Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 25: Twenty Knives

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Speaker 1 Hello

Speaker 1 and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. And if you celebrate, Merry freaking Christmas.
Oh, hi, Merry Christmas. What'd you get?

Speaker 2 This is our new Wednesday episode where we recap our old episodes. We give you case updates.
We talk about what we'd wish we talked about the first time around, the whole shebang.

Speaker 1 And today we're recapping episode 25, which came out on Thursday, July 14th, 2016, which we named 20 Knives.

Speaker 2 It's just a nice rhyme.

Speaker 1 Instead of 25, sure. 20 knives? 20 knives.
That doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2 It's just a rhyme, like it's Amosh and Mitsy Russell.

Speaker 1 25 knives. Okay.

Speaker 1 I mean, okay, look.

Speaker 1 Listen.

Speaker 2 Okay, let's listen to how we started that episode.

Speaker 1 Here we go.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 did it start?

Speaker 1 Hi, Karen. Georgia, hi, how are you? Pretty good.
How are and yourself? Thank you. Good.

Speaker 1 Now we've never met before. Is that correct? One person, this whole podcast has been over the phone, right? Yep.

Speaker 1 But now you and I are legally married, so you can enter the country. I'm so excited to not have to be Canadian anymore.
It's such a disgusting place. Kidding.

Speaker 1 But we have to like, we have to fake our marriage, our green card marriage to the authorities, too. That's right.
So you're going to have to know a lot about me.

Speaker 1 Who's my third grade teacher? You like, what did you say? Who's my third grade teacher? Oh, Mrs. Bacon? Yes.

Speaker 1 Sorry. Go on.

Speaker 1 No, let's do more green card testing. I like it.
That's a really funny thing.

Speaker 1 It's like, if you, you're not a true friend unless you memorize someone else's green card information so that you could pass a green card test. Would you green card marry someone?

Speaker 1 It depends on the situation. Yeah.

Speaker 1 If you're like, you're cool.

Speaker 1 I feel like that's, I did that already.

Speaker 1 And you didn't even get anything out of it.

Speaker 1 You got some nice China. I really think that that China has gone untouched and can be negotiated for, comes in the hatch, full set of gorgeous, totally untouched, yet probably slightly cursed

Speaker 1 wedding China.

Speaker 1 I think this time around, I'm going to go for actually someone that I like and likes, who likes me back. Yeah.
I think it'll be better. I don't even think love needs to factor into it.

Speaker 1 I think I could go for just high school crush style enjoyment of another person. Yeah.
Just, I feel like the, like, this is the mantra, stoked to be around.

Speaker 1 Like, you don't have to love them. You should be stoked to be around them.
I mean, what's the difference? That's a good point. Valid.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 it's that all works out in the end, right? You just kind of end up with somebody. Yeah.
That's how, yeah. And try to remain stoked.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And try to, try to be your best stokeable person for them.

Speaker 1 Make sure you increase your stoke ability. Yeah.
So you're not like resisting it. Don't even increase it.
Just like make sure your stoke ability is like on an even plane at all times.

Speaker 1 Like, not at all times. Cause you can today.
I fucking lost my shit and cried and was like, probably not the stokiest person in the world. Yeah.
I don't, who would want that all the time?

Speaker 1 To be around? Yeah. Plus, I look so cute when I cry.
You really looked great when you answered the door, all matte. My eyes get bright green.
Yeah. So do mine.
Yeah. I look like

Speaker 1 that one alien lady from Star Trek when I cry. Oh.
Where it's like legitimate, it legitimately scares people because my eyes turn red in one instant. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it's, I kind of look like Firestarter a little bit.

Speaker 1 Also, you light fires because you just get so angry. Can I tell you who I'm stoked on right now? Please.
This is going to go into, I'm not sure if this is Celebrity Center or

Speaker 1 our new segment called Recommendations.

Speaker 1 Wait, did we call that? Did we call that anything before?

Speaker 1 When we talked about TV shows we like. No, let's just call it check this shit.
Check this shit. Ben Air Boom.

Speaker 1 The new HVO series, The Night of,

Speaker 1 is so good. So good.
And I am so intensely in love with Riz Ahmed, who's the lead guy. How is he so cute? It's because his eyes are unnaturally large.

Speaker 1 And he uses them against you. Yes.
Like

Speaker 1 he is a trickster. Like

Speaker 1 he looks so innocent in this and sweet and like what was he in before this? Sad. He was in Nightcrawler.
He was

Speaker 1 assistant in Nightcrawler. And he's been in,

Speaker 1 he's been in a bunch of stuff. He was like in that Centurion movie with Michael Fastbender.
Like shit, you're just like, oh, yeah, that guy was in that. That one guy.
Yes.

Speaker 1 He often plays a Middle Eastern person. So it's that because he's Pakistani.
Right. And so, like, he was in the reluctant fundamentalist, I believe it was called, with Ray Donovan.

Speaker 1 You know, it's, and he's British. That's the most amazing thing.
Is he British? Stop it. So it's, it's one episode and that was like, and it was like a pre-showing of it.
Yeah, so the sneak preview.

Speaker 1 We don't even get the second episode. And what's it tonight? Someone told me it was tonight.
Someone told me that they're showing the actual first episode tonight.

Speaker 1 So re-showing the one we've already seen. Yeah, which is stupid.
So maybe not. I'll watch it.
Fuck, it's so good. It's about a play.
It's like a play.

Speaker 1 It's about a dude who basically finds, let's say, he finds a body. Let's just say.

Speaker 1 And why explain it? And go watch it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because once you get into it, see, like when I saw the previews, I thought I knew what what it was. Right.

Speaker 1 And then once I watched it, I was like, oh, this reminds me of the way the wire felt. It's a whodunit.
Yeah. And John.
It's like a whodunit with John Toturo.

Speaker 1 What more do you fucking need in your life? But also, all those actors, like that guy that played the one cop with the mustache at the station, is from Angels in America.

Speaker 1 Like there's all these Broadway and like very high-level, but not like super commercially known actors in there. So it all feels really real.
It does feel. I like that.

Speaker 1 So the main cop really, really, it's the procedural shit is interesting because the way they talk him into getting a DNA sample from him and then casually say, we also need to swab your dick, bro.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It was like,

Speaker 1 it seemed so realistic. It's horrifying.
It's just horrifying. Yeah.
And they're like, why do you need a lawyer? Casualty of it all.

Speaker 1 Let's not give too much away. All right.
Get into it.

Speaker 1 You'll thank us. Get into it.
Come back to us. Let us know what you think.
Also, keep your eye peeled for Rizamed, who will be one of the stars of the next Star Wars movie.

Speaker 1 He's just an up-and-comer.

Speaker 1 He's a fresh young face

Speaker 1 that will be mine. Says Karen Kilgarif.
Then that's Karen Kilgariff's take.

Speaker 1 That's like

Speaker 1 the movie review on Entertainment Tonight. And that's Karen Kilgariff's take.

Speaker 1 That part's over. Wait, didn't you have a recommendation? I think that was it.

Speaker 1 Wait, we had the same one? No, yes, but we were also talking about Bloodline and how you said it.

Speaker 1 What were you saying about Florida? I can't, well, I couldn't watch it for. I tried to like binge watch it, but I started getting high on Florida where I was feeling dizzy.

Speaker 1 It was all those like beautiful, slightly out-of-focus shots of the beach and like when all the Christmas lights go, it looks like the beginning of the focus features title card.

Speaker 1 That's what that whole TV show is like. It's also like,

Speaker 1 it's like, it's like 102 plus all the humidity. Yes.

Speaker 1 You know, and then what's her name, the sister? Linda Cartellini. Thank you.
Like, I knew you'd know that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm a fan. Like, her outfits for a lawyer are fucking.
Are you fucking kidding me? Like, you mean like her very skimpy sundress and all?

Speaker 1 She wears these skimpy as fuck shorts and these like platform

Speaker 1 like payless. And I'm not talking shit on payloads because I fucking wear the shit out of payless shoes, but you can't go into a court of law dressed like that.
You'd be held in contempt.

Speaker 1 Girl, that's Florida. Yeah, it's a lot.

Speaker 1 And her hair is always so perfect. I know I'm lady shaming right now.
Well, it's a TV show. And Kevin is just the most realistic character in the whole show.

Speaker 1 Is that the fuck-up brother? That's the fuck-up brother. Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. Yeah, we had one of those in my family.
Fuck up brothers? Like, no matter what happened when they were coming back into town, it was like, oh, everybody get ready.

Speaker 1 That's why I'm scared to have kids. Like, what if you have the fuck up kid? Yeah.
Oh, speaking of which,

Speaker 1 it's not one in four every four people's in sociopaths. Let's do this as corrections corner.
Corrections corner.

Speaker 1 Because I was about to say you had a one in four chance. I was about to repeat my same incorrect information.
That's what I'm going to

Speaker 1 correct me. And someone, I believe off of memory, was named Clint Page on the Facebook page who said, I don't want to be a correcty person, but it is not one in four.

Speaker 1 And then all these other people were like, It is, I think they were saying it's 25%.

Speaker 1 Right. It's like, one, it's like,

Speaker 1 hey, oh. So next week, look for next week's correction corner where we correct what we're saying right now.

Speaker 1 So there's some, they're also, um, so there, so one, there's one in four people are not psychopaths. It's like one in,

Speaker 1 it's not a percent. I don't know.
It's not one in four. It is not one in four.
It's way too high. That's way too low.

Speaker 1 That's way too

Speaker 1 many. Also, we got a really beautiful email just letting us know.
So last week I did kitty Genovese as my

Speaker 1 favorite murderer. And also.
Did you say kidney Genovese? The kidney Genovese? No, because I was sad because I think she got stabbed in the kidney. So, Karen, that's really

Speaker 1 insensitive. I miss her.

Speaker 1 That she might have, it's probable that she was a lesbian. Yeah, they talk about that in the Crime to Remember episode, right?

Speaker 1 And it's not, you know, this real this girl, this girl wrote a really beautiful email to us about how it's like she's not trying to correct us, and it, you know, it's not, it's just a part of it that's like not fair that she didn't get it to be represented and as how she was.

Speaker 1 And the girl who had to pretend to be her roommate, you know, actually had a huge loss of her partner. Yeah.
And how sad that was.

Speaker 1 And, you know, now we're in a time when we can we can say that she was a lesbian and not it not be like somehow taint the tragedy of what happened.

Speaker 1 Well, in that episode of Crime to Remember, they talk about their

Speaker 1 gay relationship as being also why people weren't calling the cops. Because they said there were other gay people in that building that knew like you don't involve a cops no matter what.
Whoa.

Speaker 1 That was part of the element. But when you were talking about it, because it was from the brother's perspective,

Speaker 1 I wasn't going to be like, well, and also this, because it's like, if it wasn't in the movie or if he didn't talk about it, maybe they didn't. Well, here's the thing.

Speaker 1 I didn't finish it because my fucking computer wouldn't upload it. So that could be the whole second part of the goddamn shit.
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 Okay. That's, yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, if everybody gets, I mean, that's awesome that somebody wrote in. And if you had a chance, the A Crime to Remember episode about it is really good too.
We always close what?

Speaker 1 They were the ones that thought that that guy did not do it, that got caught. Right.
There was a neighbor. Yeah.

Speaker 1 We always close. correction corner, which we've never done before, with saying, if you're getting your facts from here, like, look, look somewhere else, bro.
Right?

Speaker 1 We are, we like to discuss concepts more than facts. Yes.
And fantasies also. Yes.
More than facts. Like, there's a reason that this podcast is

Speaker 1 categorized as comedy. And

Speaker 1 a pretty good reason. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's not drama. It's super fucking hilarious.

Speaker 1 It's not fact-based. We do our best, but there's so much talking that it's very easy.
Oh, hey, guess what I did? What? Guess what? I did in a fit of fucking manic episode last night? What?

Speaker 1 I started an Instagram account. Oh, nice.
I saw you tweet that, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 My favorite murder Instagram account. And what are you putting on there? All our arts? I think

Speaker 1 all the arts and crafts and all the, like, I just love all the

Speaker 1 inspirational quotes of every episode that are made by Shaz Amanda. She does an incredible job.
of just like finding the stupidest quotes we put and like making them into like these like

Speaker 1 great posters.

Speaker 1 Inspirational looking posters, but it's things like I hope we don't get stabbed. Right.
To

Speaker 1 fucking lunatic.

Speaker 1 It's very good. So there's a lot of art that people are making that I'm posting.
And wait, are you talking about the memes? Are you talking about that girl that does like hand lettering? Both.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. I put them both up.
Got it. So I'm just going to post, I'm going to post things and stuff related to the podcast.
That's good. We can also do pictures.

Speaker 1 Like, remember that time that I did that there was that terrible man. Oh, he was one of the,

Speaker 1 he was in the story about the babysitter killer. Oh, okay.
And he had the craziest, scariest looking mugshot of all time. Go to Instagram to see his photo.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're back. This is where we started with a lot of beautiful things, our obsession with Riza Med, our fucking Instagram account.

Speaker 2 I mean, things that really made us, built us as people and podcasters. Truly.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Truly.

Speaker 2 If you have not seen the HBO series The Night of

Speaker 2 It is one of the most incredible false imprisonment stories incredible. And he's such a good actor, as we all know.

Speaker 1 He is. This says he's going to be Hamlet, an upcoming modern adaptation of Hamlet.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, he's going to be in it. Is he going to be Hamlet?

Speaker 1 This says he's going to be Hamlet.

Speaker 2 He's going to be Hamlet. Congratulations.

Speaker 1 What a role.

Speaker 2 Do you know that somebody, and I wish I had your name right now, I'm so sorry, but it is in my drawer in my bedside table.

Speaker 2 Somebody embroidered that little bag do you remember that they gave it to me at a live show and it said it's embroidered riz ahmed's face and my face and then it's the quote i have that it's like some insane quote i said where it's like it's something you can take a photo of it and send it and we'll post it on our instagram account which is at my favorite murder which is still going strong yeah that's right you know what i'm going to take it out of that drawer i'm going to bring it up i'm going to put it on the shelf behind yes 100 make her do it so can you help me do that and give her credit it says something like i love him, like, you know, with the power of a thousand subs.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that sounds right.

Speaker 2 Something real crazy that when someone embroiders it, you start to realize how insane you sound and you try to stop saying stuff like that.

Speaker 1 But you don't. And eight and a half years later, here you are.

Speaker 2 Try as you might. So this episode is, it starts heavy and then it gets really bad.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You'd think we would have learned at some point, not just in the most recent past, to do a hard one and a soft one.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 nope. This is the way we do it.
And apparently this is the way the listeners like it. So this is Georgia.
She went first on this episode. It's the case of murderer Christopher Darner.

Speaker 1 This is a rough one.

Speaker 2 This podcast is sponsored by PayPal.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's talk holiday shopping.

Speaker 2 From now through December 8th, you can get 20% cash back when you pay in four with PayPal. No fees, no interest.

Speaker 1 This limited time offer is perfect for the Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals you've been eyeing. Save the offer in the app now.

Speaker 2 So whether you're buying tickets to an improv show or a whodunit board game, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday.

Speaker 1 Expires December 8th. See PayPal.com slash promo terms subject to approval.

Speaker 2 Learn more at paypal.com slash payin4, PayPal Inc., NMLS 910-457.

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Speaker 2 I know I've mentioned already how much I love my entryway table, but I swear to God, because the path that it's on, like you have to walk out of the front of my house to walk to the bathroom.

Speaker 2 So I pass it four times a day and I love it more every time. It's like perfectly made, stylish, all these things that I needed and wanted.
And it was under $100.

Speaker 1 I've seen it and I will vouch for it. It was freaking adorable.
And it fits so well with your house. Yes.

Speaker 1 So if you're in the market for a beautiful new sofa, dining table, or bed, head over to article.com. Goodbye.
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Speaker 1 I think you're first this week.

Speaker 1 Right as you got perfectly comfortable. I'm so comfortable just now.
I waited till you adjusted that pillow. All right.
So I didn't know that I have, I have a hometown murder, but it took place

Speaker 1 15 years after I moved away from my hometown. So is it technically my hometown? Yeah.
If that's where you're from.

Speaker 1 So, we got this really great email from this dude who was like, I've heard you mention you're from Irvine and that you worked in the Woodbridge Village Center at this place where I could have been killed.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 and we're like, I just want you to know we're redoing it. And if you come and like visit it, I'll take you to the parking, the parking garage where Christopher Dorner's killing spree started.
Whoa.

Speaker 1 And I was, and he's like, which I'm sure you know about. And I was like, wait, what?

Speaker 1 Do you know about this? I know about Christopher Dorner. So I do too.
But, and this happened in 2013, which is like not that long ago, which seems like, it seems like so much longer ago.

Speaker 1 And I didn't realize it started in Irvine. I didn't either.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So in February 2013,

Speaker 1 Christopher Dorner, who was 33, started his killing spree that lasted, I think, two days, a couple of days, few days, like a week.

Speaker 1 What is life?

Speaker 1 So, he grew up in Southern California. He was a former United States Navy Reserve Officer.
He was deployed to Baharan.

Speaker 1 He was discharged from the Navy in 2013. I think it's Bahrain.
Bahrain.

Speaker 1 I just, that's a guess, though. I could also be wrong.
As I was saying it, I was like, I'm not going to be like a Fox News correspondent who says everything wrong. And so I like said it wrong.

Speaker 1 Sorry. No, don't sorry.
Me, sorry. Okay.

Speaker 1 So after his tour in Iraq, it's Iraq, right?

Speaker 1 Or is it Iraq?

Speaker 1 I pulled that A out way longer. Iraq.
Iraq. Iraq.

Speaker 1 He goes to Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 He goes back to the police department in 27 in 2007. He's paired with a training officer named Teresa Evans to complete his probationary training.
In 2008,

Speaker 1 he files a report against her. Oh.
Um,

Speaker 1 that she used excessive force in her treatment of a suspect who was a schizophrenic with severe dementia. And he says that Evans

Speaker 1 twice kicked this suspect in the face while he was handcuffed and lying on the ground. Oh no.

Speaker 1 So after he files this report, Dorner gets fired from the LAPD in 2008 for making false statements. Uh-oh.
They were like, you're fucking lying, basically.

Speaker 1 And his attorney at the hearing is Randall Kwan, Q-U-A-N.

Speaker 1 And he's like defending Dorner, saying that he was treated unfairly and he's being made a scapegoat, basically, you know, saying the police department didn't want to admit that she used excessive force, so they fired him instead.

Speaker 1 Wow. Because you're not, basically, you're not allowed to rat out your fellow officer.
That's what it seems like Dorner

Speaker 1 assumed.

Speaker 1 So he tries to get his job back with the LAPD's Board of Rights, rejected his appeal.

Speaker 1 He took his case to court with Randall Kwan as his attorney, and a judge ruled against it in October 2011. So Dorner's like basically snaps at this point.

Speaker 1 So the murders start, weirdly enough,

Speaker 1 with the murder of this Randall Kwan's daughter and her fiancé

Speaker 1 in Irvine in a parking structure, which I was just looking up, and I'm pretty sure it's where my dad's apartment was. No, yeah, which is across the street.
Like they lived in the same place.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 So I think it happened across the street from where I grew up. Wow.
Where my dad lived. Because

Speaker 1 I don't even know.

Speaker 1 So February 3rd, 2013,

Speaker 1 he just fucking goes up to them. They're in their car in a parking garage and shoots them.

Speaker 1 And like, remember that coming out in the news and it, and finding out who the father was and being like, oh shit, this is like, you could tell it was a revenge killing immediately.

Speaker 1 And it's just such a fucking huge bummer that this girl and her 27-year-old fiancé

Speaker 1 named Keith Lawrence just got shot to death because this guy went crazy. So immediately you have no sympathy for this dude.

Speaker 1 So this is his public defender that he basically, or maybe not public defender, but this is his lawyer for that case. Yeah.
Who they lost the case and he didn't get his job back.

Speaker 1 And so he went and killed that

Speaker 1 lawyer's daughter and fiancé. And he had this crazy manifesto basic, basically saying,

Speaker 1 basically saying that he didn't fight hard enough. He says, your lack of ethics and conspiring to wrong a just individual are over.

Speaker 1 Suppressing the truth will leave to deadly consequences for you and your family. There will be an element of surprise where you work, live, eat, and sleep.

Speaker 1 Look your wives/slash/husbands and surviving children directly in the face and tell them the truth as to why your children are dead

Speaker 1 because you killed them. Just, I mean, and the don't kill the judge, not the fucking lawyer's family.
I'm sorry, right?

Speaker 1 Someone's gonna, we don't have to pick. Okay, you're right.
You know what? Don't kill anyone. A.

Speaker 1 B.

Speaker 1 All right, Right. Thank you, Lee.

Speaker 1 I'm going to get hate.

Speaker 1 Send messages. Look.

Speaker 1 You were just going to solve the problem, which would be don't kill the family. Right.
Yes. Right.
So Monica Kwan and Keith Lawrence fucking shot to death.

Speaker 1 So he has this crazy manifesto. He wants to seek revenge.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 he just like writes this insane, I will bring

Speaker 1 unconventional and asymmetrical warfare to those in the LAPD uniform, whether on or off duty. Like this motherfucker is like, he's on one.

Speaker 1 He's targeting a large group of people rather than, you know, individuals, which is terrifying.

Speaker 1 He says he was terminated after we reported excess force

Speaker 1 and is and his attacks are retribution for his termination, as well as cultural racism and violence that continues within the department.

Speaker 1 So while search, so suddenly, this huge manhunt is on for Dorner. Police shoot two.
So, police suddenly just start shooting people because they're freaking the fuck out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, there's a truck that the cops thought was his truck. They shot the shit out of it.
Yeah, that's those were the two women delivering the newspaper. Yeah.
And they just started shooting a truck.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And if you, there's photos online of like how many fucking shots are in this truck.

Speaker 1 They also shot another pickup truck matching the description of like a dude who was like on his way to go surfing in fucking Orange Count or like and they shot it up.

Speaker 1 They shot the shit out of this track. Both everyone lived, but they also sued the shit out of, you know,

Speaker 1 yeah, they did. Yeah.
Yeah. But at the same time, like, I'm, I'm pissed about that, but I'm also like, how terrifying.
I mean,

Speaker 1 which is, which is better? Well, I mean, this is the kind of the crux of everything that's happening right now. Yeah.
It's like

Speaker 1 it is a high pressure job. It is a scary job.
And it's the kind of job where you have to be able to handle yourself with a gun. Right.
So if you think that

Speaker 1 basically you can't start shooting vehicles because you think your suspect is inside, that's not the way you're allowed to apprehend people. And the other thing, too, is like, as a police officer,

Speaker 1 there's an amount of danger involved with your

Speaker 1 job that you sign up for.

Speaker 1 So you approaching the vehicle and IDing the suspect and possibly getting killed by doing that is what's supposed to happen, not the possibility of civilians getting killed, right?

Speaker 1 Yes. And I mean, and that's why there's procedures so that when you approach that vehicle, you're calling in, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Like, it's like, did they yell, put your hands outside of the vehicle? And those two

Speaker 1 women, they didn't get close enough to see it was two women. They didn't get close enough to see that they didn't speak English.

Speaker 2 I don't know what the problem was.

Speaker 1 I don't know the details about it, but like, it doesn't make sense that you just. it was also a large Jorner was a large black man,

Speaker 1 and he they shot up two women and like a white guy who was a surfer. Yeah, so like clearly they weren't, yeah, they weren't doing enough

Speaker 1 research into this.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 they find his truck abandoned and burning near Big Bear. And I remember this at this point, I was like, fuck, thank God he's not in Los Angeles.
Like, I totally didn't leave the house. Yep.

Speaker 1 and then two of riverside's officers were shot in an ambush one died the other one was taken to the hospital and then they believe he they they believe he just drove up to the vehicle and at a stoplight and fired with a rifle at these two dudes uh 34 year old michael crane who was on the fucking riverside force for 11 years died they searched at least 400 homes in the area Terrifying.

Speaker 1 Do you think they found anything in certain people's houses? They were like, we'll be back for this. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Weird sex swing in the corner. The Smith Lab.
We'll be back for this. Oh, yeah.
Right now? Today's your lucky day. Yeah.

Speaker 1 We're watching. But we'll be back.
Tomorrow will be your unlucky one.

Speaker 1 So the manhand enters its second week. So it's two weeks.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 Karen and James Reynolds are cleaning out their big bear cabin that they owned and rented out not far from the command center.

Speaker 1 When they were confronted by Dorner, who had been living there for a couple of days. Oh, so he broke into their empty big bear cabin.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I also want to talk to Karen and James about why they're cleaning out their cabin at a time when there's a massive manhunt for like,

Speaker 1 oh, that's not going to affect us. We'll just go up there and grab that wood bear toilet paper dispenser.

Speaker 1 You know, my aunt Susie is coming up for the weekend, and you know how she gets about dust bunnies. Why are they, why are they southern? It's fun.

Speaker 1 That's how people know we've gone into a scene lit, which is our newest segment. Seen lits.

Speaker 2 Seen lits.

Speaker 1 So Karen and James, but they're kind of badasses because they were tied up in blindfold, blindfolded. He took the keys to their maroon Nissan Rouge.
Didn't know that was a car.

Speaker 1 I don't think it is anymore. It probably isn't because of this.

Speaker 1 Discontinued. But he, he kind of was like, he said to them, like, I don't want to kill you fuckers.
Like, he, he wasn't trying to kill civilians except for. the lawyers.
I think he thought like.

Speaker 1 No, he had his kill lists. He wasn't just going berserk.
Yeah. Okay.
He didn't want to kill kill this dude, these, this, this couple.

Speaker 1 He just tied, you know, he could have shot them and it would have been like taken whatever he wanted and lived there. He could have shot them and stayed there and he didn't.
Right.

Speaker 1 Not defending him, just saying. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So they used their teeth and a knife. They knocked off a nearby table to remove the pillowcases from their heads and zip ties from their wrists and called 911.

Speaker 1 Fuck

Speaker 1 Karen.

Speaker 1 And who? What's her husband's name? Richard? Georgia.

Speaker 1 That's us.

Speaker 1 We're the heroes. Karen and James Reynolds.

Speaker 1 So these, I mean, who escaped zip ties on the rag? It's Ryan Reynolds' parents.

Speaker 1 That's why they're so awesome. Right.

Speaker 1 So let's see here.

Speaker 1 Okay. They spotted him driving.
Sorry, this was in, what season is it? Is there snow up there? Is it summertime? This is December, right? What did I say? Sorry. October.

Speaker 1 Karen, I mean, you're really excited. I'm trying to paint a mental picture in my mind.

Speaker 1 Your quizzes every week. You quiz me.

Speaker 1 Now, what season? Yeah,

Speaker 1 what was he wearing underneath his coat? So this started in February.

Speaker 1 So there was probably snow. Middish February.
Yes, it's probably cold. Okay.

Speaker 1 Why? Because I love Big Bear. It's fun.
Have you ever gone like inner tubing up there? No, but I need to. The best.

Speaker 1 You mean like when you like hang out in an inner tube and drink drink beer and wander around the or like when you be on a river. Okay.
Is what you're thinking of.

Speaker 1 That's summertime. But in the wintertime in Big Bear, they have mountains just off the side of the road and you can rent inner tubes.
Yes.

Speaker 1 And then you go up a little like cloth escalator up the side of the snowy mountain, get up on the top. There's like a teen there with a whistle or whatever.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then you just go down and it is the most fun. If you're following my Instagram account, you will see a photo of me at five years old, inner tube and big bear.
Yes, going down the snowy hill. Nice.

Speaker 1 My dad lived in Lake Arrowhead for a hot minute. Do you have a photo? Let's post our fucking tubing photos.

Speaker 1 Let's give the people what they want.

Speaker 1 Instagram, inner tubing, murder and tubing. I might just put up a picture, just a picture of an inner tube and just a celebration of inner tubes.
Because they really summer, winter, fall.

Speaker 1 What a great vehicle for fun. Cheese, inner tube.
Cubes, too. Cubes.
Tubing.

Speaker 1 Sorry. No, don't never be.

Speaker 1 Oh, wait. Where was I?

Speaker 1 Karen and Richard have just escaped from the clutches of. Oh, my God.
Then they find a purple car. Because how many purple Nissans are there on the roads? Probably not a lot.
Purple Nissan Rouge.

Speaker 1 I feel like that was his, besides killing people, his biggest mistake. Yeah, don't get into a purple car.
Don't get into a purple car. What are you, fucking guy, Fieri? Get out of that car.

Speaker 1 Don't. This is not the time to flosh.
Yeah, this is not the time to be quirky in your car. Escapism means the beige or white car.

Speaker 1 That's exactly right. Right? How about a nice gold corolla? No one will ever look at you.
Gold? That's yeah, you not like bright gold, but you know, like a kind of muted. A muted gold.
A bronze.

Speaker 1 Muted tones. A bronze.

Speaker 1 But you know what? A light blue. The car I drive, so boring.
Yes, that's right. Light blue.
I hate it. It's.

Speaker 1 I want a car that, like, I walk into a parking garage, such as the one that these poor people got killed in. Yeah.
And I want to be like, that's my orange car over there. You do want that? Yes.

Speaker 1 You do want an orange car. Yes.
Okay. I really want an orange car.

Speaker 1 What, can you give me an example of an orange car? There's a lot of Honda Fitz that are orange. Oh, yes.
Right. It's, would you say it's a little more copper than like, say, a clown?

Speaker 1 It's a burnt orange. Great.
And I love it. That's what I'm looking for is not clown orange.
Good. Okay.
Can I go on?

Speaker 1 Also,

Speaker 1 how do you feel about dark blue?

Speaker 1 Electric blue, I'm cool with. Okay, cool, cool.
Dark blue. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

Speaker 1 Elvis, you cool? Oh, cool. Okay.

Speaker 1 Let's see.

Speaker 1 They spot his car. He's tailing two school buses for cover.
So a purple car is tailing two school buses.

Speaker 1 You mean like to hide behind them? Yeah, like to just be like, I'm inconspicuous. Oh, yeah, no.
Don't do that.

Speaker 1 Gunbatten ensues.

Speaker 1 He crashes and he runs and quickly hijacks,

Speaker 1 carjacks a pickup truck. Again, saying to the dude, I don't want to kill you.
Get the fuck out of the car. Like, not going to kill innocent civilian.
Or like uninnocent, but uninvolved civilians.

Speaker 1 Goes to a camp.

Speaker 1 Are you just worried that maybe you're not going to be able to do that? I'm not saying

Speaker 1 I'm just saying that those people are innocent. Oh, yeah, yeah.
People are like not involved. Yeah, but they're not involved.
So I don't say they're not innocent. They're innocent too.

Speaker 1 This dude Collins shows up at the Big Bear cabin where

Speaker 1 he's at.

Speaker 1 The first there. Want to know where he gets shot? Wait, wait, wait.
Who's Collins?

Speaker 1 Collins is this cop, this San Bernardino police officer deputy who gets to the cabin where Doran has run into after his he crashes his pickup truck. Okay, got it.
He makes his final stand here.

Speaker 1 We're coming to a close. Don't worry, people people who aren't into killing sprees, which I understand.
Um,

Speaker 1 gun drawn, he gets from the cabin. He's shot,

Speaker 1 but he does, he lives, so don't worry about it. Yeah, beneath his left nostril.
Oh,

Speaker 1 shattered his teeth and exits slightly below his jaw. This is the Collins, the

Speaker 1 guy or Collins, dude. Oh, who made a joke later that he looks better now than he did before?

Speaker 1 Like, he's a sweet baby angel. God bless him.
I mean, and he survived. I wouldn't hate getting my teeth shattered out and brand new ones.
I'll just say that.

Speaker 1 Karen, I'm just saying, there's always a positive. No.

Speaker 1 I'd like him kicked out.

Speaker 1 This kid. So you're going to come with me to my P.O.
box or what?

Speaker 1 That's how we'll do it. All of our dreams are going to come true.
Oh, my God. I'll keep you from getting killed by putting my teeth in front of whatever the weather.

Speaker 1 She threw her teeth in front of the bullet. She gave up those slant, upward, slanty Irish teeth as if they were nothing.
Your teeth are fine.

Speaker 1 Says the girl with an invisible eye.

Speaker 1 That sounds like a Madeline book.

Speaker 1 Yes. All right.
Shot again.

Speaker 1 The four fucking Collins shot again below his left knee. That's got to hurt.
And in his left arm. In his face and knee and arm.
Which guy, this guy, Dorner, was a

Speaker 1 sharpshooter from the Navy. So maybe he didn't.
I mean, you get shot in the fucking face. You're trying to kill someone.
You're trying to kill someone. That's a headshot.
That's a headshot.

Speaker 1 You can't really talk your way out of that. No.
Also, you made that list of people people you were going to kill. Yeah.
And this festive.

Speaker 1 Or like this guy who lives in San Bernardino, probably with his sweet kids and like wife, whatever, ex-wife. I don't know.
And now he's okay to the point where he can make jokes about it.

Speaker 1 That's what it seems. That's what the news says.
Great. What the news? That's all I need to know.
Sometime. Okay.
Yes. So, yes.
Good. So police toss smoke devices into the cabin.

Speaker 1 Cabin catches fire and burn for hours. And he was inside? Yeah.
The sheriff, they said they found charred human remains among the ashes. So, do we even know if it's his body?

Speaker 1 And also, people said that

Speaker 1 he had a gunshot in his head, but we don't know that. I don't know if that's.

Speaker 1 So, he killed himself and then the cabin burned down? No, I think he probably was dying from smoke. And then, I don't know.
And then shot himself. You know, I stopped investigating at this point.

Speaker 1 Karen, sorry, sorry. Well, I just remember the story.
Yeah. Yeah.
And it was like, they have him surrounded. They had him surrounded for a while.
Then it was like, we're going in.

Speaker 1 And it was like, he's dead. It's over.
I was watching this shit probably at a bar. Yes.
You know, like, this was a big news story here in LA. It really was.

Speaker 1 I think LA, we hate our car,

Speaker 1 what are they called? Car chases. Car draggers? No, we, oh, we, as people who've live in LA for a long time, are sick of the news being like.

Speaker 1 uh car chases they're fucking egregious and stupid and obnoxious i only saw one recently that ended amazingly where this, this woman is like making all these crazy turns.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, this person is making all these crazy turns. I just gave it away.

Speaker 1 And she like finally stops, gets out of her car, hands up. It's a woman.
Everyone in the public house that I'm in cheer because they're stoked that it's a chick.

Speaker 1 And she starts walking towards him with her hands up, then fucking makes a bolting beeline to the cop cart to steal the cop car and go away.

Speaker 1 And everyone in the bar like is fucking cheering for her and she gets caught. But it was like the sweetest move.
That's amazing. Yeah, it was great.
What drugs do you think she was on? All of them.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 At least, um, what's the one they always told you not to do? Because it killed me, angel dust, yep, yeah.

Speaker 1 That's the one where you lift the cop car over your head.

Speaker 1 Let's, how about our Paris, or uh, what's not, what's it called, our um Instagram, no, the one you make money off of uh on social media, the um PayPal, no,

Speaker 1 anyways, Patreon, Patreon, thank you, Stephen. How about Patreon? We do angel dust and just see what happens.
It's just a video of us doing angel dust. Like for kids, here's what happens.

Speaker 1 I'm putting this on the to-do list. We're going to get dusted.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 I'm finishing this.

Speaker 1 I'm so sorry. But here's the crazy thing is the police, Los Angeles police announced the department would reopen the investigation into his case that led to his termination after he was dead.
What?

Speaker 1 And Chief Beck said, I do not appease a murderer. I do it to reassure the public that their police department is transparent and fair in all things we do.

Speaker 1 Wow. I know.
That happened recently.

Speaker 1 This happened on Google.

Speaker 2 Why have I asked you one question?

Speaker 1 I feel very,

Speaker 1 should I be embarrassed? No,

Speaker 1 not at all.

Speaker 1 I just meant like, was it a,

Speaker 1 I know what you mean.

Speaker 1 Here's my thing. Every, it seems like every day we spend, every other police department in the world looks terrible.
Yeah. And slowly but surely, LAPD doesn't seem so bad.
They really don't.

Speaker 1 These days. These days they don't.

Speaker 1 If you watch the

Speaker 1 Simpsons 30 by 30, they don't look so good. They don't.
And that's why I feel like they're trying to be like, sorry about that one.

Speaker 1 But I mean, something like that, where it would be worst case scenario if it was like, what if he was right the whole time? Yeah. That's nightmarish.

Speaker 1 Well, some people get fired and don't go fucking know, but guess what? They don't get talked about on my favorite murder, do they?

Speaker 1 That's that's right uh well also the fact that there's a probably if at least a 50 to 50 chance he had ptsd from being absolutely from being in baharan where is it bahrain bahrain

Speaker 1 he probably had ptsd his neighbors said that

Speaker 1 He was a member of an admired, well-liked family who usually kept to themselves. That's always a bad sign.
Don't keep to yourselves, you guys.

Speaker 1 Put it out there on the porch. He was divorced in 2007, no kids.
So he probably lost his mind.

Speaker 1 And then you lose this job that you've been working towards since high school when you went into the Navy. Yeah, that's you're probably your identity.
Yeah. It's like, what?

Speaker 1 And he was probably correct in her using excessive force.

Speaker 1 And he was probably correct in the internal racism, which we all know is a very real fact that all police departments aren't allowed to acknowledge.

Speaker 1 Like, this guy would have gotten his day of celebrating if he just had not gone on a killing spree. Like, I feel like by now he would have been like, uh,

Speaker 1 but I, but you know,

Speaker 1 they, well, I wonder, that'd be really interesting to know if, like, if it goes back that, if it reverses itself.

Speaker 1 But the problem is, like, he was one of those people where he couldn't handle the shame.

Speaker 1 Like, he was basically publicly shamed and had his identity taken away. And then it's like, those, there are people who, if you, if you do that to them, they have to retaliate.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And they just sit with it. He, he reported this crime in 2008.

Speaker 1 It happened in 2007. He got a divorce in 2007.

Speaker 1 So it's just like he's in a world of pain. Yeah.
So I did. So I, of course, went to Reddit because I'm like, what do they have to say? It's always something good.

Speaker 1 So, Doc Gray 187000, as I read that, I'm like, he might be not

Speaker 1 187.

Speaker 1 He says his manifesto sounded so plausible. I don't want people killed

Speaker 1 or otherwise, but it is understood that sometimes humans have to kill humans, isn't it? Cops carry guns, soldiers carry guns. The only question is justification, right?

Speaker 1 So if the government and their guard dogs are thoroughly corrupt, as Donner asserted,

Speaker 1 and use unnecessarily deadly force, have callous disregard for human life, and are in a mutual protection agreement with prosecutors, what are good people supposed to do? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And he says, do you know how Dorner was caught? He carjacked a dude on a secluded road and told him, I don't want to hurt you, and then let him go. And that dude turned him in.

Speaker 1 He also commandeered that cabin, but let the residents live.

Speaker 1 Contrast with the innocent civilians the LAPD hurt and their quest to get Dorner and his gruesome death. Who am I supposed to root for?

Speaker 1 Well, that's a, it's not a binary thing. It's not, you don't root for anybody because here's the thing.
Those cops didn't want to kill anybody, but they were reacting. They are the ones being hunted.

Speaker 1 And maybe they weren't trained well enough to know what to do in a situation like that. It immediately just makes me go,

Speaker 1 the night that they investigated the John Benet murder, they sent the two newest cops over because it was Christmas. Yeah, it's that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 Before we hit hate, mail, I want to assure everyone that I don't hate cops. I think they're fucking,

Speaker 1 I think the majority are working their asses off to be good people and have, you know, the best interest of,

Speaker 1 and it's a hard job and you're putting your life on the line. You just only hear about the bad ones.
Well, but and you, but the problem is, I heard a DJ talking about this. I teach about it.

Speaker 1 A DJ, he was just saying there's never any,

Speaker 1 they just never cop to anything. And you can't do that when you're shooting people

Speaker 1 dead in cars.

Speaker 1 When you have people who are shooting people in the back or strangling them on video, you can't continually be like, they're innocent. They're innocent.
That's when you're building.

Speaker 1 If you're never being a stand-up, you know, and never, you know, these are obviously getting, if you're not getting punished by the higher ups and saying that they did this thing wrong, that means that there's no accounting for the behavior.

Speaker 1 And it's acceptable. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's a huge fucking problem. And if it's the same people, but getting targeted all the time.

Speaker 1 I mean, this snares you right into the Christopher Dorner story snares you into everything that's happening right now. I know.
In our culture. I know.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That'd be horrifying if it, if he was completely innocent and then just basically snapped.

Speaker 1 As opposed to the story that was built in the media is kind of like, oh, here's this crazy guy that like tried to lie about somebody else.

Speaker 1 And, you know, they had him, they had him like vilified from the beginning. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, I just touched probably a ton of nerves of listeners. So go to my P.O.
box and let me know what you think. I feel like people listen to this to get nerves touched.
I mean, that's the whole idea.

Speaker 1 By the way, I also took down my P.O. box number.
Yeah, if you can't live with it, why do it? I can't do it. Yeah.
I'd rather not have presence

Speaker 1 from listeners. I think it's fine.
So yeah, that's my favorite murder this.

Speaker 1 Irvine. Irvine.
Sharon.

Speaker 1 How was that? Was that okay? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay, we're back. Do you want to start with some case updates? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mentioned that the LAPD reopened the investigation into Dorner's termination, and it concluded that Dorner's firing had been factually and legally proper, and that his termination was not only appropriate, it was the only course the department could have taken based on the facts and evidence.

Speaker 1 End quote.

Speaker 1 And they also found no basis for the allegations of racism that Dorner cited in his manifesto. So there just is like a blanket,

Speaker 1 you know, no fault.

Speaker 2 We didn't do anything wrong.

Speaker 1 Right. We didn't do anything wrong.
Right.

Speaker 1 So take that. Take that with 2024 eyes.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 yeah, it's been going on for a long time.

Speaker 1 In August of 2024, these thieves robbed a man at gunpoint in Beverly Hills who they targeted for his expensive watch. And they were arrested.

Speaker 1 And it was discovered that they had a handgun that was once registered to Dorner in their possession. And

Speaker 1 as of right now, it's unclear how they got their hands on this gun. It's possible it was either stolen or sold by Dorner, but somewhere along the line, they acquired it.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Just an interesting little update. Okay.

Speaker 1 As you've heard in that story, you know, we talk a lot about the police department, and I want to remind people that it was 2016 when this was recorded, and we had a very different view.

Speaker 2 We still are two white ladies who have a very different experience with the police every single day than many people do.

Speaker 1 And there have been changes in recent years, but the LAPD continues to be one of the most corrupt forces in the U.S. According to policescorecard.org.

Speaker 1 Between 2013 and 2021, there have been 154 killings by police.

Speaker 1 Based on population, a black person was 4.4 times as likely, and a Latinx person was 2.3 times as likely to be killed by police as a white person in Los Angeles. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And there have been almost 15,000 civilian complaints of police mixed conduct as well.

Speaker 2 I think I recommended this already, but a reporter named Cerise Castle did an amazing 15-part series about, it's called The History of Deputy Gangs in the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, and that was for the website NOCLA.

Speaker 2 There's been a lot of reporting and deep dives into the corruption and the kind of like in-depth I don't know how to explain it. Gang mentality.

Speaker 2 Gang mentality in what is supposed to be a public service that has a budget of like $2 billion

Speaker 2 here.

Speaker 2 So it's definitely the kind of thing that we didn't have to think about or worry about at that time.

Speaker 2 And it is, I think, a lot of white people since 2016, especially after 2020 and Ferguson and all that stuff, you know, people's eyes have been really opened in a way that we got the almost like option to not have those eyes open for a long time.

Speaker 1 Totally.

Speaker 1 All right, let's go to another horrible story. This one is just one that comes up in your head all the time, you know? It's just, it sticks with you.

Speaker 1 This is Karen's telling of the story about the Cheshire murders.

Speaker 2 Just a warning, it's a horrific case and it involves sexual assault and violence against children. So listen with caution.

Speaker 2 This podcast is sponsored by PayPal.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's talk holiday shopping.

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Speaker 1 Goodbye. Goodbye.
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Speaker 1 Mine happened in the same year. Oh my God.
There's a lot of similarities, which is super weird. Interesting.

Speaker 1 And this is a murder story that I had two different, separate non-people that don't know each other, friends of mine, ask if I had done the story yet. It's the Cheshire murder.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 you've probably seen a 2020 or a nightline about it. It was super famous.

Speaker 1 It happened around the same time as the Oklahoma bombings, but it was more talked about in the news more consistently because it was that really infamous um connecticut uh home invasion story that's a nightmare home invasion from start to finish it's a nightmare it's a nightmare and also it's just this is just sinister and creepy because cheshire connecticut so there's a documentary on hbl called the cheshire murders highly recommend uh i watched that this morning and um it will tell you the entire story but it's very hard because it's all the relatives so it's just like everybody right there on camera talking about how it feels.

Speaker 1 And it's incredibly rough because this is

Speaker 1 a,

Speaker 1 you know, this is a multiple

Speaker 1 rape, murder situation on a family who live in one of those towns where when they show all the shots, it's like all the A-frame houses with the lawns. There's no fences between any of the yards.

Speaker 1 And the area these people lived in was pretty upscale.

Speaker 1 So basically, what what happened is on the night of July 22nd at 7.30 at night, Jennifer Hockpettit went to the stop-in-shop with her 11-year-old daughter,

Speaker 1 Michaela. And

Speaker 1 they're just shopping for groceries and they're spotted by a recent parolee named Joshua Komasarieski.

Speaker 1 is basically how you pronounce the last name.

Speaker 1 They said it in this documentary probably 30 times. And every time I'd say it along with them or repeat it after I heard it, and I still, it's Commissar Jefsky or Commissar Jefsky.
I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 So this guy's watching them in the grocery store.

Speaker 1 I might as well just get to this part now. A very upsetting part in this documentary is this guy who is in his mid to late 20s.
I want to say 27, but I can't see it on my paper. But

Speaker 1 he had a girlfriend like in the years prior. And the father of that girl that this guy dated talks on camera about how they said that they thought they wanted to get married.

Speaker 1 And the father said, I have two problems with that. You're a career criminal and you're a pedophile.

Speaker 1 And he's like, and my daughter looks and acts a lot younger than she is.

Speaker 1 And so this girl who is the same age as him is on camera and she completely, if you, if you said she's 16 or 15, you'd be like, sure. And she was like in her mid-20s.
Holy shit. So it's, um,

Speaker 1 there was some part that got confusing where it was like he also tried to date her younger sister and it was a thing.

Speaker 1 So this guy, and of course it turns out that later in the documentary, uh, it turns out that he was molested as a child, very young, terribly. And for most of his life.
So he had,

Speaker 1 he was adopted. This father that they show a couple pictures of is one of the most disturbing disturbing looking individuals, like always right behind him, kind of creepy.

Speaker 1 Oh my, how did I not see this documentary? It's pretty good.

Speaker 1 I mean, the thing is, by the time you get to the part where they're talking about what life was like for these two dudes that did this home invasion, you're like, oh, I don't care. Yeah, I don't care.

Speaker 1 These are monsters. I don't care.
Because that happens to a lot of people. Not a lot, hopefully, but.
And they don't become monsters. Exactly.

Speaker 1 The only thing, though, is it is interesting because when something like this happens, over and over people go, who could do this? Who, how do you you do something? Like, I don't understand.

Speaker 1 How could you do this? How could you do this? And most people just go from that question to kill them, just kill them. Don't, why even give them a trial?

Speaker 1 It's that mentality, which we all, because it's so hard to comprehend. It's just like this compounded abuse that's just generations long, probably, because the guy who abused them was abused too.
And

Speaker 1 I mean, it's bad. All right.
But it's interesting.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, because that's, that's the thing with pedophiles is that

Speaker 1 oftentimes that's where it's coming from. It doesn't happen to them.

Speaker 1 But it just, it puts a very strange light on an already very upsetting case. So

Speaker 1 they go home from this grocery store. The mom and daughter go home.
This guy follows them home and goes and sees where they live.

Speaker 1 He had just, he was living in a halfway house or he had just gotten out of a halfway house. He was just paroled.

Speaker 1 And so was his friend Stephen Hayes, who is considerably older and also has a very long both of them have crazy long criminal records um both are uh

Speaker 1 like burglars or whatever this guy

Speaker 1 and when they talked about josh commissaryski um they actually say he had a photographic memory he was incredibly intelligent he was an incredibly talented um artist and they start showing these illustrations that he did and they look so much they reminded me immediately of the pictures in Silence of the Lambs when Dr.

Speaker 1 Lecter has those hand-drawn pictures of like

Speaker 1 Italy, you know, that like he's basically drawn his own pictures. So he

Speaker 1 from memory it's the exact same thing where this guy has these illustrations that are like so insanely detailed and beautiful and amazing.

Speaker 1 So, and he had,

Speaker 1 you know, so he's a, he's a smart person, but a very cunning and very sociopathic.

Speaker 1 And so was the other guy, Stephen Hayes, two of his brothers in this documentary talking about him, how he was a monster from their childhood.

Speaker 1 It was like burning their hands on stoves, like nightmare older brother shit that they had to live with.

Speaker 1 So, of course, in the end of this, when these two guys get caught, they tell the exact opposite stories of it was this guy's idea.

Speaker 1 And so it's very interesting because one guy looks like something out of a movie of a bad guy and the other guy looks like like a young pot dealer that would live in San Diego.

Speaker 1 But the truth of it is, they think that it's the young guy that was the mastermind behind it all. The artist, the smarter guy? Yeah.
Sure. So

Speaker 1 anyway, those two meet up at a bar and they talk about their plan and how they're going to go rob this house. And at 3 a.m., they go up to the house.
And when they walk up, they see that Dr.

Speaker 1 William Pettit is sleeping on the screened-in porch on the front.

Speaker 1 And so Josh goes and grabs a baseball bat from the front lawn that they passed on their way in, takes it and starts beating this guy in the head. How do you go to a house at three in the morning?

Speaker 1 Like, you're just asking for,

Speaker 1 go, you know, go in the middle of the day when no one's home. You want to find people there.
No, they want to, they wanted this,

Speaker 1 the Josh guy, part of his thing was they said when he would go and burgle houses, he would go in different rooms. He would, he would pick places like.

Speaker 1 it would be like a state trooper's house that he would be burgling and he would after he stole all the things he wanted to steal he would stand and listen to people breathing. Holy shit.
Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 And then also the guy that was talking about him, I think it was probably one of his old defense lawyers, said that he could remember every single, every single thing he stole, where it was, where the like item, if he took a wallet out of a pair of pants, it was hanging on the back of the chair.

Speaker 1 Like he had a photographic memory. Weird.
Yes. So.
that part of the joy of it was the fact that he knew that family was home. At least they know that for that was his pattern in the past.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So they beat

Speaker 1 the father in the head, tie him up and put him down in the basement and tie his wrists and ankles to a pole in the basement.

Speaker 1 He's got, he's, his head is split down the front, and then there's like three huge gashes in the back.

Speaker 1 Oh, honey.

Speaker 1 So he's down in the basement. They have him shut down there.
Then they ran, they tie up.

Speaker 1 The mother and both daughters in each of their respective rooms, tie them hands and and feet to the bed, put pillowcases over their head, and shut the doors of all those rooms.

Speaker 1 Then they ransack the whole house. And by the time they're done looking through everything, they're not happy with their haul.
They didn't get enough.

Speaker 1 And they find a Bank of America bank book and they see that the amount in the bank is like over 15 grand or it's a bunch. And so they're like, here's what we're going to do.

Speaker 1 You, when it's 9 a.m. and that bank opens, you're going in there, you're taking out $15,000 and you're bringing it back here to us.
And then we will leave you alone.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 at 9 a.m., this woman goes into her bank, goes up to the teller, says, I'd like to withdraw $15,000. And as they're doing their business, she says,

Speaker 1 I'm doing this against my will. People broke into our house last night.
The guy drove me here. He's in the parking lot outside right now.
He has my family back at the house.

Speaker 1 Like his partner has the family back at the house.

Speaker 1 She actually was quoted. The teller said that she said,

Speaker 1 they're mostly nice. I think they just need this money.
And she's like, but you need to tell the police because, you know,

Speaker 1 I was told to come in here and not say anything. And so like, please handle this.
And so. The teller, there's a woman in this documentary who was in the bank when all this happened.

Speaker 1 And she said she saw the bank manager run from the teller's little depot into her office and shut the door and start making the phone call. So it happened like immediately.

Speaker 1 And then Jennifer Pettit got her money and left the bank. So she didn't wait around or anything because I surely she was probably on like a timelander.

Speaker 1 So Stephen Hayes is in the car waiting for her outside. The other guy's back at home.
The other guy's back at home.

Speaker 1 So they find video footage, gas station, video surveillance that Hayes had bought $10 worth of gas from two gas cans that he'd gotten from the pett at home before they went to the bank.

Speaker 1 So they know it's premeditated murder.

Speaker 1 So, when they get,

Speaker 1 oh my god, does she know they have gas? Extra gas? I don't know, no, because she's tied up in the room, so I think they're doing all that business themselves.

Speaker 1 So, when so, this is where the stories split because Josh has one story and Stephen has the other. But Stephen's story is he gets back from the bank with Mrs.
Pettit,

Speaker 1 and he thinks they're going to take this money. He's picking him up, and they're leaving.
When he walks in, Josh says, I I have left DNA in one of the children. We have to burn this house down.

Speaker 1 We have to kill them and burn this house down. Holy shit.
And that's when Stephen's like, I was not in this. That in according to him, he was like, this is crazy.

Speaker 1 Then he looks outside and sees that from the moment that bank teller got on the phone with 911,

Speaker 1 like it was minutes later, they say like three to five minutes later, cops were outside of this house. so

Speaker 1 they look outside stephen sees that there's cops outside which you know she had promised him he would not call the cops and he goes crazy starts strangling her the mom oh no i don't like that it's bad he strangles her rapes her after he strangles her

Speaker 1 oh

Speaker 1 my

Speaker 1 god

Speaker 1 Okay, it's like a week away. It's like a week away from 4th of July.
4th of July passed a week ago. My fucking neighbors are still, this has been happening all week.

Speaker 1 They've been letting off fucking fireworks. But that was the worst time that could have happened.
So loud. And I saw a fucking, I saw the spark.
I did too. And there was like a big flash.

Speaker 1 Wow. My heart.
Do you want to shut that since now there's

Speaker 1 fuck's sake? We're trying.

Speaker 1 We're trying to talk about murder.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 Oh, my god, that's hilarious. So, okay, I can't wait to hear that.
Yeah, um,

Speaker 1 it's like so many people have their headphones in right now and got so freaked out when that happened. I wonder, yeah, because it was that was crazy, loud, and we both

Speaker 1 freaked out. You know what? That was like our podcast version of, you know, in a movie when suddenly a car gets side

Speaker 1 fucking T-bumped or they close the

Speaker 1 medicine cabinet and there's someone saying, Yeah,

Speaker 1 we just, it was like we like put that into our own scary, scary scary podcast that was scary enough as it was. Sucked.
Guys, don't be mad at us because we're as upset as you are. Yeah.

Speaker 1 If not more. Now, here come the cops.

Speaker 1 Did you hear that?

Speaker 1 Okay. So,

Speaker 1 okay. So, Stephen Hayes has just strangled and raped the mother.

Speaker 1 So, turns out while they were at the bank,

Speaker 1 he

Speaker 1 Josh

Speaker 1 had gone upstairs and raped the 11-year-old. The one who he thought looked like his ex-girlfriend? Uh, yes,

Speaker 1 but she was 11.

Speaker 1 There was a 17-year-old daughter. Yeah.
That no, nobody went into her room ever after.

Speaker 1 So it's super crazy.

Speaker 1 And when you hear his confession on tape, it's super disgusting because he act he is using so many euphemisms and kind of trying to talk like they chatted and they were talking about school and I brought her a glass of water.

Speaker 1 Like it's all very sweet

Speaker 1 romantic in his mind. It's super gross.
Um,

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 1 then they pour gas over both girls

Speaker 1 still alive. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 And then throughout the entire house, light the house on fire, and then run out the front door, get into the pettit's car, drive one block away, get pulled over and arrested.

Speaker 1 So the entire time, now in the, in the aftermath, when they made announcements, the mayor or the city, you know, councilman or whoever were like, and we'd like to thank the police and fire did a great job and all this stuff.

Speaker 1 Well, it turned out from when they finally, because they had like kind of redacted all of this information, they weren't, there was a gag order on the whole story.

Speaker 1 They like the press couldn't report on it, on any details. They didn't know any details about it.
And then they finally get like the phone reports and the 911 calls and everything.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 they had a perimeter. They were setting up a perimeter five minutes after the 911 call came in from the bank.
And

Speaker 1 they were all just sitting outside in that perimeter. They had, no one had called on the phone.
No one had knocked on the door. No one had even approached the house in any way.
They heard Mrs.

Speaker 1 Pettit screaming and nobody went up.

Speaker 1 The house caught on fire and they still didn't do anything.

Speaker 1 So basically, in the amount of time between when they went to the bank and came came back is when all of the major crimes happened and the police were just sitting outside not taking action, which, you know, it's this is a town that was like 25,000 people.

Speaker 1 So again,

Speaker 1 and there were some people that argue that this is a small town, but this is a small town in terms of police handling major crimes.

Speaker 1 So they had basically no idea what to do and just set up a perimeter and waited and didn't do anything. So

Speaker 1 like, those, those god damn it. Should I screw it? That was that sounded like an actual firework.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you could, I just saw like Disneyland thing,

Speaker 1 yeah, except this is fucking Los Felis, yeah, fucking Disneyland. Yeah, and fireworks are illegal in

Speaker 1 an addition, and it's been happening pretty much every night since 4th of July.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's isn't it like July 10th? It's like July 10th right now, it's six days later,

Speaker 1 guys. Anyway, uh,

Speaker 1 to wrap it up, when Dr. Pettit escaped the basement, he, it was basically right around the same time as the house was lit on fire.
He was like, smelled the smoke and whatever. And so he, with his,

Speaker 1 I'm, I'm looking at fireworks over your shoulder. I'm moving.
I'm fucking moving. Um,

Speaker 1 so Dr. Pettit runs up the backstairs.
His feet are still bound. He's like hopping with a bloody face across to his neighbors.

Speaker 1 And there's like a little forest in between his house and the neighbor's house.

Speaker 1 And he sees the cops hiding behind trees and is screaming, help my family, save my family, as he's running over to the neighbor's house. And they're just keeping their positions.
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 So all of that part, they like effectively swept that part under the rug. And the family kept asking questions and like, it was like, there's a gag order.
We can't tell you anything.

Speaker 1 And it wasn't until the case happened that they found out all this horrible shit of all the really hideous details of what happened. And then they also, um, Joshua's diary was uh uh put into evidence.

Speaker 1 And um, basically, after they got arrested, they both turned on each other, said it was the other person's idea. Um,

Speaker 1 and it's really hard to pull apart because even in this documentary, like you can see how Josh could be the mastermind, but you could also see how Stephen Hayes could just, I mean, this idea, like when his lawyer was trying to tell that story of, like, oh, we saw the cops, and that he felt very betrayed, and that's why he strangled and raped Mrs.

Speaker 1 Pettit. It's like, yeah,

Speaker 1 I don't think so. No, people don't strangle and rape people when they feel betrayed as a whole.
I mean, they say it's like an explosive anger reaction or whatever, but it's like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I feel like they probably were planning on doing that anyway. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So anyway, they're convicted of the murders and they're sentenced to death in 2010.

Speaker 1 Well, that was

Speaker 1 Stephen Hayes was convicted in

Speaker 1 2010.

Speaker 1 Joshua Komasariwski

Speaker 1 was convicted in 2011 and sentenced to death in 2012. And in August 2015, the state of Connecticut abolished the death penalty.

Speaker 1 So now Hayes and Komasariwski are had both of their death sentences commuted and now they're serving life sentences. What do you think? Who do you think was the mastermind?

Speaker 1 You know, it seems to me

Speaker 1 that it's the younger guy. It seems to me that it's the Joshua Komasarovsky guy because he's the one who raped the 11-year-old.
Yep. He's the one that had this kind of plan.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I think he's the one that like the other guy was a burglar and kind of on drugs and stuff.

Speaker 1 I think that guy was a career criminal in the, in that way, but I think Joshua had some really, really deep, serious emotional problems.

Speaker 1 Well, when you think of like, hey, when you think of someone saying, hey, I found this house that's perfect for us to break into, like

Speaker 1 one of them knows who's in that house and what's going on. Yes.
The other one might not. And so it seems that he had an ulterior motive for sure.
And the other guy didn't at first. Right.

Speaker 1 He just wanted to make some easy money or like, just thought it was like they're out of jail. They're out of a halfway house.
They need jobs. You can't get a job as the next con

Speaker 1 very easily.

Speaker 1 You know, they're just trying to get back to it. Also, that guy, Joshua, was kicked out of the army, which is always a bad sign.

Speaker 1 They didn't go into any of the details of that, though. Anyway, the Cheshire Murders.
It's an old HBO documentary. So I found it on HBO Now or Go or something on my Apple TV.

Speaker 1 But it's really interesting and really, it just fucked with everyone. It's considered the worst crime in Connecticut history.
Just poor little girls.

Speaker 1 And it fucked with everybody because it was home invasion.

Speaker 1 So it was just like your utopian life can be invaded by two criminals who are, you know, it's almost like there's on one hand, you have like a burglary.

Speaker 1 You have you're not home, someone comes in and steals your shit. But someone who's bold enough to do a home invasion robbery, that scares the shit out of me.
The person who would be willing to do that

Speaker 1 is has no,

Speaker 1 has no what. Well, part of the enjoyment, at least they know for a fact that Joshua had was the fear that he liked the fear he put into people

Speaker 1 because, and that he actually wrote a bunch of stuff about it in his diary that was on this thing that was just basically like that's he feels that scared and and freaked out and wants to scream inside all the time.

Speaker 1 And so it makes him feel better to see people torture like that. So, when you're the one whose people are fear, then you're not.
Yeah, holy shit, It's deep. It's dark.
And yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm staying home from now on for the rest of my life. But then what if there's a home invasion robbery? Well, and also that's where all the fireworks are.
So home is where the fireworks are, you know?

Speaker 1 Oh, man. Yeah.
Elvis is hiding under the bed right now. So we can't end the show until he comes out.
My friend Sean, who asked me if I was going to do this,

Speaker 1 the one that's from Cheshire, Connecticut.

Speaker 1 So when he watched this documentary, he kept talking about how freaked out he was because it was his, he goes, that's my bank. I've been to that bank so many times.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Like, this was his hometown murder. And he was just like, he said watching this documentary, it was just like, that's his town.
Ooh, that's scary. Elvis.

Speaker 1 Wow. Elvis doesn't want to cook.
Cookie.

Speaker 1 Cookie.

Speaker 1 I bet he does.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 You guys go to.

Speaker 1 Instagram, my favorite murder. Twitter is my fave murder.
We have our Facebook group, of course.

Speaker 1 Thank you guys for listening. We really love this podcast and we appreciate that you guys listen.
It's super awesome times. And you know what? Stay sexy.
And don't get murdered. Elvis? Want a cookie?

Speaker 1 All right. Thanks, guys.
Bye. Bye.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 We're back. Another story about police not having enough training.

Speaker 2 I mean, it's everything about the story is a disaster and so horrible.

Speaker 1 Heartbreaking, awful.

Speaker 2 And then meanwhile, fireworks go off as I'm trying to tell it. And that truly, I can remember when that happened.
Like I remember looking at you when it happened. It was one of the scariest things.

Speaker 2 Like we had, we had just had

Speaker 2 that whole, you're the Christopher Dorner story. I'm in the middle of telling this horrifying thing.
And then it sounds like someone's shooting at your window.

Speaker 1 And I have to explain that my apartment had, there was a little driveway next to it, like a 1930s apartment apartment building driveway in LA, which is like impossible to drive through.

Speaker 1 So it was a tiny little, and then next to it was a little walkway and then the other apartment. Like we could just see right into each other.

Speaker 1 It's like it was so, and that's where they were setting off the fireworks. It was so close.
They were always doing that.

Speaker 1 They were always grilling things and the fight in the fucking little driveway and the fire would be, I mean,

Speaker 1 so crazy. Yeah, it was, it was a different time in our lives.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no respect for a studioless true crime podcast that's being recorded.

Speaker 1 Although one time the guy did bring me some of the meat that they had been growing, which is really nice. Really good.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay, so I have a couple updates to this story.

Speaker 2 Well, one is just kind of random, which is one of the perpetrators of this crime, who in the story is identified as Stephen Hayes, has transitioned since there's really can't find a good source confirming what their name is.

Speaker 2 Now, this is kind of actually a really lovely kind of silver lining, which is that in the memory of his wife and daughters, William Pettit created the Pettit Family Foundation.

Speaker 2 And since he established it, they have raised over $10 million for STEM, chronic illness, and violence prevention.

Speaker 2 So if you want to find out more about the Pettit P-E-T-I-T Family Foundation, you can go to pettitfamilyfoundation.org and maybe even donate.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 That episode was a lot.

Speaker 2 You know, little did we know back in January of 2016 exactly what we were signing up for in pretty much every way, shape, and form. Oh man.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's really kind of crazy to listen to and kind of think about these early episodes again.

Speaker 1 Just like, wow.

Speaker 1 Everything's changed and nothing's changed. Yeah.
But everything's changed.

Speaker 2 So different.

Speaker 1 So, oh, but there's so many things that are the same. I know.

Speaker 2 In some ways, we're kind of stuck in a weird time loop.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So we better get it right this time.

Speaker 1 Let's try. Let's just try.

Speaker 1 All right. So we could, I mean, I don't think we can get any better than 20 knives.
20 knives.

Speaker 2 So genius.

Speaker 1 That's brilliant. But based on what we name the episodes these days, which is, you know, a recall back to something silly that was said in the episode, what would we name it now?

Speaker 2 Look somewhere else, bro, which was you basically saying, if you're getting your facts from here, look somewhere else, bro.

Speaker 1 I mean, very accurate. And it's great that we've always known that and stood by that.

Speaker 2 And that our audience loves to remind people who try to come in and be like, hey, guess what?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 We know that and they know that.

Speaker 1 This isn't the place. This isn't even Wikipedia.
We're beginners. We could name it tubes tubing about inner tubes.

Speaker 2 Or home is where the fireworks are

Speaker 2 in a scary storytelling show, then a scary audio experience, which is just like, I don't know if I've ever been that scared in that moment.

Speaker 1 But I kind of love it. It's just like, that's where we started.
That's right. You know?

Speaker 2 It was real because it was hot. The window was open because it was hot.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And there, you know, it was an apartment.
There's nothing you can do about it. That's where we started.
Yeah. That's where I lived.
I loved it.

Speaker 1 And sometimes fucking fireworks went off next to your door.

Speaker 2 It'd be really cool if right now Alejandra opened the door and just threw two fireworks at us. And we'd be like, boom, boom.
It's still the same.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, thanks for listening to this episode of Rewind.

Speaker 2 It feels like people are loving Rewind. So we're very happy to be doing this for you.

Speaker 1 If you could rate. review and subscribe on wherever you listen to podcasts.
That would be really helpful and awesome. We appreciate that.

Speaker 2 You know what also would be really helpful and awesome if you would stay sexy and don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Nicholas Sparks is here.

Speaker 4 I would imagine that you've gotten a lot of feedback about setting a standard of romance that a lot of men can't measure up to.

Speaker 5 I have heard stories. At the same time, I've had seven marriage proposals in lines to sign my book.

Speaker 1 Get up to the table. Doodle dropped to his knees at night.

Speaker 6 I'm like, dude, you're in a Walmart in Birmingham, Alabama, you know.

Speaker 7 Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 8 Whenever I got through the window, I tried to pick him up, and his body was stiff.

Speaker 9 I'm Ben Westoff, and this is The Peacemaker, a true crime podcast about a string of mysterious suicides at a Missouri university and the fraternity brother tied to them all, Brandon Grossheim.

Speaker 8 The lawsuit says Grossheim was one of the last people to see each victim before their deaths.

Speaker 9 Was he profoundly unlucky or was something much darker at play? Listen to the Peacemaker podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 3 The courtroom isn't just about justice. It's about power and money and some truly bizarre loopholes.

Speaker 1 I'm Michael Foote. And I'm Melissa Malbrunch.
And we've got a brand new show called Brief Recess: a Legal Podcast.

Speaker 3 Every week, we talk about wild tales from court, trials gone wrong, and cases and rulings that shape our world.

Speaker 10 Today, we're going to be talking about stolen antiquities, all the weird things Melissa found out in an estate sale, the crazy conversations I had with a bouncer, and J.K.

Speaker 1 Rowley. Ugh.
We make the complicated clear and the serious surprisingly fun.

Speaker 3 From the Exactly Right Network, new episodes of Brief Recess drop every Thursday. Watch Brief Recess on YouTube.

Speaker 3 Listen to Brief Recess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.