Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 53: Live at The Orpheum

Transcript

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Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. Every Wednesday, we recap our old podcasts with all new commentary, updates, and insights.

Speaker 1 And today we're recapping the epic episode 53, which we named pretty spot on, right on the nose, live at the Orpheum.

Speaker 1 It is kind of crazy that this episode is coming out mere days after we announce our tour. The plan we made eight years ago is finally coming together.
It's coming to fruition. We are geniuses.

Speaker 1 This episode came out on January 26, 2017. Let's listen to the intro, everyone, of episode 53.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Come on.

Speaker 1 Play.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Hugo.

Speaker 1 It's a little bit too loud.

Speaker 1 You got it. What did you say? It's a little too loud.
It was a little bit too loud.

Speaker 1 This is bananas.

Speaker 1 I'm so glad you guys didn't go to the marches and came here instead. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Hey,

Speaker 1 it's pretty cool that we decided to do our live, first huge live LA show the same day that the revolution started. Am I right?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Hi.

Speaker 1 It started.

Speaker 1 One, one, like one dad is like, wait, where the fuck is that? Yeah, get, wake up, dad.

Speaker 1 It started.

Speaker 1 Fucking see you.

Speaker 1 Madonna said fuck on CNN. It started.

Speaker 1 You know, that's been the cue that we've all been waiting for this whole time.

Speaker 1 Man.

Speaker 1 That's my Madonna. That's the Madonna I remember.
Oh, that's Karen, and that's Georgia.

Speaker 1 Hi.

Speaker 1 And we're my favorite murderer.

Speaker 1 Stupid. That's stupid.
Let's never do that again. We never introduce ourselves.
I know. We never say we're my favorite murderer.
That's super lame.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'm going to fall. Like, there's a weird...

Speaker 1 Let's go ahead and just take five minutes to make this our own situation. So thank you guys so much.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. All right, here we go.
Let's do it.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I guess. Tell me.

Speaker 1 I guess of all the signs I saw today,

Speaker 1 the one I saw that I love the best was the one with a picture of Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Speaker 1 Did you see that one?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 Where it was like,

Speaker 1 all you fives better listen when a 10 is talking.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh my God.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 1 Fuck, dude. There's a new rating system and I couldn't be happier.

Speaker 1 Holy shit. There were a lot of good signs today.
I think one of being like a guy was holding up a sign that was just like, I have nothing to say because I'm sick of hearing men talk.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 come on.

Speaker 1 So many tweets and responses.

Speaker 1 Call and response, but so many things.

Speaker 1 How you feeling, Karen? I don't. Let's get deep.
Okay, look, here's the truth. This is the dress I wore to the New York Live Show.
Some of you may recognize it. I didn't know.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I have to tell on myself. I pay attention to myself.

Speaker 1 I actually might have worn this something, and I just don't remember. Well, why don't you stand up and let's take a look at it? No.

Speaker 1 Do a walk. Let's both do a walk.
No, it's fun. No.
Just walk it out. No.
Okay, I will, because look.

Speaker 1 Look.

Speaker 1 okay the only reason I'm doing this is because if my sister saw the shoes I was wearing with this dress she would be so livid at me she's always like take the time buy a $250 shoe you deserve it is wrong with it that's that's like onesie twosies pet each other one two three four date do do my sister's actually

Speaker 1 Better fives better listen when these tens are talking.

Speaker 1 And by that I mean the size of my shoe. That's right.

Speaker 1 I bought a size too big at Target because they didn't have nines. I mean, sometimes you just gotta...
My feet are broken because when I was younger, I was like, size six looks cuter than size seven.

Speaker 1 My actual real-life sister is here.

Speaker 1 No, don't know. Fuck her.
Let's get a spotlight on.

Speaker 1 Barbie get my head. That's right.
Lee, you motherfucker. No,

Speaker 1 Hey.

Speaker 1 She made you who you are today.

Speaker 1 She did. A broken human.

Speaker 1 Lee, I love you. You're the best.
Here we go.

Speaker 1 You have the best kid I've ever met in my life.

Speaker 1 Well, I do have a present for you. Oh, my God, why?

Speaker 1 You can't keep sneaking presents at me. I certainly can.
This one is the best because the last episode we talked about, I talked about going to see Golden Girls Live, which is the best show ever.

Speaker 1 Yes. That's right.
Let's cheer for everything.

Speaker 1 Casita, Stel Campo, Drew Joji, Jackie Beach, Sherry Vine, Sam Panka. Del Campo, everyone after the party, after party, go there.
Yeah, it'll be the after, after party. They're closed.

Speaker 1 We'll stand around on the parking lot.

Speaker 1 But...

Speaker 1 So I told Georgia that at the end of the last podcast, then she told me about the mug they make.

Speaker 1 And it is a mug that has the cast of the Golden Girls live on it. So it's all those guys dressed up like their characters and the Golden Girls.

Speaker 1 And on the other side of the mug, one side is that picture. And the other side, it says, thank you for being a cunt.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you did not.

Speaker 1 Well, here's the thing.

Speaker 1 So Georgia was like, she told me about that mug, but I had already bought her the mug at that live show, but then had second thoughts because I was like, wait, is she going to think I'm passively, aggressively calling her a cunt?

Speaker 1 Like, oh, here, thanks for being a cunt. No, I don't think that deeply.
I'm good. Okay, good, then here.
Thanks for being a cunt.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. What if I just went

Speaker 1 and smashed it? Oh, fucking cunt. It's anarchy tonight, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 1 I am a cunt and I'm proud of it. Yeah, me too.
It's fun. Oh, how do you feel about people who bring their babies to protests? I don't give a shit about anything.
The world is about to blow up.

Speaker 1 You can fucking bring a dead body to a protest. Just show up.

Speaker 1 Show up. Love it.
Love it. Sorry, that was a strong reaction.

Speaker 1 I haven't had any protein in a couple hours.

Speaker 1 I'm about to go off. I'm doing this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, girl. It might have dust in it.

Speaker 1 No, because I actually, in thinking I shouldn't give it to you, I ran it through the washing machine. I mean, the dishwasher.
The dishwasher. Oh, God.

Speaker 1 Really? That's so thoughtful. Oh, because you were going to keep it.
I was going to keep it. I was going to keep it.

Speaker 1 Great.

Speaker 1 Thank you. I was going to keep it, and then imagine my chills when you were like, they have this mug? And I was like, what?

Speaker 1 A fake what?

Speaker 1 Oh, that sounds so weird.

Speaker 1 Well, thank you. That's so kind of you.
You're welcome. We were going to, Karen was like, let's bring signs out.
And I was like, what kind of signs?

Speaker 1 And then, like, we have this giant Elvis head that we were given at the Chicago thing.

Speaker 1 Jay Braves, what's up?

Speaker 1 And I thought we should say. You be quiet.

Speaker 1 I thought, I think I was like, well, what if we write,

Speaker 1 keep your hands off my cookies?

Speaker 1 Because that would be funny. But I didn't do it.

Speaker 1 Because I needed a nap. That's right.
Yeah. You know, some people are dedicated and they craft and they glue and glitter.
And then some people gotta sleep.

Speaker 1 Some people tell a friend who's having a meetup before they go to the protest.

Speaker 1 Some people tell them that they're gonna show up and they can't go to the protest because of anxiety, but they'll drive everyone to the train station. And then some people can't wake up before 7.30

Speaker 1 and then don't do that and then just promise they'll take them to lunch next week.

Speaker 1 How many people were involved in this?

Speaker 1 Because there's, were you all of them in that one? Uh-huh. Okay.
So I'm going to lunch alone next week. It's going to be weird.

Speaker 1 Should we start? Sure. It feels like we should.
Don't you feel like listening to a couple.

Speaker 1 Don't you feel like listening to a couple stories?

Speaker 1 Thank all of you for being a friend. Right.

Speaker 1 That's for sure.

Speaker 1 Who's

Speaker 1 travel down the road and back again? No, who's next? Who's first? Oh, oh.

Speaker 1 Is it me? Okay, thank you. Here we go.
Hell, I gotta chill the fuck out.

Speaker 1 And we're back. Oh, man.

Speaker 1 I wish I could explain the like sweaty, excited, sunburnt from the March crowd that was there that day. Oh, yeah.
They were already pumped up from the March. Such good energy.

Speaker 1 Such good energy. Everyone was dehydrated, so everyone got drunk faster.
It's like people marched down into the streets of downtown and then into the Orpheum theater. That was the energy we got.

Speaker 1 That's so good. What's interesting is I have no memory of what dress I wore that night, although I'm thinking it was when I was on Talk Show the Game Show.
Oh, that's exactly it.

Speaker 1 I think you borrowed it from the incredible fashion person on the set of that show. From Okira? Yeah.
Okira Banks, who's my stylist, Talk Show the Game Show's wardrobe person.

Speaker 1 I didn't wear dresses, though.

Speaker 1 oh on the show like i think yeah i don't know it was probably like a black dress with pockets yeah does the vintage one you have have pockets that beautiful little like shift i don't remember because i'm picturing it but i'm really just picturing a black dress so it could be anything i mean here's the thing i really repeated a lot they were like ll bean dresses that were like hey lady that mostly likes to garden but sometimes is forced to go to a dinner party or a funeral or a funeral

Speaker 1 you can get a a nice colored scarf and put it on this black dress with pockets it's like kind of body con is that what they call it but it's not too crazy well it like it went in at the waist so it gives you a waist it gives you the like curves you want some nice darts in the front and beautiful pockets we need more of those we need more bean ladies ladies and gentlemen we need our own pockets

Speaker 1 yeah that show was absolutely incredible my sister was there i think she was in the house i was so nervous because it's our hometown show which feels so different and ever since this show, I have been nervous to do a show, like whenever we do shows in LA.

Speaker 1 Yeah. There's something about it that's harder than New York.
It's harder than like, you know, Chicago or Texas. It's like,

Speaker 1 it's our people. Yeah.
And it's also show business people who, you know, comics learn this very quickly when they come and do sets in LA. No one laughs because everyone's in the business.

Speaker 1 So you don't want to seem like an audience member. Right.
And that's the disease of Los Angeles. Like everyone's too cool for school.

Speaker 1 Therefore, you're like, oh no, we're we're gonna be facing down you know a bunch of blase blase people as we're trying to get up there like oh yeah everybody do you like but of course our audience isn't like that

Speaker 1 and all we had to do was be like how about that women's march ladies and gentlemen and then we were off to the races so let's hop into the la stories this is karen's story about the la ripper

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Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I decided because we're downtown and it's such a rich and storied past that this city has and we're in it, we're sitting in it right now, that I would do an old

Speaker 1 downtown old-timey murder.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 right? Why not?

Speaker 1 So I decided to do the murder of the LA Ripper. Ever heard of that guy? No.

Speaker 1 They're all his grandchildren.

Speaker 1 They're like, how dare you speak of my grandpappy that way? Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah, tell me everything. Okay.
This was a guy named Otto Wilson. He was born in Shelbyville, Indiana.

Speaker 1 Graduated from high school in 1930. He moved to Indianapolis.
He served in the Navy in 1941.

Speaker 1 And then he was given a medical discharge after his wife complained to the San Diego naval authorities about his unnatural impulses. Oh, that's all it takes be like, he wants to touch my butt.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Don't touch your butt. Well, it turns out that before she left him, ultimately, and I guess after she made that complaint,

Speaker 1 he had cut her butt with a razor. There is a quote in this article.

Speaker 1 I stole, I just, it was straight up like cut and paste plagiarism from two things that I then forgot to take, the actual names of the people who wrote these articles. And that's my favorite merit.

Speaker 1 So some there's some very flowery language that is not my own i'll i'll find it and say it later with an apology and it'll be boring uh

Speaker 1 but this was one of the sentences that i love that i cut and paste on to here in the orphanage in the navy in his last months of drifting women had always subtly domineered over him

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, but like fucking let it happen, bro.

Speaker 1 What's the problem with that? Get into Domp being domineered over. We know our shit.
Chill the fuck out. You know what I mean? It's kind of hot to be domineered over sometimes.

Speaker 1 Tom, he probably sucked at fucking. She was in the ship.
I was like, can you touch me in my normal area? And he was like, dump.

Speaker 1 Nope. Undo the razor.
Turn around.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Fuck you, man.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 it all kind of

Speaker 1 he was on a bender. His wife left him.
Things were bad for several years.

Speaker 1 He on November 15th, 1944,

Speaker 1 he had been on a two-day bender at that point.

Speaker 1 And at some point in that time, he had bought himself a butcher knife. Fun.

Speaker 1 So, what did he just go into like Macy's or something? Kind of drunk. You know how you do with hot dogs at pinks, but with a butcher knife?

Speaker 1 You don't even need a license anymore to get a butcher knife. That's right.
You just fucking get them willy-nilly. You can fucking register for one at a wedding.

Speaker 1 I mean, yeah, we've both done that. That's right.

Speaker 1 So he was at a bar and he met a woman named Virginia Lee Griffin. It was on Main Street.
Yes, dangerously close to where we are now, but quite a long time ago.

Speaker 1 She told him her name was Virgie, and she's described as a big young woman with lipstick smeared too heavily on her lips. Fucking asshole.
I mean, sounds familiar though. I'm into it.
Hey, hi.

Speaker 1 She was married, but her husband was away, and she liked a good time. Who doesn't?

Speaker 1 So they drank together, and then they decided to go somewhere more private. And he very gallantly held her arm as they crossed the street in the rain.

Speaker 1 Like this. It's not like sweetly.
All nails. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He has really weirdly long nails.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 What if it's the guy from the Guinness Book of World Records with the longest nails ever? And he's like, do you want to to go somewhere more private?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 I don't know what we're talking about anymore. There we go.
So they went to the old Barclay Hotel, which at that time I think was relatively new.

Speaker 1 It wasn't called that.

Speaker 1 I hate to shit on someone else's writing that I'm stealing, but I think it was pretty new back then.

Speaker 1 So apparently they say that she was overheard as saying when she walked in, and and this is the way it's written, so I'm gonna do a little voice for it. Please, if you don't mind.

Speaker 1 Here's the quote:

Speaker 1 Don't clap her, then I won't want to do it. Haven't you, don't you know me yet?

Speaker 1 So she looked up unsteadily as they walked into the hotel and she said, I got my horoscope told. Wednesday's my lucky day.
Oh, honey, Virginia.

Speaker 1 And that's

Speaker 1 how you know that astrology isn't real.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 if this doesn't prove it, I don't know what else you need.

Speaker 1 So they registered as Mr. and Mrs.
O.S. Wilson of Steubenville, Indiana.

Speaker 1 And after they'd been in the room, they had a couple drinks from a bottle of whiskey he brought.

Speaker 1 She demanded more money from him. So the funny part at that point is that they hadn't really mentioned that she had gotten money before that.
So she was a sex worker.

Speaker 1 Or a married lady that that liked to have fun. Maybe that's the way they said it back then.
Fair enough, dude. I mean, whatever.

Speaker 1 Get yours. So, what he said to the cops was: somehow I got sore.
I socked her and then I cut her.

Speaker 1 I was going to dismember her body and get rid of it, but I found that I couldn't do it, so I left. Oh, what a gentleman.

Speaker 1 What a fucking asshole.

Speaker 1 I got sore, I socked her.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 that's how you know it's not from now. So he killed her.
LOL.

Speaker 1 So he punched her in the face so hard that he killed her, right? No, what? No, you what? Go.

Speaker 1 No, I wasn't listening.

Speaker 1 No, he was mad that she was like basically being kind of greedy and like, nah, you know.

Speaker 1 And he, what he would do was strangle them and then they would like pass out and then he would cut them and kill them.

Speaker 1 I get that. So when he left the hotel room, he gave the maid a dollar and he told her not to disturb his wife.

Speaker 1 And then later on, of course, they found the body and it was sprawled on the bed and she had been slashed, her body had been slashed open from her throat to her vagina

Speaker 1 and her entrails were pulled out.

Speaker 1 It gets worse if you want to try to really orchestrate the reactions and kind of tighten it up and get it all together. There's no orchestra.

Speaker 1 Her breasts had been cut off. And an arm and a leg.

Speaker 1 They were partly severed. And the murder weapon, a razor-sharp carving knife, lay near the body.
Fuck.

Speaker 1 Man, that guy was like halfway through and he's like, I can't fucking do it. He's like, I can't do it anymore.
I fucking do it. I'm tired.
I'm tired.

Speaker 1 How many times have we said, leave the eyes and the boobies alone? They won't listen. So

Speaker 1 he leaves the hotel after

Speaker 1 that fucking carnage and he goes to the Million Dollar Theater to see Boris Karloff in The Walking Dead.

Speaker 1 I don't know. It's just fun to make some references.

Speaker 1 I don't know why I'm pointing at everyone. Yeah, just, you know, you, you love that movie and place and thing.
Fucking sickos.

Speaker 1 So when the movie was done, he went to another bar

Speaker 1 and he went and met a woman named Lillian Johnson. Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 And he took her to the Joyce Hotel where they registered as Mr. and Mrs.
O.S. Watson.
Same night. Stop it.
Same day.

Speaker 1 So he realized

Speaker 1 he, it was the same situation where he gets into the room and then he told the cops, like,

Speaker 1 I don't know, I just got mad. I just got mad and I hit her.

Speaker 1 And, but of course, she was found in the exact same condition that Virgie was found in.

Speaker 1 But apparently, while

Speaker 1 he beat her up, and then he realized that he had left his knife at the other hotel.

Speaker 1 So he

Speaker 1 shaved.

Speaker 1 And then,

Speaker 1 and she was like

Speaker 1 unconscious on the floor, he shaves, and then he takes the straight razor that he just used to shave and kills her and starts to cut her up.

Speaker 1 Then on the way out of this hotel, he stops by the desk clerk and says, My wife is sleeping. Please don't disturb her.

Speaker 1 Code for, I just murdered my, this chick I just said.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So witnesses from both hotels gave the cops similar descriptions. They took that information.
They created a dragnet all around where we are right now.

Speaker 1 And one cop is in a bar, and he sees a man matching Otto's description in a booth in deep conversation with a brunette in a tight red dress. Oh, honey.
So

Speaker 1 he was going to do it again.

Speaker 1 He had lit his cigarette with a matchbook, and the matchbook said the Barclay Hotel.

Speaker 1 And his hands had blood on them. And the cop was like, excuse me, I'd love to speak with you for a second.

Speaker 1 Give Give it a week. Like, chill the fuck.
He can't.

Speaker 1 He simply has no chill.

Speaker 1 So they bring him in. He immediately confesses to both killings.
He admits his compulsion toward bloodlust.

Speaker 1 And he told the police that his...

Speaker 1 His first wife left him because it would creep up on her when she was naked and slashed her buttocks with a razor. What the fucking fuck? I mean,

Speaker 1 that's not

Speaker 1 Like one time you're like, goodbye. Like, what the fuck? He told the cops that his favorite pastime was kissing and licking the blood away while he apologized for his odd behavior.

Speaker 1 There's so many other pastimes. Like, there's sailboarding and...
Yeah. You know how great naps are? Yeah, naps, raccoons.

Speaker 1 Anything.

Speaker 1 Look up like raccoons in the encyclopedia. Raccoons are like amazing.
They wash their own food with their little hands. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 YouTube videos of ravens talking.

Speaker 1 They can talk. They talk better than parrots.
Yes. It's crazy.
And no one talks about it. No one knows.

Speaker 1 Everyone here is like, $189. And it's true.
It is so true. Anyhow, look, I'm going to wrap it up by saying that

Speaker 1 Dr. Victor Parkin, the defense psychiatrist and a member of the Los Angeles Lunacy Commission.
Wow, that's a thing.

Speaker 1 That's going to be a thing again.

Speaker 1 We got to bring it back, you guys. That's the next March.

Speaker 1 This man testified that

Speaker 1 Otto was in a semi-automatic state, and he had no feeling. Semi-automatic

Speaker 1 way up top on that one.

Speaker 1 So fast.

Speaker 1 No. So fast at the bottom.

Speaker 1 He was in a dreamlike state. He didn't realize he was butchering a fellow human.
I disagree. Poor baby.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 basically, they said he was crazy. And so then Otto Steve Wilson.

Speaker 1 I didn't notice that before.

Speaker 1 Otto Steve Wilson was executed in the gas chamber of San Quentin in prison in September of 1949. So it says right here, but his son, Otto Steve Ray Morris Jr.
Oh my god, he's still alive today.

Speaker 1 Fuck. I noticed that Stephen would often scrape up against my butt with sharp things.

Speaker 1 Enough of that.

Speaker 1 Okay, that was awesome. Thanks.
I appreciate it. Guys, I didn't write it.
I just read it and interpreted it. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're back, Karen. I know it's an old story, so do you have any updates?

Speaker 1 None.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 So let's get into Georgia's story.

Speaker 1 We just turned around. I mean, it was so old.
Yeah. You know, it's a nightmare kind of, this is one of the OG serial killers of L.A.

Speaker 1 And when you are a person that follows True Climb, you're like, oh, I know what you mean by that because it's 44 in this year.

Speaker 1 But then it's like, we're about to go on to some horrifying serial killing in the Southland. Hey, everyone.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then let's go to the Pacific Northwest. Yeah.
We're there, the serial killers' children, everything, the serial killers themselves. It's just, yeah.

Speaker 1 Although, you know, George's story goes even earlier than that. So should we get into that? Yeah, let's do it.
This is George's story about the Greystone Mansion and the Doheny March.

Speaker 1 Every family has so many amazing stories that no one has ever heard before. That's why Story Worth memoirs are perfect for your loved ones this holiday season.

Speaker 1 It might sound a little intimidating, but it's so easy. They'll love it.
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Goodbye. Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Okay, mine is also vintage

Speaker 1 because there's a lot of sad crimes today, but not a lot of cool ones, man. Yeah.
Just like a bunch of shitty shit. All right.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 excuse me. That wasn't real.
Okay. Do you want some Daika? No, thank you.

Speaker 1 Greystone Mansion.

Speaker 1 Am I wrong? Also known as the Doheny, Doheny murders.

Speaker 1 Am I wrong? People. I'm not wrong.
You just said Doheny Mansion. Am I wrong?

Speaker 1 Never. Because three people were like, yes.
Yes. And I was asking them, am I wrong? No, you're never wrong.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 the Greystone Mansion is a 55-room mansion in Beverly Hills. It's built in 1928.
At the time, it cost over $4 million to build and was the most expensive home in California. Whoa.

Speaker 1 And it was also known as the Doheny Mansion because it was a gift from the oil tycoon Edward Doheny to his fucking kind of shitty son, Ned. What's that? Why are you attacking Ned? Ned, all right.

Speaker 1 Ned might not be shitty, but you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 If he's a Doheny, let's not be rude to Ned. He'll end us.
Ned is a.

Speaker 1 Here we go. Oh.

Speaker 1 Oh, this is about Ned? Yeah. Oh, shit.
I spoke too soon. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. You don't know.
So, Edward Doheny,

Speaker 1 the older dude, comes from a poor Irish immigrant background. Do not point at me.
I was like,

Speaker 1 remember that?

Speaker 1 It was only two generations ago. You did that.
I did it.

Speaker 1 Okay, so

Speaker 1 in Edwards late, like in the late 30s, which gives me hope with my life, he becomes,

Speaker 1 he was super poor, and then he becomes a California oil tycoon. He drills.
You can do it. I could fucking do that.

Speaker 1 There's oil everywhere. You can find it.
Get in there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So he,

Speaker 1 you know on like La Siena, go when you're on your way to the airport and there are those like old dinosaurs, like oil things. Like Like he's the guy who fucking found those.

Speaker 1 Oh, the LE Confidential ones? Yes, yes, yes. And like the tar pits, like that's all that's all him, dude.
He made tar pits. He fucking made the tarpaulin.
He sunk those dinosaur bones in there? Huh?

Speaker 1 So he becomes the first successful oil well guy. And like

Speaker 1 there will be blood is like, this basically him. Okay.

Speaker 1 And he makes a fucking fortune. And then he eventually owns one of the largest oil companies in the world.
And this is the 1920s where everything was cool.

Speaker 1 So his son, Ned, is living off the money and like, you know, pretending to be a businessman. And then in 1913, I think he's in his late teens, early 20s, he meets a man named Hugh Plunkett.

Speaker 1 And don't fucking lie.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 at the time, Hugh is working at a gas station near the house owned by like friends. And Hugh and Ned become good friends.

Speaker 1 And Hugh starts working for the Doheny family and eventually becomes Ned's personal secretary. Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 And he travels with him on business, and they're like, fucking tight as shit. Okay.
No, I get it.

Speaker 1 Ned rolled up to the gas station one day. He's like, see that gas?

Speaker 1 My dad made that. Washed my windows.

Speaker 1 According to a family friend, their relationship was more than that of friends. And another said that they were like brothers.

Speaker 1 Brothers that made out all the time.

Speaker 1 Fair enough. So in November 1921, the two of them check into a suite in this fucking place, and then Ned takes out $100,000, which is about $10 million in today's money, which I fucking love hearing.

Speaker 1 Oh, everyone gasped.

Speaker 1 People love money. 10 million.
Like, that's like,

Speaker 1 we could like

Speaker 1 we could like retire for five years off of that.

Speaker 1 Okay, so Ned takes it out of his bank account, and then he and Hugh go to DC. They meet with this dude dude who's the secretary of the interior for the Harding Administration.
His name is Albert Fall.

Speaker 1 And then he, and okay, so this dude Albert Fall is a friend of the older dude Doheny and they hand him the money and in return Fall gives them a promissory note and then

Speaker 1 I slept through history

Speaker 1 literally and fucking was on drugs. Okay, so basically there's some kind of an oily business deal going down.
You guys remember the words teapot dome scandal?

Speaker 1 This is it. I don't fucking know.

Speaker 1 Okay, something happens that like Fall gives Doheny a bunch of shit and a bunch of oil stuff in chain in exchange for the hundred bucks, so it's like super shady and shit. And then

Speaker 1 so Albert Fall is eventually charged with conspiracy to defraud the United States as part of the teapot dome scandal. That's not a problem anymore, apparently.

Speaker 1 Give everyone money and get fucked yourself.

Speaker 1 The hearing, Ned, so Ned, the son, has to testify against his pop and he says that you know he's like no we didn't do anything wrong and Ned and Hugh his fucking boyfriend

Speaker 1 they're implicated and da da da da they okay so at the end the dad gets acquitted kind of and so as Ned's loyalty he builds him the Greystone Manor. Okay.

Speaker 1 Oh shit. All right.
I forgot about that.

Speaker 1 Yes, we're back. We're back in at the Greystone Manor.
Remember that biggest house you've ever heard of in your life? Can I just tell you really quick?

Speaker 1 I went and saw a play done in the Greystone Manor. Imagine it.
Yes, where you walk around, the play is happening. You went to the Greystone Manor? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they do a thing.

Speaker 1 I think maybe it's for Christmas or something, but you walk around like you're at this party and then the actors are around you.

Speaker 1 I hate shit like that so much. I think it's so embarrassing to be that close to like an actor.
Hello, my lady. Hello, I have a vest on.
I was like, oh, don't look at me.

Speaker 1 But anyway, yeah, but the house itself was lovely. That's amazing.
No, that's fucking awesome. Okay, all right.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Then Karen Kilgar was there. Yes, finally.

Speaker 1 Okay, so Hughes starts going fucking crazy at this point because he's like, I have to, I'm just like a poor dude and I have to fucking testify against maybe my lover his pops.

Speaker 1 And blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so on February 16th, 1929, Hugh, this is the gas station dude.

Speaker 1 He lets himself into the main house because he had a key and he used to hang out in this like room, like it was his bedroom sometimes. I'm going to belch really soon.
Do it.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So Ned and Hugh, they meet in this guest bedroom and Hugh's fucking the fuck out, apparently.

Speaker 1 And then around 11 o'clock, Lucy, the wife of Ned, who's like a fucking staunch Catholic, hears a shot while she's in the living room reading magazines. And who does she call?

Speaker 1 To be like, I heard a shot. The police? No.
Nope.

Speaker 1 The doctor, the family doctor. Oh.
Who are you going to say? Batman.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 No, no, I just did. Rich people never call the cops.
No. Call the fucking doctor.
Call your lawyer.

Speaker 1 You call your anyone. And there's so many people.
The thing is, help me. An uncle.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to name people.

Speaker 1 So he arrived.

Speaker 1 Okay, so the doctor says to the cops that he hears Hugh yelling at them from this place not to come into the room.

Speaker 1 And then there's the second shot. And when the doctor goes in, he finds both men.
And their whole story is that Ned had been shot by Hugh, and Hugh had shot himself like a murder-suicide.

Speaker 1 And then I wrote, suspicious shit.

Speaker 1 I really, it's right there.

Speaker 1 So, okay, here's some suspicious shit. Ned's gun, the fucking Doheny dude's gun, was the murder weapon.
Super weird, right?

Speaker 1 And before the police were called, the bodies had been moved from their original position. And the body, and the police weren't called until 2 a.m.

Speaker 1 So the first shot is at 11 p.m. and the fucking cops are called at 2 a.m.

Speaker 1 So they were moving stuff around. They were yeah, the fucking bodies were moved.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the detective, and so what it looked like is that that Ned was shot by Doheny in the head, and then Doheny, who had a like a lit cigarette in his hand, had like landed on the gun after killing himself.

Speaker 1 Suspicious shit, right? Yeah, but

Speaker 1 the police, but

Speaker 1 there were powder burns on the hole in Doheny's head, which means the gun had been less than three inches away from his head and killed himself,

Speaker 1 which usually points to suicide. And there was no powder burns on Hugh, which every fucking person here who's ever watching a fucking Discovery ID thing knows that, like, you check for powder burns.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And that's who shoots the fucking gun.
There weren't any.

Speaker 1 Da-da-da-da.

Speaker 1 Okay, but within hours, the DA's office holds a press conference, and they're like, no, this is a murder-suicide, and like this poor person killed this rich person, and like close the fucking case, no autopsies, nothing, which is like, you're in charge of the media at that point.

Speaker 1 Okay, so here are some theories. One was that it was a murder-suicide,

Speaker 1 but that Ned and Hugh had been together, and that Ned and Hugh had been called to testify on the bribery trials,

Speaker 1 but that Ned had been assured immunity, and Hugh had not, and he felt betrayed, which is true. Ned was assured immunity against his father.
Hugh was not. They were throwing him under the bus.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they were going to make the poor guy take the fall. Yeah, yeah.
Fuck this dude. for Albert Fall.
Exactly. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 The other was that Ned and Hugh were lovers, okay,

Speaker 1 and that they had a fight and that Lucy caught them,

Speaker 1 the wife of

Speaker 1 Ned caught them and killed them herself, which is why I shouldn't call the cops immediately.

Speaker 1 And what supports either of the lover that they were lover stories and that they killed each other in a lover's quarrel is that they were both buried in Forest Lawn, which is a secular cemetery, but the Doheny family were devout Catholics.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you you can't bury someone in a Catholic cemetery if they killed themselves.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, that's right, because suicide is a,

Speaker 1 what do you call it? Number one sex. Yes, like a number.
Cardinal, venial. Here we go.

Speaker 1 Catholicness. Who went there?

Speaker 1 Baruchata. Okay, so.

Speaker 1 Okay, or that they were lovers and everyone knew it. And so they were buried like within a few feet of each other in this secular fucking place.
All right.

Speaker 1 Okay. And so they were buried together and close by, and so no one really knows why they killed each other or who killed who and why.
But it seems very suspicious.

Speaker 1 And also, because of the sympathy that they had for Doheny, having his son being killed, his investigation was basically called off, which makes everyone think that maybe the senior Doheny fucking killed both of them.

Speaker 1 Oh, whoa. To to get them to shut the fuck up

Speaker 1 because he was getting off yeah wasn't because he got off because of his kid getting murdered so basically anybody in that family could have murdered them yeah essentially yeah and then christmas was fun i bet at their house

Speaker 1 okay uh

Speaker 1 so now it's a city park now and so everyone let's meet there tomorrow

Speaker 1 you can go there now and just have tours and just chill and have a fucking picnic it's pretty amazing it's an amazing house. It's supposed to be cool.

Speaker 1 It's beautiful, but it's also supposed to be haunted. I hope so.
Yeah. If all that happened.
Dude. Yeah.
All right. Nice one.
Hey, look, those are our murders.

Speaker 1 Thanks. Is that it? Are we done? Well, we now have some special guests to bring out because, as you know, yes, it's very exciting.

Speaker 1 This is the portion of our show that we normally do, hometown murders. And so we thought it would be fun to have our two friends,

Speaker 1 our brother podcast, you might want to say, from the dollop, Dave Anthony and Gary Reynolds.

Speaker 1 Yay! Get over there. You get over there.
Hi.

Speaker 1 Hi. Hi.

Speaker 1 Hi.

Speaker 1 Hi. How do you care?

Speaker 1 Why don't you surround us?

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's

Speaker 1 good. Really take the stage.
Thank you. so ned and who's the other guy what oh he

Speaker 1 they were totally they were totally fucking because someone came in and saw them fucking and then they weren't fucking they killed them and then they put their clothes on and moved them around you for sure about that they moved them around they put their clothes on after murder dress why else would you be moving them around no for sure all of it i didn't want to say that because i'm not a fucking yeah they were totally getting it on okay we've you've been clear

Speaker 1 we all have theories day Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, we are back. Are there updates for this story? Again, no updates because it's

Speaker 1 vintage. We call it vintage, but you can go see the manor, the interactive play that made you uncomfortable, Karen.
Obviously, this is great advertisement for them. Yes.
You can go see it.

Speaker 1 It's performed annually, typically each January through February at the Greystone Mansion. It's an immersive room-to-room performance inside the mansion.
I mean, that sounds awesome.

Speaker 1 Telling the dramatized version of the Doheny murders, it's become a local institution, often selling out before even general release. Listen, I give this an A-plus in terms of performance concept.

Speaker 1 You're in the mansion, whatever. What makes me uncomfortable is as a person who was like a drama major, I'm like, how come she got that part instead of me? There's all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 You can play it like this. Yes, you're outside of it, but when you're actually at it, you just are really in this situation watching these people.
It's very, very cool. It's such a cool gimmick.

Speaker 1 I wish there were more places that did stuff like that. The immersive style of

Speaker 1 cool. So you can find more information at theater4040.org.
All right. And then we had very special guest.

Speaker 1 Our dear friend and supporter of the podcast from the beginning. Yes.
Dave Anthony from the Dollop. And he is going to talk about Ken McElroy.

Speaker 1 Now, a detractor of this podcast from the beginning is Gareth Reynolds, who's also from The Dollop. No, just kidding.
But here's a producerial decision that I still can't believe that we made.

Speaker 1 We had both of them tell stories. What the fuck? It was way too long.

Speaker 1 No one needs four stories.

Speaker 1 I think we were just like excited and we were there and we were just like, the more, the merrier.

Speaker 1 But I feel bad because by the time Gareth was telling his story, everyone's like, shut the fuck up. My butt's numbed.
Let's stop doing this. Everyone, I saw a lot of Twitter.

Speaker 1 We didn't drive up there to listen to two men talk

Speaker 1 on the like Women's March Day, where I was just like, oh, okay, sorry. That makes sense.
If we had had like a strong female lead come on stage and galvanized, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 I know. All right.
Well, sorry. That was back when we were self-produced.
Yeah. Dave and Gareth, apologies.
We just set them up for failure, but they did a great job.

Speaker 1 They did a great job and we had a great time. That's right.
That's all that matters. We should have just had one less story.
Okay, here we go.

Speaker 1 We heard you guys have hometown murders. I don't have a hometown murder.
So what? So, you know, last time I was on, I did my hometown murder. Yeah.
So

Speaker 1 there's a murderer that everybody who listens to Dollop has always been like, you have to do this one. And I'm like, we don't do murders.

Speaker 1 In a couple ways.

Speaker 1 What do you mean?

Speaker 2 We don't murder people and we don't cover them.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 we've actually started murdering people. Oh, that's news.
Well, I'll bring you in on it. Thank you.
You guys need to have a team meeting. We should have a meeting.

Speaker 2 It's been too long, turns out.

Speaker 1 We're not communicating. I've been killing our our fans.

Speaker 2 Okay, well, we should catch up more often, I think.

Speaker 1 You know how you keep losing one fan a week? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Here's the murder. Okay, so I'm going to tell you guys.
So my uncle. Oh, wait, Dave, sorry.
I'm so sorry. Go ahead.

Speaker 1 I just remembered something.

Speaker 1 That I used to slash your buttocks when we did.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's the scars.

Speaker 1 How dare you speak of our secrets this way

Speaker 1 at the Orpheum.

Speaker 1 Know that you guys did

Speaker 1 that we did the Tylenol murders. Oh my gosh.
And then we did the Bhagwan Shwee Rajneesh, which I didn't know that you guys had just. Yes, they did it

Speaker 1 at the same time. Don't fucking write our coattails, man.
No. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 1 We put out the Tylenol like within hours of each other, right? Yes.

Speaker 1 So, but you guys did it from the murder perspective, and we did a different perspective that the fucking guy kept admitting to it, and he didn't do it. Like the guy who they thought did it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, crazy guy.

Speaker 1 It's some guy out there who's still out there. That guy's still out there.
No, it's fucking

Speaker 1 staring at Excedron. It's the Unabomber, dude.
Like he's ready to go, that guy.

Speaker 1 You think it's a Unabomber? 100 fucking percent. Yeah.
That could totally be the Unabomber. It's fucking the Unabomber, I promise you.
Koresh, right?

Speaker 1 Nope. Not Koresh.
It's the Unabomber.

Speaker 1 Koresh is. Koresh is dead.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 the Unibomber. Cresh? Correct.

Speaker 1 That is why I love you.

Speaker 1 The Unibomber, Ted Bundy. None of you are here for fucking facts.
Don't fucking come at me. No, I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'm embarrassed.

Speaker 1 Sorry, I interrupted you anyway.

Speaker 1 Kresh didn't make it. He burned up in a house with some people.
Yes, he's an angel. I believe in him.
Kaczynski. Kaczynski.
Same thing.

Speaker 1 Don't people also think that he is the

Speaker 1 San Francisco zodiac? Zodiac? Do they think so?

Speaker 1 That's an idea. That's stupid.
Right. It's Ted Cruz.

Speaker 1 We're going to solve it all tonight. Yeah, it's really, we're knocking a lot down.

Speaker 1 Sorry, Dave, telecommores.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yep.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Karen knows what mine is. I should have brought it up.
Should have had it on my iPad.

Speaker 1 Ken McIlroy. Nope, that's not right.

Speaker 1 No, it is. It's McKilroy.
I didn't even notice that when I was writing it. M-C-E-L-R-O-I.
McElroy, right? We're all on drugs. His fucking name is killing me.
I should have seen that coming. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's born in 1934. He was the 15th of 16 children.

Speaker 1 Is he a rabbit? Yeah.

Speaker 1 The fuck.

Speaker 1 Listen.

Speaker 2 It was just like how caviar is birthed. Run! Be free, children.

Speaker 1 All of you now.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. That is just like, the baby comes out and he's like, let's do it again.

Speaker 1 Do you even like know your parents if you're the 15 of 16?

Speaker 1 No, your eldest brother's like, I'm called dad.

Speaker 1 They lived in a four-bedroom house, so let's do some math. Oh, no.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's not good. 32 people to a room.
That's exactly right, Karen. Your math is exactly right.

Speaker 1 He never learned to read well.

Speaker 1 He never really had a great job. He quit school in the the fifth grade.

Speaker 2 I wonder why he never got a good job.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 2 There are any facts about that?

Speaker 1 They lived outside of Skidmore, Missouri, a town of about 450 people.

Speaker 1 It has two paved streets. They were all of them.

Speaker 2 It's our town.

Speaker 1 Two paved streets, no traffic lights, one small mom and pop store, a gas station, cafe. That's it.
It's the whole deal.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 he started stealing animals.

Speaker 1 Sure. He started stealing animals.
Sure. Sure.
Before he was 18 years old. He bought an old sedan

Speaker 1 and he took the back seat out and he put plywood down. Oh.
And then he'd drive around at night and steal pigs.

Speaker 1 Oh, all right. I mean,

Speaker 1 okay. Well, he had a plan.
It's Missouri. You know, it's classic Missouri.
For some reason, it's like

Speaker 1 when you picture like dogs or cats, it's like, oh, God. And it's like, he stole pigs.
And it's like, this is funny.

Speaker 1 I like this story.

Speaker 1 Well, he would sell them.

Speaker 1 He would steal them and sell them to someone who wanted to buy pigs. That's better than killing pigs.
Oh, yeah. No, he wasn't taking them out and killing them.
He was like, we want to buy them.

Speaker 1 We can eventually kill them though. Fair enough.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, people are eating these pigs.

Speaker 1 At the end, the story's not great for the pigs.

Speaker 1 Just want to feed them peppermints and put that on YouTube.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure you've ever been to a farm.

Speaker 1 So he married for the first time at the age of 18. She was 16.

Speaker 1 They moved briefly to Denver, but he couldn't keep a job there, so he and his wife moved back. He started hanging out with two of his raccoon hunting buddies.

Speaker 1 You guys earlier was talking about raccoons. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You were making this sound cute. They are horrible monsters.
Oh, that's not fair. That come into my backyard and do this.

Speaker 1 That's not fair. So I don't know what right.

Speaker 2 They tell stories about you.

Speaker 1 Oh, this asshole.

Speaker 2 He's like,

Speaker 1 you know, they do that about you. Actually, can I tell a true story? Sure.
One time I heard a noise at my back door in the middle of the night. I was scared shitless, but I had to go see.

Speaker 1 This is before I got a dog. And I had to go see by myself.
So it was like a weird tapping sound. And so I go over and I turn on the porch light at the back.

Speaker 1 And there was a raccoon that that was trying to get through the like built-in cat door. Oh, yeah, like with his little raccoon hands.

Speaker 1 And when I flicked on the light, he kind of like sat up and looked at me, and then we were just staring at each other.

Speaker 1 That's what they do. I kicked the door, right? Like,

Speaker 1 he's leaned over like this, you know, kind of trying to tap on the thing. And then I kicked the door thinking he's gonna run away, and instead he goes

Speaker 1 and just kind of like stood up and paused at me.

Speaker 1 And that's your that's her dog, Frank. Now, he's fucking.

Speaker 1 Okay, so I'm in my backyard. It's not worth the act out at all.
I'm in my backyard.

Speaker 1 I'm going to do an act out. I'm in my backyard.
Do it. Do it.
And

Speaker 1 I hear all this noise, and I'm like, well, there's raccoons getting in the dog or cat's food, one or the other. And so I go out there and I grab a bat because I know raccoons are terrifying.

Speaker 1 I'm not like her, where I'm like, hi, raccoon. I have a bat.
To be fair.

Speaker 1 And I come out and there's a raccoon and it comes out and it's like this in front of me and i'm like what are you doing i tap the bat on the ground and it's like what

Speaker 1 his stance got wider yeah he's like what are you doing yeah he had a bat too and i'm like

Speaker 1 and i'm like you're supposed to be scared and he's like i'm not scared you're doing his voice where he speaks and

Speaker 1 And so I'm doing that. I'm like, get out of here, you fucker.

Speaker 1 And then he's standing there and he's making himself big. And then his four buddies go trucking by.
Holy shit. Like

Speaker 1 he was like the distraction guy.

Speaker 1 So his bowels could run off. Terrifying.

Speaker 1 He's like when there's the midnight bicycle riders, and one of them stops in the middle of the fucking intersection, and they're like, fuck you. And then like a bunch of you go running.

Speaker 1 Get on, get the ball, get the ball. Go, go, go.
All of you.

Speaker 1 Fucking out, you fucking thick scare, motherfuckers.

Speaker 1 Midnight ride.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 we go.

Speaker 1 it's derailed.

Speaker 1 So he goes out hunting with his buddies and they shoot raccoons.

Speaker 1 And I assume they eat them. What else would you do with a

Speaker 1 delightful raccoon?

Speaker 1 But mostly what he did at night was steal cattle, horses, and hogs. He now had a horse trailer that he used to move stolen animals.
And

Speaker 1 in this part of Missouri, they didn't really brand animals, so it was super easy for him to steal. He was also very skilled at harassing witnesses.
Oh.

Speaker 1 He had an attorney who he would retain for $5,000 per felony who would keep him

Speaker 1 out of jail.

Speaker 1 And this was not a problem because he had a lot of money. He was always living large.
He had a big roll of cash in his truck. He was diving a new.

Speaker 1 Was it pig money?

Speaker 1 He's stealing pigs and cattle and horses and selling them to other people.

Speaker 2 So he had that fuck you pig money.

Speaker 1 Fuck you pig money. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like the 450 people in his fucking town were like, wait a minute. Yeah.
Nobody was like, how? Wait a minute. How?

Speaker 1 And also, someone was like, I'm going to marry him.

Speaker 1 What is wrong with him? You got it all.

Speaker 1 A van with pigs.

Speaker 1 Swoon.

Speaker 1 One time a farmer caught him stealing two horses. Tortoises.

Speaker 1 Two tortoises. What you do with my tortoises, boy?

Speaker 1 They ran into my car.

Speaker 1 I haven't milked them yet. Ran.

Speaker 1 So.

Speaker 1 Well, we can move.

Speaker 1 So the farmer reported it to the cops and said, this guy stole my horses and filed charges. And

Speaker 1 McElroy visited the farmer the next day with a rifle and hit him in the face with the butt of the gun.

Speaker 1 And then the farmer dropped the charges. He was like, that's fair.
I didn't.

Speaker 1 I see your point.

Speaker 1 You're fine. I'm on your side now.

Speaker 1 When McElroy was 20, he had a child with a woman who was not his wife.

Speaker 1 At the same time, he was dating a 15-year-old girl.

Speaker 1 What the fuck? What the fuck? Like, this guy, dude, this guy gets so many fucking chicks. Yeah,

Speaker 1 he's a very hot prospect in town. Well, he's got the pig card.
Yeah, he smells like pig. I mean,

Speaker 1 this girl was named Sharon, and they had a complicated and messy relationship. And one day they were arguing, and he shot her in the neck with a shotgun.

Speaker 1 She did not die, but she did have scars, because that'll happen.

Speaker 2 She was okay?

Speaker 1 Yeah, she lived after getting shot. Well, she was hella mad.
Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2 she had a fear of guns after it, some irrational fear.

Speaker 1 And she felt like dating someone else

Speaker 1 after that.

Speaker 1 After that. Nope, she forgave him.
Oh, good. Good, good, good.
And he divorced his first wife and married her. They had two kids.

Speaker 1 Then around.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That's quite a turnaround.
You know what?

Speaker 1 Love is fucking awesome. Stupid.
Crazy.

Speaker 1 Then around 1961, McAlway started dating a 13-year-old girl. What's going on?

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 He's just.

Speaker 2 You've slowly inched it back creepier and creepier. It started and it wasn't okay.

Speaker 1 So he's 27 at this point.

Speaker 1 Yeah, 27-year-olds are fucking disgusting. We all know that.

Speaker 1 Also, at this point, he's living with his parents. Oh, my Jesus.

Speaker 1 guy.

Speaker 1 Dream Daisy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wait a minute.

Speaker 2 You live with your parents, smell like pigs, and shoot girls?

Speaker 1 You're still available? Oh, you're not.

Speaker 2 I'm still in. I'm still in.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so they have a farmhouse. So he moved Sally in with his parents and his wife, Sharon.

Speaker 1 So it's his girlfriend and his wife and his parents and their kids. What?

Speaker 1 So Sally had three kids, and Sharon had two more. Oh, honey.

Speaker 1 McInrolle then met and started seeing another underage girl named Alice

Speaker 1 in 1964.

Speaker 1 Seriously.

Speaker 1 She was 12. No.
Shut up. What? Shut up.

Speaker 1 I wish the story would end that all the ladies fucking murdered him and moved to New York City and then, like, became, you know, like,

Speaker 1 who's the Rockets? Okay, that's what I was going to say. This is the story of the Rockets.
But it doesn't. That's how the Rock

Speaker 1 began.

Speaker 1 And then he met a young woman named Marsha. I don't know.

Speaker 1 She was nice.

Speaker 1 She was now living there.

Speaker 1 And then, so it's Marsha and Alice are living in his parents' house with the six kids. And then he met 12-year-old.

Speaker 2 There's a bodybunch commonalities right there.

Speaker 1 Then he met 12-year-old Trina. Jam.

Speaker 1 who was an eighth grader, and

Speaker 1 he seduced her. No, he didn't.
So he like, gave her candy, and yeah, and then molested. That's not seduction, dude.
Well, I didn't seduction, it's not seduction, it's not seduction, no, no,

Speaker 1 like he fucking put these sexy moves. He was just like, I'm a I am a man, you're a girl.
That's what seduction is. Yeah,

Speaker 1 this is my pig.

Speaker 1 Yeah, have you ever seen a pig?

Speaker 1 And then you're in your sedan on the wood floor.

Speaker 1 He's 37 by the way oh you

Speaker 1 at this point so to have trina moved in he kicks out marcia he's like you're old you're like 13.

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 1 uh so then trina moves in drops out of school in the ninth grade and is pregnant by the time she's 14.

Speaker 1 things weren't going that well because just 16 days after the birth Alice uh took off uh to her parents' house.

Speaker 1 The escape lasted just hours because McElroy came to the home with a gun and forced the girls to come back with him. Oh,

Speaker 1 Alice, her other friend, who's there now? The other one also went with her.

Speaker 1 Maureen? Maureen?

Speaker 1 Let's call her Maureen. Maureen goes back also.
So then he brings them back and

Speaker 1 he beats them both. Oh, good.
And made them have sex with him,

Speaker 1 which I believe is called rape. Yes.
Yes.

Speaker 1 And then when he was done, he brought Trina back to her parents' house

Speaker 1 and shot the family dog.

Speaker 1 No, you can't do that here.

Speaker 1 And then poured gas all around the house and burned it down. Jesus.

Speaker 1 So he is en Fuego. Like he's just fucking...
As far as being horrible, he's killing it. Yeah, he's doing very well.
Oh, man. God, like, just fucking...
chill out, dude. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Just chill out. It's not a solution, George.
No, it is. It won't work.
I'm not sure. If someone had walked in and gone, dude, chill,

Speaker 1 we don't know what would have happened. We don't.
We know.

Speaker 1 A couple of days later, Trina went to a doctor because, you know, she had been beaten. And he was like, you look like you've been beaten.

Speaker 2 You're very good.

Speaker 1 Is this doctor from the city? He really knows this stuff.

Speaker 2 Boy, your degrees are real, huh?

Speaker 1 You put the nail on the head, Doc.

Speaker 1 He slowly got the story of the beating out of her and the dog shooting and the arson.

Speaker 1 So the doctor contacts the social welfare agency who put Trina and her baby into foster care because she was a child.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 then the case was taken to the district attorney. And on the basis of Trina's testimony, Mackerel was indicted for arson, assault, and rape.
But it was not looking good.

Speaker 1 He was represented by defense attorney Richard Gene McFadden, who said McElroy was his favorite client because he always paid cash and he always came back.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 Get your shit another. What the fuck is wrong with you, dude? Like, just the worst.

Speaker 1 Hey, you're back. Who'd you kill? All right.
What'd you shoot a pig or a person? What'd you do?

Speaker 2 A person doghouse.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Woo. Trifector.
All right.

Speaker 2 I'm going to buy a house boat.

Speaker 1 Time for me to live on a boat.

Speaker 1 But even with his $5,000 per felony charge, the attorney told him it would be difficult for him to be acquitted. But McRoy would not give up.

Speaker 1 He found the foster home where Trina was living and began make threatening phone calls. He would sit out in front of the foster home for hours and hours, sometimes shooting a gun into the air.
What?

Speaker 1 He then called the Foster family. He's a fucking nerd.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's a cartoon. It sounds like a cartoon.
What about this isn't working?

Speaker 1 Did I not tell you this was Yosemite Sam?

Speaker 1 Yosemite Sam origin story.

Speaker 1 Then he called the Foster family and said he would trade, quote, girl for girl to get his child back.

Speaker 1 By this, he meant he knew where the Foster family's biological daughter went to school and what bus she rode. So that didn't go well.

Speaker 1 And the district attorney then hit him with eight more felony child molestation charges as a result of it, a result of his sexual activity with Trina.

Speaker 1 The attorney kept using delay tactics, and after a while, Trina decided to go back to McElroy. I can't go through this again with you, Dave.

Speaker 1 He then arranged to divorce his second wife, Sharon, from whom he'd been separated for years, and marry Trina.

Speaker 1 To get Trina's parents to agree, he threatened to kill the mother. And the mother was like, okay, you can marry my daughter.

Speaker 2 We like him.

Speaker 1 That's sweet. It's romantic.
And I'm like, oh, my God. So this solved all his legal problems because being his wife, Trina could not be compelled to testify against him.

Speaker 1 She also signed a statement saying she had lied about everything. And McElroy beat the charges.
And her. His wife, yeah.

Speaker 1 In 1976, he shot

Speaker 1 a neighbor farmer in the face and stomach. What? The gun was loaded with birdshot.

Speaker 1 The lawyer also delayed it as long as possible while McElroy intimidated the farmer driving by his house, shining a spotlight into his windows at night, destroying his tractors, and shooting guns into the air.

Speaker 1 The farmer said McElroy parked outside his home at least 100 times and would just sit there.

Speaker 1 At the trial, two of his raccoon hunting buddies said they were with him the day of the shooting, and McElroy got again.

Speaker 1 The pattern of committing crimes, then intimidating witnesses, went on for four years. Then, in 1980, two of his daughters went into a town store.
So he's got two daughters.

Speaker 1 One's like a teenager, and the other's five. So the older girl buys something, and then as they walk out, the five-year-old girl grabs a couple little pieces of candy.
Sure. I did that.

Speaker 1 I did.

Speaker 1 And the clerk was like, hey, put that shit back. And then the girl was like,

Speaker 1 and threw it back and was mad, which is cool for a five-year-old.

Speaker 1 And then a couple hours later, McElroy and Trina showed up, and McElroy was just kicking it with a knife.

Speaker 1 And Trina and the owner argued about how she treated, he had treated the daughter.

Speaker 1 And then the couple said, Well, you're banned from our store. You can never come back.

Speaker 1 So McElroy started harassing the owners, and then after a couple months, he pulled up in the back of the store and shot the husband owner in the neck with a shotgun. Really? And he lived.

Speaker 1 Everybody in this neck is he shooting.

Speaker 1 This whole city is filled with people with the most powerful necks. Yes.

Speaker 1 Titanium necks. Yes.
What is it, the water? Or like...

Speaker 1 Their necks are bulletproof. It's so strange.
But.

Speaker 1 Like, cool.

Speaker 1 Now, McElroy was arrested again, and then he started harassing the store owners. And he calmed the fuck down.

Speaker 2 He needs to stop harassing and shooting in the neck.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the air. Enough.

Speaker 2 And marrying children.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of things for him to knock off.

Speaker 1 Dude's got a thing. Like, he's his thing.
We hate his thing. Well,

Speaker 1 we're being very clear. I mean, take it up with Pepsi because they were sponsoring him.

Speaker 1 For doing all this? Yeah. Oh.

Speaker 1 He had like four sponsors. Was this like what's the extreme sports thing when you can skateboard? He's like X games.
X games.

Speaker 1 He did it all on a little bike. OG X Games.

Speaker 1 So he starts harassing the store owners, and then when he heard that the town minister had gone to visit the store owner in the hospital because of his neck wound, he turned his wrath on the minister.

Speaker 1 I mean. And he told the minister he was going to castrate him and cut his son to pieces in front of him.

Speaker 1 Chill. So the minister started carrying a gun.

Speaker 1 It's a good town. Get it.

Speaker 1 I like that just because the minister went and visited him, he's like, well, I'm going to cut your kid kid up.

Speaker 1 He's like, it's my job. I go and I see people that are hurt.
Doctor.

Speaker 1 I'm cutting your balls off.

Speaker 1 I'm not laughing at that. So his lawyer's whole thing was delay tactics.
So he starts with the delay tactics again. He keeps delaying the trial.

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, McElroy would sit in the local bar and talk loudly about

Speaker 1 how he was going to kill the store owner.

Speaker 1 But it didn't. The bar was empty, and it was like three people, and he was talking loudly in it.
I can hear you. I'm going to kill him.
Fuck up, dude. Sick of that guy, right?

Speaker 2 Someone should shoot him in the neck.

Speaker 1 Okay, I will.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 it didn't work. There was a trial, and McElroy was convicted of second-degree assault and sentenced to two years in prison.

Speaker 1 But.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 it being Missouri, he was allowed to stay free while he appealed.

Speaker 1 Okay. That's nice.

Speaker 1 Four days later, he was back in the local bar.

Speaker 1 Hey, how'd your conviction go? Oh, it was all right.

Speaker 1 Guilty. Guilty.
Totally fucking guilty.

Speaker 1 Here I am drinking a beer.

Speaker 1 And then Trina came in and handed him a large gun.

Speaker 1 He said he was going to kill the store owner, but having a gun was a violation of his parole, so he was charged.

Speaker 1 On the day of his hearing for his parole violation, the entire town decided they had had enough.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I like the sound of this.
After 20 years have been fucking all their daughters. Oh, Roman! That's it.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 when they got to the courthouse, they found out the lawyer had gotten it postponed for 10 days. Now they were pissed.
And they finally decided they needed to do something.

Speaker 1 And they all went to the American Legion. I love that in this little town they do have an American Legion.

Speaker 1 Got to. Great bar there, I know.

Speaker 2 That and the Sam's Club.

Speaker 1 So they have a town meeting, and they call the sheriff and ask the sheriff to come by.

Speaker 1 The sheriff comes by and they tell him what's going on, and the sheriff told them that they should just start a neighborhood watch group.

Speaker 1 That's good.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 he's not very helpful.

Speaker 2 Meet Agent McGruff.

Speaker 1 He's going to help you with this case. Find it very useful.
So there's a guy who's been fucking your daughters and shooting you in the neck.

Speaker 1 You need like a watch group. Have you guys made any kind of a phone tree or anything? Called each other

Speaker 1 regularly?

Speaker 2 What's your deal?

Speaker 1 He told them not to confront McElroy,

Speaker 1 and then the sheriff just left.

Speaker 1 Goodbye.

Speaker 1 But like they all had titanium necks. Yes, at this point, they all have

Speaker 1 metal neck guards.

Speaker 1 Right then, Trina and McElroy show up and went to the bar for a drink. When the townspeople heard this, they all decided to go have a beer.

Speaker 1 Trina was said to be very intimidated by all of the townspeople standing around. While McElroy coolly finished his beer, went up and bought a six-pack, and then went outside.

Speaker 1 Outside, there were three or four guys,

Speaker 1 and they got their rifles out of their trucks.

Speaker 1 And then the entire crowd came out of the bar and followed him to his truck. And it was said there were, at the very least, 35 people, but probably more like 60,

Speaker 1 all standing there. And Trina and McElroy then got inside the truck, and he coolly lit a cigarette.
Oh, fuck.

Speaker 1 And then Trina looked across the street and saw a man aiming a rifle, and she yelled, they've got a gun.

Speaker 1 And then they shot at him from more than one direction. McElroy was hit once in the head and once in the neck.
And the shot

Speaker 1 wound. It was the head wound.
You've got to shoot in the neck in this town.

Speaker 1 You've got to. Legally.
Welcome to Neckville, motherfucker.

Speaker 1 Many other shots at the truck. All the shots came from different guns, and McElroy died instantly.

Speaker 2 From the gunshots.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 No. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Some sadness. Oh, depression.
Got him. About suicide.

Speaker 1 Suicide. It looks like he did it to himself.

Speaker 1 About carbon monoxide got in. About 45 minutes later, they called an ambulance.

Speaker 1 Wow. I'm sorry about that.
That's sarcastic, actually.

Speaker 1 Unfortunately, no one saw the shooter. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 A lot was going on. Except Trina, who identified him.
She was in the truck, you know, and she saw him, but the DA declined to press charges because everyone was like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 Because he was there, too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He was the guy hitting him with the iron pan on the head.

Speaker 1 The FBI came in to investigate, but they also could not press any charges because everyone in the town was like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 He left behind 10 children, 10 wonderful children,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 a few wives.

Speaker 1 After his death, cattle and hog wrestling in the county dropped significantly.

Speaker 1 In 1984, Trina filed a $6 million

Speaker 1 lawsuit against the town and the sheriff and

Speaker 1 the mayor and the guy who had shot him across the street. The case was settled out of court for $17,000.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 So she bought a Yaris? Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's cool. She fully owns, though, fully owns.

Speaker 1 Fully owns a Yaris.

Speaker 1 So that's my favorite murder. That's pretty good.

Speaker 1 But God. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He was a fucking monster, and they killed him. That was 1981, and they killed him, and everyone was like,

Speaker 1 I love it. Yeah, what are you going to do? We'll get there again.

Speaker 1 We're on our way.

Speaker 1 Let's kill him again.

Speaker 1 Gareth? Okay, great.

Speaker 1 Nice, Dave. Nice, Dave.
That was good. Thank you.

Speaker 1 You know what? I can't. Last time I came on, I wrote a story about about a guy from my hometown who killed women, and I can't do those stories because I feel weird as a guy reading.

Speaker 1 Well, you're sexist.

Speaker 1 Well, to that point, I'll get into mine.

Speaker 1 This is about men killing women, right?

Speaker 2 It's the same story as yours, nonetheless.

Speaker 1 It's a different interpretation.

Speaker 2 Yeah, totally different take.

Speaker 1 I do it from the pig angle.

Speaker 2 So this will be fun.

Speaker 1 I'm from Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Speaker 2 So, ripe for

Speaker 2 murders. We have Ed Gein, Skin Ottomans, Dahmer, obvious choice.

Speaker 1 Skin Ottomans? Yeah. Did he make actual Ottomans? Well, I don't know.

Speaker 2 I haven't seen the whole collection.

Speaker 1 He made a nipple belt.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he made a nipple belt.

Speaker 2 I might have taken some creative liberties.

Speaker 2 As we all know, Stephen Avery. So this is another story.
This is about the Northside Strangler who is actually,

Speaker 2 this is some more good detective work.

Speaker 2 So in October 10th and 11th, 1986, 1986, two sex workers, Deborah Harris, Tanya Miller, were both strangled one day apart. Both bodies found in vacant apartments.

Speaker 2 Since they were both strangled, sex workers found in empty apartments, day apart, cops thought there might be a link.

Speaker 2 So which shows you they're pretty good there.

Speaker 1 Surprisingly,

Speaker 1 they're not stupid.

Speaker 2 However, this was before they were collecting DNA, or DNA was shaky, so the murders went unsolved.

Speaker 2 So then June 20th, 1987, Joyce Ann Mims was found strangled in a vacant apartment by some construction workers in Milwaukee's North Side.

Speaker 2 She was also believed to be a sex worker, had no criminal record, but George Mule Jones.

Speaker 1 Mule Jones?

Speaker 2 George Mule Jones.

Speaker 1 Do you mean George the Mule?

Speaker 2 George the Mule Jones.

Speaker 1 Now, is this a nickname? Does he have a big hog? Is he...

Speaker 1 Well. Is this a family name?

Speaker 2 I have a theory, but we'll get there.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 You probably know. You know him?

Speaker 1 No. Okay.

Speaker 1 Yes, we went to high school together. Yeah.
He's at the Improv A lot.

Speaker 2 George Mule Jones.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. He's so funny.
He's great.

Speaker 2 Rides it on a horse.

Speaker 1 He's one of my favorite stand-ups.

Speaker 2 So they charge George Mule Jones with the murder because he was friends with Mims from Cleveland, and they were still friends with Mims and his girlfriend, who was simply known as Sugar Baby.

Speaker 1 Why not Mims? That's the coolest fucking Mims I've ever gotten. I heard him.

Speaker 2 Well, they're different. Mims was killed.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 Okay, no, they are the same, and she should have been called Sugar Baby.

Speaker 1 I couldn't agree more, Georgia.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 Jones had a criminal record because he was actually convicted of murder in Mississippi.

Speaker 1 That doesn't mean anything.

Speaker 1 Oh, you aren't lying.

Speaker 2 He stabbed a woman and was sentenced to five years.

Speaker 1 You know what? That's a good idea. A year of stab, I think, yeah.
For your first

Speaker 2 stab, I think, is what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 Like, your first murder should be like three. Yeah.
You know what I mean? And if you do it again, well, then, then, all right.

Speaker 1 Don't, you're seriously going to piss Georgia off and then it's going to be fucking ugly out of here. I'm going to cry and I'm going to flip this fucking table.
No, but it'll be fine.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's fine. Let me get my beers and my iPad.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So, the woman that he killed was, there was a name Shamika Carter. She was killed because she made fun of George Mule Jones' inability to perform sexually.

Speaker 1 That happens a lot with murderers, right? Isn't that one of their things? Like, they can't get it up and then they kill. That's, yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, Well, that's I don't do that. If I can't get it up,

Speaker 1 I just walk away.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Could you tell your friends? Shamefully, I'm like, I'm going to watch Law and Order.

Speaker 2 Yeah, as long as murder's involved in some way. I'm going to watch a murder be committed instead of committing my own.

Speaker 1 And then I'll be back. And then I'll be back with ideas.

Speaker 1 I might cut your buttocks. And a new soundtrack.

Speaker 2 Okay, so yeah, so he went down for that killing. So then police thought,

Speaker 2 but there's still killings going on. Oh, and in his apartment, they found a black ski mask and nine women's shoes in his house.

Speaker 1 I have that too in my house, though. Wait, yeah.
To be fair. Nine women's shoe and a ski mask? Yeah.
That's actually all I have in my house. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Nine is a weird number. Nine for shoes.

Speaker 1 Well, there's a, unless there was a lady with just one leg.

Speaker 2 Not in my house.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 he goes down for these murders.

Speaker 2 He goes down for this murder in particular.

Speaker 1 Yes, this one. Right?

Speaker 1 There's been three murders so far.

Speaker 2 This is the third murder.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yes.

Speaker 2 There's more to come.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. We see your papers in your hand.

Speaker 1 Okay. I'm moving fast.
In my story, the bad guy dies. Okay, Dave, we were there.

Speaker 2 So the idea of a serial killer was floated out by Bill Vogel, who is the homicide unit in Wisconsin, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Speaker 2 He told the police, his chief, that he thought both women that were killed the year before were done by the same man.

Speaker 2 He entered with a business-like attitude, quote, to discuss the matter, and I used the word cereal and I got reamed out, said Vogel.

Speaker 1 Get out of here, Vogel, you son of a bitch.

Speaker 1 I don't want to hear the word cereal again. I hate that.
I don't care if you're talking about Cheerios. Season two sucks.
No.

Speaker 1 I'm totally kidding. I love the fuck.
Oh. Steven, Steven.

Speaker 1 Cut it. Cut it.

Speaker 1 Cut that out. Cut that.
That never happened.

Speaker 2 And both the doors.

Speaker 2 You will all unremember.

Speaker 1 Known as forgetting. Can we get the steam? Whatever the fuck? Gas.
Are you talking about flash pots? Gas, steam. Oh, we're going to knock these people out.

Speaker 2 You're damn right we are.

Speaker 1 Like the Joker in Batman.

Speaker 2 So, yeah, so his chief was like, hey, man, we don't want people freaking out with the word cereal. Let's just...

Speaker 1 Shut up about that.

Speaker 1 That's the best way to handle a

Speaker 1 serial killer. Smart.

Speaker 1 Let's act like it's not happening.

Speaker 2 Strangulations kept happening.

Speaker 2 In 1992, Irene Smith, 25, was found dead.

Speaker 2 In

Speaker 2 1932, we're going back. He was a time jumper.
I should point that out. Time had no meaning in this one.
The year was 1804, he went to.

Speaker 1 Started a new life of murder, and he did.

Speaker 1 He then killed a dinosaur. Oh, he sure did.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 more people are dying.

Speaker 1 More sex workers. How many more are there? We're right now at about five.

Speaker 2 Karen Karen D. Kilpatrick, 32, was killed in 1994.
Irene Smith, 25, was also in 1994.

Speaker 2 Both women were strangled. Both were sex workers.

Speaker 2 Police still had no way of connecting these crimes, but there was a homicide detective named Steve Spagnola, Spignola, who was set on finding the person.

Speaker 2 And in 1995, April 24th, Florence McCormick's body was found in a shitty basement on Locust Street.

Speaker 1 It sounds like he's killing ladies whose names start with Mick.

Speaker 2 I don't think that tracks in my stuff.

Speaker 1 You just fucking solved this case. I'm putting Shiva.
Shavi together.

Speaker 1 The Scottish killer.

Speaker 2 Wait, he's Scottish too?

Speaker 1 Mick's part of it.

Speaker 1 I'm fucking thrown out theories. Let's put shit on the board.
Sure. Is there a board?

Speaker 2 I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 yeah, McCormick's body was found. She was tied up on a sink.
Her hair was neat. Fingernails suggested no struggle.
Her socks were clean, which I'm not sure what that means, but that was pointed out.

Speaker 1 How did they think that her socks were clean? Well, like she wasn't walking around outside or something?

Speaker 2 I guess. They make it sound like that is like how they know she was murdered, but

Speaker 1 Vogel's over there in the corner just smelling her socks.

Speaker 1 I have never worn. These are good.
Vogels. I have never worn clean socks in my life.
That's what I was thinking.

Speaker 1 If someone buys me the clean socks, something's fucking wrong.

Speaker 2 But like, that means that

Speaker 2 when we die, people will be like, it's a murder.

Speaker 1 Their socks are filthy.

Speaker 2 Which is just going to mean that I was wearing a cup.

Speaker 1 What does a filthy sock mean? I don't know.

Speaker 2 look, that's for you guys. That's for you guys.

Speaker 1 I'm merely a shepherd at this. By the way, wait until there's some take-home stuff.
Oh, yeah. It's under your seats.

Speaker 2 Um okay, so Spignola uh didn't think that uh there was i it was no sexual activity, there was no semen on the body, there was no semen around the body, which he thought uh was possible because sometimes uh the killer uh may masturbate near the body.

Speaker 2 Her body was posed, it was bound, uh but they thought there was some level of comfortability between the two because it seemed like there was little struggle for this.

Speaker 2 So they thought that he was like, hey, you know, let me bind you and we'll kill Kinky. No, I don't think he threw that part out there.

Speaker 2 Maybe I'll tell.

Speaker 2 1995, two months after the murder, McCormick Sheila Ferrier was discovered six blocks away in Titonia. Also a sex worker, also in an empty apartment, this time strangled by her own brazier.

Speaker 2 Posed, crack pipes, crack cleaner, pipe cleaners, just a lot of crack, a good scene.

Speaker 1 So it's a crack house.

Speaker 2 It's an empty apartment where crack was smoked.

Speaker 1 But pipe cleaners, like for crafts? For crack. For cracks.

Speaker 1 No one's doing crafts.

Speaker 2 People are doing crack, which can lead to crafts, but I don't believe that that was the direct implication, no. Okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So at this point, there's like...

Speaker 2 There were vision boards everywhere.

Speaker 2 I'm glad we could do this.

Speaker 1 At this point, there's like seven dead women all found in abandoned apartments, and they're like strangled, and they're like, I don't see a connection.

Speaker 2 Cops are like, man, something's going on, huh? You hungry?

Speaker 1 Let's get lunch. You know what? I would say this was the same killer, but the socks are different.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Look at these socks are filthy.

Speaker 2 Then they actually finally got a DNA sample.

Speaker 2 They didn't really know for who, but on August 30th, 1995, there was the body of a 16-year-old runaway named Jessica Payne, who was found with her throat slit.

Speaker 2 How was she found? The two young boys went to an abandoned mattress that they normally used as a makeshift trampoline. Normal.
However, a normal, just kids stuff.

Speaker 1 That's just boys jumping. Go find a mattress.
You got to play with garbage. Yeah, go find a mattress.
As a kid? Go and jump on a little refuse, you scamps.

Speaker 2 But this day they weren't getting a bunch of bounce like normal. And the reason was because Jessica Payne's body was underneath it.
Oh, no.

Speaker 2 As I said, this time there was an appearance of sexual activity.

Speaker 1 Those boys are fine now. The boys are fine.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 there was semen present. They had some DNA.
They still couldn't connect it to anybody, but they thought that this might be related. A guy named Richard Gwynn was in jail.

Speaker 2 He started implicating himself and two others, this guy Sam Hadaway, Chot Oate.

Speaker 2 Sure.

Speaker 2 They told

Speaker 2 Gwynn told police he was driving. He was in the car with Hadaway, Ott, and Jessica Payne.

Speaker 2 He parked in front of an abandoned residence where they remained in his vehicle conversing, listening to the radio, drinking alcohol, and smoking marijuana, just fun car games.

Speaker 2 And Gwen said at some point, Hadaway, Ott, and Payne exited the vehicle, walked to an alley,

Speaker 2 and then Hadaway returned to the car, followed by Ott five minutes later.

Speaker 2 When Gwen asked about Payne's whereabouts, Hadaway said that they had to rob Payne, but her pockets were empty, so Ott just cut her throat.

Speaker 2 Hadaway confirmed Gwen's story. providing further detail about the murder and that Ott cut Payne's throat.

Speaker 2 Hadaway described the situation, and when he searched for her pockets, he found nothing, so he pushed her down on the mattress, pulled down her pants, pulled pulled up her shirt, and tried to force her way in.

Speaker 2 But Hadaway said he didn't actually see that because he turned away. But when he turned back around, he heard choking and gagging to see that Payne's throat was cut and that blood was gushing out.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 David? I don't know. Oh, okay, you're just reacting like a human.
I get it. Fucking.
As you should. Just bumming.
You know,

Speaker 1 just bumming out. Just bumming out.
Like, again, my guy died.

Speaker 2 So, 1995, the police found a search warrant for Ott's home. They found two box cutters and a knife among his possession.

Speaker 2 That was really all the evidence that they had, but Ott was sentenced to life in prison with parole available in 50 years. The main evidence in the trial was the two box cutters.

Speaker 2 The police.

Speaker 1 But that sounds nothing like the other ones. Weird, right?

Speaker 2 Scared.

Speaker 2 So, DNA evidence started being used in 1990. Wisconsin fully came around to 2015 to really collecting DNA from everybody.

Speaker 1 Sorry,

Speaker 2 1990 is where most places started collecting a database of violent criminals. Wisconsin finished it in 2015.

Speaker 1 So just a mere 25 years.

Speaker 2 Yes, just a mere difference.

Speaker 2 Is that an issue for you?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 just for a lot of us, yeah.

Speaker 2 So now the police felt that they had DNA that they had found at that scene. So they now had DNA from a number of women.

Speaker 2 They had DNA from the woman in 1986, two in 95, one in 97, and the latest, there were no more murders until April 27th, 2007.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 When Quithrine Stokes, 28, was found strangled by city inspectors after they were going to inspect a vacant, boarded-up residence.

Speaker 2 They found DNA at this scene, and now police had the DNA from the two women in 86, 97, all that, 2007, and it all matched to one person. But the police couldn't figure out who it was.

Speaker 2 Since the DNA matched nothing in their databases, they knew they were dealing with someone that had never been convicted of a violent crime before, which is curious.

Speaker 2 So, two detectives of the Milwaukee Department homicide unit re-examined the DNA linked to the suspect, and they believe they found him. So, on September 7th, 2009, Walter E.

Speaker 2 Ellis of Milwaukee was arrested at noon at a hotel by a swarm of police officers. Ellis was booked on a temporary felony warrant, was being questioned by the police.

Speaker 2 They took a DNA sample from his place off his toothbrush, and they had a match.

Speaker 2 He was even matched for the two murders that men were already serving sentences for.

Speaker 1 Ooh. So.
Awkward.

Speaker 2 Here's what's crazy awkward.

Speaker 1 Not good.

Speaker 2 They should have had his DNA because it wasn't from a lack of opportunities. He was convicted of a shitload of crimes.
1978, felony burglary. 79 drug charges.
80 robbery. 81 controlled substance.

Speaker 2 81 again possession with intent to distribute. 85 soliciting and beating up two sex workers.
87 retail theft. 92 released for good behavior.
92 back in for violating that good behavior.

Speaker 2 94 stabbing his girlfriend with a screwdriver.

Speaker 1 Not the drink.

Speaker 2 95, battery for choking his girlfriend, 97 resisting arrest, 98 reckless injury. So he had a track.

Speaker 1 But hold on, when would they have gotten any DNA?

Speaker 2 Well, because they collected, they still collected DNA. They just didn't collect it from every violent criminal.
Are you having fun with me?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 the DNA was never asked for. But in 2001, police discovered that they actually had gotten his DNA.
Why? Or at least they had at one point. There was an issue.
His DNA matched nothing in their system.

Speaker 2 And they know that one of two things things happened. A Ellis convinced his cellmate to submit the DNA for him.

Speaker 1 Come on.

Speaker 2 Or B, it was lost in transfer to the Oshkosh Police Department who said they never received it.

Speaker 1 Wait a second.

Speaker 1 Is Oshkosh where Stephen Avery.

Speaker 1 Yep. Oh.
Is that also where they make the overalls?

Speaker 2 Yes. It's famous for two things now,

Speaker 1 which is cool.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure which is a bigger

Speaker 1 police department. This is the same fucking police department.
Well, it's the same.

Speaker 2 It's like the same region.

Speaker 1 Shut the fuck up.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they share a Walmart. It's real.

Speaker 2 Fuck. So had they done this in the 90s, like you mean places.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they would have stopped five to seven murders.

Speaker 2 They would have stopped one if they'd done it in 2001 when it was totally expected of them. So in 2008, an appeals court overturned Ott's conviction, the guy who they said cut the mattress murderer.

Speaker 2 They had a new trial with new DNA evidence. In 2009, they announced they would not seek a new trial.
Ott was freed. He served 13 years in prison for a murder he didn't commit.

Speaker 2 George Mule Jones died in prison April 30th, 2012, but it is not too sad because he was also a previous murderer. He just didn't do the one we talked about.

Speaker 1 Ellis was found.

Speaker 1 Okay, good, good, good.

Speaker 1 Am I doing good? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Ellis was found guilty of seven murders in total, but he was thought to have been guilty of nine. He was sentenced to seven life sentences in 2011, and here's the fucker.

Speaker 1 He died!

Speaker 2 He died in 2013. So he served two years.
These murders went from 1986 to 2007, and he was in for less than two years.

Speaker 1 How old was he?

Speaker 2 He was like in his 50s.

Speaker 1 Tell me he died painfully. Like he got shamed.
In a hospital.

Speaker 2 He was in a hospital.

Speaker 1 I want to point out that, though, even if they had had his DNA and put it through, they would have...

Speaker 1 Putting it through CODIS and actually checking that DNA, as we know, that like from the rape kits that are not tested, that doesn't mean he would have been caught.

Speaker 1 It's not like, oh, they should have if they had tested it and had his dna everything would have been fine like that's not the case so it's not like oh man who missed it but they could have you know started testing well yeah who knows that could have been a crazy 25-year waiting is also known as a fucking lunatic like they like everyone's like this how about this guy everyone's like he's crazy he lives like he lives right around every one of these murders let's not all assume that the that these systems that they have in place to catch people are like the end all be all like it takes a lot more than that and so like it doesn't mean that wouldn't like these seven women wouldn't have been killed.

Speaker 1 Right. You know what I mean? Yes.
Sorry to be a bummer.

Speaker 2 Between 1986 and 2007, 42 prostitutes were killed in Milwaukee. Only 31% of those cases have been solved.

Speaker 1 And they're great there.

Speaker 1 Shit. Again, mine wrapped up.
Super nice. I mean, well, first of all, it's always hard to go last.
Yeah. It's always hard to go last.
But then also, that was fucking rough. Yeah, dude.

Speaker 1 No, yes. Great job.
Yes, thank you. Great job.

Speaker 1 That's fucked up.

Speaker 1 How do you feel about it?

Speaker 1 Terrible.

Speaker 2 I really am like so shocked at how little they give a fuck. When you really find out how, it's like politics.

Speaker 2 But when you find out that they're really just worried about what people think over actually doing good, you're like, we're just fucked up.

Speaker 1 Well, that's something we run across in the DALP all the time, isn't it how much the FBI fucks up.

Speaker 1 Can I end with something? Just a personal story? Please. So

Speaker 1 my uncle,

Speaker 1 I lived in California. I grew up in Marin County.

Speaker 1 A little bit better, a little bit better than Petaluma.

Speaker 1 But my uncle was a huge drug dealer.

Speaker 1 That's way better than Petaluma.

Speaker 1 And at one point,

Speaker 1 the law was getting down on him, so he decided to move to Florida to get out of California because it was the local cops. And I went and we went to this big

Speaker 1 going away party and he opened up a suitcase that was full of just fucking cash. And I was like 12 and I was like, that's cool.

Speaker 1 And then he left. And then all of his friends, the people that I had met at parties at his house, about 10 of them showed up in trunks

Speaker 1 all around Marin County. Dead body trunks?

Speaker 1 One after the other. Like chilling and like...
John's dead in a trunk. Barty's dead in a trunk.

Speaker 1 all of his friends got killed. And you're saying that's the FBI? Yes! That's insane!

Speaker 1 It wasn't the gang, drug dealer members that they were hanging out with. It couldn't have been them, or natural causes and just a weird burial.

Speaker 2 Good lord, there's theories, sir.

Speaker 1 If you're gonna take a nap in a trunk, it's not you. That's right.
It's suicide by suffocation. Yeah,

Speaker 1 I forgot to mention that they all, that they lived in trunks. Ah, well, that's a huge detail.

Speaker 1 Hey, here's some good news. No updates from either of those stories.
We don't ever have to talk about them again. Neither do Dave.
Neither does Dave. Neither does Derek.

Speaker 1 And we're not going to make this episode any longer than it already is because, you know, we've learned our lessons. Hey, listen.
Hey, four's too many. So now we're going to do the retitling part.

Speaker 1 This episode was originally called Live at the Orpheum. But if we were naming it today, perhaps we would call it That's My Madonna.

Speaker 1 That's My Madonna. That's my movement.

Speaker 1 That's my my madonna she said fuck on cnn and she was when i saw her i wasn't in the streets that day i was at home crying and yeah exhausted but so thrilled to see what i was seeing and then at the pinnacle of all of it there's madonna on cnn being like fuck this guy yeah amazing

Speaker 1 oh there's also the title also vintage which was when georgia was introducing her story uh she said mine is also vintage after the la ripper and then i just did it again on the rewind episode so I have no new jokes.

Speaker 1 I'm just keep reusing them. Listen.
And then it could also be called A 10 is Talking.

Speaker 1 I love that. That was a good one.
All you fives better listen when a 10 is talking. That was my favorite sign with Ruth Bader Ginsburg's picture, but it's a ripoff from a 30 rock joke.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's right. Yeah.
And we don't have to say goodbye. We've realized because we already say goodbye in the episode.
So we're going to let those girls from 2017 rightfully say their own goodbyes.

Speaker 1 So thanks for listening, Rewind. That's right.

Speaker 1 You guys, will you please help us thank Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds

Speaker 1 and Medalica?

Speaker 1 We appreciate it so much.

Speaker 1 Thank you all for coming here. This has been an amazing night.

Speaker 1 Hey, you guys, stay sexy. And don't get shired.
Don't get it. Bye.

Speaker 1 No one brings out your inner monster like a bad neighbor.

Speaker 1 Claire Danes and Matthew Reese find that out for themselves in The Beast in Me, a new eight-episode drama from the team that brought you homeland. Danes plays Aggie Wiggs, a grieving writer.

Speaker 1 Reese plays Niall Jarvis, her new neighbor and possible murderer. But who's the monster and who's the bad neighbor? That's another story.

Speaker 1 It's a game of cat and mouse that sets them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The Beast and Me, now playing only on Netflix.
You will not want to miss this. Goodbye.
Goodbye.

Speaker 1 This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Okay, let's talk holiday shopping.
From now through December 8th, you can get 20% cash back when you pay in four with PayPal. No fees, no interest.

Speaker 1 See PayPal.com slash promo terms subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com slash payin4, PayPal Inc, NMLS 910-457.
Goodbye. Goodbye.

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Speaker 1 From their award-winning foundation to their nourishing skincare line, Crunchy is raising the bar. It's so true.

Speaker 1 So I've been putting on more makeup than I ever have in my life because we've been doing videos and live shows.

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Speaker 1 I'm actually wearing makeup that's good for my skin and makes my skin look better instead of hiding all the imperfections, which is usually what I use makeup for, honestly.

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Bye-bye.

Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 53: Live at The Orpheum

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Transcript

More episodes from My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

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