Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 60: Jazz It

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Goodbye.

Hello,

and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

As you well know, every Wednesday we recap our old podcast episodes with all new commentary, updates, and insights.

And today we're recapping episode 60, which we named Jazz It.

Perfect name.

Find out why.

So good.

This episode came out on March 16th, 2017.

So let's get into it.

The intro of episode 60, Jazz It.

Hi.

Hi.

Hi.

How's it going?

Good.

How are you?

Real good.

Yourself?

Good, thank you.

Good, good.

Good.

This is my favorite murder.

We're a podcast that talks about

true crime stories and

really breaks them down.

Yep.

And that's all we talk about.

That's

not true.

There is a lot of lying on this podcast.

And we don't, yeah, this is pretty, this is pretty exactly how it goes.

Yeah, if you don't like it, go away.

Don't, Heron gets real mad at you guys sometimes.

I feel like people kind of like at live shows,

they like when you yell at them.

So they'll purposely like scream something.

Well, I mean, some of those live shows, it's like those people have never been in a theater or been to a live show before.

It's just like drunk girls who are repeat yelling the same thing over and over.

That's not how you act.

Then you hear other people shushing those people.

Oh, God.

It's just intense.

It's just like, it feels like there's a fight's going to break out.

And it might be, and it might be with you.

Oh, that's fine with me.

I'm thoroughly trained.

You love a bar fight.

God, I'm sorry.

I do have some

corrections.

When you were talking about Sam Shepard,

and you told that story, I began to confuse Sam Shepard with

Dr.

Jeffrey McDonald, who also killed his whole family or is suspected of.

He's the one with the, there was saying there's three crazy people.

They like to say these things.

Yes.

Your guy, Sam Shepard, was in the early 60s.

My guy that I was thinking you were talking about was in 69.

And so the whole time, that's why at one point in that episode, I was like, what year was it?

Because I was like,

in my mind, there's no way there could be two doctors who killed their whole families and were like, like guilty or like suspected and also equally not suspected.

And got away.

Well, this is

Sham Shepard's the one.

Sham Shepard.

Sham.

He's a sham.

Sam Shepard's the one who got kind of famous afterwards.

Yeah.

And like was it kind of a douche.

I mean, they were both.

And

they both.

didn't kill their children who were sleeping in the bedroom next to where they killed their wives.

Well, I don't want to agree because I allegedly killed their wives.

All right.

But Dr.

Jeffrey McDonald is the one who Fatal Vision is about, and who is also the one who the Errol Morris new novel that's basically

refuting Fatal Vision is about.

Wait, so refuting saying that he did or didn't do it?

Fatal Vision was basically Joe McGinnis making friends with Jeffrey McDonald and then being like, here's how he did it.

And then when like in Errol Morris's book, which I just got a book on tape of,

they basically break down how it was just super mishandled.

And like it was just, they were trying to make money helter-skelter style.

Got it.

And it was, you know, the whole thing was kind of unfairly presented, I guess.

Okay.

But I have to listen to the whole thing before I

sure do love to talk about things I don't know.

No,

I'm like, you shouldn't listen.

Let's hear it now.

Let's just theorize.

Much like when I talked about scuba diving and I said that you have to have a partner because there's no way you can check your your things.

Well, of course, then everyone on Twitter is like, yes, you can check your things.

Who cares?

It's not like someone's going to be like under the water.

What if they did, though?

Karen said.

Like, that's, you didn't need to correct that.

You know what I mean?

I mean, here's the thing, though.

It's those little lies.

Yeah.

It's the same one as I said that my dad got chemotherapy three times a week.

And then I thought about it this morning.

I'm like, he got it once a week.

Then he got it for like, you know, eight,

I don't know, three weeks, three months or something like like that.

Um, but just as I talk, it's just all like blah, blah, blah.

But you say, I'm so confident about it, you know, like I

wouldn't,

no.

Um, uh, did you hear about the chick in Seattle?

And I'm sure you did because every single person in the world tweeted it at us.

But the girl who was running in the park in Seattle in Ballard, which is like a nice little community, who got attacked in the

in the bathroom, in the public bathroom in the park, which I'm terrified of those.

And she's, yes, she fucking fought him and said, not today, motherfucker.

And here's the gray area: is like, you don't want to say how badass she is because there's that's sending the message that you should always fight once, you know, that's it's just such a situational thing and like reading the situation.

So you don't want to be like, beat the shit out of the person attacking you because that could be the absolute wrong thing to do in that situation.

I say, in all of these scenarios, anything in life is a case-by-case situation.

Right.

And just because we're saying it out loud doesn't mean it's a rule of any kind.

No.

nobody needs to hear that in particular.

But

yeah, also if you, if you, I think in a situation like that, those bathrooms, it's like a secluded, she knows she's secluded in a park.

And then even more so in that bathroom, it's a man inside the woman's bathroom.

That's, there's nothing about this that can be turned around.

So go for it.

Yeah, that's true.

Go for it.

You know, you know, as a human being, when you are in real danger,

that's then just allow those instincts to take over.

I think I would say, yeah, I think it's all instinctual.

I don't think it's any thinking at that point.

Right.

Fuck, man.

And I like the idea that, like, I think, didn't she say she had taken a self-defense class?

And so that's what, where that came from?

It's just like, cause that's the thing they teach you, is you just start fucking yelling.

Well, the thing I really did like about it.

And I think what I took away from it is that at one point, you know, she was fighting him.

And at one point, she thought in her mind, this doesn't have to be a fair fight.

And so, you know, it wasn't like wrestling.

It was, then she said, I started clawing at his face.

Yes.

And I think that that, that to me kind of hit me because it was like,

this doesn't have to be civil.

This can be fucking out of control.

Yes.

If there is someone in the bathroom that came into the bathroom to harm you or touch you in any way that you don't want to happen, you go, the knee goes to the nuts,

the fingers go to the eyes, and you fucking go for it.

Animal style, like they serve it in and out.

You You fucking go for it.

Yeah, put some fucking Thousand Island on that

motherfucker.

Put that Thousand Island beat down.

You melt that cheese on top of that beatdown girl.

And you fucking put some sauteed onions and some fucking Thousand Island beat down.

It's called the Not Today Motherfucker Special.

And you give it, you serve it up for free.

Animal style.

Yeah.

100%.

Bone appetite, motherfucker.

We have to take a class so we can talk about actual, I want to do it really bad.

Let's do it.

yeah let's do it i think the reason that i hesitate if i'm going to be totally honest is because you know the suits that they make the people put on so that you can attack them or the ones that the dog attacks like to have the dog attack you yeah but i'm specifically talking about the ones where the guy has to stand there but there's like a grate in front of his face but everything else is pads i'm scared of that Of that character or putting that on?

It looks like a, it looks like an off-brand Michelin man.

That in and of itself is like horrifying.

I think it would like stop me in my tracks.

Maybe it would make you fight him more.

Maybe your instincts will kick in and you'll be like, well, I can do this.

Maybe I'm afraid that my animal instincts will kick in.

I'll pull that fucking grate out of the face and then in with the fingers and the eyes.

Yeah.

Then I get sued.

Maybe you should.

Hey.

You know what?

Why is this creepy guy teaching this class anyways?

Like, what's really his motive?

Now he has your address because you had to fill out a thing.

Now he has my credit card number?

And your address.

And he's going to Taco Del Taco every night on my dime.

Oh, you know.

That's bullshit.

A literal dime.

Who is this one?

Tuesday nights.

You can get so much stuff.

Oh, my God.

Oh, man.

I fucking hit that place so hard.

And Vince is out of town.

I went to.

Oh, my God.

Did you drive there?

Yeah.

You mean, mean, because it's down the street from me?

It's not, it's, it's not super close.

I would say it's super close.

I drove home and went there, but I did go out of my way to go to Carls Jr.

like the day before.

Nice.

It's that fucking when the dog's away, the

you know, the animals.

Yep.

I bet you're farting all over this apartment, too.

I was.

That's the fun of it.

And you clean all up and you put on one of your nicer house dresses.

Yeah.

You're like, welcome home.

Oh, look how normal I am.

Look, I made you a casserole.

You married a normal wife.

Way to go.

Totally normal.

Wiping like weird beans out of the corner of your mouth.

Thousand Island.

Anything else?

Those were all my mistakes.

That's it.

Bless me, Father, for I sinned.

How long has it been since your last episode of My Favorite Murder?

It's been,

I mean, it's probably been 10, a good 10 years since my mother.

Since you've been to confession?

Yeah.

I've always been creeped out by confession.

I do.

As a Jewish person, I'm like, fuck, no.

It's super weird.

And the fact that they introduced it to you when you're in third grade is the creepiest part because you, they explain it to you.

And for me, the type of person I was, which is hating to do anything I've never done before, I couldn't get anybody to explain it enough to me.

Yeah.

Plus, you have to memorize, you have to have the Our Father, the Hail Mary, and the act of contrition all memorized perfectly.

So if you're in there and it's your line, like you can't drop a line.

You're like, I just learned my ABCs.

Yes, I'm like fresh out

like adding and subtracting and now i'm like you have to recite an incantation to like just the shadow of a man's face behind it is the oldest looking inside those and who the fuck is he does he have your address in some way you know what i mean like why did he want my child's credit card why did he fucking who is he to say who was he to take my hard-earned credit in third grade yeah uh it's really crazily creepy what's cool about hebrew when you're like doing the prayers and stuff is that a they write it like phonetically so you can like just follow that and also they um you can just kind of make noise oh because the whole congregation singing it at once you can just kind of

you know it's pretty great that is good so i don't know do you how when's the last time you went to temple oh my

years and years and years oh no

do you ever have the holiday thing where you're like oh it's oh yeah we go we have holiday dinners we get together for holidays but and we'll say a couple of the prayers but we don't but you're going to take it into that temple, make it official.

No, right.

Very chill.

Right, right.

But I did have a bot mitzvah.

Did you stack that paper?

Kind of.

I was bought at mitzvah by a lesbian.

Nice moment.

Yeah.

Thanks, mom.

That's really, really

opposite Orange County of you.

Yeah, I like that.

They don't really do stuff like that down there.

No, yeah, it's pretty sweet.

Anyways.

It's surprising that you were a Jew in Orange County.

There weren't a lot of us.

We had temple and a church.

And we had had Sunday school.

I mean, we had Hebrew school and a Sunday school.

There was like Jesus posters all over the wall.

They were like, you have an hour and no more.

Yeah.

Get it out of the way.

Goodbye.

We don't support what you're doing.

Shalom.

Get the fuck out of here.

Hey, how about take a look at this New Testament?

That's where all the action is.

So, this is a podcast about true crime.

Who was, let's see, who went first at the last show?

The live show?

Stephen?

You did.

I went first.

Oh, you're right.

Okay.

Yeah.

So it's me.

Yeah.

What?

I'm just, everything's becoming a blur.

Why?

Wasn't that my way?

I just, if you had made me guess just now, it wouldn't be like a cute for the show thing.

I had absolutely not only no idea who went first or last, I couldn't remember if it was a live show or a pre-recorded in this room show.

I get it.

Like, I'm not there.

You You better.

I'm not there either.

I'm far away.

Okay.

And we are back from that intro.

What's interesting, this episode will be coming out the first day of the My Favorite Murder Live tour.

That's right.

So it's September 3rd.

We will be, as we're speaking, in Denver, Colorado at the Paramount Theater,

beginning our tour.

I mean, who'd have thunk it?

But like back then, episode 60, to be like, guess what?

Yeah.

Still happening.

And you'll be talking about it on an episode of a show you're not even doing yet that doesn't exist yet.

Don't even worry about it.

Just do the show.

Just keep going.

Just keep going.

So that's it.

There's actually a very exciting update for this episode.

Do you want to talk about it?

Yeah, we want to talk about the woman that we had mentioned in the beginning of the episode, the woman who bought off her attacker.

Her name is Kelly Heron.

She's a 36-year-old runner.

And as I said, she was attacked in a public restroom in Seattle on March 5th, 2017, by a registered sex offender hiding in a stall.

And she fought back.

And now she co-teaches self-defense workshops, especially for runners and workplace groups, in participation with Fighting Chance Seattle, the same instructors who taught the class that empowered her to fight back in her 2017 attack.

And she also co-founded Run Buddy, a safety app for joggers.

Like, what an incredible woman.

That's so cool.

If you're a jogger, please go download Run Buddy and support Kelly and all of her great work taking, you know, something horrible that happened in her life.

And from the second it started, I mean, to this day, I love her being like, not today, motherfucker.

And it's like, it feels to me like she's just continued that advocacy out into the world.

It's so, so cool.

I'm embarrassed to say I still have not taken a self-defense class with you or without you.

And it pops into my fucking head every couple months, you know?

I know.

I know.

We got to do it.

I mean, look, there's been some other stuff going on,

but this, it would be a really cool, fun thing because I think it's like a great opportunity.

Women like hanging out, learning something, it's constructive, it's empowering, but then also you're just like, it doesn't have to be like a sip and paint or a, you know what I mean?

There's things people are doing or just going to a bar or whatever.

It's like, do something that's like as kind of that fun of a group activity, but then also learn how to break someone's trachea if you need to.

Yeah.

I mean, I follow a lot of those Instagram accounts now, but that's not going to, watching it's not going to help me as much as doing it on a Michelin, a fake Michelin man

statue.

Still scary.

Yeah.

I feel like we should count up all the things we've said we were going to do on this show.

No, no, no.

Because there truly are probably 5,000.

Oh my God.

We just, it seems so flaky once we count the.

I think we already do.

We're just, we have really good intentions and we're like, we really love our future selves, and we want to do so much for her.

Yeah.

But our present selves love the couch.

Oh, the couch is a beautiful place to be.

We're, yeah, I agree.

We're ambitious and lazy.

Yeah.

And those great combinations.

It is.

All right.

We're doing fine.

Yeah.

We're doing our best.

So

let's get into Karen's story about, oh, this is a classic, the Axeman of New Orleans.

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Goodbye.

So, this,

interestingly enough, I got this murder from one of my last packs of true crime baseball cards that Steven gave us for Christmas.

I keep forgetting to

look at those.

Here's what I'm doing.

So,

my new thing because it's spring is I just keep cleaning out drawers in my house or like containers.

That's awesome.

Thank you.

It feels good.

I've also been wiping down walls, which is a really weird hypnotic thing to do.

Like with the magic eraser?

Yes.

Oh my God, I'm obsessed with those.

Exactly that because I didn't realize I had done look around in my house that much.

Yeah.

But there are walls.

She quoted, look around.

Open my eyeballs.

You're like, don't put your glasses on when you go in your in my own home in any real present way.

I get it.

Because I have two dogs and one is a short to the ground dog.

I didn't see that there are many walls in my house that look like the end of the Blair Witch where there's just a bunch of child hands, like dirty fingerprints that look like people are trying to climb in or out of the house.

Because he jumps up.

Yeah, like they jump.

And also the paint on the wall is old and it's really powdery and porous instead of the opposite.

I have that too and it feels like chalk.

Yes.

You need, I need semi-gloss.

Yes.

I will lose my mind.

Because with this other shit, you walk by and say the word dirt, and there's a smudge on your wall.

It is maddening.

So, anyway, I, but I looked, I realized how much I got used to it because I was like, that looks like a crime scene.

Like, it looks weird.

Yeah.

Like, like somebody tiny tried to pull their way along the wall.

But it's just Frank, like running out of one room and curbing and like his little feet go up on the wall to keep clonking into the wall.

Why am I talking about it?

Oh, because so

I cleaned.

So on top of those,

just me and my free tech.

Oh, wow.

Also cleaning out some drawers, found two more packets of the true crime, which I thought I was done with all of them.

So I got super excited, opened one up, found this murder.

Had never heard of it.

Oh, I think I'd heard of it, but just like didn't really know any details or any specifics.

Can we really quickly?

And I just thought of this for you.

Is that where you got the Pepan sisters from like two episodes ago?

Because I want to talk about the gift we got that the girl gave us at one of the live shows.

Oh, that's a good idea.

Should we just do it now?

Yeah, okay.

You guys remember the Papan sisters?

They clawed the eyeballs out of their fucking mistresses.

And this girl brought us a little packet, and there was a

little necklace in it that said, they're not marble.

They're not marbles.

Yes.

And there was a little locket that had the Papan sisters

photograph in.

And then there was like a handmade

like clay eyeball.

Yes.

And it was just like the most well thought out gift, I think.

Like these three little almost charms in a box that no one would get if you didn't know.

And then we like opening it up and looking at them.

Did we each get one or is that we had one and it's going up into the

we each got one.

Okay.

I can't believe that.

So she made two eyes, two charm, two lockets, two.

And I don't think I knew how to express to her like.

how in awe I was of it.

And she acted like, oh, you know, it's stupid.

And it's like, no.

You know, we were like, this is amazing.

We can't, we never never get to do that because we kind of feel that way.

I think people see us saying it a lot, but it really is true.

When somebody is like, here's this thing I know you really like.

Yeah.

And that's like, I didn't make it.

Yeah.

It's unbelievable.

It's amazing.

And it was, it's just a really good little eyeball, too, that's sitting there.

That's a good eyeball.

All right.

Crazy.

Sorry.

No.

So no problem.

It's weird that you asked that, though, because the Pepan sisters were in this deck.

Oh, my God.

Yes.

I almost, I should have done it.

I almost sent you a picture when I opened it.

And they were like the third people in.

I should have taken the picture and sent it on our constant text thread that me, Stephen, and Georgia are just never not on.

That's our life.

It's photos.

It's fucking quotes.

It's Stephen going, they've asked you seven times.

You have to answer.

Yeah.

Yes.

That's our life.

Anyhow, so I found this here.

And then in

my research, it exploded and flowered out into something else, which I just am kind of amazed by.

Okay.

Okay.

So here's how we start.

It's the Axe Man of New Orleans.

You know that one?

No.

Okay.

So he was a serial killer who struck in the city of New Orleans from May 1918 through October of 1919.

He

attacked, obviously, using an axe that he found in the home.

He didn't bring anything.

Which time he starts trying.

Okay, tell me.

Yes.

So

it's the turn of the century.

So a lot of people have axes laying around the outside of their house.

And a lot of the places where he attacked,

well, and here, he he sometimes did it with a straight razor, but mostly with an axe.

Oh, which one is worse?

Straight razor.

Straight razor is fast.

Yeah, I don't think you'd even feel it.

I think you'd be like, why is my neck cold in this one tiny?

That's what I don't want.

I want

to be clonked over the head and fucking out.

Okay.

Then you want an axe.

Oh, I guess.

Yeah.

And we're going to put you in an axe.

Yeah.

Jesus Christ.

I think that's what it is because straight razor, you would, but you'd bleed out so fast because it's just across the neck.

I don't know if you would.

I mean, you definitely have time to look around, panic.

Don't want that.

So, what's worse to me is a straight razor.

Okay.

You would just, you want to be out.

Yep.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

Okay.

So here's what happened.

This guy

would use the tools that he found in the home.

He would kill the whole family.

And he would hang out either before or after.

They can't, they couldn't figure out before or after, oftentimes eating.

So they could have invited him in.

Could have.

Usually the home is found locked when the police get there.

Oh my god.

And it's never robbed, even though most of the time the people have valuables out very pres very openly, whatever.

Never, ever any sign of robbery.

And oftentimes, mirrors and faces are covered with fabric.

Creepy?

Yes.

Okay, so

it starts on May 22nd, 1918.

So a grocer named Joseph Maggio

was sleeping alongside his wife, Catherine, at their home on the corner of Upper Line and Magnolia Streets for people that live in New Orleans.

So a guy breaks into their house, he cuts their throats with a straight razor, and upon leaving, he bashes their heads in with an axe.

Oh, man.

So he found both.

So you don't even need to choose.

That's right.

Here's where we take that off your plate.

I don't even need to ask that.

Don't even worry about it anymore.

Cut that out.

Because you are going to feel both quickly and then, but it's over anyway.

Catherine's throat was cut so deep that her head was nearly several.

That's bad.

And see, that's the thing is like in those mafia movies and stuff, when the guys get lean back and get at the barber to get shaved.

Yes.

And the barber has the straight razor.

And oft times,

if it's a movie, they'll cut their throat for a total reason.

But that like bond of trust that you would have to have with that man because they're doing that to you.

But I feel like a lot of times in movies I've seen the you know, the guy would lean back to get shaved, close his eyes, and then the and then the mafia guy would trade the places with the barber.

So the barber didn't do it, he was just a neighborhood dude.

He stepped out of his place.

He didn't, he didn't retain his duty as the barber.

I would have helped you to defend your life.

He has a family to worry about.

He took the oath.

Okay.

So

for a moment, I was like, what?

That's right.

The barber's oak.

The barber's oath.

I mean, there's probably.

Okay.

In the apartment, the police found the bloody clothes of the murderer.

So he changed into a clean set of clothes before he left, which is the like also reflects back to him just chilling out, like this, committing these terrible murders and then just hanging out.

So they didn't, investigators didn't do a complete search of the premises after the bodies were removed.

So later on, that bloody razor was found on a neighbor's lawn.

And that razor that was used to kill the couple belonged to Andrew Maggio, who's the brother of

Joseph, the grocer who was murdered in his bed.

And Andrew owned a barbershop.

They were brothers.

Weird.

They were brothers.

And those brothers are the people that found Joseph and his wife, Catherine, because they were like staying at home and not answering the phone or whatever, not doing what they were supposed to be doing.

And the three brothers went over there and found their bodies.

So

his employee, Andrew's employee, Esteban Torres, told the police that Maggio had removed the razor from his shop two days prior to the murder, explaining that he wanted to have a nick honed from the blade.

So the razor was out of the barber shop

and had

gotten to get fixed somewhere.

So

it's just out of the, it's in the mix now, I guess, is what is the point of that.

Maggio, who lived in the adjoining apartment to his brother's residence, discovered the gruesome scene two hours after the attacks occurred.

And he blamed his failure to hear any noise related to the attacks

in the early morning hours on his being drunk because he had returned home the night before from a celebration due to his departure to join the Navy.

Police, however, were surprised that he failed to hear the intruder as he did make a forced entry into the home.

So then Andrew Maggio, the brother of Joseph, became the police chief's prime suspect, but then he was released when investigators were convinced that his alibi held up.

He also told police that there was an unknown man seen lurking near the residence prior to the murders.

Yeah, right.

So then, so that was May 22nd.

About a month later, on June 27th, in the early morning hours, Louise Besumer and his, oh, Louis, sorry, Louis Bessume, let's say that because they're all French back there in New Orleans.

Yeah.

Louis Bessumé and his mistress, Harriet Lowe, were attacked in the quarters at the back of his grocery store.

This is grocery number two.

Uh-huh.

Bessumé was struck with a hatchet above his right temple, which resulted in a possible skull fracture.

And Harriet was hacked over the left ear and found unconscious when the police arrived.

They were discovered shortly after 7 a.m.

in the morning

by John Zenka, who was the bakery truck driver.

And he came to the grocery to make a delivery.

And then he found both Louis Bessame and his mistress, Harriet Lowe, in a puddle of their own blood.

And the axe, which had belonged to Bessame, was found in the bathroom of the apartment.

So Bessame, so they lived and they

he explained to the police that he'd been sleeping.

He was bashed up with a hatchet.

And then police arrest Louis Obakan, who's a 41-year-old African-American man who had been employed in Bessame's store weeks before the attacks.

But there was no evidence that proved that the man was guilty or even related to this.

But the police arrested him nonetheless, stating that

he had offered conflicting accounts of where he was the night of the murder, or the morning of the murder.

So then, shortly after that, Harriet Lowe stated that she remembered having been attacked by a light-skinned black man.

But her statement was discounted by the police because of her head injury and because she was the mistress, she was an upstanding wife.

Oh, man.

And robbery was said to be the explanation and what Obakan's motive was, except for nothing was removed from

the Besume, Besume's home.

So essentially, what ends up happening is,

oh no.

Can that be heard?

Did you hear it?

I think it'll be like the ghost train just kind of faintly.

There is a child screeching.

That was like a bone-chilling

scream, though.

Should I throw something off the balcony at them?

Those little fuckers?

Mrs.

Harriet Lowe then starts to become like sensationalized in the newspaper.

She can't stop talking to the press.

She's criticizing the police.

And then at one point.

And this is the mistress.

This is the mistress.

And they keep making a story about it because he basically got caught with his mistress and was still married.

And this is the story.

And this is the story.

Not the murderer.

Well, it was all just being constantly in the paper.

Right.

The Times Pickle Union sensationalized Lowe and her outspoken nature upon discovering that she was not the wife of Bessame, but a mistress.

A charity hospital source discovered the scandal when Bessame asked to be directed to the room of Mrs.

Harriet Lowe and was inevitably denied access as no woman by that name was a patient.

So it's like he's not a relative, he can't visit her.

Wow.

Then, then his legal wife arrived from

Cincinnati

a couple of days after the discovery, and then, which further inflamed the ongoing drama.

And she was pissed as fuck.

Besame was released,

and the two lead investigators get demoted for unacceptable police work.

Yes.

But then Besseme is arrested in August 1918

as Harriet Lowe, who is dying in a charity hospital after a failed heart surgery, states that it was Louis who attacked her

with the hatchet.

Louis being the brother.

No, no, no.

Louis Bessame is the grocer, is the guy that also got attacked.

Okay.

She basically is like, he did it, whatever.

All right.

But he was acquitted after 10 minutes.

There was no proof.

And it was, they knew she was just kind of this lunatic.

Yeah.

Whatever.

At least that's the story that I got.

Okay.

So then August 5th, 1918, a 28-year-old woman named Mrs.

Schneider, who was eight months pregnant, was attacked in the early evening of her

hours on her house in Elmira Street.

She awoke to find a dark figure standing over here and was bashed in the face repeatedly.

Her scalp was cut open.

Her face was completely covered in blood.

She was discovered after midnight by her husband, who had been returning from work.

And she was still alive.

And she claimed that she remembered nothing of the attack.

She gave birth to a healthy baby girl two days after the incident.

It was crazy.

She's us.

Nothing had been stolen from the home,

even though there was cash left out.

The windows and doors were not forced open.

And

they put together that she was attacked with a lamp on an on like a bedside table.

Don't fucking attack pregnant people.

I mean don't attack anyone but like this guy this guy really wants to attack everyone as you will come to find out.

Okay.

So

all right.

So then five days later on August 10th Joseph Romano who's an elderly man living with his two nieces

The two nieces hear him make a noise in his room in their house that they live in together.

And they go in and discover that their uncle had taken a serious blow to the head.

He has so two huge cuts in his head, and they see the guy fleeing the scene as they walk in, but they can't tell if he

is thin or fat.

They can't really say anything for sure.

They both have conflicting views.

And even though this old man was seriously injured, he could walk to the ambulance, but he still died two days later because of the severe head trauma.

Nothing was stolen.

They found a bloody axe in the backyard, and they discovered that a panel had been chiseled out of the back door.

And that's how he was getting into these houses.

He was like, just like going up to the back door and like, basically, just making a little, like, like prying it open, essentially, like, chiseling a spot open and then going in and unlocking it.

I think someone would hear that.

Yeah, but it's there all asleep.

Luckily, you whisper that.

Tip, tip, tip, tap, tip, tap.

I still think you would have heard that.

I mean, you would hope, hope.

You would hope that

these guys didn't.

So then at this point, a man named John D'Antonio, who was a retired Italian detective, started making public statements in which he hypothesized about this man who had committed these ax-man murders.

And he described the potential killer as an individual of dual personalities who killed without motive.

And he said that it could very likely be a normal law-abiding citizen who would be who was often overcome by an overwhelming desire to to kill.

And he later went on to describe the killer as a real Dr.

Jekyll and Mr.

Holland.

I just can't even, yeah.

Okay, so then on March 10th,

1919, so about six months later, eight months later, Charles Court Miglia,

an immigrant who lived with his wife and baby on the corner of Jefferson and 2nd Street in Gretnell, Louisiana, which is a suburb of New Orleans.

There's screams coming from their house.

And so grocer Orlando Giordano rushes across the street to investigate.

And he sees that

Charles Cordomiglia, his wife Rosie, and their infant daughter had all been attacked by the unknown intruder.

Rosie stood in the doorway with a head wound, clutching her deceased daughter.

So this axe-wielding motherfucker just goes in and kills everybody, no matter their age.

I guess it sounds like you have to be a grocer of some kind that qualifies you or Italian, but just kills everybody in the room, like in the apartment or in the room.

What the fuck?

It's super crazy.

Okay.

And again, nothing, no, they weren't robbed.

It ain't about that.

Yeah.

Nothing stolen.

The back door was chiseled.

The bloody axe was found on the back porch.

He like does it and then just would leave it and walk away.

Oh my god, I can't wait to find out who this motherfucker is.

Okay.

So then

the police are sent a letter, or a letter gets published in the newspaper.

I don't know the order of how it got sent, but this is what it said.

It said it was postmarked from hell, March 13th, 1919.

It reads, Esteemed mortal, they have never caught me and they never will.

They have never seen me, for I am invisible, even as the ether that surrounds your earth.

I am not a human being, but a spirit and a demon from the hottest hell.

I am what you Orlinians and your foolish policemen call the axeman.

When I see fit, I shall come and claim other victims.

I alone know whom they shall be.

I shall leave no clue except my bloody axe, besmeared with blood and brains of he whom I have sent below to keep me company.

If you wish, you may tell the police to be careful, not to rile me.

Of course, I am a reasonable spirit.

I take no offense at the way they have conducted their investigations in the past.

In fact, they have been so utterly stupid as to not only amuse me, but his satanic majesty, Francis Joseph but tell them to beware let them not try to discover what I am for it were better that they were never born than to incur the wrath of the axeman I don't think there is any need of such warning for I feel the police will always always dodge me as they have in the past they are wise and know how to keep all away from harm undoubtedly you Orleanians think of me as the most horrible murderer which I am but I could be much worse if I wanted to if I wished I could pay a visit to your city every night at will, I could slay thousands of your best citizens, for I am in close relationship with the angel of death.

Now, to be exact, at 1215 earthly time on next Tuesday night, I'm going to pass over New Orleans.

In my infinite mercy, I'm going to make a little proposition to you people.

Here it is.

I am very fond of jazz music, and I swear by all the devils in the nether regions that every person shall be spared in whom a jazz band is in full swing at the time I have just mentioned.

If everyone has a jazz band going, well then so much the better for you people.

One thing is certain, and that is that some of your people who do not jazz it on Tuesday night,

if there be any, will get the axe.

Well, as I am cold and crave the warmth of my native

Tartarus and it is about time I leave your earthly home, I will cease my discourse, hoping though we'll publish this, that it may go well with the I have been, am, and will be the worst spirit that ever existed, either in fact or realm of fancy, the Axe Man.

Jesus, he's chatty.

Oh my God.

So it reminds me of Richard Ramirez's big speech in court where he's just like, I am the, where it's that thing of like,

you know,

he's not just a man anymore.

He's like become a god and all that kind of psychotic stuff.

Yes, very psychotic.

But also very biblical.

Oh, yeah.

But also the, yeah.

And the whole thing, the whole time I was like, like, well, the more you talk, the more, the more you write and the more information you give, you're just giving away more clues.

So shut the fuck up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But doesn't it seem like he has a bit of a like, because isn't that essentially the story of Passover?

Oh, yeah.

You'll pass over.

You'll pass over the house if they have jazz music, please.

That's exactly it.

Isn't that why you guys have so much fun on Passover?

We have the best time.

No, I was like, this is written by a fucking, a record label exec who's like, wants his jazz music to be playing.

Plain?

Who do not jazz it on Tuesday night?

That's our new like Tuesday night club at whatever bar.

We got to jazz it.

Jazz it.

And nobody likes jazz.

So everyone's like a little unhappy.

Yeah, but it's like, well, we'll kill you if you

got it.

We just got to do it.

Let's get through these next 15 minutes.

Well, apparently, so everyone jazzed it on that Tuesday night and no one was killed.

Shut up.

Yeah, it actually worked.

Excuse me.

But then, of course, as it always, as it always does.

It always but thens.

There's so many but then

August 10th, Steve Boca, a grocer, is attacked in his bedroom as he sleeps.

Wait, is he really purposely getting grocers?

Well, yes, because they all are

what a bummer.

I mean, selling your business.

It's so specific, but it's,

they say grocer here, but I also think it means people who keep stores.

So it's like sometimes it's a guy that has like a grocery store and a bar type of place.

It's a gracious or some kind of thing.

Yeah.

It doesn't necessarily mean like the big thing of lettuce that's on the the sidewalk, per se.

The green grocer, they used to call them.

Right.

The green grocer.

But there it is people that own stores.

Weird.

Super fucking weird.

Okay.

So then he

wakes in the night, finds a dark figure looming over him.

When he regains consciousness, he runs into the street,

finds that his head has been cracked open.

How have you found that?

I found my head to be cracked open.

You know what?

I need help here.

So he goes to his neighbor's house,

collapses.

Then the neighbor calls the police.

Nothing's taken from the home.

A panel on the back door had been chiseled away.

Boca recovered from his injuries, but he had, again, no memory.

And that's every single person that survives knows nothing about what happened.

Yeah.

Head injuries.

September 13th, it happens again.

Sarah Lawman was attacked on the night of September 13th.

Her neighbors came to check on her because she lived alone

and they hadn't seen her in a while.

They broke into her house when she didn't answer and discovered the 19-year-old lying unconscious on her bed, suffering from a severe head injury, missing several teeth.

Oh, this guy goes straight for the fucking right to the face.

Yeah, they say that all of the injuries were neck, head, and only a couple had on their defensive wounds on their arms.

Most of them, he would just get in there and chop very precisely.

Weird.

And sometimes he would obliterate the face of the man.

And sometimes he would rape the Bible.

All right.

Oh.

But here, so

bloody axe is discovered on the front lawn.

She recovered from her injuries.

Couldn't October 27th.

Mike Pepitone

is attacked.

Did you ask Eddie Pepitone if I had to?

I put in a call.

He won't talk to me.

That would be amazing.

I've never heard that last name before anywhere.

I know.

So he sees

his wife is awakened by a noise and walks into uh the bedroom, walks to the bedroom door just as a large axe-wielding man is fleeing the scene.

Oh, my god, Mike had been struck in the head, was covered in his own blood, blood spreader covered the majority of the room.

Um,

but but Mrs.

Pepitone is unable to explain any of the killers, describe the killer in any way.

I did read something that said Mrs.

Pepiton, Mrs.

Pepitone went on to shoot the man she believed

was standing there.

So this is a different story than the end of this one, which is basically she didn't know and she had nothing to explain to say to the cops.

There's another story that said Mrs.

Pepitone knew who it was.

And after

her husband,

like a couple of weeks after the murder,

she shot the man in the street and then the murder stopped happening.

That's right now.

Who knows?

And then she herself was convicted of murder and was in jail for 10 years.

What the shit?

Who knows about any of that?

So, okay.

So, that's the, those are, that's the full realm of the, um, of the X-Man of New Orleans murders.

Okay.

But then I watched a documentary on the YouTube that was actually very good, although it seemed very like kind of homemade, self-produced.

The guy that was narrating it, I don't think his British accent was his original accent of life.

It had a little bit of this feel to it.

It was, what's the word when you try too hard?

You're an actor?

Yep.

It was had a real actor feel.

Effect.

Affected?

Affected.

Yeah.

Okay.

But it's really good, good information.

I could be totally wrong about the accent.

Also, it doesn't mean it's not real.

Good.

That's right.

But here's the thing.

Every once in a while, it's like a 50-minute documentary.

And every once in a while, when he's talking about a different fact, there'll just be like a sound effect of screaming so it's just like almost like haunted house style like our podcast is with the children screaming outside i guess it is effective um

so it's not you know

it's affecting it's affected okay this documentary basically theorizes that the axeman of new orleans actually was killing for long before the New Orleans attacks and after

and he so they just start saying, because from 1879 to 1922 in America, there were lots and lots of axe murderers where a guy broke into the house by chiseling the back door

in the middle of the night, killing an entire family, not robbing them, using their own axe to do it with, eating before or after, hanging out in the house.

Usually a farmer, usually it's like a whole family and it's kind of out in the middle of nowhere where it takes a couple of days.

Rural.

Brutal as fuck.

No, rural.

Rural.

Rural, brutal, rural.

The brutal, rural.

Yeah.

Okay, so, and this is just, so the guys are basically saying these aren't, this is so long ago, and this is like pre any of the like perceived, you know, police procedural knowledge that we have now.

There, there also could be more, and people just haven't connected the fact.

But, okay,

so

in 1879, an elderly couple, couple

This is somewhere in Georgia.

It's a rainy night.

They're attacked, almost decapitated.

And when the police investigate the crime scene, they find that someone had been hiding in an upstairs room for a minimum of two days because there were smoke cigarettes and human feces

in there.

So someone had snuck into their house, hung out, and then waited

for the night to do it.

I always want to live in a small house.

I don't want there to be rooms that just don't get looked into.

Yeah, no attics.

No.

You could also, you could also like release, you know, I don't know, some kind of super dangerous animal every night just to take a run around the house.

Cool.

Yeah.

I was going to say cobra, but that would be too scary.

How about a Siamese, a cross-eyed Siamese cabin?

Yeah, he's very intimidating.

So this is, it was their axe.

The axe was left in the fireplace.

There was no robbery, even though there was a stash of silver on like the kitchen counter.

Five years later, in 1884 in Austin, Texas, a woman named Molly Smith is

attacked in her bed with an axe.

And then the attacker pulls her outside into the backyard, rapes her, and murders her outside.

Weird.

Several months later, Eliza Shelley is also murdered with an axe.

Her head is split open.

And on that one, the police noted that none of the dogs in the neighborhood barked.

And there were dogs that were tied up right next door.

And they didn't bark or have a reaction of any kind the entire night.

So it was a silent night on both of those nights.

Weird.

And that freaked the police out really bad because it's like, usually, you'll just get a little something.

People always, that, that note always freaks me out because it's clearly someone that the dogs know.

Yes.

And that's been doing, kind of doing their groundwork.

Yeah.

So like make sure the dogs are like, he's going to throw them food or something.

Yeah.

He's, he's

so four more people are killed in this same way, slaughtered in their beds with their own axe.

No robbery,

the weapons left in the house.

Until Christmas Eve of 1885, a couple is attacked and

the bloodhound could couldn't get a scent.

Like they gave the bloodhound a thing to smell that was from the axe left behind and they couldn't get a scent.

And they were like like the best bloodhounds around, or whatever.

So, again, it was that thing where the cops were like, Maybe this is a demon, like, whatever.

Or, I guess, this was before, so they would be like, Huh, maybe some demon's going to write us a letter in 15 years.

Right.

Um,

oh, also, here in like a couple other places, they found bare footprints in the blood.

Weird.

In 1897, this is 12 years later now, up in Paradise Ridge, Tennessee, the Aid family,

a neighbor sees the aid family farmhouse on fire and so he uh goes over to see what's happening and not only is their house on fire but their barn and a couple of other um buildings on their ranch and when they put the fire out they find the entire family has been murdered with an axe um the parents uh

the their daughter who was in her 20s, a son who was 13, and a neighbor girl who was 10.

I don't think that's him.

What's that?

I don't think it's him.

That one.

The killer ate either before or after the killing.

He hung out in the house.

And the neighbor girl, they think the way they traced it, she got away and he caught her, killed her, and threw her back into the burning.

Oh, my God.

14 years after that,

in

I cannot see what that says.

Something, Oregon, near Portland.

It's near Portland.

The Hill family is murdered in their house.

The children are murdered in their beds.

It's everything is exactly the same.

So it's just basically they've pulled all these crimes where like an entire family, no robbery, axe, head wounds, all of it.

A month after that,

in Rainier, Washington, Archie Cobble and his wife are murdered in their bed with an axe.

In 1911, in Colorado Springs,

a man walks into the home of Alice Bunchen, I think it says,

and murdered her and her six-year-old daughter and her three-year-old son.

And when her sister went to visit, she found the bodies.

She ran outside and screamed for help.

And everybody in the neighborhood came running except the family that lived next door, the Wayne family.

And so they went to check on them.

And the wife, husband, and one-year-old baby had all been slaughtered in their beds.

And then the beds were made up after them, like the

killer had killed them and then tucked them back in.

Oh, that's horrifying.

So it looked like they were sleeping.

Both of those cases, no robbery.

Both houses were locked from the inside.

13 days after that, in Monmouth, Illinois, the First Presbyterian

church is not open for the service on Sunday.

So everybody calls the caretaker who doesn't answer.

They go to the caretaker's house.

And

he,

sorry, Mr.

Danson is the caretaker.

He, his wife, and their teen daughter are murdered in their beds.

There's no robbery.

Two weeks later, in Ellsmouth, Kansas, Ellsworth, Kansas,

the Sherman family hasn't been seen for a while.

A neighbor that's worried about them because they weren't answering their phone goes to visit all five of the Shermans who have been murdered with an axe in their house.

The police found the axe, and the phone was wrapped with a

piece of someone's clothing was wrapped around the phone.

And

the police later realized that it was probably because the neighbor was calling over and over.

And so he wrapped that so he wouldn't have to hear the phone.

Just silence it.

Yeah.

Creepy.

Yes.

Two weeks later in Mount Pleasant, Iowa,

Mr.

J.B.

Jordan leaves for work.

He doesn't lock the kitchen door.

Their eldest son is upstairs.

He hears his mother scream.

He runs downstairs and finds that she's been attacked in her bed with an axe.

She has an injury to her head, but she survives, but remembers nothing.

Nothing is, they're not robbed, and nobody sees anything.

Eight months later, in Payola, Kansas, a young couple in their early 20s, the Hudsons, hadn't been seen.

Neighbors checked.

They're murdered in their bed.

And that night,

A family in the same town wakes to the sound of a lamp crashing to the floor.

And

the father goes downstairs to see what it is, and he sees a man leaving their house.

Oh my God.

Less than a week later,

and I think I'm pronouncing this right, in Valesca, Iowa.

It's the Valesca axe murderers.

Remember,

there was somebody that brought us a bag of stuff from the Valesca.

Yeah.

I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right.

Do you know, Steve?

Valesca.

Okay.

So, this is the most, this is one of the the most famous axe murder cases, but I didn't realize that they're, the theory is basically this is one guy because this, the Valesca axe murder house, so it's the Moore family.

Was it like the murders from the Trim and Capote?

Similar.

Okay.

Yeah.

Where

they just killed that family for no reason.

But this is,

it's their whole family.

They'd gotten back from church and then nobody saw them for days, but they did see smoke coming out of the chimney,

but they just didn't see them out on their farm doing their chores.

So the neighbors were just like, what's that's weird?

So after three days, they go check.

The entire family has been murdered with axes in their beds, plus two little girls who were there for a sleepover that were neighbor girls.

So eight people were murdered in this house with axes.

And he, they found that the man

had been hiding.

Every mirror in the house was covered with a piece of clothing.

Nothing had been stolen.

The killer

definitely spent at least two days there.

Lots of, like, had made food, left a bunch of stuff out.

And he, they found proof, again, that he had waited in the attic for two days until nighttime so he could come out and surprise them and murder them.

And then in 1914,

in Blue Island, Illinois, a family is found.

This is two years later, a family is found murdered murdered in their bed.

And then that brings us up to then 1918 in New Orleans.

And then four years later in Germany.

So then in the 1919 murder, Christmas Eve was the last one.

Right.

The Peppettowns.

Where the chicks shot at him.

Right.

Supposed to shot and killed somebody.

And then the murders ended.

Right.

But in Germany.

There was a farmer who saw a set of footprints

in the snow leading to his house, but not away.

This is the craviest story.

He searches his whole house, top to bottom, doesn't find anything.

Goes to bed that night, either that night or the next night, and then he's murdered.

He and his family are murdered, and it's the exact same thing.

And that guy hides in their house, I think, right?

Yes.

He's he's hidden in their house, but they, he, they couldn't find where.

Um,

all of the bodies in this were covered uh with sheets, or um, some of them are out in the barn, so they were covered in piles of hay.

They, uh, he stayed through the weekend, and there was no robbery, so it was exactly the same MO as all of these other ones.

So, basically, so it's just saying it could be this German immigrant because on

and the Voleska axe murder house, there was a note written in German under the table that was left behind.

And there was another, uh, one of the women that survived in the earlier ones heard him speaking in German.

So there was a theory that he was a German

immigrant who kind of did this for, you know, what it seems like over 20, maybe 30 years, then takes a boat back to Germany.

He's going to chill out.

And then four years later, he can't wait anymore and he does it again.

Or has been doing it and they just never got.

Yes.

I just wonder if in town there was anyone who had like been away, if they had known to ask that.

You mean in Germany?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's we, it's super crazy.

It's so extreme.

So then this is the best part, but I don't,

I don't get how it connects.

It connects in this documentary perfectly because the guy is going like

in 1994, but it's super awesome anyway, even if it's not real.

But so basically, a guy, they're, they're, they have an old

Navy ship that they're basically parting out because it's like done for it's retired or whatever they call that.

And so, this guy, it was his job to go through this Navy ship before they take it all apart and take pictures and record and basically do a report on what the status of the ship was and give

inventory so they know what should be saved.

Creepy to begin with.

Can you imagine being alone in a fucking Navy ship?

Why alone?

And also,

there was some extra things where I was like, hmm, we're gilding a lily here, where it was like,

because he, you know, the whole ship was off, so he had a flashlight, but then he turned the flashlight off.

And it was said that she haunted his car.

I mean, yeah, his camera, yeah.

But even still,

when he turned all the pictures in, and it was hundreds and hundreds of pictures, he got a frantic call back from like headquarters or whatever.

And they were like, who's the old man with the axe in that picture?

Oh my God.

So then they send him the picture.

Oh my God.

Are you going to show me?

Yeah, right.

Shut the fuck up.

It's real.

oh my god i'm gonna cry i'm gonna cry i'm gonna cry let me see here

show steven i dropped the phone

that is no i'm gonna shy oh my god

don't like that

that's the creepiest scariest thing i've ever seen in my life chills

chills right what can people what do people like look up um

x-man navy

that's exactly what i put in my man axe oh and look I don't want it.

Here's a close-up.

I don't want it.

For everybody else, we'll post this, but it's basically.

You know, when you do, you see like a ghost, a ghost investigator show, and they do a thing where they'll circle something in a picture, and you're like, I have no idea what you're talking about.

This is clearly a man on this ship with an axe in his hand.

The close-up is less

convincing to me, honestly.

Like, it looks like the guy's wearing a mask of like that commercial with the

old man mask.

But the six flags guy dances around that guy but far away and that's definitely an axe but far away and like yeah that's it looks like something you wouldn't notice until you saw the photo kind of a thing well also i love the idea

too close i love the idea of um

This old guy is so good at like evading the police and getting away with stuff that he knows to like, oh, I'm just going to go live on this old ship that they haven't parted out yet.

Totally.

Like that idea does link together well for me.

And then they, at the end of this documentary, I, I highly recommend.

And again, you just go put in the axe man of New Orleans, it'll come up.

It's the only one that's like 50 minutes long.

But they, they start listing all of the other unrelated, unsolved, but full family axe murders where there was no robbery.

And like basically all of those qualifiers that I kept repeating.

And there were probably like eight of them additionally that were just just in random cities.

And I, what I would love to do, and I'm sure somebody has, because they said somewhere it said they were all near railroad tracks.

So this guy could have just been hopping on a train and just going, because he really does clearly is just a drifter that's going from place to place.

And what a perfect way to be a murderer.

You do it, jump on a train, you are never there.

I'm wondering if there's some like, you know, a German fairy tale that has to do with like all the weird shit that was in in that letter.

Yeah.

You know, like he mentioned specific places that I'd never heard of, like in regards to hell.

So I wonder if like there's some connection there.

Yeah.

I wonder if they've done any kind of like the studying Jack the Ripper style stuff.

Yeah, about it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I had no idea it was this.

Like, I found that to be so fascinating because

it is one of those things like the Valeska axe murder house and that whole, it's so crazy that it is a standalone murder story.

Yeah, but it could possibly be connected to this other,

like I just a crazy serial killer.

That if, if it is this guy, he killed 61 people of the cases they know of.

Yeah, as a standalone murder, it's like, well, it's someone they knew or that had a beef with someone or that, you know, they were partners with in business and so they wanted it to themselves.

But if it's not, then that's even then that makes almost more sense.

Yeah.

It's just the house by the railroad tracks where he felt like jumping off off in the first place.

Needed food, clothes.

That's kind of interesting.

Terrorists.

There's plenty more other people know.

That photo is fucking horrifying.

Get ready to enjoy it.

All right.

People of

New Orleans.

People of New Orleans.

Okay, we're back.

Karen, do you have any updates?

No updates, but there are some interesting theories about this case and the identity of the Axeman.

A New Orleans historian named Bond Ruggles thinks that the axeman was not a man, but believes it was a woman who outsmarted everyone.

And her theory points to the survivors who were struck repeatedly but left alive.

And Ruggles says if a man had done it, they'd be dead.

And then she also cites the small entry points that were cut into the doors that the killer came through.

And in another twist, she suggests that Mike Pepetone's widow, one of the victim's widows, and the man she shot were in on these murders together and that they were lovers and that she framed him basically to inherit everything.

Wow.

I also have a theory, which I bring up anytime I have the opportunity to, which is based on the book, The Man on the Train, my favorite true crime book.

And what's crazy is there's already theories, and I mentioned it in the episode, that one of the theories is it might have been a drifter or an immigrant, which is a weird racist thing from the past where it's like it was a drifter, a fully American drifter traveling by train between towns.

And the man on the train, please read the book if you haven't, but like it fits perfectly into the timeline, the MO, all the different things of the man on the train.

I know you love that one and it's so fascinating.

Yeah.

Just like that idea.

that there's one guy doing all these horrible things and that it can be traced together.

I mean, it's just, it's so crazy.

The idea also of just an axe murderer

going unfound, the case going unsolved, like you would think, I mean, I don't know.

I mean, how many, yeah, how many serial murderers and how many people, like, it's just so easy to disappear back then up until like pretty recently.

Yeah.

Just, yeah, you know, it's a scary thought.

Jump on a train dragging your bloody axe behind you.

You'll be fine.

It's insane.

All right.

So let's now get into George's story from this episode.

It's about William Bradford Bishop.

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We're talking about the lights being depressing.

Randomly.

We had a pause.

Yeah.

We have to have a human break.

And I made Steven turn the kitchen lights on because it's dusk, which depresses the shit out of me.

Yeah, I was saying that it's,

you know, what gets me is I have a friend who has that same thing where he has a whole system of he has to go around that house and turn everything on like when the sun is beginning to go down.

It's not even like when it's down.

I have the opposite thing of when I get up in the morning, if there's a lamp on,

it's that thing of why are we even doing this feeling?

Where it's like no one turned the lights off last night or like no one's minding the shop feeling that makes me like a healing mad.

It never got shut down.

Yes.

I feel the same way about when I wake up and come out and the house is messy.

Yep.

What's funny about that?

I was talking about that, is when therapy the other day, we kind of paste it, like pieced it together that that might be why between like three o'clock and seven o'clock, I always want to go have a drink and like have a happy hour, like pick Vince up from work and we go have a drink.

And it's like, I want to make this part a celebration

because, but then after that, I'm fine.

Can I just put out a suggestion that you've probably already talked about?

Yeah, which is but three o'clock and a seven o'clock is the uh

um latch key time where you're home by yourself after school before anybody gets home from work.

That's exactly it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a rough time.

Yeah.

It's total latch key latch key shit.

Yeah.

That to me, that time is like three to seven is all about

watching TV.

I'm not interested in watching, but we won't not watch TV.

Like if there's nothing on, back in the time where there was times where there was nothing on, but we'd still just sit there and force ourselves to watch like

Star Trek.

Yes.

It was always reruns of Star Trek, which my sister and I didn't like, but we were like, like, well, there's nothing else on them.

That's on.

And now I'm like an expert because of that.

I've seen all of them 15 times.

Yeah, I've seen a fucking shit ton.

Next generation, oh, every episode I've seen.

It seems like everything in adult life is just ways of kind of trying to give the child at that time a little bit of a bottle.

Just shut the fuck up.

I mean, well, that's why I like drinking.

booze or anything it's like everybody has a thing but you're just kind of it's almost like you're trying to go back and be like somebody should have been here and given you this.

Oh, somebody should have, like, you know what I mean?

Somebody should have come and rubbed your back a little bit and made you actual food.

And that's my, that's a lot of my therapies.

Yeah.

Is that same source?

Yeah.

It's the shit that, like,

your fucking patterns that you keep repeating until adulthood in some weird way that I'm now trying to like, you're now doing your best to fucking break.

Yeah, but it feels fraudulent.

It doesn't.

It feels like everything's going to fall apart.

apart all the time.

Hanging by a string.

All the time.

And that's why we like podcasts.

Because that's truth.

That is true.

That's fucking preaching it truth.

Okay.

Speaking of, hey, Karen, are you ready for a family annihilator?

Yes.

Ready for William Bradford Bishop.

Ooh.

Okay.

Oh, Bill Bishop from down the street?

Billy Bish.

Bill Bish.

Brill Bad Bish.

Did I say that right?

No.

Bill Brad Bish.

Okay.

Anyways, on the morning of March 1st, 1976, in good old Bethesda, Maryland, William Bradford Bishop, who's a 39-year-old Yale graduate.

Oh my God, say that with more disdain in your voice.

Did I say it?

Yale graduate.

I didn't even do that on purpose.

College.

You think you're better than me?

Fucking college?

Fucking oh.

You're not better than me because you fucking went to school with Ivy on it.

Oh, you're a Yale

graduate.

And United States Foreign Service officer learns that he is not getting the promotion that he expected.

Uh-oh.

Uh-oh, red flag.

He tells his secretary he might be getting the flu and leaves work.

He withdraws $400 from his bank, drives to Sears, and buys a

gas can and a sledgehammer.

Uh-oh.

A sledgehammer or a ball peen hammer, which you've mentioned before, and I had no idea what it was.

Sledgehammers are big, and ball peen hammers are normal hammers.

Right.

I believe.

So I think you're right.

So I don't know how those could have been.

Anyways, he also buys a shovel and a pitchfork.

Then he heads home to his wife, mother, and three children.

Now, if you're working at that Sears, you're like, I think this guy might be starting his own hardware store

using our stuff.

Yeah.

Going home to garden?

How about he wants to just mark his name down?

Yeah.

Something.

Make a list.

Yeah.

Just follow him home and make sure that he doesn't.

Someone do something.

Annihilate.

The next day.

So the next, he does all that shit.

The next day, about

a six-hour drive from Bethesda and about five miles from Columbia, North Carolina, in a wooded, swampy forest area, a forest ranger is dispatched to an area where smoke is rising from the trees.

There he finds five burned bodies.

The burned bodies aren't identified for a week until a neighbor of the bishops calls the police, worried that he hadn't seen the family in a week.

When the police enter the Bradford home, they find a bloodbath with spattered blood on the floors and walls, and the children's room is covered ceiling to floor in blood.

And it's then that the shovel from the scene of the burning bodies is traced back to a hard work store in Bethesda, and the police make the connection.

You mean a Sears?

No, sorry.

Just kidding.

A Sears Roebucks and Company at the time.

We're going to be specific.

It is actually technically a Sears Roebuck in 1976.

You know what I'm saying?

I mean, yeah.

All right.

So police think that Bradford killed his wife, who was his high school sweetheart, Annette, first,

followed by his mother, Lobella, who was returning home from walking the family's golden retriever, Leo.

Spoiler alert, Leo's okay.

Oh, good.

Okay.

Mom and wife so far dead.

Very much dead.

Bludgeon.

Bad, bad, bad.

Beludgeon as fuck.

Then he kills his three boys.

15-year-old Brad, 10-year-old Brenton, and 5-year-old Jeffrey were killed while they slept in their beds in an upstairs bedroom.

All of them bludgeoned.

Here's a fucking horrifying part.

The detective says that in his 12 years as an officer,

it was the worst crime scene he had ever observed.

And he notes that there were hammer marks on the ceiling above the top bunk bed in one of the boys' bedrooms, which told how many times and how viciously Bishop had struck his son.

So in the like back and then blow, he fucking hits the ceiling.

Dude, yeah.

So a massive manhunt ensues for Bishop.

His the family station wagon that was used to transport the bodies to be burned

was found abandoned in a parking lot

hundreds of miles west from where the bodies were found.

And

Bishop's also identified by the clerk of a sporting goods store in Jacksonville, North Carolina, using his credit card to purchase Converse shoes the same day that the bodies were found.

Was he coming to Silver Lake?

I know.

I added that because I just thought it was so.

Oh, that detailed.

Yeah.

Like we were making the same joke.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, that's

some articles said tennis shoes, and I'm like, no, Converse.

That's like a specific thing because we all own them.

Yeah, that's right.

And also, it sounds like, because he was, did you say he was in the Navy or something?

He was

some kind of military guy.

So he's trying to play a different character, right?

Sure, he's blending in.

Hippie shit.

He's trying to bring his hippie shit to the West Coast.

Yeah, or be a skater.

You know what I mean?

And that man turned out to be...

Yeah.

Who's a skate?

I can't think of anyone because I don't know him.

Tony.

I was going to say Peralta.

Oh,

Stacey Peralta.

Shit.

There we go.

Steven.

I'm a poser.

I'm a poser.

Poser.

You're not posing to be a fucking skating guy.

I'm trying to make people think I skate.

Hey, bro.

Okay.

Commercial shoes.

Same day the bodies are found.

And it's also said that he had the dog on a leash with him.

So he didn't.

And when I first read this whole article, it was that the dog was killed too.

And I'm like, people are not going to fucking like that.

Right.

But the dog is on a leash and he seems to be okay.

After that sighting, the trail goes cold.

And since Bishop spoke six languages fluently, knew how to fly a plane.

and had lived throughout the world and possibly had fake IDs because of his work at the State Department, finding him didn't look good.

Law enforcement tried to get his psychotherapy records from his shrink, who Bishop had been seeing once or twice a week for five years, but the shrink refused saying, you know, doctor patient privilege.

But it's been said that the doctor was so shaken by Bishop's crime that he quit his practice, which is, can you imagine not spotting that for five fucking years or having spotted it and not done anything about it?

Like, that's horrible.

What's worse?

No, I think, yeah.

yeah not having done anything about it like thinking that you were wrong or doubting yourself yeah or something

or just being like am i but after five years

i feel like five years of um

you just have to be if you can manipulate a psychotherapist for five years

you're you're some fucking craziness yeah also if he was a military man i bet you he wasn't all that forthcoming isn't that isn't that kind of a personality trait of you're not really supposed to be that way in the military?

Well, it's funny that you say that because I read something that said that if you were in whatever rank he was in and you were going to psychotherapy, that was grounds for dismissal.

Oh, shit.

So on top of that, he probably wasn't, didn't also want to be like, yeah, and I want to murder my family.

So like it couldn't even get out that he was in there.

Whoa.

So that's so fucked up.

It's so fucked up.

Oh, so getting help for being in like a conflict-based business.

Right.

Where like you could have PTSD for whatever reason.

You're not, you cannot be in there.

Or you're traveling the fucking world and your family's home and there's, it's rough at home.

Or you have money issues.

It can't be like that anymore.

Or you got left at home between three and seven every goddamn day of the week.

Like you were just some sort of.

And you had no idea what time your parents were coming home and you were sick of peanut butter sandwiches.

You were eating so much toast that you felt sick.

I love toast.

God, we ate a lot of toast.

We ate so much toast.

So much.

Cheese toasted this day is one of my favorite things, but of course my brother would eat all the fucking cheese in the house, so it would be peanut butter toast.

We would do

my sister got really into making quesadillas, but she wouldn't make me one.

That was, you know, anything she could pull away, anything she could hold over me.

Quesadilla at that point was a tortilla with a slice of American cheese in the microwave for a minute.

Yes.

And then she crunched it close.

Yeah.

She would get fancy and put it in a pan.

Oh, she's like, she's fucking

fucking Julia Child.

She thought she was going for it.

And I was like, clear the area.

I'm trying to butter some crackers.

Like, basically, all you're trying to do is.

I love it.

Stacking up buttered crackers and then drinking seven up.

And it's just basically a whole one in your mouth.

I have so many feelings

right now.

All right.

So on March 19th, 1976, a grand jury indicts Bishop on five counts of first-degree murder.

But to this day, Karen, Bishop has never been found.

Whoa.

Yep.

So there's this photo of him from when he was young that they all show and he he looks a little bit like Lee Harvey Oswald meets John Belushi.

If you can picture that, it's weird.

Like you're kind of like, he's kind of hot, but then he has this weird, like smug, like tight, closed smile that looks creepy since you know what he did.

And then they made a one of those busts of him of like what he would look like if he were older.

And it's super creepy as well.

And he, I'm sure that he's Hugh Hefner.

Like it's Hugh Hefner.

It's so, it's Hugh Buckenhafner.

Is the bust?

That's exactly.

Can you pull that up?

It's a William Bradford Bishop bust.

It's just a cover of Playboy magazine.

Stephen, no.

Not Hugh Hefner's picture.

Let me just pull that up.

All right.

So there have been three credible sightings of Bishop.

One was in July 1978.

A Swedish woman who had worked with Bishop before the murders said she spotted him.

Stephen's got it.

Right?

Am I right?

I mean.

Oh, no.

Let me see.

It's so.

It looks like

is it Frank Langella?

No.

He's the guy that always plays like a.

He's just like, hey, kid, hilarious.

Hugh Hefner, right?

Yes.

He's exactly like Hugh Hefner.

He's missing like the bathrobe.

Yeah.

And that's it.

Yeah.

He's like, if Hugh Hefner had a trucker brother.

Yeah.

That's what that guy looks like.

Creepy.

Okay.

July 1978, Swedish woman who had worked with him prior to the murders.

She said she spotted him twice in a public park in Stockholm, Sweden, in a span of a week.

And she stated that she was absolutely certain that it was Bishop.

Then, and this is interesting because it's all people who knew him, you know.

So in July 1979,

he was reported to have been seen by a former U.S.

State Department colleague in a restroom in Sorrent, Italy.

The colleague greeted him,

who had, who said, and he said he was bearded.

He had personally believed to be Bishop eye to eye.

And he asked the man impulsively, hey, you're Brad Bishop, aren't you?

The man panicked suddenly, responding in a distinctly American accent, saying, Oh, God, no.

And then he ran swiftly out of the restroom and fled.

But he started shaking and panicking when he asked him.

This is all like kind of confirmed that these could actually be sightings.

It wasn't just like rando stuff, like hokey bullshit.

On September 19th,

it was a little, it was kind of cool.

I mean, yeah, it wasn't Unsolved Mysteries, but it was, you know, all right, on September 19th, I'm sure this was on Unsolved Mysteries too.

On September 19th, 1994, in Basel, Switzerland, a neighbor who had known a bishop and his family in Bethesda reports that she had seen Bishop from a few feet away while on vacation.

The neighbor described Bishop as well-groomed.

So, all people who knew him well enough to like recognize him.

Then, and I thought this was so exciting, a John Doe who was struck by a car while walking down a highway in 1981,

who was a person who appeared to be homeless, ended up getting exhumed after a local resident thought that the bust of Bishop looked like this dough.

And I fucking lost my mind.

It looks so much like him that you are sure it's him and it's fucking not.

But I think they fucked up the DNA test because it's fucking him.

Wow.

There's also, of course, been talk of Bishop being a victim of the MK Ultra mind control experience by the CIA that went awry, causing him to kill his family, which is like, okay.

Is that the right time frame?

The 60s, 70s?

Yeah.

I guess so.

Yeah.

I feel like they dosed a lot of people on acid back then.

Right?

I think so.

But

that's so close to the 80s.

I feel like it was shut down by then.

But I mean, look, if people theorize that it's because

it wasn't, and also it was a secret

government thing.

It's probably still going on.

It's to this day.

Yeah.

Stephen is an MK Ultra something.

I knew it.

That's what it is.

That's totally what it is.

You're like, and his mustache is a fucking recording device it's like

no because no matter how much we make fun of it he won't shave it so up in there

he fucking sets the two hugest microphones up every time but his mustache is the recording device

these are all fake you got me you can hear the shit we say when it's not recording and the shit we actually make him edit out that's the like we are russian operative spies

it's true oh well i do love them kaeldra is if if you know somebody was asking if something could get solved right?

Somebody was asking us that the other day, like conversationally.

And I've, it's always like, we always say, like, John Bonet or blah, blah, blah, whatever.

But then just thinking about that, like, I would love the real deal report on MKL.

The list of things that have happened because of it.

Yeah.

That's a good one.

Like, the real, you know, there was like the one guy that they, the family is like, there's no way he would have committed suicide.

And it was like he jumped out of a window.

Right.

And there was, I mean, there's a million of those.

Yeah.

And they're always like, those, that would be good.

Yeah.

It's so fascinating.

It's also like, it's an, it's easy, though.

You know what I mean?

Like, it's one of those things where it's like, oh, she was a runaway.

It's like, no, it's much more complicated.

It's much more simple than that.

Or something.

Yeah.

Or that's simple.

Okay.

Anyways, blah, blah, blah.

I think it's more likely that he was depressed.

He was also having financial trouble and that he was a fucking dick.

If he were still alive today, he would be 80 years old.

Oh, so he could still be alive.

Yeah.

So everyone, go find Hugh Hefner's creepy brother.

So, God, that's interesting to be guilty of a crime and run to Stockholm, Sweden, and still run into someone that you know.

Oh, because, like, how annoying is that?

Right.

And because he was in the military, he probably went to military-ish places, right?

Like

places he knew from having gone there before from for his job.

You think he wouldn't, though, because

then people would recognize him there.

Yeah.

Of all the places you would have to list, okay, this guy ran.

Where'd he go?

He'd went to LA.

He went to California.

People go always go west.

Instead, he went east and then he went to a place where, like, Stockholm, Sweden is just like nobody really

he would just blend.

Yeah, there's a lot of places you could, and you know, it was the time when, like, you, you could, you didn't need a passport, or you know, your name didn't even have to be on the ticket.

And yeah, and he had a week start because they didn't, a week head, head start.

Yeah,

because you know, they didn't identify the bodies until then.

Yeah, he was all free and clear.

What a creep.

He fucking, he didn't just murder them and leave their bodies.

He murdered them, drove six hours away, dug a fucking shallow hole and put the gasoline that he had bought that day on the bodies and lit them.

His mom, his high school sweetheart, and his three children.

That's almost the same as John List.

It's so much like John List.

Except, and not to say my guy was better than your guy, but John List shot everybody in the back of the head.

Nobody saw, nobody knew anything was happening.

He just took him out from behind.

I think he might have as well.

If you're gonna back in,

well, no, I guess.

Yours has a good clue, I guess they both have good closures where it's like the money was in the ceiling the whole time.

I know, John Lists.

No, but this one I'm saying it's the murder is so much more personal and awful and like, you know, hammer marks ceiling type of shit.

He's not like trying to end it quick.

Yeah.

What the fuck?

But he waited till they were sleeping.

He didn't come home until they were asleep.

And then mom was on, his mom was on a walk with the dog that he, that she'd do every night.

It's just not.

You can't find a lot of details about how it happened either, which is like, there's no like, in this room, this happened while his wife was cooking or whatever the fuck.

Also,

what was he like just like if you were in the cafeteria at the same time?

Do you think he was like

clearly one of those like a closed fist of a person or do you think it was all like still rotten run deep and he was just like chill and nothing was going on.

There was not a single thing that I saw that was like, and you always see this.

Everyone said he was such a great guy, and everyone's like, so I don't think he was.

He could have been tightly wound.

Yeah, I don't think people weren't like, we were so surprised.

Right.

No one said that.

Yeah.

As far as I could tell.

Fuck.

Yeah.

So that is Family Annihilator, William Bradford Bishop.

Wow, Bill Bishop.

Yeah.

That's like.

I've never heard of that guy.

And it's truly awful.

Yeah.

Isn't that crazy?

Also, once you kill them, you're going to run anyway.

Why do you have to burn the bodies?

You got that head start.

But like, that's just one chore you don't have to do.

Like, you've, if you've killed your whole family, they're probably not going to get found for a week.

But I mean, like, either way, it's, it's not like you killed one member of your family and everyone else doesn't know what's happening or something.

It's like you've taken out an entire family unit.

People are going to catch on no matter what the state of their corpses is.

Yeah.

It's so fucked up.

I mean, it's too much.

It's pretty amazing that

they were able to

actually identify the bodies because if he hadn't left that shovel behind, they would have never gone, they would have never talked to Bethesda, Maryland, because they identified it as one of two hardware stores in Bethesda.

And it was hundreds of miles away, right?

You said it six hours away or something.

So if he hadn't kind of fucked up and left a shovel behind, they would have never been traced to each other.

Which was probably his eye.

Yeah, maybe.

It was probably his.

I don't think he wanted to get caught.

No, you don't burn bodies.

You specifically don't want to get caught if you burn bodies.

It's just he did everything the worst way possible.

He really did.

And he was never fucking found, and which is so disappointing.

Yeah, but he got that military edge.

He's he's like a

bourne-esque,

he's a Jason Bourne type.

Yeah, bad born.

Yeah, bad born.

And we're back.

Are there any updates for this case?

I do have some updates.

The authorities are still looking for William Bradford Bishop, which is wild.

In 2021, a North Carolina woman named Kathy Gilchrist made headlines when her 23andMe test led her to believe that Bishop was her biological father.

Can you even imagine?

Wow.

Kathy was born before Bishop's murdered children were born.

She was adopted as a baby and never knew her biological parents.

The FBI later confirmed that their DNA matched.

I mean,

like, so FBI agents have wondered if Bishop's hidden past could play into his motive for the murders, which remains elusive, and expressed hope that Kathy's discovery would renew interest in this case and drum up leads.

I mean,

that's the wildest kind of like futuristic twist for this, where

you're just trying to find out if you have cousins in the next town over.

Right.

And it's like, guess what?

Your father is a family annihilator.

Yeah.

That's a, oh, maybe I didn't want to know everything kind of moment, I would think.

But that kind of weird coincidence or whatever they're calling it in the press, if that's what it takes to renew interest and try to figure it out if they can find this guy, then great.

Definitely.

Now we're going to let you guys listen to the recurring theme that we were doing back in 2017 of Good Things of the Week.

Um, hey,

I found one positive thing that happened.

Hey,

let's get out of there.

What about

so?

We try to end this with

something positive because we don't want to end on a family annihilator.

A thing that makes us happy, a thing that we like.

Yeah.

A thing that we've noticed lately that's fun.

Yeah.

You just shook your head terrifyingly at me.

Mine is that because three o'clock to seven o'clock is so hard for

what the fuck?

I hate neighbors.

So that was creepy.

They just moved in, so they're like putting

shits up and shit.

We're podcasting.

We're podcasting.

Also, it just was so light.

It was really creepy.

They're trying to be quiet.

Okay.

So, oh, yeah.

Okay.

So from three to seven, so it's hard for me.

So the thing I've been doing this past week to try to like make it positive.

Did we scare the shit out of that?

Hi, little girl.

The thing I've been laying out at the pool in the sun, and it's been fucking phenomenal.

Oh, that's good.

Making me so happy and so like, I feel like I'm in paradise.

That's really good.

I wonder if you had maybe a little vitamin D deficiency and you need a little sunlight, a little,

what do they call it?

Weather depression or whatever.

Yeah, definitely.

And it's just this thing of like, okay, here's celebrating life in a different way than alcohol and charcuterie.

Yes.

Which, man, still sounds so much better, but whatever.

Well, Well, it's definitely faster.

But it's so relaxing when you're outside.

I've been actually sitting outside at my house too.

Nice.

It's just so relaxing.

And it's been mine.

Okay.

I guess mine will be, I walked my dogs in my neighbor, the neighborhood kind of near me, which is nice

last night.

And it was as if all the jasmine in the whole neighborhood bloomed at one time.

No.

It was crazy.

It's walking around a neighborhood and it smelled like the inside of a florist shop was one of the weirdest things of all time.

There's this moment in LA and it's such a quick moment where all the jasmine blooms and it only happens for like a very short time during the year and it's fucking fabulous.

It's crazy.

And when you

like I was coming home from something and from my from like the

lift to the front door,

the smell was so beautiful and strong.

I was like, I have to walk my dogs right now.

Like I need to be out in this air.

I love that.

It's very cool.

That's a good one.

And also I've been because I've been in my house doing nothing but like binge-watching TV and cleaning the walls and wiping down walls, the difference it makes when your walls are clean.

I just highly recommend it.

Don't think about it until someone else does it that you pay them to do it.

And you're like, oh.

But also, when you get one of those magic erasers, they really do work.

I know.

I love it.

What's it, a Mr.

Clean thing?

Yeah.

Or you can get a Target brand.

It's like a little bleach sponge.

It's a white sponge that when you touch it to things, it just makes marks and nicks and shitty looking things go away.

I I bet it's made of asbestos.

I hold it in my hand for like hours at a time.

Let it resolve.

All of this is leaching into my system.

You know what?

Maybe I'll clean it out a little bit.

I mean, the end days are going to come before you can die of asbestos poisoning, probably, right?

What if the magic eraser is the new green juice, and that's the way to detox?

Is just to magic erase both hands.

Yeah, every morning.

I'm just picturing that.

Okay, we're back.

I would love to go back to one of my 37-year-old Georgia and tell her to get the fuck out of the sun.

What is she doing?

Why, Georgia, no.

I'm just going to lay out for four hours and see if it helps me at any time.

Anyway, I don't put any lotion on because you want to get the rays in the body.

Georgia, stop it.

You guys, listen to your future self.

Do not lay out in the sun.

for long periods of time at least.

I mean, I mean, not every day.

You got to really, you got to watch that for sure.

Also, it's too bad we couldn't have done some sort of integration with the Magic Eraser people because I really, I think I sold a couple with that, the way I endorse that thing.

Hey, ma'am, it's not too late.

I fucking love a magic erase afternoon of just slowly walking around the house with a book on my headphones.

You just, you notice so many things you never notice.

Oh, it's so relaxing.

Check your door jam,

your door jams and near knobs of doors.

It's wild how how gross those areas get check your light switches it's oh the baseboards i mean

i mean you're disgusting you are disgusting and so are we magic eraser that's our

promo yeah that's right okay so now that we're here at the end we're gonna rename this episode although i'm gonna make an argument this is one of the rare ones where i'm like this is the best name we could possibly come up with i don't know if we get better than jazz it jazzett's pretty good thousand island would work like animal style.

Yeah.

Got some Thousand Island on it.

Okay.

Also saying you can't drop a line in confession.

You have to know all your pairs.

You can't, you can't screw up your lines in confession.

You have to know every single Hail Mary, every single Our Father.

That seems too hard.

It's really hard.

It was very stressful in like third grade, knowing you had to memorize that.

word for word.

At least in like Hebrew prayers, you can fake it because you can just

fake Hebrew.

Yeah.

You just like make, turn the accent on a little stronger.

Well, if you're all singing it together, you can kind of just sing gibberish and no one knows that you don't know how to say the Koddish.

So you're just rhubarbing your way through the Koddish.

That's wrong.

I'm telling.

Well, I don't go to hell, so it's fine.

That's right.

We can also call it, he took an oath.

Yeah, that's a good one.

The barber oath.

That's right.

The barber oath.

Yeah.

Well, that's it.

We've given you all the options that you're ever going to get, and you're going to pick Jazzet anyway because it's the best title.

And we're going to let Karen and Georgia from 2017 and Elvis and Mimi

say our goodbyes.

I think I can get Mimi to shoot me out again.

Yes.

Thanks for listening.

Oh, thank you so much for listening.

You guys are the best.

We appreciate your support and having fun with us.

And we want you to stay sexy.

And don't get murdered.

Mimi?

Want a cookie?

Mimi, say it.

Mimi, want a cookie?

Mimi?

Look at Mimi.

She won't do it.

Come on.

Hey!

I talked over her.

See, she'll do it again.

We could cut all this shit out.

She's mad.

No.

Ellis, you want a cookie?

Yeah, yeah.

That's how it's done.

Bye.

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