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Goodbye. Hello.

Big news, everybody. Exactly Rights News podcast.
Brief Recess is finally here.

Brief Recess is a smart, funny, and deeply insightful look at the American legal system, the real stories, the loopholes, and all the ways the law shapes everyday life.

It's hosted by attorney and viral TikTok star Michael Foote and his best friend, Melissa Malbranch. They bring humor and clarity to the pressing legal questions that we all have.

Today, we're so proud to bring you episode one titled ICE Abuses and Accountability, Finally, featuring a conversation with California Congressman Robert Garcia.

So, settle in and get ready to hear the very first episode of Brief Recess right here on Exactly Right.

And when you're done, head over to the Brief Recess feed to follow the show and listen to more episodes.

Listen to Brief Recess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And make sure to rate and review because it really helps.

And don't forget, you can watch new episodes every Thursday at youtube.com/slash at briefrecess. And now please enjoy Exactly Right's newest podcast, Brief Recess.
Goodbye.

Welcome to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foote.
I'm Melissa Malbrant.

Today we're going to be talking about the last time I was ever seen in public in a romper, Melissa's last time at an estate sale, the Diddy trial, the time Melissa had to talk to her mother about water sports.

Monica Lewinsky, deep dives into cases about special immigration juvenile status, an interview with Congressman Robert Garcia, and all the questions you send me in my DMs.

I'm Michael Foote. I'm a criminal defense lawyer and an immigration attorney here in New York City.

I am the first thing you see in the morning and the last thing you see before your husband disappears. Melissa, would you like to introduce yourself? I can't believe you just said that.

My name is Melissa Malbranch. I am absolutely, positively not a lawyer.
I stand by that.

I had been working in the nonprofit space for about 25 years now, and Michael and I met, I'd say about 10 years ago. We've been really good friends ever since.

You called me when your cat died. And that's how I knew we were close friends.
Your cat was dying and you called me instead of your husband.

I did, because I knew that you would understand what I was going through, but you wouldn't be as emotional about it as my husband.

People often come to me when they want a direct, emotionless answer, unless it's like a a Saturday night and I've been drinking. In Brooklyn and eating Taco Bell.

We're going to be talking about all sorts of legal things that come up in the headlines.

I've really wanted to start this show with my best friend Melissa because there are so many long form things I can't talk about on social media.

And people love coming to like my feeds to learn a little something about what's happening with immigration law, what's going on in court.

But I can't like really expand or they can't, it's hard for me to answer all their questions. So you'll hear a lot on this show.

We constantly are going to be returning to this notion of like, what can we be doing, right? Like I hate the concept of doom scrolling. I hate the notion that people aren't like supporting each other.

I hate this idea that like, oh, we're descending into fascism and like. That's it.
It was like a think piece.

I hate that idea.

I want people to feel empowered to sort of like flex their democratic muscles to affect some sort of change in their community, even if it's going to a small protest, even if it's like working and volunteering at like your food bank and sort of like looking at the headlines, seeing what's happening, and then explaining what's going on, and then exactly what you can do about it, rather than it just being like, Well, that sucks on to the next article, right?

Exactly.

So, I could never do like a full romper situation. I feel like I've seen you in a romper, and I don't think that's true at all.
Where did you see me in a romper?

You were out here on these streets in a romper.

This morning, Andre asked me if I was starting work at a garage.

Okay, murder on the dance floor. Jesus Christ, Andre, that is.
No, no, no. So Andre is, I mean, you know, Andre, a very conservative little man, like, dresses like everybody's dad.
Yes.

Like, so, like, anything out of the ordinary. I feel like I've given him some things that don't fit me.
Like, they're too small, so I give them to him. You have not?

I feel like I've given him a sweater over the years. I feel like that might be your other black friend that you've given things.
Okay, immediately, instantly racist?

I mean, no, not racist, but i mean i feel like

i feel like i there black people who know what i'm talking about sometimes you are your white friend's only black friend they have like two yeah no i i understand i'm the only gay friend for a lot of people and i'm treated like a mascot sometimes they're like get the gay one at the wedding get that no get you get the party started you get ones

no we need someone who's looking cute at the wear something nice something

like a good dress what's his name again Mark? It's never like you're not Mike.

Like you're not Mike. I am Mike to a very specific group of people.
One demographic calls me Mike. I'm going to give you one chance to guess.
Yeah. Is it somebody from like your childhood?

It's the guy fixing my dishwasher. It's like the guy fixing the like the plumbing in my apartment.
It's always like a man over a certain age who works. They don't know you.
Yeah.

And they say the name is Mike over there. No.
No, it's like my dad's friends.

It's people who know me. It's men of a certain white, straight men of a certain age are like, Mike, how's it going? It's a very long island thing.
Okay.

People randomly call me Michelle for no good reason. I've called you way worse than Michelle.
Yeah, there are worse things. Behind your back and to your face.
What did you do this weekend?

Well, you were working at the garage. I was, yeah.
I changed the carburetor. Brad will look me right in the eye and be like, oh, Professor Plum is joining us.

If I'm wearing like a sweater and a time, Jesus Christ, it's actually so diabolical. I don't catch strays in my house.
I catch them straight to the face. What I do this weekend.

So this is wardrobe changing time for me. So I do this biannually.
Oh, Melissa loves a good, I do. A good closet clean out special.

But I like, I recorded something and I was going to post it to TikTok, but I'm not like you. I am not a prolific poster.

If you're thinking about posting something to TikTok, my number one rule, don't be precious with it. Post it

unedited, broken. I am not precious at all.
Yeah. No, no, no, no.
That's not it. It's just a mess.
But I was just like, I am actually embarrassed at the amount of shit that I own. It is.

But those are the videos that everyone loves.

Those are the videos of mine that blow up when I'm like, it's, hey, I had to pick up a client and I'm wearing coochie cutters and a crop top that's mesh because it's Pride Month.

And I ended up having to go to the precinct. And it's always so mortifying for me.
But those are the videos that usually blow up. I mean, I don't, I actually don't care if the video blows up or not.

I mean, maybe I should, but I don't care. But I care that I feel like I have become victim to overconsuming, right? Yeah.
And to be fair, I do buy a lot of thrifted items.

I, you know, we know I love an estate sale. So it's not,

but I do buy things also. So let me just be clear about that.
Yeah. And no judgment here.
I'm a violent consumer. I am judging myself.
Okay. I am judging myself.

I am where disposable income goes to meet its disposal.

I don't want to be that person.

But there's a difference between not wanting to be someone and accepting who you are. Know thyself.

I know myself

and I am a bitch with too much shit.

And not enough space.

Do you have storage? So that's the thing, right? Is that every year I pack up twice a year

and I take it to storage, a storage facility outside

okay okay so that is actually cry for help yeah it is a little bit of a i need someone to come in and tell me what to do like i'll do it no not you

sorry i need somebody who's not my i love that my friends don't want to fucking no no no no no they're like i'm like oh i'd love to come over to dinner they're like get fucked no

because you will because you will enable me no yes i'm i throw everything out i'm like brad this has been here for a week it is a it's our tax return I think we should either, you know, post it online or throw it out.

Like, I'm like, this can't be sitting here. I feel like you would come over and we just wouldn't get anything done.
I feel like it would turn into a runway.

I do think that we would probably do some sort of fashion show. I don't want that.
Actually, comment below if you do want to see me go to Melissa's house. We do a full wardrobe.

I could, yeah, we could do different out there who wants to help me.

take a good long hard look at my wardrobe and be like bitch you're never gonna wear this and if you want to enable this dysfunction please comment on this video that you want us to do a little fashion montage this is actually a cry for help in your house no i think we do a link and people then can then donate to our uh and then we see how much money people give us to do i am not asking anybody for money why

i'm not this is and this is this is how you get ahead in life Maybe. Actually, speaking of, I saw Alyssa this weekend.
That messy bitch. We love her though.

How do we describe Alyssa? Describe Alyssa for the viewers at home. Alyssa is our very, very close mutual friend.

She's like a really good friend if you want to do something because Alyssa is down for whatever. Yes.
She's down for whatever. Hey, Alyssa, let's go to Croatia show.
Yes.

And I do, I get the sense that like her, um, her doorman like doesn't know what she looks like because she's never home. Like she's always out.
Like she's

never out in these streets. Yeah.

I have to tell you, I track Alyssa. And yeah, I do too.
I follow her. Yeah.
Because for her own safety. For her own.
I mean, I'm not even kidding.

For her own safety, I am oftentimes worried about where she is.

Has anybody seen her? Where is she? Melissa will text me in the middle of the night and she'll be like, I can't sleep. Just check in.
Have you heard from Alyssa recently?

I do feel like we should probably keep an eye on her. Alyssa is, Alyssa taught me how to be chaotic.
That is who she is in my life.

She's sort of like, uh, like the personification of like the Winchester mystery home. Like she's just sort of like, stove is on, keys are out.

I went to her apartment once, and there was like all this broken glass in front of the building. And I was like, ooh, rough neighborhood.
It was like the West Village. Right.
I go into the apartment.

And she had dropped something. I was like, there's so much broken glass.
And she was like, oh, yeah, I dropped like a whole bag of groceries out there earlier. That was me.
Like a 200-person unit.

And it was her.

Yeah. But I did see her.
I took her to a drag queen's birthday party. We went to Miss Mamshee.
Again, let me, just one second.

I was not invited. No.
And

for your own protection and safety you would have not gone out at midnight on a friday night oh for sure no but yeah but but but ask me

ask me no i don't want to be told no one more time get my hopes up get all excited well you won't get your hopes up because you know better right because you know i'm probably not coming but i would like to be included okay okay okay i'll just

It was also like deep in Brooklyn and you don't live anywhere near that. No, I don't.

You would have been like, this is, this is a four-hour flight for me to get there from where it when i first started dating my now husband um i was living in brooklyn and he was not yeah and it felt like a long-distance relationship it really really did and i mean and it really wasn't that far no theory but it felt what did we say it'd be like that it'd be like that and it felt like

that behind god's back brad lived in hoboken oh god And when you have to transfer, when you have to cross state lines in or interstate commerce like that, it really does.

I was all the the way in the East Village. There was like no clear transit.
It was, it was, it was actually really a pain in the ass.

Anyway, part of how Diddy got in trouble just crossed the state line.

We're three minutes into the episode, and Diddy's already come over. We're already talking about Diddy trafficking.

Okay, we're going to go right into sidebars. Okay.
And I think we've got a nice natural entree into the Diddy case because Melissa's mother, Magali, throw up a photo of Magali, CJ. She is an icon.

She is the moment. She is she.
She is her. She is

all of. Yes, my mother is.

We often say that my mom is the queen of the kingdom in her mind. Yes, a legend.

She is every woman.

Yeah, it's all in her. Yeah, it's all.

And she will never listen to this show.

She might. If I tell her that we give her a shout out, oh, okay, yeah.
What is the department of redundancy department she calls it?

I'm not going to do the accent because I'll get canceled.

So, my mom has always loved like a salacious legal case. Sure.
Right? I mean, who doesn't? A lot of moms do. Right.
So, like, I remember back in the day, you were a child. However, the O.J.

Simpson case, my mother was living for this case. Oh, living for this case.
Every mom in America. Cut to Diddy.
And my mom is just like. Cut through 30 years of history.
We're straight to Diddy.

Straight to Diddy. She's also really into like the, what's his name? Johnny Depp one.
Like she was into

and now she's got nothing but time. So

I mean we all strive to be retired. We do.
Yeah. I would love that.
So she was like, have you been watching the Diddy case? And I was like, to be honest, not really.

Like I'm in and I'm out or whatever. And she's like, well, he's definitely going to go to jail.
This is before. This was the when it was first really hitting the headlines.

And I was just like, yeah, it's not looking very good for him. And her whole

it wasn't. I mean, it didn't end well for him.

I mean, it ended better those.

If someone drew a sketch of me, the way those court reporters drew sketches of Diddy. Just I would be on the evening news.
Michael Foote threw himself off a building in embarrassment.

That is, that was so wicked, wild, diabolical. That was a crime in and of itself, drawing.
I mean, you reap what you sow, Sean.

What?

And also, let me, let me. I just haven't heard someone say you reap what you sow in quite some time.
I say that all the time. It's very Mel Gibson and signs.

Like, he's very much, it is very much like this bucolic imagery it evokes.

We're in

the fields growing corn. You reap what you sow.
I do. You reap what you sow.
That is such a, that's an American farmer subsidy shout out right there.

Shout out to you, all the American farmers working hard here in these, in this country, in the Midwest. So her whole thing was he's definitely going to jail.

And I was like, okay, it's not looking good for him. Why do you right? Agreed.
And Melissa called me and told me this. And I walked straight into the street with my dog.
Didn't look either direction.

I had the most uncomfortable conversation with my mother about water sports.

My mother was convinced that this man was going to go to jail because he had engaged in

water sports. This was in her mind.
Make it clear. This was the crime that she committed in her mind.
This was the crime. And I was trying to explain to my mom, I'm like, well,

it's not. Some people like that.
No melissa. Te papo sit.
She's she's rewriting the legislation. She was like,

include water sports as a federal crime. She's like, people don't like that.
And I was just like,

I mean, they might. And she was just like, no, he's going straight to jail for you.

I should also.

no due process, no jury process. This is why he should go to jail.
He deserves it. I mean, and again, back in the day, Monica Lewinsky, I was in the car with my mom.
I will never forget this.

Listen to some NPR show or something where they were talking about Monica Lewinsky's sexual past. And Monica Lewinsky and I are around the same age, give or take a year or two.

And I think it came out that before

Bill, Monica had had like maybe two or three sexual partners beforehand. And my mom was like ah

disgusting oh no

and and so i'm in the car with my mom and i'm driving and i am not making any yeah meanwhile you can't move no no no no no no no oh no oh no no no no no no no and i went home and i called a friend of mine and i locked the door i waited till she was my mom was upset that Monica Lewinsky has had like one or two guys.

And she was like, did you keep your mouth shut? I was like,

Firmly. So, this is who I am.

But for Diddy, we have to. Well, first of all, I might, I think I'm gonna meet Monica Lewinsky next week.

Can I call you? I know. I'm I'll text you the details.

I really want to. It is like, it is like my friend, anyway, is getting me in to meet with her.
So, I don't know if I can like sneak someone in, but I won't bring you to the drag queen's birthday.

I will bring you to meet Monica Linque. Yeah, like pick and choose, my friend.
Yeah, yeah. I feel like that's equally, you know, excuse me.

I think if I have to choose, I'd rather meet Monica Lewinsky.

Well, okay, but let me explain the drag queen miss mamshe she does uh deadpan drag to like very hilarious songs like ding ding ding went the trolley but her face is like

the whole time and let me we'll throw up we'll throw up a clip we'll throw up ding ding ding and oh clang clang clang right right right we can't sing on the show because we'll get sued but she always has like a tag we can speak lyrics that's copyright law um she always has like the tag on her outfit still it's like still on the it's so good it's so it's so great you have have a couple drinks.

It's great. Anyway, I'll bring you to meet Monica.

But Diddy, the thing about that, I was just so incredulous was Melissa's mother, each time she brought up one of the horrific things she was being charged with, people testifying. Sure.

The awful testimony. I mean, it was really exciting.
Oh, it was terrible. Yeah.
Melissa's mother was like, but the water sports. Water sports.
That was what was really good. She couldn't get old.

She refuses to believe

that anybody could be into

that. And I was trying to, and then finally I was like, you know what? I'm just like acutely aware of how much water I'm drinking right now as we're talking about.
Listen, let's

listen, that's fine. I'm actually out.
Let's take a brief recess. You're a grown-ass man.
We're going to take a break.

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Goodbye. Streaming December 11th on Paramount Plus, it's the new limited series, Little Disasters.

Based on the book by the author of Anatomy of a Scandal and starring Diane Krueger and Joe Joyner, Little Disasters is a gripping story of unraveling secrets and fractured relationships that will leave you on the edge of your seat.

Bella Magazine declares, if you loved big little lies, then this psychological drama is for you. Little Disasters, binge all episodes December 11th on Paramount Plus.
Goodbye.

Welcome back to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foote.
I'm Melissa Malbranch. This is Under Earth.
We're going to take a deep dive into a case.

This one is actually really near and dear to me and my heart and a lot of what my day-to-day life looks like. So I picked it, I thought it'd be cool to kind of talk to you about it.

The name of the case is Sarmiento et al. v.
Perry et al.

So it's a class action lawsuit that the ACLU filed against ICE, effectively submitting a class action lawsuit of a group of minors who were seeking immigration status here in the U.S.

and were not being given the opportunity to be bonded out of detention centers. So they were being held for long periods of time in detention centers.
Okay. And when you say minors, give me an idea.

Sure, yeah. So anyone under the age of, actually, I think it might be 21 is for special immigration juvenile status, it's people under the age of 21.
Okay.

We call it sig as a shorthand, but special immigration juvenile status is a protected status that minors can seek in the U.S. It's usually you have to.
you have to prove certain things.

So one of them is that you were neglected, abandoned, or abused by a parent in your home country.

So that can be you never had a relationship with your father and you don't know him and he's no part of your life. Okay.
Or it can be that your parents abandoned you.

Sometimes there are really extreme cases, which are, you know, a lot easier to kind of prove.

And then there are others where it's like, I don't know who my father is, and I'm going to be establishing custody in the U.S. with a relative.

So it's usually just one parent that you sort of have to prove that there was something abnormal about the relationship.

But the interesting thing that sort of came up in this case that I thought I could weigh in on was how important it is that people are bonded out hard stop, but especially in SIG cases.

And that's because

SIG is one of these things where you and your lawyer are running around the city to all sorts of different courts to get documentation, to get judgments, to get rulings from judges so that you can bring it back to immigration court and show them that like you're doing your due diligence.

For example, you usually have to go to family court, which is like in in a different borough sometimes, or it takes a really long time to get that hearing date.

I've worked SIG cases, it's taken years just to even get like

a date for your application to be reviewed. Let me ask you this.
What happens if somebody,

because like you said, it takes years sometimes. What happens if the person ages out while this is going on? That's a great question.
We're often dealing with like hard deadlines.

I made a video recently about appeals and how we sort of,

the deadline is when the application is received, not when you submit it for certain things. So deadlines are insane in any industry, but especially in immigration law, the stakes are so high.
Right.

So for SIG, it is when it's filed.

So even if there is a backlog in the government agency that you're working with, as long as it's the date that your attorney files it, you're still below the requisite age. Okay.

That is, that's like such an important question because sometimes people are not sure about that.

Sure. So as long as the date that it was submitted is before you've aged out, then you should be okay in terms of moving forward with the case.
Exactly.

And so in this case, the plaintiffs are suing ICE stating that they're being held without a bond hearing and that it violates their Fifth Amendment due process rights.

So they're not even given the opportunity to argue whether they should be bonded out. of a detention center.
It is developing law. By the time this episode airs, the law might have changed.
So

the thing about this specifically is that there was a recent ruling in September where if you were not inspected, so upon arrival in the U.S., so let's say you arrived undocumented, you crossed the border illegally,

you don't have standing. to seek bond in court if you are detained.
So that is like a new thing. It's still being hammered out.
It's being appealed.

Like it's going to work its way up through the courts. But right now, a lot of people are to get bonded out who crossed the border illegally.

And this new ruling, this new case law that came down in September has sort of messed with that. So I have people reaching out to me for bond.

And I'm like, I honestly couldn't even file something for you if I wanted to or if I had time to. So, I mean, I just wonder what, especially, you know, what happens to these people?

I mean, especially. talking about kids, somebody who's the idea of somebody who's 10 years old is sort of in this purgatory.
What happens to them? It's a great question.

And it's something that I think needs more attention, especially in the media. I think oftentimes immigration law is like, ooh, that's so complicated.
Even lawyers will call me. Like,

this woman called me and she was like. The lady who does my nails just got arrested.
I'm a lawyer, but I don't know how to do this stuff. Like,

immigration law is like one of the most complicated areas of law. Right, right.
And it's because of the decentralized nature of the government agencies that we're working with.

I mean, when I'm having someone fingerprinted, it gets sent to North Dakota. When I file their BIA appeals, it goes to Church Falls, Virginia.
Like it makes absolutely no sense.

I think what sort of happens is,

especially in these cases, like we're talking about child welfare here, like these are children being locked up and they're being detained for an indeterminate amount of time.

I think like public perception, public advocacy, people's

People giving this any sort of energy or attention, I think they'll sort of start to see like how many awful things happen in detention centers, right?

Like how many lawsuits are there around sexual violence in detention centers. So this is happening on U.S.
soil.

It is, I'm so glad to see that there is a lawsuit because I have to say, as an attorney, I'm really remiss reading the headlines that there aren't a lot of people talking about this.

There aren't a lot of law firms taking up cases and filing lawsuits like this. There's been a chilling effect with the Trump administration where law firms are like, we are not going to be suing.

We are not going after. They are afraid.
Like they are afraid that they're going to be. And what does it come down to? It comes down to people's wallets.

It comes down to the pocketbooks of these big firms. And they're not going after the government agencies and really having some sort of like stand, right?

And it's awful because it's like, I don't know, it kind of gets to the heart of like being an attorney for me. It's like, why the fuck did you do this then?

Like, there are so many like faster ways to make money than being a lawyer. And you got into this to not help people, to not do the right thing.
Like,

we're supposed to be officers of the court we're people who are supposed to be like ensuring justice is served or seeking out justice or accountability is held somewhere right and to then be like well it's going to hit our bottom line we don't want to beef with the trump administration it's like

well then who the are you like if you're not going to be doing that then what are you doing i i wonder i'm excited i'm going to be following this closely i do think there's a strong chance that there will be some sort of at least partial relief for the plaintiffs, mostly because the child welfare protections court courts take that really seriously.

And there is sort of a

pretty big due process concern in this case.

People not, I'm going to be watching this closely to see, mostly because

once there's a decision made, my day-to-day job as an attorney who handles bond hearings will change overnight.

It will be one of those rulings where I get to the courthouse and what I'm doing that day is something different than what I thought it was going to be.

And I live for that shit because I am a messy bitch and I do love a little bit of chaos every now and then. I was born and raised by Alyssa, our most chaotic friend.

And you're a Taurus.

We're both Tauruses. No, I know.
Yeah, I love that. Let me ask you a question.
Yeah. They're in these detention centers with.
Are they like segregated from adults? Yeah.

That's actually a great question.

If anybody, like, I actually don't know

because it is so impossible for attorneys to access clients who are being held at detention. It's actually such a pain in the ass for me to even have a call with a client who's detained.

And I sue, I was part of a lawsuit with the ACLU a couple years ago where we sued because I was like bored one summer during COVID. So I like worked with them.
I'm serious.

And I basically like

two broken feet. I broke both my feet jogging.
Yes.

I was laid up in casts.

And what I would do is, I would take a group of cases in different detention centers around the country, and I would attempt to get in contact with my client and then document how difficult it was.

And it all, I was one of the lawyers, all that information got fed into this lawsuit. And they sued and won.
They were like, we like lawyers cannot access their clients. So it's really hard.
And

detention centers are intentionally.

outside of city limits. They're really far away from a metropolis

to ensure that people cannot access legal counsel.

They're usually in like a wasteland. I had to go to one in, I think it was like in Alabama, and I had to fly into a different state.
I didn't want to drive. So

I'm wealthy enough. I hired a car to drive me there because I was like, I hang out.
I'm not going to be driving in the middle of northern Georgia, Alabama.

I had someone drive me just to, just for one hearing. It was crazy.
Yeah.

I just keep thinking the idea of a kid being alone it's terrifying um and you know and somebody needs to be the voice for these kids right absolutely yeah i think the my minor my clients who are kids minors

are the ones that i end up being closest with as well because they like a social worker yeah more than yeah right totally because they need the help more than any i mean obviously anybody who's in and a lot of the times like the lawyer is like the parent has trusted the lawyer to like be there for that that person.

I don't know that there are enough people who are going to law school who get into it because they really have this

deep down desire to

push the idea of like social justice or just justice in general. No, it's true.
That is true.

I'm going to go to law school and I am going to be a real estate lawyer because I want to make a ton of money. You know what I mean?

I mean, I think it's wonderful that you're thinking about it that way. And

Michael is not alone. I know there are a lot of it.
I'm also not perfect. Like, I mean, no, no, no.

No, no one's. It's very easy to

like lose your way.

Like, I have lost my way many times in life, like as a lawyer, like even after graduation, where, you know, you do sort of get dazzled by the dollars or you don't want to take that pro bono case because you are too busy.

Or like. Life happens.
Like people have families. Like people get dogs.
Like,

shit goes down, right? And so I just feel like, I don't know, I want other lawyers to feel like it's cool for me to be like, hey, Michael, how do I get involved? How'd you get started?

You know, I get a lot of messages like that where people are like, hey, like, how'd you get your first pro bono case? How'd you learn how to do this stuff? Like,

I wasn't always this psychopath that I am today. No, I think you probably were always a psychopath, maybe not the one that you are today.
However, I think Bellevue knocks on the door.

I think that to your point, I think sometimes there comes a point in everybody's life where you're like, you know what?

I've done the thing that I'm going to do, right? Like I went to college or not or whatever. And now I have a job.
And I'm just sort of like plugging away. I think about this a lot, right?

What is going to be my other thing that I do that is helpful? Yeah.

I think there comes a moment in your life.

Where you're like, oh, you know what? I'm going to sit down. I'm going to think about how I can help.
And for you as an attorney, you had this skill. Yeah.
You have this degree.

And you were like, you know what? I now have the time. Yeah.
And I'm now inclined. When we talk to Congressman Garcia later, let's ask him.

You should ask him like what you can do, like what the differences are.

Because I think that could be cool to hear from someone in a position of power in the government of like what they think their constituents or just like civically engaged Democrats can be doing to help.

What can we do to help? How can we be helpful? How do you help now? What do you, what do you do to, I mean, I know like you volunteer, you go to protests, like you get involved. You are

like someone that I look to, like you've helped me find my way many times. Um, but I don't know.
I think you're a wealth of advice and and wisdom.

I mean, I think I, so not speaking about sort of like helping people who need, but in terms of like wealth of advice and wisdom, I'm going to tell you what I think, no matter what, whether you want to hear it or not, right?

Like, and I am a big, I told you so person, which is not my best quality, but it is we are who we are, right?

Um, and you, what's really funny is that, like, I don't tell people I told them so nearly as often as I want to. I like keep it, I tamp it down.
Yeah, she does. It is

I can't help it. You had fucking skywriting I told you so for me one day.
Who the fuck do you think you are in on my show? Sorry. I think I might get a tattoo.

Wait, oh, I would do that. I told you so.
I've got to, yeah. Yeah.
Mine could just be, she told me so.

I told him so.

In terms of helping, I will say that, yes, I go to protests. And yes, I will, I'm big on like reaching out to my congressperson.
I, you know, I've sent letters to my governor, my mayor.

But I will tell you that I struggle often with not knowing exactly what to do because I feel like what I want to do is something that I think will push the needle, right? Like, what can I do?

Who can I help? Even if it's like one person, right? Who can I help? It's this feeling of helplessness that I think everyone is feeling right now. 100%.

Even like someone who I'm very much in a position to do something, right? But you do it. Yeah.
I was out running. I was

traveling and I was out jogging in my hometown.

And on the corner of like the little main street, and it's like this like little, tiny little town on Long Island. There were all these retirees who had like no kings posters.
I love it.

And they were protesting. And I was talking to them.
It's the North Fork Women for Women fund, NFW-Whiffs.

That is their name. Okay.

I am not. I'm not having a stork niff whiff-whiffs.
Okay. And they were telling me that

they take shifts. every day.
They're on that corner working shifts protesting. I was like, this is amazing.
I love this so much. And they were, how do I like nicely describe? They were retired women

of a certain age. Sure.

How retirers are. Yeah.
Well, there were no like young startup retirees who retired at 30. Right.

But I feel like a lot of people, their age probably were feeling like they can't do anything or they cannot get involved.

And it was just like such a cool example where I was like, oh, look at these baddies. Look at these icons.
Yeah. Anyway, this has been Under Oath.
Let's take a break.

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So, Melissa, I'm really excited because Congressman Garcia is joining us today. That's going to be great.
I can't wait. He's the former mayor of Long Beach.
California, yeah. And he's the U.S.

Representative from California's 42nd district. He's been there since 2023.
He's actually an immigrant himself from Peru.

So, it'll be really interesting to talk to him about ICE, what's happening there, what he's doing as a congressperson to sort of advocate for immigrant communities.

Also, the first openly gay immigrant in Congress, which is very cool.

I think he was undocumented at one point when he first emigrated. So it's a very cool, interesting sort of entree into American politics.

What he's sort of working on, I think will inform how Americans really engage with the news cycle, right?

I mean, we're always talking about how can we ensure that people are civically engaged and have real next step action items.

I feel like a lot of what's happening in American democracy right now is like,

well, it's just terrible. And nothing to do, just throw your hands up and give up.
Yeah, yeah. And I think it'll be cool to kind of talk to him and be able to really say like, hey.
Right.

And I love the fact that, you know, I think it also helps when people can see themselves and they're elected officials.

So the fact that he is an immigrant, the fact that he's out, you know, openly gay, like all those things, I think, sort of help.

put the information out. I also love a fierce Steva who's like, I'm going to let my identity govern like how I enter the workplace, how I enter and like use my work.

I'm sick of this whole like my life is separate from my job. It ain't.

I'm a fear Steva in the courtroom as well as at home.

I'm winning arguments in my kitchen. Are you though? Somebody called

Brad on the phone. I'm getting impeached in my phone.
Yeah, get Brad on the phone. Oh, all right.
Congressman. All right.
Shut up. Congressman's calling.
I got to stop talking.

Welcome to brief recess, Congressman. Hey, guys.
How are you? Hi, Congressman. Hi, Congressman.
Thank you for joining us.

I know that that we actually just got the press release of what you've been working on of the new legislation. So why don't you take us in of what you've sort of been focused on today, it sounds like.

I mean, obviously there's a lot going on and the horrors of the Trump administration never end.

Today we're really focused on and trying to really zero in on just the horrific actions by the administration, certainly Secretary Noam, Stephen Miller, and what's happening with ICE across the country.

There are two things that we're looking at right now. One is we've all been reading reading the reports of the now upwards of 170 U.S.
citizens that have now been detained, in many cases sent to

these facilities by ICE and by other federal agents, and who essentially have stories of being in the centers for days and days without any access to lawyers or family because they didn't have their ID.

And these are U.S. citizens who are being targeted racially profiled because of the color of their skin.
And we know that now if ISIS is doing this to U.S.

citizens, you can imagine how others are being treated at these centers and facilities.

And so we have a broad investigation going right now through oversight into Christinoam, into their actions across the country.

But we're also especially partnering with the Senate and the Senate's oversight team and Senator Blumenthal and us are specifically going to do a joint bicameral investigation into what's happening to United States citizens across this country as well.

You know, what I've told folks is, look, what's happening to citizens is horrific, but also reminding people that what's happening to non-citizens, they also have due process rights.

I mean, the Constitution is so clear. Correctly.
And so we have a lot of work to do, but we were in LA with Mayor Bass making that announcement today. And it's interesting you bring this up.

I really wanted to talk to you about what specifically does that mean, right? I think we oftentimes hear in the news, like, we're investigating this, we're looking into this, bicameralism.

Could you get specific about, like, what does that literal to-do list look like when you get to the office, right? Like, walk us through it because I think it's important for people to hear.

These words have almost become pointless to a lot of Americans. Oh, we're investigating.
Oh, there's an oversight committee. Oh, we're going to be looking into it.

I think we've been used and abused in so many ways as Americans that these words have sort of like lost value.

So, I want people to hear, like, exactly what you're doing because I know you, I know your team, I know you've been working on this um and i understand it on like a granular granular level from the courtroom but i think it's important for people to hear really what that means for you absolutely no this is great because i i also i love explaining kind of how oversight yeah so i think process matters right like what's the process i think it's so important let me so there's two pieces of this i think are important and that is how and who is leading the investigations and then what we're actually trying to accomplish and do.

So let me, let me start by saying, look,

I've been the lead Democrat on the oversight committee. The oversight committee in the U.S.
House is the lead investigations committee that exists under our Constitution

in the U.S. Congress.
And so, obviously, the job of Congress is oversight. And oversight is where most of the major investigations end up.
Now,

I'm a pretty

newer member to the Congress. I was mayor of Long Beach, California for eight years.
I got to Congress a little over two years ago. And so I was not the most senior person to take on this job.

And I think in my pitch to the Democratic caucus, I said, look, we have to, we have to do things differently. We've got to bring change.
We need people to be more aggressive.

We need to bring that fight that Republicans bring to these investigations. And, you know, the pitched work, I'm the first sophomore to lead a committee in 100 years in the U.S.

And I mention that because I think what you said is really true, that oftentimes we will launch an investigation or folks will say they're going to hold folks accountable.

And then it just gets lost in kind of Washington speak. Right.
Or we hear about it like two years later that they kind of found something, but they weren't really.

And it just, it does get kind of lost in the wash there. It does.
And that is not me first. Like I, first, I'm an immigrant myself.
And so this is very personal to me.

And it's something that I know I've lived through the experience. I've been undocumented.
I understand what the lived experience is.

And then the second piece is, I think people just should take, you know, I've been the lead lead on investigations now for about maybe three or almost four months, three, four months in the Congress for Democrats.

And I show people what we've just done on the Epstein files, for example. Like we are,

we are getting so much

information out on the Epstein files because we're being aggressive and we're not waiting to be in the majority.

And so the way oversight works is when you are in the minority, so Democrats are in the minority in Congress, we only have limited powers. We don't have subpoena power.

We don't have powers to get any document we want or anyone from the committee, but we still can't investigate on our own. And so that's what we're doing now.

We're not waiting to be in the majority to investigate.

However, when we do win the majority in 2026, you can believe that we will be sending out subpoenas and getting information from Christian Long, from Stephen Miller, from folks that are coming from harm, from Holman, just a variety of folks that we are interested in, but the work has to start now.

So that's a little bit about kind of why we have to bring new people into the party and at the table and leading these committees is because a new approach is also needed.

And then the second piece is it is still in the minority. These investigations have enormous, the enormous ability to also help in many of the court cases that are happening.

And so we partner with folks. That's just what I was going to say, papering the record, documentation

so that core cases can move forward with that documentation is so important to put out into the public record what's actually happening and what we know and so many of the successful cases that are happening right now in the courts actually reference or use many of the investigations or the documents that we are requesting of agencies to build the case and so it's all very important work.

I wanted to ask you, because on this show, we really like to focus on ways that everyday Americans or other attorneys can get involved to do something.

I think so much of the internet, so much of the news cycle is doom scrolling. It is getting lost in the weeds.

It is, you know, articles about literally how America is headed towards fascism with no actual action items on what people can do, how they can get involved, things that they can do to flex their democratic muscles.

What would you, where do you need me, an immigration attorney, right? Like, what would your advice be to to me, an immigration attorney, or to me, Melissa, who is a civically engaged Democrat?

Not an attorney, but I care very much about what's happening in my community. I also come from an immigrant family.
What can I do? Where do you need us?

And I think it's so important that people really hear from leadership, right? Like, what can we be doing, boots on the ground, to support these efforts? So,

so two things. So, one is obviously there's some, I'm going to talk specifically about what specifically you can do to help what we're doing on the the investigation side.
So that's one piece of it.

Broadly speaking, there, and I was just right now with maybe 50 kind of immigration community activists and leaders from different groups that are on the ground doing this work right now in Los Angeles.

And what they're, they are modeling just the behavior. We're talking about

attorneys that are working with immigration groups. We're talking about immigration advocates that are trying to visit these detention centers.

We're talking about folks that are doing rapid response on the ground. We're talking to folks that were just donors that are donating to kind of these rapid response networks.

I talk to faith leaders who are bringing in parishioners who are out communicating and working with families that are oftentimes even too scared to leave their home.

And so I have found that in every community, there is a group or people that are actually doing this work, whether it's a local church, whether it's a local immigration organization, whether it's a group of

lawyers that are doing some pro bono work or working within the legal defense space. There's a lot of ways to get involved broadly.

Specifically, our oversight committee is doing two things where people can get directly engaged.

One is in the next few weeks, you're going to hear, we'll put this out, we're going to be launching a massive kind of one-stop ICE and information tracker.

for the that's great okay that's so great that is going we need it absolutely i need it and that it doesn't exist right now And so we want to make sure that we are tracking every instance of abuse and terror that is being right now

put out and being done every day by ICE and by Christian Noam and folks. And so we're working and building that right now.
And we have some groups that are assisting us with that as well.

So folks will be able to submit

video information to this tracker so that we can keep all of the information also and from a national perspective in what we're doing. That's so important.

So most, as someone who gets so many uh people reaching out to me for help, that is 90% of the things are just info sharing.

You don't actually need an immigration attorney half the time, uh, but just people are just trying to figure out what's going on, and I think that's really important. Exactly.

So, we're that's going to be a way for people to be able to communicate with us directly and send us information so that we have it on and able to share it into the public record.

The second piece, and I know this sounds so,

but you said it earlier. Just for the purposes of winning in the courtroom, we have to not just win in, you know, and obviously in public opinion, we have to win in the courtroom.

And first of all, in the courtroom, and we have to document and we need to build the case. And it takes work and it takes putting all this.
It does. It really does for people who don't.

And so, and for us in Congress,

it's critical for us to have all this information.

The second piece, which we announced today, is we're going to be launching some field hearings that will be happening in communities across the country.

Our very first one is going to be in Los Angeles. We'll be announcing the date hopefully here in the next

week or two. Yeah, that'd be great.
Share it with us. We can put it out on the channel.
That's great.

And what the field hearing is going to be an opportunity for members of Congress and the community to come together and listen to testimony from people in the community.

And we're going to also provide ways where folks can do it in a way that

thinks that we're keeping their safety in mind as well.

Yeah. But it's going to be an opportunity for there to be actual stories and actions that are happening and information that needs to be shared with us.
We're going to go into the community as well.

And so the very first one will be in Los Angeles. It'll be, I think, it's quite exciting.
And so that's something also folks. That's incredible.
Yeah.

Definitely going into the communities is so important. I mean, so much of what happens in immigrant communities, from my experience, just as a guest, right, is

word of mouth. Yeah.
Oh, for sure. That is the biggest way.
I mean, as

family coming from Haiti, that's how we learned about everything. You heard it from someone's aunt, someone's cousin, a friend, church, et cetera.
So that's how you really get the word out.

And I think when it comes from your own community, you tend to trust that information, right? So thank you so much for joining us. I know you're the mayor of Long Beach.

We've got a Long Beach here in Long Island. It's a little bit different, but I wanted to say thank you.
And the first openly gay immigrant congressman.

Is that right? That's right. That's all correct.
Okay. All right.
So who's your favorite drag queen in Long Beach, California? We're going to actually, we're going to Venmo her

in your honor. Thank you.

I'm going to Venmo her $100. What's her name? Oh, Jules Long Beach.
Actually, Jules Long Beach is my favorite drag queen in Long Beach. Jules Long Beach.

I can't wait for Jules Long Beach to wake up at 4 p.m. and be like, who the hell is this guy

sending me

Congressman Garcia? Send me under Congressman Garcia's name. So Jules Long Beach, go find her on Venmo or Cash Shop and send her some money.
Tip your drag queens.

Thank you, Congressman, for joining us. Thank you so much for joining us.
We appreciate your time. We'll do.
Thanks, Carol. Thank you.
Take good care. Bye-bye.

So Tales from the DM. Friends, please remember while Michael is a lawyer, he is not your lawyer.
Unless you want to hire me. I mean, that's a different thing.
I am.

Everyone has a price, and I'm actually pretty cheap. Just ask any of my ex-boyfriends.
Ask me.

This is Maggie from OHI, and I was wondering if you could explain to me what's happening with banning of birth control pills in this country from a legal perspective.

I keep reading about it, but I would love to know in a simple way what is actually happening and how likely this is. Okay.

Great question. So

this is an interesting one because it's a, I always feel bad when I have to answer these because it really is, it depends half the time. Like it really does depend on the state you're in.
Yeah.

So right now birth control is not being banned in the U.S. I think there is it's always like the threat of restricting contraceptives for women is always sort of a topic that continues to come up.

And it is very much these Republicans leap on the any opportunity to sort of keep women down,

right?

I mean, and it always anything we talk about it is always poor people who experience the worst right um right people who are experiencing poverty who right who don't have access who don't have access are it it's a way to ensure that poor people remain poor and that the rich-poor gap grows so federal law and supreme court precedent um still protect the right to get contraceptives.

There is a very famous Supreme Court precedent, Griswold v. Connecticut.
It's from 1965, as well as Eisenstadt v. Baird.
It's 1972.

So these are the Supreme Court precedents that protect a woman's right to contraceptives. I don't know why I can't say that word.
Because you don't have to use it.

I guess because I've never gotten a woman pregnant and never even would be in a situation where that would happen. Never?

We can get into it.

We'll do that in the off. We'll do the B-sides.

The brief recess after dark. We'll get into that.

The end scene 17 after 11 p.m. I mean, do you remember when VH1 or MTV, it was like, it was like at night, it would become

softcore porn. Yeah, it was blue.
It was. It was a little, it was pale.
It would go blue. Yeah.
Anyway,

moving on.

Are you okay?

We got it. We really got.
I love when I gag our producer. I love when we get the producer going because they have to listen to me yap all day.
So basically

basically, if contraceptives were under fire, it would get worked up through the court system and eventually go to the Supreme Court. And those precedents would be argued against.
Right.

I would hope that in a situation like this, there would be extreme public outrage. Like this really would be,

even right now with the ways in which Republicans are restricting access to

abortion, it's going to be different. And that's right.
A man went on the record and said the word abortion.

I know it doesn't happen that often, but you know, they have to be really creative with how they do it, right?

They say, oh, like the fire code, or, oh, it's going to be a certain number are still within the state, even though they're like eight hours apart.

Like they still have to be kind of creative thinkers when they're trying to do evil. So the same would sort of happen with contraceptives and also like the sort of expansive nature of America.

We think about this a lot with the Commerce Clause, right? Like interstate commerce, the transportation of contraceptives across state lines.

I know of people who after the election were like stocking up on Plan B here in New York and like mailing it to southern states.

So it will be something interesting to watch. I haven't really seen it come up that much, but it is a very curious question.
Thank you, Maggie. It really is.

I actually wonder what's going to happen, especially, you know, most of the sort of now the Republican Party and MAGA Republicans, they're very much on this, you know, we're doing this with God behind us.

Yes. And there is this theory for a lot of religions sort of across the board, right? Like make lots of babies.
Make lots of babies. The last thing, I am happily childless.

And maybe we'll add that to my next tattoo as well. But you are childless by choice.
We

have the choice. To talk about, yes, exactly.
You have the choice. Oh, yes.
I have all the choices. I'm a white man in a suit.

right i can get away with pretty much anything just about you have kids you've got a family do you want to tell people about your life and your choices um i do not have any biological children i do have a stepdaughter who is lovely and she and i get along really well and i love other people's kids that's who i am i am perpetually yeah

aka auntie misa that's who i am so i am the uncle well my husband brad is like the fun uncle with the kids but i'm the uncle where you know, if you are beefing at school or you need someone to help you buy beer.

Don't do that. Don't, you can't call me.
I would never do that. I would absolutely never teach you how to roll a joint.
I do not abide.

I only roll ankles, not joints. He's rolled a couple of ankles.
Both. Both.
At the same time.

No, you've never seen me wear pleasers.

Hi. This is Daisy from Los Angeles.
Hi, Daisy. First of all, voiceover actress.
Love, right? And Daisy is a really good name. Whether or not it's your real name or not, I don't know.
I imagine Daisy.

What do we think Daisy looks like?

Immediately in my head, Daisy, for me, is a Latina, right? I think, and I think she's got her Chola makeup down. I love

the Chola.

She's from the South Bronx. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think, well, she said she's from LA. Oh.
So I think she's from South LA. Okay.
Right. Yeah.
I don't know the neighborhoods in LA that well.

Okay, but that's who I think. I think Daisy is fierce and I think she has got a hoop earring.

No, I think that's right. I think we could open like a whole like booth at a state fair of us just like based on people's voices guessing what they look like.

So maybe submit a question and we'll guess what you look like. Anyway, I feel like there's so much in the news about Trump trying to pardon P.
Diddy or Ghylaine Maxwell.

We can't, not the Diddy shout out. Not again.
No.

I also wonder why they keep on saying that Ghelaine Maxwell. I feel like everybody's mispronouncing her name.

I had an aunt whose, that was her name.

Yeah, and that's not how you say it. How do you say it? Ghislaine.

I don't know who Ghelane is. I'm speechless.
Haitians all over are like Ghelane. Ghelane.
Ghulain. Ghulane is such like a clunky,

flat-footed

flat-foot stomp in the street. It's

but go ahead. Sorry.
Go ahead.

And I'm wondering, is there any interesting cases that previous presidents have ever pardoned before or really controversial ones in the past? Or are these particularly insane?

I mean, to try and compare American history to what's happening right now is impossible.

This is not really, we are sort of living in like

the different timeline.

None of this is real. This is all a simulation.
There have been a lot of pardons in the past that were like, I mean, pardons are always a little bit controversial.

I remember Chelsea Manning's pardoning. People were like, oh my God, but the Arab Spring.
And like, there's always sort of like the opposition is always saying, you know.

And it's usually one of those things that a president does on their way out.

Yes. Yeah.
Like Roger Stone, Trump did that in 2020. Right.

Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn was in 2020. There was a whole sort of like crop of controversial pardons.
I mean, Biden pardoned his son. Like that was.

Dad, if you're watching, you better pardon my ass if you're ever in office. I want a pardon.
I might send my kid to the clink.

How would you do?

Just out here sullying the family name. Tell the story of when your dad was on a jury.

We might not have enough time for this. We'd have to wait for the next episode.
We'll do it next time. Okay.
Well, yes, there are a lot of examples of this happening throughout history.

None of them are as insane as, none of them have anything to do with human trafficking of minors. So that is sort of a wild thing if Trump does decide to pardon, say her name.
Ghislaine Maxwell.

Thank you so much.

So that would be. unprecedented in such a way that we would probably need a new word that is a synonym for unprecedented.
That hasn't been invented yet.

Anyway, those are the weirdest things people sent me today. Thank you so much, Congressman Garcia, for coming on the show today.
I had a great time talking to you.

I always have a good time talking to you. I'm glad we got it all on the record about Diddy Trial.
Maybe we'll do a whole Diddy episode. Maybe.
Thank you for watching Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foote.

And I'm Melissa Malbranch. I'll see your ass in court.

This has been an exactly right production recorded at iHeart Studios. Posted by me, Michael Foote.
And me, Melissa Malbranch. Our producer is C.J.
Ferroni.

This episode was edited by Nicholas Gallucci. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker is Patrick Huttner.

Our theme song was composed by Tom Breifogel with artwork from Charlotte Delarue and Manessa Lilac, with photography by Brad Obono.

Brief Recess is executive produced by Karen Kilgareth, Georgia Hardstark, and Danielle Kramer. You can find me on Instagram at Department of Redundancy Department or on TikTok at Michael Foote.

And I'm on both Instagram and TikTok as Melissa Malbranch. Got legal questions? Reach out at briefrecess at exactlyrightmedia.com.

Listen to Brief Recess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, we're a podcast with video.
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