Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti

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Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. This is our new Wednesday episode where we recap our old shows with new commentary, updates, and insights.
You are welcome.

Speaker 1 Okay, so today we're recapping episode 28, which we named I 20 ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice kirioti.

Speaker 1 That has stood the test of time. I agree.

Speaker 1 I love that one. So join us as we take you back to August 4th, 2016, because now we can all be day one listeners.
Huzzah, let's listen to the intro of episode 28.

Speaker 1 Karen, hi. Hi.
Hi.

Speaker 1 Hi. You pointed at me to talk first tonight.
I wanted you to do the, I did it last time trying to make a start. Oh, hey, this.
Oh, fuck. I got to turn my phone off.
Sorry.

Speaker 1 Oh, hey, this is. Hello? Who's this?

Speaker 1 Show business? It's a telemarketer. Do you mind if I take this?

Speaker 1 Can I talk about some products with this person? Yeah. I give them all my social security number and everything over the podcast.
Just record it all.

Speaker 1 Welcome to My Favorite Murder. This is basically what the podcast is.
Yes. It's going to be this

Speaker 1 for another two and three quarters hours. Yep.
Enjoy. Yeah.
There you go. Or goodbye.

Speaker 1 Forever.

Speaker 1 Can I start out real quick just by plugging? Just so the skippers who skip to the stories don't miss this. Don't miss this.
We have new motherfucking shirts. Yes, and they're good.

Speaker 1 They're good, right?

Speaker 1 I'm really. Yes.
There's something. Well, to me, when you sent me that picture, there's something very visceral about the original logo as a shirt.

Speaker 1 Like, it makes me feel official. It's so official.
And I can't wait to see someone. I'm still waiting to run into someone in the wild, like someone I don't know, wearing one of our old shirts.

Speaker 1 Well, that just happened to me. Shut up.
Walking into your apartment, and Stephen has our shirt on. Yeah.
Yeah. I was dressed appropriately.
He was. We appreciate it.

Speaker 1 We don't let anyone in our house unless they're wearing mine or Vince's podcast shirt. That's smart.

Speaker 1 As a couple, that's a good decision. We're real dicks.

Speaker 1 Is it obnoxious to wear your own podcast sweatshirt? T-shirt, yes. Hoodie, no.
No. It's like when you're working on a movie and you get the show, the movie logo hat.
That's right.

Speaker 1 And once it wraps, you can wear it.

Speaker 1 Should we also get director's chairs?

Speaker 1 Do you think? Definitely.

Speaker 1 Should we get baseball jackets? Baseball jackets, directors. You can get, I was looking to try to get mugs and stuff.

Speaker 1 We can get like serving trays with the logo on it. You can get so much weird shit.

Speaker 1 You know, Dave Anthony from the dollops says that the thing they sell the most on are posters. Yeah.

Speaker 1 We have to do that. Yeah.
Posters, and we can do shot glasses too, which I feel like.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's got to be a lot of college kids listening, right? I would hope. What are they doing with their time? I mean, studying? Please.
Look at us. We didn't go to college.

Speaker 1 I mean, we didn't graduate. Look at us.
I mean, I tried, but it sucked. I gave it a shot.
It was weird and uncomfortable. Oh, I hated it.
I really didn't like it.

Speaker 1 It was triggering for me because I hated high school so much that it just felt like high school.

Speaker 1 Mine felt like the opposite of high school because I went to a tiny high school and then I tried to go to Sac State, which was like going to

Speaker 1 a huge,

Speaker 1 a whole other city as a school. And I just felt lost and empty and alone.
Yeah, community college felt like,

Speaker 1 oh, God, it felt like I was going backwards in time because my school was kind of nice, and then suddenly it was like

Speaker 1 this terrible,

Speaker 1 like old school that was sad. Did it have those desks where the chair and the desk are connected?

Speaker 1 I can't, there's something so depressing about those desks. Because you can't move in or out, and your butt hurts, and it's just nothing.
And it's like, you're, it's like a little clamp on you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's a school clamp. It's a little prison cell.

Speaker 1 So look at us now. Yeah.
Look at us free, sticking our legs wherever we want,

Speaker 1 sideways, anywhere

Speaker 1 in our director's chairs. Quit school, everybody.
That's the one message we have for the children this week. Please quit school.
Did you know Burke Ramsey is going to be on Dr. Phil in September? I

Speaker 1 know.

Speaker 1 And I've been waiting to freak out with me. For you.
Yeah. Because I've been seeing that.
I'm like, whatever, whatever. Even Vince was like, did you see that? And I'm like, yeah, whatever.

Speaker 1 But I've been waiting to talk to you about it. I love that

Speaker 1 the day it was announced, I think, I must have had six or seven people tweet at me

Speaker 1 and our the My Favorite Murder Twitter, we had like 25 people. Instagram too, like people, we have an Instagram account and people will be like commenting on a shirt post.
Like, did you see this?

Speaker 1 So here's what I think is going to happen. One of two things.

Speaker 1 Either it's going to be the most boring, basic thing he thinks an intruder did it, or he's totally going to just go ballistic and say it was his mom.

Speaker 1 I guess, I'm guessing it's not the latter, but how cool would that be? It'd be amazing. I did see one picture in one of the articles that got sent, and they're walking in an orchard.

Speaker 1 The walk and talk? Probably a bad sign. Yeah, because that means they're two besties.

Speaker 1 No, they always do the walk and talk, though. Oh, yeah? The walk and talk, whenever there's like an interview,

Speaker 1 that's just a thing. Okay.
A walk and talk. Okay.
But you think an orchard is a bad sign. I mean, it just looked too peaceful and chummy to me.

Speaker 1 You're not going to be like, and then she hit her over the head in an orchard. You're not going to say that in an orchard.
Yeah. I don't, who knows?

Speaker 1 But here's what I will say: and I'm not going to name any names. I've got an inside source.

Speaker 1 I'm going to find out from my inside source if it's already been taped, if it's a taping live in a studio.

Speaker 1 Like if the clips we've already seen are just a pre-tape that they're

Speaker 1 letting out footage of or whatever.

Speaker 1 Because what if we went to the live taping of that? No, stop it. Oh my God.
I don't even think that's what you meant. Wait, what?

Speaker 1 Would you want to do that?

Speaker 1 I'm going to find out from my inside source. I didn't even know that's what you meant.
I thought you were going to like find out what he was saying, but that's, I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 No, no, don't you want to be there? Yes. Because here's the thing I do trust in Dr.
Phil.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 is

Speaker 1 I just got the picture in my head.

Speaker 1 Did you ever see the Dr. Phil that was on the Muppet the Sesame Street where they did a Dr.
Phil, and the Muppet looked exactly like him? No, I love it.

Speaker 1 That just flashed in my head, and I kind of went away for a second. Sorry.

Speaker 1 I do trust that Dr. Phil doesn't give a fuck.
So he will like confront like a lunatic. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like it's not like I'm going back on what I just said about the chummyness because now that I think about it, Dr. Phil will just all be like,

Speaker 1 why, why do you still live with your boyfriend who's a pedophile? Or what you know what I mean? He doesn't care. Wait, Burke Ramsey lives with a boyfriend who's a family.
No, no, no.

Speaker 1 So yeah, he definitely asks the hard questions and kind of fucking needles them until they like,

Speaker 1 they get nervous and then the real shit comes out. So I think he's better than like a Barbara Walters because she's super soft for sure on people.

Speaker 1 I agree. I can't wait.
I'm totally going to watch it, but I'm like everything in life, keeping my expectations low.

Speaker 1 If we

Speaker 1 somehow get tickets to be in the studio audience, I will lose.

Speaker 1 Should we wear matching outfits?

Speaker 1 Should we? And should they be our t-shirts?

Speaker 1 Oh my God. Yes.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Yes, a thousand times. Yes, please.
Should we dress like super weird, not twin sisters? Yeah. And freak people out.
Get our haircut. Yes.
Everything. Should I get a tiny bob?

Speaker 1 That was my 90s hair for each. I want to say we should dress like pageant girls, but that seems in bad taste to say right now.
It does seem like that. So I'm not saying it.

Speaker 1 That was fucking huge. The huge tier trophy.

Speaker 1 They would kick us out.

Speaker 1 We would get arrested for bad taste. We do.
That's like an intense drag queen move is to like dress up as Jamini. Totally.

Speaker 1 Then here's part two, which a lot of people know because a lot of people also tweeted us. This information

Speaker 1 is that

Speaker 1 Ingmar Guadnique, who is the guy that was accused of murdering

Speaker 1 Chandra Levy, is going to get released from prison after six years because the prosecutors are dropping all charges because based on recent unforeseen developments that were investigated over the past week.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 I am.

Speaker 1 I'm never speechless, but I'm speechless about this. That's insane.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 whatever they found,

Speaker 1 whatever this investigation is, the idea that it got to the point where it gets him out of jail entirely

Speaker 1 something incredibly definitive but didn't he also kill two what isn't he suspected of or did kill

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 1 rock and roll didn't isn't he a suspected of or killed two other people he did now look i'm not celebrating his release because he did attack women in that park that's the reason he was arrested

Speaker 1 but he attacked women with the intent i believe to rape them if he did if not raping them

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 1 there i think so basically he was the perfect person to arrest for her murder. It's just that moral dilemma of like, is setting him free just going to fuck up the world even more?

Speaker 1 I mean, he's, I know you can't hold someone for something they weren't charged for, but

Speaker 1 I hate it. Well, I want to know what the, I want to know what the evidence is so I can know if I agree or not, but they're not telling us.
You're right.

Speaker 1 It's not exciting he's getting out of jail because obviously he can't handle himself around women, parks or screwdrivers sexual predator yeah he's no good and i'm sure jail helped him with that right

Speaker 1 tends to do but what i yeah i'm just stoked that they found something they were still looking yeah and they found something so definitive that means we're gonna find out about it within the next month it can't just be a witness because it's been what 10 years and witness eyewitness testimony socks it can't be witnesses don't get people out of jail i don't think it can't just also it can't just be dna because finding a hair on the body doesn't mean anything you know unless it's can be linked what did they find what did they find what did they find what

Speaker 1 because she wasn't she isn't wasn't she skeletal remains when they found her i can't remember people talk to me about these cases that we talk about on here and i have almost no memory of talking about them

Speaker 1 i have to re-listen to episodes i've gone like i should do this murder and then like did i really do that i thought of that so many times there was one that i wanted to ask you if i've done because i totally forgot.

Speaker 1 And they mean the world to us, listeners.

Speaker 1 What most

Speaker 1 important things. We love it.
I mean, I forget my own name. I almost did one of yours.

Speaker 1 I was looking it up today and I was like, I can't find it. Which one?

Speaker 1 It was a maybe your first.

Speaker 1 No, not your first, because your first was Martha Maunsley, right? No, whose first was Jean Bonnet. Oh, okay.
It was an early one that was a little more obscure.

Speaker 1 And right, I saw it and I went, that's so good. And I'm like, the reason you think that is because George.

Speaker 1 What if you just did it and then did it better?

Speaker 1 And then said, up your game, girl. Yeah.
That's right.

Speaker 1 It's a contest within a.

Speaker 1 I started listening,

Speaker 1 like, I want to say just for research purposes and just for like quality control, but started, I listened to episode one from the beginning.

Speaker 1 But it's really just because I'm fucking full of myself and wanted to hear how funny we are. And I was laughing out.
I was, here, this is like describes me in a nutshell.

Speaker 1 I was shopping for vintage clothing, listening to my own podcast, and laughing out loud.

Speaker 1 Do you think you were laughing really loud and didn't know it? Because you had earbuds in? I was, no, because I'm really aware that, but I was laughing out loud accidentally, like, I couldn't help.

Speaker 1 What is, oh, God, I'm such a dick. But it's.
No, I think it's very brave of you to admit this. I re-listen to episodes a lot because it's a really, it's fun to do.

Speaker 1 It's, but I don't know, know, it's fun to do. It is.
It is. And it's like, oh, shit.
I think you and I text each other on a regular basis. Oh, that was good.
That was actually good.

Speaker 1 Sometimes we leave this apartment and I'm like,

Speaker 1 we shouldn't do this.

Speaker 1 Wait, what? Wait, sorry, what?

Speaker 1 Please tell me that's not true.

Speaker 1 Any more housekeeping? That is it for me.

Speaker 1 It's funny that we're talking that John Benet Ramsey again. Did you watch the recent documentary on Netflix? It's timeless.

Speaker 1 I haven't because there's so many other true crime documentaries out right now. I feel like my list has gotten insanely long.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 This is the cold case, Who Killed John Benet Ramsey, of course, by Joe Berlinger, who's this like incredible documentary filmmaker. Yes.

Speaker 1 The thing that it didn't give me any like new insights, except for I really don't think the family was involved. I really do at this point, and I feel bad that I ever did.
I think it was an intruder.

Speaker 1 I feel bad about all of it. Like,

Speaker 1 this is a story that is so.

Speaker 1 I was talking to somebody this morning where I was just like, the idea that there are so many risky people in this child's life. Yeah.
And the fact that there are so many potential people

Speaker 1 is so horrible. Yeah.
Just so horrible. And they, you know, like child pageants, we don't even have to get into it.
Yeah. God.

Speaker 1 But you're going to feel bad for especially Patsy Ramsey when you watch this. It's like, it's fucked up.
It's just so fucked up.

Speaker 1 And I do think that the Boulder Police have a lot to fucking answer to based on this documentary. Yeah.
And also, it's just very strange.

Speaker 1 It's like a cold case, it feels like there should be a way to get in there and do something about how this cold case that just everybody wants answers to. Well, there is, and it's DNA.

Speaker 1 And again, the Boulder Police Department has some shit to fucking answer for. Really? Yeah.
No, I have to move this one up to the top of my list. I said, it's only three episodes.
Okay.

Speaker 1 It's good and it's fucked up. Burke isn't in it because he has not publicly spoken since this interview with Dr.
Phil, which you can totally understand why he wouldn't want to.

Speaker 1 But another one of John Ramsey's sons is in it. Looking back on this rewind, it's a really good, like, I think people over the years of being a true crime fan and a listener of it, I really,

Speaker 1 the thing that stands out the most to me is media literacy and how it used to just be we kind of accepted whole cloth anything we were shown of like, well, then that's what it is.

Speaker 1 Well, then that's what it is. Yes, it must be true if it's being printed or it's being said by news people.
Yeah, it's on a major network. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And as people get smarter, which I do believe they are, and it's like all the internet, you know, the things that advance our kind of awareness and literacy, it's just like to believe that we know anything simply because one group of people got something together and tried to convince us for ratings.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It is a thing that I'm glad is changing.
Yeah, you got to check your sources, even if the source is like, you know, a major fucking news outlet.

Speaker 1 Cause like, where did they get that information from? And especially these days, like, who, you know, I don't know. Trust no man.
Trust no sources. Right, exactly.

Speaker 1 And then we also talk about the Chandra Levy case and that fact that her, which you covered before in an earlier episode, and that her alleged killer has been released from jail based on new evidence.

Speaker 1 Oh, it was, you covered it in episode 16

Speaker 1 of MFM and Rewind. So listen to that if you want to.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And we also talked about listening to our own show. Yeah.
First of all, we called them old episodes and we're in episode 28.

Speaker 1 So we're just like, hey, did you like that idea of listening to what we were doing to get a sense of like, what are we doing? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I feel fine about the fact that I listened to it. I haven't done it in a while.

Speaker 1 There were times where like every couple of weeks I would listen to the beginning just to be like fact check, like make sure that are we, are we doing the right thing, you know?

Speaker 1 Or I'd listen to my story if it was a story that was really like one of them that I was nervous about getting right. I'd listen and just like reassure myself that it sounded not stupid.
Right.

Speaker 1 But more and more, I'm not able to listen. to my own fucking voice anymore.

Speaker 1 Oh, no, like when I walk by and there's like an engineer trying to edit what we just did, I'll like run away when I can hear my voice. It's for others.
It's not for me.

Speaker 1 It's kind of like when we stop looking at our own Facebook page. It's just like, oh, this isn't, we're not supposed to be on this end of the process where we did the other part.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Put the mirror away. Yeah.
Move on with your life. Yeah.
Do your best. Please, please move on with your life.
Okay, so now we're going to get into George's story. This is the Durham family murders.

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Speaker 1 Am I first first this week? You're first. Am I first? Are you first?

Speaker 1 I think, yeah, you did What's Her Face last week? And I think you went first. I also don't care who goes first.
I honestly, at this moment, I'm have absolutely no idea what happened last week. Okay.

Speaker 1 You did Little Baby Karen, didn't you

Speaker 1 mary bell yeah is that last week i don't know i honestly don't know what's that no

Speaker 1 last week was hometown murder oh my god what is wrong with us is there a gas leak in my apartment we can't be that stuck up if we can't remember exactly i don't think it's us being stuck up i think it's we have terrible memories yeah i think there's a gas leak in my apartment Probably.

Speaker 1 I definitely have a terrible memory anyway. I do too.
So do you want me to go first? Do you want to go first? You go first. Okay.
I'm excited about this one because it's fucked up.

Speaker 1 And I also really like finding ones that you don't know. And I didn't know, I found one that I didn't know purposely.
Where did you find it, Reddit?

Speaker 1 I might have found like a link on the Facebook page as you do and then just went crazy. Oh, okay.
Because someone posted a link that has all these Reddit links on it.

Speaker 1 There is a post with a bunch of Reddit links that I was looking through today and loved it. It was so great.

Speaker 1 Well, I did what I always do, and I go into the hometown, I go into our email and look up and like type to find if anyone has ever emailed us about it just so I can add that information in.

Speaker 1 And no one's ever emailed us about this. Oh, that's smart.
Who knows where I found it?

Speaker 1 Okay, this is the Durham Family Murders. Durham Family Murder.
Durham. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. I'm going to start with the murders.
So on February 3rd, 1972, it's a stormy, snowy night in Boone, North Carolina.

Speaker 1 And the bodies of Bryce Durham, 51, his wife Virginia, 44, and their son, Bobby Joe, who was 18, were found crowded side by side, leaning across and into a filled bathtub with their heads under the water, submerged.

Speaker 1 There's a fucking photo. No.

Speaker 1 The

Speaker 1 autopsy established that though rope burns were evident on the necks of all three of the family members,

Speaker 1 the father and son were alive when their heads were forced underwater. Wow, this really just kicked it off, didn't it? I don't know why I started with the fucked up part, but here's the thing.

Speaker 1 Well, no, no, it's it's I mean, look, you got to hook them in because the rest of the story I find

Speaker 1 amazing, and you'll see why. Yeah, yeah.
So, Virginia had been strangled to death before being plunged headfirst into the tub, but for some reason, they still put her in there, or whoever it was.

Speaker 1 The bodies of Bryce and Virginia also exhibited blunt force trauma. Bryce had a skull fracture, and Virginia's nose had been bloodied before her death, and none of the corpses bore defensive wounds.

Speaker 1 So, then I wrote, Who done it?

Speaker 1 Okay, Angela Lance Mary.

Speaker 1 Just type it away in your typewriter. Who done it? Who could it be? So Bryce, the father, owned a local successful car dealership, and Bobby Jo was a college student nearby.

Speaker 1 The Durhams, all three of them, came home together from the car dealership.

Speaker 1 And it was a crazy stormy night. It was super snowy.
It was like getting worse and worse.

Speaker 1 And a neighbor noted, saw that they came home around 9 p.m.

Speaker 1 So cut to 10 p.m.

Speaker 1 I wrote

Speaker 1 in case I forget. Yep.
Allegedly, the son, okay, so there's another kid. There's a daughter, Ginny Durham Hall.
She was 19, and she lived with her husband, Troy Hall, a little ways away in a trailer.

Speaker 1 So allegedly, the son-in-law, Troy, arrived home at the trailer

Speaker 1 where he met Ginny, and he claimed he spent the entire day at the library from like 5 p.m. till he got home.

Speaker 1 He says he came home to watch the Winter Olympics and they turned the TV on at 10 o'clock and then the TV was on the Fritz. So they put on music instead, they say.

Speaker 1 Then around 10.15, he answers a call at

Speaker 1 their home.

Speaker 1 He says that the call was from Virginia, his mother-in-law, and that she was whispering that three men were assaulting the family

Speaker 1 and then the line abruptly went dead. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 He claimed he tried to call back the home, but it was busy, it is busy. So he asked his wife, would your mom play a trick on us?

Speaker 1 And they kind of thought it was a prank, which is a real fucking funny prank.

Speaker 1 So worried, they decided to check in on the family. Didn't call the cops.
Their car wouldn't start. even though he had only been in it like 15 to 20 minutes before.

Speaker 1 And they asked the neighbor, Cecil Smart, to drive them. Cecil Small is what I meant.
Cecil Small. Small, who's now deceased, was a private investigator.

Speaker 1 And he drove the couple out to the house. Side note:

Speaker 1 Cecil was also supposedly at the scene of the Kennedy assassination. What?

Speaker 1 According to him, he was passing by the end of the motorcade and he saw a Hispanic man in the crowd with a poorly concealed scoped rifle.

Speaker 1 He was

Speaker 1 driven off course by the motorcade and came to an

Speaker 1 unfamiliar area. So he pulled over in front of the school book depository to ask for directions.
And a passerby was heading in the very same direction that he intended to travel.

Speaker 1 And thus offered the calm, neatly dressed stranger arrived. And this man, Cecil avowed to his dying day, was Lee Harvey Oswald.
Cecil's a liar. Cecil's.
So you're telling me, Cecil, small,

Speaker 1 that you not only saw the shooter of President Kennedy,

Speaker 1 the a different person, but then you also met Lee Harvey Oswald. But you can also prove that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't do it.
Didn't do it. Yeah.
And now that I'm thinking about it.

Speaker 1 And you're blaming a Hispanic man. No, okay, I just put this together and I wasn't going to add this in because I think it's in poor taste.
But Troy says that Virginia says that three

Speaker 1 black men were attacking her in her. I mean, I'm sorry, but there's a certain from like 1969

Speaker 1 and before, that's all anyone ever said. Yeah, I think from the 80s.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 it's now. You blame it on.
People do that all the time. Yeah.
So I'm kind of putting those things together now.

Speaker 1 So they get to the home almost an hour after the panicked call, but they couldn't get up the hill to the home because of the snow. So they left Ginny in the car

Speaker 1 and they said, stay here, we're going to run up there. And supposedly they thought three men were in the house, maybe not anymore, attacking and they left her in the car at the bottom of the hill.

Speaker 1 That makes no sense. No, right? No.

Speaker 1 Also, I don't like three men. That's rare that that's the right actual situation.
Right.

Speaker 1 But how would three people, two of whom were like able-bodied men, able to be overpowered without any defensive wounds? It couldn't have been one person.

Speaker 1 Unless, you know, some people just comply when there's a gun in their face. Yes, a lot of people do.
Yeah, even though they mean it's the smart thing to do. Right.

Speaker 1 All right. So they get up the hill.
They get to the house.

Speaker 1 They enter the home through a broken garage door where they found the place ransacked and the water was still running in the tub that was full of the family.

Speaker 1 They got, they, they skedaddled, I said, which I. spelled right, which is weird, and jumped into the car, intending to drive off, still not having called the police.

Speaker 1 The car was stuck, so they made it to a neighbor's, and they finally called the police.

Speaker 1 So, police suggested the ransacked house seemed like a stage robbery, which I'm wondering, like, you hear that all the time. Are they, I want to know if they're ever wrong about that.

Speaker 1 That it really was ransacked

Speaker 1 in sincerity. I feel like there can't be that much, that huge of a difference between a ransacked because it's being burglarized.

Speaker 1 I think when people burglar, this is just me talking off the top of my head. Yeah, I want to know your opinion.
Okay.

Speaker 1 First of all, I want to officially change my old opinion, too. I don't know why I said 1969 and below when racism is such a humongous problem in this country.
It came. I don't know.

Speaker 1 But I'll go ahead to, again, freely give my opinion.

Speaker 1 When people burglarize a house, they're looking for valuables and they know where people hide valuables.

Speaker 1 Good burglars want to get in and get out. They don't want to wreck people's houses.
They don't go through every single drawer because they know that people hide.

Speaker 1 I mean, there have been studies about it where it's like people hide their stuff in a sock drawer people hide their stuff in a freezer people hide their safes behind pictures so now everyone knows where you hide your stuff that's right come to your house my safe is behind my picture um

Speaker 1 so cutting open a couch or you know there's like when when things are overly ruined i think is when rocks are like like furniture thrown yes that doesn't need to be because there there's photos of the house that's ransacked and it's like there's an there's an ottoman like thrown onto the couch yeah that there's no, there's no reason I've done that, right?

Speaker 1 And also, you're just taking extra time as the burglar. That could be time where the cops could be on their way.
Why would you stand around throwing shit?

Speaker 1 Well, here's the fucked up thing about this that that proves they're probably right is that there was an envelope full of cash sitting like out on one of the dining room chairs.

Speaker 1 And even in the photo of the crime scene, you can see it. They had brought it home because they couldn't make it to the bank

Speaker 1 after

Speaker 1 so it was just sitting there? So it was just sitting there and it wasn't taken. So there's no need to put the ottoman on the couch.
No,

Speaker 1 it was a fake, I believe it was a fake ransacking, but I'm just wondering, you hear that all the time. Oh, yeah.
I wish we could look at photos.

Speaker 1 I wish like how the 911 call we wanted to do where like we listened to two that are real and one that isn't. Ooh, that's one I'd be willing to do.
Yeah, that's one that wouldn't give you nightmares.

Speaker 1 That one I would love to do because who, I mean, who really knows? But it would be to understand how detectives and investigators have a sense of things would be fascinating to me.

Speaker 1 Can any detectives out there please send us some crime scene photos?

Speaker 1 Don't and don't tell them. Just sneak them out of the

Speaker 1 evidence locker where the cocaine is. Sneak them out, mail them to George's secret POH.

Speaker 1 Add a little Coke in there if you want.

Speaker 1 It's not a big deal. I won't be mad.

Speaker 1 People do it all the time. I'm kidding.
Don't do Coke. We all think it's bad.
Yeah. So, okay.
I'm speaking for Stephen.

Speaker 1 Stephen wants the Coke. Stephen hates Coke.

Speaker 1 So they say it seemed like a stage robbery. There was an envelope full of cash and

Speaker 1 nothing much of value had been taken. And shortly after, the car that the Derms had at the house, which was from the car dealership, was found in an embankment.

Speaker 1 And it seemed like it had been placed there rather than crashed. And in the back was like a pillowcase full of like some silver, you know, some fucking silver.
Nothing that. Like utensils?

Speaker 1 yeah yeah yeah

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 1 something a rube robber might take right a fool so I mean clearly my

Speaker 1 clearly the son-in-law okay here's the fucking twist okay 40 years later it's still unsolved despite all that evidence that clearly points at the son-in-law

Speaker 1 but what do they have like motive that the son-in-law the son-in-law has never been a suspect.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 And he's a lawyer now. So, all right.
Oh, here's what I think happened. I think, and Ginny was the sole inheritor, inherited a quarter of a million dollars

Speaker 1 in 70s money.

Speaker 1 And that's 25 million in today's money. Is it? Oh, like, you're good.
Wow, Karen. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 If it's numbers, I'm definitely lying. I love those conversions when they're like, this is how much it is in today's money.
I know. I just read one today that was like 100,000 in the 70s.

Speaker 1 Ah, shit, now I don't remember what it was. I believed you.

Speaker 1 I believed you in the way that when I have to ask you about Roman numerals, you could say anything to me and I would believe you. That I knew.
That was, that I knew. Okay.

Speaker 1 I'll always tell you when I'm lying.

Speaker 1 I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 Okay, so I just think like he hired a hit, some hitman. If a phone call happened, it was the people at the scene.
saying it's done and Ginny didn't know about it.

Speaker 1 And so he said that phone call was actually this thing instead. Right.
Or the phone call never happened and she was in on it.

Speaker 1 Do you think the neighbor was in on it? That it was Mr. Lucky at the assassination? It sounds, I don't know enough about him, but based on those two little details,

Speaker 1 the racist, the blaming someone else, which I don't know, it's the CIA that killed Kennedy, right? I mean.

Speaker 1 And yeah, his getting involved in it and being a private detective, which I feel like you know more about how to commit a crime well

Speaker 1 than otherwise. Yeah, you see it all the time.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'll say this. What's suspicious to me that just dawned on me? Why would that woman call her son-in-law instead of the cops? And when there are three men in her house.
That's a good point.

Speaker 1 And in addition to that, the family didn't like the son-in-law. They were trying to get her.

Speaker 1 To leave him. Because she was only 19, you see.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So they were trying, they were like against this marriage why would she call them and there's so many instances in this whole crime that it's like why weren't the cops called wow yeah starting with

Speaker 1 with the mother which probably never happened so that's why the cops never called yeah and then multiple times with the son-in-law and the daughter weren't called right so

Speaker 1 yeah crazy and then da da da da da okay

Speaker 1 There's still, they're still looking into it. There's a $40,000 reward offered.

Speaker 1 And someone said, investigator said, in my opinion, Mrs. Derm never made that phone call.

Speaker 1 When some people come into your house to kill you, they're not going to let you make a phone call. Right.
Of course. I speculate,

Speaker 1 maybe the call happened, but from a hitman that they hired.

Speaker 1 And okay, I also want to give a shout out to

Speaker 1 Jodi.com. No, wait, it's called I Did It for Jodie, j-o-d-i-e.com.
That is a really cool, like a true crime blog that had a lot of good information. Is that name in reference to Mark David Chapman?

Speaker 1 Possibly. Tried to kill Reagan for Jodi Foster.
Maybe. Oh, wait.
No, I'm sorry. Jody Arius?

Speaker 1 I've never seen you. What did I? You never,

Speaker 1 I could have, I think I got the name wrong. Was it Hinkley? I'm thinking of John Hinkley.
I never. That tried to kill kill Reagan.

Speaker 1 Mark David Chapman is the one that killed John Lennon. Yep.

Speaker 1 And then you just threw Jodi Arias in there for fun.

Speaker 1 Facts, you guys, we're strong on facts. So we're passionate about a lot of different names.
I did it for Jodi.com. Good little true crime blog.
That's very cool. I had a lot of cool information.

Speaker 1 And I fucking went all over the place for this thing. I was so fascinated by it.
I just can't believe.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 There's just nothing. but they didn't even he was never even a suspect

Speaker 1 that's weird it was a small town small town only unsolved murder wow yeah

Speaker 1 is he still like you said he became a lawyer he's a lawyer he's still they're divorced she won't now she now won't cooperate with the cops anymore she's like i gave him all the information i could huh yeah

Speaker 1 What do you think? Was that anticlimactic? Do I ask that every time? Yeah, I think you do. Really do.

Speaker 1 Well, it's always when

Speaker 1 there's no resolution. I mean, it's always just, it makes me want to ask 95 questions.
Which are the ones I love? I love when there's like, I love a good mystery.

Speaker 1 You know what I was thinking about is that other one that you had that was from Japan or whatever. Yes.
Where they killed the family. Totally.
I think about that one all the time. Who the fuck was it?

Speaker 1 It's enough information that it should have been able to be solved. That drives me crazy.

Speaker 1 Well, the frustrating thing, too, is that it's not like when you're on this side of it and you don't know, you have it in your head that it's going to be some fascinating reveal.

Speaker 1 And it's always like, oh, that guy.

Speaker 1 That's why, yeah, I mean,

Speaker 1 that's why I like cold cases because you can imagine that it's,

Speaker 1 it's more, it's deeper than just the stupidity of some killing someone. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're back. I had a lot of questions back then.
Do you have any answers now? I do. I have actual updates and this case, I would call it solved, but there's still a mystery.

Speaker 1 So, it's kind of like, you know, kind of comforting.

Speaker 1 So, 50 years after the murders in 2022, officials identified the perpetrators of this crime because the case was reopened in 2019 after a man came forward saying that his father once admitted to killing three people in the North Carolina mountains during a thunderstorm.

Speaker 1 And so, the father's name was Billy Sunday Burt,

Speaker 1 and he was the only suspect still alive.

Speaker 1 And he gave up the names of his accomplices, which were Bobby Jean Gaddis, Charles David Reed, and someone named Billy Wayne Davis, which is actually the name of a comedian, friend of ours.

Speaker 1 So that's kind of fucking crazy, right? That's truly wild. I mean, he's not involved.
He's truly not involved, really not his style. Not at all.
Actually, it is a part of our origin story. Totally.

Speaker 1 He was there when we first met and first started talking about that. Yeah, he's married to Aaron Dewey Lennox.
um

Speaker 1 and so all of these people were members of the so-called dixie mafia which we've talked about before yeah and so the dixie mafia according to nbc news is a georgia based loosely organized network believed to have engaged in dozens of violent crimes across the southeast in the 1960s and the 1970s so it's the mafia it's the south yeah the thing is davis confirms that the killing was a contract killing but the problem is we don't know who the person who ordered it was and why.

Speaker 1 So that's kind of a big deal. That's very important.
Yeah. And we speculate so much in the story that I'm kind of uncomfortable with it.

Speaker 1 We do it in a way that we did in the beginning where we didn't think about

Speaker 1 who we were throwing accusations at. Right.
Like the daughter, the son-in-law. Like we never said alleged until much later.
Of course not. Yeah.
So it's true.

Speaker 1 We were just sitting there like laying on a couch in in your apartment thinking like we were just hypothesizing totally exactly yes just like what if what if and yes that kind of sensitivity it just took us that's a perspective i just wasn't considering right and i feel the same way about the john menae ramsey case where it's just like how fun is it just to be like what if it's this what if it's that what if it's that but we're doing it in public And what if more than likely it's not?

Speaker 1 Right. And you're just causing more pain and wounds.
So. Right.

Speaker 1 And it goes hand in hand with like, we're not the kind of people that would assume a bunch of people would want to listen to us do what we're doing. Right.

Speaker 1 And that was like, that's just our, you know, that's our learning curve

Speaker 1 that makes this show a little painful and a little like, we don't want to look back and be like, oh. that means we're bad people.
Yeah. Because there is a real

Speaker 1 naivete, if not straight up ignorance. Right.
And as you say, we were always like working from the place where it was, which was,

Speaker 1 you know, people claiming on newspapers that fucking Burke Ramsey did it. You know, it's like, that was the culture.

Speaker 1 We are the national inquirer generation where that little murdered girl's face was on that newspaper in the grocery store. When you were 15 years old, you were staring at her every single day.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're desensitized to

Speaker 1 completely. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so the son-in-law Troy passed away in 2019. It remains unclear if he had any involvement whatsoever.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 yeah, that's it. So I don't know if we'll ever know who ordered that hit.
Wow. I know.

Speaker 1 I wonder if there's like Dixie Mafia. There's a file cabinet somewhere.
Oh, you got to hope that it's just like some weird reveal where,

Speaker 1 yeah, at some point. Hey, was your grandpa in the Dixie Mafia? Will you tell us about it at My Favorite Murder at Gmail? That has to be a hometown, right? Yeah, for real.

Speaker 1 Any kind of Dixie Mafia, anything that you might know. Yeah.
For a second, I thought you were asking me if my grandpa was, right? I'm like, my, my grandpa was, was from Galway, Ireland. Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 Almost as likely as my grandpa being.

Speaker 1 All right, so let's listen to Karen's story. This one.

Speaker 1 This is an epic, classic MFM. It has classic merch, but we're going to tell you about two.
Classic merch that I wear around the office every day.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's still like one of the, I think it's like up there with Mary Vincent's story of like, you know, core memories of stories in my heart for sure yeah yeah all right so this is karen's story about the survival of terry joe duperault

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Speaker 1 All right. Well, you want to hear mine? Absolutely.
Well, mine

Speaker 1 is pretty interesting.

Speaker 1 I remembered that I read this book called

Speaker 1 Let me see. The Bible.

Speaker 1 God, I love it. And I'm here to tell you about it, too.

Speaker 1 It's called

Speaker 1 Alone Orphaned on the Sea,

Speaker 1 which is what I wanted to call my book, but forget it.

Speaker 1 Oh, sorry, Orphaned on the Ocean. I can call mine a orphaned on the sea now.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I got really into for a little while before I ever saw the show I Survived, which I cannot get. on the lifetime on my Apple TV.
I can't get it on my laptop. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 I can't, it will not let me access, even for money, it won't let me watch old episodes of I Survived. And I think that's wrong.
And someone needs to do something.

Speaker 1 We need, listen, is it Lifetime?

Speaker 1 Well, it's like lifetime.com. They only have them on their website, I think.
You're missing out on a great opportunity for a shout-out, and instead, Karen's just disappointed. I'm just mad.

Speaker 1 But I love all your movies. Anyhow,

Speaker 1 so I read that, I was super

Speaker 1 into these stories of survival for a little while in the, I would say, mid-90s. Maybe I was having a hard time myself.
I can't remember.

Speaker 1 And I remember reading this book and being fascinated by it.

Speaker 1 And the thing that drew me to the book initially is on the cover of the book, there's a picture and it's just the open ocean and then a tiny, in the middle, a tiny white raft and a little girl sitting in it.

Speaker 1 No, is it a photograph? It's a photograph of the person I'm about to tell you about and how she was found. Losing my mind.
Losing my mind. Can I look at the photo? Should I wait? I'm going to wait.

Speaker 1 I have the picture on my phone for you. Everyone go look at the Durham family murder bathtub scene.
And then it's not gruesome, except they're all dead. Oh, my God, this little girl.

Speaker 1 Alone. Horrible on the ocean.

Speaker 1 All right. So this is the story of Terry Jo Deperot.

Speaker 1 And she was from Green Bay, Wisconsin. When this happened to her, she was 11 years old.
And her father, Arthur, was an optometrist from

Speaker 1 also from Green Bay, obviously. She wasn't from a different area.

Speaker 1 And Arthur had always dreamed of taking a year off and sailing around like the Bahamas.

Speaker 1 basically sailing the world with his family. He had been in World War II and he had been in

Speaker 1 like the tropics. And so he thought that would be amazing, especially it was coming up on winter in

Speaker 1 Green Bay,

Speaker 1 and yeah, right. And so he'd always wanted to basically live on a boat for like a year.

Speaker 1 And so his idea was he's gonna take the family down to the Bahamas.

Speaker 1 They're gonna rent a sailboat and try it out for a week, see if the kids actually like it or if he's just full of beans, and then see

Speaker 1 where their adventure will take them. Okay, so they fly down to um florida and they charter uh

Speaker 1 a two-masted sailboat called the bluebell and they hire captain julian harvey who is a former air force fighter pilot um and an experienced sailor and they have him captain the ship and um does that seem weird to like be like my whole family and some guy Yeah, well, the guy brought his wife Mary.

Speaker 1 Okay. So I think they were kind of acting as like the casual crew.

Speaker 1 It was a swinger situation. It was super key party.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 because this was also in, oh, this was 1961. Okay.

Speaker 1 So they sailed out of Florida on November 8th, 1961, and they sailed east toward the island of Bimini.

Speaker 1 Bimini, Bimini, Boo.

Speaker 1 Sorry. And then they went on to Sandy Point on the Great Abaco Island.
And the family spent a week there snorkeling and collecting shells on pink and white beaches.

Speaker 1 They just had a gorgeous vacation, and they had such a good time that Dr.

Speaker 1 Dupero told the village commissioner because they had to fill out paperwork to go back to America, that he planned to return before Christmas. So they were super into the sailboating family dream.

Speaker 1 Cool.

Speaker 1 So then they left and they set sail for home. And that night around 9 p.m., Terry Jo headed downstairs to her sleeping quarters in the back of the boat.

Speaker 1 Her brother and little sister had stayed upstairs in the cockpit with the parents. And around 11, she woke up because she heard her brother yelling, Daddy, help.

Speaker 1 And then she heard stomping sounds and then it went quiet. And she laid in her bunk, shaking and confused and not sure what was going on.
And she's 11? She's 11 years old. Oh my gosh.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So finally, she sneaks up to the main cabin

Speaker 1 and she sees her mother and brother lying in a big pool of blood. Holy shit.

Speaker 1 So she said the second she saw them, she knew they were dead. So she went past them and snuck up

Speaker 1 to the cockpit hatch and she stuck her head out and she saw more blood on the deck and she saw a knife on the ground. Oh my gosh.
So she crawls out of the hatch because she's trying to find her dad.

Speaker 1 And Captain Harvey runs at her and growls, get back down there and pushes her down the stairs. Holy shit.

Speaker 1 So she closes her eyes, runs past her brother and mom, and goes back to her bunk and gets into her

Speaker 1 cabin and gets back in the bunk. And she lays there, she doesn't know what to do.
She's obviously probably in shock, freaking out. Then she hears sloshing and she looks down, and

Speaker 1 the floor of her sleeping quarters is covered in oily water and she realizes the ship is sinking. Oh my god.

Speaker 1 So she's afraid to move but she looks up and then suddenly the captain's standing in the doorway staring at her and he's carrying her brother's rifle and he stares at her for a little bit then he just turns and walks away.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 she lays in bed, frozen stiff, doesn't know what to do. But pretty soon the water's up to her mattress.
Oh my gosh. So she knew she had to get out of there.

Speaker 1 So she wades through waist-deep water, out of her cabin,

Speaker 1 out through or out of her quarters, out through the main cabin. She goes back up on deck and she looks over the side and she sees that the life raft is already in the water.

Speaker 1 And Captain Harvey walks up to her and hands her the rope. that connects connecting the life raft and says, hold on to this.
I'll be back in a second.

Speaker 1 And she's in such shock and fear, she drops the rope. And so as he's walking away, he looks and sees that the rope is going and the dinghy starting to float away.
So he dives in after it. And

Speaker 1 he dives in after it.

Speaker 1 And she watched him swim after the boat and disappear into the night. Oh my God.
Oh my God. I have so many questions.
Go on.

Speaker 1 I stole that last line directly from the Reader's Digest article that I was reading about this story. I read several articles about it, but Reader's Digest was the main one.

Speaker 1 And I just want to thank them for being an American classic. I miss that.
I used to read this when I was a kid. That's all I read.

Speaker 1 When you went to the bathroom at your aunt's house, I didn't want to say it, but that's all about Reader's Digest. Oh man, cover to cover.
So, okay.

Speaker 1 So, it's an 11-year-old girl standing on a sinking boat

Speaker 1 who's witnessed her family murdered, part of her family murdered.

Speaker 1 What does she do? Does she cry? Does she cower? No, she remembers that there is a small cork

Speaker 1 raft in the cockpit.

Speaker 1 So she runs and grabs it. And as she does, as she grabs a hold of it, and they don't describe this that much, but

Speaker 1 she basically runs forward to the front of the boat, grabs the life raft. By the time she gets there, the boat is sinking under her feet.

Speaker 1 So she has just enough time to jump onto it as the boat goes under the water.

Speaker 1 So she basically went down with this ship and then jumped onto this little cork life raft. Holy shit.
So

Speaker 1 now she's alone at sea in a tiny raft.

Speaker 1 It's three feet long. I mean, you saw it in that picture.
She barely, she doesn't fit into it. She couldn't lay down in it.
It's half her, it's probably like can hold her legs. So

Speaker 1 she has a blouse and pants on. She's freezing cold.
It's pitch black. There's no moon out.
She can't see. So she keeps getting hit with huge waves.

Speaker 1 And this salt water's getting in her eyes and stinging her eyes. She can't open her eyes and she's afraid that Captain Harvey is nearby.
Oh my God. So

Speaker 1 then it starts raining. So her first night out in the water, bad news.
Okay. Anytime you're lost, you're out at sea, I wouldn't be looking for good news.

Speaker 1 Although I wonder if the not salt water, that it was raining down, was helpful in some way, like she could drink it or something. Oh, maybe.
You mean hydration-wise? Yeah.

Speaker 1 For a second, I thought you meant, I wonder if she she was in a freshwater.

Speaker 1 Was she in a fish ten? Was she, did she go to Lake Havasu?

Speaker 1 Okay. So she wakes up the next morning.
The sun comes out. She's not cold anymore.
Now, of course, she's boiling hot.

Speaker 1 Oh, I've seen Joe versus Volcano. I know what it's like.
Okay, yeah, you know what it's like to be on a raft, but his raft was nice. It was pretty sweet.
It was huge, and he had that great suitcase.

Speaker 1 Her raft was slowly disintegrating. No.
Yes. Sweet baby angel.

Speaker 1 So she has to hang her legs over the side to float, like the plastic, rubbery part that has the air in it is the part that's not disintegrating.

Speaker 1 So she has to sit on the edge and then hang her legs over the side. Then parrot fish come and start biting her legs.
What are parrot fish? They sound like dicks.

Speaker 1 I don't know. It sounds like a they start biting her legs.
I bet they're the ones that you see in tropical fish tanks. Yeah.

Speaker 1 They think they're all big with their fancy colors and their teeth.

Speaker 1 Fucking shark food.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 that's her first day. It sucks.
The next day. It's her first day.
It sucks. It sucks.
This is the best description I've ever heard.

Speaker 1 The next day she wakes up, her tongue is swelling in her mouth because of all the salt that she's taking in and no hydration. And then she sees a plane.

Speaker 1 And she's waving. She takes her shirt off and waves and waves and waves this white shirt over her head.
It dips down toward her a little bit and then flies away and never comes back. Wait, what? No.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That was how she was going to get saved.
Nope. So that afternoon, she spots some shapes swimming in the water about 30 yards away, and she's scared to death because she thinks they're sharks.

Speaker 1 Friend or foe. When they come closer, it's a pot of porpoises that swim with her

Speaker 1 for hours

Speaker 1 and hours. Never, no.
Now we all cry at the beauty of nature. Are you fine? Are you? This is 100% for sure.
Yes, this is from her. This is her book, Alone, Orphan of the Ocean.

Speaker 1 What did they, what did they? Because I know, but like, how did it happen?

Speaker 1 Oh my god, have you ever seen those specials where they have children that have like brain damage or some kind of disease get into water with a dolphin?

Speaker 1 They do studies and their brain function improves when they're around dolphins. Dolphins have like a weird fucking children ESP and they know when something's in the water and needs their help.

Speaker 1 And they're beautiful creatures And you have to stop killing them. Okay.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 That was amazing.

Speaker 1 I thought you were really crying for a second.

Speaker 1 What if I was accusing you personally of killing that? Georgia. Please, with all your tuna.

Speaker 1 All right. Okay, so that night, the sea is totally still.

Speaker 1 Now, I'm going to admit. to a half-lie in this because I remember this from the book, but I read this book almost 20 years ago.
Okay. So

Speaker 1 who knows what bullshit I've layered on top of this, but I'm pretty sure I remember this

Speaker 1 that the sea, this one night was still, so she could see the stars like down

Speaker 1 to the horizon. Wow.

Speaker 1 And there was bioluminescent algae in the water. So it was all like, she basically said she wasn't that scared until the very end because these cool things kept happening.
And that was one of them.

Speaker 1 That she saw like that the whole ocean was glowing green and then she could see every single star. This reminds me of James and the Giant Peach.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Remember when they were in the ocean and the peach? I fucking love that book. I read that one was my favorite book in the whole world.

Speaker 1 Except for the copy I had, because it was from like 1979, because it was when I was a child.

Speaker 1 There was an illustration of James at the beginning that is the saddest picture of any child ever. I tweeted it one time.
Oh my God. It's so sad.

Speaker 1 When his parents got killed by a fucking rhino that escaped from the zoo. Yeah.
Hardly. Maybe that's why I always thought my

Speaker 1 parents were going to die because that was my favorite book. Yes, because Rogdahl liked to plant those pretty early and often.
Just be prepared to be an orphan just in case.

Speaker 1 Which I appreciate to a degree. He should have said, be prepared to be an orphan of the sea.
Yeah. Because that could also happen.

Speaker 1 Okay, tie it in. Go ahead.
So I had to bring it back.

Speaker 1 That night, when she fell asleep, she dreamed she saw her father peacefully drinking a glass of red wine and telling her, come on, we're leaving.

Speaker 1 So when she woke up on the third day, she was really sore. Her skin was burnt through her clothes.

Speaker 1 All her joints ached.

Speaker 1 She had been balancing on the edge of that raft because almost all the bottom was now gone.

Speaker 1 And she started hallucinating. She would see tiny islands with one palm tree on them and then start.
paddling, paddling, paddling. And then when she'd get to them, they would disappear.
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 On the fourth far side comic. I know.

Speaker 1 On the fourth day, she she didn't wake up in the morning. She was losing consciousness.
She was close to death. And when she finally did wake up, she woke up because she felt a shadow over her.

Speaker 1 And when she opened her eyes, she said she saw a huge whale hanging in the air above her. Wow.

Speaker 1 But what it actually was, was a Greek freighter that miraculously had someone had spotted her on this Greek freighter.

Speaker 1 And that's the person, one of the people, one of the sailors sailors on this ship took that picture that I showed you. Holy shit.
The second they saw her. So that was her still lost at sea, basically.

Speaker 1 Oh, and she didn't even know yet.

Speaker 1 So she, for her, the experience for her was a whale was hanging over her, and then she was being lifted in the air, and then she was in big, strong arms, and then she was asleep.

Speaker 1 And the next thing she knew, she woke up and she was at the hospital in Florida. Big strong arms.
Big strong arms. And a whale.
And Greek arms. So they'd have that real good hair.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Real good wrist. Shiny.

Speaker 1 Maybe a pipe. Probably

Speaker 1 smells like a pipe. He smells like a pipe.
He'd smell like a pipe. He'd definitely have a big beard.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. Okay.
This is just our fantasy now. Yes, this is a different podcast.
All right.

Speaker 1 So she got helicoptered to the hospital in Miami. She was treated for dehydration and severe sunburn.
In a week, she recovered with no serious injuries. Holy shit.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 not so for

Speaker 1 Captain Julian Julian Harvey. Oh, hell no.
I was going to call him doctor.

Speaker 1 So Captain Harvey was rescued the next day by a lookout

Speaker 1 on an oil tanker that was headed for Puerto Rico. And when they found him, he had the dead body of Terry Joe's seven-year-old sister, Renee, in the life raft.
What? Why?

Speaker 1 He told the Coast Guard that he had found her in the water and tried to revive her. And so basically, but

Speaker 1 the autopsy showed that that she

Speaker 1 drowned.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 he, the story he told the Coast Guard was that the Bluebell was damaged in a squall in the middle of the night. And

Speaker 1 his wife and the Duperos were injured when the masts and rigging collapsed. He said gas lines in the engine room ruptured and the ship caught fire as it slowly sank.

Speaker 1 He said he'd managed to launch the dinghy and raft and dive overboard, but the tangled rigging had trapped everyone else on board.

Speaker 1 The police were totally suspicious, but there was nothing to prove otherwise.

Speaker 1 And then three days later,

Speaker 1 Terry Joe shows up, survives.

Speaker 1 And when Harvey finds out that she survived, he killed himself in his hotel room. Holy shit.
So.

Speaker 1 Turns out they do some investigating, and Harvey had serious financial problems, and he had just taken out a life insurance policy on his wife, Mary.

Speaker 1 Fucking life insurance policies.

Speaker 1 There needs to be more steps before you can just take out a life insurance policy on your wife. Yeah.
Or husband. Yeah.
Or children.

Speaker 1 The police theorized that he had killed his wife for the insurance money, but was caught in the act by Arthur Deborah,

Speaker 1 prompting Harvey to murder him and the rest of his family.

Speaker 1 It was found, later found, that Mary had been Harvey's sixth wife. What? And not the first to die while married to him.
Come on.

Speaker 1 He had miraculously survived a car accident that had claimed another wife of his and her mother.

Speaker 1 Both his yacht Torbatross, which is a terrible fucking name, and his powerboat Valiant, had both sunk under suspicious circumstances. They had all yielded large insurance settlements.

Speaker 1 Turns out, Captain Harvey was kind of a serial killer. Oh my God.
Terry Jo was raised in Wisconsin by her aunt. She never talked about the ordeal.

Speaker 1 Her family told everyone not to bring it up in front of her. So she lived with this for years and years and years.
Does that seem mentally healthy to you? It is not mentally healthy.

Speaker 1 It's the worst thing you could do. Talk about your trauma.
You have to talk about it. Talk about it to someone who is trained professionally.
Someone cool and who's trained.

Speaker 1 You have to talk about things like,

Speaker 1 I mean, come on. I think people, I think these days people know that, but this was the 60s.
It was Wisconsin. Yeah, present way down deep.

Speaker 1 This is, I mean, that's, you know, that's what a lot of families do. My family is very much like, don't bring it up.
Yeah. We don't want to bother anybody.
Right.

Speaker 1 So she finally went to therapy as an adult.

Speaker 1 And 50 years later, she wrote a book with a survival psychologist named Richard Logan called

Speaker 1 Alone, Orphaned on the Ocean. Oh my God.
And she actually took sodium amethol, which I believe is true. Truth Sam.

Speaker 1 So that she could remember everything.

Speaker 1 So she went all the way back. So fucking cool.
Yeah. Holy shit.
That's our girl, Terry Joe Depero. I want to read that.
And she has an I Survived.

Speaker 1 Of course she does. Really? Yeah.
I want to see that. But I didn't pick this one because I saw it on I Survived.
Because the I Survived doesn't, for me, doesn't tell you enough.

Speaker 1 They take all the good ones. They really, I mean,

Speaker 1 they do. That is so...

Speaker 1 I have never heard that before. That's a good one, right? Very good.
11 years old. I think you won.
Is this a game? I think you won. It can't be a game, please.

Speaker 1 Well, also, if it's a game,

Speaker 1 when you have a big

Speaker 1 Captain Harvey

Speaker 1 is a serial killer reveal, I mean. Yeah.
But also a girl surviving in a boat. That's pretty fucking sweet.
It's pretty goddamn cinematic.

Speaker 1 Can I add that none of the hands of the family in the bathtub were tied behind their back? Where were they tied? They weren't tied.

Speaker 1 So maybe they were unconscious from being strangled. Yes, they would have to be because there was no defensive, there's no defensive, there's no fighting, but their hands are free.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but yeah, yes, that doesn't make sense. No, okay.

Speaker 1 I'm not trying to one-up you, I'm just

Speaker 1 remembered that part, please, please.

Speaker 1 Um, but also, you said the wife was strangled, but the other two had rope burns around their neck, like they were hung?

Speaker 1 No, I think they were all strangled by, oh, there was like a, like a, some kind of rope that would tie like that they got at the house so

Speaker 1 so it's not like they brought these weapons with them whoever killed them right right and this might be a good time to say considering the fact that that guy's a lawyer that everything that we accuse him of is alleged alleged

Speaker 1 and not proven speculation gossip yeah podcasting fuck you're right

Speaker 1 please don't tell on us and that was the end of the podcast that they did. Ended.
Not for me. All the ladies think you're smart.
You think you're funny and smart. Guess what? Is that how he sounds?

Speaker 1 He's from North Carolina, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah. I don't know where that accent is.
No, I buy it. Well, that's some fucked up shit.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 go to our Instagram account.

Speaker 1 Instagram.com/slash my favorite murder. Go to Twitter, my fave murder at Twitter.

Speaker 1 Facebook page. Fucking hang out with us.
Hang out. Oh, but the one thing I will say

Speaker 1 is now we're getting lots of recommendations. If it's on, let's stop pretending Netflix has a bunch of choices.

Speaker 1 Netflix has like, let's say,

Speaker 1 20 British shows. Yeah.

Speaker 1 We've seen them all. If it's on Netflix or HBO.

Speaker 1 The challenge to you is to find a British procedural I haven't seen. Good luck.
And the person who suggested DCI Banks, I laugh in your face.

Speaker 1 Just kidding. I don't even think that's what they suggested.
But I mean, I've seen, I've honestly seen them all. Someone said I've seen them all, including

Speaker 1 Midsummer Mysteries, which really is like total grandma TV. Yeah, I've tried to watch that one too.
Oh my gosh, but it's very grandma-y.

Speaker 1 You love that shit, man. I do.
Sorry, that was just, I had to tag that on. No, I get it.
I appreciate it. It's kind of sweet.

Speaker 1 The intentions are sweet, of course, but also enough.

Speaker 1 Well, just give me something new. Yeah.
Yeah, that's all for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, you guys, thanks for listening. You guys.

Speaker 1 Oh, haven't even asked you yet. Yeah.
Have I? You're jumping your line. Do you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 There he goes.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're back. I still think he won.
this week.

Speaker 1 I mean, I mean, well, I think this story is so,

Speaker 1 it's extraordinary. And there's nothing better, I think, than a survival story, unless it's a survival story of a little girl.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Who, by all accounts, should not have survived that.
No. It's a fucking miracle.
It's a miracle.

Speaker 1 And like, and the beginning, it's not just like, oh, she was on a cruise ship and the cruise ship went down. Yeah.
What she experienced before she then became stranded at sea

Speaker 1 is so horrifying and like traumatic from a movie, just wild. Yeah.
What an incredible, incredible survival story. Do you have any updates? I do have a few.
Terry Jo has a different last name.

Speaker 1 Her three children and her grandchildren live near her. She spent 14 years as a water management specialist in the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources.
Wow.

Speaker 1 And she says, quote, I went on to protect the water that had protected me as a little girl. Water is life, and it is soothing for me to be on the beach.

Speaker 1 I find I can think clearly, relax, and feel closer to my lost family. That's so beautiful and pure because she could have been deathly afraid for the rest of her life of water and the ocean.
Yes.

Speaker 1 And that would make perfect sense.

Speaker 1 But to embrace it as the thing that saved her, not the thing that tormented her, you know, for all those days she was out there is like such an interesting, like, I think we should all take a little something from that.

Speaker 1 She seems very, yes. She seems like the kind of person that having gone through a thing that a lot of us would be like, I don't know if I could actually get through that, especially at that age.

Speaker 1 She didn't just get through it, but she has, especially in that book. If you haven't read her book, you absolutely should.

Speaker 1 But it's like the philosophical part of her is just like, well, here's what we're all going to learn from this. Yeah.
And here's what it means to me. I get to make up what it means to me.

Speaker 1 Not, you know, not the circumstances. Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah, let's all do that. It's very cool.
So So, when this came out, my dear friend Kat Solon, who's an incredible artist, came up with a rad design. It's a little girl on a raft.

Speaker 1 It's like a little cartoon drawing, but it's like

Speaker 1 it invokes so many emotions. The drawing.
This is such beautiful art. It really is.
It's truly my favorite. Yeah, Kat's so good at that.
So we're going to sell it for one week.

Speaker 1 Bring it back. You can pre-order a limited edition zip hoodie or mug, and you can get that at exactlyrightstore.com.
So run run over there and get that.

Speaker 1 It's taken from the real picture that was taken from the deck of the freighter of her rescuer. So like it,

Speaker 1 it's beautiful art, but then it's also like it's the art is based on a true story. It's just like the coolest, coolest.
And we're going to close this pre-order at midnight on January 21st.

Speaker 1 So don't wait. Go get it.
If you like that art, you can finally get it again for the first time in years. Yay.

Speaker 1 So this episode, as we were talking about, originally titled I 20 ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice Cheonti.

Speaker 1 So if we were going to rename it today, what are some ideas of what we should pick?

Speaker 1 Okay, if we were to name it now based on something we said during the episode, how about my safe is behind my picture?

Speaker 1 When you were talking about where burglars know where to hide stuff in the home and you just fucking told everyone, basically. My safe is behind my picture.

Speaker 1 It's a good, I could see that on our iTunes, you know? That's right. Although I don't have a safe.

Speaker 1 And then I also said, now we all cry after telling you about how the dolphins swam with her. The dolphins swam with her.

Speaker 1 Stayed with her. Incredible.
And they probably chased those fucking parrot fish away. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 And those asshole sharks. Oh, my God.
I think now we all cry. Now we all cry.
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one.
All right. Thanks for looking back at the past with us.
And we like doing it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that was another one, another rewind. We did it.
We'll do it again. Why not? Stay sexy.
And don't get murdered. Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 No one brings out your inner monster like a bad neighbor.

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Speaker 1 It's a game of cat and mouse that sets them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The Beast and Me now playing only on Netflix.
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Goodbye.

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Goodbye.