Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 31: Namaste Sexy

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Speaker 1 Hello

Speaker 1 and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. Because you see, every Wednesday, we take the time to recap our old episodes for you, but we add all new commentary, we add updates, and we add insights.

Speaker 1 Mm. And today we're recapping episode 31, which we named Namaste Sexy.
Such a good name. So good.
So now join us as we take you back to August 25th, 2016.

Speaker 1 And now you can be a day one listener just like we are. So let's listen to the intro of episode 31.

Speaker 1 Well, it doesn't matter if you're ready, Stephen.

Speaker 1 Like the real us is just be rating Stephen. Stephen includes a seven-second

Speaker 1 just me ringing him before the episode.

Speaker 1 It's like a,

Speaker 1 what's it called? When you're a hostage and you're like trying to send a message to the outside world. Yeah.

Speaker 1 that's all stockholm syndrome stockholder yeah that's right stephen has really bad stockholm syndrome um evil we are uh starting now

Speaker 1 karen

Speaker 1 my favorite murder karen

Speaker 1 karen i'm just gonna yell your name karen georgia karen karen georgia we started the podcast How do you feel so far?

Speaker 1 Quack, I can't stop. I'm great.
How are you?

Speaker 1 I don't know if you've ever asked me how it was like that. How are are you?

Speaker 1 How are you, really? How are you?

Speaker 1 Let's have a moment of vulnerability. I feel a lot of anxiety about,

Speaker 1 gosh,

Speaker 1 so many things.

Speaker 1 You know, that weird Wednesday feeling? We're recording this on Wednesday.

Speaker 1 Will we get up in time?

Speaker 1 You know, job stuff. I drink too much coffee all day.
Oh, you did? Am I drinking too much Diet Coke to the point where I'm killing myself? How many do you drink? Decoke? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's only like 23 a day.

Speaker 1 I like that every episode now, you have to admit, like you have to confess something you do. That's like, because you had smoked, told us you smoked cigarettes last time.
I mean, I very rarely.

Speaker 1 It's not like I wouldn't call that, it's not a thing. It's just, that's like my secret sneak away once in a while.
I think you're in denial. I know.
What's your big reveal? Oh,

Speaker 1 what's a good one? What's a good one? It's a fun one. I have adult acne.
Okay. That sucks.

Speaker 1 I can relate to that yeah i don't like that um that's about it that's all you're willing to know i mean my life is a oap i have nothing that i hide i feel like that's i think people can um it helps people lock in to our humanity yeah when we're just sitting here going you know gross disgusting horrible humanity check out this hideousness and they have a make it a podcast gross it better be a podcast i don't want to look at it

Speaker 1 We're getting a lot of, what is very enjoyable. And of course, feeding the ego.
A lot of people are doing like fan art pictures

Speaker 1 things of us, which

Speaker 1 the thing I enjoy the most

Speaker 1 is

Speaker 1 they always give me a huge nose. I don't think I have a huge nose.
Do they? You don't have a huge nose. I think I have a pretty buttony nose.
You have a cute little button nose. I mean, thank you.

Speaker 1 I just wanted you to say that.

Speaker 1 I've noticed, yeah, I have a large jaw in them, which I actually have an undersized jaw, hence my Invisaligne. That's right.
But thank you. But you know what? But thank you.

Speaker 1 We're the most ungrateful assholes of all time.

Speaker 1 Here, we have a couple notes.

Speaker 1 Can you draw us better, please? Draw me.

Speaker 1 I know it's lots more. Listen, if you want to make it onto instagram.com/slash my favorite murder, you got to draw us true to life.
There are some really good ones

Speaker 1 of us, really awesome drawings. Yeah.
Where like you look at it and go, oh my God, this looks like we have a comic book. Yeah.
Which is super cool. So thank you so much.

Speaker 1 You're fucking backpedaling so hard right now. I know.
I'm embarrassed. Don't be.
Go to go to the Instagram and you'll see a bunch of like we post that shit. We post all of them.

Speaker 1 We post everything that we see and find that you guys send us. I love it all.
A lot of people made us

Speaker 1 new logos that say the fuck word murder mystery show, which we really love and appreciate. That was

Speaker 1 great. That was good times.
Yeah. And also, I just wanted to mention on the Twitter page,

Speaker 1 we got

Speaker 1 quote, a million shout outs from Sweden.

Speaker 1 These guys who have a podcast called the Power Meeting Podcast sent us a tweet that said a million shout outs from Sweden, which I didn't know until I read it that that's all I've ever wanted in my life.

Speaker 1 It was a million shout outs from Sweden. Also, Australia loves us.
Fuck yeah, Australia. We were number five in Australia.
That's amazing. That's a big, that's a big place, right?

Speaker 1 They must not be about accuracy down there because I feel like everything I've ever said about Australia on this podcast has been deeply wrong.

Speaker 1 Well, we did an Australian murder once, so maybe that's why. Oh, that's right.
They like love us for doing that. There's some good ones there.
There are some amazing ones.

Speaker 1 Yours was, it was the son who washed his clothes before he did anything. Yeah, he murdered.
He went on a paper route, murdered his fucking family. Blamed his dad, washed his clothes.

Speaker 1 Or was that New Zealand? Fuck. No, I think it was Australia.
Watch the numbers plummet. Oh, my God.
Why did I even bring this up? I don't know. I brought it up.
Oh, okay. This is all your.

Speaker 1 Oh, also, we got a tweet from Glitter Pizza 91. God bless your heart that said,

Speaker 1 why not at the end of every murder, why don't you ring a gong? Which I read out of context, just read as a random tweet, and it made me laugh very hard. Then I understood.

Speaker 1 I saw a bunch of other tweets that said, what's that noise? What's What's that creepy, spooky noise that we keep hearing? And it was, we got, Stephen set us up with these awesome mic stands.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they look like what you see, like real radio people using. So we don't have to like touch our mics and make noise anymore.

Speaker 1 But what we did was we touched the mic stands and we were making the springs. Because I can't sit still.
Right? Is that super loud? That's it. It's perfect.
Okay. Yeah.
I mean, the sound.

Speaker 1 Listen, I have ADD, I think. Right.
At least that's what my psychiatrist tells me. Okay.
I can't fucking fucking sit still. I want to move around.
I know.

Speaker 1 But it's, you know, I'm going to sacrifice that for the podcast. Well, we really appreciate it.
Thank you. I'm going to speak for everybody.
Thank you. Eva buttons and myself.
Eva button nose.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Like two eyes made out of coal.

Speaker 1 Oh, we also had our, we just ended our last t-shirt sales and we are giving half the money to endthebacklog.org. Nice.
How much is that? Do I say?

Speaker 1 Because what if it's like, that's not, what if they're like this? Well, it was just a one-month sale, right? We're sending two grand to endthebacklog.org. That's great, right? That's good.

Speaker 1 That's two more than they fucking had before.

Speaker 1 I got so freaked out when I posted like, hey, we're going to get 50% to end the backlog because I expected people, this is the opposite of what happened, but I expected people to be like, only 50%?

Speaker 1 You're just being so, you're being so greedy. And then all these people are like, that's so incredible.
I'm like, oh, okay. Like, I'm just being hard on myself.
Yes. I mean, I think.

Speaker 1 It's just weird to be in this position where you can actually put something out, have people buy it, and then actually give money. That's like a neat, cool thing, but also we've never done it before.

Speaker 1 So everything feels wrong and bad and weird. Is there anything else that you love right now?

Speaker 1 Anything going on in the news? We know John Bonnet's brothers get, oh, did you watch you and I both looked at each other at the exact same moment watching that trailer? That John Bonet

Speaker 1 DocU series trailer. We have to watch it together.
I insist you watch it. Can I tell you something? What? A magazine wants us to do a recap every night of it.
That's awesome. I know.

Speaker 1 The trailer gave me freaking chills. Okay.
We watched the trailer at work today. Oh my God.
I love the people I work with because they're super into shit like this, too.

Speaker 1 And when it got to the part, trailer spoiler,

Speaker 1 when it got to the part where they have reconstructed

Speaker 1 Ramsey's house. The room by room recreated.
Down to the detail of shit that was like leaning against the walls. Life changing.

Speaker 1 These people are going, these, these investigators, these, these very qualified people from all walks of

Speaker 1 criminal forensicness,

Speaker 1 criminality, criminality. They're going to be able to walk through and talk about and restage things that happened.
Do you think they'll come to a conclusion?

Speaker 1 It clearly in the trailer, you can tell that they're going to, they're like, yeah, there was no, this is not an outside job, motherfuckers. I mean, that's what they're leading you to believe.

Speaker 1 That's true. But,

Speaker 1 and and then like oh they're oh when they played the um when she hung up the phone and you can hear her in the background

Speaker 1 i still don't hear it do you have you listened to that you mean when they say like they reduced all the sound yeah and they hear her say i'm not talking to you yes i still don't hear it do you No, but I feel like that's almost like one of those ghost investigation things where they're like, do you hear it?

Speaker 1 And then they put the subtitles and you're like, I guess I hear it. If you want me to hear it, I'll hear it.
Totally. I'll hear whatever you want.
Yeah. My thing was,

Speaker 1 because everybody at my job everybody pointed out like the thing that freaked them out or that they liked the most and mine was that when patsy ramsey said i love that child she did it with her eyes closed

Speaker 1 that was the creepiest part is both of them being both of them speaking was so fucking eerie yeah and two camera like basically clearly some lawyer said you have to go out there and tell these people you didn't kill your daughter and you have to make a statement and when patsy ramsey said i didn't kill my daughter and then she closes her eyes and goes i love that child And then they stay closed.

Speaker 1 Like to me, that I just love those, like, that means something. I don't know what it means.
Also, saying that child means something. Because it's like, she's not saying my daughter, John Bonnet.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's like not child. Yeah.
I just love that child. She can't take, take ownership of the thing.

Speaker 1 Remember, did you ever watch the show Lie to Me with Tim Roth where it was all about the person that read micro expressions and it was like a whole company? No.

Speaker 1 Oh, I know someone who worked on it that I dated, so I didn't watch it.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, because you were mad. No, he was very nice.
Oh,

Speaker 1 I didn't want to step on his toe. I just love that show because that's kind of stuff of like being able to interpret what people are really doing underneath how they mask.

Speaker 1 When they point it out and they're like, would they like pause it and be like, this thing right here? And that thing. Oh, I love that.
Yeah, yeah. You should watch that show.
It's pretty good.

Speaker 1 I don't know if it's on anything, but. Okay, well.

Speaker 1 Did you catch up on the night of? We've only got one episode left. I got to say, you're out.

Speaker 1 Everyone telling me about stuff about it and talking to other people people about it has made me want to watch it less you're so fucking punk rock georgia i swear to god you're just like you mean mean right now no i i mean it in that way of like you're just like you know what i don't have to like it if you like it it's a good way to be i respect it

Speaker 1 but i think that's how i think that's what it is where you're like does everybody like it then everybody can well what everyone's telling me about it thank you that actually means a lot to me um but what everyone's telling me about it is like i i don't care about the prison stuff i want the trial stuff.

Speaker 1 And from whatever, someone said to me, someone was like, and I'm not going to take responsibility, but I don't remember who said it was like, listen, I watched Orange is a new black.

Speaker 1 I don't need to know what's going on in prison. Like, I was like,

Speaker 1 so did I. It's totally the same.
It's totally the same. I just like, I don't, I want to know the, the, the, the way that they find out how the investigation goes, how the trial goes.

Speaker 1 Stuff in prison, I don't care about. Right.
I, you know what, I feel the same way because I find, and this is, you're going to, this is going to blow your mind. I find prison to be really depressing.

Speaker 1 So I don't want to know. Like,

Speaker 1 I fear going there. Who hurt you as a child? I know.

Speaker 1 Prisoner. It was a warden.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't. Like, I know it's living hell.
And there are many, many people in this country that are there. Yeah.
And that's awful to me.

Speaker 1 Especially people are there that like, oh, it was really hard for me to watch them get taken in to get on. What's it called when you get processed in? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Cause it's like, no one gives a shit about you. And like immediately are just trash, yeah.

Speaker 1 Like the way you know, when you wait in line at a post office and you get to the next teller, and you can tell they've had a hard day and they fucking hate everything, so you can smile and be like, Hi, and they can be nice, and so they'll give you a better experience and be happier.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like you can't do that in prison. What am I supposed to do? I didn't learn to be polite for nothing.

Speaker 1 It's like, I mean, and it is like we talk a lot, we talk a big game about like send them away for because we talk about these specific stories where people cut off 15-year-old girls' arms and leave them to die and these horrible cases.

Speaker 1 And of course, you want Larry Singleton to disappear from the planet, but the reality of a human being in a prison is a nightmare.

Speaker 1 And like, and so I'm not saying I'm not a hypocrite or that I can't rectify those two things, but it's, yeah, watching it.

Speaker 1 What I love in that show is that they're laying in, it's just really good writing. And I really like to watch good writing.
It makes me feel smart. And again, I'll say it for the millionth time:

Speaker 1 Riz Ahmed. Oh, my God.
I don't. Someone made a, made a, I want his DNA inside me.
A couple people made it. Someone made a Valentine last last week.
I said, you're serial killer Valentine. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I said, I want his DNA inside me, meaning I want to have his baby because he's so cute that I want like that.

Speaker 1 It just didn't sound like that. No, it's literally the most not cute kind of disgusting thing, but that's not what you meant.

Speaker 1 Okay, you know what I I don't like about I don't like innocent people in prison. That I people like Larry Singleton deserve to be in prison.

Speaker 1 Good, have a fucking horrible time, but innocent people, oh my god, that terrifies me. It's horrible, and it happens, and we all know what happens, and it's incredibly stressful.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, all right, but I like it. It's to me, it's worth the stress, and there's things that are happening that are exciting.
I won't not try it, it does disappoint me.

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't know what happened. Maybe I'll watch the last episode.
Is that okay? Can I do that? Hey, it's your life. Jump in, jump out.
I don't know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Can they please bring the family back on abc

Speaker 1 that's all i ask is that all you want this christmas that's all i want for hanukkah christmas all right i think that's it right

Speaker 1 it's gotta be

Speaker 1 i got nothing yeah is this are we now 45 minutes in basically i'm first this weekend okay go tell me i am mine is short too so take your time

Speaker 1 Okay, we are back from the intro. Karen, remember when podcasts used to just be audio and you could wear whatever you want, you could sit however you want.
You just do you.

Speaker 1 Like, I think that's really where that saying came from is in podcasts in 2016.

Speaker 1 It was a beautiful, glorious time of just being you. Do you think we would have started a podcast if we had known that video would have been, was like.

Speaker 1 I certainly, I can give you my answer before I finish the sentence. Fuck no.
Are you kidding?

Speaker 1 A middle-aged TV writer being like, yeah, let me get in there and make some clips and make make some content for, what is it, Gen Alpha? No, thanks. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, the one positive thing I can think of about it all is that I'm learning a lot of new makeup tips and tricks,

Speaker 1 which I didn't think I would do so later, like late in life. I thought I'd gotten them all down, you know? But now you're what? What are you getting? What are you doing?

Speaker 1 Now my face is falling and so I have to like do different things to it. I'm in.

Speaker 1 I'm in. What tricks have you learned?

Speaker 1 That how to stop your face looking like it's fucking falling what's the trick i don't know bronzer i think it's bronzer and then it's also like some kind of weird eyeshadow thing yep you know just layering layers and layers of makeup that'll do it yeah like make shadows if they don't exist essentially yeah no it's been a nightmare like i not a nightmare it's great i'm lucky but like i've gotten all my filler dissolved because like you can see the bumps on the video like i can totally see everything that's wrong now I mean, I feel like we've never been strangers to our own flaws and foibles.

Speaker 1 And then, yeah, it's just a new way of, it's a fun thing.

Speaker 1 And it's like where podcasting's going. It's just kind of like the option that you need to give people.
But it definitely is distracting. Yeah.
And it distracts the mind. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 As we perform. Do you know us, though? We, you know, we change along with the times.
Like, we are with it. That's what we like to do.
Right now, this show is not on video.

Speaker 1 So I'm wearing just a towel on my head just for just got out of the bathtub.

Speaker 1 I'm literally wearing a shirt that says bullshit on it really big.

Speaker 1 And this is what we're doing.

Speaker 1 That's it. All right.
Well, I like how in that we just did a new intro because there wasn't that much going on in this intro.

Speaker 1 Some of our old intros are just chock full of insanity, but this mostly is like that we are so stoked to only be audio. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then me loving the night of

Speaker 1 and you so much. No, we that was a long-running discussion or topic of discussion in this podcast.

Speaker 1 I think it was like a first because I I remember, and tell me if I'm wrong, when we first talked about the night of, we had both watched it like unplanned, right?

Speaker 1 So that it was like, oh, did you see it was that feeling? Yeah, and then I lost interest,

Speaker 1 but you know, Riza Med kept doing it for you. It was such a good show.
It was. All right.
Well, should we get into your story and also like the reason this episode's called Namaste Sexy? Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Okay. Let's hear Karen's story from this episode 31 about the Lululemon murder.
Or as I liked to say back then, not on purpose, Lou Laman.

Speaker 1 Here we go.

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Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Mine is,

Speaker 1 I wish I had four months to research this because the first time I heard of this murder, I thought, oh, who cares?

Speaker 1 Not about the people, but that's not my style.

Speaker 1 as we've said a million times, but like Silence of the Lambs is my ideal murder everything situation. You've got a weird serial killer that's got a, an MO and a

Speaker 1 whole

Speaker 1 plan and a creepiness. Yeah.
And I like

Speaker 1 has always been this crazy way. It's not like he's.

Speaker 1 It's not a one-off. It's not a crime of passion.
It's not whatever. That's, I find that extreme criminal mind thing fascinating.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So when I first heard about this crime, I was like, oh, that's not, that's not my thing at all.

Speaker 1 And then, but it kept coming back like you, I would see it every once in a while looking for other stuff. And then I finally started looking into it, and it is so fascinating.
All right.

Speaker 1 So it's the Lululemon murder. Oh, yes.
In Bethesda, Maryland. That is fascinating.
I didn't know that. I know.
That is definitely not one that I would have

Speaker 1 looked into. Okay.
I'm excited. Me too.
Thanks.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I first heard of it, I think it was like a year ago or something. I was doing Tignotaro's.
Tignotaro has a comedy festival every year called the Benson Ball in DC, which is where she's from.

Speaker 1 And so, whoever was driving us to the theater that night, we drove down the street and we passed a Lululemon.

Speaker 1 I don't think it was the one we were driving by because Bethesda, I believe, is north of Washington, D.C.

Speaker 1 But he brought it up and told the story. Love him.
And he basically just said, Oh, did you hear about that really terrible crime that happened at Lululemon?

Speaker 1 It was really bad. You know,

Speaker 1 and it was basically one of the employees killed another one. And so I was just like,

Speaker 1 you know what? I know now we're talking yoga pants. We're talking karma passion.
I'm not interested in any of this. For anyone listening that doesn't know, Lululemon is a fucking high-end

Speaker 1 kind of when I see girls wearing yoga pants with Lululemon. I'm like, oh, you spent a lot of money on yoga pants and didn't buy them a right-aid.
Yeah. You're better than me.
Crazy expensive. Like,

Speaker 1 they're almost, it's, it's like Louis Vuitton of yoga pants, which is a hilarious paradox of this is yoga. Yeah, um, and they have like the like uh logo out so you can see them.

Speaker 1 Oh, hell yeah, you know what I mean? Yes, instead of hiding your shame,

Speaker 1 they put it out there, right? So, when I first Googled this, a couple of Huffington Post articles came up, and one that I really liked is by a girl named, believe it or not, Elizabeth Licorice.

Speaker 1 And great, that's my gosh, she wins, yeah, and she's amazing, she's all red, and her skin is twisted.

Speaker 1 No, no. Cancel it.
Stephen Mark. Delete that.
Delete that. Stephen Mark, that concept.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. So she wrote an article called Lululemon's Cult Culture: Get Fit or Die Trying.

Speaker 1 So this girl started working at Lululemon. That's how you pronounce it, right? Lululemon? Yeah.
I don't give a fucking shit.

Speaker 1 It sounds right. It's how it's spelled, and that's what I assumed.
And then

Speaker 1 Lulamon. I think it's Lulamon.
Lou, but there's an extra

Speaker 1 Lou Lamon would be there's too many Lou's all right so I think it's

Speaker 1 let's call it let's not give a shit okay all right so I think you're right I think you're right it has this girl worked there and so she's talking about what a creepy um like culture this business has, which is very funny because like when I worked at the gap in the 90s and I only worked there for a year, I really hated it.

Speaker 1 But it is this thing where they want you as a person that's getting paid shit and mostly working part-time so they don't have to give you full-time benefits and all that stuff.

Speaker 1 But they still want you to really dig care about,

Speaker 1 yeah, this

Speaker 1 culture, the retail culture of like, and if you sell this, you'll get this. And we have to get our numbers up here.
Meanwhile, Don Fisher, the owner at the time, was making like billions of dollars.

Speaker 1 Fuck you. I hate that.
It's it's so I can see where that was in the 90s. It's now, you know, 20 years later, and they have refined this this concept.

Speaker 1 So it's like branding and marketing and, you know, lifestyle choices. And it's all that kind of thing.
I bet it's the kind of thing where they don't call you an employee.

Speaker 1 They call you like a team member or whatever the fuck. The thigh master.

Speaker 1 So this girl, yeah, this girl worked there and talked about,

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 1 she said, Lululemon wants you to know it's elevating the world from mediocrity to greatness and creating components for people to live long, healthy, and fun lives.

Speaker 1 But if you dig deeper, you find about. Yeah, you can't do that and fucking pants about a target.
Come on, man. No, no, no.
No, you have to get really superficial to rise above media.

Speaker 1 But if you dig deeper, you'll find, you'll learn about Landmark Forum. Oh, no, they don't.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Which is the ultra-secretive eerily cultish educational series, which Lululemon employees are strongly encouraged to attend. Shut up.

Speaker 1 Yes. Now, Lou, now I know, I have a friend who did Landmark Forum forum and is like, I believe in it.
I think it's great.

Speaker 1 And I said, Yeah, but isn't it a crazy pyramid scheme where you basically have to bring people in and you spend thousands of dollars? And he goes, Yeah, but I just didn't do that.

Speaker 1 Like, I got what I wanted and I left. And I'm like, Well, you're a strong-willed person,

Speaker 1 but I think it's one of those things that, like, it's like Est or anything that just makes money off of people kind of going, This is the answer to my life, and then trying to get everyone they know into it.

Speaker 1 So, oh, so sad. So, they encourage their employees to

Speaker 1 go to the landmark forum, which is bizarre to me. So bizarre.

Speaker 1 And before you're in line for landmark, you're bombarded with Brian Tracy motivational CDs and a book club that culminates with Atlas Shrugged. Oh, shit.

Speaker 1 So it's not, it's so culty. It's like, get that money and get yours and empowerment, but in this weird culty way, which also it's like, this is your job.
This is your retail job. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 they

Speaker 1 she said it all of it made walking into work feel like

Speaker 1 she was time traveling to Salem.

Speaker 1 Because with the Lululemon Creed and Catechism comes a collective mentality that thrives on scapegoats and leaves you feeling worthless if you subsist on anything but spring water and kale.

Speaker 1 Once another employee sneered at me from across the floor

Speaker 1 and said the soda I happened to be enjoying would rot me from the inside out. Eventually we were all issued reusable acrylic cups and forbidden to drink anything but water.
Oh my God, stop it.

Speaker 1 So, this is, I'm, I'm just trying to paint a little bit of a picture.

Speaker 1 And I really encourage, if you're slightly interested in this, to look up these articles because it's pretty fascinating how many directions that goes in.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that sounds like a fun read. Yeah.
Well, and just the intensity of a retail job. It's so sad.

Speaker 1 Like, it bums me out so much to think what people expect from you when they're not willing to give you any respect at all.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 Every about when you work there, everything about you is inventoried and measured in terms of authenticity and integrity, which sounds reasonable until you realize your yoga mat's on a sweaty, slippery slope.

Speaker 1 That missing your extra, that's this, I'm still reading the article, missing your extracurricular kickboxing class, taking too long to pee during your break, or falling to throw or failing to throw a kitchen party.

Speaker 1 And then she says in parentheses, don't ask. What?

Speaker 1 In the fitting room means you're deficient in character and devoid of morals. What's a kitchen party? I'm going to ask.
We have to find out.

Speaker 1 But it's like, I think it's in, you know, it's secret in-house language. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Those girls happen to just be older, sportier versions of seriously cutthroat sorority sisters. So that's one person's take about what it felt like to work there.

Speaker 1 So what's kind of to go along with that, that, this company's had a lot of controversy since they started. It's a Canadian company.
They opened in,

Speaker 1 I think, well, in 2002, to mark the opening of their second store in Vancouver,

Speaker 1 they offered a free outfit to anyone who would stand naked on the street for 30 seconds. Are you fucking

Speaker 1 for people who can't afford them and are homeless, you fucking assholes? But like also, so it's a store that's mostly women's clothing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And you're basically trying to get ladies to stand around naked so you give them their $140 yoga pants. That's so sad.
You're asking them to exploit themselves. Yeah.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 That same owner, I can't find his name right now.

Speaker 1 He, in an interview with the National Post Business magazine, which sounds very Canadian to me, but I'm not sure, he said he purposely named it Lululemon with lots of L's because, quote, it's funny to watch Japanese people try to smoke.

Speaker 1 He also once blogged that breast cancer, quote, came into prominence in the 1990s due to all the cigarette smoking power women who were on the pill and taking on the stress previously left to men and their wives.

Speaker 1 I am going to Lulu murder you, you piece of shit.

Speaker 1 Sorry, that guy's name. I'm trying to, oh, that guy's name is Chip Wilson.
And of course,

Speaker 1 later on, everybody heard about the,

Speaker 1 they, in, I think it was 2011.

Speaker 1 Oh, no, sorry, 2013, they had to recall their line of Luan yoga pants because they were see-through. I remember that? They were see-through.
I've seen girls G-strings from behind in yoga before.

Speaker 1 And then that same CEO,

Speaker 1 when he was interviewed on Bloomberg TV about it,

Speaker 1 he asked, he was asked what the nature of the pants recall was. He said, quite frankly, some women's bodies just don't work for it.

Speaker 1 It's more about the rubbing through the thighs, how much pressure there is over a period of time. You fucking dick.
So he's basically saying, if you're not emaciated, you can't wear our yoga pants.

Speaker 1 And if you do, it's your fault. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So he's a superstar. After he said that, of course, he was asked to step down from being the CEO because it's, you know, at the time, it was 2013.
So I'm sorry, sir, that it's not 1945 anymore.

Speaker 1 You can take that shit elsewhere. Yeah.

Speaker 1 In 2007, they had a line of clothing called Vita-C, S-E-A, which the company said was made from seaweed fiber.

Speaker 1 And according to the tags, they said it released marine amino acids, minerals, and vitamins into the skin upon contact with moisture. Did it stink?

Speaker 1 Did it stink? Reducing stress and providing anti-inflammatory, antibacterial, hydrating, and detoxifying benefits. Bullshit.
So the New York Times, that's exactly right.

Speaker 1 The New York Times commissioned a laboratory test

Speaker 1 of a shirt made from Vita-C,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 there was no significant difference in mineral levels between the Vitasy fabric and a plain cotton t-shirt. In other words, the labs found no evidence of seaweed in the William Lemon clothing at all.

Speaker 1 To do that, we're not done. In 2008, a mother and daughter found a hidden message in the shopping bag underneath a layer of inspirational quotes, such as friends are more important than money.

Speaker 1 Yeah, right. There was a second note

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 said, quote, some brief or quick fix incidence in

Speaker 1 some brief or quick fix incidences when our minds are clear to be creative are when drunk or stoned or just after an orgasm. What does that mean?

Speaker 1 Okay, so they're promoting being drunk or stoned or orgasm. Or having an orgasm so that you can be creative.
How did they? This is inside a yoga pants bag.

Speaker 1 So they had this, it turned out that they had printed this up initially. People saw it and were like, what the fuck are you doing here?

Speaker 1 Well, the other quotes were, the athlete's high is the most long-lasting as it can last up to six hours. And there's a little difference between addicts and fanatic athletes.

Speaker 1 Both are continually searching for a way to remain in a creative state. So it was all just weird.

Speaker 1 They were very pro-drugs and sex. And then a couple of people got the bags and were like, what's wrong with you guys? This is a yoga pants store.

Speaker 1 So they took the bags and just sewed over them with friendship is more important than money, but all you have to do is wash the bag a couple times, and then the other label came out.

Speaker 1 Oh, I bet those are worth some money on eBay. It's pretty hilarious.
Uh, and also creepy, like you're getting creepy messages, anyway.

Speaker 1 Yeah, um, and they just the answer back when that happened was not an apology, they were basically like, We're about speaking our mind, we're about um living in this, having new ideas and new experiences.

Speaker 1 And they basically were like, Yeah, we do what we want, we're trying to inspire people. So, oh my god uh

Speaker 1 so they could yeah i i have yeah go on just how you're saying how yeah but also

Speaker 1 but also good for them but don't shop there like i don't they can do that it's fine you can do that Like, here's the thing.

Speaker 1 Yoga is a practice that's about connecting to yourself and connecting, you know,

Speaker 1 having a body-mind connection so that you are more in yourself and calmer, more more normal. It's not about spending money.
Yeah, it's not about being better than your sorority sister.

Speaker 1 But to get a mantra for transcendental meditation is fucking three grand. Like, how do you, how do they? Well, no, that's based on how much money you make.

Speaker 1 But I mean, I'm not defending it because it's, it costs money. But what I'm saying is, this is a store that's creating that culture of you will spend money always

Speaker 1 and you will spend money on bullshit because we're going to lie straight to your face and say that our clothes are made of detoxifying seaweeds. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 So anyway, that's just a little background. All right.
So

Speaker 1 the worst thing that happened to them, of course, was in 2011,

Speaker 1 on the morning of March 12th, an employee entered their store, the Bethesda, Maryland store, and she

Speaker 1 actually went in.

Speaker 1 She heard something inside, I think it said. And so she went and got a guy off the street and said, you have to go in there and check.
I'm supposed to open this door. And there's weird noises.

Speaker 1 And the guy walked in to like a bloody scene. And it turned out that Brittany Norwood and Jana Murray were lying in the store.
Janna was dead and Brittany was tied up, bound hands and feet.

Speaker 1 Jana had a rope around her neck and...

Speaker 1 hammer knife wounds to her head. Holy shit.
And she had been repeatedly struck with a metal stand. Later on, the medical examiner found out she had 330 distinct wounds on her body oh my

Speaker 1 330 how long would that take to hit someone 330 times and how much rage and how personal that's like 10 minutes of hitting it's insane overkill yeah so

Speaker 1 um when they when the cop touched brittany she flinched and then she tells the story that the night before they closed the shop and then she'd gone to um i'm saying jana but i think it's jaina did i say Jaina?

Speaker 1 I think it's Jaina. So she'd gone to Jaina and said, I need to go back in.
I forgot something. And when they went back in, two masked

Speaker 1 attackers came, like stormed into the store, whoops, stormed the store

Speaker 1 and with guns and

Speaker 1 attacked them. And Brittany said, raped them and tied them up and killed Jaina and left her for dead.

Speaker 1 Had she been hit at all or her? Yeah. She had injuries too.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And her pants were slit at the crotch. It all looked very bad.
So looked, it all looked very bad. Okay.
So

Speaker 1 sorry, I have to scroll down on my dumb thing. So,

Speaker 1 of course, panic set off because this is apparently a super high-end area.

Speaker 1 Like, cause that's how those stores are always in. Like, really, so people are freaking out.
Like, there's no violent crime in that area at all.

Speaker 1 Immediately, the cops are

Speaker 1 set up a manhunt. There's a hundred and fifty thousand dollar reward for anyone with information leading to an arrest.
It's like big and huge.

Speaker 1 And they start talking to people around the neighborhood and they talk to these employees at the Apple store, which was right next door.

Speaker 1 And these employees say that, yes, they heard two women arguing and yelling and some weird thumping and fighting noises the night before, but they never called 911.

Speaker 1 How do you

Speaker 1 They didn't get asked that question in court, which, of course, because it's like ultimately, it's not about them and what they did or didn't do.

Speaker 1 Aside from, I'm sure they struggle with it. Yes.
It's hideous. But

Speaker 1 yeah, they didn't. And then somebody included in one of these articles that I read, it was this really awesome thing about

Speaker 1 how when you are, when you have a phone or a computer or something that distracts you, you are, you are like some percentage, I won't make up, and I'll just be honest that I don't know it, but like a very high percentage

Speaker 1 less likely to get involved with anything happening around you. Wow.
So they're in an Apple store. So it's probably like weird noise, weird noise.

Speaker 1 Can I go back to playing Yahtzee with friends or whatever on your phone? I don't know if I would like, how would you get involved? It just so depends on the situation.

Speaker 1 You can't expect people to be being, you know, getting murdered. No.
If you hear a fight, you're not like, I'm going to go make sure no one's getting murdered. No, not at all.

Speaker 1 And especially in that area. Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, it's a weird thing. I'm sure they had never had any experience like that.
No. And that's not, they probably were like, oh no, those girls are fighting this toward the end.
That's

Speaker 1 what I thought. It's just unfortunate because even just a call to say, maybe you should just go check.
I think it's that thing of like people aren't willing to just risk being wrong, which is

Speaker 1 sad. Or not being able to read a situation.
correctly. I mean, the way a couple of these articles talked about it, there was like extended thumping and and fight sounds.

Speaker 1 And you should have checked that out.

Speaker 1 At one point, they heard a woman scream, oh, please, God, help me. What the? Okay, no, you should have fucking gone over that.
I guess I buried the lead on that one.

Speaker 1 I should have brought that up earlier. Oh, my God.
All right. So yeah, go ahead.
Yeah. So

Speaker 1 even if you're not sure,

Speaker 1 roll the dice.

Speaker 1 Okay. So,

Speaker 1 so.

Speaker 1 From that, they realize that these employees only hired two women the entire time.

Speaker 1 They don't hear anything about men's voices. They don't hear anything else.
So they're suspicious. Also, there's this really awesome statistic I found that I know the exact number for.

Speaker 1 According to the Bureau of the Justice of Statistics, no, no, according to the Bureau of Justice statistics,

Speaker 1 only 15% of homicides are committed by someone who doesn't know the victim. 15%.
15%.

Speaker 1 That's crazy. So, in some ways, relax.
Right. Because it's very, very suspicious.
Except don't because your fucking family is going to murder you. It's going to be your husband with that milkshake.

Speaker 1 I wonder if that's the reason why we're so fascinated with stranger murders.

Speaker 1 What? The cord? Okay. Oh, I think you're, are you hitting it with a real eye? Okay.
I wonder if that's why we're so fascinated about stranger murders is because they're so rare. Yes.

Speaker 1 And so they sound like there are a lot more of them, but in actuality.

Speaker 1 It's yeah, everyone talks about the ones that happen because they're so crazy and weird. So it seems like they're more likely.
That's really interesting. Yeah.
So the cops know this.

Speaker 1 I mean, the cops, the cops, they say that all the time on like 2020 or whatever, where it's like, you always look to the husband, the wife, the friends, the people that they know. So

Speaker 1 one of the big breaks in the case

Speaker 1 was

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 they looked in Jana, Jaina's car.

Speaker 1 Jana's the murder victim? She's the victim. Okay.

Speaker 1 So they process her car and they find Britney

Speaker 1 Brittany's

Speaker 1 DNA in the car. And then they ask Brittany, have you ever been in Jaina's car? And she said, no.
That, man, I love when they fucking trap someone like that.

Speaker 1 Or if you had just said yes, right, you would not have been a suspect. But they never do because they were in the car.
So they're trying to cover. They think that lie is going to get them out.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And yeah, that's that's the greatest. I love that.
So, um,

Speaker 1 also, they realized they had had all the tests processed, and Brittany had said that they were both raped by these masked men. But when the test came back,

Speaker 1 there was no sign of rape. On either of them.
There was no

Speaker 1 evidence of it. Yeah, there was all of the normal things that they find.
No burning penetration

Speaker 1 on either of them. Okay.
And

Speaker 1 also her wounds were few and superficial. Right.
Yeah. If you're going to hit someone

Speaker 1 300 something times and the other person just gets a little.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's crazy and bad. Yeah.
And also, because then that's like, there's some crime of passion taking place. Yeah.
So there is an intended victim here. Yes, exactly.
Okay.

Speaker 1 And also then they realize for the angles, they start studying the angles of the wounds, clearly self-inflicted, and she tied herself up. It was all, they start looking back on it stage.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now there were in the blood, there were two shoe prints. Jaina's shoe prints were not in the blood.

Speaker 1 Brittany's shoe prints were in the blood and a size 14 men man's shoe, one

Speaker 1 set of men's shoes were in the blood. So not two, like she's not.
So she grabbed some shoes off the fucking shelf. That's exactly right.
Son of a bitch. And walked around through

Speaker 1 as if a man was walking through. What an idiot that she didn't grab both of fucking shoes.
Oh, because it's like the display pair. Right.
Oh my. God.

Speaker 1 So it's like brilliant and so stupid at the same time. Well, it's that thing of like, you are, you can't cover up a murder.
You can't, you just can't. You're not as smart as you think you are.

Speaker 1 You can't. And also cops have seen it a million times.
Like they know what they're looking at and what looks weird and what doesn't. So

Speaker 1 ultimately, they basically get her to start talking. And it turns out

Speaker 1 six days after the crime actually happened.

Speaker 1 um it was the same night of jaina's memorial uh they arrest brittany Norwood for first-degree murder. And so basically they figure out

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 that day

Speaker 1 Brittany had been caught shoplifting a pair of yoga pants by Jaina.

Speaker 1 And that's what caused

Speaker 1 that was the inciting incident. Obviously, much more was going on

Speaker 1 for her to get stabbed. over 300 times and they said she used five different weapons all found within the store.

Speaker 1 Oh my god, yeah.

Speaker 1 And there was a blood trail that showed how Jaina tried to escape through the back door.

Speaker 1 And she had 107 defensive wounds. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 So, and they said that that was the most that medical examiner had ever seen on a victim. Wow.
So, this was a crazy and horrible and extended period of time where this murder happened.

Speaker 1 Now, here's here's the creepiest part to me:

Speaker 1 Brittany goes clearly just goes fucking berserk, snaps. She gets caught.
Now she's in that, she's out of this system. She has, she's the worst of the worst.

Speaker 1 If you're bad for drinking Diet Coke on the floor, imagine what getting caught shoplifting would be like in that culture at that store.

Speaker 1 Also, I don't think it was probably very easy because Brittany was black.

Speaker 1 And I don't know what the percentages were of people who were black that worked at Lululemon, but I bet that was an element in it.

Speaker 1 I'm sure that brought there was something that brought to the table. There were other articles that talked about how she had stalked her boyfriend.

Speaker 1 I think she had that, she was definitely maybe a borderline personality. She had definitely had some issues, whatever.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 this girl

Speaker 1 viciously and insanely murders her coworker and then lays down in blood for hours and hours until she gets discovered. Crazy.
In the same room as a dead body. I mean, that's the creepy level of that.

Speaker 1 Oh, and also she went and moved because when she called Jaina back to let her back into the store,

Speaker 1 Jaina was double parked. So she had to go get into her car and she went and parked it down like a couple blocks away.
And that's how she got, they got that DNA of hers in there.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 essentially, she had 10 hours to stage and plan this

Speaker 1 crime and figure it all out.

Speaker 1 Um, so anyway, she was convicted in an hour.

Speaker 1 Um, they tried to say that she was insane, and they were like, No, sorry, this was insanely premeditated. Yeah, I mean, that's bad phrasing.

Speaker 1 Uh, this was very premeditated, and obviously, she tried to cover it up so she knew it was a yes wrong yes exactly um

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 i guess oh so she was got she got a life sentence and with no possibility of parole uh

Speaker 1 so it turned out that the lululemon murder was much more fascinating than i could ever imagine yeah i thought she just like went in there and shot her like i didn't even know any of the details no it was grisly as hell yeah and just that that, the element, like the

Speaker 1 pressure-y sales sorority sister element of it

Speaker 1 is fascinating to me. Somebody, there's a guy that wrote a book.
His name's David Morse, and it's called the,

Speaker 1 this is going to be wrong. I want to say it's called the Yoga Pants murder, but that's not going to be right.
The Yoga Store murder. There we go.
So close.

Speaker 1 Ooh, are there, are there crime scene photos? I'm sure there are.

Speaker 1 I want to see them without the body, so I'm not that fucked up. They wanted to show the crime scene photos when they were trying to pick the jury, and they, the um,

Speaker 1 I think, was it when they were trying to pick the jury?

Speaker 1 I guess that doesn't really make sense, but they were basically trying to introduce these photos, and like the defense fought it because they're so awful. Her skull was cracked, her spine was severed.

Speaker 1 Oh, I don't want to see that. I mean, it's terrible.
I mean, you, you know, she was stabbed over 300 times, it's insane, it's horrifying.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 yeah, so there you go. Namaste.
Namaste.

Speaker 1 Namaste, Karen. Namaste, everybody.
Should we end on an ohm?

Speaker 1 Well, ohm. Well,

Speaker 1 fuck.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 That's a gruesome and sad one. Horrible.
We're back. Karen, do you have any updates? No case updates.
Basically, it's all status quo. Although we got to the bottom of kitchen parties.

Speaker 1 So that was the thing that we talked about. It was a Lululemon kind of like Alley Rally style.

Speaker 1 Let's all get together, you know, like some sort of retail bullshit cult thing that they make up to make it seem interesting. And then you get people to, whatever.

Speaker 1 They're not going to have to work that day, but like they still have to come to the fucking no, no, this was a different, this was almost like a little bit of a manipulation of the customers.

Speaker 1 So essentially, there were these islands near the fitting rooms and the employees were expected to just kind of hang out there and then stage casual conversations like you're in the kitchen, quote unquote, and basically

Speaker 1 talking about yoga pants or like, oh, you need that. I can actually recommend you this great jacket or whatever.
For me alone, I mean, as someone who's done that job before

Speaker 1 at Funky Diva and back in 1999, like I know how it goes and I hated every minute of doing it and I hate every minute of it being done to me. Yes, the retail PTSD of like being forced to engage

Speaker 1 when people don't like it and are rude to you actively, right? Really sucks. It's like if you're the greeter at the gap this day, I wonder if they still do greeters.
I don't think they do.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't think so. But I bet you better fucking get said hi to, though.
Like, if you're a secret shopper for them, oh, yeah, like you have to eyes up. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You don't have to stand there like we used to have to literally stand there and be like, socks are on sale today. And blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 Like that whole thing where you're like having this hip interaction with the person you're about to buy jeans from. It's just like, who cares?

Speaker 1 No one needs help finding anything unless it's like a movie and they're like on a mission to get this one thing. No one needs help finding anything.
Can I help you find anything today? No.

Speaker 1 In this day and age, doesn't the average customer really know their rights in the way of like they're going to find you and let you know the kind of help they need?

Speaker 1 Like no one's shy anymore about this. And that's, I'm going to say it again, but that's my big complaint about Sephora.
I just want to go and touch all the eyeshadows and look at all the samples.

Speaker 1 I don't want to, I don't want someone to help me because oftentimes they're like, oh, you need that? Well, then come over here. And I'm like, no, I'm over, I'm over here.
I want to be in this area.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't want to be, I don't want to be sped through this. Yeah.
No. Totally.
That's a, that's a long Zen journey that you want to take when you're there. That's right.
Hot bath of a Sephora.

Speaker 1 Anyway, also, the old founder, or I guess the original founder who's no longer involved in the business of Lululemon is a man named Chip Wilson who has just been spouting pretty nasty rhetoric for years.

Speaker 1 And so much so that the company had to come forward and say that his views don't represent the company's values

Speaker 1 and that they are committed to creating an inclusive environment in that company. So hopefully that's true.
And hopefully that actual work is getting done.

Speaker 1 But,

Speaker 1 and also, you know, the information I was looking for that could have been really cool to like unveil right now is that they also change their internal practices and they don't make everything feel like this weird club that you're trying to get into while you have a retail job.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Which was one of the things we talked about of like what the pressures and what this job must have felt like

Speaker 1 to result in this horrifying murder. But still, there's no way to get that information unless we had a secret employee, which we don't.
That'd be so cool. We should have done that.

Speaker 1 Although they no longer ask their employees to pursue shoplifters, which is insane that they ever did that. Never do that.
No. Never do that.

Speaker 1 Okay, now it's time for George's story about Tent Girl and the Doe Network.

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Speaker 1 Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Ready for mine? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Mine is about

Speaker 1 the tent girl and the doe network. Whoa.
Do you know them? Doe as in deer? No, D-O-E, as in like Jane Doe. O-O-O.

Speaker 1 Like doe, doe, a dead body. A female dead body.
Oh, my God. I had to.
You did it. Did it.
Did it.

Speaker 1 All right. So on May 17th, 1968, a well digger.
named Wilbur Riddle was killing time between jobs, picking up glass insulators on a dirt road. It was just outside Lexington, Kentucky.

Speaker 1 So he's scavenging. Sure.

Speaker 1 He comes across a large green tarpaulin

Speaker 1 and that was commonly used by carnival workers to store the big, like the big top tensin.

Speaker 1 And inside he finds the new decomposing body of a young woman. She appeared to be in her teens and she had been dead for months.

Speaker 1 They couldn't figure out her exact cause of death, but it was thought that she'd been knocked out with a blow to the head and then tied up inside the bag to slowly suffocate.

Speaker 1 And the way they knew this is that her nails were worn down and broken. Oh, no.
As if she had been trying to escape. Nightmare.
Yes.

Speaker 1 She couldn't be identified and became known as the Tent Girl. Sorry, it's 68, you said? Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 1 It became a local legend and her grave had a headstone that had, that they had put the, a sketch of the, what the police had sketched she might have looked like.

Speaker 1 And it said, tent girl found May 17th, 1968 on highway, U.S. Highway 25 North, died about April, like all these weird statistics about her, unidentified.

Speaker 1 So it was a place where local teens would visit to cause trouble and to scare each other. And like on Halloween, you had at night you had to go touch the gravestone and run away and stuff.

Speaker 1 And so a couple decades decades later, there's a teenager who moves into town named Todd Matthews. And he hears about the story of Tent Girl by a girl he's got a crush on.

Speaker 1 Nine months later, he and this girl get married. And it turns out her name is Lori Riddle.
Her father was Wilbur Riddle, who found Tent Girl.

Speaker 1 So Todd Matthews becomes obsessed with the case.

Speaker 1 And for decades, he's determined to find out the true identity of Tent Girl.

Speaker 1 Todd's two siblings had died at birth and had really stuck with him. And so he says that he felt like Tent Girl had become his sibling until he could find her real family, which is so fucking sweet.

Speaker 1 I might cry.

Speaker 1 So when the internet's created,

Speaker 1 he saves up enough money for he like works low-income job, saves up enough money to buy a computer, and then he trolls chat rooms and search engines and missing personal listings, searching for details that match Tent Girl.

Speaker 1 And he creates a website devoted to finding her identity. And this is before any of like web sleuthing shit is going on.

Speaker 1 Like in his mind, he's just going to email as many people as possible until he finds out who this missing person is. So cuts of the night, January 1998.

Speaker 1 And Todd has been online for hours looking at random stuff when he comes across a classified ad from a woman who's searching for her missing 24-year-old sister, Barbara Ann Hackman Taylor.

Speaker 1 Todd sees the three words, Lexington, 1977, missing, and he knows it's her immediately.

Speaker 1 So in December 1967, 24-year-old Barbara Ann Hackman was a mother and a waitress. She had married young and then mysteriously disappeared.

Speaker 1 They thought it was a teenager originally when they found the body, but she was actually 24, which is just another reason, like why

Speaker 1 you cops, like it wouldn't have taken someone amateur to find this person because you're looking for a teenager. You're not going to find someone with totally different statistics.
Right.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Yeah. They won't fall into that category.
Right.

Speaker 1 So Matthews arranges to have Tent Girl's body exhumed. And in April 1998, DNA tests prove that.
Barbara Ann Hackman is Tent Girl. Wow.
I know.

Speaker 1 The family chooses to have Barbara's remains kept in the original spot with the original headstone.

Speaker 1 They just added a little stone underneath with her real name, nickname, date of birth, presumed date of death, and the inscription loving mother, grandmother, and sister. Oh, I know.

Speaker 1 She was a grandmother at 24. No, I think she had her babe, her daughter, and now she's a grandmother.

Speaker 1 Yeah. All right.

Speaker 1 So.

Speaker 1 He died before Tent Girl was identified, but

Speaker 1 Barbara's husband, George Earl Taylor, never filed a missing persons report. And he told Barbara's family that she had left him for another man.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. So, you know how she was fucking found in a tarpaulin? Am I saying that right? That was

Speaker 1 commonly used by carnival workers to store big tents?

Speaker 1 Guess what George's job was? He was an accountant.

Speaker 1 Was he an accountant? Was he, did he work at REI?

Speaker 1 Carnival worker!

Speaker 1 Yes, he was a carnival worker. He died of cancer in October 1987, and I hope he rots in hell.

Speaker 1 Good. Yeah, good.
Glad. Go fuck yourself.
Go fuck yourself.

Speaker 1 Isn't that crazy? Like, what is what a, there's nothing besides like, besides fingerprints that could have like made it more of a like, here's who done it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, did they, well, Karen, don't question it. I won't.
Keep that. Did they play? Did they like tie it back to the carnival he was working at? Did he maybe?

Speaker 1 No, I just meant like at the time when they found her, did they take that tarpulin or whatever it's called evidence and then go interview some carnival workers? Right.

Speaker 1 See what local carnival was in town. And then it could that be the third season of True Detective, the story of like the carnies.
Those are very questions.

Speaker 1 I was just excited that they put that together, but gosh, I wish they had done that before he died of cancer. Yeah.
You know, that's a good point. But I mean, you know, well,

Speaker 1 okay. Can I do a different story? No.

Speaker 1 I'm kidding. All right.
So, so the ending of this is pretty amazing. That Todd Matthews goes on to help create the Doe Network, which I'm obsessed with.

Speaker 1 It's an online database containing thousands of profiles for unidentified Does.

Speaker 1 Jane and John Does and baby Does and amateur sleuths try to connect unidentified bodies with missing people. Amazing.

Speaker 1 Like people who are like nurses and fucking janitors and all these crazy people who who like are doing this for free in their free time just sit there and try to find matching characteristics to get these people found and get them you know so is it like web sleuthing where anyone can do it and yeah enter the information they started they started regulating it because I think that a lot of

Speaker 1 a lot of police were getting annoyed with all the calls they were getting like, I think it's this person. I think it's that person.
So there's like for each

Speaker 1 town or each city, there's like a main person that, and it has to go through like a crazy vetting process now.

Speaker 1 So if you're like, I think this missing person is this unidentified body, they have to like, it has to be checked out by like a bunch of people who have been certified by the Donet Work to do that.

Speaker 1 But yeah, you can kind of just like look for, it's almost like that game where you, what was the memory one where you turn over a face and you turn it back over and you have to remember where the face is.

Speaker 1 It's called memory. Thank you.

Speaker 1 So he also co-founded NAM Us. It's, I think it's supposed to be NAME Us, but there's no E, the National Missing and Unidentified Persons System.

Speaker 1 And another thing they do is they

Speaker 1 hire or they people who

Speaker 1 draw portraits and stuff just for free. Like can we take a

Speaker 1 dead body and sketch out what the face would look like or take a missing person and sketch out what their face would look like now. Oh, and they all do it for free.
Wow. It's pretty amazing.

Speaker 1 Next place where we give money for the t-shirts. I don't know.
We can discuss it. We can.
All right. So, as of 2007, I couldn't find any more recent statistics.

Speaker 1 There's approximately 40,000 unidentified human remains stowed in backrooms of morgues, buried before they're identified, and buried in unmarked graves across the country. What's that number? 40,000.

Speaker 1 Shit. And that's 2007.
The National Crime Information Center records nearly 90,000 missing people at any given time.

Speaker 1 So 40,000 of those unmarked, unidentified people, you know, their websites list 70 successful identity resolutions that the site has assisted with. Oh, that's nice.

Speaker 1 36 had occurred within the first five years. And Tent Girl was the first case to be identified by use of the internet.
Wow. Isn't that incredible?

Speaker 1 Todd Matthews, he just like wasn't obsessive compulsive with this case. And because of that, so many families have been able to find out what happened to their loved ones.

Speaker 1 And I'm so fascinated with those stories of like she left home one day, and you know, we thought we'd hear from her again, and we didn't. And we don't know if she's alive or not.

Speaker 1 She might have just moved on and hated our dad, and you know, right.

Speaker 1 But then they find they're like, you know, by the side of the road, this person with this crazy tattoo was found. And why can't we identify this person?

Speaker 1 And so they put all this stuff in the infrastructure in the thing. That's very cool.

Speaker 1 Yeah, tent girl.

Speaker 1 There's a photo of her. It looks a lot like the drawing.

Speaker 1 Sad, right?

Speaker 1 Well, yeah, but it's like the tragedy that something good came out. I know.
It's very cool.

Speaker 1 And also it's nice that idea that, like, yeah, that's if you have, it's just so nice for the families. Like that, that idea of just not knowing is so torturous.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I've kind of been wanting to do, I've been thinking a lot lately about like, what can I, how can I volunteer my time in some way that we're, this true crime thing we're doing?

Speaker 1 And I'm like, you know, do I work for, do I go volunteer for women's shelter or something like that?

Speaker 1 And this, it's like, I feel like that's what these people are doing is they're like, for no, they're not making any money.

Speaker 1 They have jobs, they don't need them, they just want to help find their, it's just they're really into these crazy puzzles and piecing these things together. And they're right.

Speaker 1 And if you have that specific ability of like, you can draw, you know, what they have a picture of what they last looked like or whatever, it's like everybody pitching in what their specific talents are.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, that's very cool.
I like that.

Speaker 1 So maybe i'll maybe i'll do something like that and i can't draw but i can look at tattoos and remember if they were found on dead bodies or not do it i'm really good at that remembering no

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 yeah nice so that was short one but i thought it was important no that was cool i like that it like it's good information yeah That was a good one. Totally.
Well, I guess that's it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Thank you for listening. Thank you so much.
Can you guys, if you rate, review, and subscribe on iTunes, that helps us a lot and we appreciate it.

Speaker 1 And gosh, it's nice having you guys listen in this podcast. Also, Elvis is sitting right in front of Steven's face because Stephen gave him a cookie last time.

Speaker 1 I like that you just said, gosh, gosh, it's nice you listen,

Speaker 1 buddy. Gee whiz.
Gee whiz.

Speaker 1 Gee Willikers, everybody. Thank you.
Thanks.

Speaker 1 And you know what? Stay sexy. And don't get moited.

Speaker 1 Elvis, you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 Want a cookie?

Speaker 1 whoa

Speaker 1 we're back georgia are there updates for this case yes there are updates this is one of those cases i love that there is this tragic story and something beautiful comes out of it because people because of humans and humanity and you know caring about causes that have nothing to do with you and just personalizing them so I love this story and I love Todd Matthews.

Speaker 1 And unfortunately, he passed away earlier this year. He was only 53.
And his contributions to the cyber detective community live on through the Doe Network and Name Us.

Speaker 1 And there's a article you can check out if you want on Vice called The Pioneering Cyber Detective Who Cracked a 30-Year-old Cold Case by Sammy Carmella that I recommend.

Speaker 1 And together, the Doe Network and Name Us have resolved over 65,000 missing, unidentified, and unclaimed persons' cases. Amazing.
Which is incredible.

Speaker 1 So get involved in that if you're good at sleuthing. I'm not.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 If you're a person that's interested in true crime, that is an incredible way to actually, you know, do something constructive with this interest

Speaker 1 and interact and help people out. Well, yeah, like I, when I had a boring desk job and didn't do anything, I wish I had known about this.
Instead, I was just blogging. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So that doesn't feel as good as like helping find missing people. You were helping other funky divas in your area.
That's all. That's my fucking goal in life.
My creed, my creed and my motto.

Speaker 1 And here's your other motto is Nama Stay Sexy, which was the title of this episode. Yeah, so no more number puns.
Thank God. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 And so if we're naming this episode today based on something we said in the episode, would it be trailer spoiler?

Speaker 1 Which Karen jokes she's going to spoil a trailer of the new Jean Vanet Ramsey Talkie series. Don't spoil.
You can't even fucking spoil a trailer these days. That's right.

Speaker 1 And then Georgia said, gosh, it's nice. That's so funny.
Gosh, it's nice. Because we were thanking listeners for listening to the show.
And she said, gosh, it's nice having you guys listen.

Speaker 1 Was that sarcastic? No, I hear my gosh is definitely something that has, you know, regularly come out of my mouth. Is that something fucking? Is that your grandma? Who's that? I don't know.

Speaker 1 I think it's like quaint and old-timey, and I like it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it is. It's nice.

Speaker 1 I don't care about taking God's name in vain. So why would I, gosh, it's nice.
Gosh, I guess you know what? It's like a humbled thing. I'm just humbled.
Gosh. Golly.

Speaker 1 Golly gee. Golly gee.
Well, gosh, guys, thanks so much for listening. Gosh, I'd pick that title for the show title because I love it.
It's nice.

Speaker 1 It's nice. And so are you guys.
And I appreciate you still. Gosh.
Gosh. If I was listening right now, I'd turn this off.

Speaker 1 Stay sexy. And don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 No one brings out your inner monster like a bad neighbor.

Speaker 1 Claire Danes and Matthew Reese find that out for themselves in The Beast in Me, a new eight-episode drama from the team that brought you homeland. Danes plays Aggie Wiggs, a grieving writer.

Speaker 1 Reese plays Niall Jarvis, her new neighbor and possible murderer. But who's the monster and who's the bad neighbor? That's another story.

Speaker 1 It's a game of cat and mouse that sets them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The beast and me now playing only on Netflix.
You will not want to miss this. Goodbye.
Goodbye.

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