Jared Freid & Jordana Abraham: Dating App Burnout? Do THIS 30-Day Challenge to Stop Wasting Time and FINALLY Meet the Right Person

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Okay, question.

What is the best and worst way to communicate with friends?

Obviously, messaging.

I mean, it's great, but it can go off the rails.

There have been times I opened up a group chat and saw 200 messages.

And by the time I caught up, I still didn't know what the plan was.

Well, WhatsApp can help.

First, you can message privately with everyone.

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It's time for WhatsApp.

Message privately with everyone.

Dating apps should be used like in the same way that fast food is.

I don't think you should say never ever eat fast food.

People have these like black and white views towards the dating apps.

I think they're great in moderation and you need to be controlling the way you use them.

You can't just be on it scrolling mindlessly.

There's a time and a place for dating apps and people should use them like when they make sense, when they can't be out there socializing, when they're really busy with work, but it shouldn't be the only tool in their, in their tool shed.

People are afraid to say, like, I'm just tired of them.

People look at dating as it's like on-off switch.

It's just like a part of your life.

Hang out with your friends who are in relationships once a month.

Join a fitness class.

Go out to eat once a week without your phone.

The app we have to realize is a crutch.

We have to acknowledge who these apps were created created for and by because they're not for you.

Most people listening are pretty social people.

You can do it.

The number one health and wellness podcast.

Jay Shetty.

Jay Shetty.

The one, the only Jay Shetty.

Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become the happier, healthier, and more healed.

I'm so excited because today I get to invite into the studio two people that I've had the pleasure of getting to know over the last few years.

I've been on their show like three times now, and I always have the best time with them.

I felt like we hit it off immediately and it's got more fun every time.

So it is an honor to have them on the on-purpose studio.

I'm talking about Jared Freed and Jordana Abraham, the hosts of the Hit Dating and Relationship podcast.

You up if you haven't subscribed already, make sure you go and do that.

They break down the confusing, chaotic, and hilarious world of modern dating, which I know all of you need a lot of help with.

Jared is a stand-up comedian and writer.

His work has been featured on Netflix and Comedy Central.

And Jordana is the co-founder co-founder of betches a digital media brand with a reach of over 40 million across platforms and a leading voice on dating self-development and modern relationships please welcome to on purpose jordana and jared great to be here thank you so much great to have you guys we're so excited what an intro yeah i mean you do everything you do everything right you know like i'm just sitting here listening to your intro i'm like man he's nailing it down just has it down like even when you introduce the podcast like this is the podcast for you know you you tell people what they're listening to.

I'm like,

I feel like I'm in like a, you know, a

real professional.

Yeah, this is a pro.

This is a pro.

You know, we are on a lot of podcasts.

This is a professional.

This is a pro.

Yeah, this is.

You guys are pros.

The tables have turned today, though.

Right.

I get to quiz you and make Jared feel uncomfortable.

Right.

That was always the

goal when you come on.

I'm like, how can I get Jay shit?

You mess with him a little bit.

A little bit.

And I love it.

And you nail it.

It's just always a surprise.

I mean, he always knows how to take your annoying questions and turn them into

and own them.

You own them and then you turn them.

I've said this to many people.

I just, I don't want to take over your show.

You are doing that.

I'm doing that right now.

And your audience is like, I hate this guy.

He won't shut up.

Let Jay do his thing.

But I have to say, what a great guy you are.

I, I, I, because I did this bit when you came on the show where I was like, Jay, can you give pep talks to people who are going through it?

And then I read this whole sad monologue about you about my life.

And it wasn't me saying it was me.

And I, but I, I was joking, but like, you know, sometimes sad stories are meant to be funny.

And you took it and you were like, you are enough.

And then I texted you later that day.

You texted me first.

Hey, man, had a great time.

And just remember, you are enough.

It's the sweetest text I have ever gotten in my entire life.

I want to make sure it's on camera on podcasts because I can't.

He's like, they're going to cut this.

Right.

Get rid of that sappy shit.

Let's talk about dating.

Yeah, I just have to say, because I, you know, sometimes you listen to people, you go, what are they like off camera?

That's like the, it is truly the nicest text I've ever gotten.

Yeah, I'm gonna send more of them now.

Please, it improved my whole day.

Yeah.

Or month, whatever.

I'm still talking about it.

The feelings mutual.

You guys have been so kind to have me on three times.

We have the best time ever.

And, and I, and I love the side of me you bring out.

I don't always get to show that.

I don't always get to show that fun, playful, energetic side on my platform.

So it's.

That's a part of me that I get to share with both of you.

And so you give me an opportunity to do that.

But let's always play.

You always are game.

That's the thing.

And I, you know, we appreciate that so much because some, you know, we talk about dating and relationships, which is like a very personal thing, you know, so and that's what we want to talk about today.

Yes.

Yes.

Because my audience, community, I've got groups of friends.

I've got so many people who've written in.

We've scoured the world to prepare for this podcast.

But the first thing I wanted to start off with is dating.

You guys know everything about it.

You're doing it, Jared.

You're not doing it anymore, but

as a part of your life.

What's your hot take on current dating?

Like, what's the take?

What's the viewpoint that you think is surprising you right now that's different right now on dating?

I think the negativity that's out there right now, while it's founded, like you can always be negative about dating and you'll find a million people that will help you.

You'll find a million people that will back you up and tell you how right you are for being negative about it.

But it's the least helpful thing for your dating life.

And it's not the thing that's that's going to get you on the first date.

It's not the thing that's going to make you a better dater.

It's the only thing that you can find other people to cheer you on for that actually makes your dating life worse.

Wow, that's a good one.

I like that.

Yeah, 100% agree.

Because I do these dating pep talks all the time.

And it's a joke.

It's a pointing out why that I heard a relationship and I heard this couple get in a fight.

And then I talk about how lucky you are to be single.

And I point that out.

And you see so many people that are just like, it's almost like crazy to me that they never thought of it.

Yeah.

Like being single is a good thing.

You're hopeful.

You're looking for to make your life better, you know?

And I think all you hear about is maybe that you're doing it wrong or do this or do that.

And it's like, whatever you're doing is fine.

You're you.

It's going to work out.

But I think the negativity that we see online, like, that's easy to do because it's like biting a mosquito bite.

It feels pretty good, but it's not really helping you.

That's a great perspective.

I was just talking to my, one of my producers.

She's in a long-distance relationship.

And she was saying every night she goes home right now, she turns on her favorite show and she just binge watches it.

And all of our reaction was like, oh, okay.

And she was like, I sit alone on the couch.

And she was like, but actually, this is the last time I'm ever going to get to do this.

So I'm loving it.

Like that mindset

of actually, oh, wow, like this is the last time ever.

It's just going to be me on my couch binge watching whichever show I want and looking at it positively

rather than the negative of that.

And I think that's, you're so right.

And I want to dive into that, but I I want to hear Jordan's first.

Yeah, I think going off of that, I think, you know, we talk about like, you know, no one wants to hear diet and exercise if for like, you know, fitness or losing weight.

But like, I think that I totally agree with Jared.

I think the diet and exercise of like dating is really like.

going into anything you're doing in the dating space with a good attitude and then having a full life outside of dating.

So it's not the only thing that you're focused on.

Because I do think attitude is like 70% of it.

Like I think it's such an underrated part.

I think so many people think if I just keep going on more dates, more is more, and I'm kind of there, but I don't want to be there.

I'm in a negative mindset.

I'm on the apps still.

I'm so annoyed.

I'm still on the apps.

You become, you, you go on the dates and you think you're actually trying, but you're, you're bringing not like a fun, exciting version of yourself that someone would want to date, someone with a full life, someone who just thinks someone would add to their already great life.

And you're kind of expecting someone to fill in what's missing.

And I think that's really what holds people back.

And they don't even realize realize they're doing it.

And when you're holding back, like more on that, just like when you're holding back and you're being negative, like

you're, you're not being your full self.

So you're not even bringing people into your world.

Like, you want, and like, we're not, we're not this like woo-woo podcast.

We're not there telling, like, there's nothing more annoying than like, cheer up from your married friend.

Oh, you'll find it when you're not looking.

It's like,

off, you know, like, that's not, that's not advice.

That's not helpful.

But it's like, the minute you give in to like, I got this great life.

I'm looking for someone to make it better.

I'm not looking for just anyone.

Then you start to have taste, you know, and that's something where people are so afraid to even like admit.

They go, I'm confused.

That's what you hear from people dating.

I'm confused.

No, you're turned off.

Change the wording.

Now it's powerful.

Now you have taste.

Now you have ownership over like, oh, I do like and dislike things.

I am looking for certain things in a partner.

Like, you know, living your full life, like when you say, these are the things I do, you're willing to have someone go, I don't do that.

And go, and you can go, good, get out of here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I like that.

So let's apply that to what everyone's saying right now, where there's this mass fatigue around dating apps.

You both hear it more than anyone, where every other person you speak to is just like, I'm sick of the dating apps.

I'm tired of the dating apps.

I hear it all the time as well.

How do you then apply that?

to the fatigue around dating apps.

So when people are saying to you, hey, I'm exhausted, you're not saying cheer up.

What do you say?

What are you saying?

I mean, I think dating apps should be used like in the same way that fast food is.

Oh, interesting.

Tell me.

I don't think you should say never, ever eat fast food.

You know, it's going to ruin your life.

And I think people have these like black and white views towards the dating app.

I think they're great in moderation and you need to be controlling the way you use them, just like anything else on the internet, just like Instagram or TikTok.

Like you can't just be on it scrolling mindlessly.

You can't just be on it swiping mindlessly.

I think there's a time and a place for dating apps and people should use them like when they make sense, when they can't be out there socializing, when they're really busy with work, but shouldn't be the only tool in their, in their tool shed, because just like with fast food, if you eat it all the time, you're going to feel sick.

If you eat it on a road trip every now and then, that's fine.

You're like, and indulge and have a great time, but like, don't make that the only, make that your entire lifestyle.

Yeah.

And we have to like acknowledge that.

Like, I think people are afraid to say, like, I'm just tired of them.

Like, you hear that, but like, if if you went to McDonald's every day, if you went to fast food every day and someone was like, yeah, I've eaten, you know, fast food every day for the last week.

I'm tired of it.

You would go, yeah, you should take some time off of that.

Yeah.

Like you would, we wouldn't look at that person and go, well, you're not trying.

Stop going for fast food.

Like people look at dating as this like on-off switch.

It's just like a part of your life.

And I don't know.

It's just, it's.

We like right now I'm doing, we've said on the podcast, we're doing a summer challenge.

Okay.

Okay.

Here's the summer challenge.

Delete the apps you're doing it too i'm doing it too i'm single i'm deleting all the apps deleted all the apps okay this is for june july august and how many apps is that for you 17 no i i was on one app at the time deleted it okay june july august that's the promise okay okay and then what's your plan the plan is uh hang out with your friends who are in relationships once a month.

Okay.

Make one plan a month with like Jordan and her and her husband, my brother and his wife.

Make a plan with someone who's married or in a relationship.

Then join a fitness class.

Do something different.

Do a different fitness class, whatever it is.

Go out to eat once a week, every Wednesday without your phone.

On your own.

On your own.

Put in your pocket.

Put your phone in your pocket.

Look up.

Because we're kind of like addicted to these things.

Like the app, we have to realize is a crutch.

It was made by male nerds to try and be social.

If you think about it, the app, you never get dumped on an app.

You never get broken up with.

You never hear a no.

It's swipe left.

That's a no from you.

Swipe right.

You either get a match right away or you get nothing.

And when you get nothing, what does your brain go?

Guess they haven't seen me yet.

That was invented by someone who didn't want to go up to someone in public and experience public failure.

Oh, that's good.

So we have to acknowledge who these apps were created for and by, because they're not for you.

Most people listening are pretty social people.

You can do it, but you, but sometimes we need to like create these little games like we're doing with this like challenge to get yourself out there because the phone is so addictive.

So, like, I go to dinner on a Wednesday, I sit at the bar and I look up.

That's it.

I'm not promising you a boyfriend.

It's nothing going, by the way.

That's it.

Great.

Great.

I have conversations.

I have stories.

I have experiences.

Hanging out with your married friends.

That is the, that's the answer.

Because, and i i speak from the guy perspective on the podcast like of course but i'm like i speak for myself we talked about not saying this anymore but we see we're not experts okay no one's a dating expert we are i'm just an expert my own feelings and my own experiences so when i talk on the show like i was thinking of like we have so many women who their response to like hang out with their married friends is like they don't know anybody they oh my friends husbands they don't know any of their friends they don't they never have a guy for me it's like first of of all, don't hang out with your married friends to get something from it.

Hang out with your married friends to hang with them and have a good time and be you.

Okay.

And if you do that, what you want from that experience is for the husband to go, oh, yeah, Jessica's pretty cool.

That's all you want.

Why does Coca-Cola still have ads?

So you think of Coca-Cola the first drink when you need a soda.

That's such a good point.

Same thing.

You want to make yourself Coca-Cola to your married friends because that husband does know people.

Yeah.

He is talking yeah but he man we don't care about dating and relationships that's why men don't listen to our podcast

you know like right now you're all see cola right right right right right they're going oh i guess i haven't thought of them lately but when if you make yourself the first thought in their brain when cool chick

comes up because it's gonna happen but that's the thing so when i hang out with like my brother and his wife and you know i'm doing that with his wife but my brother you know my brother's my brother but like you know if I go hang out with Jordan and her husband, like

he's going to, you know, he comes across.

I'm the first thought on it.

We'll see.

But I think.

The same person he's thinking about every day.

And these are like the things that don't go viral on this.

Yeah.

You know, you know.

That's a great point.

You know, negativity goes viral.

Salacious stories go viral.

Not, hey, go out with your married friends.

Well, it's like

lose ties, right?

Right.

Lose ties.

Who do we get that from?

Meg something.

Sorry.

Right.

But we've, we, we've, you know, our podcast, we've just collected all these experiences.

We hear the voices of so many people and how they're going through it.

And I'm not doubting that.

Yeah.

It's hard, but it's, that's also the fatigue element.

Yeah.

Dating apps just get you more, not better, more.

Right.

More intros, which are good, more breakups, more, more disappointment, you know, more conversations.

If you had more conversations a day, you're going to find more annoying people a day.

So of course you're going to have more stories that are negative.

Yeah.

So the fatigue is really, you know, the, yeah, the numbers of it all.

Yeah, I can't remember the exact math, but Tim Ferriss had broken it down.

He was like, for every hundred people, there's like five narcissists, one psychopath.

And so when you have like a million followers, you're going to have, you know, the same percentage of narcissists, psychopaths.

It's the same on a dating app.

Yeah.

Like I think I use sweet and low in my coffee.

It's like the strongest sweetener.

Everyone's going to tell me that I'm going to have a heart attack and I'm going to die.

I'm okay with that.

For a sweeter coffee, I'm okay.

But it, you know, dating apps are like sweet and low.

Like you're going to, it's really going to hit you.

You know, going to a bar and trying to meet someone new is like putting sugar in your drink.

It's not going to, you're only going to get a, you're going to need a lot more sugar.

Yeah.

But it's going to, it's going to be a better quality drink.

And you said this, it's like, no, you don't need a dating app in the summer.

No.

right?

You don't eat it in the summer.

Right.

You are out in the summer.

You're taking vacations in the summer.

You're hanging with friends in the summer.

Yeah.

Hence, you're doing the challenge now.

That's why I'm doing the challenge.

What's the complete challenge?

Lay it out again so they have a little bit of a challenge.

You can do the summer dating challenges, delete the apps, just get off them.

We'll come back in September.

Yeah.

Yes.

Doesn't have to be forever.

No, it doesn't have to be forever.

So you can never eat McDonald's.

It's the end of the season.

You got to wait for the next season.

Wait for the next season and see how it goes.

We've tried the apps.

You hate them.

So let's try something new.

Go to dinner once a week by yourself, phone in pocket.

Don't take out your phone.

Make it a challenge to yourself.

Go to a new fitness class just because that gets you out and active and doing something new.

Hang out with your married friend and their husband, married friend and their wife once a month.

Make a plan.

It doesn't have to be a vacation.

It doesn't have to be anything crazy.

Just hang out with them and have a good time.

And I do think.

The feedback I'm going to give is like, if you come to me and go, well, I didn't work.

I think you've looked at it the wrong way.

And we're on a wellness podcast.

We can think of the intrinsic value of hanging out with your friends.

I hope the listenership can understand that.

Because with dating, some people go, well, where's my boyfriend?

And I go, you don't sound like someone I would ever want to date.

Well, then again,

at the end of the challenge, you go back on the apps and you're a more invigorated, more energized version of yourself who's not saying

who's not saying, hey, as their opening line, because you're more, you know, know, you're, you're putting more energy into the interactions that you're having.

Yeah, I do that like once a week, like once, once every two weeks, I have mentally been so disciplined and focused on work, working out, eating right, all the rest of it, that I need a day where I don't care.

And so usually Saturday night is that day.

I have this, there's this, I have no idea how this place.

I don't want to, no, I don't want to get them sued, but I don't know.

I have no idea how this place exists.

There's this place in LA called Mr.

Charlie's.

It is vegan McDonald's.

If you go outside, it looks like McDonald's.

They have an upside-down frown.

They have a smiley face.

That's so funny.

From the outset, it's yellow and red.

Like, it literally looks like McDonald's.

I, as someone who grew up going to McDonald's, but now I'm vegan, I don't eat meat, have been searching for vegan McDonald's my whole life.

I've now found it.

And the fries taste the same, the chicken nuggets taste the same, the mayo tastes the same, the lettuce tastes the same.

So Saturday, usually once every two weeks, I will eat chicken nuggets, fries, burger, whatever it is.

But it's that feeling of like, come Monday morning, I'm reinvigorated to work out again.

Exactly.

I have my discipline again because I've allowed my brain this space to go there.

Yes.

And you probably enjoy it so much more than if you had it.

If you had it every day,

you wouldn't feel great.

Yeah, exactly.

Right.

One thing I've been getting a lot, though, and this kind of comes from the point that Jared was talking about.

Right now, I have so many single female friends that I think are amazing that I'd love to introduce to good men.

And now it's hitting me right now that I've not thought of Jared before.

So now I need to

hang out.

Now I need to change that up.

And Jared, I've got.

I'm like, you weren't friend of mine.

You weren't Coca-Cola for me.

You didn't come hang out.

I've messed up.

But I feel like I have at least, let me think, I have at least three to five.

female friends who I think are awesome, like genuinely think are awesome.

They're the, oh yeah, she's really cool.

Right.

Like they're smart, they're thoughtful, they're beautiful, all the rest of it.

And I actually struggle to think of single men I know.

And that's not because I'm not saying that they're not good men out there.

I'm saying I don't know many single men.

As a married man, I think most of my friends are married or in long-term committed relationships.

And they're just struggling out there as well.

What are you seeing from a woman's perspective?

Because to a lot of them, what they're experiencing is we're strong, confident, ambitious women.

And a lot of men are intimidated by that.

Yes.

I think this is a conversation where I'm seeing all over the place now.

I think it's like a very, it feels like a very hot, hot topic now to kind of look at the available single woman.

I totally agree with you.

I know so many amazing single women.

I really don't know that many.

I only know one amazing single guy.

No, I really don't know that many

otherwise.

And I do think part of it is women are much more likely to want to date men who have the same education level as them or higher or make the same amount of money of them as higher or higher.

And I think men are not necessarily looking for that.

So I think there's a bigger pool for men of women that they'd be interested in.

So I do think women, I don't want to, I don't like the term dating up or dating, you know, but I think like when you just look at objective things like education or money, a lot of women don't want to date people who are less educated or have less money than them.

To add on to this, I'm sorry to interrupt.

The men go by one thing.

Am I attracted?

Yeah.

That's it.

That's the checklist.

Right.

Well, that

means that could be

that's infinite.

Right.

What you're talking about is a checklist that women do.

Are they safe?

Are they educated?

Are they they have the ability to like are they hard to work or are the good dad?

These are all things that they're thinking about like and there's and there's right and there's fewer I think men who meet that criteria for women who are maybe I don't want to say more selective but are just looking at things in a different way and I think as opposed to how things were 20 or 50 years ago more women are college educated than men.

Women are making more money than they ever have before.

And so I think the pool, especially as you get older, of men who are at your level or higher, if that's what you're looking for in terms of like those things, is just smaller.

So I think it just becomes like a numbers game.

And I don't know if the solution is for people to be more open-minded or if the solution is, you know what I mean?

Cause I think there's still a little bit of a double standard around a man who makes less money than his wife or a man that has less education than his wife.

So, I think that, I mean, I would hope that as the times change, people are a little bit more open-minded in both directions.

Yeah.

And I think also, like, we do this all the time.

We, we've talked about this.

Where are the single men?

And, like, you just said it.

I've said this a million times.

I don't know, even as a single man.

Like, I don't know.

No, I've known a single guy for you.

I don't even know where they would be.

Like, I actually, it's become like kind of a joke.

on the show of like, where are these guys?

Because if there's all these women, but also this dating and relationships is a topic for women.

They get together to talk about this.

This is something that men just don't generally get together and talk about.

So it might not be as you know, in the

hemisphere for me, you know, like to that level, right?

It's, I think, dating and relationships seems more like a priority for a lot of women.

Just societally, they've been told that that's something they should be thinking about from, you know, 21 years old is like what their future is and who their husband's going to be and what they're getting.

I don't think men are given that pressure.

If a man goes home for the holidays, he's asked about his job, he's asked about what's going on at, at, at work, he's not necessarily most of the time being asked about who he's dating.

I think that's a question that women are getting a lot more and that they're much more invested in finding a partner than a lot of men are around, at least men in a similar age group.

So wait, Jared, you're saying you don't have lots of single guy friends.

No, not at all.

That's the thing.

Like, I'm not rolling with a group.

Like, when you hear a woman get broken up with, like, the first thing that like a lot of their friends do, they're like, I know these other single women.

Like, Like they'll try and like fix them up with single women to go out with.

They're like their new Miranda, Carrie, you know, Samantha crew.

I've never even heard of that for a guy.

Like, oh, you got to meet my other guy friend.

And even you were like, hey, because I moved to Del Rey Beach.

I'm in Florida.

And Jordana is like, oh, my friends live down there.

Do you want to like hang out with them?

You want a new friend?

Right.

Do you want a new friend?

I was like, no, I don't want a friend.

I want to go be lonely at a coffee shop and look at the sun.

You know, like, I, you know, like, I don't want like, and it's weird because that's my initial reaction.

Where are you?

I also want friends, but all the friendless men right there.

But I have friends, but I swear, I got friends, you know, like I sound very defensive.

I, but, like, I, I don't know.

Like, I've thought about this.

Like, it is the one thing where I'm like, the numbers aren't this off.

Yeah.

But I don't know, because I even like my college friends, mostly married, you know, a couple divorces in there.

High school friends, I got a lot of those still, mostly married.

Yeah.

But I don't really, you know, I'm 40, I'm single, and we just,

we just don't hear from, you know, like, you know,

I know I'm not alone.

Yeah, yeah, no, I was, I was talking to a couple of guys I know who are probably, yeah, late 30s, early 40s as well.

And they were single.

And I sent them a couple of pictures of certain girls that I know that are friends of mine that are looking and, you know, all that kind of stuff.

And it was like, immediately, it was the point that you said, immediately he was like, nah, she's not, you know.

Not for me.

Not for me.

And it was an attraction thing but it was so like instant right whereas a woman will say like tell me more about her totally right yeah and it was also like i wouldn't necessarily say that

he was out of her league he just felt he had more choice listen let me well i i'll i'll go back and

let's talk about

right because i don't think that's why men are saying i have all these choices Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors.

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thanks for taking a moment for that now back to the discussion Like I think that's something that's easy to like put on single men to like hate on them.

No, so I'm asking I would say that I mean I've said this on the show many like guys,

there's a pro and con.

There's, there's, life is gravity, right?

The thing is, a guy will not go out with you unless he's attracted to you.

That's just no, no other questions.

Just like your friend.

Is it that black and white?

It's that black and white.

I'm saying attracted or not?

Or is it like, she's, I don't know.

No, there's, it is, men are like beats.

We see the outline of a woman.

We go, yeah, like the idea of like, will it matter if I wear, you know, these types of socks?

No, men don't even notice.

We just see, I'm, I'm attracted to that thing.

And so like when, when a guy says he's like not attracted, not going, that's, that's a good thing because you're not on a, all women can understand that if you're on a date with a guy, if he left the house, you know, one thing, he's attracted to you.

That's a beautiful thing, too, if you think of it that way.

You go, I got one thing out of the way.

If I'm on a date with a girl, I don't know why she's there.

I don't know if she was forced.

She thought she should.

If she didn't go, she's not trying.

That's a great way of

you know like i don't know like i i don't know if we i could get married to a woman then on our wedding day she's like and at first i didn't think he was anything i was nice you're like you're gonna have a you can get a foot in the door right well it's nice and it's bad like i don't want to hear that my wife at first was like oh

you know like but that happens you know look at all the our story page for all these women getting married it's well at first i wasn't into him and then he came over to me and he touched me with his clammy hands and i was like oh i guess maybe i'll go on a date like it's all this like horrific tale about how this guy like magooed his way into this woman.

And it's like, that's nice for her.

That's a fun Marvel, you know, story to tell, like you're, you're, you know, you're a beginning, but like.

Well, I think women are also more like, I can work with this.

Right.

Even if someone is not, I think women are more open to dating men who aren't exactly the perfect way that they want them to be as soon as they meet them.

Yeah, then I can change what they wear and I can.

Well, yeah, they're, you know, they can, yeah, they can, they can work they can work with this or they cannot I don't think men are thinking that and in some ways that makes men more romantic they're like I'm not even if I don't like you just as you are I'm not gonna commit to you and women are like if I like the bones yeah I can work with them well it's it's that age-old idea of men don't want women to change right but they will and women want men to change but they won't exactly like it's that balance of like right men are just I mean like we always hear about like the Disney princess or like how the Disney Disney movies convince women they're going to find a prince charming.

And that is very true.

There's a male version of that, you know, where men have been told in every coming of age movie that this, this woman is just going to show up and she's into video games and she's cool and she gets it.

Every coming of age movie is some chick who's like, oh, like giving guys crap.

And like, she's like this dream version.

And you're kind of told, and this guy falls in love.

So you're kind of told that like someone's going to come along.

all of a sudden you're going to get it yeah and you're going to want this monogamous lifestyle

and you know i don't think either is fair yeah you know and but the looks thing it's everyone has a type everyone's into something every there's a butt for every seat i mean i always say this sounds gross but like everyone's someone's foot like there's men out there masturbating to feet you know and they there's so many men masturbating to feet that there's a hyperlink on the porn sites that take you directly to feet so but that's why you are someone's foot well that's why ugly is not even like hot or attractive is not even a thing right but i'm saying that i don't think think that it's yeah it's not like i don't think the key to doing well and dating is being hot i think it is really about your attitude and like again how happy you are i think a happy person and like a again there's gonna no matter what you look like there's gonna be someone who's attracted to you but i think if you are if someone's someone could be attracted to you physically and you could go on the date and you bring a bad attitude and you seem unhappy with your life and you seem unhappy unhappy and you seem like you're burnt out just from being there and you're feeling is like he's not oh he's not even going to text me again like i think that that is self-sabotaging but you feel that like as a listen jordana took my disgusting speech and made it sound a lot better

i i

it is um you feel that on a date yeah i go out and a lot of you i've been on dates with women who are like the i've had it woman like and then you got to like turn into a clown you got to be like no no got your got your got your got your ear like got your nose like you have to like try and make them cheer them up a little bit to like go, hey, we're going to be on a date that's not going to be disgusting and horrible.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, so you can feel when someone's like, I've seen it all.

Yeah.

And it's hard to get.

And even if you feel you have, the point is to have the attitude that you're talking about.

Right.

Even if you have been.

And you can't tell someone to do that.

Like we can talk about it for days.

Like, you got to figure that out.

Well, I think, I think the challenge is going back to the part about being attractive.

We think being attractive means being attractive to everyone.

Right.

Right.

We only feel hot if everyone thinks we're hot.

And the reality is no one feels that way because not everyone's going to find you attractive, no matter how, wherever you are on the spectrum of it or however you feel about it.

It's the fact that if someone can go out there, be confident, put the best version of themselves out there, you're giving the person who actually finds you attractive the chance to do that.

We've all met people who are attractive that turned us off with their attitude.

Totally.

That's like massive.

I mean, I think we've met people that we're like maybe borderline attracted to, but are seem so happy and so confident and so happy to be there

that it makes them more attractive.

I think that there's really like, you can't really quantify that, but it definitely, I'm sure it could sway you too.

Like someone who you're attitude, because attitude is everything.

I mean, like you get there and you're like, oh my God.

Again, to go back to like the, you know, the, the coming of age movie, the, the, the chick who gets it, you know, you go.

oh my god and she's cool and is fun and is like you know you go oh my god everything's here as opposed to being on a date where it's like, okay,

you know, show me you're not a dick.

Yeah.

Right.

And you're like, okay, I've, I've seen this before, you know, like,

I'm not going to be the one that, because what happens is if someone's miserable on a date, you're like, if I do make this person happier, now I've made promises to them.

You know, now I've, you know, love bomb them or like, and not even, I'm not saying you do that to cheer them up, but you go, now you've like put on a performance myself.

Like I'm performing.

Yeah.

I'm not even getting to be the real me here because I was just spending the whole time trying to get this person to be happy.

And now I've faked it.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, I'm just going to say, I think that also that attitude thing also helps you once you're in a relationship.

I think everyone thinks like, okay, once I like lock it down, then it's over.

But relationships are their own level of work.

And I think the best relationship advice I've ever seen is that if you look for what's missing from your partner, if you look for what they're not doing, what they could be doing more of, that's like going to be the reality that you're living in.

If you're looking at what they're doing well, what they do better than everyone else, like you're going to feel really lucky and you're going to feel really happy.

So I think attitude just brings you, not even when you're single, but once you're like in the relationship, once you're like working through that, once you're changing into a relationship that's a long-term marriage or just a long-term relationship, I think that's the attitude is something you really need to.

keep working on and always be trying to be in a place of looking for what's working and looking for what's good, whether it's your own life or your partner.

Yeah, I think this alpha male high-value woman conversation on TikTok, Instagram, podcast has put this pressure for women to think you've got to look like a model.

Right.

You've got to look great in these clothes without clothes, whatever, right?

There's that pressure for women.

And the pressure on men is you better be earning multiple six figures.

You better drive an amazing car.

You better have a great future.

And everyone's looking at both of those things going, I can't live up to either of them.

Right.

Right.

Do you see that?

Well, the beauty of being a man is that I don't think, and this is where I feel lucky, is that when it comes to dating, maybe I'm not making that money, but I don't think I have to like do the right thing by other men.

Like I never feel judged by other men for how I date.

And I think when we hear from women that are dating, they're always wondering, am I doing it right?

Is this the right text?

Is this the right way to go?

And it's almost like, who are you asking?

Who's to say?

And I think when it comes to those conversations of like you know who we answer to like i'm i don't feel the pressure with relationships you know i can feel it from the other side of like

hey what should i wear for a first date you know like when we get that question like they're asking us as if we know we're talking you know like and it's like what should we wear for the date what do you say whatever makes you feel comfortable and confident and that's again to what jordana said the diet and exercise of answers like no one wants to hear that yeah well and but you have women that write in about this and you're like that comes from a place of like, please tell me I'm doing this right.

Right.

People want rules.

People want like the secret sauce, the formula.

And really, it's about you and what works for you.

And that's, again, like a less flashy

answer, but that's that's the truth.

There is no one way that everyone should act.

There's no one kind of person that everyone should be interested in.

It's like about what makes you the best version of yourself.

And everyone is a different person.

Every time I hear someone say the phrase high value, I'm like, that person is screwed.

Awful.

Yeah.

Just awful and screwed.

They're thinking of the wrong thing.

They're thinking of the internet.

Right.

I think.

And that's, that's the issue, I think, with modern dating, modern, and it's why it's so hard to sort of like appreciate the things about your partner that you really love because you're seeing, you're scrolling all the time and you're seeing someone else's partner.

I think of the pookie and jet thing.

Like someone else's partner surprised them with this bag or someone else's partner is taking them on these crazy dates.

And it's, and you look at your partner and you're like, where's my crazy date?

Where's my like spontaneous surprise trip?

And I think that, again, you're not even thinking about, is that even something I want?

Is that even something that like works for me?

You're just constantly comparing.

And before you really didn't get that, you didn't get like the behind the scenes of every single couple's highlights of like the best moments that they have together.

No one's putting their fights up.

No one's putting the like stupid argument that they had before bed on the internet.

So you're not seeing what's not working for other people until you see the divorce post and then you kind of get to go through the back.

That's true.

The back.

Yeah, it's like, it's almost like 25 years ago, ago, you spoke to less people, but you knew them really deeply.

Yes.

And today you are exposed to more people, but you know them in a really shallow surface way.

And so if you had four friends, you knew who was on the verge of divorce, who was having a tough time, because you all opened up and you were helping each other out with their problems.

Whereas today, you're seeing someone who just took that trip for content.

Like it wasn't even, it wasn't even a trip.

It was content.

And they went away and they got this sponsored trip.

And now it's like, oh, well, that husband does spontaneous stuff or whatever it may be.

Right.

And you think there's something lacking in your relationship when there's not, you're only, again, you're only seeing this one side of it and you don't really know these, these people that well.

You were talking about messaging there and people asking you what messages should we write.

How much are you hearing about people getting ChatGPT to write their messages back?

And how are you both feeling?

More and more.

It's crazy.

It's funny because, again, this goes back to I want to be right.

I don't want to do this wrong.

So let me go to ChatGPT and it will tell me an answer that I don't have to think about anymore.

Well, listen, I think that there's some merit in ChatGPT and helping as a tool, like anything else.

Like I don't think if you, I don't think you should use it, not even read it and send it, but I think it's like we did a, an episode where we did, someone writes in their breakup text.

They're texting someone after three dates to say they're not interested.

And then we have ChatGPT write the same text.

Chat GBT is better.

Not a bad job.

Yeah.

It's a little more mature.

It's a little, well, it's like, is it as personal?

Probably not.

I think you should edit their thing, but i think if it can help people act like a nicer better member of society or at least give them somewhere to start i'm okay with you're a fan of it for breakups i wouldn't want to be told i asked for a divorce with chat gpt but i think you know if they read the first draft and then someone else edited it i mean well the thing we have to admit to is that we've been doing a version of chat gpt from the minute dating apps started listen When you're texting, you are writing your own script.

You are being the person you would like to be.

That's not you on the fly.

That's not you on improv or in the moment.

How many times have you been in a conversation or an argument and then you went home and you go, I wish I said that.

I wish I had this.

You never do that about a text.

Text, you go, you say exactly how you want to say it, the way you want to say it.

The reality is, and our podcasts, we always say we want to make you a better buyer.

We're not going to fix dating.

I get put in the position of speaking for men and it sounds very icky.

I'm letting you know exactly what a man is feeling because I'm 10% away from the guy you're dating.

So I'm telling you what's going on in his head.

It's up to you to like take that information and do the best you can and waste less time.

So this goes to like the texting and chat GPT and like, listen, if you want to blame ChatGPT for your relationship problems, you're fed.

It's just the truth because right now you're texting with someone who's Googling the movie that you said you loved.

Yeah, or the quote that you said that they didn't fully understand.

Right.

They've been doing that since day one.

Yeah.

Send me a movie quote that makes you laugh every time.

If you had none off the top of your head, but you thought they were hot, I'll go find a movie quote.

You know, like that's just the, that's just how it's going, you know?

So all this is to say, like ChatGPT or someone googling what to text you, you got to get in person.

Right.

Well, you've got to have a date.

It's like the same, the same advice that we have for the apps.

It's like the apps and chat GBT.

They're both tools.

Should you be exclusively communicating with ChatGPT?

Should you be exclusively only dating on the apps?

No.

Is it something you can use when it makes sense?

Yeah, right.

So, or at least to help.

How quickly have you realistically seen people move from the apps to an in-person date?

How quick do you like it to be, and how quick is it realistically?

I hate when someone's trying to game the app.

So if someone matches with me and they go, let's skip the small talk and go on a date, I don't want to date that person.

That's my

because I don't want to waste my time out.

We're on a dating app because that gets you the

first few conversations that make you excited for the day.

You're trying to verify that, right?

It's a verifying process.

But when people say that, I'm like, what's the catch here?

This was so easy for you to go out.

How much time?

How much do you value your day?

You don't value your day.

Why would I want to go out with you?

But the problem is, someone always is going to come in and go, well, I hate pen pals.

But that's not a good answer.

That's the answer is nuanced and gray.

If you're texting for six days before a plan is made, yeah, that's a lot long.

That's too long for me.

Too long for you, right?

For me.

But like, I don't know what someone needs to feel safe.

I don't know what someone needs to feel excited.

You should feel safe and excited.

That's, that's the two rules I would give to someone to go on a first date.

Do you feel safe?

Are you excited?

Yeah.

And so however long that takes.

How long does that take?

That's not up to me to say.

That person saw you and felt safe and excited in that night.

Or they wanted to screw me over and steal my, you know, my identity.

Yeah, you know, he felt safe and excited, but no you.

Can you pay for my oil change?

Right.

We gotta.

We've gotten that.

You know,

we've gotten messages where, you know, the guy says, I'm so excited to, you know, I had such a great time.

I'd love to go out again.

And then the woman replies, me too.

Would you mind paying for my oil change?

Right.

You're going to meet crazies, you know, like this is what happens.

You put yourself out there.

You got to play in traffic.

You don't want to get hit.

And sometimes you get hit by a weirdo.

Yeah.

You know, so it's.

But that's a good story.

You know, you've lived.

Right.

Exactly.

Let's tell the tale.

Yeah, it's a great story.

But dating, the idea of like, when should you, how should you, we are not here to say.

Like, I, I think that if anyone's trying to tell you their four rules for dating or, you know, you should never this, I think they're trying to sell a book.

You know, we did this to.

make light and have fun about a subject that dating for some people, they're killing it everywhere else.

And this is the hardest thing in their life.

That's crazy.

And I, when I first started talking about dating, like as a guy, I didn't realize the gravity of it for some people.

For me, it was always fun.

And I mean, that should tell every woman out there, like every guy is like, they just think it's fun.

They don't think it's the most, like, it's as serious as maybe you're coming at it.

This isn't every conversation they're having.

This isn't podcasts they're listening to.

So.

Again, like when I first started doing this, you go, oh, this is like hilarious.

Like, oh, let me hear your dating problems.

And then you start meeting people and you're like, oh, shit, like, this is like real stuff.

Yeah.

You know, like, it is, they're doing great in their career, their friends, their family.

And then they're like,

what?

What's going on here?

How is this happening?

Yeah.

Jordana, how are you feeling about Jared's dating?

Like, how am I doing?

Yeah.

What's my problem?

As is wrong.

No, no, maybe not a problem.

Jared, I mean, like a lot of the men.

out there that

we talked about earlier, like has a lot of options.

And sometimes I think that's almost like a lot of the issue with today's dating world is that,

yeah, especially for men who aren't, you know, successful men.

Right.

Successful, high, high-value men.

No, I'm joking, but like, I'm not.

But if you'd like to be doing better, please follow me on Instagram.

I'd like to be doing better.

Yeah.

No, I think, I mean, I think people don't want to talk about this because it feels icky and it feels unfair.

But I think that women are a lot of the times they're constrained by one, societal norms of that they should be, they're more pressured to settle down earlier.

And two, biological realities is that in that the older you are as a woman, the harder it is to have children.

And so I think that there's

a freedom that men have where they're not constantly thinking about dating against that timeframe.

And again, it feels like an icky conversation.

It feels like something that shouldn't be true, but it is true.

So I think that men do have more options and in a lot of ways, especially if you're like doing well in your career and

you're in a city like New York, let's say.

And so I think that sometimes you can be a little paralyzed by choice.

And men will end things before the next step.

You know, men will go, this is okay,

but I don't know if I want to go through the work.

Like I'll say men, me, I'll speak for myself.

I have ended things before the next step because I'm like, is this the next place of life?

Like, am I ready for this next phase of life?

It's not about the relationship.

It's about.

Do I want to do the work?

Do I want the responsibility?

And I have a lot of envy and high regard for people in serious relationships.

Like that takes a lot of confidence.

It takes a lot of like

stress and work that I have gone against.

I've said, well, I'm going to put my life into, you know, stand up in comedy and, you know, my work, which is an easy excuse for me.

Yeah.

I also, it's my avoidance of like this next thing of life that first few months of dating, you can be, you're all potential.

You know, you get past that, you're living in the reality of who you are.

And like, I think that's what a lot of men deal with is like, I'd rather be potential than the reality than deal with the reality.

Is it the reality or isn't then commitment?

Commitment is reality.

I like commitment.

Like, I, I, I think it's commitment to like the broader thing.

Like to me, when I think of like the next step in relationship, I'm like, it's everything.

It's house.

It's.

family, it's kids.

You know, like it gets way farther ahead than maybe women think we're thinking.

I hear you on that.

Like that resonates with me.

It's one of the reasons why we haven't had kids yet was because I was excited to be with my wife to get married.

Right.

But my career took over and then my wife's career took over.

And that was, so it's weird how you can have that at different phases.

So I can relate to what you're saying.

Yeah.

But on the children level, we're like, I want to have kids for sure.

But I mean, we've been together now for 12 years and married for nine.

And for me, the focus was I'm getting to build and I'm doing what I love.

And I don't want to end up feeling like I'm not paying attention to this young, beautiful child that I brought into the world.

Right.

And I'll, and I'll do it when I can.

And I feel like that's a very, feels like a very masculine trait.

And so you're, you're feeling the same.

I can, like, the way you're talking, I'm like, I can relate to everything you're saying.

It's just I'm married.

That's, that's the only, I've taken on that commitment.

I feel good about that one.

And we're around the same age.

Yeah.

I think like there's good and bad everything, as we said before.

Like our parents, like that may have gotten married young, you go, well, I would never do that for me.

and they had kids young and then we kind of were given the ability to like push those things off yeah

and again there's positive to that you get to build your career but then you get so precious with your life yeah that you're like almost you become too picky too choosy too totally too precious with doing walking forward

and what a lot of men will do like women will break up after they've tried again and again yeah men will break up before the the next step.

And that's why a lot of men have the one that got away.

I don't, you don't hear from women with the one that got away a lot.

You hear from men, oh, I could have been married to her.

I could have been married to her.

I've said that about many people I've dated.

And that's why it's like, you know, it's funny when you see these TikToks that are so angry and so the negativity I talked about in the beginning.

It's not as personal as it looks the way they're talking about it, even though it's personal to them.

Like I know from the male side, it's never been that someone's not worth it or not enough or not, you know, someone that I could have been with.

It was always my own.

I was thinking, you know, I, I, there's a, Tony Kornheiser is a writer.

He, I've heard him say this line, the key of me.

We all live in the key of me.

You know, when you write a story, you write it about yourself.

So it's like, I think what a lot of men are going through is the key of me.

And it's not as personal to the women that are feeling like, oh, he has so much choice.

Or I wasn't high.

He thought he could do better.

He thought he could do better.

It's all, that was always fraudulent to me.

I've never heard it that well articulated.

That's really interesting to hear.

Some say I'm a well-articulated person.

My mom says that all the time.

No, I mean that.

I mean that.

I don't think I've heard it put that way before.

And I can resonate with it so strongly at different ways in my life.

I think, right.

It's a very...

It's an ideology that I get.

Yeah.

And it's for all levels of life.

I mean, you talk about kids, you know.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

I think that's just a man's mind is like, yeah, if you talk to me about kids at 30, I would have been so scared.

Right.

Like, I would have just be like, oh my God, I don't think I could be a dad.

Right.

Like, that's how I genuinely felt.

Right.

Whereas now I'm 37.

I was like, I think about kids a lot.

Right.

That's just a shift that I've been through

in my own mind, you know, where at one point, if you asked me, I would have been like, yeah, I'd be fine without them.

And now it's like, it's a part of something that I want.

And it's such a, whether it's age, maturity, biology, finances, I don't know.

But there is a sense of, that feeling of, yeah, it's not really about the other person.

I've always known my wife would be make an amazing mom.

That's like, of course, not even the conversation.

Well, we get so many emails that are like, he ended it and I wasn't looking to marry, get married.

That's always the response.

Women write in, I wasn't, it's not like I said I wanted to get married.

And it's like, it's really, you know, kind of like demeaning towards the men they're dating because a lot of women don't think that men have the emotional intelligence to like think that far ahead.

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And back to our episode.

I don't know if it's demeaning.

I think women are like, why don't you just give this a chance?

Right.

Why don't we see where it can go?

And we don't have to get like

yes.

Why Why don't we like, if a woman who's dating a man for three months,

and he'll, he'll break up before they're like in a relationship.

And I think there's this frustration of like, I'm not asking you to marry me right and to commit to forever right now, but why can't you keep dating me or like really, really fully commit?

I guess it's demeaning to both sides.

He's thinking way far ahead.

Right.

Way farther ahead than she would even imagine.

And he's also not trusting her to be able to be told that like he's ending it.

You know, I, I, I'm

okay

if they date for three years and then don't get married, right?

Yeah, yeah, and I, I, so it goes, we're not giving each other enough credit, basically, right?

We're not giving each other enough credit that, oh, wait, he's actually thinking 25 years from now, right?

And we're not trusting that she's confident enough to like to handle a break, handle a breakup in five years.

Again, both sides of that equation, I feel bad for.

Like, if someone got dumped after five years and never got married, thought they were, I'd be like, yeah, that sucks.

Right.

But women have agency too.

And i think you see a lot of those stories and you don't get the other side which is also that like yeah if you're dating someone for five years and you've been looking to get married and they and and they're not marrying you you can leave also at any time right that's the credit you're not giving the woman right of that like if you're not giving her what she wants she can leave right yeah fair yeah it's so it's so interesting right like what what you're both doing which i really appreciate is it's almost like if we were able to verbalize this stuff to the person that we're talking to right much harder it's so much harder but it would transform everything because you'd actually be able to hear someone's heart.

Like you'd actually be able to hear it and go, wow, I didn't realize you were even looking at it from that really thoughtful perspective.

I always have so much joy when a couple says they listen to our podcast together because what you're saying is so true.

This is all easy for us to say from the sidelines.

It is so easy for us to say.

This is simple.

Oh, I can give advice on everyone else's relationship.

I know exactly what I should do.

When I'm in it, I'm like,

I'm a bumbling idiot.

But when I hear a couple listens to our podcast together, I'm like, we're talking for them.

Like, it's almost easier to listen than it is to like put these into words.

And I'm like, man, they must be doing okay.

Like, not to give ourselves too much credit, but I don't even think it's.

Well, they're having these conversations.

And kind of like what we said before, it's like, I do think when women break up with men, they're like, please change, please change, please change.

And then they don't change.

And then finally they break up with them.

And I think a lot of men are maybe more than women afraid to have a lot of these conversations.

And so are kind of just like secretly thinking about like if they should leave.

And then women always feel like they're blindsided.

That's true.

That's true.

Absolutely.

Men are thinking about it for six months before I do anything.

Yes.

And the woman's like, what do you mean?

Yeah, and you know, you've done all for perfect.

Right.

Because any woman that breaks up with it with her boyfriend will tell you, and I kept asking him not to stop getting drunk.

And I kept asking him to stop doing this and this and this.

And he just wouldn't change.

And I really wanted it to work.

And you just don't really hear that from men when they're breaking up with them.

No, no, no, no, no.

It just wasn't working.

And no one ever asked me after a break what happened.

Yeah.

No one's

Duranna does.

But generally, like my male friends, they're just like high-fiving me on the way to a dating app.

Yeah.

You know, like, and if I had to explain what happened, it would just sound like I just gave up.

Yeah.

You know, like, which isn't, you know, something I'm proud of, you know, but it's not something I ever have to really deal with.

So would you say you're not looking for a long-term, committed, loving relationship?

No, I am.

That's the crazy thing.

Now you're confusing me.

Well, no, I am, but I'm, you know, I'm afraid of it being.

What are you afraid about?

If I was to be really honest about it, I'm afraid of making my choices someone else's problem.

Or are you afraid of making the wrong choice?

Right.

Also.

And then you make the wrong choice.

Well, you make the wrong choice with the wrong person.

Right.

But I do think I know my taste enough at this point to know who I get along with.

And again, like, I think a lot of guys, I'm not a soulmate guy.

I'm not a soulmate guy either.

Like, I don't think, I just think you can make it work with like a lot of people.

I agree with that.

And, but they all are very similar types, you know, similar type of personality and, and

thinking and worldview, those types of things.

But I, I do think, you know, I blame stand up and doing comedy, you know, and the career I chose, but that's not, you know, that's not a really good reason.

But I do think the fear of like,

you are, someone else has like, I, if I fail, I fail on my own.

Like, that's really easy for me.

Like, I can sit at home and bury myself in it.

I, I give a lot of credit to like,

you're married and you're starting a business or you're doing things and you got kids that you got to like talk to and they go, what happened?

You know, the kids asked, what happened?

Are you kidding me?

I can't even imagine what happened with the big deal.

You know, we didn't get it.

Like, what do you say to a kid?

I don't know.

It's scary.

And I think, I think you, you mentioned something a lot that a lot of men feel, but maybe don't articulate is that it is much more like their ability to commit is a lot more tied to how secure they feel financially how secure they feel in their careers I don't think I think I mean obviously women care about their careers and how they're doing financially but I don't think I think most women will say I can date in any phase of my career trajectory I don't need to be established in order to get married I don't need to be established in order to to have children I think men are much more like I cannot fully go there unless I feel like I could take care of a family.

Right.

And if we go back to that high value douchey conversation, like what makes a guy high value is like career established, safe, providing, providing, you know, like and doing okay.

I think that that's why we talk about dating as vulnerably and as honestly as that's what this is right now.

It's good.

And I think people listening, like when we talk about dating, it's like, I like when I hear people just say, oh, good.

Like I'm not sitting here alone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dealing with that.

But like, no, long-term relationship.

Yeah, I'm looking for that.

But I'm also like,

I feel a little delusional even saying that.

I was in Australia.

I just did shows in Australia and I went to the Great Barrier Reef.

I did like the snorkeling at the, I'm not a snorkeler.

I don't know.

I was just like, I, they were like, do you want to go snorkeling at the Great Barrier Reef?

And I'm like, how am I going to say no to that?

Like, I'm, no, I'd like to sit at the hotel and sit on my phone.

Like, I can't, I have to do this.

This is someone's bucket list item.

So I took a boat like an hour away and we got to the reef.

And I started snorkeling and the mask kept coming off my face and I was like miserable.

Then they give you all this like lube and they say Put it on your face.

So now I got all this Vaseline.

They give you all the Vaseline and they put it on the face.

And I finally get the thing on, and I start looking at the fish.

And I remember thinking, like, 10 minutes into this, I'm going, is this it?

This is the Great Barrier Reef.

And then I'm like, it's thinking is, but I'm by myself, and I'm like looking at this reef.

And I'm like, shouldn't I see a shark or some turtle eat something?

You know, like, I, and then we got back in the boat, and I was just sitting alone on the boat.

And I'm like, man, I guess this is why people have relationships.

Like, someone to go to the Great Barrier Reef and say how horrible it was

and go man that sucked right like you just want to go oh my god like and i again i'm sure someone gets a lot of value from seeing the great barrier reef but like you know again like this is old school i'm not saying i'm not saying anything that dr seuss didn't say you know like it's who you spend the time with and who you get to complain about with and i think i Like, I remember after that trip to Australia, I was like, I'm not, I think I told you, I was like, I'm not going.

Never going to the Great Barrier Reef alone again.

Right, right.

I just remember being on that boat, just being like, What the hell am I?

I was like, Do people like this?

Do

I don't know?

I think people like that they went with a partner and they were like, that sucked, right?

That's how I felt watching Superman last week.

I'm trying to get all my friends to go watch it to just figure out whether I'm mad or not.

It was the worst movie I've ever seen in my life.

I hated it.

It was so bad.

That's

that feeling of, and I didn't go with my wife.

I went with a couple of friends and they hated it too.

But then the ratings are through the roof.

Right.

And everyone else, I haven't, I don't know anyone.

so when you go watch it tell me i saw it what did you think i liked it

oh it's on 3d

yeah oh i didn't like 3d i thought 3d was a waste of any of the comedy i wasn't laughing

i didn't find the dog cute like i didn't get it dog got annoying yeah i just i thought the dog got annoying i didn't get the film are you a superman fan yeah i love superman you do but like i love the tv version with um do you do like smallville No, not Smallville is a pretty good show.

No, not Smallville.

I felt that way.

It's interesting.

And Jordana, I wanted to ask you that with kind of like the opposite end of what we're talking about with Jared.

Like, how long have you been married now?

Almost four years.

Okay, okay, yeah, fine.

And what have you, like, you've been building a business.

The business was fairly established at that point, I imagine.

But like, what's that been like for you where almost all the things Jared's afraid of are things you've been doing?

What's that like in reality?

I think in reality, it's like so much less scary than you think it is.

I think the hardest part is like, especially for you, is like, like, is the feeling of like finality and commitment and like, this is it.

I'm making a choice.

But I think nothing makes you feel like an adult more than like really making a choice.

And I think being married is making that choice every day and saying, you know, I'm going to look at the positive aspects of what's going on here.

Everybody doesn't mean like constantly being positive or never sharing something that's bothering you.

But I think sort of what you were saying is like the magic of marriage is not necessarily all the good stuff that you're sharing together, but being able to like go through life life and experience all the lows and all the highs.

And then you really have like this full intertwined experience with someone.

And they help you grow.

They help you, you know, if they're the right person for you, they're help, they're supporting you.

And I think then for me, what was unique about meeting my husband as opposed to anyone else I ever dated is I just felt like this full,

I felt so safe and so secure that I could build my career and I could go out there and I could like not be hyper focusing on finding the right person because I felt like I had someone who was supportive and who wanted the best for me that I could be fully myself with and like self-actualize.

And I think that you would have that totally too.

And of course, someone to make fun of the barrier reef with.

Yeah, to make fun to also go through the negative.

Like the barrier reef, as I call it.

Yeah, or to go through like the negative experiences.

If something horrible happens to you and you have someone who's seen that and they're also, then when things are good, they also can appreciate that with you much more.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was really cool, though, because we started this podcast when Jordana was single and also just started dating

her husband.

So it was funny to like, when in the beginning of this show, like how cool it was to like, it's funny that when we first started, like, you know, Jordana asked me questions that are like, so you could tell, like, this is kind of about my dating.

Like, I'm on a third date, you know, like, like, what would you say to someone going on a third date with someone they kind of like and they think is a good guy?

You know, like, it might be a good idea.

He listened to the podcast at that time.

I think he did, yeah.

That's funny.

Yeah.

That is the weirdest.

You have a dating podcast and you're like, like, the weird part is you're more honest on a podcast than you are, than you can be with the people in your life.

Like, as that might sound bad, but like you come on here, we're talking, we're, we're chit-chatting.

And that's the beauty of a podcast.

You get to like.

put in a headphone and just sit and be a fly on the wall.

And yeah, there's like.

That was a great part of Dano being in early dating and having you.

I would basically like, you could be like his mouthpiece almost for any fights we got into or anything.

And you'd explain the side.

And I would get it more because you do have like that very unique ability to sort of verbalize what men are thinking or how they're thinking about things.

That sometimes you just don't come at things the same way, and that's really the source of most conflict in relationships: is just having a totally different framework for how you see the world or how you would see a specific instance.

And a lot of the times, men and women are thinking about things really differently, right?

And that's kind of been like the frustrating part about like the internet's evolution over the last like seven years of us doing this podcast is like there aren't a lot of male voices, straight male voices in this space.

I'm not trying to like pat myself on the back, but like, I'm

when I come on this podcast, I am, I'm telling you exactly how I feel.

And it sounds really icky, as I said before, but like, this is it.

Like, I'm not apologizing for it.

I'm just telling you, and like, the podcast has been great because, you know, Jordana's never been like, well, that's just you.

You're gross, you know, like,

like, I am gross, but I am speaking.

I'm within, I'm not 100% away from your boyfriend.

I'm 10% away at a max.

Most of us are 10% away from each other.

So when we talk about stuff, like, and you see on the internet, like there's no male voice to get back to the horrific stories you hear about dating from the female side.

And it's because a lot of the male side of this isn't really morally great.

It doesn't feel quite as wholesome as the intentions for women.

Right.

The intentions for women on dating apps is, I want to find the love of my life and hold hands when we're buried together dead.

And nothing can be better than that.

I just like to.

Like, how do you, you know, that doesn't sound great on the internet and you will find a million voices shouting you down.

I'm here to be casual and just have a fun time.

And maybe if I meet someone great, like we have so many people that ask about, and this is like, they'll ask about what men write or people write, what they write as what they're looking for.

And it'll be like, I'm looking for a long-term relationship.

I'm looking for short-term, but open to long.

Before that option even exists, I would always say, men are looking for short-term option for long.

That's what all men are looking for.

The dream of this person waltzing into my life and making me not want anyone else.

That's the Disney princess to us.

So, you know, when we get asked, like, oh, what they wrote that they're looking for a long-term relationship, but they ended it with me.

It's like, yeah, that is bullshit.

Stop looking at what people, you know what they're looking for.

The only thing you should trust on on a dating app is I only want short term because that's them being honest.

Every guy on there is open to long term, but you know, open to short, but hoping for long.

And they believe it.

So you're not going to win that battle.

Hey, but you said you had long-term relationship written there.

Oh, you're right.

I guess we should be together now.

That's never going to happen.

Yeah.

And that doesn't sound great.

No, of course not.

That, yeah, I would make out with a bunch of chicks before I met the love of my life.

That doesn't sound great, but that's how most men are going about this.

It's really interesting when we think about it, even from my, if we're 10% away,

my perspective has been so transformed.

And I hear this from men who are married and have kids.

And so who are one step ahead of me in that journey?

And even for me,

getting married was the best decision I ever made because it actually gave me more time, energy, and space to do all the things I loved.

Because as a young man, all I did was chase women and spend loads of time, money, and energy on finding the right girl.

All of a sudden, I got all that time back.

So when you realize how much

back I have a buddy who's like all of a sudden into baking and I'm like, when did this happen?

He's like, I got a wife.

Yeah.

I like to bake.

It's like, I'm like a better version of myself.

And I remember speaking to like a lot of successful men and they were all like the best.

If you look through history, the most successful and happy successful men, I'm not just talking about financially, just men who are happy and successful.

It was because they were committed to one woman because they had so much time and energy to build, do, be, and be accepted.

I don't doubt that.

No, no, I'm not, I'm not preaching.

No, but I know, no, no, but I know you're not because I've heard you talk about your wife on our podcast, and you can tell, like, this is a partnership.

You guys are aiming for the same thing.

You seem on the same page, just the way you talk about your relationship.

And when you see that and feel that, you go, yeah, of course, that's the better option than single.

But then you sit here and you go, man,

I haven't really had that.

And that's the right answer because you're right.

It's not just anyone.

It's the person that's mutually working on it with you as well.

And it's your point too.

I could have been with a lot of different people.

I think I could have married a bunch of other people that I dated, but it wouldn't have worked because either I would have lost enthusiasm and energy or they would have.

Whereas the only reason why this one's working is because both people are willing to put in that energy and that work and that time in a way that I don't think I would have had for anyone else.

Like, you know, and that's, that's, that's the part that you're waiting for, and that's important.

Yeah.

For sure.

So I want to go to the final five before we do some segments with you.

These questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum, but I'm going to change it for you guys.

No,

I'm going to change it for you guys because I don't want to do that.

But

we're going to be quick with it.

Lightning rods.

So I'm going to give you a little bit of scenarios.

So you've been on a few great dates, but

you're always the one initiating.

At what point does that stop being their style and start being a sign they're not prioritizing you?

As soon as you're turned off by that.

Yeah.

I think, you know,

this is my answer.

Try this.

If you're in a position, you're always making the plan and it doesn't, you're turned off by it.

First of all, establish I'm turned off.

I don't like that I keep making the plan.

That's okay to admit.

It's okay to say you're turned off.

If you don't like making the plan.

If you don't mind making the plan, that's also okay.

Right.

Both are okay.

But if you want the person you're texting with to make the plan and it would make you feel good, send this text.

You ready?

Hey, I'm really busy today.

Would love to see you again.

Make a plan and I'm in.

Nice.

I like that.

There's no other answer to that than the plan.

If there's other answers, they're not really looking to go out and hopefully you're turned off by that.

Right.

Or they're not someone who makes plans and they're not for you.

Right.

Yeah.

Well said.

I like great answers.

That was very succinct, both of you.

That was good.

All right.

Umats on a dating app.

You've had a great conversation but they haven't responded in two days how long do you wait before moving on feeling it is the answer so like that person felt it i haven't heard from them in two days okay what are you going to do about it hey checking in would love to go out make a plan and i'm in right make a plan positive and direction will get you everything you want in life.

And my, with dating, if you're honest, you will feel dishonesty very quickly.

Be positive.

Hey, I've loved chit-chatting with you.

It's been a couple of days.

I'm around next week.

Make a plan and I'm in.

Make a plan and I'm in will set you free.

It will truly.

That's the one.

Such simple advice.

Yeah.

But I only give advice that would work on me.

What would work on me?

If someone I was texting with, but I was just getting the dope mean hit from their text and I didn't want to go out with them.

If they were like, hey, make a plan I'm in.

Time for me to go.

Let me put on my hat.

I'll be out the door.

Yeah.

And if that doesn't work, if make a plan Plan and I'm In doesn't work, you've saved your own time.

You've saved your own mental energy even thinking about it because you've thrown the ball in their court and now you can move on.

Right.

Great.

How do I navigate jealousy of friends, relationships, and milestones when I feel stuck or behind?

Remember that your friends are all liars and they're way more unhappy than you think they are.

No,

they suck.

How about that?

No,

your friends and the jealousy probably comes from a place of you assuming.

I think if you went out for lunch with a friend that you'd feel jealous of, you'd feel really different after that lunch.

I kind of tend to believe that.

I call it that guy mode, FTG mode, where you're like, someone will be like, hey, have you met my friend Tim?

And I'm like, FTG right away.

And then you meet them and you go, oh, they're a nice person and they're pretty cool.

And so I think if you're feeling jealousy towards your friends and their relationships, go for lunch with them.

I think that would be like a

purposeful move.

I have a slightly different take.

Go Go ahead, Joda.

I think one, I think the feeling of jealousy is really like, that's a secondary emotion for what you're really feeling.

And maybe what you're really feeling is like a loneliness thing.

And I think it's okay to feel that.

I think that tells you, that's actually great because it gives you direction.

Now you know what you want.

So many people have no idea what they want.

So I think that's great.

I think.

Have lunch with your friends not to see how miserable they are.

Or maybe that's, maybe they are, maybe they're miserable.

Or maybe they have a great relationship and you can say, what was it about this person that made them different?

You can get inspired by them.

I think you can change, like if we go back to the beginning of the episode, you can change your attitude.

You can feel like more excited and kind of get like a tip from them.

I think it's okay to feel people are so afraid to say, I feel jealous.

And I don't know why it feels like a very icky emotion, but I think it's okay to feel jealous.

Like, if jealousy is like, I know what I want, I want that.

Now, I can like really work to figure out how to get it.

All right, good answer so far.

That's all right.

This one, uh, this person's not overly impressive to me but they're loyal and kind do i stay or do i go i just always think of these things would i want that person saying that about me at our wedding

and i wouldn't want to be with that person i don't want to be with someone who pities me someone who doesn't think and again if you're thinking they're not overly impressive then you're probably

very caught up on what other people think of your partner.

And that's probably more of a message to you than it is to how they should be.

So maybe you have to go and kind of like work that out.

And why are you thinking that way about your partner?

And you should, I would, I would want them to end it with me.

I'd be like, I don't want to be thought of like a dog.

Loyal.

That's what, yeah, that's how you talk about the dog.

Right.

I mean, I do agree.

I think that like usually, I would admit, I would ask myself, what does overly impressive mean to me?

And what is that adding to my life?

And then, I mean, like, again, I think part of dating, especially as you get older, is like figuring out what actually matters.

And some people call that settling.

And I think other people call that prioritizing what's actually important.

So I think I would dig deeper into overly impressive, what that means to me, why I'm so interested in it, and what I think that's going to bring to a partnership.

Yeah, well said.

All right.

Fifth and final question.

We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show, but I'm going to apply it to dating and relationships.

If you could create one dating law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Every time you say you're confused about something,

exchange the word confused for turned off.

So I'm confused they haven't texted me back.

I'm turned off that they haven't text me back.

That's a great answer.

And being turned off doesn't mean it's over.

It's something to communicate to the person you're dating.

And that's an easy text to send from outside.

It's not easy to say on the inside, but to say to someone, hey, I'm a little turned off that you haven't texted me back since our date.

And that's all you have to say because, again, I only give advice that works on me.

Anytime a woman has told me they've been turned off by me, it has motivated me.

You impressed them.

Motivated me.

Motivated me to like do either end it or

be better.

Yeah, motivated you to some action.

Make a move.

To action.

So, so anytime someone says they're confused about something, I've noticed that that's just their way of not telling us that they're turned off.

So, take confused, switch it with turned off, and then communicate that.

Great advice.

Jordana, finish.

I think my mistake I used to make in dating, especially before starting this podcast, is

wanting to be the person that someone likes.

And so not stating your own needs in an effort to get the widest reach of people who are interested in you.

But what I've learned is that when you express your needs, you save your own time and you find the better match for you sooner because your needs are your needs.

There's no such thing as a wrong need or a right need.

It's what works for you.

And the sooner you ask or express your need, the sooner you find out if someone's going to meet it and the more time you save on your own.

Nice stuff.

Jordan and Jared, you guys are the best.

Great advice, great insight.

Anyone who's been listening and watching, make sure you subscribe to UOP if you haven't already.

Make sure you cut this into all your clips for TikTok, for Instagram.

Tag all three of us.

I love seeing the stuff that resonates with you, the stuff that turned you off, the stuff that brought you to life, the things that you're practicing.

I want to know who's doing the challenge with Jared because

it's helpful and it'll make you feel better.

You'll feel refreshed very quickly.

I will say that.

You could do the challenge in a relationship.

You're just, you know, put your,

I'm being more social.

Okay.

All right.

I didn't really.

I was like, cool.

I like the dinner one.

Yeah.

Make a plan with a couple.

It really does.

Yeah, it changes it.

It changes things.

Get off your phone.

This challenge is get off your phone.

It's a little bit.

Yeah.

Get off your phone.

When I'm with someone else, I'm off my phone.

But

your dinner, Jared, you're the best.

I hope you come back back soon.

Thank you.

You guys are awesome.

I really hope you'll come back again.

We've got lots more to talk about next time, but I would have kept you here for another hour if I could have.

So I'm so grateful.

Thank you so much.

You guys are awesome.

You're the best, man.

We really appreciate it.

This was so great.

Thank you so much for having us.

If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships.

People should be compassionate to themselves, but extend that compassion to your future self.

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