471 - The Knife

This is exactly right. members can get volume discounts on eligible orders through a quote of $2,000 or more.
Join for free today. Lowe's, we help.
You save. Exclusions, more terms, and restrictions apply.
Program subject to terms and conditions. Details at lowes.com slash terms.
Subject to change. At T.
Rowe Price, our experience helps us see investment potential differently. Instead of fast answers, we understand the true road to confident investing is curiosity.
It's what It us to ask smart questions about our ever-changing world. Like, how can clean water transform farmland? Can healthcare innovations create a healthier world? How will AI be a part of a new tomorrow? Our curiosity runs deep, and with it comes the power to help you invest more confidently.
Better questions, better outcomes. T.
Rowe Price. Invest with confidence.
Learn more at troprice.com slash curiosity. Amazon One Medical presents Painful Thoughts.
Do they ever actually clean the ball pit at these kids play gyms? Or is my kid just swimming in a vat of bacteria catching whatever cootie of the day is breeding in there? A cootie that'll probably take down our whole family.

Luckily, with Amazon One Medical 24-7 virtual care,

you can get checked out for whatever bald-pit-itis you've contracted.

Amazon One Medical.

Healthcare just got less painful. My favorite murder Hello! And welcome to My Favorite Murder.
That's Georgia Hartstar. That's Karen Kilgariff.
And today, we have some very special guests to show you. They are luminaries in the true crime podcast space.
You probably know them from their work on the amazing podcast, The Opportunist. And now they have a brilliant new podcast that's going to be living right here in our little universe of exactly right media.
It's called The Knife and it premieres on March 27th. We're so excited to have Paisha Eaton and Hannah Smith here with us from the Knife podcast.
Yes.

This has been so thrilling, so exciting. We finally got to tell everyone.
And now you're here on the network. Welcome.
It's the best feeling. We're so excited.
So excited. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. When you guys came with this idea, we were it was like a hard yes.

Immediately. Of course.
What made you guys come up? Like, what was your because you came off the opportunist. You still wanted to do true crime, but this is like kind of heavier, darker stuff.
Like what made you want to get into that that world a little more? Yeah. So, you know, we had a lot of time doing the opportunist to sort of think about what it is that we like about the stories that we're telling.
And we spent a lot of time focusing on these bigger season stories where we're interviewing eight to 10 people, which is fantastic and a great way to tell stories. But Patia and I would talk a lot about an interview that we did with like one victim of a crime that would stick with us.
And we would end up having to cut so much of that in order to serve this bigger story. And we would talk about like, but this could be a story in and of itself.
This could be an episode. And so when we decided to do a show together, we thought about that and wanted to do like more personal, intimate and more in-depth stories with people whose lives have been impacted by a crime.
And so that we can hear the whole story from the incident all the way through the aftermath and just really sit with those stories and give them time and space. Yeah.
Yeah. It became really apparent that when someone was the victim of a crime, that crime was then like, what's the word, reverberating throughout their life.
Even when we would talk to people where something happened 10, 20 years before, it was like still just so recent for them in a way. And that felt really powerful to us.
And also just the freedom to tell stories that weren't in such a specific lens, like on our last show, which was really cool, but also left us with like, we'd send each other articles and it's like, oh, it doesn't fit the show. And we didn't want to be bound by that anymore.
And we just thought, I wonder if Karen and Georgia would hear this pitch. Yes we were like, hell, yes.
Hannah, when you were on My Favorite Murder, I think it was like three years ago or wasn't that COVID? Oh, my God. It was a long time ago.
A blur. 25 years ago.
That was one of our most popular episodes. Of course, I have listened to every episode of The Opportunist, which I know you also produced and worked on too.
So yeah, I mean, you guys, the second Danielle was like, oh, Hannah Smith and Patia Eaton have a pitch. We're just like, the answer's yes.
If they have a podcast about popcorn, the answer is yes. Well, that was our next pitch.
We're so happy to hear that. Yay.
That's the sequel. Yeah, exactly.
We're going hard for kettle corn. Yeah.
Very controversial. Did you guys meet on The Opportunist? Is that where you first started working together? We did.
Yeah. We met on The Opportunist.
I emailed the CEO of the company that oversaw The Opportunist owned that show and I was like, I want to in podcasting but I've never done it before like would you can I interview on something and I ended up getting an associate producer interview on the show didn't get it yeah that's right I was like no way I did not make that decision persistence is everything yeah and uh yeah, from then on, I joined the Opportunist in April of 2021. Yeah.
Yeah. And so I did the first season.
So you came on season two. And, you know, I had been that was like the biggest break of my career at that point.
I've been working in podcasting since 2017. And I had also been thinking a lot about like wanting a creative partner.
You know, I worked, I'd been around people that had creative partnerships, had really like, you know, envied that and hoped for that. And Pasha came to start working on the show.
And even though it was like her first foray into podcasting, she'd worked in film and television a lot. She's, you know, a great writer and was doing this career transition, which is something that I had also done into podcasting a few years before.
So it just as soon as we met, it was like, oh, we're both like on this same trajectory and we're fascinated by the same kind of stories. And it was just this instant sort of feeling of like, oh, yeah, we're going to be making things together.
And so it's just so exciting that now we're doing that with our own show. It's real.
I love that. It's the best thing ever.
Yeah. When I first started working with Hannah, you know, I was just an associate producer and I was like, can I just start giving feedback on scripts? And so I was really comfortable with that working in scripted TV.
And so I was just like, Hannah, here's an alt for all your narration. Just take it or leave it.
And eventually it was like, OK, I like that. And from there, you know, the show was a success.
And we were like, we want to make something else, but we don't have any time. And then all of a sudden we did.
I love that you guys have this like perfect, this combination of the like podcast, like wanting to be in podcasting and then the pandemic kind of overlapping and it's just this like really cool I don't know like this like drive that you both had that just you made it happen you made and it's just so impressive and like I'm it's so cool it is I was gonna ask you got rejected the first interview what did you go back immediately? Like I would if I didn't get I remember interviewing at the warehouse when I was 17 and I didn't get the job and I'm still really upset about it.

I, you know, I was like, I wanted the job and I remember being disappointed, but I also still had a job at that point. I was working at a production company that was under a pod at Warner Brothers.
And I wasn't in like, OK, I need a job right now, which was helpful. But I also, you know, at that point was like, there are other podcast jobs.
And so I started applying and I didn't get those either. But it gave me hope because at that point, podcasting was like, you know, there was this boom that happened because especially with the pandemic, being able to make things remotely was everything.

You can't do that in TV. Right.
And so I just kept applying and actually someone from that company reached out and I interviewed again. And, you know, desperation.
And I got the job. Yes.
But you had experience by then because you did the really cool thing of just and I think this is is, we can totally relate to, of just like, well, then I'm going to do it on my own. Yeah.
And you did that and, you know, prove your point that you're like, this is where you should be. Yeah.
It was like this moment for me of, I had tried really hard to like, make it as a TV writer and I had been in a couple of comedy rooms and that was so exciting. I was a writer assistant that I got my first credit and I'm in the WGA and then nothing.
Right. And that was just, you know, I, I wanted more control over being able to like get a job if I was working really hard and getting better at it.
And so podcasting gave me that. So yeah, I found a missing persons case.
I spent all my extra time working on it and I just just kind of taught myself how to like, not be offended when someone hangs up on you and ask the right questions and like,

find people's information online. You guys are so good at that.
I'm so impressed. And it like,

makes me sweat listening to you guys talk about like cold calling people. Yeah.
But you both do

it in a way that is like, so kind. You don't spring things on people.
You don't have that everyday like predatory thing. Yeah.
Some we're not trying to like get people. We're not.
Gotcha. We got some information out of you.
You know, we really want people to feel comfortable and open up to us. But it does mean you have to get a lot out in like 20 seconds

before they're like, I think this might be a spam call and hang up on you. Yeah.
My area code is like Maple Valley, Washington. And they're like, excuse me, who? You live in Los Angeles? Click.
You think that helps that it's like Washington? You know, only if it's someone in Washington, but sometimes it is. Yeah.
It's it's a I think it's just you have to get a little more comfortable with being hung up on people telling you not to call back and just accept that like that's their prerogative and it's part of it. But most of the time people will hear you out whether or not they agree to interview.
And that was something that was really exciting to me. I'm like, I get to just be nosy.
Yeah. This is unbelievable.
I love this. But then when those interviews actually take place, in your first episode, in your interviewing Darune about her attack, there's this amazing part when I was listening to it for the first time where she is speaking for a while.
And getting people to really talk about these experiences is, I'm sure, a very delicate thing. She's talking and talking.
And then you ask one quick question. I was like, she's there.
Hannah is there. So it's like you're not directing it.
You're not interrupting or anything. Like clearly you are leading that conversation in this way where you're allowing people to kind of open up to you.
How did you learn that skill? I don't know how I learned that skill. I think like maybe, I'm not sure.
I mean, sometimes our interviews go for a very long time. And sometimes I'm like, well, maybe if I were a better interviewer, I could really accomplish this in one hour instead of two and a half.
But I just think like listening to people, being able to like, you know, just create that space and let people talk about an experience that they've been through that sometimes is like very traumatic and hard for them to talk about.

but one thing we've also encountered a lot is that you know especially like a lot of times when we interview people who had been scammed they would say things like wow you know people in

my life knew that this happened to me, but like no one's really taken the time to sit down and just let me like tell the whole thing. And that feels good that we're able to let people do that.
We're able to hear their story as well as share it with the world. And yeah, I mean, that's a meaningful thing to me.
So yeah, I don't know.

I mean, before we do an interview, we, you know, do whatever amount of research makes sense for that story and have questions prepared. And sometimes we ask two of these questions because they get answered on their own.
But it's really like, what is something that we think is really interesting about this person's story or the way that they reacted to something that happened to them? And so those kinds of questions are always top of mind when we're listening. But I think it's also we tell them before the interview, like, we want this to be your story.
We're going to help guide you through telling it because, you know, jumping around through time, oh, I remembered this thing that happened and we want to be there to help them and make them feel comfortable. But, you know, we try really hard to just keep it as authentic as possible.
Yeah. Yeah.
You guys have some really, it's a hard job. Your first episode with Jeroen is so, I mean, emotional.
It's this awful attack that she, I mean, fought back like a badass, but experienced. Tell us more about the season and the episodes that you guys are going to be doing.
Is it just kind of more of these incredible cases? Yeah. I mean, we have, you know, that's part of our drive for doing this kind of show is all manner of stories.
And, you know, we have people like Darun who, you know, they're on a morning run and something awful happens to them and they're fighting for their life. And then there's the aftermath of that.
We have people who are in a domestic violence situation with a spouse and the complications of that because you own a home with someone, you have children with someone.

And how do you get out of that situation?

Or how did this person get out of that situation? And then, you know, we love a scam story. Love a scam.
Cult story. Cult stories.
We have a wrongful conviction story coming up that is really powerful. Great.
Identity theft. We're going to try to cover a lot of different types of crimes are really like unifying theme is the approach that we take to storytelling and just hearing firsthand from someone who whose life was altered because of a crime.
It's cool. Amazing.
If you were forced and you might be to do a different podcast of any genre.

Popcorn aside. I mean, yeah, we've got the popcorn on the decks that's being that's in development now.

But have you ever thought of doing just going completely out of the genre and doing anything different? I mean, I could talk about anything Bravo for sure.

But no, I mean, I we have just spent so much time at the like over the last year and seven months working on true crime podcasts it would feel so unusual yeah yeah i could talk about anything bravo that's what i could bring that to the table i could do a survivor podcast i love survivor yeah it's a good show so, maybe even though we watch different television. Very different television.
There's some slight overlap within true crime, really. Yeah, that's true.
But I've been trying to get Hannah to watch The Real Half-Swise, for example, to no avail. Hasn't happened yet.
I feel like it hasn't happened. Fight the good fight.
Yeah. Well, but the off-record episode is a little bit different.
It is kind of, it is new for you guys. Right.
Something that is a little more like chatty and and less fully produced, fully journalistic. For you guys listening, we have they have the episode, full episode of The Knife.
And then the off record episodes are kind of the it's almost like the kind of like a mailbag. episode or like a recap episode from the main episode like a more info yeah you know we've sort

of the, it's almost like the... Kind of like a mailbag episode or like a recap episode from the main episode.
Or like a more info. Yeah.
You know, we've sort of liked to think of them as it could be a lot of different things. We love the idea of mailbag, answering listener questions and being able to interact with people in that way.
We also, you know, we're going to talk a little bit about the conversations that Pasha and I have making true crime podcasts. Like we have so many conversations to do with sometimes it's like cold calling people or ethical conversations about how we portray different stories.
So we're going to have some of those conversations like on mic so that, you know, listeners can be part of that. Great.
And we'll also tell true crime stories. Yeah, true crime story is also an opportunity for us to tell stories where we didn't get the right interview but like wow this is a fascinating story and now i get to tell hannah all about it and maybe we've like had it on our list for a while but no one had had time to do a deep dive until now yeah you guys are like i swear you feel like a parallel universe us but you guys have a lot more homework to do the new two.
And you actually do your homework. And you do your homework.
You guys are like really smart.

It's chronic at this point we're like okay we need to make this one really quick and easy and then eight hours later yeah yeah but i'm hoping like part of the off record is an attempt to get away from that to have like more conversations with each other without having to do tons of homework. We'll see.
Well, I do think the audience will be so fascinated because that is the piece that you never get from like a limited series or the series that are more journalistic and a little more formal and need to be. But I just love that idea that you guys kind of like, yep, we can do that and we can do this.
And then you can tell us what you thought of that.

And then we're going to do another one.

It's like a really fun kind of like backstage feel.

Yeah. It's fun for us to talk about it because we love the job so much.

And also just this like hybrid of journalism and storytelling.

And we're not investigators, but we are like making a podcast.

And I think that's, you know, maybe a lesser known skill set. Yeah.
And you guys did, you did it in such a cool way, as I said earlier, just the way you were like, I want to be in podcasts or like, I know you guys were listening to Serial when it came out and it's like, oh, this is a thing we can do. And I feel like we had the, had the exact same thought of let's just start it.
Let's do this. And I think that's really like, it's inspiring.
Yeah, totally. I think people are going to really love to hear about that.
A Valley Strong Credit Union. We know that local businesses are the backbone of the Central Valley, investing in our neighborhoods, boosting the economy, making the Valley stronger.
But when it comes to their finances, where can they turn? A big bank that just sees another number? That's not good enough. Valley businesses deserve Valley support for payroll, credit, cash flow, and everything in between.
Valley business is Valley Strong. Learn how our cash management services can support your business at valleystrong.com.
At Valley Strong Credit Union, we know that local businesses are the backbone of the Central Valley. Investing in our neighborhoods, boosting the economy, making the Valley stronger.
But when it comes to their finances, where can they turn? A big bank that just sees another number? That's not good enough. Valley businesses deserve Valley support for payroll, credit, cash flow, and everything in between.
Valley business is Valley strong. Learn how our cash management services

can support your business at valleystrong.com. 20 years of Jonas living the dream tour,

performing Nick solo and the administration, Joe and DNCE together with Marshmallow and special

guests in select cities. Get tickets now at LiveNation.com.
In your years of research and having to do those deep dives, and I know it's, you know, depending on the subject, but is there anything you've ever uncovered, learned a factoid, like something crazy? I just always picture you guys working at like late at night with one light and you're like, you know, on LexisNexis, like trying to figure stuff out. Like, do you, can you just like recap one moment where you had like that kind of journalistic Nancy Drew discovery or anything? There have definitely been things said on preliminary calls where we're just getting some background information where we're like, we have to level with them.
We're not going to touch that, you know, like that's not going to come up. And if it comes up in an interview, we're not going to it's not going to make the episode, whether that's maybe, you know, something that we don't agree with value system wise or accusations.
You know. People have very different experiences within a crime story and will really get fired up about it.
And so figuring out how to make sure that person feels heard, but also we want to do it right. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, there's the research, and then also there's learning things from conversations with people just because like, you know, there's the headline and then there's an article and then maybe there's a longer form article if you're lucky. And then, you know, I'm like, OK, where's the documentary or where's the book or where, you know, and then you hit like a stop where there's just nothing more.
Like a Reddit thread, maybe. Yeah, maybe there's a Reddit thread.
And, you know, I've I think like I've always just been like, what's what what else? Like, I just have more questions. And so then through, you know, finding someone who was like, oh, yeah, that was, you know, I, you know, yeah, I was there or whatever.
And I knew that person. And then, oh, great.
Well, you talk to me. And then, you know know having a two-hour long conversation with that person there's so much that will come out like I'm thinking about like season three of the opportunists we did with the cat cult and which I found that story by googling quote cult plus sign cat quote end quote and I'm like I wonder what's out there just for kids oh it's so fun and this one little article came up and i was like i don't know if i should pitch this to hannah is this too much she's like i love it it's like this is the exact kind of story i want to tell yeah yeah yeah and then when we had a conversation with mary who is married to this man who used to be married to the cult leader.
During the interview, she revealed to us that there was an attempted murder involved with the story where she had befriended this guy years later who was her, you know, assassin, essentially, that the cult leader had tried to convince him to kill her and her husband. And he didn't.
And then years later, they became friends. So that was a moment where this whole other aspect of the story opened up and we're like, wait a minute, what? Like there's also like, you know, a potential attempted murder here.
So there's, you know, that, that was a big moment, but there's a lot of moments that happen like that. Yeah.
That's amazing. How has it been like in your line of work, how is law enforcement communication going for you guys? It seems like that would be a tough one.

It is and it's not. It's like if there's a case where, you know, it's case closed, someone's been convicted, sentenced, usually there's law enforcement who will happily talk about it because it's maybe something they consider a career accomplishment.

And maybe it is. Usually there's law enforcement who will happily talk about it because it's maybe something they consider a career accomplishment.

And maybe it is. But if the case is still open, it can be a lot more difficult.

And, you know, when we do those interviews, they can still be very useful for information. But you're not going to get someone to like reflect or give you anything beyond, you know, very like by the book answer.
And that can be challenging. But I would say overall, pretty good.
I do want to know more about the interviews you do with people involved in the case. The first off record episode is so incredible about these missing teens.
And you got friends to talk, you got family to talk. I mean, that's like, and you went, you went there in person too.
It's like, that just has to change everything. It did.
It changed everything. You know, I went to the DA's office and, you know, sat down with an investigator who had previously been a detective on the case when he was earlier in his career.
It was incredible. I got to, I fell in love with it because I met so many people I would have never met.
And, you know, I got immersed in this story and really got to understand how current it all was for them still. You know, their friends had gone missing, you know, 20 years earlier.
And they're talking about these memories that are so vivid for them and also unpacking it with me for really the first time for a lot of them because it was a small town and the same theories had circulated and I just thought like this is such a privilege that these people are taking this complete stranger into their home. I had a little

Olympus recording thing that I got for like 20 bucks. And I'm, you know, they're just talking to me and they didn't care that I had no previous podcasting experience.
They only cared that someone wanted to hear their story. And that really hit home and was like, I'm so motivated to do this now.
And then, you know, I got my job on The Opportunist, got much busier, wasn't really sure how to end the story. I was so new to it.
And you recorded like multiple episodes and put them together. Yeah.
I don't remember how many, but I'm one of the few people that have the privilege of listening to it. It was really good.
Amazing. But the case was still unsolved and you weren't sure how to end it.
I wasn't sure how to end it. And I also felt conflicted about some of the tape because, you know, there were two missing teens, Jeremy Bechdel and Aaron Foster.
And Jeremy's family was very open with me. Aaron's family was much less.
And I started feeling conflicted about putting so much out there without their support.

And that was something I was thinking a lot about. I didn't have the confidence in my storytelling ability that I have after having done it now.
But it was just so interesting to like, I'm going to get case file access to a case file. I'm going to get to go ask these people questions.
And, you know, I didn't break news with this story, but I was able to sort of piece together enough to be like, I know that they left that party. And I know that after that party, they went to Aaron's house.
And I had only ever heard or read that they had left that party and never been seen again. And that was enough for me to be like, sometimes it just takes like, not a professional, but like fresh eyes and energy into doing something.
And I didn't solve that case. They did.
And they, with the help of this YouTube diver exploring the nug. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler.
But it was so amazing because I had built so many relationships in that town that when as they're literally pulling the car up from the river, people are calling me. And I was like, oh, my gosh.
And so then I felt this way of like, well, I now have all of these relationships with Jeremy's family members. I need to call them.
And like, did you inform them? One of them, I informed him because he had been calling me and we had been playing phone tag. And then it felt strange.
And I just said, I don't have any details. I've just heard that Aaron's car was found in the river and you need to call Sheriff Page.
And incredible. Yeah, it was, you know, I didn't want to make those phone calls, certainly.
But when you're talking to people every day for a long time, they're wanting to talk about it with you. And it was just a great experience.
And also, I think with missing persons cases, for me, there's that hope. And even though, you know, after 20 years, I think hope dwindles.
But I really liked that aspect of it. And that was just, it was exciting.
It's so cool. As a cold case junkie, I really was just, that story was incredible.
Well, and also it's, that's such a good point that like when something happens to people, a trauma, like all of a sudden just your child is gone. You're, you know, they're just, there's no explanation and people help you for a little while and then just nothing.
The idea that, that you are left to process that or just, or not because you don't get any answers. It's not the same as like, there's a death in the family.
It's just, it's a total void. And like, you know, you describing it that way, it's like, it must be incredibly powerful to have someone someone come and say I care about what this is and I want to help in some way I do that is what I love about the true crime community is like there are so many sincere sincerely caring like professionals and non-professionals that are like what can I do what could I look up online like what could I research yeah Yeah.
And it also was very eye opening in the way of like, it's easy to say, oh, you know, why didn't the why didn't local law enforcement do more? Obviously, they didn't run away to Florida. They they left a paycheck behind, like all of these like, quote, unquote, like obvious things that had happened or not happened and blame.
But when you talk to all of these different people, it's like, you know, well, wait a minute, that office had one computer at the time. So that means these notes are handwritten and then typed out.
And how many notes are you taking if you're writing something by hand? And what is this game of telephone really look like, even if you're trying your best? What was the training at the time? It wasn't. So then it was like, OK, I have to take a step back because it's not one person's fault.
It wasn't like there were a lot of things that should have gone differently and didn't. But it made me take a step back and think about how little you really get from reading an article.
And I just wanted to know more. Do you have a story like that of something that's happened where you're just getting involved, kind of turned things a little bit? That's like that maybe journalistic satisfaction that you get to have sometimes? I don't know if I have a story quite like that where it gets solved, a missing person's case.
I mean, that's pretty incredible. Yeah.
But certainly, like, you know, we've talked to people that have reached out to Hannah from just knowing her from the opportunist and said, well, what about my story? Can you look into this? And, you know, I think that is a cool place to be like someone thinks that I care enough to look into this and like actually do some research. And I think that that's also a really like great thing about being able to connect with listeners.
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, like, you know, I've never, yeah, I've never solved a case or anything like that.
That's season two. Yeah, that's coming.
But, you know, just being able to bring it to like people's attention to continue to keep attention on these things, as we were just talking about, I think means a lot. And you never know what that can do.
It's like, you know, Pesha didn't solve this case, but the fact that there was so much attention on it, I don't know, it keeps it fresh in people's minds and you just never know like what that could lead to. So that's what I usually tell people when they're like, I have this, you know, case and well, I'm not able to solve it.
I'm not an investigator, but we can certainly tell that story. And then hopefully that will help you connect to other people or resources to, you know, hopefully make some leeway there.
Yeah. This is John Cameron Mitchell and my new fiction podcast series, Cancellation Island stars Holly Hunter as Karen, a wellness influencer who launches a rehab for the recently canceled.
But everything starts to fall apart when people start disappearing. Karen, where have you brought us?

Listen to Cancellation Island on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Langston Kermit. Sometimes I'm on TV.

I'm David Borey, and I'm probably on TV right now.

David and I are going to take a deep dive every week into the most exciting, groundbreaking

and sometimes problematic

black conspiracy theories.

We've had amazing past

notable guests like Brandon Kyle Goodman,

Sam J., Quinta Brunson,

and so many more. New

episodes are out every Tuesday.

Many episodes out on Thursdays

where we answer you, the listeners

conspiracy theories.

Listen to My Mama Told Me

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

Thank you. many episodes out on Thursdays where we answer you, the listeners, conspiracy theories.
Listen to My Mama Told Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Safe on family favorites at Safeway.
This week at Safeway, get four to six ounce Yoplait yogurt or 5.6 ounce protein yogurt for the member price of just 39 cents each when you buy 10. Plus get two pound containers of strawberries for the member price of $4.97 each.
Also this week at Safeway, get six to eight ounce Lucerne shredded, sliced, or chunk cheese for $1.97 each with digital coupon limit for items. Visit safeway.com or head in store for more deals.
You guys have that thing that I think that people who are into true crime, like we are murderinos, which is this like curiosity about the way humans work and the way these decisions people make affects like everyone's life around them. And you can hear that in the podcast, this curiosity that you guys have that's so pure.
And I totally identify with it. Totally.
I mean, I think that so many people who love true crime feel that way, right? And it makes me think of actually this episode of a podcast that you sent me years ago. It's a criminal episode.
We know you all love criminal as well. Yeah, so good.
And she was interviewing Errol Morris. You know, he was talking about crime stories and always just stuck with me.
He talked about like the heart of crime stories is just humanity, you know, it's, and I just agree with that so wholeheartedly, you know, in all of these stories, of course, there is some incident, some dramatic incident. Right.
But like within that, there are stories of people surviving or people seeking justice and the complications of what that looks like. What does that even mean? and how people hurt each other and how people try to heal and what that does to an individual person and to a community.
I mean, it is just humanity. It's how we all live together.
And that is just endlessly compelling. Yeah.
It makes me think of the episode and the opportunist. And look, the opportunist was great.
Congratulations. Your new podcast is amazing.
Thank you. But I, you know, I just have the memory of you talking about the people who invested in the guys who were claiming that they were going to go find this sunken treasure boat.
Yeah. And so it's that kind of story where it's like, this is not a murder.
This is not, you know, one of those kind of stories. It's a scam story that as it went, it just became more and more heartbreaking as I listened to it of like these people who it's like, it's easy to go like, oh, well, you made a mistake or that was a dumb investment.
And it's like these guys went through and just methodically drained the bank accounts of retirees and like just destroyed these families. that was just kind of like well too bad for you and i'm sure that there are people who like when if they go through an experience like that being able to hear somebody else be able to say it and have you know the validity like be able to give it the gravitas it deserves of like this is horrible it should not be happening have systems set up.
Or how do you, what are the next steps you take when someone doesn't just, you know, rip you off, but like you lose all your money. And you never think it's going to be you.
Like ever, you know, we've probably never interviewed someone and been like, oh, I could see how that happened to them. It's like, no, that could be all of us.
Like, yeah, no no one is like well i kind of expected that to happen to me right yeah you never think it's going to be you and i think there's also this like self-exploration that happens where you're like when you when that feeling creeps in like something's not right here this other part of you is in survival mode being like everything's fine fine. I'm sure it's okay.
It's all going to come together. And like those two voices are battling it out in your head until there's this point of no return.
And, you know, that's not someone being naive all the time. That's just like life.
You have to trust people sometimes. And, you know, maybe a gold bar at the bottom of the ocean sounds far fetched, but it's not like this random person knocked on someone's door and said, I know where to find, you know, a sunken treasure boat.
It's like, this is a trusted person in the community supported by another trusted person in the community. And that goes a long way for people.
Which makes it all the more evil. Yeah.
That was a tough one. That was tough.
Yeah. It's very satisfying that we get to host a podcast where there's the potential where obviously there's the relation of there's a crime and then somebody gets to tell their story, be a survivor, be, you know, get their voice out there.
But then that someone listening at home who might not have any of that support or any of that kind of platform gets to relate or have somewhere to go or a next steps kind of plan. Yeah.
that someone feels heard becomes really important in the work that we're doing and is I think something we don't want to lose in our storytelling yeah I think that's impossible for you guys to lose I think that's just second nature for you so cool it's definitely like the most fun I've ever had it's exactly what I want to be doing it's so exciting it's so I feel like people are going to really, really love this podcast. I just, we've, everyone that works here has listened to it.
It's just like, it's a hit. It's a hit.
It's just so great. Yeah.
Great job, you guys. We're so excited to be here.
And, you know, you all have supported us so much too, you know, shouting out the show back, you know, when we were doing it and always being like, just cheering us on and

that we always saw that always meant a lot to us. And so, you know, it just feels like a really great place for us to be.
It just feels right. And so we're really, we're happy to be here.
Does it feel exactly right? It feels exactly right. Okay, then you should just sign your life away right here.
Yeah, exactly. Yay.
Yay. Honestly, and I honestly and i mean like you know this is business but also we adore you guys we love the work you do we're so proud of the show that you've made and the fact that we get to put it on our network so thank you so much thanks for being here thank you yeah thank you so much yeah that's it's the best.
So The Knife launches on March 27th and new episodes are up every Thursday.

Please listen.

And don't forget to go and follow, rate, review, subscribe, support, show up.

And on Instagram and Blue Sky, you can find them at The Knife Podcast.

Thanks, you guys.

Yeah, thank you guys so much.

Thank you so much for having us.

We're so excited.

Yay.

Okay.

Goodbye. Elvis, do you guys so much.
Thank you so much for having us. We're so excited.
Yay, okay. Goodbye.

Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Ah! producers Hannah Kyle Creighton. Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
This episode was mixed by

Liana Squalache. Our researchers are Maren McClashen and Allie Elkin.
Email your hometowns

to MyFavoriteMurder at gmail.com. Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at MyFavoriteMurder.

Goodbye!