Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 67: Live At The Egyptian Room

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Hello,

and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia.

Yes, every Wednesday we recap our old shows with all new commentary, updates, and insights.

Today, we're recapping episode 67, which we named Live at the Egyptian Room, and that was from our Indianapolis live show.

This episode came out May 4th, 2017.

Let's listen to the intro of episode 67.

Hi!

What?

Hi, Indianapolis.

Hi!

You're here!

You came like you said.

You said you would.

You would, and you did.

You told us you were coming.

Hi, wow, this is so Indianapolis.

You guys are right up on this stage, aren't you?

Shit.

It's a little bit threatening, isn't it?

This is tight.

We're kind of here because I have a big mouth and

said something.

Georgia has some stuff to say to you guys.

I didn't, I think I was like being complimentary when I said what I said.

But fuck, man, we made up for it I think

by being here I mean I mean here's the thing we

for us we're having a private conversation

yeah we're just very slowly catching on to the fact that you guys listen to it after we record it yeah it's not just like we're trying to make steven laugh yeah we're trying to make each other laugh and then oh shit and then we're trying to offend the country uh-huh

definitely Definitely.

It's very easy to do.

It turns out.

Who knew?

All you have to do is mispronounce some cities and tell some people they're dicks.

And then,

oh,

suddenly you're there.

There you are.

Hi.

Hello.

You're there to make up for it with entertainment.

Look at this gorgeous room where this is you.

You're fucking nuts, you guys.

Yeah.

Thank you so much.

When we were in Portland, we were in an old like high school, and it totally felt like we were like the principals giving everyone a lecture about bullying.

Yeah.

This feels like we're the ushers at a very fancy movie theater.

Yes!

Where people are very excited to look at the screen.

I could kick someone in the forehead right now.

I'm sorry that that's the first thing I really want to do.

Just a quick...

It'd be funny though.

It would kind of be funny.

Hey, let's talk about presents because that's a positive.

You guys, okay here's the thing and this is what's beautiful about having fans like you guys is you'll you'll tweet us or social media somehow and say if we have a present how do we get it to you and we don't answer you because we can't tell you secrets like that but it doesn't matter because you get them to us anyway

figure it out It's very hard days night.

People getting on to some kind of thing and putting a towel over it and sneaking back.

I don't know.

I'm not sure how you get it.

We're adults and we can buy our own shit, but when we see a fucking present, we both lose our eyes.

That's like, what is it?

What is it?

And then we pull out the card and we start crying and then we sing and then we put the earrings in.

Okay, we're wearing your earrings, Silver in the City.

Silver in the City.

Oh.

Thank you.

I hate earrings and I put these in because they're so adorable and cats and I love them.

Seems like a lot of people work at Silver in the City.

It's not like your Walmart out here.

It's all the shoes.

Take them off.

And then we got, and then gorgeous, thank you.

Look at this cat mug.

These are from, but I don't remember.

I know.

Then it's this part.

This is lame.

The Weatherholt cousins gave me this fucking Siamese mug.

The Weatherholt girls came together, assuming.

I'm assuming they're girls.

They used to hate each other and then they bonded over murder.

And they got me a Siamese mug.

That's my new, it's totally my new stage mug until I leave it at home.

Like a trip, for for sure.

And then they gave you, oh shit.

They gave me, so this is pretty funny.

So Georgia opens that.

Well, I was kind of opening everything.

Let's be honest.

I'm a bit domineering.

And so I was pulling shit out, and then just I would decide if it was for her or not.

So we're like, yeah, undeniably, this is Georgia's cat travel mug.

And then the next thing came up, and we'd read the card that said,

Enjoy coffee and music.

And music.

And so I opened this little box, and it's a keychain holder, like a key holder.

And I was like,

thanks a lot.

But then we're like thinking,

me and George and Vince are kind of standing there, and we're just like, there's got to be more to it.

And there fucking was.

Because you unsnap, it was like a little triangle-shaped leather thing.

You unsnap it, and inside was a beautiful silver guitar pick that had SSDGM engraved on it.

I started crying.

It's true.

We had to redo our makeup.

We had to bring the whole team from Mac back in.

That makes me think because I want to mention

how many messages and emails we get whenever we're touring of like really sweet girls being like, I'm a makeup artist or I'm a hairdresser and I would love to do your makeup and hair for the, you know, and it's like such a sweet offer.

And I fucking love getting my hair and makeup done.

We want it so fast.

But you don't understand until like 5:59.

Is that a time?

Yes.

We're getting, we're freaking the fuck out and getting ready and finishing our merch.

Typing.

There's a lot of typing at 5.59.

This is it.

Whenever we get asked, like, how much, so how much research goes into, you know, how much time do you spend on each one?

And it's like, no, we're not like that.

We're back.

We didn't finish college.

We're terrible at homework.

We care and we love research.

We love it and we care about it.

We do.

And also, we save it till the very end.

We save it.

We push it right into our blowout time.

Yep.

And right into our.

We could have had such gorgeous gorgeous eyeshadows flowing lock I mean we would have been two we would have been Kendall and the other one Kardashian

but no we're fucking trying to do our book report the night before every single time it's like that uh-huh so thank you for the offers yeah we're not gonna we I mean look we're fucking we're living high on the hog professionals offers and we're just scraping through like feral children

I would like to point this out so as you know we talk about about our fancy outfits that we like to get for the tour.

We like to really dress it up for you as much as possible.

This dress I got last night, again last minute, and I saw it and I was like, magic, it's all coming together for me.

It's one of those dresses that has a built-in slip,

which then turns into a puzzle when you're putting it on.

The ladies back me up.

This is, I can't believe I made it into this dress is what I'm saying.

There was like seven different ways you could do it.

And it's also sewn on, because at one point I was going to rip the fucking thing out.

I was just like, get rid of the slip there, and I don't give a shit.

Do you ever do the thing when you try to put a dress?

I like fucking, like, I hate the extra step of putting a dress on basically under a dress.

So I'll do like a slip.

So I'll do the thing where like they're together and I'll try to put them on at once and it takes four times as long to get it on because you're just like, oh, I'm going to do this.

Beat the system.

A lot of that.

Also, you guys seem to have a lot of static electricity here.

Quite a bit.

Is that one of the things,

is that one of your outputs, whatever you call it?

Is that how you make money around here?

Fucking up my hair real good.

Oh, my God.

Does the city run on it?

My dress is permanently stuck.

It's like my dress is scared and is grabbing my leg.

Usually I like a little more flow around this area.

Looks like I just came out of a pond.

I meant to put heels on before we came out.

Forgot.

Anyway.

Are those your show slippers?

Yeah.

They're very cute.

Yeah, they are.

No, I'm just so because one time you were like, those shoes you have on look like those socks you put on under shoes

on stage.

She said that.

And now I'm like terrified that that's what these always look like.

But there's some shit going on with it.

I think I meant it as a compliment.

Oh.

Who knows when things come out with it?

Yeah.

I mean, who am I to say anything?

I'm wearing high-heeled clogs right now.

I'm wearing boot clogs with what now turn out, now that the lights are on me, to be a navy.

Oh shit!

What?

It did not look like that in the store.

I'm trying to be fancy.

It looks cool.

They won't let me be fancy.

It looks like you did it on purpose.

I have heels that are like that high, and every single time when I go to leave my hotel room, I'm like getting ready, of course, rushed, little typing over here, blow-drying over here, run, run, run.

And then I look and there's like shoe choices, and I'm like, fuck you, I'm putting you on it.

I do it every time.

No, I'm sure this was a subconscious thing that I did when I was like, nope, vintage heels, vintage black heels.

You can go fuck themselves.

Yeah.

These are gross.

Oh, Indianapolis, you guys just charmed the shit out of me today.

When near my hotel, there's a soup store.

Can I tell you this?

What, a soup store?

Yeah.

And you know, I love stupid, not stupid, stupid, but puns in general.

It's called supremacy.

What?

I cannot stop laughing about that.

I made Vince write it down backstage, and I just looked at it and just started cracking out.

Supremacy seems like it could be slightly

problematic in this day and age.

Yeah, I mean, it went through my head.

White bean supremacy.

Stop it.

Stop it.

Well, when I was a kid, my first record store, I didn't realize till I was grown up, and I went, oh, that's not good.

Was called Vinyl Solution.

They did it.

My 14-year-old brain wasn't like, they don't want you here, Georgia.

The little Jewish girls walking in, I like punk rock.

Yeah, they're like, we don't like you.

No.

That's pretty fucking clever.

How could you not like me?

I have little pigtails.

I'm baby Georgia.

Should we sit down?

Yeah, let's sit down.

This is the part where it gets really official.

Yeah.

This is a nice nice chair.

Who's she?

It's like a conference chair.

This is a high-class.

You should see some of the chairs that we sit in on these shows.

I swear to God, it's like a guy came up real quick right before the show and was just like,

but this is like Tony Robbins ordered these a couple years ago and left them behind.

Thank you.

Oh my God, am I sitting on Tony Robbins' butt?

That is so amazing.

There's someone else that loves to say fuck.

Does he?

He really does.

Yeah, he screams it in people's faces.

Yeah, he's all about it.

He thinks it's very freeing.

Travel mug.

Travel mug.

What does it taste like?

Water.

I have had too much caffeine at this point in my life.

Right today, now.

Sugar-free Red Bull, everyone.

That's my secret.

Okay.

Okay, but supremacy.

Can I tell you about my pizza place in my neighborhood when I was was a kid?

Maybe this started it all.

It's called Sergeant Pepperonis.

Jesus Christ.

I just appreciate it.

You've loved it since you were a child.

Well, everything in my town was just like grocery store.

Our grocery store is called Food City.

Like you didn't, you didn't have to have an imagination of any kind.

You were just like, yep, it's a bunch of food in there.

We're going to get some for ourselves.

We'll come back later and get more.

Fucking love that.

Food City.

Can we tell them about our murder, like my murder

in a snafu?

It's Stephen's fault.

It's very Stephen's fault.

Shout out to Stephen.

I mean, I could make this about, it's totally his fault.

Yeah.

So we, because we, as you know, we don't tell each other the stories, the crimes that we're going to talk about right now.

We don't tell them beforehand.

It's not faked, you guys.

It's genuinely a surprise.

We're not acting real surprised.

So last night,

I didn't check in or even think about telling Stephen who.

So Stephen's the middleman.

We both tell Stephen who we're doing.

And then if there is any overlap, he lets the second person know, basically.

Which there hasn't been thus far.

Never has been.

Never.

Like, am I cool doing so-and-so?

And he's like, You're good.

Always.

Yeah.

Well, last night, I

think I checked in with Stephen around 1:30 a.m.

because I was like well here's the thing I'm here's my person and also can you find me pictures and I was I knew I was less checking and more bossing of course

and he was like ooh we've got some overlap and I was like what the so I'd already worked on one I'd already worked on it I'd actually and this is why I don't work on things

The seventh grader in me says, this is why I don't try.

So now you know my guy then.

I know your guy.

He's the best one.

And then I had to put my own together real fast.

And this is a true story.

When I got to my hotel room finally, I sat down.

I was like, okay, I'd be on the plane with my two businessmen on either side of me.

We're all doing our business.

Me typing about murder, them, stocks, bonds, whatnot.

I was saying ours is so much better.

They could have both been poets.

Who Who knows?

Who knows?

So are we, kind of?

That's very true.

So what I did was I just like, because you can never, please never believe that you can actually get the internet on a plane.

That's such a fucking lie.

That's true.

Southwest is like Wi-Fi here and Wi-Fi there.

And I was like, yeah, I doubt it.

And so I just...

cut and pasted like 30 pages from Murderpedia about my person

and then I put it in a document.

So on the plane, I was just bolding the areas that I wanted to talk about.

And what a gorgeous document it was, everybody.

What an amazing amount of work I can do

when I apply myself.

Well, like, I mean, when you work on your murder, it's mine is like a fucking mess of like different sizes of font and different fonts, and like blacked out, and then redded out.

Yeah, it's just such a mess.

It always, like, Verdonna always comes up as a choice.

It's like, who's typing in Verdonna font?

Do you hate your eyes?

Oh, it's awful looking.

Anyway,

go with Times.

It's a classic.

I always use Georgia.

I always.

Do you?

Every fucking...

It's so.

Is that true?

Georgia?

I never admitted that.

That's for you, Indianapolis.

Yes.

Inside Secrets.

I mean, it's cute.

It's fine.

It's just like a little...

Just goat, you know?

Dude, I would fucking,

if there was a Karen and it looked like weird twigs, it'd be my whole document.

I wouldn't be like, it's gorgeous, I love it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Maybe there will be one day.

Someday.

That's the dream to get a font.

So anyhow, I sit down to do my thing where I'm going to take my bold things that I worked on hard on the plane and put them on my brand new document.

I titled them both the same thing.

So when it came up and said, there's already a document that's this, do you want to replace?

Oh, I said yes.

And so instead of having pages and pages of bolded information, I had two paragraphs that were like, anyway, everybody.

And I was like, what the fuck?

And it was 5.15.

PM hadn't showered yet.

Emergency situation.

And here we are now.

And here we go.

So we're going to take an hour break and we'll be right back.

And if anyone wants to email us some ideas, no.

Hold tight.

Not true.

Who's first?

It might be me.

You're right, yes.

I think it is.

Yes.

From just yesterday.

Isn't that weird?

Just yesterday.

Oh, no, today.

Tuesday.

It came out today.

It's today.

It came out today.

We recorded on Tuesday, and I don't remember any of it.

We're already getting, like, a couple of people put quotes in, and I'm like, I don't remember talking about pinching penises.

Like, what the fuck?

It's all a blur.

Yeah.

I probably said that, because that sounds like something I would say.

Oh, except for, yeah, okay, fine.

Cherry Hill is in New Jersey.

I don't know if you guys caught that part, but I did.

My murder took place in Cherry Hill, New Jersey, and the entire time I said it was Cherry Hill, Pennsylvania.

I must have said it.

I'm from California.

We don't have states that close.

So if

you're talking about going to Philadelphia, it's like, well, you must be in Pennsylvania.

There's no other way.

I don't.

I'm already lost

of what I'm saying right now.

So your whole murder was in the wrong state?

Uh-huh.

Oh, I didn't realize that.

Uh-huh.

I thought you just like mentioned this other city once.

No.

Oh, fuck.

No, I was like, the Cherry Hill Mall in Pennsylvania.

I was like, I was acting like that guy that does the Mark Twain show where I was just like, listen up, gather around, everybody, and let me tell you about Cherry Hill, Pennsylvania.

Oh, well, how many people are in the state of New Jersey?

And how many people listen to our podcast?

Because we just lost all of those listeners.

Well, did we lose them or now do they have something to fight about, which is their favorite fucking thing in the world to do?

New Jersey's like, I'm sorry, but.

I thought you meant people who listen to the podcast are favorite thing to do is fight.

You meant people in New Jersey.

I get it.

New Jersey.

Yeah.

Subset, subset.

Okay, okay.

Yeah, they're probably gonna just listen to hear more mistakes and correct about them, probably,

because we make a couple mistakes.

Listen, and you know what happens?

And cut two, we're in New Jersey, right?

I mean, you guys know, if anybody knows, it's Indianapolis.

We fuck up, then we show up.

Yeah.

Hey.

Yeah, that's true.

We're back, and I have no idea what is the Indianapolis drama

that you're apologizing for.

I think I just like threw it out there as like, you know, like a city you wouldn't go to, a random city, but then we went there and it's fucking coolest.

The best.

And we went back.

Yeah.

Because it was so good.

So I think we made it up to them.

Well, and I think, again, not to brag, but I think we're pretty good at being like, hey, we fucked up.

So don't be mad at us because we're here yeah which is great yeah just like throwing out the name of a city it's not like i would use new york or boston right i'm doing it again you're asking for it also like i know what this live show was and then i went on the internet to look at pictures of the egyptian room this is the show where the guy was sitting in the front row with his fan and his fur coat this was it indianapolis he keeps coming up and we hope he comes to our live shows because

i kept saying it was st.

Louis, but I just had the area wrong.

I'm almost positive it was the Egyptian show.

I believe you.

Yeah.

Anything different now about our pre-show?

Our pre-show live show prep is so much better now because we have people to help us do things.

People are helping us.

And that makes all the difference.

Huge.

And we kind of like.

understand the procedure a little bit more.

Yes.

Kind of what we're up against, what we're about to go do and what we should focus on and what we should not focus on.

Right.

Like fake eyelashes.

Definitely.

Yes, you have to dedicate your time.

You must.

Like put your foundation garments on in enough time where that's not the last minute panic.

Right.

Also, the idea that we had what seemed to be an endless conversation where it was like supremacy, the whole, it's so problematic and hilarious because it's like, basically, the clock was just up on conversations like this being

something people don't freak out at.

Joke around about.

Yes.

It was like white bean supremacy where I'm like, what are we doing what are we doing we're being our sweet innocent little selves not knowing that in eight years the nazis would be at the door that's right well god damn tell you that supremacy the innocent one is still open and thriving and they now go buy small batch soups

by supremacy So they got the fucking memo too.

You know what happened?

I bet you in that sign, small batch soups is huge and buy supremacy.

Real huge supremacy is.

It's a whisper.

See, look, we all made mistakes.

Just ask Soup Plantation how they're handling things.

Jesus.

Oh, do you remember those stage chairs?

I don't.

No.

I don't remember the stage chairs from a week ago.

Yeah, for real.

It's such a funny blur to be on stage and the things you do remember and focus on and the things you don't.

Absolutely.

Because I think in the Egyptian room, if it is the place I remember, it kind of looked like a big conference hall.

So people were sitting in individual chairs.

It wasn't a theater.

It was a music venue and a lot of other things.

Okay, and they put like folding chairs out.

Yeah, that's such a different like vibe.

And they weren't even folding chairs.

They were like straight back banquette chairs kind of things.

So that's, I started getting that panicky feeling of they're not going to like us.

They're, they're here for like a Tony Robbins, you know, conference and not us.

And the panic began.

And that's why that guy meant so much to me.

Yeah.

House right.

stage left.

He was fucking bringing the sass.

Fan.

Just, yes, letting us know joke by joke how great we were doing.

Where I was just like, oh, this is not only not going badly, this couldn't be better.

Even though the chick next to him is getting sciatica from those chairs, he's fucking having a grand old time.

And that's all she's suffering in silence, right?

Fine with me.

Appreciate you.

And we did some amazing stories at this show.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

Because we had some choices.

Pretty goddamn epic.

So let's just get right into it because I think this is one of your most epic stories.

This is Karen covering the story of Belle Gunnis.

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Goodbye.

All right, should we do this?

Let's.

Oh, this is my favorite murder.

That's Karen.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

We needed to get a big third cheer going before the readings start.

Pump you guys up.

You know?

Well, I went, if I couldn't do Georgia's,

then I had to go to number two, two, who I didn't, the only reason I didn't pick her is because she's

an oldie.

She's like a vintage one.

You like old timey.

I do love an oldie, but I'd done a couple recently, so I thought I was going to update and try to be more current.

Nope, I got slapped back down by fate.

And here I am.

I swooped in hard on that guy.

You had to.

I was like, this guy's the worst thing I've ever read about in my fucking life.

He's pretty fucking awful.

But so is our girl, Belle Gunnis.

Right, everybody?

You know her, right?

Uh-huh.

Horrible.

God, she loved to kill people and burn things down.

Is that a local thing, or was that just her taste?

Because she really loved to burn.

I mean, she was what they call a firebug.

All right.

Some of her nicknames were Lady Bluebeard.

Oh, that's got to be sad.

Like, make you feel bad about yourself.

Yeah, that's going to get you to the tweezers and the magnifying mirror real quick.

Why did they call me that?

I shave every day.

The Laporte Black Widow.

Right, Laporte?

Oh.

The Mistress of Murder Farm.

Oh, that's fun.

That actually seems like a British procedural that I would watch.

Dude, does.

The Mistress of Murder Farm.

Welcome,

Axe.

Okay.

And Hell's Bell.

That's cool.

That seems more like a.

It's like a roller derby name.

Totally is.

Also, there's a really great female ACDC cover band called Hell's Bell.

Oh,

unbelievable.

It's kicky.

It's amazing.

Anyway, Belle Sorensen Gunnis was born November 11th, 1859.

She was from Norway.

She left there in 1881 at the age of 21 to move to Chicago, like her sister did.

So they emigrated to America.

She became a servant and she worked as a servant for a couple years.

And then she married her first husband, Mads Sorensen, three years later in 1884.

Mads?

Is it Mads?

The Norwegians have the name M-A-D-S.

Mods?

Mads?

It's Mauds, that's right.

It's too Mads.

Okay.

Mads is kind of a hilarious name.

All right.

Anyway,

the two of them marry and they open a candy store.

And

how fucked up do you have to be to have an unsuccessful candy store?

Because they did it.

They sucked at candy.

How do you do it?

They sold like, what's the gross flavor of?

Only like those buttons on paper.

It's just like buttons.

They called their candy store buttons on paper.

It's just one giant roll of buttons on paper.

Kids kept getting smashed by it every time they tried to get one.

They're just cutting weird pieces out randomly.

I don't like the store.

All Alright, so

since their candy store fails,

it strangely burned down almost a year later after they opened it.

Oh, that's burning candy.

Smell it.

So Belle and Mads collected their insurance on that business and they bought a new home.

And then they had two biological children,

Myrtle in 1897 and Lucy in 1899.

Those are cute.

When is Myrtle going to come back?

It can't.

It's that you will immediately be called a turtle.

Grammar school.

Please think these things through.

You have to go through the rhyming of the children's names.

Sorry, I didn't mean to attack you.

I'm having a fucking kid.

I don't care.

They also had a foster child named Jenny Olson.

They also had two other biological children that did not survive infancy.

And both of them were diagnosed to have had extreme colitis, which has the same symptoms as strychnine poisoning.

But they're babies, and this is a family.

And so the doctors were like, they have extreme colitis, everybody.

Interestingly,

I mean,

both of those children's lives were insured.

As you do, insure your baby all the time.

I mean, a tiny bit.

In 1980 fucking whatever the shit.

That baby was going to be the most amazing, like, stick and stick and hoop baby.

Stick and hoop baby.

Look at that arm.

Insure that arm.

I was going to call it stick and circle.

Jesus.

Jesus.

All right.

So then on July 30th, 1900,

Mavs died.

He

also had some colitis-like problems.

Runs in the family.

Yeah.

That weird poisoning runs in this family.

And interestingly, he died on July 30th, which was the only day his two life insurance policies overlapped.

Madsen.

Wow.

That's asking for trouble.

Lucky, lucky, lucky.

So the Sorenson's family doctor had been treating him,

Mads, for an enlarged heart.

And so he, the first doctor was like, this is absolutely strychnine poisoning.

And then the family doctor was like, no, no, no, no, sit down, young lady.

He died of heart failure.

And so she applies for insurance money the day after the funeral, as you do.

And she gets $8,500, which is a little over $200,000 in today's money.

Not for another candy store, probably.

No, no, no, no.

She learned her candy lesson.

So she uses the money to purchase a 42-acre farm in Laporte,

Indiana.

At the end, that scared the shit out of me.

We were about to come back.

I mean,

we were about to leave and come back out.

That second apology tour.

Damn.

So much harder than it looks.

Okay.

Laporte, Indiana, at the end of McClung Road.

Everybody talks about McClung Road.

Someone lived there.

Oh my god, I love McClona.

So she moves in, and then it's reported that soon after, both the boat and carriage houses burn down.

So maybe that's just what she did to get used to being living in a place.

You know what I mean?

It's like, doesn't feel like me yet.

I don't know.

I want to warm it up somehow.

I want to.

Literally warm it up.

Oh, also, I just wrote here

very randomly.

Reports say that she was six feet tall and 200 pounds.

No way.

No way.

I think that's like a Paul Bunyan thing of like, I think she was so horrifying that people are like, and she's not over six feet tall.

It turned into one of those things.

Which was tall back then because everyone was like, no one got higher than 5'4.

Everyone was like, my bones, my rickets.

She's like, I'm doing great.

I'm from Norway, and I'll kill you for no reason.

All right.

So

as she's getting ready to, she buys the farm in Laporte, she's getting ready to move from Chicago to Laporte, she becomes reacquainted with a recent widower named Peter Gunnis, who also is from Norway.

So that kind of, you know, local Norway hookup.

And

so they get married in Laporte on April 1st, 1902.

A week after the ceremony, Peter's infant daughter died of uncertain causes while alone in the house with Belle.

Oh.

Yep.

Then in December of 1902, Peter himself met with a quote-unquote tragic accident.

According to Belle, he was reaching for his slippers next to the kitchen stove.

Already there's too many nouns in this.

When you have to lie, and we always do, just kind of keep the nouns to amens.

You don't need slippers in this story at all.

He was just near the stove like he always is.

The kitchen doesn't even hit, like, it's a given that the stove is in the kitchen.

That's right.

Don't specify what we already know.

Yeah.

And

take notes, you guys, for when you fucking kill your

people.

This whole thing's going to turn on us so fucking hard.

But it'll be fun until then.

So many presents until then.

He's reaching for his slippers next to the kitchen stove when he's scalded with brine.

Brine.

Again,

she later declared that, in fact, part of a sausage grinding machine had fell from a high shelf and hit him on the head.

Pesky sausage machines.

Is this kitchen like Peewee Herman's?

Like, what is happening, Belle?

Then that anvil came from across the room.

Okay.

So a year later, Peter's brother Gust,

should have read this over.

Gust of Wind.

He came down, he takes Peter's older daughter, Swanhilda.

Wow.

When's Swanhilda coming back, everybody?

Wow.

Wow.

Yeah, when's that one coming back?

When are you going to hear that yelled across McDonald's play place?

Swanhilda.

No.

Don't lick that.

Basically.

Oh, he's licking.

Get away from the Brian, Swanhilda.

Swanhilda's uncle, Peter's brother,

comes down, gets her, and gets her out.

He's like,

Any rash are in Gusta?

Come on.

Soup.

Sup premacy.

Sorry.

Sorry.

Go on.

No, no.

Never apologize.

Try not to.

So

she gets out.

The uncle's like, something's going on.

Yeah.

Oh, he's like, get the fuck out of here.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Get the one remaining living child of a once flourishing family.

Good friend.

So the coroner reviews his case, his death, and announces unequivocally, or unequivocally, I'm not sure,

that he was murdered.

And

his stepdaughter, Jenny,

her stepdaughter, Jenny, so I'm sorry,

his daughter,

is overheard at school saying, My mama killed my papa.

She hit him with a meat cleaver and he died.

Just on the swings, chilling.

Juice box.

Kids.

Don't lick that.

So

stay in the candy store.

So

she's brought before the coroner's jury.

So the coroner does have an inquest because he's like, this is incredibly suspicious.

And when they try to talk to her about it, she denies ever having said anything.

And then Belle convinces the coroner that she's absolutely innocent and she didn't do anything.

He believes her.

Does he marry her?

He does not marry her.

But then I'm thinking, if she really was, if she really was six feet tall, 200 pounds, she must have been an amazing presence to be able to be like, oh, no, no, I didn't kill him.

Goodbye.

Like, can you imagine this kind of like a giantess just being like murdering and then being like, but don't blame me.

Goodbye.

Has to duck through the door on the way out, but it's like, but

everyone drops.

Okay, this is taking too long.

So

Belle tells neighbors soon after, she explains, Jenny's gone off to finishing school.

Good.

Never good.

Uh-uh.

Finished.

Yeah.

That's right.

So Belle runs her farm from 1903 to 1906, and in 1907, she hires a farmhand named Ray Lamphere.

I think we do have a picture of Ray Lampere.

He's got a mustache.

Nope.

She also had a mustache you weren't wrong but that was bell nope that's a good one though that's the farm we just keep going through

what if there's like 90 pictures it'd be like and there's me there's summer in the

there's ray lamp here he looks chill he looks like

he looks like 70 of the bartenders in los angeles

No, I don't want to come see your improv team.

Thank you.

Oh, just the look in his eye is so dead.

Belle, let me help you with your phone.

I got this.

I need to help you.

So, that guy.

And also, could we just really quick, could we go back to the picture of Belle herself just to see what everyone's why everyone is so in love?

There she is.

Is this her?

Yeah.

Oh, she's pretty.

She's not.

Am I wrong?

What's that?

She's pretty.

She pretty.

Is she is she pretty pretty she pretty even I'm like oh, maybe she didn't do it

You know what you guys I think she's innocent

look at her look at she I mean she does have a hat face and that's

I can't say the same thing.

I mean the ruffles

So Ray Lamphere shows up with the fire in his eyes and the insane mustache and he is immediately in love with her.

So he'll do anything she asks.

All right.

So, this is that's what's happening, the feel around the farm.

And at the same time,

Bell Gunnis puts an advertisement in the newspaper, in all the Chicago daily papers, and in, I guess, some of the Norwegian papers.

And this is the, it's basically kind of like a

personal ad.

And hers reads, personal, comely widow who owns a large farm in one of the finest districts in Laporte County, Indiana,

desires to make the acquaintance of a gentleman equally well provided with a view of joining fortunes.

No replies by letter considered unless sender is willing to follow answer with personal visit.

Triflers need not apply.

Hey,

I don't want no scrubs.

And that batchender side of the

His best friend's farm.

Trying to burn down a horse.

Burn down a horse.

She tried to burn that horse.

Triflers need not apply.

Is our next shirt.

Oh.

Oh, my God.

Shit.

Steven.

Steven.

Stephen, get on that.

Steven, do it now.

I mean, right?

I mean, she's not wrong.

Yes, she murders children.

Yes, she murders children and adults.

Yes.

But.

But also, travelers need a plane.

They simply needn't.

They needn't.

Okay.

Okay.

So now there's a stream of like middle-aged, mostly Norwegian male suitors that are coming to the farm.

bringing their the a lot of them are just clearing out their bank accounts they're selling their houses they're cashing it all in and bringing their money to this woman.

That

oftentimes she would be exchanging letters

with them, and they were like kind of you know, love, lovish letters.

My dearest mother,

that's it, exactly.

I don't know how to do it.

I'm not a poet.

So,

Ray Lampear is getting really jealous because

these men are showing up and they're not leaving

in the bad way.

So she fires him on February 3rd, 1908.

And shortly after, she presents herself at the LaPorte courthouse and declares that Ray Lamphear was not in his right mind and was a menace to the public.

And she actually ends up convincing local authorities to hold a sanity hearing against him.

He's pronounced sane and released, Hugh.

Gunnis is back a few days later to complain to the sheriff that Lamphere had visited her farm and argued with her and that she contended he posed a threat to her family.

He posed a threat to her family.

She's killed everyone in her family.

Everybody.

And she has Lamphere arrested for trespassing.

Wow.

Then she tells a lawyer in Laporte that she fears for her life and the lives of her children.

She said that Ray Lamphere threatened to kill her and burn her house down.

Oh.

Three fingers pointing back at her.

Classic.

So she makes out a will in case he goes through with it.

And

then she leaves her entire estate to her children and

leaves.

And then

she pays off her mortgage and she doesn't go to the police to tell them about Lamphere's behavior.

She's She's just telling this lawyer.

And then

the new, she hires a guy named Joe Maxson to replace Lamphere in February.

And in the early hours of April 28th, 1908, he wakes to the smell of smoke in his room.

And he's on the second floor of the house.

And he opens the door, his bedroom door, to a sheet of flames.

He's screaming.

Belle's name, the children's names.

He doesn't hear anything.

So he runs out the door in his underwear.

He leaps from a second-story window, he barely survives the fire.

He races to town to get help, but by the time they come, the hook and ladder old-fashioned fire truck comes back, the whole farmhouse is gutted in a heap of smoking ruins.

And that's that picture of all the people standing around.

That's that's what's left.

And in there, they find the bodies.

No, yeah, there's four bodies: three

children's bodies.

The children are are all in their beds.

And then one of a grown woman, but she doesn't have a head.

Uh-huh.

So they're like, oh, this is terrible.

The house burned down and the gunners all died inside of it.

Well, the doctors measure the remains and

making allowances for the missing neck and head.

Who wrote that?

Obviously, they're not going to measure an invisible neck and head.

So they say that the corpse is a woman who stood 5'3 and weighed no more than 150 pounds.

Their neighbors said that Belle was probably 5'9,

but she did weigh like, you know, 180, 200 pounds, whatever.

So

they actually had a dressmaker that was in Chicago that they contacted who had her exact measurements, brought them back, and this body was not Belle Gonna.

That's police work, man.

Yeah.

Shit.

Yeah, in the turn of the century police work.

Let's get positive.

But they do find Belle's dentures in the ashes.

And so because of that, the police can't, they're like, well, this then is her.

Like they did, everything else.

Everything else is like, nah, you know.

I mean, we heard she was 5'8, but

it's the teeth that really prove it.

The teeth that didn't stay in her mouth most of the time.

The teeth that mostly were in a glass.

Removed from your face.

They were in a glass at the top of where her neck was.

Inappropriate.

All right.

Now, one of her earliest victims, so I will read you this list of people who did show up at this farm thinking that they were in love with a woman and they're going to live the rest of their life on a beautiful farm with her and who never left.

One of them had a brother who, when his brother never came back and he never heard from him again, he showed up at the farm and Belle was like, oh, he never came here.

And he, the whole time, was like, this woman's dirty, I don't like it, there's something about it.

So he went, after this fire, he went to the sheriff and was like, you have got to investigate this.

This is this woman's insane.

So Sheriff Smutzer was the man's name.

Yeah, the Smutzers.

He takes a dozen men back to the farm.

They begin to dig.

And on May 3rd, 1908, they unearthed the body of Jenny Olson, the stepdaughter.

They also found small bodies of two unidentified children.

And subsequently, the body of Andrew Helgelian, who his brother was the one,

Azel,

probably not,

was the one who was making, they found his body.

And then, as they begin digging, they just keep finding bodies.

And so these are the bodies they found.

Ole B.

Bunsberg of Iola, Wisconsin.

Did you hate him?

Did I pronounce it wrong?

I went luck.

Good luck with this.

It's going to get worse.

I mean, there's just a big fucking shitload of Scandinavian names I'm not going to be able to pronounce.

Thomas Lindbow,

Henry Gerlholt.

They find his watch in the ground.

Olaf Svennerhud.

This is like

a bad thing.

This is like.

Sorry, though.

This is also like a Betty Weiss character on Golden Girls, where I'm just like.

Oh, you mean when Olaf Sverdenhood went down to the farm and never came back?

John Moe, he was there too.

Olaf Lindblum.

I mean, it just goes, it's insane.

It goes on and on.

And she ended up,

they think that she killed over 40 people,

men, women, and children.

Holy moly.

And this is my kind of my favorite part of it.

And there's lots of people that are like unnamed or somebody

came by.

There's, you know,

it's bad.

And they actually didn't dig the whole farm at the time.

They found kind of the bodies that they knew proved that she really was a killer, but they didn't actually excavate the entire farm.

So they know of 40, but they think there could be tons more because she had many, many hundreds of acres to bury bodies.

She shouldn't go there now.

Oh my god, I'm dying to.

Does anybody have a shovel?

That'll be so much fun.

But she's gone.

She's disappeared.

Yeah.

So

nobody ever, there's lots of sightings of her, and there's people who are like, there's detectives who think they see her in Mexico City and New York City and all over the place, but no one ever actually finds her.

Really?

Uh-huh.

And then, but in 1931, a woman whose name was Esther Carlson was arrested in Los Angeles for poisoning August Lindstrom for money.

And two people who had known Belle Guinness claimed to recognize her from the photographs, but the identification was never proved, and Esther Carlson died in jail while awaiting trial.

Whoa.

And that is the story of Belle Gunnis, everybody.

Yeah.

Man, that's good.

Never found her.

They never found her.

She got away with it.

She got away with it.

She really did more, right?

Yeah.

Well, she, you mean in between?

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

Now she's good at it.

Totally.

What if, or what if she didn't?

What if she stopped murdering?

She's like, I'm going to get this candy thing right.

And then she became Mrs.

Haribo

thank you come on

okay we are back it's an old case Karen any updates nope none but here's the update I do have after our 2017 show in Indianapolis Harold Schechter released hell's Princess The Mystery of Belle Gunnis Butcher of Men and that became a best-selling biography.

It's still considered one of the most detailed accounts of Belle's story.

So it's everything I needed to tell the story and did not have a year later.

Oh man.

All the other true crime podcasters get to benefit from Harold Schechter's book.

Also, the personal ad sign-off, Triflers Need Not Apply, that was from Belle Gunnis' hand directly.

We made merch.

Everybody loved it.

It was a huge

triflers need not apply was like a big moment.

It was great.

So yeah, I think this was an epic show kind of all the way around.

Totally.

And we're only halfway through because George is about to bring the thunder with one of my favorite cases.

It keeps getting more and more attention and becoming more and more awful.

And the details, it's almost like I don't think a lot of people really knew about it before we started the podcast.

Yeah.

And it's just getting to be one of those, like, oh shit, this is a heavy fucking hitter.

Yes.

Story.

Big time.

So, George is about to tell everybody the story of Herb Baumeister.

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Goodbye.

All right, you fucking sickos.

You ready for this one?

Because this one's fucked up.

I bet you guys know what it is already.

Herb Baumeister.

Gotta be.

Screw that.

Herb Baumeister.

There we go.

Herb Maister.

Fucking Herb.

Born.

Can I say something once really quickly?

Yes.

There is a picture.

When you Google Herb Baumeister and you Google images,

it's hilarious.

I mean, whatever.

But there's one picture, and I don't, it's the cover of a book someone wrote.

It's that mask, that skin mask.

Yeah, what is that?

What is that?

I don't know.

It comes up.

It comes up and I click off of it really fast, but then sometimes I wait like three seconds and then I click off it really fast.

I don't have it.

It's such a bummer.

What effects on you guys?

That's your time.

Steven, leave it up the whole time.

It looks like anything you've seen in in an Ed Gein school, except for that it's melting on purpose to fuck with you.

It's so upsetting.

It could be.

I don't think that's his.

You don't think he made it?

I don't know.

I don't know if he did that.

Was it just a piece of art?

Probably.

Unrelated.

You know how, like, okay.

How stuff gets in there and all of a sudden you're like, oh, Kogan, come on.

I'm trying to look up a murder.

One of the first photos that comes up when you Google my name, not that I do it every night or anything,

is a Miley Cyrus photo.

And I don't know why.

You lucky.

I know.

Okay.

April 7th, 1947, Herb Baumeister is born in suburban Westfield near Indianapolis.

His childhood's normal, but as adolescence, he begins exhibiting antisocial behavior.

Acquaintances later recall him playing with dead animals and urinating on a teacher's desk.

Oh.

Like, was he standing on it, being down, or was he just like up in the air and it was like a waterfall?

From his desk?

yeah yeah

because then that's not antisocial it's like the coolest guy in class yeah that's like very social yeah

I have so many questions about that yeah

a friend says he would say strange things like wonders what it would be like to taste human urine hmm not interested

and he had a fascination with dead animals As a teenager, he's diagnosed with schizophrenia, but he doesn't receive further psychiatric treatment, which seems so hard to believe because,

anyway, he's just, he was successful in a lot of ways.

So I don't know if that's okay.

Like he could afford doctors and stuff, you mean?

No, that he was schizophrenic at all.

Oh, oh, he went on to like have normal jobs and stuff.

Yeah, like unmedicated.

Okay, as an adult, he starts to explain.

He's a successful murderer.

Yeah.

Seems like a hard thing to be.

Yeah.

As an adult, he starts to exhibit increasingly bizarre behavior, but of course, someone still marries him.

Always.

I have a photo.

I think there's a photo photo of the two of them together.

The Bellmeister family.

No, no,

let's look at him for their.

There they are.

Stephen, you did not put these in order.

Stephen, you didn't put these in the order I didn't tell you to put them in.

Never told you about.

That one works.

I think there's one more behind it.

Yeah, there we go.

Yeah, look at that.

That's right.

He put a ring on that crazy motherfucker.

He's like, I'm going to kill a lot of people.

Sure, I'll buy you a ring.

Little does she know.

He marries Julie Sater in 1971, and they have three fucking children.

Although Julie later admits that she and Herb had sex only six times in the 25 years they were married.

So you can go back to the one of the family.

There we go.

Look at those kids are like, oh, fuck.

So it's just six times.

So it was two for the kids.

Three for the kids.

Oh, three kids.

Each time took two tries.

And that was it.

That's it.

It's all you get, Julie.

And then there's a piece of tape down the middle of the bed.

You stay on your side.

Yes.

But actually, she said she never saw him nude.

That he would get dressed in the bathroom, put pajamas on the bathroom before coming to bed.

He was ashamed of his skinny body.

But also a fucking psychopath.

So,

it's not just like a lot of people are skinny.

Yeah,

a lot of people are, you know, that's kind of the dream for some.

A lot of people are like flaunting that shape.

Yeah.

That's true.

Making money at it.

He has a bunch of

weird jobs, but his behavior is always weird and creepy, including urinating on his boss's desk.

Wait.

He was like, it's me, the urinating on the desk guy.

Kind of his thing.

Again, standing on the floor and kissing up, or standing on the desk?

Because it's kind of like funny if he was standing on the desk going, ah,

you know, but if he's on the ground, it's like, oh.

Or was the desk in the bathroom and it's not his fault?

Fair.

Let's be fair.

Good question.

Fairness.

What if in the bathroom after this, there's just a, I walked into P and there's just a desk in the bathroom.

It's haunted.

Did it, did it, did it, eat it.

Someone's like, Georgia, I'm glad you came in to see me today.

This is your yearly review.

Never saw him nude.

He was skinny, weird job, peed on a desk.

Then

he founds a thrift store chain in Indianapolis in 1988 called Save a Lot.

This Save a Lot sucks.

Did you guys know that you used to buy your fucking vintage shit at the fucking murderer's shop?

It was all covered in pee.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I don't normally do pee and poo jokes.

What if your like childhood bunk bed was from Save a Lot?

Oh, bad memories all of a sudden.

Your mom, you keep getting blamed.

You're like, I swear to God, I don't wet the bed.

I know I'm seven.

Can you please listen to me?

Then why does it smell like pain?

It became super fucking successful, and they opened a second location and they got super fucking rich.

They buy a huge tutor house in upscale Westfield district called the the it's called Fox Hollow Farms.

They have a fucking name.

You live in a place with a name.

Ooh, we got rich people here.

Yeah.

Fox Hollow Farms,

18 and a half acres

in an indoor pool, which is, oh, this depresses me so much.

It smells so much like chlorine in that pool.

They always, it just makes me think of like your divorced dad who's like spending all his money before your mom can get it.

It's just like, so he has an indoor pool.

Yeah.

It's just like, I don't know.

Kids, it's snowing, get in there.

And you're like, but I can't, but I don't want to do laps.

Okay.

Then in the 90s, 1990s, gay men in the Indianapolis area start to disappear.

Authorities, of course, blamed it on their lifestyle and they were like, they ran away to the big city, you know, to like, so we were, we wouldn't, like, make fun of them.

So that's where they went.

And

all the men were of similar age, height, and weight.

But Virgil Vandegriff, who's like a fucking hero of the story, needs to be played by like Harrison Ford or some shit.

He is kind of a Vandegriffey type.

Vandegriff.

Virgil.

Virgil Vandegriff.

Virgil.

Look at my earring.

He has an earring.

I hate that earring.

They just call him Griff.

Griffy.

Anyways, he's a retired, successful private investigator, which is fucking awesome.

And he's approached by the mother of 28-year-old Alan Burrsard to ask for help finding her missing son

and Virgil starts to put the pieces together Alan was part of the local gay scene and was last seen leaving a bar called brothers

well and

after party there

where it seems like brothers something's going on at brothers I don't know I kind of don't want to know it would take too long for a audience to tell us a story yeah but let's have our bachelorette party at brothers right that's true

um or it burned down and people are upset we won't know okay while investigating alan's disappearance van de griff stumbles upon the case of jeff jones who disappeared in mid-93 a year earlier a year earlier vanishing from the streets of indianapolis The last disappearance which caused Vandegriff to link all the cases and convince him that Indianapolis has a serial killer was when he was confronted by a man named Tony Harris.

I think that's not his real name though, because he was like, I don't want to be a part of this.

He tells Vandegriff that his friend Roger Alan Goodlett, 34, had left a gay bar called Our Place with a man calling himself Brian Smart, and he hadn't been seen since.

So Tony is convinced that Brian Smart had killed his friend, but when police brush him off, he takes matters into his own hands.

Oh, hell yeah.

Chuck Norris style.

Chuck yeah.

Played by Chuck Norris.

We've done it.

We're casting this thing.

We're doing several jobs at once.

Stephen, write those names down.

When Tony next sees Brian Smart at a gay bar, he tricks Smart into taking him home with him.

Shit.

Yeah.

Oh, he's going undercover, like?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, that's not a good idea, though.

I know.

But it's pretty badass.

It's insanely badass.

Yeah.

Only because he could have survived and otherwise

would be an intense tragedy.

Yeah.

Okay.

We all understand.

We got that.

Smart invites Tony back to his house for a cocktail and a swim.

When they get to Brian Smart's house, a large Truder

mansion, they go for a swim in the indoor pool.

And eventually things get weirder when Smart says, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Indoor pool is weird enough.

Weird.

I just learned that.

So Brian Smart says, I just learned this really great trick.

If you choke someone while you're having sex, it feels really great.

That's not a trick.

You're like, we were.

Sorry, we were just talking about baseball.

What the fuck?

What are you doing?

Yeah, I thought you were going to show me some magic.

This is not a magic trick.

This is creepy.

And he says, if you choke someone, you really get a great rush.

He says, okay, sounds fun.

Brian shows Tony how to pinch the carotid arteries and says, it's such a great buzz.

You should see how someone looks when you're doing it to them.

Their lips change colors, and that's how you can tell it's working.

And you're like, cool, let's make out.

Like, who the fuck was.

I just want to know you more now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So Tony allows Smart to demonstrate on him.

But Tony's not the private investigator, right?

No, Tony's the dude who's trying to lift the gay bar up with that dude.

And he's just like, I'm going, I'm going to do this myself.

Yeah.

That's awful.

It's a lot of bad ideas.

A lot of bad ideas.

Yeah.

Maybe you thought it could file.

Okay, go ahead.

Sorry.

I keep you interrupted.

No, it's good.

That's the point of this whole podcast.

Oh, right.

That's right.

So he allows him to do it, but he pretends to be unconscious before he could pass out, which I always thought was a fake thing.

Eventually, Tony convinces Smart to take him back into town.

It happens.

He wakes back up.

He's like, I'm good.

And he's like, can you take me back to town?

And he does.

And he's like, fine.

Yeah.

Because he didn't pass out sexy enough or something.

Also, what I hate is I'm picturing all of it happening in an indoor pool, so it's all echoey.

Smelly, yeah.

It's like, smells smells like chemicals.

And it's like, now you pass out.

You just, I gotta go.

A gross, moldy chase lounge.

One of those signs that says, we don't swim in your toilet, please don't pee in our pool.

Or active diarrhea, if you have it, please don't come in our pool.

Heard that?

Have you seen that one?

Active diarrhea.

If you have had active diarrhea in the past 24 hours, this is, we don't do shit jokes.

Yeah, but it's not who we are.

No.

There's also the one that's like, welcome to our ooh.

You might notice there's no pee in it.

Let's keep it that way.

That's funny.

Signs from the 70s.

Love it.

And then, oh, and then, so, so he convinces him to take him back to town.

Tony brought this information to Vandegriff, who I'm sure Tony left some shit out, probably, right?

That's like even worse than that.

And he also told Vandegriff about how there were mannequins in the basement where Smart had his like bar hang area.

What do they call them?

Like a bachelor area?

Or a murder area?

Yeah.

Mannequins all dressed up in various poses,

like hanging out.

I'm going to start crying.

I don't like this at all.

Well,

when Tony's like, what the fuck, Smart?

He's like, I get lonely down here.

They give me company.

They give me company.

They give me company.

Do you know what I bet?

I bet.

So I think he would bring home clothes from his thrift store.

I bet he'd bring them back, and someone in this audience is wearing them.

Whatever.

Can we bring the house lights up?

Do you know how loud I would start screaming if we turned a corner?

We're like, here's the mannequin room.

I would just be like,

I mean,

especially if you look like that fucking dude.

Can we get the closer picture of Herb?

Because that one's a really

one more bad one.

By himself, because he's got the eyes.

He's got the eyes of a person that

loves mannequins.

They'll find out.

Hilarious.

I love mannequins.

Don't you love mannequins?

Like they're cheap.

He never hurt people, but they don't talk.

Oh, Herb.

Okay.

So he brings this all the info to the police.

Virgil Vandegriff brings this info to the police, but the only person who would take him seriously was a detective named Mary Wilson.

Who's played by her?

Who's playing her?

Marcia Gay Harden, probably, is my first guess.

Great.

Because

she's going to be a person that's going to be able to wear a good pantsuit.

She's going to put her hand back like this and show her gun, but she might, she's not going to brandish her gun.

She's just going to be like, I've got a gun.

Yeah.

yeah that's Marcia Gayhard and for you ladies and gentlemen that's perfect so Mary as it turns out was investigating disappearances of other Indianapolis men as well those of 20 year old Richard Hamilton 21 year old Johnny Bayer and 28 year old Alan Livingston and others dating back to the early 90s all gay men

While Tony couldn't remember where Smart's house was located.

Oh, Tony.

I know.

It's key information.

I know.

He's like, I think it had the name Fox in it.

Like, he really couldn't remember.

And they even were like, what about this house that has an indoor pool?

And he's like, I don't think it is.

It was.

Tony.

Okay, Tony was high as fuck.

A little Coke, a little fucking.

He's like, look, I had to blend in.

It's just, I had to do what everybody else was doing.

It's the early 90s.

There's a lot of Coke, probably.

I don't really remember an indoor pool or mannequins.

Let's see.

He couldn't remember, but

he is obsessively frequenting gay bars for the next year in hopes of spotting Smart again.

He's like, I'm going to fix the fact that I can't remember this shit.

Well, yeah.

But he couldn't track him down a whole year almost.

Then on the night of August 29th, 1995, Tony spots Smart in a gay bar takes down his motherfucking license plate number.

Nice.

When Mary Wilson runs the plates, they belong to not anyone named Brian Smart, but to Herbert R.

Baumeister of Westfield, Indiana.

Did you guys catch on to that?

Probably, right?

I did.

I did.

I did.

I definitely did.

He lived in an estate called blah blah blah blah with his wife and children.

The manor house, Mary learned how to swimming pool in the basement.

Mary confronted Herb at his thrift store.

She's like, I think you're a fucking murderer of gay men.

And his thrift store is failing right now because of his increasingly erratic behavior with mannequins.

You're like, Herb, we don't need that many mannequins in there.

It's just, you can't even walk through the aisles.

It's nuts.

You don't need shopping mannequins.

We have shoppers for that.

Ooh, how creepy would that be if you turn a corner with your shopping cart and it's just like mannequin with a shopping cart.

I wanted this Coors t-shirt.

And it's mine.

Oh, God.

Oh, no.

No.

But he refuses to talk.

They said they wanted to search his home and they're like, he's like, talk to my lawyer.

Don't talk to me again.

But then they go to his wife, Julie, who also has, you know, reign over the property and is like, hey, guess what?

Your husband's, we think he's killing gay men around town.

Can we search your property?

And she's like, I can't deal with this right now.

Get the fuck out of here.

Nope, nope.

She like noped it real hard.

Well, that makes a lot of sense.

You gotta, right?

That's awful.

Yeah.

She's like, oh, fuck.

She's like,

I'm gonna go for a swim.

I can't handle this right now.

Well, six months goes by, and her brain is like, oh, like slowly catching up to the oh, fuckedness of it.

She remembers that a year earlier her son had been playing in the wooded backyard and he finds a half-buried complete human skeleton

already

And she's like oh shit and she's like honey Please tell me an excuse because I can't handle this Yeah, and he told her that his father had been a doctor She said it he said it had been one of his dissecting dissecting skeletons, But he stored it in the garage and then buried it in the backyard after he decided to clean the garage.

As you do.

And there was the slippers and Brian.

You know,

it's like this all the time.

Well, this happens.

I thought you were going to say, and I feel like other people did too: like the son found like a human femur or just some one small thing.

Not a half-buried human motherfucking skeleton, all like Wes Craven presents in your backyard.

It is so upsetting.

That poor kid, man.

Ugh, Jesus.

He's not having a good life.

I hope he is.

Or, or.

He's living his best life.

That's right.

He became Oprah Winfrey.

Love it.

Love it.

In addition, for several months at a time, she and the kids would get the fuck out of there and visit his mother, leaving Herb at home alone for like months at a time.

That makes sense.

Right.

When you leave your husband for months, go to his mom's house because she's cooler to hang out with than your husband.

His mom's cooler than him.

Yeah.

That's your marriage.

Yeah.

Great.

Bye.

And the timeline, she put it together, and the timeline matched of when the guys were disappearing.

So she was like, you know what?

I'm going to file for divorce.

And then she calls Mary and she's like, get the fuck over here now.

He's out of town.

So in June of 96, Mary,

she, Mary goes to Mary along with some skeptical officers who, of course, are like, they ran away to the big city.

You know, still, no.

It simply must be so.

Yeah.

Well, I don't look at evidence.

I make it up.

Easy, easy.

Yeah.

I was like, but you know, like, easy, easy.

No, no, no.

Easy, peasy.

Got it.

They go to the property to search.

They step out into the backyard and they immediately encounter a bone about a foot long, charred from having been burned in the backyard, as well as fragments of bones strewn about, and even human teeth.

Oh, dude.

That's from my uncle's dentist

dental company at Houston, and he loved gardening so much.

We heard it helps the plants grow and keeps the bugs away.

You sprinkle teeth on petunias.

Oh, the colors.

The state fair every year.

I enter them.

It is nightmare.

You walk out from an indoor pool into fucking boneyard.

Crunch, crunch.

What?

The sheriffs are like, we don't think this is...

Oh, fuck.

And Mary's like, gun.

Yeah.

What did I tell you?

I fucking told you so.

Uh-huh.

After police thoroughly searched the 18-acre estate, they turn up the remains of 11 men.

Early in his investigation, Vandegriff, good old fucking reliable Vandegriff, he's going to be played by a hound dog, I think.

You know what I mean?

With a fucking.

Oh, yeah.

You know what I mean?

At and Co, yes, yep.

McGrath.

Yeah, he's McGrath.

That's right.

He's halfway there.

It's all there.

McGruff Vandegriff?

There we go.

So easy.

So he had made connections to the disappearances of gay men in Indianapolis between them and the strangling murders of gay men whose bodies were found dumped along the corridor of Interstate 70 in Indiana and Ohio between Indianapolis and Columbus.

Is that right?

Which had been dubbed the I-70 murders.

And it's Herb?

Well, here we go.

Oh, sorry.

Yes.

Thank you for listening.

That's my story.

Good nine.

The last known I-70 murder, nine of them in all, had been committed in 1990, not long before the Indianapolis disappearances began.

So Julie Baumeister told authorities that her husband made as many as 100 trips to Ohio, and on what he said was a business trip, you know, as you do it, you're in a thrift store fucking shopper.

You got to get that good Ohio thrift clothing.

Yeah.

Right?

You guys have all those grandma sweaters.

I mean, I would do it.

I would do it right now.

I would go right now.

First we go dig up the rest of your lady's farm.

Then we fucking go.

Then we go down to Sweaterland.

Yeah.

Or is it down?

Don't know where I am.

That way.

Not sure where I am.

Is there barbecue on the way?

We stop for barbecue.

Good, good, good.

Great.

Then,

so 100 business trips, somebody said it was a store of business.

And during the late 80s,

his and his photo matched the police sketch drawn from witnesses who thought they had seen the I-70 Strangler, which I think was a fucking sketch of it because Stephen's awesome.

Oh,

oh, the one on the right is the scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz.

I don't know.

I will miss you most of all, Scarecrow.

I don't know if it looks like him, but he's a that guy's creepy.

Yeah, they were like, just can you give the worst eyes you've ever looked at?

And then a weird, pouty lip.

Uh-huh.

Trust me on this.

Very, very light mustache.

And let's pluck those eyebrows a little bit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So

so

he's officially later declared the I-70 killer.

Wow.

Yeah.

So this guy, during the time,

during the stretch, during the search of his property,

he herb disappears, herb.

Herb.

Do you know why I did that?

And I feel like I knew I was going to do that at some point is because when I was a kid, I called herbs herbs, and my mom yelled at me for it.

So it's a trickery.

So now I see the word herb, and I'm like, don't fuck that up, but it's herb.

Jesus.

So many issues on the table tonight.

You wouldn't expect.

Never even, you wouldn't expect it.

We look so normal and unreal.

So they arrested herb.

Herb.

So he disappears from the place he's staying out of town when he finds out they're searching his property.

He was at Lake Wawase in Cosico-Cico County,

where we'll be touring next.

Then he entered.

What?

Thank you.

Then he enters.

Yes, now it's perfectly clear.

Thank you.

I learned in Oregon not to repeat what's the name because I got it wrong again and everyone just yelled it louder.

Oh my god, that was so good.

Do you remember the name of that city?

Fuck no.

It's tough.

It was hard, though.

Okay, so he is, he,

okay, he goes out of town and he goes into Canada on June 30th.

He ends up in Grand Bend, Ontario, and there at Pinery Park on the evening of July 3rd, Herb writes a suicide note attributing his decision to kill himself to his failing business and irreparable marriage.

But no, doesn't mention the skeletons of the dead men.

That's okay.

No, it's because his marriage sucks.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

His final words on the three-page suicide note said that he he would now eat a peanut butter sandwich which was his favorite snack and then go to sleep he even apologized for messing up the park then he put a

375 magnum 0.375 magnum i don't know guns revolver barrel

i don't know i don't know percentages he put 375 guns into his mouth

Just to be sure.

But he didn't.

That's herb.

Yeah.

He puts it to his forehead.

He pulls the trigger.

His body is found eight days later.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Got us.

You know what's some hikers going?

That's what's that smell?

It's always what's that smell?

Yeah.

And what are all those flies doing up there?

Yeah.

Yeah.

The evening before he died, a Canadian trooper stopped him to ask him why he was sleeping in his car.

To ask him why the long face.

I'm sorry.

Hey, why the peanut butter sandwich and the long face?

Quit messing up this part.

Before letting him go, she notices some luggage in the back and what looked like a pile of videotapes in his back seat.

But when they find his car, no signs of the videotapes.

They're never recovered.

Police suspect he threw them into a river before he went and killed himself.

I hope so.

Virgil Vandegriff said, well, these videotapes of the murders he committed,

were these the videotapes of the murders he committed in the pool at Fox Hollow Farms?

We'll never know.

And perhaps it's for the best.

But then.

You have to play Virgil Grandebro.

Clearly.

Thank you.

Okay, really quickly, then of course I fucking looked in the email.

Sorry, you guys, my allergies are weird.

You know, the city.

Okay.

Hey, Georgia and Karen.

I started your podcast months ago and been meaning to send you my hometown murder, but I'm so fucking forgetful and lazy, I never got around to it until now.

Hey, hi.

I'm from a small city of Westfield, Indiana, and have lived here my whole life.

My hometown murder starts when I was around 10, and I used to hang out with my friend about six.

Out of the seven days of a week for the summers, I lived there.

Something, I was thrilled to find out that they moved to a beautiful farmhouse about a mile away from where I lived.

No, no, no.

Oh, no, it's not.

It's not that.

It's not.

It's totally that.

Trick you.

Not only because this house was a hop, skip, and a jump away from my house.

I love that, but it was fucking insane.

They had acres of land where their newly purchased horses roamed, a giant mansion, an oddly rememberable indoor pool where we spent most of our time.

Oh, really?

And what about the ghosts that were there with you?

Well,

I never got a creepy or eerie feeling about the house until I was older and started noticing odd things, such as the secret room behind my friend's bathroom mirror.

Say it again.

Say it again.

What's this you say?

I never got a creepy or eerie feeling about about the house until I was older and started noticing all things about the secret room behind my friend's bathroom mirror.

Oh, room behind a mirror?

And then you go into the room face first through a mirror?

It just said murder room.

Face first into him.

Or maybe the fact that we found, quote, animal bones in the backyard.

Uh-oh.

Our parents freaked out a little more than I thought they would.

But it wasn't until I was watching a local network when I found out that the very house my friend lived in, Fox Hollow Farms, was previously owned by a Serge Killer.

My parents obviously knew, but kept it from me because of my age.

Apparently,

and then she says, killed them in the indoor swimming pool.

I didn't realize.

Don't worry, it doesn't stop there.

He continued to burn them in the fireplace and buried them in the backyard.

So he burned them

in his fireplace.

Which I didn't find that info anywhere else.

It's a pretty interesting story if you guys ever have time to read it,

which I know you won't.

It says that.

So negative.

Yeah, well, that's all I have.

Love the podcast.

If you're ever in Indianapolis, maybe we can take a tour of the farm.

SSDGM, Maddie.

That's her

Baumeister.

Baumeister.

Way to go, Indianapolis.

I mean, that is...

There is a

ghost hunters or a haunting.

There's an episode of one of those shows, and that's the first time I heard of this story.

Yeah.

And it is such a bummer because

everything else is bad.

Real time, how it happened, the fact that it was like just a marginalized group of people who were like, oh, it's not a problem that these men are disappearing.

All those things.

The fact that people, you know, these murderers get away with killing people.

And then he gets to just kill himself and never have to deal with any of it.

Never talks about it.

That's frustrating.

Then mannequins, indoor pools, as we've talked about.

Behind the mirror rooms.

Behind the, I mean, then on top of it, ghosts.

Then you fucking fold some ghost feelings inside there.

I want to thank this fucking town because sometimes we'll go to a city and I'm like, I don't know.

Like, I've done every Chicago murder.

I don't know what else to do.

At this town, I was like, oh my god,

this is

like it felt like a gift that was given to me.

I get to tell everybody about Earth.

Yeah.

Thank you, Indianapolis.

So that's, that was amazing.

It was so good.

Yeah.

Thank you.

I didn't mean like that was amazing, Georgia.

Even if you don't clap, we're going to be like, that was fucking incredible and standing innovation work.

Can I show you?

Georgia font.

Let's see it.

Dude, that is gorgeous.

Thank you.

It's so clear.

Thank you.

It's so not convoluted like I am.

What was in the room behind the mirror, and why wouldn't wouldn't you just put a secret door instead of, how do you get into a room that's behind a mirror?

Is there another door besides the mirror?

Yeah.

Like a full-length fucking mirror in a different room?

Does it have to be mirrors?

Are you a warlock of some kind?

Is there anyone that knows the answers?

Yeah.

Who built that mirror for him?

Did they come over and like, sure?

Yep.

He was like, it's for my mannequin.

It's my mannequin room.

My mannequin asked if they could have a secret room behind the mirror.

And I was like, you know what?

It's your birthday.

Yes, you get this.

And the builder's like, okay, yeah, sounds legit.

Great.

Let's do it.

Here's my bill.

Everything's cool.

You get to live your life.

Okay, we're back.

Are there updates for this story?

There are.

Nearly three decades after the death of serial killer Herb Baumeister, the victims are still being identified.

As of this year, there are at least 25 victims suspected to have been buried at Fox Hollow.

25.

25.

It's a small-town cemetery.

Yeah.

Wild.

More victims were identified in 2023 and 24, thanks to renewed efforts by Hamilton County Coroner Jeff Jellison, who used new DNA technology to identify the thousands of human bones and bone fragments found on Baumeister's property.

Good.

This enabled them to identify additional victims, including Alan Livingston, who I mentioned, Manuel Resendez, Jeffrey Allen Jones, who went by Jeff, who was also mentioned.

And then earlier this year, Hulu released a four-part docuseries called The Fox Hollow Murders, Playground of a Serial Killer that explores a theory that Baumeister had an accomplice.

And there's actually still a phone number to call to contact the Hamilton County Coroner's Office if you think you need to arrange a DNA sample for a loved one who went missing all the way back then.

And God, I just, I still think about his children and I hope they're well.

It's so wildly dark and scary.

And continuing on, the idea that they're still investigating in that way, where it's like, is this possible that one person could have gotten all this done?

Just reapproaching it constantly to be like, what is the real answer of what happened here?

At least they're doing that.

Well, you know what?

It reminds me so much, and maybe it's just because I'm reading a book about it right now, and there was just a new documentary about it.

But the Dean Coral,

you know, candyman killing

the same thing where he was dead.

So they kind of have to uncover all this information through his accomplices and just whatever information like they're still identifying bodies it's just like how does it happen

how does it happen and go on for so long that then the after effect goes on for i mean for baumeiston 30 years they're still working on that because it was

ignored and it was marginalized group right it was like this doesn't matter and a wolf in sheep's clothing

it's so gross okay the book is called the serial killer's apprentice it's really good about the candy man yeah and there's a documentary about it.

Okay.

Well, now we have a hometown story from the live show about the barbecue murders from audience members Taylor and Rebecca.

Uh-huh.

Wow.

Yeah.

Do you think that we

have time?

Yes, and

here's the cool part, and this is on our system.

We've got a story.

You tweeted at us today or yesterday, and I need to hear the story about the girl who dressed up in her murdered cousin's clothes.

That's coming out wrong.

Someone put her into clothes.

What's that?

Did the girl that's about to come up here dress in her murdered clothes?

Let's let her explain it.

I see her there.

Okay.

Come around this way.

Come around this way, and then army roll.

Army crawl.

Which just happened.

Let's bring out our hometown lady.

Where are you?

Thank you.

Oh, hi.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Hi, what's your name?

You probably know that.

Taylor.

Taylor.

We don't need all that.

And I'm Rebecca.

Hi, Rebecca.

We don't need it.

Do you guys want to get up on this like backup singers?

Yeah.

Fun.

Here, we can just.

Taylor and Rebecca, explain that tweet so that people understand.

What's your name?

Noah.

What's going on?

Mrs.

Noah making it all happen for us.

Sound-wise.

Thank you.

Here, talking to.

Thanks, Noah.

Thank you.

Okay, well, this doesn't work.

Use it anyway.

Show business.

So I sent the tweet out, but it's her story.

Get out of here.

It had to be told.

It's too creepy and weird.

Are you guys related?

No.

No, we work together.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

So I actually sent this in as an email, and I was telling Becca about it, and she was like, no, no, no, no, you have to.

You have to tell this story.

So

this actually happened before I was born.

My mom was actually pregnant with me.

and

I am from one of those families in like southern Indiana who has like

all of these cousins they're not actually cousins they're just like through marriage or like your parents are really close friends or whatever yeah it's easier and

we have that in California too it's called having friends

I have

I called them my cousins but at the time there was Jamie who was like four and Sherry Lynn who was about a year and a half old, and their parents had just gotten divorced.

Their dad was in the Navy, and he was stationed in Pearl Harbor.

And he got custody of the kids after the divorce, whatever, whatever.

Took the kids off to Pearl Harbor, and one day he was like, Sherry Lynn's missing.

She's gone.

Is she the older one or the younger one?

She's the younger one.

She's like a year and a half old.

Okay.

And she's like, she's gone.

I don't know what happened.

I went out.

I met this woman.

I brought her back.

And then I just noticed that she was gone.

So like two days later,

I happened to notice that my children weren't there anymore.

So two days later, they found a body in Pearl Harbor in a duffel bag that was just like floating along, you know, Hawaii.

And Sherry Lynn is inside, and

so

he claims that

he doesn't know what's happened.

And then this woman comes forward, and she was like, I was the woman he took home that night.

She wouldn't stop crying, and he was like, Oh, just ignore the baby.

This is fine.

We can, you know, like still have our time together.

Yeah, let's still make out

crying.

Right, yeah, yeah.

And she was like, No, this is like really fucking weird, man.

I don't want to like kiss you while your baby's crying.

And so she left.

And

so, what eventually happened is that he got really mad and

strangled the baby and was like, I don't know what to do with this body, so let's just like put it in like a national monument.

No one's gonna find it.

That's right.

And so

they, it was actually kind of the same thing.

Like he was acquitted with

like a regular jury, but then like the Navy.

Remember, I don't know what story that was.

Yes.

Don't remember.

Yeah, NPIS, yeah.

The department doesn't fuck around with stuff like that.

After you're asked.

So he went to jail and

they're doing this investigation.

My mom is like 9 and 10,000 months pregnant with me at the time.

And the FBI like bursts into her work and is like, What do you know about this?

And she's like, I'm just a little pregnant woman.

I have no clue what you're talking about.

Oh my gosh.

Oh, that old story.

Yeah, so

he ends up going to jail for like 15 years.

And when he gets out, the first thing he does is he comes back to Indiana and he visits the grave.

And I had like family members who were there at the time.

And he just awkwardly walked up and was like, hey guys, like, oh,

can you GTA?

Yeah, like, this is really awkward and then he's never been seen again like we yeah we've never seen him again but I had an aunt who kept all of her clothes and every year when I had like my pictures at like three four five six oh my god they put me in her clothes until I was like too big anymore why why why why

who would do that and they just get to this age and they're gonna have to buy their own clothes and they're like why because she also looks like her

so there's there's a set of like two pictures where you can't really tell who's who because we're in the same clothes.

It's like a VC Andrews novel.

What the fuck?

Wow, that's fucked up.

I wish we could put a photo of right now.

I know, I wish.

I tried to find one, and I emailed my mom yesterday, and she was like, Yeah, dude, we don't look at those.

They're scary.

Your mom's like, dude.

What is wrong with you?

Yeah, exactly.

As most of our family does.

Yeah, my family's pretty messed up.

Wow, that's a good one.

That's a good one.

Taylor, you guys take this one.

Thank you so much.

Well done.

Good job.

Very awesome.

You guys did this.

Good job.

Thank you.

And a little bag.

Yeah.

From the dollar store.

Oh!

It's shared on the Facebook page, but the little bag's from the dollar store.

Oh, shit.

It's a like top secret official report, and it talks about a fake arson.

It's like an evidence bag.

Yeah.

That's fucking good.

It looks super cute.

What's inside?

What's my clutch for the night?

So I have tissues and bobby pins.

Can I have a tissue pin?

I love sharing.

Yeah, Georgia needs those.

Thank you so much.

You can have two.

Awesome.

Just one.

Oh, okay.

Do you have any gum or anything?

Yes, I have some gum.

Oh, yeah, I'll take that whole pin.

Hi.

Thank you.

Nice to meet you.

Good job.

Thank you so much.

I'm not a hugger.

Yeah.

Too bad I don't have Pockies.

Yeah.

Next time, next time.

That was perfect.

You guys, that was so awesome.

Thank you so much.

Yay.

That was good.

See, we can make mistakes and then we can make good on them.

And we can steal gum and tissue.

We can steal gum and we can have what we want.

Let people tell the worst story of all time.

And that's what this is all about.

It's us getting what we want.

That's right.

Over and over in the most horrible way.

That was a tough hometown.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And there's no updates for the case.

So.

So we have to just move on to the titles, even though it feels inappropriate.

Right.

But I mean, that's what happens sometimes when people have their hand up and they want to talk about something.

Sure.

That's what we want them to be able to do if that's what they want.

Yeah.

And get it out.

And I think that's what I do love about our audience: the audience gets exactly what's happening and is supportive.

It's their show.

It's their show.

And they're just like, yep, we're here for all of it, good and bad.

Totally.

Yeah, it's very meaningful.

So this episode was originally titled Live at the Egyptian Room.

If we were naming it today,

maybe we would call it.

I use Georgia.

I use Georgia.

I don't know why that was like such a revelation, like an embarrassing thing to admit.

It was the first time you publicly admitted that you use the font, Georgia?

Of course I do.

To this day, I still use it.

And Molly, our producer, can confirm that I asked for my scripts in Georgia.

I just, I like the way it looks.

She loves a mirror.

Also,

there's also too many nouns.

Yeah, always.

Which is us being suspicious of Belle's Gunnis's explanation of her dead husband, Peter's accident.

Got to keep it simple.

If we've taught people anything over the years.

is that it?

How to lie?

How to lie?

And then, of course, triflers need not apply.

Always need that one.

Yeah, it's a classic.

All right.

Well, thanks for listening, you guys.

We're going to say goodbye from the Egyptian room.

Thank you for listening.

Yes, goodbye.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you guys.

Indianapolis, we love you.

This has been really awesome.

What a great show.

What an awesome audience.

Really?

We would love it if you would stay sexy and don't get murdered.

Bye, you guys.

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