Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 24: …And Twenty Justice Four All

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Speaker 2 This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culture Eastas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

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Speaker 1 Terms apply.

Speaker 1 Hello. Hello.

Speaker 1 Welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. This, and you may know this already, but this is our Wednesday episode where we travel back in time to recap old episodes of this podcast.

Speaker 1 Then we return to the present. It is a very painful process.

Speaker 1 It is a painful process. Today, we're recapping, painfully, episode 24, 24, which we named and 20 Justice for All.
Fucking classic.

Speaker 1 This came out on Thursday, July 7th, 2016.

Speaker 1 So get ready to defy the laws of space and time because now we're all going to be day one listeners. Okay, let's do it.
Let's listen to the intro of episode 24.

Speaker 1 Do you want a podcast?

Speaker 1 Do you want to start a podcast? Hey, do you want a podcast? Hey. Hey.
Hey. We need a way to start this and end this.
That's like

Speaker 1 clean,

Speaker 1 distinctive. What if it was like a 70s newscast kind of like

Speaker 1 that? That'd be good, right? Yeah. Let's just end.

Speaker 1 Instead, it's just me laying down on the love seat.

Speaker 1 You leaning back on the couch. I lean back on the couch like a kind of like an old drunk hobo leans on a park bench.
Right, Steven? Stephen had to put his hand over his mouth. It was that accurate.

Speaker 1 So true. He's like, I'm seeing, it's as if my hat is tipped forward.
Yeah. And I'm leaning on this love seat like Mrs.
Roper

Speaker 1 on a fucking if Mrs. Roper went and got some scissors and cut her calftan in half.
Uh-huh. Because Georgia doesn't fuck around with full length anything.
No, you're all about the leg.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's true. I do show a lot of leg.
Well, because it's, you know why? That's Summer Georgia in full effect. Full effect.

Speaker 1 Thank you whoever made that I I did a kind of rude thing.

Speaker 1 I posted the picture summer Karen in full effect on my Twitter page and then after I did it went oh, I probably should have found out who made that. Oh, right.

Speaker 1 I didn't have the name man fucking credit gives me so much stress. I know like I won't it's so hard to make sure that everyone gets credit and you don't want them to hate you and stop making shit.

Speaker 1 That's right. Well, here's the thing.
You have a job that you go to every day.

Speaker 1 You have dogs, which everyone knows is very stressful.

Speaker 1 I have

Speaker 1 no day job. I mean, I work from time to time.
You do stuff, though. Yeah.
I have extreme anxiety, which causes me to constantly do things. Yeah.
Which is great.

Speaker 1 Mine causes me to constantly not do things. That's interesting.
Oh. Because you're like, I can't do this right.
I'm not even, this is going to suck. I won't do it.
Exactly. I freeze up.

Speaker 1 I have perfectionism. And then I'm, yeah, I just go fuck it.
I've, I've spent my life saying fuck it, essentially. Wow.
Cause I'm, I don't have perfectionism.

Speaker 1 So I'm like, let's fucking try this and see what happens. And then we'll learn from our mistakes and we can quit it if it sucks.
That's the way to be. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like if you do everything, like if at a, at a, at a B plus,

Speaker 1 you know, and no one else does anything else because they think they're going to get a B. Then that rounds up to an A.
Then I get a fucking A. Hell yeah.
You know what I mean? I like this.

Speaker 1 I have to rely on other people's. perfection anxieties to just deliver mine.
God, that's really smart. Did I tell you my grandma's, my grandma's saying, bigger dummies than you.
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 You know, it's so good. It's so good and bad at the same time.
My grandma's saying was, be quiet now.

Speaker 1 Is she Romanian?

Speaker 1 No, that's Irish.

Speaker 1 She was a vampire or something. Oh, be quiet now.

Speaker 1 She was a gypsy. I only saw her once.

Speaker 1 I love it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, just try it. And if it sucks, you can just walk away from it.
Girl, I'm about it. it.
I mean, you were right about this podcast. But, oh,

Speaker 1 let's walk away from it. No, no, like, just try it.
Why don't we try it? Let's just do one and see how it goes. That's my whole motto.
Yeah. Let's do one and see how it goes.
It's very smart.

Speaker 1 And now everyone's making these awesome crafts, which, by the way, I gave my fucking P.O. box on the Facebook.
Is that a mistake? No, it's a P.O. box.
I know, but

Speaker 1 man.

Speaker 1 Would you think someone's going to go stand by the P.O. box and wait for you? Yeah.
No, that's whole point of P.O. boxes is there's someone that works there.

Speaker 1 And if someone's just starts standing by a P.O. box, they're like, hey, hey, weirdo with the kitchen knife, get the fuck out of here.
I'm just, I don't know why.

Speaker 1 I'm just going to always go with Vince. So anyone who's thinking about beating me up, I'm going my big tall husband,

Speaker 1 who will probably do nothing. I love the idea.

Speaker 1 A P.O. box would make you this nervous.
See, this is like we're now we're opposite C's again. This is where I'm brave, where I would just be like,

Speaker 1 come at me. Give it your best.
I'm terrified. I know, but who cares? I mean, you could take a nice swing at somebody.
What a stupid way to die, though. Like, what?

Speaker 1 I feel like if I heard that, like, this girl who has a true crime podcast put her P.O. box up and got killed.
What a fucking idiot. Why did she do that? That's what I would think.
I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 P.O. box is like the most vague.
Like if it's a city, you don't even know if the person lives in that city. You just got the P.O.
box. That's true.
And also, this is Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 There's so many people here. Yeah, so like I almost want to say millions.

Speaker 1 That sounds fucking right. I dare say.

Speaker 1 That sounds right. Okay.
All right.

Speaker 1 And also, no offense, but there's better PO boxes to stand next to.

Speaker 1 Everything was great up until you just said that. And now dummies than you.
So sad.

Speaker 1 There's so many better dummies in this town. Oh, no.

Speaker 1 Thank you. Don't be sad.

Speaker 1 I meant that in the complimentary way.

Speaker 1 Is there one? No.

Speaker 1 But I mean, Justin Timberlake lives here somewhere. That's what I'm saying.
Okay. That's what I mean.

Speaker 1 Don't kill Justin Timberlake, you guys. I was just going to say, go kill him tonight.
No, no, no. That's not okay.
The people who kill are not influenceable by these podcasts.

Speaker 1 We can't, they're not going to be like with their murder kit under the passenger seat and then be like, you know what, girls? You show me the way. No one diabolically listens to a podcast.
People only

Speaker 1 like at least medium joyfully listen to podcasts. No one's like, now we're baiting people.

Speaker 1 People are like, I'm going to show her. There's no like Mr.
Burns-esque podcast listener sitting at his desk going, you know, with his fingers. And like, no, he doesn't listen.
Marge listens.

Speaker 1 Simpsons, this all, this podcast always comes back to The Simpsons. Lisa totally is a fan.
Lisa's on that Facebook NPR for sure.

Speaker 1 Oh, I saw. Can I recommend a Netflix series that I watched all of in one day?

Speaker 1 Always, all of, always. Oh, olive.

Speaker 1 This is from our new section, Olives. All of time.
Olives, always. All of you.

Speaker 1 It's called Marcella or Marcella. They pronounce it because they're British.
So they'll do a fancy pronunciation that baffles me, as I've already proven.

Speaker 1 It's with Anna Friel. It's super good.
It's a female homicide detective who's all screwed up, as all the good ones are. They're always screwed up.

Speaker 1 I watched the whole season, which I think was eight episodes, maybe more, in a day.

Speaker 1 And it was so good. And there's a couple people on the Facebook page who have recommended it.
What's it called? Marcella is how it's spelled. Would you watch it, Steve? I want to watch it.

Speaker 1 I haven't seen it yet. I totally, you should watch it.
I've never heard of it. It's really good.
And it's like,

Speaker 1 I mean, do you like, do you like those kinds of procedurals, like a Luther or a

Speaker 1 what

Speaker 1 country of origin? England. Okay.

Speaker 1 Yes

Speaker 1 and no. Okay.

Speaker 1 It just depends. Sometimes I sometimes.
What do you need? What? What do you need? Oh, you know what? I loved is the one.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to remember the name. The one with the woman.

Speaker 1 Oh, yes, that one.

Speaker 1 Was she dead?

Speaker 1 No, she was a police detective and she was incredible. Oh, Happy Valley? Yes.
Yes. I loved Happy Valley.
And then there was another one. And I was just like, I can't with this.
I don't care. It's, uh,

Speaker 1 I just don't know. Maybe you need yours more character-driven.
Like, Happy Valley is almost more about her family. Yeah.
Her trying to deal with just her shit. Yeah.
I guess it was like

Speaker 1 about her, I could legitimately see why she was fucked up and sad. Yes.
And it wasn't like, just go get a fucking coffee and cheer up. Yes.
Or like,

Speaker 1 you don't have to talk like this.

Speaker 1 I didn't do those like dramatic bullshit things, like talking in dramatic voices and words that no one would ever fucking say.

Speaker 1 Not that I could understand everything that was said on that show because it's for some thick accents, but you watched the second season, right? I don't know if I finished it yet. Oh, it's the best.

Speaker 1 Okay. Anyways, sorry, go on.
No, no, no. That's just my recommendation.
There was like one lone person was like, did anybody watch this? It's so good.

Speaker 1 So I found that on the Facebook page and I was like, I did. I loved it.
There was, maybe there were two people actually. Sorry.

Speaker 1 But I just wanted to tell more people if people liked British procedurals like a Luther or a,

Speaker 1 I don't know, Dexter? Was that good? No. I watched that.
I did not like Dexter. Never saw it.
It was super cheesy. It's a different type of

Speaker 1 procedural because it was very heavy-handed. It was also narrated, which I almost always hate.
Oh, interesting.

Speaker 1 Was it like CSIE? It was, actually, but yes.

Speaker 1 It was CSIE. But Michael Seahall is awesome.
He's from Six Feet Under. Oh, yeah, of course.
He's great. And it's like the storylines are interesting because it's serial killer stuff.

Speaker 1 But there was just a lot of like,

Speaker 1 I don't know. And

Speaker 1 it didn't do it the way I like it. I went to his house on 4th of July once.
Really? Yeah. That's now.
This is,

Speaker 1 we'll call this this area is called Celebrity. Center.

Speaker 1 It's called Hudos Stock at a P.O. Box Besides Georgia.
Let's talk about it.

Speaker 1 Michael C. Hall is a good friend.
Michael C. Hall, for example.
I know where he fucking lives, you guys. If you're thinking of killing me at my P.O.
box, let me know and I'll give you Michael C.

Speaker 1 Hall's address. Good.
Throw him under the bus. Or give, why don't you have your mail sent to his

Speaker 1 mailbox? Okay. I can't wait to see what we start getting, though.
Like, as much as I'm scared of dying, I'm also excited for like presents. For living.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Someone, I don't even want to talk about it yet, but someone's made us lipsticks. What? Like our flavor of lipstick, like a Karen Kilgareth lipstick and a George R.
No, I can't.

Speaker 1 Can you even fucking I'm, I couldn't be more excited. I know.
I don't even want to talk about it yet because I just want to open the box with you.

Speaker 1 Should I open before and present to present to you like that? I think you like to do it. Or should I, should we open the stuff together? I have a feeling you have a very specific way you like to do

Speaker 1 a male situation. Well, I mean, yeah, probably things in general.

Speaker 1 Like, do you, would, do you like to have it be a surprise? Remember last time I was afraid moths were going to come out? That's like a thing.

Speaker 1 I like a surprise, but probably because you, I knew you knew everything about it. Um, yeah, we could do either way.
I guess it's, I don't know, we could do anything.

Speaker 1 It might be fun to open it together. Yeah,

Speaker 1 and neither of us know.

Speaker 1 What if we open it and then we have to fake our response because we're not that stoked on it, or like, you know, I used to work at BioBottoms, which was a children's natural fiber clothing company in my hometown.

Speaker 1 Okay. And the returns?

Speaker 1 It was called BioBottoms. They made a shit ton of money.
But the returns department used to come and tell us weird shit that they got. Like, what? Like, just dog shit.

Speaker 1 Like, someone sent back a box that just had an old dried piece of dog shit in it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. I'll open it first and then we can take it out.

Speaker 1 I mean, as much as it would be fun to do that live. No, let's do it live.
If we got, we should get like corners, like goggles, the full suit, gloves. Hazmat.

Speaker 1 Go hazmat with it. Or should we open it all on video and post that somewhere? Yeah.
Make people pay to watch us open mail. That's a good idea.
I mean, why not? Pay to open free shit. Come on.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we should do it on video. Here I go again with my fucking plans and schemes.
Plans and schemes. You're the architect of this high-rise building that we're living in.
She lives together.

Speaker 1 I'm just a

Speaker 1 conduit. Fueled by too much coffee and Adderall.

Speaker 1 And the invisaline and the invisalign i just took out of my mouth because i realized how awful it sounded

Speaker 1 i actually get great joy from watching you take your invisalign out of your mouth because it looks like it's three times bigger than your mouth as you take it out like it's so it's an event it is i i feel like and then there's like a like a string of saliva attached to it it's real sexy fun so you know what someone recently emailed me and said uh i listened to your podcast and you thank you for talking about depression and anxiety.

Speaker 1 I have it and I've never done anything. Where do I even start to find a therapist?

Speaker 1 And I was like, so stoked this person wrote me because to me, it's like fucking second nature. I've been doing this since I was 12.
So I'm just like, what?

Speaker 1 And so I gave them Psychology Today has a great,

Speaker 1 a great

Speaker 1 page. You put in your zip code and it tells you the psychologist in your area.
That's how I found my therapist. Yeah, I found most of my therapists through that.
And I love my therapist.

Speaker 1 I've been with her for like 12 years. Yeah, really.
Wow. Yeah.
And that's, it was one day, I think I tried one other person because I told my friend who was a therapist, so I couldn't go to her.

Speaker 1 So she's like, just tell me what you want. I'll recommend.
And I said, I need to talk to somebody that looks like Olympia Dukakis. Well, that was a mistake.
You can't do it that way. No.

Speaker 1 You can't cast it in your mind and then pretend you're going to go act out scenes. They do have photos.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I've definitely been like, that's it. She looks like a hippie.
Right. I don't want to go to her.
I don't want to go into a cloud of pot to talk about myself.

Speaker 1 She doesn't know what it's like to just wear all this makeup all the time. I don't want someone who keeps interrupting my good stories with their stories of Woodstock

Speaker 1 and the doors. Yeah,

Speaker 1 uh, no, that Psychology Today, yeah, is this shit that website? Yeah, so in case you're too scared to ask, don't be scared. Everyone's in therapy, yeah, and everyone needs to be in therapy.

Speaker 1 Also, Psychology Today is the freaking best magazine. Yeah, it's good.
You should get it. It's all about understanding yourself.

Speaker 1 Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, that was so condescending.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're back. Georgia, would you like to apologize to British Procedurals right now or Olivia Coleman personally? Personally, yes.
My apologies to Olivia Coleman.

Speaker 1 You are a fucking, the queen of queens, literally, and I'm fucking obsessed with you. British Procedurals, yes.

Speaker 1 It's still Karen's thing, but I support.

Speaker 1 I'm forcing your hand on that one.

Speaker 1 You're just being nice.

Speaker 1 A little bit. A little bit sometimes depends.
We still have that P.O. box, right?

Speaker 1 We still have that P.O. box.
And luckily, I don't pick up that mail anymore, if you can believe it. So feel free to go and hang out at the P.O.

Speaker 1 box, but also send us whatever the fuck you feel like sending us. We get wedding invites.
We've gotten maple syrup. We've gotten hot dog earrings, paintings of Steven.

Speaker 1 So much, like I have a wall full of paintings of my cats in my office right now. It's just my favorite thing.
It's pretty great.

Speaker 1 You guys have been very generous over the years, but if you haven't been generous, you still have a chance. The P.O.
Box is my favorite murder ink at P.O. Box 39585,

Speaker 1 L-A-C-A-90039.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the explanation I had to give to the guy at the post office to get my favorite murder like listed,

Speaker 1 He looked at me very strangely and I had to, you know, get my dimples going to be like, everything's okay. It's fine.
Don't worry. It's about something else.

Speaker 1 It's cute. Don't worry about it.
You're like, as if that would be the creepiest thing that's ever happened at a P.O. box.
Come on. Right.

Speaker 1 Grow up.

Speaker 1 All right. So this is when I first share my Grandma Molly's saying, bigger dummies than you, which makes me so happy.

Speaker 1 I was just in an episode of the therapy podcast, Your Mental Breakdown, and I talk about this saying specifically and how much it means to me that it's become part of our lore because it just like memorializes my grandma.

Speaker 1 And I love that.

Speaker 1 And it also just lets people know that you can have a little wider perspective when you're feeling insecure, when you're feeling like you have self-doubt, that like you have to think about what's gone on in the world for the last couple thousands of years and how dumb a lot of people have been.

Speaker 1 And they weren't insecure.

Speaker 1 And they've accomplished everything so like you can fucking do it too get out there with your talent and your brains please this isn't the same but my friend crystal is a Pilates instructor and I had like this toe nail surgery mishap and you know I love my feet they're so cute and I was like bitching to her about how my toe is ruined and she goes Georgia have you not seen other people's feet

Speaker 1 she's like I see people's feet all the time. She's a Pilates instructor.
I promise yours are still like on top. And I just stopped caring about the toe thing.
Like it really helped me.

Speaker 1 I forgot that other people have hideous feet. I love

Speaker 1 even mine. I mean, she really did it for me.
Grandma Molly and Crystal, high fives all around. Everyone's doing an incredible job.
It's very important to have other people help you keep perspective.

Speaker 1 You can't do it for yourself all the time. Yeah.
Shame thrives in the shadows, right? That's right. Brene Brown says.
So fucking scream that shit to the ceiling. Might as well.

Speaker 1 Don't let your friends and your grandma talk you down

Speaker 1 so karen this is when you tell your like legit classic i mean

Speaker 1 awful hometown

Speaker 1 a true hometown of mine a true hometown i mean i i don't know why like re-listening and remembering that you worked with polyclass's mother i completely forgot that i mean yeah this is such a hometown for you well and it's that kind of thing where like when you thought of the idea of people sending in their hometowns, the idea is there's so many people that have like these kinds of connections.

Speaker 1 It didn't happen to you. It didn't happen in your family, but it happened in a way that affected you.

Speaker 1 It's like Michelle McNamara in I'll Be Gone in the Dark, where it's like these things happen around us and it affects us and watching how it affects other people. affects us.

Speaker 1 And if you're an empathetic human being, you know, the fact that these senseless murders happen,

Speaker 1 there is a ripple effect, and that ripple effect matters. And people,

Speaker 1 there is the tragedy, and there's the part that shuts people down entirely. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then there's the part where then people become detectives, they become forensic scientists, they become victims' advocates.

Speaker 1 Like, you know, the ripple effect isn't sometimes can actually end up doing good, which is a pretty cool thing that I think as this podcast progressed, we started to get a handle on, where it went less from the salacious kind of oh, Ted Bundy, blah, blah, blah, you know, 90s attitude that we came up with.

Speaker 1 And then it turned into like this, this is real. These are human stories.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the fact that, like, for a lot of us, these stories have stuck with us in a way that we're not allowed to talk about because we're not involved. And we're not, you know, it is the victim's story.

Speaker 1 It is their family. We're not that.

Speaker 1 We're not trying to say that, like, you know, boo-hoo us, but like, they've stuck with us and in our heart in a way that we've never been able to get out because people don't talk about this.

Speaker 1 And I feel like we've given people a platform to talk about it and still acknowledge that they care about it, even though they're not directly involved.

Speaker 1 And I mean, there's no better proof of that than web sleuths, people that are online actually doing that work that could actually get cold cases solved. Like that's real.

Speaker 1 And that has nothing to do with like the media aspect of it. It's like the people going and trying to help get the job done.
Like the Doe Network. Yeah, all of that.
It's incredible. It's incredible.

Speaker 1 All right, let's listen to Karen's hometown story, the murder of Polly Klass.

Speaker 1 This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Okay, let's talk holiday shopping.
From now through December 8th, you can get 20% cash back when you pay in four with PayPal. No fees, no interest.

Speaker 1 This limited time offer is perfect for the Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals you've been eyeing. Save the offer in the app now.

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NMLS 910457. Goodbye.
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Speaker 1 Who's going first this week? I think it's you. Skipper Times, come back to us, skippers.
Oh. If it's mine this week, if I go first,

Speaker 1 I've

Speaker 1 been, this past week has been quite crazed. Do you want me to go first? No, no, no, I can go.

Speaker 1 But I just want, I just need a little ramp up of, I had plans and schemes about what I was going to do and then realized I needed to do more work,

Speaker 1 like really dig in and do some serious research.

Speaker 1 Cause that's the thing is sometimes you go to talk about, so I want to do Ted Bundy because I'm three-quarters of the way through that and rule book, The Stranger Beside Me, which is amazing.

Speaker 1 There's other people on the Facebook page reading it.

Speaker 1 So I love that that we're reading it at the same time.

Speaker 1 But when I do it, it should be comprehensive and not, you know, half-assed because he is, yeah, he's pretty much one of the most famous serial killers of our time.

Speaker 1 I like sometimes when you will like pick a part of that story or pick, you know, you don't have to tell him from start to finish, but like,

Speaker 1 you know, the co-ed murders that he did. Yeah.
Like, if you pick a thing from it or how Richard Ramirez got caught, I think that was an amazing story on its own.

Speaker 1 I'll say what I'm passionate about about Ted Bundy. But no, when I do it, it's going to be a three-hour presentation.

Speaker 1 Let's just take a nap. Okay.

Speaker 1 Just read the book on the podcast. Yes, exactly.
In kind of a slow, low voice, where people are just like, all right,

Speaker 1 I was trying to get through my work days, but whatever you feel like doing is fine. Yeah, this podcast has changed.
It's a bummer. No, so I figured I would go back to my roots.
And I'm going to do

Speaker 1 my hometown murder, which is the most famous murder from my hometown, which is the Polyklos murder.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 the other reason I'm telling this is because not only was it a first-hand experience, I didn't live in my hometown when she was kidnapped,

Speaker 1 but I lived in San Francisco and I would go home for holidays and I was back and forth all the time.

Speaker 1 But Polyklos's mother is a woman named Eve, and Eve was my boss at the last job I had when I lived in Petaluma, which was at Biobottoms, the natural fiber children's clothing. Oh my God.

Speaker 1 Done, done, done. It comes back around.
So I actually didn't mean to make that reference, but then I was doing it. I was like, oh, I'm probably doing this on purpose, subconsciously.
But

Speaker 1 it was very strange because there's a lot of

Speaker 1 the times we look and we research these stories and it's these places that are like, you know, when we, when we talk about like the police messing up an investigation or things, you know, things getting screwed up or whatever.

Speaker 1 A lot of times it's because it's towns that have never had a crime to that degree, a murder, a kidnapping or something where people don't have the experience.

Speaker 1 And most of their career as a cop is pulling people over, you know, giving people like DUIs and stuff. Totally.
And it's before the internet.

Speaker 1 So you don't really experience, I mean, now we can read about other crimes in other cities. ad nauseum.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And people and all police stations are and cops are more connected because of the internet.

Speaker 1 So that's like that whole East Area rapist, the Golden State Killer thing, where there were, you know, there were police departments who are keeping information from each other

Speaker 1 because they were the ones that wanted the caller. That's, it's like all of that in the way that, you know, that criminal science is kind of developing because of the internet.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, um, so my hometown is Petaluma, California, and it is one of those towns where

Speaker 1 when I was growing up there, I think it, the population was somewhere around 32,000. So it was a small

Speaker 1 farm town basically. So the main town itself, there was like the downtown area.
The east side had like more of the newer development tract homes.

Speaker 1 Kind of everyone on the east side had like a two-story house.

Speaker 1 But on my side, on the west side, that was out where all the dairy and chicken ranches were. So that's, I grew up five miles outside of town.
And so we basically were, it was the country.

Speaker 1 And so when we like, when I was growing up, we didn't have cable. Holy shit.
We only had four channels. We only got four channels on our TV.

Speaker 1 And we couldn't get pizza delivered to our house because we lived too far out of town. And that was how a lot of kids I knew grew up.
It was just country.

Speaker 1 That just seems like I can't imagine being that far.

Speaker 1 Like as someone who grew up literally with like shared walls with other apartments. Oh, yeah.
I just can't even imagine living in that much space. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's, it's weird. It's like, you know, we didn't have sidewalks.
We didn't have, we didn't have street lights. Holy shit.

Speaker 1 So at night, I think now they do on the street that I grew up on, but like at the time, like there was when you drove at night out where I grew up, it was pitch black.

Speaker 1 I don't even know what that looked like. I have never seen the stars like that unless I'm camping or something.
It's so fun.

Speaker 1 When I go to my dad's house for like holidays, I get out of the car and I stand in his driveway. And they'll be like, come on, crazy! Like, it's like,

Speaker 1 it's stars from like horizon to horizon. Yeah, people who aren't in LA or New York or a big city don't.
There's no stars because there's so much light pollution that you just can't see.

Speaker 1 We can never see stars here, never.

Speaker 1 And the and people that live in, like, oh my God, if you live in like Kansas, yeah, like

Speaker 1 somewhere that's like kind of low population and and no light pollution, totally dang, dang, dude. We used to lay out at nights in the summertime.

Speaker 1 Our next door neighbor, the Withingtons, had a pool, and we would sometimes have like a slumber party where we'd all lay in sleeping bags next to their pool.

Speaker 1 And we would lay on their chaise lounges and look up, and there would just be shooting stars all night long. We just, that's all we did: go, there's one, there's one, there's one.
It was awesome.

Speaker 1 That's amazing. So, anyway, that's basically the feel of this town.
This was the kind of town where, and I think I've told the story before in the show, but like in my town, um,

Speaker 1 that one time a guy on the street tried to purse snatch a lady's purse, and everyone on the sidewalk chased him up the street. Yes, it's that everyone knows each other, everyone's from there.

Speaker 1 People like stay there, grow up there, stay there, raise their kids there. There's generations and generations of like ranching people, of all kinds of people.
So it's cool.

Speaker 1 It's, I feel, now I feel lucky. When I was growing up there, I was like, get me out of here.
Of course. I want to go to manhattan right um

Speaker 1 so when this happened

Speaker 1 it happened it was a little house that was on the uh a little walnut park that was i think it's walnut park um

Speaker 1 a little park that's in the kind of city center and it's really cute my friend heidi peterson's mom actually had a house so it's basically a park in the center and then the you know four streets squaring around it so it wasn't rural it wasn't in the middle of nowhere no they lived downtown Petaluma.

Speaker 1 Wow. So they lived walking distance.
Like the main part of downtown is like Petalumo Boulevard and Western. And that's where like the really old buildings, the old two and three story buildings are.

Speaker 1 They lived probably 10 blocks from that part of town. Wow.
So,

Speaker 1 but still,

Speaker 1 and this was, this happened in 1993.

Speaker 1 But even then, this was the kind of town where people did not lock their front door. Yeah.
You just didn't. There was no reason to.

Speaker 1 No, it seems like such a like what everyone says, like, you didn't lock your door, but like, oh, we did it. I don't think you did.
That's how, like,

Speaker 1 it was, I think that's also the, that's that thing of like people as as we get older and as this kind of like 2020 generation grows up, it's that thing of like, now we just know what happens to other people.

Speaker 1 Right. Our parents didn't do it because they came from a time when you didn't have to.
We do it as adults because we

Speaker 1 know the possibility. Right.
We didn't understand the possibility as much, I think. Yeah.
But also in these small towns, that it just didn't happen there.

Speaker 1 So it wasn't like you're like, well, we should be careful anyway. It'd be like, don't be weird.
Like, there's no reason.

Speaker 1 So on October 1st, 1993, Polly was having a slumber party with two of her friends. And Eve was in the front of the house.
Her mom was in the front of the house. And

Speaker 1 somebody came in their back door, uh,

Speaker 1 walked into her bedroom. And the

Speaker 1 rumor is that he said, Which one of you lives here? Now, I know a bunch of small town rumors about this case,

Speaker 1 and they could completely be bullshit. But I'm basically just telling you this.
Oh, I want to hear those. Wait, so how old was she? She at the time was 12.
Okay, and so were they sleeping already?

Speaker 1 They were all awake, they were awake and like doing slumber party stuff. And the mom was awake and everything? Yes.
Holy shit. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So he tied the friends up first and put sleep pillowcases over their head. And then he took her out of the house.
And

Speaker 1 he told them to count to a thousand or he'd kill them.

Speaker 1 So they, once they heard him go, they got free and then ran to the front of the house and said someone took Polly. Good for them.
So the other thing is, Dave Anthony, the co-host of the dollop,

Speaker 1 my first comedy boyfriend,

Speaker 1 when we lived in San Francisco, he still worked at the bank in his hometown, which is Nevado, the town next, like the town next to my town

Speaker 1 going south to San Francisco.

Speaker 1 And his boss at that bank, his daughter was one of those two girls.

Speaker 1 So when this shit kicked off, it was like everyone you knew was affected and stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Everyone you knew knew a person, everyone you knew, like my sister's best friend, Adrienne, who is basically like my sister too,

Speaker 1 she pulled out a photo album one time because she also worked at BioBottoms. That job was actually really awesome.
It was like paid you way more than minimum wage. Right.

Speaker 1 It was a, and we basically just sat there from like six in the morning until two in the afternoon and took calls and took orders. And so you could actually make kind of a good living

Speaker 1 and then have the rest of your day done. So she was like a young mother.
She worked there with me.

Speaker 1 She pulled out a photo album one time of of uh, there was somebody who had a baby shower, and everybody was there. And Eve brought Polly to that baby shower.

Speaker 1 So, this girl was like, it's that thing where it's not just, oh, a girl from our town. We all feel so everybody knew this family.

Speaker 1 Holy shit, that's like, that's so crazy that when there's this like, and I've noticed this with hometown murders, that are all like my brother's best friend from college, or it's always someone, you know, it's not just the hometown murder, the thing that happened in their hometown.

Speaker 1 It's like a thing that could have been them, or they knew the people, or they affect, you know, affected them somehow. Totally.
So interesting.

Speaker 1 Well, and that I think that's also that thing that ties us into it is because, like, I remember the first time I went home, my sister called me to tell me that it happened.

Speaker 1 And the first time I went home, I drove. So to get off the freeway, I have to drive up Penaluma Boulevard.
And then my parents now live. My dad lives in town.

Speaker 1 They finally, of course, when we graduated from high school and moved out, that's when my parents moved into town and got cable and ordered pizza. They didn't have cable until you left for college.

Speaker 1 No. No, I, my, my friends would talk about the Brady bunch.
That was like on Channel 44, which was like, oh, that's the San Francisco station that like other people have.

Speaker 1 We just had dipshit Gilligan's Island. Anyway,

Speaker 1 I'm not shaming you. It's just like, it's such an interesting fact of your life.
Yeah. It's so weird.

Speaker 1 And also because my dad's a fireman, which is this classic move of firemen, which was, we have cable in the firehouse. We don't need that shit.

Speaker 1 Because so he saw all the terrible stuff that cable provided, and he was like, I'm keeping that away from my kids. And yet, it didn't make a difference.
Look at you now.

Speaker 1 Look at the things I'm talking about, and how much I say the effort. It has no, it had no bearing on your life at all.
I think it pushed me the other direction.

Speaker 1 Probably, and that's why I'm a Satanist. Just kidding, dad.
He's not listening to this.

Speaker 1 So, anyway, what the first time I came home after my sister told me about it, I'm pretty sure it was for Thanksgiving. Um,

Speaker 1 Or maybe it was somewhere in the middle of November. The entire town, because her, Polly's favorite color was purple.
The entire town and every fucking car had a purple bow on it. Like the

Speaker 1 purple ribbon, like the yellow ribbon for soldiers. There was purple ribbons for waiting for Polly to get found.
How long had she been gone by that point?

Speaker 1 Well, that she got kidnapped on October 1st. Wow.
And so this was probably three weeks. It was everywhere.
And it was like, it gave me the chills. By the time I got to my parents' house, I was crying.

Speaker 1 Oh, no. It was so heavy.
Then my sister, who loves to be this person, started telling me all the stuff that she heard. And apparently, so that happened the night of October 1st.

Speaker 1 The next day, they had to tell all the kids at Pedluma Junior High because she was in,

Speaker 1 I believe, seventh grade.

Speaker 1 And she was the beginning of seventh grade. Like if it was October, she'd probably only been in school for a couple months.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 They made the announcement that she was missing and they had flyers that said, have you seen me? And they said, after school, we want you all to hand these out everywhere you can.

Speaker 1 The kids got, took the flyers and all got up and left school right that moment and went out into the town. Are you crying? And

Speaker 1 started that. My sister told me that story and I sobbed for like 10 minutes straight because it's like these kids, this was a girl that was their friend.
This was the girl they had a crush on.

Speaker 1 This was like a real person, a human being that someone just fucking took out of her room. I mean, it's so brazen that it's, it's a nightmare.
It's, it's even scarier that it's just like not

Speaker 1 other circumstances, like she was alone or, you know, her parents weren't home or something. It's like

Speaker 1 you can't blame anything. How do you protect yourself? You can't blame anything.
Yeah, exactly. And, and also that, yeah,

Speaker 1 it's just, it's every parent's nightmare, it's every kid's nightmare. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 the young, the young children of that class in Petaluma High at Petaluma Junior High, I've always had just this, like, the biggest warm spot in my heart for them because also it was just like, we don't give a fuck, like, put us on detention.

Speaker 1 What are you going to do? We're going to go do everything we can to help find her. Yeah.
And how can you sit through the rest of the school day? I mean, I get it.

Speaker 1 I mean, I'm sure, you know, but it's just, it was kind of just a beautiful, incredibly sad thing.

Speaker 1 And the whole town took it that way. I mean, everybody, you know, they, they, uh, so Winona Ryder is from my hometown, okay.

Speaker 1 And she,

Speaker 1 I think she also grew up like out in the country, like I did. Um, and she went to Petaluma Junior High and Petaluma High School, and she

Speaker 1 uh came back and she made the announcement when they were still looking for her. So they ended up finding her, or no, they

Speaker 1 they ended up like making an arrest uh near the end of november the beginning of december so somewhere in there like at the end of november when owner rider went on tv and made an announcement at national news saying this girl's missing if you've seen her we love her she's part of the community this is my town like all the shit where you know i'm sitting in an apartment in san francisco watching it being like this is so weird this is my this is where i grew up this is my whole life and like and it's everyone going like, yeah, this is, this is our girl.

Speaker 1 Like, we have to find her. Someone has to do something.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 the horrible part of all of it is these, the, the policemen, the Petalmo police actually immediately called in the FBI. They did all that stuff that

Speaker 1 we talked, we talked about like there's other store or Novato, that other murder, that young girl, where they just immediately call the FBI. Like they know they're in over their head.

Speaker 1 They do the whole missing persons thing. But the problem was the night that it happened, when the APB went out, it went out on the sheriff's channel, which was channel

Speaker 1 one.

Speaker 1 And that night,

Speaker 1 there was some Sonoma Valley police officers that found. So a woman was.

Speaker 1 babysitting at her boss's house and she saw a car that was on her boss's private road.

Speaker 1 And so she called the police and said, I don't know who this guy is, but there's a car sitting down there. It's stuck in a ditch and someone needs to come.

Speaker 1 So it was the, from, from what I saw on Wikipedia, it said Sonoma Valley Police. I'm not sure if that's accurate or what area they were in.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But it was, it was somewhere kind of in the rural part.

Speaker 1 So it all goes kind of starts going by county. So it might have been Sonoma County Sheriff, Sonoma County Police, whatever.
But they call the police to go out there.

Speaker 1 And the police who went were on channel three. This was before they had united all of the APB channels.
Oh, God.

Speaker 1 So if the APB went out for the sheriff's department, it only went out to the other sheriffs on channel one, I guess.

Speaker 1 Now they have it

Speaker 1 because of this kidnapping and this murder. They changed all of that.
So the second an APB goes out in 911. whatever thing like that, everybody hears it on all of those channels.

Speaker 1 But it wasn't like that then. So these two cops go up and they check this guy out.
They don't know, they don't like how he looks. They don't like where he is.

Speaker 1 They don't, they're asking him a bunch of questions. He's got an open container.
He's clearly been drinking. He's got leaves in his hair.
He's got shit on him.

Speaker 1 And, but they search the car. There's nothing going on.
There's nothing in the car.

Speaker 1 So there's nothing they can do. They told, they really didn't like they just the feel of it, knowing nothing about what was going on.
They didn't like him. But but they told the um

Speaker 1 and this is going to sound blamey but it's it's one of those things where it's like you it's better to overdo it than not do anything at all definitely because they told the uh property owner um

Speaker 1 you need to make a citizen's arrest so we can arrest this guy because we can't there's nothing that's going on that we can do anything about because this is a private road it's your property so you need to come out and say i want uh you're under citizen's arrest and then we can take him away And the property owner was like, I don't want to do that.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So they, which is understandable because then he knows where she lives.
That's exactly right. The minute she, you know, he gets let out.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 so they have to let him go. Yeah.
But what they did was they did, they basically did every little piece. This is like now the opposite of most of the stories we hear.

Speaker 1 These cops did every little piece of paperwork they possibly could about this guy.

Speaker 1 They took his name, they took all the information about his car, where they were, the the report and everything, and they filed the thing. It's called like an F1 file or something like that.

Speaker 1 And it was the one thing that they could basically do was, was fill out this,

Speaker 1 what is it called?

Speaker 1 It's called an,

Speaker 1 it doesn't really matter. It's like an F1 card or something like that.
Okay.

Speaker 1 That basically says, This was an event that happened that the police got called to that we don't like, but there's nothing we can do, but it happened and we want people to know.

Speaker 1 So they did that immediately. And then when did they find out that that's who that was? Sorry, it was an FI card, a field interrogation card.

Speaker 1 Okay, so they have all his information, they have the car information, and what happened. Sorry, what was the question? That's that makes sense.
So when did they realize who it was?

Speaker 1 Or were you getting that? I thought that's what you meant. Oh, okay.
So, no, so once they left,

Speaker 1 they don't know. On November 28th, so then it was basically two months later.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 That same property owner is inspecting her property after loggers partially cleared the property of trees, and she discovers items that make her think that they might have matched those used in the kidnapping.

Speaker 1 Oh, no. So the sheriff's department goes out there and

Speaker 1 they find a torn pair of ballet leggings that match by the FBI crime lab

Speaker 1 to the other part of the leggings that were taken as evidence the night of the kidnapping. So they basically

Speaker 1 the theory is that he had already taken her out of the car and hidden her out in these bushes

Speaker 1 while, and then went back to the car. Then the cops pull up, and he's just like, Yeah, you can look at any shit that I want because she's tied up in the bushes over there.

Speaker 1 They don't know whether or not he, when they arrested this guy, so this guy's named Richard Allen Davis.

Speaker 1 He has, he is on par with Charles Manson in how many times he has been arrested and been in jail, like the worst record miles long.

Speaker 1 He wouldn't tell them anything. He wouldn't tell them the events.
Once he confessed that he's the one that killed her,

Speaker 1 he wouldn't give them details of anything. So they would try to walk him through it and he just wouldn't say what happened or what he did or anything.

Speaker 1 He just admitted like they had all the enough evidence to bring him to trial. And he basically was like, yeah, I did it.

Speaker 1 But he didn't, he didn't tell them. He didn't, they don't know if she was murdered that night.
They don't know if he kept her for longer, but she wasn't found. Her body wasn't found there.

Speaker 1 Her body was found off of the 101 freeway

Speaker 1 pretty far north up in Cloverfield,

Speaker 1 which is like, it's so weird too. Like when I, you hear all these things, like, these are the towns where we played, we played against them in softball in high school.

Speaker 1 It's like the town you would go to. We would go there on our way to Blue Lake on our our way to vacation.
Right. Like every summer.

Speaker 1 No, I'm picturing places in Orange County and I can, I can make sense of that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So it's just like, you're just thinking as you drive up, it's all so rural up there anyway, but as you drive up, you just look out and somewhere off the side of the highway, there was a little girl's body buried.

Speaker 1 I hate it. It's really awful.

Speaker 1 Essentially, they, the three-strike law was put into place after this case happened

Speaker 1 because this guy had such an insane record where it was like, you can't just get arrested for a ton of terrible shit like 50 times in your life and not have and just keep getting out and keep doing stuff like this.

Speaker 1 Like he, he was,

Speaker 1 um, he was pretty awful. So he admitted to strangling her to death.
Um, but that's all the information that he would give. Um, I wonder why he wouldn't, because he was toying with them.

Speaker 1 He would think that if he had gotten them. Sorry, am I interrupting you? No, not at all.

Speaker 1 You would think that if he had not killed her before the cops came, he would have wanted them to know that so he can like taunt them almost.

Speaker 1 He was super weird. So when they, when they put him on trial, he did a bunch of weird shit.
He flipped off like the jury. Like he was Mancini in that way, where he, it was stuff like

Speaker 1 Before they arrested him in my town, there was the rumor was that the father did it. Oh, fuck.
And it was because they were like, he's got, you know, he owes money to the, he owes money for gambling.

Speaker 1 He's this, he's that. And the father was on TV constantly.
If you remember anything from this case, you remember Mark Kloss being on TV and talking about her.

Speaker 1 So I think a lot of people in my town, their reaction to that was like, it seems like you're enjoying this. publicity a little too much.
Looking back, that poor guy. Yes.
That's an awful thing to say.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, that's small town gossip, you know what I mean? Where everyone's looking for the answer, and so it's easy to get a target on your back, sure.

Speaker 1 Um, and also, it just it's it's one thing to be on the news crying and being like, I need my daughter back, but I don't know.

Speaker 1 There, I, it was easy to kind of put that on him because I think it would, he

Speaker 1 was a zealot, but I mean, you know, that's it's that thing of like, we don't know how people grieve, right?

Speaker 1 And, and he could be the kind of person that's like, I just need to do something with myself. Sure, look at

Speaker 1 Nicole Simpson and

Speaker 1 Ron Goldman's dad. Yeah.
You know,

Speaker 1 kind of out of his mind. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, who's to say how you would act how it would be? Here's the good news, if any, about any of that.
There's a, there's now, they took the, um,

Speaker 1 there was this little church that in this weird part of the road where I go to go to my dad's house.

Speaker 1 And they took that, and that's now called the Polyclass Center for the Performing Arts because she was big into theater and she wanted to be an actress.

Speaker 1 And that was why it meant so much that Winona Brider came back and talked about her.

Speaker 1 It was all very sweet. So, they've kind of dedicated that to like kids, you know, making sure kids, like, I guess, have a place to perform.

Speaker 1 And I don't know, it's for that part, it's very sweet and positive.

Speaker 1 Um, and the thing about they basically all the things that got fucked up in the beginning of with through communication, they actually did stuff about sure. Yeah, that's cool.

Speaker 1 So, like the APB thing thing and the three strikes law, they're like a lot of good things came out of that.

Speaker 1 It's amazing, but also, um, Richard Allen Davis actually had to get put into solitary because he was getting beaten up so much. So,

Speaker 1 God bless like that jailhouse justice. Like, they couldn't, they couldn't wait to beat this man up for killing this girl.
I mean, I want to say good, but at the same time, it's you can't

Speaker 1 say that. There's no, yeah, there's no conscience, there's no good, good.
But

Speaker 1 they actually, and he's on death row. He got the death sentence.
So he's still alive now? He's still alive because California doesn't ever really execute anybody.

Speaker 1 So it's just, it's people sitting on death row. But his lawyers actually tried to say,

Speaker 1 they

Speaker 1 have tried to

Speaker 1 get,

Speaker 1 where's this part? They basically tried to say that it's torturing him by making him wait to find out when he's going to be executed. Oh, they tried to make that argument that it's like that it's

Speaker 1 what do you call that? It's called the inhumane. What is it called? I don't know.
Something like it's something along those lines.

Speaker 1 Or it's just like when you, when I read the paragraph, I was just like, you got to be fucking, who would actually have the balls to say that out loud?

Speaker 1 God, sometimes, sometimes I get really mad at lawyers.

Speaker 1 I don't want to start the whole like shit talking that we do about cops sometimes because I know it's complicated and you promise to do these things and you're and uphold the law but sometimes I'm just like

Speaker 1 I just don't know how they live with themselves sometimes when they're defending someone who's a monster exactly and and doing the best that they can to to

Speaker 1 to get them off I guess it's not I guess you just want to give them a fair trial yeah it must be hard i would never want to be a lawyer no ever no oh cruel unusual punishment there it is yeah that's the one we were looking for wow uh yeah That's sad.

Speaker 1 So that's mine. I actually had a lot of guilt for not doing this story earlier because it was, it's my real hometown murder

Speaker 1 because I knew like I was, it was really a part of my life.

Speaker 1 But then also it feels bad to talk about, like, I actually hesitated in saying her mom's name because I don't want it to seem like I'm trying to anything.

Speaker 1 Well, Karen, you started crying and I don't think you've ever done that in any of them before. I don't know.
So I feel like it's important. And I don't think you should feel bad at all.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Also, there was, this is, there was another little girl that got killed in my town that no one talks about because she was black. Her name's Georgia Moses.
And that story is really sad and awful.

Speaker 1 I'll do it a different time. But that actually gets brought up a lot in tandem with Poly Klass because it's like Poly Klass was a beautiful little girl.
She was like, you know,

Speaker 1 she was.

Speaker 1 No, she wasn't blonde, but she was. She said she was blonde.

Speaker 1 But it's that thing of like, you know, the press loves

Speaker 1 like a beautiful little martyr like that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then when it's a story of a girl who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks and had all the worst in her life and then was just murdered, like just thrown away, no one talks about it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Except for Tom Waits, who lives in my town, who lives way out in the country, wrote a song searching for Georgia Moses. Yeah, I bet you could find his P.O.
box pretty easily. Is that terrible?

Speaker 1 Not at all. Thank you.
Oh, George and Moses. I'm sorry.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But I'm all, yeah, that's fucking

Speaker 1 bummer. I know.

Speaker 1 I know. How do you feel now?

Speaker 1 You know what? I'm glad. I'm glad I said it.
Do you feel cleansed a little? No. Okay.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 I just think it's like, you know what? It's all around us. That's kind of the thing that

Speaker 1 I feel like keeps coming up on this podcast. It's like.
This isn't special. No, I know.
It happens.

Speaker 1 The people that it happens to are, and it's a full-on tragedy in ways that you can't even take in, but it, it happens constantly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's like a, it's a very normal part of life, which I think once you, the reason we're doing that is because like we're, we see that and we're freaked out by it and fascinated by it. And

Speaker 1 like we could have a million episodes and not get to half the like everyday murders that just happen all the time that you haven't heard about or you haven't didn't know the details. For real.

Speaker 1 It's just,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. People get fucking murdered.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're back. I mean, oh, that like close call where he gets

Speaker 1 like, you know, his car gets searched by the cops. There's just no way they could have known, but she wants so bad for her to have been discovered at that moment.

Speaker 1 It's just like such a fucking tragic detail. So horrible.
So horrible. Yeah.
I mean, mean, everything about the story is horrible, obviously. There are a few updates on this case.

Speaker 1 In May of this year, Richard Allen Davis's attorneys argued that his death sentence should be recalled because of recent changes to California sentencing laws.

Speaker 1 A California judge rejected the resentencing bid, and Davis is still on death row.

Speaker 1 And the Poly Klass Foundation, a national nonprofit focused on recovering missing children and promoting child safety policies, has assisted to this date 10,000 families in locating their missing children.

Speaker 1 That's

Speaker 1 incredible. If you want to donate to the Polly Class Foundation or learn more about them, please go to Pauli, the name Polly, P-O-L-L-Y, K-L-A-A-S dot org.
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

Speaker 1 Make a little donation to Polly Class Foundation? That'd be amazing. I would love that.
10 grand at fucking polyclass.org, the Polyclass Foundation. Yeah, that'd be great.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 Oh, also, I talk about this. There was a kind of a parallel case that I brought up in this story, which is the murder of Georgia Lee Moses, which is, I believe, still a cold case.

Speaker 1 And Georgia Lee Moses was a young black girl. I think she was 13 years old or 12 years old.
And she was found.

Speaker 1 I mean, I've already heard me say it if you just listen to that clip, but it didn't get really any coverage. So, so we also donate to the Black and Missing Foundation? Yes, great idea.
Beautiful.

Speaker 1 Okay. Let's go.
It's blackandmissinginc.com. So 10 grand to them immediately.
Yeah. We had Dereka and Natalie Wilson on the podcast.
I mean, when was that? Was that like two years ago?

Speaker 1 That was during the pandemic. It was terrible.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 But they were amazing. We got to talk to them about this foundation, about the work that they do.
I believe there was a HBO docuseries about them. Definitely go watch that.
Incredible. All right.

Speaker 1 Let's move on to more fucking horribleness, shall we? Okay, now it's time for Georgia's story, and she tells the legendary story of the murder of Kitty Genovese.

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Speaker 1 What's your murder? So my murder. Okay, like a month and a half or two months ago, we got an email inviting us to the screening of a new documentary called The Witness.

Speaker 1 And it's a documentary about Kitty

Speaker 1 Genevieve's. That's how you say it, right? Kitty Genevieve's.

Speaker 1 And we couldn't go. And so the guy sent us a screener to watch.
He did? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Can you see that? There's like a password and shit. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm an email skimmer. Oh, okay.
I'm constantly in trouble for it. That's hilarious.
I like read into every single word on an email. I'm like, what do they you really mean by that

Speaker 1 i just saw that invitation and i was like they and it was a big long thing about being invited but there were no details where i was like what time like where yeah what and then i just kind of gave up after that yeah i mean and i was kind of like okay whatever about it um and this was like a while ago and finally i started watching it last night and it's really good oh awesome yeah the the narrator the guy who's kind of the the

Speaker 1 in the in the shit of it, he's like the dude who, who you follow is Kitty Genevieve's little brother. Wow.
Yeah. In real life.
Yes. Wow.
So he, okay, so let me tell you about the murder a little bit.

Speaker 1 Okay. Um,

Speaker 1 I was saying, so Catherine Kitty Genevieve's was

Speaker 1 stabbed to death outside her apartment building in Kew Gardens, Queens. Like, I feel like everyone knows the story.

Speaker 1 And that's why I was a little like, okay, like I've heard the story a million fucking times. She's the girl that basically everyone is like, she was being stabbed.

Speaker 1 There were 38 witnesses from an apartment building across the street and no one did anything. And it kind of started the whole like

Speaker 1 the bystander effect, bystander effect where nobody, you know, the more people watching something, the less likely anyone's going to interview Veen.

Speaker 1 And it had, it had all these like, these effects on New York and what's happening to the city and people are horrible and, you know,

Speaker 1 this kind of, this kind of awful thing of, of nobody helping. Yeah.
It's in like every psych 101. Totally.
Yeah. So

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 1 And so I don't want to spoil the movie because I think everyone should go see it, but I'm going to talk about the murder so that people remember what it is and also some of the interesting points from this movie without spoiling it because I don't think I could do that.

Speaker 1 It's really fucking good. Okay.
So on March 13th, she finishes her shift at a sports bar.

Speaker 1 She's a bartender and she gets home and parks her car at three in the morning at like a side parking lot, which sucks. And I feel like she immediately saw her killer.

Speaker 1 Winston Mosley was like hanging out, clearly looking for a victim.

Speaker 1 So she gets home at like 3.15. She parks.

Speaker 1 It's about 100 feet from her apartment door.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So she's walking towards her building. He starts to approach her.
She immediately starts running and like knowing something's going on.

Speaker 1 He overtakes her and stabs her twice right there on the sidewalk, right across the street from this huge apartment building.

Speaker 1 And so the story is that people came out and looked, and no one fucking did anything.

Speaker 1 But in reality,

Speaker 1 it's so much murkier than that. What it sounds like is that most people thought it was a lover's quarrel.
They look out the window, but she's, but she yells, oh my God, he stabbed me. Help me.

Speaker 1 But most people didn't hear her cry out in the beginning. Most people thought it was a bar brawl or a lover's quarrel.

Speaker 1 And by the time a lot of people looked out, he was running away. And so she walks around the corner, stumbling to her apartment.
And so people see her go around the corner and that's all they saw.

Speaker 1 And in reality, people did call

Speaker 1 the police. But back then, you just called, you didn't call, there was no 911.
And this is part of the reason there is a 911

Speaker 1 now is because

Speaker 1 they needed. They need, you know, you can't just call the police precinct and get people there.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 1 the earliest calls to the police are unclear and weren't given a high priority by them. And it looks like some of them might not have even been logged.
Um,

Speaker 1 one witness said his father called the police after the initial attack and reported that a woman was beat up, but got up and was staggering around.

Speaker 1 So no one knew she was actually being stabbed.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 he fucking runs away when someone yells out the window, let that girl alone. This, like, you hear him in the documentary, and he's like this

Speaker 1 salty old man. He's amazing.
Let that girl alone. He runs away.
She staggers off. He

Speaker 1 mostly leaves, comes back when he realizes that no cops are coming and finds her again, which is the most fucking terrifying part of this whole story.

Speaker 1 So you can't. If someone had come out to see how she was, and there was a doorman in the apartment building right across the street, If someone had come out,

Speaker 1 you know, maybe they could have helped her, brought her into their house.

Speaker 1 Instead, she goes into the doorway of her apartment building, which has one, it's got one outside door and then a locked inside door. And she's dying.

Speaker 1 And so she can't get her keys or unlock that door. He fucking comes back and finds her in the stairwell, just like a fucking deer that had been,

Speaker 1 you know. And he, what, and stabs her more? Stabs her more.

Speaker 1 They don't mention, i haven't finished the documentary yet and they don't mention this and maybe it's just because he can't handle it which is fair but i read that he raped her after he stabbed her after he's well she was dying he raped her

Speaker 1 i don't know if they're going to mention in the documentary i i'm sure they will because it's a huge part of it but i heard that in the in the documentary it says that he attempted to so i wonder and the brother it's so interesting because he's like i've never been able to deal with i i haven't done the details of this until recently because I just couldn't handle it.

Speaker 1 And it seems like it was a really tight-knit family. Yeah, that's so understandable.

Speaker 1 I don't know how people now deal with that when they find out the details of horrible things that happen to their, their, like, those next of kin. I mean, it's awful.

Speaker 1 I mean, they didn't, I guess the family didn't even go to the trial because they just couldn't even handle it. I bet, you know,

Speaker 1 which is like, gee,

Speaker 1 what's great about this documentary is it feels like this guy is kind of like, the more I know, the closer I'll be to her. And I need to find out what happened and know the truth because

Speaker 1 this is the truth of that crime now is what everyone wrote about it and what people talk about it in sociology classes and shit, which is turning out not to be true.

Speaker 1 So, you know, the New York Times article said that it was 38 people witnessed it and didn't know.

Speaker 1 But so, but the upstairs neighbor looked out into the stairwell, sees her being stabbed, closes the door, and calls his girlfriend who said, don't get involved. But then later calls the police.

Speaker 1 So like, dude, you should feel like shit. Right.
Yeah. It's like, but also it's New York City.
I know.

Speaker 1 Like, it's that thing where, yeah, you don't, what are you going to go out there and who knows what's actually happening? Totally. Is it just the lover's quarrel? Do you really want to get involved?

Speaker 1 It's like, yeah.

Speaker 1 Not that I wouldn't get involved in the, not that the woman deserves it because it's a lover's quirl, but.

Speaker 1 But it makes sense in that city setting. Yeah.
Like anything can happen and you just don't know. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 1 You put your life at risk for a stranger who could turn around and be like, get the fuck down. Totally.
You don't know.

Speaker 1 Well, here's a really interesting, one of the parts of the documentary that I loved is he's interviewing the kid.

Speaker 1 And the family never knew that their next door neighbor, who was Kitty's best, like one of her good friends,

Speaker 1 as soon as she found out what happened, put on her house coat, ran out and held Kitty. until she until the ambulance came.

Speaker 1 And the brother in the documentary was like, I wish my, why didn't my family know that? It would have meant so much to us to know that her friend was there while she died.

Speaker 1 And so the son is being interviewed, the friend's son, and is like, here's the thing about this neighborhood. A lot of people were Holocaust survivors.

Speaker 1 And a lot of people in that building were Holocaust survivors. And

Speaker 1 you don't intervene. You don't stick your nose.
You don't.

Speaker 1 you know, get involved in what might happen within cops and police interrogations.

Speaker 1 You just fucking leave it alone, which is such a sad thing that you would never think about right you know well those are people that are like i've had plenty of trouble i i'm not doing it anymore right you mind your business yeah it's it's it's gross but it's hard to

Speaker 1 it's hard to argue so mosley gets um gets caught a couple days later when he's burglarizing a house He had no prior criminal record and he was married with three children.

Speaker 1 And he got up the night of out of bed where his wife was sleeping to go find a woman to kill. What? Yeah.
But he had actually killed two other women and he had never been caught.

Speaker 1 And he did a bunch of burglaries as well. Oh, so he is like a burgeoning serial killer.
Totally. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Let's see. He

Speaker 1 confessed to 30 to 40 burglaries.

Speaker 1 It's a psychiatric examination suggested he was a necrophile.

Speaker 1 Fuck. And then he said something.
He said

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 his motive was simply he wanted to kill a woman. That was his motive.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's pretty sick.

Speaker 1 So I have to say, I've seen the picture of that guy.

Speaker 1 He has very plucked eyebrows. He looks a lot like

Speaker 1 Prince and

Speaker 1 Richard Little had a baby. Richard Little? I'm not Richard Little.
Little Richard Little.

Speaker 1 Where am I? Oh, no.

Speaker 1 No, he does. That's exactly right.
He looks like a drag queen at the end of her shit. Totally.
Like, washed it all off, is ready to just, you know, high cheekbones.

Speaker 1 High cheekbones, very plucked eyebrows or something.

Speaker 1 Like a cat-like face. Yes.

Speaker 1 I'm picturing seeing that face standing above me, stabbing me.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 what is the deal? What is the deal?

Speaker 1 So, all right, he confesses.

Speaker 1 Let's see. He's a fucking necro.

Speaker 1 So, in the 70s,

Speaker 1 he, okay, so while in prison in the 70s, he gets a Bachelor of Arts in Sociology.

Speaker 1 Which is good. Insane.
Oh, good.

Speaker 1 Like, there's, you're not using that for good, dude. You're using that to understand your

Speaker 1 take advantage of people. That is Ted Bundy action, right? Ted Bundy was a psychology major.
Son of a bitch. Yep.
And they know, oh, that's so amazing.

Speaker 1 And then during his, he was eligible for parole in 84, which is like, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 And at his first parole hearing, he told the parole board, the parole board, that the notoriety he faced due to his crimes made him a victim, stating. Yes, he's the victim.
Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 For a victim outside, it's a one-time or one-hour or one-minute affair. But for the person who's caught, it's forever.
Yeah, much sadder. Yeah.
Much sadder.

Speaker 1 Oh, you get a minute of murder and I have to live the rest of my life in jail. Well, you know what?

Speaker 1 How about you put your super sociological mind to that and say, then maybe don't stab people and you won't be so deeply victimized by your fucking shitty behavior. Yeah, you're correct.

Speaker 1 And that's why you don't fucking not, that's not the only reason, but that's one of the reasons you don't murder.

Speaker 1 Well, that's, this is the Brock Turner thing of like, this, this drunken girl is ruining my whole future. And it's like, no, rapists.
Yeah. You ruined your future.
Yeah. You did it, dummy.

Speaker 1 Like they, it's they, it's that, it's very psychopathic. It's like you skip over the thing you did that made things happen.

Speaker 1 Have you known people like that where you're like, how do you not see your role in this thing? Oh, yeah. I asked that because I'm sure

Speaker 1 I have stopped participating with people like that for that very reason.

Speaker 1 If you cannot admit your own faults in your life, that the behavior that you bring to the table is the thing that affects and you know, creates the situation around you. If it's always other people,

Speaker 1 then you have a major problem. It's so, so weird to see those people.
And, like,

Speaker 1 I mean, it almost feels like the art, an argument, or the blame thing is like a game to win. Yes.

Speaker 1 And so, as soon as they can get you to not blame them and to take it all on you, which I've done many times with people, they win. You have to read the book, The Sociopath Next Door.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because I think in the, I think the numbers are, it's one in four

Speaker 1 of people are sociopaths. And those people have no conscience.
Everything is a power game to them. All they want to do is beat you and they will beat you

Speaker 1 in terms of money, in terms of sex, in terms of status. That's all they care about.

Speaker 1 And they don't have empathy. So you're constantly left going, I would never do this.
But it's like, yeah, that's right. Cause this isn't, this person is nothing like you.

Speaker 1 Are you scared you're going to like, if you read that, you'll just like look for that in everyone? I mean, I guess everyone

Speaker 1 look for it in everyone. You should, because then you know, when you're being mind fucked, you'll go, oh my God, that's, oh, now I realize why I'm so

Speaker 1 like, you need to know that information. Yeah.
Okay. You need to be able to spot a sociopath.
I think that should be taught in high schools.

Speaker 1 Can I put it in a comic book so Vince doesn't see me reading that and think I'm like studying up on him? Vince is not as filmsy as that. I know he's not.

Speaker 1 You just don't want him to see you

Speaker 1 paying attention to it. Yeah.
Or like being like, why are you reading that? Say, I'm doing it for you, baby. Yeah.
This is for, this is for the marriage. Say, I'm a sociopath.

Speaker 1 I think our cats are sociopaths.

Speaker 1 One in four. I mean, if we had one more person in this room, it would be one of us.
I'm thinking,

Speaker 1 it's so easy to like. put some of that on people I know.

Speaker 1 Well, also because sometimes people just piss you off. So it's like calling someone a sociopath is very satisfying.
It's like, well, this makes sense.

Speaker 1 But I do know people who, after being friends with them for a while and then being like, I cannot be friends with you anymore, you are like, you're basically a vampire. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Then when you, when you pull away and then you read this book, you go, holy shit.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, there's like a step-by-step thing where it's like, is this a person who would never cop to anything? Is this a person who only ever wanted to take more for themselves?

Speaker 1 It's like, it's a very clear kind of defining thing. Fuck, dude.
Read it. I think I over, I over accept responsibility for things because I don't, I'm trying so hard not to,

Speaker 1 not to let myself get away with shit. Yes.
Well, part of it, I do the exact same thing. And for me, part of it is an ego problem because I think the world revolves around me 100%.

Speaker 1 So I like the idea of people of like, oh my God, this person's doing this and that.

Speaker 1 Like it, it adds to my egomania of like i'm everybody's thinking of me all the time there is a certain something about like even being like i feel so bad about this thing that happened where it's like nobody why are we making it about you right not you specifically but like

Speaker 1 it's better to let it go like the healthier thing is to be like maybe i had 50 of that maybe i had zero percent of it yeah like but look at it learn from it move on and let it go but to sit around and be like oh i was so bad that time it's like yeah yeah you're just think thinking of yourself and not thinking of other people yeah i'm a sociopath are you i'm in video right now one in three one in three one in three including elvis it's me but what if it's me no it's not me well do you have a conscience yeah

Speaker 1 then you're fine i mean what's a can you what's a conscience no i totally do guilt

Speaker 1 i mean yeah we got that covered yeah stephen guilty

Speaker 1 do you feel it i feel guilty all the time

Speaker 1 we're all good we just think that the next person who walks to the store, which would probably be Venn, is the psychiopath. Let's play a game.
Your neighbor knocks on the door. Excuse me.

Speaker 1 Excuse me. My mom just drops in and I'm like, yeah, no shit.
Hi.

Speaker 1 Hi, welcome. Hi, my therapist was right about you.
Could you answer some questions for me?

Speaker 1 Let me just pull this book out of my back pocket.

Speaker 1 Oh, mom.

Speaker 1 Okay, what did I want to? What was my, let's see here. Holocaust survivors.
Yeah. None of the witnesses observed the attacks in their entirety because of the layout layout of the complex was weird.

Speaker 1 And it seems like she was attacked in two different places. Yeah.
And they, and as far as they knew, he ran away and she walked away and they couldn't see her anymore.

Speaker 1 And she was staggering. I mean, how do you? She only got stabbed twice.
So, how do you know you couldn't even see that she was stabbed by the time you run to the window?

Speaker 1 See, I remember that story from psychology class that she got stabbed like 35 times. She got stabbed a lot more once he came back.
Oh, okay. So that was, oh, I see.
The initial attack.

Speaker 1 The missible part was two stabs. Right.
The initial, like, when everyone saw it was two. And then he had a private moment, you know, a private doorway in the doorway.
So no one actually saw that.

Speaker 1 So terrible. That's so nightmarish.
There's a crime to remember about Kitty Genevieve's. Yeah.
And I just was like, okay.

Speaker 1 I didn't even watch it. You didn't? No, I'm sure I watched it because I watched every episode of that show.

Speaker 1 There's also a girls episode where they like

Speaker 1 talk about it. Oh, really? Like one of the guys is in a play where they reenact the whole thing.

Speaker 1 But of course, there's a lot of girls' drama going on, so they don't really talk about it. But

Speaker 1 I love that show. I'm not making fun of it.

Speaker 1 Let's see. So

Speaker 1 it became known as the bystander effect or the

Speaker 1 Genevieve's syndrome.

Speaker 1 But people are now questioning what really fucking happened.

Speaker 1 So, okay. So everyone go to YouTube and you can watch the trailer.
It's called The Witness. And if you go to the witness-film.com, it's in the theaters right now.

Speaker 1 If you have an art house theater in your town, and it's going to beat a lot of small towns, so it's not like random, and then hopefully it'll be on Hulu or something at some point.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 it's unlikely that she was able to scream at any point after she got stabbed the first time, anyways, because they stabbed her

Speaker 1 because they stabbed her in the lungs.

Speaker 1 That's right. Yeah, they punctured her.
He punctured, punctured they he punctured her lung.

Speaker 1 So after that second stabbing, she probably wasn't screaming anyways. So it's not like a bunch of people ignored that as well.
This whole murder is like worst case scenario. Fucking, fucking worst.

Speaker 1 Like she would have died from the initial attack, it sounds like, because he punctured a lung and she died from asphyxiation.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 and so if the cops had been called and at that point, they took her to the hospital and she died, it, it wouldn't have been the same thing as if he fucking ran away and came back and was like, nobody cares.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I can continue this.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's so

Speaker 1 awful to think about. Yeah, it's dark.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But the universal emergency phone number was created after this.

Speaker 1 And yeah, today it's used all the time. But so yeah, The Witness is the movie.

Speaker 1 It's by James Solomon, and it's a really fabulous, like, just watch the, I feel like anyone who listens to this podcast will watch this trailer and definitely want to see it. Yeah, it's really good.

Speaker 1 And it's such a classic case. I feel like even if you were, you've never been interested in true crime, you've heard the kitty Genevieve story.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 it like it's like prerequisite in college and stuff but i guess that's it's an interesting thing to be like yeah you know this thing that you've heard about your whole life it's not the way you heard it that's what i love about it so i hope it's not boring that i did this this case but I just thought it was the stuff that you never knew about it.

Speaker 1 And I really was, it's one of those cases where I was like, oh, I've heard that a million times. I know about it.
You fucking totally don't.

Speaker 1 And then to see it from the brother's point of view, who also is like

Speaker 1 kind of a badass

Speaker 1 dude himself. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It happened in the Bronx in Queens. Queens.
Queens. Yeah.

Speaker 1 People from Queens are kind of the greatest. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 You listen to it just for the interviews he does with the people who live around there. They're incredible.

Speaker 1 The accents are incredible. There's a lot of, there's like a beautiful

Speaker 1 illustrated element of it that they use as like interstitials or to

Speaker 1 show what was actually going on with this gorgeous illustration. Wow.
Yeah. Very simple line drawings, but it's super beautiful.

Speaker 1 I haven't seen this movie, but I also recommend the Crime to Remember episode about her, kidney Genovese, because they put out some other alternate theories that are very interesting.

Speaker 1 Wasn't one like the downstairs neighbor might have done it?

Speaker 1 Yeah, they don't, they didn't seem convinced he did it, but I didn't, none of that information that he'd already killed two other women was in there.

Speaker 1 They focused a lot on how racist the NYPD was back then. And so that they basically would grab up black people, black men and just be like, were you in the neighborhood? It's you.

Speaker 1 It sounds like way different than it is today. Oh, so, so different.

Speaker 1 I would just like to say, because I saw a documentary.

Speaker 1 Is yours done? Sure. Yeah, no, totally.
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 No, it totally is yeah um well i just saw this i'm gonna bring yours to an end so i can recommend my documentary that isn't true crime but well it is because it's crime yeah it's called tickled and it is

Speaker 1 unbelievably amazing because it starts out they're about this online uh tickling competition

Speaker 1 um tickling league

Speaker 1 professional tickling league i think it's called already need a shower yes except for it's not what you think. It's not some weird, like, can you believe these people exist?

Speaker 1 It goes into the craziest, darkest, scariest fucking thing.

Speaker 1 And it's this one New Zealand reporter who went, who went looking into it because he's basically a human interest reporter for the local news.

Speaker 1 He immediately started getting threatened. And so instead of being like, whoops, better close this up, he starts investigating.

Speaker 1 And it's amazing. And interestingly enough, and not to talk about them all the time, but our friends, The Dollop, who did a very, very popular episode about these tickling competitions very early on.

Speaker 1 Like this guy did, this New Zealand reporter did the story.

Speaker 1 Dave and Gareth got sent the story, I think by people in Australia or New Zealand saying, you guys have to talk about this. It's crazy.
And so then they did that.

Speaker 1 episode of the dollop was super popular and it's actually featured in the documentary. Shut up.
Yes. They have audio clips of the dollop talking about this.
He's made it.

Speaker 1 And it's the very beginning of the movie. And then it goes into like, he's like, he basically is like, yeah, I thought this was this kooky, crazy thing.
And then I started researching it. And it is

Speaker 1 edge of your seat. It was one of those things we saw at the Sunset Sundance, whatever theater.
And there was only like 10, 15 people in the theater.

Speaker 1 And a bunch of us were all sitting in one row, which was kind of funny. Like basically there was like nine people in one row, and then like four people outside of our row.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But by the end, we were all talking to each other.

Speaker 1 It was one of those, like, so upsetting, and like, oh my God, what's happening? What channel is it on? I want to watch it.

Speaker 1 No, it's a movie. It's a documentary movie that's in like art house theaters right now, like The Witnesses.
Man, we got to have a double feature. Yes.
I wonder if we could host a double feature.

Speaker 1 We should email this guy. Feel like we want to do this.
Another everything that comes up. You got an idea.
Man, I love it. What is that? It's the best.
It's you're, you're the reason.

Speaker 1 You're the reason it's all happening. I always think of myself as such a lazy person and I'm like constantly berating myself for being lazy.

Speaker 1 And then like, sometimes I'll have to write a list of things I'm doing to just be like, just look at this, George. Everything is okay.
Yeah. No, you're doing a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1 I liked when we were watching the Simpsons and we were on the same. episode and then you were like, we've got to watch episode five together and live tweet it.

Speaker 1 And I was like, you might want to watch the other episodes before you decide we should live tweet this. It's kind of a bummer.
I know. I was like, we can, why don't we do this? What if we do that?

Speaker 1 We can do this. We can do that.

Speaker 1 And like, sometimes, like, when you just got here, you were like, you kind of had a talk, like, we had a conversation about something regarding the podcast, and you kind of had to like talk me down from it.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I couldn't breathe.
I get it though. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You get, I can tell when you're excited or like there's a lot going on because you're, it, it almost looks like you're slowly drowning and you're trying to tell me something before before you go under.

Speaker 1 That's kind of what it's like. Take a deep breath.
It's happened my entire life. Yeah.
Like I have to yawn. I yawn a lot because I have to catch my breath.
And so I get so worked up.

Speaker 1 That's funny that you've noticed it. You have to think about breathing more.
Yeah. Because that's what yawning is about.
Yawning is about low oxygen levels. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And you have to like, your body goes, take this, take as much oxygen in as you can.

Speaker 1 It's so like I've gotten up in the middle of the night and like wrote a blog post about how like it's, you really feel like you're drowning and you can't breathe. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it, it's just anxiety. And then that perpetuates itself and you just still can't breathe.
And, anyways. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So a lot of great ideas, guys.

Speaker 1 A lot of great, oh, there was someone that made my favorite piece of art that got made on the, that got posted on the Facebook page last week is someone did a freehand drawing that was a picture of the forest that said,

Speaker 1 get a job, make it, buy your own shit, stay out of the forest. But, but with these banners, did you see that? Yeah.
It's so beautifully done.

Speaker 1 And it was someone who said their friend did it, but they're not, they don't want to be on the face. Right.

Speaker 1 Come on. Bless their souls.
I got an email from a girl that I know today who was like, I just started a new job and I overheard my coworkers saying, oh my God, I'm obsessed with this new podcast.

Speaker 1 And they were like, me too. And they were like, what's it called? My favorite murder.

Speaker 1 And my friend, Kelsey, was like, I was trying, I wanted to tell them so bad and brag that I knew you, but it's a new job. And I was like, tell them.
Look at her raise.

Speaker 1 She's like, I'm going to hold it for four more days. Yeah.
And then drop the bomb. And be like, guess what? Yes.
I love it.

Speaker 1 It makes me happy that a lot of people say they feel like we're best friends. Totally.

Speaker 1 Not with each other.

Speaker 1 Best. There it is.

Speaker 1 And that's it.

Speaker 1 We're done. Stay sexy.
No, are we? Yes. Okay.
Go do it again.

Speaker 1 Stay sexy. Don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 Ellis Ellis want a cookie. Want a cookie?

Speaker 1 That's a yes. Bye.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're back. Are there case updates on a story this old? Yes, actually.

Speaker 1 Well, first of all, I love the detail.

Speaker 1 And I think these are the things we look for now in stories that this case created the universal emergency phone number, 911, which is like just fascinating to me.

Speaker 1 You know, okay, this is early on, episode 24. I did not mention when my story took place.
When, yeah, that little detail.

Speaker 1 It's it's a journalist would have caught that, you know, the who, where, when, what, how, you know, you know what?

Speaker 1 Smarter people than me have covered this, and you should go read and listen to their shit. I am covering their coverage, and I forgot to mention that this took place in 1964.

Speaker 1 I was sitting across from you, and I didn't ask.

Speaker 1 So ridiculous. And also, the man who killed Kitty Genovese, Winston Mosley, died in a New York prison in 2016, so fucking recently.
Wow.

Speaker 1 He served almost 52 years and was one of the state's longest serving inmates.

Speaker 1 And it's so terrifying when you, when I was telling the story that he was trying to get parole and you're just like, absolutely fucking not. You know?

Speaker 1 All right. Well,

Speaker 1 that was it. That was the boiled down version of this episode.
So now we'll talk about what we could have entitled it instead of 20 justice justice for all.

Speaker 1 And the number of the word for is F-O-U-R. You know, it's not visual.
Yes, this is an auditory situation that we were doing written jokes like page jokes for. Lots of mistakes.

Speaker 1 We were very tired and working very hard and very surprised that anyone was listening to this fucking podcast. We meant very well.

Speaker 1 We did. We still do.

Speaker 1 We still do. And also, that's the thing.
We'll say it again and again.

Speaker 1 We're just people doing a podcast that's all yep that's all yep that's it all right so let's see we could call it obstetric we could call this episode obstetrician of t-shirts

Speaker 1 because I don't even fucking know

Speaker 1 because that's merch that's me saying that that's what you are by being a merch girl we could also call it plans and schemes which was all the ideas we had about doing unboxings I like that plans and schemes it's so funny like way back then we're like maybe maybe we'll do video.

Speaker 1 And it's like, now we have to do video. It's like, it's like required in today's world, today's modern world.
Got to compete. Got to get out there.
Got to do podcasts on video.

Speaker 1 We're on YouTube and TikTok and fucking Instagram and fucking all the shit. It's fun to be middle-aged on fucking all those websites.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like, and this, when this episode recorded, I was 36 and I was like, not yet, video.

Speaker 1 No, let me be 40 fucking four before I have to be on video. Let's wait a minute.
I'm going to dig my 11 lines down a little deeper.

Speaker 1 I want to have way more stress and then see what that does to my old face. You know, I want to wait until this filler migrates before.

Speaker 1 I get fucking lit from below and fucking on camera. Let's just wait until it's in the wrong places.

Speaker 1 We should have actually done flashlights under our chins for the Halloween episode, now that I think about it, now that you say that.

Speaker 1 It all feels like flashlights under the chin when you're on video, it's tough, but also what we have to remember is no one gives a shit anymore. No one gives a shit.
No one gives a single shit.

Speaker 1 No, and I'm learning contouring finally. So I think I'm going to be fine.
Can't wait until I'm sitting across from Kim Kardashian.

Speaker 1 What a joy. Okay, thanks everybody for listening.
Back then, now.

Speaker 1 Were you there? Are you here now? Oh my God, that's so nice of you. Thank you.
You must be so patient. Stay sexy.
And don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Elvis, do you want a cookie?

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Goodbye.

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