482 - Similar Different Problems

Speaker 1 This is exactly right.

Speaker 1 Daniel Craig returns as Benoit Blanc with an all-star ensemble cast for his most dangerous case yet.

Speaker 1 When young priest Judd Duplentisi is sent to assist charismatic firebrand Monsignor Jefferson Wicks, it's clear that not all is well in the pews.

Speaker 1 Written and directed by Ryan Johnson, critics are calling it the sharpest knives out movie yet.

Speaker 1 Watch Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery in Select Theaters November 26th and on Netflix December 12th. Goodbye.
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Goodbye.

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Speaker 1 That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com/slash MFM code MFM at checkout. Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstar.
That's Karen Kilgara. Someone's got a new haircut.
This is the place where we trim our bangs an hour before we go on video.

Speaker 1 Oh, did you hand you personally hand-trimmed your own bangs? Yes, and I have a sink at home full of hair to prove it. Well, I like it.
You went down the center.

Speaker 1 I did like it because I've been growing it out. So like, what am I going to do? And then I'm like, well, I hate it.
And so I just went. You did cut your bangs.
Yes. Yeah.
Did it work? Yes, it did.

Speaker 1 I used the razor scissors from when I was in beauty school

Speaker 1 in 1999. Do you remember your razor scissor lesson? What was the trick of razor scissors? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Get them, like make sure you have a new razor in there and not one from 1998. Which is what you had.
You nice dull razor. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You can hear the hair.

Speaker 1 You can hear the hair cutting. You can hear each hair individually being sliced.
Do you know how much I can't have people use razors on my hair? It goes insane.

Speaker 1 Like the, because, oh, your hair goes crazy. The hair goes so crazy.
And it's not, you know, there's like, I follow a bunch of hairdressers on TikTok. Yeah.
Stylists. Is there an award racer?

Speaker 1 And a lot of them use those razors. And I'm like, I don't, my hair

Speaker 1 do the weirdest shit. I know what you mean.
Cause you, it can't be thinner. It'll just, Vince very, like, carefully said, don't you have someone who does that for you?

Speaker 1 And then ran down the hall in his socks at top speed. I laughed so hard.
It was just like such a careful careful thing. And it's like, yeah, but obviously you've never been a fucking teenage girl.

Speaker 1 Right. Cause it's not that hard.
And it doesn't, it looks good. Thank you.
I don't know how much better they would do it. Yeah.
And also you're get, you're into, you're getting into a real curtain.

Speaker 1 It's got like a curtain bangs center part. Are you going to go into a Farah Fawcett era this summer? I could.
And then I have like the 80s. shirt to go with it blouse.
Yeah. Span those decades.

Speaker 1 My goal and beauty beauty is to look like Janet from Freeze Company. I was going to say Janet from Freeze Company.
And then I thought you would think it was insulting. Why? She's gorgeous.

Speaker 1 She's gorgeous. I don't know.
Maybe I thought it was too old. So I was just like, file it, file it away.
That's my fucking style.

Speaker 1 And then a little bit of Mrs. Roper thrown in.
You know what I mean? Just like a smooth. A chunky necklace.
Right. A moo moo.
We were just talking about the Ropers on Do You Need a Ride.

Speaker 1 Oh, how funny. Not to cross-promote.
It's weird. But it's the truth.
Man.

Speaker 1 we're like fucking psychically connected. It's true.
Psycho connected. Psycho connected.
Speaking of, I have a birthday present for you. Let's see it.
Do you want it? Fuck yeah.

Speaker 1 You have to close your eyes. Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 Okay, close your eyes.

Speaker 1 Hold on.

Speaker 1 I've got to tell you when. Okay.

Speaker 1 Wait. Okay, ready? Mm-hmm.
Open your eyes.

Speaker 1 Oh, the Italian hand. It's an

Speaker 1 Explain it. It's an Italian hand on the like swing thing.
So it does the Italian hand gesture. With the Italian flag.
With the Italian flag. So it's a constant Italian hand gesture of Mama Mia

Speaker 1 Abundanza Pizza for one. What is that? I bet there's a name for this, Italian.
Absolutely. Sorry.
Liana Schilacci, do you want to tell us what the name of this is? No. On the spot.

Speaker 1 Sorry.

Speaker 1 You claim to be Italian. You can't expose me like this.

Speaker 1 Got you. That was just a big got you for.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. This is incredible.
Hopefully we're clear on cameras because that is, I wish it was the kind of thing where you rocked it once and it does it for infinitely like the clacky thing.

Speaker 1 That's an incredible gift. Thank you so much.
Happy birthday. Do you also want to,

Speaker 1 I have another one that's

Speaker 1 that might be insulting like Janet. from Three's Company might be insulting, but I bought a self-help book and I accidentally got two of them.

Speaker 1 So I was going to say that maybe we should read them together and we can have like a self-help self-help book club. I mean, I think the people have been waiting for that for 10 years.

Speaker 1 Let's do it. I saw this one and I was like, is it going to be confrontational? No, it was like, I, it was, I got it because I don't cry and I need to like, I want to feel feelings and stuff.

Speaker 1 And so it's not, it's called Emotional Agility. Ooh.
Get Unstuck, Embrace Change, and Thrive in Work in Life by Susan David, PhD. We all need to do all of those things.

Speaker 1 That's great. So there we go.
All right. So let's not read it.
No, no. So we're going to do, we're going to not read it and we're going to shut our emotions down and we're not going to change.

Speaker 1 I think we should read it, and I think we should do like a, that could be a fan cult video of like,

Speaker 1 we read a self-help book, and this is what Karen thinks you should take from away from it, and this is what Georgia thinks you should take.

Speaker 1 Like, highlight important things in it for us, and then we can like see if we got anything the same.

Speaker 1 And I just looked at it and realized that maybe I bought it because there's a cookie with sprinkles on the cover of it, but I still need emotional agility. So, what if we picked cookies to

Speaker 1 eat with every book club? Okay.

Speaker 1 I was kind of

Speaker 1 strong. I was thinking about other stuff while I was pitching that.
Okay. I kind of got distracted.
Well, you'll take the next one, so

Speaker 1 it can be whatever you want to say. I like this, though.
We should really do a self-help book club. Yeah.
I think it's great. And like, find one that you think will work for you.

Speaker 1 And like, because obviously we both have

Speaker 1 different problems. Similar, different problems.

Speaker 1 I like this. And if I get emotionally agile enough, I can land an Italian man.
Could you imagine? Manja. Is that it? Pizza for one.
Manja.

Speaker 1 It's the thing where, like, in Inglorious Bastards, the guys that he pretend, he gets to pretend are Italian, but they don't speak.

Speaker 1 So the one guy he asks, somebody asks him a question in Italian and he just goes, Do you see the baby who does it too? No. There's a baby who does it on TikTok.
It's fucking cute.

Speaker 1 Like a brand new that it's just a weird thing to see.

Speaker 1 Like toddler, so it is weird still, but it's like, who were you in your last life kind of a thing? So the toddler means it? Yeah, and he's not Italian. It's very weird.
What does it mean?

Speaker 1 I guess Italians from everywhere, including our Italian couples friends that used to come and see us live. Remember the Italians?

Speaker 1 Maybe they could write in and tell us what, what does the pinched finger hand gesture mean? Kivoy? Kivoy.

Speaker 1 Kivoy. Which means what? It means like, what do you want? What do you do? What do you want?

Speaker 1 What are you doing?

Speaker 1 Oh, it's bad? Oh, it's like this piece of shit. Yeah, it's like, come on.
What do you want? Okay.

Speaker 1 But don't people do it like delicious?

Speaker 1 But they kiss it when it's

Speaker 1 a different thing. Chef's kiss.
Chef's kiss. The fingers are not like a beautiful.
It's like a

Speaker 1 you, yeah, okay. It's like a, how dare you? Okay.
Well, that's perfect for you.

Speaker 1 Well, no, just put it on your desk and just whenever someone comes into your office, you could just if only that would work. Did you watch the Vince Vaughan

Speaker 1 show where he like, never mind? Say it. No, it's stupid.

Speaker 1 You don't want to talk about Italy anymore i don't want to

Speaker 1 did you watch that vince vaughn show where he became italian what do you got oh personally um i don't think anything except for to say that uh it is now pool season again it's hot enough consistently in la

Speaker 1 where the swimming has begun again and i have been waiting and waiting for this and it it was so weirdly mild to not warm for so long yeah and we're in now it's very exciting i've started gardening because because it's like nice till like eight o'clock yes you know in the evening yeah warm at night yeah nice glass of wine and get my hands all dirty it's been fun good yeah that's a nice one all right fine

Speaker 1 look

Speaker 1 oh i have an instagram comment to read that i really liked that i think you'll like let's hear it um so last week you did the story of the shooting in arizona and how a lot of unhoused people got shot and we discussed that and you know like let's have some fucking empathy, everyone.

Speaker 1 So someone on the My Favorite Runner Instagram, whose name is Feral underscore Forest underscore witch, Feral Forest Witch, said

Speaker 1 this. Thank you for what you said today about humanizing unhoused people.

Speaker 1 I was once an unhoused pregnant 19-year-old living in my truck and working as a merchandiser at Macy's and a receptionist at a day spa.

Speaker 1 I would sleep in my truck, do a quick horse bath at a gas station, and change into my work clothes every morning. Occasionally, I could couch surf for the trade of cleaning in an apartment.

Speaker 1 No one at work knew I wasn't housed. A miscarriage scare brought me to the hospital, and I called my mom.
Thankfully, the baby was okay, and I decided to keep him and moved back in with my parents.

Speaker 1 That baby is now 24 and an astrobiologist.

Speaker 1 At 24 or ever, an astrobiologist. You did something right.
You did something. Like, what a contribution to the world.
It's like basically saying that baby is now a rocket scientist. Right.

Speaker 1 Essentially. Right.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 a loving partner to my wonderful son-in-law. But I'll never forget that we began life together in a Chevy S10.

Speaker 1 Like, that's how, like, yeah, you're co-workers.

Speaker 1 You just don't know anyone's situation. And these days, these days,

Speaker 1 everyone has two and three jobs because the minimum wage hasn't been raised in a hundred years and the billionaires are keeping all of the money. It's like.
And the cost of living is just insane.

Speaker 1 It's not matching up with what people are being paid. It's just fucking, it's

Speaker 1 abhorrent. We should be so humiliated and like horrified by ourselves in the U.S.
that we are treating. Rise up, rise up, rise up, rise up.
Rise up.

Speaker 1 It's over. Fuck billionaires.
I mean, and also just it cannot sustain this way.

Speaker 1 They're pushing it to the tipping point. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 In that idea, that bill bill that just got passed. It's like cutting Medicaid, cutting, like, it's just stripping out any, anything that's left to give people.
Yeah. And who's getting it? I wonder.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Where's that money going to? I mean, it's just, it's crazy.
Shall we do a donation? Sure. Yeah.
Let's give a $10,000 donation. Let's do it.
So No Kid Hungry.

Speaker 1 who we love giving to, go to nokidhungry.org if you want to help out as well. I mean, we just do the basics.
You could give $5.

Speaker 1 We're going to give $10,000. Try to move some money toward children who are waking up in a Ford F10

Speaker 1 with their mom, trying to get by. Their mom's working two jobs and raising kids.
Like, it's not right. Y'all, please do what you can.
And this is all for the Murderinos when we donate.

Speaker 1 So thank you guys so much. That's right.
We donate in your names. There's a lot of good in this world, and there's a lot of good we can do.

Speaker 1 If you don't have money to do good with, what else can you do? Just ask yourself that every day. You'll probably be pretty surprised with the answers you get all around you because the need is there.

Speaker 1 And also people need to be good to each other. The need within you to give is just as important.
Absolutely. So absolutely.
That's great. If you don't have that, then blood is fine too.

Speaker 1 Then give your blood and get a cookie and try not to faint. I have that blood that's like, you know.
Oh, can you, that crazy blood? That's just like super rare. Super powerful blood.

Speaker 1 Does your blood cure cancers and others it does i think i've heard of your blood just like that congratulations they have like a you know in on in antarctica there's a place that has just my blood in case the apocalypse comes you should sell it on etsy you made it blood on etsy

Speaker 1 well we have an exciting announcement for you guys so i guess yeah let's just fucking get into it right let's get into it if you're a fast forwarder don't do it yet because we got a really fun announcement fast forwarder no skipper right we never called them fast fast forwarders before.

Speaker 1 This is exciting news for the real ones. The fan cult, which is our fan club, we just named it the fan cult.
We just gave it a major upgrade. Yeah, we've been working on this.
This is so exciting.

Speaker 1 You guys are going to love it. It's got so much stuff in it.
And now we have added so much more.

Speaker 1 So to begin with, there's currently an archive of almost 200 mini-mini episodes and five years of bonus video just waiting. So if you're not a member yet, That's like the first thing.

Speaker 1 It's already sitting there. Yeah.
But now we have broken the fan cult into two tiers. So there's tier one, which is called Urna Cult.
That's $5 a month.

Speaker 1 And that you get weekly bonus, audio and video, early access to live show tickets, access to our Discord, which is a new thing. I was told it's something like the internet version of a fresh salon.

Speaker 1 It's really fun.

Speaker 1 And then tier two is Call Your Dad. And you guys have been wanting this.
This is the thing that everyone's been waiting for. It's just $10 a month.

Speaker 1 And you get everything from tier one, plus a $20 merch credit. And here's the very exciting thing, you get ad-free episodes of the podcast and video.

Speaker 1 People have been asking for ad-free podcasts since we left Stitcher back in 1974

Speaker 1 and you wanted it. Now we have it.
It's been very hard. We've been trying to figure out a way and this is it.
We're doing it for ourselves.

Speaker 1 So if you sign up for tier two now, you will get ad-free episodes of this podcast and they upload to Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcast. So they just go there automatically.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of like little details that have been hard to track down and we've done it. And if you sign up before Friday, June 13th, Friday the 13th, you'll get the fan cult relaunch discount.

Speaker 1 So that's tier one for $3.33 a month or tier two for $8

Speaker 1 a month. We're not trying to fucking gouge anyone here.
We're just trying to put up some exclusive content and stuff. That's right.

Speaker 1 And to prove that we're not trying to gouge anybody, you can either pay monthly at those prices or you go yearly, you'll save even more. That's right.

Speaker 1 If you are a current member of the fan cult, you are automatically moved to the $5 tier at your original $3.33 price. So don't worry.
We're not, yeah, nobody freak out here. This is a good thing.

Speaker 1 I know people like to, you know, people don't like change and they get scared, but this is actually really fucking cool and I'm excited about it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So go to fancult.supercast.com to join the cult or just go to myfavorite murder.com. There's links there.
And yay, welcome to the fan cult. It's a fucking really fun place to be, I think.

Speaker 1 And on top of that, we want to tell you about all of the highlights from our network. It's called the Exactly Right Podcast Network.

Speaker 1 So this week on Bananas, Kurt and Scotty cover hot topics like attractive psychopaths and a woman falling into a crevasse to get her phone.

Speaker 1 Over on Ghosted, Roz welcomes the luminous actor and kindred spirit, James Scully. And then on I Said No Gifts, Bridger does his best to stay composed when Tim Kalpakis barges in with a freaking gift.

Speaker 1 And this week on this podcast, I'll kill you, the errands tackle toxic shock syndrome. Whoa.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And then most importantly, obviously, Hot Dog Summer has arrived straight from the runways of Milan, pulled from the elite couture shops of Paris.

Speaker 1 We bring you the hot dog collection of our merch again. That's right.
We're re-releasing Hot Dog Ladies Muscle Tea, the Hot Dog Unisex Tea, and a Hot Dog Sticker. So chic, it's so sexy.

Speaker 1 It's been banned on Six Conference.

Speaker 1 I wear that Hot Dog Ladies' Muscle Tea to work out in, and it boosts me. I mean, I don't want to make any promises, but it's like you can draw power from it.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 So also this design is by Sammy Rich. So go to exactlyrightstore.com to grab yours today or tomorrow.
No, no rush.

Speaker 1 Yeah, don't. Please don't.
Unless they sell out. Yeah, those hot dogs will sell out.
Yeah.

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Goodbye.

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Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Now, this is the story of a cult that I had never heard of. Oh.
Yeah. I know you love a cult.
I really do.

Speaker 1 So maybe you know this one, but I watched the documentary about it and I was like, how have I never heard of this? It should be just as big as all the others because it's horrible

Speaker 1 and, you know, awful. It feels like with cults.
Yeah. It can only go in one direction.
Right. Well, you don't hear about the good one.
Are there good cults where it's like, and everything was fine?

Speaker 1 Like the Catholic Church. You heard about that a lot lately.
I wonder if there are any like positive ones. What would a positive cult be?

Speaker 1 I just don't think it can be because it's the any positivity then turns in on itself because of the creeps at the top. Yeah, if it's a positive one, it doesn't get called a cult.

Speaker 1 So we don't hear about it, probably. Then it's just an MLM.
Right. Then it's just a religion.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So today's story is about a nefarious couple who teamed up to start a Christian cult that managed to operate for 40 years and inflict horrific abuses on its members.

Speaker 1 This is the story of the Alamo Christian Foundation.

Speaker 1 Have you heard of them? It's spelled Alamo. Yeah, I'm thinking of the rental car company.
Yeah. They were horrible.
It's not them. But they abuse people.

Speaker 1 No, but they actually do have a really crazy connection to like a piece of merchandise or to like a public-facing thing, like the rental car thing. Okay.
That's bananas. Okay.

Speaker 1 The main source I use for this story is a docuseries that Vince and I watch called Ministry of Evil, The Twisted Cult of Tony Alamo.

Speaker 1 And the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. This is a great documentary.
It has all the information.

Speaker 1 So consider this your friend telling you about the documentary, and then you should go watch it. Because I'm not going to be able to like, no, relay all the information.

Speaker 1 And it's really fucking interesting. I am going to,

Speaker 1 I promise I'll listen.

Speaker 1 But I'm going to be thinking that I've already seen this documentary because, but I feel like the story is so dense and it goes on for so long. Yeah, it does.
But is that the one I'm thinking of?

Speaker 1 Or is it like, I'm like, but then there's children of God. Like, I feel like I have documentary

Speaker 1 poisoning, essentially. Yes.
Where I've seen so many where it's like, is the closed captioning yellow? Well, let me tell you what they look like because maybe that'll help. It looks like Tammy Faye.

Speaker 1 And then it looks like...

Speaker 1 Fat Elvis. Yes.
But I was going to say it's more of a Roy Orbison kind of thing. Okay.
Okay. Do you see that? Yes.
Bright blonde hair. She's got the most amazing dresses, like 70s style.

Speaker 1 But he has a very 70s, like man, paunchy man vibe. Exactly.
Okay. Yes.
That's them. Roy Orbison, old Elvis kind of a thing.
Got you. Exactly.
This is the one. All right.

Speaker 1 So I'm not going to like really get into the beginnings. It's the same thing you hear for like Manson and all of the other ones.
It's like the 1960s.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of hippies going to Los Angeles trying to figure out their way. And there's a lot of people praying on them, including this cult.
They pass out flyers about Jesus.

Speaker 1 They invite people to come to the church.

Speaker 1 And it turns out for these guys, they're doing the bidding for a couple, this couple, a man named Tony Alamo and a woman named Susan, who have started the Alamo Christian Foundation.

Speaker 1 So it's the same thing you've heard a million times, you know? It's the same thing you dream of doing one day with your money. With starting a cult or running away to Los Angeles Foundation.

Speaker 1 That's my dream. I have my mood board.
It's like, it's just so weird where it's like, you're all that work.

Speaker 1 And maybe it's just my perspective that I can't get, but it's like, you're going to do all that work and not like do a show at the end.

Speaker 1 or you're gonna do all that work and not it's just purely to force people to go to church yeah well so she is actually an incredible orator as they say okay so it's the story is like almost in two parts where she's in charge and then he's in charge and when she's in charge it kind of makes sense because she can stand up on the pulpit and give these incredible sermons and she's really a show a showman and her daughter is in the documentary and she's fucking the most amazing person and you want to hang out with her so bad.

Speaker 1 And she talks about what a con woman her mother was and how good she was at it. And I think she actually was.

Speaker 1 It's very similar to like Jim Jones.

Speaker 1 Like she's just really good at it. Wow.
And like the same time period where people are lost, they're looking for something new.

Speaker 1 They, you know, their parents are like old school and so they don't fit in there anymore, but there's nothing else for them. You know what I mean? It's like, I could totally, it's so easy.
It seems.

Speaker 1 Yeah. When you run out of the house, like at the beginning of the Pat Benatar video, love is a battlefield and you're like, fuck you, I'll never come back.

Speaker 1 And then you go out and then the world is horrifying and you think you can't go back. Exactly.
So that's, that's this time.

Speaker 1 It's like, it makes sense that these people in the 60s and 70s fell for this. But the people in the 90s have no fucking excuse.
Listen, it was a very sarcastic time and there was a lot to run from.

Speaker 1 You think they were kidding? The 90s were like, we were just being sarcastic. No, I mean, it was like a cult.
People needed to take shelter from how toxic the culture was. Right.

Speaker 1 Where they were just like, I don't know, Jesus, will you help me? Because these people are.

Speaker 1 can't anymore. Okay, so let me tell you about Susan, first of all.
She looks like, yeah, like Dolly Parton and Janice the Muppet from the Muppet band became a person. Her name was Edith Opal Horn.

Speaker 1 She's born in Arkansas in 1925. She wants to be an actress, moves to Los Angeles in the 1940s, and she gets a job as a bar girl, which I really loved this.

Speaker 1 It's they pay pretty young women, bar people pay pretty young women to sit at the bar, have a drink, and then the man buys them a drink, but it's not alcohol but they're charged for alcohol so they just keep drinking and like making the men keep buying drinks wow yeah oh that's great so like yeah they're just to keep the patrons coming and buying more drinks yeah makes sense you know so then susan who at this point is married she has a daughter as i said her name the daughter's name i'm just gonna call her chris because it's some kind of chris theon

Speaker 1 that I can't pronounce. And she goes by Chris.
Susan meets this man named Mark Hoffman. He had been born Bernie Laser Hoffman in 1934 in Missouri.
Laser? Laser. Okay.

Speaker 1 With a Z. That's kind of cool.
I mean. And he changed his name.
Like, you fucking changed. You changed your name to Laser.
Your name's Bernie Laser? You could do anything with your life.

Speaker 1 Mark was raised at Father Flanagan's Boys Town, which I'm sure was a very peaceful, calm,

Speaker 1 supportive. No problems there.
Nope. No sarcasm there.
Everything's fine.

Speaker 1 And after growing up and moving out to California, he becomes a low-level grifter

Speaker 1 and had several convictions for petty theft as well as for statutory rape. And so this guy, Mark, meets Susan in the early 60s.
She's 10 years older than him and kind of just a presence, right?

Speaker 1 So he falls for her. They fall for each other.
Even though Mark has no interest or knowledge of Christianity, he's like, I see what this does to people. I'm fucking all in.

Speaker 1 Like wants to be part of the mind controller thing. Yeah.
You know? Yeah. And he sees it as a business opportunity, really, because Susan does have this magnetism that draws people to her.

Speaker 1 She's very, it's like motherly, I don't know, there's something about it that people love. Susan and Mark divorce their spouses and they get married in Vegas in 1966.

Speaker 1 At this point, Susan's 41 and Mark is 32. Hmm.
So those are kind of crucial ages to be making. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Interesting. Susan really landed a young guy.
That's exciting.

Speaker 1 And it's kind of like, it does seem like her little fuckboy a little bit because like he's in the background of the photos of her like giving these amazing sermons with all the her crazy nails.

Speaker 1 And he does seem like a supportive little fuckboy. A supportive groupie.
Yeah. And I'm sure she just like

Speaker 1 wanted it. Good for her.

Speaker 1 To a point. Good for her to a point.
So

Speaker 1 good for her to a point. Yeah, good title.

Speaker 1 So they change their name.

Speaker 1 So he changes his name to Tony and they change her last name to alamo so from here on out it's susan and tony alamo the alamos begin preaching on the streets to young people in la

Speaker 1 they gain a ton of followers and you're like how did that happen they start operating out of a house in west hollywood on crescent and sunset which it's like that's where i get my hair done which i mean like i wonder which corner had a house because there's green blats there's a sunset five shop mini shopping center yeah then yeah so i think probably behind one of those places up Up in the hills a little bit?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 Kara Clank and Jared used to live right there too. Yeah.
There's like, there's some apartments buildings there. Yep.
So we're,

Speaker 1 yeah. Oh, that's right.
They had that great mid-century apartment. Yeah, that's nice.
Yes. I bet it's like right around there.
This is not, this is not relevant at all.

Speaker 1 It's not, but like you, it's like relevant for five people and you're one of them. Yep.
And we're in a, this is your our podcast. I'll text Kara after this and be like, guess what?

Speaker 1 All right. so I just love shit like that.
Well, that's the fun of like a it's like hometown true crime because it's like this actually happened here. We're not talking about some faraway place

Speaker 1 in the place where you can't convince someone to give you one dollar if you were short on gas. Right.
Somehow, these people came in and started changing hearts and minds on sunset.

Speaker 1 And it's a happening time. I'm at sunset, it was crawling, and they're just like, come a couple blocks away, and we have this apartment where you can, or a house, whatever, you can hang out with us.

Speaker 1 And because of that, very quickly, the city of West Hollywood takes issue with the over-occupancy of the house because, guess by 1970, there's a, it's a three-bedroom house.

Speaker 1 Guess how many people at 1970 at this point are living there?

Speaker 1 10. But it's over, they're mad because it's over-occupancy.
You're going with 10. Well, three to a bedroom?

Speaker 1 Five to a bedroom? 15.

Speaker 1 200. No, no, no.
And it's probably like people going in and out. You know, it's like, not everyone living at the same time, but 200.

Speaker 1 How? That's so gross. It's so gross.
There's like two old spinster sisters that live next door. We're like, another one's coming in.
Oh my god. They don't have shoes.
They've got their pet lizard.

Speaker 1 I'm thinking of the Simpsons sisters from the sisters.

Speaker 1 Another one's coming in. So like that alone would make me be like, no, thank you to this cult.
You know what I mean? You don't have a clean bathroom? No. Come on.
Where's the spaghetti dinner?

Speaker 1 I don't want to just hang out in a hot apartment. That's right.
So they are like, shit, we need to move. So by the early 70s, they wind up buying a compound out in the desert.

Speaker 1 Yes, very much like the Manson family. In fact, it's not far from there.
It's in a cult hotspot called Sagus, California. You know, Sagus? Sagus.
Just down the road from the Manson family.

Speaker 1 So they could like high-five on their way to being terrible. I mean,

Speaker 1 what a weird time. We think we live in a weird time,

Speaker 1 but like. Truly, like all of culture just ripped in half.
And then it was like, take these drugs and walk over there and see what happens.

Speaker 1 No one had ever lived that way like by the 90s it was like people had experienced experimented and lived that way and been through shit but that like 1960s on no you you couldn't go on an airplane without being in a suit you know what i mean like

Speaker 1 there's no alternative right there's no counterculture so it had to be mind-blowing to see that so counter and so like the way my mom used to be about like you're not wearing those jeans to the dentist and your mom you're talking about and it's like can you imagine what those poor people who like grew up in the Great Depression, they finally make money, they get, give the money to their kids, and their kids are like, hey, man,

Speaker 1 bye. Totally.
Or like, you don't understand me. Goodbye.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I want to do drugs too. I want to do drugs and I want to join whatever religion anyone offers me.
Totally.

Speaker 1 It's Sunset Boulevard. Totally.
And I believe it. I believe these people who like the trust then was much more

Speaker 1 trusting.

Speaker 1 And, you know, the thing we've learned about like the effervescence of being at a, at a, say, a music show with a bunch of people and you're like, an experience.

Speaker 1 They were having that like with religion where it's like a change. And the way you talk, you've talked about sociopaths being like commanding and you just want to follow them.
Yes.

Speaker 1 You've got to be a sociopath to be a fucking cult leader. We know that.
Yeah. Ablaniac.
If not full psychopath.

Speaker 1 If you have to say that like I'm talking to God directly and then God want me to tell you what to say. Like, come on, dude.
I can't even answer emails.

Speaker 1 I'm talking to God on the daily to tell you what to do. It's a lot of pressure.
Come on, Solata. Okay.
So, but they're into it. And so

Speaker 1 it's all the normal cult stuff that I won't get into, but you can watch in the documentary where they give them the hippies giving them the money, but they're also like, it's hippies.

Speaker 1 They don't have a lot of money. But like secretly, there are a lot of hippies probably who have like trust funds and shit.
So it works. There was

Speaker 1 some famous actresses. Who was it's daughter that like she pulled out of the manson it yeah murder she wrote

Speaker 1 I i think her daughter angela lansberry's daughter was like almost a manson near girl and then she got yanked like a musketeer or a mouse what's the mouse mousketeer musketeer yeah

Speaker 1 she got yanked right and then her mom was like and you absolutely i saw you use that credit card you will not be buying things for charles manson so um So they, they pay, you know, they give them all their paychecks.

Speaker 1 At this point, the religion has achieved tax-exempt status because they're a religious institution. That's the dream.
Yep. But conditions at this desert compound, guess how they are? They're horrific.

Speaker 1 Disgusting. They're disgusting.
There's many members that have babies and small children because they do this really smart thing where

Speaker 1 they are open to single mothers and they're like, we accept you. We won't judge you.
Come and like, this is a community that can take care of your children because that was so taboo at the time.

Speaker 1 However, they have no access to disposable diapers, but they also have no access to water to wash the cloth diapers. And people are sleeping about 125 in a room,

Speaker 1 you know, and I'm sure the rooms weren't very insulated or nice to begin with. There's no access pretty much to shower facilities.

Speaker 1 But meanwhile, Susan and Tony, guess what? They live in a nice house. Yeah.
And they're like going to Sax Fifth Avenue, buying expensive clothes, just they're living their good life. Yeah.

Speaker 1 She comes by and she's like, look, I bought a silk scarf. If anybody wants to borrow it for your baby.
Please.

Speaker 1 In a pit. Oh, God.

Speaker 1 but it's not just financial abuse taking place and this is where we it starts to get dark susan starts preaching to parents that their children will go to hell if they do not punish them for real or imagined offenses and the beatings begin and this becomes a key component of the church that will endure for decades before they're finally stopped so at this point in the 19 the mid-1970s susan's daughter chris

Speaker 1 who has children of her own, she even she is like, this is fucked up and leaves, like has to run and leave. Um, so that's how bad it is.

Speaker 1 Like, if your daughter, who's been with you for your entire life, is just suddenly like, oops, this is too much for me. Yeah, she's been born into the cult and she leaves.

Speaker 1 And she does that amazing thing where you don't try to sugarcoat or make your parents' sins seem reasonable. This woman is incredible.
She's very much just like, these fucking nuts. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's very good. So they also, though, like Susan and Tony are these larger-than-life, you know, Elvis and Dolly Parton-looking characters.
And she, again, is really good.

Speaker 1 So they have a weekly syndicated religious TV show. They even, they even perform or like they even do a sermon at the Grand Old Opry, like you and I did that one time.
Yeah. Remember?

Speaker 1 I bet our sermons were very similar. They were very similar.
So they're like mainstream and it gives them credit.

Speaker 1 And it kind of has like a musical variety show vibe and a lot of sequence, a lot of, you know, emphasis on the Bible, just like that crazy 70s Tammy Faye. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Then this attracts new members because people think it's respectable. They have TV time.
They have a real show. By 1975, the California authorities are like, hey, something's not right here.

Speaker 1 I don't think the workers are being paid.

Speaker 1 So Susan and Tony do the smart thing and get the fuck out of California and go to a place that's a little more chill about it, Arkansas.

Speaker 1 That's another thing for me. When they're like, let's get out of California.
I'd be like,

Speaker 1 I'm staying. My cult.
Yeah. My cult status really depends on location for sure.

Speaker 1 You know, beach access. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, yeah, because I feel like it's the old 30 rock, don't move to a second location idea where it's like, once you're going to a second location, what are you going to do? Bunker? Right.

Speaker 1 You're going to start talking about the end of the world. You're going to start talking about like doubling and tripling down on your dedication.
And you're isolated.

Speaker 1 So there's no like, if you leave the compound, you can, you're in Los Angeles, you can go wherever. Yeah.
There's, there's like services.

Speaker 1 Suddenly you're in Arkansas and they don't give a shit and you don't know anyone there. Yeah.
So it's kind of perfect.

Speaker 1 They choose a location near the Texas-Oklahoma border and they buy a compound, of course. They love compounds.

Speaker 1 And they also run several businesses in town, including a grocery store, a gas station, a restaurant. They kind of take over this small town.
They infiltrate them, as you would say.

Speaker 1 And the location is right off the highway.

Speaker 1 So they actually get a lot of business and they actually do really well, but it's more of a front because, like, this business gives this business the money to open the, you know, it's

Speaker 1 to hide the money. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And because of the TV show, and Tony's, Tony has some connections in the music industry, they also start getting big-name performers to play at the restaurant bar, including Dolly Parton, Tammy Wynette, and Roy Orberson.

Speaker 1 So all of those people

Speaker 1 come and perform there. And Bill Clinton even stops by.
He's the attorney general at the the time.

Speaker 1 And he and Hillary go on a date to this place. And Bill Clinton says something about how Tony Alamo is Roy Orbison on speed.
Oh, shit. So, you know, he's not hiding it well, I don't think.
But

Speaker 1 of course, all the businesses are staffed by members of the church who sign their paycheck over to Susan and Tony. So

Speaker 1 at this point, Susan had been using cancer as a tactic and the fact that she had been cured of cancer by God to get people to believe that she was blessed or something. That wasn't true at all.

Speaker 1 She never had cancer. She never had cancer and then she got cancer.
Oh. In 1975, she's diagnosed with breast cancer.

Speaker 1 And she dies at the age of 56 in 1982, dies from breast cancer. So suddenly it's over.

Speaker 1 And it's also a thing of like, but people thought she was blessed. And so her dying of cancer actually makes the whole religion look really bad.
Oh, Oh, right. You know what?

Speaker 1 Because she had been claiming that, like, the Lord had saved her. And then it didn't work.

Speaker 1 But then Tony just does this thing where he yells at the members and is like, it's because you didn't pray hard enough. Right.

Speaker 1 Like, that's just. That's when I'd be out.

Speaker 1 That's when I was. That's the thing.

Speaker 1 And I liked all this. I prayed hard.
You started blaming me. Right.
So, Tony, now this is the like second chapter of this cult and it gets really fucking dark. Warning.

Speaker 1 The content going on here is child sexual abuse, child rape,

Speaker 1 child abuse. So it gets culty and dark.

Speaker 1 Tony is now 48, and he, everyone's like, it's going to fall apart now because the person who was good at getting people to join and keeping them is dead. But

Speaker 1 he takes over as the sole leader of the Alamo Christian Foundation. Wow.
So Tony like kind of doesn't know what to do at first. And so he stalls for time by not burying Susan's body.

Speaker 1 Instead, he has her embalmed and and brought to the compound's main house and the members of the church are to pray over her open casket 24 hours a day, asking God to raise her from the dead.

Speaker 1 Like they think that's what's going to happen.

Speaker 1 This goes on for six months. Oh no.
Yeah. Her body sits there for six months.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's just such a tall order. Why would you not come back?

Speaker 1 Yes. It's like, can I get a nap? It's your first move after the woman who is making it all happen dies.

Speaker 1 You're the dark horse that no one actually believes in. And you're going to walk right up and be like, we're going to win the World Series.
Like, what are you doing? Right. Right.

Speaker 1 Did he do it? Is that what you're about to tell me? And so he did. And so he did.

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Goodbye.

Speaker 1 After six months, her body is breaking down, and the numbers are like, hey, hey, Tony, we hate to like, we hate to like question you, but. But her nose just fell off.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 I mean, God is a dead body. I know.
I know. That's horrible.

Speaker 1 And people are praying over it 24 hours a day and it's their fault that it didn't happen, not that God doesn't exist or that she's not blessed or whatever.

Speaker 1 So he builds her a heart-shaped mausoleum on the compound property. Okay.
A little more responsible. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then at the same time, things are dicey on the business. And three weeks after Susan's death, a lawsuit against the foundation by the Department of Labor goes to trial.

Speaker 1 Basically, you know, they're like, you're not paying your

Speaker 1 employees. And

Speaker 1 the district court determines that the foundation owes its worker $19 million in back wages and overtime. In 1970s money? Yeah.
Do we know how much it would be in today's money?

Speaker 1 No, Allie didn't let me know. But wait, wait, I do.
Yes, I do. Yes, I do.
Yes, I do. Allie let me know.

Speaker 1 What a turn.

Speaker 1 allie elkin i just threw you under the bus even though there was no bus 19 million in back wages and overtime and then in 80s money is

Speaker 1 okay you said 19 million 19 million and it's like it's like you know late 70s early 80s or mid-80s i think at this point i never get these right no no no early 80s early 80s 82.

Speaker 1 like that's gonna fucking i know early 80s early 80s 19 million uh-huh is it 50 million

Speaker 1 63.

Speaker 1 That's not, but you're in the ballpark. At least I'm in the ballpark.
You know what I mean? But remember the other day when you got it right. I got it right.
8 million. Oh, man.

Speaker 1 Tony appeals the case, blah, blah, blah. The IRS comes around and they're like, what? This isn't right.
And so

Speaker 1 much money. If the IRS is like, this looks excessive,

Speaker 1 then

Speaker 1 you're not doing it right. Something terrible.

Speaker 1 This looks excessive. Yeah.
So after marrying Susan, Tony is in and out of town. He goes back to LA a lot.
He basically marries a woman named Brigitta, who owns a like clothing shop in Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 He kind of does a number on her, it seems. She's like from Sweden and she falls in love with, you know, the rich Christian televangelist type of guy, whatever, whatever.

Speaker 1 But she is brought back to the compound. Everyone's like, she looks exactly like Susan.
They think that he maybe was using her to like.

Speaker 1 pretend that Susan came back, but she's a fucking Swedish accent. It's not her.

Speaker 1 Oh, so there's, I mean, that makes a lot of sense because it's like in the middle of all this, the psychopath falls in love. And it's like, oh, no, it's just one more tool in his tool belt.

Speaker 1 She looks like her.

Speaker 1 And she does,

Speaker 1 she is an atheist, but that doesn't stop her from moving to the compound with him. And

Speaker 1 yeah, she's not good at.

Speaker 1 being a preacher like Susan was, but she is a good businesswoman and she's into clothing. And so she

Speaker 1 so she winds up setting Tony on the course for the foundation's most famous business venture

Speaker 1 in 1984. Okay, do you remember like picture Mike Tyson in the jean jacket with like rhinestones and like a spray-painted like Tasmanian devil that had been fucking bedazzled.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And those were like the big jack, the big jean jackets, those were a hit back then. Yes, they were.
Like they were a big part of it. Or they have the Hollywood,

Speaker 1 like spray or spray-painted Hollywood, you know, sign sign or the Las Vegas, and then they were all bedazzled and shit. Yeah.
That's this fucking cult.

Speaker 1 They fucking made these and they got fucking famous. What was the name of that brand? It was called

Speaker 1 Tony Alamo of Nashville is the name of the business venture. Classic psychopath move put your whole name there.
Totally. Like Alamo sounds better, but no, you won't know it.

Speaker 1 Tony Alamo, it's like a Giorgio Armani of Beverly Hills or whatever. Exactly.
And like 1990? This is the 80s. No, in 84.
84, they start selling these denim jackets.

Speaker 1 Airbrush. That's what it is.
Okay. Hand bedazzled with rhinestones.
And they become wildly popular.

Speaker 1 They're sold in high-end department stores and boutiques.

Speaker 1 And the brand is Alamo, clothing brand. They have a flagship store in Nashville.
Wow. They make customized jackets for like Dolly Parton, Mr.
T, Brooke Shields, of course.

Speaker 1 Michael Jackson gets a leather version and wears it on on the cover of Bad. That's next time you see the cover of Bad, that's a cult's jacket.
Oh my God. So it gets...

Speaker 1 This is the last thing this cult needed. Yeah, going to go viral.
Yes, exactly. Just a huge influx of cash.
Right, right.

Speaker 1 And legitimacy, again.

Speaker 1 So here's the thing about the jackets, though, like every other alamo venture, they're being made. with unpaid labor of the members.

Speaker 1 And in this case, it's almost all being done by the children of the foundation because they've got those little fingers that can pick up those little fucking rhinestones

Speaker 1 and glue them on. Yes.
The kids living on the Arkansas compound, they're bused to a facility each night where they hand bedazzle and hand airbrush every jacket. Each night.
Yeah. In secret.
Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And read and hand, it's like they can say they're handmade, 100% handmade, but they don't tell you how little those hands are.

Speaker 1 So those little fingers going around, the jackets sell for around $600 each, which in today's money. $2,500? $1,500.
More than $1,500 in today's money. So $1,500 for a fucking jean jacket.
Insane.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Of course, those child workers are never paid. And the Department of Labor is very suspicious, but they can't prove anything.
The IRS ultimately revokes the foundation's tax exempt status.

Speaker 1 And Tony, who had been spending lavishly this whole time, doesn't have the resources to pay those back taxes because you have to pay them.

Speaker 1 And so Tony, it almost seems like at this point, people are after him, but he's got this like, like things are feeding his ego still.

Speaker 1 He becomes this like megalomaniac and he spirals deeper and deeper. And with that comes more violence against his followers.
And then also he divorces the lookalike. Regita.

Speaker 1 Regita goes hopefully home to LA and lives a great life. Who knows? But she's the reason those jackets worked.
Hopefully she got a, she's in the documentary and she looks like she's in a lavish spot.

Speaker 1 So hopefully she got a cut in the divorce. All green screen.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 She's actually wearing. She's wearing just a green cloth from here down.

Speaker 1 So beatings and abuse are actually kind of normal already in the foundation. It's happened since the beginning.
But in this period, the late 80s, after Susan's death, things get way worse.

Speaker 1 And it's just awful. Children are subjected to intense beating at Tony's direction.

Speaker 1 Tony threatens that if parents or other adults in the cult don't beat their children as punishment for real or imagined misbehavior, he'll beat the parents instead.

Speaker 1 But, you know, over and over, these ex-members say, we really believe that he was the Messiah. Like we 100%

Speaker 1 believed that he was basically God.

Speaker 1 Because, you know, the Messiah, when he comes back to the earth, is immediately going to start making jean jackets with bedazzle or bedazzle decorations on the back.

Speaker 1 And definitely when Jesus comes back, he's going to make a paddle that has holes in it for you and your followers to beat children with.

Speaker 1 There's a thing, there's a trend on TikTok right now, and it's people with their little kids, like four and five years old, and they go, finish this phrase, we're going to play.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 I brought you into this world because I love you. And you're just like, oh, it's like girls should be fun, loved.

Speaker 1 It's like, we just had it hard. It's bad.
When I read that, my mom used to spank us. And when it was bad, it was the wooden spoon.
Yeah. Which I just like, I'm traumatized from that.

Speaker 1 I can't use a wooden spoon. Yeah.
And when you were really bad, so my brother got it a lot, but I got it a few times too. The wooden spoon with the cutouts in it, holes in it.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Because the wind, there was something about the like force of it that was different and it hurt worse. Yeah.
The wooden spoon with the holes was you did something really fucking bad.

Speaker 1 The regular wooden spoon.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was not. It's not good.
That's awful. I'm sorry.
The only reason I didn't ever get that, and I I was prime candidate is because both my parents had such bad.

Speaker 1 I mean, my dad had great parents, but I think they got smacked around. My mom definitely did.
So

Speaker 1 that was their rule to each other. Stop with me.
We don't hit little kids. Don't hit chill.
You don't use violence to try to fucking parent children.

Speaker 1 It's so obvious.

Speaker 1 It's so obvious.

Speaker 1 But it really wasn't back then until, and then there was one day when I was 17 and I was so awful obnoxious.

Speaker 1 and my mom tried to spank me because she had just bought me all these clothes and I like tried them on and left them on the floor and she was like pick those clothes up and I was like I'm leaving and then she grabbed my arm and was walking around to smack my butt and I just was going what are you doing stop it and just like oh my god what are you doing and I was like later on only later on did I realize like

Speaker 1 You just didn't realize how good you had it. You didn't realize what those people were fucking doing for you every day.
You can't start at 17, though. So you can't start

Speaker 1 smacking your child at 17. I was already smoking cloves.

Speaker 1 I was headed for juice. It's too late.

Speaker 1 They are who they are at that point, and it's kind of your fault. It's fully your fault, parent.

Speaker 1 And the parents also say that they believe that beatings were going to save their children from going to hell. Because remember, hell was a big part of this.

Speaker 1 Hell's a big part of Christianity, it turns out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So they actually think, you know, who knows how much, but

Speaker 1 they convince themselves that they're helping their children to not go to hell. Yeah.
Um, and that paddle that he uses with the holes drilled into it, he nicks, Tony nicknames the board of education.

Speaker 1 Boo, not funny, real clever.

Speaker 1 Go to hell.

Speaker 1 Beatings are so severe that children lose consciousness.

Speaker 1 So in the late 80s, a man named Carrie Miller leaves the cult with his brother, but the wives are like, we're not leaving, and keep the children. And this guy's in the documentary prominently.

Speaker 1 They wind up going, basically, they get a court order to get the kids out. And so the kids are freed.

Speaker 1 But the whole story gets a fair amount of media attention because Carrie Miller's son gets beaten severely. And that gets out in the media.
And so it becomes a big public story.

Speaker 1 And I think at the time, too, there's like the satanic panic. There's some, you know, like, there's some backlash from Manson and Jonestown.

Speaker 1 And so people are like scrutinizing cults a little more, maybe. Yeah.
And probably, I think child abuse as a concept was really coming to the fore. There was was that episode of different strokes.

Speaker 1 A hundred percent. It was like this thing of like, we all have to really reckon with this problem.
It's up to us. It's not, it's not a secret.
Yeah. If you don't let it be, that's how it survives.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So at this point, Tony in 1988, he's just like, fuck it, and goes on the run. But he's able to control the cult still remotely over the phone.
He sends orders back to the compound in Arkansas.

Speaker 1 He doesn't show up for a civil case in Arkansas and the court decides against him. And at this point, the FBI raids the Arkansas property.
Thanks to seize assets. No, not.
No, not thank God.

Speaker 1 Not yet. Oh.
Yeah. And so basically, everyone abandons the compound before they can get there.

Speaker 1 And also, so no one's there and no one gets caught.

Speaker 1 But it turns out that he also has someone break into the mausoleum where Susan is buried and steal the casket because they think like they're going to, I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 1 They take the casket with them because they're like, we need to keep her body safe. Is this gross of me to say that's kind of romantic?

Speaker 1 At least he meant it, that he really was into her. It almost is like they,

Speaker 1 from the way they talk about it, it sounds like he did believe that she was,

Speaker 1 you know, holy. Yeah.
And so if they left her holy body there,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 the government would get it. Okay.
And this is a time too, and I don't think people understand this when like the government and religion weren't best friends and in line.

Speaker 1 They were actually against each other. They were very far apart.
Right. Remember that? Yeah, I do.
So extremist religions didn't have the ear of the president and the government at the time.

Speaker 1 They were actually against each other. Yes.
So I know it sounds like nowadays we know that they're, right? Yes. So they were scared of them.
Right.

Speaker 1 And they were scared of taking this holy woman's body in their mind. Yeah.
There had to be some white powder going on for Tony.

Speaker 1 You can't make all that money off of Tony Olamo of Beverly Hills or whatever bullshit jackets. In the 80s.
In the 80s and not be like, I'm sure he was living large in every way possible. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Line him up. Yeah.
Literally. Yeah.
So the paranoia of we need to get her body out of there actually makes total sense.

Speaker 1 And also that's always part of the decline of a cult is like this psychopath that's in charge is like, and you said megalomania. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's just like ingest all of it, keep on, keep the believe-in going. Yeah.
Right. So now everyone's scattered.

Speaker 1 They're still members, though. They still fucking believe in him.
And they're still. It's hard to change.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's hard to like give up on a thing that you've devoted so much of your life to and believed in. You went all in on it.
All in. And to say no now is, yeah, to admit you're a fucking idiot.

Speaker 1 Tony gives orders to the church over the phone. No one knows where he is.
The IRS winds up seizing all of Tony's assets, including that. store in the in Nashville where the jackets are made.

Speaker 1 And then while he's on the run, he's quoted in a newspaper because, of course, he always calls the press to tell him, tell them how misaligned and how fucked up everyone's against him. Sure.

Speaker 1 And during one of those calls, he basically threatens an Arkansas judge, which you can't fucking do. No, that's not allowed.
You cannot do that. Don't do it.
This prompts the U.S.

Speaker 1 Marshal to issue a major manhunt to track him down. So you fucked with the wrong.

Speaker 1 I don't know, department. Yeah.
So in 1991, federal agents examine the phone records. But basically, they track him down with phone calls from cell phone towers all the way back in 91, right?

Speaker 1 Which is like surprising. They find him in Tampa, Florida.

Speaker 1 And long story short, they eventually hit on a particular address, stake out the house, see Tony come out to pick up his morning newspaper, and they raid the house.

Speaker 1 They find Tony sitting at the table in sunglasses and a tie-dye shirt. And there's a photo of him like being, or the video of him being let out in his like tie-dye.
He looks very like,

Speaker 1 yeah, it's like it's, it's old Elvis for sure. Yeah.
Yeah. But in a tie-dye.
So it's confusing. That's a good cover.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Stacks of cash all over the table, but no Susan's body. Oh.
It's not there. They don't know where it is.
Okay. Tony's charged with child abuse in California for the beatings.

Speaker 1 Also charged with federal tax evasion.

Speaker 1 Essentially, the tax evasion. This is like so horrible and wrong, but like that is easier to try and actually get a conviction for than child abuse.

Speaker 1 So they're like, let's get him in like locked up now on that and we can worry about the child abuse stuff later. Right.

Speaker 1 That's the, well, it's not comparatively directly, but that's the old, I think, right, Al Capone, how they, how they exactly that, yeah. Things you can actually prove.
Right. Right.

Speaker 1 So he goes to prison.

Speaker 1 He gets six years, I think, in prison. And the cult doesn't disband.
They take orders from him from prison.

Speaker 1 He's somehow allowed to use a phone and they record sermons and they play them for all the members and people come to see him and they move into the town.

Speaker 1 They move into the town near the prison so they can be ready when he gets out. Whoa.
Yeah. Off the compound and to the prison.
Yes. And so through the early 90s, new members continue to join.

Speaker 1 New members continue to join. And

Speaker 1 during this time when he's in prison in the early 90s,

Speaker 1 He starts to drop little hints that it's okay for a man to have multiple wives. Oh.
There we go. Where to get that? I do like a meeting.
The Bible. Oh, okay.
Don't Don't you know? It's there.

Speaker 1 And little by little, his members start to accept this. He decrees that he's entitled to have multiple wives.
If you say child brides, I'm going to get up and walk out of this podcast studio.

Speaker 1 Kid brides.

Speaker 1 So I don't want you to walk up and leave. Get up and leave.
I have to say. But you have to say.
Child brides. Yeah.
Does he really say that? Yes. Right before.

Speaker 1 I did see this documentary. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He starts to introduce teenage girls from the cult as his wives and then goes on to say, like, you know, once they hit puberty the Bible says they can be wives that kind of thing so yeah so puberty don't go younger than that please so yeah so he recruits teenage girls to work at his house while he's in prison

Speaker 1 which basically means marrying Tony you know they do the like fake ceremony you're married it's sexual assault and then

Speaker 1 but the parents can like those kids have been raised in the cult and their parents consider it an honor and they're excited about them marrying their daughters, their young daughters marrying Tony.

Speaker 1 The victims at this point, most of them who were born in the 90s, were born into this cult, so that's all they know.

Speaker 1 And so they think it's okay, or they think they have to, they think they're going to hell if they don't.

Speaker 1 They visit him in prison and bring photos of the children that are still in the church so he can select other victims. Like, he just becomes this

Speaker 1 monster, a monster, and a groomer, and a fucking child abuser. In 1998, now in his 60s, Tony is released from prison.
As a requirement of his release, he has to return Susan's body.

Speaker 1 It has to happen. Wow.
Yeah. And so he denies ever having it.
But right when he is released, the casket is anonymously delivered to an Arkansas funeral home.

Speaker 1 Where was it? We don't know where it was. Also, doesn't it only mean something to him? Are they saying, like, you just can't have this dead body? Yes.
Okay. Like desecration of a corpse.

Speaker 1 And then meanwhile, her daughter and her family are like, we want to be able to spare, you know, it's like, you can't, you can't fucking do that. That makes sense.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So once Tony's out of prison, he continues to quote, marry girls from the church and, of course, rape and sexually abuse them.

Speaker 1 Also, physically and verbally abuses them. He does this with 24 girls that become his wife.

Speaker 1 This is just like, and it's part of the documentary, and she's in it. And she's so strong and so admirable.
The youngest one is eight years old. Oh, man.
And I mean,

Speaker 1 these women who are in the documentary and end up testifying against him are so freaking strong and incredible. They were raised with this mindset.

Speaker 1 They didn't join the cult themselves when they were lost teenagers. It was the only world they knew.
And their parents were telling them that they would go to hell if

Speaker 1 you know. Or that it was this honor, this we've been picked and it's so special.
Totally, exactly. So nine of the 24 girls are under 18 years old.

Speaker 1 He continues to use the Bible to justify this and they're all kept isolated in Tony's home. It's the thing you always hear about.

Speaker 1 But concerned ex-members start to make complaints to the FBI about the abuse.

Speaker 1 But in order to prove the case, the FBI needs at least one of the current victims to come forward, which is of course terrifying to them. A lot of their families are still in the cult.

Speaker 1 In 2006, a woman named Amy Eddy, who's in the documentary, who's 22 and was first married to Tony at 14,

Speaker 1 She escapes and flees to Oklahoma. The whole time she believes that God is going to strike her down for leaving him and send her to hell.
And then a 15-year-old named Desiree Kolbeck escapes as well.

Speaker 1 She gets help from her aunt to leave because her mom also is still in the cult. So

Speaker 1 being 15 years old and being like, I need to escape this abuse.

Speaker 1 Like, what pushes you to that? What horrors have you seen? Exactly. And, like, it's better for me, for God to like smite me than for me to keep saying how to care anymore.
Right.

Speaker 1 And Desiree had been the eight-year-old victim who is now 15. Both women are approached by the FBI.
Initially, Amy is too scared, but Desiree,

Speaker 1 she is terrified too, but she agrees to testify against Tony because her sister, her little sister, is still in the cult. And she's like, I need to save her.
Yes.

Speaker 1 She testifies that Tony took photos of his victims, of course, many of whom were underage, and also took the girls across state lines. So, like, that's enough because those are federal crimes.

Speaker 1 So, they're able to create a strong federal case against Tony finally. Yeah.
Okay. So finally in 2008, federal agents raid Tony's house in, it's called Falk, Arkansas.
Falk. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 It's pronounced Falk. Falk.
Tony's not there. He knew the raid was going to happen, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 They don't find the photos Desiree had been talking about, but they find other incriminating things like a lot of wedding rings and like boxes of ovulation tests, just like creepy as shit. Gross.

Speaker 1 And also, just a sign that, like, it's we're now at the end of the line with this cult leader. It's like, this is the

Speaker 1 usual windout, right? Where it always goes to child brides. It always goes to, yeah, he did it.
He did what? He did the whole thing. He did the whole switch.
Yeah. Dead body.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 So he's 74 at this point and fucking gross. Obviously.
Lifelong. Yeah.
And so he has a secret cell phone now again. FBI.
Basically, they find him at a hotel in Flagstaff, Arizona.

Speaker 1 He's indicted on 10 counts of interstate transportation of a minor for sex.

Speaker 1 And in addition to Desiree, Amy does get over her fear and ultimately testifies against him, as do three other so-called wives.

Speaker 1 By the time the case goes to trial, at least 30 people are willing to testify against him. So they finally like, let's end this.

Speaker 1 And many of the witnesses still have family in the cult, but they're just, they now know what's actually going on. Or, you know, yeah.

Speaker 1 So Tony is found guilty on all counts in 2009 and sentenced to the rest of his life in federal prison.

Speaker 1 He also loses a civil case against his victims and is ordered to pay more than $1.1 billion to them. Wow.
Tony dies in prison in 2017, but the church isn't completely defunct.

Speaker 1 Despite all of that, it still has some locations, and they continue to recruit new members. As recently as 2018, there was a chapter in New York City.
Like, wow. Yeah.
What do you need? It's crazy.

Speaker 1 Therapy. And unfortunately, as recently as 2018, when everything had come out about the foundation, those now vintage llama jean jackets

Speaker 1 have a resurgence among celebrities. So I'm not going to say who they are because maybe they don't know about the abuse.
Right. It might not be because

Speaker 1 it's just like an 80s thing and they don't know the background. So I won't say it.
But one recently sold for $950 on Etsy.

Speaker 1 I mean, to me, that makes me think of like the John Wayne Gacy painting selling. Exactly.
There are those people that are like, can you believe I'm doing this? It's so taboo. Totally, totally.

Speaker 1 And that is the story of the Alamo Christian Foundation. Oh my God.

Speaker 1 The documentary, again, is called Ministry of Evil, The Twisted Cult of Tony Alamo. We binged it.
I mean, Jesus fucking Christ. Unbelievable.
It just wouldn't end. No.
Like,

Speaker 1 Like, pick a, pick a, pick a, like, this is as far as I go. And write it in your diary.
Me playing a psychopath. No, I will not.
I will. Not only that, I'll succeed.
I mean the members, though.

Speaker 1 I don't mean the head. Right.
But once you're in, I mean, like, that's that thing where it's like people have to be deprogrammed to get out of cults. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the deprogramming, like there's actually a guy who becomes a deprogrammer in that time period and the tactics they use are like fucking horrible. Like, oh, the kidnapping

Speaker 1 yeah it's bad it's not any better everything is so bad everything

Speaker 1 been so bad for so long yeah everyone's like uh this is the worst time in history and it's like no

Speaker 1 history is the worst time it's been pretty bad it's been bad for a lot of people for a long time speaking of which did i just save my story for the next episode yeah because that was a lot and that was plenty and great i know i'm sorry that was so long but you took time yeah do you want to do a solo next week i liked it absolutely Fuck yeah.

Speaker 1 Hell yeah. Our homework's done.

Speaker 1 We love that.

Speaker 1 Thank you for joining our cult. It's funny that we did it.
Oh my God. I didn't even realize.
We did a pitch to join our cult. Yeah.
The fan cult. And then I did a cult story.

Speaker 1 We've just talked shit on cults the whole time. But I mean, come on.
This is a fun cult. Did the Alamo cult have ad-free podcast episodes? I don't think so, ladies and gentlemen.
No, they didn't.

Speaker 1 Did you get a discount on merch? Did you get first access to live show tickets from the Alamos?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 Italian hand gesture. No.
Good or bad Italian hand gesture.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 we'll meet you next time. Yeah, thank you guys for listening to that long-ass story of horrible things.
We appreciate you so much. We love you dearly.
Stay sexy. And don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.
Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Liana Squolachi.

Speaker 1 Our researchers are Maren McGlashen and Allie Elkin. Email your hometowns to myfavorite murder at gmail.com.
Follow the show on Instagram at MyFavorite Murder.

Speaker 1 Listen to MyFavorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page.

Speaker 1 While you're there, please like and subscribe. Goodbye.

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