Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 51: A Bit of Oblivion

Transcript

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Speaker 1 It's a game of cat and mouse that sets them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The Beast and Me, now playing only on Netflix.
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Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. This is a show where we recap our old episodes and we bring you all new case updates and insights and all the news that's fit to print.

Speaker 1 And this is actually the last episode that we recorded in my old apartment, the OG, my favorite murder studios. It's kind of bittersweet.
I mean, it was a really an era.

Speaker 1 We talk about it in this episode of how it's the end of an era. Definitely.
So this episode came out on January 12th, 2017. Let's listen to the intro of episode 51: A Bit of Oblivion.

Speaker 1 It sounds like scary. Bless the Ryan's down in Africa.
What's that one? It does.

Speaker 1 Wait.

Speaker 1 Steven, it's good.

Speaker 1 What if it has like seven quarters? Seven

Speaker 1 and he's just beatboxing over it.

Speaker 1 Hold up.

Speaker 1 Steven,

Speaker 1 I love it.

Speaker 1 How many minutes long is this?

Speaker 1 It just fades out.

Speaker 1 Steve, put that up on something. My face is burning.

Speaker 1 I love it.

Speaker 2 I miss making music, so it was just like, oh my gosh. And I'm moving.

Speaker 1 Of course he did. Heard a thing that we wanted.
And he's like, not us, but like in life. This is why you're going to fucking rule the world.

Speaker 1 I'm very rich. Karen, I'm very.

Speaker 1 Did you guys talk about that?

Speaker 1 No. I have no idea what's going on.
But I wish you could see that from

Speaker 1 my point of view, how insane that was. Stephen, that's great.
Stephen, you've done it. You did it.
Stephen, you've really done it.

Speaker 1 Now, in the breakdown part where you're really kind of getting into it and you're really singing,

Speaker 1 what was going through your head in that part when you were recording it?

Speaker 2 I just, like, the samba part, and I was like, well, if I got to make this an actual cover. So I just kind of vamped on the.

Speaker 2 I didn't think of inventing new lyrics or anything.

Speaker 1 No, but I'm saying, like, you did, but you really went for an extended part where you kind of got emotional at the end. Yeah, it's fun.
I don't know. I just kind of want to just let it out.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You just let out your feelings.

Speaker 1 Well, thank you so much. I love it.

Speaker 1 Thanks.

Speaker 1 All right. Episode 51.
Play it again.

Speaker 1 They're going to just make him play it over and over again.

Speaker 1 Episode 51, the one they play it over and over and over again. I just wanted like verse after verse after verse where he's just like, I started working for them.

Speaker 1 And then there's the, there's the like, yeah, there's like the breakdown where it's like Elvis is meow and it's like breaking it down.

Speaker 1 That's good. You're so red right now, Steven.
You're the color of your red beanie. And I love it.
It's cute. And I love it, Steven.

Speaker 1 Hey, this is my favorite murder.

Speaker 1 Welcome to my favorite murder.

Speaker 1 What's up? Hi. Hi.
That's Karen. That's Georgia.
This is my favorite murder. Do you like murder? You come to the right place.
Do you not like murder? Go away. Give it a try.
Oh, go. Give it a try.

Speaker 1 I mean, who knows? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Everybody thinks they don't like murder. Oh, my God.
Until you hear a real good story about it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Everyone thinks they, I hate that when they're like, you're creepy like murder. And like, well, I have this really interesting story.
You're like, everyone fucking loves murder.

Speaker 1 People love a good story. Come on, man.

Speaker 1 Don't judge us. Uh-uh.
This is just like Steven's theme song. Don't judge it until you get all the way through to the emotional.
Twice. Yeah.
You should listen to it twice for sure.

Speaker 1 Listen to this podcast twice, please. And then stare at us while our face gets red.
I was listening to the last episode. I don't listen to a lot of episodes anymore because it's just hard.

Speaker 1 But I was listening to the last one just for quality control. And I was cleaning the house and I just started, I had my earphones in and Vince was like doing another thing.

Speaker 1 And I just started cracking up so loudly at some point with something that we talked about.

Speaker 1 And it's like partly, it's funny, but it's also like, I'm laughing at how, like, how fun our friendship is and like these things. Like, it's funny to me because I know what's going on.

Speaker 1 And he was like, are you okay? And I had to take out my headphones and be like, I'm laughing at my own podcast.

Speaker 1 Sorry. Have you ever had the thing where your podcast starts? Like, I never close windows on my phone correctly.

Speaker 1 So if I'm listening to our podcast in the car and then I'll walk in somewhere somewhere and then, like, in the grocery store, our podcast will start. So it's like me and my own podcast standing there

Speaker 1 trying to press, like, the harder you touch it, the more it won't go off. Yeah.
That's happened a couple of times.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 We've all been pretty embarrassed. We're all stupid idiots, and it's fine.
Look how far we've come. Way to go.

Speaker 1 Way to go, everybody.

Speaker 1 We did it together.

Speaker 1 So this is episode 51, and my bags are packed, and and I'm ready to go. And this is the last episode.
I mean, it doesn't matter to anyone, like we're just voicing. It matters to us, though.
It does.

Speaker 1 This is the last episode in the place where we have recorded, I was going to say filmed, recorded 51 episodes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and it's going to wherever we do it in your apartment, in your new apartment, is going to have a completely different feel

Speaker 1 and vibe as opposed to this beautiful sea foam green, kind of like retro

Speaker 1 situation that we've been in cozy and homey there's no like hard angles

Speaker 1 no i don't know what that means but

Speaker 1 it's like my apartment that i've been in and i i can't like normally like you'll do you'll record stuff and you're like my apartment or yours like let's go to mine mine's in my like you'll do it back and forth and you'll go places but this is every single fucking except for live ones that's right i've been in this apartment it's always been here thank you for that thank you for opening your home like leaving my house yeah it works out good in that way i gotta wear and also if we did it at my house, it would just be 45 seconds, every 45 seconds barking.

Speaker 1 Well, that would, then people would make memes of your dogs, Frank and George barking instead of Elvis screaming his fucking ass. Yeah, I don't know.
It wouldn't be as good. No.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, it's the end of an era. It's also 2017, so good.
Like new things. It's all about new energies, limital space, what we've talked about already.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 What can come out of being in a totally new spot? Yeah, vibes are involved, probably. I bet vibes are totally involved.
Like good ones, I hope. Um, well, we'll see, we'll see.

Speaker 1 And if not, then we'll move. Then you have to get a new apartment

Speaker 1 or move back into this apartment. Oh my god,

Speaker 1 I'm sad. I'm gonna miss this place.
Vince proposed to me right there.

Speaker 1 Shit, yeah,

Speaker 1 take a picture before you go. It wasn't a great proposal, though, so it's okay.

Speaker 1 Should we edit that out? Snip that part. No, he fucking knows.
No, I'm gonna make it. I mean, he, yeah, no,

Speaker 1 No. No.

Speaker 1 He had fucking, he had stomach flu. It wasn't a great.

Speaker 1 All right. So I cried.
You weren't in the hot air balloon like you wanted to be. Well, it was basically in a hot air balloon, but it was.
Oh my God. Okay.

Speaker 1 Hey, what's, what's, what's crappin' in? What, uh, corner. Did you watch Meneta's Brothers? Nope.

Speaker 1 It's fucked up. It was good.
Was it? Yeah. It was just like a, it was like an hour-long thing about the trial and the murder and stuff.
Some people are saying it was amazing.

Speaker 1 Would you use the word amazing? No, it was like an extended 2020 episode. What new information was revealed that I wouldn't have known in 19, what was it, 96?

Speaker 1 Well, none. Oh.
But you'd look at it from a new angle. And my angle that I looked at from which I thought was interesting is like

Speaker 1 they,

Speaker 1 The Menendez brothers argued that the dad was molesting them. Right.
But then went in like this crazy other direction of how the mom was molesting them too.

Speaker 1 And he molested, like it got crazy, but you could, you could kind of tell the little part that was actually true in my mind. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the stuff that they just exaggerated from them trying to play on that. And if they had just gone with the part that was true, which I think maybe the dad was molesting them,

Speaker 1 but they were also sociopaths, then maybe they wouldn't have gotten such extreme sentences.

Speaker 1 That was your theory, or did they talk about it? That's my theory. Oh,

Speaker 1 Did they talk about those wigs at all? Yeah, I didn't know. For real? He had a toupee.
Yeah. I didn't know that.
And he was so young. Did they have a toupee?

Speaker 1 One of the brothers, who they both just look like,

Speaker 1 they both look like mad magazine characters. But it was Lyle had the toupee, right? Yeah.
The older brother. The older brother had toupee.
Older brother said he molested the younger brother. Oh, no.

Speaker 1 In court and apologized. And when you see their faces when they're, when supposedly they're telling the truth, it's so different when they're than when they're lying.
Really? That's what I like.

Speaker 1 I would say watch it just for the testimony alone. Okay.
It's so interesting to see.

Speaker 1 They seem like such creepy fucking narcissistic sociopaths, which I know everyone hates that we, when we use those terms because, but they seem creepy and lying and it's full of shit until there's this one part that could be true.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. And then it's like.
Like it just resonates where you're looking at it.

Speaker 1 You're going, I don't think this person is doing the thing he was just doing with that other bullshit they they're broken all of a sudden and then they're back to normal and it's like they're just like lying

Speaker 1 i mean look i get it would make sense because it's one thing like killing your parents uh so that you can have money is one thing but like machine gunning down your parents or whatever didn't they have some crazy gun yeah and the other thing about that too is that like if they had just done it to their father they might have gotten a pretty lenient sentence if they had said like he was molesting us for years and we were traumatized right but they like kind of chased down the mom yeah and everyone was like that part to them was like how could you kill your mother and so they made up this i think they made up the story about the mom molesting them too when really i think they were just pissed off that she never cared or did anything about it right it's just really it's it's i mean this is all made up obviously but yeah it's your theory is all my theory right right right but it's based on you've listened to one million podcasts about it and watched a million crime shows about it.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 there was also the thing of how that father, Jose, was just a big fucking bully. And so it was like she was bullied herself.
But yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's ugly. The whole thing is ugly.
There's definitely no clear lines except for the fact that, yeah, you just.

Speaker 1 Here's the thing: you murder them, but then you just go on a fucking spending spree.

Speaker 1 I mean, they just didn't do anything right. No, not at all.

Speaker 1 I I guess I don't like that one because

Speaker 1 it's just greed. I hate the greed-based ones.
There's a lot that I don't, of those that I don't like until I watch something a little more interesting about them and then like them.

Speaker 1 And this is one of them where, like, I didn't give a shit. We just happened to catch it and then I liked it.
So it must have been produced kind of well. Yeah.
No, it was done really well.

Speaker 1 It was just like wasn't,

Speaker 1 you know, one of the like Jean Bonnet ones.

Speaker 1 And we are back. We're back.
And the song was Africa by Toto. That's right.
One of the greats. How did we not know that? I mean, a legendary song.
Also, it's just so funny.

Speaker 1 Stephen was such a gigantic part of the show. And it's so funny looking back on these episodes where it's like, Stephen wrote a song for us.

Speaker 1 Where it's just like the third host. Totally.
Like we were a little family. Yeah.
We love you, Stephen. We love you, Stephen.
Also, I want to clarify something.

Speaker 1 I say in the episode, because we're moving out of the apartment, that Vince's proposal was, quote, bad.

Speaker 1 I don't mean bad. I mean, like, I don't know what

Speaker 1 this is what happens when you record personal conversations and distribute them to the public.

Speaker 1 Essentially, he was supposed to propose to his plan was to propose to me in downtown Las Vegas, where we love to hang out. And he got.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, are you saying your plan was what he was supposed to propose to you in downtown Las Vegas? No, he literally made this plan. We were going to Vegas that evening.
He got the stomach flu.

Speaker 1 I had to take him to urgent care.

Speaker 1 On the way back, he was like the sweating and kind of flu. Maybe he was just nervous.
But we walk into our apartment and he comes out of the kitchen.

Speaker 1 And I guess in his mind, he was like, fuck it, I'm just going to do it anyways

Speaker 1 and proposed. And I was not expecting it at all.

Speaker 1 I also had been proposed to in the past and it was really romantic and sweet. And it was a terrible relationship.
So I kind of was like, maybe this is good luck. Yeah.
You know, and for sure.

Speaker 1 Has been. So clearly.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, but those kinds of things I think are such a

Speaker 1 they're supposed to be this definitive moment. And then it's like, oh, here's the background.
It's supposed to have this playing and this doing and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 And also, I wonder if he had the stomach flu, did they give him a shot or could he have been a little high on some sort of a medication? I don't think so. I don't know, but he was definitely sweating.

Speaker 1 And we're 12 years into our relationship, nine years into our marriage, and things are great.

Speaker 1 Also, one of the best weddings I've ever been to to this date. Yeah, we made up for it with the wedding for sure.

Speaker 1 Also, we're being very timely in this episode, or it would have been interesting to know back then how this topic of the Menendez brothers would just continue on into the future for the next decade for us.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and like change our minds in a lot of ways, too.

Speaker 1 The Monsters, the Lyle, and Eric Menendez story, which was the limited series, and then the Menendez Brother documentary, I think, did change my opinion a lot in this case for a lot of people.

Speaker 1 And I think you can see that by the fact that they're having a parole hearing at this point to see if they're eligible for parole, which, you know, wouldn't, wasn't at all possible back then.

Speaker 1 So it's, I think it's interesting.

Speaker 1 I mean, the idea that we really were, because of the, they call it the monoculture or whatever, we were just fed this kind of very singular story about these two rich brats and they really, what they did and then how they acted afterwards, very unsympathetic.

Speaker 1 But then because it was basically on TV,

Speaker 1 everyone watched it as if it was TV and then formed these opinions or were told their opinion. It's weird to look back on that.
Yeah. To be able to.
I'm glad we have a little more nuance nowadays

Speaker 1 to this sort of thing. Or at least that there's just more people in the conversation than whoever's cutting tape at the local news station.
Totally.

Speaker 1 And the conversation isn't like, it's not the mom knew or the mom didn't know. The boys did it or they didn't do it.
It's like,

Speaker 1 you can be multiple things. You don't have being a perfect victim isn't actually a thing.
No. And I'm glad we are acknowledging that these days.

Speaker 1 And also, I think our opinions from the beginning of this podcast, it was like absolutely very black and white for me.

Speaker 1 Just going in and being like, nope, people should, you know, go to jail forever or whatever, the kind of things that we would talk about so casually,

Speaker 1 thinking there was 50 people listening, and then really getting educated over the years of like

Speaker 1 the truth of it and the reality and the day-to-day of all of that stuff. I mean, watching that, Chloe Sauvigne, her performance in that fucking show, Monsters, is so good, amazing.

Speaker 1 And then the idea that that could be the truth about that mom, right? Right. Horrifying.
Yeah, that show was incredible. All right.
Well, should we get into your story? Let's do it.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's listen to Karen's story about Jennifer Jennifer Holiday.

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Speaker 1 This week I wanted to get back to the thing I like to do the best, which is retail and I survive. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Which is a first-person show that does not use reenactments. Yay.

Speaker 1 But also, this is one of the ones, as I was writing this up, I realized

Speaker 1 when we've talked in the past about how I cannot listen to 911 calls, this is the one time that I've listened to a 911 call that it insanely enhanced the story.

Speaker 1 So it wasn't just like some lunatic person screaming in panic and like a horror thing that immediately makes you go, oh my God, everyone's in danger.

Speaker 1 It's like the perfect most, the fact that they even have it to run during the story is incredible. So anyway, I'll just tell you what it was.

Speaker 1 This is the, this is the attempted murder of Jennifer Holiday and the murder of Anna Franklin. And it happened in, this is from season two, episode six of I Survived.

Speaker 1 So anyway, I, if you haven't heard this, I love the show I Survived. It's now in reruns.
I I think it's on, they're rerunning it on Lifetime, but you can also get it on something else, whatever.

Speaker 1 I think they're also on YouTube.

Speaker 1 But I like to, every once in a while, remember ones that just stuck with me and talk about them because I do love a survivor and I love the first person.

Speaker 1 I do love a first person tale of insane horror. Does it make you like calm down a little bit?

Speaker 1 Because you know, like, whatever bad happens, like, you can still get back to the person and they're not dead. They're not fucking dead.
Yeah. So it's like okay to be into it.
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 You're not going straight down like we do at the end of an episode sometime where we're just like, oh, great. I got murdered.
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 This is, no matter what's happening, you're going, you're still looking at the person. It's like triumphant, you know, that.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 And a lot of the time, because it's, I would say, 80% women telling these stories and they're telling you stories where you're like, holy fucking shit. And they're telling you,

Speaker 1 you know, just fine, telling you the story of this thing that happened, that they survived, that they've gotten through, and they're there to tell you that story.

Speaker 1 And yeah, like you're like, I would never get out of a fetal position if this happened to me. And they're like, Yes, you would.
And

Speaker 1 you can fucking deal with it.

Speaker 1 And that, because that's life, and life goes on, and everybody does, like, not everybody does this, but the people who experience extreme trauma continue to live and sometimes even flourish afterwards.

Speaker 1 So I like this one too, because it's fucking exactly like a 70s horror movie. It is, I, when you see it and you hear it, and I recommend that you watch it.

Speaker 1 Are they at camp? It's not at camp anymore. No, but kind of close.
It's like that feel. So basically it's this.
It's

Speaker 1 May 25th, 2005, and Jennifer, sorry, May 29th, 2005, Jennifer Holiday is driving

Speaker 1 down Highway 69 and near, it's just north of Lufkin, Texas with her 17-year-old cousin, Anna Franklin.

Speaker 1 They're in an SUV going 70 miles an hour, and all of a sudden, there's the fucking loudest bang in the world. She doesn't even know what happened.

Speaker 1 They pull, there's glass and blood everywhere all of a sudden, and they pull over, and her cousin starts screaming, and she looks down, and her left arm has been shot.

Speaker 1 She's been shot through the window of her car, and her left arm is almost severed, like

Speaker 1 right above the elbow. Holy fuck.
So her cousin, her cousin's losing her shit, of course, and she's, and she is an EMT. Fuck yeah.

Speaker 1 And she goes super calm and is like, pull out your phone, call 911 right now.

Speaker 1 You know, basically, is like, calm down, stop screaming, whatever. Yeah.

Speaker 1 What they don't realize is there was a man who was driving next to them, and he was the one who shot at them.

Speaker 1 And he pulls over and he walks up to the open driver's side window, reaches in past Jennifer, grabs the phone out of Anna's hand and just tosses it away and he's laughing. And she says,

Speaker 1 right then, she was like, I got real scared. And

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 1 he basically

Speaker 1 he backs up. He's got a shotgun in his hands.
And they're both just kind of staring at him. He like takes a couple steps backwards, picks up the shotgun

Speaker 1 and just shoots into the car and jennifer said in the in this show

Speaker 1 she sees it's like a tracer where she sees the bullet go by her face like it just goes right by the front of her face

Speaker 1 and and shoots anna in the head and kills her

Speaker 1 wait this is the older chick or the younger one the younger chick gets shot in the head and killed

Speaker 1 it's her cousin so oh my god so then he pulls jennifer out of the car and she's like what the fuck is going on?

Speaker 1 Her arm is like hanging off. And he puts her into his car.
Jesus. And they start driving up the highway.
This is a fucking Mary Vincent tale all over again.

Speaker 1 It's fucking, it's insane, but it's also this kind of thing where it's like, you can see it, like shot.

Speaker 1 You can see it shot all grainy in like eight millimeter where you're like, what the fuck? And it's like when she tells the story, it's like the guy's laughing. It's stuff where you're like, who?

Speaker 1 What state is this or what county? Texas. It's north of Lufkin, Texas.
Okay. I don't know what the county is.

Speaker 1 We are in what part of Texas is. Apparently, it's a big place.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 they are just driving like 90 miles an hour out of town. They drive and drive.
So now she says there's no one around. There's no lights.
There's no houses. There's no one anywhere.
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 And at one point, he pulls her out of the car.

Speaker 1 He pulls over, pulls her out of the car, pulls her into the woods, and rapes her.

Speaker 1 Then, then when he's finally done and he's like ripped all her clothes off and everything, he does the thing where he's like, all of a sudden, then he starts crying. Yeah.
Then he

Speaker 1 looks at her and goes, oh my God, you're bleeding. What happened? What?

Speaker 1 And then he starts laughing. And she realizes, okay, this person.
is either on drug, like something is seriously fucking wrong with this guy. And I need to get myself out of here.

Speaker 1 So she fucking comes up with this plan. And this is the part where we're like, this is why you fucking hang in through the commercial and you're like, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 Well, this is so interesting too, because like, it's not like she's just like, I don't know what this guy's capable of. She just, she knows her cousin is dead back in the fucking car.

Speaker 1 She knows what this dude is capable of. There's no like, she knows there's no fucking.

Speaker 1 She knows we're in, we're in complete emergency mode and something must be done.

Speaker 1 And she sees his weakness. That's the thing is that a person acting like that, she realizes there could be some play here.
She could do something about the situation that she's in.

Speaker 1 So, what she starts doing, and it's so fucking brilliant, is she starts, she's she, the way she says it, because she has her Texan accent.

Speaker 1 She's like, I start rubbing up on him and acting like I really like him and saying,

Speaker 1 basically, saying, Thank you for saving me.

Speaker 1 And you're so nice, and like being flirty and sweetie. And he immediately reacts and is like into it.

Speaker 1 So she's basically convinces him he didn't attack her. She's treating him like like the hero and saying, I can't believe you saved me from that man.
Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 You're my hero. And oh my God, I just want to, can we go back to your house? What the fuck? Because she's thinking in her head.
Yeah. They're in the front.

Speaker 1 Right now they're in the middle of fucking nowhere. There's not a person to be found.
There's not a light.

Speaker 1 So at least if he drives her to his house, there will be a phone or there will be at least one other person. Or a knife she can fucking stab in.
Some fuck something. Yeah.
Which is brilliant. Yes.

Speaker 1 She's just like, get me out of this spot now and also clearly you're on drugs or something's going on with you where you can be manipulated she fucking goes for it and it works he gets her back into the car

Speaker 1 and he's like I can drive you to my house, but here's the thing. Don't do, don't be bad and don't do what the bad people do because you'll pay.
And this hint. And she's like, I won't.
I promise.

Speaker 1 Why would I? And she's, and she'd be like, I'm so grateful to you. You've helped me so much.
And he's like believing what she's saying. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 And then he would like look at her and be like, oh my God, you're covered in blood. she'd be like i know i need help really badly and so she's basically doing this they get to his house

Speaker 1 he turns down the road into a cemetery oh

Speaker 1 i mean if you

Speaker 1 wrote this it'd be like change the cemetery part that's crazy just go to a house

Speaker 1 they're driving into

Speaker 1 an old cemetery she's like shit she's sit naked covered in blood and like what the where are we going oh my God.

Speaker 1 They go down a hill a little bit, and there's like two trailers on either side, and one of them is his. So they go down into this kind of thing past the cemetery, and this is where, where he lives.

Speaker 1 Sounds chill.

Speaker 1 So that's where I'm moving. I didn't tell you that.
This is my new spot. That's your new spot? Good, good.
Because just for like, just to be around. Shits and gigs, man.
Right, right. Good plan.

Speaker 1 So he takes her into the house and he actually lets her use the phone. No.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's like, he, she's convinced him it has worked and he now believes that he helped her. Oh my God.
So here's the fucking 911 call part. Oh my god, you have it.
Yes.

Speaker 1 It is, you have to watch this episode because

Speaker 1 she

Speaker 1 no, dude. She is so calm and she's like, hi.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I got shot and this man helped me so much. He is sitting right here in front of me and he helped me so much.

Speaker 1 And I just, I really need help and he, and I need someone to come and help me because but this man helped me and saved me and the woman's like ma'am did you say you were shot and she's like yeah yeah yeah and i need help and so she's doing this thing where the words she's saying don't match her tone of voice and the woman on the other line it only takes her like three exchanges and she's like what the so it go the woman goes are you saying you were shot she's like yeah and i need help and this man helped me so much this man right here in front of me and then she goes ma'am are you not from around here and she goes no uh-uh uh-uh and he and he's here so i'm safe with him i'm here with him and i need you to send me an ambulance because i'm bleeding really bad and then she hears the 911 operator

Speaker 1 someone else says something where it's like that shooting

Speaker 1 And then she gets back on the phone. She said, and she, the 911 operator, I can't remember how it goes exactly, but it's basically like, she goes,

Speaker 1 the woman says something. She goes, did you say there's like something about a shooting? And she goes, She goes, Uh-huh.
Uh-huh. He's here right now, and he's helping me so much.
It's that one.

Speaker 1 It's the same one. Uh-huh.
And she basically is like,

Speaker 1 telling her

Speaker 1 in this like super pleasant voice, giving her these signals without letting on to the crazy man literally sitting in front of her.

Speaker 1 That the shooter is sitting fucking in front of her. Isn't it crazy that if he were a little less crazy, this wouldn't have worked? Right.
You know what I mean? Yes.

Speaker 1 Like if whatever angel dust or fucking thing he was on, but he actually, the way she played it, and when you hear her, this 911 call, you understand how it worked because she's not, I'm actually doing too much energy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. She's like, almost kind of like chill like this, where it's like, yeah, I just need, and uh-huh, uh-huh.
Yep, that's it. Yeah.
And doing that

Speaker 1 fucking thing.

Speaker 1 So oh my God. Oh my God.
So she says, just seen an ambulance or whatever. So she can't, they can't figure out where she is because it's not like a trace, whatever.

Speaker 1 He ends up getting on the call. No.

Speaker 1 And they have that 911, that portion of the 911 call. No.
Where he's giving the 911 operator directions to his house. How the fuck does he not know? Like, how does that happen?

Speaker 1 Because he was out of his fucking mind on drugs. He was on drugs and drunk.

Speaker 1 But I think it's the drugs and maybe something else. He had

Speaker 1 a crazy

Speaker 1 rap sheet. He had been in jail a ton of times, lots of fucking domestic violence.
He had gotten into, his girlfriend had left him that night. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 And he got drunk at a bar and he said he did like Xanax or Paxlores, like one single thing where I'm like, dude, you were on fucking angel dust. It's like Tuesday for me, man.
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 so anyway,

Speaker 1 the part of the recording, he's talking to the operator, saying how they should get to his house and then going, Yeah, and she's bleeding real bad. I mean, I got blood all over me, too.

Speaker 1 And I saved her, and I don't know. Like, you need to get someone here really fast.
Like, he's completely been convinced. Jesus.
And she goes, Well, is she doing okay?

Speaker 1 And she's the 91 operator is like, sweet as pie. You would never know that she's talking to anybody except for the nice man that saved this woman.

Speaker 1 So he says, only you can only have an ambulance, no cops. And she's like, no, of course not.
I only want an ambulance. I just need to get this blood off me and get this thing taken care of.

Speaker 1 I was like, okay. So then he gives her shorts and a shirt to put on so she doesn't have to walk outside naked.
Can you imagine being naked? Like naked too. It's like so vulnerable.

Speaker 1 Naked and covered in blood. Dude, it is total horror movie.
Yeah. She goes outside and she says, she's lost so much blood at this point.
And she's in the MT, so she knows. Yeah.
Like she knows.

Speaker 1 And she says she's walking out. She sees the ambulance.
So she's walking up this hill trying to get to the ambulance.

Speaker 1 And she's like, she goes, and I know I've lost so much blood because I can see the trees moving

Speaker 1 what it was was the fucking SWAT team in place

Speaker 1 and she gets like out of range and and he is walking outside behind her oh my gosh because he's like gonna see her to the fucking ambulance and then the second like the second he gets far enough outside the end the SWAT team just fucking goes down he fights them they take him down and they arrest him they don't kill him that's amazing no they take him down that's amazing

Speaker 1 you're not supposed to just go right but like you know you'd think he'd fight back and no he fought him but they that's arrested him good for them they arrested him

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 he gets

Speaker 1 oh it's two life sentences for capital murder um aggravated assault and kidnapping and when that show aired in 2007 she still had over 30 shotgun pellets lodged in her arm neck and chest two years later that she did the show then.

Speaker 1 Yes. That's fucking insane.
Yeah. And she still had like shotgun pellets inside her from these shotgun blasts that she survived.

Speaker 1 Fucking crazy. She had a son that she since then? No, no, no.
At the time, she was a single mother.

Speaker 1 And she said that she was thinking,

Speaker 1 like, what

Speaker 1 she was positive she was going to die in the cemetery house that she ended up at. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so the fact that when she got on that 911 call, she got to talk to this woman who got her shit, who got who like picked up on the game and fucked up. She didn't fucking say anymore.
Did it.

Speaker 1 And because it's like, basically, the cops had come up upon Anna's dead body in that car. Yeah, they knew a situation had happened.
Totally. And basically, everybody hooked it all together.

Speaker 1 It's like best case scenario. Totally.
For looking for this person, this girl is calling. Yes.
This is what this is. And then basically at the very end, Jennifer just says,

Speaker 1 I should have died that night. Like, it's a miracle of God that I lived.
And I just want to say this: it's not a fuck.

Speaker 1 God bless God. It's not a miracle of God because she was instinctually smart.
She fucking came up with a plan and she was brave enough to enact it and go for it and make it happen for herself.

Speaker 1 She did it. Like, she did it.
Yeah. And yes, it worked out good, best case scenario, but it's like, that's that's that's that's a survivor's instinct that she had and she did it for herself.

Speaker 1 I mean, yeah,

Speaker 1 yeah, that's insane. Yeah, I wonder where she is now.
Like, if she's gonna,

Speaker 1 what's she doing now? Where's her kid? He's gotta be proud of her, right? Yo, yeah, fuck, dude.

Speaker 1 Pretty good. It's a good one.
What's her name again? Her name is Jennifer Holiday. Okay.

Speaker 1 And her cousin who died, who was, she was like in her late 20s, but her cousin who died was 17 when it happened, Anna Franklin.

Speaker 1 Oh, honey.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. Right,

Speaker 1 Okay, we're back. Karen, any updates? How are you feeling about that? I mean,

Speaker 1 this story, I remember watching it real time, and it was so unbelievably horror movie creepy, what this woman went through and lived through, and of course, obviously survived, is unbelievable.

Speaker 1 So there are no updates for Jennifer Holiday's story.

Speaker 1 She's kept a low public profile, and I didn't cover this in the original story, but after the attack, she struggled with very serious health issues and regaining motor skills in her left arm.

Speaker 1 I mean, it was essentially blown off by a shotgun.

Speaker 1 She gave a 2007 interview with the Lufkin Daily News where she said,

Speaker 1 I still can't feel the back of my hand at all. I can't put my hand to my face.
I have no fine motor skills.

Speaker 1 And basically, once the CEO of Memorial Herman Hospital heard about Jennifer's story, and this is kind of insane.

Speaker 1 They covered all of her medical bills for a very important surgery she couldn't afford.

Speaker 1 And that restored movement to her elbow. So before that, she couldn't do basic stuff like tying her shoes.
And then after that, she could.

Speaker 1 So, I mean, that's kind of a really lovely silver lining in what is truly like watching a horror film. Totally.

Speaker 1 I still can't get over, and I talk about it in the episode when he takes her to his house and they drive through a cemetery to get to his house house behind the cemetery, where it's just like, you couldn't script this any worse.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 This is another thing she said to the Houston Chronicle. Jennifer Holiday said, quote, my sole goal in life is to get back somewhat as I was before.

Speaker 1 I know mentally and physically I'll never be able to go back to the job I used to have. I'll be able to do something, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 So, you know, being. the victim of an attack like that, traumatic and horrible enough as it is, but then all of the physical repercussions afterwards, Just like horrible.
Definitely.

Speaker 1 So glad to talk about her as a survivor because she really beat the odds on that one. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then we have another horrible story that I cover that does have a silver lining, even though it's just a tragic story.

Speaker 1 But we love the stories where laws are changed and where people, survivors, fight back. Yeah.
So let's get into it. This is George's story about Megan's law.

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Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 You ready for mine? I am. Mine's a bummer.
Get ready to be bummed.

Speaker 1 It's not a survivor story, but there is a positive ending to it. Something good happens out of it.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 Jesse Temendikos,

Speaker 1 he is born on April 15th in 1961 in Piscataway, New Jersey.

Speaker 1 He claims that his mother was promiscuous, a promiscuous alcoholic, had 10 children by seven different men, and that his dad was a violent drinker,

Speaker 1 and that his dad had sexually abused him and his brother all the time. And that they once saw their dad rape a seven-year-old girl what the fuck that's what they says they said

Speaker 1 um and that the father tortured and killed pets and that he once forced this guy jesse and his brothers to eat their pet rabbit what yeah

Speaker 1 um so in 1979 when this guy uh jesse temendikas is 18

Speaker 1 He persuades two five-year-old girls to go off with him in search of ducks is what he tells them.

Speaker 1 He took them by the hand and leads them towards an embankment. One of the girls fucking has some horrible feeling and takes off,

Speaker 1 leaves him with the other girl.

Speaker 1 A little five-year-old girl. Yeah, she's like, fuck this.
I'm going to get help. Jesus.
But the other girl, they get to the bottom of the hill by the brook. He knocks her down.

Speaker 1 He pulls her pants down.

Speaker 1 And right at that moment, the girl who ran away had got a neighbor and they run up and fucking find him.

Speaker 1 So Jesse pleads guilty to the attempted aggravated sexual assault. In exchange for pleading guilty,

Speaker 1 he gets a suspended sentence

Speaker 1 as long as he agrees to get counseling or to get counseling.

Speaker 1 He doesn't get it.

Speaker 1 And he's sent for as a

Speaker 1 punishment is sent for nine months to the Middlesex Adult Correctional Center. Nine months because he said no to fucking counseling.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So in 1981, he's out and he lures a seven-year-old girl into the woods. Don't go in the fucking woods with the promise of firecrackers.
Ma'am.

Speaker 1 And again, this girl's with a friend, and this friend is like, fuck this, and takes off on her bike.

Speaker 1 But while that's happening, Jesse takes the girl into the woods, strangles her until he thinks she's dead.

Speaker 1 And while he's running out of the woods, the girl who survived survived had gotten cops and they catch him.

Speaker 1 He pleads guilty to assault and is imprisoned in the Adult Diagnostic and Treatment Center in Avanel, New Jersey for 10 years, but he only gets six years. He's let out after that.

Speaker 1 And a therapist says that he thinks that

Speaker 1 he would eventually...

Speaker 1 So the therapist says that she thinks that he'll eventually commit another sex crime, but she doesn't think he'll commit murder. So let him fucking go after six years.

Speaker 1 So when he leaves this facility, he moves in to, he moves into a town.

Speaker 1 Where's the town name?

Speaker 1 Okay, he moves into Hamilton Township, New Jersey, into a house with two other sex offenders that he had met at the facility. What? Yep.
Their plan or like halfway house style. Their plan.
Dude.

Speaker 1 There's no halfway house style in the...

Speaker 1 They're out and free. Yeah, it's the early 90s.
Oh, there's no halfway house style so

Speaker 1 it's the early 90s. I was thinking it was like 70s.
I had

Speaker 1 kind of like oh he went in 1981. He goes in for six or seven years, so he moves out and so he's living at this time in Hamilton Township, New Jersey.

Speaker 1 One of the sex offenders he lived with named Brian Jennin,

Speaker 1 he had joined the Big Brothers so he could have access to young boys.

Speaker 1 So he gets out.

Speaker 1 The other one is Joseph

Speaker 1 Cifelli. He had been charged with carnal abuse and sodomy of a five-year-old girl and he pled guilty to three counts of impairing the morals of a minor.

Speaker 1 What kind of fucking

Speaker 1 impairing the morals? No, you're a fucking rapist. You're a rapist.
It's not.

Speaker 1 You're not fucking with the morals, man. You're like, okay.

Speaker 1 So across the street from their house and one house down and this street, I saw it on a video, it's a tiny street. It's like, it's a small neighborhood.

Speaker 1 And this is like a, this is a small town, you know, families, it's not a dangerous town. Right across the street lives

Speaker 1 the Kenka family. And part of that family was seven-year-old Megan.

Speaker 1 So on July 29th, 1994, Megan walks by his house on the way to a friend's house. and Jesse tells her, as he had done in other fucking times, that he has an animal to show her.

Speaker 1 He says that he has a puppy inside his house and wants to show her. And she goes with him into his room.

Speaker 1 He rapes her and sodomizes her

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 slams her head into the dresser. He puts plastic bags over her head so she won't bleed.
in his room and strangles her with a belt.

Speaker 1 And then he puts her body

Speaker 1 into a toy chest and dumps her in the nearby Mercer County Park. It's fucking horrifying.

Speaker 1 So that night, Megan's family's freaking out. There's a search for her.
Jesse participates in it, handing out flyers.

Speaker 1 They go to, the police go door to door.

Speaker 1 He tells them he had seen Megan riding her bicycle around 2.30 in the afternoon, but he also tells Maureen, Megan's mom, some other weird shit about seeing her before dinner. His story is weird.

Speaker 1 He's like nervous and sweating when he's telling these stories.

Speaker 1 Wait, I'm so sorry. He went to the mom and was like,

Speaker 1 the mom was like, have you seen them? And he was, you know, he was like, he wasn't keeping his own story straight. And he wasn't offering too much information.

Speaker 1 Okay. And so the next day, I guess one of the roommates

Speaker 1 had convinced him to confess. One of the roommates was like, you need to fucking confess.

Speaker 1 In the bowels of hell, they decide they're going to get fucking. This guy's like, I'm I'm fucking clean, man.
You need to get the fuck out of here.

Speaker 1 The next day, he goes and confesses to investigators, and he leads the police to Megan's body.

Speaker 1 He confesses to some of it, but not all of the aspects of the sexual assault. And so once the autopsy happened, the police were like, yeah, but here's more information.

Speaker 1 And he's like, okay, yeah, I did that too. Like, he's a fucking creeposoid and he knows, like, he's not.

Speaker 1 He's not crazy and he's not mentally impaired because he knows to keep this certain information from the cops. He knows that he should put a bag over her head so that blood won't get places because

Speaker 1 even though he had a really low self- I mean self-esteem He had a really low IQ but he he knew the things to hide something he was smart enough to cover his own fucking track right

Speaker 1 So there's uh so bloodstain hair fiber samples and also Megan had fucking fought back and there was a bite mark on Jesse's hand because she had fought really hard and he said that the reason he killed her was because

Speaker 1 she fought and he was scared she was going to tell her mom, which is utter fucking bullshit. So his trials in May of 1997.

Speaker 1 He's found guilty of purposeful or knowing murder, two counts of felony murder, first-degree kidnapping, and four counts of first-degree aggravated assault.

Speaker 1 And in June, he's sentenced to death. And in his statement, says, okay, I'm sorry for what I've done to Megan.
I pray for her and her family every day.

Speaker 1 I have to live with this and what I've done for the rest of my life. Yeah, it's very sad for you, Stephen.

Speaker 1 I ask you to let me live so I someday can understand and have an understanding why something like this could happen. Thanks.

Speaker 1 Wait, did he say thanks at the end? He said thanks at the end.

Speaker 1 Sorry, wait. His name is Stephen, right?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 I'm so sorry. Are you kidding? It's hilarious.
No, I swear. I just said, I just added Steven's name to that.
That's so fucking funny. So I'm sorry.
No. My full apology.
No, his name is Jesse Time.

Speaker 1 Oh, Jesse, that's right. Jesse Times.
Oh, my God. I'm so sorry.
Oh, Stephen. This is not Steven's episode.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 no. Okay.

Speaker 1 So, okay.

Speaker 1 We know, so we can just do narcissism off the checklist of like, all of a sudden, a young girl's rape and murder that he committed is sad for him.

Speaker 1 And I hope someday I can understand why this happened. Not why I did this even would be better.
You'll be right. Because it's such a mystery.
Yeah. Why did this happen? The thing I did.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Fully with my eyes open, knowing full well what was happening at the end of the day. Right.

Speaker 1 And this is when he starts to say that his dad had sexually abused him and was, you know, which is like horrifying if it's true, but it doesn't.

Speaker 1 I mean, so many people, like this happens to people and they

Speaker 1 don't go on to do these horrible things. They become better people.

Speaker 1 Or they don't become better people, but they don't molest children you know what i mean yes um also i've been thinking what year would menundez 94 93 something like that yeah i mean i'm just wondering if like because did you say this was 92 before or after he went to peak when he made that claim oh that was like 97.

Speaker 1 i mean i'm just saying that when those things get into like the popular culture here's what i need to say yeah

Speaker 1 like this is working yeah that kind of thing yes totally that i mean could have happened or whatever no i'm just saying that suddenly it's like this beat starts, starts to become a rationale. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, try this. You should try this defense.
Oh, Steven.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. Okay.
No, his name was Elvis.

Speaker 1 So, okay. So here's the positive on this horrifying story.
Yeah, because this is fucking rotten. I know.
So Michelle's parents, Richard and Maureen Kenka, go on a fucking crusade to change the law.

Speaker 1 They demand mandatory community notification of sex offenders.

Speaker 1 Megan's law. Megan's fucking law.

Speaker 1 This is Megan's law, which I thought we should all know where it came from. Fuck yes, we should.
It's important.

Speaker 1 This is why it's not just some, I didn't tell this horrifying child story, child murder story, which I would do. I'm not fucking arguing that I'm better than that, but this is an important one.
And

Speaker 1 I was studying some other murder. Today to do, and that came up.
And I was like, Jesus, I don't know enough about this. That's,

Speaker 1 I love that. That's why I studied this, and I was like, this is my murder.
This is important. And the next one that I found can come up because it has to do with Megan's Law later.

Speaker 1 But let's get to this. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 So Richard and Maureen, badass motherfuckers, go on a crusade to change the law. They demand mandatory community notification of

Speaker 1 sex offenders, which is the thing of like when a sex offender moves into your community, they have to notify the whole community that there's a sex offender living there.

Speaker 1 They can't live in your schools or daycares, all this shit. Can't fucking join the big brothers.
No, you motherfuckers.

Speaker 1 So they say that the registration, so registration requires, so there was the Jacob Wetterling Act originally, which is, we all know the Jacob Wetterling story, which is horrifying, but that only required sex offenders to register with local law enforcement.

Speaker 1 So they didn't have to tell anyone about it except the law enforcement. And they said that Megan would still be alive if they had known the criminal history of this dude.

Speaker 1 So in 1994, New Jersey enacts the law. And in 96, President Bill Clinton signed a federal Megan's law.
And

Speaker 1 it's basically amending the Jacob Wetterling Act. It sets guidelines for the state statutes requiring states to notify the public,

Speaker 1 although officials could decide how much public notification is necessary based on the level of danger posed by the offender, which is kind of troubling.

Speaker 1 So there's three tiers, and based on those tiers, they have to tell a certain amount of people, which sucks.

Speaker 1 And I can tell you what's in each tier if you want, but I don't know if it's even fucking worth it. Like, do you have to list acts that are super upsetting?

Speaker 1 Pretty much. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 it's, it's all troubling. And it's, you know, there's this whole argument now about

Speaker 1 First Amendment rights and all this shit. And like, you know, freedom of speech.
It's just like, it's an ugly thing where you're just like, don't molest children.

Speaker 1 You lose your fucking rights when you... are a sex offender.
Yeah. You lose your rights and you can't fucking argue your freedom of whatever the shit.
I mean, they want them to do speech, right?

Speaker 1 Is it like their freedom of privacy? Yes, that's the one. Yeah.
Which is like, well, you don't get to have it. You lost that.
You don't get to have it. No.

Speaker 1 Also, tell your friends in your fucking apartment you're sharing with all the other sex offenders, let them know if that's something they're going to continue to do if they get caught and prosecuted for it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. They're not going to be able to have that privacy

Speaker 1 to be a child rapist anymore. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 It's not like, so tier one is someone who's convicted and served less than one year of imprisonment for something like, it's for something light, like receiving or possessing child porn.

Speaker 1 That's tier one. Like that's a light fucking thing for them that you don't have to tell everyone.

Speaker 1 Or sexual assault against an adult that involved sexual contact, but not completed or attempted sexual assault. So they try to fucking rape an adult, but didn't fucking go through with it.

Speaker 1 They're not a sex. They are not.
They're not scary. They don't have to come and knock on your door and say, I did this.
Nope. Okay.
So you don't know that there's a rapist, attempted rapist.

Speaker 1 Attempted rapist. Because this is the classic difference between attempted and succeeded.
Fuck you. Well, because all it is, is it's just going to lead to, no, they're going to succeed.

Speaker 1 That's it's that. So this time they're going to do it.
They're going to kill them so they can't be identified and brought to trial, right? Because the second tier is when people who have had one.

Speaker 1 conviction get another one. So they're not going to want that other one.
They're going to kill their fucking victim instead of letting them live. A bunch of other shits.

Speaker 1 Tier three is just like, you don't want to fucking meet one of these motherfuckers ever. Anyways.
And are those the people knocking on your door? I don't know if that's actually a thing. Okay.

Speaker 1 I don't know if they do that. I'm just thinking of that part in the Big Labs.
It's totally

Speaker 1 Zeus knocks on people's doors.

Speaker 1 Totally.

Speaker 1 That's amazing. No, I think that the cops or like the, they have to hand out flyers door to door.
But there's this crazy thing too where you're not allowed to tell anyone about the flyer you got.

Speaker 1 So we get fucking, we don't have freedom of speech to tell our friends that there's a fucking child molester living in your neighborhood.

Speaker 1 What? Yeah. How is that? I don't know.
And let me say that this is from a you can leave it on the coffee table and point to it without seeing anything. Also, tip tap.

Speaker 1 Also, this is from an episode of 60-60 and 60 Minutes in 2000. So I could be could have changed by then.
Oh, yeah. I didn't do my research.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 you can't keep up with every goddamn law they pass. I'm sorry.
I'm a busy woman.

Speaker 1 So, yeah. So, Megan's law, sex offenders, they're required to register with local police when they're moved into a neighborhood.
And it's like so amazing that they, that's a huge change.

Speaker 1 It's not, it's huge.

Speaker 1 Super important. Unfortunately, in 2007, the death penalty was abolished in New Jersey.
I don't want to, I'm not trying to start a fucking fight about the death penalty, but

Speaker 1 so Jesse Temendikos just is now having life in prison, which is good. I want him to suffer there too.
You know what I mean? I do. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So everything is fucked. No, so it's wonderful.

Speaker 1 No, it's not. It's neither.
Look, it's all horrible. It's all horrible.
But yeah, you're right. At least something good came out of it where it's like, at least there's some progress in some way.

Speaker 1 And I'm, you know, her parents.

Speaker 1 I'm impressed with them. And it's amazing that they, and, you know, there's an interview with her mom who was just like,

Speaker 1 i i was obsessed she made the cops let her go into that room where her daughter died and she couldn't stop thinking about it they finally fucking demolished the house and built a park for megan and the mom's like i can't go to the park like she's feeling broken she was like i wanted to die and but you know they did something with it and have probably helped an innumerable is that a word innumerable innumerable amount of children prevention prevention that's they they'll have no idea how many people they say, they'll never know, yeah.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 wow, awesome,

Speaker 1 I like that one, and also learning, yeah, learning about what that even you hear that phrase and you don't know what it means. Totally, I had no idea.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 oh man, how are you doing?

Speaker 1 I'm pretty good yourself.

Speaker 1 What do you, uh, what's the thing you like this week?

Speaker 1 Huh.

Speaker 1 Is there anything?

Speaker 1 I just like to say sorry to Steven.

Speaker 1 You like the fact that you're saying sorry to Stephen? No, it's separate.

Speaker 1 It's Stephen's apology corner.

Speaker 1 I just didn't. Apology.

Speaker 1 It's really been bad this episode between Stephen and I. Usually it's fake.
I like to do some pretend yelling at the beginning. We have a whole thing.
And this Stephen crying is real. This is way

Speaker 1 wrong. He looks real broken.
But here's the good part about it. If you would see him right now, everybody at home, he has this like an elf hat on.
So if you were crying, it's very, it suits him.

Speaker 1 Like it looks good. And he could use it to cover his face.

Speaker 1 It's a beanie. One of those things called that you had volume.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 yeah. Okay, well, I'll go

Speaker 1 because I actually wrote it down this time, so I wouldn't be like, I don't know what I like.

Speaker 1 I like the show Fleabag on Amazon. What is it? I've never heard of it.
Oh my god. Well, A, you would love it because it's fucking British.
Because it's all reenactments. Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, it's like, it's like the show Search Party that we love. Yes.
But it's this fucking British chick who's too pretty for the part she's playing, which is like a mess.

Speaker 1 She's a fucking train wreck of a person. It's six episodes, but it's all like people that you would know from British procedurals.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 she's a mess, but there's this like crazy arc that.

Speaker 1 happens that is like kind of a surprise. Like it's just such a beautiful, messy show.
Oh, yes. And like, I don't fucking cry at shows ever.
I fucking started crying at the end. What?

Speaker 1 And I buried my face into Vince because I was so embarrassed. And I was like, he was just kind to her.

Speaker 1 Dude, I got to see that.

Speaker 1 It's so, you'll watch them all in one sitting. I love that.
It's so good.

Speaker 1 Everyone, oh, you'll love it.

Speaker 1 You said Amazon. It's on Amazon.
It's called Fleabag. I can't figure out how to watch TV on Amazon.
And I think I have all the things to do it. I just don't.

Speaker 1 When I go to do it every time, I'm like, I'm not young. I can't do this.

Speaker 1 Have 21-year-old Steven come over.

Speaker 1 He hates you now, so he's done it. And make him the casseroles, all these apologies.
Look, I don't think that you are a child murderer. I never have.
I don't know why it came out.

Speaker 1 I guess I felt bad that I wasn't, didn't receive. I was confused about your goddamn theme song.
I'm sorry. It's funny.
Karen likes surprises. I just was confused.

Speaker 1 One of the, there's a chick, there's a chick who's a main character on this show who

Speaker 1 is from like a British, a British procedural detective murder show.

Speaker 1 So you'll love it. You mean I'll recognize her? You're going to recognize a lot of people that I wouldn't recognize.
Okay. And you will recognize her.
Yes. And Brett Gellman randomly is in it.
No way.

Speaker 1 You're like, what the fuck is Brett Gellman doing in this? That's awesome. It's so weird.

Speaker 1 I thought that you were saying her character, she's playing a girl who's from a procedural where I'm like, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 No, but you'll love it. Okay.
It brought me a a lot of joy because it gave me feelings again.

Speaker 1 Good. I don't have those.
I like those. Listen, I

Speaker 1 am getting it back into feelings for 2017. Yeah.
Like even just trying to say, I think I want to have feelings again to people that would actually listen to me. I know.
I think it's a good idea.

Speaker 1 This thing is healthy. Yeah.
I want to, you know, what I want, I had therapy today and

Speaker 1 I want to stab, I want to have reality again.

Speaker 1 I mean it.

Speaker 1 I know what you mean, I think. Because I think my therapist and I did this, like, this, like,

Speaker 1 what is it called? Not activity, but like,

Speaker 1 oh, like, you did a, I know, you know what I'm saying? What is the word?

Speaker 1 Lisa Frank. You did a

Speaker 1 you, you drew weird unicorns. Uh, we did this, we had a exercise.
Exercise. Thank you.
I want to get my fucking memory. I want to move.
What if this

Speaker 1 had black mold this whole time? That would be my brain. It's the reason.

Speaker 1 But then you go to the new house and then you're like, you're like Bradley Cooper in that movie where you like can see everything. It's too smart.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, oh, I got to move back because this is really overwhelming. It's too much for me.
It's better the other way. It's too much for me.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we do these, we do these exercises where we sit in reality.

Speaker 1 And it makes me realize that I've been disassociating with the world because it's easier to filter in when I think that there's a different plane of existence and this is all fake and virtual reality,

Speaker 1 and that every book I read is like more real than life. Yes.
Are you saying yes? Like you're scared of me and you think I'm crazy? No, I am.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 we do it and it's scary and overwhelming. And she's like, How do I say yes in a way that would, because that was the realest yes I've said in a while.
Oh, okay. No, that's all.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then you hear you 100%. And then she's like, leave it here, though.
Don't go do that because you'll have a fucking panic attack if you do it in real life. So because you can't stay in too long.

Speaker 1 Everybody copes in different ways. It's like my therapist said to me one time when I had quit, you know, don't drink anymore.
Yeah. Quit doing anything extra, quit.

Speaker 1 And then I had quit sugar and I'd quit this and I'd quit that. And she goes, well, you got to do something because everybody needs a little bit of oblivion.

Speaker 1 And I was like, you're fucking really good at yourself. Good at your job, Michelle.
Everybody needs a bit of oblivion. Yeah.
It's a lower back tattoo.

Speaker 1 Big butterfly underneath. Beautiful.
Put it in quotes: misspell oblivion.

Speaker 1 Everybody needs a little bit of Olivian. I have Oblivion.

Speaker 1 We're not aiming for perfection here. There's no perfection happening.
We don't want it. We're being

Speaker 1 feelings

Speaker 1 and reality. Feelings and pieces of reality at times.
Bits and pieces. Then get back out and go into your other world.
Because I can't.

Speaker 1 I know I have one. Okay.

Speaker 1 But mine I haven't seen yet. It's, I'm so excited for the new FX series starring Tom Hardy called Taboo, where he plays a guy that he's like on the secret police force in London in 1814.

Speaker 1 And it is the preview for it looks insanely beautiful. It looks like it's shot like it looks super real.

Speaker 1 Like my thing, my way of disappearing from reality is going into TV shows and going into Jane Austen movies and shit where I'm like, it is no longer this year.

Speaker 1 We are now back in the time where you sit in your room and write letters and see if somebody wants to come and sit in the salon with you. I don't do that with movies.

Speaker 1 I do it with books because movies, I'm like, that guy has a fucking headshot. That piece of shit, motherfucker.
Like, someone dressed that person in the wardrobe like assistant is so miserable.

Speaker 1 And like, someone threw coffee on her today. Like, I can't watch.
I have to make that up in my head.

Speaker 1 They keep you in. They don't do that.

Speaker 1 Okay. Flea bag.
was one of the only ones I've been able because I was able to, the one I just talked about. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I was able to identify with her yes so much so it was so real to you that you never left yes you got you stayed in that reality that's probably why i liked it and search party is like it was real i can't do that with movies so and that's why when you when you

Speaker 1 as soon as you said tom hardy i was out because everything about that sounds amazing but he can't he will take you out a pretty i thought he was a i thought tom hardy and whatever hardy were the football player were the same person i don't i don't he's just tom brady yeah he's just like a pretty the tom family yeah He's just pretty.

Speaker 1 He's insanely pretty. In this, though.
It's like if Justin fucking Timberlake were playing him. It's true, but same thing.
But let's talk about body difference. Tom Hardy is a beefy

Speaker 1 slice.

Speaker 1 He is a beefy slice of what? He's a mince pie. I don't know.
Something British. The man is...
I mean, he's played a boxer like 17 different times. A what? A boxer?

Speaker 1 Oh, I thought you said something between a... I don't know what you said.
Yeah, it was a boxer. Okay.
Maybe I put a little slide on that X.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But yeah, no, I'm just saying he's insanely well-built.
If you ever take a chance and watch Peaky Blinders. I tried.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I don't like, I totally, you know, I don't like attractive, well-built actors. I want to, I want to cut them down to size and make them feel like shit about themselves.
I just,

Speaker 1 I can't.

Speaker 1 Well, then, yeah, no Tom Hardy vehicle is going to be good for you because the man exudes confidence to the point of insane cockiness.

Speaker 1 I feel bad that everything you're saying, I'm like, I don't like that. I don't like that.
I don't like that. It's just one of those episodes.
But I will say this. I mean, who cares a lot? Who cares?

Speaker 1 In this, I think there's all kinds of extra shit happening because, like, everything I see, and I've only seen the trailer, so what do I know?

Speaker 1 It sounds awesome in every way.

Speaker 1 Like, he's crawling through mud. He's like the cat man, but this one hasn't come out yet.
Other episodes.

Speaker 1 He is doing all these things where I feel like he's fighting the pretty as hard as he possibly can, which in and of itself might be distracting.

Speaker 1 And maybe he needs to prove himself that he's like, I'm not just a pretty face.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I don't know that Tom Hardy is going to be sitting around doubting himself in any way at any fucking time in his life.

Speaker 1 Can you imagine? I mean, or maybe he does privately. But he just did, did you see that he made a video and it's Tom Hardy Reads You to Sleep? No.
Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 See if you don't hate that. I'll try it.
It's like being put to sleep.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's true. I think it's just him being insanely sexy.
But I don't, it's not like he's my type sexiness-wise. It's, it's, what I'm attracted to sexually is 1814 London.
I want to be there.

Speaker 1 So bring me the plague on a fucking silver platter. You want to tell me about it on a fucking, on Tom Hardy's abs.

Speaker 1 Oh, wait. That's Tom Brady.
Can I do another one? Yes. Sorry.
Always. This will dig dig us back out.

Speaker 1 I mean, that was what we were already out. Sorry.
But I mean, this is just, this is one I've actually experienced. Because that thing could be, who knows? That's my own trailer.

Speaker 1 That's my review of a trailer.

Speaker 1 Somebody, and I'm sorry, I can't remember your name. A lovely gal on Twitter retweeted me a Riz Ahmed tweet where he is, did you see that picture? Where he's, do you know what I'm talking about?

Speaker 1 He's Riz Ahmed

Speaker 1 squatting down by a personalized license plate. Oh, my God, oh my God.
That says, I'm sad. And he's throwing up like the peace sign.
No, he isn't. And he just looks kind of like neutral.

Speaker 1 And she just sent it to me and just said, hey, girl. And I just wrote back to her and said, I've never been happier.
Oh, my God. It's the best picture.

Speaker 1 I'm sad. And he doesn't look sad at all.
Also, he is doing amazing humanitarian work to raise money for people.

Speaker 1 Humanitarian work to raise money for people in Syria. That's hard.
He fucking tweets about it all the time. He has a whole thing where it's like, send me $10 and get five people to send $10.

Speaker 1 Like he is busting his ass to raise money for Syrian refugees. And it just is like, well, you're a super great actor that was just nominated for a Golden Globe.

Speaker 1 And you look so good in a fucking bow tie. And you have a good sense of humor because you know enough to squat next to the I'm Sad license plate.
Oh, and you're going to raise money.

Speaker 1 What's Tom Hardy ever fucking done? Tom Hardy? What's Tom Hardy ever squatted next to? Yeah, nothing. Nice 1814.
Yeah, we'll see what he squats next to in this fucking show. Now I'm mad at the show.

Speaker 1 I should have another one. Oh, yes.
What if we start doing 10 each? I have the episode of Black Mirror. Yeah.
It's called Sanju Nipero. Didn't see it.
Oh, my God. It's a lesbian love story.

Speaker 1 I shouldn't have said that. That's a spoiler.
It is the most.

Speaker 1 Just go watch Sanju Nipero. It's like the most beautiful love story.
So it's just, I shouldn't have said that. It's such a good show.
Charlie Booker, the guy that writes that show?

Speaker 1 I think he wrote and directed this episode. That might be wrong too, but I bet he did.
It's such a, it's such a, it's not even a Black Mirror episode.

Speaker 1 It's like such a beautiful story that you don't see very often on, you know, television because it's like

Speaker 1 spoiler alert. Because there's lesbians, but it's like, it's just a love story.
Okay. I'll watch it.
And it's heartbreaking and beautiful.

Speaker 1 I was actually avoiding Black Mirror because when I go to my TV escape, I just want it to be an actual escape. So

Speaker 1 when it's a thing like, look at how your phone is going to murder your eyes. It's like, I can't, I don't want to watch the first episode.

Speaker 1 It is so, it's so good, but it's, it'll make you stop using your phone ever again.

Speaker 1 Good luck. Good luck.
It's so good. Bryce, what's her name? Dallas Howard? Dallas Howard.

Speaker 1 Is she in it? I think that's her unless it's another redhead. Jessica Chastain.
Those are the two that look exactly the same. I know.
It's not Jessica Chastain. I think it's Bryce.

Speaker 1 howard it's she's so good it's so good okay we should watch it okay i'll watch it what other shows do we want to recommend let's recommend these shows to you every single show on tv now we talk about it even though we don't know we don't know we don't know who cares we don't care we don't care stephen go we don't care

Speaker 1 cue that fucking song as we go out

Speaker 1 Thanks for listening, everybody. You better fucking cue that song.
I swear to God. Stephen, do it.
Drive your thing. Steven, cue it.
Thanks for listening. We love you guys.

Speaker 1 Thank you for all your interaction with us. We are angel babies.

Speaker 1 We're at my favorite murder. Like, follow us on shit and like go to things and be a part of it.
Being a part of our lives. Tell us when you're ready to die.
Not yet. We love you.

Speaker 1 And stay sexy and don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 Elvis, you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 Want a cookie?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you did. Cookie?

Speaker 1 Elvis. Elvis.
Can I answer your goddamn cookie?

Speaker 1 There we go.

Speaker 1 Play us out. Play us out, Stephen.

Speaker 1 Sing along, Karen. I can't do it.
Elvis is singing along. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 Elvis, sing it.

Speaker 1 Elvis,

Speaker 1 sing it. Cookie?

Speaker 1 Cookie.

Speaker 1 Cookie?

Speaker 1 Here's cookie.

Speaker 1 Everyone who's trying to fall asleep listening to this episode is like, fuck you. Elvis to go to cookie.
Hi.

Speaker 1 We did it. Last episode here.

Speaker 1 Bye. Bye-bye.
I should give up my address now.

Speaker 1 Okay, so we're back. Do you have updates for this story? I do.
More than 30 years later, Maureen and Rich Kenka still live in the home they shared with Megan,

Speaker 1 which is incredible. In an interview with CBS, the Kenkas said they're grateful to be able to spoil their grandsons and enjoy quality time with their daughter and son, Megan's two older siblings.

Speaker 1 The Kankas recognize that Megan's story has done more than just create laws. It started a nationwide movement and conversations with kids about safety, strangers, and how to avoid danger.

Speaker 1 30 years ago, Maureen Kanka said, Don't sugarcoat it. Tell them what happens to little children by sex offenders.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's so hard, I'm sure, but you got to warn kids about the dangers of life. Yes.

Speaker 1 I feel like since that time, that has really changed where that was the kind of thing of like, oh, that's inappropriate to talk about.

Speaker 1 And now, obviously, parents are much more like that kind of like propriety concern is not what you should be worried about. You should be worried about keeping your kids safe.
Totally.

Speaker 1 And to this day, Maureen's message and mission are still the same. It's to honor Megan by protecting children.

Speaker 1 And then I also talked about the three-tier system as part of the federal sex offender registration and notification act.

Speaker 1 So knock and notify is still a thing, like you see in the Big Lebowski, but it's state-specific, not federally mandated. I mean, that's where we all know it from.

Speaker 1 No, it is the per it's the perfect thing. I was just referencing the Big Lebowski to my dad the other day where I'm like, don't fuck with the Jesus man.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, why am I quoting the Big Lebowski to my father? He does not know what I'm talking about. Were you high?

Speaker 1 Did they give you, did you have the flu and they gave you drugs? So it's usually officers and not the offender who do the knock and notify thing.

Speaker 1 And now in New Jersey, where Megan lived, knock and notify is mandatory, but only for tier three sex offenders. So that's interesting.

Speaker 1 But updated offender obligations now include providing email addresses, internet IDs, and verifying information every one, three, or six months, depending on the tier.

Speaker 1 So, you know, I mean, what a historic story. The kind of story that I think we would do differently maybe now,

Speaker 1 but it's all the same, so important to talk about. Yeah.
And then so because we're ending on it. It's like we could finally feel those heavy stories of like, we have to pivot here.

Speaker 1 It's too hard to stay here. Yeah.
It was a gleam in our eyes not to be total fucking downers. Right.
Yeah. So important.

Speaker 1 So in this, I recommended fleabag before it was a thing. I didn't know.
I'm so impressed with myself. You should be.
You called that.

Speaker 1 You're a visionary, but also, I just saw the note that says Karen can't figure out how to watch things on Amazon. What in the fuck? What?

Speaker 1 Am I really that old? Like, it's like, we're like, Stephen, can you help Karen

Speaker 1 watch something on Amazon Prime? Was it new? It must have been new. I guess so.
I didn't have a smart TV.

Speaker 1 You're confused about that, and I'm confused still to this day about the difference between Tom Hardy and Tom Brady. I'm furious at you about that.
It's just a name thing. It's not a person thing.

Speaker 1 I know one is light and one is evil. I know, I know

Speaker 1 one is British and one is not. One is a New Englander or something.
You can't give me too many names and expect the world from me. Yeah, the Tom ratio is too high for you.
Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, if we could travel back in time and tell that Karen in Georgia, hey, hold on because you're excited about Tom Hardy and he will be there when somebody else mentions your podcast name in front of him.

Speaker 1 That's right. In Venom 3, The Last Dance, which stars Tom Hardy for sure.
Yes. Tom Hardy.
Tom Brady did not star in Venom. That's for sure.

Speaker 1 Our podcast is mentioned and is pretty, pretty fucking incredible. Also, he's listed as a writer.

Speaker 1 So I think we got ourselves excited one day thinking about like, what if he actually was making a reference? But the odds of that are, I would say, between two and three percent.

Speaker 1 Definitely on a good day. All right.

Speaker 1 So this episode, as we said, was originally called A Bit of Oblivion, which I think is, I still think about that quote because you say we all need a bit of oblivion.

Speaker 1 And I think it's a pretty classic, excellent

Speaker 1 saying.

Speaker 1 And it's, I have to give full credit to my therapist. Oh, that's her.
That's right. Where I was like, oh, you know, talking about all the ways that I love Oblivion, which I have a lot of them.

Speaker 1 And then she's just like, we all need to get out of this reality every once in a while. Escape.
It's a thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But if we call it something else, maybe we'd call it, I'm Laughing at My Own Podcast, which I've done many, many times.

Speaker 1 Stephen's Apology corner.

Speaker 1 Sorry, Stephen.

Speaker 1 How about I'm sad? Just that picture with Riza Med. I'm sad.
I'm sad. Back into feelings.
I mean,

Speaker 1 there's so many. Whatever Hardy.
Whatever Hardy. The Hardys, the Hardy Boys.
Well, bless the Rains Down in Africa. There's so many in this one.
Yeah. Stephen, help me watch Amazon.

Speaker 1 Well, thanks, you guys, for listening to this episode of Rewind. We hope you enjoyed it, and we'll keep bringing them to you.
Yes. Stay sexy.
And don't get murdered. Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 No one brings out your inner monster like a bad neighbor.

Speaker 1 Claire Danes and Matthew Reese find that out for themselves in The Beast in Me, a new eight-episode drama from the team that brought you homeland. Danes plays Aggie Wiggs, a grieving writer.

Speaker 1 Reese plays Niall Jarvis, her new neighbor and possible murderer. But who's the monster and who's the bad neighbor? That's another story.

Speaker 1 It's a game of cat and mouse that sets them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The beast and me now playing only on Netflix.
You will not want to miss this. Goodbye.
Goodbye.

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Goodbye.

Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 51: A Bit of Oblivion

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Transcript

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