NFL Draft With Todd McShay, Packers HC Matt LaFleur, Playoff Recaps In NHL/NBA + Listener Submitted FAQ's

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On today's part of my take, we have a twofer for the people. We have our good friend Todd McShay on the show to break down the NFL draft.
He's given us a little something different than Daniel Jeremiah, telling us what teams are thinking, how he thinks the draft may fall, what are the Giants thinking, who's going to trade up. So great interview with him.
And then we also have Packers head coach Matt LaFleur. We talked to him about draft strategy, draft war room, and maybe 10 straight minutes of us trying to explain the Rizzler to him, which there's no other podcast that's going to do that with one of the 32 head coaches in the NFL.
We're going to talk NBA playoffs, NHL playoffs. We are starting on Zoom, going to talk the Tuesday night games.
Then we're going to talk the Monday night games back in studio together. We have Hot Seat, Cool Throne.
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OK, let's go. I love guys who like football, guys who like football.
They like me back and I like them back. And even guys that don't like football, they try to avoid me because I'm always trying to get them to like football football welcome to part of my take presented by DraftKings.
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The crown is yours. Today is Wednesday, April 23rd.
And PFT, we had a not-so-great night of playoff hoops and hockey. Well, we had an overtime game in hockey.
We did have a great Monday night, which we'll get to back in studio. But we also have a sick boy in the corner.
Max is sick. If you're watching on YouTube, this is the coziest part of my take ever.
If you're just looking at Max, you do look like you're snuggled up, which is adorable. I have an immediate take about the NBA, and I think Hank might actually agree with me on this one.
I like this. Can we just stop with the Eastern Conference playoffs? Can we just not do them? Because what's happening is every team is just kind of getting fattened up to get eaten by the Celtics and a delicious snack.
That's what's going to happen. I'm actually being serious.
Oh, this is a reversal. No, no.
Listen, I say that we should respect the Thunder, and I would like for Hank to show a little humility, but that's just because I can't stand when he's cocky and right about something at the same time. And he should respect the Cavs, or at least pretend to respect them.
But the East is just – get it out of my face. The East, there's no point in watching these games in the East because all these teams are going to – What about the a solid team the magic could be good one day the calves could be a contender but i don't think that they're a contender right now i think that they're a very good team that is going to struggle against superior talent and coaching on the celtics but the east in general i'm just i don't i don't want to watch any more eastern conference playoff games.
I don't. Okay, so, well, I mean, the Pistons, dude.
The Pistons-Knicks was a great game on Monday night, which again, the schedule here is, because we're taping a little out of order, we're going to get to the Pistons-Knicks, we're going to get to the Clippers-Nuggets, Ovi, all that stuff back in studio after we finish the Zoom portion. i think the pacers are good i do i like i know i like obviously i don't know they're probably not gonna beat the celtics they probably won't beat the calves um i think the pacers are good like that i i think they have a ton of shooting they play a fast pace like nemhart tonight was not only that big three which was

so sick when he just he basically put he was basically a snake charmer he put yannis into a trance and then slowly backed up and hit that three in his face but he also put dame in hell and i know dame was coming back from being off for a long time shout doc rivers for playing him 37 minutes uh it's so funny. But I like – the pieces are fun.
You make a good point about what Doc Rivers did tonight. It's ironic for his name to be Doc and for him to be like, hey, this guy has blood clots.
He hasn't been allowed to exercise, not just play basketball. He has not been allowed to exercise.
And you know what? He's back for the for the first night yeah we'll give him a full run well yeah we'll play his way back into shape well so the good news for doc rivers is he can't blow a 3-1 lead uh so that's out off the table now no but big cat you're you're being the fake news media right now we should be talking about how good of a job he did building those 3-1 leads. That's true.
This is a major, major fail on his part to not even get there. I also am wondering when the bucks are going to get some help for Bobby Portis.
Cause he was awesome tonight. But yeah, this was, all right.
So I do want to talk about the pages, but this was about the worst day you could have as a box fan because Dame comes back. You're like, all right, maybe this will be different.
You don't win. You cut it close because the Pacers kind of played with their food, but it didn't.
I mean, the Pacers were winning the entire game. And then you also get the report from Chris Haynes on Dan Patrick's show, who is a Dame insider.
So I think he's like the preeminent Dame insider uh he said that he would not be shocked if Giannis doesn't finish his career in Milwaukee and that this is a very pivotal playoff for them and if they don't make a finals run or win the finals there could be a big like wholesale change in Milwaukee which is I know that there's been a lot of speculation. It's more like the fan, like other teams being like, can't wait for Giannis to leave.
Can't wait for Giannis to leave. This feels like one of the first times that an insider is like, Hey, I'm hearing that maybe Giannis is going to leave.
So it's a bad, it's a bad scene for, for the bucks today. Yeah, yeah, it is.
And it's funny that there is a Dame insider because that that sounds like a job titled nicky smokes would give himself in the 1920s but i would i would also agree that um it doesn't feel like it's been working even when dame has been out there uh yeah it's kind of a bummer because i don't think this might be one of those things where we never really get to see this version of this team play to their true like top level that they can get to because of all the injuries and bad luck and when dame got there they didn't really gel so much right off the bat so we might not ever know if it was destined to succeed or not because should happen yeah i mean i think last year's team you could be like the what if with janice getting injured i think this year's team team is just not that good. And they have flaws.
And I mean, like even the announcer being like so pumped for Kyle Kuzma to score, which he did. He scored 12 points tonight, which was more than the zero he scored on Sunday.
I just think on the other side of it, like I think the Pacers are fun. I don't I get where your point is.
Like it does feel like it's going to be Celtics Cavs and most likely Celtics. The Pacers are very, very fun, though.
They push the pace. They got three-point shooters everywhere.
Like, I don't know what the Bucs are doing defensively, just keeping Naismith open, who I think he was – I don't know if he missed a three. He might have missed one three.
But, yeah, I like watching the Pacers play basketball. So, I don't want to fast-forward that portion.
but yeah, I like watching the Pacers play basketball. So I don't want to fast forward that portion.
But yeah, I could be down with some of the Eastern Conference just not being – like the Cavs are going to sweep. The Celtics are going to sweep.
I think the Pacers could even probably win in five. But yeah, I get what you're saying.
Yeah, my point isn't that the Pacers are a shitty team.

I just think that they're nowhere near ready to beat the Celtics on that level. They are fun, and if you're a Pacers fan, you should enjoy the hell out of it.
This is why you watch sports, is to watch a team that's young, that's putting it together, that you're getting excited about, that's fun. So, yeah, enjoy it.
I'm just kind of sick of the East, man. I am.
the the other thing though the the other one i'd push back on is i do like watching this series just because these teams actually hate each other they actually have beef they have history remember the yannis ball like fiasco what do you like what was he like took the ball off the court then we had pat bev last year they talk shit non nonstop. TJ McConnell was talking shit to Bobby Portis.
Halliburton's talking shit to Dame nonstop. Halliburton gets voted most overrated player, which basically is the whole league being like, we hate your guts.
I like that Rick Carlisle was like, it's a bullshit award having his back. But I like watching these two teams.

There's genuine bad blood.

It's not manufactured.

They really do dislike each other very much.

Yeah, at least it does make it a little bit interesting.

And I watched and I enjoyed the game.

I was hoping that there would be a couple lead changes just to make it a little bit spicy in the fourth.

But in terms of the other series, I would probably say it's the most – the Knicks Pistons at times is fun. Yeah.
But just the fact that the Pacers are kind of frenetic. And I know that we talked about their jerseys, the alternate jerseys that they're wearing.
It's even doubly worse that it's like a throwback look to the era where they actually had good throwback uniforms. Right.
But that's not one of them. Right.
It makes no sense. It makes no sense.
Hank, what's going through your head right now? Do you think that PFT is using a different tactic on you? No, I think he's being honest. I think he's seen the light.
I think the Cavs, I think he's being a little disrespectful to the Cavs. They're the one seed.
But I see where he's coming from. Yeah.
I am actually being honest. I'm not playing any games with Hank.
It works out that I might be fucking with him a little bit, but that's not intentional. I'm serious.
Yeah. Max is so fun.
Max, what? So Max is like the POV of like a lot of lists. There's a lot of AWLs who are probably like their phone is just our POV of Max asleep.
Max, you're not in the rest of the episode because you didn't come to work today. Some people are calling it soft.
We have never missed the show. What's going on right now are you falling asleep i know i'm good i was i was it was that was an internal roll of the eyes from whatever is going on about this eastern conference bullshit what what how many times i didn't go in i had the stomach bug i was awake all night last night of both ends.
There's nothing – there's no worse feeling in the world than having a stomach bug. A lot of people are calling you Lamar Maxson.
Do you have any comment on that? No, yeah. I didn't shit my pants.
I may have gotten a little bit of puke in my hair at one point because there was an emergency situation and my hair was down and I didn't have time to put it up. It's been a bad day.
It's been a rough day. I've been in this exact position for the entirety of the day.
I haven't eaten at all, which is nice. I'm probably going to be skinny as fuck at the end of this.
Yeah, you are. That was the first thing I texted you when you told me.
I was like, I'm jealous of you because there's nothing better than losing like a quick eight to ten pounds just from liquid and then being like, man, I feel good. And then you just have one big meal and you're fat again.
That happens every time. LeBron might have just got murdered, guys.
Yeah, I think he's dead. I don't know if he's ever going to recover from this.
Oh, no. Let's see how bad it was.
Oh, no. Let's see.
Is LeBron okay? He's down. Oh, no.
What happened? Did he actually get hit? I think a pinky might have hit his eye. Oh, he did actually get hit in the eye.
He'll probably be down for another five minutes. Oh, Julius Randle cut.
I don't know if that was dirty, but it did look a little extra. Oh, he's up.
He's okay. Verbal meme, the handshakes, Max and Joel Embiid not showing up in the playoffs.
That's a good one. I like it.
Max, why did you roll your eyes internally? What does an internal eye roll even mean? Like I closed my eyes and was rolling them inside of my eye. Inside of your head.
Wait, what do you disagree with? Did you even do that? I don't even remember what we were talking about. Okay.
Max, what happened with the portal today? Well, the villain of whatever. Okay, that was your portal update.
All right, the Grizzlies. The one series that we can all agree just needs to be over is the Grizzlies Thunder.
This is men versus boys. The Thunder's defense is so fucking good.
They had Chad Holmgren out there blocking shots when they're up 20 with like 40 seconds left just because he could. It's not even they could play this.

They could play a hundred games.

And I honestly, I would, if you told me they were going to play a hundred games

and the line was set at the thunder winning turn injuries off the thunder

winning 92 and a half over 92 and over under 92 and a half.

I would take the over way over.

Yeah, that's how, that's how, that's how lopsided. I might take it over if it was 99 and a half over 92 and over under 92 and a half i would take the over way over yeah that's how that's how that's how lopsided i might take it over if it was 99 and a half yeah you would say 100 times out of 100 yeah well now you're leaving yourself open if for some reason the grizzlies win one game you're wrong no not against not against this thunder team not against not against this thunder team you know what i think it's 98 and a half and and I'm going to take the over.
Yeah. It's just not a real series.
They need to just move on with it. By the way, did you see, because we are big ratings guys, did you see the NBA had its highest ratings in 25 years for opening weekend of playoffs? What was the biggest game? I didn't see what the biggest game was.
Was it Celtics Magic? I don't know. I'm always interested in that part of it.
That was good. Sounds like it was Celtics Magic.
I just saw that it was up. I didn't realize.
Okay. So are you confirming it was Celtics Magic? I think I saw that earlier, but the ratings in general, that's great.
It's great for the league. Yeah.
All right. And should we – like I don't really know.
I feel like the Thunder – listen, I like watching the Thunder team. Alex Caruso, by the way, our guy, just a menace.
He was everywhere tonight. He just was in every single play, just rebounding, just a pest.
The Thunder are like we should just tell everyone right now we're not going to talk about the thunder or grizzlies until or the thunder until the next round like let's just close this series out let's just say it's over right yeah i would agree with that let's just fast forward to the finals we all it's it's celtics thunder like there's no other there's no other way okay i just want i just wanted to get it clear because i didn't want thunder fans to be like why aren't you talking about the word we're already we're already putting you in the next round that's how good you guys are you're in the next round we will discuss when you get to your next round big cat did you hear that the thunder put you on the jumbotron tonight what saying wear the shirt. Oh, really? Do you have the clip? I don't have a clip.

Somebody. you on the jumbotron tonight what saying wear the shirt oh really do you have the clip i don't have a clip somebody just tweeted at me and said big cat was just on the jumbotron before the game telling fans to put the shirt on and and our guy the shirt guy was he was sticking out he was he was like neon colored tonight not wearing a shirt hart and signed through the shirt on him and was like, put it on, and he didn't put it on.
Crazy. I need that clip.
If the Thunder, if anyone from the Thunder is listening, I need the Jumbotron clip. That's awesome.
I'm fully supportive of the Thunder. I've said it before.
I mean, Alex Crusoe and Lou Dorter are probably two of my top 10 favorite players in the NBA. So I do want to hear, I want to hear the Thunder fans explanation for why I want to hear his reasoning behind it.
Cause he might have a good reason. I don't know.
We still might get them on. I don't know.
We got to figure that out. All right.
The Lakers are going to win this game, right? There's three minutes left. Oh, they showed a rod uh let's talk hockey and then we'll we'll

see what happens the end of this game leaves team of destiny it feels like they might be it feels like overtime goal like this might be the year for for our friends up in toronto yeah that was a sick overtime goal uh the devil should just be out the devils are the grizzlies. Yeah.
Same thing. Just go to the next round, Hurricanes.
And I'm actually – I mean, the Wild right now are kicking the shit out of the Knights. That is where hockey is, like, better than the NBA in terms of playoffs.
It's like the Knights are a better team than the – a significantly better team than the Wild, and the Wild are shit-p pumping them right now. Yeah.
I mean, at a clock central start times insane. Yeah.
It even got moved back to. Yeah.
Yeah. That's what, remember that year was, I think it was last year that I bet the Oilers and I, Oh no, it was two years ago.
I bet the Oilers were still living in New York and I was like, it almost killed me because I was like, I can't. I don't know how I can watch these games.
It's on way too late. So, yeah.
Big Cat, I know we're going to talk about the caps in a second. Did you see the teeth? No.
So Alex Alexiev, he got hit in the face by a stick. It was inadvertent.
They called it a four-minute penalty at the time, and they took it off because it was on a follow-through.

But he got hit in the mouth by a stick. He lost two of his front teeth on the ice, and they found the teeth.
And, of course, because the ice crew found the teeth, they took a picture of it, and they put up online. These are some gnarly-ass teeth.
They look like shark teeth. I tweeted it out a second ago.
but apparently he needs like full facial reconstruction,

dental surgery. And he's like, you know what? I'll do it after the playoffs.
Fuck it. I will send this to Max.
See if he can puke again. Oh, shit.
Yeah. Pretty gnarly, right? You know what? You know what? Lucy's teeth don't get enough credit for being as big as they are.
Yeah. they're like icebergs.
Yeah, icebergs. Yeah, they're crazy when you take a tooth out.
This is a front tooth? Two front teeth. Like a fang.
Nuts. Yeah, it's a canine tooth.
He's Russian. He might be part wolf.
Max, what would make you puke right now? What visual? No visuals. Why do you guys want me to puke? It would be great for numbers.
No, it wouldn't. He's going to drown.
He's going to drown. The way this guy's drinking right now, he's going to drown.
He's not even lifting his head. Memes, how many numbers would this clip do if Max just puked during the show? He just started puking on himself.
It would rip. It would rip.
We had to call the police and be like someone get to his house right now

and put him on his side so he doesn't Jimi Hendrix

himself

okay he's good

he's not going to die

if you die during the show it would be tremendous for the ratings

incredible

that would be true

oh man

alright do we have anything else

I know this has nothing to do with the NBA or NHL

oh I have two topics that don't

Thank you. Incredible.
That would be true. Oh, man.
All right. Do we have anything else? I know this has nothing to do with the NBA or NHL.
Oh, I have two topics that don't. The Cubs are just one of the most exciting teams.
They just play awesome games every night. They had a home run with one out left in the bottom of the night to go to extras and then win against the Dodgers.
Fun to beat the Dodgers. They're very fun to watch.
I don't know if it's sustainable to win every game like 11 to 10 but we're going to find out and then we should say the Pope passed away on Monday after we recorded on Sunday night and we are we as officially as a podcast are we all down to officially endorse pizza Bala I think that should be our pick well I like him but again I go back to the fact that having a fat Pope would be great for the vibes. It would.
I would love to see a fat Pope. Pierre Batista Pizzabala.
Yeah, it's a good name. That is his name.
But Big K, that's short-sighted because when you become Pope, you take on a new Pope name. Yeah, but we'll always know him as Pope Pizzabala.
You'll forget. He'll be like, I'm Pope Innocent the 17th.
It's not going to be Pope Pizzabala. What if he goes from Pope Pizzabala to Pope Calzone? He's like, my new name is Calzone.
I would respect that. I would respect that a lot.
Yeah, I would like to see a fat Pope. Also, if you're the Pope, it must be a real letdown to die right after Easter.
Because if you die on Easter as the Pope, that's some pizzazz. That's some flair.
That is a one-way ticket to sainthood. Right? Like that is all.
It's like when I think Thomas Jefferson, didn't he die on the 4th of July? I think so. Yeah.
Pretty cool thing if you're the Pope and you die on Easter, you're like, that's a legacy move right there. yeah yeah and he missed it by like a couple hours right yeah and apparently our vice president jd vance was the last person to see the pope alive wearing a yellow tie interesting what is that no idea but you know how like twitter works now where people would be like look like what do you see and it's just a video and i just stare at it for 20 minutes i'm like i don't know what i see i saw one that was like interesting that jd vance was wearing a yellow tie when he met the pope i was like what is this supposed to mean or that the last two sitting popes to die it was like the before the two world wars yeah it was 1914 and 1939 is that true i don't know i don't i it can be it can't be the last two sitting popes.
Like what happened to the other popes? They just they retired and then they then they died. Well, that one pope, the Nazi pope left.
Yeah. Right.
Yeah. And he just bounce.
Yeah. He they got him out to paint.
Hold on. I'm looking up the fact that I think this was just a meme that Hank saw because I saw the same.
Oh, yeah. No, yeah.
No, I saw one thing. It was, yeah.
I wasn't going to say it until you said the yellow tie thing, but. Well, I mean, just, I mean, you have to realize he was wearing a yellow tie.
Pope dies 1914. World War I started.
Pope dies 1939. World War II started.
But where's the, me being informed that sitting popes also died in 1914 and 1939 but there have been other posts that have died in between right i would i would think so yeah based off how you just said that like like when did it's true that dude uh john paul die john paul the I'm looking it up. We're doing both facts real quick.

By the way, the Lakers have won.

Luka was awesome tonight.

This is just – the West does feel like outside of the Grizzlies-Thunder series,

it's going to be a war, those other three series, and it's going to be great.

And it just – it felt like this is – losing game one at home,

that's why I'm going to take the – here's a free pick for everyone. DraftKings.
I'm going to take the Rockets. I'm going to take the Rockets tonight because I just, if you lose game one at home and you're equal team, I think you're, I think you're, you're probably gonna win game two at home.
Cause you have a little more of a, you know, a little more drive. i feel like there's something mentally where if you

if you win game one on the road you're not that they're not going to try the warriors but mission accomplished yeah you know that's what you say at the beginning of every like two games we got to get a split yeah right still home court also if you're the rockets game two kind of feels like a game seven.

Yeah.

Agreed.

All right. So John Paul II, he died in 2005.
So was he not the Pope then when he died? Recession. I don't know.
I don't know. John Paul I died in 1978.
so I feel like popes die a decent amount because they don't when they make the popes it's never like a young pope no you gotta be old I feel like you have to be in your 50s oh that's true is it actually oh yeah it is other thoughts on the – I think the Lakers-Wolves is going to be a six or seven game series. And I expected the Lakers to win tonight, and I expected what we saw.
I mean, Luka is the best player on the court when he wants to be, and LeBron is still – like, LeBron's still really, really good. I mean mean he went for 21 11 and 7 like he's if they can if they can get a little bit from they got a little bit from ruey they got a awesome reeves and that's enough uh i do have a monday reading that's okay okay it's a it's a tweet from uh kanye west oh no i'm not.
No, I'm not going to do that.

I'm not going to do it.

But the thought did cross my mind when I saw it.

Like, I already put something in the drafts for a banger week one.

How are you getting ready for NFL Sunday with the Falcons' cousins' Phoenix?

He might not be on them.

He might not be on it. For PFTs, keep Keep them Atlanta.
Yeah. Come on.
Do the right thing. All right.
We're going to kick it to ourselves where we're going to talk Monday night schemes, which were a lot more exciting. And then we have Tom McShay on the show.
We have Matt LaFleur. I said it at the opening of the show, but you will not find another podcast or media entity that will spend 10 of the 30 minutes interviewing an NFL head coach trying to explain to him who the Rizzler is.
That's a guarantee. That is where it devolved with Matt LaFleur.
And then we'll finish with listener FAQs. And hopefully Max will be back in studio on Thursday for the NFL draft.
Yep. I'll be back Thursday.
Okay, we're back in studio. We're going to talk a little Monday night games.
We're going to start with the Knicks and the Pistons. I want to start with the Pistons, PFT, and congratulate Pistons fans.
They had a 15-game losing streak in the playoffs. They had not won a playoff game in 17 years may 2008 may 2008 it is i know that obviously this series is only 1-1 and uh you know there's a lot of basketball left in this series and they're probably not going to win the title this year but you got to celebrate these moments because kade cunningham was phenomenal and he's a real dude, and that was the moment where it's like, hey, this is all last year.
Remember, this team last year lost 28 games in a row. They lost 28 games in a row.
They started the season last year 2-1. They went to 2-29 to 3-36.
They finished last season with 14 wins they are now they they won 44 games this year they're in the playoffs they just took a young team with a young star and Cade Cunningham into Madison Square Garden and almost won both games but decisively one game not decisive but they won game two this is something that P Pistons fans should enjoy and revel in and be like, yes, it is now trending towards the right way. All of Detroit sports, by the way, besides the Red Wings.
Think about it. The Lions have been bad forever.
They've obviously the last few years have been really good. The Tigers were bad for a really long time.
They've been good. And now the Pistons.
And Michigan football beat Ohio State. Yeah.
That's good, too. So it's cool for Pistons fans.
That's a moment that you're like, hey, the monkey's off our back. I mean, that's a crazy losing streak.
I think it was the longest losing streak in NBA history. Yeah.
So that 2007-2008 Pistons team, that was like the end of the bad boy era, the bad boy part two era. I think they won their first game, then got gentleman's sweat.
Yeah, so that was... I think that was the 23 points in the fourth quarter.
LeBron? That's when LeBron killed him? Yeah. Yeah, so that was...
I think it was Rasheed, Chauncey, Rip, and Tayshaun. I don't think Ben Wallace was about to.
Ben Wallace came to the Bulls. Yeah.
Put a big billboard in. But that's how long it's been.
Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy.
So I'm happy for Pistons fans that they get this moment, especially, you know, we saw it last year when you're a smaller market going up against the Knicks in the playoffs. The story's going to be about the Knicks.
They went in there, won that game. Yeah, let's see what – I think they had won since their last series win.
Okay, so they won – so that year they had won two series and then they lost in the conference finals to LeBron and then that was it. Yeah.
Oh, no, they lost in the conference finals to the Celtics. So, yeah, I think LeBron was earlier than that.
That was a great series, though, when it was like LeBron and then nobody against the Pistons.

Yeah, but I'm happy for Pistons fans.

Cade Cunningham is awesome, 33-12.

He was great.

Tobias Harris has been great.

Dennis Schroeder, that was like that three that he made

because that felt like the Pistons were going to lose that game

in a similar fashion to the game one where it's like

they played really well for three quarters and they just couldn't hold on to it. They couldn't hit a shot for like three minutes.
And then Schroeder hits that shot. And he's I mean, he was like a very calming, you know, he's a veteran.
He's been on a million teams, but he's he's he's seen some of these moments. Bet on himself.
Bet on himself. And yeah, it was it was cool.
And people, Paul, shout out people-ball paul our guy b-ball paul had a nice putback he had six points so the pistons they're fun the end of this game was it was very very close at the end and that schroeder three made made all the difference uh and then watching i i didn't watch all the game because my eyes were mostly focused on the caps but watching the highlights of this game they showed jalen brunson highlights from the game. I don't think you can call them highlights.
Yeah. I don't think I don't.
What they showed from that game was like four different plays where he does the insurance fraud. Yeah.
Where he's in front of you in traffic, slams on the brakes. You run into it.
You're like, what the hell? And then he's like, oh, yeah, I got to file a claim. Sorry, you hit me.
Yep. the all right so yeah i have i have a take i was brewing last night that obviously i understand how this works nicks fans you have to defend your guy and jalen brunson's really good yeah so so nicks fans you you can be like you're an idiot you don't know what you're talking about fuck you all of it i understand how it works i personally i like jalen brunson as a player.
I like, I mean, I loved watching him at Villanova. Uh, he's a phenomenal basketball player.
The foul baiting has gotten to a point where it's just hard to watch. And it's not just the foul baiting in this part is less Jalen Brunson and more probably Tibbs who I feel like hots big time hot seat.
This might be the end for him. Uh, the, the Knicks in this this fourth quarter they just go to straight iso ball foul baiting no one else touches the ball jalen brunson just trying to score and it's it's bad basketball to watch so from what i've seen knicks fans they tend to agree in games that they lose yeah in games that they win they're like well it works it's winning basketball but when they lose i think even they're like come on man let's have some watch winning basketball.
But when they lose, I think even they're like, come on, man. Let's have some watchable basketball.
Right. And by the way, because I know I saw this, it is not just Jalen Brunson.
SGA does it a lot. James Harden was the king of it.
He invented it. He invented it.
Chris Paul. Like, there are guys who do the foul beating.
And if you want to say. Jokic was flopping last night, too.
Yeah. And if you want to say, well, that's an officiating problem, I would agree with you.
Like, remember there was that, like, two-week stretch where they were like, hey, we're going to stop letting guys jump into another guy and not even try to attempt a shot. They called it for, like, two weeks, and then they stopped calling it.
If they started calling those again, I think it would probably fix itself. But as it stands right now, I do not enjoy watching Jalen Brunson play basketball.
And that's just a personal opinion of mine. It doesn't mean that he's not a good player.
He's a phenomenal player. I just don't like watching it because it's not fun.
And it's him isolation, doing the stop and start, kind of jumping into people. And it's not a great watch.
He'll jump in front of you. They need to implement something that's similar to the charge rule.
Yeah. Where Jalen Brunson, if he gets in front of you, he has to have established position and you have to have time to avoid him.
Yeah. Instead of just hitting two feet, stopping, getting the ball, and having the guy barely clip you on the back and fall down.
Yeah. And it was a game that was so – it's not all on Jalen Brunson.
I think the coaching for the Knicks was really bad in the fourth quarter. Carl Anthony Towns, and now Carl Anthony Towns is someone that has had disappearing acts in the playoffs.
I actually don't know if this one was 100% on him. He took his last shot with 520 to go in the third quarter.
They just didn't run anything for him. think I saw I gotta find the stat I think Jalen Brunson passed it to him 12 times total uh which is pretty shocking when you like Carl Anthony Towns whatever you want to say about the guy he is a like elite offensive player and he's one of the best big man shooters of all time.
And yeah, here it is.

Over the first two games of the series,

oh, it's the first two games,

Brunson has passed the ball to Towns a total of 12 times.

12 times.

I don't understand how you're not running Jalen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns in pick and roll.

And I know Carl Anthony Towns has had moments

where he's been soft or he hasn't pushed the action.

Last night watching that game, I don't think that was 100% on him

because I think they just were like, everyone clear out of the way,

and they're not running anything for him,

and they're not trying to get him involved,

and you just can't win that way when he doesn't get a shot

for the last quarter and a half.

That's insane.

I thought 50 Cent put it best when he commented on what happened yesterday. Did see 50s comments no he said fuck today man the knicks lost the pope died and kanye told us he sucked his cousin's dick for eight years yeah i'm gonna bet early tomorrow gotta be better day yeah yeah i mean what else can you say what else can you say high level analysis from 50 but i i do think it's lazy to be like carla, Carl Anthony Towns just disappeared, because they're not running plays to try to get him involved.
The Knicks are the biggest good vibes, bad vibes bust, depending on what happens in that game. When they win, it's like these guys are a bunch of dogs.
Tibbs has a guy playing. He's got the guys playing hungry.
This is Tibbs basketball. This is awesome.
I love the grittiness. When the Knicks lose, it's like, this team sucks.
I hate watching them. Yeah.
And it all depends on the result of the game. And you also had Mikael Bridges missing a three at the end of the game, and he's not playing great, and they traded a lot for him.
It does feel bad vibes. Great vibes.
But I also – yeah, Detroit. The big word that gets used a lot in the NBA community is ethical versus unethical hoops.
Cade Cunningham is an ethical hooper. Jalen Brunson is an unethical hooper.
Okay. I don't really.
I'm not using that. I just think it's very funny that they've gotten to that level.
We're getting into moral relativism when we're talking about how people are playing basketball. Here's newsflash.
There's no such thing as moral relativism in sports. it's like is it allowed did you score if it's not yeah are you scoring son yeah uh if it's allowed by the rules then you can do it and if it's not then you can still do it and try to get away with it and if you don't get away with it then it's bad my my big thing is say kate cunningham is uh i'm not gonna say he's an ethical hooper, but he does.
He tries to play through contact.

He's going forcefully to the hoop.

I always just judge it as, is a player trying to score or are they trying to get fouled?

And when it leans more to trying to get fouled, that's just not basketball I want to watch.

It just sucks to watch.

Yeah, we're not going to talk about altruism.

It's baltrouism.

He's a baltrouistic player.

I do.

You know what?

Yeah, obviously that's a ridiculous take to start putting labels on ethical or not.

It's unethical hoops.

That's what people are saying. But the more I think about it, the more I kind of agree, like he's playing the game the way that it's meant to be played.
Right. This is how I know I'm getting old.
Yes. Where I'm like, yeah, you know what? That's when Dr.
James Naismith nailed up the peach basket. He was thinking about Cade Cunningham.
Yeah. He wasn't thinking about paul yeah yeah you're absolutely right he was kate cunningham was exactly he was envisioning that yeah one day one day there'll be a young hooper from oklahoma one day the pistons will be on a 17 year drought in the playoffs at the time and kate cunningham will come and be the savior you would have been like wait what are what are pistons yeah those don't exist that's true yeah that's a good point now wait no wait uh knickerbockers they existed when does when was the car invented when was it when was the uh piston invented 1880 are you just making that up is a guess that's a guess as a guess when was the car invented the piston invented 1902 maybe the first cars didn't have 1886 good job hey i don't know yeah if there were pistons in them i don't know what the faster the fastest horses that's what he would have envisioned do you can you google when pistons were i just invented when was the piston invented and it says that the jet for the winnipeg is an f-15 eagle so So this is all fucked up.
Okay. So James Naismith invented basketball in 1891.

So that was after the car.

So he could have maybe.

Yeah.

Internal combustion.

I don't know.

Not car guys.

Yeah. Not car guys.

We're jet guys.

All right.

The Hank, do you agree with the Jalen Brunson thing?

Yeah.

Max is not here. He's sick.
Very James Harden-esque. Yeah, and I didn't like when James Harden did it.
No. And I don't like when SGA does it.
Wait, are you saying Max not being here is James Harden-esque? Both. That is true.
Yeah, like it's not just him. I'm not just picking on him.
When SGA does it, I don't like it. It's lame.
But Jalen Brunson also does things that you watch and you enjoy. Of course.
His mid-range game. I mean, he's so clutch.
Max isn't here, but it's like Embiid, too. It's like when they get addicted to foul baiting, and it takes away from their skill.
It's like a kid in school that tattles early on. They get their way.
They learn that they can have the teacher punish the kids they don't like, and then later, three years later, they're just a jerk. They have the ability to blow by someone, but rather than just finish, they're like, let me wait for someone to come behind me.
Jimmy Butler does it sometimes where it's like, you're not, you're not trying to score. You're just trying to get fouled.
And like, if the shot that you huck up there somehow goes in, you'd be like, great. And one, not me.
I'm an ethical hooper. I am as well.
I don't call fouls. No.
Literally. What's that? If I were in the NBA, I'd be like, ref, do not call a foul for me.
Yeah, no blood, no foul. Clippers Nuggets has been an incredible series, and Kawhi is all the way back.
What a fucking game for him. 39 points.
He was 15 for 19. There was a moment there.
I think he was 11 for 12. This series just rocks.
Yeah. I said on, I think, Monday's show, like, if you watched the way that Kawhi just looked on the court, the way he was asserting himself, like, this guy is just 100% healthy now.
I think he just refuses to play unless he's 110%, unless he's feeling like the best he's ever felt in his life. So with Kawhi, if he's on your team, you're either going to get, like, the best player best player in the NBA one of them all around or you're going to get a guy that's just going to disappear for six months yeah but so when we were talking about on Monday I thought game one he was he had the look of it but he didn't assert himself the way that like Kawhi can assert himself and take over a game he did that in game two yeah he's like this is I'm I'm the guy and it's me and there's nothing you can do about it and he's got that ability where it's not even they're not it's not even like stuff they're drawing up necessarily it's just that he's got a one-on-one matchup and you can't stop his mid-range game yeah and his moves and he's just too strong and too fast too tall like he just he's so good i have a question for you you, Big Cat.
Is Russell Westbrook contagious?

Oh, who caught it?

Jamal Murray?

Jamal Murray a little bit.

Jokic caught a tinge of the Westbrook-itis last night.

Jokic has always had a little bit of it.

He had a good amount of it last night, especially down the stretch.

What, do you have, like, seven or eight turnovers?

Yeah.

I mean, he did have a triple-double.

He did?

Yeah.

But he, yeah.

There were some out-of-control players.

Jamal Murray did it.

He just picked up.

Who was it?

Norman Powell?

Yeah.

He just picked him up, and it was the most confusing thing ever.

I think that caught it a little bit. It was funny.
It's always funny watching Russ play and when he hits a big three, you're like, that was a big three but it's going to cost you the next two because he's going to do it again. Yeah, get ready for some shots that go just directly off the back.
Yeah, and it was nice to see Michael Porter Jr., who was not good. I think he got benched in game one, came back and played well.
This series is just two teams that are both really good, evenly matched, that I hope goes seven. Porter might be hurt, too.
That would be concerning if you're a nugget. Yeah.
I said this to PFT at dinner on Saturday, but Kawhi is the Brooks Koepka of basketball. Ooh, I like that.
His peers will be like, he's the best. He can be the best.
He can beat the best when he's on his A game. He just doesn't care about maybe starts or playing the regular season.
It's just when the time matters the most. He can perform better than anyone.
Right. You could make the argument.
So if you said last 10 years, everyone is equal, healthy in their prime, would it be LeBron, Steph, Kawhi? He's got a pretty high hit rate they said yeah it was like three i saw i think it was like dragonfly jones was like i've seen he's he's been the best player in playoff series versus lebron versus janice right versus all these players he has had series where he's the best player in that series and it's like all the people you're about to make and i'm saying 10 years because obviously yokich obviously he in the conversation, but that's more recent in the last five years. And obviously KD would be up there.
Tatum Brown. But that's more recent.
Yeah. But yeah, he's up there.
He doesn't get talked about like that, not only because he's heard a lot, but he's also Kawhi. He's not marketing himself.
Right. When his code is like completely compiled and every all the systems are running and he's out there there's very few people that are better than yeah but when one thing is wrong he just shuts he goes into a hard reboot yeah he's like i need to go back in the shed for a while and wrench on myself and i'll be back i'm gonna be back when i'm back and when i'm back i'm gonna be awesome and I'll say this for James Harden, not the biggest fan, but the combo of James Harden and Kawhi is why people are high on the Clippers and why they win games like this.
Because at the end of the game in a playoff series, you need guys who are just pure shot makers. You know what I mean? They can make the big shot, and those guys can do that.
I mean, i mean james hard maybe not later on in the series but it's early enough in the series where he can still be the shot maker has there been a time if you're a nuggets fan when you're watching this team and you're like it would be it would be advantageous to us if we had our coach who because there was one of those moments last night oh what seemed like a couple just stutters of the rotation where it didn't seem like they were completely confident what they should be doing yeah but they did not like michael malone that's true the reports yeah but guess what sometimes the team unites around hating the coach that's a fact that's literally how bobby knight coached right he wanted them all to hate him yeah they have a something that's great in common yeah like a bedrock of who they are as a person is they fucking hate their coach together. Yeah.
As one. Together.
It's like Hank and us. Yeah.
That's absolutely true. Yeah.
If Hank would know he's right. I am right.
Who am I in this situation? You're the coach. Oh.
Yeah. Yeah.
If you didn't sit in that. If you didn't sit on that couch...
If you didn't sit on that couch and daydream about golf and tune in and out,

PFT and I would maybe fight each other.

Yeah.

We'd have to take out our aggression on each other.

You're like a lightning rod where you take the most amount of lightning

so we can just keep surviving.

Even the fact that you're pretending to not understand this analogy is infuriating.

It's pissing me off.

Yeah.

It's pissing me the fuck off.

I'll see a long time. I used to hear myself talk.
But you don't anymore, so you don't have to. But I'd be like, why did I speak at that point? The more paying attention I am, the more I speak.
So you don't I like when you speak so you you you tune out now because you had to do so much work back then no I just like would be listening it's like oh this is funny great they're great banter and then like I would hear myself come in and just be like but pf is right in the fact that didn't need to say that if we did just say podcast if it was just the two of us talking and we didn't have anyone else speak, that would get crazy. Yeah.
We would go crazy. Yeah, happy to help.
Like Pug here. Pug.
What up? Sit in the big chair. There we go.
Do we think Max is... I guess people have already listened to it.
Do we think Max is going to join the Zoom tonight? I hope he does from the toilet. Yeah.
He's got bad diarrhea right now. Is Max...
Because this is... We've never missed podcasts.
No. Listen, the guy's sick.
But we don't miss podcasts. Yeah, me neither.
Right. You don't miss podcasts, Hank.
We've never missed podcasts. Max gets...
Knock on wood. He had...
Last night was what? It was like chili cheese fry night at his favorite bar and then all of a sudden he gets sick meatball night it was meatball night wait was it really yeah it was and then he wakes up he's like oh we had like a commercial shoot we had to do all morning max was supposed to be part of it he does meatball night and next thing you know he's sick meatball monday is that's a wild move like getting back into your week with a meatball dinner we should make him start having to do like lebron style videos meatball it's meatball monday uh hockey pft ov awesome great game huh well not really it was a great two periods you almost blew it and then half the third period and then overtime was cool again man i just love watching ov play so much i some i think it was grant paulson tweeted out the clip of of the hit that ov late and i think he had seven or eight hits last night he's an animal he was he was fucking insane last night if you're a kid if you're a 10 year old kid and you're creating your own player your custom player in a video game and you have you know a certain limit of how many points you can give for attributes i feel like you would create ovi yeah every time like like shot power 100 shot accuracy 100 hit power 100 yeah and that's what you do like he's exactly what i would create as a uh as like a 12 year old but yeah the the guys look great in the first two periods um just physically dominant controlling play down in their end and then it all fell apart in the second half of uh of the third period and then my butthole tightened up real real tight and i was like fuck we're gonna lose because two nothing most dangerous lead in hockey that's facts and they scored one i was like they're gonna get another and the goaltending i don't know if you saw the second goal last night this is what i'm worried about the second goal from the canadians yes this is what I'm worried about with this team. Lindgren was standing a full crease outside of his own crease at one point, just leaving the goal wide open.
That concerns me a little bit. But overall, still feeling good about the Caps.
I do like Ryan Leonard, too. I like the rookie that they've got.
He hasn't really scored much, but he's just out there looking to hit people. And he's got those young legs that you can see.
He's fresh. Yeah.
So, yeah, fun game. It was also very funny that they put up the graphic that Ovi had never scored a playoff OT goal.
Yeah. And then three seconds later, he wins the game.
What an animal. Yeah.
Stav is walking across the screen right now. We talked to Stav a little bit about how if you're like a fan of a team, you learn to defend and you become like a deputized legal expert in anything that your players do wrong so you can defend them.
I realized last night that I've become that way about Ovi. You have to.
To the extent where now I'm like, Ukraine might have had some bioweapons last. There's some bad dudes.
There's some bad guys. Listen, they're saying they might want to join nato one day yeah some bad mama jamas and then i mean it was a great night it was a great night in playoffs on monday night uh the the jets now have a commanding to a lead and then the the avalanche stars game was awesome the overtime was like they were just going full fucking tilt back and.
There's nothing better than playoff overtime when you don't get a commercial and it's like no puck stoppage and you just have like seven minutes straight of the boys just flying down the ice back and forth. I was going to say there's nothing better than overtime playoff hockey when you're not rooting for one of the two teams.'s the overtime playoff yes because that sucks oh the you have you have uh max's twitter can you tweet logged in can you tweet that should i tweet that yeah tweet that pug's just gonna tweet meatballs uh and then and then did you guys see the uh the kings the kings oilers game was very mean to the oilers because the oilers were down all game and they fought all the way back and they tied it five five and then they gave up a goal with like 30 seconds left to lose the game but the real the star of the night was the harmonica band yes did the national anthem which was if you're la that was actually a really smart move because like what other way to get your opponent off their game than just throw the most la thing at them well i i don't know you're in la you might think like fergie's coming out there and then it's harmonica and then it's harmonica then you've got is the korean harmonica orchestra yes i think all these ladies they appear to be the silver side of life.
Yeah. But still very vibrant and youthful.
I thought it was beautiful. Yeah.
It was. I love watching our friend Ryan Whitney's tweets during Oilers games because he's just living and dying.
And it was actually really cruel what happened because they were down 5-3 and the the game was over and they scored two goals in like 30 seconds to tie it five five and then the kings just came back and won it with less than a minute left this this this one was quite literally like to an i felt this was directly to me or it felt like this was like a directly personal. I feel like I just dipped for the first time on the Gravitron at the carnival.

Yeah.

Disney and puking everywhere. There's a town carnival in Situate Harbor every year.

And the Gravitron, it's like in the summer and everyone's, that's like,

I think the first time I dipped was in the summer at the carnival.

You go inside and there's no parents around.

Does everybody have a Gravitron?

Because I had a Gravitron too. Gravitron, yeah.
Is it the same Gravitron that just goes around the country? I think so. Are there multiple Gravitrons? And the first time you dip is just...
Pukes it. Yeah.
What was it? I had braces too. I'm trying to remember.
That's why I stopped. I never...
I dipped twice and puked. Grizzly.
Very bad. Grizzly.
Grizzly wintergreen. Kodiak grape.
Mine was Copenhagen. Oh, fancy boy.
That's hard body. It's hard body.
It was at a varsity football game. I was in eighth grade, and everyone puked, and then we're like, I can't wait to do this again.
Yeah. That rocked.
My head is buzzing. We should get a Gravitron for the office.
I'm down. Yeah, let's do it.
How much do you think a Gravitron costs? I'm going to guess. Pug is really way better.
I think it's more. I think it's like $129,000.
Pug is way better at this than Max. Googling.
I think some of the things you said to me might apply to some other people, too. What do you mean? Oh, Max being the lightning rod that well no he's uh and he's like the smaller lightning rod that you pass your lightning off to him wait max is a smaller one yeah it's crazy that it happened for me 48 000 i mean let's get one we need the we need a soft serve machine first we're just turning this into a I need the soft serve machine..
We're just turning this into a state fair.

I need the soft serve machine.

Where would we put it?

On the roof?

Rooftop Gravitron?

Where do you want to put it?

Okay, 45 passengers.

Gravitron.

I mean, we could probably rent one and put it in.

We could do like a carny day.

What are you shaking your fucking head? Don't shake your fucking head.

We have square footage for a fucking Gravitron. What if we did a day where we did it in the parking lot? We certainly do have enough square footage.
Look at that. It's, what, 55 feet wide? We have a basketball court.
Yeah, but we do like to play basketball on it. Once you get the Gravitron, it makes basketball a little bit harder.
Yeah. But, I mean, we use the basketball court for other things.
Hank takes it over for putt-putt golf two weeks a year. Yeah, I do.
Yeah, he does. So we can do this for like three days.
Yeah, do it for your little science fair too. A Gravitron cup.
Yeah, we can... Who can stay on it long enough without puking.
Yeah, marathon. And the person who stays on it long enough gets the Gravitron.
I like that. They just gotta figure out how to get it out of here.
It's now officially yours right now. Yeah.
Stay long enough. Okay.
Let's do some Hot Seat Cool Throne, and then we'll get to our interviews. Hot Seat Cool Throne is brought to you by our friends at Body Armor.
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The strawberry banana, the absolute best. Okay, hot seat, cool throne.
Hank, hot seat. What is it? Give it to us, Hank.
What's your hot seat? My hot seat. I didn't know whether I was thinking about switching up my hot seat and cool throne depending on on how the wording goes, but I'll go with the hot seat.
Tell us what you were thinking. Give us both and we'll tell you which one should go to which.
Okay. My hot seat.
My first one was PFT. Okay.
That should be cool. Okay.
And then my cool throne was going to be controversies surrounding

ESPN personalities. Okay, so

hot seat, you're right. Go ahead.

So hot seat is the cool throne.

No, no. You have the right

hot seat. I don't know why.

PFT and Max. Yeah, hot seat

PFT and Max. We were having the

guy off talking about who's got

the best guys, Celtics, anyone else

in the rest of the league.

And this came across my desk courtesy of my stats and research department. Oh, no.
And the Athletic did a poll where they polled NBA players and they asked who they think is going to win the championship. 57.7% said the Boston Celtics.
Hank, what we're seeing here from Hank is a terrible attempt to reframe the conversation. It's guys think that the Celtics have the best guys.
No, and Hank, what you're doing right now is this narrative you're trying to put out there is completely false. Let me just cut that down at the bottom.
You guys being like confused why I'm confident with my team. The guy off, Hank, was the players in the league who are playing the games 57.7 percent.
Okay, may Iort sure permission to rebut i would also like a rebuttal okay uh well tell you what i'll just talk to big cat because you're not going to listen anyways okay uh the guy off was because hank said guy for guy everyone on the celtics is better than everyone on the thunder yeah that's crazy we went down the list and found it. This is where it's like you have dementia.
Those words did not leave my mouth. You're just saying.
I said, let's go guy for guy. I'm calling Max.
I'm calling Max. Guy for guy.
He's probably eating meatballs. I said, let's go guy for guy.
I did not say every guy. While he calls Max, can I have a sidebar with you, Hank? It was frustrating me on Sunday.
Don't tell him. What? You're going to tell him what he should have said? No, I'm going to tell him, well, maybe something different.
But Sunday... Well, that you're picking all Celtics bench players.
No, no, no. Sunday, when we're doing the show, I was getting very frustrated.
Because in this room, I got no playoff teams. Max got no playoff teams.
PFT basically trolled you about your your confidence and then he went on to say that the Capitals are playing great and all this why didn't you just say to him who are you scared of PFT and hold his feet to the fire with the Capitals because I'm not a troll I want PFT I was waiting for it the whole time he literally was like putting it up on a tee for you, and I was sitting there like, Hank, now's when you hop in and just hold him to these comments as well. You go down the list.
But I'm not going to fake like I know NHL like he does with NBA. I'm not going to be like, oh, let's go guy for guy.
Let me read the roster and then just say, I don't know who you should be scared of, but I'm not going to pretend like I do. I'm not an NBA expert, but I do watch the association, and I do know some guys on the Thunder that could be better than guys on the Celtics.
Can I say that I am so scared to tweet about hockey because of people just jumping down? There was a save in the Stars-Avs game, and it was an awesome save, and I was about to tweet that was an awesome save, but I was just waiting for people to be like, dude, actually that was a routine save.

Yeah.

Because I don't fucking know.

It looks cool to me.

This happens every night in hockey.

Basketball I feel fine on.

Did you see Nick Batum's no dip three?

Silky smooth.

Also, now that you bring it up, I've been thinking for the last hour

since we taped the NHL recap that my mentions tomorrow are just going to be like,

dude, you don't even know the difference between Charlie Lindgren and Logan Thompson.

And that's going to be tough how could you that's going to be that's going to that's going to be a tough morning how dare you i was i was looking at a graphic from like tnt or one of the uh networks that posted the the playoff schedules and i looked at it for like 10 minutes seeing where i was missing the bruins

hey max and that's how i found out they weren't in the playoffs i'm like i'm like ready to hop on the bandwagon hold on one second hang on one second you have to i mean that was actually live to tape on part my take i'm gonna put you on mute real quick he just said that he was looking at the schedule for the playoffs when they were released and that's how he found out the bruins weren't in the playoffs. Hey, what a sweetest second.
Where the fuck are we? Okay, Max, yeah, we're on part of my take. Number one sports podcast.
Pug's doing a great job behind the glass, looking stuff up real fast. First question, how is your butt? Butt is still bad.
I stopped puking, though. Okay, that's good.
Max, max uh second question why you're you have the you have the neurovirus and you're tweeting about meatballs in the middle of the day uh that was somebody else who did that from my twitter okay they're liking all those pictures too from your account i'm sure um the real reason why we want to talk to you was because hank and i were having a little, and he put both you and I on his hot seat. You were not there to defend yourself.
So he was talking about the guy-off that we had when we were talking about Thunder and the Celtics the other day. I told Hank that the entire premise of the guy-off was because he said, if you go down the list, there's not a single guy that you would take on the Thunder over

a single guy on the Celtics.

Can you confirm that that's true?

Or did I say that or did I say, do you want to go guy for guy?

I think the only one that he said was Shea and Tatum are a wash, but everything else

was...

But I didn't say the words.

At the start of the conversation, it was Hank saying every guy on the Celtics is better than every guy on the Thunder.

It was let's go guy for guy.

I think you may both be correct here.

I think you said let's go guy for guy, but it was under the assumption of...

No, if he says let's go guy for guy, that's not under the assumption that every single guy is better than every single guy. Well, if Hank says every guy on the Celtics is better.
And was trying to say that. But I never said the word.
That could be the assumption, though, that he would win the guy off. Not that every guy is better than every other guy.
No, he said every guy on the Celtics is better. So I said, well, then let's have a guy off to prove it.
This is actually insane. Let's go guy for guy.
Get back to your toilet. All right.
Bye. So where did we get here? Do we have to lose a lie? I'm not lying.
But again, if he's trolling you, just troll him back with the Capitals. I guess I'll have to figure out how to do that.
Get your research. That's a research.
Maybe learn French. Get them going.
Yeah, they'll be going. They're going.
What are the Lockwood writers? What are they? I don't know. It's just gas.
Oh, OK. Get gas to get some research going.
He does. He's my number one guy.
OK. All right.
Your cool throne. My cool throne is controversies with ESPN personalities.
Yeah. Big time ESPN personalities.
One's a little more serious than the other one, but it's worth noting. The first one is Shannon Sharp is being accused of rape, and he's saying he released sex messages, and he said he's releasing a full sex tape which is going to clear his name well he said that uh the sex tape that's about to be revealed is through his accuser's attorney which is jay busby and he's saying that they're going to drop a 30 second clip of the sex tape so shannon sharp said why don't you just release the entire sex tape and show the people the entire sex?

Yeah.

And he released some messages, which again, it's pretty, pretty wild times that this is like his defense is like, no, look at which I understand to an extent.

But it's, it's, uh, he's, he's on the hot seat.

This was right after the reports of him, like signing a hundred million dollar podcast deal.

I do think it's fair to say that context could matter in a sex tape for sure yeah i have uh like how big never mind this is one that i've opted out on so i'm i'm i'll i'm gonna wait to make a decision wait for one that no one cares about no one cares what my decision is but I'm going to okay to make a decision fair i think that's fair uh and the other one this was more just funny i think and it kind of we we talked about it on the show uh a few weeks ago or a month ago with the pat mcafee steven a thing and i said like i think there's beef and yeah i got a lot of mcafee fans being like no like they they overwhelmingly reached out the next day and were like, how are you saying this?

That's a lie.

Yada, yada, yada.

Paul Heyman was on the McAfee show. And I don't know if he has beef with McAfee or he was drunk or he just went.

Well, he's an entertainer first and foremost.

Scorched earth and basically was like, yeah, Pat, this was all the stuff Pat was saying

off air and just laying it all out there like he doesn't like Stephenven a he thinks uh steven a is overpaid and he should be making more he

doesn't uh he doesn't like you know dsbn tells him not to mention the podcast what does he do

he mentions the podcast like and mcfee was as visibly and as uncomfortable as i've ever seen

so i thought i thought that was all fair as an entertainer you bring him on you probably expect

him he's gonna say some wild card shit right the one thing I had a problem with, with Heyman, was he defied the sanctity of the blunt rotation. Yeah.
So this was... But he also accused him of puff, puff, puff, puff, puff, puff, puff, puff, puff, puff, take an edible puff, puff, puff.
Which is a hilarious accusation. Yeah.
But that's still... Words that are said in the cypher stay in the cypher yeah listen uh we like pat former co-worker friend of ours uh you paul heyman is one of those guys that if you invite him on your show he's going to he's going to make a mess of it like that's that's what he does he's this is his job he's a wrestling manager and he's like incredible on the mic so it it was an incredible clip.
Unbelievable. When Joe Buck has Artie Lang on, you got to expect him.
He's going to say that he's going to jizz on your chest. Right.
Paul Heyman is going to go crazy. Yeah, it was just a very – I mean, I felt bad for Pat in a way.
It was like that. No one wants to be in that situation, especially to PFT's point.
It's like you think you know a guy. You have conversations off air at a bar in a blunt rotation whatever when they just start saying that on air like that's the worst spot to be in yeah like if we're having a conversation about ball and then it gets brought up on the air and then yeah we hate each other yeah so actually now i'm actually kind of i'm actually probably just putting words in his mouth that he never said yeah he was he was being a troll yeah they're also the when he when he turned to the to the fan, he's like, you suck, but it was your mom that taught me.

I was like, I can't do anything about that.

He's probably dropped that line 50,000 times in his life.

And for the record, Hank, I'm not upset at you.

I still love you.

Okay.

But I think that you're misremembering the conversation.

I know you're misremembering the conversation.

If one of you were to have dementia, who would it be? that's easy all right uh pft uh my hot seat is anthony edwards he got fined fifty thousand dollars yeah for some comments that he made uh courtside at the lakers game yes told a fan that he uh he had a bigger dick than him probably true which could be true that's probably why the fine is only fifty thousand dollars and now that i think about it fifty thousand dollars to have this pretty cool clip go out is easily worth the price yeah absolutely like for pr value for anthony edwards he was like i have 200 million dollars and my dick is bigger than yours there's nothing that you can say to that yeah i mean he's i don't know they don't show the fan it'd be funny if the fan sued for slander or libel. Yeah.
He's like, actually, look at my hog. Yeah, let's...
Hog reveal. Plot twist, that fan, Jimmy Tatro.
Yeah. Massive dog.
Hog reveal. My cool throne is Jerry Jones.
Because Jerry Jones, people say that he's got a cold, almost dead heart. He actually said that he cried a couple months ago oh when luca got traded yes oh they asked him about the luca trade yeah i cried when they traded luca which is it's remarkable because they removed his tear ducts at least three surgeries ago yes but yeah i hope that this is just a never-ending series of asking anyone who has lived in dallas with any small semblance of fame what reaction was from the Luka trade.
And I hope it keeps going on for the next three years just so that Nico feels like a bigger piece of shit. It's the new JFK assassination from Dallas.
Where were you? What were you feeling? Someone's going to ask Scotty Scheffler. Yeah.
Has to. Yeah.
So that goes perfectly with my hot seat is Nico Harrison because he did a press conference finally. And one, I don't know if you guys saw, but as he left the press conference, the door was locked that he was trying to go out of, which was very funny.
Love that. Just a total cell phone.
And then, yeah, look at this. Watch this.
He's just like, you know, he's like, well, that was the can't get worse than that. That sucked.
Well, at least I'm not in this room anymore. And he like walks right up to the thing.
He's like, well, can't get worse than that. That sucked.
Well, at least I'm not in this room anymore.

And he walks right up to the thing and is like, oh, shit.

It's locked.

And then he also said he's never spoken ill of Luka at all.

That's just a lie.

That's not true.

That has to be a lie.

And then he also said that he didn't understand how much the fans liked liked luca i don't know how that's possible it's crazy he's charles barkley did go on he said he knew that they liked him but he didn't know how much yeah uh and and now the there's reports that the owner is pissed being like how did you not know how much they liked luca like i was supposed to tell you that it's a whole it's the best it's obviously the worst for Mavs fans it's the best though that Nico Harrison is just not getting off the hook like it's every fucking day this trade happened two and a half months ago and every day there's a new story on how stupid he is and like I said I said on Sunday, I will make sure for the entirety of the playoffs,

at least once a week on this show,

I will just say, fuck Nico Harrison.

He's a moron.

And I'll keep doing that.

But yeah, he's, I guess he's done with press conferences now.

I hope not.

Our goal is to never run away from the media.

That's, he literally did an entire press conference

where he didn't let anyone record anything.

I mean, all of his, all of his quotes are just so bad and so stupid. Two and a half quarters one.
Charles Barkley's like, you're my friend. I love you.
Just shut the fuck up and take the L. Like, it's over.
It's good advice. He said, I consider you a friend of mine.
Don't do any more press conferences. I don't even know what you're doing.
I really don't. The war is over, brother.
You take an L. Smart advice.
Did you see inside the NBA last night when Shaq shit himself? No. Oh, you didn't see that? No.
So it was after the Clippers game, and they're doing their wrap-up. To me, I was watching Puck.
In the middle of the conversation, he just gets up and trots off the stage. Yeah, watch this.
Watch the run he the stage oh yeah that's neurovirus you've been drinking i know hey take some matches with you yeah so he just leaves for like six minutes comes back and then he comes back and he goes it was uh it was number one ernie it was not that was not number one that was number two shack we know it and he's apparently been doing this olive oil thing, the olive oil cleanse, which that's a good punishment to give to somebody. Yeah.
All right. And then my cool throne is Kirk Cousins, because there was a headline that caught my eye on ESPN today.
And let me read the exact headline, because I want you guys to also have it. Sources, Cousins surprises at Falcons workout.
In that he showed up? Yes. Okay.
Because I clicked on it and I was like, oh shit, Kirk Cousins looking good. And it was like the whole story was just no one expected him to show up.
His presence was a nice surprise. I mean, Kirk Cousins, if nothing, the man is professional.
Yeah. He surprises at opening of Falcons voluntary workouts.
He will attend voluntary team activities. He's probably good at texting back.
Yeah. Probably responds to most emails.
Yeah. He's a pro's pro.
He's a pro's pro. Okay.
Let's get to our interviews. We got Todd McShay, which great intel, a little different than Daniel Jeremiah where we talked a little more uh like nitty-gritty of the guys with Daniel Jeremiah Tom McShay gave us a lot of insight on what he expects to happen on Thursday night trade-ups what teams are thinking what the Giants are thinking and then we have Packers head coach Matt LaFleur and then we will finish with FAQs okay before we get to Toddcshay talking some draft we are brought to you by our friends at truly truly unruly lemonade combines the high alc fun of truly unruly with everyone's favorite lemonade lemonade let loose eight percent abv 100 delicious four supercharged lemonade flavors bumpin blue razed Up Pineapple, and Wild Pink.
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They got a of different styles they also have like some fashionable boot looking shoes that look awesome and they feel great because they're heydude heydude.com go check them out today okay here he is todd mcshay okay we now welcome on our very very very good friend is very special guest uh it is todd mcshay It's draft week. He's at the ringer.
Now you can go listen to his show, the topic. She show at the ringer.
He's also got a newsletter. That's great.
So go check it out. Todd.
Great to see you look great. You're in the Hollywood studios in LA.
Out here in LA. Yeah.
So, all right. So it's draft week.
Before we talk about the actual draft will you be going will you have Varsillo in your beautiful studio this week or is he making you go to his house no no so here here's how it went he's not allowed in the studio we don't need the disruption right in the confusion um I texted him actually a while back and I was like I'm trying to call you pick up your pick up your phone and i gave him the you know like the town where where

it's like, we're going to go do something. I can't tell you what we're doing.
We're going to hurt some people. And I said on the text, I was like, I just need you to say whose car we take.
Yeah. And so we called back and I explained my concept, which was, I just want to take over your house and make day three Saturday inside the Rosilla.
Have you? Yes, we have. We have.
We've been to his new house. He's got a great squad.
We've been to all his houses. Yeah.
He's on his ninth Manhattan Beach house. It's like this great man cave overlooking the Pacific Ocean.
TVs everywhere. So we're going to go and we're going to eat his food, drink his drinks, and invade his house on Saturday for two hours, 3 p.m.
Eastern to 5 p.m. Eastern.
We're going to be there recapping the whole draft as the draft's going up. Wait, so he only gave you two hours? You don't even get to watch the whole draft with him? His only caveat was NBA playoffs.
Exactly, yeah. He's got his no-pad out.
So I'm going to try to get him to run a 40.

Bill Simmons and I are setting the over-under.

Bill added it six flat.

I said like 5'2".

So I'm going to try to get him to run a 40.

He reminded me that he has a squat rack in the house.

He does.

So maybe we can do the 225 bench press rack.

The squat rack that almost killed him.

Building it.

He got caught behind it.

No, he's under six. That's crazy.
That's disrespectful. I think that's disrespect i think he's built for power he's like a linebacker i could see him it's definitely gonna be a hamstring issue right yeah pulling up after 33 yards yeah once he realizes in his head where where the clock is at yeah he's like oh yeah i might as well just pretend i've got an injury right now he's got daniel jeremiah said we should run it in the sand for a built-in excuse.
He's got five. I'm going to say five-three.
He's got five-three speed. All right.
So this draft, we actually had DJ on on Monday talking about the draft. He was like, hey, it's not the best draft.
There's five or six blue chippers and a lot of starters how many of how many blue chippers do you have and is it a fair assessment to say this draft maybe is lacking a little bit of the uh sizzle we've had in the last couple of years here's how i look at it there there and i kind of do tears off of grades but let's break away from that for a second there's two guys that are at the top and that's travis hunter and ab and Abdul Carter. They're in their own tier, if you will.
Then after that, there's a handful of guys. But what's interesting is a lot of them are not in premium positions.
Ashton Jenty, running back, two tight ends in Tyler Warren and Colston Loveland. And then you look at the rest of the list.
Yes, there is. I think there's two edges that belong actually three I would probably throw in there with with Jalen Walker his teammate Michael Williams and Shamar Stewart but then also in that mix I would I would throw in Jihad Jihad Campbell from Alabama and Mason Graham interior off defensive lineman so that's kind of the range and Cam Ward would be up there as well in that that second tier if you will what's interesting man is like we're now like hours away from the draft right and and there's talk because of certain teams having specific needs and this happens every year but not not normally this high.
We get to four, New England's probably going to take Will Campbell. Will Campbell's the fourth or fifth best offensive lineman in the last year's draft.
The information I'm getting as we get closer, it could be Ashton Jinty at four for Jacksonville. It's not going to be Mason Graham, the defensive tackle for Michigan.
But the player that I keep hearing over and over again from people in the league and around

the league is Ted Roa McMillan, the wide receiver.

So if that's it, and the theory behind it is Trevor Lawrence, go back to 2018, 2019

at Clemson, two six foot four wide receivers, 4,000 receiving yards, 42 touchdowns to Justin Ross and T Higgins, those guys. And he's had smaller receivers at Jacksonville and he's been missing the target by a little bit.
Let's get him a big catch radius guy like Tet McMillan. It's six foot four.
And so if that's the case and now Campbell goes for Tet goes five, I'm told that that Las Vegas is going to take ashton jint at six. And so that could be an offensive tackle, Armand Membu.
Now you get to seven and all these guys. You ready? Mason Graham, still available.
Tyler Warren and Colston Loveland, still available. Jalen Walker, Shamar Stewart, Mikel Williams, all still available.
It's going to be – and Ashton Jinty.

How about the – I said, hey, Bears fans, wake up.

There's a scenario playing out right now as I'm talking to people in the league,

day in and day out, where the Bears come on the board at 10.

I don't want to get everyone all worked up,

but Ashton Jinty, Tyler Warren, and Colston Loveland are still available for them there. And is it Ashton Jinty in that spot? I mean, it feels like it.
I would think so. Wait, so you said something interesting there.
The Raiders are not going to take Ashton Jinty? Because I thought they were leaning that way, so that's what you're hearing. It's opposite? Exactly.
I think every mock draft in the world for about a month straight had two of the same players of the same teams. It was Mason Graham, Michigan defensive tackle, going to Jacksonville at five.
And one pick later was Ashton Gentry running back going to the Las Vegas Raiders at six. And I don't think either is happening.
Wow. So how would you compare Ashton Gentry with running backs in the first round from the last couple years, like Bijan Robinson or Gibbs?

Is he in that same class? Oh, absolutely. I actually think he's a better pure runner in terms of contact balance, churning out yards after contact, than Bijan Robinson.

There's been six running backs going to the top 10 in the last 10 years of the draft.

And Saquon's obviously one of them. Leonard Fournette and Christian McCaffrey were in 2017.
Go all the way back to, I think it was 2015 with Todd Gurley. So it's not unprecedented for a running back to go in the top 10.
He's certainly worth it in terms of the grade that he carries. But to me, Ashton Gentry, like, I haven't talked to any teams that view him not as one of the top six seven players in this draft and the fact that he could wind up falling to 10 to the bears would um obviously it's positional value but but absolutely worth the pick and would i just like part of me fell in love with the concept of of warren or colston with with Komet and cooking it up in the lab with Ben Johnson and 12 personnel.
But then you throw Ashton Jinty in the mix and taking the pressure off the quarterback position. If that's the scenario, they can't go wrong with the pick, and certainly they'd be thrilled to have him.
Because there was a scenario with Jacksonville – or sorry with with the raiders taking jinty at six and the jets potentially taking tyler warren at seven where colson loveland was the the best available at those positions at 10 for the bears and i i don't know that that's going to be the case anymore what if what if it's uh somehow mason graham ashen jinty at 10 which would be tough to have that happen, but is there a chance that Mason Graham falls to 10? Because I love Mason Graham. There's a chance.
I look at the Jets as a possibility at pick seven for Mason Graham. I wouldn't rule out Carolina at eight, but I don't know.
I think if he gets past five and gets past the Raiders at six, I think he could be on the board. I truly do.
That would be exciting. I saw a report earlier today that the Giants and the Browns are taking calls, taking calls on their draft pick.
I just got a text from an assistant GM in the league, and he's like, please try to ask around. And I just sent out some feelers, and I'm jumping out with you guys, and I'll make some more calls after.
Apparently, there have been calls, and that's not surprising. But apparently, someone's trying.
There's a team out there that, according to word, and people are trying to figure out how true it is and how valid it is but at this moment there's there's apparently a team out there that's putting a big offer to the cleveland browns to try to move up to number two to get travis hunter can we can we guess what team it is does it rhyme with uh the bosangeles largers um i don't don't know. That's why I was sending out texts before I jumped on with you.
There's some speculation. Maybe the Dallas Cowboys? Jerry did say he's looking at doing something either before or after the draft.
But it could happen, not in the middle of the draft. He said, we're looking at making, we're looking at two things, and these two things could happen either before or after the draft.
So it could be anything. It could be the Cowboys.
Yeah, and he said for a player. I saw that quote.
So that player could be Travis Hunter before the draft. So, I mean, it would fall in line, but it's definitely a wide open.
I mean, no shit, Jerry. Everyone's going to do something before and after the draft and try to get somebody.
Ideally, as long as you're still alive, then you can do something. So Jerry Jones confirms he will live through the weekend.
When I saw that report that the Giants and the Browns are taking calls, I just immediately thought they put that report out there so that they will start to take calls they're letting people know like please continue to contact us because we're listening i get it with the giants but you've known for over a month now that the cam ward's going number one so if you're cleveland and you've made the decision it's not quarterback and i know i I know that to, at two. And then you're – and you've got your choice between – I literally started this whole conversation with you guys talking about this year's class.
And I said there's two players that are in a group of their own. So at this point, you know – you're basically on the clock, and you know what the board looks like.
So why – the giants try because we can get to the giants in a second but there's some there's some dissension in the giants ranks and so maybe trading out of that spot if you're trying to appease the the head coach and brian dable and maybe get a quarterback you'd like to move back get a quarterback have an have an additional pick to try to plug some other holes. If that's truly the case, and again, we can get to the Giants in a second, but if you're Cleveland, you either know you want Travis Hunter, you've decided that, or you're looking at this and weeks ago, you would have been talking to other teams about potentially moving up to the number two spot.
It doesn't make sense that they would be putting out the feelers. It would make sense if the Giants were kind of reaching out, hey, any interest here? Right.
Right. So speaking of the Giants, you know front offices better than anyone.
You have a bunch of sources. You talk to a bunch of guys.
The Giants feel like they're in that specific spot where it's a coach that's on the hot seat that is most likely going to get fired unless they have a crazy turnaround uh same with the gm the owner's probably getting impatient because they've had some really bad seasons and it's like not giants football and will they take a reach and take a shador sanders knowing that buys them maybe an extra year like when you see that happen it happens every single year in the nfl is there ever a office is like hey we're not doing this like we're not going to do this this is stupid what why are we letting ourselves just do something so quickly just to for self preservation here let me let me give you a couple things pieces of insight here um first of all I was actually mildly surprised to hear as of Sunday, my, my information is that, that John Mara, the Mara family, they have not gotten involved. And I don't mean they're not involved in the process.
I mean, they're not saying we need to do this, or we really would like to take Shador at three or really would like to take out there. They're letting the people they hired work out the decision second part is everyone got all worked up they're grabbing the maraplane and they're flying to uh boulder on thursday of last week uh tuscaloosa on friday for jalen milro tyler shuck in louisville on saturday what you know is it going to be shit but no one wanted to talk about the milro and shuck part or the fact that they worked out dark the week before.
The face of this draft is Shador Sanders. So everyone media-wise was on – you know, it's still in play at three.
What I can tell you is this, according to my sources, and honestly I've been saying it for two weeks on the show, if you hire Brian Dableable you did so because he is one of the handful not dozens handful of human beings on this planet in the nfl that actually know how to develop quarterbacks and actually can get the best out of them and actually have a like a brilliant offensive mind okay and i don't care if this quarterback outlasts Brian in his tenure. I don't care what the wins and losses are.
Brian can flat out frigging coach, man. I like, I I'm telling you, this guy is at a very high level in the NFL in terms of offensive coaching.
I believe that. So, so you've got this man who's one of just a handful in the league in your building.
He's the smartest man the room and for some reason there's some people in the scouting department that don't that that prefer Shador but the guy who's going to coach him that's great at doing that is not a Shador guy apparently and I say that because I've heard that from sources and I also have said that even before I had sources on it because I know Brian I know his style his style, I know his history. We know Josh Allen.
We know Jalen Hurts, I think, at Alabama. He's Jackson Dart fits the mold for him.
Sturdy, mobile, bigger arm than Shador's doesn't have to have a rifle, but like he just fits the mold. And so whether it's Shador or Tyler Shuck or maybe a developmental project in, you know, day two with Jalen Milrow, that fits a lot more than Shador, especially in that climate and that division.
So I'm hearing now that he wants to take a quarterback at three or maybe move down from that spot and take a quarterback. He'd like to make sure they get their guy.
but I also have heard and i and it lines up with my football senses that it's not shador okay so maybe i'm hopeful that this organization is smart enough to say well brian's the guy we got to lean on with the quarterbacks we'll handle all the rest of this and and it'll be fascinating to see maybe that's part of the reason why there's talk of calls to number three. Maybe move back down, take Jackson Dart a little bit later, get an additional pick or two, however that works out.
But that's kind of the backdrop on everything that's going on in that Giants organization. And I'm just hopeful.
I mean, he had to live through Daniel Jones. He got the best.
When Daniel Jones actually could stay healthy for a minute, he got the best out of Daniel Jones. Imagine he gets to handpick his guy and develop him

and not have to rush him out there year one with Russell Wilson there

and with Jameis Winston there.

That's the direction I would go.

And if I was the Mara family and I had to get involved at all,

I'd be like, you let him make the quarterback decision.

You guys make the rest of them.

So let's say, hypothetically, they stay at their pick, they make their pick, and they don't take a quarterback. They might want to move back up, maybe late on in the first round, to draft that quarterback with a second first round pick.
Do any owners, and I guess with the mirrors specifically, would they say, hey, no, we don't want to trade all this away to move up so that you can take a quarterback because you're kind of mortgaging the future. And drafting a quarterback kind of feels like it could be an effort to save your job, like Big Cat was saying.
Getting a working quarterback in. Are there any owners that will say – that will shut that down and say, no, I don't think this is a good idea? Yeah, but then you're basically saying, like, this is your last year as my head coach right you might as well fire him yeah or this is my your last year is my gm joe shane so um i don't know the inner workings exactly how that would go i've heard unbelievably wild stories of ownership and last minute making decisions that didn't align with what the personnel department and what the coaching staff wanted dan sider and jay gruden But but again i do want to emphasize because there's been a lot of speculation that as of sunday um the mayors are are letting letting the football people handle the football stuff so far i i would like to think that if they do go abdul carter at three that they would be wise in where they tried to move up.
And if Dart's the guy that Brian Dabo wants, then you go up and get Dart. You secure him at 25, let's say, with the Vikings, who only have four picks in the entire draft, the fewest of any team in the league.
So that's kind of how I look at this. The other part is, and we haven't even gotten to this where's shador going yeah and why and and why why and if shador because 21 sitting there and everyone thinks because the same the same principles apply with kellen moore and new orleans at nine i don't think it's going to be quarterback at nine i i am fairly certain Kellen Moore does not want Shador, that he would be a Jackson Dart guy as well, or maybe a Tyler Shuck.
Based off of his last three jobs as OCs were with Dak Prescott, Justin Herbert, and Jalen Hurts. Those are Dart types of players or Tyler Shuck types of players.
Shador doesn't have a lot of love right now, man. And listen, Baker Mayfield was like, what, plus 2,000 to be the number one overall pick the night before.
Michael Penix, none of us knew that Michael Penix was going to be the pick for Atlanta a year ago. So we've seen this over and over again.
There's a team lurking, I'm sure, that has more interest in Shador in round one than we know of right now but i'm also told and this is the fascinating part mike tomlin does like shador and there's love for shador in that building but it's a softer floor because everyone said well that's the floor for shador 21 it's a softer floor than people want to um admit to right now or maybe people understand right now and so if it's not 21 or not 21 or if Pittsburgh's trying to trade back out of that, that spot at 21, because they don't have a second round pick after the DK trade, where should door going? And so is it going to be a situation where it's like, Oh, Oh, you know, like Cleveland at 33 giants at 34, new Orleans at 40. We've got private planes have been crossing over each other in the air the last couple of weeks.

Workouts with Dart and Chuck and Milrow and Shador.

So maybe everyone just holds off and waits.

And maybe we only have one quarterback drafted in the first round.

In fact, like talking to people who are really in the know, even more than I am in the know,

there's a growing sense that it's more likely that one quarterback gets drafted in the first round than three. Wow.
So, all right. So what do you, though, think about Shador as a prospect? Because you're going to go head-to-head with your childhood friend and our boss, Dave Portnoy, who said that he is putting his foot on, like, stamping his getting on the soapbox, line in the sand, Shadur Sanders is going to be a great pro, pro bowl type player.
Where you land on Shadur Sanders as a player? Yeah, I mean, Portnoy and I have been fighting since we're nine years old. He's a very accomplished scout.
Get out of here. Well, he also then, then our own company found, I think it was Mac Jones, Daniel Jones, and then there was one other.
Maybe it was Johnny Manziel where he's like, I'll put my reputation on these guys. Right.
He's like the cat with the lives, right? He just gets to keep drawing lines in the sand, and then it gets – That's what happens to the line in the sand. It gets swept away.
Yeah. So I like Shador.
I'm not lying in the sand. Like, I like Shador, but I'm all like, can we have some intelligence with the conversation? The intelligence is like, I don't want him in a system that doesn't fit him.
It's like so much of this is about where they land. And I know no one wants to talk about it because it's not sexy and fun pre-draft.
But if you told me that he went to Cleveland, even in that weather and playing in that division, if you told me he went to Cleveland and had a year or two, and he doesn't even need it as much as some of the other guys do. But if he had a little time, wasn't forced in right away and had Kevin Stefanski, like I i told you kellen moore is is is dark shuck brian dable's dark shuck kevin stefanski has won games with guys which aren't the biggest aren't the most mobile don't have the biggest arm but process and like lightning fast and are accurate throwing the ball and get the ball out quickly in that west coast system

and lead receivers to yards after catch that's what chador is so stefanski would be perfect for i mean he won 11 games with kirk cousins uh who was it mcnow and who was the quarterback before he won 10 or 11 games so he's one guy won games a lot of games with guys that don't have that great mobility size arm strength.

I think he'd be perfect with Shador,

but I haven't heard anything on Cleveland. Yeah.
And in fact, I was told, do not expect Cleveland to trade up. If someone falls in their lap, yeah, but don't expect them to trade up, which would be interesting, too, because if you do stick and pick it, too, and you get his teammate, Travis Hunter, and everyone's sitting there we're pick 24 or 25 yeah where's cleveland you know so that'll be fascinating to watch too yeah i could see the steelers on the clock at 21 there the camera is live on them in the war room and mike tomlin picks up the phone but it's a call from aaron rogers who's drafting himself onto the steelers just letting them know hey i made my decision.
I'm ready to say I'm going to play. I thought for a while it was going to be Aaron announcing that he was going to Pittsburgh at that big night out or whatever it was for McAfee.
I did too. That didn't happen.
And then we had the McAfee interview. Yes.
And my guy Mench was saying all along, you know, he's going to be in Green Bay. He did it did it.
I was in Cleveland. I'll never forget.
We're getting ready for the draft. We got all these hits for SportsCenter and NFL Live getting ready and previewing it, and what are we hearing, and where are you guys going to go? And all of a sudden, it's like everyone stepped down.
You know, Schefter, come on up. And it was Aaron Rodgers for like an hour and a half leading up to the draft.
Yeah, yeah. So that wouldn't shocked me, but I kind of think it's, we're going to go through like a little dead period.
And I think, I think that he will be true to what he was saying and he needs a little time, but we'll, we'll have to see. So one, one guy we haven't talked a lot about because he's a presumptive number one overall pick Cam Ward to the Titans.
He's been just glazing his teammates on the Titans on live streams. I don't know if you've seen that, but a good teammate.
I would say good teammate on his part. But can you just tell us what you project him as, as an NFL quarterback? Because it's just been, yeah, he's going to go number one overall.
And then we move on to try to figure out what every other team's going to do. But in terms of him as a player for the Titans, how would you have him graded in some of the, you know, the last handfuls of drafts?

I think the conversation would have started at QB four last, last year with Cam Ward. I think with the other guy with Shador and Dart, it would have started probably at QB if I'm being honest QB six, but, but for most people QB seven, I didn't have Bo Nix as high as some other, I had a second round grade on Bo Nix.
So I was wrong on that so far. but Cam

when you watch the tape and you study the cut-ups of him in rhythm, on time, when he gets to the top of his drop, foot in there, receivers where he's supposed to be and drives it, he's an absolute sniper. And I think that's what Brian Callahan is looking at.
And like, I'm going to channel that guy. Just like when Andy Reid and Brett Veach, the GM for the Chiefs, watched Patrick Mahomes and he's drifting and kind of just throwing from every arm angle.
And it was an absolute mess at Texas Tech, but a beautiful mess, but still a mess, you know. They saw when you go and you isolate those clips when he's actually in rhythm and running within the you know the constructs of the offense it was brilliant and it's the same thing with cam and i think brian callahan the coach is is absolutely qualified to help in his development he started his career with peyton Manning in.
Matthew Stafford, he spent a lot of time with, right? He obviously, Joe Burrow brought them to the Super Bowl. So he's been around greatness.
I mean, like the highest level greatness at the quarterback position and has helped in the process along the way, learned and helped. So I like that fit.
And I think Cam needs channeling patrick mahomes needed channeling but they both share a similar trait and i'm not doing the mahomes and cam ward thing here i'm not i'm just saying they're special one of the special traits for cam is that like he feels the pressure knows it's coming but he's going to let you take another step or two towards him because then you're you're you're leveraged out like it's like the old and out the way instead of some of these other guys you watch the panic the drifting the the racing out of the pocket and things get scrambled he's unbelievably calm and and and he is thinking a step ahead and i think if you channeled what he does in terms of in the pocket on time and then you allow allow him to still utilize those traits when the initial play breaks down you could have something pretty special with camp yeah uh who are the what are the wild card teams on Thursday night what are the teams that were like hey we don't know what they're gonna do they could trade up uh it might not be a drastic trade like going up to two or three, but you've heard they're going to move around or they might love someone that's going to shock people. Are there any of those teams out there? The Houston Texans, there's some noise that they're trying to move up for an offensive lineman, okay? Dallas is going to be interesting.
You just kind of sensing that something's going on there. A lot of people have thought Ted McMillan to Dallas at 12.
Now we're here in Jacksonville. I don't know if that would, that would, you know, force their hand and they would, they like them that much.
I've got them ranked 50th on my board. I like, I see the talent.
There's a lot of other stuff I don't trust with Ted McMillan. So we'll see about that.
Philadelphia, Howie Roseman can't sit still. So whether it's moving up, moving back at 32.
But I do think Mason Taylor's an intriguing prospect for them with Dallas Goddard and the situation there. And the Rams, the Rams, could that be a quarterback team where they just all of a sudden out of nowhere decided, yeah, we're going to take Jackson to Artifese there? Yeah.
So obviously with Stafford and his situation, I don't plan on that, but it's just something to keep an eye on. Okay.
Are there any guys from smaller schools that you're keeping your eye on? Gray Zabel, one of my favorites in this draft. North Dakota State.
Think like Teron Armstead, Cody Mock, Quinn Miners. All these guys show up at the Senior Bowl, have awesome weeks, disprove the small school level, and go on to have really brilliant careers and get drafted in all sorts of different ranges, but go on to have really good careers.
Gray Zabel moves differently than every interior offensive lineman in this draft i think he could go as high as 18 to seattle okay all right okay what about uh your qbs so how do you have your qbs ranked and then maybe give us the qb that you love that's ranked in the let's say four to eight range or five to eight range where you're like hey this is a project but this is someone that i could see you know a team taking a shot at third fourth round where it's like this could be a guy sometime soon so i've got cam ward one jackson dart two shador sanders three tyler shuck four jalen milro five okay and will will howard six um tyler shucks one favorites, man. And I got to spend a little bit of time with him at the Combine.
He's 25, going to be 26 during the season, I believe. He had three season-ending injuries, all bone breaks.
Injury-prone, you could call them, or fluke injuries. When he first started out at uh at oregon he's been three different schools seven years in college he was in he was in the recruiting class with trevor lawrence he was the backup to justin herbert at oregon his freshman year he's been around that long those guys are like going you know second contracts and all that he's matured a lot and i i no one wants to hear the touchy-feely fun stuff with quarterbacks, but you've got to know who you are as a human being if you're going to take over an organization, be handed the keys at some point in a year or two, and look in that huddle.
If you do huddle in grown-ass men, they're looking back at you and got no time for some pup. He's had football.
He was carted off the field, thought he would never play again. He's just been through a lot.
And I look at him, and I'm like, the biggest negative I have in talking to teams, this is the problem. Seven years in this age, but only one year of starting experience, one full year at Louisville this past year.
but he's with the brahm brothers who know how to you know coach quarterbacks he's developed unbelievably well in the past year year plus and he but he can step in and i think he's going to shock people when he plays he's bigger than the rest of these quarterbacks he's got a stronger arm than the probably the rest of these quarterbacks maybe maybe the same level as Cam Ward. He's faster on a straight line than all these guys outside of Jalen Milrow, the top four guys for me.
He's the fastest of all of them when he tucks and runs. The traits are there.
The experience is there. The maturity is there.
I would love to see him, whether it's the Giants with Brian Dable, the New Orleans Saints picking at 40. One of those teams is not going to wind up with Shadour, is not going to wind up with Jackson Dart.
And I would love to see him with one of those two spots with an opportunity in a year to take over the reins and see what he can do. I think he's going to be a big surprise at this class.
Interesting. What about the wide receivers? How do you have them ranked?

I'm way different than a lot of people in this class. I like that.
Yeah, it's good. Way different.

I've got number one

receivers, Matthew Golden. Route running

crispness

4-2-9 40-yard

dash. Second fastest player at the

combine. And the questions about him

is the top end speed? Great. He's not great after the catch in terms of making guys miss, but if he catches a crease, he's gone.
Vertical speed, adjusts to the ball. I like golden one.
Then the big surprise probably for most people would be Jalen Knoll from Iowa State. I've got him at number two at the wide receiver position.
He is so explosive. he's undersized yeah he's probably gonna be a slot like that fine but but like look at lad McConkie last year and what he came in like he's probably gonna have to be a slot I don't know and McConkie was one of the best rookie receivers in the class it was like legendary for rookie production and wide receiver so I think Noel is going to be probably a second round pick he's not getting to the third, but not going to be in the first.
So a second round pick. And, um, and I think he's going to weigh out, weigh out, play his, his draft slot.
After that, I've got a Mecca Abuka from Ohio state, another probably slot receiver, but consistent, a lot of production. And then I like the other Iowa state two guy, uh, to the Jaden Higgins big six three plus physical receiver great getting off the press those are my top four and and Tett McMillan is is down there and at number 50 overall as I said and then Burden because that's like yeah Luther Burden I actually have before Tett and Luther Burden comes with a handful of stuff and red flags and all that but But he's not Debo.
Everyone wants to say he's Debo. But I get the comp in that he's physical, explosive after the catch, versatile.
You can do a lot of different things with him. Never going to be your best route runner.
But if you can get him the football, he's going to make a lot of plays. I don't know if you watch the same film I watched, but as a scout, Tett had this one catch.
He wasn't wearing pads, big deal, but he jumped up in the air, caught it, and then put the ball between his legs before he landed. Did you see that? And if you haven't – I did.
Did that change your mind at all? Clearly not. Okay.
Because I just turned in my final top 300. We'll post tonight the McShay Report.
Google it. Subscribe, people.
Come on. Club McShay-Shay.
Give us – Maybe not. Maybe not right now.
Yeah, not right now. No.
No, that's right. You shouldn't have laughed.
I'm in trouble. Give us another guy who may be in the second or third round, any position that you love and you're like, when you hear this name, because that's what we love about the drafts.
It's like we're all going to sell ourselves on whatever ends up happening. Yeah.
Be like, this is a guy.

But if you hear it first from McShay, it's just confirmation bias.

Whoever's listening and rooting for that team, they're like, yeah, McShay said that.

JT Tuimolalao.

I've had to practice that name.

Tuimolalao from Ohio State.

I just like him.

I think I had prospect fatigue over time.

The first report I wrote on him was in the summer of 2022. We're now going in the summer of 2025.
So it was the same guy over and over again, but this year he took it to another level. This year's draft, I agree with Daniel Jeremiah.
It's not great at the top. There's not as many elite players at the top as you'd like to see.
But teams looking for starters and if you're a base 4-3

defense plug in like he's going to be seven nine sacks a year batted down passes effort gap can like he is nothing like overly sexy about his game but he's going to be one of those guys who like eight nine years in we're like he's still doing it at a high level right i like jtt um I think Trav henderson if put in the right spot like the jameer gibbs spot that he was put in has got a chance to be special don't rule him out as a um as a first round draft pick in fact i've talked to teams that have him rated higher than omari and hampton oh and there's a growing sense that he could wind up being rb2 in this class so that that's intriguing um elijah arroyo like we so much time has been spent on tyler warren and colston loveland and rightfully so and mason taylor could sneak in at 32 right there's gonna be a team that gets arroyo out of miami if he can stay healthy, which you could say about every prospect, but he's had struggles with durability. He is so explosive and like his ability to get down the seam, run routes down the field.
He's, he's like a different level. And, and the thing normally these like Kelsey types, the F tight end, the, you know, flex out tight end, they don't block all that well.
This guy's got some prick in him, man. Like he loves it.
He will embarrass you on tape. So I think Arroyo is going to wind up really outplaying where he winds up getting drafted, which is probably going to be somewhere in the 40s or early 50s.
But I think Arroyo is an absolute player. Where do you see the Washington Commanders going this year because they're an interesting team on paper they make the NFC Championship game but then you look at the roster and you think to yourself they they do have a lot of holes they've got a lot of places that they have to they have to get much younger at because we've been you know doing one year rentals on a lot of people so what direction do you see them going I think edge is a spot that they'd like to be able to go.

I don't think they're stuck drafting there.

We've got a bunch of guys who are going to come off the board,

and I think earlier than people expected, now that I'm talking to teams,

I think it's going to be Carter at three, Abdul Carter at three.

I think Jalen Walker is going to go maybe as early as the Jets at six,

and if not, a couple picks later. I think williams could go as early as let's say

eight to to um carolina i think samar stewart could go shortly thereafter maybe it's nine to the saints i think james pierce could go like 15 to atlanta mike green maybe 17 to cincinnati and all of a sudden you look up you're like shit we're pick 18 and we said what i just list off like seven guys yeah so i don't know there's going to be like donovan s oraku um from bc is really really a savvy proficient edge rusher i just don't know that he's got that like he's shorter he's not the fastest most explosive guy i think he's probably going to be early too why not why not travion henderson there yeah yeah it would make sense like i get it like cornerback edge or bigger needs but if if jade baron and and will johnson and maxwell harrison are all off the board and all those edges are off the board and you can't trade back um i don't know like i get it just getting a weapon in the passing game and adding that with Brian Robinson, what you already have. I think he's got a chance to elevate like Gibbs did, maybe not quite to that level, but to take an offense that's explosive and just a little more nudge where now you've got to account for this guy who's a 4-4, catches the ball out of the backfield, will protect too.
He and his buddy, Quinshot Judkins, their pass protection tape is fun to watch. So I could see Henderson as someone who's on the short list as a possibility.
Yeah, I mean, Eckler did a pretty good job with that last year, but he's not getting any younger. And on third down for Jaden, he likes he likes to find the running backs move the sticks that would make a lot of sense to me i i would personally like to see malachi starks i love watching that i can see that jeremy chin's gone yeah um the the safeties are i mean you you talk about polar opposites like of the spectrum right you've got nick eman war he's like 6'3 220 uh like broke the broad jump record at the combine by like four inches and had the best uh over 200 pounds like the the best uh vertical jump of any player ever except just insane workout and his tape is really good and interesting but like you talk about the kind of the football character stuff and, and the focus issues and kind of in and out of things and aggressiveness in the run support.
So there's this like balancing act with him. The traits are unbelievable, but what are we, are we sure that this is a first round town, a first round guy that we want to bring in? Then you get Starks.
Who's like Kirby smart talks about him almost as glowingly as nick saban talked about will anderson a couple years ago okay um just loves ball team first prepare does all the little things smooth move on tape is beautiful moving smooth and and and like aggressive and plays fast and comes up and hits and all the things and he he's a first-round talent on tape. But then he worked out and it was like third worst this, second worst this, like among the safeties in the class and didn't run very well.
And so I do think the safeties, if they come off the board in the first round, will be very late, like that 27 to 32 range. But I could see a scenario too where neither guys gets drafted by the end of night one yeah yeah are you are you a guy that puts any stock into uh drafting captains like you give a little bonus like a gold star if they're a captain on their college team you get my attention when you're like a three-year captain yeah okay and you get my attention when you've transferred in from somewhere and you're immediately you earned a captain.
You were able to in that little window of like three, four or five months become a captain before the week one of the season. But there's a lot of captains out there.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'd prefer a captain over a non-captain. Yeah.
All right. I got one last question for you.
Always been awesome having you on, Todd.

Go check out the Todd McShay

show on Ringer. You're going to have to watch

Ryan Russillo hopefully run a

40-yard dash on Saturday

live from his house.

Last question, Roback question.

RHOBACK.com, promo code TAKE. 20% off

your first purchase. Q-Zips, polos,

hoodies, joggers, shorts, Roback.com,

promo code TAKE. I think we've asked this before, but I want to ask it again

just because it's fun to look back. What was your number one, like, I nailed that and no one else had it, and your number one, I was way off on this person and I should have realized it? I hate when it's the negative stuff, but I still go back to Brady Quinn

and Tim Tebow.

Brady Quinn.

Was it Quinn?

No, it was Clausen with Kuyper.

Yeah, Clausen with Kuyper, yeah.

I had a good run on shutting Kuyper down on some quarterbacks.

Yeah.

Clausen and Quinn.

I think he had an agent who represented some of those Notre Dame guys. Bump up but i mean i got him to promise to retire and he's still going yeah that didn't work out but what was your best what's your number one where you're like i had that guy before everyone else before everyone else or you or you were you were different like say for example this year if year, if your wide receiver board turns out to be correct,

you'll be vindicated because everyone has Tet going as the best, and you have him as the fifth.

I had Malik Nabors last year, the number one receiver.

That's good.

If that matters anything.

Yeah, although Brian Thomas was very good.

Yeah, Brian Thomas was very good.

Marvin Harrison Jr. will be very good.

I don't know.

I don't like to sit here and pat my back on it. Yeah, pump yourself up.
I still like – yeah, I don't know. I'll say this.
The quarterbacks have always been the hardest. Like Bo Nex last year I talked about.
Jamarcus Russell was the one the was the one obviously but there were a lot of people in the league that didn't like jamarcus i had the wrong information my goodness i've never talked about learning a hard lesson early on when he's on his knee like throwing 60 yards hitting the goal post and you're you're like a 25 year old scout or sent sent from espn to do the first pro day ever and you see that and you're like oh my god yeah how could this go wrong yeah and then and then when he's sitting in the sideline doing interviews and sitting on the ground and media is coming up and putting the microphones in front of him and i ask i'm asking people at lsu like what why is he sitting like oh he's just chill you know he's like relaxed and that's part of the reason he's so good and it turns out like no that dude's just lazy yeah yeah yeah so yeah okay i like what you said about bo nicks too i was i'm wrong so far yeah on bo nicks yeah what's the year how many years do you give it until you like after After three. Then you give it up.
Although Sam Darnold, I'm still like Sam Darnold.

I love you buddy you know like i had i loved sam darnold in that class loved him so you're still you're still holding on a little bit of stock you're being like i didn't know best quarterback in the league for like 12 12 13 weeks last year it's true it's true so so it's coming around so if you're were going to give up after year three, usually by year three, but not always.

I do kind of feel bad for the scouts that spend all year studying guys, certain guys,

and they fall in love with these guys.

And they're like, I need you on my team.

And then some other team swoops in and takes them beforehand.

How are you supposed to detangle yourself from that relationship that you've built up?

You've watched every play he's made. You've hung out with him.
No, I know. You've met his family.
And now you're like – It's real, man. It's real.
And that's why every team gives, whether it's the gold star, the red star, the red dot, they allow their scouts to go up to the board and be like, pick your one. Pick your guy.
And they do their best in the right situation. And they'll take it over a player with a similar grade and all that um but they do get to know them like these scouts man like i know no one wants to hear it and cry me a river they work for nfl teams but like what they get paid for the work they do talking to them now like i've talked to a good friend who's in the southeast and like it used to be like 12 13 players in the summer they're evaluating, and now like NIL and Transfer Portal and guys all over the place.
At Ole Miss, it was 12 or 13, and this year he had 30 players he had to write up in the summer. It's not just like watching tape.
It's like you said, like getting to know the background, like all the history, who's in charge of this guy. Now who's the agent of this guy what deals it's it's a lot of work that goes into all these individuals in a in a region and then you hand pick a few guys that you like absolutely love you believe in you present that to the general manager and they and they do their best but odds are i mean maybe you get one or two guys at best from your entire region in a draft and and then you're looking at these reports, like a binder this big, and files, and it's all gone.
Yeah, I do that before. A wild professional.
Yeah, it is. There should be a Scout of the Year award, because we don't celebrate the Scouts.
Actually, we'll give it to us. Yeah, we'll give it to us.
For John, we picked Josh Allen. Yeah.
I'll never forget. That was one of my one of my i mean obviously we did like the combine together and all but that was the first time being out in a real setting professionally with you clowns what is going on with you guys are like going up to like gms and coaches yeah you saw his arm right yeah passing out the sheet at that, no one really knew what your whole deal was.
And media was staunch back then. Yeah.
You had to have permission and go through certain channels to talk to a general manager head coach. And you guys were just like, yeah, you saw his big arm, right? We didn't get you guys yet.
And I'm like, oh, gosh. You're like, I know those guys' shit.
I was just timing Big Cat in a 40. While a grandma walked by.
We think you might like this piece of literature, sir. Like Jehovah's Witnesses for Josh Allen.
The pamphlet we used to call it. The Varsal pamphlet.
Yeah. He's laughing now.
But there should be. at his looking out at the water right now in miami um yeah there should be a scouting of the year award yeah we'll give it we'll give it on that yeah get on that yeah uh all right todd you're the best appreciate you uh everyone tune into his uh show on the ringer and uh best of luck on the draft let's let's uh let's crush this draft you got it man's do it.
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Hank, what's the get-in price tonight? The get-in price tonight in Washington is $59. That's a pretty good deal.
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What time is it? Game time. Make sure it was also brought to you by Chevy.
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Okay. I think I had you in the hot guy crew.
Yeah, the hot boy crew with you, Canales, Sean McVay, and D'Amico Ryans. That's a pretty good crew.
I'll take that all day. Yeah.
Yeah. So do you think, though, that NFL head coaches are getting too hot? Because, like, we lost Matt Rule, who Matt Rule can dress up all he wants.
He's going to look like Matt Rule. Do you think that you guys are maybe getting a little too hot and we're losing a piece of that game? Yeah, I don't worry about that.
You know, I do take a lot of um i love watching your write-ups on all of us so i think that's very entertaining yes yes but i i mean you definitely we know sean definitely takes he thinks about his looks takes a lot of pride in that yeah he had the prp injections to grow the beard out a little bit so yeah so what you're he does a lot of things he's hollywood though yeah that's true he's right there can you blame him yeah so wait you're what you're saying is you're just naturally hot you're not you're not trying to do it at all whereas whereas coach mcveigh is he's trying to do it he's got to get dressed up and have everyone you know he's spending money on his face and everything you're just you're just rolling out of bed good looking well the ar Arthur Smith said otherwise. He said I spent a lot of time on my hair and all that, which I can't say is totally wrong.
But, yeah. We do miss Arthur Smith in the league, too.
Like, as a head coach, having him in that picture, that was a nice touch, too. Yeah.
No, Art's the best. Yeah.
Yeah. So, Coach, are you hosting the draft? Do you have any hosting responsibilities? Yeah.
Are they staying at your house? I have no hosting responsibilities. Oh.
So nothing additional? Are you going to be at the team facility? Are you going to be like at the physical draft itself? Well, yeah, technically since it's here. But I'll be in the same draft room that I've been in the last.
Well, I guess it was our first year in our new portion of our building. So I'll be up there in the draft room on the second floor.
But it kind of Goody's office is right around the corner so you can overlook and see what's going on outside. Oh, all right.
So can you break down, I know this might be boring for some people, but I'm actually fascinated

with it, like your actual draft day schedule.

Like what time does it get cooking?

What time do you guys sit down?

You obviously have done all the work, but like how does it work just sitting there in

the war room and like, you know, the bullets are flying, you're trying to figure everything

out?

Honestly, it's just kind of a waiting game game especially we're picking 23rd this year and there's a lot of unknowns I would say in this draft in particular probably more so in this one than there is in previous years just in terms of there's not I would say a clear consensus in terms of how some of these guys are going to fall. And it's always a little bit of a crapshoot, but it's a lot of waiting around.
But you can feel it starts to get tense the closer you are to making your selection. Yeah.
So what's the snack situation like in your draft war room? You know, we got a lot of scouts that like to eat,

and so I'd say there's some pretty good snacks floating around.

Yeah.

Who are you guys going to pick?

That's a hell of a question.

Who do you think we should pick?

I thought I got you.

I thought I was going to have you.

I feel like the Green Bay beat writers always know

who you're going to pick before just because they know.

Like, you guys have a type.

You're like the Ravens.

Like, the Packers and Ravens,

it feels like they always get the guy that they wanted to get, and he ends up being good. And it's like, goddammit, it happened again.
It's not always the case. But you want to be successful through the draft.
And thankfully, our guys have done a pretty good job. All right.
So, like, when you get closer to your pick, obviously you're not the GM, but you are the head coach. Are you being asked? Are you, like, weighing in? Or are you just like, hey, you guys have been doing all the work.
I'm going to go coach the team. You guys have been doing the scouting.
Like, I defer to you. Or do you throw in, like, some thoughts and everything? Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I think the – I mean, I'm sitting right next toy and and the rest of our our scouting department and um you know sometimes there's there's more conversation than others but um yeah i absolutely weigh in especially as we're getting close and it's usually there's a couple guys within the range that you're kind of targeting and um you kind of weigh in and give your thoughts and then, you know, just wait to see who we pick. Yeah.
Do you guys still use the same draft chart? The one that Jimmy Johnson came up with where he assigned all the numbers, the different values for each pick? Oh yeah. There's, there's a couple of them out there.
That is one of them that, you know, we have that all this stuff up on the screen on your computer screen. And especially when you start talking about trades and you hear the phones ring and, you know, each, I would say there's a lot of scouts in the room and most of the scouts have a team that they're in communication with.
So as those trades get thrown around, you start comparing and see where it falls.

And those draft charts, they're all a little bit different.

We have our own draft chart, as a matter of fact.

But we always use all those to compare in terms of where the value is.

Yeah.

Do you guys ever – has it ever come down to like the last second

and you guys don't have your pick in?

Has there ever been pressure on the clock that way?

Because I remember the Vikings, they got – I think twice, they didn't submit their pick on time and lost their pick. Yeah, that's – I mean, it hasn't happened in my experience here, but, yeah, usually you have – you always have a plan B.
If something doesn't go through the way you want it, you always have something down just so that doesn't happen. Yeah.
Do you text with any of your friends who are in different organizations, coaches, scouts, whatever, and like bust their balls, like in a fantasy draft being like, that was a reach. Like, oh, we had a third round grade on him.
I would do that. Do you not? I would say you usually just compliment when they pick somebody that you like.
And then there's some laughter within the draft room sometimes. Like, I can't believe they just took whoever that may be.
But typically, we kind of keep that in-house. Okay.
Okay. Yeah, because I would definitely not be able to help myself.
And just be like, even if it wasn't true, I'd just be like, dude, I had a third day grade on this guy. I think I'm going to try that approach this year.
Yeah. Just see how they react.
It will get in someone's head. When you draft in fantasy football and someone says, ooh, that's a reach, you're just like, fuck, was that a reach? Even if they're fucking with you, you definitely get in your head and then you start making crazy decisions.

I think I'm going to have to try it.

Yeah.

Well, now if any other coaches are listening to this interview

and they don't get a text from you being like, good pick,

then they're going to be in their own head thinking like,

why didn't I get the good pick text from Matt?

He must think that pick sucks.

We set that up.

One thing I would also do if I was a coach,

I would probably forget to do my draft prep and then read a mock draft like on my way into the office that day and be like oh shit okay now i'm good now i'm good do you ever read the the mock drafts and think yourself like these guys have no fucking idea what we're what we're talking about uh yeah but i i usually try not to look at any like mock drafts or any draft evaluations till the, till the very end of it. Yeah.
Cause sometimes you're, you're like, well, maybe I'm missing something, but, um, you just don't want that to really factor into the, the work that you do watching the players and getting to know them. Yeah.
You know what you need to do too is, uh, we've found in our travels that NFL scouts actually listen to this show more than probably any profession because they're in the car all the time. And I've talked to them about it.
We're like, we've gone to college games where we'll see a bunch of scouts and they'll come up and talk to us. I'm like, why are you listening to us? We're morons.
They're like, well, we live football and we kind of want to shut off our brains and listen to you guys be idiots. And I was like, actually, that's a fair response.
But I would imagine a scout listening to us too much is bad for their brain and scouting. So you should probably throw a test out there to see.
Maybe be like, hey, you guys hear Max get pranked by Jerry O'Connell with Big Dom. And if anyone says they had, just be like, you're out.
Get out of here. You listen too much.
Yeah. Well, you guys are so entertaining, you know? I mean.
I don't know about that. I think it's just good for them to feel smart about themselves.
They listen to us and they're like, okay, yeah, I know what I'm talking about. These guys don't.
Well, that's part of it too. Right.
There's no doubt about it. You basically, I would imagine a scout, like, if they're out on the road 200 days a year, they're toiling away, trying to find the next, you know, diamond in a rough, they turn us on and they're like, hey, at least I'm not dumb like these guys.
Like, it's almost like a confidence. Like, I can still do this.
I can still scout football. I don't think you guys are that dumb.
I think I personally had a first overall grade on Joe Milton last year. They still do.
Yeah, you probably – when you were scouting Joe Milton, were you like, man, that guy can throw a football a fucking mile? Yeah, he can throw a mile. Yeah, I love watching him.
Yeah. I have a real, like, Big J question for you.
I need to hold your feet to the fire on something. A big J? Yeah, big J.
Capital J journalist. Okay.
Why are you afraid of the tush push? Why are you scared of it? It's just a play. You can do it.
You're being kind of a pussy about it. Well, I don't want to get into how I really feel about it.
so like i'm good with whatever they want to decide and do adapt but it has been a pretty damn successful play ironically enough we actually do better when we don't do the tush push so oh wait so but how do you actually feel you don't like it no i don't i i mean i, to be honest with you. What does it feel like when you know the tush push is coming, though? That's got to suck.
Well, yeah, you know, I mean, they're in a favorable situation because it's still like, you know, almost 90% effective. So it's a tough play to stop, that's for sure, and especially with how Philly's done it and Jalen does a great job.
But I really think it all starts up front.

Those guys do a really good job of getting low

and allowing Jalen to use his Herculean leg strength

to push the pile forward.

Yeah.

If you're allowed to do the tush push,

I think you should be allowed to do the thing that Frankie Louvoo did,

which is just jump over the line repeatedly and hit somebody. Well, see,'s what we're trying to avoid right right yeah but that's still fun it's a good like the defense has the ability to do that i just i i thought it was very funny when the ref was like if you do it again we're going to award a touchdown i'd never heard that before nor neither did i yeah the uh side i didn't know that was i didn't know they could do that that's a real rule Sidebar PFT We won't let Coach listen to this But I read a theory that The Packers actually were like Being the sacrificial lamb In trying to ban the Tushbush Because they don't have an owner Because they're weirdos like that And you can't get mad at one owner So all the other other teams wanted the tush push band but the packers are like we'll we'll propose it we'll say it and then everybody will just be mad at a state right yeah oh hey what's up coach he's still there i'm here i'm here uh all right so the real question is uh and he's my coach now ben johnson uh you got beef with him so well he called, he called you out.
I don't have beef with Ben. Yeah, so have you guys ever talked? Listen, he can squat 400 pounds.
I don't know. You probably can't squat 400 pounds.
I'd like to see that. He'll show it to you.
That's fine. He also has a mean – I don't know if you saw his first pitch.
It was nasty. At Wrigley on Saturday.
It was sick. I it oh of course you saw it you did not see it you saw it you probably didn't see it because it was too fast yeah it was too fast it had late breaking action it you would have struck out a hundred times out of a hundred times but you're probably right because i never played baseball i was not a baseball guy okay nice excuse uh when he said your name though were you like what the heck i've talked to him.
Well, it's funny because a lot of people reached out to me and they're like, how well do you know Ben? I was like, I don't. But, you know.
It's good for the rivalry. You need to watch the pitch, though, because it was some nasty stuff.
It was like Greg Maddox. Really? Yeah.
I think the most impressive first pitch that I've seen in a very long time. But, yeah, when he brought your name up, I think everybody was like, oh, the old buddies just jabbing each other like they do.
Like, do you work like .0001% harder because he said that? Anytime I'm just lacking a little motivation, I just think about that. It usually gets me over the hump.

Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like you could do the old

gotta beat the Packers. He just went

more personal level. You know what I mean?

He's like, gotta go after Matt LaFleur.

Make it personal.

Yeah, last time I checked, I thought it was

Packers, Bears. No, it's Matt LaFleur,

Ben Johnson. Packers, Lions.

Squat fest. We're gonna do a squat fest.

I love that. I mean, you haven't beaten the...
That's pretty impressive. He can squat 400 pounds.
Yep. I think it's 405.
You haven't beaten the Bears in 2025, have you? We have not. We haven't played.
Yeah. Actually, we didn't.
Yep. Yep.
Yep. There was a game.
So maybe a shifting of the tides right now. I do want to give you some credit, though, for your coaching job this year because I thought what you did when Malik Willis came in, to the outsider, it looked like you were calling – you were empty in the bag when Malik was out there, the way that you were designing the running plays.
Was that a fun week of work for you when you're like, I am going to need to figure out a tail of this offense and win a football game? It seemed like you were having fun calling those plays. Well, I got to give our staff a ton of credit guys like Adam Stanovich.
I mean, he's really the mastermind behind our run game. And so a lot of times we'll build off our run game.
We'll build our passing game off that. So yeah, he, he definitely, we are, we have a saying around here.
The only thing that limits you is your imagination. And he's a pretty creative guy.
That's like a Disney World saying. It is.
That's kind of lame. I actually bet on you guys, though, when Malik was – because to give you credit, I was like, Matt LaFleur is a very good coach, and I think he's going to have Malik Willis in a great spot.
And spot and I was like you know there are a lot of people like Malik Willis can't play I'm like coaching matters a lot and you guys like you had the game plan for him yeah and he went out there what was so impressive about what he did he'd been here for three weeks before he started his first game and I don't know too many guys that could handle that type of situation. And it's a credit to him and the guys around him being able to go out there and execute the plan.
This year, I feel like you got a little angrier this year. Are you working on your anger? I am.
I am. What happened? Did you feel yourself getting angrier this year? Just in certain situations, you know, like when you call a timeout three times and they don't recognize it.
You know, I think you kind of earned that right to get a little angry, right? Yeah. Did you know that some people were calling you Mad LaFleur? Yeah.
I did not. I was unaware of that.
Yeah. You got mad.
You got mad. You got triggered.

People were saying that.

In that game against the Dolphins, when you looked across the field and you saw Mike McDaniel just all bundled up in his very cozy park, were you like, we got this game. This guy can't coach in the cold.
Yeah, but it's never about us. It's always the players.
Oh, that's a smart cop-out answer. I like that.
I saw a report that you're bringing in new ideas to keep the Packers' offense

of- Oh, that's a smart cop-out answer. I like that.
I saw a report that you're bringing in new ideas to keep the Packers' offense evolving. What new ideas are we talking about? Is it PFT's lateral? Is it my fake punt punt? What are you doing? Well, I saw what Mike Leach said the other day.
Yeah, yeah. Or was there a report that he had said? Yeah.
Before he passed. Yeah.

That one would be good.

Oh, that'd be great.

Yeah.

Would you sign the Rizzler?

You know who the Rizzler is, right?

I don't know who the Rizzler is. You know who the Rizzler is.

You're just playing Koi.

You're doing this.

Yeah, smoke screen season.

Don't make us explain who the Rizzler is because we probably would have the FBI at our door.

I promise you.

I don't know who the Rizzler is.

You just don't want the Vikings to draft him.

You're like, we've got him on our big board.

He's the little kid that goes like this.

Yeah.

Do you know who Baby Gronk is?

Yeah, I do know who Baby Gronk is.

Okay, so you know who the Rizzler is.

I don't know who the Rizzler is.

Big Justice?

I don't know who that is either.

Oh, man.

And now you've reversed it on us because explaining it is just so embarrassing.

Yeah, you don't need to know.

I don't really want to explain who the Rizzler is. What do you guys guys do spend all day on social media or something no literally yes no that's our job we're shitheads who sit on our phones all day do you have a burner do you do you look at social media you know i try not to i'm not going to say i never do because but i do not I have a burner, but I try not to because I learned this lesson one time back when I was the coordinator for Tennessee.
We had a game versus Philly. We won in overtime.
And I was feeling good about myself. I had like a 20-minute ride into work, and they were saying great things on the radio.
And then the the next week we went out and got smoked. And so I just thought it was karma, bad juju.
I don't want any part of it, both good or bad. So I try to stay off of it as much as possible, which I think is impossible in today's world.
But for the most part, I try to stay away from it. We probably pretty smart.
We might've just relapsapsed you because you're going to walk away from this being like, who the hell is the Rizzler? I've got to find out. I can't.
Wallers, you know who the Rizzler is? Okay, he knows. Yeah, of course he does.
He's a regular person. He's QB1 in this draft.
You throw him over the line of scrimmage and easy touchdown every single time. It makes a tush-push look like the least effective play ever.
I wonder if my kids know who the Rizzler definitely how old are your kids my kids are 13 and 11 yeah yeah they probably have the risler posters they're actually gonna make fun of me that i don't know who the risler is they actually probably will go they'll probably say yeah dad we knew about the risler that was six months ago so he's they're gonna not only make fun of you but then make fun of us adjacently being like these guys are fucking losers too so that's gonna suck for us you'll have to update me if that happens i got i got kind of probably a dumb question might be a good question though depending how you answer it have you sean and kyle ever gotten like on the group chat together and said like what if we just what if we just all teamed up again on the same team one day like maybe 20 years from now you know how like the eagles break up they do their own side projects they do a reunion tour has that ever been discussed yeah i think it'd be great we usually get together in other settings you know would you are you closing the door on ever being on the same coaching staff again? Absolutely not. Oh, I like that.
Who would be the head coach? Ooh, we got some pretty strong personalities between Sean and Kyle, so I don't know. Yeah.
I don't know if they could coexist, you know, being same division all these years. Yeah, that's true.
I hope that's possible. That's true.
When your former quarterback Aaron Rodgers said that he's looking for a culture like the Packers, were you like, did you have a little smile on your face? You're like, I told you so. Grass is always greener.
No, I didn't know he said that. Oh, you're such a liar.
I don't. You're such a liar.
You're such a liar. That that does make me grin that makes me happy yeah yeah he went to the jets for two years and he's like god damn it i didn't realize what life was like yeah i've heard some of those uh crazy stories from the jets you know my brother was the coordinator there so yeah yeah yeah so were they true a lot of them, memes.
Our producers. Memes.
Every time an article would come out about the Jets, he'd be like, this is completely made up. He'd just attack all the journalists.
The Jets are fine. Diana Rossini, Florio.
He'd go after all of them. Yeah.
Is there one report? Unfortunately, just between Sala and my brother, there's, there's, uh, some interesting stories.

Yeah.

Yeah. Is there one reporter that if they call you like, oh shit, this person's called, they must have something.
Not really. I, I, I feel like most people don't even reach out to me.
So I kind of, I don't, I don't mess with that too much. Yeah.
Uh, all right. So when you guys um and then you bring them in for mini camp is there like a do you have a feeling right away like all right we did this is good or like how quickly are you like i think this is someone that was going to be here for a long time versus uh we got some work to do i think every situation is a little bit different because i know there's been some guys that we've gotten that you think this guy's going to be a player and he fizzles out.
So, but you know, everybody learns at a little different rate and I hate to be just a blah answer, but I feel like that's really how it is. You got to get them in and you know, a lot of these guys just haven't been exposed to what they're going to be asked to do at this level or the the type of system that we may have so i think you got to give these guys you know at least a year to figure it out yeah all right off that is it what would you say is more demanding for a guy getting drafted?

Is it the physical side or the mental side of the NFL? I'd say both. But which one is more, if you had to say? I mean, I would probably say the mental side, because you're probably not drafting them if they physically can't do what you want them to do anyway.
So I think just although the landscape of college has changed in terms of the length of these seasons now with, I mean, some of these guys are playing 14 games, 15 games. So it's just the season has gotten longer in college football, and that's usually a big adjustment for guys coming to this level is you know you can the rookie wall um that's a real thing yeah you can see just the energy that these guys have um so yeah but i think definitely the mental when it comes to a new draft pick how often are you in touch with them on like a one-on-one basis because as a coach you have you have a lot of jobs you get a lot of stuff that you have to do how much time do you carve out to like meet with them one-on-one and give them specific instructions for each again it depends on the situation um you know i would try to spend a little bit of time with each guy as they're onboarding and getting a chance to know him throughout the course of the offseason.
But you're right. I mean, we've got a big roster size.
We've got 90 guys in the offseason. So it's impossible to spend as much time as you'd like with each guy.
Yeah. One thing I love about draft night is the first time that a coach makes the call to the guy that he's about to draft.
We always get to see those videos after the of that you know initial conversation that you're having um do they have your number stored already and they know when you're calling them like hey this is the green bay packers no i don't believe so i think it just shows up that the area code shows up and it shows up as green bay and but no they definitely don't have our numbers How many numbers do you have going into the draft?

Well, I mean, we've got a computer system.

You just read the number and dial in the digits.

It's just all the players ready to go.

He kind of talked down to you there.

Yeah, but no, I'm saying you have to be able to call.

I don't have all these guys' numbers on my cell phone.

Don't let them talk to you like that.

You have to look at a screen, but where do you get the –

I'm wondering how many numbers you have.

They make the call.

Oh, so you got a guy for that. It you it's beneath you to dial the phone no yeah maybe this is gotcha journalism all right well coach i got one last question for you roback question r-h-o-b-a-c-k.com promo code take 20 off your first purchase q-zips polos hoodies joggers shorts roback., shorts, roback.com, promo code TAKE.
So the draft is three days.

At what point in the three days are you like,

enough already?

Like I'm done sitting in this room.

Because I feel like, or maybe you're used to it.

Just sitting in the room and eating food,

you know, take out every single day for three days in a row.

Maybe that's something you're used to.

But that's something we're used to. Are you built for it?

Are you like, you know, halfway through Friday, you're like, all right, I'm're used to are you built for it are you like you know

halfway through friday you're like all right i'm i'm ready to go i want my life back yeah i mean there's a lot of downtime you're talking about hours for a quick selection and then you're just waiting and the the most brutal part of the draft process is watching all these players that you you kind of fall in love with get picked by other teams. Yeah.
I mean, it's kind of painful to sit there and watch all these guys fly off the board. And then inevitably it happens almost every year where you're in a position where you got your target set on a guy and right before you picked, he gets picked.
So you got to pivot and go to another guy. Yeah, you got to get over it real fast.
We'll send you some Rizzler videos for the downtime. Please do.
I do actually have a lot of downtime where I can figure out who the Rizzler is. Are you going to listen to any music on the way into work to get pumped up? No, I'm going to listen to part of my take.
Oh, okay. That'll make you dumber.
Yeah, that'll make you really dumb. I'm going to send you a Rizzler.
It'll actually make me feel good going into the draft process, right? That's true. That's what you guys told me.
Yeah. I'm going to get a Rizzler compilation and send it to you.
And then that way when your GM is looking over and being like, hey, coach, what do you think about this pick? And you just have the rizzler up it's gonna be like what the hell's going on yeah you're gonna think much less of us after you watch two hours about the rizzler the other thing i'm excited about i gotta see this this first pitch yeah yeah i said yeah really talk this up great late cutting action look like look like greg maddox have you thrown a first pitch? I have never done that. What? The Brewers never had you out? We were just talking about this the other day.
Is it because you're scared? You're scared to do it? Well, now I'm going to have to do it, right? Yeah. You're scared to do it.
It's fine. Don't be scared.
I've thrown three first pitches. Do you think I'd get booed if I came to a Cubs game and threw out the first pitch? Yeah, probably.
It would be fun, though. But you should – that would actually be very fun.
Actually, we should see if you come to a Cubs game, throw out the first pitch, have Ben Johnson in the box. He'll take you 400 feet.
Maybe he can catch. Yeah, I want to see your first pitch now.
We got to get this.

Don't be scared.

I know you're scared.

That's a lot of pressure.

I can tell you're scared.

Don't be scared.

It's not that hard.

It's a lot of pressure.

And you have to go from the rubber.

I'm going to say that right now.

If you don't go from the rubber, I will judge you.

Yeah, of course.

There's a lot of guys who don't.

There's a lot of guys who step up.

No, I'm throwing from the mound.

Okay.

All right. Good.
I got one last, last thing for you. Are you guys playing in Ireland this year? That's a great question.
I can't wait to find out. Oh, you don't know? Yeah.
Yeah, you are. I promise you.
I promise you. I do not know.
I promise you. I feel like they should tell you about the international games a little bit sooner, right? Well, we knew last year we had a pretty good indication that we were playing philly in brazil um but on this one we're kind of in the dark right now and just kind of waiting i know it's a possibility because i've read packers stealers in dublin ireland oh wow that would be fun i think i'm sure they're waiting on aaron rogers whether or not that's true you can't get rid of this guy yeah he's holding up your life still somehow if he goes to pittsburgh then i'm sure we'll probably be there that's so perfect that it just all leads back to aaron's decisions you just another offseason waiting for aaron's decision he misses that culture though man congrats on the culture yeah hey we take pride in that all right thanks so much coach take care.
All right. Take care.
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Okay, FAQ's time, Hank.

Let's wrap it up.

Wrap it up.

He's lost.

He's lost. It's okay.
He'll get there. Come'll get there.
Come on, sweetie. You got this.
You're good. Well, I'm sorry.
There's no way you would have been able to plan for the FAQs coming up. I have them right here.
Come on, sweetie. Hey there, Big Cat PFT and the guy who literally can't get the lottery ball.
If you had to follow Wendy's rule of five dinner,

what four recurring guests would you invite, dead or alive?

Rest in peace, Tommy Lasorda.

Good question.

Are we doing this as a team or is it your personal?

I think we got to do it as a team.

Jeannie Bouchard.

I think we got to do it as a team.

All right, Bonk.

Put it on the Bonk list.

Paige Sporanek. Bonk list list all right fauci fauci john cena this is tough and deck this is tough yeah this is because you don't want to do you want to do guests that would normally not mix.

So you wouldn't want to have, I love Russillo and SVP,

but if you brought both them, it's like, okay,

they're just going to talk about their show and their history.

I want to have all other four people be introduced

for the first time with each other.

It might be Matt Damon.

Yeah, he'd be fun.

It might be recency bias

but i think that bill raftery would be a great great call bill raftery and walk a flock of flame those are my first two have we had walk a flock of flame on the show we didn't no i thought that we did yes he did yes yeah we did yeah you talked about the deaf sign language yeah yeah oh yeah Flags

JLC

JLC

JLC Bill Raftery is a really good one Talked about the deaf sign language. Yeah, yeah.
Oh, yeah.

Flags.

JLC.

JLC.

JLC Bill Raftery is a really good one, too.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Dead or Alive, you said?

Tiffany Gomez.

Bill Walton.

Bill Walton would be great. Bill Walton would be awesome.

Bill Walton. And then John Cena.
You could just leave a chair open. It's true.
Yeah. That's a good question, though.
It's so hard. What would be the best? We should make a graphic where it's like pick.
Maybe Mount Rushmore. No.
Oh. We've done that, and it hurt.
It hurt a lot of people's feelings. No, no, no.
It was recurring guests. You were about to pick Jules this time, right? Yeah.
Before we stopped it? It's for a dinner party. Right, but I would like to see what the AWLs.
I got the last one. What? Joey Chestnut.
Oh. A little dinner in the show.
You get to pay a lot. Yeah.
We should do the meme where it's like you get to pick someone at your lunch table, and it's like categories so you could put like s you got to pick one of svp rusillo herb street or whatever you know and it's basketball players and it's so let's do that the vending machine should have svp next to it yeah yeah big cat just yeah okay who in the crew would you trust most to babysit your kids for a weekend? Oh, boy. Oh, boy.
Uncle PFT is getting ready to buy some beers. Oh, boy.
I weirdly might say Max one yeah i maybe i think you would be two pft you're one or two pft it's either you or max that's a guarantee i think i would be respectful no i think you'd be very good it's not you you sometimes forget things so that that might it was more that i don't it's not a knock on you in terms of i'll be't there a girl yeah right yeah like there's a girl one right here uh so be your max one or two uh max would be maybe remember things more i think you'd be more fun then hank three just because i think he would take it very serious. I don't know, though.
Hank would have to golf.

There might be a lot of texts.

Like, where's the bottle?

Memes, my kids would just watch TV all weekend.

They wouldn't do shit.

Is that fair, memes?

No, we'd do stuff.

Like what?

I don't know, go to the park.

Okay.

I think the kids would love having memes come out.

He'd come in with like six televisions

yeah

so many DVDs

Shane by far last

Pug you'd be in there

so I'm gonna go

final answer

PFT1 max 2

then we're gonna go like

draft like McShay did

PFT max 1

1 and 2

so I'll say PFT1

max 2

those are my blue chippers

then there's a big drop off

Hank

I'll see PFT one, max two. Those are my blue chippers.
Then there's a big drop off. Hank.
Then there's a really big drop off. Pug.
Memes. Then there's enormous drop off.
Shit. Jack's not even in the equation.
Jack and I are beefing right now. Okay.
I walked out and it smelled like shit in the kitchen. And I was like, why does it smell like fish again? And Donnie was like, it smells like beef.
And Jack was playing ping pong. He plays ping pong.
He's actually a professional ping pong player. That's how he does every day.
Is he? He plays all the time. He hasn't even come sniffed feeding me.
And Jack just out of nowhere just goes I don't think it smells that bad and I just turned to him and said Jack listen your only

jobs here are to play ping pong

and agree with everything I say

and he's like okay and then he went back to

playing ping pong. Any smell can smell

disgusting if you're not ready for it. Yeah it was a new

smell that I came out. You had been baked in

it Jack. Unexpected smells.
It could be

a gourmet steak and

if you're not if you don't see it coming

you're like what died in here yeah jack do you think you could babysit my kids uh if you ask me to yes okay but what about you going out with the cool kid club here i would take a day off okay one day that's this the question was a weekend as long as you need all right so jack jack's above shame. Hank, were you upset with that ranking? Yeah.
Why? You thought you should be ahead of Max and PFT? I don't know what Max has that is more responsible than me. Girlfriend.
I don't know. Dog.
Get a dog. What do you have? Spiders.
Not anymore. So spiders die the dog is still alive the dog is still alive i think if you had a dog you'd be up there it's just like having a dog i think puts you immediately you're halfway there you are a dog okay yeah you are a dog whoa whoa uh did any of you guys go into an interview with little to no expectations and come out of it really liking or having a newfound respect for the guest? The Tony Hale interview you did a few years ago back did that very thing for me.
Tony Hale. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Buster Blue. Yeah.
I liked him. I would say...
JLC. Yeah, JLC is the number one.
JLC is the easy number one. JLC is the number one.
We didn't even want to take the interview, and they were like, come on, he's good. And we're like, all right, fine.
And then it became our best friend. We're like, wait, that's the guy that's married to Rebecca Romaine? Yeah.
Yeah, maybe we can meet her. Maybe he'll give us some pictures.
Yeah. Has there been any other? Because we always say JLC.
I really like Julius Randle. Yes.
Didn't I like to expect from that. Paolo.
I liked Paolo a lot.

Paolo was good.

I mean, old school Joe Buck.

I think we always thought we would get along with Joe Buck,

but it was, you know, who knows?

Because we didn't know if he was going to be, like, the best,

and he was the best.

I thought that Chris Long was a piece of shit until he was on the show.

I was like, yeah, I kind of respect him.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm trying to think if there's any others. Hank, can you think of any others? Gary Busey.
Gary Busey was very fun. Tom Frinelli, I thought he was a piece of shit.
Martin Shkreli. Still might be.
Oh, because he stole all the takes from Hank. Yeah, he's stealing everything from Hank.
Prisco's a prickly one that I think... Exactly what I expected but i think we're the only ones who like him yeah like i don't think anyone likes listening to him yeah we just like listening to him which guess what it's our show yes you come up with your own show then you then you and you can ban pete prisco i mean another one would be max homa we just knew max is like a like yeah kind of quirky online guy but we didn't know him personally the first time that we had him on like he had he had i think talked to us via dms like he played uh warzone with hank he and i had dm'd a few times but we didn't know we didn't know each other he came on the show and we're like yeah love this guy brooks yeah brooks is the first interview we did with brooks we we were like i i can't remember i got connected with one of his guys.
He was like, hey, you ever want Brooks on? We're like, I guess we'll go do it because they were playing at the, was it the US Open? No, it was the PGA. US Open.
It was US Open. And we're like, yeah, we'll go interview him.
And then we're like, shit, we love this guy. And then he ended up winning more and coming on all the time.
So that was definitely one. Yep.
I thought it would be a one and done, and it's become a someday we should relationship. We should get everyone like the day that we end this podcast, hopefully many years from now.
But how many of these guys think we get in one room? Pretty cool. Would be.
Just have them all together. All right.
Is that it? Yeah. Good job.
Thanks. Great job, Hank.
You think you should have been two or one? No, no i i respect your your judgment do you think you could take care of kids for an entire weekend no right but max like better than i just i i max is like a he's like he's basically santa 24 7 he is he's he's a jolly big guy with a beard. Yeah.
Like, kids like that. I mean, I've said it on this show.
My kids are obsessed with when his... I show them every time Max's butt comes out, which is a lot, his butt crack, and they always are like...
He's an asshole. My daughter's like, can I see Max's butt? And they're like, Max is the funny guy.
He's got a butt that comes out. Yeah, it's fair.
Work to be done. Work to be done.
You're not going to do anything. Tip, find your inner parent on the golf course.
Work to be done. You got a few girls that call you daddy, though.
Nope. You're not a father, but kind of the fastest nope ever alright good show boys numbers 3 oh no 17 77 37 you weren't on pug you're on 99 pug 44 Nope 94 Not today is the day You want to go one more memes memes? Yeah, let's go one more.
Numbers three.

I said it.

I think I said it.

I think I said it.

61.

77.

17.

99, but.

If we both get it.

24.

We both can't get it.

I have 17.

What were you saying?

Today's the day?

Today's the day.

100. What were you saying? Today's the day? Today's the day.
100! 100! You couldn't be further away, Deems. I had a dream that one of you guys took three and got it, and all the computers in front of me were broken.
How did they break? From me. Oh, okay.
The podcast was safe. You left that part out of the dream.

The podcast was safe.

Love you guys. Thank you.
We'll be right back. Thank you.
Thank you.