475 - My Favorite Firework

Speaker 1 This is exactly right.

Speaker 1 This podcast is sponsored by PayPal.

Speaker 2 Okay, let's talk holiday shopping.

Speaker 1 From now through December 8th, you can get 20% cash back when you pay in four with PayPal. No fees, no interest.

Speaker 2 This limited time offer is perfect for the Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals you've been eyeing. Save the offer in the app now.

Speaker 1 So, whether you're buying tickets to an improv show or a whodunit board game, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday.

Speaker 2 Expires December 8th. See PayPal.com/slash promo terms subject to approval.

Speaker 1 Learn more at paypal.com/slash payin4, PayPal Inc. NMLS 910-457.

Speaker 2 Goodbye. Goodbye.

Speaker 1 No one brings out your inner monster like a bad neighbor.

Speaker 2 Claire Danes and Matthew Reese find that out for themselves in The Beast in Me, a new eight-episode drama from the team that brought you homeland. Danes plays Aggie Wiggs, a grieving writer.

Speaker 2 Reese plays Niall Jarvis, her new neighbor and possible murderer.

Speaker 1 But who's the monster and who's the bad neighbor? That's another story.

Speaker 2 It's a game of cat and mouse that sets them on a collision course with fatal consequences.

Speaker 1 The Beast and Me, now playing only on Netflix.

Speaker 2 You will not want to miss this. Goodbye.
Goodbye. Your pet is your best friend, your therapist, and your unpaid intern.

Speaker 1 So don't just feed them, fuel them with Hill's Pet Nutrition.

Speaker 2 Hills is backed by science to support whole body health in dogs and cats.

Speaker 1 As a leader in science-led nutrition, Hills supports lean muscles, which are essential for everything your pet does, whether that's the zoomies, squirrel patrol, or occasionally knocking something over.

Speaker 1 Hills science-led nutrition helps you give more love than humanly possible. Because you're only human, there's Hills.

Speaker 2 Science does more. Find the right food at hillspet.com/slash iHeart.
Goodbye.

Speaker 2 Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstar.
That's Karen Kilgareth.

Speaker 1 And we're doing it again. We're podcasting again.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Can you believe it? I see you right here. You were in their dream last night.

Speaker 2 Me? Yeah. Oh.
You had an extra dog. Is there an extra dog in your life?

Speaker 1 No. Maybe you're seeing the future.
I think I am. What color size?

Speaker 2 Sweet little

Speaker 2 medium-sized black dog. I can't remember the name, but you were like watching it for now, like fostering.

Speaker 2 So I think you should do it.

Speaker 1 Here's the thing. I don't like fostering.

Speaker 2 Of course.

Speaker 1 Because how do you have a dog in your house that you're treating like your own dog? And then you're just like, okay, bye.

Speaker 2 Good luck. I know, but it's for the, it's for the greater good.

Speaker 1 Not my greater good. And I'm, my greater good is the only one I care about.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's been a real burden. I didn't get to tell you the story of when we were heading home from Chicago and for the first,

Speaker 1 well, for the almost the whole flight. So it was a four-hour flight.
So for three and a half hours, I was convinced I was sitting next to Steve-O

Speaker 1 and it was so exciting.

Speaker 2 But you couldn't actually look, so you just convinced yourself?

Speaker 1 Well, so when I walked on, it was a dude in the aisle seat with his hat pulled all the way down, real flat-billed skater boy hat.

Speaker 1 And he was, it was like that. So I was like, okay, famous person,

Speaker 1 whatever. So I just slide past him and sit down.
And then, of course, we have to wait and wait because there's all these crazy delays for weather. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so by the time we've taken off and I'm waiting for that seat belt sign to go off, I have to peace open it. Oh my God.

Speaker 1 And so I was just like, he clearly, he was like turned away and it was like all crunched in. So I was like,

Speaker 1 I absolutely have to give this signal. I am not trying to talk to you or make small talk.
Literally, I'm not going to wait for that sign to go off.

Speaker 1 I'm going to to get up and go out of my way i've got to piss oh i've been there i'm just like and i planned accordingly i didn't choose to wait yes like i was forced to wait

Speaker 1 thank god and i'm sorry to say but it just looked like a crazy old lady came wandering up the aisle And she had kind of like long gray hair. And I was like, oh my God, she's going to do it first.
Yes.

Speaker 1 And she did. Good for her.

Speaker 2 She did it first. She broke the seal for it.

Speaker 1 She broke the seal for all the people who had to pee. So then she walks back.

Speaker 1 And the second she passed, i think our seats our aisle was the last one yeah the second she passed i just turned gave full energy of like moving yeah and then he kind of looked but i wasn't trying to look in his face because i wanted to make sure he knew i am not trying to talk to you yeah and i just jumped up and slid past him and went to the bathroom and as i went in i just looked at this at the flight attendant and i was like it's an emergency and went in and as i walk in and locked the door they were like attention all passengers stay in your seat just for you yes totally just for you they announced shame to me.

Speaker 1 So then at the very end of the flight, he stood up, opened up the overhead, looked at me and said, Do you have anything up here? You want me to get down?

Speaker 1 And I was like, no, because you're not Steve-O. So you can truly go to hell for us.

Speaker 2 That whole time.

Speaker 1 It was so exciting.

Speaker 2 It's weird. I think we're all going to agree that it's weird that you got so excited about Steve-O.
Like, I wouldn't have pictured that as like a Karen gets excited about celeb. Really? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, maybe you

Speaker 1 weren't listening all the times I told you, but but I'm huge.

Speaker 2 What? No, just kidding.

Speaker 1 But I used to watch Wild Boys. Wild Boys came on on my TV when I lived in a studio apartment.
It was broke and literally got like three channels. Yeah.
Somehow I was able to watch that show.

Speaker 2 I don't even know what it is.

Speaker 1 It was Steve-O and Chris Pontius, I believe is how you pronounce his last name. And they would go all around the world and like dress as bananas and go sit near silverback gorillas.
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 Like pranks around the world.

Speaker 2 Pranks to themselves, too, almost.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Like lots of bungee jumping off of bridges that, like, they're both having nervous breakdowns.
I love it. That kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 But like, every show. Yes.
That's amazing. And I didn't know that.
Yeah. Congratulations.

Speaker 1 It is kind of funny when you sit. I do that all the time on planes thinking I recognize people.
We're flying out of LAX.

Speaker 2 Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 Like look around a little bit, but also when people get hidey like that, like, why would you be doing this? Does he have a zit?

Speaker 2 He probably had a big zit. That's why I'd hide.

Speaker 1 He looked like a regular guy guy when he stood up

Speaker 1 skater come on i mean let's get skater they're like karen that was george clooney like oh i thought it was steve i don't give a shit i you know i love the idea of you like get out of my way george clooney steve-o's right there i gotta talk to him get a photo here's the thing i feel like i know steve-o better than i know george of course so it is that thing of like you feel like it's the boy from high school that got famous yeah not just a celebrity not the famous guy right that makes sense yeah also i tricked my dad into watching the most recent jackass Thank you.

Speaker 1 Is it Jackass 4? Fuck if I know. The most recent.
And I thought he would make me turn it off because of all the filth. Yeah.
And we watched it for so long before

Speaker 1 they literally showed men's genitals.

Speaker 2 And he went, all right, turn this off. That's, that's his heart out.
It's like four genital shots.

Speaker 1 He's like, I can't. Yeah.
This I would have normally been so mad about.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But I think they won him over too. Wow.

Speaker 2 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Genital shots with your dad. No.
I couldn't believe believe it.

Speaker 1 I was just like, all of a sudden, it smashed cut to like, here's how we're going to up this prank. And then I was just like, what?

Speaker 2 That's, I've turned movies off with my dad because of that. And we both go, oh, no.
And like, both of us turn away from the TV. Like, okay.
Yeah. No, thanks.
No thanks, dad. No, thanks.

Speaker 2 That was your flight home.

Speaker 2 It was uneventful. And I was so happy to be home.
That Friday afternoon home thing where you're just like, I just want to sleep for the entire weekend. Yeah.
And I did. Yeah.
And it was great.

Speaker 1 And you get to your be justified. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Should we do highlights for our network? Let's do it.
Okay, you guys, we have a podcast network. It's called Exactly Right Media.
Please follow it everywhere if you want and can and should.

Speaker 1 If you would, please. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And here are some highlights.

Speaker 1 This week on our weird news show, Bananas, comedian Abby Gavinden joins Kurt and Scotty and they cover important news of the world, like a reckless driver who was fined for not stopping at a crosswalk for his own children.

Speaker 1 And of course, Walgreens' shocking revelation that locking up every item in their stores is bad for business. Who knew?

Speaker 2 Shocking. Shocking.

Speaker 2 And then on That's Messed Up, Kara and Lisa cover the SVU episode Exile, season 20, episode 6, that covers the strange disappearance of Hannah Up and chat with actress Amy Spring Fortier, who plays two different characters on the same episode.

Speaker 2 Wow, she's got range.

Speaker 1 Yes. And then over on our brand new true crime podcast, The Knife, they've got a new episode out today.
Hannah and Pesha are sharing Tony Nova's story.

Speaker 1 Tony was newly married and just a month into her pregnancy when her husband became physically abusive.

Speaker 1 Today she's bravely telling her story in hopes of helping others find safety in similar situations.

Speaker 2 Amazing. The knife is doing the work.
They're doing it. And Barry Bones has a big week.

Speaker 2 First, the new episode drops on Wednesday as Kate and Paul head to Delaware in 1892 to investigate the brutal murder of a 17-year-old woman. Then on Friday, 4 p.m.

Speaker 2 Pacific, join Kate and Paul for the premiere of their very first video episode. It's at youtube.com/slash exactly right media.
They'll be in the comments live answering listener questions.

Speaker 2 You get to see their beautiful faces talking about awesome stuff. Please go and check that out.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Kate and Paul on video.

Speaker 2 Can't miss. What more do you want?

Speaker 1 And finally, we have a personal question for you, listener. Have you checked out our merch lately? There's something for everyone, but especially there's stuff now for our day one listeners.

Speaker 1 Look, very small, but here it is. The day one listener pin.
It's a little blue ribbon pin

Speaker 2 yes you've been telling everyone you're you've been here since the beginning so now you can brag about it in pin form yeah and also we're not gonna check your work if you are a day 37 listener or day 200 listener you can still wear this beautiful pin i feel like that's a we are ribbon yeah we've had to listen to this shit the whole time

Speaker 2 i'll wear it

Speaker 2 The holidays go by fast. Halls get decked.
Gifts get open. But what stays are the memories.

Speaker 1 Turn those moments into something that lasts with the gift of Aura Frames.

Speaker 2 Aura Frames turns your photos into a meaningful gift, perfect for family or friends.

Speaker 1 With the Aura app, it's easy to add as many photos or short videos as you want. Just connect a Wi-Fi and they'll appear instantly.

Speaker 2 And every Aura Frame comes in a beautiful premium box with no price tag, so it's ready to go straight under the tree.

Speaker 1 You can't wrap togetherness, but you can frame it with Aura Frames.

Speaker 2 I love my Aura Frame. I've given so many away, but the one I have every year comes out at a big family holiday party.

Speaker 2 It's got pictures from like the 70s through now of holiday parties and the past two years of the holiday parties I've had at my house. It's just become a tradition.

Speaker 2 We put it out in the kitchen, everyone oozing ahs over it and like takes pictures to add for next year. It's the fucking perfect gift.

Speaker 1 They really are the best. And for a limited time, visit auraframes.com and get $45 off Aura's best-selling Carver matte frames, named number one by Wirecutter by using promo code MFM at checkout.

Speaker 2 That's A-U-R-Aframes.com, promo code MFM.

Speaker 1 This exclusive exclusive Black Friday Cyber Monday deal is their best of the year, so order now before it ends.

Speaker 2 Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.
Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Every car has that one cup holder full of coins and then maybe some slightly melted hard candy.

Speaker 2 With Acorns, you can take that spare change and put it to use by investing in your future.

Speaker 1 Acorns is the financial wellness app that cares about where your money is going. And with the Acorns Potential screen, you can see what your money is capable of.

Speaker 2 The Acorns Potential screen shows you the power of compounding and how your money could grow over time. Plus, you can adjust how much you're investing to make sure you're building towards your goals.

Speaker 2 Sign up now and Acorns will boost your new account with a $5 bonus investment.

Speaker 1 Join the over 14 million all-time customers who have already saved and invested over $27 billion with Acorns.

Speaker 2 Head to acorns.com slash MFM or download the Acorns app to get started.

Speaker 1 Paid non-client endorsement. Compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns.
Tier 2 compensation provided.

Speaker 2 Potential subject to various factors such as customers' accounts, age, and investment settings. Does not include Acorns fees.

Speaker 2 Results do not predict or represent the performance of any Acorns portfolio. Investment results will vary.

Speaker 1 Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC, an SEC registered investment advisor.
View important disclosures at acorns.com/slash MFM.

Speaker 2 Goodbye. We upgrade everything.

Speaker 1 Our coffee, our skincare, our snacks. But the dog, same brown kibble since the dawn of man.

Speaker 2 All cookie. Luckily, there's just fresh from just food for dogs.
It's real human-grade ingredients, balanced and healthy, and this is the kicker. It's shelf-stable.

Speaker 1 Your dog deserves better than food that's been sitting in a bag for weeks.

Speaker 2 Kibble may be easy, but it's far from fresh, and your dog deserves meals made with real whole ingredients.

Speaker 1 Just like you wouldn't want to eat the same dry processed food every day, your dog shouldn't have to either.

Speaker 2 It's not the 80s anymore, you guys. It's time to step up your game with your pet food because your pets are, obviously, they're family, but if you're like us, they're your children too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm not gonna just feed them whatever.

Speaker 1 I love just food for dogs because I'm very concerned about keeping my dogs alive as long as I possibly can. And I have proof Frank is 17 years old.

Speaker 2 Love it. Fresh food anywhere, anytime.

Speaker 1 Go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50% off your first order. No code needed.
Just do it. Goodbye.
Bye.

Speaker 2 All right. You're first.

Speaker 1 Let's do the thing that is the thing we're supposed to do.

Speaker 2 Let's do it. Let's do the thing they've been fast forwarding to for the past two minutes.
All right.

Speaker 1 This is a story that got suggested to me and I said, I'm positive I've covered that before.

Speaker 1 And then Marin looked it all up and was like, you've talked about it before. You have not covered it.

Speaker 1 And the reason I thought I covered it is because I listened to and then recommended and talked about a lot a podcast by the CBC called The Village.

Speaker 1 It's a limited series podcast that is such an incredible deep dive. Journalist Justin Ling did it and it is such a good podcast.
It's heavily cited in this. So that's why it was so familiar to me.

Speaker 1 But now I'm going to tell it to you myself. Okay.
So it starts in January of 2018 in Toronto, Canada, in and around the city's LGBTQ plus district. You know?

Speaker 1 That area is known as the Church and Wellesley neighborhood, also known as Toronto's Gay Village.

Speaker 1 Over the past 10 years, eight men with connections to the queer community have simply vanished from the city. And for all those years, their loved ones have been waiting for answers.

Speaker 1 Now on the morning of January 18th, 2018, just before 10.30 a.m., a team of officers storms a Toronto apartment and arrests the homeowner.

Speaker 1 He's been the target of their investigation in these disappearances for weeks, and he's been under 24-hour surveillance. Soon, the investigators' suspicions about this man will be confirmed.

Speaker 1 He is, in fact, a serial killer who has been hiding in plain sight all this time. Today, I'm going to tell you the story of Toronto's Gay Village murders.

Speaker 2 Wow. Yeah.
We've never covered this. Right.
I think a lot of it was playing out over the past few years and we've been like probably waiting to see the results of it too before we covered it. Right.

Speaker 1 The trial I think is 2019 and goes into 2020. It's it's recent in terms of our COVID brains of like, yes, we wouldn't have talked about it then.

Speaker 1 And then I think listening to this podcast, The Village, it's just like, oh, I know this story. Like then it becomes like, well, I know the story the way I would if I had told it.
Right. Right.

Speaker 1 And that's when the lies begin. The rest of our sources are in our show notes if you want to go read those.

Speaker 1 So I'm going to start in the 1970s before the gay village exists. Back then, Toronto's queer scene was centered around what they called gay strip, which is a cluster of dive bars on the same street.

Speaker 1 This is just after Canada decriminalizes sex between consenting adults of the same sex. That happened in 1969.
Now the gay strip is the hub for the city's queer community.

Speaker 1 Unsurprisingly, local bigots come out in full force against the gay strip and its patrons. They hurl slurs, eggs, and rocks at them, and sometimes it escalates into physical beatings.

Speaker 1 But the police do not intervene. In fact, Toronto police refuse to meet with members of the queer community to discuss safety.
As York University historian Dr.

Speaker 1 Tom Hooper tells CBC's The Fifth Estate, quote, when a gay person is a victim of a crime, they expect the police to pay attention. That was not happening in the 1970s.

Speaker 1 But on the flip side, when it came to lesser crimes, like for example, jaywalking, the police were hypersensitive to the gay community.

Speaker 1 So the police paid close attention to enforcing the law, but not to protecting the community from threats, end quote.

Speaker 1 So then between 1975 and 1978, a span of just three years, the bodies of 14 men are found strangled, stabbed to death, or both, and only about half of those cases are solved.

Speaker 2 Jesus.

Speaker 2 How long is that?

Speaker 1 Between when? Three years, so 75 to 78. Okay.
It's clearly a pressing matter of public safety, but the police seem to have very little interest in solving those remaining homicide cases.

Speaker 1 And on top of that lack of urgency, there's also an issue with finding witnesses who can help push the investigations forward.

Speaker 1 Because, of course, it's a time when anti-gay discrimination is rampant, so many people don't feel like they can safely speak up because that would mean outing themselves.

Speaker 1 Not to mention coming forward would require working with a police force that has been, at best, indifferent and at worst, overtly hostile towards the gay community.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you'd like get on their radar then. Right.
And that's a dangerous place to be.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's like just a problem of any marginalized group of people. Right.

Speaker 1 Where it's like all the people that the police work fine for, which is basically rich white people, go, well, then go tell the police. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Be

Speaker 1 speak up.

Speaker 2 Right. Why didn't you? Yeah.
Yes.

Speaker 1 So then in 1981, tensions between Toronto's queer community and the police hit an all-time high during what are now the infamous bathhouse raids, when more than 150 police officers sweep four of the city's bathhouses, sometimes using crowbars to violently open private rooms and lockers and arrest employees and nearly 300 patrons, who they then charge with gross indecency or minor drug offenses.

Speaker 1 So the backlash to the bathhouse raids is swift. Over 3,000 people take to the streets protesting police brutality and discrimination.

Speaker 1 And those protests are sometimes talked about like the Canadian counterpart to Stonewall in America, in New York City.

Speaker 1 The fallout in Toronto is that many people in their queer community remain deeply skeptical of law enforcement. So now we're going to jump ahead 30 years.
It's 2010.

Speaker 1 And nobody has heard from 40-year-old Skanda Navaratnam for days. Skanda has first moved to Canada in the 90s as a refugee from Sri Lanka.

Speaker 1 His loved ones describe him as a charismatic, fun, and excellent friend who, wherever he goes, is always making more friends.

Speaker 1 People are drawn to his infectious personality, but him not being heard from for days is extremely out of character, so people are worried.

Speaker 1 Lately, Skanda has been very excited about his new husky puppy, who he brings everywhere.

Speaker 1 So when his friends find the puppy at home in Skanda's apartment with no food or water, they know something is terribly wrong.

Speaker 1 So that's when Skanda is reported missing. That same year, a man in his early 40s named Basir Fazi is also reported missing.
He's a native of Afghanistan.

Speaker 1 He's a beloved father who works hard for his family. And Basir comes from a culturally conservative background.
He was not out to his family.

Speaker 1 Shortly before vanishing, he called his wife at the end of his workday, told her he had plans with coworkers, but then he actually drove to a bar in the village called the Black Eagle.

Speaker 1 So when Basir's car is found abandoned on a residential street about 10 minutes away from the village a few days later, the police and his family are baffled.

Speaker 1 All of this is 45 minutes away from Basir's home, so they don't know why it would be there.

Speaker 1 Two years later in 2012, the same story plays out again when 58-year-old Majid Khayyan, who goes by the name Hamid, disappears.

Speaker 1 Hamid is also from Afghanistan and he hasn't come out to his family either. He's living in an apartment near Church in Wellesley and he has many dear friends in the area.

Speaker 1 They will all later comment on his deep love for Bollywood films and their music,

Speaker 1 which is just like, I don't know why that got me when I was reading this research of like the most lively, enlivening, like positive fun at the end of a Bollywood movie when they do the dance number and everyone does it.

Speaker 1 It's like that idea that this was his favorite thing. It's like you can kind of imagine that type of personality.
Totally.

Speaker 1 So it doesn't take long for members of Toronto's queer community to connect the dots here.

Speaker 1 These three missing person cases all involve men who fall in the same general age range, have emigrated to Canada from socially conservative Asian nations, and have spent time in the gay village.

Speaker 1 An advocate and member of Toronto's queer community, Mita Hans, tells journalist Justin Ling, quote, Everybody who saw the missing posters brought up the words, serial killer. This is not chance.

Speaker 1 This is not a lover's quarrel gone awry. This is a pattern.
This is a definitive pattern.

Speaker 1 And Mita Hans is a big part of the village podcast. She's in it the whole time.
She's amazing. So,

Speaker 1 of course, the initial police response to these three disappearances is, in a word, baffling. Not all bad.

Speaker 1 For example, a close friend of Hamid's named Kyle Andrews goes to the police and he's relieved to discover the detective that is handling the case seems both non-judgmental and interested in the information he's giving.

Speaker 1 So Kyle shares as much as he possibly can. He mentions that Hamid has been dating a guy named Bruce, but he doesn't know the man all that well.

Speaker 1 Kyle is surprised when the detective follows up about Bruce. Then Kyle gets the sense that the police are, for whatever reason, interested in knowing more about him specifically.

Speaker 1 But here's where the baffling part comes in. Kyle eventually learns that Bruce, whose full name is Bruce MacArthur, actually has connections to both Skanda and Basir,

Speaker 1 which means he knows all three of the missing men.

Speaker 1 The police learn this when they search all of the missing men's dating profiles and find Bruce's dating profile in connection with theirs.

Speaker 1 And Bruce's profile is pretty unremarkable. He's a landscaper in his early 60s.
He looks so much like Santa Claus that he actually works as Santa Claus at a local mall during the holiday season.

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, he writes on his own profile, quote, I can be a bit shy until I get to know you, but am a romantic at heart.

Speaker 1 Police interview this Bruce MacArthur as part of the investigation, but for whatever reason, they treat him more like a witness than a suspect.

Speaker 1 In general, police are rejecting the idea that a serial killer could be behind these disappearances.

Speaker 1 In fact, they release a statement saying that they've, quote, not found any evidence to say that any of the missing men mentioned above knew each other.

Speaker 1 The only information between all three that is similar is that they all like to attend similar bars, especially the Black Eagle. So the police investigation loses momentum.
The cases stall.

Speaker 1 Detectives seem to accept the explanation that Hamid, Basir, and Skanda all decided to leave Toronto on their own.

Speaker 1 Of course, that explanation doesn't make sense to the people who know these men, including their friends in the queer community who've experienced the police's disinterest, discrimination, and hostility.

Speaker 1 Mita Hans says, quote, initially, I think the tones were very civil, asking for help, asking for acknowledgement, asking for a spotlight to be shown on this, because obviously there's something going on.

Speaker 1 But when that didn't happen, I think the tone became more urgent, more animated, and finally the tone became very angry. Why are you not listening?

Speaker 1 If we see this is happening, if everybody we know sees this is happening, how can you not see this? End quote. So now it's 2015.

Speaker 1 Skanda and Basir have been missing for five years and Hamid has been missing for three. And then in August of 2015, 50-year-old Sarouche Mahmoudi disappears.

Speaker 1 He's come to Canada from Iran and he's reported missing by his wife, who's worried sick. The two have a loving relationship, and she speaks publicly about his beautiful smile and his good heart.

Speaker 1 Like Basir, Hamid, and Skanda, Sarush comes from a socially conservative culture. His family members, including his wife, don't know that he spends time in the church in Wellesley neighborhood.

Speaker 1 And because of that, investigators don't initially connect him with these other missing men. And then, 37-year-old Karishna Kumar Kanagaratnam disappears around the same time.

Speaker 1 He is also not connected to the other missing person cases because he has no clear ties to Toronto's gay gay village and police have investigated. He still has none to this day.

Speaker 1 Karishna has been in Canada since 2010, arriving as a refugee from Sri Lanka after a dangerous 100-day journey on a boat from his war-torn native country.

Speaker 1 But because his refugee claim is denied when he gets to Canada, When he falls out of contact, his family thinks he's laying low to avoid being deported.

Speaker 1 And he ends up having to live on the street like he's really in a bad position when his refugee claim is denied.

Speaker 1 Then in 2016, a 47-year-old man named Dean Lissowick disappears. He's never reported missing to the police.
Dean is white. He was born in Canada.

Speaker 1 He's a familiar face in the church and Wellesley neighborhood. Justin Ling reports that, quote, everyone remembers him as an incredibly nice guy who had fallen on hard times.

Speaker 1 Dean is often seen panhandling in the area, and sometimes he engages in sex work. He's last been seen in a nearby homeless shelter.
Then in 2017, 44-year-old Saleem Essen goes missing.

Speaker 1 Selim has moved to Canada from Turkey in 2013. Things haven't always been easy for him.

Speaker 1 He's previously struggled with addiction, but his friends say that life for him lately had been good and that he'd been turning things around.

Speaker 1 So when friends suddenly stop hearing from Saleem, he is reported missing to police. And he's last seen at his own home near the gay village.

Speaker 1 His brothers will later release a statement about him saying, quote, he was very friendly, kind-hearted, open, independent-minded, and curious, passionate about learning new things, gardening, exploring new places, and meeting new people.

Speaker 1 His tender and kind humanity came before everything else.

Speaker 1 So then in July of the same year, after the end of all the Pride celebrations, a 49-year-old man named Andrew Kinsman vanishes.

Speaker 1 Andrew, who's like Dean, white and born in Canada, is very active in Toronto's queer community. He's described by loved ones as, quote, an extraordinary, quirky, and caring individual.

Speaker 1 So unlike the last three disappearances, Andrew and Salim's cases are soon linked to the 2010 and 2012 disappearances in the gay village.

Speaker 1 And this reignites the queer community's suspicion that there is a serial killer targeting the area. And finally, the police start listening.

Speaker 1 They launch a task force known as Project PRISM aimed at solving these active cases.

Speaker 1 But by this point, Toronto's queer community has been trying to ring the alarm bell for so long about these missing men, they have real reason to worry that the police are going to let these cases go cold again.

Speaker 1 As prominent Church and Wellesley community member and advocate Nikki Ward puts it, quote, the anger was palpable.

Speaker 1 But then summer turns to fall, turns to winter, the media moves on, some missing posters stay up, and you still see their faces around around the city.

Speaker 1 But the feeling sets into the community that these cases would go unsolved, just like the others.

Speaker 1 But then, fortunately, there's a break in the case. As investigators are looking into Andrew Kinsman's case, they find a handwritten name in Andrew's calendar, and that name is Bruce.

Speaker 1 That's how they learned that Andrew also knew Bruce MacArthur, the 66-year-old Santa Claus landscaper who was treated like a witness back in 2012.

Speaker 1 So finally, five years after they first connect him to the three other missing men, investigators finally take a look at Bruce MacArthur.

Speaker 1 They discreetly put him under 24-hour surveillance, and when they do, detectives follow him to a Toronto property belonging to one of his landscaping clients.

Speaker 1 And that property is not far from where Bazier's car was abandoned back in 2012.

Speaker 2 I just realized how sinister landscaping is in this. Yes.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. Really bad.

Speaker 1 Okay. So now it's September of 2017.
Bruce MacArthur is under surveillance, and investigators watch as he sells the van he owns to an auto parts shop.

Speaker 1 They go in basically right after, sees the vehicle without Bruce knowing. And when the forensic team gets in there, they find traces of blood inside.

Speaker 1 And when the DNA testing comes back, it confirms that the blood belongs to both Celine Essim and Andrew Kinsman. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 So now investigators are able to get a warrant to search search Bruce's house, and they do secretly without him knowing.

Speaker 1 And when they do that, they find a hard drive. And when they open the hard drive, there's a bunch of different folders.

Speaker 1 And eight of those folders are titled with the names of the missing men.

Speaker 2 Holy shit.

Speaker 1 And inside those folders are photos of the missing men, some of them clearly taken after they had been murdered.

Speaker 2 Can you imagine being the forensic investigator?

Speaker 2 Seeing those names and then being like, I know what's going to happen when I open these.

Speaker 1 And there's a ninth folder

Speaker 1 of a name of a person they don't recognize. Holy shit.
No one's been reported missing.

Speaker 1 They cross-check it and now they realize there's a victim out there. Oh my God.

Speaker 1 So in January 2018, the police raid Bruce MacArthur's apartment just in the nick of time. Inside the apartment, they find a man tied to Bruce's bed.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 Luckily, he is physically unharmed at that point. The police have probably just saved his life because when they interview him, they learn this is the man whose name is the title of that ninth folder.

Speaker 2 Oh my God, it's like a fucking movie.

Speaker 1 It's a horrible movie. And so police arrest Bruce MacArthur for the murders of Salim Essom and Andrew Kinsman.

Speaker 2 Holy shit.

Speaker 1 So Bruce MacArthur, just to get a little background on him,

Speaker 1 for context, he's born in a small farming village in 1951. He comes from a, quote, good family.
His high school yearbook notes that his ambition is to, quote, be successful.

Speaker 2 Okay. Go for it.

Speaker 1 After graduating, Bruce gets married, has two children with his wife, and becomes very involved in his church. In the 70s, he gets a job at a department store in downtown Toronto.

Speaker 1 And that department store is just steps away from what then was known as the gay strip.

Speaker 1 And that's exactly around the same time those unsolved murders start taking place. My God.
Eventually, Bruce gets a different job, and that job is as a traveling salesman. Oh, no.

Speaker 1 Later, he starts doing landscaping work. And in doing landscaping work, he builds up an impressive clientele.
He seems to have a charmed life. He's a family man.
He donates to charity.

Speaker 1 He stays active in his church, puts on a Santa suit at the local mall at Christmastime. People like him.

Speaker 1 So eventually, Bruce divorces his wife and begins to live as an openly gay man. But then a darker picture begins to surface.
Bruce's son will later claim that he was abusive.

Speaker 1 Men who encounter Bruce in Toronto's gay community describe him as being very controlling and aggressive.

Speaker 1 And then in 2001, Bruce is arrested after beating a man he's presumably about to have sex with with a metal pipe until he is unconscious.

Speaker 1 Bruce turns himself in the next day. and because of that is able to avoid jail time.

Speaker 1 But he's banned from the gay village for the length of his probation, and then he has to take anger management classes.

Speaker 1 Once probation ends, Bruce starts hanging out in the area again, and even worse, I would say, becomes active on gay dating sites.

Speaker 2 Yikes.

Speaker 1 So after Bruce MacArthur's arrest in 2018, police search for and find the dismembered remains of the eight missing men.

Speaker 1 Their bodies have been hidden on the various Toronto properties that Bruce is a landscaper for.

Speaker 2 Imagine being one of those people who live at the property.

Speaker 1 So horrible.

Speaker 2 You're reading the newspaper in the morning and then like you look at your backyard and you're just like, oh fuck.

Speaker 1 For years and years

Speaker 1 missing people have been hidden on, a lot of them were, the body parts were put in these really large stone planters.

Speaker 2 Oh my God. Oh my God.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's like, because also like the smell would be, you could explain away the smell really easily, manure or whatever, like, you know it's gonna smell for a few days right but

Speaker 1 that is just so creepy yeah so creepy so creepy so the case against bruce macarthur is overwhelming investigators collect more than 18 000 pieces of evidence including clippings of the victim's hair that bruce was keeping presumably as trophies

Speaker 1 he ultimately pleads guilty to eight counts of first-degree murder then in february of 2019 he is sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 25 years, which is the way they do it in Canada.

Speaker 1 He will almost certainly spend the rest of his life behind bars.

Speaker 1 But even with this sentencing, there are many people who worry this story is not over

Speaker 1 because the idea that Bruce MacArthur started killing when he was in his 60s is hard to believe.

Speaker 2 Right. Well, he didn't, right? The 1970s ones are from him.

Speaker 1 We don't know that. Okay.
It's unproven.

Speaker 1 It's just circumstantial. Okay.
That he was basically around the corner when all that started.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 But that's just it. Is if they keep on going, like he was a traveling salesman.
That's horrifying. And so is there somebody that's actually going to sit down now that he's in jail?

Speaker 1 Will someone sit down and actually map out where he was and if there were missing people? And totally. Maybe some podcaster of the future.
That reminds me of true crime bullshit.

Speaker 2 Oh my God.

Speaker 1 Where he's just like mapping the Israel Keys' disappearances.

Speaker 2 Or Payne Lindsay, get on that. Right.

Speaker 1 So far, there's no confirmed links. The composite sketches of the potential suspect from the 70s, you know, you could say doesn't look like him, but he looks like Santa Claus now.
Right.

Speaker 1 So what did he look like in the 70s? I actually have to picture that composite sketch. One of the composite sketches itself is very scary.

Speaker 2 You also don't know if the composite sketch is of the actual perpetrator or just someone someone saw at the same time in the same place. Right.

Speaker 2 It doesn't like, you didn't see him getting murdered by this perpetrator. Right.
You saw this random person around there at the same time.

Speaker 2 So it doesn't necessarily mean that's what the killer looked like.

Speaker 1 Yes. You know, totally.

Speaker 2 Like Unabomber, it's the same thing. Like that creepy sketch with the hoodie and the glasses.
That's not him. That's someone else completely.

Speaker 1 That's the bass player of a yacht rock band, clearly.

Speaker 1 So police have never shared. or found any physical evidence connecting him to those cases.

Speaker 1 But there's another reason why for many people, the case doesn't feel fully resolved, and that's because of how the police handled it for so long.

Speaker 1 The lives of the victims matter just as much as any other person in any other neighborhood in Toronto.

Speaker 1 And again, those victims' names are Skanda Navaratnam, Basir Fazi, Majid Kayan, Sarush Mahmoodi, Karishna Kumar Kanagaratnam,

Speaker 1 Dean Liziewicke, Salim Essen, and Andrew Kinsman.

Speaker 1 And we'll finish the story with another quote quote from activist Nikki Ward, who said, quote, Bruce MacArthur picked people he thought he could get away with killing because they were immigrants, people of color, maybe closeted, maybe homeless.

Speaker 1 That's the common thread tying these men together. And to learn that he was someone walking among us, a wolf in sheep's clothing, was sadly not surprising.

Speaker 1 I take exception to the phrase, he was one of our own, because he most definitely was not. And that's the story of Toronto's gay village murders.

Speaker 2 Wow. I'm so glad you covered that.

Speaker 1 I could have sworn I did.

Speaker 2 Did you do it when we were in Toronto?

Speaker 1 I don't think so.

Speaker 2 Great job. Thank you.
That was amazing. I do think that we should be able to do stories that we did live that never got aired on the podcast now.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 I know, but I think there's only like three.

Speaker 2 That we didn't ever air? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Remember, remember, remember back in the days, like pre-COVID days, when we get down to it, we'd be like, no, that one's really bad. This audio is bad.
Yeah. We'd be like, we don't care.

Speaker 1 We don't, we just want to put something up.

Speaker 2 Steven, post the, how's the audio from fucking, how's the Des Moines audio? Not great? Put it up. Put it up.
We don't care. I can't do it this week.
This week, my brain is fucking broken.

Speaker 2 We're like getting into COVID, put up a fucking live episode, and then we just have a week off and it would just be lovely and beautiful.

Speaker 1 It was just like in that second apartment. Things got real fucking intense.

Speaker 2 In the loft. In the loft.

Speaker 1 It was like, for me, it felt like it was all going up like this. Yeah.
but nothing else was coming back down.

Speaker 1 It was like me working multiple jobs and trying to do it. It was all very intense.

Speaker 2 Yeah, things were not good in that period.

Speaker 1 We'd just be like, Stephen, fix it.

Speaker 2 Poor Stephen. Oh, Stephen.
Love him.

Speaker 1 Every car has that one cup holder full of coins and then maybe some slightly melted hard candy.

Speaker 2 With Acorns, you can take that spare change and put it to use by investing in your future.

Speaker 1 Acorns is the financial wellness app that cares about where your money is going and with the Acorns Potential screen you can see what your money is capable of.

Speaker 2 The Acorns Potential screen shows you the power of compounding and how your money could grow over time. Plus you can adjust how much you're investing to make sure you're building towards your goals.

Speaker 2 Sign up now and Acorns will boost your new account with a $5 bonus investment.

Speaker 1 Join the over 14 million all-time customers who have already saved and invested over $27 billion with Acorns.

Speaker 2 Head to acorns.com slash MFM or download the Acorns app to get started.

Speaker 1 Paid non-client endorsement. Compensation provides an incentive to positively promote Acorns.
Tier 2 compensation provided.

Speaker 2 Potential subject to various factors such as customers' accounts, age, and investment settings. Does not include Acorns fees.

Speaker 2 Results do not predict or represent the performance of any Acorns portfolio. Investment results will vary.

Speaker 1 Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC, an SEC registered investment advisor.
View important disclosures at acorns.com/slash MFM.

Speaker 2 Goodbye. We upgrade everything.

Speaker 1 Our coffee, our skincare, our snacks. But the dog, same brown kibble since the dawn of man.

Speaker 2 All cookie. Luckily, there's just fresh from Just Food for Dogs.
It's real human-grade ingredients, balanced and healthy, and this is the kicker. It's shelf-stable.

Speaker 1 Your dog deserves better than food that's been sitting in a bag for weeks.

Speaker 2 Kibble may be easy, but it's far from fresh, and your dog deserves meals made with real whole ingredients.

Speaker 1 Just like you wouldn't want to eat the same dry processed food every day, your dog shouldn't have to either.

Speaker 2 It's not the 80s anymore, you guys. It's time to step up your game with your pet food because your pets are, obviously, they're they're family, but if you're like us, they're your children, too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm not going to just feed them whatever.

Speaker 1 I love Just Food for Dogs because I'm very concerned about keeping my dogs alive as long as I possibly can. And I have proof, Frank is 17 years old.

Speaker 2 Love it. Fresh food anywhere, anytime.

Speaker 1 Go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50% off your first order. No code needed.
Just do it. Goodbye.
Goodbye.

Speaker 2 Your pet is your best friend, your therapist, and your unpaid intern.

Speaker 1 So don't just feed them, fuel them with Hills Pet Nutrition.

Speaker 2 Hills is backed by science to support whole body health in dogs and cats.

Speaker 1 As a leader in science-led nutrition, Hills supports lean muscles, which are essential for everything your pet does, whether that's the zoomies, squirrel patrol, or occasionally knocking something over.

Speaker 1 Hills science-led nutrition helps you give more love than humanly possible. Because you're only human, there's Hills.

Speaker 2 Science does more. Find the right food at hillspet.com/slash iHeart.
Goodbye.

Speaker 2 Great job. Thank you.
We're going to go in a totally different direction, as we are want to do. Good, good, good.
I think you're going to like this one. Okay.

Speaker 2 I'm going to tell you about what some people called a grifter, but some people called an international adventurer. Okay.
So you can spin on it

Speaker 2 from the 1950s, who caused an uproar in Atlanta society and sent shockwaves throughout the pedigree cocker spaniel community. Your favorite.

Speaker 1 I should have heard about this already.

Speaker 2 Well, okay, this is the story of someone we're going to call for now janet

Speaker 2 janet janet

Speaker 2 the main sources for the story are a book called confident women swindlers grifters and shapeshifters of the feminine persuasion yes read that by tori telefer and reporting from the tulsa world your favorite paper it's a good one the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes i'm definitely reading that book for sure yeah you should all right so here we are it's 1954 we're in decatur georgia it's an atlanta suburb that borders the city limits so it's kind of small towny still and then a glamorous somewhat mysterious, middle-aged woman has just moved into town with her 15-year-old niece.

Speaker 2 The woman introduces herself to the neighbors as Janet Gray and says that the teen is Candace Victoria Lane, her niece, who goes by Candy. So her name is Candy Lane, which is already like.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. Is her middle name Kane?

Speaker 1 Because what are we doing?

Speaker 2 Janet says she's from Washington, D.C., and the circumstances that have brought her to Atlanta are absolutely tragic. She's just lost her husband, but the details are kind of vague.

Speaker 2 Janet lost a child at birth, she said. And then two weeks after her husband's sudden death, her last remaining child was hit by a school bus and killed.
That's her horror story. Don't get upset.
Okay.

Speaker 2 It's not true. Great.

Speaker 1 It doesn't feel very true.

Speaker 2 It's not, but she comes with this sob story of why she's here and, hey, why I have a lot of fucking money too. Oh.
So Janet and Candy settle right into the new neighborhood.

Speaker 2 Well, actually, Janet settles in. Candy starts at a local prestigious high school, but she has trouble making friends and she's frequently out of school due to poor health.

Speaker 2 She's just not getting into the high school spirit and not being accepted, Candy Lane. Yeah.
Also, everyone thinks it's weird that Candy, who is 15 years old, looks way older than that.

Speaker 2 She's called, quote, built like Marilyn Monroe. Oh.
Like the word buxom is thrown around a lot. So they're like, this isn't a 15-year-old girl.
Okay. Right.
Something's fishy, but it's the 1950s.

Speaker 2 People believe what you tell them.

Speaker 1 They just are reading the one newspaper. Right.
And

Speaker 2 yeah.

Speaker 1 It's like simpler time. You haven't heard about all the crazy people in the world the way we get to these days.

Speaker 2 Right. Exactly.
And that's why you listen to this podcast.

Speaker 2 So meanwhile, Janet, she appears to be thriving.

Speaker 2 She buys a big house in an upscale neighborhood, hires contractors to put in a big pool in the backyard, as well as a big kennel, because it turns out that one of Janet's big passions, like yours, is cocker spaniels.

Speaker 2 Cocker spaniels. Always.
Right. Yep.
Have you ever met one? I've never met a cocker spaniel, I don't think.

Speaker 1 Are they the ones that are kind of brown and long ears, floppy ears?

Speaker 2 Yeah, like blondish with like curly or like wavy kind of. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I feel like that was a standard dog in that right around here.

Speaker 2 They're just holding it like it was a show dog. Yep.
With tail up, head up. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think I've met a couple, but my Aunt Jean next door, they had Springer Spaniels.

Speaker 2 Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 Nellie was their dog. And I think she was, she may have been a breed dog in some way because that's what like farm people do.
That's sometimes where they're like, when they have puppies, we sell them.

Speaker 1 Right, totally.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I don't know the personality.
I'm assuming that they're, I don't know why, haughty. That's just like my take on looking at them.
Cocker spaniels?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Who knows?

Speaker 2 Maybe it's because they're show dogs. And I'm just like.

Speaker 1 They're like princess. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Princessy? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That feels right.

Speaker 2 And so in a very short time, while she's living in Decatur, she acquires between 30 and 50 of of them some of which have won big prizes at dog shows. Okay.

Speaker 2 So these are like, she's like a show dog lady. Collector.
Collector. 30 to 50 dogs.
No thank you. And her neighbors hated her and you know it.

Speaker 1 Just up with the dawn.

Speaker 2 One starts barking.

Speaker 2 Oh my god. Yeah.
Like, no, you can't do that.

Speaker 1 Sorry, in just a regular neighborhood?

Speaker 2 I think it was a well-to-do neighborhood where there's probably lots of like land.

Speaker 1 I would hope so.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so they like built a pool in the backyard. They built, but it wasn't like, you know, country side.
It was like a neighborhood, a well-to-do neighborhood. 30 dogs.
30 to 50 dogs. 50 dogs.

Speaker 2 Put 50 dogs in this room right now. Yeah.
We can't fucking tell you.

Speaker 1 Don't start screaming. Please don't.

Speaker 2 It's too many. I mean, I love dogs, but like 10 times.

Speaker 1 30 to 50 of anything. No.
Like imagine like 30 to 50 Snickers bars. I'd be like, this is crazy.

Speaker 2 I do cats. I would do cats.

Speaker 1 I would do cats. You're getting there.

Speaker 2 I would, I'd take, I take them.

Speaker 2 They're so much more like manageable and they don't bark.

Speaker 1 You're like, can I get a slightly smaller home for these cats? I really want to feel all of them.

Speaker 2 Oh, poor Vince. Okay, so one of her dogs is named Capital Gain,

Speaker 2 and it actually wins its division at a dog show in South Carolina in 1956. And she also acquires a famous cocker spaniel named Rise and Shine.

Speaker 2 I guess they're like race horses where they have weird nasty names. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Rise and shine. Who won the Westminster Dog Show? Holy.
It was still a thing back then. Yep.

Speaker 1 It still is a thing in our family.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you put it on immediately.

Speaker 1 Isn't it like Thanksgiving Day? I feel feel like there's a holiday we watch it. He has a tank.

Speaker 2 You're thinking of the puppy bowl.

Speaker 2 You're thinking of the Super Bowl.

Speaker 2 It's on Thanksgiving, right? Yep. Every year.
So Janet quickly ingratiates herself into Atlanta society. She is very glamorous.
She's like older lady, but that just means, you know.

Speaker 2 like bigger jewelry no just like the age thing is like an old lady is in her 50s then

Speaker 2 like it's not but she acts like an older lady but she is very like refined she has a closet full of beautiful dresses and furs and hats, and her home is immaculately furnished. It's like gorgeous.

Speaker 2 Okay. She's known around town as a very generous tipper, which we love.

Speaker 2 We got served by a murderino. I forgot.

Speaker 2 What? We got served by a murderino at this restaurant called La Supreme when we were, Vince and I were in Detroit last week. I think her name is Marie.

Speaker 2 And she was so wonderful and like gave us like, you know, after dinner drinks and dessert and was just so nice. And then I was like, Vince, what if we don't tip her? Wouldn't that be funny?

Speaker 2 I was totally kidding, but like, obviously, but like, how, what a great way to ruin everything. Yes, just not tip.

Speaker 1 She's just being super cool. And then you're just, the tip is a weird Bible quote.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You're just like, bye, Maria.
How funny would that? I mean, not at all. We obviously.
Never. Yeah, but never.
Just kind of like, what if?

Speaker 1 Wait, that reminds me of walking down Michigan Avenue. Oh, no, I think we're on.
whacker or something, but when we passed Megan, who saw you first as we were walking and said, hi to Chicago?

Speaker 1 In Chicago.

Speaker 2 She was listening to our podcast as she walked by us.

Speaker 1 Listening to the podcast and then walked and I was like 10 steps behind her. And I turned over.

Speaker 2 She looked at me. She was like, oh, my God.
And then I pointed back to you. I was like, and that one's here too.

Speaker 1 She's like, and by the time she got up to me, it kind of looked like she was crying, but it was so cold that it could have just been that.

Speaker 1 But she just pulled an earpod out and was just like, I'm listening to you now.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, this must be so weird. What a trip.

Speaker 1 Sorry to fuck with you, Megan.

Speaker 2 It's the Matrix.

Speaker 2 And she's also one of the best customers at the local dressmaker obviously she's highly recognizable around town because she drives a bright pink lincoln there's like a scammer thing where they're basically like all eyes on me right and then i think the the the like logic of the people around is like it couldn't be them they wouldn't draw this much attention themselves right and like everyone else loves her and is around her all the time yeah it's like a chameleon kind of thing yeah no one knows exactly the source of her wealth but everyone assumes that her dead husband had a lot of money people also vaguely allude to to her coming from a family of money, and so they think that she's the daughter of a high-ranking military officer.

Speaker 2 I'm sure she's like planted little seeds here and there.

Speaker 2 So it's kind of a surprise when Janet gets a job as a bookkeeper at a local doctor's office in Decatur, because why would she need a job if she's rich?

Speaker 2 But people assume that she likes to keep herself busy. She works there about three and a half years and life seems to continue on normally.

Speaker 2 This all comes to a grinding halt at the end of July 1957 when Janet's bosses from the doctor's clinic where she works give her a call, they said they'd hired an auditor to go over the books because something seemed fishy, and the auditor had found that about $100,000 appeared to be unaccounted for.

Speaker 2 In today's money, what they called ring, ring, ring nowadays, and they're like, hey, we got audited. Here's how much is missing.
Like, what would a lot of fucking money be? Well, it's the 50s.

Speaker 1 So that's like,

Speaker 2 I was going to say 100 years ago.

Speaker 1 Like a million and a half.

Speaker 2 A million. Good job.

Speaker 2 But imagine being like, hey, we're a mill short on the till. Yeah.
And you're the person who's in charge of all of it.

Speaker 1 And you're the one with the big pencil in your hand.

Speaker 2 Can you come? And they're like, can you come in and like explain this? And she's like, absolutely. Like, I'll be in on Monday.
Like, don't even worry about it. And I'm sure it's not a big deal.

Speaker 2 You know, and they're like, okay, good. Cause they like love her and trust her.
And also the $100,000 number goes up like later. So that's just like kind of a

Speaker 1 starting point. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But as soon as she hangs up the phone, she springs into action. She rents three moving vans and hires a handyman to come help her move out.
Two vans are filled with furniture and clothing.

Speaker 2 And one is filled with about 40 cocker spaniels.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Into the truck, guys, up the little ramp. Was there any cushions in there or anything for you?

Speaker 2 And she finds homes for a few other dogs.

Speaker 1 And also the number of cocker spaniels is sometimes changes as well yeah the next morning she and her quote niece get into the pink lincoln with three moving vans following behind and they skedaddle out of town but they do you know now can i just say this maybe we've all learned this up until this point or since that time if you're gonna call and say hey we've noticed some questions in the books do you mind coming in on monday you're calling from the car outside their house right so that you can see if that's that's what they're about to do.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 And then that's how you know. Yeah.
Totally. Yeah.
So they didn't have car phones back then, did they? They had their hands.

Speaker 1 They could have very easily.

Speaker 2 They had a banana they could hold up as a phone, didn't they?

Speaker 2 All right. Here's the truth.
Janet's real name is Margaret Lydia Burton, although her maiden name is McGlashen. Like

Speaker 2 Mary McLashen. Margaret is born in 1906 in Taijin, China, born to British well-to-do parents.
Margaret's father dies when she's about 11 and and the family moves first to England and then to Canada.

Speaker 2 By the time she's 28, Margaret is living in Panama and manages a rug importing company,

Speaker 2 which has ties to the part of China where she grew up. So then she marries an American named Jasper Burton.
And in the 1930s, they have a baby girl named Sheila.

Speaker 2 Sheila, it turns out, is the real identity of her niece, Candy Kane, who's her daughter, not in high school, who is 20 years old.

Speaker 2 So they were not not wrong okay well we'll we hear more about that later kind of the why

Speaker 2 we'll talk about it okay we'll theorize okay we're really good at that okay so it's not clear why sheila had to pretend to be younger and a niece maybe like she was vain and didn't want to seem like an elderly mother with a 20 i don't know it's just There's no reasoning that I can understand from that.

Speaker 2 But it's thought that maybe Margaret wanted to protect her daughter from being culpable for any embezzlement. So that's, that's the positive one.
The negative could be whatever. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So the first known case of that kind of embezzlement crops up in 1939. And by that point, the Rug Company has transferred Margaret to Honolulu.

Speaker 2 Margaret and Jasper separate when Sheila is about two years old and he stays behind in Panama.

Speaker 2 Margaret's bosses realize she's been stealing money from the company, but before her case goes to court, Margaret and her baby daughter, Skid Adel, there's a theme, to Los Angeles where her mother and brother live.

Speaker 2 There, the LAPD arrests her for the Honolulu embezzlement case, but the the governor of California, for some reason, declines to extradite her to Hawaii. So, shortly after this,

Speaker 2 and I wrote warning to knitterinos, Margaret collects investments from Los Angeles knitting enthusiasts saying that she's planning to open up a yarn shop. That's her scheme.

Speaker 2 Instead, she makes off with close to $10,000, which is $113,000 in today's money. And it's at this point that Margaret starts using aliases for herself and her daughter.

Speaker 2 By the time she's caught, she has about 22 different identities. Yes.
A lot.

Speaker 2 It's easy to do back then. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Margaret and Sheila eventually end up in San Antonio, and it's here that Margaret gets a job at a dog kennel and discovers her passion for cocker spaniels.

Speaker 1 I mean, can you imagine the first day she walked into that kennel and suddenly she's like, I got to get 50 of these yesterday.

Speaker 2 Imagine 50 chihuahuas if she had fallen in love with chihuahuas instead.

Speaker 1 There's so many dogs I wouldn't want 50 of.

Speaker 2 I'd do 50 chihuahuas. Yeah, I would do 50 chihuahuas.

Speaker 1 I do 50 terriers like Frank and Blossom.

Speaker 2 I like that kind of dog. Maybe it's because Cookie's a Chihuahua, and I'm like, definitely.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Our dogs have done a good job representing themselves and their breeds to us.

Speaker 2 They've indoctrinated us into their

Speaker 1 true believer. But there's some dogs where I'm just like, never.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So she starts using some of her ill-gotten money to buy show dogs. They cost thousands of dollars.
There's also reports that she steals some dogs from other owners.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yoink. There's not a lot of information about how many dogs were stolen and how she would have done this because they're show dogs.
So they're kind of shuffled around a bit.

Speaker 2 Like no one knows who the actual owner, who the breeder, who the trainer is.

Speaker 2 So then throughout the 40s and early 50s, Margaret and Sheila bounce around all over town, New Orleans, Denver, St. Louis, Norfolk, Virginia.

Speaker 2 In each place, Margaret gets a new job, often as a bookkeeper in a doctor's office. And when patients come in, and back then they paid with mostly cash, right? Lots of cash like flowing.
She's

Speaker 2 Yeah. Margaret pockets a lot of it.
When she gets caught or close to being caught, she and Sheila skid at all. God.

Speaker 1 Yeah. What a way to live.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 As my dad said to me once, there's some people that can't keep their hands out of the till.

Speaker 1 And at the time, I had been stealing $20 a week from the job I was at so I could buy beer. Oh, no.
I'd only done it twice. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then I was like, oh no. And I never did it again.

Speaker 2 That's good.

Speaker 1 Cause I was, I justified it. I was like, they're paying me minimum wage.
And then

Speaker 2 I was like, dude.

Speaker 1 And then the second time, oh, it was because the person, I also worked at the student union at Sac State. And our boss, who was always like kind of in everyone's business and da-da-da.

Speaker 1 I mean, what have you been doing? And can we see, will you do the, the, um, count again on your thing?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And they had embezzled like $500,000.

Speaker 2 Holy shit, shut up. Yes.

Speaker 1 So that had just happened.

Speaker 2 How do you do that?

Speaker 1 Same thing where I think it's just like just a little bit here and a little bit there and you work there for 20 years and no one suspects you.

Speaker 2 All the jobs I've had that I've had to work the till, which is a lot of them, like the count out at the end of the night, if I were under by five cents, I would be devastated. Yes.

Speaker 2 Like that, because I was so good. Like I was like, there's no fucking way.
I did that, but there was always some amount of money you were under. Yes.
Or over. Randomly.
You were also in trouble.

Speaker 1 Like when I worked at the gap, you were in trouble if you were over and if you were.

Speaker 1 Like you couldn't win. No.
That just reminds me of, though, you keeping perfect track of our merch money in the beginning, where you would just be like, well, here's, there it is. Just so you know.

Speaker 2 Aren't you glad I'm not an embezzler? I really am.

Speaker 1 I would have, it would have been very difficult on top of everything else.

Speaker 2 Where do you think that podloft money came from?

Speaker 1 God damn it.

Speaker 2 Where'd you get all these frames for these pictures? Okay.

Speaker 2 So that brings us back to 1957 when Janet, that's the fake fake name, who's about 51 at this point, fails to show up at her doctor's office in Decatur. And her coworkers call the police.

Speaker 2 They quickly loop in the FBI because they're assuming she's crossing state lines. She's driving a fucking pink car and has two moving vans following her, one of which is full of cocker spaniels.

Speaker 2 So one of the agents says it'll be like, quote, finding an elephant in a haystack. You know? Yep.
It's like not the smoothest. Get her.
In actuality, Margaret proves not so easy to find.

Speaker 2 It turns out that the FBI's best clue is the trail of cocker spaniels.

Speaker 2 Okay, so a movie van full of cocker spaniels is like reported as a very funny, comical thing, but in actuality, it's clearly not safe or humane. As you said, yeah, there's no fucking pillows.

Speaker 2 And two of the 40-ish dogs actually don't survive the journey, which is so sad. This would be so hot.
So hot and probably no water.

Speaker 1 No, it's horrible. No, it's awful.

Speaker 2 Most of the other dogs are dropped off with a trainer in North Carolina, but Margaret keeps three of the dogs herself.

Speaker 2 She's in love with them. And the FBI.

Speaker 1 She's in love with them except for the one she killed.

Speaker 2 She's in love with these three, I guess. Risen Shine, Capital Gain, and Piccolo Pete.

Speaker 1 My favorite fireworks.

Speaker 2 And the FBI finds the moving vans and the Pink Lincoln abandoned in South Carolina. As the news of Margaret's flight from Atlanta spreads, she's actually seen by many as a lovable anti-hero.

Speaker 2 And it's kind of a feminist thing, too, where they're like, she got over on these like smart doctors who think they know everything.

Speaker 2 And people are rooting for her to get out of the country and evade capture. They're like, you know.
But one group that's not impressed at all is the southeastern chapter of the American Spaniel Club.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Because they liked her so much and she was a prominent member that they had been in the process of naming her as their regional leader.
So she was an actress. She was good at fooling people.

Speaker 2 True sociopath. Exactly.
One member says, quote, it was like picking up the paper and reading that President Eisenhower was a spy for the communists, end quote. I'm just like, hey, welcome to today.

Speaker 2 Hi, how are you? Guess what?

Speaker 2 1957, I've got some news for you.

Speaker 2 The FBI underestimates Margaret completely. She manages to evade capture for about a month, getting us to the end of August 1957.
She and Sheila wind up in Tulsa. They rent a house.

Speaker 2 Margaret assumes a new identity, going by Madge Burton.

Speaker 1 Madge? Madge. Getting that name back.

Speaker 2 Pretty great. A baby named Madge.
Smoking. Oh, smell the baby.
Smoke a Madge. She loves her legendary slams.

Speaker 1 Let her have another one before she goes to sleep.

Speaker 2 Just let her. She'll go right down.

Speaker 2 Give her two more cigarettes. Give her a Cosmo and a cigarette, and she'll go right down.

Speaker 2 So she goes to a doctor's office and gets a job there. Yes.
They don't ask for any references because Madge tells them her husband was a doctor.

Speaker 2 She worked in his office for years and years, and he left her for another woman. So she doesn't have references, but she's got a lot lot of experience.
And they're like, great, get over here.

Speaker 2 And she actually does seem to have a lot of experience because she has done that. So they believe her.

Speaker 1 She's stolen at all the great doctors' offices around the Midwest.

Speaker 2 Then after Madge had been at the clinic for a week or two, a story about Margaret Burton, her real identity, runs in the Tulsa world and it catches the attention of the office manager who hired her.

Speaker 2 Partly because of obviously working in a doctor's office, but also Margaret had a lot of freckles. And so she matched that up.
And the article describes her daughter, Sheila, as, quote, buxom.

Speaker 2 And the office manager had seen this daughter and was like, bingo, it's Jessica Rabbit.

Speaker 1 You know? The 15-year-old? Yeah, the 20-year-old. The 15, 20-year-old?

Speaker 2 Exactly. So the office manager is a rat and calls the FBI.
I'm kidding.

Speaker 2 And when they knock on the door of the house rented in Tulsa, they are greeted by the daughter, Sheila, and three cocker spaniels, which is like, change up the dogs. You're like giving it away.

Speaker 1 Or at least put them away for a bit.

Speaker 2 Or like put a disguise on them.

Speaker 1 A raccoon disguise.

Speaker 2 Three raccoons. What are you guys doing? Well, there's no cocker spaniels here.
I guess we got to get out of here. This can't be the same place.

Speaker 2 Margaret and Sheila are both promptly arrested and extradited back to Georgia, where they're slapped with state charges of forgery and larceny. It turns out that the federal charges don't stick.

Speaker 2 Like she gets lucky. And so the three dogs are all brought to a local kennel, but they're technically impounded, like with all of Margaret's other property.

Speaker 2 Like, can you imagine going to that fucking sale?

Speaker 2 Oh my God. Like not next on the block.
The American Spaniel Club raises what is basically today about $17,000 to buy back the best in show dog, Rise and Shine. Pig little Pete, come here.

Speaker 2 Come here, darling. It's your mama.

Speaker 2 That's your mommy. So all this comes out in the press and Sheila's birth father, her dad, Jasper Burton, who hasn't seen her since she left Panama as as a toddler, comes out of the woodwork.

Speaker 2 It turns out he'd been living in nearby Athens, Georgia. He's thrilled to find his daughter again.
And the charges against Sheila are dropped completely.

Speaker 2 It does seem like she had nothing to do with her mother's schemes. That again started when she was a baby.
And you've got to imagine the mind fuck she grew up with.

Speaker 1 Non-stop. Non-stop mind fuck.
Everything is either for money or cocker spaniels.

Speaker 2 And we got to get the fuck out of here now. We have to leave.
You're not this person. You're that person.
That probably went on her entire life.

Speaker 1 I wonder if the high school thing is like, you can go to high school in Decatur when we get there.

Speaker 2 Right. You can go to high school at the next place.
No, it'll be great. You're going to go.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Listen, you'll be a cheerleader this year. And she just keeps on doing it.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's kind of a, what's it called? Not Rosemary's Baby, but Mommy Dearest. Yes.

Speaker 2 Where it's just a little like, I mean, yeah, there's got to be some kind of like trauma bond with her mother there.

Speaker 1 Right. Right.
And also, I think only child, I'm only saying this because I've observed my sister and my niece where it's like, it's closer than average because there's just one of each. Totally.

Speaker 1 And so they're team

Speaker 2 each other. Literally, you can't make friends because you can't tell them anything truthful.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Everything about your mother's life is this insane lie that you're trying to fit into.
Totally.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because also if you were thinking about, if you're past the age of high school, but you're moving to these new towns, what are you supposed to do?

Speaker 2 Hang around the pool hall or something?

Speaker 1 Like what are you doing? Totally. To socialize, you wouldn't be able to.

Speaker 2 And I'm sure your mom tracks everything that that you do. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 2 When reporters ask her questions, they say that she's shy, reserved, and says that she's just scared that she's never going to see her mom again.

Speaker 2 So Margaret faces charges all over the country, and her Georgia trial begins in December of 1957, ends in a mistrial because a juror hears his pastor at a sermon talking shit, essentially, on Margaret.

Speaker 2 And so it's shit the juror is not supposed to know. And so it's a mistrial.
Wow. Great.

Speaker 1 That's actually the ultimate getting out of it.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It's not his fault.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It was church.

Speaker 2 It's my fucking, you know how pastors have big mouths and shit. Just trying to be a good Christian man.
Gossip, gossip, these fucking pastors.

Speaker 2 Every Sunday. Every Sunday.
Just talking shit about cases. At the second trial, Margaret says that actually the doctors at the clinic she worked for were trying to evade taxes and she caught them.

Speaker 2 And so they tried to accuse her of embezzling. Yes.
It's not her fault.

Speaker 1 Nope, she's the victim.

Speaker 2 She also faints a lot during the trial.

Speaker 1 Oh, as you do. One of these? Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know how you just, women just faint all the time.

Speaker 1 Like sitting down in the witness box. Yeah.
She slide out of the chair like it, like comedy style, just slide underneath.

Speaker 2 Hey, I'm fainting. And people are skeptical of it even then.
And in the end, she's found guilty of two counts of larceny and two counts of forgery and serves two years in prison.

Speaker 2 When she gets out, some of the other states have dropped their charges, but several others opt to ask the federal government to deport her rather than her going to trial since she's actually a British citizen originally.

Speaker 2 So they're like, we won't charge her and try her if you get her out of here.

Speaker 2 Before she's deported, though, she's charged in Los Angeles for the knitting shop scheme, pleads guilty, and serves about nine months in the county jail.

Speaker 2 And then Sheila, her daughter, winds up moving to L.A. to live with Margaret's brother back in L.A.
He's a movie producer.

Speaker 2 His name is Ian McGlashen, and Allie looked it up on IMDb, and the only credit to his name is a 1964 movie called Three Nuts in Search of a Bolt.

Speaker 2 Your favorite. Yes.
Your favorite late-night movie.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. Those nuts are nuts.

Speaker 2 Svenguli. It's a Svengooli classic.
It seems like the daughter lives a quiet life. Like, there's no information about her online.
There's like a photo on her, like, find a grave. Looks like a grandma.

Speaker 2 She's smiling. That's kind of all you've got.

Speaker 1 There's just a tiny picture on the bottom. It's no dogs allowed.

Speaker 2 From that day on, she fucking hates dogs.

Speaker 1 Never been around a dog since.

Speaker 2 It seems like she lives a quiet life. She gets married and has one child and she dies in 2015.
Wow. As an older lady.

Speaker 2 Margaret, meanwhile, is deported back to England in 1960, though some point, and no one seems to know when, she schemes her way back to the U.S.

Speaker 2 and dies in Los Angeles in 1992. So I bet she was back with her daughter.

Speaker 1 I bet she was.

Speaker 2 And who knows what kind of caper she got into that she didn't get caught for.

Speaker 1 Right, because now she's a whole new person.

Speaker 2 I bet she was the one at the grocery store who's like, I'll give you a 20. And like, actually, give me back the change for that.
And she does like the change thing.

Speaker 2 And oh, no, give me five, five, fives for that. And I'll give you back your 20.

Speaker 1 She could be the old lady when I was so broke and I found a $20 bill.

Speaker 2 Uh-oh.

Speaker 1 I put it in my pocket of my corduroy pants.

Speaker 1 And then I was in the super cheap sunglasses store on Hollywood Boulevard because I was going down to like the Walgreens or whatever. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I was standing there like, oh, I can buy a pair of sunglasses for like five bucks.

Speaker 1 And this old lady came and like was standing to the side of me. And I wasn't looking.
And finally, I looked and she was standing there smiling. And she's like, hi.
And I was like, hi.

Speaker 1 And then she walked away. My 20 bucks was gone.

Speaker 2 Shut the fuck. I thought she was going to say it was her.
That's my 20. No, she straight up robbed you.

Speaker 1 She robbed me and then made me look her in the eye with a big smile. And I bet you it was fucking Janet.

Speaker 2 I bet you anything. She was in Los Angeles.
It was her. Oh my God.
How amazing would that be? So here's her photo. Oh my God.

Speaker 2 That's her. So yeah, she dies in Los Angeles in 1992 at the age of 85.

Speaker 2 Could have been. Yep.
And that is the story of the serial embezzler or the international adventurer,

Speaker 2 Margaret Lydia Burton. Wow.

Speaker 1 That was great.

Speaker 2 Thank you. There's only a few photos of her too, and like no information about after she went back.
There's a photo of her getting. Yeah, she's getting out of this car.

Speaker 2 She kind of looks like a little old lady, even though she's got like no wrinkles. She's like the little old lady shampoo set, glamorous dress, and she's got the like railroad case with her makeup in.

Speaker 2 And she's getting out of the car at the courthouse like it's a fucking premiere of a movie and she's the star. Yeah.
And she's like just eating it up.

Speaker 2 And it's just kind of like, God, I bet she was fun.

Speaker 1 I bet she was fun. And I bet you that's why the press or like, that's why the public was able to get this kind of counter like anti-hero thing going for her.

Speaker 1 Because it's like, well, you're showing up in an outfit. You seem to have a great attitude.

Speaker 2 totally americans don't need much more no yeah you're getting it over on the man yeah kind of love that yeah so fuck it fun be a stealer be a steeler

Speaker 2 well we did thank you you did it do you want to do some arrays sure

Speaker 2 should we be doing fucking arrays too you and i sure and we don't have one

Speaker 1 next week yeah i'm gonna start next week mine's stevo every every week i'm gonna give this stevo

Speaker 2 Okay, let's do some fucking hoorays. At the end of the show, we do just things you're fucking happy about.
Hashtag us on Instagram or on YouTube page on this episode.

Speaker 1 Yep. Mine's from email.
My first one. You want me to read it?

Speaker 2 Do it. That works.

Speaker 1 The subject line is Karen's Yogurt fucking hooray. And it says, hi, everyone.
I'm an early listener. And your podcast has given me so much over the years.
Laughter, comfort, mental health support.

Speaker 1 But Karen talking about her little morning yogurt has saved my coffee routine. Do you remember this?

Speaker 1 I just learned on TikTok, of course, that to save the cortisol zip of drinking coffee on an empty stomach in the morning, I just drink a little drinkable yogurt first and let my body process that, then drink the coffee like

Speaker 2 I also heard eat a couple walnuts, just like two walnuts.

Speaker 1 Oh, for the same reason.

Speaker 1 See, I can't eat one that's got to get cold sore.

Speaker 2 Oh, no. Okay, don't do this.
I did a separate.

Speaker 1 It says, save my morning coffee routine and my esophagus. And for that, I am forever grateful.

Speaker 1 So fucking hooray for midlife hacks and a terrine of black coffee to keep us going through the terrible, Kate.

Speaker 2 I love it. I love hacks so much.
It's a good hack. Yeah.

Speaker 1 To realize that I was just piling on, like, because I think I'm trying to get started in the morning. And it's like, you're literally signaling more cortisol.

Speaker 2 Seriously. Yeah, it's a monster.
Okay, mine is from YouTube, from our YouTube page. It's youtube.com slash exactly right media.

Speaker 2 And this is from a Kelsey because remember, we were saying we have to have a Kelsey. I had a couple of those in there.
I'm a Kelsey, and I have a fucking hooray today.

Speaker 2 First, my older sister, shout out Celia, got me listening to you from the start, and I've been hooked ever since.

Speaker 2 Today, my fucking hooray is my mom receiving life-saving surgery for an aortic aneurysm.

Speaker 2 She had a complicated health history, and I like to think her doctors were nerds who wanted to get to the bottom of it because they ended up coincidentally finding the aneurysm on an unrelated scan.

Speaker 2 And today, she got it removed and is going to be fine. Yay.

Speaker 2 So scary. Her first words to my stepfather when she woke up were, do my girls know I'm okay? She truly is the best.

Speaker 2 When you were shouting out Kelsey's at the end of the episode, I was like, I have to share this. SSDGM at 7KS45.
Kelsey Kelsey.

Speaker 1 I'm so glad your mom's okay.

Speaker 2 That's amazing.

Speaker 1 Very, very scary.

Speaker 2 Get your checkups, everyone. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, this is from Instagram.

Speaker 1 It was a social media comment on episode 473, and it is from Deb Miller-Landau, the author of the book A Devil Went Down to Georgia, which is based on a recent story I did about the murder of Lita McClinton.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. It says, My hashtag fucking hooray is that this little murderino's dream came true.
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 Several months ago, I emailed MFM, and today on episode 473, Karen told the story of Lita McClinton based on my book, A Devil Went Down to Georgia. Thank you for honoring Lita.

Speaker 1 Enough with rich white guys getting away with murder and and all the other horrible shit, right?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 1 Yes, Deb Miller Lando. Huge shout out to Maren for loving the book and getting the story on the show.
Fucking hooray to you all.

Speaker 2 I love that. I know.
Isn't that great?

Speaker 1 Yes. Congratulations, Deb Miller Lando.
What a great book.

Speaker 2 Good job. Okay, my last one is also a YouTube comment.
It was commented on episode 473 on YouTube. Fucking hooray.
April Fool's Day marked five years sober from alcohol for me.

Speaker 2 It did not seem possible and it wasn't easy, but the blessings have been abundant. I left the medical field in 2022 and am now supervising a group of badass police record clerks.

Speaker 2 Thanks for all you do. SSDGM, Ashley, at Ashley William-D5M.

Speaker 1 Congratulations, Ashley.

Speaker 2 Five years.

Speaker 1 That's a long time. I can't.

Speaker 2 That's a big deal. That's a big deal.
That's amazing. Yep.
Good job. Send us your fucking horizon, you guys.
Yeah. We'll do ours next week too.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we'll start doing some too. Yeah.
We'll have a little more gratitude in our lives. That's a good idea.

Speaker 2 Let's do it. Yeah.
Thank you guys for listening. We appreciate you so much.

Speaker 1 And stay sexy.

Speaker 2 And don't get murdered.

Speaker 2 Keyboy.

Speaker 2 Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 This has been an exactly right production.

Speaker 2 Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

Speaker 1 Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

Speaker 2 This episode was mixed by Liana Squalachi.

Speaker 1 Our researchers are Maren McLashen and Allie Elkin.

Speaker 2 Email your hometowns to myfavorite murder at gmail.com.

Speaker 1 Follow the show on Instagram at myfavorite murder.

Speaker 2 Listen to MyFavorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page. While you're there, please like and subscribe.

Speaker 2 Goodbye.

Speaker 1 No one brings out your inner monster like a bad neighbor.

Speaker 2 Claire Daines and Matthew Reese find that out for themselves in The Beast in Me, a new eight-episode drama from the team that brought you homeland. Baines plays Aggie Wiggs, a grieving writer.

Speaker 2 Reese plays Niall Jarvis, her new neighbor and possible murderer.

Speaker 1 But who's the monster and who's the bad neighbor? That's another story.

Speaker 2 It's a game of cat and mouse that sets them on a collision course with fatal consequences.

Speaker 1 The Beast in Me, now playing only on Netflix.

Speaker 2 You will not want to miss this. Goodbye.
Goodbye. We're careful about what we eat, drink, and clean with.
We should take as much care with what we put on our faces.

Speaker 1 Crunchy makes high-performance, non-toxic skincare and makeup.

Speaker 2 So, Crunchy just sent me some products and I am losing my mind.

Speaker 2 I put some of their beautifully flawless foundation on one of my hands and so now one of my hands looks 10 years younger than my other hand.

Speaker 1 So visit crunchy.com to shop Clean Beauty that performs and take 20% off your order with code MFM.

Speaker 2 That's code MFM at C-R-U-N-C-H-I dot com. The real Clean Beauty.
Goodbye. Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Big news. Aldi is now on Uber Eats and you get 40% off on your first order with code New Aldi25.

Speaker 2 So, whether your fridge is empty and you're too tired to shop, or you just ran out of essential ingredients in the middle of meal prep, don't worry.

Speaker 1 Fill your fridge in just a few taps and get 40% off your first Aldi order on Uber Eats.

Speaker 2 For orders over $30, you can save up to $25. Ends December 31st.
See App for details. Goodbye.