486: No Such Thing As Purplue

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Hi everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Fish, where we are joined by the wonderful Sophie Duka.

Now, if you don't know who Sophie Duca is, where have you been?

Certainly not watching season 13 of Taskmaster, that's for sure, which is the season that she won.

She is also one Mastermind.

She's a regular on our television on all of the panel shows, and she was absolutely brilliant on our show.

If you want to learn anything more about Sophie, the best place place to go is to Sophieduka.com.

That's S-O-P-H-I-E-D-U-K-E-R.

C-O-M.

And actually, she also has a comedy night known as Wacky Racists, which is coming to the Hackney Empire on the 26th of October.

That will be hosted by Sophie and will include Nish Kumar and all sorts of other guests who are yet to be announced.

That will be a brilliant night.

You should definitely get your tickets for that.

But like I said, any information on Sophie, the best place to go is to SophieDuca.com.

Very much hope you enjoy this week's show.

I won't bore you with adverts for upcoming live shows or for Clubfish.

You know where to go if you want to get involved with those.

For now, let's just say on with the podcast.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from the QI offices in Hoburn.

My name is Dan Schreiber.

I'm sitting here with James Harkin, Andrew Hunter Murray, and Sophie Duker.

And once again, we have gathered around the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days.

And in no particular order, here we go.

Starting with fact number one, that is Sophie.

Oh my god, my fact

is

during their mating season, male camels' stomachs actually shrink so that they can concentrate on chasing females.

That's incredible.

Brilliant.

Yeah.

So they need to stop less for food.

Or is it, what is it?

I think it's so that they look fit.

But also, yeah.

Really?

Is it like breathing in and you know, sticking your chest?

They have got three stomachs, haven't they?

So it will have a good effect if they suck in all three stomachs.

yeah, yeah.

Yeah,

coffee.

Sadly, I don't think they suck in their stomach.

I think they suck in their stomachs to be kind of more agile and literally chase women up.

Oh, wow, really.

I totally bought the first reason.

Thanks for clarifying.

So they can be faster because there is quite a disgusting display that camels do when they are...

Male camels do.

Sorry.

Female camels are angels.

Goddesses.

And males are disgusting, rat-like.

Toxic.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, talking about the toxic male camel.

Uh, toxic male camel have this thing that they do when, uh, also during their mating season, where they blow up their soft palate.

So, I don't know exactly how they do it.

I'm not a camel, but I'm very culturally aware.

And some people think that they've like thrown up their stomachs or like part of their mouths, but it's actually like they blow up their soft palate so that this huge bulbous pink glistening thing hangs out of their mouths, and it looks almost exactly like a pair of testicles.

It really does, it's so disgusting.

I saw a picture just this morning.

I thought of it that way, but yeah, it's not a good thing.

So, So can you say again testicles are disgusting?

Oh, yeah.

Yes, yeah.

Oh, I'm not happy.

There was a study recently about how attractive testicles are, and they showed a load of images of scrotums to women and asked them to rate how attractive they were.

And in the abstract at the start of it, it said, we were unable to say that any scrotums were attractive.

We were only allowed to say which was the least unattractive.

Were they all human testicles?

They were all human.

Sorry, yes.

I should say they were all human testicles.

Aren't some people getting theirs smoothened?

If you get some Botox in there.

You can have a smooth ball sack, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, you can do that.

I don't think any Botox scrow tie were part of this study.

Right, okay.

And also then it's so much harder for them to be expressive, which is a real shame.

So, no, that bag that they have, the one that you're talking about,

is it called the duller?

Yes.

Yeah, I didn't know how to pronounce it, so I'm glad you took the pool for that.

But the camel close, because the camel can close its nose to avoid, I think, sand in a desert storm and things like that.

And I think it closes its nose and then just breathes out into the bag.

You know, when you're kind of trying to make your nose pop, it's a bit like.

You're trying to equalize on the bag.

Yeah, exactly.

Thank God we don't do that.

When we try and pop our ears and try and ball sack comes out of our mouth.

No, but you're actually not meant to.

I didn't know this.

You're not meant to do that out of the water.

That's meant to be like a dive that someone told me often.

So maybe if you did it hard enough, you would.

Yeah, yeah.

Yodoula would flop out.

But

that sack that comes out, that is seen seen as quite a sexy thing towards the female camels.

And they drool foam at the same time.

It's like quite,

I know it's wrong because it's sort of saying, I find it disgusting, but obviously it's an animal thing.

But in this case, it's just disgusting.

I think it's fine, even these days, to say that something that an animal does is not attractive to you.

I think that is allowed.

But

I find everything else animals do really sexy.

They urinate on their own tails, don't they?

Hot.

See?

Yeah.

Is that for scent?

Yeah, to to lay down the scent, lay down the pheromones.

And then they flick it up like a little...

Flick it up, yeah.

I don't know if that's just because they're dicks, but like they sort of flick it up a little shower of it.

There's something else they do during mating season.

Oh, yeah.

Which is this is um oh, sorry, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, but they do, they must do, they must do, otherwise, how

so the this is a study done in Saudi Arabia or maybe the UAE, but this is deceitful behaviour by male camels during mating season.

So they wait for the cover of darkness and then males will lie down and they'll pretend to go to sleep, but they're not asleep.

They're just waiting for a female to

be lulled into a false sense of security.

And then the males pounce on them.

Yeah, it's not great.

No.

So I know anthropomorphism is also not the point.

But then the females respond by biting the males' knee joints if they're not interested, which can give them arthritis in the long run.

Oh.

Okay, so if you ever see an old camel with arthritis, it means in his younger days he was a sex pest.

Yeah, that's exactly what it means.

Yeah.

I saw a sex video the other day of camels having mating.

You saw a what, sorry?

I saw a video.

Like, yeah, like just...

Was that part of this research or just...

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, I would have got to it anyway eventually.

So this footage was because two camels, I think it was in Dubai Rabbid Abbey, just were doing it in the middle of the road.

So traffic was held up.

So everyone was filming it.

And it was effectively the female camel was on the ground.

ground and it was sit down don't they yeah and it was like doggy style um yeah and it was it was interesting because in my head, I hadn't pictured how camels would have sex.

Well, like almost all mammals, it's doggy style.

But the difference is that the females sit down, which they just take a seat, and then the male goes behind.

Do you know why camels have humps?

Sort of.

Yeah, I'd just

store energy and fat reserves.

Why do they need to start?

Do you mean like why there?

Or why do they need to stop?

Because

they go a long time without food.

Well, in actual fact, it's not because they evolved in the desert, it's because they evolved in the Arctic.

So camels evolved in really cold conditions and they evolved the humps and then eventually they migrated down into hotter areas.

And it turned out that they were brilliant for that condition as well.

And that's where they ended up.

Beautiful.

They're from the USA, aren't they?

Although the Americas are.

The Americas, yeah, originally, yeah.

And weren't they there used to be mega camels, like four meters high at the shoulder?

They used to to be gigantic camels roaming the earth yeah how long ago like at the time when everything was massive before there were humans in the americas i think right yes i think so certainly tens maybe hundreds of thousands of years i got another old camel fat i feel like they're very versatile because the earliest known camel apparently uh called prote protilopus lived in north america 40 to 50 million years ago and was the size of a rabbit oh oh

that's amazing the rabbits the size of at the time.

They were the size of my rabbits.

They were massive.

So they were really small and then went

really big and then went

really small.

Yeah.

Well, they sort of found a middle ground.

Yeah, they did.

They found a range.

That's very cool.

Do you want to hear a couple of camel proverbs?

Sure.

Oh, okay.

These are good.

These are from the Middle East.

Here's one.

He who steals an egg will steal a camel.

Is that what they have at the start of their DVDs?

You wouldn't steal an egg.

What does that mean?

I suck with proverbs.

What does that that mean?

It means if I was dishonest enough to do something small against you, then don't trust me because I'll do something even worse against you.

God.

Exactly, exactly.

Here's another one that's slightly harder to get.

The door is big enough for a camel to pass through.

Well, that's in the Bible.

No, that's about the rich man getting into heaven.

It's easier than a camel to get through the iron needle.

No, this is just the door is big enough for a camel to pass through.

It's big door.

Big old door.

That's right.

Which size camel are we talking about?

Is this like a rabbit flap?

Yeah.

Small, small.

It's a nice saying, actually.

It's.

Oh, oh, everyone's welcome.

It's actually the opposite of the house.

Oh, yeah.

It's feel free to leave.

You know, you're not interested.

The door is big enough for a camel to pass through.

There's nothing keeping you here.

Wow.

That's not a good phrase.

Did you see camels recently, Tophy?

I did see camels recently because I went to the desert.

Yeah.

And it turns out

they're all over the shop.

I was chilling, though not literally, because it was so hot and dry, with the Bedouin.

Yeah, and Bedouin people and other pastoralist people

are very, like, their camels are, they're a big deal.

They love their camels.

There's actually a, I want to say, like, a folkloric tradition of song called the Al-Huda, where as part of a journey, you sing to entertain primarily the camel.

So it's.

It's just that.

There's

a lot of Fergus back fatalogue talking about.

But yeah, I really like that.

I think Al Huda has been adopted onto UNESCO Intangible Heritage List.

Oh, cool.

That's cool.

That's really cool.

Did you sing it to the camels?

I didn't sing to the camels.

I sort of was like, I sort of looked at them respectfully, but did not ride.

Oh, you didn't ride?

I didn't ride a camel.

It's fun.

I've ridden a camel.

Oh, I have.

But are you supposed to these days?

Yeah.

Are you?

It's absolutely cool.

Is it cool to ride camels?

I think it's complete.

Okay, well, I mean, Sophie's been near a camel more recently than me, so there might be more recent data.

When I was doing it, it was absolutely fine.

Where did you do it?

Dubai.

Nice.

When I was tiny.

And the weird thing is, because they kneel down, they fold their legs so efficiently under themselves, and then you get on, and then they stand up.

But that means they have this mad they tilt back crazily as one set of legs gets up, and then they tilt back the other way as the other set of legs gets up, and then eventually you're flat.

But it's

so important for so much more than being ridden.

Yeah.

For so much more than a great ride.

I think like camel milk in Jordan, the mansaf, like a it's like a dish with camel milk, is one of the well, it was the national dish of Jordan.

And it's meant to have like so many different healing properties.

Like,

I did try mansaf.

Oh, yeah.

It was, it was good.

It was like a bit tart.

You're saying that, right, you didn't like it at all.

I loved it.

I loved it.

I just wanted to mix it in a lot.

I wouldn't want undiluted camel milk, but that's because I'm a baby raised on, raised on a cow, but now very much transitioned to Oat and Almond.

Here's the thing camels can do.

This is great.

They can move the two halves of their top lip left and right independently of each other.

Oh, okay.

How cool is that?

Oh, that's fun.

Because you can picture a camel's face.

It has that kind of, you know, gap in the middle at the top of their lip, and they can move them.

So, like how people do that really fun eyebrow thing where they raise one eyebrow.

They've got the lip equivalent.

Yeah, exactly.

That's so cool.

There must be a look in the camel world that they give when they're like...

You can signal that you're not really into it if you're kissing someone, but only using half your mouth.

I feel like

their inherent eroticism and also

like I think a lot of stuff about the physicality of camels is probably why they've not yet been given the Pixar treatment.

They're too earthy.

They're too bawdy.

They're too earthy.

They're too like, they're just really of

their sex pests.

They're sex pests.

But like even their,

one of the facts is that their urine has been used in like certain like traditions.

People drink their urine, use them as medicines.

There's not a whole lot of scientific evidence I found that proves that that is a good idea.

No.

It's like super concentrated.

God, Sophie Harden, you're meeting with Pixar Gray.

Oh my god.

No, you don't understand.

He drinks the urine and then

it's super concentrated.

That's the way it works.

And then he just sort of, yeah.

Yeah, so there's like there's a traditional thing of drinking cow urine in India, for instance, right?

But they do think that because camels, they don't have as much water in their body that it is more concentrated and whatever good stuff is in cow urine it's even better in camel urine that's the idea oh right do you think that's true do we does does what i said is true whether it's good for you i think perhaps it feels strong it feels like strong stuff yeah yeah i think not is that why the milk is so tart because it's full it's because they it's not very tart okay i don't want to i don't want to offend the camels of Jordan.

It was just a bit, it was different.

I actually think that goat milk is probably as weird, no offence,

as goat milk.

Because goat milk tastes a bit goaty, doesn't it, really?

Does it, can you get a bit of camel taste in it or not?

I think I've not done a comparative study.

It was sort of um malty.

Right.

Okay.

I mean, is all milk malty?

Is that the point of malt?

No.

It was maltier than milk.

Like maltine.

It's actually malty.

I just actually had my first ovalteen.

Bullshit.

You have ovaltine every night, Andy.

There's no doubt about it.

No, let me finish.

I just finished my first jar of Oval Teen in a while.

Really?

Yeah.

Your first jar of the year.

I hadn't had it for years and years and years.

And my wife said, I've never had it.

And I said, what you said to me, Jesse.

I said, bullshit.

I can't believe you've never had it.

So I rushed out.

I thought, what time of Jacobin is?

Went to your dealer.

I went to the all-night shop.

It's two in the morning.

I got a jar.

Came back.

Anyway,

for the last three weeks, I've been trying to push Oval teen on my wife, who actually doesn't like the taste of Ovaltine.

Yeah.

Anyway, I got a quick, just camel's quiz.

Well, this story isn't good like that.

Guess stuff.

I just wanted a sort of part one, part two to break it up.

It's so good.

Got a quick camel quiz.

Yes, brilliant.

Okay, so why should you not, if you're in the desert, step into camel dung?

Well, I mean, for the for you get some of your shoes?

Yeah, that's that is also a correct answer, even though that's not the one I have on my sheet.

Smells bad, bad vibes.

Bad vibes.

You might injure some of the smaller life forms which rely on it as a bio.

You know, dunk beetles and stag beetles, they use it there.

I was thinking perhaps similarly, but maybe it's like some poisonous animals live in it.

Yeah.

Who might bite your feet?

Lovely.

I thought it's so toxic that it would melt your foot off at home.

That's good.

Yeah, it would just go just.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, these are probably all correct.

Sophie's one a bit lesser, but maybe the rest of them.

This this is I mean, it's a stretch, my answer.

I'm just making a fun quiz here, but you don't want to do it because you might explode entirely.

Right.

And that is because during the Second World War, the German tanks, if they saw a camel dung, would roll over it.

It was seen as a sort of good luck charm.

The Allies heard about this, and so what they started doing was making camel dung landmines.

So they looked the facade of it on top, and so that would blow up.

So like we know that bombs still exist, you know, in the basements of, you know, we're always finding unexploded World War II bombs.

There's probably camel dung landmines still out there in the desert.

Waiting for it.

There you go.

I next have the urge to jump into a pile of shit at the desert.

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Okay, it is time for fact number two, and that is my fact.

My fact this week is that the first woman to ever direct a film was a guy.

I was recently sitting on a plane and we were about to do fact picking and I desperately needed like one killer fact and I was like, how am I going to find it?

Plane's about to take off.

And on the screen in front of me was the in-flight entertainment and there was a documentary called Alice Guy, the first female filmmaker.

And I thought, wow, that's that's really exciting.

A, I have no idea who this person is.

And B, it turns out that she's extraordinary.

Turns out that this is one of the most seminal filmmakers of our time.

The innovation that she created is something that means she should be held up there with like the Lumiere brothers, up there with the

Spielbergs, the Scorsese.

This is someone whose name should be a household name and no one virtually knows who she is.

Well, first of all, was she French?

She was French, yeah.

So would she pronounce it Guy?

Yeah, I think Alice Guy would probably be her name.

And she had a second surname, which was her husband's surname that she took on.

So it was Alice Guy

Blush.

Blanche?

Blanche, I think.

Blanche.

So hang on, what's the fact again in the light of these slides?

But she not only was the first female director, but she was the first female director for about a decade.

Like she just really owned the field.

It was a period where obviously men were just saying, you're not capable of doing this.

She's also acknowledged as possibly being one of the first two people to pioneer the idea of narrative filmmaking as well.

Up until this point, everything was just sort of showing a train pulling in the station or people walking out of a factory, where she gave it a story and she turned it into a narrative.

Um, so yeah, hugely important.

Very cool.

She um, she lived until she was 94, which was 1968, that she died.

And I think by that time, only about three of her films were still available.

She made a thousand or was involved in a thousand, you know, directing, producing, supervising.

Uh, and I think a lot more have been made available since she died, or they've been rediscovered.

We keep finding them, yeah, yeah.

It's amazing.

She was

when the Lumiers made the first ever film, this was in 1895.

She was in the room when that happened.

As in, there was a private showing, and her boss, who's a guy called Gourmand, was invited because they thought that Gourmand might want to buy the equipment and kind of sell it on to people.

And he was quite interested because he thought people would buy it so they could make videos of their children.

That's what he thought this new technology would be of motion pictures.

He was right.

So he did buy some of these cameras and then he allowed Alice Gee to use them because he thought it was just like a toy.

It was just like a, you know, he didn't really take it that seriously.

So he just let her do it.

And then suddenly she became the biggest, you know, the biggest deal in filmmaking.

Yeah, and her first movie, there's a few variations on the title, but one of the English translations is The Cabbage Fairy.

And it's basically a narrative about how babies are born through cabbage patches.

And we had an episode with Ben Hillon where we were trying to work out when did anyone think you were born

from a cabbage patch?

Oh my god, this goes all the way back.

And the cabbage patch kids is, yeah, and she's partly responsible for the cabbage patch.

That's amazing.

You look like you had cabbage patch kids.

No, no, they're scary and

I don't like them.

But I do love talking about France.

And the folklore is that boys are born from cabbages, but girls are born from roses.

Roses.

And I don't want to be so

to this day, that's how French people are born.

There are claims that she invented the music video, which I like.

I think a pretty early prototypical form of it, because she used a thing called chronophone in 1905, which is where you film the singer's lip-syncing, and then you'd play a pre-recorded track simultaneously with it.

Yeah.

But also, I mean, the list kind of goes on and on for what she innovated in the world of film.

So, we've got the first narrative movies.

We've got the first movies where gender roles were swapped and they showed men at home sewing and doing the housework and the women actually going off and being actually at you know big business jobs and so on, which wasn't that in the year 2000?

That was the I think the name of that film.

That's brilliant.

She did the first all-African American film.

No one had done that to that point.

That was 1912, A Fool and His Money.

Apparently, it was a bit sort of behind though in terms of the racial politics of the time.

But it was the first time African Americans were cast into films, entirely in a film.

So she did so many things that were just unbelievably forward-thinking.

Yeah.

And this is right in the beginning of filming the first Fast and Furious film.

Yeah, that's right.

Yep, yep, yep, yep.

With a young Vin Diesel.

It's pronounced Van.

On the Fool and His Money, it was another one of her works that was considered lost for ages, and then it was found in a flea market in Stockton, California.

Wow.

So she's left like little Easter eggs.

I mean, maybe not deliberately.

Right.

But she's got her figure into loads of cinematic pies.

I do like the sound of her masterpiece, The Life of Christ.

Yeah.

Which sounds good.

There's a huge, like, huge film, 35 minutes long, which at the time was an epic Lord of the Rings style.

So 35 minutes long.

Do you think people after 20 minutes were going, oh, for fuck's sake?

Oh, my God.

Glad those were exploding.

But that's the thing.

For a film that was 35 minutes long in total, and again, 1906, so incredibly early film days, it had 25 different sets for a 35-minute film.

Okay.

And 300 extras.

But 300 extras is, you know, if you're filming a scene where there's a big crowd.

Sure.

But at the time,

it was impressive stuff, I guess.

Yeah, it wasn't definitely.

They had the first ever pan shot, didn't they?

Really?

So she kind of panned across these 300 people.

People must have freaked out.

I know.

What am I doing?

Where am I doing?

Well, you know that thing about the train?

So I think we've mentioned this once before on this show, which is that one of the earliest films was, was it the Lumières?

Was it

a train arriving at some garret?

It was a French coastal town called La Ciota.

And it was one shot, it's 50 seconds.

And the urban legend is that people freaked out and ran to the back of the room because they were so perturbed at the train coming towards them.

And there aren't actually contemporary sources.

And also the train is coming in diagonally.

So it doesn't look like it's going to burst.

into the room or you know but I think I buy it actually yeah I'd say and I'm saying I buy it despite there being no evidence contemporarily that it actually happened but people react to films people shout at you know all people shout in a big way at the cinema yeah yeah well there's a there's a big um

there's a big trend going on at the moment on it's either Instagram or TikTok I've seen the video where you expect something to happen and the person filming it tricks you by throwing the object at the camera right and and i i i properly went whoa so you can produce that effect right so i i buy it as well yeah yeah i buy it three three

no i don't buy it

I think it's classic of, isn't it funny how these people in the past were more stupid than us that they would fall for this kind of thing?

Yeah.

Well, I also have no evidence.

But I think you are probably right.

I was reading about Florence Lawrence recently.

What's so funny about Florence Lawrence?

Nothing at all.

First ever movie star, maybe.

Really?

Yeah, so she was making very early films, but she insisted that her name be on the credits because in those days it would just be actors and you wouldn't say who was in it.

And she became quite well known and so she could insist that her name would be on there.

And she was, she was originally vaudeville.

She was known as Baby Flo, the child wonder whistler.

So she would go on stage with her mum and she would be an amazing at whistling.

Really?

Yeah.

And she also was one of the first people to own a car and she invented the indicator on a car and the stop stop-breaking lights on a car.

She child lights, okay?

Breaking lights.

She invented brakes.

And they were all still driving around.

Like, what are we going to do?

It was like speed.

It was like very, very slow.

And they're all going at 10 miles an hour, so they're fine.

Hers was slightly different.

So her indicator, it was like the shape of an arm.

And she would press a button and the arm would sort of wave to the side that she was going to go.

More fun.

Much more fun.

And then the stop sign would be like an arm coming out going, I'm going to stop.

I'm going to stop.

What at the back of the car?

That's so cool.

It's clever, isn't it?

But yeah, and she was like the first film star as well.

What a pivot in her career.

That's so cool.

The thing about her, Back to A Guy, is

that I love that she was so active in trying to scout for the locations that she would put herself into weird situations.

So she was almost like an immersive documentary maker at the same time.

She'd go to orphanages and she would integrate herself there and she would go to

pretend i'm not here guys daniel day lewis in his little red wig

yeah no sorry that's the wrong term but like she would go to opium parlours she would go to um okay she would go to prisons she would she was invited to watch legal theater

actually yeah it does sound just like a wild night actually um crazy night last night woke up in an orphanage

But yeah, that's so cool.

Yeah, and I quite like that she used to have a sign on her.

So kind of like in Ted Lasso where believe was up on the wall, she used to have a sign up on all of her sets which was be natural and the idea for actors and so on.

I mean another innovation of sort of like, you know, let's just make this look like a normal thing.

Oh, just so cool.

Yeah.

I think she's cool.

I've got a fact about people that she possibly might have inspired because like we talked about A Fool and His Money, maybe not the

not a film that would translate today, but had the first all-African-American cast.

So that was in 1912, and in 1919,

Oscar Michaud, who's like considered to be the first African-American filmmaker, he made his first film.

So that's a whole seven years beforehand.

Also, I think one of the first female African-American directors, Maria P.

Williams, worked on The Flames of Wrath.

But she, okay, so this is how she died.

I'm bringing it up because it's very mysterious.

Okay, so she produced and wrote in this film in the same year her husband died and she went on to marry another man.

And then she died in 1932.

This is Maria P.

Williams, after being called away from her home by a stranger who requested help for his ill brother and then was found shot to death on the side of a road several miles from her home.

Oh my god.

And the murder remains unsolved.

Ironically, the plot for Flames of Wrath concerns the investigation of a murder after a robbery.

Wow.

That is interesting.

How do you solve a problem like Maria P.

Williams?

Just one weird thing off the back of Maria P.

Williams.

Oh, yeah.

So the guy who invented the film camera, Louis LePrance,

French guy, moved to Leeds and created the film camera five years before anyone else did.

So he was pre-Lumier Brothers, he was pre-everybody basically.

He made a working film camera.

He made some films in Rounde Leeds and then he disappeared.

And we have no idea what happened to him.

He may have been bumped off.

There is a kind of lurid theory that Edison had him knocked off, which I don't think I believe.

But

he was first, first by years as well.

Louis LePrance.

Yeah.

In Leeds.

Yeah, yeah.

He's got such a sexy name, and then it's like.

Not that Leeds makes it less sexy, but it sort of changes the vibe.

Leeds is a very sexy place, isn't it?

Is it?

I went on a mini-walking tour of Leeds after our last show.

Woke up in an off lynch.

Is he the one who, there was one who kind of got on a train and then they never saw them again?

Is it that one?

I think it is him.

I think it's this guy.

Is it yourself?

I didn't write down how he went missing.

When you're on a film set, they call it a shoot.

Coincidence.

I thought a long time before saying that, and I think that's good.

It's good that I did.

There's no need for doubt that.

Can I give you a quick quiz before we move on?

There we go.

Raquel Welsh, the actor, has a world record.

She's done something 15 times that no one else has done 15 times.

Raquel Welsh, who just died.

Yeah.

Raquel Welsh of the fur bikini from 1 million years BC.

Yeah.

The very same.

She's done something 15 times.

Yeah.

Is it a film-related film?

It's a female film actor related thing.

She was the first

female film actor to

answer questions on her fur bikini 15 times.

I don't know.

The start of that sentence, you were on such a good run there, Sophie, and then it went wrong at the end.

I'm not familiar with Raquel Wells, so

15 times.

Did she play the same person 15 times?

No, she didn't.

She did the same action 15 times in different movies.

A gesture, a V-sign.

A V-sign.

Did she do like the clapperboard thing with it?

And like the sound of harvesting, like stop it.

Like a MGM Raw?

Did she do a sort of...

That was her.

No, that was a lion.

A gesture.

A tiger, sorry.

The chicken dance.

No.

She did the YMCN.

That's good.

I feel like we're going to be here a long time.

Did she change the spelling of her name 15 times?

No.

She held the world record for kicking a male character in the balls in a movie.

Wow.

With 15.

That is an incredible fact.

Do we know who's the kickie?

It was a different kiki each time.

Oh, wow.

So it's in a different movie.

She was almost like her catchphrase.

That's her signature movie.

It's got to be terrible when you're sort of going, oh, that's one exciting role.

Who's my co-lead?

Fuck the hell.

Okay, it is time for fact number three, and that is Andy.

My fact is that half of American men are confident they could safely land a plane if the pilot was incapacitated.

That's reassuring.

It is, isn't it?

As long as two American men are on your flight,

one of them will be fine to do it.

Yeah.

That's funny.

This is a survey that YouGov conducted.

They asked 20,000 adults, I think adults all in America, whether they would be quite confident, very confident, not confident, not at all confident, or they didn't know whether they would be able to land a plane.

And I think overall it was a third of people who said they could do it, and 46% of men,

20% of women.

So buck up.

You know.

And also they specified a couple of things.

They specified you get help from air air traffic control and things like that.

So you're not just

totally in the cockpit by yourself, because obviously that would be incredibly terrifying.

Yeah.

And young people also more confident than older people.

People between 18 and 44, again, nearly half of them think, yeah, I could do that.

Those over 45, less sure of themselves.

Yeah.

So let's do a little survey around here.

Sophie, do you think you could?

Do I think I could land a plane?

Land a plane.

You've got a headset on?

You've got a headset on.

No.

Okay.

Yeah, I'm getting into it.

I've got a headset on.

No, no, no, no, absolutely not.

They're all dead.

He's also.

No, in my scenario, they've just been knocked out.

They've just had some dodgy fish, right?

Exactly, yeah.

They're awake.

They're just a bit, they're feeling a bit queasy, so they decided to knock off shift.

Okay.

In my one, I look at the pilots, and one is Maria, the filmmaker, and the other is the leads man, LaPrance.

LePrance.

Yeah.

I think I could land a play.

Okay, okay.

That's good to hear.

Okay, good.

That wasn't a test where you're like, oh, no.

Oh, yeah.

Actually, the microphones leave.

The walls of this room disappear.

We're in a plane.

I think I could, but I would do it extremely reluctantly.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's what the passengers want to hear every time, isn't it?

I don't really want to, but we'll be landing in the next 15 minutes.

Yeah, one way or another.

That's exciting.

Okay, Andy?

I think I probably couldn't, actually.

Couldn't?

Couldn't.

I mean, I would give it my best shot, but I think that moment where the ground comes up really quite fast, where you're landing, and you're going very, very fast, going over 100 miles an hour, I think it would be very hard.

Yeah.

I'm not saying they would clap for me.

I'm just saying.

Dan?

I think technically I couldn't, but mentally I would say yes to trying it because I think this is the thing.

You need someone to

go.

Someone's got to try and do it.

And I think if I was put in that position, I would say, okay, yeah, I'll give it a go.

I'm going to have assistance.

Yeah, I can't, I don't think I can do it although my wife's a helicopter pilot and I think I've said on here before that she says that I'd have about a 50-50 chance of landing a helicopter okay okay having watched her do it so I know what she's doing

but having spoken to some commercial pilots because we talked about this on QI I don't think I would be able to do it now it is hard if you're in if you're in this situation we should say yeah the most important thing to do is find the headset yeah put it on and find the emergency frequency because they do monitor that and also if you're speaking to someone take your finger off the button when you finish speaking.

Because otherwise no one will hear what you can say.

But that was the funniest thing about

this whole survey is that when they talk to pilots about it, I think in your head, you think, yeah, I'll just open the door, put on the headset, it's all going to be fine.

They're like, you won't even get past the headset moment in trying to land this plane.

You won't even get past the door in most of the planets.

Yeah,

exactly.

They've obviously got very secure cockpits.

When I asked my wife about this, because like I say, she is a pilot, that she literally said exactly what they say on these things.

She was like, well, will I be able to tell where the headset is?

That's the first thing she said.

It's weird because you would think it would just be there, right?

You'd think it would just be there.

You know what it's like when you can't find your earphones and you're like you're busy and you're heading out.

Yeah.

They actually have tried this as well.

They've tried this

study.

New Zealand's University of Waikato asked 780 people if they could land a small plane quotes without dying or as well as a pilot could.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so this is really interesting.

Some of them got shown a four-minute video of pilots landing a plane, right?

But the video didn't show the pilot's hands.

So, actually, it was a useless video.

In terms of actually learning how to land a plane, totally useless, right?

But people who had seen the video were more confident in their abilities than people who hadn't seen the video.

It's called a rapid illusion.

You see someone doing something and you think, yeah, I, yeah, okay, I broadly understand how that works.

Yeah, yeah.

And actually, you don't.

But here's the other thing.

It's like, okay, you've got through this impenetrable door.

Well done.

Stage one done.

You've found the headphones.

You've somehow worked out the emergency frequency of 121.5.

We've worked out to take your finger off the button so that you could hear them.

Surely you're on your home stretch.

You know, you're coming in.

But then they make the point, you're talking to an air traffic controller.

He doesn't know how to land a plane.

They're just telling you that the space is free.

Yeah, come on down.

You're fine.

So there's been cases where in the past people have had to have guidance to be landed by an air controller and they've had to go, hang on, let me go find someone who knows how to land a plane and have to go and bring them and help them get guided down.

I really dislike that this is how a plane is landed.

I really would have thought by now it was basically completely automated.

There was no skill.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well the thing is they do have auto land.

So an airplane does have auto land but you need to program stuff into it.

So you need to program in how fast you're coming in, what direction you're coming in from and you still have to click when you want your flaps to come down, whatever that means.

And also when you want your landing gear to come down, whatever that I know what that means.

And they need to be done at exact moments and you need to know when that is.

So even though you have auto land, you still need to do stuff.

Yeah, and it's and then on top of that, even if you, if you're on a, let's say, a Boeing big airplane and we need a pilot to land this, you need to know what your plane is.

It's like going into a different kind of car.

You can't just like,

I think it's even more complicated than that.

What I mean is even I can get into a higher car and I'm fine.

I don't need to brag, but like I've...

I can go into the hire car and go, do you have a Fort Fiensta?

Because that's all I can drive.

That's all I'm qualified on.

No, I guess the point is that you need to, with a plane,

you absolutely need to know how to land a Boeing plane versus a biplane versus...

I think it's never happened with a big commercial passenger plane.

I don't think a situation's ever come up.

Because often, I mean, loads of flights have pilots who are flying as passengers.

They call them deadhead crew, and they just, you know.

But it has happened once or twice.

In 2009, there there was a pilot who was flying from Florida to Mississippi, and the pilot died.

And the passenger, Doug White, was on board with his family, family of four, and he had a private pilot certificate, although he wasn't familiar with the plane, but he did manage it because the air traffic control people they found a flight instructor who guided them down in that plane.

There you go, had to run off and get a flight in the street.

Pretty much, yeah.

But that was obviously that was a small plane of, you know, happened last year, 2022, yeah,

around Florida.

The pilot collapsed or something.

We don't know exactly what happened.

There was a guy in there with him.

It was a very small plane.

And he sat there on the controls, doesn't know what to do, rings traffic control.

And they say, well, where are you?

He's like, well, how the fuck should I know?

Yeah.

He's like, well, can you see the coast?

And he's like, yeah, we can see the coast.

And they said, okay, we'll fly either north or south.

Just follow the coast.

And then the air traffic controllers could look on their screen and they look for a plane that was following the coast in any direction.

And they managed to work out it was them.

And they managed to get them down.

You're looking so stressed Sophie.

It's really upsetting me.

Are you

an anxious flyer normally before we've done you all this stuff?

No I thought I could land the plane and I'm really

confident.

That's so funny.

I was once in a helicopter with my wife and when you're on the um on the radio you can hear what everyone else is doing and um we were just flying along wherever we were going and um there was a guy who was like

help, help, get me out of here, get me out of here, get me out of here.

Telling the air traffic control.

And apparently, what had happened was the red arrows were flying past him.

He was in a tiny little plane.

And he's like, there's red arrows on my left.

There's red arrows on my right.

What do I do?

What do I do?

Wow.

He's leading the red arrows at that moment.

Just release the smoke, like the others, just time it right.

Wave to the king.

I'm not really sure of plane etiquette generally.

When I was going to America, I didn't realise that you're not allowed to drink the alcohol that you buy duty-free on the plane.

Oh, okay, yeah.

But that is a fact.

No, they ask you not to, that is a fact.

So yeah,

I was like, oh, this is a great hat.

I'll buy it, we'll buy like a bottle of whiskey.

So I was sitting on a plane and like just pouring like doubles and triples for me and my friend, Laurie.

And the hostess walked past and was like, you're not allowed to do that.

You have to you're not allowed to drink that on the plane.

So we both just thought that she'd meant this like bottoms up.

So we were like so sorry.

And I was just like trying to drink the bottoms up.

I can't have that on here, so we're trying to get rid of it.

I had never been kicked off a flight though, but in May 2013, somebody was kicked off a flight for doing the most amazing thing, which was singing Whitney Houston's song, I Will Always Love You, repeatedly.

Like first rendition, okay, well, that's a bit annoying, but you know, fine.

Second, third rendition's funny.

Yeah.

It's quite funny.

Yeah, it was a.

And then decreasing return.

Was it Stuart Lee who did it?

It was Stuart Lee on a domestic service from Los Angeles to New York.

And it was diverted, so it didn't actually land where it was meant to land.

It can't be diverted because of this.

It was diverted to Kansas City so they could remove it.

To Houston.

Imagine that.

This reminds me of a song.

They landed at Motown in Detroit.

They were assisting.

Oh, wow.

But why was the passenger...

Who was the passenger?

I assumed she was mentally unwell.

Right.

I haven't.

Well, I mean, I assume that.

She might just have been a legend.

It's a fine line.

When she was led off in handcuffs, she was still singing.

So

can I tell you one more thing about overconfidence?

Yeah, which is what this is about.

So I just looked up other surveys of what people think they can do.

Yeah, right?

Brilliant.

So there was a survey about

what works of art people think they could replicate.

Oh, yeah.

Brilliant.

And it went from...

So Mondrian, is that

it's just lines and blocks of colours.

Malievich, I could do that.

Okay, perfect.

so one in three Americans think they could replicate Mondrian's composition in red blue and yellow which is quite yeah it's a bit more complicated but it's it's mostly sort of straight lines and blocks of colour um 23% think they could do van Gogh's self-portrait with a straw hat which is one of the wait a minute if you're doing a van gof self-portrait and you're replicating it do you draw van Gogh or draw yourself in a straw hat oh sorry that you draw van Gogh you're just replicating that work of art got it you don't have to cut off your own ear it's like it's fine

18% thought they they could replicate Vermeer's The Milkmaid, which is one of the great works by a Dutch master.

It's really, really, really beautiful.

Yeah.

And get this.

11% of Americans think they could probably or definitely replicate Michelangelo's David.

Wow.

Probably or definitely.

Probably.

I'll say probably.

I don't want to sue vain.

Do you have to do it exact or could you do it like...

I think you need to get it pretty dead on.

Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah.

That's amazing.

Half of British men between 16 and 24 think they could dodge a train.

Oh, I reckon I could dodge a train.

Yeah, but I mean, what qualifies as dodging a train?

Good point.

If you're trespassing on the tracks.

Well, the thing is about trains is they can only go where the tracks are.

So all you have to do is get off the tracks and you've dodged it.

Well,

you too, Dan and James, are part of the problem, right?

Of young men trespassing on railway tracks.

I know that is a problem, you know.

Thinking you can get off in time.

And actually, it's very confusing when you're on tax because all the train noise goes out to the side.

Yeah, yeah.

This is a weird thing.

It's harder to tell than you think when there's a train coming along.

So, Network Rail a while ago asked rapper Retsch32.

Oh, we've met you.

Here we met once on Sunday Brunch.

Sunday brunch.

Yeah.

It was a classic.

It was a classic booking pairing.

Yeah, I think it's Rets 32.

Retsch 3-2.

Yeah, that was a fellpar of me when you go RETH 32.

I call it Mr.

32.

Is it called RETH 3-2?

RETH 3-2, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Why is it 3-2 instead of 32?

It's that's after a football score.

There you go.

Because it looks like 32, doesn't it?

I actually don't know why it's 3-2.

Where's the 1?

I don't know.

Where's the 1?

Where's the 2?

The 1.

3-2.

3-2.

It's a countdown.

Retch 3-2.

Oh, right.

I see.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

3-2-1.

Here's a train.

These are the mysteries, Andy.

Why is it thicky and not thick?

Why is it woke-and and not weekend?

These are the problems I've podcasted.

What did Retsch 3-2 do?

They asked him to test what it's like being on the tracks when a train is coming in.

By putting him in a simulator.

And he said, yes, it is actually very quiet and confusing, and it's easy to be.

And he said he had great hearing,

but actually, it was confusing.

What a great team-up of Network Rail and Retsh 3.2.

That is incredible.

But they were trying to get to young men, basically, who were more likely to be trustworthy.

I knew how to pronounce his name.

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Okay, it is time for our final fact of the show, and that is James.

Okay, my fact this week is that the first person to use the phrase roast beef sandwich in English had a surname which is an anagram of the word steak.

So good.

It's a classic James fact, as in, I don't think anyone has ever come up with this fact before now.

This is new, right?

Yeah.

I can't imagine anyone have the time to do that.

But also, this is, you had a different fact, which we said, oh, we're not sure about.

So you came up with this.

I love James.

james always does this in desperation as well this was real desperation so my original fact was that john keats

spoiler alert the um the famous most romantic of the romantic poets claimed to be able to eat two dozen roast beef sandwiches in a single sitting, which he did say in one of his letters, but it's clear when Andy read it and pointed it out that actually he was saying metaphorically that he was so hungry I could eat two dozen sandwiches and perhaps he couldn't actually do it and we'd already researched roast beef sandwiches and Keats so I needed to find anything else about him and it turns out in the OED that he's the first reference of roast beef sandwich and his name is Nanak Steak and that's that's where my brain went because he's not very a steaky kind of poet no he's that's what I really liked about the original incorrect fact is he's he was quite waif-like wasn't he Keats and he was very sort of I don't want to say wishy-washy, but you know, Byron would say that for sure.

Yeah.

But yeah.

Big boy Byron.

Big boy Byron.

With his greatest burgers.

Yeah, competitive eating champ in North Underland.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's kind of, yeah, Keats has.

So for anyone who's not a fan of Keats, John Keats died aged, what, 25?

Yeah.

And died of tuberculosis consumption, which was a very poetic, seeming disease.

You know, it was associated with creative types.

And and wrote wrote everything he wrote, obviously, before the age of 25.

Basically, all Keats poems are early Keyes because there was no late Keats.

Yeah.

And still wrote a lot of really, actually really good stuff.

I was thinking, I was never a huge fan of Keats when I was studying because I did English.

But actually, I looked back and I thought, yeah, there are some real bangers here.

Yeah.

Actually, it's not early Keats because early Keats, he burnt up, didn't he?

His earliest poems.

Yeah, he just...

Did he?

Yeah, yeah, he just thought, I don't like these.

And so he just burnt those over a fire.

So actually, we don't have early Keats, we've got sort of mid-keats right yeah so I was weirdly drawn to Keats's diet as well um so I heard that he was voluntarily vegetarian oh

to like sort of cure himself of his love sickness for Fanny

his big love but also he got put on a lot of fad diets by his doctor who shall I say did not have his best interest

and prescribed him a diet of bread milk and anchovies because he thought that his tuberculosis was in his stomach yeah so it was hard because because when you read his writing, he seemed to really love his food and yet he just had to eat all of this really bland stuff.

He must have hated it.

Doctors at the time were just so bad.

As in, the doctor misdiagnosed his tuberculosis as, I think, stress.

Oh, yeah, no, annoying.

He said that mental exertion is an application.

So basically, he's a little nerd that thinks too much.

Yeah.

And they bled him way too much.

They took pints of his blood, which is

any of bleeding good?

I guess it might have helped some conditions, but I can't think of any which would have been helped.

But I mean, Lord Byron also was bled hugely, as in they took pints and pints of Byron's blood, and they made him very weak and they contributed to his death.

Yeah.

But he also, he did, you know, he was a bit fussy about his food.

There's a story, and this is right at the end of his days.

So he did die very young of tuberculosis.

And one of the ways that he tried to cure it was to get out of the UK and go to Rome and sort of try and soak up the sun.

And so he was staying there with his friend Joseph Severin, and they stayed at this house, and there was a landlady there who used to make them food every single day and he hated it, hated this food.

She used to make them spaghetti and he just absolutely hated it.

He's in Rome when they were.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so one day she comes in, hands them the spaghetti.

He takes the plate, keeps eye contact with her, walks over to the window, opens it up and while maintaining the eye contact, just spills the plate out and all its contents onto the ground to make his point rather than just saying, can we get something else?

Oh child.

Yeah.

And yeah.

And actually lots of the stories about him, they make him a bit more kind of, you know, physical and like he wasn't such a milquetoast after all.

Oh, he lost him.

He was fighting, didn't he?

Well, I was saying he trained as a surgeon, was the thing I didn't know about him.

He trained as a doctor, and you know, he would set broken bones.

And he was a dresser at Guy's Hospital, and he would assist with surgery.

One of his jobs was to remove amputated limbs from the field of surgery.

So it's quite a stressful and impressive job to have.

Yeah, I read one article asking if he might have been a grave robber.

Wow.

Because at the time, the surgery practice, practice, they would do it on dead bodies and you're allowed like maybe two dead bodies a year who were like executed criminals or something like that.

But you needed more.

And so they had these resurrectionists who would go around getting bodies out of graves and sell them to the surgeons.

But there was a couple of people called the Burrough Gang.

And the Burra Gang were famous for being body snatchers.

But apparently around that time that Keats was working there, they'd decided they would go on strike.

They wanted more money for their bodies and so they would stop giving the bodies and so the surgeons had to go out themselves and steal bodies from graves and the suggestion might be that maybe Keats because he was there at the time that this was happening.

I hope it.

I mean, I love it.

How do you go on strike as a body snatcher as well?

Where do you stand?

Do you stand outside the hospital or the graveyard?

And

what do your signs say?

But there's like one of his famous poems, which is called Isabella.

It's about a woman who keeps the head of love, of her father, lover, one of the two

lover, in a pot of basil.

And he explains what it looks like, this you know, decapitated head.

And we think because he worked as a surgeon, he knew, you know, he knew what dead bodies were like.

So his poems were real.

Yeah, he lived a proper life.

Oh, here's one thing we don't know about Keys.

We don't know if he ever rode a bike.

Oh, okay.

Because he would have had the chance to.

Yeah, brilliant.

This was the...

The Velocipede was the very early...

It got called the dandy horse as well.

It's a bike with no pedals, basically.

So

you straddle it and you wheel it along the ground with your feet.

It's a very early starter bike for kids, except this was the most fashionable thing.

And we know that he wrote to his brother, George, who'd left for America in 1818, he wrote to his brother saying, the new thing today is a machine called the Velocipede.

It has a wheel carriage to ride cock horse on, sitting astride and pushing it along with the toes.

And it's very exciting.

So we know that he knew what they were, but we don't know if he ever had a go, because he doesn't say in the letter.

Did he ever use roller skates?

I don't think he did.

Because his name is an anagram of skate, so it's just

I think this is what it's like.

Yeah,

I feel like Keats always seemed that I did study English, but I don't remember having a great love for Keats, just because I think he was a bit more like, a bit like softer and gentler, which does tally with Ben Wischell playing him in the 2009 film Bright Star.

And Ben Wishel said that it was the highlight of his career so far.

Playing.

Yeah.

Really?

But that was pre-Paddington.

Who were your literary heroes when you did English?

Literary heroes.

I mean, I think what my English degree did sort of

kill any enjoyment or passion I had for the subject.

But out of the romantics, I liked Blake.

I liked how he did all his little etchings as well.

Who else did I like?

Were you a Byron fan?

Because

that's a bit of a dividing Jets and Charks thing.

Byron and Keats, you know, Beatle Stones.

Oh, is it really?

Well, Well, a little bit, a little bit.

As in Byron, is much more fun.

There are many more jokes in Byron.

It's just fun.

But also they had a rivalry during.

Well, Byron was a bit rude about Keats.

I don't know if Keats was ever rude back about Byron.

Probably couldn't think of anything.

But no, actually, he did run a lot of great stuff, Keats.

Obviously, he is one of the greats.

Interestingly, Byron, when he died,

so he died out in Greece.

In Greece, he was in, was it a lake or the ocean?

I can't remember.

It was the ocean, I think.

He he drowned was it no shelley drowned yeah byron died of fever sorry

he did swim across the bosphorus byron didn't he but he didn't drown i don't think no he died of fever sorry i've confused you um when part of identifying who shelley was when they found him was not only his clothes but he had a book of Keats's poetry in his pockets.

Oh, really?

Yeah, Shelley carried around the book.

So Percy Shelley was a vegetarian.

We talked about earlier how Keats ended up having to be a vegetarian.

But Percy Shelley was a vegetarian because, well it's quite forward-thinking I guess at the time so he thought that animals use too much land and around that time there was kind of a lot of Malthusian kind of the population is going to go through the roof everyone's going to starve and so he decided to become a vegetarian for that reason but the only thing he would be tempted by was to eat bacon and he just couldn't not eat bacon and there was a guy a friend of his called thomas jefferson hogg and Thomas Jefferson Hogg used to just whenever he saw him he used to just give him bits of bacon and say oh just have a bit of bacon, shelly.

That's so funny.

Because that is a really good reason for being vegetarian, but it is also, bacon is also the thing that a lot of vegetarians, or some of them, come across.

Vegetarian.

While we're on food, just back to Keats for a second.

He also loved jam.

He at least ate it.

So we don't know if he rode a bicycle, but we do know that he ate jam because

we're peaceable together.

Because?

Because he apologised for spilling some jam on a letter that he'd written.

And so he wrote, and he also invented new words as a result of this, or a new word as a result of this.

So he wrote, after spilling the jam, I have licked it, but it remains very purple.

I don't know whether to say purple or blue.

So wrote purple.

Oh.

Which may be an excellent name for a colour made up of those two.

Purple.

That's how you get to be one of those.

That's the flavour of early Keats.

His purple period.

I was going to ask if it was mulberry jam because in Keats house in Hampstead where he lived and fell in love with his neighbour, there is a mulberry tree, an ancient mulberry tree, which they think that people hypothesize he stood under and wrote Ode to a Nightingale.

But whether or not it was there when he was there,

it has been adopted into

the Queen, may she rest in peace, had a collection of ancient trees, less than a hundred ancient trees, and it's formed part of the Queen's canopy.

Wow.

What a collection just around the country of

just real old trees, hence like trees.

yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I've got a riddle for you.

Oh, yeah.

Okay, the most famous painting of Keats

is of him at Wentworth Place.

It shows him sitting and coming up with his most famous poems.

Yeah, I feel like I could knock one of them out.

No problem.

For sure.

Well, join the queue with a third of American men who.

So he's dead in the painting.

Oh, what?

Ooh.

Okay.

So.

What?

Wait, sorry, sorry.

Riddle me that.

So someone's painted him, right?

And when they painted him, his body was the thing they were painting.

So it was painted in 1834.

He died in 1821.

Oh, that's quite a long time afterwards.

Long time.

So, yeah.

So the riddle is: oh, is it something like,

is it...

There isn't a riddle in part of it.

That's the problem with the...

Well, none of you have come up with an answer, so I feel like it is still a riddle.

No, actually.

Did he like donate his skull to the theatre?

And so it's his skull that's depicted in the

night?

Is he painted as an angel?

That's another good answer, but no, no, no.

Seems like no one solved my riddle.

But what's the riddle?

How?

How is he dead?

How is he depicted so brilliantly?

13 years after.

Oh, he was a twin.

So they just used the twin to model.

His mother was the artist.

That's right.

And she said, I cannot paint this.

It's my son.

It's my son.

Okay.

No.

I don't understand.

He was.

Shall I solve the riddle for you all?

He's dead in the painting because Halloween party.

That's a Halloween party painting.

Yeah, that's why.

And there's a plastic bat in the corner.

No, no, no.

Okay.

It's that after his death, a death mask was made of him.

Yeah.

And it was used as the model.

And after Keats died in Rome, they made a death mask of his face.

They also did his hand and his foot.

And there were only two of these death masks for a long time.

And one of them was kept by Joseph Seven, and one was sent to his publisher, which I feel is a weird.

I feel that is.

As in, if I, like, if I died,

and we have two masks, and they can go to any two people.

Exactly.

I'd want one to go to my editor.

But no, that's what was painted of him 13 years later.

And the frame of this painting,

this is quite romantic.

Capital Art has a lock of his hair in the frame of the painting.

So there's a little bit of Keats in that original picture.

That's amazing.

Good riddle.

Thank you.

Speaking of siblings of Keats.

Keats, his little sister was called Fanny, which is the same name as the woman that he was in love with.

Yeah.

What a creepy little boy.

Stop that thing.

You said that you can't marry someone with the same name as your sister.

You can't marry someone with the same name as your sibling.

Well, they didn't get married.

He just loved her

unrequitedly, I think.

They were engaged, but they never married.

And then he died very young.

I don't think it can be unrequited if they got engaged.

That's not unrequited.

You're absolutely right.

That was the definition of requirements.

That's what my now wife said to me.

She said, I will say yes, but just so you know, it's not requited.

Well, Fanny never took his ring off.

So Keats gave her a ring.

And for the rest of her life, even though she remarried, she always wore the ring that Keats gave her.

Which I think is a bit of a kick of the guts to her second husband.

I think that's because he's such a romantic poet.

No, actually, it's worse that he's one of the great romantic poets.

By the way, one of the best and most romantic poets ever loved me and gave me the ring.

There's a lot of pressure when you're writing a Valentine's card, isn't there?

It is.

Roses are red, valids are purple.

Okay, that's it.

That is all of our facts.

Thank you so much for listening.

If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we have said over the course of this podcast, we can be found on our Twitter accounts.

I'm on at Schreiberland, James, James Harkin, Andy, at Andrew Hunter M.

And Sophie at Sophie Duke Box.

Yep, or you can go to our group account, which is at no such thing, or you can also find us on Instagram now at no such thing as a fish.

You can also go to our website where you can find all of the previous episodes that we've done, as well as links to our upcoming live dates.

And Sophie, anything you want to mention before we go?

Anything upcoming?

I have a website because I am a child of modernity.

and it's www.sophyduca.com.

All my dates and stuff are on there.

Yep.

All live dates and so on.

So do go check that out.

And otherwise, we're going to be back again next week with another episode.

We'll see you then.

Goodbye.

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