Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 41: Live from EW Popfest

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Speaker 1 and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. It is Wednesday and that could only mean one thing.

Speaker 1 It means we're going to recap one of our old episodes with all new commentary, updates, insights, you know, all of it. Anything.
Today we're recapping episode 41 that came out on November 3rd, 2016.

Speaker 1 And at the time, we entitled it live from the EW Pop Fest. So as you can can tell, we put a lot of time into naming this one for you guys.

Speaker 1 And for everyone who doesn't know, the Entertainment Weekly Pop Fest was a two-day event. It was held in downtown Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 There were panels with stars and creators from movies, TV, music, and podcasts. It was a really fun event to be invited to because I feel like that was the first time we were like.

Speaker 1 acknowledged as part of this community. Yeah.
Well, and it's Entertainment Weekly, which is a big deal. That was like, it's like getting invited up to the big table.
I don't know where.

Speaker 1 At a wedding, it doesn't work that way at weddings. But just like that kind of like, this is kind of the big time.
The people there, you know, stars like Jennifer Aniston, Joe Jonas, T.J.

Speaker 1 Miller, they were all there promoting their latest thing. And as we have talked about on the show, our writer Allison Agosti and I were writing on a TV show that was also featured there.

Speaker 1 So I went there with you one day that week and then went back as an audience member later on to like support the show.

Speaker 1 so i had a full 360 experience what show is it it was called making history i think it's on hulu or it's on some streaming platform oh can i also say about this episode that there's a photo from this

Speaker 1 that has been since then on my like google image search page that i hate so much and have hated for fucking nine years because I'm slouching. I mentioned I have sciatica in it.

Speaker 1 So I'm slouching really fucking low. We're in like little director's chairs or whatever.
Yeah. And that image just like kills me every time I fucking see it.
Isn't that awful? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Kind of like, it's like, look, pictures are pictures. There's now a billion jillion of them always around.
I know, but that one's always around. No one can picture.
I know, I know.

Speaker 1 You know, that's like the first eight years for me, I was just like, this is a nightmare that will never end. Every picture was worse than the last one.
And I'm just like, let's take a picture.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, can I get a fucking leg up here? I am, couldn't be older, couldn't be more resistant. I'm from the 90s, where no one had pictures of fucking anything ever.
Everything is a secret.

Speaker 1 I love pictures. And I'm slouching so hard.
I could hear my mom every time I look at it saying, Sit up, Georgia.

Speaker 1 Janet, please. Janet, could you just give us one EW Pop Fest? Can we just

Speaker 1 let us have one Pop Fest? Well, let's listen to the intro to episode 41, live from EW Pop Fest.

Speaker 1 Hi, guys.

Speaker 2 Welcome to day two of EW's Pop Fest. You guys having a good time so far?

Speaker 2 Good. I hope you guys have been having fun at the other events and there's still more to come tonight.

Speaker 2 But I'm so excited to welcome this next show because it's actually my personal favorite, favorite show. And I'm sure I'm hoping there's a lot of murderinos in the crowd because I am one.
All right.

Speaker 2 So, without further ado, I am so pleased to welcome my favorite murder with Georgia Hardstock and Karen Kilgreth.

Speaker 2 What is this?

Speaker 2 Where are you going? What is this?

Speaker 2 Where are we?

Speaker 2 This is our stage show. Karen's gonna.

Speaker 2 I'm gonna do a song by JoJo right now.

Speaker 2 I know you wish you could be outside watching her and supporting her. Was that really Jojo? Yes, it was.

Speaker 2 I thought you were kidding. I never joke about JoJo.

Speaker 1 I can't.

Speaker 3 I thought it was like, that's Jojo.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I don't know who anyone is.
You guys are so cute, all of you. Hi, thanks.

Speaker 2 Did you have to wait in a line and stuff for this?

Speaker 2 That's so important. We're super into that.
Yeah. We should have made them wait longer.
I mean, I do have to pee, but whatever. Do not do it.

Speaker 2 They're like, ha ha. No.
Start it now. She's crying.
Hurry up and start. This is really freaking rat.

Speaker 2 Guys,

Speaker 2 this is weird because we never sit in chairs like this. Uh-uh.

Speaker 2 We're not used to being directors of any kind. Very bright.
It's bright. It's cold.

Speaker 2 Are we in Antarctica or something? I'm sweating.

Speaker 2 No, I'm sweating. Are you really? Have you noticed that this entire day that's like raining? I haven't had a jacket on.
I have noticed, but I didn't want to criticize you. Criticize me?

Speaker 2 I'm fucking, I'm always hot. What's your deal? Hold on a second before the murders.
Georgia, what's your medical problem?

Speaker 2 You know, I mean,

Speaker 3 where do we start?

Speaker 2 Right?

Speaker 2 I mean, let's start with sciatica and end with chronic anxiety

Speaker 2 for fun.

Speaker 2 Is Stephen here? Yay! Steven Raymorn! There he is. Steven.
That's a razor. Sound engineer.
Yay, he's blushing.

Speaker 2 Look at him. Can't have a chair.
Try to grab his mustache.

Speaker 2 Is Elvis here? Someone do the meow. It'd be really fun.
Yay! Would it be weird if he came walking up this aisle? How did you get down here, Uber?

Speaker 2 We always, whenever Vince and I are out and we say the word cookie, it's always like, is he going to come out here? Yeah, it'd be funny.

Speaker 2 I was going to put cross-eyed on this, cross-eyed on this cat shirt that I'm wearing, but I didn't. I'm not even, I just didn't.
You just didn't.

Speaker 2 Too sick. So I'm supposed to breathe into the microphone all the time? Yeah, definitely exhale.
That's what Jojo does. She sings a line.
She inhales.

Speaker 2 And then it's just a big sigh of how hard show business is. Oh, this is rough.
You guys.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 Yeah, go. We're honored to be here.

Speaker 2 If you're not sure if you wandered in and you're from Denmark, this is the podcast, My Favorite Murder,

Speaker 2 where we, Georgia Hardstark, and I, Karen Kilgariff, talk about our favorite murders, tell each other true crime stories that we like. We don't necessarily say research them 100%,

Speaker 2 or we're not trying to be experts of any kind. Most people that are into this stuff really are experts.
God bless their souls. They let us know when we fall down.
They sure do. They sure, sure do.

Speaker 2 But listen, if you're here to have a good time, then you've come to the, come to a place. You've come to a really cold, bright place.

Speaker 2 You might be dead.

Speaker 2 Which is thematically appropriate. Do you ever wonder that when you start walking? Like I was walking up here and I'm like, this can't be real.
I'm probably dead.

Speaker 2 Again, chronic anxiety. Possible.
Although it would be a huge relief. Emphasis.
Then I couldn't do anything wrong.

Speaker 2 Do you ever get into a situation and you're like, what's the most embarrassing thing I could do right now? And like, get scared that you're going to do it? For sure. What's yours right now?

Speaker 2 Well, we were just back. no brag we were just back in the uh i like to call it the heineken lounge it's where they keep it's like the green room where they keep talent before they go and do their

Speaker 2 so we kind of stood there with our purses on our shoulders super uncomfortable like

Speaker 2 and um my thing in that situation is like uh you think you know somebody so you're like hey

Speaker 2 that is not them like that in the heineken lounge would have been death my thing is they they then don't know who i am that i've met them a hundred years.

Speaker 2 Like the just happened, actually, when I was like, hey, and then I had to go Georgia. Like, because I saw the look on her face.
Yeah. And I was like, oh, God, I've been there.

Speaker 2 But we've met like 17 times. You should maybe know who I am.
Yeah, but nobody does. That's just a matter of time.
I know. I'm not special.
No, and I'm not either.

Speaker 2 Listen, if you're not special, neither am I. But then when someone does see you and gets this, like, like Erin Gibson from Throwing Shade, I want

Speaker 2 here pretty soon. Yeah.
Fucking best. She saw me and like opened her arms and her face lit up.
And I was like, thank you so much. Like her, oh my God.
She was wearing a lot of eyeshadow though.

Speaker 2 So maybe it was just that. She thought it was someone else.
It was just covering her. She was wearing a lot of eyeshadow in her eyeballs.

Speaker 2 Once she wiped her irises away, she was like, oh, I don't know you. That's not Liza Monelli.
Who the fuck is that? Bye.

Speaker 2 Her and Brian Safi, thank fucking God. We're like, hi.
We're very kind to me. Yeah.
No, you, you were okay. Thank you.
I get scared. It's a lot of funny comedians that.

Speaker 2 You told me that you had news about your dad, but you wanted to save it until we were

Speaker 2 doing this. I did.
And I wrote dad and RV, and here's the reason. Okay.
So, okay, we're doing the Chicago Podcast Festival soon.

Speaker 2 And I'm big timing and bringing my mom and her boyfriend along because they never go on trips. And it's like, that's not a thing they do.

Speaker 2 And I have a lot of miles from our credit card, from our wedding. I thought you were going to say have a lot of money.
No. Which would have been so baller awesome.
I don't.

Speaker 2 I have a lot of miles from the credit card I opened and the debt I racked up to pay for my wedding. God bless America.
So I'm bringing them to Chicago. Like they're staying in our hotel room.

Speaker 2 It's not, I'm not like big timing it that much. You started the story by saying you were big timing.

Speaker 2 I'm big timing them by bringing them so they can see that I, that there's a 900-seat theater and then they'll love me more. Oh, great.
You know what I mean? Good.

Speaker 2 What a great Christmas this is going to be. We're Jewish.
It doesn't matter. Oh, that's right.

Speaker 2 So then I, so then I had to tell my dad that I'm bringing my mom and her boyfriend to the city he was born in.

Speaker 2 I know. And he.
No, they're divorced, right? Oh, wait, yeah. That would be weird too.
That would have been awful. He also didn't know about the boyfriend or that his marriage had ended.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like 25 years ago. So I had to tell him that.
And I was like, but you just went to Chicago, right? So it's okay. And he's like, no.

Speaker 2 I thought he had just gone. So I wasn't going to bring him.
And now it's like, okay. So then he said, All right.
Well, do me a favor. If you go to Las Vegas or New York, I want to come.

Speaker 2 So bring him if we go there. Okay.
He's a real party animal. Nice.

Speaker 2 And then he said, and, you know, when you get really up there, just like a small, nice RV

Speaker 2 trailer.

Speaker 1 He requested something for If We Ever Get Rich.

Speaker 2 Like an R.

Speaker 2 A small, nice RV. Let's see.
Those don't exist.

Speaker 2 Marty, I hate to be the one to tell you. It has to be three city blocks long.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 He got like, he got, he put a fucking thing in there. And my sister was there.
So there's like a witness that I said, yes. Yeah.
No. So you're dead.
I know.

Speaker 2 The funny thing is, it's already on the list when I like daydream about how I'm going to take care of my parents if I ever, you know, win the lottery. I mean, an RV is not too bad.

Speaker 2 No, that's all he wants. So I.

Speaker 2 Well, in a stark contrast,

Speaker 2 I found out that my dad has listened to this podcast, which is my fear.

Speaker 2 Because my dad, who talks like a foul mouth sailor, anytime I say even like shit or something in passing as an over 40 woman, he's always like, hey, watch it, like gets really mad.

Speaker 2 And of course, on this one, we like, we like celebrate the word fuck. Like we say it as if our lives depend on it.
And I, that would infuriate him like crazy.

Speaker 2 So I've never told him how to find it or what. I'm always like real vague about the name

Speaker 2 when he asks about it.

Speaker 2 And it's called the fuck word murder mystery. That's right.
That's right.

Speaker 2 So my sister texted me and said, dad found out we're, we're all, because my sister and two of our childhood friends are also going to Chicago. We're just making it like a weird clanny event.

Speaker 2 My sister and Adrian and Audrey are all going because they love drinking in Chicago. That's the main reason.
That's why my mom is going to. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So it's going to be, they're going to have a great time.

Speaker 2 But my dad found out that they're all going because he told my sister he tried to listen to the podcast. And when my sister said, what do you mean you tried to? And he goes, eh, they talk too much.

Speaker 2 That's what a podcast, what if a podcast was just not talking the whole time? Just like stony silence, like we're in a fight.

Speaker 2 Just like the silent treatment. Yes.
Our new podcast. Yeah.
So if you ever want to be a stand-up comedian, you just need parents who truly are not fans of yours. That's, I would say that's step one.

Speaker 2 My parents and my grandma, who was like 104 years old at the time, like gathered together to watch. the episode of Drunk History I was on.
And like they loved it and were supported.

Speaker 2 Like my family, they don't give a fuck. It's not a good time for you to tell me the story right now.
It's not, it's not a a good time.

Speaker 2 My family loves me so much.

Speaker 2 Have a great Hanukkah or whatever. He just wants to picture you as like the sweet baby angel that he thinks she was.
Thinks she was.

Speaker 2 And I had too many of these plastic cups of wine. Look at that.
Did that even have a little tiny wine? That's plastic.

Speaker 2 That fucking green room. Green room.

Speaker 2 I put one in my purse. Green room egg.

Speaker 2 Is it plastic? It's totally plastic. So you can bring it to a park.
Incredibly.

Speaker 2 Incredibly hometown.

Speaker 2 And my family knows I'm a fucking lunatic. They're just glad I'm alive.
That's the only thing. I am too.
Thank y'all.

Speaker 2 All right. Should we get into this? Oh, by the way, this is for some reason.
As I was leaving my house, I didn't want to bend my papers.

Speaker 2 And so I picked up the Mystic Places Time Life series book that Stephen got us. I don't know if you heard about that.
It was a, we talked about it on the last podcast.

Speaker 2 And so just to prove that we are not liars and we don't lie about gifts or things that Stephen gives us or anything Stephen's involved in. Except you didn't tell me and I didn't bring mine.

Speaker 2 So I might be a liar. Oh, that's right.
That's a cliffhanger. You'll have to find out next up.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 2 You want, okay, so let's tell everyone our thoughts behind all this. Oh, okay.
So since we are at the EW Ball Fest, what is this?

Speaker 2 Where are we? The Entertainment Weekly Pop Fest, we thought. We thought it would be cool to do entertainment murders.
Yeah. Entertainment-based murders? That got a lot of murmurs.

Speaker 2 I knew it would. I knew they'd murmur.
We're good.

Speaker 1 Okay, there it was. Our names being mispronounced the first

Speaker 1 time.

Speaker 1 Many times.

Speaker 1 I mean, that is a funny thing. Oh, we just did get an award where they misspelled your name, your first name on it.
Yeah, they did. That was pretty funny.
I mean,

Speaker 1 mistakes happen, whatever. AI.
Let's blame AI. And I get so nervous when I'm announcing things too that are like,

Speaker 1 I could mispronounce Smith and be

Speaker 1 you know what I mean? Well, that's exactly the time you second guess yourself. Just like when you see a friend that you know and you go to say hi to them and then you're like, is his name Steven?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Or is it Steve? I definitely know his name, but what if I'm wrong? Yes.
I usually just immediately tell the person that that's what is happening in my brain and they don't usually like it.

Speaker 1 And it doesn't work and you shouldn't do it. Don't do it.
It's not a recommendation. So what's hilarious is that Jojo is performing at the same time as us.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And we mentioned, because you can hear it

Speaker 1 in our little room, because we had this like little, it wasn't a conference room, even it was like there was like partitions that had been put up for the festival.

Speaker 1 They had to break up a bunch of conference rooms, I think, and make them like, what, what would you say? There's 100 people in that room or 50 people in that room?

Speaker 1 I would say it was closer to 50, but I'm really bad at that. Well, like five across, 10 back.
Yes, and then some people standing in the back. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So it was a small audience of people who were like, it was like a Comic-Con for

Speaker 1 like TV and movie people. Yeah, exactly.
So it was very intimate with Jojo. Playing with you.
With JoJo right next door.

Speaker 1 Do you want a JoJo update? Because

Speaker 1 I do have one for you.

Speaker 1 Allison went and looked some stuff up. So I couldn't stop laughing that I.
Called that it was JoJo. Yeah.
Like out of the blue that way. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then I remembered she was on, and maybe I told the story real time, but she was on Ellen when I I worked on Ellen.

Speaker 1 She was literally like 14 years old, and she had this hit song, and she was such a good singer, and she was such a badass.

Speaker 2 And do you remember that song?

Speaker 1 It was like she was moving out from her boyfriend's house or something. We were like, you are literally in seventh grade.
What is happening?

Speaker 1 So I always loved JoJo because she really was, it seemed like she was a real deal to me. Like she had the talent there.
Yeah. Exactly.
She had the range.

Speaker 1 So she had taken 10 years off because she got in a big fight with her record label. So this was her first return to like entertaining again, which is kind of amazing.

Speaker 1 This thing that we were at was the in 2016. She had like, she stopped performing in 2006.
I love the young women in entertainment who aren't playing the part of like, I don't know, daddy.

Speaker 1 Instead, they're kind of like, I've been divorced twice. And it's like, no, you have not.
What are you doing? Like singing those songs.

Speaker 1 But since that time, she made her Broadway debut in 2024 in Moulin Rouge. She played Sateen.

Speaker 1 She also released the same year, she released a memoir called Over the Influence, which was an unflinching look at her journey through child stardom, legal battles, and personal struggles.

Speaker 1 Damn, I love that. Family title.
Oh, that's a good one. Over the Influence, JoJo.
And then she released a new EP this year

Speaker 1 called NGL. Not going to lie.
Wow. Karen is a fucking Jojo Siwa stan.
Who knew? This is entirely Allison going and being like, I'm going to give you an update for JoJo. But you know, this isn't.

Speaker 1 Jojo is not Jojo Siwa. Those are two different people.
Wait, okay, I was worried about that this whole time. Yeah.
No, it's Jojo Siwa's that blonde girl that's from like the Disney channel that's

Speaker 1 the crazy dancer. Jojo literally looks like she is from the wrong side of the tracks, eyeliner girl.
She had that song, Get Out, when she was like 13 or 14 years old.

Speaker 1 Get out, Jojo. Check out Jojo.
Oh my God. I didn't know that was two different people.
Yes. I thought you were in Jojo Siwa.

Speaker 1 How many Jojo's could there be on on the disney channel the answer is a ton that's she yeah she kind of looks like yeah i like it okay all right now i get it i thought you were about the girl who said that she invented gay pop like last year and everyone

Speaker 1 jojo seewa said that sewa yeah yeah okay I get it now. Wow.
I bet everyone that ever had a hit during the disco era really disagrees with that. Oh my God.
I thought they were the same person.

Speaker 1 I feel like someone's mom who's like, I love that JoJo. I've been listening.
And it's like Jojo Siwa. That Jojo is so talented.
She sings. She can dance.
She has every color hair. She's tall.

Speaker 1 She's short. I'm so embarrassed.

Speaker 1 Who cares? Okay. So, yeah, that was playing.
Now I know. Now I can picture it.
Yeah. Jojo Siwa.
Full detail.

Speaker 1 But it is, I think, important to say, aside from all that, like, so we're trying to paint the picture for you guys of what it was like to do this because, of course, we're honored to do it.

Speaker 1 But then once you get there, it's like doing a nooner at a college where you're like, I'm excited to be making money as a comedian, but this sucks wildly. And they were like, no one knows who I am.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
It's like that audience was happy that we were there, but they were so quiet that it was just like, are we just supposed to power through this? And so that's kind of what we did.

Speaker 1 Because there were no my favorite Murder Live shows really yet. Wherever.
Yeah. So I also want to say that in it, I talk about my mom and stepdad and bringing them to Chicago.

Speaker 1 And I did that and it was great. It was okay.
I always told my dad that when I made it, I would get him a nice little RV. And Vince and I did stick to our word.

Speaker 1 And we got him a cute little conversion van. That's all he wanted.
We offered him like a real RV. And he was like, no, I want to be inconspicuous when spending the night in a parking lot.

Speaker 1 Like, it's just, he's living his dream. So

Speaker 1 he is Jack Kerouac on the road. Yes.
That's Marty's life.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 1 He's like a poet wanderer man. Right.
But with a lot of desert hot springs involved. Yes.

Speaker 1 It makes sense to me because having driven in some RVs and some kind of sleeper vans like that, the van is so much better because you get the same, once you're inside, you're just inside and it's nice when it's like smaller because you're warmer.

Speaker 1 Those big ones are just kind of like hard to drive. They're hard to park anywhere, to drive, to navigate.
Yeah, he's so good. They take down all the banners.
Right. Every banner gets ripped down.

Speaker 1 So let's get into George's story about Lana Turner.

Speaker 1 This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Okay, let's talk holiday shopping.
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Goodbye. Goodbye.
Don't miss Netflix's new series, The Beast in Me.

Speaker 1 It's a riveting psychological thriller from the team that brought you homeland.

Speaker 1 The Beast in Me follows acclaimed author Aggie Wiggs, played by Claire Daines, who has withdrawn from public life after the tragic death of her young son.

Speaker 1 She's unable to write and is a ghost of her former self. But Aggie finds an unlikely subject for a new book when the house next door is bought by Niall Jarvis, played by Matthew Reese.

Speaker 1 Niall is a famed real estate mogul who was once the prime suspect in his wife's disappearance.

Speaker 1 Horrified and fascinated by this man, Aggie finds herself compulsively hunting for the truth, chasing his demons while fleeing her own.

Speaker 1 It's a game of cat and mouse that sets them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The Beast and Me now playing only on Netflix.
You will not want to miss this. Goodbye.
Goodbye.

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Go bye. Bye.

Speaker 2 So, you want to go first this week? Who's I might? I think I'm first. I want to be first because I'm scared we got the same one.

Speaker 2 And then we're going to

Speaker 2 ask you yours.

Speaker 2 Yes. No, but I I mean, jump right in if we did.
Okay. Does the person that the story revolves around, does her name start with Lana? No.

Speaker 2 Okay. Lana Turner.
Everyone knows her and loves her. The way I said that was like, you're going to get an applause break.

Speaker 2 Lana Turner, motherfucker. I realized as, thank you.
As I realized I said that maybe nobody here knows who that is. They're under 30.
So it was a possibility.

Speaker 2 She was born in 1921, so that was a long time ago. She was this like, like film noir actress, like hot blonde, like bombshell chick who was like the leading actress in like crazy dark films, right?

Speaker 2 Um, like noir films, like film noir, like noir films, but you were translating it from the French into just dark for the American

Speaker 2 American. Film noir means dark as fuck.

Speaker 2 She

Speaker 2 was discovered in 1937, and this is like probably bullshit, right? But like the story is that she was sipping a Coke at the counter at the Top Hat Cafe

Speaker 2 on sunset boulevard and the founder of the hollywood reporter which i just realized might be competition with entertainment weekly uh

Speaker 2 you can't say that name is like giving us the cutoff sign just goes dark in here and then when it lights come up we're gone it's super hot all of a sudden

Speaker 2 so apparently i mean come on is that true she's eating a fucking no sandwich no those are all lies that's all publicist shit she was like i don't want to get gross um or do i okay so she was 16 apparently signed to a contract at Warner Brothers, and then she became an ingenue.

Speaker 2 Do you guys hear that loud music through the wall? No, it's just you. Oh.

Speaker 2 Okay, blonde bombshell, leading actress, reputation as a glamorous femme fatale. Femme fatale.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 No, I wasn't correcting you. No, but you were right.

Speaker 2 She was nominated for an Academy Award in 1957 for Peyton Place. What I'm saying is big time.
You know what I mean? Like gorgeous, big time.

Speaker 2 While she kicked at, well, she kicked ass at her career, I wrote, she sucked at relationships. Oh, no, I know.
Probably all been there. Ladies and gentlemen,

Speaker 2 she dated a lot,

Speaker 2 changed partners often, and never shied away from the topic of how many lovers she'd had in her lifetime.

Speaker 2 And then I wrote, which is fine for men, but if a woman does it, it makes everyone uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 Bullshit. Fuck the page, you know.

Speaker 2 And then she said, I kind of want to make you read her voice. Let's do it.
Are you good? Okay. So it's right here

Speaker 2 in quotes.

Speaker 2 All those years that my image on the screen as sex goddess, well, that makes me laugh. Sex was never important to me.
I'm sorry if that disappoints you, but it's true.

Speaker 2 Romance, yes, romance was very important. But I never liked being rushed into bed, and I never allowed it.

Speaker 2 I would put it off as long as I could, and I gave in only when I was in love or thought I was.

Speaker 2 Which, again,

Speaker 2 take a bow.

Speaker 2 Jojo. I actually put a lot of quotes in this just so you

Speaker 2 could do actual. I should have had you prep your voice before this.
What if I get discovered at EW Pop Fest? Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 Eating a tuna fish sandwich with a cattle.

Speaker 2 You can do the voice. Thank you.

Speaker 2 Which, again, is bullshit. She fucked immediately, probably, and then dated them.
And it's fine. It's fine.
Listen, fucking me. Forget to do what you want is the idea.
Like, she can be like,

Speaker 2 I'd like to screw, but only when I, like, if I, if I, like, if I have to. Romance.
If I, if I'm, I never allow it. Allow it.
It's fine. That was my diadreg.
She's dead. It doesn't matter.
About.

Speaker 2 You just.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry. Spoiler alert.
Fuck. Spoiler alert.
She gets murdered at the end of this. Oh, she doesn't.
Is that disappointing? Oh, did she murder someone? No. You don't know the story? Oh, good.

Speaker 2 I'm excited. Okay, great.
I'm glad.

Speaker 2 All right. 1942 marries her second husband, actor, and restaurateur, Joseph Stephen Crane.
They have a daughter, ended up being her only kid, Cheryl Crane, in 1943. Then they divorced in 44.

Speaker 2 And then I wrote, okay, now this story gets dark. Great.
You ready for this? Yes. Her fourth husband was actor Lex Barker, and she married him in 1953.

Speaker 2 And then in Cheryl's memoir, Detour, A Hollywood Story, which came out way later, Cheryl Crane claims that Barker, the husband, repeatedly molested and raped her. That news.

Speaker 2 Saying that at age 10, he lured her into the sauna, which sounds like a nightmare to begin with. That's like with your stepdad and a fucking sauna.
And just kind of saunas anyway, because

Speaker 2 have you ever gone to like the one at Burke Williams and then the door closes and you're like, what if it locks forever?

Speaker 2 Separate from a creep being in there with you. Just the girl who died in the cryogenic freezer.
Oh, yeah, that's right. Dude, what a fucking nightmare.
It's a different episode. Sorry.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Told her it was up. Oh, God.
It's like, how gross do you want me to get? He exposes himself to her in a sauna, like sweaty dick. It's just got like what a pervert, perverted sweaty.

Speaker 2 Then he starts raping her a lot. But when Lana Turner found out about it, she held a gun to Barker's head while he slept and thought about killing him.
She didn't.

Speaker 2 And in the morning, she kicked his ass out, which is great because a lot of times back then they were like, you're a lying liar. Yes.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 They divorced, but to avoid scandal, no criminal action was taken against Barker. Fuck that shit, man.
Yeah. That's old Hollywood.
I mean, that's fucking current Hollywood, probably, too.

Speaker 2 Let's not talk about that. Oh, right.

Speaker 2 Actors are the best

Speaker 2 people. It's so fun and light.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 and they never worked again.

Speaker 2 Our last appearance was at E.W. Cop Fest, 2016.

Speaker 2 So, okay, so Cheryl is 13, and her mom starts dating Johnny Stampanado. Does he sound like a bad guy? No, not at all.
You're wrong. Does he have a big white suit? Like, like...
Stampanado.

Speaker 2 Like, is he in Talking Heads? Is that kind of thing? Or like, he looks like, why can't I think of his name? Who's the guy that hosts Family Feud? Steve? Harvey.

Speaker 2 Probably looks like that. The audience never likes a joke if they're the ones that have to provide the punchline.
I've learned that over the years. They think you're lazy.
Uh-huh. But we're not.

Speaker 2 And crazy.

Speaker 2 We've just, I've just, yeah, I've pickled my brain. White wine.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Tell me about Johnny Stampanado. Well, he was a, well, here, he's a bodyguard for Mickey Cohen, the famous gangster.
Bad guy.

Speaker 2 And he was an enforcer for the crime family. So in case you guys don't know, Mickey Cohen was like a hardcore gang gangster, like gang land gangster.

Speaker 2 And in her memoir, Cheryl describes him as a B-picture good looks, thick set, powerfully built, and soft-spoken, and talked in short sentences to cover a poor grasp of grammar and spoke in a deep, baritone voice.

Speaker 2 With friends, he seldom smiled or laughed out loud, but seemed always coiled, holding himself in, had watchful, hooded eyes that took in more than he wanted anyone to notice. Sherry,

Speaker 2 business-like than her mother, Lana,

Speaker 2 apparently. Yeah, I'm doing all different characters today.
I love it. Thank you.

Speaker 2 So he is a jealous, abusive man. And one time he got super pissed because Lana was filming another time, another place

Speaker 2 in London with Sean Connery, who, like, man, he's hot. He's hot back then.

Speaker 2 And he got super jealous, like, showed up in London. And then they got in a fight.
He choked her. And she had to miss three weeks of filming because her fucking vocal cords were screwed up.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 Like, he's a fucking dick. Well,

Speaker 2 yeah. They're serious.
Yeah. He later shows up on set with a gun and threatens her and Connery.
Motherfucking, Sean Connery overpowers him, grabs the gun, and beats his ass.

Speaker 2 Sends him fucking running from the set.

Speaker 2 Sean Connery. Sean Connery next month on Entertainment Weekly.

Speaker 2 Let's see. And then later, but then later, he holds a razor blade to Lana Turner's face and says that he'll disfigure her and like end her career.
So he's a fucking dick. Back in L.A.,

Speaker 2 Turner, Lana Turner tells Cheryl, her daughter, who's 13, ready? No way. Lana Turner.

Speaker 2 I'm going to end it with him tonight, baby. It's going to be a rough night.
Are you prepared for it? Super chill. That's someone's mother? Yeah.
Like, send her to fucking.

Speaker 2 Mom, I'm trying to watch TV. Get out of here.
What would they be watching back then? Like Dick Van Dyke? My mother, the car.

Speaker 2 There you go. Dead silence.
Like, I thought that was funny. I thought I made it up.
Yeah. Isn't that from arrested development?

Speaker 2 Turn it. Okay.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 Samponato comes over and when she told him it was over, you ready again? Do you want me to start going? I'm going.

Speaker 2 He grabbed me by the arms and said, started shaking me and cursing very badly. And he's saying that if I, if I, if he said jump, I would jump.
If he said hop, I would hop.

Speaker 2 And if I had to do anything, this is why I had you do it. And everything he told me, he'd cut my face or cripple me.
And if I went beyond that, he would kill me and my daughter and my mother.

Speaker 2 This is why you're the actor of the world. Here's the thing.

Speaker 2 Anytime you're doing a voice halfway through, you want to give up. Oh, just power through.
Okay. That's my advice.
All right. I guess.
But here's what I love. He said: if I say jump, you'll jump.

Speaker 2 And if I say hop, you'll hop. That's a hip-hop song, isn't it?

Speaker 2 If I say jump, you sit.

Speaker 2 I'm just saying, why doesn't he pick other stuff that's different than jumping and hopping? Like, he could have total control over this woman.

Speaker 2 If I say, give me all your money, you give me all your money. Yeah.
Or just shut up for a while. But instead, it's hopping and jumping.
Hopping and jumping. Sounds exhausting.
Take a nap.

Speaker 2 So she breaks away and says, Don't ever touch me again. I am, I am absolutely finished.
This is so bad. This is the end, and I want to get you out.

Speaker 2 And then she says, I was walking toward the bedroom door and he was right behind me. And I opened it and my daughter came in.
I swear it was so fast.

Speaker 2 Truthfully, I thought she had hit him in the stomach. The best I can remember.
They came together and then they parted. Wait a second.
I still never saw the blade.

Speaker 2 The daughter killed Johnny Stampanado? Wait, did you guys know about this?

Speaker 2 What the a 13-year-old? 13 years old. Fuck.
Fucking stands at the bedroom door. She had come in earlier because she heard her mom getting beat up.
And her mom was like, please go back to your room.

Speaker 2 Like, I'm fine. This is taken care of.

Speaker 2 And she said she doesn't remember going down to the kitchen and grabbing a butcher knife. And she stood by the door and begged her mom to let her in.

Speaker 2 Finally, the mom lets her in and she fucking barrels past Lana Turner and stabs him in the fucking gut. And then he, um,

Speaker 2 let's see what, let's see. Oh, single time in the abdomen, slicing his kidney, and it struck the vertebrae and twisted upward, puncturing his aorta.
Whoa. She fucking went for it.
Wow.

Speaker 2 This badass little bitch. And there's photos of her.
And she's this like cute thing

Speaker 2 in taffeta. Cheryl, Cheryl.
She fucking defended her mother. Shit.
I mean, right?

Speaker 2 She was like,

Speaker 2 why didn't she get the spleen in there while she was at it? There was no,

Speaker 2 she hit so many key.

Speaker 2 She knew how to stem.

Speaker 1 Like, it's not just the thing.

Speaker 2 It's like a fucking thing, you know? It's like a ripping. But also, there's, to me, the first thing I think of is like, this is a child who's been put in danger by these

Speaker 2 strange men that keep coming into the house because of the mother. And the mother isn't safe.
And she's got to fucking like take action.

Speaker 2 But it's also probably this crazy thing of like, you know, this mother who you keep seeing making these mistakes that are affecting you as well and you're going to prove to your mom how much you care about her.

Speaker 2 Right. Like that you will do anything to take care of her.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, this like sad woman who had to had to be like through the industry and taken advantage of and bullshit at the fucking, having a Coke at the counter.

Speaker 2 Like she probably went through a lot more shit. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. Right.

Speaker 2 She wants to take care of her mom. I just like that when we get serious, there's some gorgeous house music to play behind.
I mean, I wonder if to set that mood.

Speaker 2 Yeah, this is very, this is actually, yeah, we become an NPR podcast where there's like, it's very, um, there's music in the background all the time. Just ambient music.
Ambient music.

Speaker 2 And it's like, it, it, it, yeah. Like JoJo's singing in the background.
So she fucking, oh,

Speaker 2 you're dancing. A little bit.
I thought you were pointing at me to like fucking finish.

Speaker 2 Can you go on? Wrap it. Fuck.
So she fucking stabs him. That's so And there were all these rumors.

Speaker 2 Like, there are all these, like, you know, everyone who likes to do a, what's it called when you have these conspiracy theories? A conspiracy theory. That Lana Turner actually,

Speaker 2 you know, sometimes you got to work through it on your own. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Found it out. Yes.
Make it come to you.

Speaker 2 Conspiracy theories that Lana Turner actually killed him and like made her daughter take the blame because she was 13 or 14 and she wouldn't get as much trouble. But then,

Speaker 2 let's see. So the police arrive.
Cheryl admits to the stabbing.

Speaker 1 She's taken a juvie.

Speaker 2 And then there's a coroner's interest in

Speaker 2 inquest.

Speaker 2 And in it, so there's like basically a trial to see if she should go to trial, I think was what it was, because she's a minor. And mobster Mickey Cohen, who is fucking big time.

Speaker 2 And this is when I invent Las Vegas. Yeah.
Yeah. And this is like when Silicon Valley.
You know that's Bugsy Siegel. Right.
Yes. They're all juviegs.

Speaker 2 Anyone in the mafia here today? Anyone?

Speaker 2 Anyone?

Speaker 2 Well, no, when they murder me at the end of this.

Speaker 2 Big time guy. And this is when Hollywood and the mob were kind of, you know, they needed each other in certain ways.
And so they were commingling.

Speaker 2 But he was the person who had identified Johnny's body at the morgue. So he had to testify.
Can you imagine having, like, being the lawyer who's about to fucking question a huge...

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's like, later days. But.

Speaker 2 Sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead.
Well, I was just going to say, was he there to like speak against Cheryl or were they just there to kind of state the facts?

Speaker 2 I think that they, I think that the, the mob was pissed off that she, that, that they, well, let me tell you what happened.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So Lana Turner testified and it's like, and the, in her best role yet, she explained what happened that night, which insinuates that she's fucking lying. Right.
You know.

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 and then so she testifies, and that's where all those quotes come in that you read earlier so brilliantly. Thank you.
You're welcome. Uh,

Speaker 2 then they the the jury takes less than half an hour and decides that Johnny Stompanado's death was a case of justifiable homicide. And so all these gang members are fucking pissed about that.

Speaker 2 And they said that Cheryl is acting out of fear for her life

Speaker 2 and for that of her mother. And they found that she is justified in using deadly force to stop him.
And everyone was like, someone said, this is the wall just. This is down.

Speaker 2 I'm trying hard to ignore it. When the fucking background music is louder than the laughter of the crowd, you're in a, there's a problem.
Well, the back of my head is shaking. So

Speaker 2 there's not a lot we can do, yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 2 just

Speaker 2 life, okay. So they were like, this is the first time someone has been convicted of their own murder, that kind of thing.
They were pissed off about it.

Speaker 2 Eventually, the family of Johnny sues Lana Turner for wrongful death.

Speaker 2 They settle out of court, which I always wonder: like, when you settle out of court, that kind of implies your guilt, or does it imply that you just didn't want to go through this huge, crazy trial?

Speaker 2 I mean, they're like, give me two grants, like $200,000. How much is a lot of money, man? Yeah,

Speaker 2 I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 I mean, I think it could just be whatever. It's like, either you're not going to win or you don't want to keep paying for a lawyer.
There's all kinds of reasons to do that.

Speaker 2 Basically, give me some money, which makes sense. I mean, if he was bringing money home for his mother and she's like, I don't have the source of income anymore.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But also you were maybe molesting my daughter.

Speaker 2 So it comes out later in Cheryl's memoir that, and she was quiet about it for years and years and finally came out with a memoir that details her molestation by her fucking, the second husband and says that Johnny was molesting her.

Speaker 2 Oh, no. I know.

Speaker 2 There were rumors that Lana Turner did it, but she takes the blame completely.

Speaker 2 Cheryl does? Yeah. Cheryl takes the blame completely.
She had stabbed him and also that he had been abusing her sexually.

Speaker 2 But this fucking badass bitch, she had some trouble years at a teen, like went to

Speaker 2 insane asylum and like was sent to

Speaker 2 boarding school and all this shit. And it was going very badly for her.

Speaker 2 And then she tried to commit suicide a couple times and then got her shit together and she became a successful businesswoman and real estate agent.

Speaker 2 She fucking kicked ass, had a, and then ended up having a really close relationship with her mom. Her mom

Speaker 2 came out of the closet and her mom completely Lana Turner supported her 100%.

Speaker 2 She's been with this woman for you know decades and she's this fucking awesome crazy awesome bitch who fucking killed her mom's abuser, right? That's so badass. So that's fucking

Speaker 2 it.

Speaker 2 Oh, thank you.

Speaker 2 This rare, the applause rarely happens in my living room. So this is so weird.
It's very satisfying. Steven will like do a silent clap.

Speaker 2 And then, and Elvis knows when the like the last person goes. Yes, but he doesn't.
He, yeah. He'll come out of the bedroom for that.
I just like watching you throw down your papers in total

Speaker 2 victory. You know, legal and otherwise.
I don't even know if like that was a good story, but I just act like it. It absolutely was.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 I mean, what a story. That is, it is one of the craziest kind of murder story, Hollywood murder stories there is, I would say.
It's really heartbreaking in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 Yeah. More so because that audience just didn't respond to us in any way, shape, or form.
They gave us nothing.

Speaker 1 And it was almost like a dry run for like the bigger shows because we expected nothing in that Chicago show. Oh, and then they it's like we paid every one of our dues at the EW Pop Fest, right?

Speaker 1 And then we got to go on to just have Beatles-style receptions every time we walked on stage. But you know who was in the front row from the very beginning, cheering us on? Who?

Speaker 1 Stephen Ray Morris, of course. Stephen! Stephen from the beginning.
And I'm sure he laughed solo because he does stuff like that. He's not afraid to like laugh when other people aren't.
It's like, so

Speaker 1 try to be the laugh starter. Yeah, because he's like a regular comedy, like comedy fan.
So he knows like

Speaker 1 how important it is. Yeah.
So

Speaker 1 Stephen. Yes.
Stephen sent me a text the other day and it had like five crows. There was a, did you, did he send you this? No, no.

Speaker 1 There was a flat screen TV that was sitting in the gutter and then like five crows just sitting in front of it. And he took a picture of that and sent it to me.
It said, these crows are watching TV.

Speaker 1 Steven. I was like, Stephen, Stephen, we spent like seven years of our lives together in the shit.

Speaker 1 I love it. Well, I have some case updates, surprisingly, since it's such an old case.
Good. We should really focus on what we're here to do.
Should we?

Speaker 1 I don't think I ended this story very well.

Speaker 1 So in February of 2024, last year, author Casey Sherman released A Murder in Hollywood, The Untold Story of Tinsel Town's Most Shocking Crime, which revisits the circumstances surrounding Johnny Stompanano's death.

Speaker 1 Sherman suggests that Lana Turner, rather than her daughter, which this was a theory, Cheryl may have been responsible for the stabbing, challenging the long-accepted narrative. Gotta blame somebody.

Speaker 1 Totally. And people are like, there were mixed

Speaker 1 opinions about that. So that's a book you can read if you want, A Murder in Hollywood.

Speaker 1 And then also, Cheryl Crane has occasionally participated in documentaries and interviews, providing her perspective on the events of 1958.

Speaker 1 Notably, she contributed to the 2016 documentary, Lana Turner. Oh, I'm not going to be able to say that.
Lane de Tronable.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Anyways, it offers insight.
Just look up Lana Turner. Turner.
It offers insights into her mother's life and the infamous incident. She's 81 years old now.

Speaker 1 She lives in Palm Springs with her wife, Joyce, the same partner I mentioned in my story. Like, bless her.
I hope she's living her very best life.

Speaker 1 And I love when like old people have retired to Palm Springs. It's such a

Speaker 1 nice place for people to

Speaker 1 totally, totally. So fancy.
Maybe my dad can park his RV outside of their. Yeah, he can get out there at the

Speaker 1 Lowe's parking lot and make some friends. Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. Now it's time for this story that I totally forgot about until I listened to this episode.
This is Karen's story. I mean, it's actually funny that we both did stories about children

Speaker 1 in these murderous circumstances. Isn't that weird? Because it wasn't supposed to be like that.
No, I think, but we were doing like Hollywood stories. Yeah.
I think maybe it's that thing of like,

Speaker 1 you know, in any kind of of fucked up family,

Speaker 1 it's like people that aren't doing it well. And then

Speaker 1 it's like in Schiller in a way more than it's just very Hollywood to have like an old lady that won't leave her son alone and like, you must bring me my pills. Right.

Speaker 1 Don't join a bowling league. Oh my God.
Okay. So here's Karen's story about the Wasp Woman.

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Speaker 2 Mine is also about a starlet, but she was no Lana Turner.

Speaker 2 Mine is the story of the Wasp Woman. Does anybody here know that one?

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 nobody does. And I'll tell you.

Speaker 2 For a second, it looked

Speaker 2 my first page was gone. I'm just like, how am I going to lie my way through the facts of the first page?

Speaker 2 Where everything

Speaker 2 told you that facts don't exist. We,

Speaker 2 just a sidebar, I just saw a clip. We were on a local news in Sacramento news story about,

Speaker 2 because we did the story of Dorothea Puente, who is an old lady who killed all the people in her boarding house.

Speaker 2 And for some reason, I think it's because it's almost Halloween, the Sacramento local news did a story on, they just kept going,

Speaker 2 a podcast. They like didn't use the name until they absolutely had it.
Oh, yeah. Is that because they didn't want to say murder? I don't know.
I thought they were being rude.

Speaker 2 But they were, no, they were just mostly focusing on the story of Dorothea Puntes as opposed to us. I'm sorry.
But they were saying, like,

Speaker 2 oh, it's my number. I got to go.
Five, six, seven, eight.

Speaker 2 Do you believe in love?

Speaker 2 Oh, we didn't tell you. We created a

Speaker 3 five.

Speaker 2 Five, six, seven, eight. And one, and two, and three.

Speaker 2 Improv dance.

Speaker 2 Why was I bragging bragging about that? Because, oh, because

Speaker 2 as I watch the clip, they start talking. And then I realized, like, this is, there's a woman behind a news desk holding papers about to talk about the story we did.

Speaker 2 And I was like, oh, God, I hope this is right. Like, honestly, we're like, it was actually, they didn't find a dead person.
They didn't. It wasn't a live person.

Speaker 2 It was a man named Don who was a Hallu. Yeah.
Very nerve-wracking.

Speaker 2 Anyway,

Speaker 2 all right. So my story is the Wasp Woman murder.
And this this is the death of

Speaker 2 a woman who is essentially, if you had to boil it down, a B movie star. Her name is Susan Cabot.
I'm assuming it's Cabot. It could be Cabot.
I hope it's not. Cabot sounds right.

Speaker 2 Cabot looks and sounds right.

Speaker 2 And she, essentially, the background on her,

Speaker 2 it's just going to be there the whole time. But

Speaker 2 what if we listened and it was like, oh my God, it's one direction. And we had to drop our mics and run out there.
Everyone, follow us, you guys. Everybody wants a name on.

Speaker 2 You know.

Speaker 2 I got most of my information for this story from an article by a guy named James Marison who writes on criminal element.com, which was a really good article

Speaker 2 that I ripped off.

Speaker 2 But you gave him credit.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 Basically, here's what happened. On the night of December 10th, 1986, the police got a call from 4601 Charmian Lane in the San Fernando Valley.
Anyone? Valley? Represent? Valley? Valley?

Speaker 2 It's where parents, it's hipster parents.

Speaker 2 Two people are like, yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2 sorry. We had a kid

Speaker 2 in the house. So the caller

Speaker 2 breathlessly identified himself as Timothy Roman, and he said that a burglar had broken into their house and attacked his mother and himself.

Speaker 2 Paramedics arrived four minutes later, by which time Timothy was waiting for them calmly outside the front door.

Speaker 2 And he told the two EMTs that he had been attacked and that his mother was in her bedroom and he believed that she was also injured. Let me guess.

Speaker 2 He only had cuts down the left side of his body from where he sat.

Speaker 2 As a right?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Fucking asshole.

Speaker 2 Give him a chance. We don't know anything about him yet.
Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.

Speaker 2 So. The EMTs went into the back, and his mother had been beaten to death with a weight,

Speaker 2 a bar, a dumbbell, and his mother was the movie star Susan Cabot.

Speaker 2 She, oh, now I transition into her. See, I tried to make this like good storytelling where, like, that's what happened, but then here's the person.

Speaker 2 But then I already started talking about her at the beginning. So it's now we're back to this part.

Speaker 2 God damn it, Karen. Unprofessional.

Speaker 1 That's what we.

Speaker 2 You know, Susan Cabot from such films as The Enforcer, The Prince Who Was a Thief, The Battle of Apache Pass, The Duel at Silver Creek, The Viking Women and the Sea Serpent. Heard of any of these.

Speaker 2 All your favorites from the 50s that you love so much. She was also in Machine Gun Kelly with Charles Bronson.
Okay, I know that.

Speaker 2 But her biggest role, and the one she's known best for, is a 1959 film called The Wasp Woman,

Speaker 2 where she was the lead, and she played an aging cosmetics executive named Janice Starlin, who unwisely injects herself with a rejuvenating serum derived from wasp enzymes, and it turns her into a lustful, murderous queen wasp.

Speaker 2 Now, if you have seen this, it's fucking amazing because they basically, the fly came out, and the fly was a huge hit.

Speaker 2 So, Roger Corman was trying to make a movie and basically get some of the action off the fly.

Speaker 2 And so, when Susan Cabot turns into the wasp woman, it looks like she just pulled a black panty hose over her head that has like two legs eggs on either side for eyes and like honestly pipe cleaners.

Speaker 2 I don't think anyone here knows what legs eggs are. Legs eggs.
I know legs eggs are. One person is sober.

Speaker 2 Hi.

Speaker 1 There used to be panty hose that came in eggs.

Speaker 2 I'll tell you about it later.

Speaker 2 Just super cheap B. Very funny, though.
And when you see now, like I kept pulling pictures, I kind of want to pass my phone around, but

Speaker 2 do it.

Speaker 2 It's just, like, there's one picture where it's like her clearly turned to the screen like this, except for there's no, there's no definable features, it's just these, these, like, these really bad pipe cleaner antenna, and then these big, weird eyes, oh, and like kind of fangs.

Speaker 2 It's hilarious. They spent the whole budget on crafty, and then they were like, Let's just throw this thing together.

Speaker 2 They were like, Susan insisted on getting blue cheese, and now we can't afford a wasp outfit. She wanted plastic cups of wine, she had to get her wine cups.

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 the

Speaker 2 poster from that time is they used to do like the illustrated posters. And it's the thing I hate the most.

Speaker 2 It's a humongous, like giant wasp that's bigger, you know, that looks like it's the size of a bus. And it's attacking a man, but the wasp has a woman's face with a bunch of makeup on it.

Speaker 2 And that's, I hate that the most when

Speaker 2 like horror movies or whatever put a human,

Speaker 2 it's basically saying, I've turned into a wasp, but my face is still here. That's the worst.
Because that wouldn't happen. Well, it wouldn't, but also, what if it did?

Speaker 2 Then there's your weird face that you took your wasp arm to put lipstick on and shit. Like, this face has so much makeup on.
Because you can't go out without makeup. You can't, even if you're a wasp.

Speaker 2 So, all right.

Speaker 2 So, this is the movie she's best known for. I'm just saying, keep it in mind.
Okay.

Speaker 2 She also was, she was gorgeous and very petite, and she dated tons of people, which is her prerogative, Bobby Brown. Um, One of which was

Speaker 2 King Hussein of Jordan. He dated around, didn't he? What's that? I think he dated a few actresses.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I think, so he looked, he had a kind of Clark Gable-y quality, and I think he hung out in Elaine, and he dated her. She actually drove

Speaker 2 Princess Margaret's Bentley. Like, he, I think he set her up and kind of like made sure she had a great life after her B movie career was kind of fizzling.

Speaker 2 Um, but then he broke up with her when he found out she she was Jewish.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Are you fucking?

Speaker 2 No, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 What if I just started vomiting?

Speaker 2 Also, do your homework. Like, what? Oh, okay.
The romance over there. Wikipedia back then? You gave her like the most expensive car there is.
It should have been real, but no.

Speaker 2 Anyway,

Speaker 2 a lot of anti-Semitism in Hollywood and Jordan, apparently. Even though we fucking created Hollywood.

Speaker 2 No one's laughing. It's true.
It's true. It's not funny.
It's true.

Speaker 2 So when the paramedics went inside, they found what would be a classic hoarder's episode inside the Cabots' house. It had been Susan Cabot,

Speaker 2 and her son, and they had been living in this house where they said there were garbage bags in every room, newspapers and magazines stacked in toppling piles along corridors, rotting food everywhere,

Speaker 2 dead rats floating in the pool,

Speaker 3 and they had 10 dogs.

Speaker 2 I was gonna do dogs and I live like a goddamn bum. It's crazy.
I was gonna say that I would pay to go through that because what year was that? 87? Oh, I would pay.

Speaker 2 Like, I would want to see all her weird shit she say, but then the end kind of bummed me out. And so I'm good.
Yeah. Like, I want to go to the estate sale, but only after they cleaned it up.

Speaker 2 This estate sale, once they cleaned it up, there'd be nothing left. It'd be like wood beams, and they'd be like, Do you want, do you need wood? I'm good.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 when they get back to the bedroom, they find Susan Cabot lying dead on her bed, dressed only in a purple v-neck nightgown. Somebody remembered that it was purple.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 V-neck. Blood everywhere.
A large arc of it was sprayed on the bedroom mirror near her bed. There was what? A arc of blood.
Oh, okay. A blood spatter.

Speaker 2 There was blood spatter on the ceiling above her prone body and further bloodstains on the floor and on the bed.

Speaker 2 And the killer had covered Cabot's face and head with a piece of bed linen before bludgeoning her to death. Which we all know what that means.

Speaker 2 Huh?

Speaker 2 Can't

Speaker 1 it's personal.

Speaker 2 Oh, right. I just wanted someone to answer.
Oh, I thought we

Speaker 2 sorry. It means they're Jewish.
What? Stop it. Stop saying that word.
This is getting very anti-Semitic.

Speaker 2 Underneath that piece of linen, her face was all but unrecognizable. So overkill, he beat the shit out of her face.

Speaker 2 So now they come back out and they are like, Tim, what happened? And he's like, you will not believe this. I woke up at 9.30.
I hear my mom being attacked in her bedroom. So I go to the kitchen.

Speaker 2 As I'm reading it, I'm like,

Speaker 2 you do. You should have said you at least stuck your head in.
But he went to the kitchen where he found a ninja warrior. Are you? I was waiting for the other thing they always blame it on.
What?

Speaker 2 Black people. Oh, a black person.
Yeah. Well,

Speaker 2 he said there was a ninja who was a Latino. Oh, yeah.
Come on.

Speaker 2 Say it's a white person and they'll believe you every time. Well, so he said he fought with the ninja warrior,

Speaker 2 the curly-haired Mexican ninja warrior. in the San Fernando Valley.

Speaker 2 But the guy knocked him out. And And so then that's then when he woke up, he called.
So

Speaker 2 they were just there to kill the old woman hoarder. Like they didn't want to kill him.
No, no, no. They just wanted to knock him out and then

Speaker 2 terribly murder her face. You know how ninjas are.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 of course, the police were like, something smells fishy, aside from the 12 bags of garbage in every room of your home.

Speaker 2 So then as they talk to him more and more, I think they bring him in and then his statements become increasingly inconsistent, of course. And

Speaker 2 his wounds are overtly self-inflicted. And

Speaker 2 when he was asked about his relationship with his mother, he described it as very close. His mother and he talked about everything he told investigators, including intimate sexual matters.

Speaker 2 Red flag, right? Well, I mean, why?

Speaker 2 What kind of breakfast are you having that that's the conversation?

Speaker 2 How was your night? Well, I fucked so many many people, mommy.

Speaker 2 Pass the ketchup.

Speaker 2 Ketchup on eggs, murderer.

Speaker 2 No, I'm kidding. I love it.
They were just white trash.

Speaker 2 So when the questioning was over,

Speaker 2 he was formally charged with his mother's murder. He demanded that he be taken home to collect some medication and that he needed, that he needed.

Speaker 2 And there, without any prompting at all, Timothy led the detectives to the murder weapon.

Speaker 2 So in his room,

Speaker 2 they had those 10 dogs. Four of them were Akitas that were his dogs.
And when the paramedics got there, they were in his room going crazy, like wouldn't stop barking, going insane.

Speaker 2 So, they couldn't go into his room.

Speaker 2 Well, when they bring him back after he's questioned at the police, in the police department, when they bring him back, he brings them into his room, and that's where he put the murder weapon.

Speaker 2 So, that he put the dogs that like it's all a little bit convenient. We couldn't go in there because those dogs were going crazy.

Speaker 2 Actually, here's a bloody dumbbell that I killed my mother with and a scalpel.

Speaker 2 Oh, no. Yes.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I adopted those dogs after this whole thing.

Speaker 2 No, they had such a great life. There was a farmer that came into the San Fernando Valley.

Speaker 2 And they live forever.

Speaker 2 See? And here they are today.

Speaker 2 Come on, boy.

Speaker 2 Those are good old, really smelly dogs. Oh, my, they would smell.
And they're like, I saw murder. I'm all crazy now.

Speaker 2 I'm going to eat your ankle.

Speaker 2 Okay, so here's my favorite part. And this is something that the

Speaker 2 paramedics noticed when they got to the house is when they were walking up to the front door, they thought it was a 13-year-old boy that was standing at the front door.

Speaker 2 And then when they got up close, they realized

Speaker 2 he had an old face.

Speaker 2 Why 13? Which some of us have. And it turned out he was 22.
Okay. And the situation was that Timothy was born with pituitary dwarfism.

Speaker 2 And so he, the way he was born, he should have only stood four feet tall. But his mother got him on an experimental drug program.
That's always chill. Uh-huh.
And it worked well for her in the movies.

Speaker 2 So he had been taking experimental growth hormone for 15 years, and he grew to be 5'4.

Speaker 2 But the problem was that this experimental growth hormone was

Speaker 2 something that doctors had come up with. It was derived from

Speaker 2 the pituitary gland of cadavers. Oh, dear.

Speaker 2 So they were basically injecting him with the hormones from dead bodies. And later on, this was actually a, it was a, the National Institute of Health, it was like a

Speaker 2 program that they had set up for children that were born with dwarfism, only to then realize,

Speaker 2 because it was an eight-year program, that they had treated 700 children with this growth hormone

Speaker 2 who suffered from growth hormone deficiency. They gave them this,

Speaker 2 you know, medombian or whatever, this treatment. And it turns out that, as we all know, when you use old blood from dead bodies or old, you know, growth hormone or whatever,

Speaker 2 that's That's one of the major ways you can get Creutzfeldt-Jacob disease, which is also known as mad cow. Fuck.

Speaker 2 No way.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 key word here is experimental. Like, why would you let your, who in here has a child? Nobody.
Why would you let your kid?

Speaker 2 So many questions. Well, but this is the thing where it's like, she is a baby born with dwarfism as if that's unacceptable.
She starts putting him on this program that essentially,

Speaker 2 you know, and his defense lawyers were like, he was a human experiment. Dude, totally.
And when you have

Speaker 2 the mad cow thing,

Speaker 2 part of the disease is dementia. Your personality changes.
You have mood swings. You don't know where you are a lot of the time.
It sounds like it's like get hit on the head or be in an

Speaker 2 experimental fucking dead blood. This has to go into the triangle.
It can't be a lot of them. They're there, dude.
They're there. Keep your eyes peeled.
Churches.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 then it was revealed. I didn't mean to do a dramatic pause.

Speaker 1 I lost my place.

Speaker 2 And then laugh. And then I thought I would use it.

Speaker 2 Then it was revealed that Susan Cabot,

Speaker 2 when she put it together, that this pituitary gland hormone that her son was taking,

Speaker 2 She thought maybe that would make her look young. So she started injecting it in herself, too.

Speaker 2 So they were both taking this this drug that was making them insane who'd have thought that a hoarder would be crazy i mean and have bad ideas about what to inject into their body

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 uh

Speaker 2 page nine

Speaker 2 so uh basically

Speaker 2 he stood trial in may of 1989 and his

Speaker 2 legal defense put initially put in a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity.

Speaker 2 And they just basically said that the psychological

Speaker 2 symptoms he suffered from,

Speaker 2 extreme change in personality, dementia, loss of ability to think clearly, and memory loss, combined with his mother's behavior, because apparently she

Speaker 2 was just sitting in this house. It was, it was actually like, and the guy that writes this article, it's a really good article.
He equates it to like Sunset Boulevard.

Speaker 2 And all those, there's, you know, a lot of movies where it's like the old aging actress that can't let go of her beauty and her fame.

Speaker 1 Like, stopped in time, kind of thing.

Speaker 2 And like, basically locks herself in a house and goes insane and then tries to get people to come in the house with her. Well, that's actually what Susan Cabot really was doing with her son,

Speaker 2 but in like the super bummer hoarders way. Like, not in a charming, interesting caviar.
No, no caviar being served here.

Speaker 2 Old tuna fish cans, probably, in the way I've pictured it. Just the cans are being served.
Just

Speaker 2 not even served. Do you want to chew on an old can?

Speaker 2 Workouts. Help yourself.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 essentially,

Speaker 2 Timothy's tutor came and

Speaker 2 testified at the trial and said that

Speaker 2 Susan frequently screamed at her son for no reason.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 when Roman failed to take his medication, like he didn't shoot himself up, he literally couldn't add two numbers together. So they were, it was weird.

Speaker 2 It's like they were basically on this drug together that made them insane.

Speaker 2 And that apparently what he ended up, Timothy ended up saying was the night that he attacked his mother, he doesn't remember doing it.

Speaker 2 He doesn't remember going to pick up the barbell or any of the other things he used to bludgeon her to death, but that she would not stop screaming at him.

Speaker 2 And he, she had been screaming at him and not recognizing him for like a week. I buy it.
So yeah, she was completely like over the edge.

Speaker 2 And he basically, not actually being totally stable himself, snapped and just murdered her. I kind of believe it.
Yeah, you better believe it because it happened.

Speaker 2 And then I got

Speaker 2 and that's what the prosecutor said during

Speaker 3 the trial.

Speaker 2 So essentially, he was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter. So after hearing all the stories and all the people basically saying she was not,

Speaker 2 and he was two,

Speaker 2 he had already spent two and a half years in jail awaiting the trial. So and then he basically got three years probation.
No.

Speaker 2 The judge concluded her summation by saying that there was no doubt in her mind that he had loved his mother very much.

Speaker 2 I wish he had gotten put in a fucking insane asylum so he could be taken care of, right?

Speaker 2 I'll tell you that the episode of, what's it called? It's called like murders and it's that super cheesy E show

Speaker 2 with AJ, what's his name? And it's like called Nis

Speaker 2 and Murders. Anyone got that? Someone do my homework for me.

Speaker 2 It's on YouTube and you can see it. It's about her.
It's about this murder. But the guy himself, Timothy, is on it.
And he does that thing where he's like the anonymous person.

Speaker 2 So he's in black and the room's all dark.

Speaker 2 Which, thank God, it was probably like newspapers and fish bones.

Speaker 2 I don't know. But tuna fish cans.
Yeah. Just stacks and stacks.

Speaker 2 But he basically said in it, like, he's talking firsthand and just basically saying, yeah, I snapped and it was a really bad situation. I buy it, dude.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Usually I'm like, oh, yeah, you were crazy. We're all crazy.
Like, fuck, man. Yeah.
That's intense. That's like, yeah, that's some next level.
That's entertainment, everybody.

Speaker 2 That's show business for you. That's how show business works.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Okay, we are back from that story.

Speaker 1 I feel like my feelings about it changed so drastically from when you were first telling it till the end when I just had so much sympathy for this guy and what he was put through.

Speaker 1 And now that I understand hormones a little well too, like

Speaker 1 you're not yourself when you've got hormones pumping through you that are not. Oh, I think there's so many elements in that household that were going on.

Speaker 1 It was, it seemed like a terrible, it was like the mental version of hoarders, but like inside.

Speaker 1 It just like terrible interior, not getting outside help, not talking to people outside and just spinning out. Totally.
I mean,

Speaker 1 there's everything about this is a little nightmarish on top of the wasp. Yes.
Do you have any updates? No. I didn't say this during the show, but Timothy Roman died in 2003 of heart failure.

Speaker 1 And that is the only, I mean, it's kind of old, but yeah.

Speaker 1 And then this is the first time we, we've only done like what, two shows before live shows, but this is when we bring someone up to do a hometown. Right.

Speaker 1 I think for the first time, which is really exciting. And thank God it went well.
Yeah. Margie delivered.
Margie, great job. Let's listen to Margie's hometown.

Speaker 2 Hi, come over here.

Speaker 2 Come talk to Karen. Hi.
Hi. What's your name, Margie?

Speaker 2 Georgia, this is Margie. Hi, Margie.
Nice to meet you.

Speaker 2 Do you want to do it up there? Come on, come on, come on. Yay, Margie, Margie, Margie.
It's so cold. I'm getting cold, which means it's almost over.
Sit here. Does this work? I don't know.

Speaker 2 Come here, Margie. Yeah, it works.
It works. Margie's got her backpack on.
She's going to run after me.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, God. Hi.
Hi. Hi.
This is your hometown. Where are you from?

Speaker 3 I'm originally from Miami, but I live here now in my hometown.

Speaker 2 Florida. Welcome.

Speaker 3 I love that. So I live here now, and my hometown murder is here.
Sorry, Jake.

Speaker 2 No, hometown is in Clora.

Speaker 1 So I worked in this office with this dude.

Speaker 2 Oh.

Speaker 2 Is this a first-hand murder? Oh, yeah. Oh, shit.
Here we go. Whoever pointed, good job.
Yeah. Buckle the fuck up.

Speaker 3 So, this guy, like, I was an intern in this office, and he worked there.

Speaker 2 He was a writer there.

Speaker 3 And he kind of would like creep on me. He would like rub my shoulders.

Speaker 2 I'm like, can I get you a water bottle?

Speaker 2 Sexual harassment.

Speaker 3 Yes. But when you're an unpaid intern, there's not a lot you can do.
That's right. You just basically

Speaker 2 and stop and don't make money. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 So I got the hell out of there, but I stayed in touch with people who worked in the office. And basically, recently,

Speaker 2 this dude snapped.

Speaker 3 So he had this wonderful wife who had given birth to two of his children, and they were in the process of getting a divorce.

Speaker 3 While they were getting a divorce, he had a living girlfriend who was now pregnant with his next child.

Speaker 3 Honey. So during this divorce, while he's with this girlfriend, he

Speaker 1 gets charged with this sexual assault allegation of somebody else.

Speaker 2 Oh, God.

Speaker 3 So there's this girl who was raped, divorced wife, new girlfriend, baby's on the way everywhere.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 2 when the rape allegation comes out, the girlfriend's like, no, no, I'm not about this.

Speaker 3 So she leaves.

Speaker 3 And he, they have like this apartment in Weho. So he begs her to come back.
He's like, let's talk about this, whatever. So she leaves the baby at her mom's house, goes to the apartment.

Speaker 2 It's good though. Leave the baby behind.
Yeah. Baby's great.
Baby's fine. Okay.

Speaker 3 Spoiler alert. So

Speaker 3 she goes to his apartment and and is never heard from again.

Speaker 3 Ever, ever. Basically,

Speaker 3 I know. Basically, I'm pretty sure it was like the next day.

Speaker 3 Her mother was really worried. They hadn't heard from her.

Speaker 3 So they sent the police over there. He had barricaded all of his furniture against the door.

Speaker 3 He was locked in his bedroom with her body that he had drained of all its blood

Speaker 3 and that had been dismembered.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 We hoe. Weeho.
Of all places.

Speaker 2 This year.

Speaker 1 This year? No. Weehoe.

Speaker 3 Yes. So more information keeps coming out.
The dismemberment thing is like new information that we didn't know before. But the twist is that he is a graphic novel writer who had written.

Speaker 2 Listen. He had written.

Speaker 2 Listen. This is a podcast.
Fucking school. Hold on.

Speaker 2 He had written this terrible, gruesome story about

Speaker 3 a, I think it's like a scientist who does the same thing to his like lab assistant

Speaker 3 before this. Oh, yeah.
Like you're like a few years ago, he had written a had gotten published.

Speaker 3 It did really well, but it was like this really gruesome, dark, graphic novel where he had like hung her upside down, drained all the blood in his bathtub, had dismembered her, whatever.

Speaker 2 And then he fucking did it.

Speaker 3 Like, there's no way you're getting out of this one, dude. So no, that's my hometown murder.

Speaker 2 I love it. Anyway, you knew him? Oh, yeah.
And he massaged you. Yes.

Speaker 2 Welcome to LA. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's what. Yeah.
here for Margie. Amazing.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 Amazing. Do I want to plug anything? Do you want to plug anything? Do I want to plug anything? Yeah, like your Twitter or your Instagram.

Speaker 3 Okay, well, my Twitter is MargeOver Matter.

Speaker 3 Love it. Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 My best friend, John, and I, and my girlfriend, Kirsten, we have a clothing line called Do or Die. Kirsten is the one who handles your clothes.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. Hi.
This is Kirsten. Yay!

Speaker 1 I'm going to hug the shit out of you, Kirsten.

Speaker 2 From the printful.

Speaker 3 You guys, oh my gosh. Awesome.
That's her. She really wants to meet you.

Speaker 2 Oh, we're hugging. Yeah.
Okay. So,

Speaker 2 you guys have to eat that microphone. Yeah, we'll see you after.

Speaker 2 It's your parting gift. He's like, no way.
Oh, all right.

Speaker 2 Awesome. You guys, that's it for us, I think.
Yes, thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here.
That was so fun.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, yeah, that was a great hometown.
And fun times.

Speaker 1 I'm, of course, always being negative, but we had a fun time and we were truly so honored to be there at and be a part of something like that definitely she would pick some alternative titles yeah so like what would we call this episode this very special episode if we didn't name it live from EW Pop Fest which I like to pronounce the Ew Pop Fest

Speaker 1 well there the first suggestion is I never joke about Jojo which is what what I was saying when you were like is it really Jojo

Speaker 1 Elvis is here awhile that that would be so sweet. What if I brought him? Yeah, you brought him and then you had him cue and walk by himself up the aisle like a flower girl.

Speaker 1 And then, of course, small nice RV

Speaker 1 just as a little perfect button for this episode. I like that button.
Good times. All right.
Well, thank you guys for listening to this episode of Rewind. We hope you enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 Thanks for being at the EW Pop Fest with us, both spiritually and in every other way. And stay sexy.
And don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 Ah,

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Goodbye.

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