Episode 5 - Are You Hiding Him?

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While supplies last, terms and conditions apply. The TikToks appeared on a Wednesday in late May.

One of them began with the words,

This is my friend Daisy.

Maybe you can already picture it.

The carnival ride, the neon colors, the high school graduation photo,

and then the cut to photos of Victor. Each of the TikToks had slightly different music and different photos and videos, but all of them told the same story.
Daisy's life mattered, and the person who took it was still running free. An Instagram post was published the same day, on a new account called Justice for Daisy.
This post contained a slideshow of photos of Victor. A lot of them were taken from his own Instagram.
In one of them, he wore a striped beanie. In another, a bowler hat.
Each of the photos showed off some identifying feature. Gaged ears, or a tattoo of what looked like big rats crawling up his rib cage.
The text on the post was in all capital letters. If seen, please contact us.
Wendy, Daisy's former neighbor, she saw this post while she was scrolling through her Instagram feed one night. And then I started seeing the viral video that went on TikTok.
And I was like, what? Like, it was him? I was like, oh my god. Wendy knew who Victor was.
She used to see him hanging around the apartment complex with Daisy. It was shocking.
It was very shocking because, like I said, we didn't know what was going on in the beginning. And then after that, well, at least I took that out of my head, that it was dangerous that we had to be watching our backs for somebody killing women or raping them out there and stuff.

But I was just mad at the fact that this kid did something like that and he was thinking that he was going to be able to get away with it.

It's like, how do you think you're going to get away with something like this?

Like you killed somebody.

Like you didn't just hurt her.

That was like probably he got tired of hurting her where, you know, till now that he killed somebody. Like, you didn't just hurt her.
That was like, probably he got tired of hurting her, where, you know, till now that he killed her. That's what I was thinking.
I was thinking a lot of things, but... She desperately wanted to see Victor held accountable for Daisy's murder.
And so she used the tools at her disposal. She went to Instagram and shared the posts.
On TikTok, she reposted and reposted and reposted. And I would go back and see all the videos because they would always come up on the For You page.
The For You page. It's the homepage that shows this never-ending scroll of TikToks.
From people who you may or may not follow. They're all served up by this super secretive algorithm to fit each user's individual interests.
And these TikToks must have showed up on a lot of people's for you pages. Because there were comments from people shouting out their locations.
People as far away as Texas and Washington and even Canada. They commented as proof of how far the TikTok had spread.
And no one knows exactly how the TikTok algorithm works, but there's this popular thinking around it, which is that the more comments a TikTok gets, the more often it'll appear on For You pages. So people kind of just kept commenting as a way to sort of show how much the TikTok had spread, but also to boost its visibility in other people's feeds.
And it became this thing where people shouted out their locations all over Southern California. Southgate, Huntington Park, South Central, Long Beach, Riverside, San Diego.
It was like this neighborhood watch assembling on the internet in real time. There were comments from people who lived in Daisy's neighborhood and people who were appalled that they hadn't heard about Daisy's murder until that very moment, including people who actually knew Daisy, like Lolly, her friend from middle school.
So I didn't find out about her death until I saw it on TikTok. And I was just, like, shocked.
I was like, nah, like, it's a lie, you know, it's a lie. And I just got like the chills and I was like, no, it's a lie.
When Lolly got over her shock, she was horrified. You know, she was a good person.
She didn't deserve it. I know it broke me and it broke a lot of people.
And just like this case deserves a lot of awareness. So many other ones do as well, you know, like so many things happen every day that people don't even find out yeah and I feel like TikTok helps with that you know like one person can post a little clip that they saw and then it'll go viral so I feel like in a sense TikTok helps more than the like news outlets and stuff like that like we find out so much quicker through TikTok than anything else.
Lolly's in her early 20s. And like a lot of people in her age group that I reached out to for the story, she was just trustful of the media.
You know, sometimes they lie. Sometimes they leave things out.
Sometimes they don't even cover what's going on. So I feel like I rely more on TikTok to see what's going on.
Like what's going on around the world. Yeah.
Is there something that made you not trust the news or just saying that you felt like the stories you wanted to see were it represented? I feel like just because they don't cover them enough. You know, they don't always cover them.
Like I I could hear about, like, a person getting shot.

You just say here in Hudson Park, and the news won't cover it.

And I would just find out because someone posted, oh, this happened, or on TikTok, you know?

So I feel like the news doesn't cover everything.

It only covers whatever goes viral.

Whatever. I found Lali's view disheartening.

But I get it.

I mean, in the instance of Daisy's murder, Lali was right.

The next one. I found Lolly's view disheartening, but I get it.

I mean, in the instance of Daisy's murder, Lolly was right. The news only covered it once it had gone viral.
Prior to that, the only article about the murder, it didn't even mention Daisy by name. It only referred to her as a Jane Doe.
but once people learned Daisy's story, once they found out that she had a name and a life and friends and family who cared so deeply about her, they felt compelled to join the search party to help find her murderer. But vigilante justice can be a tricky thing because once you spot the culprit or, you know, the person that you believe is the culprit, what do you do next? Do you call the cops? Do you alert the media? I mean, do you rely on these same institutions that have previously failed you? Or do you roll up your sleeves and deal with it yourself? Does violence justify more violence?

What is the right way to deliver justice in the age of TikTok?

I'm Jen Swan.

From London Audio, iHeartRadio, and executive producer Paris Hilton,

this is My Friend Daisy.

Episode 5.

Are you hiding him? It was a Sunday afternoon in early June of 2021. And Valerie Arellano was panicking.
She was standing on the Metro light rail train platform when she spotted a guy with a skateboard in his hand. Valerie did a double take.
He looked a lot like Victor. I saw half of his face.
It looked like him. Like I saw like his eyebrows and his eyes because I feel like he has very unique features in that sense.
And I did make eye contact with him and it freaked me the hell out. I feel like it was him.
You might remember Valerie. She grew up in Huntington Park.
She knew Daisy back in high school. She never met Victor, but she'd been seeing photos of him all over Instagram and Facebook and TikTok.
The posts had been circulating for a little less than two weeks. And because of them, Valerie had a pretty good sense of what Victor looked like.
He has like deep set eyes, you know, like thick eyebrows. I've seen a lot of people compare him to Richard Ramirez and I'm like, that's a good description.
Yeah, especially when he had the long hair. Richard Ramirez, the so-called night stalker.
He was notorious for breaking into homes and assaulting and murdering women in LA in the mid-1980s. When the police finally identified him and shared his mugshot with the public, it sent the whole city on a manhunt.
Residents caught him attempting a carjacking just a day later. They beat him up so badly that when the police came and arrested him, he reportedly shouted, I'm lucky the cops caught me.
But this was a much different situation. The police hadn't released a photo of Victor, but Valerie had little doubt that it was him.
I think I just heard through my friends, like, for sure, it was the boyfriend because they said something about him being the last person that saw her at night, at time, I believe. So it was just already established, like, it's him.
And why is he not being found, you know? Right. Like, if he's innocent, why is he not present, you know? And that's usually how it is with women that are unfortunately killed.
They usually should be looking at the boyfriend or family members first. Valerie's right.
Some reports have found that more than half of all women killed in the United States were murdered by a current or former male intimate partner. That percentage goes up when the victim is a young woman of color.
Valerie knew these statistics intuitively. And like a lot of people who had been following this case, she had been frustrated by the seeming lack of progress made by detectives and the lack of news coverage by the media.
I mean, all she knew about it was what she'd been seeing on her social media feeds. I heard on Instagram girls saying that supposedly they had seen him and supposedly that he was trying to approach other girls on the station.
I don't know if that's true. I never heard like someone say like, oh yeah, he approached me.
I just heard people mentioning that. Yeah.
And that's what made me feel like, oh crap, it is him because he's taking, he's being seen on the blue line by other girls. And they're probably like, you know, scared and alone to like, you know, want to call the cops or something like that.
Valerie was also scared. Or as her friend Chantel Batrace put it, Valerie was freaking out.
And at first, Chantel had no idea why. I think when you saw him, I was looking another way.
I was looking like, you know, just because I'm like that. I have ADHD, dude.
Like I'd be looking and staring off. So when you turned to me, you're like, oh, I think, I think you told me, oh, I think that's Victor.
And I was just kind of like, what? I did see somebody like slight, like kind of with the, with the, like the figure of him kind of like leaving. But that was it.
I didn't actually see what you saw. You saw him pass by you and he went down wherever he went.
But I remember you, yeah, you were like very frazzled, you know, and obviously I understood that. Valerie desperately wanted Victor to get caught.
But she didn't want to call 911. She remembered thinking, I'm not sure whether that's appropriate to call the cops on someone who I can't even see their face entirely.
Valerie, like a lot of people I spoke with in Daisy's community, had not had the most pleasant interactions with law enforcement. She told me about a time early on in the pandemic when she was in a car with her aunt and her aunt's boyfriend.
A cop pulled them over and insisted that their car was registered as stolen. Eventually, according to Valerie, the cop told them the real reason he pulled them over was because he was looking for Valerie's uncle.
The car had been registered to a house where he lived at one point. And he did not like that I was telling him, like, how can this car be stolen? Like, he was lying.
And I did not, like, that was a bad experience. And we all felt, like, on edge.
And also he kept, like, touching his gun, too. And we're like, what the hell? And it was a Latino car, but it's like, dude, I don't care if don't care if they're like Asian.
Okay, so what Valerie is describing, it's known as a pretextual stop. It's basically when a cop pulls you over for something minor in order to ask you questions about a much larger, unrelated potential offense.
It was such a widespread practice that California actually passed a law about a year ago banning it. So now when police pull you over, at least in California, they have to tell you exactly why they're doing so.
All to say, when Valerie saw this skateboarder who looked like Victor, she did not immediately call the police. Instead, she sent a Facebook message to her best friend, the friend who used to live with Daisy and her family.
I wrote, I was by the blue line on Florence and Graham, and I saw someone that looked like him, meaning Victor. Does he skate? I'm going to call the detective number.
And then she said, yes, he does. And I wrote, I'm calling right now.
Valerie showed me the messages she sent to her best friend that day. They were dated June 6th, 2021.
I called the detective. It left me on voicemail.
This is Ray Lugo. Please leave a message.
Valerie found his cell phone number plastered all over the social media posts that Daisy's friends and family had made. And this number, right there on the flyers, it seemed a lot more accessible, more appropriate than simply calling 911.
I left him a recording of what I saw. He quickly left on skateboard, and I put he was wearing all black, a black beanie.
And then I made a typo here. I put in a black ski mask, but I did not mean that.
I meant a black bandana. So I had corrected that.
Over his face. And then I put, he left so quickly, but I saw half of his face and I looked at him.
And then I put maybe 5'6", 5'7", in regards to his height. And then I just reiterated, again, it's on Florence and Graham.
but he was covering his hair and half of his face. And then he said he left quickly.
Yeah. And, oh, and she was asking me if he had, if I could identify him by his, his earlobes.
So she told me, did you see his ears by any chance? And I said, no, the beanie was covering it. He had like a beanie and then a hoodie and then he had a black bandana.
So that looks suspicious to me because it's like, dude, it's hot as hell. And we're like in an outside area.
Why are you concealing yourself that much? Lugo called Valerie back. She told him what she'd seen.
Her heart was pounding, her adrenaline pumping. It was hard to get words out.
I think I was just so nervous. I said ski mask because it was scary that it was potentially Victor.
And he did tell me like, oh, we'll try to send cops to the area. And did you stay? Did you see cops end up showing up? No.
Her and I, I don't even remember where. We went to downtown LA fora for sure yeah but i remember how you were very obviously very upset very frazzled and you were shaking quite a bit and yeah obviously it's a very traumatic thing to see possibly i mean obviously we don't know right for sure but possibly seeing somebody who killed this poor young girl like you know and you know when you when you when you experience something like that it's kind of like, it's jarring.
Because, like, what if it was him? And he's just going about his day. It was really, it was a really emotional, intense day.
A few weeks later, a different woman, also named Valerie, was having an emotionally intense day of her own. She took to Facebook to let out some rage.
She wrote in a public comment that she'd been hearing all kinds of rumors about where Victor was hiding. He'd been catching the blue line and sneaking around the LA riverbed, she wrote.
And now she wanted to go hunt him down. We have to lay low to get him, she wrote.
We need rope and a bat, because he won't go down without a fight.

When I stumbled upon these comments posted in June of 2021,

I was really taken aback by Valerie's aggression.

This, like, take-no-prisoners attitude she had.

It made me think about how so many people were terrified of running into Victor.

And yet, here she was, seeking him out. I immediately

wanted to know, who was this woman? Why was she acting like this, you know, vigilante superhero? And how did she become so invested in catching a murder suspect? Ready to prioritize yourself? Your skin is a great place to start.

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Oh hi, don't mind me That's DimeBeautyCO.com slash the great paypal checkout slash terms participating merchants only must use paypal checkout online coverage of up to 100 in eligible purchases per card on a sweltering summer day i stood in the parking lot of a mobile home community near compton and when when I spotted someone who looked like Valerie Panato's Facebook photo, I flagged her down. She was short with square black glasses.
And she had a haircut that Daisy once had, a black bob with blonde bangs. Hey, I'm Jen.
It's finally nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too.
We walked across the blacktop and made small talk. It's hot today, huh?

It's so hot, I know.

Once we got to her place, she led me to a small wooden table in her living room.

I don't know how to close this.

I feel like, do you want this open?

Eventually, we got to talking about Daisy.

Okay, yeah.

So, and then tell me how you first heard that Daisy had been murdered.

Um, yeah, I first heard about it basically when it was being spread on on Facebook you know and I think I was in a um yeah I think I was in like a punk group that like you know you share like flyers of shows and stuff and usually someone who does get exposed for violent behavior, it's like we post it like, hey, watch out for this person. And yeah, his story and her story ended up being posted in that group.
Valerie remembered looking at the photos and thinking that Daisy looked familiar. She was pretty sure she'd seen her around, maybe at a punk show.

It seemed possible.

They lived close to each other,

and they seemed interested in the same kinds of music.

To Valerie, Daisy's story felt personal.

I started investing my time to, you know,

get her justice, basically.

What did that look like for you?

I feel like for me it was, you know,

going out there and trying to see where he was at, you know, look for him, asking around like, hey, have you seen this dude hanging around? Or like, are you hiding him? Like, let me find out, you know? You actually went to people's houses and said, are you harboring this person, Victor? Well, it was more like I would ask other punks like, hey, like, have you seen Victor? Like, are you hiding him? You know? And what did people say? They would just, you know, they'd be like, no, like, I haven't seen him. But Valerie wouldn't take no for an answer.
She was convinced that Victor had to be somewhere hiding. And if other people weren't going to rat him out, she'd find him herself.
Definitely, yeah, I would go look for Victor. Like, I actually, you know, I would be like, yeah, is he hanging around Long Beach or in the trails, you know? Really? Mm-hmm.
So were you just in your car kind of, like, scouting on the sidewalk? Oh, yeah. I would tell other people, too, like, hey hey you want to meet up and look for him I'd be so down I feel like street justice works better than the actual system so yeah I would I was keeping an eye out on the street for for him because you know like I don't know that's like really scary to have someone that does does something so fucked up to someone else you know I couldn't allow that not in my neighborhood what was sort of going through your head like had you thought through what you would do if you actually saw him yeah I was already thinking I was like I'm gonna beat the shit out of this guy will call call the cops and be like he's over here but yeah no i was i was super angry i was just mad i was like you know like how could you do something like that to her like she didn't deserve it you know i felt like yeah i wanted to get justice for her like just, just beat his ass, make him feel pain.
There it was. That anger, that desire for revenge that I'd read in Valerie's Facebook comment.
I was just as surprised by it in person as I was when I read it online. Surprised, by the way, that, I don't know, Valerie was willing to risk her own safety to take action against what she saw as an injustice.
Not just in this instance, but in a bunch of others she told me about. Like, she told me about this time that she hunted down and confronted a friend's boyfriend after she heard that he'd been abusive to her.
And then there was this other time. She climbed a ladder at a punk show and jumped off it to attack a guy she'd seen hitting girls in the pit.
Seriously. I jumped off the ladder so fucking quick and I started punching him.
Oh my God, that's like a wrestling move. Wow.
Yeah, I jumped off. He didn't even really notice, you know, because I was so short.
And that's why I kind of have a scar on my eyelid. I think one of my eyelids has, like, permanently scarred.
Valerie showed me the spot on her eyelid where she said she got punched. And yeah, after that, a lot of girls, they would see me around at shows and they'd be like, yeah, I'm still glad that you did that.

They're like, you're fucking crazy.

They would say the same thing you did, like, oh, you're so tough.

And I was like, I couldn't just sit by and just watch that shit.

Tough felt like an understatement.

I wanted to know what was behind it. So I asked her, How did you become so fearless? I think I became fearless because, you know, of the type of environment I grew up.
And because I went to military school, so. Military school.
The kind that teenagers get sent to when their parents think they need to be straightened out. There are drill sergeants, physical training, the whole nine yards.
It was so intense, Valerie said, that she realized she could face anything after that. And then where did you get your sense of, like, justice? Like, it seems like you have a strong sense of, like, the community has this power that the police don't have.
Like, where did that come think for me it came from you know uh living in domestic violence so I grew up yeah I grew up in a broken home I guess you could say parents got divorced when I was nine and just yeah like you know my mom being a landlord too growing, growing up, we would have instances where, you know, the neighbors, they would fight. And then I would hear some of them beat on their girlfriends.
And as a child, you know, that mentally scars you sometimes. And I feel like, yeah, growing up, too, seeing women get beat, you know, like all kind of violence.
yeah it makes you want to it makes you want to caring and have justice for other women that go

through that. Especially because of what she saw some of her own family members go through.
I can honestly say like what one of my grandpas, glad I never met him. He, he tried to kill my other grandmas with a machete.
He left a scar on her forehead. So pretty much, yeah, it's a generational trauma thing.
Right. So that's why when I heard Daisy's story, I was like, I can also relate to that through my grandma's history.
Because they, you know, they have almost gotten killed. You know, I'm glad they were able to escape escape that but so yeah that's what that's why I tell people you don't you don't understand until you are in their shoes and when you are powerless when you don't have anywhere to go you don't have anyone to defend you that's what's gonna happen yeah so I hope people will realize that that that, yeah, like sometimes you're, you just, yeah, you just get put in a situation and, and your life just, just goes like that.
Yeah. Women are just going through that every day.
Women like Valerie. She told me that at one point in her life, she found herself in a relationship that had become violent.

And eventually she realized she needed to get out.

It was a hard decision to make.

I think it's hard because it's like you want to keep giving the person you love a chance.

And then, you know, it's like that unconditional love you have for someone but then it just kind of runs out or you can't take it anymore you know I finally decided to put my foot down and I said you know what I can't keep living like this like I don't want to go to jail and beat his ass back so yeah it was a hard decision I just you know planned it packed my shit and then I escaped to a domestic violence shelter how did you find it um well pretty much like I was already seeing a DV therapist and then I just had told her one day like hey I'm fed up can we like you know call some places and she did we called and pretty much yeah then they accepted me. You seem like so proactive like how did you have this knowledge to be like oh to even get a DV counselor I think is something that or therapist is something that I think a lot of women, or some women in that situation, maybe wouldn't know to do.
Like, how, yeah, how did you navigate that? Um, so this is the funny part. What Valerie proceeded to tell me was actually not that funny.
But I got the sense that she's someone who copes with difficult experiences through humor. She said that she never really wanted to enroll in therapy, but her caseworker knew she was struggling with housing insecurity because of domestic violence.
And in order to maintain her government benefits, she was told she had to sign up for it. And at first I didn't want to.
I was like, no, I don't need it. I can deal with my problems.
But then he really pushed me to get it. And that's when I started going.
I was like, all right. I needed it.
I was just being hard-headed. Like, you know, thinking that I can keep putting, like, I could deal with it myself.
And I still tell my caseworker thank you all the time. Like, I'll text him sometimes.
I'll be like, you're the, you know, you're the shit, basically. And he was like, oh, thank you.
You know, I'm glad that you actually listened to me this time. Valerie said that the experience of doing it, of going to therapy and getting out of a bad relationship, it taught her a lot.
It, like, shows you how strong you could be as a person, you know? Like it shows you like how much life tests you and see if you feel like make or break it type of shit. Pretty much like, and it just shows you like, yeah, how strong you are.
That is really what drew her to Daisy's story. It wasn't just that she was also in the punk scene and lived in the neighborhood.
It was that she knew what it was like to be hurt by someone she loved. That's kind of the reason why I wanted to get justice for Daisy.
Like, that was my whole point of looking for Victor and all that, because I saw something in myself that I saw in her. I guess you could say not only, like, personality, but just her, you know? Like, I was like, yeah, I can't let that shit slide.
Like, it really, like, touched the core in me. Yeah.
What was, when you say you saw something in her that you saw in yourself, was it sort of how she looked or also just, her situation her situation mostly you know like she got hurt and she you know unfortunately like she couldn't get her life back and you know i didn't get justice for some of the things that happened to me but i'm'm still alive, so I was like, you know what?

I'm going to get justice for her,

just as I wish somebody would get justice for me.

But as much as she looked, and as determined as she was,

Valerie never did find Victor.

Nobody seemed to know where he was hiding,

including the detectives.

But all of these social media posts, they were doing something. They were getting more eyes on the case, more community involvement.
They were building public pressure, the kind of pressure detectives couldn't ignore. Next time on My Friend Daisy.
They put out something on social media, and they put out my cell number, so I'd get calls in the middle of the night all the time. Hi, everyone.
This is Paris. Thanks for listening to My Friend Daisy.
If you or someone you love is experiencing abuse, you are not alone. Help is available 24-7.
Contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline for free confidential support. Call 800-799-7233.
Text START to 88788 or visit thehotline.org. Your safety matters.
Reach out today. My Friend Daisy is a production of London Audio with support from Sony Music Entertainment.
It's reported, written, and executive produced by me, Jen Swan. I'm also your host.
Our executive producers for London Audio are Paris Hilton, Bruce Gersh, Bruce Robertson, and Joanna Studebaker. Our executive producer for Sony Music Entertainment is Jonathan Hirsch.
Our associate producer is Zoe Kolkin. Production assistance and translations by Miguel Contreras.
Sound design, composing, and mixing by Hans Dale Shi. Our fact checker is Fendel Fulton.
Our head of production is Sammy Allison. And our production manager is Tamika Balance-Kolasny.
Special thanks to Steve Ackerman, Emily Rosick, and Jamie Myers at Sony, Ben Goldberg and Orly Greenberg at UTA, and Jen Ortiz at The Cut. And I wanted to let you know about the statistics that I cited in this episode.
They come from the CDC. They were published in July of 2017, and you can find them online under the title, Racial and Ethnic Differences in Homicides of Adult Women and the Role of Intimate Partner Violence.
And if you're interested in reading more about the link between intimate partner violence and homicide, there's another study that I read called Examining Intimate Partner Violence Related Fatalities. It was published in the Journal of Family Violence in January of 2023.

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