NFL Writer Michael Silver, Jayden Daniels Is Incredible, The Jags Are Dead, College Football Talk + Guys On Chicks

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On today's part of my take, we have a great, great interview with Michael Silver.

He's got a new book out called The Why is Everything?

Talking football, the Shanahan coaching tree, some awesome stories of behind the NFL. He came in studio.

Really, really interesting.

He's been obviously in the game for a very long time. We're going to talk Monday Night Football.
PFT was in the house. We're going to talk College Football Wednesday.
We've got a lot to get to there. Hot seat, cool throne, guys on chicks.
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Okay, let's go.

Hey, football guy.

But D, the A, W, H.

Martin, Mike, Ted.

Yeah. Martin, Mike, A.W.
Part of my take. Yeah.
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Use DraftKings right now. Pick six app and use code take take that's code take for new customers to play five dollars on your first pick six set get fifty dollars and pick six credits only on draft kings pick six the crown is yours today is wednesday september 25th and pft jayden daniels is incredible i don't want to get ahead of myself here get ahead of yourself i don't want to get ahead of myself get ahead of yourself he's so good he's so good he's so good pft is holding up a championship belt yes i am now i'm not going to get ahead of myself it's a long season and it's too soon to say anything definitive about him but what i saw last night made me feel emotions that i have not felt in my cold dead football heart in decades it was it was awesome it was so fun to watch and it's not just like the throw he had to terry at the end was one of the craziest throws i've ever seen in the face getting destroyed in the pocket and threw it on a dot to terry dropped it in the bucket i'm happy for terry too most of all because he's had some they showed the graphic i think that was his 11th quarterback he's got a touchdown pass from yeah there's been some bad names on that list yeah some real bad names on that list and uh it was it was an incredible moment that that throw was obviously great but what really got me excited about jayden i heard some people calling it jay core stadium now oh it might be called jay core oh yeah so he won the lsu off um and we'll get to the bangles a little bit i think they'll be fine i don't um but what got me the most excited about jayden uh was how he handled like third downs fourth downs yeah he was cool he was directing guys around he was calm in the pocket finding guys downfield on second downs picking up like six seven yards to make third down easier like i i have i think that's the best game i've ever seen a quarterback play for my team he played a perfect perfect game.
It was a perfect game. Like every big play that you needed, whether it be run or pass, because he mixed in runs, but it wasn't like, oh, he's just running.
It was just timely, perfect runs and then big-time passes. And, yeah, it was an incredible game to watch.
Like he was out of this world good. And eyes downfield while he's scrambling to the side, so the linebackers can't come up up too far and commit so he's going to take those yards when they're there with his feet or he's going to find somebody downfield uh it was it was so fun being at that game uh i was screaming my head off the bangles fans by the way city cincinnati awesome people yeah love the bangles fans they were bummed out obviously because their team didn't look great on defense but there were no punts no turnovers yep it's the first time that's happened since when like i don't know last week no no punts and no turnovers in the same game oh oh both sides for both sides the commanders did it last week i want to say like 40 years 50 years something like that yeah and then the commanders did that uh i don't think the commanders have ever done that like two games in a row with no punts and no turnovers is just insane.
So it feels like I'm watching a different sport. Now, I have to get better as a fan because I'm not used to winning.
I'm not. So I've got to figure out how to win with class.
That's a very good point, Big Cat. I didn't even pack a second Washington shirt to wear on the plane ride home the next day, which is a rookie move.
And I know Chiefs fans are really good at this. When they go, when they travel for a game, you got to pack a victory shirt to wear through your opponent's airport the next day.
I didn't even have, I didn't have a victory shirt. I think you gotta, I mean, it's, there's levels to it.
We got to, you got to start with your victory shirt. I think you also have to figure out the victory koozie because like, yeah, that that's one, you know, pre-gaming at a bar you got to put on, you know, you get the, you get the beer, throw on the, the chiefs koozie.
Yeah yeah that that's one you know pre-gaming at a bar you got to put on you know you get the you get the beer throw on the the chiefs koozie yeah there's all kinds of accoutrements that you need i'm not used to this he's making all this better i'm building a winning culture for myself as a fan right now it was so much fun to watch it was he was out like every pass was perfect and you know what the best part was it's just the feeling last night and then this morning waking up and watching every single highlight compilation i was watching i was downloading all these youtube videos for the plane ride home uh even the like foreign ones that are spoken in the robotic british voice where they don't really have the rights to it it's like still pictures yeah and it's just narrating what happened during those still pictures i was watching those i was reading every article about jayden i was overdosing on Jaden Daniels. I OD'd on JD.
You should. He was so good, it completely overshadowed the fact that Trevor Lawrence might stink.
That's very true. That's how good Jaden Daniels was.
Yeah, he might stink. Yeah.
And I think Shad Khan said before the season, this is the best team that the Jaguars have ever assembled. So to me, that does not sound good for Doug Peterson.

But sticking on your game, yeah, G was out of this world good.

Cliff Kingsbury called a perfect game.

I do think the Bengals are in trouble.

Their defense is not good at all.

Their defense, I think they have some injuries because I was reading Bengals fans getting upset.

Trey Hendrickson obviously was playing, but I think they were on their seventh, eighth, eighth and ninth defensive alignment. But here's why the Bengals, I think, are in trouble.
One, their defense feels like it's a very big problem that is going to be hard to fix. Also, only six of the 225 teams that started 0 and 3 in the Super Bowl era have made the playoffs.
One of them famously was my pinky team in 2018, the Houston Texans. So 2.4% chance of the Bengals statistically making the playoffs.
Does it help there's an extra game? Does that matter? It might. It might matter.
I also think. Statistics major there, Hank.
I'm going to look this up. Yeah, that's very insightful, actually.
I didn't mean to actually. I'm just going to say that was very insightful, Hank.
Yeah. But if you look at their schedule, I'm going to do Pete Prisco on you.
It's all about the schedule. It's not easy.
They have an easy schedule. Oh, they do? Yeah, the Panthers.
Are the Panthers easy? Andy Dalton. Revenge game.
All revenge game. Ravens.
That's a tough place to play in Carolina now. It is.
They got the brown bags off their heads. Keep pounding.
I did see that dave canalis tweeted out uh keep and then went dot dot dot yeah i don't think he's allowed to say keep pounding it's not part of his covenant uh then they got the giants the browns the birds raiders uh ravens again chargers i don't though so i think they have one of the easier schedules in the nfl but the problem is when you start oh and three and you have to get the 10 wins, you can't have another fluke bad game. You can't have another unfortunate Chiefs ending of the game.
The margin for error now is so thin for the Bengals. But this is also what the Bengals do.
It's true. The only reason I think it's different.
They did kind of get robbed on the no pass interference again. Yes.
Yeah only wait again or no sorry that was the falcons they the chiefs got the pass interference yes the chiefs didn't get a pass interference i'm not gonna write off the bengals because joe burrow and that offensively i just think it feels different because i don't know where the fixes are on defense the only fix i have for the bengals is joe bur has to change his hair color. You can't be 0-3 with that hair.
And we love Joe, but I think he deep down knows it. That was a very popular sentiment in the section I was in.
He was like, get rid of the frosted tips, Joe. That's a 3-0.
You can't lose. You've got to cut your hair.
They showed him going into his coach's office after the game. He didn't go to the locker room.
He walked straight into the coach's office with sack taylor and they had a chat about something he should just walk right into the barbershop yeah right afterwards and be like nope can't take it off i can't you can't lose with frosted tips or like diet jet black yeah yeah go goth yeah go it's it's sad around here he's in a sad boy era right now yeah it was uh god damn it was a fun game to be at i mean it It to have been so much fun so before the game i was lucky i i had uh a couple beers with the mayor of cincinnati nice half tap pureville i don't know who killed harambe uh no he took over after he's the one that covered up the death of harambe but you met with him before with with back in the day right back in the day yeah i don't know anything about his politics he's a cool guy had a fun time drinking beers with him and we made made a bet because I love the good mirrors bets where they do the dorkiest bets ever. Did you get us Harambe's ashes? No, I didn't.
Oh, PFT. My initial plan was to ask him for all the documents surrounding the death and subsequent cover-up of Harambe.
But the bet was if the Bengals won, he was going to get my mega jeans. Oh, nice.
Because he loves the JNCO look. He loves the wide legs.
And then if the Commanders won, he had to buy me a full case, 24 Skyline Chili cans. Oh, wow.
So he's going to be shipping some Skyline Chili. I never saw that coming that you were trying to get Skyline Chili.
I mean, I kind of got forced into this bet. So I guess you have to eat some Skyline Chili in a little bit.
That's so much Skyline Chili. I I have a hypothetical question.
People are trying to drive wedges in between certain people on this podcast based on quarterbacks. I would like to talk about that.
But the question of the week. Hank, do you have a noise for that? Oh, you almost.
Wow. That was so close.
You just edged us. Yeah.
You literally edged us with the nerd nugget of the week. Do it again.
Do-do-do-do. Okay, the question of the week.
I'll ask Hank. Okay.
Hank, I want to be respectful of everybody on this podcast. Always.
But right now, if you're starting a franchise and take everything like age, contracts, all that stuff into account. Coaches? Yeah.
No, just straight up. Just the player.
Would you rather have Jaden Daniels or Jalen Hurts? That's what everyone wants to know right now. I like this question, BFT.
Be honest. Be honest.
Contracts matter. Max, don't interrupt the question of the week ever again.
Don't fucking do that. I you knew what that was doing.
You knew what... I didn't.
I didn't realize... Because everyone wants to know the real question, and you guys don't talk about the real question.
Max, I'll talk about the real question. You guys don't want to talk about the real question.
You look like the fucking Kool-Aid man in the booth. That's what memes just said to me.
You're ruining the question of the week, Max. Phillies.
NLE's chance. The answer's Phillies? Who would you rather have? Can we have that as a graphic? Would you have jayden daniels or jalen hurts answer phillies who would you rather have jayden daniels or jalen hurts if it's contracts and jayden daniels but just purely because of the contract what about no contracts no contract jay jalen hurts is more experience okay more experience yeah okay more winning experience max would you like to ask the real? What do you say to the haters? What do you say to the haters, Big Cat? I say that I...
Let's say that the Bears have done it again. Yeah.
I say I'm in a fucking no-win situation because if I respond to them, they're going to say that I'm just trying to cope. And when in reality, PFT and I have known each other for a very long time.
We've been doing this show for a very long time. I consider him one of the closest people in my entire life.
He was at that game. His quarterback history is just as bad as the Bears quarterback history.
He watched Jaden Daniels perform like that. I felt nothing but happiness for him.
Nothing? Yes. Can you let me finish, Henry? Now, this is partially because I am completely undeterred with caleb williams if i were deterred at all i would probably have a different feeling i am undeterred i think caleb williams is great i think he's going to be great i know people want to fucking nitpick and say lol bears week three you know three weeks of the season he's a bust that's fine they could do that me when i go to bed when i put my head on my pillow at night i'm like

caleb williams is fucking awesome why can't we both have awesome quarterbacks the only part of pft's situation right now that i'm jealous of and i will be fully uh transparent for is cliff kingsbury can call hell of a game as an offensive coordinator and i got a fucking dumb dumb poopy poopy brain and Shane Waldron.

That one,

like the,

the commanders with out Dan Snyder seem like they're running an organization correctly. The bears still have their head up their ass.
So it's not that I think Caleb Williams is, I feel the kill Williams is going to be great. I still think the bears are a big problem.
I agree with that. I think they're both going to be great.
I think they're both really good. People can't.
Jay Daniels is so good. If I say it, people are like, oh, you're just coping.
But this is my true sentiment, so I don't know what else I'm supposed to say. They want me to be mad about something I'm not mad about.
Here's the issue. If you get down to the offensive coordinator situation, Cliff Kingsbury, he was Caleb Williams' offensive coordinator last year at USC.
He obviously knows what he's doing with talented quarterbacks. Your offensive coordinator now was hired because he was the guy that would take a job in essentially a lame duck Matt Eberflus era.
Yes. So if you had started over again and fired Matt Eberflus this offseason, then you would have a good offensive coordinator and we could we would you that's you could that's a leap you would you could potentially have a good offensive head coach yeah our offensive yes but the fact that the fact that they didn't fire matt meant that uh eberflus had to go out there and make phone calls be like hey i really need you to help me turn this thing around or else we're all going to be fired next year.
So could you maybe move to Chicago? Don't buy, but rent a house. And then have a clip where they announced it live at a Super Bowl press row, and Jackson Smith-Njigba, who is live, was like, oh, they hired him? Yeah, good luck with that.
Yeah, his former wide receiver. So yeah.
Listen, I stand with Big Cat. Despite what Big Cat may have thought a couple weeks ago, I am rooting very hard for Caleb Williams.

No, I believe you.

I bet on Caleb Williams big time last week.

I've seen the throws and the plays he can make.

He's going to be a very good quarterback.

He just had the most passing yards for a Bears quarterback

since Brian Hoyer in 2016.

I don't know what – I mean, the Hanks of the world,

the trolls of the world, they're literally going to not –

if I say this, they're going to be like, there's no way this is how he's feeling i don't know what else to say i was very happy for pft he deserves happiness that was awesome to watch can i just i literally i just want to talk about how good he is again i would i would pft i was i would tweet jayden daniels is incredible or jayden daniels what a throw. And just all my replies are like, you're so salty.

I was like, what?

How can I, what do I need to do?

How do I correct it?

I don't know.

Just say he's so good.

He is so good.

There we go.

He's so good.

Everybody knows.

Everybody knows.

In my power rankings today, he was Jaden Daniels is incredible.

Washington Commanders next to him.

You know what?

Okay.

So also having like a tiny bit of success.

And I fully realize this is one game and I'm not going is one game, and I'm not going to overreact,

and I'm not going to get ahead of myself.

But now I can't wait for...

I don't like that look.

Hank's tongue is out.

The tongue is out.

Put your fucking tongue back in your mouth.

He's like Steph Curry when he's about to put up a three from the moon.

Hank's got a troll thought that he would like to ruin the podcast with.

MJ's tongue and Hank's tongue, two most famous tongues.

Not a troll thought, just a thought, because you said it's been a long time. MJ's tongue and Hank's tongue.
Two most famous tongues. Not a troll thought.

Just a thought.

Because you said it's been a long time.

Maybe Steven Chase.

Years, whatever.

You did have an electric run with a quarterback.

Taylor Haneke?

Not too long ago.

Ryan Fitzpatrick?

RG3.

RG3 versus the Vikings.

Primetime game.

Electric.

Oh, this is mean.

I'm just saying. Listen, go back under the bridge.
That was a similar situation. What are you talking about? Two things could be unbelievable game.
Great performance. What do you mean unbelievable game? It was an unbelievable season from RG3.
It was very good that season. Hank, two things can be true.
You said that you haven't felt this in a long time, but did you not feel the same way with RG3? That's over a decade ago. Okay.
That's 12 years ago. But did you not feel the same way? Listen, two things can be true.
One, Hank's a piece of shit troll, and two... I mean, that's just a fair thought.
I also think he said multiple decades. Yeah, he did.
No, he definitely did. You won't let me even say .2.
That's how big a troll you're being. My .2 is Hank is actually correct.
There's a lot of similarities between Jaden Daniels and RG3. They're both electric athletes.
Jaden is already more developed as a pocket passer than RG3 was. His deep ball is incredible.
Learn ball, Hank. Yeah, learn ball, please.
Oh, and by the way, Taylor Britt, the cornerback on the Bengals, he is the... Who's the LeBron stopper? Dylan Brooks? Yeah.
Lance Stephenson. He's like the Dylan Brooks of the NFL.
He loves talking shit before games. It's crazy.
He was right about Xavier Worthy. He was, but he also didn't have a great game against the Chiefs.
I think he gave up a big touchdown that game. But he was talking shit about the offense.
He did have that crazy interception. We should – The interception was insane.
Bengals fans are going to get mad that we didn't say that. Yes, but he's also addicted to talking shit.
Correct. So he talks shit about the college-style offense, simple offense, and then he got cooked.
Oh, back to Hank. Yeah, the troll.
There's a ton of similarities. There are a lot of similarities between the situation I'm in right now and where I was in 2012 mentally um the difference is I think that Jaden is built to last in the NFL as long as we don't fuck him up with a weird creepy injury I think what I saw from last night that tells me I got I got 12 years of happiness i think the organization helps no dan snyder yeah no that's the answer no dan snyder no dan snyder i was just trying to clarify what your okay thanks for asking for clarification i know we're grass guys but i'm thinking just like please maybe just bulldoze the thing and put in some really good turf like keep them healthy because we can't figure out how to keep a grass field healthy for people.
I also don't appreciate Max's little grin. He knows that I'm getting too happy.
No. Commanders are top of the NFC East.
Yes, buddy. Yes, they are.
Yes, they are. Wave up at him.
No, I wish Jaden Daniels was not in the NFC East. I'm willing to say that.
He looks good. He looks very good.
I wish he wasn't in the NFC East. That is the biggest compliment I can give.
Yeah, I appreciate that. What I feel a little bit is maybe one day Eagles fans will hate the Commanders again.
Maybe one day Cowboys will hate the Commanders again. I was thinking that.
It was TV 2. What? Monday Night Football.
You had Jaguars Bills on TV 1?

It was a blowout.

Oh, you were watching Love Actually?

Yeah, no.

Yeah.

You were doing Smoochie Face on Love Actually?

Nope.

The only answer you can say right now is Monday Night Raw.

No.

You weren't watching Monday Night Raw?

I've never watched Monday Night Raw in my life.

Were you watching Southern House or whatever?

I was watching a movie.

I was watching Twisters. It was a fine movie.
Okay. That's pretty sick.
You didn't see it in theaters? But I was watching it on my laptop. Oh, that's TV2? Oh, that's TV2? Yeah.
I don't have two TVs. What's TV3, your phone? TV3 would be phone.
Correct. Well, actually, to be honest, it was Phillies.
And then the Phillies started to put it away. Then it was...
I love it. I love it.
You're overlooking us. I love it.
What? No. No.
I'm not overlooking him. Is Jalen Hurts the third-best quarterback in the NFC East now? Well, if we're doing the question, like, which quarterback would you take, given the salary, age, all that? I would take Jane Daniels.
Thank you. Thank you, Max.
Oh, wow. Any rookie can be.
On a rookie quarterback? On a rookie contract? But, yeah, he's, I mean, I don't know. It's one game, but he's the best quarterback in that division, maybe even in the entire league.
It's one game. And I'm not going to get ahead of myself.
He's right about the one game. How many touchdowns did he score against the Giants? He's right about the one game.
How many drives? How many touchdowns did he score against the Giants? How many punts did he have against the Giants? That's a real question we should be asking ourselves. Two games in a row, no punts.
No interceptions either. Yeah, no.
He looks very, very good, and I do think he's going to be a very, very good quarterback. I'm also excited.
But he scored zero touchdowns against the Giants. Okay, well, that was a long time ago.
That was last week. Weeks ago.
Weeks ago. Weeks ago.
Decades ago. Yeah, just as many.
Weeks, decades. No, Jaden Daniels looks incredible.
I'm excited to also get mad at hypothetical quarterback lists now, too. what did you say earlier before hank interrupted you you said that you said that you're very excited about something yeah i'm excited about getting life uh angry yeah life everything i'm excited about getting angry at people that i think are slightly disrespecting my quarterback okay like becoming full stan what what is your schedule looking like what's your projection now after last night.
Well... think it's soupy i no no not think it's soupy off i i did fire off a tweet at like 3 a.m as i was uh i got back from the casino i had a couple cocktails uh cj abrams style and i uh i said that i i think he's gonna win a super bowl in the next five years whoa and i think he is i like, um, Yafs this year.
Love that. We're thinking Yafs.
Yafs is realistic. And I do think that the Bengals can make the Yafs, given their schedule.
I think they'll, Lou Amaruno, how do you say his name? Yeah, you got it. And Arumo, he's so good.
He's going to figure, Coach A. He's going to figure something out.
I don't know if they have the dudes. They lost some guys on, on Yeah, and then Trent Brown going down was bad too.
Bad. Best tattoo ever.
Yeah. Two girls sucking him off on his arm.
Yeah. We should talk about the other game real quick.
Josh Allen is incredible. I know people will be like, he's a leader for the MVP right now.
He basically beat the Jaguars in 30 minutes.vor lawrence helped to beat the jaguars he looked bad uh they had commanders had a perfect game josh allen had a perfect half yeah and the game was over it was over it was over i mean demar hamlin picked off trevor lawrence and it was over but josh allen was he was toying with them that wasn't it's so i'm very happy for bills fans like, the angst of having to reset the roster and everything – you have Josh Allen. And Josh Allen is what a franchise quarterback looks like.
And we've said it a million times. Just because he's not Patrick Mahomes doesn't mean he's the second – he is the second-best quarterback in the NFL.
And this is how – this is why you see it. And it probably is addition by subtraction, losing Diggs.
Oh, definitely. And Gabe Davis, who you never knew if he was going to actually be alive on a week-to-week basis.
Yeah, Keon Coleman got a touchdown. Keon Coleman.
It feels like Josh has turned a brand-new page, a clean slate for this team, so he doesn't have any of that excess baggage that he used to have. And so now he's just going out there.
He like i have to win these football games and also cook is looking really good at running back cook looks awesome shakir looks awesome and as as again the games get further into the season gets colder they're going to lean on that running game yeah and uh joe brady loves to lean on the running game when it works they're not going to abandon it i i think that the bills are for real yeah it looks awesome it was brady at like a five touchdowns to five different players is a sign of a great team and a great quarterback. And, yeah, just Josh Allen just seeing the game better than anyone right now.
He is the leader for the MVP, I think, odds-wise. I mean, he's playing better than Mahomes through three games.
Trevor Lawrence might suck. Now, I haven't thought Trevor Lawrence sucked because I'm like, it's the Jaguars, and also he was really good at Clemson, and that guy's somewhere.
When he did the spin to nowhere, that was the first time where I was like, oh no. Or the pick to tomorrow.
I mean, the pick was tomorrow, but the spin to nowhere. Picked off by a dead guy.
Bad picks happen. That was a really really bad pick but the spin of nowhere made me that was a sam darnold seeing ghost moment where he's literally just it was he spun with to nowhere it just made it worse for him yeah and so i feel like he's spun into his own guy yeah it was i don't know i feel bad for chaps this is situation.
And then, I mean, we did get to see Mac Jones' first play fumble,

which was very funny.

It was perfect.

Guy just punched it out of his hand.

I don't know where to go if you're the Jaguars.

Yeah, it seems like –

London.

Yeah, go to London.

You're right.

When the owner says before the season starts that this is the most talented

team he's ever assembled, then that means that it's on the head coach.

Yeah.

That means that Doug Peterson – Is not long from this world. Might not be.
Bring Urban back? I don't know. It was also one of those games you've seen a lot of.
Nothing would have looked weirder than Bill Belichick. That's the weirdest fit ever.
I just want to see him back. In a Jaguars outfit on the sideline.
I mean, what he's doing with the Cowboys is so funny. Have you seen that? No.
He does McAfee every week, and he's over-complimentary about how well the team is built and they have all the players and all the tools. That's amazing.
They need something to figure it all out. He's just openly essentially applying for the job, being like, their roster is really constructed great.
Like, they have all the tools. He's got a little bit of Hank Lockwood in him.
He's got some of that troll going. Like, when he was talking about the Falcons on the Manning cast and saying, yeah, he's one of those guys that they got in trouble for because they tampered with him.
He's just going to scorch their thoughts. I got a text from Chaps.
I just read it right now because I think he sent it during the game and I was drunk and preoccupied. He was in hell.
He said, yeah, same thing. Kind of cool that Trevor Lawrence is the first guy picked off by a former corpse.
Oh. So, yeah.
Damar's back. Yeah, Damar is back.
Happy for Damar. First interception.
Very happy for Damar. I love the double Monday night football.
Double football double header monday night football i know we had the discussion but that was exactly why because the bills jags game was over in 10 minutes and the commanders bengals game was awesome if we had just bills jags that would have been a really disappointing monday night yeah something i'm gonna have a backup plan i like having the standalone because it's good to just especially after watching all your screens all day on sunday it's good to have one game that we can all focus on together. But if there's a blowout, it's good to have the backup plan.
And this was a great backup plan. And we have it again next week.
Oh, who do we got? Lions, Seahawks. Yeah, Lions, Seahawks should be great.
And then I think it's like Dolphins, which is actually, it's good because if they could ever do like flex scheduling to schedule it this way, it would work where you're like,

this is the game that's going to be a bummer,

and this is the game that should be great.

Titans, Dolphins, bummer.

But then Seahawks, Lions to save the day.

That would be great.

Yep.

So it's like you just basically start your Monday Night Football

a little bit early, and yeah, you get the Lions-Seahawks,

which is going to be awesome.

Yeah, it's going to be a very fun game. Okay, should we talk a little college football before we do hot seat, cool, thrown, and then get to our interview? Let's talk.
I don't know where we want to start. We could start – actually, you know what? Let's start with Tennessee.
Tennessee goes down to Oklahoma, throttles Oklahoma. It's very weird watching Oklahoma play football without a good offense.
But that's not taking anything away from Tennessee's defense because it feels like Tennessee finally has a defense. Yeah, and it also feels like the backup quarterback that they put in is probably going to be the starter for Oklahoma.
Yes. He looked a lot better.
What's his name? Fuck. He was shifty.
He was twice as good as the starter. So I think Oklahoma will improve based on that.
But yeah, Tennessee is for real. And Oklahoma officially on the...
Michael Hawkins. Jackson Arnold was the one who got benched.
So Oklahoma, they're supposed to be SEC now. Yeah.
They ain't SEC. Not yet.
No. It's weird.
It is very strange. I mean, it's all strange.
I watched on Friday night. I watched a vaunted ACC matchup of Stanford versus Syracuse.
That's so crazy, isn't it? So crazy. So Tennessee is for real.
They have some big-time games coming up. I'm excited because it does feel like Tennessee under the Hypel era, who Hypel seems like a pretty good dude.
He had a video where it was nice. It was touching because he obviously went to Oklahoma.
Venables was his coach. All these things.
Got fired from there. He had a video where he's like, I know you guys brought a little extra juice for me.
The social media guy was doing a memes angle because he was just standing underneath Heupel's double chin. So I've thought this about Heupel for a little bit.
He desperately needs a beard. Dude, I don't know if a beard could save it.
The problem is he was a really good quarterback and was very skinny then. Yeah, he was very athletic.
Yeah. And now great coach.
Yeah. Great coach.
And his offenses are fun. If you're a Tennessee fan, you're probably – he's the exact perfect coach that you would want, I think, because he's such a college head coach such a college he runs such a college offense that you're not going to be in danger of him leaving for the nfl i don't think yeah because that's not it's not going to translate i guess it just depends on money money probably but i'm saying like if you're a there are a lot of dumb owners that would probably make that gamble but he's an awesome awesome head coach and i think that what he's put in is pretty repeatable yeah yeah i'd agree um obviously nico is a game changer nico's awesome nico's awesome i i'm i'm buying tennessee stock uh also the clip if you're a tennessee fan you're just you know tennessee porn the peyton manning coming out with morgan wallen yes in a full tennessee jersey with the pants and helmet was I'm not a Tennessee fan or Peyton Manning fan, really,

but that clip was hilarious. What was Morgan wearing? Probably just, I don't know.
I think he just wears a jersey every time. The Harrison Bucker jersey every time.
Yeah, he wears a jersey every single time. All right, speaking of coaches, Josh Heupel, we have two coach things I wanted to talk about one was uh your jmu uh almost got mac brown resigned but he didn't which is one of the funniest like things so jmu put 70 on unc hung 70 70 they got paid to put hang 70 on a first half 50 burger yeah and they lost so bad that mac brown after the game told his team in the locker room that he was retiring.
And everyone believed it. And then after the game, there was someone from inside the UNC program said he's not retiring.
He will be in the office tomorrow and getting back to work. That source said Saturday night, going in and having a normal Sunday.
Sometimes you just got to say things he just says sometimes you just got to say it and then you have almost a post nut clarity afterwards and you're like oh that was stupid i shouldn't quit yeah he's driving home he's like i really like getting paid yeah i like being the head coach he said afterwards he said he was disappointing and disappointed in himself uh in his reaction by saying that he was going to resign, which I'm all for.

I think it's a hilarious reaction.

I think that's like if you get beat by that bad,

just being like, you know what, guys, I'm done.

Especially when you're old.

Yeah, when you're old.

Because it's like you guys are going to kill me, so I'm quitting.

I think in a weird way, he definitely wasn't doing this on purpose,

but it's kind of like the Phil Jackson move of you've got a bad team

and now the entire story is about Mack Brown

and it's not about his players.

He also has a bad team and now the entire story is about Mack Brown and it's not about his players. He also said he clarified afterwards that he didn't fully resign.
He said, if you all don't feel like I'm the leader you need, then I'll go do something else. And then everyone was like, no, we still want you to coach.
So he rallied the troops after a 70-point loss. Yeah, he quit and then the him coach again correct which tells you named him coach tells you he hasn't lost the locker room yet is he the interim coach now i think he's interim coach mac brown yeah take you over for mac and then the team will decide whether or not to promote him full time but yeah that was an ass kicking i think jmu is really good yeah i think they're gonna be i thought this was gonna be a down year uh i think they're gonna be right there uh competing for the sunbelt yeah they look really really good i just i love i mean beating a team that bad to have your have a coach resign fake resign yeah that's got to feel awesome it's pretty good and their offensive coordinator at jmu is awesome isn't he hank dean kennedy situate situate kid uh i've known him forever he's like two years older than me he's my sister's age that's scary that was that Hank knows someone who's an offensive coordinator.
Like he's running your team's offense and he knows Henry Lockwood. Yeah.
He's a stud. I mean that was – Absolute stud.
It's the Holy Cross effect. I was doing some research after because I was like, Dean Kennedy, offensive coordinator at JMU.
But it's – he went with the Holy Cross coach. He was there.
Bob Chesney. And now he's at JMU killing it.
Yeah. I mean people are saying he might be looking at some nfl offers oh the other who's saying that me just right yeah the other people so the other coach story was hugh freeze being a absolute idiot yet again uh he had a double whammy he had a ex-player bo wallace come out and just say he's the most selfish guy ever it's always the quarterback's fault it's never his fault and then he said on monday uh i love sam pitman and i hope he wins the rest of his games but i'm telling you the hard truth is we play arkansas nine more times we beat them nine times and that's what's hard to take that's loser talk they lost 24 to 14 and his quarterbacks through four interceptions including hank brown sorry, Hank.
He was the next up Hank. Yeah, Hugh Freeze, I feel like the rope's running a little thin.
Yeah. I think they're getting a little sick old Hugh Freeze down there in Auburn.
Well, I think also Hugh Freeze, not that any of these guys are good losers, but Hugh Freeze has won a lot everywhere he's been, and getting used to losing, he's not going to deal with it well. No.
I mean, he won from a hospital bed. Yeah.
Yeah. So that was a funny.
Auburn feels like they're in a tough, tough spot. Basically, they just need to lose by two to Alabama in the Iron Bowl and be like, all right, we're building something.
It'd be an ultimate football guy move if instead of, like, inspiring your team from coaching from a hospital bed, you actually dig your own grave and put up a headstone and then you lower you're in a casket with an ipad and your coach you guys have killed me i like that i like that go out to save my life boys we should probably talk about the big michigan win which was old school smash mouth football that didn't work for the entire second half so michigan beat usc uh so Michigan starting Alex Orgy who can't throw and they were like we're just gonna run the ball USC made they were down early made some good adjustments to halftime uh going up to the final three minutes Michigan had nine yards and zero first downs in the second half and then uh Khalil Mullings had a 63-yard run and Michigan survived. And now, like, I know it's obviously a cliche, but it is very funny that USC's first game in the Big Ten, and you could basically say, well, they just punched you in the mouth and played bully ball.
Those soft California boys couldn't handle it. Yeah, they couldn't handle the fullback at the end.
That was a good block by their fullback. Holy he gave him the old the old chicken wing and and post them up almost yep uh yeah they can michigan you can spin this very easily and be like yeah we beat you playing old school michigan football uh but it probably you probably got a little bit lucky at the end too yeah yeah because that that was a play where they just couldn't do anything and then they broke a couple tackles but.
But you know what? You know what you say if you're a Michigan fan to a response to what you just said? We leaned on them. We leaned on them.
You leaned on them until they break. They got tired.
You keep running the ball until they break. Those California vegan legs didn't have the fast twitch.
So Alex Orgy was 7 for 12 for 32 yards after being named the starter. Yeah.
But that might be the formula for michigan just like maybe even don't let him pass the ball what's the point of having 32 yards passing just have zero yards they were gonna i felt like they were gonna maybe put in davis warren again who had thrown three picks against arkansas state last week uh and they're still like nah we'll go with alex orgy here did you hear about you hear this one? No, no, no. Tell me, tell me, tell me.
They call him Orgy because when he's on the field, you've got to put eight dudes in the box. Ooh, nice.
That's a lot of dudes in the box. That's a lot of dudes.
It's an Orgy. Yeah, that is.
Well, that's a gangbang. That's a good point.
Yeah, that's not an Orgy. That's a good point.
That's definitely not an Orgy. Okay.
Yeah. You've got to clean that up.
Yeah, I'll clean it up. Yeah.
We're still workshopping that one. All right, last story I had.
I don't know what else you had, PFT, but Travis Hunter should be the Heisman. Thank you.
Thank you. And maybe it's because I bet on him preseason, but Travis Hunter should be the Heisman.
Thank you. That was the other thing I wanted to talk about.
I said that on Twitter during the game, and then everybody was like, well, he is the front runner for the Heisman. No, he's not.
No. He's not even close to being the front runner for the Heisman.
But if you look at what the Heisman trophy is supposed to be. Yes.
He is the best football player in college football. The best football player in college football.
Maybe the best football. If you said best football player alive right now, you could maybe say that.
I think Jaden's got him. Travis Hunter.
And I think he gets a little knock on it because people have Deion fatigue and all that stuff. If you actually voted for Heisman, how it should be voted, best player, not how every award now gets voted on, which is essentially best team's quarterback, which happens in the NFL and in college football, which sucks.
Travis Hunter should be your Heisman Trophy winner because he is the best football player in college football. He is averaging 131 snaps per game.
131 snaps per game. He ranks fourth amongst all receivers with 37 catches and six with 472 yards.
And he's also, on defense, has allowed 11 receptions for 75 yards in 142 coverage reps.'s crazy how good he is and that he's show hey for football and what he did at the end of the game was insane he forced the fumble at the goal line won them the game pft he did he forced the fumble at the goal line to win him a game but he also had seven catches for 130 yards yeah and on the forced fumble that was his 144th snap of the night it's crazy now you you could say is this sustainable will he be able to play this many snaps i i think it might be hey because i know he got hurt last year but it's fucking insane that a dude is he is one of the best wide receivers in college football and the best cornerback in college football how is he not the Heisman? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
He is the Heisman. He should be the Heisman winner, but the haters out there like Brandon Walker would say it's not sustainable.
I think Brandon Walker doesn't know college football. That's Deion fatigue.
That's why he's not our college football expert. Yes, that's true.
But yeah, Travis Hunter is the best player in college football.

But Brandon did walk me through a mental exercise,

and I think he's right, which is just close your eyes and think about an undefeated SEC team.

How is the quarterback of that team not going to win the Heisman Trophy?

I mean, if it's Jalen Milrow.

Jackson Dart, he'd probably win it.

What if it's Quinn Ewers and he missed a few games? That's a good point. That could easily happen.
Do you think if Texas runs the table, it could be Arch? No. I don't think you're going to lose your job.
The Mannings even came out and said it, which of course they did. They're like, we believe in the process.
We believe you can't lose your job to an injury. Very classy.
Very classy of them, yeah. I think that they're going to bring Ewers back unless Arch lights up a real SEC defense.
If Ewers is out long enough, and I'm not talking about Mississippi State, I mean a real SEC defense, if Arch Manning lights them up, then I could see Sark saying, we can't really go back right now. They could also do like a Jalen Hurts to a thing.

Well, Arch does have, I mean, he does open up the game because his legs.

That's what I'm saying, but they might have the option where it's like,

if things are going south, throw Arch in, turn it around.

He did have one bad, he had a bad interception to start the game,

maybe because I bet over 13 and a half points the first quarter,

and I was watching intently, but then he came back and was awesome.

But also, so back to Colorado real quick. They just play the craziest games all the time.
The Hail Mary, I've never seen anything like it. Dave Aranda, I mean, he was going to be fired probably if he won this game.
It doesn't really matter. He's running out in Baylor.
How do you have back-to-back Hail Marys that one was completed, the other should have been completed, where you have one guy on a receiver? Yeah, it was bizarre. But that's what Colorado does.
They play in these crazy, crazy endings. And it's so much fun.
And it's so much fun to watch. And then you have the Dion factor, which is if you love them or if you hate them, it's going to be very it does feel like the netflix reboot of tebow mania yeah like they just win yeah somehow against yeah sometimes some bad teams i think the winning might the winning is going to come to an end turn this weekend because it feels like uh i think they're going to ucf and they're pretty good this year and then they have some big 12 oh shout out by the way utah back to their old tricks cam rising i can't i can't quit them they cam rising was they wouldn't tell us if he was going to play or not and then he played one snap that's just what they do kyle whittingham loves he's addicted to to injury ports being vague with cam rising specifically keep them guessing yeah we got some good games coming up this week oh yeah georgia bama georgia bama i like bama i haven't decided yet i don't think georgia pass does georgia have the horses big cat specifically in offense i yeah i pass okay i passed i'm passing hey i'll give you an answer on friday you watch a lot of college football Georgia.
You're taking Georgia? Yeah. Do you know where the game's being played? No.
Bama. Bama.
You're taking Bama. Georgia.
Okay. What about the shit guy getting off easy? Oh, yeah.
Burrito guy. So this is just a new trend.
I think we touched on it on Sunday. No, no, no.
Florida State. Florida State won.
Yeah, I know. Florida State did win.
They beat Cal.

So the guy who said he was going to – there was the curse of the guy. Yeah.
Yeah. That would have been such a great loss too.
Cal was – like the memes going into the game. Oh, Cal Twitter is awesome.
They were going to turn into Calahassee, and they were making these AI-generated images of a bear at the gates of the stadium, confiscating people's guns. Yeah.
they've Yeah, Cal Twitter has been so funny because they just leaned into all of the cliches about the University of California, Berkeley. They said they were going to rename it Woke Campbell Stadium.
It was Dope Campbell Stadium. When they beat Auburn a few weeks ago, they said that they renamed it's no longer War Eagle.
It's like Peace, Diversity, and Inclusion Eagle inclusion eagle it's so funny they said that they were going to turn it was not going to be like a checkerboard pattern like like tennessee does but that florida state was going to have a rainbow yes so you're wearing and if you're sitting in certain uh rows you have to wear a blue shirt indigo violet it was very funny it was great it was great uh great week of college football though great week of college football yeah love college football anything else from college football travis hunter should be the heisman everyone should tell tell two people if everyone tells two people that's a lot of people we've told yeah pay it forward yeah and again this has nothing to do with like what we did did you bet him uh which is odds right now he should 20 1. I just looked as you were saying.
I will bet him. I will bet him before this episode comes out.
Bet it. Bet it.
He should be. I mean, we did it last year with Jayden Daniels.
I know. Exactly.
I was going to say. We don't really know the power of this podcast.
I'm not saying that we got Jayden Daniels a Heisman, but we didn't hurt it. Yeah.
We should make shirts that say Travis Hunter should be the be the heisman yeah and just every week just even if he has a bad game just like well he played 130 snaps yeah no one else did that uh okay let's do hot seat cool throne then we'll get to our awesome interview with michael silver and his new book on the nfl there's making a sandwich and then there's crafting a sandwich and when i want something perfectly crafted i go straight to boar's head for over a century boar's head has been dedicated to crafting premium deli favorites every ingredient is carefully chosen every recipe made with a purpose their oven gold turkey smoke master ham and ever roast chicken are made from premium whole cuts hand trimmed and perfectly seasoned last weekend i perfectly seasoned. Last weekend, I made the ultimate sandwich,

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Hot seat, Gultura.

Hot seat is Erling Haaland.

Oh, soccer. We're talking footy.
Talking footy. Did you guys see this? No.
Man City beat Arsenal. Okay.
And Erling Haaland, they scored, which I liked, but people are very upset with him. He took the ball out of the goal and was running back, and then there was a defender basically standing in the box, facing the other way, and he just threw the ball at the back of his head an arsenal guy oh okay i like that so people are no easy buckets yeah people are fired up there was a little scuffle after the game people that's shit people are calling him a scumbag but i think it's like if you're you know one of the best players in the world that's kind of kind of what you do yeah it would be an honor to have somebody throw a ball at my head if i was beating the shit out of them yeah no he it was it was the...
Erling Holland won and then just kind of threw it at the back of the... Oh, Holland.
Yeah, he threw it at his head. Yeah, the other guy.
It was insult to injury. Oh, okay, okay.
Classless, as someone's saying. I like to move.
More bad blood than soccer. Yeah, listen, Man City...
I mean, soccer does have bad blood. Man City, you got to stand up for yourself.
It's a gritty, scrappy neighborhood in London, and the people that live there... Beatles are from there.
Yeah, they probably like having a player like that who will embody the culture of their city agreed i have another one yeah travis kelsey oh this i think is also uh contract no i think and i don't really have the hate that i had for the chiefs when the patriots were good but i so i could i think it's easier to say that people are getting on travis kelsey hasn't had a good start to the year they're saying he was going to retire if he didn't have a podcast uh but i think when you're the chiefs and you're you know back-to-back champs and you know who you are it doesn't matter that much yeah mahomes has not played great as long as and but they're still winning and as long as travis kelsey's healthy in the playoffs like yeah he's gonna be fine correct they're gonna be fine yeah he'll be okay but the I think it's more maybe the Swifties them getting involved and being like why isn't Travis playing well is creating a narrative oh showing shots of him on the sideline looking sad oh so is it Mahomes fault that's there's there's a lot and wait no hold on I would like to do a message real quick Swifties are you listening to listening to this? Yes, you are because you're a big-time AWL. This usually goes well.
So, Swifties, let's talk heart-to-heart. You love me, I love you.
PNV, we'll just pretend that never happened. Travis Kelsey is being blackballed by the Kansas City Chiefs.
They're basically shutting him out. They're not letting him play.
They're not letting him score. They're not letting him be great.
And the name and culprit behind all this is one Matthew Nagy. Okay? Go find him.
Actually, don't do that. That's bad.
Matt Nagy was the problem. Swifties.
I went a little too deep there. They won't.
They actually are listening to this right now. My theory, Swifties, is that Brittany is telling Patrick not to throw the ball to Travis anymore because he's a liberal.
Oh. But I thought, isn't Brittany, she's back with T.
Swift? Oh, she's back with T. Got it.
T oh i think tiana i think i think trump told britney to tell patrick to not throw the ball to trance kelsey because he's a liberal again though i don't know if we're clear if trump hates taylor swift or not you might like her that i mean tweet just said i hate taylor swift that could mean anything like a six- old teasing way he might love her gumming her hair yeah I like this chicks love that so the Swifties are mad I like this I think the I think the it's fucked up the Swifties literally they've done one football season they've won a Super Bowl yeah I'm gonna stop right here she exudes excellence I did see and it's i i think the he was gonna retire if you didn't have a podcast it's a funny oh ridiculous narrative but yeah laugh yeah that is funny okay good job oh cool throne my cool throne celtics nba i saw this quote celtics had there was a bunch of quotes it was media day uh i was just you have to say the jalen brown quote taking it all in which what the jalen brown pistons won jalen Brown said about the Pistons we're going to play through Peyton let him go for 30, play through Sam let him shoot 10 threes tonight we're going to still win the game that is the most disrespectful thing you can say about another team just being like yeah our offense is going through Peyton Pritchard tonight we're just a stack team, they a deep team uh they did all the you know the pictures with the the olympics guys jason tatum was more you know up front being like yeah it pissed me off that i didn't play i was mad uh he basically said he's like no one was happier about the olympics than joe missoula because he kind of knew that that he was going to be able to use that as motivation of course uh they asked missoula if he enjoyed celebrating the summer as a champion he said i

didn't really enjoy the summer i enjoyed the parade which i can agree with the parade was

great as a highlight of his summer yeah me too spending time with hank um but yeah it's just

great it's great uh you know when your team's coming off a championship and and it's it's

gearing back up you get the i can't wait for that i don't really have the excitement of a

championship potential team with the with the patriots but it's good that celtics are back

how was uh tatum zora it was great he's got some new shoes that are released i was gonna

I don't know. really have the excitement of a championship potential team with the with the patriots but it's good that celtics are back how was uh tatum zora it was great he's got some new shoes that are released i was gonna i was gonna ask you about the shoes the mvp all-star mvp uh tattoo he also did she got a tattoo of himself oh like that's really kissing the trophy big time or steve-o uh i was gonna ask you about the.
The shoes are so sick. I'll be getting a pair.

Okay.

These shoes suck. Hank, we had a picture pulled up.
There's also one that's way more green and blue. Yeah, that one.
Fire. PFT.
No, Hank, the way I would talk about these shoes is by saying they look like a pair of shoes that I would wear. Correct.
The way you were about to say that, Hank, was crazy. Yeah, that's a that's that's that's the PFT comes in with like purple shorts.

Yeah.

Uh,

T. The way you were about to say that, Hank, was crazy.
PFT comes in with purple shorts, a t-shirt that doesn't match the purple shorts, a brown t-shirt, and those shoes. If they send them to PFT for free, he'll wear them.
That's his barometer of what he wears. Those are exactly the type of shoes I would wear.
Yeah. That's not good.
Yeah. They're hotank thanks uh pft all right so great job i don't know if i can follow that up hank had two hot seats he was on fire uh my my hot seat is penn state students oh because you got called out twice by bert b limo coach of illinois four and oh illinois four and oh Illinois.
Ranked Illinois. Ranked Illinois.
They won the tie against Nebraska last week. Burt said that Nebraska is a tougher environment than Penn State, than Happy Valley, and then he doubled down on it by saying that they're going to be doing a whiteout, and he said bringing the whiteout energy, whatever the hell that means.
Oh. So he's fired up.
Well, James Franklin said that. James Franklin in his postgame said that I need the whiteout energy.
I need the whiteout energy. Yeah, but then.
What is Brett doing? Yeah, I mean, they're also 17.5 point dogs. Yeah.
But then he said, whatever the hell that means. Well, I mean, that's just what James Franklin said.
He was just like. James Franklin said at his postgame press conference he was like next week's a big game I need the fans to come out I need what I need whiteout energy does mean that they're gonna cover up their mistakes that is a Penn State thing no you see in college football Penn State has this tradition where they do the whiteout one game a year all this the whole stadium is white I It's like a really big thing in college football.
I'm well aware of the whiteout, Max.

We've discussed it on this show.

How you guys burn your whiteouts on lame games.

Minnesota last year.

That's Fox's fault.

Big 10.

Fucking Big 10 kickoff is.

Big noon kickoff is bullshit.

Okay.

So, but.

You have to do the.

Yeah.

I guess he's kicking the hornet's nest.

We'll see what happens.

No.

I will.

Yeah.

What? You want to finish that? If Penn State loses, you'll shove a burrito up your ass? No. Want to finish that sentence? If Penn State loses, you have to tear a statue down somewhere.
What? No. No, I'm not saying any of this.
I'm not... I'm not really...
That's your answer. I'd be worried about that right now.
Then my cool throw is just lists in general because with the Diddy stuff coming out. Oh, Hank's been deep in it.
Yeah, Hank is really, really deep into it. Would you ask me, like, do I think Tom Hanks is involved? No, he said, no, his direct quote was, what are your thoughts on Tom Hanks, PFT? Yeah, I don't know.
He's a good actor. Forrest Gump rocked.
That's pretty much the start. Oh, Captain Phillips was good, too.
Actually, he's been in a lot of good stuff. But there's some speculation that there's going to be lists coming out about- They never come out, though.
Who is at the freak parties. The lists never come out.
They never come out. They tell you that there's a list, and it's a distraction so that you can come up with your own fan fiction lore universe that you make up, and you're like, here's who's going to be on this list.
There'll be some fake lists that come out that look like real lists. I think there's already been some fake lists that come out.
But yeah, there's some weird stuff. And what's crazy about the Diddy thing is you can go back and watch Diddy admitting to be a weirdo in real time, and everybody was just like, yeah, Diddy's kind of crazy.
It's crazy that everyone knew this i i feel like i was the last to know yeah i had no idea you think we'd know about biggie what he might have killed biggie i heard that oh no is that your theory streets are saying um yeah i don't think the list will ever come out they never do but they love they love making you think that there's a list yes that's to come out. Yes.
Also, other celebrities have been coming out denouncing P. Diddy.
I denounced him as well. I denounced P.
Diddy. This podcast denounces Hank.
I think Neo came out with something that was like, I had nothing to do with P. Diddy or any of his parties.
Yeah. Kind of a weird thing.
It makes you think that. Meek Mill, the funniest Meek Mill who's like yeah he's going through it he's he's in a million pictures videos like he's definitely in was in p diddy circle tweeted like i'll pay a hundred grand if someone can figure out why i'm always getting brought up with the p diddy stuff it's like yeah i would like to defend our for five years i would like to defend maybe this is a mistake but our our there's that one video that's going around where did he does a cheers with jay-z and a bunch of people and leonard furnett somehow in it that's always makes me laugh playoff lenny uh i'm gonna back playoff lenny yeah yeah until proven otherwise until proven otherwise yep he's our friend and also meek mill is a rock nation brunch not a diddy party oh there we go boom back playoff lenny and for the record meek mill is 100 straight his quote when i got a girl around me i'm fucking her twice a day oh hell yeah ask some of your favorites pussy don't control me but it's like a high one love to the gay people but that juicy pussy do it for me i done ran red lights to get that feeling y'all weird on here hell yes so suck on that one haters that is sick that's the straightest thing you could ever say that's so sick that's reminds me of the old diplo tweet doing doing girls is cool but doing work lasts way longer more fulfilling I like that yeah doing girls you remember when Mike Piazza had a press conference to announce that he was straight yep that was funny that funny.
That was funny. All right.
My hot seat is anyone who's ever bashed Dylan Rayola because I'm all the way in on him now. He's got a brother who committed to Nebraska, Dayton Rayola, and he looks like Jackson Mahomes.
Are you serious? In this one picture, he looks like Jackson Mahomes, PFT, and now it's the funniest thing I've ever fucking seen. I'm all in on these guys.
That's what I was wondering. When he dropped the Jackson Mahomes, I'm like, fuck yes.
It went from this is weird to I'm all in. I'm sorry for everything I've said.
If this guy can start doing it, if Dayton Real can start doing TikToks and looking more and more like Jackson Mahomes, it is one of the funniest things that's going on the internet. So I wonder if Dylan is making his brother participate in his fantasy world and telling him like how to dress.
You have to look like this guy or if it's just natural. It could definitely be.
That would be so funny. Yeah.
I'm all the way in. All the way in.
And then my cool throne is. Don't let Mr.
Rayola drive a car. That's all I'll say.
Yes. That's true.
Dominic is his name. He played in the NFL, and he was a fucking mean, mean guy.

Player, that is. Center.
My cool thrones memes. Memes, you're on my cool thrones.
Because Rodgers, you see Rodgers on McAfee. He said that Hassan, the report that there was chaos in the locker room for the Jets before the season was from Hassan Reddick's agent, which now makes more sense.
So that was just never a true story. Hassan Reddick's agent basically planted that to try to create chaos.
And I even saw there was a guy who said when it first came out, he just, a random Jets fan said, shut up, bitch. And then at Torrey Dandy, the guy's the agent's name, and then the agent blocked him right away.
So that's proven guilty in the court of the internet. So no problem.
No, it was Son Reddick's agent. No problem.
Aaron Rodgers also might delete that ex-agent. Fired.
Oh, he did?

That's what Aaron Rogers said.

That was the exact quote.

He said ex-agent.

He's just like, probably, he said former agent.

Oh, so you might be back.

Might be all the way back.

Oh, you're double cool thrown.

So people think Aaron Rogers might have leaked that and stuff's going on behind the scenes,

but nobody's actually reported anything.

Shout out to Hassan Reddick because it sounds like he's a very loyal guy. His agent was costing him millions of dollars for not playing, and he didn't fire him until right now.
It feels like his agent was like, I know what we'll do. We'll say the locker room is bad, and they'll give you all the money.
That'll be good. This will definitely work.
My master plan. My genius plan.
Okay, should we get to our interview? Great interview. Michael Silver in studio with his new book talking about football.
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Find all one bars at a retailer near you or on Amazon dot com. OK, we now welcome on a very special guest in studio.
It is accomplished NFL writer, Big J journalist, Mike Silver, Michael Silver. Drinking buddy.
Drinking buddy. There's some questions we got to get to about Hugh Jackson, but let's talk about your new book, which is called The Why Is Everything? A Story of Football Rivalry and Revolution.
It's out on hardcover October 1st. I'm going to buy it on Kindle.
Just so you know, I just want to get that out there. I know it's a little cheaper on Kindle, but that's how I consume books.
I just wanted to let that out there. I think any way you want to consume, as we established the first night we met, any consumption, we're not judging.
Audiobooks, that's fine. Now, can you say, I read a book when you listen to the book? It's like the reporter trick where you say, I talked to Jared Goff, but really we texted.
Sometimes I'll go, well, we've communicated or Jared Goff said, but I think I talked to is kind of skewing it so i think you just go that book was great i i loved i enjoyed that book yeah i enjoyed it all right so the why is everything is the name of the book so let's start with the why why did you decide to write this book well um you know there's you gotta i'm old so go back to me covering the 49ers as a young beat writer mike shanahan showed up as george seaford's offensive coordinator really trying to resurrect his career what year was this 1992 and he'd been fired by al davis ingloriously after a couple years as a young head coach. He'd been fired by Dan Reeves in Denver and accused of insubordination.
Basically, he and John Elway, Dan Reeves charged, had gone behind the head coach's back. It was kind of this big scandal.
So he was a broken man. And meanwhile, Joe Montana hurts his elbow.
Steve Young's there. And even though the rest of the country is like, God, this guy's an incredible quarterback, everyone in San Francisco is like, he's not Joe.
He runs too much. He doesn't read defenses.
It's a mess. He literally won the passing title, and fans would be like, get rid of him.
He stinks. And Mike Shanahan kind of taught Steve Young that offense in a way that changed Steve Young's career, changed Mike Shanahan's career, and vaulted Mike Shanahan to the head coaching job in Denver, where he took that Bill Walsh offense and did outside zone.
Now you have the modern Shanahan offense. And so then we pick up in Washington.

And I've always been fascinated by that coaching staff in the early 2010s with Mike Shanahan. And no one in football history is going to look back and go, wow, the early 2010 Redskins.
What an incredible run. We had 10 weeks with RG3 that were pretty good.
Thank you. But but in the football community that's always been this mind-blowing thing what they did they took a guy who had no pro style experience or link to it in rg3 they took their existing offense and morphed it into a pistol uh on the fly and caught everybody off guard.
I mean, you remember, you know, they gained a third of their passing yards that season on one play called drift, where he like fakes a handoff, turns, kind of throws blindly over where the linebackers would be. But the linebackers have come up and he, you know, he was the rookie of the year, not Andrew Luck, not Russell Wilson.
It was revelatory. So yes, the dysfunction of the Redskins ultimately took that staff down and Mike Shanahan down, but it was seismic.
And so the five people on the cover are Kyle Shanahan, who was the office coordinator, and fellow assistants Sean McVay, Matt LaFleur, Mike McDaniel, and Raheem Morris. And obviously they are now all in very prominent positions.
So that's the jumping off point kind of. But then you get all the petty and the rivalry and the dysfunction and the love occasionally.
And you know these guys. I've known these guys for so long uh and i've been around it and been out drinking with them and heard all of their various idiosyncratic ways of looking at things that i've just always felt like something's going on here they're doing it a different way that what they did with rg3 to instead of just say this is our system system and we're going to run it, but just deconstruct and kind of think in an abstract way really goes against the tenets of old school meathead football, which really permeated the NFL for so long, which was, we do it because it works.
It's what Bill Walsh did. And why do we call it the flanker? I don't know that's what bill walsh called it and and why do we call it the flanker i don't know

that's what bill walsh called it you know yeah uh so they ask why a lot and then they want to be able to explain why to their players constantly so yeah i mean it's interesting because this this book basically is uh why the nfl is the way it is today because it's you know uh whatever is, a quarter, 15% of the head coaches all are part of this system and everything that's come off of it. And really more because Kevin O'Connell, Zach Taylor, Robert Sala, you know, I mean, you really could make a case that's like a third.
Yeah, the coaching tree is crazy. D'Amico Ryan, although on the defensive side.
Yeah, D'Amico Ryan and Bobby Sloick. Bobby Sloick.
He was on that staff too, wasn't he? He was. Shane Waldron.
That's great. Yeah, Shane Waldron.
Probably a rough start for Shane Waldron this year, but I think he's a shrewd guy who will figure it out. Yeah, it does feel like NFL offenses changed so much that year, and it rippled across the league, like you said.
I don't think that we've had an offensive innovation that's been that pronounced since 2012, have we? No. You know, the innovation off that immediately was McVay kind of speeding it up and then going, you know, 11 personnel and using the receivers as blockers on the outside.
But they've had to innovate from that. And it really was a way of thinking, though, that has now permeated the NFL more, which is instead of we have always done it this way, it's let's make everything, let's just deconstruct everything and be willing to innovate and be creative from a new starting out point.
And the willingness to do that is definitely new. Yeah, amongst these guys, let's get to some of the juicy stuff.
Amongst these guys in this room, it seems like it was a very collaborative effort, and they all root for each other. I know they've done podcasts together.
They've done media together. At the time, were there any rivalries between these two, or was it all just like, okay, let's work towards this common goal? Well, first of all, there's a chapter in there called Enemy Friends, which is how Raheem Morris describes Kyle and Sean, and enemy first for a reason.
Like, they're friends, but they definitely have – there's an edge to it. There was a big falling out with Kyle and Matt LaFleur that I get into that is an incredible story that is centered around the drama leading into that draft, the night of the draft when they took Trey Lance.
One of the, Zach Wilson two, Trey Lance three, anyway. But yeah, you know, in Washington, I kind of liken it to, like, you know, I'm a Northern Californian.
Imagine like Silicon Valley in the early days and you've got, you know, Steve Jobs and Andy Grove and all these visionaries at one company, young, kind of hustling, all rushing. Hey, what if, what if we try this? Nah, I got this idea where it was encouraged to make these suggestions and they'd kind of all run to kyle sh and he'd decide what to use and what not to use.
So it was a collaboration and kind of a healthy competition back then. It's fascinating because these are always, like just going back to coaching staffs when you had, I think the other one is like the Packers in the 90s when they had Gruden know when they had uh what gruden yeah and all these guys on the staff yeah and he read and just like going back in these time capsules along the nfl and you look at these coaching staff you're like holy shit yeah they had this type of brain power yeah that then goes out and spreads everywhere in the nfl what so my my curiosity about how we've evolved in the nfl is why did it take so long for everyone else to kind of catch up and be like, hey, these guys are really smart? Is it just an organization failure across the league where it's like we want to do the thing that's always been done and now this new age shit is kind of scary? It feels like we're there now where everyone's starting to think outside the box.
But there's a little bit of tension that goes along with anything new. Yeah, and they have flaws, right? Like Kyle Shanahan has a very brusque style that wasn't very conducive to bonding with players.
He's gotten a lot better. And so they were very sure of themselves and sure they were right and didn't really like you know uh hiding that right so that could be cool if it's working but the other element of this and i i know eric will be excited but uh the dysfunction seemed to find them right like uh you had them all at washington well enough said right uh dan snyder etc then kyle goes to cleveland uh you know talk about our hugh jackson association a lot of people have gotten caught up in that uh hellhole he famously fought his way out after a year and remember that was that was the Ray Farmer texting scandal.
The general manager was texting assistant coach Dalla Loggins to tell Kyle, among other things, you should play Johnny Madzel, right? So Kyle had Mike McDaniel write up a 32-point memo of reasons he should be let out of his contract. And it ultimately worked.
Holy shit. And so then he goes to Atlanta.
And after that first year with Matt Ryan in Atlanta, there's a question about whether he's going to get fired by the Falcons. They end up having this summit meeting in Southern California, which is described in the book.
And it's been called, Matt LaFleur called it our kumbaya sessions. Uh, somebody called it marriage counseling, but basically they're gathering, uh, at Tom house and Adam Dado's place.
And who's gathering? Uh, this is Matt Ryan, Kyle Shanahan, who are the two guys who need to work stuff out. Uh, Dan Quinn, uh, and Matt LaFleur, the quarterback coach with these two quarterback gurus, Tom House and Adam Dado, that Matt Ryan's working out with.
And famously, a few things were said, but at one point, Tom House is trying to describe Matt LaFleur's role as getting caught in the middle between Kyle Shanahan and Matt Ryan. And he says, Matt, you're the taint.
That's a good analogy, yeah. No one wants to be the taint.
Yeah. That's fascinating, though, like that tension that works, and then you get success out of it.
Because having that meeting, they get to the Super Bowl. Obviously, they were up 25 in the Super Bowl.
is that hard to do is that true it's hard to be up 25 they were winning the super bowl i heard you could say you could say that dan quinn is a super bowl winning head coach he was winning by 25 i heard it was 28 to 3 yeah yeah yes and they and they and matt ryan wins an mvp and that kind of launches kyle shanahan and then matt lafleleur right so that that that meeting obviously worked it really did uh and so yes eventually they have all ascended um and now they just fight it out amongst each other and try to keep their prodigies you know I mean look what the Saints are doing that's a Kubiak that's that's part of the tree as well yeah tree um but in washington that rg3 year even amid the rest of the league being kind of blown away and defense is not being able to stop it uh even so you'll remember the uh the cleveland game that year yep uh cousins rg3 gets hurt and now kirk, who they'd also drafted that year, which was the Kyle Shanahan, you know, favorite pick, has got to play in Cleveland. And they run a more traditional Shanahan offense game plan with a lot of boots, you know, the fake handoff and the rollout.
And Kirk Cousins goes wild in that game and they win. So now here's the postgame scene.
Dan Snyder barrels through the locker room, goes right past Kirk Cousins, who is having this glorious moment, almost steps on him to get to Robert Griffin and say, hey, don't worry, it's okay, you're still my guy. And Kirk is just standing there.
It's super awkward. While this is happening, RG2, Robert's father, who was very involved, has managed to somehow get in the locker room, and he's all over Mike Shanahan.
Man, why didn't you call any running plays? And Mike's like, he can run on those boots. He just chose to throw out.
We want to run those plays with Robert. And Robert comes back too early probably because he's threatened by that.
All in for year two. I remember that.
And so it gets, you know, we all, I think, you know, that playoff game where he ends up tearing up the knee and that's the beginning of the end was horrible. But in most people's minds, well, he'll get surgery and they'll come back and they'll build on this and it'll be amazing.
There's a scene in the book where Mike Shanahan, at the end of that season, because of how he feels about Robert, because he thinks Dan Snyder is so invested in believing

that Robert's really a pocket passer

and we're going to change him and we're going to show

and he's my guy.

Mike Shanahan ends up recommending to Dan Snyder,

Bruce Allen, the GM, and the other owners,

we should trade Robert now.

We know he's not really what people think he is the league's gonna catch up and it's not gonna work out the way you think his value is amazing we might get back the three ones we gave up and we can play with kirk and mike shanahan has it all figured out he's like this is the best idea ever it did not go over well. Yeah.
So in retrospect, that would have been a good play. That would have gotten a lot of people on their ass if they'd done that.
It seems insane to actually do something like that after you win rookie of the year, though. It would have been viewed as insane, including in fairness, even by me.
Right. You know, but but but those are the type of moves too

where you're thinking ahead where like a belichick was the famous for it like get get rid of guys a year early except instead of a year late and stay ahead of the curve here's another weird thing i you know peyton manning was free before that 2012 season coming off the next surgeries and Mike Shanahan absolutely

had interest

and Peyton was going to be in denver anyway meeting with the broncos so they set up a meeting at mike shanahan's house with mike and kyle and kyle who is a football nerd and thinks payton is you know the all-time best at the line of scrimmage the general you know he's so fired fired up so mike shanahan flies to the bahamas to meet with dan snyder presumably on his very small boat i'm sure it's tiny yeah so they're off on the boat kyle's in his office prepping for his you know meeting with peyton maddie he's so excited uh they both get in the air mike is flying to denver from the bahamas kyle is flying from dulles while they're in the air and this is pre good wi-fi uh bruce allen at dan snyder's behest trades with the rams way before the draft for all those picks so now we know they're picking rg3 right so kyle lands finds out about it he's like oh well there's obviously no meeting and mike says no no no we could still get peyton roberts for the future and so kyle preps peyton comes to the house he and kyle watch film for a couple hours they're totally vibing like this it's the greatest meeting ever kyle's so fired up peyton leaves and kyle says dad do you really think we still have a chance to get him and michael's no like we're drafting robert yeah so he just let kyle down easy yeah and uh so yeah history could have been way different there's just so many sliding doors moments for my happiness that we're we're going over right now yeah things could have been so different and then the and then the funny thing is you know 2013 is one of the all-time dysfunction junction seasons that was my first season at nfl network and i was doing thursday nights at halftime and then game day morning with ian rapaport we're you know we're doing uh i was being like his mort may he rest in peace for his Adam. And we were all over the redskin dysfunction.

And I remember laughing. I'm like, Dan Snyder's used to dealing with like Jim Zord.
He has no idea about the Mike Shanahan ability to navigate this feud. And so he ends up getting fired.
And Mike goes in for his exit meeting with the other owners. And he says, okay, I'm going to give you guys some advice.
Take it or leave it. You need to trade Kirk Cousins.
And they're like, huh? And he goes, there's no coach who's going to come in here and believe, ultimately, that Robert is better than Kirk Cousins. So trade him because it's going to be an issue.
It's going to be a problem. That's fascinating.
So are you surprised that Mike Shanahan never got another job? Because it does feel like he's such an innovator and such an accomplished coach that you'd think a team would want him. I remember even, I think it was 2015-ish.
16 maybe? 15 or 16 when the Bears hired John Fox. He was a name that was being thrown around and it's like why is this guy who knows so much about football who has all this incredible resume, why has he not gotten another job? Yeah, I agree with you.
He did talk to the Raiders of all teams at one point post Al and the Niners. He should be in the Hall of Fame right now.

There's no question.

I hope this book helps make that case.

He, there is something at 49er headquarters

referred to as the Shanna Cam,

which basically means Mike Shanahan needs to watch meetings

and practice ASAP virtually.

That's awesome.

So he's, some people think he's the shadow GM. I think that's an exaggeration, but this is incredible.
So because I was doing this book full force, I spent a bunch of time with him in May and June of 2022. And so in those conversations, I would ask about Trey Lance, of course, and Jimmy, and he kept talking about Brock Purdy because he'd seen some minicamp tape.
And I was like, God, he's kind of weirdly into Brock Purdy. But, you know, whatever.
He's the 262nd pick. Now they open against the Bears.
It's Trey Lance's first game as the unquestioned starter. The day before, I go to Mike Shanahan's room.
And i'm sitting up there and i'm asking him about trey lance and he again brings up purdy and he says when you have a guy like that in your building you don't let him out and i'm like are we talking about you know thinking yeah and you know uh so he's still got it yeah this is why i'm saying like how is he, how is he not? Like, Brock Purdy is a guy who it took him going to a Super Bowl for everyone to be like, okay, maybe he's actually really good. And Mike Shanahan, before he even takes a snap at the NFL, is like, this guy is going to be good.
And in fairness, even Kyle, who's great at this, didn't really know what he was. Obviously, I don't know if Mike thought all this before the draft to this degree, but when I was seeing him, he'd seen a few of the OTA tapes, and he was just like, I don't know.
And then meeting the kid, he's just, for all the, he looks like he's going to class at Iowa State, right, with the backpack. And he's very polite and very personable.
I don't know if you you guys have met him yet we haven't yeah i think i think you'll really like him uh but he's a he's a stone cold killer too that's fascinating so why hasn't a team hired mike shannon as a gm i i think that's also i i i think if you know i i'm in the rare position where i have receipts. I have this tape.

He's talking about Brock Purdy in June of 2022.

Like he's, you know, an elite NFL starting quarterback.

That's incredible.

It also sounds like, I mean, his son's the head coach.

It'd be hard to hire him as a GM for another team.

Like the 49ers essentially got just a great asset that's going to work for free for him.

What if like the Harbaugh's, you know, like and shanahan's somehow you know all got crossed up i think i think the harbaugh's would murder them if there was like an actual like family rivalry yeah i'd take jim harbaugh over any of those guys yeah yeah i think uh you know it would be hard for me to imagine um a less tense atmosphere than a Harbaugh family versus any other family competition in anything. True alphas.
Yeah. So you spent a lot of time around the league.
I know that you were around New Orleans. You knew what was going on during Bounty Gate.
And I feel like that's something that we don't talk about enough anymore. It's kind of been, hasn't been forgotten, but we don't talk about it as much as we used to besides the Kevin James movie.
So what was your knowledge of Bounty Gate as it happened and how it came out and all that aftermath? Well, I did get caught up in it. And it's funny because this story is going to ultimately lead to Jeff Fisher, who I know we share an affinity for.
Yes. And before I was too close to Hughugh jackson i was also too close to jeff fisher okay who also got turned into a cartoon character by america yeah and uh so it's 2012 greg williams has already left to go to the rams as the st louis rams as their new defensive coordinator a couple years removed from the Super Bowl.
Sean Payton has been suspended along with Greg Williams and others because the NFL has decided that they have evidence that the Saints allegedly, I would say allegedly based on the evidence now, you know, we're paying players explicitly to inj injure opponents and this is as the concussion lawsuits going on and the nfl is looking for a way desperately to say man we care about health and safety right they had some other issues with sean payton uh great stories that don't have to do with that so it was already weird it's also tom benson i think you could do that to tom benson easier than you could do it to robert craft or jerry jones right easy owner to pick on uh so champagne gets suspended for a year while this is all going on i uh learn of the existence of this audio tape that uh documentary filmmaker sean pamphelon had in his possession He was working at the time with Steve Gleason on what ultimately became a documentary because he'd been diagnosed with ALS, a former Saints player. Steve Gleason was a guest of the team in this meeting before a playoff game against the 49ers in 2011, 2011 season.
And Greg Williams is caught on audio tapes saying things like kill the head and the body will die and greg williams is one of those guys that if you take him literally i i relate if you take it if you take him literally it doesn't go well right he's very over the top right he says things for effect um but he did seem to according to pamphlet be literal in that he made the money sign with his hands at one point like i got the first one meaning i'll pay that fine yeah which would cross the line so um it was the smoking gun the nfl felt it needed to show the world see this is a this is out of control in new or Orleans. I get ready to write this blockbuster story for Yahoo Sports.
Unfortunately, I had just finished with Jeff Fisher in Indy at the Combine asking and receiving permission to be in the Rams War Room in the upcoming draft, which is a big get, you know, for Yahoo and me. And I'm all excited.
And now Jeff Fisher's defensive coordinator is going to be even more, you know, disciplined because there was a chance that suspension was going to get reduced. I'll never forget.
So when Jeff called me back, I had to tell him what was going on. He just goes, how bad? And I go, well, given that it's Greg, it's about as bad as you can imagine.
So at that point, I just assumed that if not Jeff, his owner or somebody would say to him, we're not letting that guy in our draft room. He just ruined our life even more.
But amazingly, Jeff calls and says, when are you coming out? He said, why don't we have dinner the night before? So now we're outdoors in Clayton, Missouri, having dinner, drinking wine. He's telling me about what they're going to try to do in the draft.
By the way, that was the Michael Brockers, Brian Quick draft, where they got too cute. I was there, tried to, wanted Bobby Wagner, but thought, let's get him with the second of our two picks in this round because we want to get Isaiah Peed, the immortal running back, and then lost Bobby Wagner to the Seahawks.
so Jeff says to me with a twinkle in his eye you know I want you in the room

but I also want you to have a workstation

and for times where we really

need to have a sensitive conversation

to kick you out, I do have a vacant office. And literally, I set up shop for three days in Greg Williams' vacant office somehow after breaking the kill to head body.
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So back to Bounty Gate, though, the smoking gun that you said. In a team meeting, he said, kill the head, the snake will die, or whatever, the body will die.
And then he says, I got the first one. Does the money sign implying I'll pay for your fine if you hit the quarterback too hard? Yes.
I think almost every defensive coordinator around the league has said and done stuff like that in meetings at least at the time maybe they've been more careful since then so what was it about greg williams in particular that made the nfl target the saints um i think it was sean payton um there had been another scandal that had quietly gone away because of the arbitration clause that

kept it from being public. But there was a scandal that involved missing pills at the Saints facility.
Vicodin, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. But there were a lot of pills missing, and there was some word or accusation that Sean Payton had been involved in that and trying to cover that up.
I think there was a general feeling that Roger Goodell believed these guys are out of control. And Sean, who I love, was Bill Parcell's train.
So there

was the secrecy and the kind of the weirdness in general. Again, it was Tom Benson, someone you

could make an example of. There was another incident during one of the London games at

Wembley where they did a walkthrough the day before and the security people told Sean Payton, you guys are going to come out before the game, and you guys are going to go through this tunnel. And you know how NFL coaches are.
It's gospel. That is the tunnel.
We were told. And on game day, when they tried to go through the assigned tunnel, it had been changed, and they really wanted Sean to go a different way, and he didn't want to.
And I believe the story goes that he just kind of pushed through a security official, may have been a British security official. Um, you know, not like he beat him up, but it got a little physical and, uh, that got back to Roger.
And I think that was another instance where he was like this guy um so again um it's disturbing to me in that they did a you know they kind of did a muller report independent commission thing um you know to try to prove that they had it and they used paul tagliaboo of all people the former commissioner who was a lawyer and the report was not real uh you know friendly to the nfl it was kind of like yeah there's this there's this audio from a game where somebody was it bobby mccrave somebody allegedly says uh give me my money bobby but it's not really clear that that's exactly what he said it was flimsy evidence at best or that he said it so it's a witch hunt um it could if you're a saints fan you go they had it out for our team and again there were some other reasons that might have been true if you're a cynic like me who then went to work for the nfl but if you're a cynic like me, you say they were looking at an existential threat

with the head trauma,

which they were culpable for.

They had to beat their chest and show the world.

Yeah.

We care about safety.

Let's do 17 games,

but we care about safety.

That's right.

Yeah, let's play in random stadiums across the world

that are not good playing surfaces.

Yeah, right.

We care about safety.

Oh, World Cup we're hosting? FIFA needs grass yeah oh yes fifa yeah we'll change it to grass right oh uh nfl guys think nah sorry yeah yeah so you were talking about that rams war room i don't think about this guy at all but it sounds like uh that's the same draft that they drafted michael sam no i i actually repeatedly got in the rams war room Rams war room because I was a friend of the coach. You're such a good guest.
Yeah, I was a guest. So now at NFL Network, NFL.com, I was there the year they took Michael Sam.
So they had two picks at the end of the seventh round. And so Michael Sam had been the SEC defensive player of of the Year.
So to a casual fan or to someone like me even, it was like, well, that guy's going to get drafted. He's an edge rusher who was the Defensive Player of the Year in the best conference.
But scouts didn't love him for football reasons. And so he was also openly gay the nfl had never had an openly gay player and things have changed a lot but at the time that felt super heavy so um jeff fisher uh is on the phone as their picks are coming in the seventh round and he kind of looks a little serious and he hangs up but he stands up and the rams have one of those war rooms that everybody's in like the patriots it would be like bill belichick you know scott puoli and only two other people maybe we'll let the running backs coach come in for five minutes yeah but the rams are like it's the scouts it's the it's ownership It's the, all the front office people and people and me and so um jeff tells the room with pick 240 whatever we are taking michael sam from missouri and people kind of get chills because it's history and at that point you're pretty far ahead of the telecast so we have a few minutes to kind of be the only ones who know, like, this is going to be cool.
And it's historic. And we're waiting and waiting.
And the pic gets officially turned in. So now we know it's happening for sure.
We're waiting and waiting. And then the pic is made.
And it's kind of like everybody's just kind of looking at each other like, we were there. It's pretty cool.
Well, then they cut to, they had cameras on Michael Sam at his house. I don't know if you remember this, but Michael and his boyfriend at the time, I think his name was Vito, celebrated the moment.
And there was like a cake smushed face licking off of fingers situation going on. And it definitely changed the vibe in the Ram War Room, not judging in like a homophobic way as much as just, yeah, that's not very football.
Right. And it just kind of freaked people out.
And I don't want to, I'm not even sure of the person who said it, and I don't want to ID him uh but one person broke the tension by saying something to the effect of damn usually you got to be in the league a minute before you start getting the white bitches what a story oh man um all right so I got a big football question for you. Someone once told me, and it's stuck with me ever since, that in the NFL there are a handful of teams that are actively trying to win a Super Bowl, organizations that are actively trying to win a Super Bowl, doing the right things, investing in the team, and then there's like 20 organizations that basically are saying, hey, if we catch lightning in a but otherwise we're just going to print money is that a fair accurate thing to say yeah and it's been a thing and so it's weird because for all my lefty berkeley you know grateful debt all all my heritage i'm super free market on the nfl like i'm adam smith right and i used to call these old owners pull it barrel bosses because they would take they'd sit stand in their bread line and they would take their guaranteed tv revenue which guarantees you a profit and the NFL has like a lot of communist like sensibilities worse shall be first the draft the schedule uh the salary cap they control.
They share all the revenue. And so there was not a lot of incentive back in the day to market.
And the Bears are traditionally under-marketed. The Chicago Bears.
The Raiders just were like, why would we market? Where are the Raiders? The Bengals still don't. And so Eddie DiBartolo, Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft ended up being the new guard of owners who got it a lot more entrepreneurial and started hustling.
And there was this famous owner meeting where Jerry Jones says to Mike Brown, I'm so touched that you want to name your stadium after your late father that's really awesome but because you won't take a naming rights deal i have to subsidize you yeah on this revenue sharing thing right and so i tend to be on the side of those uh more aggressive owners yeah so yes um they're all you know you would think in such a highly competitive industry everyone wants to win desperately there's some guys who want to win desperately but they don't know how and they sabotage like dan snyder david tepper right yeah but then there's some people who are just like acting like they want to win because every once in a while they will yeah they get they catch oh we got lucky with this quarterback or this random year. And then we'll just have everyone live off that for the next 10, 20 years.
Right. So if you're a fan, you want your owner to, and I did owner rankings at si.com and yahoo.com for years and years.
And what I really valued the most was aggressive pursuit of revenue and aggressive spending to try to get wins and and so dan snyder having players on his helicopter is well intentioned but it screws the authority of the coach and right messes it up uh but you know uh if you have the best facilities if you pay your assistant coach coaches well, if you are... Scouting department, all those things where it's like there just seems to be a lot of organizations, and I'm probably speaking about the team I root for here very much so, where it's frustrating knowing the further we've gotten into this job, the more we've seen it.
It's frustrating to know that a lot of these organizations just don't give a fuck and they just they they honestly are fine you know every five years ripping off 10 wins and being like that was cool i don't believe that there is a more under marketed entity in american commerce than the chicago bears i mean the chicago bears and I don't know if people know like in this city the bulls had that yeah but it's a football town cubs or the cubs but it's a football town it is and and when the bears it you know in 85 and like that was it was just it it engulfed everything and they've been living off it since yeah you know and it's that lightning in a bottle where it's like hey we we aren't going to do all the steps we'll do a couple of the steps here and there and if we're good for a couple years oh awesome but then it never is sustainable the sustainable greatness of some of these organizations because like yeah okay the cowboys have not won a super bowl since the 90s they've still been in the mix yeah pretty much every year yeah so and it's hard to win championships but like being in the mix and actively trying to win playoff games matters I'm for the I've been a Jerry ride or die for so long but I'm starting to wonder now like I know he's always told me this is all I care about I just want to win but like his actions the last few years you know he could have got Sean Payton well this is the weird part We talk about this a lot on the show about Jerry Jones. Because of how he dealt with his coaches in the 90s, we think he's one way.
He kept Jason Garrett for way too long. So he actually is weirdly one of those way too loyal, I don't want to change guys.
Yeah, or I don't want to pay guys not to coach. But we think about the 90s and we think about Jimmy Johnson.
We're like, oh, he'll get rid of a guy in a second if he has a problem with him. I mean, I feel like there have been two inflection points that he could have had Sean Payton.
And he knows. Yeah.
He knows Sean Payton would have, you know, in his mind would have been the guy. He didn't do it.
And then is there anyone on earth that, you know, with respect to Mike McCarthy, who's done a lot of good things in this league after the first quarter and a half of that playoff game because the packers is there anyone reasonable on earth who would have been like man jerry jones fired mike mccarthy and tried to get mike vrabel or yeah right belichick like no one would have said wow jerry jones is yeah he didn't give him enough time yeah right that would have made perfect sense so why do you think that is? Why do you think that Jerry chose to remain loyal to McCartney?

Especially when you say the name Belichick.

Belichick being out there seems like it would have been the ultimate Jerry Jones move, right?

So why do you think he remained loyal to him?

It's a great question.

I need to have a longer conversation with Jerry,

preferably with him buying the red wine, which he tends to do, and he's, he has a little bit more fleshed out tastes than I do. Um, but it just makes me think that he has changed because the Jerry I've always known and defended on this, of course, but you're right.
You know, you're right in the Jason Garrett thing. He let that go a long time.
Way too long. And Wade.
Yeah, and Wade. Yeah, right.
So he kind of has become one of those owners that's like, I like what I like, and I'm not going to rock the boat. And also, I don't want to pay.
Right. And I always have said to Jerry, you do better with powerful coaches.
Everyone thinks Jerry wants to walk all over people, but the best, you know, even Switzer had some juice, Jimmy, Barry and Parcells, which was a total clash. I have a great story on that one.
Uh, but Jerry did better when strong people were in charge. Uh, there's a story where, uh, you know how Parcells was, you you know wanted to run everything and the cowboys are flying out to play the patriots and they're staying either in providence or closer to providence uh than boston and so of course the assumption is the plane is flying to providence and the buses will be there and they'll go to the hotel.
And late in the flight, it becomes clear to Parcells that they're going to Boston, which makes no logistical sense until he learns that the Joneses have dinner plans with the crafts and they don't want to go from Providence. They're not taking a bus.
So the plane's going to land in Boston. And Bill, who cared a lot about such things, went up and kind of let Jerry have it.
And Jerry smiled and said, I think the quote was, Well, Bill, when you buy your own team, you can have the plane go where you want it to go. I love it.
There is a certain type of billionaire. And I think that there are owners in the nfl that are definitely doing things the right way but those middling franchises and some of the bad ones there's some owners that are they're super competitive but that doesn't translate to what they actually the steps that you have to take to winning football games they take more pleasure in like the petty stuff like like getting small victories over the other owners like if they find there's another owner that really likes this coffee shop they're gonna do everything they can to like have that coffee shop next to their house closed down you know the billionaires are absolutely petty as we've seen i'm you know what guys i'm thinking i might you know i i let go of owner rankings because they hired me yeah i'd like to see it yeah should we bring it yeah yeah i would yeah because it is fascinating and it also is a

really good for fit from a fan perspective it's a really good way to see where you you land i got i got the greatest feedback because you know there were people in buffalo who said if you come to the city i will fight you in defense of ralph wilson i'm like really yeah that's why you're gonna fight me but the best were you know you ranked Bill Bidwell number 30 in your owner rankings I defy you to name two owners that are better or that are worse than Bill Bidwell there's no way he shouldn't be 32 yeah and but yeah lots of arguments and but these are good things like It's like the blind poll that has started about the facilities.

It shines light on it where teams are being –

that's kind of an ownership ranking in its own right

where it's like, hey, here's where they're cheaping out.

That's good stuff.

Fans should know if their owner is not doing everything to win.

Yes, and what I liked is that I got very personal and punitive,

and so these people are not used to being criticized right it's one

thing if i you know kyle shanahan's gonna read stuff in this book and want to strangle me perhaps but kyle shanahan is used to as am i and you and you we're all used to being kind of criticized right you know brutally right so i think we tend to be able to filter that but like I don't think like you know mike brown yeah was used to that who by the way has done ownership rights to naming rights well he's done naming rights to his stadium because he had to pay joe burrow i i will give this to mike brown everyone else would have fired zach taylor after year two yeah and because he's cheap or has a philosophy i'm lucky because he's cheap yeah and but but in that case they got to the super bowl and almost won it yeah sometimes not firing a coach is the best thing that you can do correct back to that washington dc stuff yeah so if you were to do your your ownership power rankings right now do you know who the top five would be that's a great question i should have prepped on that um you know i i think that uh i am a big believer that the crafts are great owners um but you know they're in a weird kind of position i'm heartened by the way the patriots are playing actually yeah yeah um they're playing harder than i thought and you know it looks kind of cooler so far but uh yeah i'd have to i'd really have to deconstruct and take a look because in most of them the crafts and the joneses were kind of right there jeffrey lorry at the time jeffrey lorry would be very very high green bay um yeah yeah green bay is weird because um and you know they're gonna change ceos coming up so that's interesting with the hunts or they just got lucky because they got patrick mahomes and andy reid because that the blind pole is very interesting that the facilities there murders them. Gets killed and you're like, dude, you're Patrick Mahomes.
You should do whatever he wants to make his life great. My favorite story with the Hunts was I'm out with Derek Thomas, the late great Hall of Fame ad rusher, who was one of the great social animals in NFL history in an era where it was different and we didn't have cell phone cameras.
And, you know, I also, they didn't have to stay in hotels the night before home games. Marty Schottenheimer didn't make them.
So we even had some Saturday nights. I love it.
Watch the Tupac Bruce Selden fight at his house the night before a game,

not Tupac, excuse me, the Mike Tyson Bruce Selden fight the night Tupac was shot at his house with one of my buddies, one of his buddies and kid from kid and play of house party fame who was on fire with the commentary, but Derek and I were early on. He was this big JFK conspiracy buff.
And it stemmed because his father had been a fighter pilot who was shot down in Vietnam and killed. And so Derek's whole belief was that the war continued because JFK was assassinated to continue the Vietnam War leading to the death of my father.
And so he was very, very down the rabbit hole on that. And he started talking about some of the theories publicly.
And I finally went and researched it. And I'm like, Lamar Hunt, your owner, is like one of the people in this theory that would be like one of the people who put out the hit.
Yeah. Is that a little awkward? Yeah.
So we started having that conversation. That's awkward because I've seen owner player stuff like go really bad, like Tio with the pushups and all that, but that's a different level.
You might've, you might killed my father. Yeah, and a president.
Yeah, and a president. Yeah, that's wild.
So I also heard that you've, speaking to guys that you've spent a lot of time with, where they benefited from not having camera phones around. You hung out with Dennis Rodman in Vegas.
Well, I did a book with him. So there was this Sports Illust story i got there in uh in 1994 and in may of 95 when he was still with the spurs they were in a playoff series with the lakers i got sent down to la and a four day three night three state bender ensued and it was.
And I turned it into this cover story where he's got the bird on his shoulder and the metallic hot pass, this iconic SI cover that I wrote in real time at his house in San Antonio as he engaged in activities with a stripper while the birds were all, there were these wild birds squawking. So there was a lot of noise and I did manage to focus and write this story.
But yeah, I spent a lot of time with Dennis here, but that first night in LA when we went out, they eliminated the Lakers. I met him during the day at the shoot around.
Wasn't clear we were going to do anything. They eliminated the Lakers.
He immediately walked off the court and told me, let's go. We ended up at a club in West Hollywood with some celebrities.
I'm 29. He's 34.
And I'm like, well, I could drink with any 34 year old. I mean, I could drink.
Yeah, we know. So I was pouring out shots under the table like soon after it was Goldschlager and Jägermeister.
And he drank me under the table. But at one point, he took me outside.
And he started to talk about a lot of things, including Madonna, who was the most famous woman in the world. And he had been dating.
And he said very openly, she wanted to have my baby. The quote I think was, she has ways of making you feel like King Tut.
And so this, you know, Robin was basically, as we went to San Antonio, then Vegas, then tried to go to Phoenix to watch game seven of the other series courtside. But that got derailed.
We ended up back in San Antonio. And as all this is happening, I was just going to go home straight from Vegas.
I had so much good stuff and I was going to fly to Oakland. So we're having this kind of emotional goodbye at the airport.
And he looks at me as I'm walking away and he goes, bro, what are you doing? This is the great, like I'm giving you the greatest, like stay with me. And he was right.
And so I just turned around and went to his gate and talked my way out of that plane and went back to Texas. And it was before cell phones were really reliable and I had told my wife, hey, I'm coming home.
So when we got to Texas, I had to call her as dennis and i were walking to his truck and can you imagine the voice i was using you know yeah so honey you know and texas i get off the phone and he go oh bro who wears the pants in this family who wears the pants okay well story comes out uh no story doesn't come out filed. I fly home.
They open against the Rockets Monday.

In San Antonio, I believe.

Maybe in Houston.

No, it's in San Antonio.

And I'm still exhausted.

The story's been fact-checked.

It's not coming out until Wednesday, but it closes Monday night.

And I'm just getting

ready to watch the game and i get a call like an hour and 15 minutes before the game he's like bro and i'm like uh what are you doing are you at the arena no bro i'm at home and he goes you gotta do something for me and i go what he goes bro you gotta take that madonna shit out of there and i go, who wears

the pants?

That's beautiful.

And then literally he had me he three-way called and he was gonna have me talk to Madonna and explain to her that he really you know he also said some nice things yeah oh she's gonna she's gonna kill me so I'm laughing and it goes to answering machine not voicemail answering machine and you know it's like hey it's em i'm not here leave a message and then here's me you know leaving a message for madonna oh my god don't be too bad madonna that's incredible that's a great touching moment though you're about to give up on the party and go home and dennis robin's like come on man yeah yeah just party with me one more night let's do it yeah it was really touching because on the flight he says to me i so what are you doing after this you know after this story and i said they actually have me doing this nascar thing it was this weird black and white nascar cover story and uh he goes this he goes well they it ain't going be like this and i go no and he goes it's never gonna be like this and he was right and i kind of i kind of never yeah you've always been chasing that i mean i was on the balcony with john elway at his hotel after his last game he won super bowl mvp he's got a cigar in one hand and a beer in the other and he's telling me everything and i'm you know i write that story for Sports Illustrated all night. I've had moments where I'm like, this is surreal, but it was never like that.
So what about fact-checking when it comes to going out and partying with Dennis Rodman? How do you remember all the quotes and stuff that you're getting over the course of the night? Because they do trust, and you are a fun guy to hang out with. Yeah, it's such a great question because how we were classically trained journalism capital j a lot of things by the way don't be the story don't inject yourself i'm like i'm too arrogant for that you know but uh you know si we had time it was due you know 9 a.m monday morning usually or sometimes 9 a.m sunday morning so you could deconstruct and go back and check it.
But there are a lot of fine lines. Interestingly, doing the book with Rodman, I did back-to-back books with Rodman and Kurt Warner, very different books and experiences.
But doing the book with Rodman was wild because his thing was, you have to come here and rage and get in my orbit. And after an undetermined amount of time we'd be on twin treadmills at the birdo center and he'd be like take out that tape recorder yeah and uh and then it would be amazing but my wife would be like how long are you gonna be gone i'd be like i just don't know yeah right that's a very kidnap it's a fair question for to ask you if like you're writing a story and you're typing it as dennis rodman's having sex while there's a bird.
Yeah, right. I might get kidnapped.
It's a fair question for her to ask you, too, if you're writing a story and you're typing it as Dennis Rodman's having sex while there's a bird. Yeah.
You know? But he was amazing. Like, the book came out, and we had gone out in Chicago to a place called Manhole.
Okay. And Manhole suggests that it would be a bar frequented by dudes who are into dudes, which is what it was.
But one of the people, in fact, big screen TV of hardcore porn with dude on dudes at the bar, but there was a friend of his called Mimi that went out with us who was a voluptuous Marilyn Monroe lookalike with a sultry voice who had been named Michael and was in some form of transition, undetermined, but was Mimi. And in the book, as Dennis, I talked about Mimi, and I said I had been with Mimi a few times innocently, meaning I'd been out with Mimi.
But he goes on Howard Stern, and Stern's going, and he's like, you've been with Mimi? And Dennis just went with it. He just goes, a lot of people have been with transsexual, bro.
They just don't realize it. Incredible.
Well, Mike, this has been awesome. The book, The Why Is Everything? A Story of Football Rivalry and Revolution.
Buy it on Amazon. Rated T for Team.
My name is Paul Heyman. Special counsel to Roman Reigns and the Bloodlines wise man.
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I have to ask Grateful Dead a question. How many shows have you been to? I know we've talked about it privately.
How many shows have you been to total? Well, we're only counting Jerry grateful dead yes because i went you know i went to jerry band and kingfish and obviously anything since 95 doesn't count right um we did it my buddy and i i think it's 60 um wow they were in you know i went to cal from 83 to 88 so they just played so much kaiser and you know it was mail order tickets or buy one outside it was 15 bucks and it's so weird because we look back now and we're like we should have gone to more yeah um but we also knew and i think you know i i wondered the same like we knew in that moment we're seeing you know not just history but that jerry it was just a different yeah thing that was going on um how many did you get to well i mean i've never i'm too young to have gone to true grateful dead yes uh because i'm 39 oh yeah i've been to every iteration basically since phil leshin friends in the early 2000s nice but so you got to see like peak brent uh i saw i love i love brent and yeah i know you and i are aligned on that that is my wheelhouse so um jerry had the jerry almost died in 86 and went into a diabetic coma they took months off he had to relearn how to play the guitar and uh dennis mcnally their longtime publicist who was right very close has told me that he always felt jerry after that was like a great pitcher who'd lost his

fastball still amazing and hit moments but the speed it just wasn't so if if i had a wheelhouse i would say you know brent like once he started rounding into form let's say 82 yeah to diabetic coma which is uh summer of 86 yeah but it's all, so it's all one song. Yeah.
Um, what about, um, do you have a relationship with Aaron Rogers? Yeah, I just did a, I just actually did two columns on him. One of them, I went out to Jersey and, um, hung with him during training camp.
And so, um, you know, he's a Cal guy. I met him, you know, coming out of Cal.
He almost, you know,

gave me my life quest, which is to see my team go to the Rose bowl, which I think we all agree is even harder. Uh, and, um, you know, he's been really good to me over the years.
Uh, I, I think we probably diverge now on some certain things. Um, you know, I saw you guys at Tahoe, I saw him going in there.

It was a great interview.

My favorite part was when certain things um you know i saw you guys at tahoe i saw him going in there um it was great

interview um i my favorite part was when you were talking about the doctor's assessment of the um

achilles and you said something to the effect of so you were just trying to get them to make it

seem like you could come yeah yeah he was he did it for the whole season he took he took the jets

hostage a little bit but how you you guys did pretty well right yeah yeah he's i mean he's an

Here's the... like you could come yeah yeah he was he did it for the whole season he took he took the jets hostage a little bit but how you you guys did pretty well right yeah yeah he's i mean he's an interesting cat he's a i i didn't like him forever because he obviously tortured me but now that he's on the jets i like i'm watching him play now is a little it's kind of fun being like oh he's doing the same tricks where he gets everyone off sides and throws a touchdown there you know lazard it's like i can't be mad about this right i mean i see christian mccaffrey in that night or locker room constantly and um you know as a cal guy i love him but um i've always regretted it because i was doing this story on ed mccaffrey for si and they only had two kids at the time and ed is a great dude but, but not a great quote, but his wife, Lisa, is hilarious.
She's the one whose dad was an Olympic spreader. And she said, in the story, Ed and I are breeding fast white guys, which turned out to be true.
It's in the SI story. You can look it up.
So we're in their kitchen, and the two boys are running around, Max and Christian. I can remember the scene vividly.
And I've always kicked myself that I didn't sweep the leg. Because, yes, I probably would have done some jail time, gotten my ass kicked, and it would have been frowned upon.
Probably would have got fired. Yeah.
But, God, it would have saved me so much misery. Yeah.
We didn't tackle that guy for three years. Yeah, I know.
I mean, it was terrible. He was so it's been awesome man we we really appreciate you coming by and everyone go buy the book it's football history you're reading football history as it happens too that's the cool part about the book is it's not only history but it's still going on yeah I totally appreciate it and I feel like this adds to our origin story because we always have the blues bar and Jeff Darlington desperately trying to keep us from feuding.

Yeah.

Well,

you kept on saying Hugh Jackson got screwed.

It's like he won one game in two years.

You can say a lot of things about Hugh Jackson and you can say a lot of things about me,

but at least please say that I'm a good friend.

You are a good friend.

Yeah,

you are.

You're actually too good of a friend.

It's arguable that I am too good of a friend. we get that same criticism like we have we have guys that are our guys and we will defend them to the ends of the earth people get mad my favorite part of them my favorite part of the whole thing was jeff is i mean jeff was very you know we're very close so jeff was giving me that look like you are not allowed to not you know you and i were already cool but he was he was giving me like, you're not allowed to not be cool with this guy.
I kept on just pressing about you. But he was also kind of coming at you, but my favorite part was you got so mad and then you said, I could get Jared Goff not to speak to you.
Yeah, that's right. I was going to cut you off.
And Jeff's like, I don't think that's true. Yeah, he told me after, he's like, no, you couldn't.

I was like, yeah, I took a bluff.

But I did love the energy.

I remember I kind of stepped back.

I was like, wow, this guy doesn't play.

But yeah, Hugh Jackson.

If we bring Odor rankings back, I will literally credit this moment

because I've toyed with it in my head.

I would love it.

But I will probably unveil it to you guys first.

I like that.

Yes.

People deserve to know. All right.
Well, thanks so much, all right well thanks so much mike appreciate it so much thanks guys thanks mike hey it's ria from tricks in the office it's officially mini skort season and abercrombie has the ones to go out in their scarlet mini is a classic it's one of those skirts that fits the outfit vibe for any plans. And I'm excited to style their new

Sienna Skort. It's a little more

flirty and it's perfect for a date night.

Make plans to go out in Abercrombie,

shop their newest arrivals in store

and online. Alright, let's

wrap up. Guys on chicks.

Henry,

hit us. I've been talking to this guy

for some time and I recently learned all his friends

call him the Roach. I really don't like the name, especially when one of his friends yell, how's your Roach, which I don't really understand at all.
While I really don't like it, it's a strange reason to stop talking to him since I do like him. So should I ask him to drop the Roach tag or just try to embrace it? Thanks.
That's a scummy nickname. Yeah.
Yeah, because it's either a bug or it's the end of a joint. Yeah, he might be a pothead.
That would be better. Yeah, he should lie to you and tell you it's because he used to smoke a lot of weed.
I don't do that shit anymore. It's kind of a badass thing to know, Roach.
Yeah, Roach, but Roach is a guy that you call in once every other month to hang out when you really want to go slumming. Roach is not a guy that you would trust

to be your best man at your wedding.

He'd be an usher.

Yeah.

And she'd be like,

here, hand out these,

and he'd probably forget.

Yeah.

My girlfriend recently asked me

about the typical placement of men

at a urinal when she saw an Instagram video.

She did not understand the concept. I explained it to her like, urinal is its own parking spot and you as a person are the vehicle trying to park.
I had her tell me where she would park herself if it was a parking lot and mimic the video. It still did not make sense to her.
Did I explain it wrong or is she dumb? You usually want to give... If you have an extra space, you take the extra space.
an extra space parking spot makes sense you would never park next to someone if there's no if there's two open spaces yeah i do i mean every now and then it's funny if you have like a full empty yeah you go right next to the guy like one time i was at the serious xm studio and ed sheeran was taking what at the ur. Yeah.
Ed Sheeran. But this was, it was like, he was starting to blow up.
It was 2015. Holy fuck.
And you know who it was though. I did not know who it was until, until later.
But we ended up peeing at the same, like right next to each other. Shut the fuck up.
I lied. We both did not end up peeing.
I was peeing and I was peeing like full stream and then ed poor ed couldn't squeeze out any pee so he really was trying to pee and he started spitting into the urinal i dominated him at the urinal and then he had to do the fake flush like he flushed the urinal like he peed but he didn't pee and then he washed his hands like he peed he did not pee and then just left sad and i knew he still had to pee but he couldn't do it because he was intimidated. How have you never told us this? I don't know.
That's insane. It's a wild story.
Yeah, parking space, though. That works.
It's actually a great analogy. Yeah.
Hi. My boyfriend told me to text this number.
I saw his fantasy football team name is Hawk Tua Spit on My Chubb. I think it's weird to have a sexual name, but he insists it's a normal thing and it's just funny because there's a guy named Tua and a guy named Chubb on his team.
Should I be concerned? You should be concerned because it's unoriginal. Yeah, I think we predicted right when the Hawk Tua video came out that was going to be the top fantasy name.
Everyone's named Hawk Tua. You name your team.
He added a little extra with the Chubb. Does Chubb too? Yeah.
What is he doing with his IR spot? He's got a shitty team. That's the big red flag.
He's very bad at fantasy football. My fantasy team name has just been Jim Bob Cooter for the past 10 years.
Respect. No pun.
Just his name. I've decided that I'm just going to start naming my fantasy teams because everyone's like, oh, you've got to change your name every year.
I'm going to start naming my fantasy teams like I'm six years old. So my fantasy team name is the Scorpions.
That's pretty cool. Yeah, isn't it? Or you could name your team just a real name.
Like, that's Bob. Yeah.
I also, you can do. I just said I did that.
Yeah. Jim Bob Cooter.
Yeah, but just give it like one person. Yeah, but you're trying to do sexual.
You're doing sexual. Yeah, but it's Jim Bob Cooter.
But the Cooter is why you named it Jim Bob Cooter. It's a funny name.
And Jim Bob is also a funny first name. Some leagues you can just do an emoji.
So like one year I was just a wolf. That's pretty sick.
Badass. Mine's Danucci Maine.
Nice. Yeah, I would highly recommend, though, just go back to being like a seven-year.

Like, next year.

You know what?

I'm thinking right now I might change one of my team's names to the Fire Trucks.

I just realized we basically just do fantasy football names every Sunday for Boomers.

That's true.

Yes.

That's exactly what we do.

That's exactly what we do.

There's probably a lot of people with fantasy names from Boomers.

Yeah.

Remind us to do the Hawk toua joke this week on Boomers.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's about time.

She's topping us in the charts.

Actually.

Hawk Tua is a monster.

But neither of those two players are going to play this week.

It would have been awesome.

Yeah, but we should do it.

It would have been perfect last week because it was Hawks.

Yeah.

Dolphin.

It would have been Hawk Tua.

Shit.

Damn.

Damn.

We'll never get that moment back. Okay.
Hank, last one. This one said, Hey, Mudang Cat, PFT Commanders, and Autumn of Hank, my boyfriend and his friends have a weekly scheduled FaceTime every Friday night.
He says it's their time to catch up and cook up something in the lab for sports for the weekend. They just end up taking shots of beer every time the song changes for hours.
This means we can never go out on Fridays as a couple, and I have to leave the house if I don't want to hear them screaming about fancy football or the Mount Rushmore dipping sauces. Is this normal guy bonding? I feel like this is just an excuse to get drunk.
Should I be concerned? Will I ever get my boyfriend back for Friday nights? This guy was in a frat. Was this email from 2020? Thank you.
Yeah. Mudang supremacy shirts in the bar stores.
It says she, right? Where is Mudang? Mudang supremacy. China? China.
This feels like an op. Maybe Taiwan? I don't know.
It feels like a psyop. I love Mudang.
Have you guys seen Pesto? That's how they get you. Have you seen Pesto? No.
Pesto's a- Who is Mudang for maybe the- Mudang is a pygmy hippo that is the cutest fucking hippo ever. I think pygmy hippo.
I don't know. Little baby hippo.
I think it's pygmy. Pilar sent me that shirt last week, and then she told me that the Phillies NLE championship shirt was also in that box.
So unfortunately, I couldn't touch it until today. Oh, okay.
That makes sense. So go buy a mudang.
Cutest. Pesto is a penguin that is a baby penguin that is like two times the size of his parents.
It's a giant. It's a unit.
Yeah, but baby penguins are furry. So he looks different.
It's cool. Pesto is awesome.esto's chill.
Listen, I like Mudang. I enjoy the pictures of Mudang.
But it seems like everybody loves Mudang. And it's a little convenient that it might be Chinese propaganda.
That's fine. I don't care.
Okay. This guy, this is a COVID email.
She just emailed from COVID. That was 2020.
Yeah, like getting a group of guys organized for FaceTime that often was wild.

That was, I remember doing it a few times with my friends when COVID was happening,

and it was nice, but as soon as we were able to go outside, which was like three weeks

later, we were like, all right, that's over.

Yeah, it's really strange to schedule this on a Friday, too.

Yeah.

And just get drunk staring at your screen.

Yeah, very weird.

Had to be a frat. Yeah.
Had to be a frat.

Yeah.

Had to be a frat.

Okay.

Good show, boys.

Good show.

Friday.

We're going to do NFL Week 4.

Excited.

Yeah.

Let's finish with numbers.

Five.

Nine.

Three.

Five.

Eighteen.

Eleven.

Number five.

PFT and memes.

You ever gotten this?

No, I haven't, but I'm about to get it.

I'll never get it.

That's the five.

Jay Daniels.

Six.

Oh.

Is that nine?

Oh, nine.

Let's go.

Shit.

You said nine?

Dang, yeah.

Oh, shit.

Fuck you, Hank.

Oh, damn.

That turned.

God damn it.

You fucking suck.

In your face, PFT. Drake me sucks.
Damn. Good job, Hank.
Mine darter, baby. Fuck you, Hank.
Oh, damn. That turned.
God damn it. You fucking suck.
In your face.

Drake me sucks.

Damn.

Good job, Hank.

Nine daughter, baby.

Nine.

Hell yeah.

Woo.

Happy for you.

Very happy for you, Hank.

Thanks.

Feels good to win.

Doot, doot.

What was it?

No, dude.

What'd you do, Max?

What?

Winner.

I win.

And then you lost.

That's actually the mark of a true winner, the way that Hank reacted.