508 - Live at Paramount Theatre (Oakland Night 2)

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Speaker 1 Mic check one, two.

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Speaker 6 Terms apply.

Speaker 6 What's up, Oakland?

Speaker 6 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Hell yes. That was the most.
That was the most.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Holy shit.
Yep.

Speaker 1 He just has a sign that said, I washed my bangs in the sink for this. Thank you.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Honored. Good job.

Speaker 1 Good job. Thank you, this side of the audience, for letting me yell at you.

Speaker 1 What a way to start. What a way to start.

Speaker 1 It's just foggy. We definitely are going to have serious ear canal damage after this tour.
It's so funny.

Speaker 1 We really appreciate it. We do.
We do.

Speaker 1 We love clapping and screaming at us. Did you spit your gum out right

Speaker 1 before we started? I had it still in my mouth. That's my old trick.
It's my old show business trick. We were about to come out, and Karen was like, oh, fuck, I should probably get this

Speaker 1 gum out of my mouth. I saw you chewing gum right on the edge of the stage.
Very unprofessional.

Speaker 1 Georgia, what did you do today in in the Bay Area okay thank you yes

Speaker 1 I went vintage shopping of course

Speaker 1 hate the upper hate is that right is the place to be I went to a place called relic that was amazing

Speaker 1 and I walked in there and I don't dress like this in my day-to-day. No.
So I walk in and they're like, oh, let's not let this girl try anything on.

Speaker 1 And someone followed right behind you the whole time you shopped? Yes, but then, you know, it went fine when I was like, I was, I don't know, normal, I guess. You acted normal.
I acted normal.

Speaker 1 Good, good. So that place was amazing.
We went to a couple other places. We went to a

Speaker 1 pub.

Speaker 1 Do you remember the name? It was Vince. What was it? It was something

Speaker 1 monkey.

Speaker 1 Mad Dog. Mad Dog? Mad Dog.
It was called Mad Dog. Oh, the Mad Dog and the Fog.

Speaker 1 The Mad Dog and the Fog.

Speaker 1 I've fallen down there many a time. Yes.

Speaker 1 And they were doing the best thing because, you know, like when you scroll all day and you hear, you know, snippets of songs, like five seconds of songs by heart, and then suddenly the real like song starts playing.

Speaker 1 You're like, holy shit. And they were just kept playing fucking like

Speaker 1 Instagram songs with the whole thing. And I was singing along and like mouthing them to Vince and being really annoying.
Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 At the mad dog in the fog. Yeah.
And then we, on the ride home, we decided we're going to move to San Francisco. Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 Yes, but she does this a lot. She does this a lot.

Speaker 1 It was sunny and we were day drunk. So,

Speaker 1 I mean, the life in this town. Truly.
The life in this town. What'd you do today? Well, I'm shocked that the upper hate, I just am trying to still process the upper hate coming all the way around.

Speaker 1 Let's see, I left in 94.

Speaker 1 So it's back, baby. It's fucking cool now, you guys.
It is. It only took 35 years or whatever.
It was a little gnarly when I lived here, for sure. Yeah.
But

Speaker 1 it's his. It's the place to be.

Speaker 1 And is there a banana republic?

Speaker 1 That shit's gone. I didn't see any of that shit.

Speaker 1 Capitalism. Are the rich kids from Marin still pretending they're punks and sitting on the street asking you for money?

Speaker 1 Which literally was like, so

Speaker 1 Karen's inciting a riot. I don't give a shit, man.

Speaker 1 I had two full-time jobs when I lived in the Upper Haight. I had to pay for that broom closet of a room I lived in.
And those kids would like be like, hey, can I have a dollar? And I'd be like, no.

Speaker 1 And they'd get up and get into a sob and drive away and just be like, shit. Must be nice.
Look at you now. Look at me having the last laugh.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 1 There's one person sitting in the audience crying. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That was me. I'm from Marin.

Speaker 1 This deeply hurts me in my rich feelings.

Speaker 1 And what did you do today? Oh,

Speaker 1 well, we went into the fairy building. That's right.
And we looked around.

Speaker 1 All I wanted was a turkey sandwich. You cannot get one there.
You can't. You can have a mufalata mufalata if you want to.
You can have your own whole charcuterie board built custom. Wow.

Speaker 1 But they won't serve turkey.

Speaker 1 They just refuse. You can't just get a fucking...

Speaker 1 can a bitch get a fucking turkey sandwich?

Speaker 1 A turkey sandwich.

Speaker 1 But we did, there's a really good store with some new things and some old things.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 That's for the people who don't want to go thrift store shopping. You do it for me.

Speaker 1 You got me some Kit Kats from

Speaker 1 Japan. There was a candy store because if there is a candy store that in any way has set up some plexiglass containers with scoops, I'm in there with my plastic bag.

Speaker 1 It's as if I think I have to support this mom and pop business. I don't care if it's full-on corporation.
I don't care. But I was going in there like, you don't need that.
You don't need that.

Speaker 1 And then they have this little bag that said, assorted Kit Kats from Japan. And I was like, well, I have to get that for Georgia.
Yeah. So I did.
I didn't get you anything. It's okay.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 But you know what I did get? What? Okay, so you know how I'm, I have a nervous nose and I'm just constantly blowing my nose. Like there's tissue back here.
It's really embarrassing.

Speaker 1 And today when I was at Relic, they had these for sale and I'm like, that looks way classier than a fucking nasty ass tissue.

Speaker 1 That and a monocle and you're all set.

Speaker 1 What I was supposed to say is you can have it. No, thank you.

Speaker 1 No, thank you.

Speaker 1 Oh, and okay, so when we got back to the hotel after drinking during the day, we saw these people getting getting out of like a cab, clearly from the airport, and they were like unloading their bags.

Speaker 1 And this chick had a fucking cooler for her room. And I was like, that's the most insanely brilliant thing I've ever seen.
Yeah. I love her.
And then she goes, Georgia!

Speaker 1 For sure, Margarino. We're like, yep.
Kendra, where's Kendra? Kendra. Shove up my car.
I got this. Fucking right in front.

Speaker 1 Yes, Kendra.

Speaker 1 Thank you for your service.

Speaker 1 Appreciate you. She's like, I'm so shit-faced, shit-faced, I don't know where I am right now.

Speaker 1 I hope this is good, but it won't matter because I'll be asleep in 15 minutes. Me too.

Speaker 1 Oh, speaking of, this is my favorite murder of the podcast. That's right.

Speaker 1 That's Georgia Hartstark. That's Karen Kilgara.
Woo!

Speaker 1 And you, Oakland, are here for us once again. Thank you so much for waiting six years for us.
We genuinely appreciate it.

Speaker 1 It's very exciting to be here with you. I was in my 30s last time we toured, and now I'm having hot flashes on stage.

Speaker 1 So it's cool. Well, the last time we played here, my niece Nora did a little cartwheel on stage.
You may have been here and saw it. She was nine.

Speaker 1 I thought it would be funny if she came and did it again. She did it, she did it, she didn't, because she just started college.

Speaker 1 So think about how much closer to death you are now. That's what I'm thinking about.

Speaker 1 How did that time pass?

Speaker 1 Like that? No, it's just flat time. No, no, it's a circle.
It's a circle. It's a circle circle.
That's right. Yeah.
I always forget which way that goes. It's a flat circle.
Yes. Like the pizza.

Speaker 1 What else? Should we sit? Oh, no, what are you wearing? Oh,

Speaker 1 wait, did you do your walk or you just talked about it? No, I just talked about going vintage shopping. Oh, okay.
So you go. I'll go because I don't have pockets.
And look, I'm really sorry. I know.

Speaker 1 You can leave now if you want to.

Speaker 1 Or someone should take that person out because it means too much to you.

Speaker 1 I got this dress in Spain.

Speaker 1 That's right. I've been to Europe, Kendra.
I've been to Europe. No brag.

Speaker 1 No brag.

Speaker 1 I forgot that there's ushers here here that are like, what the fuck is this? I always forget that.

Speaker 1 Why are they screaming about pockets? It doesn't make sense. They're literally mad.
There's no pockets. And do you want to give your dress a little spin?

Speaker 1 Okay, last night I realized that this is my, Karen just did this beautiful walk, this like model watch. And I realized, yeah, my pose of like, look what I'm wearing is this.

Speaker 1 Because I don't know what to do, but anyway.

Speaker 1 T-S-A.

Speaker 1 But tonight I remembered my bra. Last night I did not remember my bra, so it's a it's a win for everybody.
You guys are getting the full foundation garment show. This is going to be incredible.

Speaker 1 Watch the difference. If you were here last night, spot the difference tonight.

Speaker 1 It's going to change you. Full cup size.
It's so crazy. Your performance is going to be incredible.
It's going to be real perky. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, can we talk about the backstage slippers?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 So we've been, we have this like new tour manager who's not my husband. And for the past couple like,

Speaker 1 like he's not?

Speaker 1 For the past couple cities, I've been like, oh my god, slippers in our, in our dressing rooms. I've been so excited.
I love slippers. I can't go barefoot.
I hate shoes. Slippers, yay.

Speaker 1 But then last night, Karen's like, oh, those slippers are cute. And I'm like, well, you have a pair too.

Speaker 1 And I just thought someone was leaving their shoes in my dressing room.

Speaker 1 So I was like, oh, that's creepy. I don't know.

Speaker 1 Whoever was here before, I guess that's just what they're doing. I mean, is it weird that I automatically was like, these are mine.
Mine.

Speaker 1 But then you were saying we were...

Speaker 1 We were fast. Just take that time.

Speaker 1 We were saying that

Speaker 1 they filmed us when we were in

Speaker 1 Boston. Yeah, we were doing a secret filming thing that we can't really talk about, but it's very exciting.

Speaker 1 You'll see, or you won't. Or you won't.
You know how show business is. It could not happen.
But Georgia's had her slippers on, not realizing it.

Speaker 1 So she's like, she had a pair of slippers that said, let's go, girls. With like a happy face with a cowgirl hat on.
And it said, let's go, girls.

Speaker 1 And I realized that the filming people were filming my slippers as if I picked them out. And that's my personality.
And I was like, I was never.

Speaker 1 It is her personality. You're fucking kidding me.

Speaker 1 Hold on a second. Okay, what? I just need, and I hope I'm right about this.
I think I just spotted a hot dog on a stick employee in the audience. What?

Speaker 1 Could you stand up, please? Oh my god, stand your ass. Would you please? Yeah.
Yeah, girl.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Hold on, please. Karen never says nice things about people in the audience, so this is like

Speaker 1 huge. Now I will because is that a real uniform from Hot Dog on a Stick? It is.

Speaker 1 Did you work there?

Speaker 1 She worked at Ceremony, Hillsdale, and fucking Stonestown. Do you understand?

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, are you a regional manager of Hot Dog on a Stick? Like, you must be good if they're sending you around to different malls.

Speaker 1 Say again.

Speaker 1 They were desperate. They were desperate.
Do you know that, and sorry to waylay this, but my first seven minutes of stand-up comedy was about the girls that work at Hot Dog on a Stick?

Speaker 1 Did you know that? And how you guys used to have to squeeze the lemonade in your hot pants with your erectile hats.

Speaker 1 It's still good, right?

Speaker 1 I mean, she had to have stolen that outfit, right? Hell yes.

Speaker 1 You don't get to go home with that.

Speaker 1 You didn't have to pay them 75 bucks for that, did you? No, you just straight up stole it.

Speaker 1 Worth it.

Speaker 1 What's your name? Gina. Gina, welcome to this show.
Thank you so much. You've done it.

Speaker 1 Gina's done it.

Speaker 1 I love that. I love that your eyes were just like you can't see anything, but then you were like, But I was like,

Speaker 1 Excuse me.

Speaker 1 Someone from my old bit is here. I need to interview her.

Speaker 1 I think I saw you do that bit in like 2001 at Largo. Yes, I swear to God.
Isn't that crazy? Little baby Georgia was in the audience. Look at us now.

Speaker 1 I was up there like, I'm on speed and I have points to make.

Speaker 1 Should we? Yeah, let's stop drinking. Janice.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Uh-oh. Last night my feet were weird and I like kept, and it was just really aware of where my feet were the whole time instead of like...
Where'd you put them? I don't know.

Speaker 1 This was in the way and so I couldn't do

Speaker 1 like that. I also just realized I forgot to put lotion on my legs, so I'm really chalky and gross.
So that's fun. If anyone has lotion, you please pass it up.
That'd be great.

Speaker 1 If it was self-tanner, that'd be even better.

Speaker 1 For a nice kind of a nylon look. Still need the.

Speaker 1 Gotta have them. I actually am doing kind of a, in my seat, I was doing kind of a side saddle, lady chatterly kind of thing over here.
I was just like, because it's so, you know,

Speaker 1 comfort, but I don't know what that means.

Speaker 1 It's a literary reference about a dirty old book.

Speaker 1 Ew, I don't even read. Oh, really?

Speaker 1 Oh, want to tell them why they're here?

Speaker 1 What they're doing?

Speaker 1 No. Fucking happening.

Speaker 1 This is my favorite murder. It's a true crime comedy podcast.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Some people don't like that combination. We understand.
So to explain, we like to say that Georgia and I cope with our lifelong trauma through the use of humor.

Speaker 1 That's how a lot of us like to do it. We do not think murder is funny.
We just think we're funny. And so

Speaker 1 We also became obsessed with true crime at a much too young of an age. And so when we met each other, all of those things collided and we're like, we got to talk about this.

Speaker 1 And I've never done this part before. No, I love it.

Speaker 1 Just keep going. Do it.

Speaker 1 Go, go, man. I fucking love it.
Here's our two woman show. I'm writing it as we speak.

Speaker 1 Anyhow,

Speaker 1 let's see.

Speaker 1 We think we're funny. We think we're funny.

Speaker 1 Oh, and there's a lot of people that get dragged to this show against their will by their partners. That guy has a along.
Never know, he actually has merch to say he's a drag along.

Speaker 1 People don't know what the inside jokes are and they don't care and they don't like it, but they love their partner and that's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 1 So anyway, if you find that you don't like anything that's going on tonight, we invite you to get the fuck out.

Speaker 1 Except for the security guards. Except for please don't go.
Please don't go. Please don't go.

Speaker 1 It's real weird. We'll try to

Speaker 1 we'll work on it. Yeah.

Speaker 8 Get your mother-loving ears on because your big-time radio DJs got news.

Speaker 10 PayPal lets you choose how you want to pay for all the stuff.

Speaker 11 With PayPal, I can pay in store, pay online, or pay overtime.

Speaker 10 What's that?

Speaker 8 You want this translated into song? I hope you're sitting down.

Speaker 1 You can pay your own way.

Speaker 8 You keep those ears on, you hear? Don't just pay, baby. PayPal.

Speaker 12 Learn more at PayPal.com.

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Go bye. Go by.

Speaker 1 You're first. I'm first about us.
It's really scary.

Speaker 1 Last night I told a story about a ghost blimp, and that was like the easiest story I've ever told in my life. It was like, this has no stakes.
Right.

Speaker 1 I mean, except for that they disappeared, but tonight is not that. Right.
You're going to get serious. They liked it.
Okay. Well,

Speaker 1 Marcus, our tour manager who took Vince's place wrote G-Dog

Speaker 1 on my script.

Speaker 1 So I know it's mine. Thank you, Marcus.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, listen.
Today's story is about the eerie disappearance and suspicious death of a wealthy but troubled heiress who went out for a morning walk in 1929 and never made it home.

Speaker 1 This is a story of the disappearance of Edith Irene Wolfskill.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Is she your great auntie?

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 1 You just were then like, thank you so much. No one's clapping.

Speaker 1 The main sources I use for this story are

Speaker 1 local news reports by Bay Area publications such as the San Francisco Chronicle. Hooray.
You love it. The Oakland Tribune.
Hey.

Speaker 1 And the Sacrament LB.

Speaker 1 I think Sacramento is like represented. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Hey!

Speaker 1 After all I've done to you, what a beautiful thing. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 I'm getting hot. Okay.

Speaker 1 The rest of the sources can be found someday in our show notes. In the future show notes.
If they ever exist. This might be one of those shows that like just never sees the light of day.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like what would happen? Like what could happen that it would never be. It all becomes word of mouth.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So to understand this woman, Edith Irene Wolfskill, you have to know that she comes from

Speaker 1 one of California's wealthiest families.

Speaker 1 Her grandfather and his brother had been from the Midwest and they were among the earliest white settlers in California, first near LA and then in the Sacramento Valley. And her Edith's grandfather,

Speaker 1 Mathis, not Matteus, Mathis. Mathis? Yeah.
Let me see.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 They did the thing where like, you know, there are all these like people who are like, I'm going to hit gold in California. Gold miners? Yep.
Yep.

Speaker 1 And like those people like, it didn't go great. But then other people are like, I'm going to sell shit to the people trying to find gold.
And they got fucking wealthy.

Speaker 1 Like that's what happened to them. So

Speaker 1 they basically became ranchers, cattles, like crops, all this stuff. And ultimately, they wind up richer than most of the miners.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Just one thing.
Yeah. It's cattle.
What did I say?

Speaker 1 Cattles. Cattles.

Speaker 1 I did.

Speaker 1 Last night was Chiopino.

Speaker 1 Just a little crab Chiopino for everybody.

Speaker 1 It sounds right.

Speaker 1 I really don't want to do it, but I know it's sometimes fun and you do enjoy it. I love it.
Okay. Okay.
If I cared, I wouldn't be on stage in front of a bunch of fucking people. I don't do this.

Speaker 1 But I do love that the plural of cattle is cattle. You said cattles? Yeah.
Wow. You just threw a little S on there for spice.

Speaker 1 So Mathis' brother, Eva's great uncle William, becomes even wealthier.

Speaker 1 He gets into grapes and then wine and his massive ranch will become the Ritzy neighborhood of Holmby Hills, Westwood, and Bel Air over

Speaker 1 in our neck of the woods.

Speaker 1 You can feel that they're withholding booze. Yeah, we're

Speaker 1 moving here, so it's fine. You're fine.
I'm from here.

Speaker 1 So basically, they end up getting enough land to stretch over thousands of acres of vineyards, vineyards,

Speaker 1 orchids.

Speaker 1 Sorry, you know what? Orchards. Yeah, you got it.
You nailed it. Just don't overthink it.
I put too much on it.

Speaker 1 I'm really like. It's like, can you like get a hot flash by getting, like, bring on your own hot flash? Sure.
Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's Munchausen's wife's Hot Flash.

Speaker 1 So stupid.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 basically, that makes them two of the wealthiest men in the state. So congratulations to them.
To those guys. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So by the time Edith is born in San Francisco in 1872, she already has two older brothers.

Speaker 1 Following in Grandpa Mathis' footsteps, Edith's father, John Wolfskill, is a prominent rancher, and he's training his sons, Matthew and Nay, to follow suit. Nay, like with the horses? N-E-Y.

Speaker 1 Nay. That's rude.
Nay, yeah.

Speaker 1 Here's a picture of the grandfather. Oh.

Speaker 1 Or the father. That's the father, Edith's father.
Got it? John Wolfskill, pioneer of the second phone.

Speaker 1 If anyone here can do anything about bringing those sideburns back, it would be great.

Speaker 1 I'd really appreciate it. You know what I love about this? Like, he's younger than us in this photo.
Like, that's

Speaker 1 absolutely younger than us. He has no idea that Korean skincare is coming down the pipe for all of us.
He's out in the sun, baking his face. Okay, so that's him.

Speaker 1 But then they have a girl. Her name is Edith, and she's highly privileged.
She's sent away from the home immediately, as soon as she's old enough to attend finishing school

Speaker 1 in Europe.

Speaker 1 In Paris, France, Europe?

Speaker 1 The sole daughter of John and his wife, Susan Wolfskill, Edith is described as beautiful with brown hair. And, okay, I don't think this fucking exists in real life.
I only ever see this in fiction.

Speaker 1 Cool gray eyes. Gray eyes.
Have you ever seen a person with gray eyes before? That's not a fucking thing. Like, go to the doctor.
Something's wrong.

Speaker 1 That's when your eyes are about to fail. That's the last.

Speaker 1 It's the last color before your eyes go out.

Speaker 1 I don't buy buy it. Completely.

Speaker 1 Shut up. I don't buy that scam.

Speaker 1 Okay, they're gray, your gray eyes. Sure.
Congratulations.

Speaker 1 Being a society girl, she's written about in the papers as quote, one of California's prized beauties.

Speaker 1 Her delicate pink-white skin and wide eyes, her long rich brown hair, and fascinating form, aka she's stat. Yeah, baby.

Speaker 1 And fascinating. Made her the darling of the state's aristocracy.

Speaker 1 God damn it.

Speaker 1 That was a good one. Say it.

Speaker 1 Aristocracy? Thank you. I had this backstage.
No, you swear. You've practiced so many times.

Speaker 1 I was trying to hit that stacked line joke. So I didn't.
You got it. You know, and I did.
Then everything else went to shit.

Speaker 1 I think we have a picture of her. Let's take a look.
Well, well, there's a vague thing. fascinating.

Speaker 1 There's a vague thing of her.

Speaker 1 No wonder.

Speaker 1 They're just like, okay, can you turn around? We just need to get that ass.

Speaker 1 No, no, you're not going to look over here. She had a big zit on that side of her face.
I've been there. She's like, it's a new thing.
I'm going to look at the back wall.

Speaker 1 Concentrate on my dumbbell.

Speaker 1 It's fascinating.

Speaker 1 But as lovely and wealthy as she may be, Edith is different when she returns to California from Europe in the late 1800s. So what the fuck? Beret smoking.

Speaker 1 Fake accent.

Speaker 1 Let's pretend. She's starting to act peculiar and it's worrying her family.
Unfortunately, religious is one of those things. Yeah, not, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 Don't be mad at me. I don't think they're here.

Speaker 1 But you guys should have seen when we were in Salt Lake City. Like, they woo-hooed at Mormonism, like really fucking a lot of people who were like, really?

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 The cool Mormonism. Yeah.
They get Botox. That's right.

Speaker 1 They have their own Real Housewives series.

Speaker 1 They're

Speaker 1 Saul anyone wants.

Speaker 1 It seems that Edith becomes so obsessed with religion that she kneels in the streets of San Francisco and prays loudly. Dirty.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 she means the street, not Edith. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 So dirty.

Speaker 1 Shouting scripture at her neighbors out of nowhere. Rich people love that.
That's right. I love it.
She frequently announces herself to be the Empress of the World, which fucking amen. I mean,

Speaker 1 I love it. In a world by her late 20s, Edith doesn't seem to have any suitors, but...

Speaker 1 or marriage prospects, but it seems like her family's like great because she's very wealthy and they don't want to just like marry her off to someone who will take advantage of her.

Speaker 1 Right, because she's the empress of the world. Right.
Like, that's hard to match. Yeah.
Excuse me.

Speaker 1 God damn it. You can't, you can't, you know, you can't be perfect.
You have to have one thing wrong with you sometimes. You can't have great feet like these and fucking not,

Speaker 1 you know? This is why we podcast.

Speaker 1 He had to leave. Yeah.
Okay. He's like, he's like, I can't do this anymore.
I don't want to do this anymore.

Speaker 1 Okay, so her family is so rich and involved that everyone knows it's the Wolfskill heiress who's freaking out in public, essentially. So like, you know, they're just, they're very

Speaker 1 protective of her, it seems like. And they commit her to California General Hospital in hopes that she can be, quote, fixed.

Speaker 1 Those are my quotes. They didn't say that.
Okay.

Speaker 1 By Dr. William Chapman Ralston Jr., who I bet your mom has talked about before.

Speaker 1 Yeah, every night at dinner. Story after story of Dr.
William Ralph Watson Jr. Wow.

Speaker 1 So, on two occasions, she wanders from inpatient facilities in

Speaker 1 Belmont and San Francisco and just kind of like wanders away, but luckily, both times she's found unharmed.

Speaker 1 At the hospital, she's medicated and supervised until she's allowed to return home to the family ranch in Fairfield.

Speaker 1 Nobody.

Speaker 1 No one likes the nut tree? Okay.

Speaker 1 You're fools.

Speaker 1 Which is about 50 miles away,

Speaker 1 in case she needed directions.

Speaker 1 And out in the country, she likes to take daily hikes through the hilly trails. It's not a bunch of suburban little boxes at the time.
It's like beautiful and nice.

Speaker 1 Edith lives in a white farmhouse with gingerbread trim and a wraparound porch. It's idyllic.
It's nestled among her family's vineyards and peach orchids. God damn it.
Why can't I do that one?

Speaker 1 You've always been

Speaker 1 orchard. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Although a peach orchid would be gorgeous.

Speaker 1 I'm actively trying to not kill an orchid right now

Speaker 1 at home, so that might be the problem. Don't overwater it.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'm not going to tell you what I saw on Instagram and how to make it work.

Speaker 1 That you take it all apart and pull the roots out? Yeah, don't do that. I did it.

Speaker 1 Did it work? It's fucking working. No.
For the first time in my life,

Speaker 1 I've seen an orchid bud. I've never seen a bud before.
They always just die no thank you

Speaker 1 no you're right thank you you guys will fucking clap for anything that's crazy

Speaker 1 a plant bloomed and she gets credit I don't think so I didn't kill a plant

Speaker 1 but actually it is it is amazing because I watched someone do that also on channel

Speaker 1 and I was like should I because I also have an orchid that I'm trying not to kill and I was like I'm gonna do this I can't risk it and it was like a whole thing and I was like I wouldn't risk it it's gonna die anyways So it's fine.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, at least you get those little hair clips out of it, you know?

Speaker 1 To make this into a positive. Those cute little 90s.
They go right into the hair. Butterfly clips.

Speaker 1 That's right. Okay.

Speaker 1 So she's living this nice life with peaches, and she loves to go on long walks in the countryside.

Speaker 1 And she becomes kind of famous around town for these wandering walks because a woman wandering on her own. Oh my god.

Speaker 1 She must be wealthy. She must be the empress of the world.

Speaker 1 And a Fresno Bee reporter writes that Edith is known by locals

Speaker 1 to be quote, to be a quote, powerful hiker, and her tall, wiry figure was frequently seen swinging down the hill trails. What are you

Speaker 1 swinging? I don't know. Is that Bigfoot?

Speaker 1 Look at that large person. It's like kind of insulting.

Speaker 1 Neighbors view Edith as a little unpredictable but ultimately harmless and she might mutter to herself a lot but they mostly see her standing on hilltops cup then this is cupping her hands around her face to see into the distance better I don't know

Speaker 1 like a where's Waldo kind of thing

Speaker 1 I think I wonder what yeah I wonder what she was looking for

Speaker 1 she sounds cool she sounds like she'd be here

Speaker 1 if it was now yeah for real first of all but also it's like what was the problem? She went to Europe. She got the Lord.

Speaker 1 She tried to talk about it.

Speaker 1 And everyone's like, you're insane. Go to a sanitarium.
And then her family's like, you don't have to do that because we're rich. Here's a little house.
And you're out by yourself in a field.

Speaker 1 I could have, you could have just done my whole story. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 Yes, you're right. Yes.
Okay. Yeah.
Because that seems... It's like, leave her alone.
How about she doesn't have to wear 16 layers of silk everywhere she goes?

Speaker 1 And she won't mutter to herself all the time. It's like, I'm so fucking

Speaker 1 fucking broad. I need to get 14 ribs removed to put this corset on.

Speaker 1 She's like, where are my rights? I can't even vote.

Speaker 1 Right? I was thinking of that the whole time. That was great.
I just killed two minutes so I could think of that joke.

Speaker 1 Okay, so things take a turn when Edith's father dies in 1913.

Speaker 1 Edith is in her early 40s, and she and her brothers split his estate of $1.6 million

Speaker 1 in,

Speaker 1 no, but that's in $1913.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 today. Today's money, $1.3 million would be something.
It's $1.6. You're like, it's going to matter.
No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm telling you. It's $1.6, not $1.3.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. You didn't give it away.
Is it $10 million?

Speaker 1 No. Is it close? No.

Speaker 1 You want to go one more time? Sure.

Speaker 1 Higher, lower? Higher. Someone said higher.
Oh my God, I love this game show.

Speaker 1 Okay, then I'm going to say $17 million.

Speaker 1 $4.9.4 million.

Speaker 1 Wait, go. $49.4.

Speaker 1 $49.

Speaker 1 I'm so hot. It's so hot.

Speaker 1 Up here.

Speaker 1 How long did you stay at Mad Dog in the fog?

Speaker 1 I took a nap. I swear to God, I took a nap and that's all that matters

Speaker 1 49 million dollars yeah jesus christ so that's their the estate and the brothers matt and nae

Speaker 1 no shock to anyone fucking hate each other like of course they do they're like fighting over 50 million fucking dollars just like succession

Speaker 1 that's right um and they're put in charge of their sister's care which of course is hard because they hate each other but they actually really love their sister and want to take care of her so they're not total dicks.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 Matt and Nay clash violently over control of the profits of that money and management of their ranch, particularly the

Speaker 1 orchards. Yeah.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 1 I need it. I just need applause for anything.

Speaker 1 We all do. Janet really withheld.

Speaker 1 That's why why we're here, girl. That's why we're here.
You worked very hard to get applauded for the word orchard.

Speaker 1 You deserve it. But they basically put their differences apart long enough to make sure that their sister is safe and under the supervision of a live-in nurse as her caretaker.

Speaker 1 And at the family ranch, at least she can be taken care of and you know, contained. But also, it seems like they care about her.
Here's a picture of something. I don't remember what.
Let's see.

Speaker 1 Whatever it is.

Speaker 1 Put anything up. You know, pictures of cute

Speaker 1 Oh, Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 Okay, that's, I didn't mean to do that. Okay.

Speaker 1 Don't worry about it. Million Dollar Mystery of the Mad Aris.
Thank you. Good looking at it.
Was it too soon? No, but it also was too huge. It doesn't matter.
I liked how big it was.

Speaker 1 It felt like modern art, kind of.

Speaker 1 Like what do you see up close, what you see far away? Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's a dolphin.

Speaker 1 So on July 14th, 1929, a 57 year old now edith leaves the house around 7 a.m for her regular morning walk it's a cool summer day so she wears a light dress maybe not all her silks yeah and her housekeeper plans to see her return in time for lunch remember she's like famous for her strolls that's insulting walks you know walks stroll hikes I mean I'm gonna stroll.

Speaker 1 Oh, she can only stroll. Yeah, she's fucking walking.
Like, let her live. Let her stride even.

Speaker 1 But Edith isn't back by lunch, and she's nowhere to be found on the trails or in town.

Speaker 1 And because her family is so prominent, the response to the nurse's call to the sheriff is, you know, they're a friend of the family. It's pretty quick.

Speaker 1 And knowing that Edith's eccentric appearance may have attracted attention, remember she's not wearing all her skirts. Oh, that's right.

Speaker 1 The sheriff suspects that someone who knew she was both vulnerable and from a rich family might have kidnapped her.

Speaker 1 So the deputy is assigned to stay at the house and and keep watch for anyone who might drop off a ransom note. Like that's their immediate suspicion.
But nobody ever comes with a ransom note.

Speaker 1 Hundreds of people descend on the ranch and case the grounds. Edith was seen every single day.
And there's just eerily no sign of her whatsoever, not on the ranch grounds.

Speaker 1 Man, Allie just really wanted to fuck with me by putting orchard.

Speaker 1 Orchard. She just keeps putting it in there.
I'm not going to say that anymore. Did you ever go to orchard supply hardware? Orchard Supply.

Speaker 1 That could help you. Orchard.
Just think of that. Okay.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 I'll get you a pneumatic aid that fixes this problem by the time the story's over. Appreciate you.

Speaker 1 So basically, they look everywhere they can't find her. Neighbors and local townspeople join the search.
Dogs, horses, everyone is looking for her because this is fair. What? Dogs and horses?

Speaker 1 Hey, man. This way, Rusty.

Speaker 1 After you, ladies. Like on their own accord.

Speaker 1 This is weird. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Nay. Remember Nay? Nay.

Speaker 1 Nay is out there. There's some joke there.

Speaker 1 The Los Angeles bank, where most of Edith's money is kept, puts up a $1,000 reward for information leading to her being found. Do you want to, or should we just say? $58,000?

Speaker 1 $18,000. It's fucking.

Speaker 1 It's never satisfying. It's never right.
And it's never satisfying. Anyway.
I like it.

Speaker 1 We saw the photo. It's a big whole thing.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 this is the time where Georgia kind of doesn't want to do her story anymore.

Speaker 1 You know, you saw that. I don't like going first.
I don't know why. It's tough.
It is.

Speaker 1 You just got power through it. Yep.

Speaker 1 What's really funny is you can always tell because my glass is always empty by the end of the show and Karen's isn't. Like, who gets nervous and who doesn't?

Speaker 1 All right,

Speaker 1 thank you. Thanks for the screen.

Speaker 1 So, there's some tips.

Speaker 1 Someone says they spotted Edith in the town of Red Bluff, which is more than a hundred miles, nope, nobody, north of Edith's home. They're trying to rep Red Bluff back there.

Speaker 1 We love it in Red Bluff.

Speaker 1 But there's always wild goose chase tips, and nothing comes to fruition.

Speaker 1 and so basically with Edith having been missing a whole week the weather gets much hotter It's in the middle of summer and the concern is that Edith could not survive in such conditions without food or water and you know at night We know it gets really cold as well and she wasn't wearing a lot of layers So meanwhile her brothers Matt and Nay are forced into close proximity over the course of the investigation which they don't like to do and they have screaming matches in the sheriff's office in front of newspapers like these dudes, they're like the Gallagher brothers, like Oasis, which can't even, you know.

Speaker 1 Noel and Liam are in it with the sheriffs. I like that the journalists are there, where it's like, if everyone could meet, well, my brother and I fight, that would be great.

Speaker 1 I hate you so much that I can't not yell at you in front of a place that's going to tell everyone we're yelling at each other. Immediately turn around,

Speaker 1 word by word.

Speaker 1 And so basically, Nay blames his brother for hiring the nurse that Edith ran away from, saying it's the nurse's fault that she ran, and it's his brother's fault for hiring him.

Speaker 1 And Matt, on the other hand, believes that Edith has been kidnapped, and so they're just arguing about what happened to her, and neither of them know. And it's not cool.

Speaker 1 So basically, despite all the sightings and efforts put into finding Edith, she's still not found by the end of summer, and people begin moving on from what has become a harrowing and really strenuous weeks-long search effort until September 19th, a little more than two months after Edith disappears, the 18-year-old son of a neighboring rancher is walking along a dried-up creekbed,

Speaker 1 looking for a stick to knock fruit off the trees. Sounds illegal.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 that's what we like to do out in the country.

Speaker 1 It's stick time, we say to each other.

Speaker 1 And then we search and search in the creekbed.

Speaker 1 And then this part is why they hate us. Yes.
When he finds Edith's body. Oh, shit.
Sorry. That's why everyone hates us.

Speaker 1 I was about to say, shouldn't do a character right before your body. Sorry, I could have.
That's on me.

Speaker 1 It's badly decomposed, and this leads the sheriff to wonder if Edith's body could have possibly been in this one spot since she died.

Speaker 1 But the creekbed is about a mile and a half from Edith's house and has been searched many, many times since Edith's disappearance two months prior.

Speaker 1 So it seems that the only possible explanation is that Edith's body had been brought there sometime after her death.

Speaker 1 Right? Like they couldn't have just not seen it, right?

Speaker 1 Since the most thorough searching was done in the week after her disappearance, another theory is that maybe she was alive for a week and wandering and then died in the spot, either at someone's hand or of natural causes.

Speaker 1 And at the same time, a deputy sheriff says that that spot had been searched at least 50 times. Oh, wow.
Yeah, so it's very mysterious.

Speaker 1 But in many weeks after her disappearance, and by different parties every time. So, yeah, it seems like that there's a disagreement on

Speaker 1 when people actually search that area, but it's enough times to be like, it's not two times, it's 50 times. Right.

Speaker 1 That's math.

Speaker 1 That is simple math.

Speaker 1 So it's possible that Eva died at this spot, in the spot of natural causes, but she would have to have been somewhere else during the roughly two-week period when the highest number of people were looking for her.

Speaker 1 But basically,

Speaker 1 okay, so Edith's cousin, Reed Wolfskill, recalls looking in that exact spot almost two weeks after Edith's disappearance. And Reed, along with another cousin, is the one to identify her body via

Speaker 1 clothes and shoes found near her.

Speaker 1 And so at this point, Edith's brother, Ney, who had thought Edith had wandered wandered away and it was the housekeeper's fault, he changes his mind and agrees with his estranged brother because it just doesn't make any sense that no one would have found her.

Speaker 1 He thinks foul play is involved and

Speaker 1 basically

Speaker 1 it's very strange. And, you know, that they think someone had been trying to keep her hidden until she was found.

Speaker 1 And strangely, Edith is not wearing the shirt and skirt she left home in.

Speaker 1 Instead, she's wearing brown men's overalls described as the kind mostly worn by carpenters, and there's a handwritten note in her pocket.

Speaker 1 So basically, they have to do a chemical process to find out what it actually says because it's so worn.

Speaker 1 But it says, quote, do not give anything, dot, dot, dot, do not show sympathy, dot, dot, dot, do not speak to any nurse, dot, dot, dot, do not speak magic, walk out, sleep only in the daytime and drink water, bathe before I dress, use gifts, shun all change.

Speaker 1 Right? Like, there's no way you're decoding that. Or she's writing a song.

Speaker 1 But hold on. Do you think there's a possibility

Speaker 1 this is like a list to herself, and she like went out in disguise? It seems like, yeah, maybe she's trying to escape. Like, maybe there's more to her captivity than just keeping her at home, right?

Speaker 1 Maybe they're actually keeping her captive.

Speaker 1 And so there's not a lot about the handwriting and whether it was hers or not written, but about a day later, investigators discovered that signs that someone has been living in a shack on the ranch bordering the Wolfskill property.

Speaker 1 The owner of the property had thought that the cabin had been abandoned for years, but on the stove, there are eggshells and other food scraps as if someone had been living there.

Speaker 1 We haven't seen scrambled eggs here in 25 years.

Speaker 1 Right. Thank you.
I had to do it. You did, and I appreciate you.

Speaker 1 The bed looks like it had been recently slept in, and on the walls, various phrases have been scrawled, and they look like religious words and phrases that Edith often wrote on her walks, on like fences and stuff.

Speaker 1 Another neighboring rancher, I mean, this is so stupid, says that on July 17th, three days after her disappearance, when everyone is looking for her, he heard a woman's screams coming from the cabin.

Speaker 1 and just didn't do anything about it.

Speaker 1 Just nothing.

Speaker 1 So the mystery of whether Edith was living in the cabin, which seems likely, and whether she was alone or held there, we don't know. But

Speaker 1 prior to her disappearance in recent years, she had always returned home from her hike. So it's not like she was totally held captive.
She was allowed to roam as much as she wanted.

Speaker 1 So three surgeons examine Edith's body, and at least one of them,

Speaker 1 Dr. A.A.

Speaker 1 Berger, your best friend. My best.
Bestie.

Speaker 1 He disagrees with the theory that there's there's foul play involved and none of her, because none of her bones are broken and she hasn't ingested any poison. And both he and a pathologist named A.M.

Speaker 1 Moody, what's with all these? It was all initials, but yeah.

Speaker 1 Actually, find a blood clot in her brain. Oh.

Speaker 1 So they say she could have died of natural causes, but it doesn't explain how she got to the spot where she was found after they had already looked there.

Speaker 1 But any evidence from the overalls is inconclusive. I mean, it's the, they're not doing hardcore science on those overalls back then.
You know, they're like, shake them out, nothing, great.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's that's forensic files back then. Yeah, shake them out, and then read the runes of the dust on the ground.

Speaker 1 So basically, a couple months later, the Solano County coroner concludes an inquest into the cause of death. And Solano, you guys like Solano?

Speaker 1 They're literally doing it to every city and county.

Speaker 1 But I want it. I want the

Speaker 1 verdict is death from cause unknown. I think there's another photo.
Let's take a look at this picture, if there is.

Speaker 1 That's her. That was her then.
That was her. I'm telling you, I'm older than her.
There's like she's 30.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 It's all Botox and filler

Speaker 1 over here.

Speaker 1 But do we think that

Speaker 1 the blood clot in her brain had something to do with her behavior? That would be my stupid random guess. Yeah.
You know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 It would be my very educated guess.

Speaker 1 I bet, right?

Speaker 1 I mean, it would be interesting to know. I got that from an episode of Law and Order.
Song's behavior changes. It'd be really interesting to know.
Unfortunately, I'm telling this story.

Speaker 1 for my favorite murder, which means we don't fucking know. Yep, that's right.

Speaker 1 And then by the time that her verdict, her cause of death is released, Edith's brothers seem to be ready to just let go. They don't make any public contest to the findings.

Speaker 1 Ney and his wife accompany Edith's body to Los Angeles, where she's buried in a plot next to her parents.

Speaker 1 And the brothers battle it out over how to manage Edith's estate because she did have a chunk of that. And they were looked into, and they didn't need her portion of the estate.

Speaker 1 And it seems like they hated each other but cared about her.

Speaker 1 So after a month, they agree to put a trust company in charge of what she left behind, which is somewhere between, in today's money, $9 and $18 million.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 And because she was worth so much, some speculate that it was her brothers, but it doesn't seem, I just said that. It doesn't seem like it.

Speaker 1 And that's the story of the unexplained disappearance and death of Edith Irene Wolfskill, the Empress of the World. The Empress of the World.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Crazy.

Speaker 1 Just slam it down.

Speaker 1 That was great. Thank you.
Am I? Okay. Everything's great.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Now,

Speaker 1 where do you, where do you,

Speaker 1 Kendra? Kendra. Where do you,

Speaker 1 if you were going to go apple picking, what would you walk through to do that? A field

Speaker 1 of trees, a copse of trees. Oh, someone reads books.

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Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Let's get through my story real quick and get out of here.

Speaker 1 We're all busy. My story starts in the late 1980s

Speaker 1 when I was at my prime. Oh, what's this? Let's take a look.
Oh my God. That's right.

Speaker 1 Karen.

Speaker 1 Billy, I wish, could never. I keep the wrong name.

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, in Orange County,

Speaker 1 I don't know what she's going to do.

Speaker 1 It's so funny. Today she texts me and she's like, is it okay if I have been send a photo of you and you're not going to know what it is, but I'm going to put it up?

Speaker 1 Dude, like, do you trust me, basically?

Speaker 1 And Vince was like, I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 No, don't go back. I want to see people storytelling.
He nailed it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he was like, I don't want to embarrass you or anything.

Speaker 1 I think that's perfect. Oh my God, it says mammoth right there, I think.
No, you're doing, you're in mammoth wearing a mammoth sweatshirt.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to seriously graduate from high school with all my eyebrows intact.

Speaker 1 Oh my god, that makes me want to cry. I don't know why.
It's like I just thought I'd, you know, really ground CRS at the top of this story. I love it.
Okay, thank you.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 this does start,

Speaker 1 we make our way back to the Bay Area, but it starts at Princeton University in New Jersey, if you've ever heard of it. Admissions officials receive an application that they take note of.

Speaker 1 It's less a formal application and more of a glorified note sent by a 17-year-old student named Alexei Santana.

Speaker 1 And in it, Alexei paints a romantic picture of his life in Utah, herding cattle by day and reading Plato by campfire at night, sleeping outside under the stars with his horse named Good Enough by his side.

Speaker 1 Ouch.

Speaker 1 Right? Good enough? Good enough. This sounds like the beginning of Legally Blonde.
For sure.

Speaker 1 We'll see. What if I just read you the script of Legally Blonde? I'm like, and good night.

Speaker 1 So there's no teacher recommendations or list of extracurricular activities that are included in this. Apparently, that's what you do when you submit for college.
Good to know.

Speaker 1 There's not even a high school transcript, but Alexi does include a newspaper clipping from a track meet that he's won.

Speaker 1 And then Alexei explains that his difficult life circumstances, an absent father, and a deathly ill mother who needs his constant care, have kept him from traditional schooling.

Speaker 1 He actually claims that he's never once set foot in a school and that he's entirely self-taught. And yet he has higher than average SET scores and a clear athletic talent.

Speaker 1 The Princeton officials are amazed. And in the end, Alexei is not only admitted to Princeton, but he's given a $20,000 athletic scholarship.

Speaker 1 But he has to defer for a year because of his sick mother.

Speaker 1 But in the fall of 1989, he finally arrives on the Princeton campus. But what no one at Princeton knows is that this brilliant, philosophical, athletic young cowboy named Alexi Santana does not exist.

Speaker 1 And the Alexi who shows up on campus to begin matriculation, I just threw that in.

Speaker 1 I just threw it in

Speaker 1 is actually a 29-year-old drifter with a criminal rap sheet and a history of the same con that he's already pulled right here in the Bay Area. This is the story of the college con man, James Hoag.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 Love a con man. Love a con man story.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So some of the main sources used in this one are David Samuel's deep dive article for the New Yorker entitled The Runner, which ran in thank you for getting all the way down on the ground.

Speaker 1 She also ran

Speaker 1 pretty cool. That is the runner right there.

Speaker 1 David Samuels' deep dive article, The Runner, which ran in The New Yorker in 2001, a New York Times article

Speaker 1 by James Barron and M.A. Farber, and a Denver Post article entitled The Con Artist Next Door by Nancy Lofholm.
So James Hoag is born in 1959 in a working-class neighborhood in Kansas City, Kansas.

Speaker 1 And from the beginning, sure,

Speaker 1 two things,

Speaker 1 from from the beginning, two things are pretty clear.

Speaker 1 James is smart and he's obsessed with running. He's very good at it, so much so that he sees running as his ticket to a higher income bracket.

Speaker 1 His dream is to parlay his incredible athletic skills into a scholarship to a top-tier college, which will then lay the foundation for his future success.

Speaker 1 One

Speaker 1 childhood friend named Keith Mark will later, the two first names, my least favorite thing in the world,

Speaker 1 will later describe James as, quote, one of the smartest kids that I've ever known, a very good, polite kid, never in any trouble, trained all the time, had a tremendous gift to run, literally the best runner.

Speaker 1 He could have been Olympic class. He had big-time talent, is what he had.

Speaker 1 End quote.

Speaker 1 Is what he had.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 Keith actually,

Speaker 1 the end of the full quote

Speaker 1 includes this important line, quote but when we were in high school James was very much an individualist and he did not like to be told what to do

Speaker 1 end quote

Speaker 1 I mean hey join us join us James

Speaker 1 So from a young age James resists and rebels against any authority and he seems to have a bit of an ego as well. So now it's 1977.
James enrolls at the University of Wyoming.

Speaker 1 No one comes.

Speaker 1 Nobody lives there. That's right.

Speaker 1 Nobody lives there.

Speaker 1 So he's made it on the varsity cross-country team as a freshman. It's his dream come true.

Speaker 1 And actually, the University of Wyoming has been investing in its track program and recruiting the best young runners from around the world. Come, live in Wyoming, run.

Speaker 1 Run away.

Speaker 1 So for the first time in his life, James is actually struggling to keep up. The other recruits are way faster than him.

Speaker 1 He starts practicing harder. He pushes his body to the point of injury.
And his friends can tell that it's all getting to him because he seems to get really down on himself.

Speaker 1 But they also notice that he's suddenly got a bunch of stuff like medals and bicycles and stereos that he never had before. And it is, at the very least, suspicious.

Speaker 1 So now James is around 20 years old. He's a sophomore.
He's in his sophomore year of college, doing very well in classes.

Speaker 1 You did great. No one noticed.

Speaker 1 But he's still struggling on the track. He competes in a regional track meet.
He finishes, this one's a heartbreaker, 226 out of 250 runners. You just don't even want to compete.
No.

Speaker 1 You know, at that point.

Speaker 1 And he takes his running very seriously. So obviously this is devastating.
This is that kind of thing where like you're in high school and you're like, God, I'm so good at this thing.

Speaker 1 And then you step one foot out into the real world and you're like, I'm fucking terrible at everything. That's what Los Angeles is full of.

Speaker 1 That's really hot people from their hometown who come to LA and then it's like the most beautiful people you've ever seen in your fucking life. Yeah.
And you're just cute. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's right. And you're the neighbor.
You become the neighbor in the sitcom. I don't know about that.
You're cute and you're like, maybe you can tap dance a little.

Speaker 1 And other than that, everyone's a supermodel and they're like a quadruple, triple threat. That's right.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Listen, we'll explain Hollywood to you.

Speaker 1 Just give us a second. So

Speaker 1 now

Speaker 1 I said that and he's doing, okay, so out of 250, he comes in 226.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 Not long after this, James drops out of school completely and then he resurfaces down in Austin, Texas, where he enrolls at the University of Texas, nope, with a major...

Speaker 1 With a major in chemical engineering. Wait, he can do chemical engineering and he's like mad at running? Yes.
Like I can do neither of those things.

Speaker 1 And he's still depressed. Dude, we've got to look on the bright side, guys.

Speaker 1 Who are you, Karen?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 he also joins the track team. And he's getting excellent grades, but he is not doing well at track.

Speaker 1 UT's head recruiter James Blackwood will remember, quote, he wasn't a bad college runner, probably better than average, decent, but I think he thought he was better than a lot of guys on the Texas team.

Speaker 1 Then he got out there with them and they ran him into the ground. End quote.

Speaker 1 So in 1982, James's five-year eligibility to

Speaker 1 compete in NCAA events expires, effectively ending his college running career.

Speaker 1 But instead of focusing his energy on getting his degree in chemical engineering, which was what he was doing and apparently good at, he gets really depressed.

Speaker 1 And the next year, he's caught stealing equipment from a local bike shop. So he's arrested and this is his first documented run-in with the law, but it is not his last.

Speaker 1 So he drops out of UT with only a couple credits left for him to graduate

Speaker 1 and then he just disappears. How many credits do you still need to grab?

Speaker 1 I almost have my associates in very many, many things. So I was like, no, I don't want to do that.
I'm going to switch it. Hold on.

Speaker 1 What about cooking?

Speaker 1 Okay. So about two years after this, in late 1985, James is now around 25 years old and he resurfaces.
This time it's at the enrollment office of Palo Alto High School.

Speaker 1 Also known as Pally.

Speaker 1 And James is now claiming to be 17 years old. Oh, shit.

Speaker 1 He tells them that he is an orphan named J. Mitchell Huntsman, and he has an incredible story.
He claims he was born in San Diego, but raised on a Nevada commune, and, right, all of it.

Speaker 1 And he says he's entirely self-educated, this is going to sound familiar, and just a disciplined athlete who runs upwards of 60 miles a week. That part might actually be true.

Speaker 1 He also claims both of his parents have recently died in a car accident, but he still wants to work towards his diploma while putting his running skills to use on the school's track team.

Speaker 1 He plans to hopefully get admitted to Stanford University in a couple years,

Speaker 1 which happens to be right across the street from Palo Alto High School. Oh, so he's just like, you know what? Let me start over.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Let me start over in high school. Yeah.
In high school. So

Speaker 1 he can't let the track dream go. Sure.
Obviously. Me neither.

Speaker 1 Right? You'll do it someday.

Speaker 1 So, and it's kind of weird because he could have had a degree from college in chemical engineering, but he's he's going back. Got the basics.
Buck those knees up. That's right.
So

Speaker 1 the good news is James's scheme totally works and people buy this story.

Speaker 1 Even though he looks a bit older than he claims to be,

Speaker 1 his classmates and teachers just shrug it off.

Speaker 1 One faculty member actually tells reporters later, quote, as a teacher, I thought it was rude for me to even think that he was older, even though he was very thin and you could see the shadow of his beard.

Speaker 1 Okay, now this is that Drew Barrymore movie where she goes back to

Speaker 1 the same

Speaker 1 if she loved jogging. Okay.

Speaker 1 So what's important is that 25-year-old James is now running high school track again, and this time he is killing it, of course.

Speaker 1 Got his second chance as Jay Huntsman. He crushes the first competitive cross-country race that he is enrolled in, so much so that he gets write-ups in a local newspaper about it.
No, don't do that.

Speaker 1 But one sports reporter from a newspaper called the Peninsula Times Tribune, which doesn't exist anymore, that journalist named Jason Cole is

Speaker 1 there that day and he's a little skeptical.

Speaker 1 He has this nagging feeling about this very mature-looking student, so he decides to do some digging to the point where he actually requests a copy of Jay Huntsman's birth certificate from the city of San Diego.

Speaker 1 And that's when Jason learns the real Jay Huntsman died in infancy more than a decade earlier.

Speaker 1 So although he can't explain the why here, Jason is positive that Pally's newest track star is actually a grown man. God, how creepy would that be? The best.
I love it so much.

Speaker 1 It's the kind of thing where like I it would be like a weird dream slash nightmare I would have where it's like I'd be in high school and people like, hey, you're going to the dance. I'm like, I'm 42.

Speaker 1 What are you guys doing? I can't, I shouldn't be here. Where are my pants?

Speaker 1 So while journalist Jason Cole works on this expose,

Speaker 1 James is living licenses life as an orphaned high school track star and the Pally community just embraces and supports him.

Speaker 1 In October of 1985, he wins the Stanford Invitational High School cross-country race. See, if you want, you can't win, you know, you have to keep a low profile.

Speaker 1 You got like fourth place, you know, not old 225th place. He's going to win every single chance he gets.
Shit.

Speaker 1 And this is actually described by one reporter as, quote, the most prestigious high school race in the country for an adult.

Speaker 1 For an old man.

Speaker 1 But only days after that victory comes Jason Cole's byline

Speaker 1 as it appears in the Peninsula Times Tribune and it says

Speaker 1 Mystery Runner's History. Oh, that's a snappy title.
Yeah. Is there any way we could get these pictures from a little further back at all?

Speaker 1 We may have, we made it, that could have been us uploading them that way for sure.

Speaker 1 Okay, so basically that says the mystery runner's history, and it exposes James and it posits that he stole Jay Huntsman's identity after seeing the birth and death dates on the headstone.

Speaker 1 One of James' old friends from Wyoming is interviewed in this article and he describes James as, quote, mischievous, before adding, quote, but I thought he would have grown out of it by now.

Speaker 1 So what do you mean he's only a junior? Ouch.

Speaker 1 So before they have a chance to expel him, James drops out a pally and he's like, no, no, I'll see myself out.

Speaker 1 And in the end, authorities decide not to press charges. White.

Speaker 1 But the community he leaves behind is stunned. An article in Pally's Verde magazine, this is a high school so rich they have their own magazine.
What?

Speaker 1 And they report, quote, his teammates all liked him. They were pretty upset that he pulled their chain, that he pulled their chain when he left.
It wasn't like they hated him from then on.

Speaker 1 They were just really disappointed that he wasn't what he said he was and that they had been bamboozled.

Speaker 1 That was Karen's voice for sure. She's like, I'm a journalist from Pally's magazine, Ver Day.

Speaker 1 And we're pissed about Jay Huntsman being not real.

Speaker 1 Just to give you a sense, this is what Jay Huntsman James looked like claiming to be a 17-year-old. Please, we should have put that up earlier.
It's going to get close. It's going to be be close.

Speaker 1 I don't know what.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 Hey.

Speaker 1 Hey Darcy. Hey Darcy, do you have your homework? Can I borrow your homework?

Speaker 1 But he looks like James Spader

Speaker 1 and he does look like an 80s teenager, like movie teenager. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 He does have a little Vince Averill in him too. Oh my god, doesn't he? Totally does.
He's got an

Speaker 1 80s Vince old school style. And the shirt.
Vince would wear that shirt. Hey, do you guys want to meet in the quad for lunch?

Speaker 1 No, dad. Get away from us.

Speaker 1 I mean, they probably just thought he was a narc, right?

Speaker 1 This was years before 21 Jumpstreet.

Speaker 1 I think, though, it's like when people are super into running, you're like, yeah, I guess that's what he looks like. I don't know.

Speaker 1 Is that what it is? Just a running son, I guess. He fucking looks like my husband.
Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 We'll have to do a side-by-side.

Speaker 1 Okay, so a few weeks after he exits himself from Pally,

Speaker 1 he gets caught writing a bad check while buying contact lenses.

Speaker 1 So he pleads with the shop owner and says, I promise that I'll come and pay you back.

Speaker 1 Just please don't have me arrested. Shop owner's like, you're a good kid from the track team.

Speaker 1 And James skips town and never pays that shop owner back. Man.
But we're going to make a donation tonight.

Speaker 1 So, months later, he resurfaces in Vale, Colorado, with a whole new song and dance.

Speaker 1 This time, he gets himself a seasonal job at a cross-training camp, the kind where rich people pay to train alongside champion athletes. But this scam is not what you think it is.

Speaker 1 This time, James has sold himself as Dr. James Hoag

Speaker 1 with a PhD in bioengineering

Speaker 1 out of, you guessed it, Stanford Stanford University. That's right.

Speaker 1 No one notices until 1987, a couple years later, when an old acquaintance of his from back in Austin learns that James is employed at this camp as a doctor and reports him. Fuck that guy.
You know?

Speaker 1 Like, how do you know while you were in Austin he didn't get a fucking doctorate? I mean, like, and what is it to you?

Speaker 1 Snitches. I think snitches get stitches for sure, but don't you think James like stole something of his? And it's just just like, there's that fucking guy that took that really good stereo I loved.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Or something.
Or he's a doctor. What's that thing when they pretend? Stolen Valor.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 That's the one. It's stolen Doctor Valor.
Okay.

Speaker 1 According to the camp owner, when James is confronted about this, the camp owner says, quote, he didn't say much. He didn't say too much.
I don't think he ever admitted he wasn't who he said he was.

Speaker 1 He never apologized. It was like, hey, I got busted.
I'll go somewhere else and scam them.

Speaker 1 End quote. You've got to interview people like this at your newspaper.
If you have the power to do this,

Speaker 1 that's a good quote.

Speaker 1 Because that's just what James does. Within months, he's drifted to San Diego.
And in October of that year, he burglarizes

Speaker 1 the bike shop his roommate owns. So he shows up in town, gets a roommate.
Nice to meet you. Cool.
We like to see movies. Whatever.

Speaker 1 will you share your like frozen dinners with me yeah best friends and he goes and burglarizes his bike shop

Speaker 1 and he steals about 20 grand in tools and bike parts which is in today's money worth what is it 80 it's 87 87 in today's money 20 is 249 it's 56 000 damn it i told

Speaker 1 And then he skips town

Speaker 1 and he goes to the southwestern Utah city of St. George and he starts working there as a bike mechanic with all of his roommates' stolen equipment.

Speaker 1 But within a year of setting up shop there, another cyclist notices that some of James's tools have a different guy's name engraved on them.

Speaker 1 So once again, it's not Schwinn or whatever.

Speaker 1 Hey, you didn't say your name was Schwinn.

Speaker 1 So he gets narked on as well. Okay.

Speaker 1 And when officers search James's home, they find a lot of stolen property, as well as evidence that he's been applying to Ivy League schools again, this time under the name Alexis Santana.

Speaker 1 So now we're back at the beginning. Like, how did he get that name? He picked it out of a like birth month favorite band.
Band. Yes.
Merriman,

Speaker 1 nanner, nanner. Yeah.
Whatever.

Speaker 1 I wanted that to sound like smooth, but it didn't.

Speaker 1 We can't clear it anyway. Alexi Santana.

Speaker 1 That's the name you come up with when you are stoned.

Speaker 1 So the good news is Alexi has been accepted to both Princeton and Brown. Wow.
But he's decided to go to Princeton. He actually got in.
Jesus. So these plans are put on hold.

Speaker 1 Remember back at the beginning because his very deathly ill mother was sick, and so Alexi had to defer for a year. I remember that.

Speaker 1 This was when James was arrested and convicted on possession of stolen property charges and sentenced to five years in prison. Oh, my sick mom.
Yep.

Speaker 1 My sick mom in prison.

Speaker 1 Here's the good news. He's paroled after 10 months.
Of course.

Speaker 1 So you'd think a prison sentence would derail the whole Ivy League fantasy league plan, but Alexi Santana has his explanation ready to go, so it's all fine.

Speaker 1 Princeton buys it and allows James to quietly complete his prison sentence. They don't realize they're doing that.

Speaker 1 So then, in the fall of 1989, 29-year-old James arrives in New Jersey campus as freshman Alexei Santana, ready for the 89-90 school year,

Speaker 1 but traveling across state lines as a violation of his parole. And this violation triggers a warrant for his arrest.
Unfortunately, Utah authorities have no idea how to find him.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 on Princeton's campus, freshman Alexi Santana, he's shy he's a little awkward but there's something about him oh god we would totally have dated this fucking absolutely be like I don't know he's just so old looking

Speaker 1 he's so mysterious and old looking and old looking

Speaker 1 So his classmates mostly like him. They just kind of can't follow his life story.

Speaker 1 The New York Times reports that Alexi, quote, seemed so unflappable that hardly any of his classmates asked about about his apparent discrepancies in the stories he told about himself.

Speaker 1 He told some students that he was an orphan, others that his mother was dying.

Speaker 1 End quote. But hey, let's not get bogged down in details.

Speaker 1 What's important here is that Alexi maintains a loaded class schedule, gets great grades, and gets invited to join some of the most exclusive university clubs because he's a man.

Speaker 1 But most importantly,

Speaker 1 it was like Bob Dylan is here to boo Alexi Santana. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Most importantly, Alexi has quickly become

Speaker 1 one of the most talked about athletes on the Princeton track team. He's back, baby.

Speaker 1 So in February of 1991, Alexi participates in the Harvard-Yale-Princeton track meet in New Haven, Connecticut. What kind of snacks are at that? I mean,

Speaker 1 little finger sandwiches with no crusts.

Speaker 1 Finally, all of his track-based reality-denying underage dreams are coming true, I wrote. But there's a snag.
A runner from one of the other schools is a polygraduate, and they recognize Alexi!

Speaker 1 Alexi! Why aren't you talking to me, Alexi?

Speaker 1 Oh, his name wasn't Alexi at that other school.

Speaker 1 They recognize this new Alexi Santana as the old

Speaker 1 Jay, whatever his name was, that's really James Hoag. And she immediately calls reporter Jason Cole, who reaches out to Princeton.
The old guy from the back of the house.

Speaker 1 That's right, the old journalist. It's like, I don't know about that beard that you have.

Speaker 1 He breaks the news, the weird news, to Princeton, Princeton. So in the middle of class, the cops walk into his lecture hall and

Speaker 1 dramatically arrest James and take him away in handcuffs.

Speaker 1 You're not young.

Speaker 1 Someone's running for re-election that year.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 You go make an example of that super weird old guy.

Speaker 1 He's charged with violating parole, forgery, wrongful impersonation, and falsifying records. And he is able to post bail incredibly.
He's sold some of his stolen stuff.

Speaker 1 While awaiting trial, he is allowed to relocate to Cambridge, Massachusetts,

Speaker 1 where he starts taking classes at Harvard Extension.

Speaker 1 He won't stop. It's funny how hard I tried to get away from college.
And this fucking guy

Speaker 1 can't stay away. He's like, assign me something long and difficult.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 At one point, he's hired to catalog precious minerals and gems for the college. And these people are supposed to be fucking smart.

Speaker 1 While he's working there, about 50 grand worth of gems go missing from Harvard, worth around.

Speaker 1 50 grand you said that button 930

Speaker 1 120,000

Speaker 1 you go too high and you're stupid you go too low and you're fucking right this is it's a it's a humbling practice

Speaker 1 this podcast this pod this whole situation and life

Speaker 1 They're also an expensive microscope and a chair with the Harvard seal imprinted on it go missing. Oh, yeah.
Can I just sell this at a pawn shop? No, dude.

Speaker 1 Actually, the police find all of these items in James's room.

Speaker 1 So he's again arrested. He's charged with even more crimes.
He's found guilty on four counts back in Princeton. So he's found guilty on those charges.

Speaker 1 Now he's found guilty for these thefts at Harvard for all these crimes. He served somewhere around two years.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 Put up the picture of big white head again.

Speaker 1 And then a couple years after getting out of prison in 1996, James is back in the news for going back to Princeton and posing as a geology student named Jim MacArthur.

Speaker 1 He's like, hold on, this time, I'm going to wear my sweater a little bit, a little bit tighter, collar up,

Speaker 1 British accent.

Speaker 1 He is arrested for trespassing, although it does seem like those charges were dropped. In 1997, the following year, he lands in Telluride, Colorado.
By now,

Speaker 1 by now he's in his late 30s working as a carpenter and a contractor courting the very ritzy clientele that lives there his passion is still running though can't get the can't get rid of that jogger in him he becomes known for always literally running around town

Speaker 1 so even though he is trying to live a lower profile life his story has actually become widely circulated at this point and he's actually kind of famous In 2001, writer David Samuels pens a deep dive on James for The New Yorker.

Speaker 1 In 2003, filmmaker Jesse Moss makes a documentary about him called Con Man. Jesse was a student at Pali while Jay Huntsman went to school there.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 James,

Speaker 1 he works in Telluride for a while, running around town. He's the contractor everybody wants to hire until he's caught after a woman accuses him of stealing her throw pillows.
That's right. What?

Speaker 1 She's like, their contractor was here to give me a bid on that crack in the floorboard. And my nasty throw pillows are gone.

Speaker 1 And now my throw pillows are gone. So she nojo goes to his house to confront him.
No, don't do that. And at the front door of his house, she looks past and the throw pillows are on his couch.

Speaker 1 Okay, that is the weirdest thing to steal. Like, what did he shove them up his shirt? I mean, and you can, here's the thing, you can do anything you want with them because they're yours now.

Speaker 1 You've stolen them. All right.
Fair and square. So, this leads to a search of his property.

Speaker 1 And per an article from the Denver Post, officers find: quote, a storage locker and a horse trailer crammed with enough fine and odd stolen items to stock a flea market.

Speaker 1 Among them, moose antlers, medical books, stuffed bears, bicycles, red silk high heels,

Speaker 1 rare wood, copper pans, power saws, and chilled champagne.

Speaker 1 All right. They would add up to nearly 7,000 items and top $100,000 in value.

Speaker 1 See, it's just like a klepto. Yeah.
Or like he likes to remember things. Oh, sentimental.
Oh, that's nice. He's an old softy, and he loves throw pillows.

Speaker 1 Again, James is arrested and sent to jail. He's released in 2012.

Speaker 1 Things are quiet for a while, but then in September of 2016, James is caught building what newspapers describe as an illegally constructed camouflaged shack on public land right on the side of a Colorado mountain.

Speaker 1 Oh, can we take a look at the shack?

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 it's real close. Oh man, that's some Unabomber shit right there.
Right?

Speaker 1 Now listen, so when the officers show up to arrest him,

Speaker 1 He bolts out a back door. There's more than one door in this shack.
What?

Speaker 1 Never forget the chemical engineer inside of James he's not a dumb man the back door of your creepy shack yeah he's like I'm let's see I'm put a door on the front we've got our side door where I can run out the next time I'm arrested

Speaker 1 He goes on the lamb for two months and he's caught again a month later trying to build another shack not far from the first shack no pink we can look at that second shack there it is

Speaker 1 he started that's less of a shack and more of a lean to Yeah. Well, the thing is, he was trying to

Speaker 1 figure out where to put the third door on this one. And then he was like, god damn it.
The cops are here. During this arrest, police find

Speaker 1 $17,000 on his person, as well as evidence proving that he'd sold around $70,000 worth of stolen goods on eBay because now he's updated his act for the digital age.

Speaker 1 James is convicted on a handful of new charges and sentenced to six years in prison.

Speaker 1 Officers working on his case will describe him as, quote, a man of brevity, only responding to the detectives' questions in a few short words.

Speaker 1 He didn't seem malicious, but he did paint himself as a victim of the government and of social hierarchy

Speaker 1 and class structures. Okay.
Perhaps.

Speaker 1 Like, you mean school class structures?

Speaker 1 His long history of deception was masked by a pale, aged, and relatively small-framed body. And more than anything, he loved to run.
That literally is the end of that quote.

Speaker 1 And can we look at that picture? This is him.

Speaker 1 Oh, man.

Speaker 1 There he is. He looks like a teenager.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 We'll talk, we'll Botox up here. Hey, Bobby.
Do you have a date to the winter formal?

Speaker 1 That's me and my crazy hair and eyebrows. And he runs, runs, runs away.
In 2019, James Hoag is paroled. As far as anyone knows, he's living somewhere in Colorado.

Speaker 1 Do you think he came to our Denver show? Shit.

Speaker 1 Shit. He impersonated a murderino.

Speaker 1 He pointed at people. You're a drag-along, whatever.

Speaker 1 He's still on the radar of police and reporters, and every so often he resurfaces in the news.

Speaker 1 The last big sighting seems to be in 2021 when Aspen police respond to a burglary at an apartment building. But James is not the burglar.

Speaker 1 Officers incidentally catch him illegally siphoning electricity with an extension cord from one building's exterior outlet into his car. Yes.

Speaker 1 I didn't know that's illegal. I would do that.
Yeah. It's just out there.
Put a fucking lock on it.

Speaker 1 As one of the many judges who've encountered James Ho puts it, quote, I've heard nothing about any mental health issues or substance issues or other explanations for his pattern of behavior other than this is a lifestyle of a career criminal from what I can tell, end quote.

Speaker 1 But his M.O. is certainly fascinating.

Speaker 1 James seems to be motivated by a unique combination of financial gain, a deep recurring desire to reinvent himself, a misguided need to stick to the man, and of course, his ultimate passion, finding the opportunity to run competitively against teenagers.

Speaker 1 To some to some James has we're so close to some James has almost become a mythical literary figure.

Speaker 1 Back at Pali, for example, teachers have paired the great Gatsby with the David Samuels New Yorker piece on James, which is hilarious and insane.

Speaker 1 And director Jesse Moss, the Pali alum who made the documentary Conman, has evoked this same comparison, saying, quote, I love that James, like Gatsby, was able to transcend his low birth to attain this high position, but he was, like Gatsby, brought low.

Speaker 1 I think that makes it an extraordinary American story, and that's the story of serial scammer and one-time Bay Area high schooler, James Hove.

Speaker 6 Great job. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Love a scammer. Love a scammer.
You always have fun with scammers. Your own scammer.
Yeah. Do we have time for a home?

Speaker 1 Come on, everybody.

Speaker 1 We have five minutes for a hundred. Oh, here's Vince.
There he is. Vince Hove.
There he is.

Speaker 1 It's James Hove, ladies and gentlemen. Hi.
How are you? How's it going? Hi. Hi, hi, hi, hi, hi.

Speaker 13 Two tremendous shows.

Speaker 1 Great job.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 13 I realize since we're in this neck of the woods, I just want to point out how much we really love It's It ice cream sandwiches at our house.

Speaker 1 In case they want to send another box over. Well, that's right.
Anyone from It's It? Hey, the It's It people.

Speaker 13 But in the meantime, I'm going going to be over under that exit sign to pick up whoever you choose.

Speaker 1 Thanks, Nance. Thank you.
Oops, thank you. And I guess we're out of hot dogs, so we have a fuck politeness koozie.
Oh, yeah, that's nice. Hey, there.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Who can earn it? Tell them about it. Okay.
This is the part where someone tells a hometown, as we learned that first night in Denver,

Speaker 1 do not come up here talking about some other city and some other state. No one wants to fucking hear that shit.

Speaker 1 It should be, It should be Bay Area. Northern California.
Northern California.

Speaker 1 Central Northern. We had a real good Reading one last night that she did great.

Speaker 1 Don't be so drunk, you can't tell your own story. It needs a beginning, a middle, and an end.

Speaker 1 And ultimately, just really be yourself. Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay, who's got a hometown? Don't point at anyone.

Speaker 1 You fucking swear to God, you're very confident. Okay, go.
Go find Vince.

Speaker 1 That was a mistake. That was a huge mistake.

Speaker 1 Look over there. My spanks are right there.
She stood up and then turned to the rest of the audience, did muscles, and squatted. We're fucked right now.
We're fucked.

Speaker 1 This is why you got to do it next time. Okay.
I hate it.

Speaker 1 I hate picking people. It's heartbreaking.

Speaker 1 Stupid. I love it.
Also, they get real mad. They get so mad.
They get really mad.

Speaker 1 Here she comes. Here she comes.

Speaker 1 She scurried. Oh, she's the scurrier.
She's the,

Speaker 1 yeah, yeah. Huh?

Speaker 1 Sydney like Australia.

Speaker 1 Sydney, like Sydney. Sydney, everybody.
Say hi to Sydney.

Speaker 1 Hi.

Speaker 1 Hey. How's it going? Hey, great.

Speaker 1 Are you a weightlifter?

Speaker 1 I am now. No, no, just because you did that pose.
When you got picked, you did that pose. I'm ready.
Oh, shit. yeah you are

Speaker 1 where are you from Sydney we flew in from Phoenix Arizona oh my god we love you guys and we're so happy you're here we're so scared for you right now Sydney I'm scared for myself

Speaker 1 yeah so okay so pretty pretty local bay area adjacent

Speaker 1 can we go Lake Tahoe yeah

Speaker 1 that's fair is that cool yeah absolutely okay I thought so this is my mom's story this is a two-part awful terrible, shitty story that happened to my mother. Oh my God.
Yes. Awful, terrible.

Speaker 1 So, first part of this story. My mother grew up in Lake Tahoe.
So she is about 17 years old, 1973,

Speaker 1 1974, Lake Tahoe. So she's walking down the street, just going to her friend's house, walking.

Speaker 1 And then... A man comes up from behind her and grabs her.

Speaker 1 Grabs her, pulls her into his vehicle. She like fights him.
She's like, hey, fuck you, you piece of shit.

Speaker 1 Gets her. She's 17.
She's a baby. I'm 29.
Teeny tiny baby. I look like I'm strong.
She was stronger than at 17. So, grabs her, pulls her into his vehicle.

Speaker 1 I don't know if it's a van, don't know if it's a car, but basically, she's fighting him off. And then gets into his vehicle, and she's like, fucking you piece of shit.

Speaker 1 Throws her in, slams the door, and she's like, all right, I'm gonna get out. She reaches for a door handle, and there's no door handle.

Speaker 1 And she's like, he has done this before.

Speaker 1 And she's like, cool, so now this is like my life.

Speaker 1 And so this piece of shit takes her back to his house and is like, okay, you're gonna like be here. And so he like beats her and like sexually assaults her multiple times over multiple days.

Speaker 1 Awful, terrible. But my mother, she's very smart.
And she's like, hey, I'm like a human.

Speaker 1 I'm a human, which like kind of doesn't relate to some serial offenders. Some of them it does.
And she's like, I would love to be your girlfriend.

Speaker 1 I'm really, I'm really into you. You're really cool.
And so he's like, cool, awesome. So he like

Speaker 1 beats her, sexually assaults her over multiple days. And she's like, I would love to see you after this, because I'm really into you.
And like, breaks her ribs, breaks her cheekbone piece of shit.

Speaker 1 Awful, terrible. It ends up with a good story, kind of.

Speaker 1 Take my word.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and so then she's like, Yeah, I just like need to like get back to work.

Speaker 1 I need to work, I have a normal life, I have a normal job.

Speaker 1 And he's like, Cool, so you'll like see me after this, right? And she's like, Yeah, I would love to see you. So he lets her go.
She's like,

Speaker 1 I'm fucking out.

Speaker 1 I'm out. Get me the fuck out of here.
So she dips and she's like, fuck you, you piece of shit. Tells the police, please never catch him.
And I'm like an armchair, like sleuth.

Speaker 1 I've like tried to pin 1970s, like California crimes to someone.

Speaker 1 She's into true crime, which is why I got into you guys. She very much baptized me by fire, which is why I'm here.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and so never fucking found the guy. Awful terrible but

Speaker 1 second part of the story happens in LA. I'm sorry not as local mingo boo Los Angeles California

Speaker 1 California not northern sorry LA boo.

Speaker 1 So my mom a few years later after living through this she is like walking down the street she's going to go buy cake mix for her friend to go bake a birthday cake for her friend.

Speaker 1 She's walking down the street and she we from we're from Phoenix and she's like okay first time we ever experienced a haboob, she's like, it was like this level of visibility, fog, can't see fucking shit.

Speaker 1 Nothing. And she's walking down the sidewalk and she's going, she's 17, she's like, cool, we're going, gonna make a birthday cake.

Speaker 1 And then she's walking by this ravine and this guy again comes up from behind her, snatches her, pulls her down into this ravine, and she's like, fuck you, you piece piece of shit.

Speaker 1 This is not fucking happening again.

Speaker 1 This is not gonna happen again. And she fucking fights him, and he's like, trying to pull her down, trying to like sexually fucking assault her again.
We're a beautiful fucking family.

Speaker 1 And she's like, No, fuck you. And so she fucking fights this guy off and is like, hate you, awful, terrible human.

Speaker 1 And so she's like, fuck you, gets away from this guy, goes to the police, and is like, hey,

Speaker 1 again,

Speaker 1 some other piece of shit, probably straight cis man, tried to fucking sexually assault me.

Speaker 1 Awful. They fucking find the guy, they catch him, and he is like a serial, violent, sexual fucking

Speaker 1 predator. Predator, thank you.

Speaker 1 That's the word. Sexual fucking, like, serial.
And now he, because of my mother, he is in prison the rest of his life.

Speaker 1 And I sit

Speaker 1 here.

Speaker 1 I'm here so, so, so, so long because of like the strength of my mother.

Speaker 1 Great job. It's not going to happen again.
That's right. That's right.
And this has been my great job in my life. Sydney, everybody, looks here for singing.
Great job.

Speaker 1 Look at you guys.

Speaker 1 Thank you, thank you. Thank you.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 Yes, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 Wow, amazing.

Speaker 1 Well, Oakland, night two. You guys.
We've done it. Did it? We've really done it.

Speaker 1 Thank you for supporting us on this little tour that we're doing six years later after we were like,

Speaker 1 we've been made, thank you, we've been waiting to do this for so long and it's been so scary, but everyone's been showing up and really, really loud

Speaker 1 and supportive. And you're a community that we love love and appreciate so much.
So thank you guys for coming. We love you.
Stay sexy. And talk!

Speaker 1 Thank you, Oakland. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Molly Smith, and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.
Our editor is Aristotle Aristotle Acevedo.

Speaker 1 This episode was mixed by Liana Squalacci. Our researchers are Mira McLashin and Allie Elkin.
Email your hometowns to myfavorite murder at gmail.com.

Speaker 1 And follow the show on Instagram at myfavorite murder. Listen to MyFavorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Or you can watch us on YouTube.

Speaker 1 Search for MyFavorite Murder, then like and subscribe. Goodbye.

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Speaker 1 Janice Torres here.

Speaker 4 And I'm Austin Hankwitz. We host the podcast, Mind the Business: Small Business Success Stories, produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.

Speaker 1 We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners.

Speaker 4 The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever-evolving, ever-changing. Everyone's a rookie.
That's how fast the industry is changing.

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