NFL Draft With Todd McShay, Packers HC Matt LaFleur, Playoff Recaps In NHL/NBA + Listener Submitted FAQ's

Speaker 1 Hey, pardon my take, listeners. You can find every episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
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Speaker 1 We drove 1700 miles of old Highway 61, the whole country top to bottom, just to prove one thing. Comfort food can make anywhere home.

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Speaker 1 Bison meatloaf, chicken enchiladas, turkey lasagna, the kind of meals that taste like Saturday night, even on a Tuesday. Crave New World.
Find it in Kroger Isles this October.

Speaker 1 The road trip might be over, but dinner's just getting good. On today's part of my take, we have a twofer for the people.
We have our good friend Todd McShay on the show to break down the NFL draft.

Speaker 1 He's giving us a little something different than Daniel Jeremiah, telling us what teams are thinking, how he thinks the draft may fall,

Speaker 1 what are the Giants thinking, who's going to trade up. So great interview with him.
And then we also have Packers head coach Matt LaFleur.

Speaker 1 We talk to him about draft strategy, draft war room, and maybe 10 straight minutes of us trying to explain the Rizzler to him, which there's no other podcast that's going to do that with one of the 32 head coaches in the NFL.

Speaker 1 We're going to talk NBA playoffs, NHL playoffs. We are starting on Zoom.
Going to talk the Tuesday night games. Then we're going to talk the Monday night games back in studio together.

Speaker 1 We have hot seat cool throne. We have listener-submitted FAQs, and it's all brought to you by our friends at DraftCamp.

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Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 let's go. I love guys who like football.
And guys who like football, they like me back, and I like them back.

Speaker 1 And even guys that don't like football, I mean,

Speaker 1 they try to avoid me because I'm always trying to get them to like football.

Speaker 1 Football.

Speaker 1 Welcome to part of my take presented by DraftKings. Basketball playoffs are here.
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The crown is yours. Today is Wednesday, April 23rd.

Speaker 1 And PFD, we had a not-so-great night of playoff

Speaker 1 hoops and hockey. Well, we had an overtime game in hockey.
We did have a great Monday night, which we'll get to back in studio. But we also have a sick boy in the corner.

Speaker 4 Max is sick. If you're watching on YouTube, this is the coziest part of my take ever.
If you're just looking at Max, you do look like you're snuggled up, which is adorable.

Speaker 4 I have an immediate take about the NBA. And I think Hank might actually agree with me on this one.

Speaker 1 Oh, I like this.

Speaker 4 Can we just stop with the Eastern Conference playoffs?

Speaker 4 Can we just not do them? Because what's happening is

Speaker 4 every team is just kind of getting fattened up to get eaten by the Celtics in a delicious snack. Like, that's what's going to happen.

Speaker 1 I'm actually being.

Speaker 1 This is a reversal. I know, no.

Speaker 4 Listen, I say that we should respect the Thunder, and I would like for Hank to show a little humility, but that's just because I can't stand when he's cocky and right about something at the same time.

Speaker 4 And he should respect the Cavs, or at least pretend to respect them. But the East is just, get it out of my face.

Speaker 4 The East, there's no point in watching these games in the East because all these people are.

Speaker 1 Look at the Cavs, dude. The Cavs, the Cavs have a solid team.

Speaker 4 The Magic could be good one day. The Cavs could be a contender, but I don't think that they're a contender right now.

Speaker 4 I think that they're a very good team that is going to struggle against superior talent and coaching on the Celtics. But the East in general, I'm just,

Speaker 4 I don't want to watch any more Eastern Conference playoff games. I don't.

Speaker 1 Okay, so, well, I mean, the

Speaker 1 Pistons, dude. Yeah, the Pistons Knicks

Speaker 1 was a great game on Monday night, which, again, so the schedule here is because we were taping a little out of order. We're going to get to the Pistons Knicks.

Speaker 1 We're going to get to the Clippers Nuggets, Ovie, all that stuff back in studio after we finish the Zoom portion.

Speaker 1 I think the Pacers are good.

Speaker 1 I do.

Speaker 1 Obviously, I don't know. They're probably not going to beat the Celtics.
They probably won't beat the Cavs.

Speaker 1 I think the Pacers are good.

Speaker 1 I think they have a ton of shooting. They play a fast pace.
Like, Nemhart tonight was not only that big three, which was so sick when he just, he basically put, he was basically a snake charmer.

Speaker 1 He put Giannis into a trance and then slowly backed up and hit that three in his face, but he also put Dame in hell. And I know Dame was coming back from being off for a long time.

Speaker 1 Shout out Doc Rivers for playing him 37 minutes.

Speaker 1 So funny, but I like

Speaker 1 the paces are fun.

Speaker 1 You make a good point about what Doc Rivers did tonight.

Speaker 4 It's ironic for his name to be Doc Doc and for him to be like, hey, this guy has blood clots. He hasn't been allowed to exercise, not just play basketball.
He has not been allowed to exercise.

Speaker 4 And you know what? He's back for the first night.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we'll give him a full run.

Speaker 4 Yeah. We'll play his way back into shape.

Speaker 1 Well, so the good news for Doc Rivers is he can't blow a 3-1 lead.

Speaker 1 So that's off the table now.

Speaker 4 No, but Big Cat, you're being the fake news media right now. We should be talking about how good of a job he did building those 3-1 leads.
That's true.

Speaker 4 This is a major, major fail on his part to not even get there.

Speaker 1 I also am wondering when the Bucs are going to get some help for Bobby Portis because he was awesome tonight.

Speaker 1 But yeah, this was, all right, so I do want to talk about the Pacers, but this was about the worst day you could have as a Bucs fan because Dame comes back.

Speaker 1 You're like, all right, maybe this will be different.

Speaker 1 You don't win. You cut it close because the Pacers kind of played with their food, but it didn't.
I mean, the Pacers were winning the entire game.

Speaker 1 And then you also get the report from Chris Haynes on Dan Patrick's show, who is a dame insider. So I think he's like the preeminent dame insider.

Speaker 1 He said that he would not be shocked if Giannis doesn't finish his career. in Milwaukee and that this is a very pivotal playoff for them.

Speaker 1 And if they don't make a finals run or win the finals, there could be a big like wholesale change in Milwaukee, which is, I know that there's been a lot of speculation speculation about Giannis.

Speaker 1 It's more like the fan, like other teams being like, can't wait for Giannis to leave. Can't wait for Giannis to leave.

Speaker 1 This feels like one of the first times that an insider is like, hey, I'm hearing that maybe Giannis is going to leave. So

Speaker 1 it's a bad scene for the Bucs today.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it is. And it's funny that there is a Dame insider because that sounds like a job title Nikki Smokes would give himself in the 1920s.

Speaker 4 But I would also agree that it doesn't feel like it's been working, even when Dame has been out there.

Speaker 4 It's kind of a bummer because I don't think this might be one of those things where we never really get to see this version of this team play to their true

Speaker 4 top level that they can get to because of all the injuries and bad luck. And when Dame got there, they didn't really gel so much right off the bat.

Speaker 4 So we might not ever know if it was destined to succeed or not because shit happened.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I think last year's team, you could be like, the what if with Giannis getting injured? I think this year's team is just not that good. And they have flaws.

Speaker 1 And I mean, like even the announcer being like, so pumped for Kyle Kuzma to score, which he did. He scored 12 points tonight, which was more than the zero he scored on Sunday.

Speaker 1 I just think on the other side of it, like, I think the Pacers are fun. I don't, I get where your point is.
Like, it does feel like it's going to be Celtics, Cavs, and most likely Celtics.

Speaker 1 The Pacers are very, very fun, though. They push the pace.
They got three-point shooters everywhere.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't know what the Bucs are doing defensively, just keeping Naismith open, who I think he was, I think he, I don't know if he missed a three. He might have missed one three, but yeah,

Speaker 1 I like watching the Pacers play basketball. So

Speaker 1 I don't want to fast-forward that portion. But yeah,

Speaker 1 I could be down with with some of the Eastern Conference just not being like the Cavs are going to sweep. The Celtics are going to sweep.
I think the Pacers could even probably win at five.

Speaker 1 But yeah, I get what you're saying.

Speaker 4 Yeah, my point isn't that the Pacers are a shitty shitty team. I just think that they're nowhere near ready to beat the Celtics on that level.

Speaker 4 They are fun, and if you're a Pacers fan, you should enjoy the hell out of it.

Speaker 4 Like, this is why you watch sports, is to watch a team that's young, that's putting it together, that you're getting excited about, that's fun. So, yeah, enjoy it.

Speaker 4 I'm just kind of sick of the East, man. I am.

Speaker 1 The other thing, though,

Speaker 1 the other one I'd push back on is I do like watching this series just because these teams actually hate each other. They actually have beef.
They have history.

Speaker 1 Remember the Giannis Ball fiasco when he like,

Speaker 1 what was it? He like took the ball off the court. Then we had Pat Bev last year.

Speaker 1 They talk shit non-stop. Like TJ McConnell was talking shit to Bobby Portis.

Speaker 1 How Burton's talking shit to Dame nonstop. How Burton gets voted most overrated player, which basically is the whole league being like, we hate your guts.

Speaker 1 And I actually like, I liked that Rick Carlisle was like, it's a bullshit award having his back. But I like watching

Speaker 1 these two teams, there's genuine bad blood.

Speaker 1 It's not manufactured. They really do dislike each other very much.

Speaker 4 Yeah, at least it does make it a little bit interesting. And I watched, and I enjoyed the game.

Speaker 4 I was hoping that there would be a couple lead changes just to make it a little bit spicy in the fourth. But

Speaker 4 in terms of the other series, I would probably say it's the most...

Speaker 4 The Knicks Pistons at times is fun.

Speaker 4 But just the fact that the Pacers are kind of frenetic, and I know that we talked about their jerseys,

Speaker 4 the alternate jerseys that they're wearing. It's even doubly worse that it's like a throwback look to the era where they actually had good throwback uniforms.

Speaker 1 Right. But that's not one of them.
Right.

Speaker 1 It makes no sense. It makes no sense.
Hank, what's going through your head right now? Do you think that PFT is using a different tactic on you?

Speaker 1 No, I think he's being honest.

Speaker 5 I think he's seen the light. I think the Cavs, I think he's being a little disrespectful to the Cavs.
They're the one seed.

Speaker 5 But I see where he's coming from.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I am actually being honest. I'm not playing any games with Hank.

Speaker 4 It works out that I might be fucking with him a little bit, but that's not intentional.

Speaker 4 I'm serious.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Max, Max is so fool.
Max, what? So Max is asleep.

Speaker 5 Max is like the POV of like a lot of listeners. There's a lot of AWLs who are who are probably like their phone is just our POV of Max asleep.

Speaker 1 Max,

Speaker 1 you're not in the rest of the episode because you didn't come to work today.

Speaker 1 Some people are calling it soft.

Speaker 1 We have never missed the show.

Speaker 1 What's going on right now? Are you falling asleep?

Speaker 1 No, I'm good.

Speaker 1 That was an internal roll of the eyes from

Speaker 1 whatever is going on about this Eastern Conference bullshit.

Speaker 1 How many times?

Speaker 1 I didn't go in. I had the stomach bug.
I was awake all night last night, coming out of both ends. There's nothing, there's no worse feeling in the world than having a stomach bug.

Speaker 1 A lot of people are calling you

Speaker 4 Lamar Maxon. Do you have any comment on that?

Speaker 1 No, yeah.

Speaker 1 I didn't

Speaker 1 shit my pants.

Speaker 1 I may have gotten a little bit of puke in my hair at one point because

Speaker 1 there was an emergency situation and my hair was down and I didn't have time to put it up.

Speaker 1 It's been a bad day. It's been a rough day.
I've been in this exact position for the entirety of the day. I haven't eaten it all, which is nice.

Speaker 1 I'm probably going to be skinny as fuck at the end of this. Yeah, you are.
That was the first thing I texted you when you told me.

Speaker 1 I was like, you're going to get, I'm jealous of you because there's nothing better than losing like a quick eight to ten pounds just from liquid and then being like, man, I feel good.

Speaker 1 And then you just have one big meal and you're fat again. That happens every time.

Speaker 5 Me, LeBron might have just got murdered, guys.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I think he's dead. I don't know if he's ever going to recover from this.

Speaker 1 Oh, no.

Speaker 5 Let's see how bad it was.

Speaker 1 Oh, no. Let's see.
Is LeBron okay? His head. He's down.
Oh, no. What happened?

Speaker 1 Did he actually get hit?

Speaker 4 I think a pinky might have hit his eye.

Speaker 1 Oh, he did actually get hit in the eye.

Speaker 1 He'll probably be down for another five minutes. Oh, Julius Randle cut.
That was, I don't know if that was dirty, but it did look a little extra. Oh, he's up.
He's okay.

Speaker 1 Verbal meme:

Speaker 1 the handshakes: Max and Joel and Bede not showing up in the playoffs.

Speaker 4 That's a good one.

Speaker 1 I like it. Max, why

Speaker 1 is it?

Speaker 4 Why did you roll your eyes internally

Speaker 1 what does an internal eye roll even mean

Speaker 1 like i closed my eyes and was rolling them inside of my eye

Speaker 4 inside of your head wait what do you disagree with

Speaker 1 do you just do that

Speaker 1 i don't even remember what we were talking about okay max what happened with the portal today well villain of uh whatever

Speaker 1 okay that was your that was your portal update um all right the the grizzlies

Speaker 1 the one series that we can all agree just needs to be over is the Grizzlies Thunder.

Speaker 1 This is men versus boys.

Speaker 1 The Thunders' defense is so fucking good. They had Chen Holmgren out there blocking shots when they're up 20 with like 40 seconds left just because he could.
It's not even... They could play this.

Speaker 1 They could play 100 games. And I honestly...

Speaker 1 I would say if you told me they were going to play 100 games

Speaker 1 and the line was set at the Thunder winning turn injuries off the thunder winning

Speaker 1 92 and a half over 92 and over under is 92 and a half i would take the over way over yeah that's how that's how much that's how lopsided it is i might take it over if it was 99 and a half yeah you would say 100 times out of 100 yeah well now you're leaving yourself open if for some reason the grizzlies win one game you're wrong no

Speaker 5 not against not against this thunder team not against not against this thunder team

Speaker 4 you know what i think it's 98 and

Speaker 4 and I'm going to take the over.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's just

Speaker 1 not a real series.

Speaker 1 They need to just move on with it. By the way, did you see, because we are big ratings, guys, did you see the NBA had its highest ratings in 25 years

Speaker 1 for opening weekend to playoffs? What was the biggest game?

Speaker 1 I didn't see what the biggest game was.

Speaker 1 Was it Celtics Magic?

Speaker 5 I don't know. I'm always interested in that part of it.

Speaker 1 That was the biggest thing.

Speaker 1 I was like, it was Celtics Magic.

Speaker 1 I just saw that it was up. I didn't realize.
Okay. So are you confirming it was Celtics Magic?

Speaker 5 I think I saw that earlier, but the ratings in general, that's great.

Speaker 1 It's great for the league. Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. And should we,

Speaker 1 like, I don't really know. I feel like the Thunder, we, listen, I like watching this Thunder team.
Alex Crusoe, by the way, our guy. Just a menace.
He was everywhere tonight.

Speaker 1 He just was in every single play,

Speaker 1 just rebounding, just ever, just a pest. The Thunder are like,

Speaker 1 we should just tell everyone right now, we're not going to talk about the Thunder or Grizzlies

Speaker 1 until the next round. Like, let's just close this series out.
Let's just say it's over, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I would agree with that.

Speaker 5 Let's just fast forward to the finals.

Speaker 5 It's Celtics Thunder. Like, there's no other, there's no other way.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I just wanted to get it clear because I didn't want Thunder fans to be like, why aren't you talking about this?

Speaker 1 We're already putting you in the next round. That's how good you guys are.
You're in the next round. We will discuss when you get to your next round.

Speaker 4 Big Cat, did you hear that the Thunder put you on the Jumbotron tonight?

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 4 Saying, wear the shirt.

Speaker 1 Oh, really? Do you have the clip? I don't have a clip of it.

Speaker 4 Somebody just tweeted at me and said Big Cat was just on the Jumbotron before the game telling fans to put the shirt on.

Speaker 1 And our guy, the shirt guy,

Speaker 4 he was sticking out.

Speaker 4 He was like neon colored tonight, not wearing the shirt.

Speaker 1 Hartenstein threw the shirt on him and was like, put it on, and he didn't put it on.

Speaker 1 Crazy. I need that clip.

Speaker 1 If anyone from the Thunder is listening, I need the Jumbo Chunk clip. That's awesome.

Speaker 1 I'm fully supportive of the Thunder.

Speaker 1 I've said it before. I mean, Alex Crusoe and Lou Door are like probably two of my top 10 favorite players in the NBA.

Speaker 4 I do want to hear

Speaker 4 the Thunder fans' explanation for why. I want to hear his reasoning behind it because he might have a good reason.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 We still might get him on. I don't know.
We've got to figure that out.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 The Lakers are going to win this game, right? There's three minutes left. Oh, they just showed A-Rod.

Speaker 1 Let's talk hockey and then we'll see what happens at the end of this game. Leave's Team of Destiny.

Speaker 4 It feels like they might be.

Speaker 1 It's a sick overtime goal.

Speaker 4 It feels like this might be the year for our friends up in Toronto.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That was a sick overtime goal.

Speaker 1 The Devils should just be out. The Devils are the Grizzlies.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Same thing. Just go to the next round, Hurricanes.
And I'm actually shot. I mean, the Wild right now are kicking the shit out of the Knights.
That is where hockey is

Speaker 1 better than the NBA in terms of playoffs.

Speaker 1 The Knights are

Speaker 1 a significantly better team than the Wild, and the Wild are shit pumping them right now.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I mean, 8 o'clock Central Star Times is insane.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 6 It even got moved back, too.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That's what, remember that year? Was it? I think it was last year that I bet the Oilers.
Oh, no, it was two years ago. I bet the Oilers.
We were still living in New York.

Speaker 1 And I was like, it almost killed me because I was like, I can't. I don't know how I can watch these games.
It's on way too late. So, yeah.

Speaker 4 Big cat, I know we're going to talk about the caps in a second. Did you see the teeth?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 4 So Alex Alexiev, he got hit in the face by a stick. It was inadvertent.
They called it a four-minute penalty at the time, and they took it off because it was was on a follow-through.

Speaker 4 But he got hit in the mouth by a stick. He lost two of his front teeth on the ice, and they found the teeth.

Speaker 4 And of course, because the ice crew found the teeth, they took a picture of it and they put up online.

Speaker 4 These are some gnarly-ass teeth.

Speaker 4 They look like shark teeth. I tweeted it out a second ago.

Speaker 4 But apparently, he needs like full facial reconstruction, dental surgery. And he's like, you know what? I'll do it after the playoffs.

Speaker 1 Fuck it. I'm going to send this to Max.
See if he can puke again.

Speaker 1 Oh, shit. You're playing gnarly, right? You know what? You know what? Lucies.
Teeth don't get enough credit for being as big as they are. Yeah.
They're like icebergs.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they're icebergs. Yeah, icebergs.
Yeah. They're like, they're crazy when you take a tooth.

Speaker 5 This is a front tooth.

Speaker 4 Two front teeth.

Speaker 1 It's like a fang. Nuts.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's a canine tooth. He's Russian.
He might be part wolf.

Speaker 1 Max, what would make you puke right now? What visual? No visuals. Why do you guys want me to puke? It would be great for numbers.
No, it wouldn't.

Speaker 1 He's going to drown. He's going to drown.
The way this guy's drinking right now, he's going to drown. He's not even lifting his head.

Speaker 4 Memes,

Speaker 4 how many numbers would this clip do if Max just puked during the show?

Speaker 1 He just started puking on himself. It would rip.

Speaker 1 It would rip. If we had to call the police and be like, someone get to his house right now and put him on his side so he doesn't Jimi Hendrix himself.
I mean, if you're there,

Speaker 1 okay, he's good. He's not going to die.

Speaker 4 If you died during the show, it would be tremendous for the ratings.

Speaker 1 Incredible.

Speaker 1 That would be true. Oh, man.
All right. Do we have anything else?

Speaker 1 I know this has nothing to do with the NBA or NHL. Oh, I have two topics that don't.

Speaker 1 The Cubs are just one of the most exciting teams. They just play awesome games every night.

Speaker 1 They had a home run with one out left in the bottom of the night to go to extras and then win against the Dodgers. Fun to beat the Dodgers.
They're very fun to watch.

Speaker 1 I don't know if it's sustainable to win every game like 11 to 10, but we're going to find out. And then we should say the Pope passed away on Monday after we recorded on Sunday night.

Speaker 1 And are we as officially as a podcast, are we all down to officially endorse Pizza Bala? I think that should be our pick.

Speaker 4 Well, I like him, but again, I go back to the fact that having a fat Pope would be great for the vibes.

Speaker 1 It would. I would love to see a fat pope.
Pierre Batista Pizzabala.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's a good name. It is his name.

Speaker 4 But Big K, that's short-sighted because when you become pope, you take on a new pope name.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but we'll always know. We'll always know him as Pope Pizzabala.
You'll forget.

Speaker 4 He'll be like, oh, I'm Pope Innocent 17th.

Speaker 1 It's not going to be.

Speaker 1 What if he goes from Pope Pizzabala to Pope Calzone? He's like, my new name is Calzone.

Speaker 4 I would respect that. I would respect that a lot.
Yeah, I would like to see a fat pope. Also, if you're the Pope, it must be a real letdown to die right after Easter.

Speaker 4 Because if you die on Easter as the Pope, that's some pizzazz.

Speaker 1 That's some flair.

Speaker 4 That is a one-way ticket to sainthood.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 4 Like, that is, that is all. It's like when I think Thomas Jefferson, didn't he die on the 4th of July?

Speaker 1 I think so. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Pretty cool thing. If you're the Pope and you die on Easter, you're like, that's a legacy move right there.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and he missed it by like a couple hours, right? Yeah.

Speaker 4 And apparently, our vice president, J.D. Vance, was the last person to see the Pope alive.

Speaker 1 Wearing a yellow tie.

Speaker 4 Interesting.

Speaker 5 What is that?

Speaker 1 No idea. But you know how, like, Twitter works now? Where people would be like, look, look, like, what do you see? And it's just a video.
And I just stare at it for 20 minutes.

Speaker 1 I'm like, I don't know what I see. I saw one that was like interesting that J.D.
Vance was wearing a yellow tie when he met the Pope. I was like, what is this supposed to mean?

Speaker 5 Or that the last two sitting popes to die was like before the two world wars.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was 1914 and 1939.

Speaker 1 Is that true? I don't know. I don't.

Speaker 1 It can't be the last two sitting popes.

Speaker 4 Like, what happened to the other popes? They just, they retired and then they died.

Speaker 1 Well, that one pope, the Nazi pope, left. Yeah.
Right? Yeah. Didn't he just bounce?

Speaker 4 Yeah,

Speaker 4 they got him out the paint.

Speaker 1 Hold on. I'm looking up the fact that I think this was just a meme that Hank saw because I saw this.

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah, no, yeah, no, I saw one thing.

Speaker 5 It was, yeah. I wasn't going to say it till you said the yellow tie thing, but.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, just, I mean, you have to, you have to realize realize he was wearing a yellow tie.

Speaker 1 Pope dies 1914. World War I started.
Pope dies in 1939. World War II started.
But where's the me being informed that sitting popes also died in 1914 and 1939?

Speaker 1 But there have been other popes that have died in between, right?

Speaker 4 I would think so.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Based off how you just said that.

Speaker 1 Like, when did

Speaker 4 that dude, John Paul, die? John Paul II.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'm looking

Speaker 1 at the facts real quick. By the way, the Lakers have won.
Luca was awesome tonight. This is just, this is a, the West does feel like outside of the Grizzlies

Speaker 1 Thunder series, it's going to be a war, those other three series, and it's going to be great. And it just, it felt like this is like

Speaker 1 losing game one at home. That's why I'm going to take the, here's a free pick for everyone, DraftKings.

Speaker 1 I'm going to take the Rockets. I'm going to take the Rockets tonight because I just, if you lose game one at home

Speaker 1 and you're an equal team,

Speaker 1 I think you're probably going to win game two at home because you have a little more of a, you know, a little more drive.

Speaker 1 I feel like there's something mentally where if you win game one on the road, you're, not that they're not going to try the Warriors, but mission accomplished. Yeah.
You know,

Speaker 5 that's what you say at the beginning of every like two games.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we got to get a split. Yeah.
Right. Steal them.
Steal home court.

Speaker 4 Also, if you're the Rockets, game two kind of feels like a game seven.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 agreed.

Speaker 1 All right, so John Paul II, he died in 2005.

Speaker 4 So was he not the Pope then when he died?

Speaker 1 Recession? I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 1 John Paul I died in 1978.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I feel like popes die.

Speaker 1 a decent amount because they don't don't when they make the popes they they always it's never never like a young pope.

Speaker 4 No, you got to be old. I feel like you have to be that's a Netflix show in your 50s.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 5 is it actually? Oh, yeah, it is actually.

Speaker 1 All right. Any other thoughts on the uh,

Speaker 1 I think the Lakers Wolves is going to be a six or seven game series. And I, I expected the Lakers to win tonight, and uh, I expected what we saw.

Speaker 1 I mean, Luca is, was the best player on, is the best player on the court when he wants to be. And LeBron is still like LeBron's still really, really good.
I mean, he went for 21, 11, and 7.

Speaker 1 Like he's, if they can, if they can get a little bit from, they got a little bit from Rui, they got Austin Reeves, and that's enough.

Speaker 4 I do have a Monday reading. That's okay.

Speaker 4 It's a tweet from Kanye West.

Speaker 4 Oh. No, I'm not going to do that.

Speaker 4 I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it.
But the thought did cross my mind when I saw it. Like, I already put something in the drafts for a banger week one.

Speaker 4 How are you getting ready for NFL Sunday with the Falcons Cousins Peenix?

Speaker 1 He might not be on them. He might not be on it.
For PFTs, keep them, Atlanta. Keep them.
Yeah, come on.

Speaker 4 Do the right thing.

Speaker 1 All right, we're going to kick it to ourselves where we're going to talk Monday night schemes, which were a lot more exciting. And then we have Todd McShea on the show.
We have Matt LaFleur.

Speaker 1 I said it at the opening of the show, but you will not find another podcast or media entity that will spend 10 of the 30 minutes interviewing an NFL head coach trying to explain to him who the Rizzler is.

Speaker 1 That's a guarantee.

Speaker 1 That is where it devolved with Matt LaFleur. And then we'll finish with listener FAQs.
And hopefully, Max will be back in studio on Thursday for the NFL draft. Yep.
I'll be back Thursday.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're back in studio. We're going to talk a little Monday night games.

Speaker 1 We're going to start with the Knicks and the Pistons. I want to start with the Pistons, PFT, and congratulate Pistons fans.
They had a 15-game losing streak in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 They had not won a playoff game in 17 years.

Speaker 4 May 2008.

Speaker 1 May 2008. It is, I know that obviously this series is only 1-1, and,

Speaker 1 you know, there's a lot of basketball left in this series, and they're probably not going to win the title this year.

Speaker 1 But you got to celebrate these moments because Cade Cunningham was phenomenal, and he's a real dude. And that was like the moment where it's like, hey, this is all last year.

Speaker 1 Remember, this team last year lost 28 games in a row. They lost 28 games in a row.
They started the season last year 2-1. They went 2-29 to 2-29 to 3-36.
They finished last season with 14 wins.

Speaker 1 They are now,

Speaker 1 they won 44 games this year. They're in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 They just took a young team with a young star in Cade Cunningham into Madison Square Garden and almost won both games, but decisively won game, not decisively, but they won game two.

Speaker 1 This is something that Pistons fans should enjoy and revel in and be like, yes, like it is now trending towards the right way.

Speaker 1 All of Detroit sports, by the way, besides the Red Wings, like think about it. The Lions have been bad forever.
They've obviously the last few years have been really good.

Speaker 1 The Tigers were bad for a really long time. They've been good.
And now the Pistons.

Speaker 4 And Michigan football beat Ohio State. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So it's good, too.

Speaker 1 It's cool for Pistons fans.

Speaker 1 That's a moment that you're like, hey, the monkeys off our back. I mean, that's a crazy losing streak.
I think it was the longest losing streak in NBA history.

Speaker 4 Yeah, so that 2007, 2008 Pistons team, that was like the end of the bad boy era, the bad boy part two era.

Speaker 1 I think they won their first game, then got gentlemen swept.

Speaker 4 Yeah, so that was.

Speaker 5 I think that was the 23 points in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 1 LeBron? That's

Speaker 4 when LeBron killed him? Yeah. Yeah, so that was, I think it was Rashid, Chauncey, Rip, and Tayshawn.
I don't think Ben Wallace was. But Ben Wallace came to the Bulls.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Put a big.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
It's crazy. So it's, I'm happy for Pistons fans that they get this moment,

Speaker 1 especially, you know, we saw it last year when you're when you're a smaller market going up against the Knicks in the playoffs. The story is going to be about the Knicks.

Speaker 1 They went in there, won that game.

Speaker 1 Yeah, let's see what.

Speaker 1 I think they had won

Speaker 1 since their last series win. Okay, so they won.
So that year they had won two series, and then they lost in the conference finals to the

Speaker 1 LeBron, and then that was it. Oh, no, they lost in the conference finals to the Celtics.
So

Speaker 1 the, yeah, I think LeBron was earlier than that.

Speaker 4 That was a great series, though, when it was like LeBron and then nobody against the Pistons. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But I'm happy for Pistons fans. Kate Cunningham is awesome, 33-12.

Speaker 1 He was great. Tobias Harris has been great.

Speaker 1 Dennis Schroeder was, that was like that three that he made because that felt like the Pistons were going to lose that game in a similar fashion to the game one where it's like they played really well for three quarters and they just couldn't hold on to it.

Speaker 1 They couldn't hit a shot for like three minutes. And then Schroeder hits that shot.
And he's, I mean, he was like a very calming, you know, he's a veteran.

Speaker 1 He's been on a million teams, but he's, he's, he's seen some of these moments.

Speaker 4 Bet on himself.

Speaker 1 Bet on himself. And yeah, it was, it was cool.
And Beatball Paul. Shout out Beatball Paul.
Our guy, Beatball Paul, had a nice putback. He had six points.
So the Pistons, they're fun.

Speaker 4 The end of this game was very, very close at the end. And that Schroeder 3 made all the difference.
And then watching, I didn't watch all the game because my eyes were mostly focused on the caps.

Speaker 4 But watching the highlights of this game, they showed Jalen Brunson highlights from the game. I don't think you can call them highlights.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 I don't think, I don't, what they showed from that game was like four different plays where he does the insurance fraud. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Where he's in front of you in traffic, slams on the brakes, you run into it, you're like, what the hell? And then he's like, oh, yeah, I got to file a claim. Sorry, you hit me.
Yep.

Speaker 1 The all right. So, yeah, I have, I have a take I was brewing last night that obviously I understand how this works.
Knicks fans, you have to defend your guy. And Jalen Brunson's really good.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. So Knicks fans, you could be like, you're an idiot.
You don't know what you're talking about. Fuck you.
All of it. I understand how it works.

Speaker 1 I personally, I like Jalen Brunson as a player. I like, I I mean, I loved watching him at Villanova.
He's a phenomenal basketball player.

Speaker 1 The foul baiting has gotten to a point where it's just hard to watch. And it's not just the foul baiting.

Speaker 1 And this part is less Jalen Brunson and more probably Tibbs, who I feel like hots, big time hot seat. This might be the end for him.

Speaker 1 The

Speaker 1 Knicks in this fourth quarter, they just go to straight ISO ball, foul baiting. No one else touches the ball.
Jalen Brunson just trying to score. And it's bad basketball to watch.

Speaker 4 So So from what I've seen, Knicks fans, they tend to agree. In games that they lose.
Yeah. In games that they win, they're like, well, it works.
It's winning basketball.

Speaker 4 But when they lose, I think even they're like, come on, man. Let's have some watchable basketball.
Right.

Speaker 1 And by the way, because I know I saw this,

Speaker 1 it is not just Jalen Brunson. SGA does it a lot.
James Harden was the king of it. He invented it.
He invented it. Chris Paul, like, there are guys who do the foul baiting.
And if you want to say...

Speaker 4 You know, it was flopping last night, too?

Speaker 1 Yeah. And if you want want to say, well, that's an officiating problem, I would agree with you.

Speaker 1 Like, there was, remember, there was that like two-week stretch where they were like, hey, we're going to stop letting guys jump into each to another guy and not even try to attempt a shot.

Speaker 1 They called it for like two weeks and they stopped calling it. If they started calling those again, I think it would probably fix itself.

Speaker 1 But as it stands right now, I do not enjoy watching Jalen Brunson play basketball. And that's just a personal opinion of mine.
It doesn't mean that he's not a good player. He's a phenomenal player.

Speaker 1 I just don't like watching it because it's not fun. And it's him isolation,

Speaker 1 doing the stop and start, kind of jumping into people. And it's not a great watch.

Speaker 4 He'll jump in front of you. They need to implement something that's similar to the charge rule.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 Where Jalen Brunson, if he gets in front of you, he has to have established position and you have to have time to avoid him. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Instead of just hitting two feet, stopping, getting the ball, and having the guy barely clip you on the back and fall down.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and it was a game that was so it's not all on Jalen Brunson. I think the coaching for the Knicks was really bad in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 1 Carl Anthony Towns, and now Carl Anthony Towns is someone that has had disappearing acts in the playoffs. I actually don't know if this one was 100% on him.

Speaker 1 He took his last shot with 520 to go in the third quarter. They just didn't run anything for him.

Speaker 1 I think I saw, I got to find the stat. I think Jalen Brunson passed it to him 12 times total,

Speaker 1 which is pretty shocking.

Speaker 1 Carl Anthony Towns, whatever you want to say about the guy, he is a like elite offensive player, and he's one of the best big man shooters of all time. And yeah, here it is.

Speaker 1 Over the first two games of the series, oh, it's the first two games, Brunson has passed the ball to Towns a total of 12 times.

Speaker 1 12 times. I don't understand how you're not running Jalen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns in pick and roll.

Speaker 1 And I know Carl Anthony Towns has had moments where he's been soft or he hasn't like pushed the action.

Speaker 1 Last night watching that game, I don't think that was 100% on him because I think they just were like everyone clear out of the way, and they're not running anything for him, and they're not trying to get him involved, and you just can't win that way when

Speaker 1 he doesn't get a shot for the last quarter and a half.

Speaker 4 That's insane. It is.
I thought 50 Cent put it best when he commented on what happened yesterday. Did you see 50's comments? No.
He said, fuck today, man. The Knicks lost.
Oh, yeah, I just lost.

Speaker 4 The Pope died. And Kanye told us he sucked his cousin's dick for eight years.
Yeah. I'm going to bet early tomorrow.
Got to be a better day. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, what else can you say?

Speaker 4 What else can you say? Can you say high-level analysis from 50?

Speaker 1 But I do think it's lazy to be like, Carla D. Towns just disappeared because they also just, they're not running plays to try to get him involved.

Speaker 4 The Knicks are the biggest, like, good vibes, bad vibes, bust, depending on what happens in that game. When they win, it's like these guys are a bunch of dogs.

Speaker 4 Tibbs has a guy playing, he's got the guys playing Hungry. This is Tibbs basketball.
This is awesome. I love the grittiness.
When the Knicks lose, it's like this team sucks. I hate watching them.

Speaker 4 Yeah. And it all depends on the result of the game.

Speaker 1 And you also had Mikael Bridges missing a three at the end of the game, and he's not playing great, and they traded a lot for him. It does feel bad vibes.
Great vibes. But I also, we had Detroit.

Speaker 1 The big word that

Speaker 1 gets used a lot in the NBA community is ethical versus unethical hoops. Cade Cunningham is an ethical hooper.
Jalen Brunson is an unethical hooper. Okay.
I don't really, I'm not using that.

Speaker 1 I just think it's very funny that they've gotten to that level.

Speaker 4 We're getting into moral relativism

Speaker 4 when we're talking about

Speaker 4 how people are playing basketball. And here's Newsflash.
There's no such thing as moral relativism in sports. Correct.
It's like, is it allowed? Did you score? If it's not, yeah, are you scoring, son?

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 If it's allowed by the rules, then you can do it. And if it's not, then you can still do it and try to get away with it.
And if you don't get away with it, then it's bad.

Speaker 1 My big thing is: so Kate Cunningham is, I'm not going to say he's an ethical hooper, but he does, he tries tries to play through contact. He's going forcefully to the hoop.

Speaker 1 I always just judge it is, is a player trying to score or are they trying to get fouled? And when it leans more to trying to get fouled, that's just not basketball I want to watch.

Speaker 4 It just sucks to watch. Yeah, we're not going to talk about altruism.
It's balltruism.

Speaker 4 He's a balltruistic player. I do, you know what? Like, yeah, obviously that's a ridiculous take to make, to start putting labels on ethical or not.
It's unenviable hoopers.

Speaker 1 That's what people are saying.

Speaker 4 But the more I think about it, the more I kind of agree. Like, he's playing the game the way that it's meant to be played.
Right. This is how I know I'm getting old.
Yes.

Speaker 4 Where I'm like, yeah, you know what? That's when Dr. James Naismith nailed up the peach basket.

Speaker 4 He was thinking about Cade Cunningham. Yeah.
He wasn't thinking about Chris Paul.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
You're absolutely right. He was, Cade Cunningham was exactly, he was envisioning that.
Yeah, one day

Speaker 4 there will be a young hooper from Oklahoma.

Speaker 1 One day the Pistons will be on a 17-year drought.

Speaker 4 in the playoffs. Well, at the time.

Speaker 1 And Cade Cunningham will come and be the savior.

Speaker 4 You would have been like, wait, what are Pistons? Yeah. Those don't exist.

Speaker 1 That's true. Yeah.
That's a good point. Now,

Speaker 4 Knickerbockers, they existed.

Speaker 1 When was the car invented?

Speaker 4 When was the piston invented?

Speaker 5 1880.

Speaker 4 Are you just making that up?

Speaker 1 This is a guess? That's a guess. That was a guess.

Speaker 4 When was the

Speaker 1 car invented?

Speaker 4 The piston invented.

Speaker 1 1902.

Speaker 4 Maybe the first cars didn't have pistons.

Speaker 1 1886. Good job, babe.
Hey!

Speaker 1 I don't know, yeah, if there were pistons in them. I don't know.

Speaker 4 The fastest horses. That's what he would have have envisioned.

Speaker 1 Can you Google when pistons were invented?

Speaker 4 I just invented when was the piston invented, and it says that the jet for the Winnipeg is an F-15 Eagle, so this is all fucked up.

Speaker 1 Okay, so James Naismith invented basketball in 1891, so that was after the car.

Speaker 1 So it could have maybe.

Speaker 4 Yeah, internal combustion. I don't know, not car guys.

Speaker 1 Yeah, not car guys.

Speaker 3 We're jet guys.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 The

Speaker 1 Hank, do you agree with the Jalen Brunson thing? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Max is is not here. He's sick.

Speaker 5 Very James Harden-esque.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I didn't like when James Harden did it. No.
And I don't like when SGA.

Speaker 4 And Max not being here is James Harden-esque. Both.

Speaker 1 That is true. Yeah, like it's not just him.
I'm not just picking on him. When SGA does it, I don't like it.

Speaker 1 It's lame.

Speaker 4 But Jalen Brunson also does things that you watch and you enjoy.

Speaker 1 Of course. He's a mid-range game.

Speaker 1 I mean, he's like in Bed.

Speaker 5 Max isn't here, but it's like Embiid too. It's like when they get addicted to foul baiting, and it takes away from their skill.

Speaker 4 It's like a kid in school that tattles early on. They get their way.
They learn that they can have the teacher punish the kids they don't like.

Speaker 4 And then later, you know, three years later, they're just a jerk.

Speaker 5 Like they have the ability to blow by someone, but rather than just finish, they're like, let me wait for someone to come by.

Speaker 1 Jimmy Rutler does it sometimes where it's like

Speaker 1 you're not trying to score. You're just trying to get fouled.
And like if the shot that you huck up there somehow goes in, you'd be like, great, and one.

Speaker 1 Not me. I'm an ethical hooper.
I am as well.

Speaker 1 I I don't call fouls. No.
Literally,

Speaker 1 if I were in the NBA, I'd be like, Ref, do not let, do not call a foul for me.

Speaker 4 Yeah, no blood, no foul.

Speaker 1 Clipper's Nuggets has been an incredible series, and Kawhi is all the way back. What a fucking game for him.
39 points. He was 15 for 19.
There was a moment there. I think he was 11 for 12.

Speaker 1 This series just rocks.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I said on, I think, Monday's show, like, if you watched the way that Kawhi just looked on the court, the way he was asserting himself, like, this guy is just 100% healthy now.

Speaker 4 I think he just refuses to play unless he's 110%, unless he's feeling like the best he's ever felt in his life.

Speaker 4 So, with Kawhi, if he's on your team, you're either going to get like the best player in the NBA, one of them, all around, or you're going to get a guy that's just going to disappear for six months.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but so when we were talking about it on Monday, I thought in game one, he was, he had the look of it, but he didn't assert himself the way that like Kawhi can assert himself and take over a game.

Speaker 1 He did that in game two. Yeah.
He's like, this is, I'm, I'm the guy, and it's me, and there's nothing you can can do about it.

Speaker 1 And he's got that ability where it's not even, they're not, it's not even like stuff they're drawing up necessarily.

Speaker 1 It's just that he's got a one-on-one matchup and you can't stop his mid-range game and his moves. And he's just too strong and too fast, too tall.
Like he just, he's so good.

Speaker 4 I have a question for you, Big Cat. Is Russell Westbrook contagious?

Speaker 1 Oh, who caught it?

Speaker 4 Jamal Murray? Jamal Murray, a little bit. Jokic caught a tinge of the Westbrook itis last night.

Speaker 1 Jokic has always had a little bit of it.

Speaker 4 He had a good amount of it last night, especially down the stretch. What did he have, like seven or eight turnovers? Yeah, he did.

Speaker 1 I mean, he did have a triple-double. He did? Yeah.

Speaker 4 But he, yeah. But there was some out-of-control.

Speaker 1 Jabal Murray did it. He just picked up, who was it, Norman Powell? Yeah.
He just picked him up, and it was the most confusing thing ever.

Speaker 4 I feel like the whole team has just, they're a little bit more Russell Westbrook,

Speaker 4 even the guys who aren't Russell Westbrook than they were last year.

Speaker 4 I think they caught it a little bit.

Speaker 1 It was funny. It's always funny watching Russ play, and when he hits a big three, you're like, that was a big three, but it's going to cost cost you the next two because he's going to do it again.

Speaker 4 Yeah, get ready for some shots that go just directly off the back.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And it was nice to see Michael Porter Jr., who was not good.
I think he got benched in game one, came back and played well.

Speaker 1 This series is just two teams that are both really good, evenly matched that I hope go seven.

Speaker 4 Porter might be hurt, too. That would be concerning if you're a nugget.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 I said this to PFT at dinner on Saturday, but I Kawhi is the Brooks Kepka of basketball.

Speaker 1 Ooh, I like that.

Speaker 5 His peers will be like, he's the best. Like, he can be the best.
He can beat the best when he's on his A-game. He just doesn't care about like, you know, maybe like

Speaker 5 starts or, you know, playing the regular season.

Speaker 5 It's just when the time matters the most, like, he can perform better than anyone. Right.

Speaker 1 Like, you could make the argument. So if you said last 10 years,

Speaker 1 everyone is equal, like, healthy in their prime,

Speaker 1 would it be LeBron Steph Kawhi?

Speaker 4 He's got a pretty high hit rate.

Speaker 1 Would it be

Speaker 5 three? I saw, I think it was like Dragonfly Jones. It's like, I've seen he's been the best player in playoff series versus LeBron versus Giannis.
Right.

Speaker 1 Versus all these players.

Speaker 5 He has had series where he's the best player in that series.

Speaker 1 And it's like all the people you're about to mention. And I'm saying 10 years because Jokic obviously is in the conversation, but that's more recent in the last five years.

Speaker 1 And obviously, KD would be up there.

Speaker 5 Tatum Brown.

Speaker 1 But that's more recent. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah. You would, but you would.

Speaker 1 But he's up there.

Speaker 1 He doesn't get talked about like that because he's Kawaii, not only because he's hurt a lot, but he's also Kawhi. He doesn't have like a, he's not marketing himself.
Right.

Speaker 4 When his code is like completely compiled and all the systems are running and he's out there, there's very few people that are better than him. Yeah.

Speaker 4 But when one thing is wrong, he just shuts, he goes into a hard reboot.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 He's like, I need to go back in the shed for a while and wrench on myself. And I'll be back.
I'm going to be back when I'm back. And when I'm back, I'm going to be awesome.

Speaker 1 And I'll say this for James Harden, not the biggest fan, but like the combo of James Harden and Kawhi

Speaker 1 is why you should, like, people are high on the Clippers and why they win games like this. Because at the end of the game in a playoff series, you need guys who are just pure shot makers.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Like

Speaker 1 they can make the big shot, and those guys can do that.

Speaker 1 I mean, James Harden, maybe not later on in the series, but it's early enough in the series where he can still be the shot maker.

Speaker 4 Has there been a time if you're a Nuggets fan when you're watching this team and you're like,

Speaker 4 it would be advantageous to us if we had our coach.

Speaker 4 Because there was one of those moments last night.

Speaker 4 Seemed like a couple just stutters of the rotation where it didn't seem like they were completely confident in what they should be doing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but they did not like Michael Malone. That's true.
These are the reports.

Speaker 4 Yeah, but guess what? Sometimes the team unites around hating the coach. That's a fact.

Speaker 1 That's literally how Bobby Knight coached. Right.

Speaker 1 He wanted them all to hate him.

Speaker 4 Yeah, they have something that's great in common. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Like a bedrock of who they are as a person is they fucking hate their coach together yeah as one together uh all right it's like hank and us yeah

Speaker 1 that's absolutely true yeah if hank well no he's right i am right he's who am i in this situation you're the coach oh yeah yeah

Speaker 1 if you didn't if you didn't sit in that

Speaker 1 if you didn't sit on that couch if you didn't sit on that couch and daydream about golf and like tune in and out uh pft and i would maybe fight each other Yeah.

Speaker 4 We'd have to take out our aggression on each other.

Speaker 1 You're like a lightning rod where

Speaker 1 you take the most amount of lightning so we can just keep surviving.

Speaker 4 Even the fact that you're pretending to not understand the synalogies and fury is pissing me off.

Speaker 1 It's pissing me the fuck off.

Speaker 5 I tune out so I talk less.

Speaker 4 That's why you do it.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 5 People, I used to edit this podcast for a long time. I used to hear myself talking.

Speaker 1 But you don't anymore, so you don't have to.

Speaker 5 But I'd be like, why did I speak at that point? The more paying attention I am, the more I speak.

Speaker 4 So you don't

Speaker 4 evolve. So, you, you, you tune out now because you had to do so much work back then.

Speaker 5 No, I just like would be listening. It's like, oh, this is funny.
Great, they're great banter. And then, like, I would hear myself come in and just be like,

Speaker 1 but PFT is right in the

Speaker 1 didn't need to say that. If we did just a podcast,

Speaker 1 if it was just the two of us talking and we like didn't have anyone else speak,

Speaker 1 that would get crazy. Yeah.
We would, we would go crazy. All right, yeah.
Happy to help. Like, Pug here.

Speaker 1 Pug.

Speaker 1 What a

Speaker 1 big chair. Here we go.
Do we think Max is? I guess people have already listened to it. Do we think Max is going to join the Zoom tonight?

Speaker 4 I hope he does from the toilet. Yeah.
He's got bad diarrhea.

Speaker 1 Is Max, like, because this is.

Speaker 1 We've never missed podcasts. No.
And listen, the guy's sick.

Speaker 1 But we don't miss podcasts. Yeah.
Listen. Right.
You don't miss podcasts, Hank.

Speaker 4 We've never missed a podcast. Max gets he.
Knock on wood.

Speaker 1 He had.

Speaker 1 Last night was what? It was like Chili Cheese Fry night at his favorite bar, and then all of a sudden he gets sick. Meatball night.
It was meatball night.

Speaker 4 Wait, was it really?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was. And then he wakes up.
He's like, oh, we had like a commercial shoot we had to do all morning. Max was supposed to be part of it.
He does meatball night.

Speaker 1 And next thing you know, he's sick.

Speaker 4 Meatball Monday is. That's a wild move.
Like getting back into your week with a meatball dinner.

Speaker 1 We should make him start having to do like LeBron style videos. Meatball.
It's meatball Monday. Yay.

Speaker 1 Hockey, PFT, Ovi, awesome. Great game, huh?

Speaker 4 Well, not really. It was a great two periods.
You almost blew it. And then half the third period, and then overtime was cool again.
Man, I just love watching Ovie play so much.

Speaker 4 I think it was Grant Paulson who tweeted out the clip of the hit that Ovie laid, and I think he had seven or eight hits last night. He's an animal.
He was fucking insane last night.

Speaker 4 If you're a kid, if you're a 10-year-old kid and you're creating your own player, your custom player in a video game,

Speaker 4 and you have a certain limit of how many points you can give for attributes, I feel like you would create Ovie every time like like shot power 100 shot accuracy 100 hit power 100 yeah and that's what you do like he's exactly what I would create as a as like a 12 year old but yeah the the guys looked great in the first two periods um just physically dominant controlling play down in there and then it all fell apart in the second half of uh of the third period and then my butthole tightened up real real tight and I was like fuck we're gonna lose because 2-0 most dangerously in hockey that's facts and they scored one.

Speaker 4 I was like, they're going to get another. And the goaltending, I don't know if you saw the second goal last night.
This is what I'm worried about.

Speaker 1 The second goal from the Canadians, yes.

Speaker 4 This is what I'm worried about with this team.

Speaker 4 Lindgren was standing a full crease outside of his own crease at one point, just leaving the goal wide open.

Speaker 4 That concerns me a little bit. But overall, still feeling good about the caps.
I do like Ryan Leonard, too. I like the rookie that they've got.

Speaker 4 He hasn't really scored much, but he's just out there looking to hit people. And he's got those young legs that you can see.
Like, he's fresh. Yeah.
So, yeah, fun game.

Speaker 1 It was also very funny that they put up the graphic that Ovi had never scored a playoff OT goal. Yeah.
And then three seconds later, he wins the game. What an animal.

Speaker 4 Yeah, Stav is walking across the screen right now. We talked to Stav a little bit about how if you're like a fan of a team, you learn to defend and you become like a deputized legal expert

Speaker 4 in anything that your players do wrong so you can defend them. I realized last night that I've become that way about Ovi.
You have to.

Speaker 1 To the extent where now I'm like, Ukraine might have had some bioweapons.

Speaker 1 There's some bad dudes.

Speaker 4 Some bad guys. Listen,

Speaker 4 they're saying they might want to join NATO one day.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Some bad mamma jammas.
And then, I mean, it was a great night. It was a great night in playoffs on Monday night.

Speaker 1 The Jets now have a Commanding 2-0 lead. And then the Avalanche Stars game was awesome.
The overtime was like they were just going full fucking tilt back and forth.

Speaker 1 There's nothing better than playoff overtime when you don't get a commercial and it's like no puck stoppage and you just have like seven minutes straight of the boys just flying down the ice back and forth.

Speaker 4 I was going to say there's nothing better than overtime playoff hockey when you're not rooting for one of the two teams. That's the overtime playoff hockey.
Yes. Because that sucks.

Speaker 1 Oh, the you have

Speaker 1 Max's Twitter?

Speaker 1 Can you tweet that? Are you logged in? Can you tweet that? Should I tweet that? Yeah, tweet that. Pug's just going to tweet meatballs.

Speaker 1 He's going to nerd me out.

Speaker 1 And then, and then, did you guys see the

Speaker 1 Kings?

Speaker 1 The Kings Oilers game was very mean to the Oilers because the Oilers were down all game and they fought all the way back and they tied it 5-5 and then they gave up a goal with like 30 seconds left to lose the game.

Speaker 1 But the real star of the night was the Harmonica band that did the national anthem, which was, if you're LA, that was actually a really smart move because like what other way to get your opponent off their game than just throw the most LA thing at them?

Speaker 1 Well, I don't know.

Speaker 4 You're in LA, you might think like Fergie's coming out there. And then it's harmonicas.
And then it's harmonicas. Then you've got, wait, was it the Korean harmonica orchestra? Yes.

Speaker 4 I think all these ladies, they appear to be on the silver side of life. Yeah.
But still very vibrant and youthful.

Speaker 1 I thought it was beautiful. Yeah.
It was. I love watching our friend Ryan Whitney's tweets during Euler's games because he's just living and dying.

Speaker 1 And it was like, it was actually really cruel what happened because

Speaker 1 they were down 5-3 and the game was over. And they scored two goals in like 30 seconds to tie it 5-5.
And then the Kings just came back and won it with less than a minute left.

Speaker 5 This one was quite literally like to an ⁇ I felt

Speaker 5 this was directly to me, or it felt like this was like a directly personal experience. I feel like I just dipped for the first time

Speaker 5 on the Gravatron at the carnival.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Like,

Speaker 1 I'm a little bit of a Puke County Carnival

Speaker 5 in Situate Harbor every year. Did it? And the Gravatron, it's like in the summer, and everyone's, that's like,

Speaker 5 I think the first time I dipped was

Speaker 1 in the summer at the carnival.

Speaker 4 You go inside and there's no parents around. Does everybody have a Gravatron? Because I had a Gravatron drive.

Speaker 4 Is it the same Gravatron that just goes around the country? Are there multiple Gravatron?

Speaker 1 And the first time you dip is just

Speaker 1 Puke City. Yeah.
What was was it?

Speaker 5 I had braces, too.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to remember.

Speaker 5 I never. I dipped twice and puked.

Speaker 1 The grizzly. Very bad, bro.
Grizzly.

Speaker 1 Grizzly winner grape.

Speaker 5 Kodiak grape.

Speaker 4 When I was Copenhagen.

Speaker 1 Ooh, fancy boy.

Speaker 1 It's hard body.

Speaker 4 It's hard body. It was at a varsity football game.
I was in eighth grade, and everyone puked. And then we're like, I can't wait to do this again.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that rocked. My head is buzzing.

Speaker 4 We should get a Gravatron for the office.

Speaker 1 I'm down. Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 4 How much do you think a Gravatron costs? I'm going to guess.

Speaker 1 Pug is really

Speaker 1 way better at this.

Speaker 4 Oh, I think it's more. I think it's like $129,000.

Speaker 1 Pug is way better at this than Max.

Speaker 1 Googling some of the stuff.

Speaker 5 I think some of the things you said to me might apply to some other people, too.

Speaker 1 What do you mean?

Speaker 1 Oh, Max being the lightning rod?

Speaker 5 That?

Speaker 1 Well, no,

Speaker 1 he's like the smaller lightning rod that you pass your lightning off to him.

Speaker 4 Wait, Max is the smaller one?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's crazy that it happened for Max. $48,000.
Gravitron. I mean,

Speaker 1 let's get one. Bought.

Speaker 1 We need the soft serve machine first.

Speaker 4 We're just turning this into a state theater.

Speaker 1 I need the soft serve machine. Where would we put it? Where do you want to put it? On the road.
On the roof?

Speaker 1 Rooftop Gravitron? Where do you want to put it?

Speaker 1 Okay, 45 passengers. Gravitron.

Speaker 1 I mean, we could probably rent one and put it in. We could do like a carney day.

Speaker 1 What are you shaking your fucking head? Don't shake your fucking head. We have have square footage for our fucking day.
I'm saying it.

Speaker 1 What if we did a day where we did it in the parking lot?

Speaker 4 Oh, we certainly do have enough square footage. Hank, look at that.
It's what, 55 feet wide? We have a basketball court.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but we do like to play basketball on it. Once you get the Gravitron, it makes basketball a little bit harder.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 But I mean, we use the basketball court for other things. Hank takes it over for putt-putt golf two weeks a year.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I do. Yeah.

Speaker 3 He does. So we can do this for like three days.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Do it for your little

Speaker 1 Gravitron cup.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Who can stay on it long enough without puking?

Speaker 4 Yeah. Marathon.

Speaker 1 And the person who stays on it long enough gets the Gravatron. I like that.
They just got to figure out how to get it out of here.

Speaker 4 It's now officially yours right now.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Stay long enough.

Speaker 1 Okay. Let's do some hot seat.
Cool throwing and then we'll get to our interviews. Hot seat.

Speaker 4 Hey, it's PFT here, reminding you that Boarshead makes Game Day Entertaining elevated and effortless.

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Best.

Speaker 1 Okay, hot seat, cool throne. Hank, hot seat.
What is it?

Speaker 1 Give it to us, Hank. What's your hot seat?

Speaker 5 My hot seat. I didn't know whether I was thinking about switching up my hot seat and cool throne, depending on how the wording goes, but I'll go with the hot seat.

Speaker 1 Tell us what you were thinking.

Speaker 1 Give us both, and we'll tell you which one should go to which.

Speaker 5 Okay, my hot seat, my first one was

Speaker 5 PFT. Okay,

Speaker 1 that should be cool. Okay.

Speaker 3 And then

Speaker 5 my cool throne was going to be controversies surrounding ESPN personalities.

Speaker 1 Okay, so yeah, the hot seat, you're right.

Speaker 5 Go ahead. So hot seat is the cool throne.

Speaker 1 No, no. You have the right to beat.
Put me on the hot seat. I don't know why.
Hot seat, PFT, and Max.

Speaker 1 Hot seat, PFT, and Max.

Speaker 5 We were having the guy off talking about, you know, who's got the best guys, Celtics, anyone else in the rest of the league.

Speaker 5 And this came across my desk, courtesy of my stats and research department. Oh, nice.

Speaker 5 And the athletic did a poll where they pulled NBA players and they asked who they think is going to win the championship.

Speaker 5 57.7%, said the Boston Celtics.

Speaker 4 Hank, what we're seeing here from Hank is a.

Speaker 1 What does that have to do with the guy off?

Speaker 4 A terrible attempt to reframe the best.

Speaker 5 The guy offers saying that the Celtics have the best guys.

Speaker 4 No, and Hank, what you're doing right now is this narrative you're trying to put out there is completely false. So let me just cut that down at the beginning.

Speaker 1 You guys being like,

Speaker 5 that's why I'm confident with my team. The guy off, Hank, was the players in the league who are playing the games.
57.7%.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 May I retort?

Speaker 4 Sure. Permission to rebut.

Speaker 1 I would also like the rebuttals. Okay.

Speaker 4 Well, tell you what. I'll just talk to Big Cat because you're not going to listen anyways.
Okay.

Speaker 4 The guy off was because Hank said, guy for guy, everyone on the Celtics is better than everyone on the Thunder. Yeah, that's crazy.
And so then we went down the list and found...

Speaker 5 That's his words like you have dementia.

Speaker 1 That guy did not exactly. Those words did not leave my mouth.
You're just saying.

Speaker 3 I said, let's go guy for guy.

Speaker 4 I'm calling Max. I'm calling Max.

Speaker 1 Guy for guy. He's probably eating meat.

Speaker 5 I said, let's go guy for guy.

Speaker 1 I do not say anything. While he calls Max, can I have a sidebar with you? Yes.
Hank,

Speaker 1 don't give it up. It was frustrating me on.
Don't tell him.

Speaker 4 What?

Speaker 4 You're going to tell him what he should have said?

Speaker 1 No, I'm going to tell it. Well, maybe something different.
But Sunday.

Speaker 5 Well, that you're picking all Celtics Bench.

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no. Sunday.

Speaker 1 When we're doing the show, I was getting very frustrated because in this room,

Speaker 1 I got no playoff teams. Max got no playoff teams.
PFT basically trolled you about your confidence. And then he went on to say that the Capitals are playing great and all this.

Speaker 1 Why didn't you just say to him, who are you scared of, PFT? And hold his feet to the fire with the Capitals.

Speaker 1 Because I'm not a troll. I want PFT to go.
I want to go.

Speaker 1 Check out.

Speaker 4 I was waiting for it the whole time.

Speaker 1 He literally was like putting it up on a T for you. And I was sitting there like, Hank, now's when you hop in and just hold him to these comments as well.
You go down the street.

Speaker 5 But I'm not going to to fake like I know NHL like he does with NBA.

Speaker 1 Like, I'm not going to be like, oh, like, let's go guy for guy.

Speaker 1 Like, fucking, let me read the roster and then just say, like, I don't know who you should be scared of, and I'm not going to pretend like I do.

Speaker 4 I'm not an NBA expert, but I do watch the association, and I do know some guys on the thunder that could be better than guys on the Celtic.

Speaker 1 Can I say that I am so scared to tweet about hockey because of like people just jumping down? Like, there was a save in the

Speaker 1 Starz Avs game, and it was an awesome save. And I was about to tweet that was an awesome save, but I I was just waiting for people to be like, dude, actually, that was a routine save.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because like, I don't fucking know. It looks cool to me.

Speaker 4 This happens every night in hockey.

Speaker 1 Like, basketball, I feel fine on. Did you see Nick Batum's no dip three? That's silky smooth.

Speaker 4 Also, now that you bring it up, I've been thinking for the last hour since we taped the NHL recap that my mentions tomorrow are just going to be like, dude, you don't even know the difference between Charlie Lindgren and Logan Thompson.

Speaker 4 And that's going to be tough for you. How could you?

Speaker 1 That's going to be.

Speaker 4 That's going to be a tough morning.

Speaker 1 How dare you?

Speaker 5 I was looking at a graphic from like TNT or one of the

Speaker 5 networks that posted the playoff schedules. And I looked at it for like 10 minutes, seeing where I was missing the Bruins.
Hey, Max. And that's how I found out there weren't in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 I'm like ready to hop on the bandwagon. Hold on with that.
Max, hang on one second.

Speaker 4 Max, you live to tape on Parmate. I'm going to put you on mute real quick.

Speaker 1 He just said that he was looking at the schedule for the playoffs when they were released, and that's how he found out the Bruins weren't in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 Hey, what a sweetest second. Where the fuck are we?

Speaker 4 Okay, Max. Yeah, we're on part of my take, number one sports podcast.
Pug's doing a great job behind the glass, looking stuff up real fast. First question, how is your butt?

Speaker 1 Butt is still bad. I stopped puking, though.
Okay, but Max,

Speaker 1 second question, why?

Speaker 1 You have the neurovirus and you're tweeting about meatballs in the middle of the day?

Speaker 1 That was somebody else who did that from my Twitter.

Speaker 4 Okay, they're liking all those pictures too from your account, I'm sure.

Speaker 4 The real reason why we want to talk to you was because Hank and I were having a little discussion and he put both you and I on his hot seat. You were not there to defend yourself.

Speaker 4 So he was talking about the guy off that we had when we were talking about the Thunder and the Celtics the other day.

Speaker 4 I told Hank that the entire premise of the guy off was because he said if you go down the list, there's not a single guy that you would take on the thunder over a single guy on the celtics can you confirm that that's true or did i did i say that or did i say do you want to go guy for guy

Speaker 5 i think the only one that he said was

Speaker 1 shay and tatum are awash but everything else was was but i didn't say i didn't say the words you could start the conversation it was hank saying every guy on the celtics it was just better than every guy on the thunder it was let's go guy for guy

Speaker 1 you

Speaker 1 i think you you may both be correct here i think you said that's not possible let's go guy for guy but it was under the assumption of so you're yeah no if he says let's go guy for guy that's not under the assumption that every single guy is better than every single guy

Speaker 4 well if hank says every guy on the celtics is better

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 was trying to say that but i never said the word that could be the assumption though that he has that he would win the guy off not that every guy is better than every other guy no he he said every guy on the celtics is better So I said, I will never have a guy.

Speaker 1 This is insane. This is actually insane.
Okay,

Speaker 1 let's go guy for guy.

Speaker 4 Get back to your toilet.

Speaker 1 All right. Bye.

Speaker 1 So, where did we get here? Do we have to lying?

Speaker 1 I'm not lying.

Speaker 1 But again,

Speaker 1 if he's trolling you, just troll him back with the girl.

Speaker 5 I guess I'll have to figure out how to do that.

Speaker 1 Get your research stats and research.

Speaker 4 Maybe learn French.

Speaker 1 Get them going. Yeah, they'll be going.
They're always sane.

Speaker 1 What are the Lockwood Riders? What are they?

Speaker 5 I don't know. It's just Gaz.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. Get Gaz to get some research going.

Speaker 5 He does.

Speaker 5 He's my number one guy.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
Your cool throne?

Speaker 5 My cool throne is

Speaker 5 controversies with ESPN personalities. Yeah.
Big-time ESPN personalities.

Speaker 5 One's a little more serious than the other one,

Speaker 5 but it's worth noting. The first one is Shannon Sharp is

Speaker 5 being

Speaker 5 accused of

Speaker 5 rape, and he's saying he released sex messages, and he said he's releasing a full sex tape, which is going to clear his name.

Speaker 4 Well, he said that the sex tape that's about to be revealed is through his accuser's attorney, which is Jay Busby. And he's saying that they're going to drop a 30-second clip of the sex tape.

Speaker 4 So, Shannon Sharp said, why don't you just release the entire sex tape and show the people the entire sex?

Speaker 5 Yeah, and he released some messages, which, again, it's pretty pretty wild times that this is like his defense. It's like, no, look at which I understand to an extent, but it's, it's, uh,

Speaker 5 he's, he's on the hot seat. This was right after the reports of him like signing a hundred million dollar podcast deal.

Speaker 4 Um, I do think it's fair to say that context could matter in a sex tape. For sure.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I have uh like how big never mind. I'm not.
This is one that I've opted out on. So

Speaker 3 I'm, I'm, I'll, I'll, I'm going to wait to make a

Speaker 1 decision. Wait for the facts that no one cares about.
No one cares what my decision is, but I'm going to wait to make a decision.

Speaker 5 Fair.

Speaker 1 I think that's fair.

Speaker 5 And the other one, this was more just funny, I think. And it kind of, we talked about it on the show a few weeks ago or a month ago with the Pat McAfee Stephen A thing.

Speaker 5 And I said, like, I think there's beef. And I got a lot of McAfee fans being like, no, like, they overwhelmingly reached out the next day and were like, you know, how are you saying this?

Speaker 5 That's a lie. Yada, yada, yada.
Paul Heyman

Speaker 5 was on the McAfee show.

Speaker 1 And I don't know if he has beef with McAfee or like he

Speaker 5 drunk or he just went

Speaker 5 scorched earth and basically was like, yeah, Pat, this is all the stuff Pat was saying off air and just laying it all out there. Like he doesn't like Stephen A.

Speaker 5 He thinks Stephen A is overpaid and he should be making more.

Speaker 5 He doesn't like,

Speaker 5 you know. ESPN tells him not to mention the podcast.
What does he do? He mentions the podcast.

Speaker 5 And McAfee was as visibly as uncomfortable as I've ever seen him.

Speaker 4 So I thought that was all fair as an entertainer. You bring him on, you probably expect him.
He's going to say some wild card shit, right?

Speaker 4 The one thing I had a problem with Heyman was he defied the sanctity of the blunt rotation. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So this was something that was

Speaker 1 also accused of puff, puff, puff, puff, puff, puff, puff, puff, puff, puff, taking edible, puff, puff, puff. Which is a hilarious accusation.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 But that's still, words that are said in the cipher stay in the cipher.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Listen, we like Pat, former coworker, friend of ours.

Speaker 1 Paul Heyman is one of those guys that if you invite him on your show,

Speaker 1 he's going to make a mess of it. Like,

Speaker 1 that's what he does. This is his job.
He's a wrestling manager, and he's like incredible on the mic. So it was an incredible clip.
Unbelievable.

Speaker 4 When Joe Buck has Artie Lang on,

Speaker 4 you got to expect him that he's going to say that he's going to jizz on your chest. Right.

Speaker 1 Paul Heyman's going to go crazy.

Speaker 5 Yeah, it was just a very, I mean, I felt bad for Pat in a way. It was like that.
No one wants to be in that situation, especially to PFT's point.

Speaker 5 It's like, you think you know a guy, you have conversations off air at a bar in a blunt rotation, whatever. When they just start saying that on air, like that's the worst spot to be in.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah. Like if we're having a conversation about ball and then it gets brought up on the air, and then we hate each other.

Speaker 5 Yeah, so actually, now I'm actually kind of Polymer was probably just putting words in his mouth that he never said.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he was being a strong.

Speaker 1 They're also the when he turned to the fan in the crowd and he's like, You suck, but it was your mom that taught me. I was like, I can't do anything about that.

Speaker 4 He's probably dropped that line 50,000 times in his life.

Speaker 4 And for the record, Hank, I'm not upset at you. I still love you.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 But I think that you're misremembering the conversation.

Speaker 5 I know you're misremembering the conversation.

Speaker 1 If one of you were to have dementia, who would it be? Me. Easy.
That's easy.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 4 PFT. My hot seat is Anthony Edwards.
He got fined $50,000 for some comments that he made courtside at the Lakers game. Yes.
Told a fan that he had a bigger dick than him. Probably true.

Speaker 4 which could be true that's probably why the fine is only fifty thousand dollars and now that i think about it fifty thousand dollars to have this pretty cool clip go out is easily worth the price yeah absolutely like for pr value for anthony edwards he was like i have 200 million dollars and my dick is bigger than yours there's nothing that you can say to that yeah i mean he's i i don't know they don't show the fan it'd be funny if the fan sued for slander or libel yeah he's like actually look look at my hog yeah let's hog reveal plot twist that fan jimmy tetro yeah Massive dog.

Speaker 1 Hog reveal.

Speaker 4 My cool throne is Jerry Jones.

Speaker 4 Because Jerry Jones, people say that he's got a cold, almost dead heart. He actually said that he cried a couple months ago.

Speaker 1 Oh, when Luca got traded? Yes.

Speaker 3 They asked him about the Luca trade.

Speaker 4 He said, yeah, I cried when they traded Luca, which is, it's remarkable because they removed his tear ducts at least three surgeries ago.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 4 But yeah, I hope that this is just a never-ending series of asking anyone who has lived in Dallas with any small semblance of fame what their reaction was from the Luka trade.

Speaker 4 And I hope it keeps going on for the next like three years just so that Nico feels like a bigger piece of shit.

Speaker 1 It's the new JFK assassination.

Speaker 1 Where were you? Yeah.

Speaker 1 What were you feeling?

Speaker 5 Someone's going to ask Scotty Scheffler.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Has to. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So that goes perfectly with my hot seat is Nico Harrison because he did a press conference finally.

Speaker 1 And one, I don't know if you guys saw, but he, as he left the press conference, the door was locked that he was trying to go out of, which was very funny. I love that.
Just a total cell phone.

Speaker 1 And then, yeah, look at this. Watch this.
He's just like, you know, he's like, well, that was the, it can't get worse than that. That sucked.
Well,

Speaker 4 at least I'm not in this room anymore.

Speaker 1 And he walks right up to the thing. He's like, oh, shit.
It's locked.

Speaker 1 And then he also said,

Speaker 1 he said he's never spoken ill of Luca at all. That's just a lie.
That's not true. That has to be a lie.
And then he also said that he didn't understand

Speaker 4 how much the fans liked Luca. I don't know how that's possible.
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 Charles Barkley did go on.

Speaker 4 He said he knew that they liked him, but he didn't know how much.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And now there's reports that the owner is pissed, being like, how did you not know how much they liked Luca? Like, I was supposed to tell you that. It's a whole...

Speaker 1 It's the best.

Speaker 1 It's obviously the worst for Madis fans. It's the best, though, that Nico Harrison is just not getting off the hook.
Like, it's every fucking day.

Speaker 1 This trade happened two and a half months ago, and every day there's a new story on how stupid he is. And like I said, I said it on Sunday.

Speaker 1 I will make sure for the entirety of the playoffs, at least once a week on this show, I will just say, fuck Nico Harrison. He's a moron, and I'll keep doing that.

Speaker 1 But yeah, he's, I guess he's done with press conferences now. I hope not.
Our goal is to never run away from the media.

Speaker 1 He literally did an entire press conference where he didn't let anyone record anything.

Speaker 1 I mean, all of his

Speaker 1 quotes are just so bad and so stupid. Yeah, what did it say? Two and a half quarters.
One, Charles Barkley's like, you're my friend. I love you.
Just shut the fuck up and take the L. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, it's over. It's good advice.
Yeah, he said, I consider you a friend of mine. Don't do any more press conferences.
I don't even know what you're doing. I really don't.
The war is over, brother.

Speaker 1 You're taking the L.

Speaker 4 Smart advice. Did you see it inside the NBA last night when Shaq shit himself?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 4 Oh, you didn't see that? No. So it was after the

Speaker 4 Clippers game, and they're doing their wrap-up. And Shaq...

Speaker 1 Gee, I was watching Puck.

Speaker 4 In the middle of the conversation, he just gets up and trots off the stage. Yeah, watch this.
Watch the run he does away from the stage.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 That's Neurovirus.

Speaker 4 Yeah, so he just leaves for like six minutes, comes back, and then he comes back and he goes,

Speaker 4 It was number one, Ernie.

Speaker 1 That was not number one.

Speaker 4 That was number two, Shaq. We know know it.
And he's apparently been doing this olive oil thing, the olive oil cleanse, which that's a good punch. That's not to get to somebody.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. And then my cool throne is Kirk Cousins because there was a headline that caught my eye on ESPN today.

Speaker 1 And let me read the exact headline because I want you guys to also have it.

Speaker 1 Sources Cousins' surprises at Falcons workout.

Speaker 4 In that he showed up? Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay. Because I clicked on it and I was like, oh, shit, Kirk Cousins looking good.
And it was like, the whole story was just, no one expected him to show up.

Speaker 4 His presence was a nice surprise. I mean, Kirk Cousins, if nothing, the man is professional.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 He surprises at opening

Speaker 1 Falcons voluntary workouts.

Speaker 4 He will attend voluntary team activities. He's probably good at texting back.
Yeah. Probably responds to most emails.

Speaker 1 Yeah. He's a pros pro.
He's a pros pro.

Speaker 1 Okay. Let's get to our interviews.
We got Todd McShea, which great intel. A little different than Daniel Jeremiah, where we talked a little more

Speaker 1 like nitty-gritty of the guys with Daniel Jeremiah.

Speaker 1 Tom McShay gave us a lot of insight on what he expects to happen on Thursday night, trade-ups, what teams are thinking, what the Giants are thinking. And then we have Packers head coach Matt LaFleur.

Speaker 1 And then we will finish with FAQs.

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Speaker 1 Okay, we now welcome on our very, very, very good friend is very special guest.

Speaker 1 It is Todd McShay. It's draft week.
He's at the ringer now. You can go listen to his show, to Todd McShea's show at The Ringer.
He's also got a newsletter that's great.

Speaker 1 So go check it out.

Speaker 3 Todd, great to see you.

Speaker 1 Look great. You're in the Hollywood studios in L.A.

Speaker 1 Out here in L.A. Yeah.
So, all right, so it's draft week.

Speaker 1 Before we talk about the actual draft, will you be going, will you have Rossillo in your beautiful studio this week, or is he making you go to his house?

Speaker 3 No, no. So, here's how it went.
He's not allowed in the studio. We don't need the disruption, right? And the confusion.

Speaker 3 I texted him actually a while back, and I was like, I'm trying to call you.

Speaker 3 Pick up your phone. And I gave him the, you know, like the town where it's like,

Speaker 3 we're going to go do something. I can't tell you what we're doing.
We're going to hurt some people. And I said on the text, I was like, I just need you to say whose car are we taking.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so we called back, and I explained

Speaker 3 my concept, which was, I just want to take over your house and make day three Saturday inside the Rosillo House.

Speaker 1 Yes, we have.

Speaker 1 We have. We've been to his new house.

Speaker 4 He's got a great square.

Speaker 1 We've been to all his houses.

Speaker 3 Yeah, he's on his ninth Manhattan Beach house. And it's like this great man cave overlooking the Pacific Ocean, TV's everywhere.

Speaker 3 So we're going to go and we're going to eat his food, drink his drinks, and invade his house on Saturday for two hours, 3 p.m. Eastern to 5 p.m.
Eastern.

Speaker 3 We're going to be there recapping the whole draft as the draft's going up.

Speaker 1 Wait, so he only gave you two hours? You're not even going to get to watch the whole draft with him?

Speaker 3 His only caveat was, you know, it was NBA playoffs.

Speaker 1 Exactly, yeah. He's got his own battle speed stick.

Speaker 3 So I'm going to try to get him to run a 40.

Speaker 3 Bill Simmons and I are setting the over-under. Bill had it at six flat.
I said like 5-2.

Speaker 3 So I'm going to try to get him to run a 40. He reminded me that he has a squat rack in the house.
So we can do the 225 bench press rack.

Speaker 1 The squat rack that almost killed him. Building it.
He got caught behind it. No, he's under six.
That's crazy. That's disrespectful.
I think what behind him.

Speaker 4 He's built for power. He's like a linebacker.

Speaker 3 I could see him. It's definitely going to be a hamstring issue, right? Him pulling up after 33 yards.

Speaker 4 Yeah, once he realizes in his head where the clock is at, he's like, oh, yeah, I might as well just pretend I've got an injury.

Speaker 3 Daniel Jeremiah said we should run it in the sand for a built-in excuse.

Speaker 1 He's got five. I'm going to say 5-3.
He's got 5-3 speed. All right.

Speaker 1 so this draft we actually had dj on on monday talking about the draft he was like hey it's not the best draft uh there's a lot of there's six five or six blue chippers and a lot of starters how many of how many blue chippers do you have and is it a fair assessment to say this draft maybe is lacking a little bit of the uh sizzle we've had in the last couple of years here's how i look at it there they're and i kind of do tiers off of grades but let's break away from that for a second there's two guys that are at the top and that's Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter.

Speaker 3 Like, they're in their own tier, if you will. Then, after that, there's a handful of guys.
But what's interesting is a lot of them are not in premium positions. Ashton Genty, running back,

Speaker 3 two tight ends in Tyler Warren and Colston Loveland.

Speaker 3 And then you look at the rest of the list. Yes, there is.
I think there's two edges that belong.

Speaker 3 Actually, three, I would probably throw in there

Speaker 3 with

Speaker 3 Jalen Walker, his teammate Michael Williams, and Shamar Stewart. But then also in that mix, I would throw in

Speaker 3 Jihad Campbell from Alabama and Mason Graham, interior defensive lineman. So that's kind of the range, and Cam Ward would be up there as well in that second tier, if you will.

Speaker 3 What's interesting, man, is like we're now like hours away from the draft, right?

Speaker 3 And there's talk because of certain teams having specific needs, and this happens every year, but not normally this high.

Speaker 3 Like we get to four, New England's probably going to take Will Campbell. Will Campbell's the fourth or fifth best offensive lineman in last year's draft.
Right.

Speaker 3 The information I'm getting as we get closer, it could be Ashton Genty four for Jacksonville. It's not going to be Mason Graham, the defensive tackle for Michigan.

Speaker 3 But the player that I keep hearing over and over again from people in the league and around the league is Teteroa McMillan, the wide receiver.

Speaker 3 So if that's the, and the theory behind it is Trevor Lawrence, go back to 2018, 2019 at Clemson, two six foot four wide receivers, 4,000 receiving yards, 42 touchdowns to Justin Ross and T.

Speaker 3 Higgins, those guys. And he's had smaller receivers at Jacksonville, and he's been missing the target by a little bit.
Let's get him a big catch radius guy like Tet McMillan at 6'4 ⁇ .

Speaker 3 And so if that's the case, And now Campbell goes four, Tet goes five, I'm told that Las Vegas is going to take Ashton Genty at six. And so that could be an offensive tackle, Armand Membo.

Speaker 3 Now you get to seven and all these guys, you ready? Mason Graham, still available. Tyler Warren and Colston Loveland, still available.

Speaker 3 Jalen Walker, Shamar Stewart, Michael Williams, all still available. It's going to be, and Ashton Genty.

Speaker 1 How about the every, hey, I said they're like, hey, Bears fans, wake up. Yeah.

Speaker 3 There's a scenario playing out right now as I'm talking to people in the league, day in and day out, where the Bears come on the board at 10.

Speaker 3 I don't want to get everyone all worked up, but Ashton Genty, Tyler Warren, and Colston Loveland are still available for them there.

Speaker 1 And is it Ashton Genty in that spot? I mean, it feels like it.

Speaker 3 I would think so.

Speaker 1 Wait, so you said something interesting there. The Raiders are not going to take Ashton Genty because I thought they were leaning that way.
So that's what you're hearing. It's opposite.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 3 I think every mock draft in the world for about a month straight had two of the same players of the same teams. It was Mason Graham, Michigan defensive tackle going to Jacksonville at five.

Speaker 3 And one pick later was Ashton Genty running back going to the Las Vegas Raiders at six. And I don't think either is happening.
Wow.

Speaker 4 So how would you compare Ashton Genty with running backs in the first round from the last couple of years, like B. John Robinson or Gibbs? Is he in that same class?

Speaker 1 Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 3 I actually think he's a better pure runner in terms of like contact balance, churning out yards after contact than Bijan Robinson.

Speaker 3 There's been six running backs go in the top 10 in the last 10 years of the draft.

Speaker 3 And Saquon's obviously one of them. Leonard Fournette and Christian McCaffrey were in 2017, go all the way back to, I think it was 2015 with Todd Gurley.
So it's not unprecedented.

Speaker 3 for a running back to go in the top 10. He's certainly worth it in terms of the grade that he carries.

Speaker 3 But to me, Ashton Gentee, like,

Speaker 3 I haven't talked to any teams that view him not as one of the top six, seven players in this draft. And the fact that he could wind up falling to 10 to the Bears would,

Speaker 3 obviously, it's positional value,

Speaker 3 but absolutely worth the pick. And would, I just, like, part of me fell in love with the concept of Warren or Colston with Cole Komet

Speaker 3 and cooking it up in the lab with Ben Johnson and 12 personnel.

Speaker 3 But then you throw Ashton Genty in the mix and taking the pressure off the quarterback position.

Speaker 3 If that's the scenario, they can't go wrong with the pick, and certainly they'd be thrilled to have him. Because

Speaker 3 there was a scenario with Jacksonville,

Speaker 3 or sorry, with the Raiders taking Genty at six and the Jets potentially taking Tyler Warren at seven, where Colson Loveland was the best available at those positions at 10 for the Bears.

Speaker 3 And I don't know that that's going to be the case anymore.

Speaker 1 What if it's somehow Mason Grimm, Ashton Genty at 10?

Speaker 1 Which would be tough to have that happen, but is there a chance that Mason Graham falls to 10? Because I love Mason Graham.

Speaker 3 There's a chance.

Speaker 3 I look at the Jets as a possibility

Speaker 3 at pick seven for Mason Graham.

Speaker 3 I wouldn't rule out Carolina at eight,

Speaker 3 but I don't know. I think if he gets past...

Speaker 3 If he gets past five and gets past

Speaker 3 the Raiders at six, yeah, I think he could be on the board.

Speaker 1 Okay. I truly do.
That would be exciting.

Speaker 4 I saw a report earlier today that the Giants and the Browns are taking calls, taking calls on their draft pick.

Speaker 3 I just got a text from an assistant GM in the league, and he's like, please try to ask around. And I just sent out some feelers, and I'm jumping on with you guys, and I'll make some more calls after.

Speaker 3 Apparently, there have been calls, and that's not surprising.

Speaker 3 But apparently, someone's trying, there's a team out there that,

Speaker 3 according to word, and people are trying to figure out how true it is and how valid it is. But at this moment,

Speaker 3 there's apparently a team out there that's putting a big offer to the Cleveland Browns to try to move up to number two to get Travis Hunter.

Speaker 4 Can we guess what team it is? Does it rhyme with the Bos Angeles Lodgers?

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 3 That's why I was sending out texts before I jumped on with you. There's some speculation.

Speaker 3 maybe the Dallas Cowboys.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah, because Jerry did say

Speaker 4 he's looking at doing something either before or after the draft.

Speaker 1 But it could happen. Well, not in the middle of the draft.
No, no, not in the middle of the draft.

Speaker 4 He said,

Speaker 4 we're looking at two things, and these two things could happen either before or after the draft. So it could be anything.

Speaker 4 It could be the Cowboys.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and he said for a player, I saw that quote. So

Speaker 3 that player could be Travis Hunter before the draft. So I mean, it would fall in line, but there's definitely a wide open.
I mean, yeah, no shit, Jerry.

Speaker 3 Everyone's going to do something before and after the draft and try to get somebody.

Speaker 4 Ideally, as long as you're still alive, then you can do something. So Jerry Jones confirms he will live through the weekend.

Speaker 4 When I saw that report that the Giants and the Browns are taking calls, I just immediately thought they put that report out there so that they will start to take calls.

Speaker 4 They're letting people know, like, please continue to contact us because we're listening.

Speaker 3 I get it with the Giants, but you've known for over a month now that Cam Ward's going number one.

Speaker 3 So if you're Cleveland and you've made the decision it's not quarterback, and I know I know that to be true at two,

Speaker 3 and then you're

Speaker 3 and you've got your choice between Abdul.

Speaker 3 I literally started this whole conversation with you guys talking about this year's class.

Speaker 1 And I said, there's two players that are in a group of their own.

Speaker 3 So at this point, you know, you're basically on the clock and you know what the board looks like.

Speaker 3 So why I get the Giants trying because we can get to the Giants in a second, but there's some dissension in the Giants' ranks.

Speaker 3 And so maybe trading out of that spot, if you're trying to appease the head coach and Brian Dayll and maybe get a quarterback, you'd like to move back, get a quarterback, have an additional pick to try to plug some other holes.

Speaker 3 If that's truly the case. And again, we can get to the Giants in a second, but

Speaker 3 if you're Cleveland,

Speaker 3 you either know you want Travis Hunter, you've decided that, or you're looking at this and weeks ago, you would have been talking to other teams about potentially moving up to the number two spot.

Speaker 3 It doesn't make sense that they would be putting out the feelers. It would make sense if the Giants were kind of reaching out.
Hey, any interest here?

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.
Right. So, so, speaking of the Giants, you know, front offices better than anyone.
You'd have a bunch of sources. You'd talk to a bunch of guys.

Speaker 1 The Giants feel like they're in that specific spot where it's a coach that's on the hot seat that is most likely going to get fired unless they have a crazy turnaround.

Speaker 1 Same with the GM. The owner's probably getting impatient because they've had some really bad seasons and it's like not Giants football.

Speaker 1 And will they take a reach and take a Shador Sanders knowing that buys them maybe an extra year?

Speaker 1 Like when you see that happen, it happens every single year in the NFL. Is there ever a front office that's like, hey, we're not doing this.
Like we're not going to do this. This is stupid.

Speaker 1 Why are we letting ourselves just do something so quickly just for self-preservation here?

Speaker 3 Let me give you a couple pieces of insight here.

Speaker 3 First of all, I was actually mildly surprised to hear as of Sunday,

Speaker 3 my information is that John Mara, the Mara family, they have not gotten involved. And I don't mean they're not involved in the process.

Speaker 3 I mean they're not saying we need to do this or we really would like to take Shador at three or really would like to take

Speaker 3 they're they're letting the people they hired work out the uh decision. Second part is everyone got all worked up.

Speaker 3 Uh, they're grabbing the Meraplane and they're flying to Boulder on Thursday of last week. Uh, Tuscaloosa on Friday for Jalen Milro, Tyler Shuck in Louisville on Saturday.

Speaker 3 What are you know, is it going to be shit?

Speaker 3 No one wanted to talk about the Milro and Shuck part, or the fact that they worked out

Speaker 3 dark the week before. The face of this draft is Shador Sanders.
So, everyone, media-wise, was on, well, you know, it's still in play at three.

Speaker 3 What I can tell you is this, according to my sources, and honestly, I've been saying it for two weeks on the show.

Speaker 3 If you hire Brian Dable,

Speaker 3 you did so because he is one of the handful, not dozens, handful of human beings on this planet in the NFL that actually know how to develop quarterbacks and actually can get the best out of them and actually have a brilliant offensive mind.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 And I don't care care if this quarterback outlasts Brian in his tenure. I don't care what the wins and losses are.
Brian can flat out friggin' coach, man.

Speaker 3 I'm telling you, this guy is at a very high level in the NFL in terms of offensive coaching.

Speaker 1 I believe that.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 you've got this man who's one of just a handful in the league in your building. He's the smartest man in the room.
And

Speaker 3 for some reason, there's some people in the scouting department that don't, that prefer Shador. But the guy who's going to coach coach him that's great at doing that is not a Shador guy, apparently.

Speaker 3 And I say that because I've heard that from sources. And I also have said that even before I had sources on it, because I know Brian, I know his style.
I know his history. We know Josh Allen.

Speaker 3 We know Jalen Hurts, I think, in Alabama.

Speaker 3 He's Jackson Dart fits the mold for him. Sturdy, mobile, bigger arm than Shador's.
Doesn't have to have a rifle, but like he just fits the mold.

Speaker 3 And so whether it's Shador or Tyler Shuck or maybe a developmental project in, you know, day two with Jalen Milro, that fits a lot more than Shador, especially in that climate and in that division. So

Speaker 3 I'm hearing now that he wants to take a quarterback at three or maybe move down from that spot and take a quarterback. He'd like to make sure they get their guy.

Speaker 3 But I also have heard,

Speaker 3 and it lines up with my football senses, that it's not Shador. Okay.
So maybe

Speaker 3 I'm hopeful that this organization is smart enough to say, well, Brian's the guy we've got to lean on with the quarterbacks. We'll handle all the rest of this.

Speaker 3 And it'll be fascinating to see. Maybe that's part of the reason why there's talk of calls to number three.

Speaker 3 Maybe move back down, take Jackson Dart a little bit later, get an additional pick or two, however that works out.

Speaker 3 But that's kind of the backdrop on everything that's going on in that Giants organization. And I'm just hopeful they, I mean, he had to live through Daniel Jones.

Speaker 1 He got the best.

Speaker 3 When Daniel Jones actually could stay healthy for a minute, he got the best out of Daniel Jones.

Speaker 3 Imagine he gets to handpick his guy and develop him and not have to rush him out there year one with Russell Wilson there and with Jameis Winston there.

Speaker 3 That's the direction I would go. And if I was the Mara family and I had to get involved at all, I'd be like, you let him make the quarterback decision.
You guys make the rest of them.

Speaker 4 So let's say hypothetically, they stay at their pick, they make their pick, and they don't take a quarterback.

Speaker 4 They might want to move back up maybe late on in the first round

Speaker 4 to draft that quarterback with a second first-round pick.

Speaker 4 Do any owners, and I guess with the Mars specifically, would they say, hey, no, we don't want to trade all this away to move up so that you can take a quarterback because you're kind of mortgaging the future and drafting a quarterback kind of feels like it could be an effort to save your job, like Big Cat was saying.

Speaker 4 Getting with the quarterback in. Are there any owners that will say, that will shut that down and say, no, I don't think this is a good idea?

Speaker 3 Yeah, but then you're basically saying, like, this is your last year as my head coach.

Speaker 1 Right, you might as well fire him.

Speaker 3 Yeah, or this is your last year as my GM, Joe Shane. So

Speaker 3 I don't know the inner workings exactly how that would go.

Speaker 3 I've heard unbelievably wild stories of ownership and last-minute making decisions that didn't align with what the personnel department and what the coaching staff wanted.

Speaker 1 Dan Setter and Jake Rudin.

Speaker 3 But again, I do want to emphasize, because there's been a lot of speculation that as of Sunday,

Speaker 3 the Mars are

Speaker 3 letting the football people handle the football stuff so far.

Speaker 3 I would like to think that if they do go Abdul Carter at three, that they would be wise in where they tried to move up. And if Dart's the guy

Speaker 3 that Brian Dable wants, then you go up and get Dart. You secure him at 25, let's say with the Vikings, who only have four picks in the entire draft, the fewest of any team in the league.
So

Speaker 3 that's kind of how I look at this. The other part is, and we haven't even gotten to this,

Speaker 3 where's Shador going?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And why, and

Speaker 3 why, why, and if Shador, because 21's sitting there and everyone thinks, because the same principles apply with Kellen Moore and New Orleans at nine.

Speaker 3 I don't think it's going to be quarterback at nine.

Speaker 3 I am fairly certain Kellen Moore does not want Shador, that he would be a Jackson Dart guy as well, or maybe a Tyler Shuck, based off of like his last three jobs were as OCs were with Dak Prescott, Justin Herbert, and Jalen Hurts.

Speaker 3 Like those are, those are dart types of players or Tyler Shuck types of players. Shador doesn't have a lot of love right now, man.

Speaker 3 And listen, Baker Mayfield was like, what, plus 2,000 to be the number one overall pick the night before?

Speaker 3 Michael Pennix, none of us knew. that Michael Penix was going to be the pick for Atlanta a year ago.
So we've seen this over and over again.

Speaker 3 There's a team lurking, I'm sure, that has more interest in Shador in round one than we know of right now.

Speaker 3 But I'm also told, and this is the fascinating part, Mike Tomlin does like Shador, and there's love for Shador in that building, but it's a softer floor because everyone said, well, that's the floor for Shador 21.

Speaker 3 It's a softer floor than people want to admit to right now, or maybe people understand right now.

Speaker 3 And so if it's not 21, or if Pittsburgh's trying to trade back out of that spot of 21 because they don't have a second round pick after the DK trade, Where's Shador going?

Speaker 3 And so, is it going to be a situation where it's like, hold,

Speaker 3 hold, you know, like Cleveland at 33, Giants at 34, New Orleans at 40. We've got

Speaker 3 private planes have been crossing over each other in the air the last couple of weeks. Workouts with Dart and Chuck and Milro and Shador.
So maybe everyone just holds off and waits.

Speaker 3 And maybe we only have one quarterback drafted in the first round.

Speaker 3 In fact, like talking to people who are really in the know, even more than I am in the know, there's a growing sense that it's more likely that one quarterback gets drafted in the first round than three.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 So, all right. So, what do you, though, think about Shador as a prospect? Because

Speaker 1 this is now going to, you're going to go head-to-head with your childhood friend and our boss, Dave Portnoy, who said that he is putting his foot on, like, stamping his, getting on the soapbox, line in the sand.

Speaker 1 Shador Sanders is going to be a great pro,

Speaker 1 Pro Bowl-type player. Where you land on Shador Sanders as a player?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, Portne and I have been fighting since we're nine years old.

Speaker 4 He's a very accomplished scout.

Speaker 1 Get out of here. Well, he also,

Speaker 1 then our own company found, I think it was Mac Jones, Daniel Jones, and then there was one other.

Speaker 1 Maybe it was Johnny Manzel, where he's like, I'll put my reputation on these guys. Right.

Speaker 3 He's like, you know, he's like the cat with the lives, right? He just gets to keep drawing lines in the sand, and then it gets

Speaker 1 what happens to the line in the sand. It gets swept away.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 So So

Speaker 1 I like Shador.

Speaker 3 I'm not lying in the sand. Like I like Shador, but I'm all like, can we have some intelligence with the conversation? The intelligence is like, I don't want him in a system that doesn't fit him.

Speaker 3 It's like so much of this is about where they land. And I know no one wants to talk about it because it's not sexy and fun pre-draft.

Speaker 3 But if you told me that he went to Cleveland, even in that weather and playing in that division, if you told me he went to Cleveland and had a year to, and he doesn't even need it as much as some of the other guys do, but if he had a little time, wasn't forced in right away, and had Kevin Stefansky, like I told you, Kellen Moore is dart, shuck.

Speaker 3 Brian Daybold's dart, shuck.

Speaker 3 Kevin Stefansky has won games with guys

Speaker 3 aren't the biggest, aren't the most mobile, don't have the biggest arm, but process and like lightning fast and are accurate throwing the ball and get the ball out quickly in that West Coast system and lead receivers to yards after catch.

Speaker 3 That's what Shador is. So Stefansky would be perfect for him.
I mean, he won 11 games with Kirk Cousins.

Speaker 3 Was it McNow?

Speaker 3 Who was it? The quarterback before he won 10 or 11 games. So he's

Speaker 3 won games, a lot of games with guys that don't have that great mobility, size, arm strength. I think he'd be perfect with Shador,

Speaker 3 but

Speaker 3 I haven't heard anything on Cleveland.

Speaker 3 And in fact, I was told, do not expect Cleveland to trade up.

Speaker 3 If someone falls in their lap, yeah, but don't expect them to trade up, which would be interesting, too, because if you do stick in picket two and you get his teammate Travis Hunter and everyone's sitting there were at pick 24 or 25, where's Cleveland?

Speaker 3 So that'll be fascinating to watch, too.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I could see the Steelers on the clock at 21.

Speaker 4 The camera is live on them in the war room, and Mike Tomlin picks up the phone, but it's a call from Aaron Rodgers, who's drafting himself onto the Steelers, just letting them know, hey, I've made my decision.

Speaker 4 I'm ready to say I'm going to play.

Speaker 3 I thought for a while it was going to be Aaron announcing that he was going to Pittsburgh at that big night out or whatever it was for McAfee, right?

Speaker 1 I knew too.

Speaker 3 That didn't happen. And then we had the McAfee interview.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And my guy Mensch

Speaker 3 was saying all along, like, you know, it's going to be in Green Bay. Like, he did it.
I was in Cleveland. I'll never forget.
We're getting ready for the draft.

Speaker 3 We get all these hits for Sports Center and NFL Live getting ready and previewing it. And what are we hearing? And where are the guys going to go? And all of a sudden, it's like, everyone step down.

Speaker 3 You know, Schefter, come on up. And it was Aaron Rodgers for like an hour and a half leading up to the draft.
Yeah. Yeah.
So that wouldn't have shocked me, but I kind of think it's

Speaker 3 we're going to go through like a little dead period.

Speaker 1 And I think. I think that he'll be true to what he was saying.
And he needs a little time, but we'll have to see.

Speaker 4 So one guy we haven't talked a lot about because he's a presumptive number one overall pick, Cam Ward, to the Titans. He's been just glazing his teammates on on the Titans on live streams.

Speaker 4 I don't know if you've seen that, but uh, good teammate. I would say good teammate on his part.
But can you just tell us what you project him as as an NFL quarterback?

Speaker 4 Because it's just been, yeah, he's going to go number one overall, and then we move on to try to figure out what every other team's going to do.

Speaker 4 But in terms of him as a player for the Titans, how would you have him graded in some of the, you know, the last handfuls of drafts?

Speaker 3 I think the conversation would have started at QB4 last year with Cam Ward. I think with the other guy with Shador and Dart, it would have started probably at QB,

Speaker 3 if I'm being honest, QB6, but for most people, QB7. I didn't have Bo Nicks as high as some other.
I had a second-round grade on Bo Nicks, so I was wrong on that so far.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 Cam,

Speaker 3 when you watch the tape and you study the cut-ups of him in rhythm on time,

Speaker 3 when he gets to the top of his drop,

Speaker 3 foot in there, receivers where he's supposed to be and drives it, he's an absolute sniper. And I think that's what Brian Callahan is looking at.
And, like, I'm going to channel that guy.

Speaker 3 Just like when Andy Reid and Brett Veach, the GM for the Chiefs, watched Patrick Mahomes and he's drifting and kind of just throwing from every arm angle.

Speaker 3 And it was an absolute mess at Texas Tech, but a beautiful mess, but still a mess, you know.

Speaker 3 They saw when you go in and you isolate those clips when he's actually in rhythm and running within the constructs of the offense.

Speaker 1 It was brilliant.

Speaker 3 And it's the same thing with Cam. And I think Brian Callahan, the coach, is absolutely qualified to help in his development.
He started his career with Peyton Manning in Denver.

Speaker 3 Matthew Stafford, he spent a lot of time with, right?

Speaker 3 He obviously Joe Burrow brought them to the Super Bowl. So he's been around greatness.

Speaker 3 I mean, like the highest level greatness at the quarterback position and has helped in the process along the way, learned and helped.

Speaker 1 So I like that fit.

Speaker 3 And I think

Speaker 3 Cam needs channeling. Patrick Mahomes needed channeling, but they both share a similar trait.
And I'm not doing the Mahomes and Cam Ward thing here. I'm not.
I'm just saying

Speaker 3 one of the special traits for Cam is that, like, he feels the pressure, knows it's coming, but he's going to let you take another step or two towards him because then

Speaker 3 you're leveraged out. Like, it's like the old

Speaker 1 out the way.

Speaker 3 Instead of some of these other guys, you watch the panic, the drifting, the racing out of the pocket, and things get scrambled. He's unbelievably calm and

Speaker 3 he is thinking a step ahead. And I think if you've channeled what he does in terms of in the pocket on time and then you

Speaker 3 allow him to still utilize those traits when the initial play breaks down, you could have something pretty special with Cam.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 What are the wild card teams on Thursday night? What are the teams that were like, hey, we don't know what they're going to do? They could trade up.

Speaker 1 It might not be a drastic trade, like going up to two or three, but you've heard they're going to move around or they might love someone that's going to shock people.

Speaker 1 Are there any of those teams out there?

Speaker 3 The Houston Texans, there's some noise that

Speaker 3 they're trying to move up for an offensive lineman, okay?

Speaker 3 Dallas is going to be interesting.

Speaker 3 kind of sensing that something's going on there.

Speaker 3 A lot of people have thought Tet McMillan to Dallas at 12. Now we're here in Jacksonville.

Speaker 3 I don't know if

Speaker 3 that would force their hand and they like him that much. I've got him ranked 50th on my board.

Speaker 3 I see the talent. There's a lot of other stuff I don't trust with Tet McMillan.
So we'll see about that.

Speaker 3 Philadelphia, Howie Roseman can't sit still. So whether it's moving up, moving back at 32, but I do think Mason Taylor is an intriguing prospect for them with Dallas Goddard and the situation there.

Speaker 3 And the Rams. The Rams.
Could that be a quarterback team where

Speaker 3 they just all of a sudden out of nowhere decide, yeah, we're going to take Jackson Dart if he's there.

Speaker 3 So obviously with Stafford and his situation, I don't plan on that, but it's just something to keep an eye on.

Speaker 4 Okay. Are there any guys from smaller schools that you're keeping your eye on?

Speaker 3 Gray's Abel, one of my favorites in this draft, North Dakota State.

Speaker 3 If we had Teron Armstead, Cody Mock, Quinn Miners,

Speaker 3 all these guys guys show up at the senior bowl, have awesome weeks, disprove the small school level, and go on to have really brilliant careers and get drafted in all sorts of different ranges, but go on to have really good careers.

Speaker 3 Gray's Abel moves differently than every interior offensive lineman in this draft. I think he could go as high as 18 to Seattle.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay. What about your QBs? So, how do you have your QBs ranked?

Speaker 1 And then maybe give us the QB that you love that's ranked in the, let's say, four to eight range or five to eight range where you're like, hey, this is a project, but this is someone that I could see, you know, a team taking a shot at third, fourth round, where it's like, this could be a guy sometime soon.

Speaker 3 So I've got Cam Ward one, Jackson Dart, two, Shador Sanders, three,

Speaker 3 Tyler Shuck, four, Jalen Milro, five. Okay.
And Will Howard, six.

Speaker 3 Tyler Shuck's one of my favorites, man, and I got to spend a little bit of time with him at the combine.

Speaker 3 He's 25, going to be 26 during the season, I believe.

Speaker 3 He had three season-ending injuries, all bone breaks.

Speaker 3 Injury-prone, you could call them, or fluke injuries.

Speaker 3 When he first started out

Speaker 3 at Oregon, he's been in three different schools, seven years in college.

Speaker 3 He was in the recruiting class with Trevor Lawrence. He was the backup to Justin Herbert at Oregon his freshman year.
He's been around that long.

Speaker 3 Those guys are like going, you know, second contracts and all that.

Speaker 3 He's matured a lot. And

Speaker 3 no one wants to hear the, you know, the touchy-feely fun stuff with quarterbacks.

Speaker 3 But like, you got to know who you are as a human being if you're going to take over an organization, be handed the keys at some point in a year or two.

Speaker 3 And look in that huddle, if you do huddle and grown-ass men, they're looking back at you and like, got no time for some pup.

Speaker 3 He's like, had football, like, he was carted off the field, thought he would never play again. He's just been through a lot.

Speaker 3 And I look at him and I'm like,

Speaker 3 the biggest negative I have in talking to teams, this is the problem. Seven years, but only, and this age, but only one year of starting experience, one full year, right, at Louisville this past year.

Speaker 3 But he's with the Braum brothers who know how to

Speaker 3 coach quarterbacks. He's developed unbelievably well in the past year, year plus.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 3 he can step in, and I think he's going to shock people when he plays. He's bigger than the rest of these quarterbacks.

Speaker 3 He's got a stronger arm than probably the rest of these quarterbacks, maybe the same level as Cam Ward.

Speaker 3 He's faster on a straight line than all these guys outside of Jalen Milro, the top four guys for me. He's the fastest of all of them when he tucks and runs.
The traits are there.

Speaker 3 The experience is there. The maturity is there.
I would love to see him, whether it's the Giants with Brian Dable,

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 3 New Orleans Saints picking at 40.

Speaker 3 One of those teams is not going to wind up with Shador. It's not going to wind up with Jackson Dart.

Speaker 3 And I would love to see him with one of those two spots with an opportunity in a year to take over the reins and see what he can do. I think he's going to be a big surprise of this class.

Speaker 4 Interesting. What about the wide receivers? How do you have them ranked?

Speaker 3 I'm way different than a lot of people. I like that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's good.

Speaker 3 Way different. I've got number one receivers Matthew Golden, route-running Christmas, Christmas.

Speaker 3 4-2-9, 40-yard dash, second-fastest player at the combine. And the questions about him him were like, is the top end speed great?

Speaker 3 He's not great after the catch in terms of making guys miss, but if he catches a crease, he's gone. Vertical speed, adjust to the ball.

Speaker 3 I like golden one.

Speaker 3 Then the big surprise probably for most people would be Jalen Noel from Iowa State. I've got him at number two

Speaker 3 at the wide receiver position. He is so explosive.

Speaker 3 Yeah, he's undersized. Yeah, he's probably going to be a slot like that.

Speaker 1 Fine.

Speaker 3 But look at Lad McConkey last year and what he came in. he's probably going to have to be a slot.
I don't know. And McConkey was one of the best rookie receivers in the class.

Speaker 3 It was like legendary for rookie production and wide receiver. So I think Noel is going to be probably a second-round pick.
He's not getting to the third, but not going to be in the first.

Speaker 3 So a second-round pick. And I think he's going to way outplay his draft slot.
After that, I've got a Mecca Abuka from Ohio State, another probably slot receiver, but consistent, a lot of production.

Speaker 3 And then I like the other Iowa State 2 guy, uh too the um the jaden higgins big 6'3 plus physical receiver great getting off the press those are my top four and and tet mcmillan is is down there and at number 50 overall as i said and then burden because that's like tet yeah luther burden i actually have before tet and luther burden comes with a handful of stuff and red flags and all that but but he is he's not debo everyone wants to say he's debo but i i get the comp in that he's physical explosive after the catch versatile You can do a lot of different things with him.

Speaker 3 Never going to be your best route runner, but if you can get him the football, he's going to make a lot of plays.

Speaker 4 I don't know if you watch the same film I watched, but as a scout, Tet had this one catch.

Speaker 4 He wasn't wearing pads, no big deal, but he jumped up in the air, caught it, and then put the ball between his legs before he landed. Did you see that? And if you haven't, I did.

Speaker 4 Did that change your mind at all?

Speaker 3 Clearly not.

Speaker 3 Because I just turned in my final top 300. He'll post tonight the McShay report.
Google it. Subscribe, people.

Speaker 1 Come on. Look at that.

Speaker 4 Club McShay Shea.

Speaker 4 Maybe not.

Speaker 1 Maybe not right now. Yeah, not right now.
No, no, that's right. That should be laugh.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Give us another

Speaker 1 guy who may be in the second or third round, any position that you love and you're like, when you hear this name, because that's what we love about the drafts.

Speaker 1 It's like, we're all going to sell ourselves on whatever ends up happening.

Speaker 1 Be like, this is a guy. But if you hear it first from McShea, It's just confirmation bias.
Whoever's listening and rooting for that team, they're like, yeah, McShay said that. JT

Speaker 3 Tuimolalau. I've had to practice that name.
Tuimolalau from Ohio State. I just like him.

Speaker 3 I think I had prospect fatigue over time.

Speaker 3 The first report I wrote on him was in the summer of 2022. We're now going in the summer of 2025.
So it was the same guy over and over again, but this year he took it to another level.

Speaker 3 This year's draft, I agree with Daniel Jeremiah. It's not great at the top.
There's not as many elite players at the top as you'd like to see. But teams are looking for starters.

Speaker 3 And if you're a base 4-3 defense plug-in, like he's going to be seven, nine sacks a year, batted down passes, effort, gap.

Speaker 3 There's nothing like overly sexy about his game, but he's going to be one of those guys who like eight, nine years in, we're like, he's still doing it at a high level.

Speaker 3 I like JTT.

Speaker 3 I think Trayvion Henderson, if put in the right spot, like the Jameer Gibbs spot that he was put in, has got a chance to be special. Don't rule him out as

Speaker 3 a first-round draft pick. In fact, I've talked to teams that have him rated higher than Omarion Hampton.
Oh. And there's a growing sense that he could wind up being RB2 in this class.

Speaker 3 So that's intriguing.

Speaker 3 Elijah Arroyo.

Speaker 3 So much time has been spent on Tyler Warren and Colston Loveland, and rightfully so. And Mason Taylor could sneak in at 32, right?

Speaker 3 There's going to be a team that gets Arroyo out of Miami. And if he can stay healthy, which you could say about every prospect, but he's had struggles with durability.

Speaker 3 He is so explosive. And like his ability to get down the seam, run routes down the field.

Speaker 3 He's like a different level. And the thing, normally these like

Speaker 3 Kelsey types, the F tight end, the flex out tight end, they don't block all that well.

Speaker 1 This guy's got some prick in him, man.

Speaker 3 Like he loves it. He will embarrass you on tape.

Speaker 3 So I just, I think Arroyo is going to wind up really outplaying where he winds up getting drafted, which is probably going to be somewhere in like the 40s or early 50s.

Speaker 3 But I think Arroyo is an absolute player.

Speaker 4 Where do you see the Washington Commanders going this year? Because they're an interesting team.

Speaker 4 On paper, they make the NFC championship game, but then you look at the roster and you think to yourself, they do have a lot of holes.

Speaker 4 They've got a lot of places that they have to get much younger at because we've been doing one-year rentals on a lot of people. So what direction do you see them going?

Speaker 3 I think Edge is a spot that they'd like to be able to go. They're not, I don't think they're stuck drafting there.

Speaker 3 We've got a bunch of guys who are going to come off the board, and I think earlier than people expected now that I'm talking to teams, I think it's going to be Carter at three, Abdul Carter at three.

Speaker 3 I think Jalen Walker is going to go maybe as early as the Jets at six.

Speaker 3 And if not, a couple picks later. I think Michael Williams could go as early as, let's say, eight to

Speaker 3 Carolina. I think Shamar Stewart could go shortly thereafter.
Maybe it's nine to the Saints. I think James Pierce could go like 15 to Atlanta.
Mike Green, maybe 17 to Cincinnati.

Speaker 3 And all of a sudden, you look up, you're like, shit.

Speaker 3 We would pick 18. And we said, what did I just list off? Like seven guys? Yeah.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I don't know that there's going to be like Donovan S. Araku

Speaker 3 from BC is really, really a savvy, proficient edge rusher. I just don't know that he's got that, like he's shorter.
He's not the fastest, most explosive guy.

Speaker 3 I think he's probably going to be early two.

Speaker 3 Why not Trayvion Trayvion Henderson there?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 It would make sense.

Speaker 3 Like I get it, like cornerback, edge, or bigger needs, but if Jade Barron and Will Johnson and Maxwell Harrison are all off the board and all those edges are off the board and you can't trade back,

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 3 Just getting a weapon in the passing game and adding that, you know, with Brian Robinson, what you already have. And I just,

Speaker 3 I think he's got a chance to elevate like Gibbs did, maybe not quite to that level, but to take an offense that's explosive and to do like

Speaker 3 just a little, you know, just a little more nudge where now you got to account for this guy who's a 4-4, catches the ball out of the backfield, will protect too.

Speaker 3 He and his buddy, Quinchot Judkins, their pass protection tape is fun to watch.

Speaker 3 So I could see Henderson

Speaker 3 as someone who's on the short list as a possibility.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, Eckler did a pretty good job with that last year, but he's not getting any younger. And on third down for Jaden, he likes to find the running backs, move the sticks.

Speaker 4 That would make a lot of sense to me. I would personally like to see Malachi Starks.
I love watching that. You can see that.

Speaker 3 Jeremy Chin's gone. Yeah.

Speaker 3 The safeties are. I mean, you talk about polar opposites of the spectrum, right? You've got Nick Eamon Warrior, who's like 6'3, 220,

Speaker 3 broke the broad jump record of the combine by like four inches and had the best over 200 pounds, like the best vertical jump of any player ever.

Speaker 3 Just insane workout.

Speaker 3 And his tape is really good and interesting, but like you talk about the kind of the football character stuff and the focus issues and kind of in and out of things and the aggressiveness in the run support.

Speaker 3 So there's this like balancing act with him. The traits are unbelievable, but what are we, are we sure that this is a first-round talent, a first-round guy that we want to bring in?

Speaker 3 Then you get Starks, who's like,

Speaker 3 Kirby Smart talks about him almost as glowingly as Nick Sabin talked about Will Anderson a couple years ago. Okay.

Speaker 3 Just loves ball, team first,

Speaker 3 prepare, does all the little things, smooth move on tape, is beautiful, moving smooth and

Speaker 3 like aggressive and plays fast and comes up and hits and all the things. And he's a first-round talent on tape.

Speaker 3 But then he worked out and it was like third worst this, second worst this, like among the safeties in the class and didn't run very well.

Speaker 3 And so I think, I do think the safeties, if they come off the board in the first round, will be very late, like that 27 to 32 range.

Speaker 3 But I could see a scenario, too, where neither guy gets drafted by the end of night one. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 Are you a guy that puts any stock into drafting captains? Like you give a little bonus, like a gold star if they're a captain on their college team?

Speaker 3 You get my attention when you're like a three-year captain.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 3 And you get my attention when you've transferred in

Speaker 3 from somewhere and you're immediately like you, you earned a captain.

Speaker 3 You were able to, in that little window of like three, four, five months, become a captain before the week, week one of the season.

Speaker 3 But there's a lot of captains out there.

Speaker 3 But yeah, I'd prefer a captain over a non-captain. Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. I got one last question for you.
Always been awesome having you on, Todd. Go check out the Todd McShay show on Ringer.

Speaker 1 You're going to have to watch Ryan Russill hopefully run a 40-yard dash on Saturday live from his house.

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Speaker 3 I hate when it's the negative stuff, but

Speaker 3 I still go back to like to Brady Quinn.

Speaker 3 and and uh Tim Tebow.

Speaker 3 Brady Quinn, but it wasn't, was it Quinn? No, it was Claussen with Kuiper.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Clausen with Kuiper. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I had a good run on shutting Kuiper down on some quarterbacks.

Speaker 3 Clausson and Quinn. I think he had an agent who represented some of those Notre Dame guys,

Speaker 3 bumped him up. But I mean, I got him to promise to retire, and he's still going.

Speaker 1 That didn't work out. But what was your best? What's your number one where you're like, I had that guy before everyone else?

Speaker 3 Before everyone else.

Speaker 1 Or you were different. Like, say, for example, this year,

Speaker 1 if your wide receiver board turns out to be correct,

Speaker 1 you'll be vindicated because everyone has Tet going as the best and you have him as the fifth.

Speaker 3 I had Malik Neighbors last year, the number one receiver.

Speaker 3 That's good. If that matters anything.

Speaker 1 Yeah, although Brian Thomas was very good.

Speaker 3 Yeah, Brian Thomas was very good. Marvin Harrison Jr.
will be very good.

Speaker 3 I don't know.

Speaker 3 I don't like to sit here and

Speaker 1 pat my back on you. Yeah, pump yourself up.

Speaker 1 I still like.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 They'll say this:

Speaker 3 the quarterbacks have always been the hardest. Like, like Bonex last year, I talked about.

Speaker 3 Jamarcus Russell

Speaker 3 was the one.

Speaker 3 Obviously, but there were a lot of people in the league that didn't like Jamarcus.

Speaker 3 I had the wrong information, but my goodness, I've never talked about learning a hard lesson early on when he's on his knee, like throwing 60 yards, hitting a goalpost, and you're like a 25-year-old scout or sent from ESPN to do the first pro day ever.

Speaker 3 and you see that, and you're like, oh my God,

Speaker 1 how could this go wrong? Yeah.

Speaker 3 And then, and then when he's sitting in the sideline doing interviews and sitting on the ground, and media is coming up and putting the microphones in front of him.

Speaker 3 And I ask, I'm asking people at LSU, like, why is he sitting? Like, oh, he's just chill. You know, he's like relaxed.
And it's part of the reason he's so good.

Speaker 3 And it turns out, like, no, that dude's just lazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So, yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 I like like what you said about Bonix, too. I was wrong so far on Bonix.

Speaker 1 Yeah. What's the year? How many years do you give it until you're after three?

Speaker 3 Then you give it up. Although Sam Darnold, I'm still like Sam Darnold.

Speaker 3 I love you, buddy. You know, like I had, I loved Sam Darnold in that class.

Speaker 1 Loved him. So you're still, you're still holding on a little bit of stock.
You're being like a bad thing.

Speaker 3 I mean, he was the best quarterback in the league for like 12, 12, 13 weeks last year. That's true.

Speaker 1 It's true.

Speaker 3 So, so it's coming around.

Speaker 3 So if you were going going to give up after year three,

Speaker 1 so usually by year three, but not always.

Speaker 4 I do kind of feel bad for the scouts that spend all year studying guys, certain guys, and they fall in love with these guys. And they're like,

Speaker 4 I need you on my team. And then some other team swoops in and takes them beforehand.
How are you supposed to detangle yourself from that relationship that you've built up?

Speaker 4 Like, you've watched every play he's made, you've hung out with him. Oh, I know.
You've met his family, and now you're like, It's real, man.

Speaker 1 It's real.

Speaker 3 And that's why every team gives, like, whether it's like the gold star or the red star or the red dot, like they allow their scouts to go up to the board and be like, pick your one, pick your guy.

Speaker 3 And they do their best in the right situation. And they'll take it over a player with a similar grade and all that.

Speaker 3 But they do get to know them. Like these scouts, man,

Speaker 3 I know no one wants to hear it in Crimea River. They work for NFL teams, but like what they get paid for the work they do.

Speaker 3 Talking to them now, like I'm talking to a good friend who's in the southeast. And like it used to be like 12, 13 players in in the summer they're evaluating.

Speaker 3 And now, like, NIL and Transfer Portal and guys all over the place.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 3 it old missed, it was 12 or 13, and this year he had 30 players he had to write up in the summer.

Speaker 3 And it's not just like watching tape, it's like, like you said, like getting to know the background, like all the history, who's who's in charge of this guy. Now, who's the agent of this guy?

Speaker 3 What deals?

Speaker 3 It's a lot of work that goes into all these individuals in a region. And then you handpick the few guys that you like absolutely love, you believe in.

Speaker 3 you present that to the general manager and they and then they do their best but odds are i mean maybe you get one or two guys at best from your entire region in a draft and then you're looking at these reports like a binder this big and like

Speaker 3 files and and it's just all it's all gone yeah why do that for you should be a wild profession yeah there should be a scout of the year award

Speaker 4 because we don't celebrate the scouts actually We'll give it we'll give it to us.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we'll give it a few.

Speaker 4 We picked Josh Allen. Yeah.
I do.

Speaker 3 I'll never forget. That was like my one of my i mean obviously we did like the combine together and all but that was the first time being out in a real setting professionally with you clowns right

Speaker 1 what is going on with you because you guys are like going up to like gms and coaches yeah you saw his arm right yeah passing out the sheet at that point no one really knew what your whole deal was yeah

Speaker 3 and and like Media was not, media was, was staunch back then.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Like you, you had to have like permission and go through the certain channels to talk to a general manager head coach. And you guys were just like, yeah, you saw his big arm, right?

Speaker 1 We didn't get you guys yet.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, oh, gosh.

Speaker 1 You're like, I know those guys. Shit.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 I was just timing Big Cat in a 40. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, a grandma walked by.

Speaker 4 We think you might like this piece of literature, sir. Like Jehovah's Witnesses for Josh Allen.
Yeah,

Speaker 3 the pamphlet we used to call it, the Varsal pamphlet. Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's laughing now. But you're sure you'll get the last laugh.
Yeah, he's laughing at his looking out at the water right now in Miami.

Speaker 4 Yeah, there should be a Scott of the Year Award.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we'll give it. We'll give it a little bit.
Get on that. Get on that.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right, Todd. You're the best.
Appreciate you. Everyone tune into his show on the ringer.
And best of luck in the draft.

Speaker 1 Let's crush this draft.

Speaker 3 You got it, man. Let's do it.

Speaker 4 McShea was brought to you by our great friends over at Game.

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Speaker 11 Hey, this is Rhea from Chicks in the Office, and this season, we're heading home for the holidays with Abercrombie and Fitch. We all know our calendars are about to get chaotic.

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Speaker 4 And now, here's Coach Matt LaFleur.

Speaker 12 And now for something completely different.

Speaker 1 Okay, we now welcome on a very good friend of ours, recurring guest. It is Green Bay Packers head coach Matt LaFleur.
Coach, it's draft season.

Speaker 1 We wanted to catch up with you, talk some draft, but uh, thank you for coming on. Let's start, though.

Speaker 1 How would you grade your NFL head coach's picture at the uh league meetings uh a couple weeks ago? How would you think you did

Speaker 12 Personally,

Speaker 12 I give myself a B.

Speaker 1 Okay. I think I had you in the hot guy crew.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the hot boy crew with you, Canalis, Sean McVay, and Demico Ryans.

Speaker 12 That's a pretty good crew.

Speaker 1 I'll take that all day. Yeah, yeah.
So do you think, though, that NFL head coaches are getting too hot? Because

Speaker 1 we lost Matt Ruhl, who Matt Ruhl can dress up all he wants. He's going to look like Matt Ruhl.
Do you think that you guys are maybe getting a little too hot and we're losing a piece of that game?

Speaker 12 Yeah, I don't worry about that. That's, you know, I do take a lot of,

Speaker 12 I love watching your write-ups on all of us, though. I think that's very entertaining.
Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 But I mean, you definitely, we know Sean definitely takes, he thinks about his looks.

Speaker 12 He takes a lot of pride in that. Yeah.

Speaker 4 He had the PRP injections to grow the beard out a little bit. So, yeah.

Speaker 1 So what you're saying, he does a lot of things.

Speaker 12 He's Hollywood, though.

Speaker 4 That's true. He's right there.

Speaker 12 Can you blame him? Yeah.

Speaker 1 So wait, what you're saying is you're just naturally hot.

Speaker 1 You're not trying to do it at all.

Speaker 1 Whereas Coach McVay is, he's trying to do it. He's got to get dressed up and have everyone, you know, he's spending money on his face and everything.

Speaker 1 You're just rolling out of bed good looking.

Speaker 12 Well, Arthur Smith said otherwise. He said, I spent a lot of time on my hair and all that.
Okay.

Speaker 12 Can't say he's totally wrong.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 4 We do miss Arthur smith in the league too like as a uh as a head coach having him in that picture was a that was a nice touch too yeah no art's the best yeah yeah so um so coach you're are you hosting the draft are you do you have any hosting responsibilities yeah are they staying at your house i have no hosting responsibilities oh so nothing nothing additional are you going to be at the team facility are you going to be like at the physical draft itself Well, yeah, technically since it's here, but I'll be in the same draft room that I've been in the the last, well, I guess it was our first year in our new portion of our building.

Speaker 12 So I'll be up there in the draft room on the second floor. But

Speaker 12 it kind of, Goody's office is right around the corner, so you can overlook and see what's going on outside.

Speaker 1 Oh, all right. So can you break down, I know this might be boring for some people, but I'm actually fascinated with it, like your actual draft day schedule.
Like

Speaker 3 what time does it get cooking?

Speaker 1 What time do you guys sit down? You obviously have done all the work, but like, how does it work just sitting there in the war room and like, you know, the bullets are flying.

Speaker 1 You're trying to figure everything out.

Speaker 12 Honestly, it's just kind of a waiting game, especially we're picking 23rd this year, and there's a lot of unknowns, I would say, in this draft in particular, probably more so in this one than there is in previous years,

Speaker 12 just in terms of there's not.

Speaker 12 I would say a clear consensus in terms of how some of these guys are going to fall.

Speaker 12 And it's always a little bit of a crapshoot, but it's a lot of waiting around, but you can feel it starts to get tense the closer you are to making your selection. Yeah.

Speaker 4 So what's the, what's the snack situation like in your draft war room?

Speaker 12 You know, we got a lot of scouts that like to eat. And so I'd say there's some pretty good snacks floating around.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 Who are you guys going to pick?

Speaker 12 That's a hell of a question. I thought I got

Speaker 4 you. I thought I was going to have you.

Speaker 1 I feel like the Green Bay beat writers always know who you're going to pick before just because they know. Like, you guys have a type.
You're like the Ravens.

Speaker 1 Like, the Packers and Ravens, it feels like they always get the guy that they wanted to get, and he ends up being good. And it's like, God damn it, it happened again.

Speaker 12 It's not always the case, but

Speaker 12 you want to be successful through the draft, and thankfully our guys have done a pretty good job.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 So, so, like, when the pick, when you get closer to your pick, obviously you're not the GM, but you are the head coach are you are you being asked are you are you like weighing in or are you just like hey you guys have been doing all the work i'm gonna go coach the team you guys have been doing the scouting like i defer to you or do you get do you throw in like some thoughts and everything

Speaker 12 oh yeah absolutely i think the i mean i'm sitting right next to guti and and the rest of our our scouting department and um you know sometimes there's there's more conversation than others but um yeah i absolutely weigh in especially as we're getting close and it's usually there's a couple guys within the range that you're kind of targeting and um you kind of weigh in and give your thoughts and then you know just wait to see who we pick yeah do you guys still use the same draft chart the one that jimmy johnson came up with where he assigned all the numbers the different values for each pick oh yeah there's there's a couple of them out there uh that is one of them that you know we have that all this stuff up on the screen um on your computer screen and especially when you start talking about trades and you hear the phones ring.

Speaker 12 And, you know, each, I would say there's a lot of scouts in the room. And most of the scouts have

Speaker 12 a team that they're in communication with. So as those trades get thrown around, you start comparing and see where it falls.
And those draft charts, they're all a little bit different.

Speaker 12 We have our own draft chart, as a matter of fact. But we always use all those to compare in terms of where the value is.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Do you guys ever, has it ever come down to like the last second and you guys don't have your pick in? Has there ever been pressure on the clock that way?

Speaker 4 Because I remember the Vikings, they got, they, uh, they, I think twice, they didn't submit their pick on time and lost their pick.

Speaker 12 Yeah, that's, I mean, it hasn't happened in my experience here, but

Speaker 12 yeah, usually you have some, you always have a plan B. If, if something doesn't go through the way you want it, you always have

Speaker 12 something down just so that doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Do you

Speaker 1 text with any of your friends who are in different organizations, coaches, scouts, whatever, and like bust their balls like in a fantasy draft being like, that was a reach?

Speaker 1 Like, oh, we had a third-round grade on him. I would do that.
Do you not?

Speaker 12 I would say you usually just compliment when they pick somebody that you like. And then there's some laughter within the draft room sometimes.
Like, I can't believe they just took whoever it may be.

Speaker 1 but typically we kind of keep that in-house okay okay yeah because I would definitely not be able to help myself and just be like even if it wasn't true I'd just be like dude I had a third round

Speaker 1 third day grade on this guy I think I'm gonna try that approach this year yeah just because

Speaker 1 it will get in someone's head like that when you draft in fantasy football and someone says oh that's a reach you're you're just like fuck was that a reach even if they're fucking with you you definitely get in your head and then you you start making crazy decisions i think i'm gonna have to try it yeah well now if if any other coaches are listening to this interview and they don't get a text from you being like good pick then they're gonna be in their own head thinking like why didn't i get the the good good pick text from matt you must think that pick sucks we set that up one thing i would also do if i was a coach

Speaker 4 i would uh i would probably forget to do my draft prep and then read a mock draft like on my way into the office that day and be like oh shit okay now i'm good now i'm good do you do you ever read the the mock drafts and think to yourself like these guys have no fucking idea what we're talking about?

Speaker 12 Yeah, but I usually try not to look at any like mock drafts or any draft evaluations till the, till the very end of it. Yeah.

Speaker 12 Because sometimes you're, you're like, well, maybe I'm missing something, but

Speaker 12 you just don't want that to really factor into the work that you do watching the players and getting to know them.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you know what you need to do too is we found in our travels that NFL scouts actually listen to this show like more than probably any profession because they're in the car all the time.

Speaker 1 And I've talked to them about it. We're like, we've gone to college games where we'll see a bunch of scouts and they'll come up and talk to us.
I'm like, why are you listening to us? We're morons.

Speaker 1 They're like, well, we kind of, we live football and we kind of want to shut off our brains and listen to you guys be idiots. And I was like, actually, that's a fair response.

Speaker 1 So you, but I would imagine. A scout listening to us too much is bad for like their brain and scouting.

Speaker 1 So you should probably throw a test out there to see, like, maybe, maybe be like, hey, you guys hear Max get pranked by Jerry O'Connell with Big Dom.

Speaker 1 And if anyone says they had, you should be like, you're out. Get out of here.

Speaker 1 Like, you listen too much.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 12 Well, you guys are so entertaining, you know. I mean, I don't know about that.

Speaker 4 I think it's just good for them to feel smart about themselves. Yeah.
They listen to us and they're like, okay, yeah, I know what I'm talking about. These guys don't.
Right.

Speaker 12 Well, that's part of it, too. Right.

Speaker 1 There's no doubt about it.

Speaker 1 You basically, I would imagine a scout, like, if they're out on the road 200 days a year, they're toiling away trying to find the next diamond in a rough, they turn us on and they're like, hey, at least I'm not dumb like these guys.

Speaker 1 Like, it's almost like a confidence. Like, I can still do this.
I can still scout football.

Speaker 12 I don't think you guys are that dumb.

Speaker 4 We had a, I think I personally had a first overall grade on Joe Milton last year.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you probably, when you were scouting Joe Milton, were you like, man, that guy can throw football a fucking mile?

Speaker 12 Yeah, he can throw a mile.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I love watching him. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I have a real like Big J

Speaker 4 question for you. I need to hold your feet to the fire on something.
Ooh.

Speaker 1 A Big J? Yeah, Big J, Capital J journalist. Okay.

Speaker 4 Why are you afraid of the tush push?

Speaker 1 Oh, I know.

Speaker 1 Why are you scared of it?

Speaker 4 It's just a play. You can do it.

Speaker 1 You're being kind of a pussy about it.

Speaker 12 Well, I don't want to get into how I really feel about it. So, like, I am good with whatever they want to decide and do,

Speaker 12 adapt. But it has been a pretty damn successful play.
Ironically enough,

Speaker 12 we actually do better when we don't do the tush push.

Speaker 1 Oh, wait, so, but how do you actually feel? You don't like it?

Speaker 12 No, I don't. I mean, I'm indifferent, to be honest with you.

Speaker 1 What does it feel like when you know the tush push is coming, though? That's got to suck.

Speaker 12 Well, yeah, you know, I mean, they're in a favorable situation because it's still like, you know, almost 90% effective. So it's a tough play to stop, that's for sure.

Speaker 12 And especially with how Philly's done it and Jalen does a great job. But I really think it all starts up front.
Those guys do a really good job of getting low and allowing Jalen to use his

Speaker 12 Herculean leg strength to push the pile forward. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 If you're allowed to do the tush push, I think you should be allowed to do the thing that Frankie Louvu did, which is just jump over the line repeatedly and hit somebody.

Speaker 1 well see i think that's what we're trying to avoid right right yeah but that's still fun it's a good like the defense has the ability to do that i just i i thought it was very funny when the ref was like if you do it again we're going to award a touchdown i'd never heard that before nor neither did i yeah the uh sidebar i didn't know that was i i didn't know they could do that it's a real rule yeah yeah it is a real rule uh sidebar pft uh we won't let uh coach listen to this but i read a theory that the packers actually were like being the sacrificial lamb in trying to ban the Tushbush because they don't have an owner because they're weirdos like that.

Speaker 1 And you can't get

Speaker 1 mad at one owner. So like all the other teams wanted the Tushbush banned, but the Packers are like, we'll propose it.

Speaker 4 We'll say it and then everybody will just be mad at a state. Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, hey, what's up, coach?

Speaker 1 Are you still there? I'm here. I'm here.

Speaker 1 All right. So the real question is, and he's my coach now, Ben Johnson.

Speaker 1 You got beef with him. So, well, he called you out.

Speaker 1 I I don't have beef with Ben yeah so what what like have you guys ever talked and I listen he can squat 400 pounds I don't know if you probably can't squat 400 pounds I don't know I'd like to see that yeah he'll show it to you that's fine he also has a mean I don't know if you saw his first pitch it was nasty at Wrigley on Saturday it was I did not see it oh of course you saw it you did not see it you saw it you probably didn't see it because it was too fast yeah it was too fast that late breaking action it you would have struck out a hundred times out of a hundred times but You're probably right because I never played baseball.

Speaker 12 I was not a baseball guy.

Speaker 1 Okay, nice excuse. Uh,

Speaker 1 when he said your name, though, were you like, what the heck? I've never even talked to him.

Speaker 12 Well, it's funny because a lot of people reached out to me and they're like, How well do you know Ben? And I was like, I don't.

Speaker 12 You know,

Speaker 1 it's good for the rivalry.

Speaker 4 You need to watch the pitch, though, because it was some nasty stuff. It was like Greg Maddox.
Really? Yeah, it was, I think, the most impressive first pitch that I've seen in a very long time.

Speaker 4 But yeah,

Speaker 4 when he brought your name up, I think everybody was like, oh, old buddies just jabbing each other like zooms.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 4 do you work like 0.0001% harder because he said that?

Speaker 12 Anytime I'm just lacking a little motivation, I just think about that.

Speaker 12 It usually gets me over the hump.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like you could do the old, like, got to beat the Packers. He just went more personal level.
You know what I mean? He's like, got to go after Matt LaFleur.

Speaker 3 Make it personal.

Speaker 12 Yeah, Yeah, last time I checked, I thought it was Packers, Bears.

Speaker 1 No, it's Matt LaFlore, Benjamin. Packers, Lions.

Speaker 1 Squat Fest. We're going to do a Squat Fest.
I love that. I mean, you haven't beaten Matt.

Speaker 12 He can squat 400 pounds. Yep.

Speaker 1 I think it's 405.

Speaker 4 You haven't beaten the Bears in 2025, have you?

Speaker 12 We have not. We haven't been in the middle of the year.

Speaker 1 It's been fast.

Speaker 1 Yep. Yep.
Yep. There was a game.

Speaker 4 So maybe a shifting of the tides right now. I do want to give you some credit, though, for your coaching job this year.

Speaker 4 Because I thought what you did when Malik Willis came in to the outsider, it looked like you were calling, you were emptying the bag when Malik was out there, the way that you were like designing the running plays.

Speaker 4 Was that a fun week of work for you when you're like, I am going to need to figure out how to tailor this offense and win a football game? It seemed like you were having fun calling those plays.

Speaker 12 Well, I got to give our staff a ton of credit. Guys like Adam Stinovich, I mean, he's really the mastermind behind our run game.
And so a lot of times we'll build off our run game.

Speaker 12 We'll build our passing game off that. So

Speaker 12 yeah, he definitely, we have a saying around here. The only thing that limits you is your imagination.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 12 he's a pretty creative guy.

Speaker 1 That's like a Disney World saying. It is.
That's kind of lame.

Speaker 1 I actually bet on you guys, though, when Malik Willis, because to give you credit, I was like, Matt LaFour is a very good coach, and I think he's going to have Malik Willis in a great spot.

Speaker 1 And I was like, you know, there are a lot of people like Malik Willis can't play. I'm like, coaching matters a lot.
And you guys, like, you had the game planned for him.

Speaker 12 Yeah. And he went out there.
What was so impressive about what he did, he'd been here for three weeks before he started his first game.

Speaker 12 And I don't know too many guys that could handle that type of situation. And it's a credit to him and the guys around him being able to go out there and execute the plan.

Speaker 1 What this year, I feel like you got a little angrier this year. Are you working working on your anger? I am.

Speaker 1 I am. What happened? Did you feel yourself?

Speaker 1 Did you feel yourself getting angrier this year?

Speaker 12 Just in certain situations, you know, like when you call a timeout three times and they don't recognize it, you know, I think

Speaker 12 you kind of earn that right to get a little angry, right? Yeah.

Speaker 4 Did you know that some people were calling you mad LaFleur?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 12 I did not. I was unaware of that.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you got mad.

Speaker 1 You got mad. You got triggered.
People were saying that.

Speaker 4 In that that game against the Dolphins, when you looked across the field and you saw Mike McDaniel just like all bundled up in his very cozy park, were you like, we got this game?

Speaker 4 This guy can't coach in the cold.

Speaker 12 Yeah, but it's never about us. It's always the players.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's that's a smart cop-out answer. I like that.

Speaker 1 I saw a report that you're bringing in new ideas to keep the Packers offense evolving. What new ideas are we talking about?

Speaker 1 Is it PFT's lateral? Is it my fake punt punt? What are you doing?

Speaker 12 Well, I saw what Mike Leach said the other day. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 It was a report that he had said, yeah, before he passed. Yeah.
That one would be good. Oh, that'd be great.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 Would you sign the Rizzler? You know who the Rizzler is, right?

Speaker 1 I don't know who the Rizzler is. You know who the Rizzler is.
You're just playing Coy. You're doing this.

Speaker 1 And don't make us explain who the Rizzler is because we probably would have the FBI at our door.

Speaker 12 I promise you, I don't know who the Rizzler is.

Speaker 4 You just don't want the Vikings to draft him. You're like, we've got him on our big board.
He's the little kid that goes like this. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you know who Baby Gronk is?

Speaker 12 Yeah, I do know who Baby Gronk. Okay, so you know who the Rizzler is.

Speaker 1 You don't know who the Rizzler is. Big Justice?

Speaker 12 I don't know who that is either. Oh, man.

Speaker 1 And this is now you've reversed it on us because explaining it is just so embarrassing.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you don't need to know.

Speaker 1 I don't really want to explain who the Rizzler is. What do you guys do?

Speaker 12 Spend all day on social media or something?

Speaker 1 No, literally, yes.

Speaker 4 No.

Speaker 1 That's our job. We're shiths who sit on our phones all day.

Speaker 4 Do you have a burner?

Speaker 12 Do you look at social media you know i try not to i'm not going to say i never do because but i do not have a burner but i try not to because you know i i learned this lesson one time um

Speaker 12 back when i was the coordinator for tennessee we we had a game versus philly we won in overtime and you know i was feeling good about myself had like a 20 minute ride into work and they were saying great things on the radio and then the next week we went out and got smoked.

Speaker 12 And so I just thought it was karma, bad juju. I don't want any part of it, both good or bad.
So I try to stay off of it as much as possible, which I think is impossible in today's world.

Speaker 12 But for the most part, I try to stay away from it.

Speaker 1 We're probably pretty smart. We might have just relapsed you because you're going to walk away from this being like, who the hell is the Rizzler? I got to find out.

Speaker 12 I can't. Wallers, you know who the Rizzler is? Okay, he knows.
Yeah, of course he does.

Speaker 1 He's the regular person.

Speaker 4 He's QB1 in this draft. You throw him over the line of scrimmage and easy touchdown every single time.
It makes a tush push look like the least effective play ever.

Speaker 12 I wonder if my kids know who the Rizzler is. Yeah, they definitely.

Speaker 1 How old are your kids?

Speaker 12 My kids are 13 and 11. Yeah, they know who the Rizzler is.

Speaker 4 They probably have the Rizzler posters.

Speaker 12 So they're probably going to make fun of me that I don't know who the Rizzler is.

Speaker 1 They actually probably will go, they'll probably say, yeah, Dad, we knew about the Rizzler. That was six months ago.

Speaker 1 So they're going to not only make fun of you, but then make fun of us adjacently being like, these guys are fucking losers, too.

Speaker 1 So that's going to suck for us. You'll have to update me if that happens.

Speaker 4 I got kind of probably a dumb question. It might be a good question, though, depending how you answer it.

Speaker 4 Have you, Sean, and Kyle, ever gotten like on the group chat together and said, like, what if we just, what if we just all teamed up again on the same team one day? Like, maybe 20 years from now?

Speaker 4 You know how like the Eagles break up, they do their own side projects, they do a reunion tour? Has that ever been discussed?

Speaker 12 Yeah, I think it'd be great. we we usually get together in other settings you know

Speaker 4 would you are you closing the door on ever being on the same coaching staff again

Speaker 4 absolutely not oh i like that who would be the head coach

Speaker 12 oh we got some pretty strong personalities between sean and kyle so

Speaker 1 i don't know yeah um

Speaker 12 i don't know i don't know if they could coexist you know being

Speaker 12 same division all these years yeah

Speaker 1 that's possible that's true

Speaker 1 When your former quarterback Aaron Rodgers said that he's looking for a culture like the Packers, were you like, did you have a little smile on your face? You're like, I told you so.

Speaker 1 Grass is always greener.

Speaker 12 No, I didn't know he said that.

Speaker 1 Oh, you're such a liar.

Speaker 1 I don't. You're such a liar.

Speaker 1 You're such a liar.

Speaker 12 That does make me grin. That makes me happy.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
He went to the Jets for two years and he's like, God damn it. I didn't realize

Speaker 1 what life was like. Yeah.
What What is it?

Speaker 12 I've heard some of those crazy stories from the Jets. My brother was the coordinator there.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 So were they true?

Speaker 12 A lot of them, yes. Wow.

Speaker 1 Sorry, memes or producers.

Speaker 4 Every time an article would come out about the Jets, he'd be like, this is completely made up.

Speaker 1 He'd just attack all the journalists.

Speaker 4 The Jets are fine.

Speaker 1 Diana Rossini, Florio, he'd go after all of them.

Speaker 1 Is there one reporter? Unfortunately,

Speaker 12 just between Sala and my brother, you know, there's some interesting stories. Yeah.

Speaker 12 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Is there one reporter that if they call, you're like, oh, shit, this person's called. They must have something.

Speaker 1 Not really.

Speaker 12 I feel like most people don't even reach out to me. So I kind of, I don't, I don't mess with that too much.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 All right. So when you guys draft

Speaker 1 and then you bring them in for minicamp, is there like a, do you have a feeling right away like, all right, we did, this is good?

Speaker 1 Or like, how quickly are you like, I think this is someone that was going to be here for a long time versus, uh, we got some work to do?

Speaker 12 I think every situation is a little bit different because I know there's been some guys that we've gotten that you think this guy's going to be a player and he, he fizzles out. So, um,

Speaker 12 but you know, everybody learns at a little different rate. And I hate to be just a blah answer, but I feel like that's really how it is.
You got to get them in. And,

Speaker 12 you know,

Speaker 12 a lot of these guys just haven't been exposed to what they're going to be asked to do at this level or the the type of system that we may have so i think you got to give these guys you know at least a year to figure it out yeah all right off that is it what would you say is more demanding for a college a guy getting drafted is it the physical side or the mental side of the nfl

Speaker 12 i'd say both but which one is more if you had to say oh i i mean i would probably say the mental side, because you're probably not drafting them if they physically can't do what you want them to do anyway.

Speaker 12 So I think, and just, although the landscape of college has changed in terms of the length of these seasons now with, I mean, some of these guys are playing

Speaker 12 14 games, 15 games. So

Speaker 12 it's just the season has gotten longer in college football. And that's usually a big adjustment for guys coming to this level Is you know, you can the rookie wall, um, that's a real thing.

Speaker 12 Yeah, you can see just the energy that these guys have.

Speaker 13 Um,

Speaker 12 so yeah, but I think definitely the mental when it comes to a new draft pick.

Speaker 4 How often are you in touch with them on like a one-on-one basis? Because as a coach, you have you have a lot of jobs, you got a lot of stuff that you have to do.

Speaker 4 How much time do you carve out to like meet with them one-on-one and give them specific instructions

Speaker 12 for?

Speaker 12 Again, it depends on the situation.

Speaker 12 You know,

Speaker 12 I would try to spend a little bit of time with each guy as they're onboarding and getting a chance to know them throughout the course of the offseason. But you're right.

Speaker 12 I mean, we've got a big roster size. We got 90 guys in the offseason.
So it's impossible to spend as much time as you'd like with each guy. Yeah.

Speaker 4 One thing I love about draft night is the first time that a coach makes the call to the guy that he's about to draft.

Speaker 4 We always get to see those videos after the fact of that initial conversation that you're having um do they have your number stored already and they know when you're calling them like hey this is the green bay packers no i don't believe so i think it just shows up that the area code shows up and it shows up as green bay and uh but no they definitely don't have our numbers how how many numbers do you have going into the draft well i mean we got a computer system you just read the number and dial in the digits.

Speaker 4 It's just all the players ready to go.

Speaker 1 He kind of talked down to you there.

Speaker 4 Yeah, but no, I'm saying you have to be able to call it.

Speaker 12 I don't all these guys' numbers.

Speaker 1 Don't let them talk to you like that.

Speaker 1 You have to look at a screen, but where do you get the I'm wondering how many numbers they make the call? Oh, so you got a guy. So that's beneath you.

Speaker 4 It's beneath you to dial a phone.

Speaker 1 No, yeah.

Speaker 1 This is gotcha journalism.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, coach, I got one last question for you.
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Speaker 1 Promo code take. So the draft is three days.
At what point in the three days are you like, enough already? Like, I'm done sitting in this room.

Speaker 1 Because I feel like, or maybe you're used to it, just sitting in the room and eating food, you know, take out every single day for three days in a row.

Speaker 1 Maybe that's something you're used to, but that's something we're used to. Are you built for it? Or are you like, you know, halfway through Friday, you're like, all right, I'm ready to go.

Speaker 1 I want my life back.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of downtime.

Speaker 12 You're talking about hours for a quick selection, and then you're just waiting and the the most brutal part of the draft process is watching all these players that you you kind of fall in love with get picked by other teams yeah so i mean it's it's it's kind of painful to sit there and watch all these guys fly off the board and then inevitably uh it happens almost every year where you're in a position where you you got your target set on a guy and right before you picked, he gets picked.

Speaker 12 So you got to pivot and go to another guy.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you got to get over it real fast. Do you?

Speaker 1 We'll send you some Rizzler videos for the downtime.

Speaker 12 Please do.

Speaker 12 I do actually have a lot of downtime where I can figure out who the Rizzler is.

Speaker 4 Are you going to listen to any music on the way into work to get pumped up?

Speaker 12 No, I'm going to listen to pardon my take.

Speaker 4 Oh, that'll make you dumber.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that'll make you really dumb. I'm going to send you a Rizzler.

Speaker 12 That'll actually make me feel good going into the draft process, right?

Speaker 12 That's what you guys told me.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yep.

Speaker 1 I'm going to get a Rizzler compilation and send it to you. And then that way,

Speaker 1 when your GM is looking over and being like, hey, coach, what do you think about this pick? And you just have the Rizzler up. It's going to be like, what the hell's going on? Yeah.

Speaker 4 You're going to think much less of us after you watch two hours of the Rizzler.

Speaker 12 I'm excited about the Rizzler. The other thing I'm excited about, I got to see this first pitch.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 12 I'll say you really talk this up.

Speaker 1 Great, late cutting action.

Speaker 1 Look like Greg Maddox.

Speaker 4 Have you thrown a first pitch?

Speaker 12 I have have never done that.

Speaker 4 What? The Brewers ever had John?

Speaker 12 We were just talking about this the other day.

Speaker 1 Is it because you're scared? I've just thrown out it open. You're scared to do it.

Speaker 12 Well, now I'm going to have to do it, right?

Speaker 12 Yeah.

Speaker 1 You're scared to do it. It's fine.
Don't be scared. I've thrown three first pitches.

Speaker 12 Do you think I'd get booed if I came to a Cubs game and threw out the first pitch?

Speaker 1 Yeah, probably. It would be fun, though.
But you should. That would actually be very fun.

Speaker 1 Actually, we should see if you could come to a Cubs game, throw out the first pitch, have Ben Johnson in the box. He'll take you 400 feet.

Speaker 1 Maybe he can catch.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I want to see your first pitch now.

Speaker 1 We got to get this.

Speaker 1 Don't be scared. I know you're scared.
There's a lot of pressure. I can tell you're scared.
Don't be scared. It's not that hard.

Speaker 12 It's a lot of pressure.

Speaker 1 And you have to go from the rubber. I'm going to say that right now.
If you don't go from the rubber, I will judge you.

Speaker 12 Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of guys who don't. There's a lot of guys who step up.

Speaker 12 No, I'm throwing from the mound. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. Good.

Speaker 4 I got one last, last last thing for you. Are you guys playing in Ireland this year?

Speaker 12 That's a great question. I can't wait to find out.

Speaker 4 Oh, you don't know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you are.

Speaker 12 I promise you, I do not know. I promise you.

Speaker 4 I feel like they should tell you about the international games a little bit sooner, right?

Speaker 12 Well, we knew last year we had a pretty good indication that we were playing Philly and Brazil.

Speaker 12 But on this one, we're kind of in the dark right now and just kind of waiting. I know it's a possibility.

Speaker 4 Because I've read Packers, Steelers, and Dublin, Ireland.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

Speaker 4 that would be fun.

Speaker 12 I think I'm sure they're waiting on Aaron Rodgers, whether or not

Speaker 1 you can't get rid of this guy. Yeah, yeah, he's holding up your life still somehow.

Speaker 12 If he goes to Pittsburgh, then I'm sure we'll probably be there.

Speaker 1 That's so perfect that it just all leads back to Aaron's decisions. You just another offseason waiting for Aaron's decision.

Speaker 4 He misses that culture, though, man. Congrats on the culture.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Hey, we take pride in that. All right.
Thanks so much, Coach. Take care.

Speaker 12 All right, guys. All right.

Speaker 1 Take care.

Speaker 1 Give it up for Chicago.

Speaker 14 Sebastian Maniscalco's new stand-up special, It Ain't Right, is coming to Hulu on November 21st.

Speaker 1 30 years ago, Jeff Bezos, complete nerd. Bezos now ripped to shreds on his super yacht, and the boxes keep coming.

Speaker 14 Sebastian Maniscalco, It Ain't Right, premieres November 21st, streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.com.

Speaker 4 Man, I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 7 Snickers satisfies, man. That's a winning play.

Speaker 1 Okay, FAQs time, Hank. Let's wrap it up.

Speaker 1 Wrap it up.

Speaker 1 He's lost. Yeah, he's lost.

Speaker 4 It's okay. He'll get there.

Speaker 1 He'll get there. Come on, sweetie.
You got this. You're good.
Well, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 There's no way you would have been able to plan for the FAQs coming up. I have them right here.

Speaker 1 Come on, sweetie.

Speaker 5 Hey there, Big Cat PFT and the guy who literally can't get the lottery ball. Oh.
If you had to follow Wendy's rule of five dinner, what four recurring guests would you invite, dead or alive?

Speaker 1 Rest in peace, Tommy Lasordo. Oh, this is a good question.

Speaker 1 Hmm.

Speaker 1 Are we doing this as a team, or is it your personal? I think we got to do it as a team.

Speaker 4 Genie Bouchard.

Speaker 1 I think we got to do it as a team. All right, Bonk, put it on the bonk list.

Speaker 5 Paige Sporanik.

Speaker 1 Bonk list.

Speaker 1 All right.

Speaker 1 Fauci.

Speaker 4 Fauci.

Speaker 5 John Cena.

Speaker 1 This is tough. And Dak.
This is tough. Yeah.
This is. Because you don't want to do, you want to do

Speaker 1 guests that would normally not mix. So, like, you wouldn't want to have, I, I love Rasilo and SVP, but if you brought both of them, it's like, okay, they're just going to talk about, you know.

Speaker 1 their show and their history. Like, I want to have, I want to have all other four people be introduced for the first time with each other.
It might be Damon.

Speaker 4 It might, yeah, he'd be fun. It might be recency bias, but I think that Bill Raftery would be a great

Speaker 1 call.

Speaker 4 Bill Raftery and Walk-a-Flock of Flame. Those are my first two.

Speaker 1 Have we had Walk-a-Flock of Flame on the show? We didn't? No. I thought that we did.

Speaker 1 Yes, he did. Yes, we did.
Yeah. You talked about the deaf sign language.
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.
We had Flack of Flame.

Speaker 1 Flex.

Speaker 1 J-O-C.

Speaker 4 J-O-C.

Speaker 4 J-O-C.

Speaker 1 Bill Raftery is a really good one, too. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 Hmm. Dead or Alive, he said.
Tiffany Gomas.

Speaker 1 Good pick. Bill Walton?

Speaker 4 Bill Walton would be great.

Speaker 1 Bill Walton would be awesome.

Speaker 1 Bill Walton.

Speaker 1 And then John Cena. Because you could just leave a chair open.

Speaker 4 It's true.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's a good question, though. It's so hard.
Like, what would be the best...

Speaker 1 We should make a graphic where it's like pick. Maybe Melt Rushmore.
No, I'm oh, that we've done that, and it hurt.

Speaker 4 It hurt a lot of feelings.

Speaker 1 No, I know it's recurring guests.

Speaker 4 You were about to pick Jules this time, right? It's before we stop pick,

Speaker 5 it's for a dinner party, right?

Speaker 1 But I would like to see what the AWLs I got the last one: what?

Speaker 4 Joey Chestnut.

Speaker 1 Oh, little dinner show. Pay a lot.
Yeah, I would, we should do the

Speaker 1 meme where it's like you get to pick someone at your lunch table and it's like different categories. So you could put like S, you got to pick one of SVP, Rasillo, Herb Street, or whatever, you know.

Speaker 1 And then it's basketball players. And it's so let's do that.

Speaker 4 The vending machine should have SVP next to it. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Big cat.

Speaker 1 Just?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 5 Who in the crew would you trust most to babysit your kids for a weekend?

Speaker 1 Oh boy.

Speaker 1 Oh boy.

Speaker 4 Uncle PFT is getting ready to buy some beers.

Speaker 1 Oh boy.

Speaker 1 I weirdly might say Max one.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I maybe.
I think you would be two, PFT. You're one or two, PFT.
It's either you or Max. That's a guarantee.

Speaker 4 I think I would be respectful. No, no, I think you'd be very good.

Speaker 1 It's not. You sometimes forget things.

Speaker 1 That might. It was more that.

Speaker 1 It's not a knock on you in terms of.

Speaker 1 Wasn't there a girl?

Speaker 1 Yeah, right. Yeah, I'd be like, there's a girl one around here.
So it'd be your Max, one or two. Max would be maybe remember things more.
I think you'd be more fun.

Speaker 1 Then Hank, three, just because I think he would take it very seriously. I don't know, though.

Speaker 4 Hank would have to golf. There might be a lot of texts.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 4 where's the bottle?

Speaker 1 Memes, my kids would just watch TV all weekend. They wouldn't do shit.
Is that fair, memes?

Speaker 1 No, we'd do stuff. Like what? I don't know.
I'll go to the park. Okay.

Speaker 4 I think the kids would love having memes come out. He'd come in with like six televisions.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So many TVs. Shane by far last.

Speaker 1 Pug, you'd be in there. So I'm going to go final answer.
PFT1, max two.

Speaker 1 Then we're going to go like draft like McShea did. PFT max one and two.

Speaker 1 So I'll say PFT1, max two. Those are my blue chippers.
Then there's a big drop-off.

Speaker 1 hank then there's a really big drop off

Speaker 1 pug memes then there's an enormous drop off shit

Speaker 5 jack's not even in in the equation jack and i are beefing right now okay

Speaker 1 i walked out and it smelled like shit in the kitchen and i was like why does it smell like like fish again and dottie was like it smells like beef and uh jack was playing ping pong he plays ping pong he's actually a professional ping pong player that's all he does every day is he He plays all the time.

Speaker 5 He hasn't even sniffed beating me.

Speaker 1 And Jack just out of nowhere just goes, I don't think it smells that bad. And I just turned him and I said, Jack, listen, your only jobs here are to play ping-pong and agree with everything I say.

Speaker 1 And he's like, okay. And then he went back to playing ping pong.

Speaker 4 Any smell can smell disgusting if you're not ready for it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was a new smell that I came out. You had been baked in it, Jack.

Speaker 4 Unexpected smells. It could be a gourmet steak.
And if you're not, if you don't see it coming, you're like, what died in here?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Jack, do you think you could babysit my kids?

Speaker 1 If you asked me to, yes. Okay, but what about you going out with the cool kid club here?

Speaker 1 I would take a day off. Okay.
One day? That's this. The question was a weekend.
As long as you need. All right.
So, Jack, Jack's above Shane.

Speaker 4 Hank, were you upset with that ranking? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Why? You thought you should be ahead of Max at PFT?

Speaker 5 I don't know what Max has that is

Speaker 1 dog

Speaker 1 girlfriend.

Speaker 1 I don't know. Dog.

Speaker 1 You get a dog.

Speaker 1 What do you have? Spiders?

Speaker 5 Not anymore. So

Speaker 4 you let your spiders die. The dog is still alive.

Speaker 1 The dog is still alive. I think if you had a dog, you'd be up there.
It's just like having a dog, I think, puts you immediately, you're halfway there. You are a dog.
Okay. Yeah, you are a dog.

Speaker 1 Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 5 Did any of you guys go into an interview with little to no expectations and come out of it really liking or having a newfound respect for the guest?

Speaker 5 The Tony Hale interview you did a few years ago back did that very thing for me.

Speaker 1 Tony Hale. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Buster Blue. Yep.
I liked him.

Speaker 4 I would say... J-O-C.

Speaker 1 Yeah, J-COC is the number one.

Speaker 4 J-O-C is the easy number one.

Speaker 1 J-O-C is the number one.

Speaker 1 We didn't even want to take the interview and they were like, come on, he's good. And we're like, all right, fine.
And then it became our best friend.

Speaker 4 We're like, wait, that's the guy that's married to Rebecca Romaine?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, maybe we can meet her.
Maybe he'll give us some pictures. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Has there been any other? Because we always say J-O-C.

Speaker 4 I really like Julius Randall. Yes.
Didn't I like to expect from that?

Speaker 1 I liked Paolo a lot.

Speaker 1 I mean, old school Joe Buck. Like, I think we always thought we would get along with Joe Buck, but it was, you know, who knows? Because we didn't know

Speaker 1 if he was going to be

Speaker 1 the best. And he was the best.

Speaker 4 I thought that Chris Long was a piece of shit until he was on the show. Yeah.
I was like, I kind of respect him.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm trying to think if there's any others. Hank, can you think of any others?

Speaker 4 Gary Busey.

Speaker 1 Gary Busey was very fun. Uh,

Speaker 1 Tom Fernelli, I thought he was a piece of shit. Mm-hmm.
Martin Scrubby. He still might be.

Speaker 4 Oh, because he stole all the takes from Hank.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's stealing everything from Hank.

Speaker 1 Prisco's a prickly one that I think.

Speaker 4 Exactly what I expected.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I think we're the only ones who like him. Yeah.
Like, I don't think anyone likes listening to him. Yep.
We just like listening to him.

Speaker 1 Which, guess what? It's our show. Yes.
If you come up with your own show,

Speaker 1 and you could ban Pete Briscoe.

Speaker 4 I mean, another one would be Max Homa. We just knew Max as like a

Speaker 4 kind of quirky online guy, but we didn't know him personally the first time that we had him on. Like he had, I think, talked to us via DMs.
Like he played Warzone with Hank.

Speaker 4 He and I had DM'd a few times, but

Speaker 4 we didn't know each other. He came on the show and we're like, yeah, love this guy.
Brooks. Yeah, Brooks.

Speaker 1 Brooks is the first interview we did with Brooks. We were like,

Speaker 1 I can't remember. I got connected with one of his guys and he was like, hey, you ever want Brooks on? We're like, I guess we'll go do it because they were playing at the, was it the U.S.
Open?

Speaker 1 No, it was the PGA. U.S.
Open. It was the U.S.
Open. And we're like, yeah, we'll go interview him.
And then we're like, shit, we love this guy.

Speaker 1 And then he ended up winning more and coming on all the time. So that was definitely one.
Yep. I thought it would be a one and done.
And it's become a. Someday we should.

Speaker 4 Relationship.

Speaker 1 We should get everyone.

Speaker 1 Like the day that we end this podcast, hopefully

Speaker 1 many years from now. But how many of these guys you think we can get in one room? It'd be pretty cool.
Would be.

Speaker 1 Just have them all together.

Speaker 1 All right. Is that it? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Good job. Thanks.
Great job, Hank. You think you should have been two?

Speaker 1 Or one?

Speaker 5 No, no. I respect your judgment.

Speaker 1 Do you think you could take care of kids for an entire weekend? No. Right.
But

Speaker 1 Max, like.

Speaker 5 Better than I just.

Speaker 5 Max is like a.

Speaker 1 He's like, he's basically Santa 24-7.

Speaker 1 He is.

Speaker 1 He's a jolly big guy with a beard. Yeah.
Like, kids like that. I mean, I've said it on this show.

Speaker 1 My kids are obsessed with when his, I show him every time Max's butt comes out, which is a lot, his butt crack, and they always are like,

Speaker 1 my daughter's like, can I see Max's butt?

Speaker 1 Like, Max is the funny guy. He's got a butt that comes out.
Yeah, it's fair.

Speaker 5 Work to be done.

Speaker 3 Work to be done.

Speaker 1 You're not going to do anything.

Speaker 1 Find your inner parent on the golf course. Work to be done.

Speaker 4 You got a few girls that call you daddy, though.

Speaker 1 Nope.

Speaker 4 You're not a father, but kind of.

Speaker 1 Nope. That was the fastest nope ever.

Speaker 1 All right. Good show, boys.
Numbers. Three.

Speaker 1 70. Oh, no, 17.

Speaker 4 77.

Speaker 1 37.

Speaker 1 99 Pog. Nope, you weren't on, Pug.

Speaker 3 You're on. 99 Pog.

Speaker 1 44.

Speaker 1 Nope. 94.

Speaker 1 Not today is the day.

Speaker 1 You want to go one more, memes? Yeah, let's go one more. Numbers, three.
I said it. I said it.
I think I said it. I said it.
I think I said it.

Speaker 4 61.

Speaker 4 77.

Speaker 1 17.

Speaker 6 99 put.

Speaker 1 If we both get it. 24.

Speaker 1 Or we both can't get it. I have 17.
17.

Speaker 1 What were you saying? Today's the day?

Speaker 3 Today's the day.

Speaker 1 100!

Speaker 1 100!

Speaker 1 You are so. You couldn't be further away.

Speaker 1 I had a dream that one of you guys took three and got it, and all the computers in front of me were broken. How did they break? From me.
Oh, okay. The podcast was safe.

Speaker 1 You left that part out of the dream. The podcast was saved.

Speaker 1 Love you guys.