Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 28: I 28 His Liver With Some Fava Beans and A Nice Chianti

This is exactly right.

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1. Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer.
He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.
At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley Season 2 starting April 9th on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My favorite love with new commentary, updates, and insights.
You are welcome. Okay, so today we're recapping episode 28, which we named I 28 His Liver with some fava beans and a nice candy.
That has stood the test of time. I agree.
I love that one. So join us as we take

you back to August 4th, 2016, because now we can all be day one listeners.

Huzzah. Let's listen to the intro of episode 28.

Karen, hi.

Hi.

Hi.

You pointed at me to talk first tonight.

I wanted you to do the...

I did it last time, trying to make a start.

Oh, hey, this...

Oh, fuck, I gotta turn my phone off.

Sorry.

Oh, hey, this is...

Hello?

Who's this? Show business? It's a telemarketereter do you mind if i take this can i do can i talk about some products with this person yeah i give them all my my social security number yeah everything over the podcast just record it all um welcome to my favorite murder this is basically what the podcast is yes it's going to be this um for another two and three quarters hours. Yep.
Enjoy. Yeah.
There you go.

Or goodbye. what the podcast is yes it's going to be this um for another two and three quarters hours yep enjoy yeah there you go or goodbye forever can i start out real quick just by plugging just for the skippers who skip to the stories don't miss this don't miss this we have new motherfucking shirts yes and they're good they're good right yeah, there's something.
Well, to me there, when you sent me that picture, there's something very visceral about the original logo as a shirt. Like it makes me feel official.
It's so official. And I can't wait to see someone.
I'm still waiting to run into someone in the wild, like someone I don't know, wearing one of our old shirts. Well, that just happened to me.
Shut up. Walking into your apartment and has our shirt on yeah yeah i was dressed appropriately he was we appreciate it we don't let anyone in our house unless they're wearing mine or vince's podcast shirt that's smart as a couple that's a good decision we're real dicks yeah is it obnoxious to wear your own podcast sweatshirt t-shirt yes hoodie no no it's like when It's like when you're working on a movie and you get the show, the movie logo hat.
That's right. And once it wraps, you can wear it.
Should we also get director's chairs? Do you think? Definitely. Should we get baseball jacket? Baseball jackets, directors.
You can get, I was looking to try to get mugs and stuff. You can get like, we can get like serving trays with the logo on it.
You can get so much weird shit. You know, Dave Anthony from the dollop says that the thing they sell the most are posters.
Yeah. We have to do that.
Yeah. Posters.
And we can do shot glasses too, which I feel like, I mean, there's got to be a lot of college kids listening, right? I would hope. What are they doing with their time? I mean, studying? Please.
Look at us. We didn't go to college.
I mean, we didn't graduate. And look at us now.
I mean, I tried, but it sucked. I gave it a shot.
It was weird and uncomfortable. Oh, I hated it.
I really didn't like it. It was triggering for me because I hated high school so much that it just felt like high school.
Mine felt like the opposite of high school because I went to a tiny high school and then I tried to go to Sac State which was like going to oh my gosh huge a whole other city as a school and I just felt lost and empty and alone yeah community college felt like um oh god it felt like I was going backwards in time because my school was kind of nice.

And then suddenly it was like this terrible old school that was just sad.

Did it have those desks where the chair and the desk are connected?

There's something so depressing about those desks.

Because you can't move in or out and your butt hurts and it's just no.

And it's like a little clamp on you. Yeah.
It's a school clamp. It's a little prison cell.
So look at us now. Yeah.
Look at us free, sticking our legs wherever we want, sideways. Anywhere.
In our director's chairs. Quit school, everybody.
That's the one message we have for the children this week. Please quit school.
Did you know Burke Ram ramsey is gonna be on dr phil in september

i no and i've been waiting to freak out with me for you yeah because i've been seeing that i'm like whatever whatever even even vince was like did you see that and i'm like yeah whatever but i've been waiting to talk to you about it i love that the day it was announced i think i must have had six or seven people tweet at me and that and our the my favorite murder twitter we had like 25 people instagram too like people we have an instagram account and people will be like commenting on a shirt post like did you see this so here's what i think is going to happen one of two things either it's going to be the most boring basic thing he thinks an intruder did it or he's totally going to just go ballistic and say it was his mom. I'm guessing it's not the latter, but how cool would that be? It'd be amazing.
I did see one picture in one of the articles that got sent. And they're walking in an orchard.
The walk and talk? Which is probably a bad sign. Yeah.
Because that means they're two besties. No, they always do the walk and talk, though.
Oh, yeah? The walk and talk, whenever there's like an interview, that's just a thing. Okay.
A walk and talk. Okay.
But you think an orchard is a bad sign. I mean, it just looked too peaceful and chummy to me.
You're not going to be like, and then she hit her over the head in an orchard. You're not going to say that in an orchard.
Yeah. I don't, who knows? But here's what I will say and I'm not going to name any names i've got an inside source um i'm going to find out from my inside source if it's already been taped if it's a taping live in a studio like if if the clips we've already seen are just a pre-tape that they're right letting out footage of or whatever because what if we went to the live taping of that no stop it oh my.
Oh my God. I didn't think that's what you meant.
Wait, what? Would you want to do that? I'm going to find out from my inside source. I didn't even know that's what you meant.
I thought you were going to like find out what he was saying, but that's, I would know. Don't you want to be there? Because here's the thing I do trust in Dr.
Phil. Um, is I just got the picture in my head.
Did you ever see the Dr. Phil that was on the Sesame Street where they did a Dr.
Phil and the Muppet looked exactly like him? No, I love it. That just flashed in my head and I kind of went away for a second.
Sorry. I do trust that Dr.
Phil doesn't give a fuck. So he will like confront like a lunatic yeah like it's not like i'm going back on what i just said about the chummy right this because now that i think about it dr phil just all be like why why do you still live with your boyfriend who's a pedophile or what you know what i mean he doesn't care burke ramsey lives with a boyfriend who's no no no.
So yeah he definitely asks the hard questions and kind of fucking needles them until they like they get nervous and then the real shit comes out. So I think he's better than like a Barbara Walters because she's super soft for sure on people.
I agree I can't wait I'm totally gonna watch it but i'm like everything in life keeping my expectations low if we somehow get tickets to be in the studio audience i will lose should we wear matching outfits should we and should they be our t-shirts yes yes a thousand times yes please should we dress like super weird not twin sisters yeah and freak people out get our hair cut yes everything should i get a tiny bob that was my 90s hair forever i want to say we should dress like pageant girls but that seems in bad taste to say right now it does seem like that so i'm not saying it it's fucking huge the huge tiara trophy they would kick us out we would get arrested for bad taste we do like that's like a intense drag queen move is to like dress up as jambonetta totally Then here's part two, which a lot of people know because a lot of people also tweeted this information. Okay.
Is that Ingmar Gwadnick, who is the guy that was accused of murdering Chandra Levy, is going to get released from prison after six years because the prosecutors are dropping all charges because based on recent unforeseen developments that were investigated over the past week what i am i'm never speechless but i'm speechless about this that's insane because the whatever they found yeah whatever this investigation is the idea that it got to the point where it gets him out of jail entirely has to be something incredibly definitive. But didn't he also kill two? Isn't he suspected of or did kill? Yeah.
Rock and roll. Isn't he suspected of or killed two other people? Now, look, i'm not celebrating his release because he did attack women in that park that's the reason he was arrested but he attacked women with the intent i believe to rape them if he did if not raping them but there i think so basically he was the perfect person to arrest for her murder it's just that moral dilemma of like is setting him free just going to fuck up the world even more i mean he's i know you can't hold someone for something they weren't charged for but i hate it and i want to know what the i want to know what the evidence is so i can know if i agree or not, but they're not telling us.
You're right. It's not exciting.
He's getting out of jail because obviously he can't handle himself around women parks or screwdrivers, sexual predator. Yeah.
He's no good. And I'm sure jail helped him with that.
But what I, I'm just stoked that they found some, they were still looking and and they found something so definitive that means we're going to find out about it within the next month it can't just be a witness because it's been what 10 years and witness eyewitness testimony sucks it can't be witnesses don't get people out of jail i don't think it can't just also it can't just be dna because finding a hair on the body doesn't, you know, unless it can be linked. What did they find? What did they find? What did they find? What? Wasn't she skeletal remains when they found her? I can't remember.
People talk to me about these cases that we talk about on here and I have almost no memory of talking about them. I have to re-listen to episodes.
I've gone like, I should do

this murder and then like, did I already do this?

I've thought of that so many times.

There was one that I wanted to ask you if I've done

because I totally forgot.

And they mean the world to us listeners.

What a wonderful.

The most important things.

We love it.

I forget my own name.

I almost did one of yours.

I was looking up today and I was like, I can't find it. Which one? It was maybe your first.
No, not your first because your first was Martha Moxley, right? No, my first was Jean Benet. Oh, okay.
It was an early one that was a little more obscure. And I saw it and I went, that's so good.
And I'm like, the reason you the reason you think that is because george what if you just did it and then did it better and then said up your game girl yeah that's right together it's a contest within a um i started listening like i want to say just for research purposes and just for like quality control but started i listened at episode one from the beginning but it's really just because I'm fucking full of myself and wanted to hear how funny we are and I was laughing out I was here this is like describes me in a nutshell I was shopping for vintage clothing listening to my own podcast and laughing out loud do you think you were laughing really loud and didn't know it because you had earbuds in i was no because i'm really aware that but i was i was laughing out loud accidentally like i couldn't help but what is oh god i'm such a dick but it's no i think it's very brave of you to admit this i i re-listened to episodes a lot because it's a really it's fun to do it's i don't know it's fun to do it is it is and it's like oh shit i think you and I text each other on a regular basis oh that's good that was actually good sometimes we leave this apartment I'm like we shouldn't we shouldn't do this yeah wait what wait sorry what um any more housekeeping that is it for me it's funny that we're talking about JonBenét Ramsey again. Did you watch the recent documentary on Netflix? It's timeless.
I haven't because there's so many other true crime documentaries out right now. I feel like my list has gotten insanely long.
Yeah. This is the cold case who killed JonBenét Ramsey, of course, by Joe Berlinger, who's this incredible documentary filmmaker.
The thing that didn't give me any new insights, except for I really don't think the family was involved. I really do at this point, and I feel bad that I ever did.
I think it was an intruder. I feel bad about all of it.
Like, this is a story that is so, I was talking to somebody this morning where I was just like, the idea that there are so many risky people in this child's life. Yeah.
And the fact that there are so many potential people is so horrible. Yeah.
Just so horrible. And they, you know, like child pageants, we don't even have to get into it.

Yeah.

God.

But you're going to feel bad for especially Patsy Ramsey when you watch this. It's like, it's fucked up.
It's just so fucked up. And I do think that the Boulder police have a lot to fucking answer to based on this documentary.
Yeah. And also, it's just very strange.
It's like a cold case. It feels like there should be a way to get in there and do something about how this cold case that just everybody wants answers to.
Well, there is. And it's DNA.
And again, the Boulder Police Department has some shit to fucking answer for. Really? Yeah.
Now I have to move this one up to the top of my list, you're saying? It's only three episodes. Okay.
It's good, and it's fucked up. Burke isn't in it because he has not publicly spoken since this interview with Dr.
Phil, which you can totally understand why he wouldn't want to. But another one of John Ramsey's sons is in it.
Looking back on this rewind, it's a really good, like, I think people over the years of being a true crime fan and a listener of it, I really, the thing that stands out the most to me is media literacy and how it used to just be we kind of accepted whole cloth anything we were shown of like, well, then that's what it is. Well, then that's what it is.
Yes, it must be true if it's being printed or it's being said by news people. Yeah, it's on a major network.
Yeah. And as people get smarter, which I do believe they are, and it's like all the internet, you know, the things that advance our kind of awareness and literacy.
It's just like to believe that we know anything simply because one group of people put something together and tried to convince us for ratings. Yeah.
It is a thing that I'm glad is changing.

Yeah. You got to check your sources, even if the source is like, you know, a major fucking news outlet, because like, where did they get that information from? And especially these days, like who, you know, I don't know.
Trust no man. Trust no sources.
Right. Exactly.
And then we also talk about the Chandra Levy case and the fact that her, which you covered before in an earlier episode and that her alleged killer

has been released from jail based on new evidence. Oh, you covered it in episode 16 of MFM and Rewind.
So listen to that if you want to. Yeah.
And we also talked about listening to our own show. First of all, we called them old episodes and we're on episode 28.
So we're just like, hey, did you like that idea of listening to what we were doing to get a sense of like, what are we doing? Yeah. Yeah.
I feel fine about the fact that I listened to it. I haven't done it in a while.
There were times where like every couple of weeks I would listen to the beginning just to be like fact check, like make sure that are that are we doing the right thing, you know? Or I'd listen to my story if it was a story that was really like one of them that I was nervous about getting right. I'd listen and just like reassure myself that it sounded not stupid.
But more and more, I'm not able to listen to my own fucking voice anymore. Oh, no.
Like when I walk by and there's like an engineer trying to edit what we just did, I like run away when I can hear my voice. It's for others.
It's not for me. It's kind of like when we stopped looking at our own Facebook page, where it's just like, oh, this isn't, we're not supposed to be on this end of the process where we did the other part.
Yeah. Put the mirror away.
Yeah. Move on with your life.
Yeah. Do your best.
Please, please move on with your life. Okay, so now we're going to get into Georgia's story.
This is The Durham Family Murders. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one.
I just knew him as a kid. Long, silent voices from his past came forward.
And he was just staring at me. And they had secrets of their own to share.
Gilbert King. I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott.
I was no longer just telling the story.

I was part of it.

Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer.

He's just straight evil.

I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.

If the cops and everything would have done their job properly,

my dad would have been in jail.

I would have never existed.

I never expected to find myself in this place. Now, I need to tell you how I got here.
At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Bone Valley, Season 2.
Jeremy. Jeremy, I want to tell you something.
Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley, Season 2, starting April 9th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad-free with exclusive content starting April 9th, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.
On a day in 2001, a veteran homicide detective put on his gloves and stepped into a cluttered bedroom. He'd been working on a murder case for months, but he still had no clear evidence pointing to any of his suspects.
However, a tip from an informant had led him to this bedroom, and at first, nothing stood out to him. That is, until he saw a piece of notebook paper sitting on a nightstand.
On this paper was somebody's list of goals they wanted to accomplish in their life. Most of the goals on the list were pretty standard, except for one, which was totally psychotic.
Hey there, I'm Mr. Bollin, and what you just experienced is just a taste of what you can expect when you listen to the Mr.
Bollin podcast. In every episode, I peel back the layers of the strange, the dark, and the mysterious, from unexplained phenomena that challenge everything you thought you knew about reality to true crimes that keep you up at night.
I cover it all. Listen to the Mr.
Ballin podcast, Strange, Dark and Mysterious Stories for free on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad-free on the Amazon Music app.
Am I first? Are you first this week? Are you first? Are you first? I think, yeah, you did, what's your face last week? And I think you went first. I also don't care who goes first.
Honestly, at this moment, I have absolutely no idea what happened last week. Okay.
You did little baby Karen, didn't you? Mary Bell? Yeah. Was that last week? I don't know.
I honestly don't know. No, last week was hometown murder.
Fuck! Oh my God, what is is wrong with us is there a gas leak in my apartment we can't be that stuck up if we can't remember exactly i don't think it's us being stuck up i think it's we have terrible memories yeah i think there's a gas leak in my apartment probably i definitely have a terrible memory anyway so do you want me to go first you want to go first um you go first okay i'm excited about this one because it's fucked up and i also really like finding ones that you don't know and i didn't know i found one that i didn't know purposely where'd you find it reddit um i might have found like a link on the facebook page as you do and then just went crazy okay because someone posted a link that has all these reddit links on it or that it there is a post with a bunch of

reddit links that i was looking through today and loved it it was so great well i did what i always do and i go into the hometown i go into our email and look up and like type to find if anyone has ever emailed us about it just so i can add that information in and no one has ever emailed us about this oh that's smart who knows where i found it uh okay this is the durham family murders Durham family.

Durham.

Okay.

All right.

I'm going to start with the murders.

So. Okay, this is the Durham family murders.
Durham family. Durham.
Okay. All right, I'm going to start with the murders.
So, on February 3rd, 1972, it was a stormy, snowy night in Boone, North Carolina. In the bodies of Bryce Durham, 51, his wife, Virginia, 44, and their son, Bobby Joe, who was 18, were found crowded side by side, leaning across and into a filled bathtub with their heads under the water submerged.
There's a fucking photo. No.
The autopsy established that though rope burns were evident on the necks of all three of the family members, the father and son were alive when their heads were forced underwater wow this really just kicked it off didn't it i don't know why i started with the fucked up part but here we go no no it's it's i mean look you got to hook them in because the rest of the story i find i find amazing and you'll see why yeah yeah so virginia had been strangled to death before being plunged headfirst into the tub but for some reason they still put her in there or whoever it was. The bodies of Bryce and Virginia also exhibited blunt force trauma.
Bryce had a skull fracture and Virginia's nose had been bloodied before her death and none of the corpses bore defensive wounds. So then I wrote, whodunit.

Okay, Angela Lansbury.

Just typing away in your typewriter.

Whodunit.

Who could it be?

So Bryce, the father, owned a local successful car dealership, and Bobby Jo was a college student nearby.

The Durhams, all three of them, came home together from the car dealership, and it was a crazy stormy night. It was super snowy.
It was like getting worse and worse. And a neighbor noted, saw that they came home around 9 p.m.
So cut to 10 p.m., I wrote. In case I forget.
Yep. Allegedly, the son.
Okay, so there's another kid. There's a daughter, Ginny Durham Hall.
She was 19 and she lived with her husband, Troy Hall, a little ways away in a trailer. So allegedly the son-in-law, Troy arrived home at the trailer where he met Ginny and he claimed he spent the entire day at the library from like 5 PM until he got home.
He says he came home to watch the Winter Olympics and they turned the TV on at 10 o'clock. And then the TV was on the fritz.
So they put on music instead, they say. Then around 10.15, he answers a call at their home.
he says that the call was from virginia his mother-in-law, and that she was whispering that three men were assaulting the family. And then the line abruptly went dead.
He claimed he tried to call back the home, but it was busy. So he asked his wife, would your mom mom play a trick on us and they kind of thought it was a prank which is a real fucking funny prank so worried they decided to check in on the family didn't call the cops their car wouldn't start even though he had only been in it like 15 to 20 minutes before and they asked the neighbor cecil smart to drive them cecil small is what i meant cecil small small who's now deceased was a private investigator and he drove the couple out to the house side note cecil was also supposedly at the scene of the kennedy assassination what according to him he was passing by the end of the motorcade and he saw a Hispanic man in the crowd with a poorly concealed scoped rifle.
He was driven off course by the motorcade and came to an unfamiliar area. So he pulled over in front of the school book depository to ask for directions.
And a passerby was heading in the very same direction that he intended to travel and thus offered the calm, neatly dressed stranger arrived. And this man, Cecil avowed to his dying day, was Lee Harvey Oswald.
Cecil's a liar. So you're telling me, Cecil, small, that you not only saw the shooter of President Kennedy, a different person, but then you also met Lee Harvey Oswald.
But you can also prove that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't do it. Didn't do it.
Yeah. And now that I'm thinking about it.
And you're blaming a Hispanic man. Okay, I just put this together and I wasn't going to add this in because i think it's in poor taste but troy says that virginia says that three black men black men yes were attacking her and i mean i'm sorry but there's a certain from like 1969 but beef and before that's all anyone ever said yeah i think from the 80s yeah you're right it's no you blame it on people do that all the time yeah so that i'm kind of putting those things together now so they get to the home almost an hour after the panicked call but they couldn't get up the hill to the home because of the snow so they left jenny in the car and they said stay here we're gonna run up there and supposedly they thought three men were in the house maybe not anymore attacking and they left her in the car and they said, stay here.
We're going to run up there. And supposedly they thought three men were in the house, maybe not anymore, attacking and they left her in the car at the bottom of the hill.
That makes no sense. No.
Right? No. Also, I don't like three men.
That's rare that that's the actual situation. Right.
Right. But how would three people, two of him were like able-bodied men able to be overpowered without any defensive loans?

It couldn't have been one person.

Unless, you know, some people just comply when there's a gun on their face.

Yes, a lot of people do.

Yeah.

I mean, it's the smart thing to do.

Right.

All right.

So they get up the hill.

They get to the house.

They enter the home through a broken garage door where they found the place ransacked and the water was still running in the tub that was full of the family.

They skedaddled, I said, which I spelled right, which is weird, and jumped into the car intending to drive off, still not having called the police.

The car was stuck, so they made it to a neighbor's and they finally called the police.

So police suggested the ransacked house seemed like a staged robbery, i'm wondering like you hear that all the time are they i want to know if they're ever wrong about that about it really was ransacked insincerity i feel like there can't be that much that huge of a difference between a ransacked because it's being burglarized i think when people burglar this is just me talking off the top of my head. I want to know your opinion.
Okay. First of all, I want to officially change my old opinion too.
I don't know why I said 1969 and below when racism is such a humongous problem in this country. It came.
I don't know. Um, but I'll go ahead to again, freely give my opinion.
Um, when people burglarize a house, they're looking for valuables and they know where people hide valuables. Good burglars want to get in and get out.
They don't want to wreck people's houses. They don't go through every single drawer because they know that people hide.
I mean, there have been studies about it where it's like people hide their stuff in a sock drawer. People hide their stuff in a freezer.
People hide their safes behind pictures. So now everyone knows where you hide your stuff.
That's right. They come to your house.
My safe is behind my picture. So cutting open a couch or, you know, there's like when things are overly ruined, I think, is when cops are like.
Like furniture thrown. Yes.
That doesn need it because there there's photos of the house that's ransacked and it's like there's a there's an ottoman like thrown onto the couch yeah that there's no there's no reason i've done that right and also you're just taking extra time as the burglar that could be time where the cops could be on their way why would you stand around throwing Well, here's the fucked up thing about this that proves they're probably right is that there was an envelope full of cash sitting like out on one of the dining room chairs. And in the photo of the crime scene, you can see it.
They had brought it home because they couldn't make it to the bank after. So it was just sitting there? So it was just sitting there.
It wasn't taken. So there's no need to put the ottoman on the couch.
No so it was just sitting there so it's just sitting there it wasn't taken so there's no need to put the ottoman on the couch no there it it was a fake i believe it was a fake ransacking but i'm just wondering you hear that all the time oh yeah i wish we could look at photos of i wish like how the 911 call we wanted to do were like we listened to two that are real and one that isn't that's one i'd be willing to do yeah that's one that wouldn one that wouldn't give you nightmares. That, that one I would love to do because who, I mean, who really knows, but it would be to understand how detectives and investigators have a sense of things would be fascinating to me.
Can any detectives out there, please send us some crime scene photos. Don't, and us.
Just sneak them out of the evidence locker

where the cocaine is.

Sneak them out.

Mail them to George's secret

PO box.

I mean, add a little Coke in there

if you want.

It's not a big deal.

I won't be mad.

People do it all the time.

I'm kidding.

Don't do Coke.

We all think it's bad.

Yeah.

So, okay.

I'm speaking for Stephen.

Stephen wants the Coke. Stephen hates Coke.
So so they say it seemed like a staged robbery there was an envelope full of cash and nothing about nothing much of value had been taken and shortly after the car that the durham's had at the house which was from the car dealership was found in an embankment and it seemed like it had been placed there rather than crashed and in the back was like a pillowcase full of like some silver you know some fucking silver nothing that like utensils yeah yeah yeah so something a rube robber might take right a fool so i mean clearly my clearly the son-in-law okay here's the fucking twist okay 40 years later it's still unsolved despite all that evidence that clearly points at the son-in-law but what do they have like motive that the son-in-law the son-in-law has never been a suspect oh and he's a lawyer now so all right oh here's what i think happened i think and jenny was the sole inheritor inherited quarter of a million dollars oh shit in the 70s money and that's 25 million in today's is it oh wow karen oh my god if it's numbers i'm definitely lying i love those conversions when they're like this is how much it is in today's money i know i just read one today that was like a hundred thousand in the 70s oh shit now i don't remember what it was i believed you i believed you in the way that when i have to ask you about roman numerals that you could say anything to me and i would believe you that i knew that was that was that I knew. Okay.
I'll always tell you what I'm lying. I appreciate that.
Okay. So I just think like he hired a hit, some hit man.
If a phone call happened, it was the, the people at the scene saying it's done and Ginny didn't know about it. And so he said that phone call was actually this thing instead.
Right. Or the phone call never happened and she was in on it.
Do you think the neighbor was in on it? That it was Mr. Lucky at the assassination? It sounds, I don't know enough about him, but based on those two little details, it's the racist, the blaming someone else, which I don't know, it's the CIA that killed Kennedy, right? I mean, and yeah, his getting involved in it and being a private detective, which I feel like you know more about how to commit a crime.
Well, sure. And otherwise, you see it all the time.
Yeah. I'll say this.
What's suspicious to me that just dawned on me, why would that woman call her son-in-law instead of the cops when there are three men in her house?

That's a good point.

And in addition to that, the family didn't like the son-in-law.

They were trying to get her to leave him.

Because she was only 19, you said. Yeah.

So they were like, against this marriage, why would she call them?

And there's so many instances in this whole crime that it's like, why weren't the cops called?

Wow.

Yeah.

Starting with the mother, which probably never happened, so that's why the cops were never called.

Yeah.

And then multiple times with the son-in-law and the daughter, weren't called.

Right.

So, yeah.

Crazy.

And then, da-da-da-da-'s still there's there's still looking into it there's a 40 000 reward offered um and some someone said investigator said in my opinion mrs germ never made that phone call when somebody when some people come into your house to kill you they're not going to let you make a phone call. Right.
Of course. I speculate maybe the call happened, but from a hitman that they hired.
And okay, I also want to give a shout out to Jodi.com. No, wait.
It's called I Did It For Jodi. J-O-D-I-E.com.
That is a really cool true crime blog that had a lot of good information is that name in reference to mark david chapman possibly tried to kill reagan for jodie foster maybe wait no i'm sorry jodie aries i've never seen you what did i you just i could i could have i think i got the name wrong was it um hinckley i'm thinking of john hinckley i never tried to kill reagan mark david chapman is the one that killed john lennon yep uh and then you just threw jody areas in there for fun facts you guys we're strong on facts so we're passionate about a lot of different names i did it for Jodi Arias in there for fun. Facts, you guys.
We're strong on facts. We're passionate about a lot of different names.
I did it for Jodi.com. Good little true crime blog.
That's very cool. I had a lot of cool information.
And I fucking went all over the place for this. I was so fascinated by it.
I just can't believe. Yeah.
They did it. They're just nothing.
But they didn't even, he was never even a suspect that's weird it was a small town small town only unsolved murder wow yeah is he still like you said he became a lawyer he's a lawyer he's still they're divorced she won't now she now won't cooperate the cops anymore she's like i gave them all the information i could huh yeah what do you think was that anticlimactic do i ask that every time yeah i think you do i really do well it's always when there's when there's no uh resolution i mean it's always just it makes me want to ask 95 questions which are the ones i love i love when there's like i love a good mystery you know what i was thinking about is that other one that you had that was from Japan or whatever. Yes.
Where they killed the family. Totally.
I think about that one all the time. Who the fuck was it? What and why? It's enough information that it should have been able to be solved.
That drives me crazy. Well, the frustrating thing too is that it's not like when you're on this side of it and you don't know, you have it in your head that it's going to be some fascinating reveal.
it's always like oh that guy that's right yeah i mean that's why that's why i like cold cases because you can imagine that it's it's more it's deeper than than just the stupidity of some they're killing someone yeah that's right okay we're back i had a lot of questions back then do you have any answers now i do i have actual updates and this case i would call it solved oh but there's still a mystery so it's kind of like you know kind of comforting so 50 years after the murders in 2022 officials identified the perpetrators of this crime because the case was reopened in 2019 after a man came forward saying that his father once admitted to killing three people in the North Carolina mountains during a thunderstorm. And so the father's name was Billy Sunday Burt, and he was the only suspect still alive.
And he gave up the names of his accomplices, which were Bobby Jean Gaddis, Charles David Reed, and someone named Billy Wayne Davis, which is actually the name of a comedian, friend of ours. So that's kind of fucking crazy, right? That's truly wild.
I mean, he's not involved. He's truly not involved, Really not his style.
Not at all. Actually is a part of our origin story.
Totally. He was there when we first met and first started talking about.
Yeah, he's married to Aaron Dewey Lennox. And so all of these people were members of the so-called Dixie Mafia, which we've talked about before.
Yeah. And so the Dixie Mafia, according to NBC News, is a Georgia-based, loosely organized network believed to have engaged in dozens of violent crimes across the Southeast in the 1960s and the 1970s.
So it's the Mafia, it's the South. The thing is, Davis confirms that the killing was a contract killing.
But the problem is, we don't know who the person who ordered it was and why. So that's kind of a big deal.
That's very important. Yeah.
And we speculate so much in the story that I'm kind of uncomfortable with it. We do it in a way that we did in the beginning where we didn't think about who we were throwing accusations at.
Right. Like the daughter, the son-in-law.
Like we'd never said alleged until much later. Of course not.
Yeah. It's true.
We were just sitting there like laying on a couch in your apartment thinking like we were just postulating. Hypothesizing.
Totally. Exactly.
Yes. Just like what if, what if? And that kind of sensitivity, it just took us, that's a perspective I just wasn't considering at all.
And I feel the same way about the JonBenét Ramsey case where it's just like, how fun is it just to be like, what if it's this? What if it's that? What if it's that? But we're doing it in public. And what if more than likely it's not? Right.
And you're just causing more pain and wounds. Right.
Right. And it goes hand in hand with like we're not the kind

of people that would assume a bunch of people would want to listen to us do what we're doing right and that was like that's just our you know that's our learning curve yeah that makes this show a little painful and a little like we don't want to look back and be like oh that means people. Yeah.
Because there is a real naivete, if not straight up ignorance. Right.
And as we say, we were always like working from the place where it was, which was, you know, people claiming on newspapers that fucking Burke Ramsey did it. You know, it's like that was the culture.
We were the National Enquirer generation where that little murdered girl's face was on that newspaper in the grocery store. When you were 15 years old, you were staring at her every single day.
Yeah, you're desensitized to it. Completely.
Yeah. And so the son-in-law, Troy, passed away in 2019.
It remains unclear if he had any involvement whatsoever. And yeah, that's it.
So I don't know if we'll ever know who ordered that hit. Wow.
I know. I wonder if there's like Dixie Mafia, there's a file cabinet somewhere.
Oh, you got to hope. That's just like some weird reveal where, yeah, at some point.
Hey, was your grandpa in the Dixie Mafia? Will you tell us about it at My Favorite Murder at Gmail? That has to be a hometown, right? Yeah, for real. Any kind of Dixie Mafia, anything that you might know.
For a second, I thought you were asking me if my grandpa was, where I'm like, my grandpa was from Galway, Ireland. Yeah, right.
Almost as likely as my grandpa being. All right, so let's listen to Karen's story.
This one, this is an epic, classic MFM. It has classic merch, what we're going to tell you about too.
Classic merch that I wear around the office every day. I mean, it's still like one of the, I think it's like up there with Mary Vincent's story of like, you know, core memories of stories.
In my heart, for sure. Yeah, yeah.
All right, so this is Karen's story about the survival of the I think it's like up there with Mary Vincent story of like you know core memories of

stories in my heart for sure yeah yeah all right so this is Karen's story about the survival of Terry Jo Duperalt all right well you want to hear mine absolutely well mine is pretty interesting.

I remembered that I read this book

called

The mine absolutely well mine is pretty interesting i i remembered that i read this book called um let me see the bible god i love it and i'm here to tell you about it too it's called um alone orphaned on the sea which is what i wanted to call my book but forget it um oh sorry orphaned on the ocean i can call mine orphaned on the sea now so um i got really into for a little while before i ever saw the show i survived which i cannot get on the lifetime on my apple tv i can't get it on my my laptop. Oh my gosh.
It will not let me access, even for money, it won't let me watch old episodes of I Survived. And I think that's wrong and someone needs to do something about it.
We need, listen, is it Lifetime? Well, it's like lifetime.com. They only have them on their website, I think.
You're missing out on a great opportunity for a shout out. And instead, Karen's just disappointed.
I'm just mad. But I love all your movies.
Anyhow, so I read that I was super in, got into these stories of survival for a little while in the, I would say mid nineties. Maybe I was having a hard time myself.
I can't remember. And I remember reading this book and being fascinated by it.
And the thing that drew me to the book initially is on the cover of the book, there's a picture and it's just the open ocean and then a tiny, in the middle, a tiny white raft and a little girl sitting in it. No, is it a photograph? It's a photograph of the person

I'm about to tell you about

and how she was found.

Losing my mind.

Losing my mind.

Can I look at the phone?

Should I wait?

I'm going to wait.

I have the picture on my phone for you.

Everyone go look at the Durham family murder

bathtub scene.

And then it's not gruesome,

except they're all dead.

Oh my God, this little girl.

Alone.

Orphan on the ocean.

All right. So this is the story of terry joe depero uh and she was from green bay wisconsin uh when this happened to her she was 11 years old and um her father arthur was an optometrist from uh also from green bay obviously she wasn't from a different area um and arthur had always dreamed of taking a year off and sailing around like the bahamas um basically sailing the world with his family he had been in world war ii and he had been in like the tropics and so he thought that would be, especially it was coming up on winter in, um, green Bay and yeah.
Right. And so he, um, he'd always wanted to basically live on a boat for like a year.
And so his idea was, he's going to take the family down to the Bahamas. Um, they're going to rent a sailboat and try it out for a week, see if the kids actually like it or if he's just full of beans and, uh, and then see, see where their adventure will take them.
Okay. So they, they fly down to, um, Florida and they charter, uh, a two massive sailboat called the blue bell and they hire captain Julian Harvey, who is a former Air Force fighter pilot and an experienced sailor, and they have him captain the ship.
Doesn't that seem weird to be like, my whole family and some guy? Yeah. Well, the guy brought his wife, Mary.
Okay. So I think they were kind of acting as like the casual crew it was a swinger situation it was super key party okay so because this was also in uh oh this was 1961 okay um so they sailed out of florida um on november 8th 1961 and they sailed east toward the island of Bimini.
Bimini, Bimini, boo. Sorry.
And then they went on to Sandy Point on the great Abaco Island. And the family spent a week there snorkeling and collecting shells on pink and white beaches.
They just had a gorgeous vacation. And they had such a good time that Dr.
Dupereaux told the village commissioner because they had to fill out paperwork to go back to America that he planned to return before Christmas. So they were super into the sailboating family dream.
So then they left and they set sail for home. And that night around 9 PM, Terry Joe headed downstairs to her sleeping quarters in the back of the boat.
Her brother and little sister had stayed upstairs in the cockpit with the parents. And around 11, she woke up cause she heard her brother yelling daddy help.
And then she heard stomping sounds and then it went quiet and she laid in her bunk shaking and confused and not sure what was going on she's 11 she's 11 years old my gosh okay so finally she sneaks up to the main cabin and she sees her mother and brother lying in a big pool of blood. Holy shit.
So she said the second she saw them,

she knew they were dead. So she went past them and snuck up to the cockpit hatch and she stuck her head out and she saw more blood on the deck and she saw a knife on the ground.
Oh my God. So she crawls out of the hatch because she's trying to find her dad and captain Harvey runs at her and growls, get back down there and pushes her down the stairs.
Holy shit. So she closes her eyes, runs past her brother and mom and goes back to her bunk and gets into her, get, goes back to her cabin and gets back in the bunk and she lays there.
She doesn't know what to do. She's obviously probably in shock, freaking out.
Then she hears sloshing and she looks down and the floor of her sleeping quarters is covered in oily water. And she realizes the ship is sinking.
Oh my God. So she's afraid to move, but she looks up and then suddenly the captain's standing in the doorway staring at her and he's carrying her brother's rifle.
And he stares at her for a little bit, then he just turns and walks away. So she lays in bed, frozen stiff, doesn't know what to do, but pretty soon the water's up to her mattress., my God.
So she knew she had to get out of there. So she wades through waist-deep water out of her cabin, out of her quarters, out through the main cabin.
She goes back up on deck, and she looks over the side, and she sees that the life raft is already in the water. And Captain Harvey walks up to her and hands her the rope that connects,

connecting the life raft and says, hold on to this.

I'll be back in a second.

And she's in such shock and fear.

She drops the rope.

And so as he's walking away, he looks and sees that the rope is going in the dinghy starting to float away.

So he dives in after it and he dives in after it and uh he dives in after it and she watched him swim after the boat and disappear into the night oh my god oh my god i have so many questions go on i stole that last line directly from the reader's digest article that i was reading about this story i read several articles about it but reader's was the main one. And I just want to thank them for being an American classic.
I miss that. I used to read that when I was a kid.
That's all I read. When you went to the bathroom at your aunt's house? I didn't want to say it.
It's all about Reader's Digest. Oh, man.
Cover to cover. So, okay.
So, it's an 11-year-old girl standing on a sinking boat who's witnessed her family murdered, part of her family murdered.

What does she do? Does she cry? Does she cower? No. She remembers that there is a small cork life raft in the cockpit.
So she runs and grabs it. And as she does, as she grabs a hold of it, and they don't describe this that much, but she basically runs forward to the front of the boat, grabs the life raft.
And by the time she gets there, the boat is sinking under her feet. So she has just enough time to jump onto it as the boat goes under the water.
So she basically went down with this ship and then jumped onto this little cork life raft. Holy shit.
So now she's alone at sea in a tiny raft. It's three feet long.
I mean, you saw it in that picture. She doesn't fit into it.
She couldn't lay down in it. It's half her.
It's probably like like can hold her legs so she has a blouse and pants on she's freezing cold it's pitch black there's no moon out she can't see so she keeps getting hit with huge waves and the salt water's getting in her eyes and stinging her eyes she can't open her eyes and she's afraid that captain harvey is nearby oh my god so that's then it starts raining. So her first night out in the water, bad news.
Okay. Anytime you're out at sea, I wouldn't be looking for good news.
Although I wonder if that not salt water that it was raining down was helpful in some way, like she could drink it or something. Oh, maybe.
You mean hydration-wise? Yeah. For a second, I thought you meant, I wonder

if she was in a fresh water.

Was she in a fish tank?

Was she?

Did she go to Lake Havasu?

Okay. So she wakes

up the next morning. The sun

comes out. She's not cold anymore.
Now, of course,

she's boiling hot.

Oh, I've seen

Joe vs. Volcano.
I know what it's like. Okay, yeah.
you know what it's like to be on a raft but his raft was nice it's pretty sweet it's huge and had that great suitcase yeah um her raft was slowly disintegrating no yes sweet baby angel so she has to hang her legs over the side to float like the the plastic rubbery part that has the air in it is the part that's disintegrating. So she has to sit on the edge and then hang her legs over the side.
Then parrotfish come and start biting her legs. What are parrotfish? They sound like dicks.
I don't know. It sounds like they start biting her legs.
I bet they're the ones that you see in tropical fish tanks. Yeah.
They think they're all big with their fancy colors and their teeth fucking shark food so uh that's her first day it sucks the next day the next day she wakes up her tongue is swelling in her mouth because of all the salt that she's taking in and no hydration and then then she sees a plane and she's waving. She takes her shirt off and waves and waves and waves this, this white shirt over her head.
It dips down toward her a little bit and then flies away and never comes back. Wait, wait, no.
Yeah. That was how she was going to get saved.
Nope. So that afternoon she spots some shapes swimming in the water about 30 yards away.

And she's scared to death because she thinks they're sharks.

Send her foe.

When they come closer, it's a pod of porpoises that swim with her for hours and hours.

Never.

No.

Now we all cry at the beauty of nature.

Are you?

This is 100% for sure.

Yes.

This is from her. This is her book, Alone, Orphan of the Ocean.
What did they? Because. I know, but like how did it happen? Oh my God.
Have you ever seen those specials where they have children that have like brain damage or some kind of disease get into water with a dolphin? They do studies and their brain function improves when they're around dolphins dolphins have like weird fucking children esp and they know when something's in the water it needs their help and they're beautiful creatures and you have to stop killing them okay so i thought you were serious i thought you were really crying for a second what if i was accusing you personally yeah georgia please with all your tuna all right okay so that night the sea is totally still now that i'm gonna admit to a half lie in this because i remember this from the book but i read this book book almost 20 years ago. Okay.
So who knows what bullshit I've layered on top of this, but I'm pretty sure I remember this. Yeah.
That the sea, this one night was still so she could see the stars like down, down to the horizon. Wow.
And there was bioluminescent algae in the water. So it was all like, she basically said she wasn't that scared until the very end because these cool things kept happening.
And that was one of them that she saw like that the whole ocean was glowing green. And then she could see every single star.
This reminds me of James and the Giant Peach. Yeah.
Remember when they were in the ocean and the peach? I fucking love that book. I read that one.
That was my favorite book in the whole world except for the the copy i had because it was from like 1979 because it was when i was a child there was an illustration of james at the beginning that is the saddest picture of any child ever i tweeted it one time oh my god it's so sad when his parents got killed by a fucking rhino that escaped from the zoo yeah hardcore. Maybe that's why I always thought my parents were going to die.
Because that was my favorite book. Yes, because Roddahl liked to plant those pretty early and often.
He did. Just be prepared to be an orphan just in case.
Which I appreciate to a degree. He should have said be prepared to be an orphan of the sea.
Yeah. Because that could also happen.
Okay. Tie it in.
Go ahead. So I had to

bring it back. That night when she fell asleep, she dreamed she saw her father peacefully drinking

a glass of red wine and telling her, come on, we're leaving. So when she woke up on the third

day, she was really sore. Her skin was burnt through her clothes.
All her joints ached.

She had been balancing on the edge of that raft because almost all the bottom was now gone yeah um and she started hallucinating she would see tiny islands with one palm tree on them and then start paddling paddling paddling and then when she'd get to them they would disappear oh my god um on the fourth far side comic i know on the fourth day she didn't wake up in the morning she was losing consciousness Sounds like a Farside comic. I know.

On the fourth day, she didn't wake up in the morning. She was losing consciousness.
She was close to death. And when she finally did wake up, she woke up because she felt a shadow over her.
And when she opened her eyes, she said she saw a huge whale hanging in the air above her. But what it actually was was a greek freighter that miraculously had someone had spotted her on this greek freighter and that's the person one of the people one of the sailors on this ship took that picture that i showed you holy shit the second they saw her so that was her still lost at sea basically oh and she, and she didn't even know yet.
So the experience for her was a whale was hanging over her.

And then she was being lifted in the air.

And then she was in big, strong arms.

And then she was asleep.

And the next thing she knew, she woke up and she was at the hospital in Florida.

Big, strong arms.

Big, strong arms.

And a whale.

And Greek arms. So they'd have that real good hair.
Yeah. Real good wrist.
Shiny. Maybe a pipe.
Probably. It smells like a pipe.
He smells like a pipe. He'd smell like a pipe.
He'd definitely have a big beard. Oh, yeah.
Okay. Okay, this is just our fantasy.
This is a different podcast. All right.
So she got helicoptered to the hospital in miami she was treated for dehydration and severe sunburn in a week she recovered with no serious injuries holy shit but not so for doc for captain julian julian harvey oh hell no i was gonna call him doctor um so captain harvey was rescued the next day oh by a, um, on an oil tanker that was headed for Puerto Rico. And when they found him, he had the dead body of Terry Joe's seven-year-old sister Renee in the life raft.
What? Why? Uh, he told the Coast Guard that he had found her in the water and tried to revive her. And, um, so basically, but she, the, the autopsy showed that she, she drowned.
So he, the story he told the Coast Guard was that the Bluebell was damaged in a squall in the middle of the night. And his wife and the Duperos were injured when the masks and rigging collapsed.
He said gas lines in the engine room ruptured, and the ship caught fire as it slowly sank. He said he'd managed to launch the dinghy and raft and dive overboard, but the tangled rigging had trapped everyone else on board.
The police were totally suspicious, but there was nothing to prove otherwise. And then three days later, Terry Jo shows up, survived.
And when Harvey finds out That she survived He killed himself in his hotel room Holy shit So turns out they do some investigating And Harvey had serious financial problems And he had just taken out a life insurance policy On his wife Mary There's fucking life insurance policies There needs to to be more steps before you can just take out a life insurance policy on your wife. Or husband.
Or children. The police theorized that he had killed his wife for the insurance money but was caught in the act by Arthur Debrow prompting him prompting Harvey to murder him and the rest of his family.

It was later found that Mary had been Harvey's sixth wife. What? And not the first to die while married to him.
Come on. He had miraculously survived a car accident that had claimed another wife of his and her mother.
both his yacht Torbatross

which is a terrible fucking name

and his powerboat Valiant

had claimed another wife of his and her mother, both his yacht Torbatross, which is a terrible fucking name, and his powerboat Valiant had both sunk under suspicious circumstances. They had all yielded large insurance settlements.
Jesus. Turns out Captain Harvey was kind of a serial killer.
Oh my God. Terry Jo was raised in Wisconsin by her aunt.
She never talked about the ordeal. Her family told everyone not to bring it up in front of her.
So she lived with this for years and years and years. Does that seem mentally healthy to you? It is not mentally healthy.
It's the worst thing you could do. Talk about your trauma.
You have to talk about it. Talk about it to someone who is trained professionally.
Someone cool and who's trained. You have to talk about things like, I mean, come on.
I think these days people know that, but this was the 60s. It was Wisconsin.
Press it way down deep. I mean, that's what a lot of families do.
My family is very much like, don't bring it up. We don want to bother anybody right um so she finally went to therapy as an adult and 50 years later she wrote a book with a survival psychologist named richard logan called alone orphaned on the ocean oh my god and she actually took sodium amytol which i believe is oh truth serum, so that she could remember everything.
So she went all the way back. So fucking cool.
Yeah. Holy shit.
That's our girl, Terry Jo Depereau. I want to read that.
And she has an I Survived. Of course she does.
Really? Yeah. I want to see that.
But I didn't pick this one because I saw it on I Survived. I Survived, for me, doesn't tell you enough.

They take all the good ones.

They do.

That is so...

I have never heard that before.

That's a good one, right?

11 years old.

Is this a game? I think you won.

It can't be a game. Please.

Also, if it's a game,

when you have a big Captain Harvey is a serial killer reveal. I mean, yeah, but also a girl surviving in a boat.
That's pretty fucking sweet. It's pretty goddamn cinematic.
Can I add that none of the hands of the family in the bathtub were tied behind their back? Where were they tied? They weren't tied. It was when I, or like, so maybe they weren't conscious from being strangled.
Yes. They would have to be because there was no defense.
There's no defense. There's no fighting, but their hands are free.
Yeah. But yeah.
Yes. That doesn't make sense.
No. Okay.
I'm not trying to one up you. I'm just remembered that part.
Please, please. But also you said the wife was strangled, but the other two had rope burns around their neck like they were hung no i think they were all strangled okay by oh there's like a like a some kind of rope that would like that they got at the house so so it's not like they brought these weapons with them whoever killed, right.
And this might be a good time to say, considering the fact that that guy's a lawyer, that everything that we accuse him of is alleged. Alleged? Hearsay? And not proven.
Speculation? Gossip? Yeah. Podcasting? Fuck, you're right.
Shit. Guys, please don't tell on us.
And that was the end of the podcast that they did ended not y'all ladies think you're smart you think you're funny and smart guess what is that how he sounds he's from north carolina right sure that yeah i don't know where that accent no i buy it well that's some fucked up shit yeah well uh go to our instagram Instagram.com slash my favorite murder go to twitter my fave murder at twitter um facebook page fucking hang out with us hang out oh but the one thing i will say is now we're getting lots of recommendations if it's on let's stop pretending Netflix has a bunch of choices. Netflix has like, let's say

20 we're getting lots of recommendations. If it's on net, let's stop pretending Netflix has a bunch of choices.
Netflix has like, let's say 20 British shows. We've seen them all.
If it's on Netflix or HBO, the challenge to you is to find a British procedural. I haven't seen good luck.
And the person who suggested DCI banks, I laugh in your face. Just kidding.
I don't even think that's what they suggested but i mean i've seen i've honestly seen them all someone said i've seen them all including midsummer midsummer mysteries which really is like total grandma tv yeah i've tried to watch that one too oh my god but it's very grandma you love that shit man i do i'm sorry that that was just i had to tag that on. No, I get it.
I appreciate it. It's sweet.
The intentions are sweet. Of course.
But also, enough. Well, just give me something new.
Yeah. That's all.
For sure. Yeah.
Well, you guys, thanks for listening. You guys.

Oh.

I haven't even asked you yet.

Yeah.

Have I?

You're jumping your line.

Do you want a cookie?

There he goes.

Okay, we're back. I still think you won this week.

I mean.

I mean.

Well, I think this story is so, it's extraordinary. And there's nothing better, I think, than a survival story, unless it's a survival story of a little girl.
Yeah. Who by all accounts should not have survived that.
No. It's a fucking miracle.
It's a miracle. And like, in the beginning, it's not just like, oh, she was on a cruise ship and the cruise ship went down.
Yeah. What she experienced before she then became stranded at sea was so horrifying and like traumatic from a movie.
It just wild. Yeah.
What an incredible, incredible survival story. Do you have any updates? I do have a few.
Terry Jo has a different last name. Her three children and her grandchildren live near her.
She spent 14 years as a water management specialist in the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources. Wow.
And she says, quote, I went on to protect the water that had protected me as a little girl. Water is life, and it is soothing for me to be on the beach.
I find I can think clearly, relax, and feel closer to my lost family. That's so beautiful and pure because she could have been deathly afraid for the rest of her life of water and the ocean.
And that would make perfect sense. But to embrace it as the thing that saved her, not the thing that tormented her, you know, for all those days she was out there is like such an interesting, like, I think we should all take a little something from that.
She seems like the kind of person that having gone through a thing that a lot of us would be like, I don't know if I could actually get through that, especially at that age.

She didn't just get through it, but especially in that book.

If you haven't read her book, you absolutely should. But it's like the philosophical part of her is just like, well, here's what we're all going to learn from this.
Yeah. And here's what it means to me.
I get to make up what it means to me. Yeah.
You know, not the circumstances. Right.
Yeah. Let's all do that.
It's very cool. So when this came out, my dear friend Kat Solin, who's an incredible artist, came up with a rad design.
It's a little girl on a raft. It's like a little cartoon drawing, but it's like, it invokes so many emotions, the drawing.
It's such beautiful art. It really is.
It's truly my favorite. Yeah.
Kat's so good at that. So we're going to sell it for one week only.
We're going to bring it back. You can preorder a limited edition zip hoodie or mug, and you can get that at exactlyrightstore.com.
So run over there and get that. It's taken from the real picture that was taken from the deck of the freighter of her rescuers.
So, like, it's beautiful art, but then it's also, like, the art is based on a true story. It's just, like, the coolest, coolest.
And we're going to close this preorder at midnight on January 21st. So don't wait.
Go get it. If you like that art, you can finally get it again for the first time in years.
Yay. So this episode, as we were talking about, originally titled, I 28 His Liver with Some Fava Beans in a Nice Chianti.
So if we were going to rename it today, what are some ideas of what we should pick? Okay, if we were to name it now based on something we said during the episode, how about my safe is behind my picture? When you were talking about burglars know where to hide stuff in the home and you just fucking told everyone, basically. My safe is behind my picture.
It's a good... I could see that on our iTunes, you know? That's right.
Although I don't have a safe. And then I also said, now we all cry after telling you about how the dolphins swam with her.
The dolphins swam with her, stayed with and they probably chased those fucking parrot fish away yeah that's right dicks and those asshole sharks oh my god i think now we all cry now we all cry yeah yeah that's a good one all right thanks for looking back at the past with us and we like doing it yeah that was uh another one another rewind we did it we'll do it again why not stay sexy and don't get murdered I doing it. Yeah, that was another one, another rewind.
We did it.

We'll do it again.

Why not?

Stay sexy.

And don't get murdered.

Goodbye.

Elvis, do you want a cookie?