
The spirits aren't gone. Carl was either protecting them because he's terribly afraid or he doesn't want them to leave.
This was not the end. And apparently, like in some reiterations of the story, that's where it ends.
Like with Carl, like in that moment being cured. But then me and Dave found other versions of the story where all of this happens.
So a few weeks laterend cole returned to bobby mackie's yet again and he wanted to finish what he had started a week earlier now the second exorcism was said to be a hell of a lot more difficult and taxing than the first one according to doug hensley it took weeks with the reverend praying over carl while he just like writhed around in agony. Oh no.
And in one instance, after one of the prayer sessions, Carl was alone in his room. This is really gross and like really scary.
And he noticed his underwear had been soaked in what seemed like blood. So he went to the bathroom to check himself out and he realized he was bleeding from hemorrhoids that seemingly

had developed instantaneously what the fuck like he didn't have them before he was getting exercised and now all of a sudden he had them and they were bleeding insanely maybe that's like the demons coming out perhaps doug hensley said it was not just ordinary hemorrhoids these were tremendous in size growing growing and spreading

like poison ivy big boy hemorrhoids tremendous

they were big y'all tremendous hemorrhoids for me growing in size like what a shitty way to get possessed no pun intended like. Like, honestly, no pun intended.
That

sucks. Right? So

Carl was obviously in a full

blown panic and started

crying out to the spirits

and he was like, listen, I promise I will

keep the reverend from returning if you just stop

hurting me. Like, this is terrible.
Oh my god, I feel so

bad for Carl. I do too.
We were not

laughing at Carl. We were not laughing at Carl.

I was laughing at the description of that. Like tremendous is a wild adjective to use.
I don't know why. Doug Hensley, wild man.
Now, after a week of no haunting or demonic activity after this, because everything like got put to a standstill. Yeah.
Carl was starting to think that his promise was successful in keeping these spirits at bay but then reverend cole and larry kidwell showed up unexpectedly and apparently threatened to destroy the little amount of peace that carl had managed to find for himself oh no now i guess he like carl was like for a minute i was like not gonna let them into my apartment and he figured he could run or hide from them until they went away but at the same time he knew that's what the demons wanted and as long as he did what they wanted he was never going to be free from this god so he let them inside and he walked with them to the kitchen larry set up the cameras and left the room now as soon as reverend cole started back up his prayers carl was really really upset and cole was like listen this is going, this is going to be the final time. Like, I know it.
Like, we're so close. Just stick with me here.
But Carl said, but what about Johanna and Buck? Referring to the former showgirl and the owner of the Primrose. And he told the Reverend, they don't bother anybody.
Oh, my God, Carl. And that's when Reverend Cole realized that this was what he kind of figured all along.
There was some part of Carl that didn't want the haunting to end. Because he really cared about those two spirits.
And he'd become attached to them over the past three years. So they got in like an argument about it.
And Carl insisted that Johanna. I missed it the last time.
And Buck wanted to stay with him. And Reverend Cole was like, listen, they're not going to find any peace and neither are you unless we let them move on to the next whatever.
So before they were able to reach an understanding, Carl's voice changed dramatically. First to this weird snarl of a man calling himself Sam Tucker.
And then to the rasp of another entity who reverend cole knew to be charlie and that was another one of the spirits inhabiting calls carl's body now they cycled through one entity after the other and insisted they didn't want to leave and demanded that reverend cole ceased his attempts to exorcise them from carl's body so it went on that way for hours with all of these entities,

like confronting Reverend Cole.

And then he was just in turn praying over Carl,

demanding that they leave.

And finally,

after hours of this and shouting,

Carl's body began to jerk and spasm again in response to the reverend's

words.

And this time he forced his hands on the table,

pushed the chair way back from the minister, trying to escape the exorcism actually but at that point reverend cole grabbed carl held him tightly finished his prayers one by one and all of the spirits left carl's battered body at this point until all of them were gone damn nah i just said yeah now later after the reverend had left carl actually finally felt like he was truly alone in the club for the first time in three years or even more because he had worked there even before now the thought of never feeling johanna though, again, disappointed him. But he remembered what Reverend Cole had told him.
Reverend Cole told him, when a spirit or spirits are cast out, they search the world over looking for a new home. But if they can't find one, they return to their old house.
And if that house isn't clean and filled with another spirit, they'll return with seven more. And that person is much worse off than before.
It's very important that you start going to church. You have to fill yourself with Lord Jesus.
And more importantly, you can never entertain these spirits again. If you ever feel their presence, you have to pray for the Lord to wash it and cleanse you.
You have to resist them. I was with you for part of that.
As soon as you got to the seven spirits, I was like, oh, shit. That sounded nice before.
Yeah. Because it was like, oh, it'll come back.
Right. And be like, hey, I'm home.
But then it was like, it has seven assholes with them. Yeah, you don't want that.
No, I don't want that. And then I also don't want anybody to demand that I go to church.
Yeah, or that I'm going to be haunted for the rest of my life. Like, it's fine.
You can go to church. Don't tell me I have to.
Don't demand it of me. Get out of here, Reverend Cole.
You've done enough. Yeah.
So throughout the late 70s and 80s, Bobby Mackey went out of his way to, as we know, keep those rumors of demons and ghosts from spreading and negatively affecting the business. But by the 90s, word had spread because, you know, there was a whole ass exorcism in his restaurant.
Yeah, that'll get around. Or nightclub, excuse me.
Word had spread and there was really no way around the fact that now people were actually more interested in the ghosts than they were in the country and the western music yeah you know it's fine and in the fall of 1993 bobby mackey's music world of magic yeah was actually sued by a patron who claimed that he was attacked by a ghost while in the club i'm a little obsessed with that a real lawsuit oh you just wait babe oh man you just wait babe you just wait hang on tight according to the suit jr costigan went to bobby mackie's and quote walked around the club during a myth daring a mythical ghost that has become legend at the club to show itself he then claimed that he went into the men's bathroom and quote a dark-haired man appeared to him with a rope dangling around

his neck and attacked him punching him and kicking him then dissolved into the air this is a real lawsuit i love it here so in his suit he was seeking a thousand dollars in damages for pain and suffering and demanded that a sign be posted in the club warning of spectral danger honestly that sounds awesome a warning sign that says like warning spectral danger well i'm glad you like that because it comes back awesome but before that bobby bobby's lawyer w robert lots filed one of the most unusual motions to dismiss written in poetic verse yeah as follows give me some bongos The plaintiff claims in his Yeah. As follows.

Give me some bongos.

I'm so obsessed with this. Where beard and brazen he did blunder by taunting their supernatural wonder, proclaiming loudly his resistance to belief in spiritual existence.
Alas, this essence disembodied followed the plaintiff to Demen's potty. Shut the fuck up.
Where the dark haired haunt with neck and noose soundly clicked sorry, soundly kicked, complainant's drunk caboose. That's real, you guys.
That's for realsies. Followed the plaintiff to Demens Potty.
Soundly kicked, complainant's drunk caboose. Caboose.
I'm pretty obsessed with this. Demens Pottyies.
This is my favorite part. This is reckless.
This is my favorite story on the planet. This entire story.
But even though the tone was mocking and, you know, the format of the dismissal was a bit unusual. Lots insisted he was taking the case very seriously.
I mean, I guess you got to. He told reporters, someone showed up and filed the suit.
I was hired to treat it as legitimate. I'm convinced that my clients were not involved in this.

They're not the ghosts, so that's fine.

So they're not.

Now, ultimately, I'm sure you'll be shocked to hear

that this case was thrown out of court.

What?

The guy who filed the lawsuit failed to show up for the hearing.

That's shocking.

Maybe he had other things going on that day.

Or was maybe embarrassed that he filed a suit

against a fucking invisible force.

He hydrated and was like, I don't think I should follow through on on that he had a liquid iv and thought better of his fucking claims but actually bobby did agree to put a sign up behind the bar that reads and it's still there warning to our patrons this establishment is purported to be haunted management is not responsible and cannot be held liable for any actions of any ghosts or spirits on this premise that That's amazing. I love that he was like, you know what? Fuck it, I will.
Yeah, I'll put up a sign. So by the late 90s, he seemed actually like a lot more accepting of the paranormal activity surrounding the nightclub.
And in the years since the suit, Bobby Mackey's Music World has been featured on a ton of television shows like Hard Copy, Geraldo, The Jerry Springer show. I don't really know how to fit into there, a haunting and a current affair.
And like other pods have covered the case. Actually, it was one of the first episodes I listened to of, and that's why we drink when I'm covered it.
I love that. And I was like, Oh, when I was doing it, I was like, why have I heard the story before? And then I was like, Oh shit.
So listen to their to their episode too because it's fantastic and tons of articles have been written about it but today the club still operates as uh out of its original location on linking plank but customers they can only expect to get a beer and hear some music on fridays and saturdays they can still catch bobby mackie and his best damn band that's what they're called holy shit play their regular set but only on the weekend i want to go the rest of the week is reserved for haunted tours hell yeah paranormal investigations and even sleepovers haunted ones who's in i'm obsessed with the fact that bobby mackie just leaned the fuck in. He spent like 20 years essentially being like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
And then was like, eh, fuck it. Another thing about Bobby Mackey, he's going to lean in.
Eventually. Eventually.
Eventually. Now, sadly, Carl no longer works at the club, but he does continue to share his experiences of the hauntings.
Janet continued managing the club. Actually, she did step foot in there again until the early 2000s.
But unfortunately, she did pass away in February of 2009 after a long illness. Oh, Janet.
And she died in the home of their daughter. I know.
Their daughter that was born at six months. Yes.
Isn isn't that nuts full circle now bobby maintains that he has still never had a paranormal experience in the bar or anywhere else and he's another thing about bobby he's he sticks to his word he's never gonna have an experience no and he's never gonna believe in ghosts he still doesn't when it comes to the club he says i don't know if the place got a hold of me, but if that's a supernatural experience, then so be it. I'm going to stay here.
Bobby fucking Mackie. A legend.
A true legend. I don't really know much else about him other than his magic world of wonder.
I literally have never even, I don't know a damn thing about him except for this. And Johanna now.
Johanna, Johanna. It'll in your head go listen to it right i'm obsessed with this story a story with more twists and turns than anything than i could have ever expected and like weirdly fun there's so much fun hauntings the true tragedy is the pearl brian story which which like.
That's not so good. I did not see that coming.
No. Right? Like that is a wild story.
Wild story. And Johanna.
And Johanna, if she exists. She does.
How dare you question her existence. But yeah.
Yeah. The Pearl Bryan one really shocked me.
I mean, that's brutal. And the fact that they, the killers got an Alonzo there, literally were like, yeah,

we're going to haunt this place forever.

Holy shit. Oh, fuck.
Spooky.

But then I'm also like, has anyone

opened that well?

Girl.

I'm sorry.

It's okay. I'm just kidding.

Girl.

I was just kidding I love us that's so funny why has anyone opened that well and like no but like it's like I wonder I know you know like I've seen I looked up pictures of it it looks like it's sealed off and I'm well. Someone opened that shit.
I put something down there to go like a long camera on a string. On a string.
Go tell me what's down there. Right? I want to know.
Because I want her to also like maybe you could like reunite her head with her body. I know.
Give her like a proper burial. Yeah.
Like I want to know. I want to know.
Well, maybe hopefully i can update it someday let's update we can unseal it and i'm like who is are there descendants of pearl that would be like you know they deserve to have that done i know i need to find this out let's find out let's figure it out wow that was a wild tale a wild tale and um dave is a big fan of story. So he did like a fucking incredible job on the research with Dave.

And I love him.

I love Dave too.

And I love him.

And we hope you keep listening.

And we hope you keep it weird.

Keep it as weird as Bobby Mackey.

I fucking love this guy.

He seems great.

Yeah.

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