Stop Chasing Emotionally Unavailable People (Listen To This To Attract a Long Term Relationship And Stop Wasting Your Time In The Wrong Ones) With Lisa Bilyeu

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Hey everyone, welcome back to OnPurpose.

I'm so grateful you're here.

Whether it's your first time or you've been on this journey with me for a while, this space is for you to listen, learn and grow.

If you're here, it means you're dedicated to making this year the best year of your life so far.

Now, today's episode is a little different and I'm so excited to share it with you.

Instead of me leading the conversation, I'm the one answering the questions.

This is a powerful discussion between me and Lisa Billieu, where she's interviewing me on some of the most important lessons I've learned about relationships.

I love this conversation I had with her and I felt I really wanted you to hear it.

Lisa is an absolute force.

She asked me really deep questions that made me really reflect.

And whether you've just been through a breakup, whether someone's taken advantage of you, whether you feel like someone's just led you on, this episode is for you.

Thank you so much for listening.

Let's dive in.

The number one health and wellness podcast.

Jay Shetty.

Jay Shetty.

The one, the only Jay Shetty.

So many women end up settling.

Now, not because we want to, but because we're scared.

We're scared of being alone.

We're scared of starting over.

We're scared that maybe this is good as we can get.

But that fear is actually then just keeping us stuck.

So how on earth do we start making choices based on our worth so we never settle for less than we deserve?

There's three reasons that we settle.

The first is we settle

because

the fear of being alone is greater than the pain of being with the wrong person.

We settle

because

the suffering we understand

feels safer than the happiness we haven't experienced yet.

We settle

because

a part of us believes that familiarity is truth.

And what I mean by that is when you've experienced mediocrity for long enough, you start to believe it's destiny.

You start to believe that's the life that's been paved forward for you.

But the deepest reason we settle,

and it's something that you alluded to,

is that we think there's someone better out there,

but we don't believe they exist for us.

And that's the most interesting part.

We think there's someone better out there, but we don't believe they exist for us.

And it's because we have such a limited, restricted view of ourselves.

I don't think it's that we have low self-esteem or poor self-esteem.

That's a part of it.

But the bigger part is we don't actually realize

what's possible for us, what's possible by us.

And that comes because we've been told to play small.

We've been told to shrink.

We've had people in our life, relationships, past X's, that have made us believe that if you play within the confines of these walls, that's all you're meant to be.

And so I think when I think about your question, the thing that comes to mind the most to me is

I want people to start by looking at their life.

as if they didn't have any of those scripts.

If you didn't have that script, if you haven't heard those lines, where would you start?

And in order to do this, Lisa, what's interesting is you actually have to disappear from your life.

Now, what I mean by that is you don't have to run away.

You don't have to quit your job.

You don't have to not hang out with your friends, but you almost need to sometimes stop talking.

I think the reason sometimes we feel we have too many opinions in our life is because we ask the wrong people the right questions.

Right?

We ask the right questions like, do you think this person's right for me?

Do you think I should be in this relationship?

Do you think this is the best I can do?

But we ask them to the wrong people.

And it's really interesting.

We ask other people questions, but we never ask ourselves those questions.

And we outsource and crowdsource these major decisions in our life.

And so what I mean by disappearing is we have to take a step back.

We have to shut our mouth.

We have to close off a little bit and go, am I asking the right question to the right person or am I asking the right question to the wrong person?

Okay, so break that down even more because it so hit me when you said we ask people's opinions and then we take that on.

so like let's just take families because I'm Greek Orthodox and obviously you're Indian so our family culture is very dominant if you will in dictating what we should do and how we should show up so are you saying for instance if we ask our parents hey what do you think of my partner they're gonna come from their perspective based on what they think that you need in your life yes when you ask someone a question we think their answer is a prediction of the future.

But actually, it's a projection of their values.

It's a projection of their insecurities.

It's a projection of what they believed was possible for them.

I'll give an example.

I remember a friend of mine was starting to date another girl that we knew and when he asked all our guy friends what they thought of this girl they all said she's a bit dominant.

She's a bit controlling.

And it was really interesting because I was watching this happen.

And he responded and said, I kind of like it when a woman's in charge.

He said, I really like it when a woman takes the the lead.

And he goes, she may take the lead emotionally, but I take the lead financially.

And so he goes, I'm not threatened by that.

I'm actually really comfortable about it.

But all of my other guy friends were really uncomfortable about that.

Now, does this make them wrong and him right?

No.

It's just showing that we all have a different skew.

We have a different priority.

We have a different take.

But all of the guys were like, no, she's the worst.

Like, I would never date her.

Like, don't go out with her.

And he's now happily married to her.

And they have a great relationship.

Now, if he would have listened to them, because he thought, wait a minute, there's seven people here that I trust and respect telling me that this woman's wrong for me, he would have made the wrong decision.

And so I think so many of us don't actually base our decisions on even our self-worth or our self-awareness or our self-knowledge.

We base it on other people's insecurities.

And if you're making big decisions, based on other people's little insecurities, you're setting yourself up for a big failure because you may move away from someone who's so close to being the right person for you.

Oh, God, that's so true.

Okay.

So if you assess this is their belief, this is their opinion, how do you then, do your words, disappear inwards so that you can start to listen to your own intuition?

And then what if that intuition is saying, I don't want you to be alone?

Because that's the second thing.

It's like there's one thing listening to external, there's another thing listening to your own insecurities.

Absolutely.

You're spot on.

And the reason why you want to to get to a point where you're only hearing your voice is one voice is easier to manage than 30 voices, right?

Like let's just be honest, most of us are surrounded by 30, 40, 50 opinions.

So yes, when you disappear, move away from all the opinions.

The way I recommend you do that is doing a 30-day opinions fast.

And if 30 days is too long, try a seven-day opinion fast.

So for seven days, Anytime you think about asking someone for their opinion, whether it's what should I wear, what should I I eat, what movie should I watch, what TV show should I watch, for the next seven days, you're not allowed to ask anyone.

So every time you have that inkling of, oh, let me just ask Lisa, what should I do?

No, no, no.

I'm going to ask myself first.

I'm going to ask myself and I'm going to have the courage to make the decision and go out there anyway.

So I'm going to resist that urge to try on the outfit, take a picture, send it to a group of friends, try on the other outfit.

No, no, no.

I'm just going to make a decision and I'm going to see what it feels like.

Let's start with really low-hanging fruit.

Let's not do it when we're going to like the biggest party of the year or whatever it is.

Do it when you're going out for movie night, picking a dinner, picking a TV show to watch.

Make it really simple.

Do it for the simple things.

When you start doing it for the simple things, what happens?

You start realizing there was no right outfit.

You start realizing there was no right pair of earrings.

All you realize is that you start trusting your own voice inside.

You start trusting your choice.

Or you start realizing when you could have learned a little bit, when you could have got something better, there was something that was editable.

And now you realize it's all doable.

It's not life or death.

So you've got to start with the small stuff.

And the reason, Lisa, I say start with the small stuff is because that voice, that inner voice that you and me have, has got so quiet.

It's got so weak.

That's what that inner child, that inner voice is like inside of us.

You can barely hear it.

So that's step one.

Step two, like you said, now you realize it's actually your voice.

You're sitting there on your own and your voice says, I hate being alone.

I hate being alone.

I hate being alone.

There's three things that are important when you hear the words, I hate being alone.

The first is, all the studies show that when we make a decision because we don't want to be alone, we pick the wrong person.

All the studies show we stay with the wrong person when we're scared of being alone.

And thirdly, we settle for less than we deserve.

We have to realize that the person you're going to pick when you're alone is almost guaranteed to be the wrong person.

You're going to accept behavior you never would.

You're going to settle for language you never would.

You're going to accept actions that you never would because that's where your decision is being made.

Now that's logic, but the voice I'm being alone is not logical.

The voice, I'm scared of being alone is emotional.

I think so many people today who are desperate and scared of being single don't realize that that pain of being single is far less than the pain of being in a relationship and wanting a divorce or a breakup.

When you're in that position, you can't get out of it.

It's a lot harder than the pain of, will I find someone?

If you've got the courage, and I really believe everyone gets to this point in their life, you have to sit with yourself and ask yourself, why?

Why am I scared of being alone?

Where did that come from?

Is it because everyone in my family always told me that marriage was the pinnacle of life?

Is it because all of my friends are getting engaged and proposed to?

Is it because I grew up in a big family and I like being surrounded by people?

Is it because I don't have someone to go to movies with or I don't have someone to go out to brunch with on the weekend?

What is it?

And then what you do is for each need that you think a partner is going to solve, you find another person in your life who can solve it.

So make a list, brunch, watching movies, going out, vulnerable talk, whatever it is that you think a partner is going to provide, go and find one friend that solves it.

And all of a sudden, your life starts to feel full.

All of a sudden, you're not alone anymore because you found friendship, you found connection.

Now you're in a position of peace.

I'll give you an example, actually, Lisa.

So I became Matts.com's relationship advisor a year ago.

And the goal was I wanted to create a platform where I could create my philosophy, but make it practical.

Anyway, the reason I say that is we did an event for 100 singles in LA just two, three weeks ago.

Everyone came with open minds.

It was really interesting.

But the reason I brought it up is I was talking to people about how we have two mindsets when it comes to dating and finding love.

One is we have a passive mindset.

Oh, it will happen when it happens.

Oh, you know, I'm not really looking for it.

It will just appear.

And secretly, deep down, we're really scared and insecure.

But we have this passive exterior.

Well, because if you're passive, you're not putting yourself out there, you don't feel rejected.

Exactly.

And then the second thing we have, I was telling this group, is that you have a pressure-filled mindset.

So the pressure is, oh my god, everyone's got engaged.

Oh my god, everyone's got married.

Oh my god, everyone's having kids.

Oh my god, everyone's dating.

Oh my god, everyone's on vacation.

So now it's like desperation.

How will being passive or feeling pressure ever,

ever attract love?

Being passive doesn't attract love.

Feeling pressure and desperation doesn't attract love.

The state that attracts love is peace.

Or at least it attracts a peaceful love, which is what I think we all truly want.

And so if you're passive, you'll attract a neglectful love.

If you're desperate, you'll attract a weak love.

But if you're peaceful, you'll attract a peaceful love.

And the reason I say this is if you were able to come up with all the reasons you don't want to be alone and find people to help with all of those feelings, you're now in a state of peace.

That's why that's the answer that works.

Dude, that was so good.

Okay, so let's say you've done the work that you've just laid out and you really start to go inwards.

But there's also the person that ends up choosing the wrong person time and time again and becomes this toxic cycle.

And I'm really curious on why on earth sometimes we go for the person that isn't right for us and ignore the person that actually is right for us.

Oh, gosh, such a good question, Elise.

Honestly, I can think of like at least five people I know that are in that position.

And everything I'm about to say, I want it to be noted that I'm saying it from a place of empathy and compassion because this isn't about judgment.

and it isn't about shame and it isn't about guilt because I think often we feel that way.

We're scared of actually saying this to our friends because we're scared they'll judge us and say, we told you so.

We're scared of telling our families because they'll say, I knew that guy wasn't right for you.

And all of a sudden you feel shamed and guilted.

And I always say to people, guilt blocks growth and shame blocks shifts.

You're not going to get from guilt and shame to growth and shifting.

It's just not going to happen.

So the reason we're chasing the wrong person is because we're running away from the right person, right?

We've confused inconsistency with excitement and we've confused stability with boredom we've confused attention

with love

and we've confused effort with desperation if someone puts in effort we see them as being desperate if someone puts in time we see them as being needy if someone turns up and shows up We think they're the one who needs us because we've convinced ourselves that love is chasing someone rather than wanting someone who never wants to leave.

We've convinced ourselves that this treadmill, this rat race of convincing someone to stay is what love is.

And so I think the problem is we've created very unhealthy views of love.

And by the way, I see this all the time.

At that event that I was just talking about, one of the guys, he said to me, he said, why is it that when someone's putting effort, I feel like they're not attractive?

And I said, because you're thinking about the next three to six months and not thinking about the next five to ten years.

I promise you, in five to ten years, you'll want someone who wants to sit with you and do nothing on the couch.

In five to ten years, you'll want someone who texts you every day to check in with how work is.

In five to ten years, you'll want someone who, when they're traveling, don't forget to call you because they want to make sure that you've checked in.

But for the first three to six months, you kind of want someone who's giving you two things.

You want someone who's giving you a feeling of excitement and a feeling of stress because that's ultimately what chemistry is, right?

Will they give me their number?

That's the stress.

The excitement is, I got their number.

The stress is, oh my God, what should I text them?

The excitement is, oh my God, they just text me back.

The stress is, oh my gosh, are they going to say yes to a second date?

The excitement is, yes, they just said yes.

And so this kind of oscillating feeling of stress and excitement is what creates the spark, is what creates chemistry.

Now, when you've been in a long-term relationship like you and Tom have, or slightly shorter than me and Radhi have had,

now you don't get stress and excitement.

Most of it just becomes peace.

I don't need to stress whether Radhi's going to be at home tonight because I know she's at home tonight.

So the problem is is we've got to make ourselves realize that what you want now and what's right for your future are not the same thing.

And if you want to live in this bubble of excitement and stress, that's going to go anyway.

So why not find someone who doesn't give you stress, who doesn't bring you anxiety, who doesn't make you feel nervous?

Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't feel excited to see that person.

But there's a big difference between excitement and anxiety.

God, everything you're saying really hit me in the sense of I had been there once upon a time with my ex-boyfriend.

He was very toxic.

He was very verbally abusive.

And I literally, when I left him, when I finally found the courage day, I was like, I'm going to find a guy that likes me, that's nice, that's kind, that's considerate.

I found a guy that was nice, kind, and considerate before Tom.

And I was like, well, this is boring.

So this, again, a really, really interesting thing happened at this event.

I found out in my teens that a lot of my guy friends had a technique they used.

And their technique was to pick on women or notice something that was a flaw about them.

So every other guy would come up to you and be like, oh I really liked your shoes or oh you have a beautiful smile or oh I really like your eyes and they'd get looked over and one guy would come up and he would say

there's something off about you today.

I'm not sure the energy around you is just I don't know, it feels like there's something, but I don't know, you're like holding back.

And all of a sudden that woman is spending the whole evening thinking about that guy.

This happened to one of my team members a couple of months back.

And someone came up to her and said,

that coat you're wearing today just feels like you're scared of opening up.

And she was thinking about that guy the whole night.

And there were other men who came and told her positive things and beautiful things and whatever, and she couldn't think about it.

And so I think a lot of men have used that technique to get attention.

And it sounds crazy because when you hear it, it logically doesn't make sense.

but when you think about it in the moment you're like yeah of course that makes sense because you feel they sense something about you you feel they noticed your energy but they didn't they were just trying to find a way and that when you were at six years old that was pulling your hair yeah but this is the updated version that women experience today and so we love that mystery we love that feeling of like oh well if he's being mean that's just his way of flirting with me But do you want someone who's mean when they flirt with you?

Like, is that what you want?

Is that how you want to feel?

So I don't don't want someone who notices my weaknesses before they notice my greatness.

And so I think it's a matter of priority, but it does come from childhood and it continues on.

I think a big part of it is also we've never seen positive relationships mirrored for us.

Like, when did you grow up?

If you could remember one positive relationship growing up, I don't think I saw that.

And so people are mirroring what they saw on TV.

They're mirroring what they saw at home.

They're mirroring what they saw in magazines.

I mean, me as an Indian boy growing up in London, grew up, if you asked me who I was attracted to, I was attracted to blonde-haired women with blue eyes.

But I'd never probably even met someone with blonde hair and blue eyes.

But that's what I was told to fall in love with.

That's what was marketed to me.

And so I think we underestimate how much marketing has an impact on us.

When I was going to propose to Radhi, I asked my brother-in-law how much I should spend.

on an engagement ring.

And he said, you should spend about two to three months' salary.

I was like, okay.

So I went and spent two to three months salary and I'd spoken to a couple of other men who'd said the same thing.

Thankfully I didn't make a lot at that time so it wasn't that much of a expense.

I bought the ring proposed obviously.

Riley said yes we got married.

Now what's really interesting is years later I looked into that because I was like why was that so specific?

Two to three months seems like a really thought-through plan.

And I spoke to a lot of other men who all concurred with me that they spent two to three months salary no matter how much they made.

I started looking at it online.

I found a De Beers commercial from the 1980s.

I'm not kidding you.

You can go and find it on YouTube.

YouTube is right now.

I went onto YouTube.

In the 1980s, there's a commercial which I remember it being like a silhouette of a man and a woman.

And I'm not kidding you, at the end of the commercial, it says what better way to spend two to three months salary.

Oh my God.

It literally says that.

And I couldn't believe it.

I was like, wow, we've all been brainwashed that I proposed 25 years after that commercial came out.

I've never even seen that commercial like before that.

And I'm following this advice and so is everyone else.

And I think it also comes from our hunter-gatherer days that you wanted someone who could protect you.

You wanted someone who could fight off the lions and the snakes.

You wanted someone who could build a home from scratch.

And today, our modern day version, which makes no sense, our modern day version is, well, that's what a bad boy can do.

A bad boy can protect me.

A bad boy can do this.

A bad boy can do that.

But that doesn't actually add up and it doesn't make sense because protection in modern day is very different to protection in ancient days.

All now is related to how much the man earns.

Correct.

Well, I mean, well, that's a whole nother conversation.

I really think that

if you're choosing who you want to be with simply based on how much they earn, how tall they are, or what job they have, you are marrying their salary, their bank account and their job, not them.

What does that mean?

It means, yes, you will never run out of money, but you may never have enough love.

It may mean that you can boast about your partner's title, but they may not be with you at every place you want them to be at.

So you have to realize what you're marrying, what you're committing to.

That's what you're getting in this exchange.

And I think what's really interesting to me is I meet a lot of friends and women who will say to me, I really want a man who's successful, but I want him to be my number one cheerleader.

And I'm like, well, have you realized that the person who's out there making money and being successful, they can't be a cheerleader at the same time because they've got to be on the field.

The person on the field can't be your cheerleader.

I'm not saying that you should choose one over the other, but I'm saying you've got to be clear about the choices you're making.

I love Radhi.

I can't be there.

with her as a cheerleader every step of the way wherever she is.

Neither can Radhi be with with me.

I know a lot of men who will say the same thing, like, oh yeah, I want my wife to be independent, but then I want her front row seat when I'm winning.

And I'm like, well, wait a minute, which one do you want?

And so I think we're really,

it's almost like we want everything and in that we get nothing.

The other day I said something to Tom about menopause and I was like, I just need this because I'm very menopause, babe.

And he turns around to me and he's like, I will absolutely support you.

But he's like, look, you have a group of girlfriends that are going through the same thing.

He's like, so no matter how much I I try to see you he's like I just I cannot see it through your eyes because I'm not a woman I don't know what it's like to be going through this at your age so he's like I'm doing the research I'm reading the books but if there is something that I just cannot grasp turn by all means turn to your friends for it now the thing also though is that a lot of women do is almost the opposite so this is what my partner wants this is what they love so let me sacrifice in the small things it isn't a big deal so it's like all right fine i'll go watch soccer with him even if i don't like soccer that's one thing but the big ones that actually end up wrecking a lot of women is they've sacrificed their entire lives they've sacrificed the career for the family whether it's kids or the husband and as we get older we start to realize hang on a minute what about me and that maybe compromise that we felt good with now actually we realize was a sacrifice that we'll never get back.

How do you differentiate compromise and sacrifice?

And where's that fine line between one's actually really healthy and one's like the thing that will break your relationship?

Yeah, there's two words that I like using more than sacrifice and compromise because I think they come with so much baggage.

And the two words are adjusting and abandoning.

And so there's a difference between adjusting yourself and abandoning yourself.

Adjusting yourself means I'm making room for love.

Abandoning.

means I'm disappearing to make space for it.

Adjusting is saying I'm happy to be flexible.

Abandoning is saying I'm going to bend so much that I'll probably break.

Adjusting is growing.

I'm actually becoming better through this choice.

Abandoning is shrinking.

I'm losing myself through this choice.

And adjusting is I'm going to help you move forward.

Abandoning is I'm going to leave myself behind.

And so what I find a lot of us do is when we don't know who we are, we abandon ourselves.

And the difference is, adjusting is something two people do.

Abandoning is something one person does.

Adjusting requires two people to move, to mold, to pivot.

Abandoning just requires one person to give up everything.

And so what I find the reason why a lot of people end up in this place is because they were never told to have their own dream.

They were never told they were allowed to have their own mission.

They're never told that they had a purpose.

And chances are they met someone, their partner, who had a very clear purpose and they assumed that my purpose must be to help them.

And it kind of felt good in the beginning because it gave life meaning.

Right in the beginning, it was all good.

It was like, I'm going to do this for them and they're going out to crush it and they'll do really well and I'll live through them.

And then maybe if I have children, I'll live through them.

And so all of it becomes living life and meaning.

through being a provider and a supporter of other people.

Which, by the way, if it satisfies you, that's beautiful.

It sounds like me and you have met a lot of people who are not satisfied by that and i think the reason for that is your purpose can't be a person right your purpose is something that isn't dependent on someone else's existence it's dependent on you that's what it is it's something that's connected to you not connected to you and that person that you're serving so in the beginning it felt good we got it we found meaning As time went on, you started to realize that person was living their dreams and you were just watching them.

And no matter how good you felt watching that person live their dreams, you want to live your dreams too.

Now you have two choices.

A lot of us will blame it on that person.

And when you blame it on that person, chances are you've heard these words before, they'll say, well, I didn't ask you to.

I didn't tell you to.

And that really hurts.

Yes.

Because you've just given up so much.

And you're like, wait a minute.

You didn't ask me to, but you never told me to stop.

You never told me not to.

You gladly took it when I did it for you.

So wait a minute, where are we now?

Now that fractures the relationship.

It's one of the biggest reasons people will break up, get divorced, relationship falls apart, they lose connection.

So what do we do in that?

A mature person would never have said, well, I never asked you to.

A mature person will say, well, what's your dream?

The challenge is that person didn't even have the foresight.

to understand that you were going to feel this way.

They just got excited that your life looked like it had meaning.

And they were like, great, this helps.

It works.

it's supporting all of us we're good so it's not that they're a bad person it's just that they didn't really think that far ahead because chances are they've never seen someone think that far ahead i couldn't be more excited to share something truly special with all you tea lovers out there and even if you don't love tea if you love refreshing rejuvenating refueling sodas that are good for you listen to this Radhi and I poured our hearts into creating juni sparkling tea with adaptogens for you because we believe in nurturing your body and with every sip you'll experience calmness of mind, a refreshing vitality and a burst of brightness to your day.

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And they're responsive, I never asked you to.

You can kind of understand why they would say that as a protective mechanism because it feels right now, oh my God, is it all my fault that your life hasn't been what you hoped it would be?

Well, that's a big burden for a partner to take on.

So to protect yourself, you make it was that was your decision, which actually is true.

It is true, but it's a really harsh decision.

Yes, because you've encouraged them you've applauded them every time they've made you and look i'm speaking for myself with me and tom where it was like every time i would cook dinner and clean his clothes he was always like you're the best greek wife ever and then eventually after eight years i'm like i don't want to cook and clean for you anymore but he actually never asked me to in the first place yeah yeah and that and that's that like weird space we all end up in where we take on a role because we get validation in the beginning.

Yes.

And we appreciate and like that.

And then we run out of that role.

We don't want to play that role anymore.

anymore by the way, which is also natural and the problem is when we don't want to play that role anymore that other person got so used to us playing that role that they're now also going through a grief and we're going through a grief they're going through a grief of our former self that they were in love with and we're going through a grief of our former self so we're both missing a person who doesn't exist anymore they're missing the person we used to be we're missing the person we used to be but we know we want to be a different person and they're trying to figure out whether they're going to like this different person so there's a lot at play here

What we want to do is if you're at the early stages of a relationship, spot this early, both men and women, whoever you are, whichever role you're playing, spot it early.

Don't just fall into the trap of, oh, it works for now.

Let's just see how it goes.

And I think if your partner can't see that, you need to see that for yourself.

Take responsibility.

I think it genuinely comes down to looking back at you taking control, accountability, and power of your life and what you're going to do with that time and energy now.

Like, you just don't want anything you said to sound like you're blaming that other person and shifting the accountability onto them.

Because like you said, it's going to feel weighty for them and they're going to feel like, oh, God, I don't want to take on that weight.

I feel too much pressure.

Now I'm going to throw it back on you.

And that's what we end up doing.

So I think it's fine to say, hey, I've been doing this for the last 10 years.

It's not who I want to be anymore.

And I understand that that adjustment is going to make changes for you.

I'd love to discuss those changes.

And now you're talking talking about the changes and the edits, not talking about that person and you, rather than saying, oh, you won all the awards you wanted to, where am I?

When you make it about you and them, all of a sudden you're not talking about what it's actually about, which is here's how things are going to change.

How is this going to affect you?

What can we do in the middle period to make the transition more effective?

It's change management, not the person management.

And I think the challenge is we make it about that person and what they should have done, what they could have done, the time we've lost, the energy we've invested, what we didn't get out of it.

And I get it, that is the emotional layer that needs to be explored.

But that's not going to keep that person in your life in a healthy way.

It's going to create friction.

And sadly, we don't have many good examples of people who've been through that transition because people turn it into a blame game.

Yeah, I made sure that I didn't blame Tom.

And I needed to make sure it was true before I said it.

But the truth was, he didn't force me.

The truth is, I never said I was unhappy.

Like all of these things I had to be very honest about of where my

actions actually contributed to where I was.

I actually interviewed recently a guy called Jefferson Fisher and he's so good.

Okay, so he even said when you're having a tough conversation, instead of saying, I want to talk to you, right, that makes it very personal, you say the room.

So you're saying, I want this room to be a safe space where I can be transparent and honest.

Are you comfortable with that?

And so you're saying it's the room instead of them.

You're then getting their buy-in to say yes.

And you're then saying um i don't need you to fix it i need this to be a place where you can listen and so you're telling them what to expect so learning the language to communicate with your partner so you don't trigger them so that you both can have an emotionally sober conversation i think ends up being the most fruitful thing that we can do i always say to people use us and we yeah not you and me yeah so i've had couples that I've worked with write out what they want to say and all of it is filled with you and me.

You didn't do this.

It made me feel like this.

You always do this.

You never think about me.

So it's you and me, you and me, you and me.

And I've asked them to change every you and me to us and we.

Why?

Because now we're a team.

If I say,

let's think about how we can get to where we want to be.

Let's think about us at the center.

of this conversation.

Let's think about how to protect us.

Now I'm not saying you need to be thinking about how to protect me.

You should be thinking about how to make me happy.

Well, then we're not a team anymore.

Now I'm saying it's all your responsibility, it's all your accountability, and it's all on you.

And by the way, I'm sitting over here feeling hurt, dejected, and down.

Whereas now when I say, is this what we both want?

Is this the kind of relationship that we both want to have?

Do we want to create a space where both of us can grow?

All of a sudden, it's like, yes, we're doing this together.

Yes, we're a team.

Yes, we're collaborating.

And I think too many people are competing for power rather than collaborating to create power together.

And that competition with your partner is the worst place to be because now you're trying to be right, not kind.

Now you're trying to win, not win together.

Now when you win, it means they lose.

I always say this to people.

If you win an argument, that means your partner lost.

You both lost.

If you win and they lose, you lose.

If they win and you lose, you lose.

You either win together or lose together because you're together.

So us and we, not you and me, solves that.

And I recommend people write out what they're about to text, what they're about to say to their partner.

And if you changed every you and me to us and we, it will transform the energy of the conversation.

That's so good.

That's so simple and so good.

So simple.

And one other thing that you just mentioned that was almost subtlety, it takes out the absolutes of like, you never do this for me.

Because I think that when you're trying to make an effort and then someone says, you don't ever, it's kind of like, well, why am I even bothering?

And so if you say we, there was no absolutes in the we.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

It's, there's two words you want to take out of every argument.

Always and never.

Because no one always does something and no one never does something.

We always have so much more gray and so much more in between, but we're so tempted to just say, you never do anything for me.

Or you always forget to do the dishes.

And those statements make that person feel that you've invalidated any time that they actually followed through.

Chances are they have followed through, but we're invalidating it.

Now, what are we arguing about?

We're arguing about the mathematical accuracy.

of how often I've washed the dishes versus when I haven't, which was not the conversation.

Now everyone's like, all right, tell me one.

Spawn, tell me one.

Prove me one.

And then they're like, yeah, I did it last Thursday and the Thursday before and the last Friday.

And now we're arguing about mathematical accuracy.

And I think the point is when we're having a disagreement, we're never really arguing about the disagreement.

Yeah, no.

We're arguing about affection.

We're arguing about power.

We're arguing about attention, love, validation.

That's what we're arguing about.

But now we think we're arguing about the dishes.

We think we're arguing about the birthday.

That's not what we're arguing about.

And so the more we can actually focus on what we're actually talking about, which is what we were just talking about, let's talk about the transition.

We're not arguing about whether you achieved your dreams and i didn't we're talking about how does this change now and that's what we need to win for yeah god that's a second um okay so you mentioned earlier about how sometimes we can uh misunderstand or miscommunicate and we think one thing's one thing but actually it's the other so the compromise versus the sacrifice in your words it would be adjusting and abandoning yeah amazing um i actually have a few more because i was like okay what are the things that get us trapped in a relationship going back to like the settling thing and why we either choose the wrong person or we end up staying in the relationship that isn't right.

And there are a few things that I think that we get confused.

So I've written a few down that actually love to talk about.

So actually let's start with love and lust.

So how would you look at the difference between love and lust and how if someone's listening right now, can they decipher which one they're in?

The difference between love and lust is that lust is that excitement, exhilaration of connection.

Love is how you handle disconnection.

If there's only lust,

then when there's an an argument or a disagreement, you don't know how to get on the same page.

That's why we call it makeup sex or breakup sex, because you resort to an activity that's fueled by passion to solve a problem that can't be healed by it, right?

If you've had a disconnection or if you've had a problem or if there's a challenge and you don't like the way the person behaves with you, then there's no love because that's what you're looking for.

You're looking for, can someone bring love to a place where there isn't any or where we're lacking it or where we've run out of it or where we've lost it?

That's what love is.

Love is something that exists within both of you.

And when you're disagreeing, you're distant.

If there's love, you'll become closer through it.

If there isn't love, you push yourselves away through it.

So when I meet a new couple, I like to ask them, what was the last disagreement you have?

And do you like the way your partner and you came to a conclusion or came to a solution?

It's how we deal with the tough stuff that makes all the difference.

That's so good.

What's interesting, I've been with someone for 25 years.

We've never once had makeup sex.

I'm just thinking about it.

That's a good thing.

That shows why you feel like that.

Yeah, that's almost like actually, because once we've like kind of come to an agreement, I'm still so raw.

And so I just need to be cuddled.

I need sweetness.

Like, the last thing I want is like crazy sex.

Yeah.

So that's fascinating.

I've never done that.

Well, the studies show, right, that the reason why sex releases chemicals, that makes you forget the argument.

argument.

Oh, yeah.

So it's not even like you actually feel better.

You just think you feel better.

And so you actually never came to a solution.

And that's why it's not the healthiest way to solve a problem.

Because if you're relying on lust to solve the problem, then all you're left with is lust.

It's not love.

That's so true.

But yet, my ex, who is very toxic, we had a lot of makeup sex.

Yeah.

And breakup sex.

Yeah.

All right.

So the difference between comfortable or complacent.

Have you settled into a healthy rhythm or are you stuck in an unfulfilling unfulfilling routine?

I think comfortable is something you feel together and complacent is something one person feels.

So if you can both agree, I love the way we're living.

We love our life.

I love the vacations we go on.

I love our friends.

I love what we're creating.

There's a comfort in that.

And that's what we're all looking for.

We're looking for someone that we can come home to and cozy up with.

We're looking for someone who feels like a warm cup of coffee.

That's comfortable, right?

We want that in a partner.

But if one person can't agree to that, then that person feels the other person's being complacent.

Now, what happens is people are scared to accept that they're being complacent because it means like they're not showing up enough or doing enough.

It's a very negative word.

It's a very negative word.

But the point is, you've got to listen to your partner.

If your partner is genuinely saying, hey, I don't think we're comfortable, I think we're complacent.

There's no moments to look forward to anymore.

And that's what complacency is.

I think comfort is

comfort is stable excitement, right?

It's like we feel a sense of there's still things to look forward to.

We come back down.

There's this beautiful harmonic movement of a wave.

There's like a comfort in looking at the ocean, even though it's constantly moving.

It's still moving, it's doing its thing.

Complacency is almost just like there's no

rhythm.

There's only routine.

We're kind of both robots performing the same roles, the same tasks, the same things.

There's no spontaneity.

There's no change.

There's no shift.

And I think it really does take one person to have the courage to say it.

And my hope is that when the other person hears it again, you as a team come to a conclusion about how to get out of it.

It's still a together thing to solve, even if it's a one person to raise.

This is the biggest thing.

If you

want this relationship to work, you've got to help your partner help themselves, help your relationship and you help them and i think the challenge we have is a lot of us feel like we're the only one doing it

and if you feel you're the only one doing it there's two things you need to do the first thing you need to do is something i call a relationship audit because this has helped me so many times a lot of us think relationships are who makes the money who takes care of the house We look at it through two things.

But relationships are physical, who's taking care of the house, the physical surroundings.

financial, who is making the money, taking care of the finances.

It's mental, who's setting the mindset of this relationship.

It's emotional, who's setting the nurturing of this relationship.

And it's spiritual, who's setting the faith or the spiritual direction of this relationship.

Every time I've thought about it this way, I've realized, Me and Radhi are even leaders.

And I think that gives me a sense of strength and confidence.

If we only look at it through two things, which is what we do, finance and home, you might feel like you do everything.

And it's really important on us for broadening the view.

Now, if you look at it as those five metrics and you're doing four out of the five, that person's complacent.

It's just there.

It's true.

It's really, really, it's hard.

And especially if you're dissatisfied, if you're satisfied, it's fine.

I think we have to zoom out when you're feeling that way and really assess it because too many people will say, I do everything.

so at the beginning of my relationship I used to feel I did everything not to realize that Radhi set the mental mood and the emotional heart of the whole relationship and physically takes care of everything like the fridge always has food in it and I've never ordered anything in my entire life and it's always stocked with the best goodies and everything else and spiritually Radhi runs the relationship so actually now I'm realizing she's doing four hours

but what's interesting because in your head though you were like well hang on I'm working I'm doing this and it's the doing it's the doing that we put emphasis on.

Yeah.

But what about the energy?

Like Radhi is like, wakes up and is doing a little dance in the kitchen.

I come home tired, I'm moping and moody, and she's smiling and giving me a hug.

We don't value those things.

But those things are huge.

But we don't value them because they don't show up on the spreadsheet.

They don't show up in the bank balance.

So you don't value those things.

And I think a lot of us think we overdo, but actually, if you looked at it on the actual spectrum of the five things I've just said, you'd realize we're actually pretty equal.

So that's one thing.

And the second thing I'd say is that if you do that exercise and then you really feel like you are the one doing everything,

then it may be time to leave.

It may be time to say, I'm not accepting this anymore.

It may be time to say, I can't keep doing all of this anymore and I deserve better than this.

And that's okay, too.

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I'm such a data person as well that I love that you just broke it down out of like four and like a, it's like a checklist.

Yeah, it is a checklist.

Yeah, make it because we all have a scorecard anyway, but we only mark ourselves on the scorecard.

Exactly, and it's all emotional as well.

It's all emotional, and you never give the other person a point.

So, if you wash the dish, right, so it's like if you wash the dishes.

No, yeah, but I told you to wash the dishes and I put the soap out.

Exactly, it's that you're always counting everything you do right.

That's what we do.

We count everything we do right, and we count everything our partner does wrong.

You will never miss something that you got right, and you will never miss something your partner got wrong.

But what does that create?

It creates distant disconnection and dissatisfaction.

Whereas when you zoom out and you start counting every little thing your partner gets right and you start to notice the things you get right and wrong, all of a sudden you start to recognize we're probably more equal than we believe we are.

And I think more people would win from that.

I've gained so much from that exercise.

That's so good.

I love it.

I'm going to definitely take that one.

I've got a few more for you.

All right.

Difference between intuition or insecurity.

How to tell if your gut is warning you or if past trauma is clouding your judgment?

The difference between intuition and insecurity is insecurity is based on the past and intuition is based on the present.

You don't want a bad past relationship to impact your notes on the relationship you're in today, but you want to check it.

So if you have an insecurity, you should check it.

If you have an intuition, you should check it.

And I think the problem is we're trying to make decisions based on intuition or insecurity when actually what we should be doing is asking questions.

So there's two questions I believe that everyone should ask as early as possible in a relationship.

The first is, how do you show love?

That person may say to you, I show love by always showing up on time.

I show love by always picking up the phone.

I show love by always responding to a text message.

And all of a sudden you realize that you were just insecure about whether they loved you or not because you were measuring whether they loved you based on how your ex loved you rather than asking them how do they show love.

Because you didn't see them turning up on time as love, you saw it as being timely.

You didn't see them picking up the phone as love, you saw that as being available.

You didn't see them as texting back as being love, you saw them as being responsive.

But that was love.

through being available responsive because that's how they see love and you should tell that person how you see love now you take away insecurities because now I don't have to guess whether a text or a lack of one is love or not because the person's told me how they show love.

And the second question is

what do you need when you're sad?

What do you need when you're having a bad day?

What would you like me to do?

Because the truth is we're all guessing.

It's where our intuition fails us sometimes.

We're thinking, what do I need?

on a bad day and we're trying to give it to that person.

And what's really interesting is we think people love the way we do.

And when they don't, we feel hurt.

So we feel, well, if I was stuck or having a bad day, I know I'd want a hug.

I know I'd want a really nice message.

I know I'd want you to turn up.

And so we do that to that person.

And that person goes, wait, wait, wait, this is too much.

I didn't need this.

And we think, oh, well, that person doesn't love me.

They don't appreciate me.

But actually, we never checked in with them.

And so to me, intuition and insecurity are all about checking.

And these are my two favorite questions.

That's so good.

Okay, let me give in a scenario for you then.

And I want you to let me know how you navigate navigate it.

So, let's assume you're on a date and you really like them, and you're like, oh my God, we have this connection.

Maybe they're the one.

And my gut is telling me this is the one, Jay.

So,

how do you know in that moment that your gut is telling you that that person is the right person?

Or it's just the toxic pattern that you've had from childhood that says if someone acts like this, it means love.

You don't know in that moment Your gut's lying to you.

It's just plain and simple.

It's very unrealistic for anyone to know in the first month of dating whether someone is the one or one of the people they'll be with.

Now, that person may evolve into the one, but you can't truly guarantee you knew it in that moment.

You may say that in hindsight, and a lot of people will be like, and by the way, me and Radhi say that too.

I felt like I knew that.

By the way, when I met Radhi, I knew in the first week or the first couple of weeks that she was the one.

I would have said that then.

Now when I look back on that statement, I realize how crazy that was because I didn't even know what was expected of me.

What's been expected of me in the last 12 years has made me realize she's the one every day.

I could never have known that on our wedding day.

And by the way, even if your intuition turns out to be right, that's beautiful.

But let's not put that out there as advice.

That's what I'm trying to get to.

And so I always say to people that you will fall in love with three people in your life.

The first is a firework.

It lights up the sky, it's a big bang, but it fades very, very quickly.

And we all fall in love with that person.

There's a second person you'll fall in love with, which is the candle.

It burns not as bright.

It's a bit calmer.

It burns longer, but you might even put it out yourself because it gets boring.

And then the third person is the mirror.

And the mirror compassionately holds up to you a reflection of yourself.

Shows you all your flaws, your weaknesses.

And the problem is a lot of us can't handle that.

We think the mirror is broken because we don't want to see that.

And so we push that away.

And that's usually the one.

The one's usually the person who can hold up the mirror to you in a compassionate and non-judgmental way.

So you'll have people who hold up the mirror to you, but they'll do it by going, look at who you are, don't you see it?

That's not the one.

You'll have people who hold up the mirror to you, but it's a broken mirror because they're just projecting their brokenness brokenness onto you.

And that's not the one.

The one is the person who compassionately, non-judgmentally, with love and empathetically holds up a mirror to you and allows you to hold up a mirror to them.

And I don't believe that's one person that's out there.

It's the person that you both do it for.

It has to be a mutual thing.

And so I think we need to lose this idea of this destined, fated, perfect person, fully formed, fully created that exists, and go, who's willing to work for me?

And who am I willing to work for?

Who's willing to learn with me?

And who am I willing to learn for?

Who's willing to grow for me?

And who am I willing to grow for?

And you won't know that in the first month.

You have no idea in the first month whether someone's willing to grow for you, whether someone's willing to learn for you, whether someone's willing to change for you.

Go through the challenges, grow through the challenges, make mistakes, see how you respond and live through that.

And so, you know, someone loves you not when you have a great first date, but when you have a a great first fight Like you know someone loves you not when they surprise you on your birthday But when they can deal with you having a surprising or challenging emotion You know someone loves you not when you have an amazing vacation together But when you figured out how to be okay when you didn't have one like that's how you learned that you loved each other when I look at me and Radi I look at the fact that when we moved country, when I lost my jobs, when I was transitioning, like like when we were figuring stuff out, that's what proves to me that she's the one.

Not the amazing wedding we had and not the amazing early dates we had.

Like they don't now prove to me that we love each other.

So I don't think you get to see that for a long time.

And it is that investment.

And there was a study that I read that showed that to make someone an acquaintance, a casual acquaintance in your life, takes 40 hours.

To consider someone a friend in your life, you have to spend 100 hours.

And to consider someone a good friend in your life, you have to spend 200 hours.

If you haven't spent 200 hours together yet, you really don't know this person.

And I think that's why as adults, it's so hard to find adult friends and why it's so hard to date, because it's very unlikely that as an adult, you have 200 hours to get to know someone.

But that's true.

And I feel that resonates.

When I think about anyone I feel knows me deeply and that I know deeply, I've spent 200 hours with them.

In your first month of dating, what do you know about this person?

You don't know about their relationship with their parents.

You don't know about their relationship with their siblings.

You don't know about their relationship with their boss.

You don't know about their relationship with you in any other circumstance apart from on this interview like date.

You actually know very little about this person.

And so until you've actually lived life and experienced different facets of their life, let's not start building a life with someone that we don't know anything about their life.

That's so true.

And I don't know if you remember this, but there was something that you taught me that stuck with me to this day.

So it was about maybe two years ago.

I can't remember what trip we were on together.

For everyone at home, we've been on many trips together.

And someone had really hurt me emotionally and had broken my trust.

And I remember turning to you and I was like, Jay, I didn't see it coming.

I was like, I trusted them and they backstabbed me.

And I remember you looking at me and you're like, okay, so did you have them earn your trust?

And my answer was no.

And I remember you saying that this was years ago.

And still to this day, whenever I go to, oh my God, I trust them.

The very next thing is you in my head saying, hang on, but have they earned it?

And so I think then in those moments, in that first month of dating, we go off our emotions and the chemicals in our body.

But we're made to believe it's love or trust or things like that.

And I'm so glad you remembered that and it resonated with you.

I'm not saying you're sitting there either judging them as well and going, oh, wait a minute, are they trustworthy?

Like it's not like, it's not either or.

And the reason I say that is because I think we give away trust too easily.

If you've not seen seen someone in multiple moods, and when you're in multiple moods, how can you trust them?

Because you don't know how they're going to respond to you being a certain way.

So you can't trust them in that specific experience.

And so your trust is very broad and overarching.

And I think at one point, we just have to stop breaking our own heart because we don't fall in love with the person.

We fall in love with who we expect them to be.

We don't fall in love with

the person that they are.

We fall in love with the potential that we see for them.

We don't fall in love with the

acts that they show us.

We fall in love with the dreams that we hope they're going to help us build.

And so our constant reality is being lived in our head.

And now you're not living in reality.

You're living in your mind.

And then that person doesn't live up to the picture in your mind.

They're living in the real world.

And now they hurt you.

And so we break our own hearts because we don't allow that person to earn our trust we break our own hearts because we don't let them prove themselves in different experiences and scenarios and we break our own heart because we imagined who they were before they showed us they were and so we're constantly we're just constantly breaking our own hearts because You just don't know how someone's going to do something until you see them do it.

So where's that line between the values that someone has versus what they say?

Because actually, let's go back to relationships.

Yeah.

And how you cannot fix something.

In fact, I have to quote a Jay Shedey quote.

We think we have to fix people, but we have to love them while they fix themselves.

So how often do we try to?

Why is that detrimental?

And why do we keep doing it?

Why do we keep trying to fix people?

I think the first thing you have to understand is you can't fix anyone, right?

You can't fix someone else, but you can break yourself in the process.

You can't fix someone else, but you can waste a lot of years believing that you can.

And you can't fix anyone, but you can convince yourself that it's your responsibility.

So I think those are the three things we do.

We convince ourselves it's our responsibility.

We convince ourselves it's only a matter of time.

And we convince ourselves I'm ready to do anything it takes to fix them.

Because guess what?

We believe if we fight hard enough, I can make the wrong person the right person.

Why do we do it?

Number one, it validates us.

It gives our life meaning and value.

We have a role to play and we believe we have a target to hit.

If we can successfully make this person fixed, we did something amazing.

It's actually about us.

The second reason is we don't want to be with a loser by what we think is a loser.

We don't want to be with someone because that now brings down our value.

We now feel, well, if I'm with someone who doesn't sort themselves out, then everyone else is going to think that I have no value.

So now again, we're thinking about our value again.

We're actually not thinking about them.

And third, if we're truly compassionate and altruistic and really caring about them, we genuinely see their potential.

You see their potential and you're thinking, they could just be amazing.

They could be phenomenal.

And maybe there is a part of you that does it from a deep sense of care because you can see how amazing they are.

But the reason you can't fix them is because Maybe that's not what they want to fix.

Maybe that's not how they see they're broken.

Maybe that's not the part of themselves they want to mend.

The potential you see isn't the potential they see.

They maybe don't even want that life.

I remember saying that to Radhi for so long where it was like, I didn't want her to mirror her life off of anything I wanted to do.

I was like, I want you to do exactly what you want to do.

And Radhi loved learning.

So she did courses and she did Ayurveda and she did yoga teacher training.

She was doing all this education because she was so happy and excited about it.

She did a book because she was excited about it.

She launched the podcast because she was excited about learning.

And I've had so many people say to me, like, I wish he was more ambitious.

And I'm like, well, then go and find someone more ambitious because chances are he doesn't want to be ambitious.

He's showing you every day that he doesn't want to be ambitious.

And you think because you're ambitious, you can make him ambitious.

No, you can't.

You can make him try harder for a month.

But he's going to go back to being that same person.

And he probably just feels worse about it.

Exactly.

He's now carrying the guilt.

And now he's insecure, wondering if you're going to leave him because he actually thinks that you might because you're not satisfied with him.

Every time he meets an ambitious man, he's now judging himself and measuring himself up against that person, but he doesn't want to be that.

He has different values.

And so going back to a point we made earlier,

getting someone to value what you value isn't love.

If I convince you to value what I value, that isn't love.

Love is, I love what you value because it makes you who you are.

I've always said that Radi's number one value in life is family.

It's always her number one value.

My number one value in life is purpose.

I will choose purpose over a family event.

Radhi will choose family over a purpose event for her.

Neither's right or wrong.

It's just who we are.

And I love that for her.

If she would choose to go and spend time with her family over an event that I had to go to, I would love that for her.

Why?

It makes her the person I love.

The reason she's so adorable and lovable and everything is because of her value.

And why would she be happy for me to choose purpose over the family event?

Because she knows that's what makes me lovable.

The man that she loves, the man that she admires, the man that she respects is that man who makes that choice.

So you trying to change your partner's values are going to make them less of the person you love and more of the person you don't love.

You're actually going to take away from them their...

spark and their joy and their heart and their value and everything and you're actually going to become their kryptonite and shrink them because you're taking away what they value.

Okay, so what if you're with somebody?

So you've got with Radi, you know she values family.

You see it beautiful.

You see how that shows up.

What sometimes happens over time though is their value starts to change and they're now no longer that person that got the joy from let's say the family.

In those moments, I think we try to fix that person, to come back to the person that we first met, that we first fell in love with, and going back to the growth thing where it's like you can be on different paths.

Sometimes, I think someone in a relationship dynamic, one partner, is like, hang on a minute, I fell in love with this person.

This is the person I maybe married, this is the person that I was with, and now over time, you've changed.

How do you start to navigate that without the person feeling bad about that change?

So, Rodi met you, you just come out of monkhood.

I'm not sure what you would call it, but it's monkhood.

So, you just come out of monkhood, and you're coaching, you're teaching, she knows who you are, you're all spiritual.

Let's say 10 years later, you're just an ass, you don't care about work, you don't really care about people.

And now she's like, hang on a minute, you're not the person I fell in love with.

Yeah, absolutely.

There's three things.

The first is

you have to check whether that person wants to change and how they want to change and who they want to be.

And that will take time.

Because it will take time for them to open up and admit.

Because let's say they want to be that person they were before.

That's hard for them to admit because it feels really far for them and they feel it's quite impossible.

So in the beginning, they may say, I don't want to talk about it.

In the beginning, they may say, no, I love who I am.

In the beginning, they may say, no, I'm happy with how life's going.

But those are just defense mechanisms to not really go there because they find it an unimaginable task to become that person again.

So you have to be patient and check.

And that will take time.

The second thing, after checking and seeing if they're even ready for change, if they are, is

are you open

to being the person that is now required of you while they change?

Are you willing to be patient?

Are you willing to shift?

Are you willing to adjust?

in order to be patient now that you know how they're changing and where they're growing and going.

It's all about you.

It's not about them.

It's about, are you okay with that?

And then the third is, are you willing to fall in love with them again?

Are you willing to fall in love with the same person again now that they're a different person?

Or are you not?

So it's all about you.

We think it's about them.

I'll give you a really practical example.

I was working with someone years ago now and

they had discovered that their partner was addicted to porn.

And it was really hurtful to them because they didn't want to be in a partnership where the other person had this addiction.

So their first reaction was, this has to end.

I can't be with this person.

I thought they were the one.

I can't believe it.

When they sat themselves down and finally got the partner to open up, who, by the way, was ashamed, guilty, dealing with all of their stress around this themselves, the partner finally said,

I don't want to have this addiction either.

I really want to work on it.

So now it moved to question number two.

After the checking and knowing the question was and I asked them this question are you willing to be patient?

Are you willing to realize that your partner will have days where they will fall back into their addiction?

Are you willing to tolerate the idea that you may feel betrayed?

Are you willing to tolerate the memories you'll have of the pictures they have on their phone?

Because none of that's going away.

So it's not about whether you can forgive them.

It's about whether you can tolerate your memories, your pain and your stress that keeps coming back every time you look at them.

Are you willing to change and adjust because now you know where they want to go?

And are you willing to go at their timeline, not yours?

It's your question.

That person at that time said, yes, I'm going to wait.

I believe in them and I'm going to wait.

And then the third step.

is were they willing to fall in love with the same person who's now a different person.

That couple's been together for as long as I've known them now.

Wow.

And it was a long process.

It wasn't easy.

If someone's an addict, it's going to take a long time.

By the way, the person who was doing the waiting, they probably lost years of their life while they were supporting that person as well.

But they wanted to do that.

They opted in for that life.

And I don't think someone should be shamed or guilted for staying or leaving based on where they are in their life because you have to live based on your values.

And so yes, you may end up realizing that 10 years down the line, you're married to someone who has a different set of values.

And let's paint the opposite picture.

They like where their life's going.

They don't want to change.

They don't want to go back to who they were.

Sadly, you have to ask yourself the same question two and three.

Do I want to change with this change?

Do I even have to change?

Or actually, can I just be the same?

And can I fall in love with this person again now that they're a different person?

And if you can't, Sadly, that is how things end.

But you shouldn't force yourself to keep looking for the person they once were in the person they are today because you're going to spend your whole life searching for someone who's disappeared or doesn't exist anymore.

And you're going to keep hoping and waiting for that person to come back.

And people waste their whole life doing that when that person left a long time ago.

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Dude, that's such a great breakdown.

And I love how you think.

Like, I really love how you think because every time I'm like, okay, he's going to answer it like this, you never do.

Like the idea of like asking yourself those questions is so important.

Like a thousand percent.

Because I'm on you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think, but I'm look, I started Women of Impact Channel so that women never feel like they give their power away again.

And where are the moments where we end up losing that control or losing our power and we never find it again?

We spend the rest of our lives feeling weak, unable to get back up metaphorically.

And so I love the personal ownership.

I love it because then no one can impact it except for me.

And so even the way you broke it down, I think for me, I would have given my power away to that person.

How long are you going to take?

When are you going to do it, boy?

I thought you said you were going to do this, but you didn't just do that.

I was just about to say that all of those questions are unanswerable.

All of those questions have no answer.

If I asked you the question to think about like, well, how long do you think it's going to take for you to figure out this addiction?

That person doesn't have a clue.

It's your timeline.

And when you don't want to make it about your timeline, you want to make it about that person.

What you're doing is you're actually putting pressure on them to change next week.

I always always say to someone, I'm like, it's going to take someone like seven years to change.

Like if you really look at human change, it takes three to seven years for someone to actually change.

So you're committing to a long period of time if you're going to commit to change.

And that's if someone's actually doing the work, putting in the time, putting in the energy.

Now, what ends up happening is people usually put in the energy, they then fall back.

And when you're waiting for them to change, you're like, wait a minute, last month you were doing everything right.

What's going on right now?

And now what you're doing is creating stress for yourself and them.

If you're not willing to wait three to 10 years, chances are it's not going to happen in three months, depending on what the change is.

But I think a lot of us want things to happen in months that take years.

And it's an unanswerable question because no one knows.

And by the way, that person will always flip-flop because that's what change is like.

Change isn't linear.

It isn't in one direction.

It's multi-direction and multifaceted and up and down.

And so if you don't want to tolerate that, if you don't feel ready to do that, you're well within your rights to say, I can't do this.

And I think

it's so hard when we live our lives based on someone else's timeline.

You can't.

You'll always be chasing it or pressurizing it or pushing it.

It's such a good technique.

In thinking about change as well, the one thing that Tom and I do is if I'm trying to change something, so I used to say to him like, you always or you never, right?

I was very dramatic like that.

And I realized it.

I made a very conscious effort to stop.

But when you've been doing it in a relationship for 15, 20 years, it's so natural.

So I start changing my behavior, and it was like something like three or four months.

I hadn't said it.

I caught myself every time.

And then I go and accidentally drop it.

And he's like, here you go.

You go and do absolutely.

I'm like, you're right.

I've been doing it.

I haven't been doing it for four months and I just messed up.

And he's like, what do you mean you haven't been doing it for four months?

And so I realized, and we use this language with each other, it's like, I understand that your mental map of me hasn't quite updated yet.

And so it's going to take time for his mental map of of me to update.

It's kind of a way of saying, you may not have noticed, but I understand why.

Yes.

Because I think that's also on the other side.

We blame the...

I can't believe you ever noticed.

You said that you wanted me to do the dishes.

I've been doing the bloody dishes for two weeks and you haven't even noticed.

Now we get annoyed and we just give up.

Yes, absolutely.

You're so right.

And it's all about your level of tolerance and patience.

And you being really clear about your timelines helps them be clear about theirs.

If you say, hey,

I'm willing to to give this six months.

I'm willing to give this 12 months, let me put a timeline on it.

For me, that's how much I'm willing to be in this uncertainty, to figure this out with you, however you want me to help you, however you want to open up about it.

But at that point, I have to make a decision for my future.

And now you're not putting pressure on them, saying, you have to have solved your problem.

You're saying, that's how much time I'm giving myself.

And I think that's what we're looking for, but we're looking for it from them.

and that person's not going to give you any clarity that's so good do you think a couple can recover from infidelity

yes

and no so two things

the first

is your tolerance of the memories betrayal and pain

the question isn't can you recover The question is, are you okay with remembering?

The question isn't, can you recover?

recover the question is can you make sure not to remind them

the question isn't can you not recover the question is

how do I stop myself from making that our reality

you can always recover if you make those choices and again it comes back down to the person

who didn't do the cheating

or didn't do the mistake

because it's you who actually have to live with it.

And the same is true for that person.

Can they live in a relationship where they always feel a sense of shame?

Are they willing to rise even with the sense of guilt?

Are they willing to try and change even though they carry that pain because they have a pain as well?

And so it's such a together but independent thing because you're both having to tolerate and be patient about the same stuff but on different ends of the spectrum.

One person's feeling shame and guilt and the other person's feeling pain and stress and a sense of worthlessness potentially for someone if it's been that deep.

And it's all about how long we can tolerate those things for and move on.

And that's not easy for both and especially not for the person who actually was on the receiving end of it.

But that's what's required of it.

And where do you think people go wrong?

Because there's two types of people.

The person that leaves immediately, get that.

And the person that stays in or just like keeps forgiving them.

So I think there's mistakes on both sides.

So the mistake on the person who was on the receiving end is you now need to do more to make me feel more secure,

but I'm not going to do the work of trying to be more tolerant and patient with what I remember.

So you have to make sure that you are always showing me love, always showering me with affection so that I never have to deal with the emotion of the hurt that you've caused.

correct but that person could do all of that and if you don't process it yeah you still will feel that way now i'm not saying it's your fault i'm just saying that's the reality if you wanted to recover it isn't your fault this is not your fault like we have to just be really clear about it it's not your fault it doesn't it shouldn't have got there But that person could do everything right from now on.

And this relationship could still go wrong because you didn't process what you had to process.

So on your part, that's the mistake.

On the other person's part, the mistake happens is either they're overcompensating in really inauthentic ways, or they feel so guilt and shamed by it that they now bring it up in every argument and go, Oh, but you're always going to play that card.

Well, we don't play that card.

Like, oh, no, no, you're not allowed to use that card this time.

And now they start building rules about when and where it's used.

You're like, wait a minute, I'm the one who is on the receiving end of that.

I get to decide where when I talk about it.

And so, you haven't come to an agreement together about the vocabulary, the language, the connection of how is this discussed, Where does it land?

At what point are we complete through the healing process?

At what point am I comfortable to not talk about it again?

At what point am I going to bring it up?

And you can't rush me on that.

That's the conversation that needs to be happening, not the conversation of, have you forgiven me yet?

That's not the conversation.

The conversation is we may have to let this heal and talk about this for 12 months.

Whereas it's not like, okay, have you forgiven me?

It's been a week.

Have you forgiven me?

It's been a year.

Have you forgiven?

No, no, no.

What do we actually need to talk about?

Let's focus on that, not the end point.

We're all focused on the end.

Like, when will you forgive me?

I don't know.

When will you forget about it?

I don't know.

So let's not talk about deadlines.

Let's talk about what this relationship looks like, what the vocabulary around this conversation is.

When should we bring it up?

How should we raise it?

Are we going to do therapy together?

That's the conversations we want to be having if we both want this to work.

And that's the critical starting point.

Do we both want this to work?

I think sometimes the person who's forgiving thinks, I'm going to forgive you.

This is going to work out.

You made a decision on your own, but that person didn't have to do anything.

You just said, oh, I forgive you.

Let's, let's just move on.

It's okay.

But that person didn't get to take part in that decision.

You don't even know if they want to be there.

You don't even know if they want forgiveness or what that forgiveness looks like to them.

So now you could be forgiving someone who's happy to continue to make that mistake because you never got their buy-in.

on that decision you just made.

So you made it easier because you were like, I solved it.

It's fixed.

I've forgiven it.

Let's move on.

But you haven't because you don't know where they stand.

Most times I assume they're going to fake it or say, no, no, no, I'm never going to do it again.

And maybe in that moment, they really believe it.

But the deep work that you're really kind of breaking down, I think, really brings everything to the surface.

So there's nowhere to hide and there's no miscommunication.

And I'm going to go back to, I love that you're always saying like the personal ownership part of it because You couldn't control that they cheated on you, right?

That's just freaking heartbreaking.

But to be able to control how you navigate it afterwards, instead of waiting for them to show you, instead of waiting for them to say they're sorry so many times, I love that.

It's so important.

Yeah, you control it.

You have the power.

Like, don't live in a world where you're giving them power again.

Yeah.

Right?

So, this whole talk is really about building your self-worth, putting the validation on yourself, not expecting it for others.

What are like five daily habits that you actually suggest that somebody does in order to build their self-worth and make sure that they never sell in a relationship that isn't right for them?

Yeah.

The The first habit for self-worth, I'd say, is take on a daily or weekly challenge.

Take on a challenge that you set yourself, that you set the challenge, the limit, the time limit, how hard it is, the difficulty level, whether it's learning a new language, whether it's a new workout, whether it's a new sport.

And your self-worth will grow every time you accomplish a new level.

Your self-worth grows when you do hard things, when you do uncomfortable things, when you do difficult things on your own own and you see that you can do it, right?

When you see yourself lifting that much more in the gym, when you see yourself feeling that much stronger, all of a sudden your self-worth grows because you get belief that I can do this, right?

This is possible for me.

Another way you grow self-worth is undoing and unwiring

the

trauma and the patterns that hold you back from the past.

Now, what is a daily habit?

How do you do that as a daily habit?

What you you want to do is find one thing that you repeat that your parents did that you don't love.

Just find one thing.

And what you want to do is you want to be conscious of that one trigger and how it shows up in your life every day.

You're not guilting yourself.

You're not judging yourself.

You're becoming aware of it so you can spot it and transform it.

So for me, I'll give you an example.

I found that a lot of my early caregivers over-loved me, but then guilted me for not over-loving them back.

So they gave me lots of love, but then if I didn't give them back the same level of love, they'd say, you don't love me.

And I found myself doing that to Radhi.

I found myself doing that to my friends.

I found myself doing that to people in my life.

I'd overlove them and then guilt them for not loving me.

So I found one thing.

And I realized that Guilting my wife didn't make her love me more.

It pushed her away.

Guilting my wife made her feel feel that I didn't love her because I would treat her that way.

And all I did for one year was I was aware of that every day.

And every time I thought about guilting her, I would remind myself of how guilt didn't make me love that person more.

It pushed me away.

And so that technique that I'd subconsciously picked up was actually breaking what I wanted.

It wasn't actually getting me where I wanted.

So become aware of just one pattern.

Get into the details of it like that.

The the third habit for self-worth I'd say is

ask people that you love and trust what you're really good at and what they notice in you that they appreciate because you'll find that often they'll say things that you've never even thought of Ask them what what do I do really really well?

What skill do I have?

What do you appreciate about me?

What do you see about me?

And these are people you love and trust so it's not an uncomfortable conversation to have.

Just be like I'm doing a self-worth exercise.

I'm trying to learn more about myself.

And one of the things Jay and Lisa told me to do was to ask people that I love and trust what skills I have, what qualities I have, what they really admire about me, what I'm good at, what I appreciate.

Fourth step with the people that you're really close to, be okay with asking, what do I need to work on?

And work on that.

That will build self-worth.

Self-worth isn't just about pumping yourself up.

It's about noticing.

what's letting people down and building it and growing it and working on that.

Not to become a people pleaser or to make it up to them to say, look, I've changed now, but to say, oh, I've identified that I can work on that.

I'm confident working on it.

Self-worth is not being confident about what you're great at.

It's being confident enough to accept that there are things you're bad at and working on them.

That's what self-worth is.

I think we've painted self-worth to be all about the light, the positive, the good.

Self-worth is being able to move in the shadows to go into the cave of your darkness the negativity the bad and feel comfortable in in that and reconcile the two.

That's what self-worth's about.

And the fifth and final one I'd say is

program your thoughts

when you wake up and when you go to bed.

There's something that I learned from a guest of mine called Raul Jandial, and he's a surgeon and

a dreams expert.

And he was talking about this idea of something called sleep entry and sleep exit.

And so sleep entry is this idea of when you're just about to fall asleep.

And sleep exit is almost when you're just about to wake up.

And those moments are the moments where you can remember your dreams, you can program your subconscious thoughts.

You're in that kind of mid-state of you're not fully awake and you're not fully asleep.

It's a really interesting space to be.

And I would encourage everyone to code and program.

the thought that they want to have in those moments.

So if you think about it, you set an alarm the night before you wake up so that you can wake up in the morning.

You don't set an alarm the minute you wake up.

It doesn't make sense.

You would never do that.

So you have to code and program the thought you wake up with the night before.

That's so small.

So when I'm going to sleep, what is the thought I want to wake up with?

I am energized, healthy, rested, rejuvenated.

I am whatever it is.

Program that thought the night before, wake up with that thought, and again, choose that thought.

So there are 60 to 80,000 thoughts we have per day.

Studies show we have 80% negative, 80% repetitive thoughts.

So most of us are saying the same things to ourselves again and again.

We wake up in the morning, I look tired.

Wake up in the morning, oh, there's a spot on my face.

Wake up in the morning, I've put on weight.

Wake up in the morning, you know, whatever it is, we're just saying negative things to ourselves.

And guess what?

You say the same things to yourself every day for years.

That's what leads to burnout.

Let's take ownership of that thought and every day plant the seed of the thought that you want to wake up with and and that you want to sleep with, whatever it may be, whatever you're manifesting, whatever you're growing in your life, because you already say the same things to yourself every day.

So why not say things to yourself that you actually want to say?

That's so good.

Programming how you want to wake up.

How do you make sure that as you're falling asleep, you're not falling asleep with a negative thought?

Because there's actually one of the interviews that I saw you, I can't remember, it might have been with you and Radi, where you said that when most of us are so busy all day that we don't give our brains a rest, we're go, go, go.

And the only time we have a moment of rest is right before we go to bed, which is why all the negative thoughts come flooding to us right when we close our eyes.

Yes.

So what do you do to make sure that the negative flooding doesn't come right before you go to bed?

First of all, write down all of the negative thoughts and everything that's going on and everything you're thinking about in a book, a journal, outside of your bedroom.

Don't do it in bed.

A lot of people sit in bed and start writing.

Well, now the energy of your bed is heavy with all of the things you just wrote.

Write about it in another room, leave it there, put it on your phone, leave it there on a notes app, but do it in another room.

When you get into bed, either listen to your voice repeating the words that you want in your head so that you now start listening and trusting your own inner voice and having trust in your intuition.

Read it again and again if you don't like the sound of your voice and you think it's cringe.

Actually, then you should listen to it even more so that you realize your voice is not cringe.

Read it again and again and again off a piece of paper as it becomes your main thought because it's all repetition and see how it feels in your body.

So I always say when you're repeating a phrase or a mantra, you have to believe it in your body, you have to mean it in your mind and you have to feel it in your heart.

And so every time you say a statement, it's not just saying it, you're trying to believe it in your body.

What does it feel like when I believe that's true for me?

Like if I go to sleep believing I am waking up healthy, rejuvenated and rested, I feel strong, I feel sturdy, I don't feel like this anymore.

My body changes.

If I'm going to mean it in my mind i've got to focus on how powerful it is when i wake up with a really focused mindset and finally i've got to feel it in my heart i've got to feel what it feels like to live a day that starts off with health and abundance when you can do it in that way reading or listening to your own voice all of a sudden it starts to become programmed it's as simple as that it's not complicated that's so good i'm actually going to start doing it try it yeah and you whatever whatever affirmation whatever whatever you want to say and it's not like some i i always like to take away the mysticism of it it's not magic you're doing it anyway you already tell yourself i sucked at work today you're already telling yourself oh i'm i didn't work out hard enough today oh i forgot to do this today you're already doing it so you're just replacing it with what you actually want to think that actually makes you better you're it's it's not magic jay sheddy dude i could talk to you forever i know i love it

it was such a great conversation thank you so much you're going on tour yes which is so exciting tell me about on tour where can people also buy tickets Yes,

I'm going on tour for the first time ever with the podcast.

That's amazing.

Which I'm so excited.

I'll be interviewing special guests in 15 cities across the world.

You have inspired me, dude.

You've been doing it.

You have to do it.

It's so much.

I'm so excited about it because I know that there's people who listen to my podcast on purpose forget every week, every day.

And I'm like, imagine being in the room with me and a special guest.

asking questions, being present in the room.

We're going to have an interactive experience.

Just the idea that you already tune in.

Why not come in and tune in person?

And so you can go to jayshetty.me forward slash tour.

So that's jayshetty.me forward slash tour.

And I can't wait to see everyone.

I can't wait to just see the on-purpose community that we built over the last six years.

It's so inspiring.

And I love that you're trying new things.

I love that people get to see you in person.

And because you're in different cities as well, it allows other people that if they're in that city, they can go and watch you.

That's so amazing.

I can't wait.

I'm really excited.

Oh my God.

And if anyone wants to just follow you in general,

Jay Shetty across TikTok, Instagram, YouTube,

podcasts on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, and

all the apps.

Yeah, anyway, Jay Shetty.

There's only one Jay Shetty.

If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships.

People should be compassionate to themselves, but extend that compassion to your future self.

Because truly extending your compassion to your future self is doing something that gives him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life.

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This is an iHeart podcast.