Episode 9 - After All This Chaos

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A heads up, the second half of this episode includes some descriptions of violence, including intimate partner violence.

Please listen with care.

It was a Wednesday in May.

Susie and her cousin Mimi were huddled on a bench in the hallway of the Compton Courthouse.

It was the first day of jury deliberations, and Susie was nervous.

She'd been there all morning, trying to pass the time, trying to distract herself.

She'd called up a cousin and Tijuana.

They sent each other funny voice memos.

Stupid stuff, she told me.

In a room nearby, the jury was weighing the evidence, discussing the testimonies they'd heard over nearly the last two weeks, deciding whether Victor had done the horrendous thing he'd been accused of.

First, on social media, and now in a court of law.

Around 11.40 a.m., Susie got a text message.

When she saw that it was from Leslie Hinshaw, the prosecutor, her heart began racing.

The message said, the jury has reached a verdict.

They had deliberated for less than three hours.

Susie opened her mouth to share the news, but she couldn't get the words out.

She told me that she felt like she was frozen.

She was having a panic attack.

She'd been getting them a lot since her daughter's murder, a little more than a year earlier, but never anything quite this bad, quite as debilitating as this one.

Right there in the hallway of the courthouse.

Her face turned pale.

Her cousin reminded her to breathe.

But all Susie wanted to do was scream, to run away.

And the feeling only got more intense when the jurors flooded out into the hallway.

The elevator doors opened and the hallway filled with more people.

There were newscasters and camera crews, like this one from ABC7.

A verdict has been reached against a man accused of killing his ex-girlfriend.

The suspect was captured after videos on social media helped lead to his arrest in Mexico.

Eyewitnesses reporters said that.

There was the judge and the bailiff and the clerk and a gaggle of sheriffs in uniform.

They all filed into the courtroom.

Susie felt like she could barely breathe.

She watched as one of the jurors handed the judge an envelope.

The clerk read a statement and all Susie could think was, get to the point, get to the point, get to the point.

Finally, she heard the words.

We the jury in the above entitled action find the defendant Victor Sosa guilty of the crime of the murder of Daisy De La O

Susie started crying and shaking when she heard it.

She squeezed her cousin Mimi's hand as hard as she could.

Relief washed over her.

She could feel the members of the jury looking at her.

and to her, it felt like they were looking at her with warmth, like they were proud of this decision they'd made.

Susie hugged Leslie, the prosecutor.

I have no words, she told her, but thank you.

You fought so seriously for my kid.

It was May 4th, 2022.

And to Susie, this date meant something.

She's a huge Star Wars fan.

And as a lot of Star Wars fans will probably tell you, May the 4th sounds a lot like like May the Force, you know, May the Force be with you.

But this day had taken on a much bigger meaning for Susie.

She told me, today is going to be a good day to remember.

Justice prevailed today.

Two days later, she went to the Redondo Beach Pier.

Looking out over the ocean, as the wind tossled her hair, She recorded a video message for the Justice for Daisy Instagram page.

I know a lot of you guys share this story on Facebook, Instagram, and everything.

There's no words.

Honestly, I have no words.

No

amount of time and money that I could do to repay you guys.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, gracias, gracias, gracias.

Susie was grateful, but she didn't really feel like celebrating.

Nothing could get back what she'd already lost.

Nothing could change what had already happened.

If anything, the verdict verdict only made her daughter's death feel more real, more final.

All she wanted to do after the trial ended was go home and watch television with her youngest son.

It's the little things you miss after all this chaos, she said.

But all this chaos wasn't over just yet.

I'm Jen Swan from London Audio, iHeartRadio, and executive producer Paris Hilton.

This is My Friend Daisy, episode 9, After All This Chaos.

Victor's sentencing hearing was held roughly five months after his trial ended.

It was October 12, 2022, and Daisy's friends and family were nervous all over again.

Nervous that After all this, after the TikToks and the Instagrams and the arrest and the courthouse protest and the testimonies and even the guilty verdict, Victor's sentence still wouldn't be quite harsh enough.

Everyone in the courtroom was fidgeting in their seats.

And then Susie got up and walked to the front of the room to speak.

Her voice grew shaky as she recounted the day she had to identify Daisy's body.

The day she said that no mother should have to through.

I hate everything that this parasite represents.

Everything.

The way he viciously murdered her and the way Huppy left her exposed to the world.

Like she was nothing.

I can't even imagine her last moments.

And a horrible thought is in my head every day.

I have to recognize my baby's body and tell my whole family that she was murdered.

To tell my mother, to tell my sons, to tell my whole family what this must

have done to my baby.

Nobody ever prepares you for that.

And nobody prepares you for every day after that.

I cry every single day.

A smell, a song,

anything reminds me of her.

My sons are diagnosed with depression, all consequences to actions of this monster.

Susie's speech wasn't just about how Daisy's murder affected her own family.

It was also about its impact on Victor's family.

To other trial, he showed no remorse.

and emotions to me or even his mother.

Both families were destroyed that day

because of him.

All I have

to keep my peace is that he remains behind bars for the rest of his pathetic life so he won't hurt anybody again.

No other mother, no other child, no other brothers, no other grandma.

Thank you for serving justice.

to my beautiful Daisy.

I will love her to the end of my days and I can't wait to see her again.

Thank you, Graham.

The room was quiet, and then the judge announced Victor's sentence.

As to count one of the jury's finding

with murder in the first degree, the sentence will be 25 years to life in prison.

It's a life sentence at maximum.

with parole eligibility after the first 25 years.

I wanted to know what the culmination of this case had felt like for Leslie Henshaw, the deputy district attorney.

She had won her case.

It had been, at least on paper, a victory.

But it didn't necessarily feel that way.

When I get guilty verdicts, I don't, it's not a celebration because in the end, there is somebody on the other side who has ruined his life.

And, you know, for me, it's, it's all about consequences and accountability.

That's what it's about.

But

yeah, so I mean, I was I was happy in the sense that

the jury got the right conclusion and I could provide Daisy's family with the closure that they really deserved.

Yeah, it seems like so much of it is about closure because like you said, it's so

it's it almost feels like there is no not to say there is no justice, but but but you know, it's not like anything will bring Daisy back.

Right.

Um

and it seems like that's something that you wrestle with too is just like what is the best possible outcome given the situation.

Yeah, I mean

there have been times where I've had cases

where I felt a lot of compassion for the defendants just in terms of like

why did you make these choices?

You know, it's kind of like, what did you, what did you go through in your life that led you to this point where you've made these choices that now you're going to be locked up for the rest of your life?

And that's kind of like,

there's sort of a bit of exasperation with that.

Like,

what happened?

What happened?

How could Victor have murdered Daisy with such brutality?

Where did that come from?

And how could he have shown no remorse at trial?

He was silent the whole time in court.

He didn't say anything at his sentencing hearing either.

So I tried to talk with his family to try to answer that question.

What happened?

I went to see his mother.

You might remember she declined to speak with me.

I also went to see his father.

His house was located on a dirt road, and it was surrounded by a chain-link fence and guarded by big, growling dogs.

And at one point, someone did come out, and it sounds like they were yelling the name of the dog

to try to tell them to like calm down.

And then I at one point saw the blinds kind of like

open a little bit.

It seemed like someone was peering out.

And so they knew we were there.

There's two cars outside the house.

So I know someone's home.

And then they clearly just didn't want to come out and talk to us.

I guess I will take that as a

no comment.

I left a letter in Victor's dad's mailbox.

I never heard back.

I even went to the house of another one of his relatives.

It was a place I'd heard that Victor sometimes stayed, you know, before he was arrested.

And again, this time I was greeted by the sound of a dog barking.

A woman's voice appeared from beyond the metal security door.

I couldn't see her face, but she spent about 20 minutes talking with me as we stood on either side of the doorframe.

She seemed wary of me, but at the same time, it almost seemed like she was eager to tell me things.

Like, more than once, she started sentences with, did you know?

Like, did you know that Victor had a tattoo of Daisy's face on his arm?

No, I didn't, I said.

Or, did you know that Victor's mother keeps a photo of Daisy in her living room?

No, I didn't.

It was obvious to me that she and Victor's mother both cared deeply about Daisy, that they were devastated by her murder and destroyed by the actions of the person who had done it.

This relative, I'm not using her name because she didn't want to be recorded and she wasn't mentioned in the court documents, she told me that she talked to Victor on the phone sometimes, that he'd found God and seemed to be doing well in prison.

She encouraged me to get in touch with him.

to let him tell his side of the story.

So, I did.

I wrote wrote him a letter.

I explained that I was making this show and that I had been talking to people who knew him and people who knew Daisy.

I told him that I wanted to try to understand how things ended up the way they did.

I told him that it would be a chance to say whatever he had not been able to say before, either in court or to the media.

And for me, It was a chance to get answers to some of the outstanding questions I had, the questions that detectives never got to ask him.

I figured this was all a formality, that there was no way that Victor would speak with me.

I was wrong.

The letter arrived in the mail last fall.

It came in a white envelope stamped by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.

In the left-hand corner, there was Victor's name and his prison ID number.

His return address was the R.J.

Donovan Correctional Facility in San Diego.

It's a sprawling compound wedged along the U.S.

border.

It's actually pretty close to where Victor had been picked up by a detective that 4th of July weekend in 2021.

It's home to other convicted murderers that you might have heard of, like Lyle and Eric Menendez and Tex Watson.

He's a former member of the Manson family.

Inside the envelope, there was a sheet of lined notebook paper.

The handwriting in pencil was neat and slanted to the left.

It read, I received your letter and I would like to do your podcast.

My heart raced a little when I read this.

Here was this person I had heard so many horrific things about.

I'd seen images of him all over social media.

I talked to people who had spent all of this time and effort trying to hunt him down.

And now he was writing me this letter by hand.

In the letter, he instructed me to download an app, which maybe sounds a little strange if you don't know anyone in prison, but nearly all incarcerated people in California and in more than two dozen other states have access to tablets.

And these tablets often have this messaging app installed.

It's run by a private company called Global Tellink.

They contract with jails and prisons all over the country.

More than a million and a half incarcerated people reportedly use it, mostly to send texts to people on the outside and to make video calls.

albeit really glitchy ones, but you know, calls nonetheless.

I added Victor as a contact on the app, and we set a time to talk.

This was last September, on the day before his 29th birthday.

I sat at my desk and I waited for his face to appear on my phone screen.

When it did, I realized he looked a lot different than the photos I'd seen of him, and even from how he'd looked in person in the courtroom in Compton.

He looked a lot older, like he'd put on some weight.

And he wasn't at all like detectives had described him.

Detective Lugo had called him non-verbal, but Victor had no problem carrying on a conversation with me, except that he'd apparently changed his mind because as we began talking, he said he wasn't sure whether he really did want to do this podcast after all.

I got the sense that maybe he just wanted to talk to me because he was bored or because he thought that it might help his chances of getting paroled.

His first parole hearing is tentatively scheduled for 2039.

At that point, he will have spent 17 years behind bars.

I called the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.

They told me that Victor had earned credits for good behavior and for taking classes, and that had made him eligible for parole sooner.

When I talked to Victor, it seemed to me like he was trying to maintain his innocence.

He had never admitted to the murder, and I got the sense that he wasn't about to.

that I wasn't going to get a genuine answer to any of my questions.

So we hung up, and that was that.

Six months later, just as I was about to turn in this episode, I got a message on the app.

Victor had changed his mind.

He said he wanted to do the interview.

I wasn't sure whether to take it seriously, but then I got a phone call.

This is Global Tell Link.

You have a prepaid call from Victor Fulfall,

an incarcerated individual at...

The R.J.

Donovan Correctional Facility, San Diego, California.

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This call and your telephone number will be monitored and recorded.

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Thank you for using Global Telelink.

When I got the call from Victor, I decided to get right into it.

I had no time or interest in small talk.

I started by asking about the skateboard attack.

The attack that Daisy's younger brother had witnessed.

The attack that resulted in her getting stitches.

I asked Victor what happened that day.

Yeah, I'm sure you heard about that.

I do remember what happened that day.

We

were getting an argument over.

I'll summarize what Victor said next.

He said they got in a fight, essentially, because of his jealousy.

He thought Daisy was texting somebody and he flipped out.

He says it got physical on both sides, but let's be real, that he was the one who ended up sending her to the hospital.

I didn't

hit her intentionally with the skateboard.

I was just trying to get away from her.

While she was grabbing me, I was trying to shake her loose.

And the way I was holding the skateboard, like,

hit her across the forehead.

But I didn't mean her, like, hit her directly.

Okay.

Yeah, it sounds like you hit her pretty hard.

I mean, I didn't I didn't I didn't walk I didn't like want to hit her like

because

I was just trying to escape from her grip.

Well, it sounds like you had you had hit her in the past as well, so that was a an ongoing thing.

Would you would you describ have described yourself?

It sounds like you were you were a little jealous or possessive.

Does that sound right?

I mean

she she she would talk to, she would have a lot of friends, like guy friends, and she would

link up to them.

You have 60 seconds remaining.

You want me to call you back?

Sure.

All right, I'll call you back right now.

Okay.

This automated warning happened a lot.

I guess you get used to it after a while.

That and then this other automated warning that kept reminding us that our call was being recorded and monitored by the state.

Thank you for using Global Town Link.

So can

you ask that question for more time, Group?

Yeah, what I was saying is it sounds like there was a history of violence.

It wasn't just that one time.

With the skateboard, it was a lot.

And it sounds like maybe you were a little bit jealous or possessive.

And I'm wondering if you would say that's accurate.

That's a good way to put it.

I admit I was jealous.

I would go through her phone and find things.

I was feeling depressed.

I was feeling jealous, insecure

throughout the whole relationship.

I felt like I wasn't good enough

and I asked to seek help.

So it sounds like you have regrets about that.

I do, I do, because

this is someone I really cared about that I thought

was

someone I could

count on and like

someone I could trust.

And I felt like this was the most important person in my life because

in my life

I didn't have any relationships with anybody, not even with my family, I felt alone.

So this is a person that filled that void and someone I could

look up to

as a partner.

And I felt love from her.

Every day I wake up, I feel regretful.

I feel

depressed,

sad that

I took someone's life, and

I wish

I could take it back and

not do things

that happened that night.

Again, I wish I would have seeked help.

I had dreams of like

saving her life, saving Daisy's life, instead of

you know, taking it.

And I wake up and I felt like like so depressed.

Like

I just wish I could have I could have been someone better to her.

And and why why did you kill her?

Can we take a step back for a second and like

I know you had wanted to ask me um

what we did that night.

Yeah.

So like

yeah um

so

can you maybe

get to that question in a bit?

Can you ask me another question for now?

Yeah, so it's my understanding that

that she broke things off with you just a few weeks before she was killed.

Is that correct?

Yes,

I remember she had

she told me she'd seen someone one night, and

I had said things to her through the phone that

she felt some type of way.

She didn't want to see me.

So

I begged her please like tell me work things out and I remember I wanted him to get back with her and she didn't want to so I was crying for her and I was

like having a mental breakdown like felt like like I was alone felt like like nothing was working out I didn't know what I was doing wrong

And I just asked her, like, can you please take me back?

Can you please take me back?

She didn't want me back.

and I didn't know how to accept that.

So she did call and break up a cleaning

before

called

before that happened.

Is that something that we can come back to?

Is what happened that night?

Yeah.

Okay, so it's it's my understanding that that night

you had texted her and said, I have something for you.

Is that right?

Yeah,

that's crazy.

How do you know that?

That's hella crazy.

I'll summarize what he said next, which is that he'd brought her some of his old t-shirts that she liked.

They had the thrasher logo on them, you know, the skateboarding magazine.

They stood there in that patch of dirt near the alley, and he and Daisy had a discussion about their breakup.

Long story short, he wanted to get back together.

She didn't.

And then, as it often did,

it became physical.

I was drunk,

I was in denial,

and

like feeling very depressed.

And I was crying to her, and I was bringing her, like, please take me back, please take me back.

And she was annoyed already.

Like, she was annoyed annoyed by me already by that time.

In Victor's version of events,

events which of course cannot be verified because only he lived to tell them,

Daisy took a swing at him

and he became overcome with rage.

The kind of rage that caused him to do something he says he will always regret.

I grabbed her, took her to the alley, and let her go.

ground

and

I turned around and I was gonna walk away I was like what did I do what did I do

and

I guess

I was

um

intoxicate

and

was a little pissed out, a little angry, and I came this knife right there on the gas,

the gas, um,

gas tank, and I picked it up.

When Victor says that he grabbed Daisy and she fell to the ground, what he says he means is that he choked her.

And as she tried to catch her breath, he says he considered turning away.

He should have turned away.

Instead, he spotted a knife.

A knife sitting on a gas tank.

I'm sorry, I don't, I don't,

I don't want to say it because

it

didn't feel right.

I still, I still, it's still like fresh to me.

I'm still hurt by it, like, by my action.

And I understand that

it wasn't.

It wasn't right to do that.

And I understand the pain that

not only that I feel, but like

the pain her mom kills,

her brothers tell, her family killed, her friends.

Everyone was affected by it.

And

it's just so hard to talk about.

I'm just gonna

stop right there.

Okay.

And what is your understanding of their pain?

You know, is it based on what you heard in the court or how do you understand it?

Well, at the court, I heard her mom talk,

talked about me, like

a girl

near her side, kind of like what she wanted to tell me before I got sent.

It's a little hard to hear Victor's audio here, but what he's saying is that he remembers Daisy's parents speaking about him in court.

These are the recordings that you heard earlier in this episode when Daisy's mother called him a parasite, a monster.

And

I understand that they were hurt

and held anger against me or

felt some type of way against me.

I just pray that

that they find

find

reassurance, like I pray that they

that they could forgive me.

Uh I'm very sorry for what happened.

This call and your telephone number will be monitored and recorded.

I wish I could take it back.

Um I just hope

that if if anyone hearing this podcast and is going through the same thing about

went through, if they just seek help, better themselves,

to know that harming someone is

is never the answer.

You're just harming everyone that's

that's around you.

Everyone everyone gets affected by it, not only

one person, or particularly you,

everyone gets affected by it.

Yeah.

It's not

right.

Nah, just

I'm forever sorry.

Ever since Victor had written me that letter, I had been bracing myself for the possibility that he was going to insist on his innocence.

So a part of me was relieved to hear him confess, to finally admit what Daisy's friends and family had known all along.

He had taken Daisy's life.

He murdered her because he said he felt alone, because he had no other other relationships, because he could not handle the rejection of a breakup.

All of this pain, all of this suffering, all of this tragedy, it all seemed to stem in some ways from insecurity, from jealousy.

So

what happened?

What happened was in some ways just as Susie had imagined.

It was both as simple and as devastating as what she told the judge at Victor's sentencing hearing.

He knew like Daisy outgrew him.

He knew like Daisy didn't want him anymore.

When I first interviewed Susie, even before the trial, she said, if I have to be 60, 70, 80 years old at the parole hearings, then I will do that.

I'll be there.

He's always going to see my face.

Always.

Next time, on the series finale of My Friend Daisy,

a search for answers about what happened in Mexico.

And an update on Jeffrey's case.

I know, I know.

I mean, yeah.

Damn, her poor kid.

I remember walking the kid into the courtroom.

Like, right?

Like,

the key with my kid.

Like, you know, hey, don't worry about it.

You'll be good.

That's messed up.

Hi, everyone.

This is Paris.

Thanks for listening to My Friend Daisy.

If you or someone you love is experiencing abuse, you are not alone.

Help is available 24-7.

Contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline for free confidential support.

Call 800-799-7233.

Text start to 88-788 or visit thehotline.org.

Your safety matters.

Reach out today.

My Friend Daisy is a production of London Audio with support from Sony Music Entertainment.

It's reported, written, and executive produced by me, Jen Swan.

I'm also your host.

Our executive producers for London Audio are Paris Hilton, Bruce Gersh, Bruce Robertson, and Joanna Studebaker.

Our executive producer for Sony Music Entertainment is Jonathan Hirsch.

Our associate producer is Zoe Culkin.

Production Assistants and Translations by Miguel Contreras.

Sound Design, Composing, and Mixing by Hans Dale Sheeh.

Tracy Lee fact-checked this episode.

Our head of production is Sammy Allison, and our production manager is Tamika Balance-Kolosny.

Special thanks to Steve Ackerman, Emily Rossick, and Jamie Myers at Sony, Ben Goldberg, and Orly Greenberg at UTA, and Jen Ortiz at The Cut.

This is an iHeart Podcast.