People I (Mostly) Admire
Freakonomics co-author Steve Levitt tracks down other high achievers for surprising, revealing conversations about their lives and obsessions. Join Levitt as he goes through the most interesting midlife crisis you’ve ever heard — and learn how a renegade sheriff is transforming Chicago's jail, how a biologist is finding the secrets of evolution in the Arctic tundra, and how a trivia champion memorized 160,000 flashcards.
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To get every show in the Freakonomics Radio Network without ads and a monthly bonus episode of Freakonomics Radio, start a free trial for SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus.
Episodes (198)
166. The World’s Most Effective Public Health Intervention Is Under Attack
Seth Berkley used to run the world's largest vaccine funding organization. He and Steve talk about the incredible value of vaccines, the economics of immunizing the developing world, and the current...
165. The Economist Who (Gasp!) Asks People What They Think
Stefanie Stantcheva’s approach seemed like career suicide. In fact, it won her the John Bates Clark Medal. She talks to fellow winner Steve Levitt about why she uses methods that most of the...
Rick Rubin on How to Make Something Great (Update)
From recording some of the first rap hits to revitalizing Johnny Cash's career, the legendary producer has had an extraordinary creative life. In this episode he talks about his new book and his...
164. Unravelling the Universe, Again
More than two decades ago, Adam Riess’s Nobel Prize-winning work fundamentally changed our understanding of the universe. His new work is reshaping cosmology for a second time.
163. The Data Sleuth Taking on Shoddy Science
Uri Simonsohn is a behavioral science professor who wants to improve standards in his field — so he’s made a sideline of investigating fraudulent academic research. He tells Steve Levitt, who's spent...
Arne Duncan Says All Kids Deserve a Chance — and Criminals Deserve a Second One (Update)
Former U.S. Secretary of Education, 3x3 basketball champion, and leader of an anti-gun violence organization are all on Arne’s resume. He’s also Steve’s neighbor. The two talk about teachers caught...
162. Will We Solve the Climate Problem?
Kate Marvel spends her days playing with climate models, which she says are “like a very expensive version of The Sims.” As a physicist she gets tired of being asked to weigh in on economics,...
161. How to Captivate an Audience
Twenty years ago, before the Freakonomics book tour, Bill McGowan taught Steve Levitt to speak in public. In his new book he tries to teach everyone else.
Annie Duke Thinks You Should Quit (Update)
Former professional poker player Annie Duke wrote a book about Steve’s favorite subject: quitting. They talk about why quitting is so hard, how to do it sooner, and why we feel shame when we do...
160. How to Help Kids Succeed
Psychologist David Yeager thinks the conventional wisdom for how to motivate young people is all wrong. His model for helping kids cope with stress is required reading at Steve’s new high school.
159. Robin Wall Kimmerer’s Manifesto for a Gift Economy
She’s a botanist, a member of the Citizen Potawatomi Nation, and the author of the bestselling "Braiding Sweetgrass." In her new book she criticizes the market economy — but she and Steve find a...
Does Death Have to Be a Death Sentence? (Update)
Palliative physician B.J. Miller asks: Is there a better way to think about dying? And can death be beautiful?
158. Why Did Rome Fall — and Are We Next?
Historian Tom Holland narrowly escaped a career writing vampire novels to become the co-host of the wildly popular podcast "The Rest Is History." At Steve’s request, he compares President Trump and...
157. The Deadliest Disease in Human History
John Green returns to the show to talk about tuberculosis — a disease that kills more than a million people a year. Steve has an idea for a new way to get treatment to those in need.
Abraham Verghese Thinks Medicine Can Do Better (Update)
Abraham Verghese is a physician and a best-selling author — in that order, he says. He explains the difference between curing and healing, and tells Steve why doctors should spend more time with...
156. A Solution to America’s Gun Problem
Jens Ludwig has an idea for how to fix America’s gun violence problem — and it starts by rejecting conventional wisdom from both sides of the political aisle.
155. Helping People Die
Ellen Wiebe is a physician who helps seriously ill patients end their lives in Canada, where assisted suicide is legal. Is death a human right?
Yul Kwon: “Don't Try to Change Yourself All at Once.” (Update)
He has been a lawyer, an instructor at the F.B.I. Academy, the owner of a frozen-yogurt chain, and a winner of the TV show Survivor. Today, Kwon works at Google, but things haven’t always come easily...
154. Can Robots Get a Grip?
Ken Goldberg is at the forefront of robotics — which means he tries to teach machines to do things humans find trivial.
153. We’re Not Getting Sicker — We’re Overdiagnosed
Suzanne O'Sullivan is a neurologist who sees many patients with psychosomatic disorders. Their symptoms may be psychological in origin, but their pain is real and physical — and the way we practice...
Reading Dostoevsky Behind Bars (Update)
Reginald Dwayne Betts spent more than eight years in prison. Today he's a Yale Law graduate, a MacArthur Fellow, and a poet. His nonprofit works to build libraries in prisons so that more incarcerated...
152. Hunting for the Origins of Life
Chemist Jack Szostak wants to understand how the first life forms came into being on Earth. He and Steve discuss the danger of "mirror bacteria," the origin of biology in poisonous chemicals, and the...
151. Neurobiologist, Philosopher, and Addict
Owen Flanagan's newest book details his 20-year dependence on alcohol and pills — and outlines his research on what addiction can tell us about the nature of consciousness.
Jane Goodall Changed the Way We See Animals. She’s Not Done. (Replay)
The primatologist discusses the thrill of observing chimpanzees in the wild, the value of challenging orthodoxy, and why dying is her next great adventure.
150. His Brilliant Videos Get Millions of Views. Why Don’t They Make Money?
Hank Green is an internet phenomenon and a master communicator, with a plan to reform higher education. He and Steve talk about the video blog that launched Hank’s career, the economics of the...
149. Stanford’s President Knows He Can’t Make Everyone Happy
Jonathan Levin is an academic economist who now runs one of the most influential universities in the world. He tells Steve how he saved Comcast a billion dollars, why he turned down Steve’s unusual...
Why Numbers are Music to Our Ears (Update)
Sarah Hart investigates the mathematical structures underlying musical compositions and literature. Using examples from Monteverdi to Lewis Carroll, Sarah explains to Steve how math affects how we...
148. How to Have Good Ideas
Sarah Stein Greenberg runs Stanford’s d.school, which teaches design as a mode of problem solving. She and Steve talk about what makes her field different from other academic disciplines, how to...
147. Is Your Gut a Second Brain?
In her book, "Rumbles," medical historian Elsa Richardson explores the history of the human gut. She talks with Steve about dubious medical practices, gruesome tales of survival, and the things that...
Turning Work into Play (Update)
How psychologist Dan Gilbert went from high school dropout to Harvard professor, found the secret of joy, and inspired Steve Levitt's divorce.
146. Is There a Fair Way to Divide Us?
Moon Duchin is a math professor at Cornell University whose theoretical work has practical applications for voting and democracy. Why is striving for fair elections so difficult?
145. Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Still Starstruck
The director of the Hayden Planetarium is one of the best science communicators of our time. He and Steve talk about his role in reclassifying Pluto, bad teachers, and why economics isn’t a science.
Pete Docter: “What If Monsters Really Do Exist?” (Update)
He’s the chief creative officer of Pixar, and the Academy Award-winning director of "Soul, Inside Out, Up, and Monsters, Inc." Pete Docter and Steve talk about Pixar’s scrappy beginnings, why wrong...
144. Feeling Sound and Hearing Color
David Eagleman is a Stanford neuroscientist, C.E.O., television host, and founder of the Possibilianism movement. He and Steve talk about how wrists can substitute for ears, why we dream, and what...
143. Why Are Boys and Men in Trouble?
Boys and men are trending downward in education, employment, and mental health. Richard Reeves, author of the book "Of Boys and Men", has some solutions that don’t come at the expense of women and...
Nobel Laureate Daron Acemoglu on Economics, Politics, and Power (Replay)
Daron Acemoglu was just awarded the 2024 Nobel Prize in economics. Earlier this year, he and Steve talked about his groundbreaking research on what makes countries succeed or fail.
142. What’s Impacting American Workers?
David Autor took his first economics class at 29 years old. Now he’s one of the central academics studying the labor market. The M.I.T. economist and Steve dissect the impact of technology on labor,...
EXTRA: Using Data to Win Gold
Kate Douglass is a world-class swimmer and data scientist who’s used mathematical modeling to help make her stroke more efficient. She and Steve talk about why the Olympics were underwhelming, how she...
141. The Language of the Universe
Ken Ono is a math prodigy whose skills have helped produce a Hollywood movie and made Olympic swimmers faster. The number theorist tells Steve why he sees mathematics as art — and about his unusual...
Drawing from Life (and Death) (Update)
Artist Wendy MacNaughton knows the difficulty of sitting in silence and the power of having fun. She explains to Steve the lessons she’s gleaned from drawing hospice residents, working in Rwanda, and...
140. How to Breathe Better
Bestselling author James Nestor believes that we can improve our lives by changing the way we breathe. He’s persuasive enough to get Steve taping his mouth shut at night. He explains how humans dive...
139. How PETA Made Radical Ideas Mainstream
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals founder Ingrid Newkirk has been badgering meat-eaters, fur-wearers, and circus-goers for more than 40 years. For a woman who’s leaving her liver to the...
Sendhil Mullainathan Thinks Messing Around Is the Best Use of Your Time (Update)
Revisiting Steve’s 2021 conversation with the economist and MacArthur “genius” about how to make memories stickier, why change is undervalued, and how to find something new to say on the subject of...
138. Chris Anderson on the Power of TED
Under his helm, the TED Conference went from a small industry gathering to a global phenomenon. Chris and Steve talk about how to build lasting institutions, how to make generosity go viral, and what...
EXTRA: Remembering Susan Wojcicki
The former YouTube C.E.O. — and sixteenth Google employee — died on August 9, 2024. Steve talked with her in 2020 about her remarkable career, and how her background in economics shaped her work.
137. Richard Dawkins on God, Genes, and Murderous Baby Cuckoos
The author of the classic "The Selfish Gene" is still changing the way we think about evolution.
What It Takes to Know Everything (Update)
Victoria Groce is the best trivia contestant on earth. The winner of the 2024 World Quizzing Championship explains the structure of a good question, why she knits during competitions, and how to...
136. The World’s Most Controversial Ornithologist
Richard Prum says there's a lot that traditional evolutionary biology can't explain. He thinks a neglected hypothesis from Charles Darwin — and insights from contemporary queer theory — hold the...
135. How to Grow a White Rhino
Thomas Hildebrandt is trying to bring the northern white rhinoceros back from the brink of extinction. The wildlife veterinarian tells Steve about the far-out techniques he employs, why we might see...
Sue Bird: “You Have to Pay the Superstars.” (Replay)
She is one of the best basketball players ever. She’s won multiple championships, including five Olympic gold medals and four W.N.B.A. titles. She also helped negotiate a landmark contract for the...
134. Why Do We Still Teach People to Calculate?
Conrad Wolfram wants to transform the way we teach math — by taking advantage of computers. The creator of Computer-Based Maths convinced the Estonian government to give his radical curriculum a try —...
133. Pay Attention! (Your Body Will Thank You)
Ellen Langer is a psychologist at Harvard who studies the mind-body connection. She’s published some of the most remarkable scientific findings Steve has ever encountered. Can we really improve our...
John Green’s Reluctant Rocket Ship Ride (Update)
Author and YouTuber John Green thought his breakout bestseller wouldn’t be a commercial success, wrote 40,000 words for one sentence, and brought Steve to tears.
132. Suleika Jaouad’s Survival Mechanisms
Suleika Jaouad was diagnosed with cancer at 22. She made her illness the subject of a New York Times column and a memoir, "Between Two Kingdoms". She and Steve talk about what it means to live with a...
131. Getting Old, Adventurously
Caroline Paul is a thrill-seeker and writer who is on a quest to encourage women to get outside and embrace adventure as they age. She and Steve talk about fighting fires, walking on airplane wings,...
What It’s Like to Be Steve Levitt’s Daughters (Update)
Steve shows a different side of himself in very personal interviews with his two oldest daughters. Amanda talks about growing up with social anxiety and her decision not to go to college, while Lily...
130. Is Our Concept of Freedom All Wrong?
The economist Joseph Stiglitz has devoted his life to exposing the limits of markets. He tells Steve about winning an argument with fellow Nobel laureate Milton Friedman, why small governments don’t...
129. How to Fix Medical Research
Monica Bertagnolli went from a childhood on a cattle ranch to a career as a surgeon to a top post in the Biden administration. As director of the National Institutes of Health, she’s working to...
EXTRA: Remembering Daniel Kahneman
Nobel laureate, bestselling author, and groundbreaking psychologist Daniel Kahneman died in March. In 2021 he talked with Steve Levitt — his friend and former business partner — about his book "Noise:...
128. Are Our Tools Becoming Part of Us?
Google researcher Blaise Agüera y Arcas spends his work days developing artificial intelligence models and his free time conducting surveys for fun. He tells Steve how he designed an algorithm for the...
127. Rajiv Shah Never Wastes a Crisis
After Haiti’s devastating earthquake, Rajiv Shah headed the largest humanitarian effort in U.S. history. As chief economist of the Gates Foundation he tried to immunize almost a billion children. He...
126. How to Have Great Conversations
"The Power of Habit" author Charles Duhigg wrote his new book in an attempt to learn how to communicate better. Steve shares how the book helped him understand his own conversational weaknesses.
125. Is Gynecology the Best Innovation Ever?
Cat Bohannon’s new book puts female anatomy at the center of human evolution. She tells Steve why it takes us so long to give birth, what breast milk is really for, and why the human reproductive...
124. Daron Acemoglu on Economics, Politics, and Power
Economist Daron Acemoglu likes to tackle big questions. He tells Steve how colonialism still affects us today, who benefits from new technology, and why democracy wasn’t always a sure thing.
123. Walt Hickey Wants to Track Your Eyeballs
Journalist Walt Hickey uses data to understand how culture works. He and Steve talk about why China hasn’t produced any hit movies yet and how he got his own avatar in the Madden NFL video game.
122. Arnold Schwarzenegger Has Some Advice for You
Arnold Schwarzenegger has been a bodybuilder, an actor, a governor, and, now, an author. He tells Steve how he’s managed to succeed in so many fields — and what to do when people throw eggs at you.
121. Exploring Physics, from Eggshells to Oceans
Physicist Helen Czerski loves to explain how the world works. She talks with Steve about studying bubbles, setting off explosives, and how ocean waves have changed the course of history.
120. Werner Herzog Thinks His Films Are a Distraction
The filmmaker doesn’t want to be known only for his movies. He tells Steve why he considers himself a writer first, how it feels to be recognized for his role in "The Mandalorian," and why he once...
119. Higher Education Is Broken. Can It Be Fixed?
Economist Michael D. Smith says universities are scrambling to protect a status quo that deserves to die. He tells Steve why the current system is unsustainable, and what’s at stake if nothing...
118. “My God, This Is a Transformative Power”
Computer scientist Fei-Fei Li had a wild idea: download one billion images from the internet and teach a computer to recognize them. She ended up advancing the state of artificial intelligence — and...
117. Nate Silver Says We're Bad at Making Predictions
Data scientist Nate Silver gained attention for his election predictions. But even the best prognosticators get it wrong sometimes. He talks to Steve about making good decisions with data, why he’d...
116. Abraham Verghese Thinks Medicine Can Do Better
Abraham Verghese is a physician and a best-selling author — in that order, he says. He explains the difference between curing and healing, and tells Steve why doctors should spend more time with...
EXTRA: Nobel Laureate Claudia Goldin on "Greedy Work" and the Wage Gap
Claudia Goldin is the newest winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics. Steve spoke to her in 2021 about how inflexible jobs and family responsibilities make it harder for women to earn wages equal to...
115. The Future of Therapy Is Psychedelic
For 37 years, Rick Doblin has been pushing the F.D.A. to approve treating post-traumatic stress disorder with MDMA, better known as Ecstasy. He tells Steve why he persisted for so long, why he doesn’t...
114. Is Perfectionism Ruining Your Life?
Psychologist Thomas Curran argues that perfectionism isn’t about high standards — it’s about never being enough. He explains how the drive to be perfect is harming education, the economy, and our...
113. Do We Have Evidence of Alien Life?
Avi Loeb is a Harvard astronomer who argues that we’ve already encountered extraterrestrial technology. His approach to the search for interstellar objects is scientific, but how plausible is his...
112. Reading Dostoevsky Behind Bars
Reginald Dwayne Betts spent more than eight years in prison. Today he's a Yale Law graduate, a MacArthur Fellow, and a poet. His nonprofit works to build libraries in prisons so that more incarcerated...
111. Can a Moonshot Approach to Mental Health Work?
Obi Felten used to launch projects for X, Google’s innovation lab, but she’s now tackling mental health. She explains why Steve’s dream job was soul-destroying for her, and how peer support could...
110. Drawing from Life (and Death)
Artist Wendy MacNaughton knows the difficulty of sitting in silence and the power of having fun. She explains to Steve the lessons she’s gleaned from drawing hospice residents, working in Rwanda, and...
Extra: An Update on the Khan World School
Sal Khan returns to discuss his innovative online high school’s first year — and Steve grills a member of the school’s class of 2026 about what it’s really like.
109. David Simon Is On Strike. Here’s Why.
The creator of "The Wire", "The Deuce", and other shows is leading the Writers Guild on the picket lines. He and Steve break down the economics of TV writing, how A.I. could change television, and why...
The Economics of Everyday Things: T. rex Skeletons
In the newest show from the Freakonomics Radio Network, host Zachary Crockett explores the hidden side of the things around us. This week: How do dinosaur bones emerge from the Upper Cretaceous period...
108. Ninety-Eight Years of Economic Wisdom
Robert Solow is 98 years old and a giant among economists. He tells Steve about cracking German codes in World War II, why it’s so hard to reduce inequality, and how his field lost its way.
107. Bringing Data to Life
Talithia Williams thinks you should rigorously track your body's data. She and Steve Levitt trade birth stories and bemoan the state of STEM education.
106. Will A.I. Make Us Smarter?
Kevin Kelly believes A.I. will create more problems for humanity — and help us solve them. He talks to Steve about embracing complexity, staying enthusiastic, and taking the 10,000-year view.
105. Can Data Keep People Out of Prison?
Clementine Jacoby went from performing in a circus to founding a nonprofit that works to shrink the prison population.
104. The Joy of Math With Sarah Hart
Steve is on a mission to reform math education, and Sarah Hart is ready to join the cause. In her return visit to the show, Sarah explains how patterns are everywhere, constraints make us more...
103. Rick Rubin on How to Make Something Great
From recording some of the first rap hits to revitalizing Johnny Cash's career, the legendary producer has had an extraordinary creative life. In this episode he talks about his new book and his...
102. Adding Ten Healthy Years to Your Life
Physician Peter Attia returns to the show to talk about the science of longevity — which focuses not only on extending life but on maintaining good health into old age. He explains the possibilities...
101. Celebrating 100 People I (Mostly) Admire
Steve and producer Morgan Levey look back at the first 100 episodes of the podcast, including surprising answers, spectacular explanations, and listeners who heard the show and changed their lives.
100. Chicago’s Renegade Sheriff Wants to Fix Law Enforcement
Tom Dart is transforming Cook County’s jail, reforming evictions, and, with Steve Levitt, trying a new approach to electronic monitoring.
99. Greg Norman Takes On the P.G.A. Tour
Since his last visit to "People I (Mostly) Admire," the formerly top-ranked golfer has become the sport's most controversial figure. Why has he partnered with the Saudi government — and can his new...
98. Searching for Our Aquatic Ancestors
Neil Shubin hunts for fossils in the Arctic and experiments with D.N.A. in the lab, hoping to find out how fish evolved to walk on land. He explains why unlocking these answers could help humans...
97. How Smart Is a Forest?
Ecologist Suzanne Simard studies the relationships between trees in a forest: they talk to each other, punish each other, and depend on each other. What can we learn from them?
96. Steven Strogatz Thinks You Don’t Know What Math Is
The mathematician and author sees mathematical patterns everywhere — from DNA to fireflies to social connections.
95. The One Thing Stephen Dubner Hasn’t Quit
When "Freakonomics" co-authors Steve Levitt and Stephen Dubner first met, one of them hated the other. Two decades later, Levitt grills Dubner about asking questions, growing the pie, and what he...
94. The Price of Doing Business with John List
From baseball card conventions to Walmart, John List has always used field experiments to say revolutionary things about economics. He explains the value of an apology, why scaling shouldn’t be an...
93. Annie Duke Thinks You Should Quit
Former professional poker player Annie Duke has a new book on Steve’s favorite subject: quitting. They talk about why quitting is so hard, how to do it sooner, and why we feel shame when we do...
92. John Green’s Reluctant Rocket Ship Ride
Author and YouTuber John Green thought his breakout bestseller wouldn’t be a commercial success, wrote 40,000 words for one sentence, and brought Steve to tears.
91. Jane Goodall Changed the Way We See Animals. She’s Not Done.
The ethologist and conservationist discusses the thrill of observing chimpanzees in the wild, the value of challenging orthodoxy, and why dying is her next great adventure.
90. Peter Singer Isn’t a Saint, But He’s Better Than Steve Levitt
The philosopher known for his rigorous ethics explains why Steve is leading a morally inconsistent life.
Extra: A Rockstar Chemist Wins the Nobel Prize
Stanford professor Carolyn Bertozzi’s imaginative ideas for treating disease have led to ten start-ups. She talks with Steve about the next generation of immune therapy she’s created, and why she...
89. A Cross Between Sherlock Holmes and Indiana Jones
Heeding the warnings of public health officer Charity Dean about Covid-19 could have saved lives. Charity explains why she loves infectious diseases and why she moved to the private sector.
88. Ken Burns on Heroism, Horror, and History
The documentary filmmaker, known for "The Civil War," "Jazz," and "Baseball," turns his attention to the Holocaust, and asks what we can learn from the evils of the past.
87. How Much Are the Right Friends Worth?
Harvard economist Raj Chetty uses tax data to study inequality, kid success, and social mobility. He explains why you should be careful when choosing your grade school teachers — and your friends.
86. A Million-Year View on Morality
Philosopher Will MacAskill thinks about how to do as much good as possible. But that's really hard, especially when you're worried about humans who won't be born for many generations.
85. What It Takes to Know Everything
Victoria Groce is one of the best trivia contestants on earth. She explains the structure of a good question, why she knits during competitions, and how to memorize 160,000 flashcards.
84. Yuval Noah Harari Thinks Life Is Meaningless and Amazing
The author of "Sapiens" has a knack for finding the profound in the obvious. He tells Steve why money is fiction, traffic can be mind-blowing, and politicians have a right to say stupid things in...
83. “There's So Many Problems — Which Ones Can I Make a Difference On?”
When she's not rescuing chickens from coyotes, Susan Athey uses economics to address real-world challenges — from online ad auctions to carbon capture technology.
82. Is This the Future of High School?
Khan Academy founder Sal Khan returns to share his vision for a new way to learn — and the conversation inspires Steve to make a big announcement.
81. Why Bother Searching for Aliens?
Astronomer Jill Tarter spent her career searching for extraterrestrial intelligence. She explains what civilizations from other planets could teach us about our own future.
80. Get Your Share of the Pie
Game theorist Barry Nalebuff explains how he used basic economics to build Honest Tea into a multimillion-dollar business, and shares his innovative approach to negotiation.
79. Solar Geoengineering Would Be Radical. It Might Also Be Necessary.
David Keith has spent his career studying ways to reflect sunlight away from the earth. It could reduce the risks of climate change — but it won’t save us.
78. Giving It Away
Billionaire John Arnold is figuring out how to do as much good as he can with his wealth. It takes hard work, risk tolerance, and a lot of spending.
77. Can Games Prepare Us for Catastrophes? (Part 2)
Many of us hate to think about future crises. Game designer Jane McGonigal wants to make it fun.
76. Is Gaming Good for You?
Jane McGonigal designed a game to help herself recover from a traumatic brain injury — and she thinks playing games can help us all lead our best lives.
75. Self-Help for Data Nerds
Seth Stephens-Davidowitz combs through mountains of information to find advice for everyday life.
74. Getting Our Hands Dirty
Soil scientist Asmeret Asefaw Berhe could soon hold one of the most important jobs in science. She explains why the ground beneath our feet is one of our greatest resources — and, possibly, one of our...
73. Turning Work into Play
How psychologist Dan Gilbert went from high school dropout to Harvard professor, found the secret of joy, and inspired Steve Levitt's divorce.
72. “Leaving Black People in the Lurch”
Linguist and social commentator John McWhorter explains how good intentions may be hurting Black America — and where the word “motherf*cker” comes from.
71. Bombs Away
Beatrice Fihn wants to rid the world of nuclear weapons. As Russian aggression raises the prospect of global conflict, can she put disarmament on the world's agenda?
70. You Make Me Feel Like a Natural Experiment
Nobel Prize winner Joshua Angrist explains how the draft lottery, the Talmud, and West Point let economists ask — and answer — tough questions.
69. Does Death Have to Be a Death Sentence?
Palliative physician B.J. Miller asks: Is there a better way to think about dying? And can death be beautiful?
68. “No One Can Resist a Jolly, Happy Pig.”
Naturalist Sy Montgomery explains how she learned to be social from a pig, discovered octopuses have souls, and came to love a killer that will never love her back.
67. We Can Play God Now
Gene-editing pioneer Jennifer Doudna worries that humanity might not be ready for the technology she helped develop.
66. The Professor Who Said “No” to Tenure
Columbia astrophysicist David Helfand is an academic who does things his own way — from turning down job security to helping found a radically unconventional university.
65. A Rockstar Chemist and Her Cancer-Attacking “Lawn Mower”
Stanford professor Carolyn Bertozzi’s imaginative ideas for treating disease have led to ten start-ups. She talks with Steve about the next generation of immune therapy she’s created, and why she...
64. How Larry Miller Went from Prison Valedictorian to Nike Executive
Climbing the corporate ladder to become head of Nike’s Jordan brand, he kept his teenage murder conviction a secret from employers. Larry talks about living in fear, accepting forgiveness, and why it...
63. The Only Covid-19 Book Worth Reading
Steve loved Michael Lewis’s latest, The Premonition, but has one critique: Why aren’t there even more villains? Also, why the author of best-sellers Moneyball and The Big Short can barely read a page...
62. How Does Historian Brad Gregory Make a Boring Topic So Mind-Blowing?
A leading expert on the Reformation era, Brad, a University of Notre Dame professor, tells Steve about how the “blood gets sucked out of history,” and why historians and economists don’t quite see eye...
61. Was Austan Goolsbee’s First Visit to the Oval Office Almost His Last?
The former chairman of the Obama administration’s Council of Economic Advisors tells Steve how improv comedy was a better training ground for teaching than a Ph.D. from M.I.T., and why he’s glad he...
60. Cassandra Quave Thinks the Way Antibiotics Are Developed Might Kill Us
By mid-century, 10 million people a year are projected to die from untreatable infections. Can Cassandra, an ethnobotanist at Emory University convince Steve that herbs and ancient healing are key to...
Why Aren’t All Drugs Legal? (Replay Ep. 28)
The Columbia neuroscientist and psychology professor Carl Hart believes that recreational drug use, even heroin, methamphetamines, and cocaine, is an inalienable right. Can he convince Steve?
Are We Under Threat from a New Kind of Terror? (Replay Ep. 24)
Amaryllis Fox is a former C.I.A. operative and host of the Netflix show The Business of Drugs. She explains why intelligence work requires empathy, and she soothes Steve’s fears about weapons of mass...
59. Who Gives the Worst Advice?
Steve usually asks his guests for advice, whether they’re magicians or Nobel laureates. After nearly 60 episodes, is any of it worth following — or should we just ask listeners instead?
58. Why Is Richard Thaler Such a ****ing Optimist?
The Nobel laureate and pioneering behavioral economist spars with Steve over what makes a nudge a nudge, and admits that even economists have plenty of blind spots.
57. What Makes John Doerr Think He Can Save the Planet?
The legendary venture capitalist believes the same intuition that led him to bet early on Google can help us reach net-zero carbon emissions by 2050. But Steve wonders why his plan doesn’t include a...
56. Claudia Goldin: What’s “Greedy Work” and Why Is It a Problem?
Harvard economist Claudia Goldin and Steve talk about how inflexible jobs and family responsibilities make it harder for women to earn wages equal to their male counterparts. But could Covid actually...
55. Jared Diamond on the Downfall of Civilizations — and His Optimism for Ours
He’s the award-winning author of hugely popular books like Guns, Germs, and Steel; Collapse; and Upheaval. But Jared actually started his varied career as an expert on gallbladders and birds. The...
54. Andrew Yang Is Not Giving Up on Politics — or the U.S. — Yet
He’s tried to shake up the status quo — as a Democratic presidential candidate, a New York City mayoral candidate, and now the founder of the Forward party. Will his third try be the charm? Andrew...
53. The Simple Economics of Saving the Amazon Rainforest
Everyone agrees that massive deforestation is an environmental disaster. But most of the standard solutions — scolding the Brazilians, invoking universal morality — ignore the one solution that might...
52. Max Tegmark on Why Superhuman Artificial Intelligence Won’t be Our Slave (Part 2)
He’s an M.I.T. cosmologist, physicist, and machine-learning expert, and once upon a time, almost an economist. Max and Steve continue their conversation about the existential threats facing humanity,...
51. Max Tegmark on Why Treating Humanity Like a Child Will Save Us All
How likely is it that this conversation is happening in more than one universe? Should we worry more about Covid or about nuclear war? Is economics a form of “intellectual prostitution?” Steve...
50. Edward Miguel on Collecting Economic Data by Canoe and Correlating Conflict with Rainfall
He’s a pioneer of using randomized control experiments in economics — studying the long-term benefits of a $1 health intervention in Africa. Steve asks Edward, a Berkeley professor, about Africa’s...
49. Mathematician Sarah Hart on Why Numbers are Music to Our Ears
Playing notes on her piano, she demonstrates for Steve why whole numbers sound pleasing, why octaves are mathematically imperfect, and how math underlies musical composition. Sarah, a professor at the...
48. Marc Davis Can’t Stop Watching Basketball — But He Doesn’t Care Who Wins
His childhood dream of playing in the N.B.A. led him to a career as a referee. Marc is one of the league’s top performers after over 20 seasons, but he still reviews every single one of his calls. He...
Ken Jennings on How a Midlife Crisis Led Him to Jeopardy! (People I (Mostly) Admire, Ep. 4 Replay)
It was only in his late twenties that America’s favorite brainiac began to seriously embrace his love of trivia. Jeopardy!’s newest host also holds the show’s “Greatest of All Time” title. Steve digs...
Mayim Bialik on the Surprising Risks of Academia and Stability of Show Biz (People I (Mostly) Admire, Ep. 2 Replay)
This new Jeopardy! host is best known for playing neurobiologist Amy Farrah Fowler on The Big Bang Theory, but she has a rich life outside of her acting career too, as a teacher, mother — and a...
47. Robert Axelrod on Why Being Nice, Forgiving, and Provokable are the Best Strategies for Life
The prisoner’s dilemma is a classic game-theory problem. Robert, a political scientist at the University of Michigan, has spent his career studying it — and the ways humans can cooperate, or betray...
46. Amanda & Lily Levitt Share What It’s Like to be Steve’s Daughters
Steve shows a different side of himself in very personal interviews with his two oldest daughters. Amanda talks about growing up with social anxiety and her decision to not go to college, while Lily...
45. Leidy Klotz on Why the Best Solutions Involve Less — Not More
When we try to improve things, our first thought is often: What can we add to make this better? But Leidy, a professor of engineering, says we tend to overlook the fact that a better solution might be...
44. Edward Glaeser Explains Why Some Cities Thrive While Others Fade Away
An expert on urban economics and co-author of the new book Survival of the City, Ed says cities have faced far worse than Covid. Steve talks with the Harvard professor about why the slums of Mumbai...
43. Arne Duncan Says All Kids Deserve a Chance — and Criminals Deserve a Second One
Former U.S. Secretary of Education, 3x3 basketball champion, and leader of an anti-gun violence organization are all on Arne’s resume. He’s also Steve’s neighbor. The two talk about teachers caught...
42. America’s Math Curriculum Doesn’t Add Up
A special episode: Steve reports on a passion of his. Most high-school math classes are still preparing students for the Sputnik era. Steve wants to get rid of the “geometry sandwich” and instead have...
41. Dr. Bapu Jena on Why Freakonomics Is the Best Medicine
He’s a Harvard physician and economist who just started a third job: host of the new podcast Freakonomics, M.D. He’s also Steve’s former student. The two discuss why medicine should embrace econ-style...
40. Harold Pollack on Why Managing Your Money Is as Easy as Taking Out the Garbage
He argues that personal finance is so simple all you need to know can fit on an index card. How will he deal with Steve’s suggestion that Harold’s nine rules for managing money are overly complicated?...
39. Aicha Evans Wants You to Take Your Eyes Off the Road
She’s the C.E.O. of Zoox, an autonomous vehicle company. Steve asks Aicha about the big promises the A.V. industry hasn’t yet delivered — and the radical bet Zoox is making on a driverless future....
38. Sendhil Mullainathan Explains How to Generate an Idea a Minute (Part 2)
Steve continues his conversation with his good friend, MacArthur “Genius Grant” recipient, and fellow University of Chicago economist. Sendhil breaks down the hypothesis of his book Scarcity, explains...
37. Sendhil Mullainathan Thinks Messing Around Is the Best Use of Your Time
He’s a professor of computation and behavioral science at the University of Chicago, MacArthur “Genius Grant” recipient, and author. Steve and Sendhil laugh their way through a conversation about the...
36. How Rahm Emanuel Would Run the World
In this interview, first heard on Freakonomics Radio last year, Steve talks with the former top adviser to presidents Clinton and Obama, about his record — and his reputation. And Rahm explains that...
35. David Epstein Knows Something About Almost Everything
He’s been an Arctic scientist, a sports journalist, and is now a best-selling author of science books. His latest, Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World, makes the argument that early...
34. Maya Shankar Is Changing People’s Behavior — and Her Own
She used to run a behavioral unit in the Obama administration, and now has a similar role at Google. Maya and Steve talk about the power (and limits) of behavioral economics and also how people...
33. Travis Tygart Is Coming for Cheaters — Just Ask Lance Armstrong
He’s the C.E.O. of the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA), which, under his charge, exposed the most celebrated American cyclist as a cheater. And Steve’s been studying cheaters for the last 25...
32. Angela Duckworth Explains How to Manage Your Goal Hierarchy
She’s the author of the bestselling book Grit, and a University of Pennsylvania professor of psychology — a field Steve says he knows nothing about. But once Angela gives Steve a quick tutorial on...
31. Peter Leeson on Why Trial-by-Fire Wasn’t Barbaric and Why Pirates Were Democratic
He’s an economist who studies even weirder things than Steve. They discuss whether economics is the best of the social sciences, and why it’s a good idea to get a tattoo of a demand curve on your...
30. Dambisa Moyo Says Foreign Aid Can’t Solve Problems, but Maybe Corporations Can
The African-born economist has written four bestselling books, including Dead Aid, which Bill Gates described as “promoting evil.” In her new book about corporate boards, Dambisa uses her experience...
29. Bruce Friedrich Thinks There’s a Better Way to Eat Meat
Levitt rarely interviews advocates, but the founder of the Good Food Institute is different. Once an outspoken — and sometimes outlandish — animal-rights activist, Bruce has come to believe that...
28. Professor Carl Hart Argues All Drugs Should Be Legal — Can He Convince Steve?
As a neuroscientist and psychology professor at Columbia University who studies the immediate and long-term effects of illicit substances, Carl Hart believes that all drugs — including heroin,...
27. Daniel Kahneman on Why Our Judgment is Flawed — and What to Do About It
Nobel laureate, best-selling author, and groundbreaking psychologist Daniel Kahneman is also a friend and former business partner of Steve’s. In discussing Danny’s new book Noise: A Flaw in Human...
26. Memory Champion Nelson Dellis Helps Steve Train His Brain
He’s one of the world’s leading competitors, having won four U.S. memory tournaments and holding the record for most names memorized in 15 minutes (235!). But Nelson Dellis claims he was born with an...
25. Sam Harris: “Spirituality Is a Loaded Term.”
He’s a cognitive neuroscientist and philosopher who has written five best-selling books. Sam Harris also hosts the Making Sense podcast and helps people discover meditation through his Waking Up app....
Nathan Myhrvold: “I Am Interested in Lots of Things, and That's Actually a Bad Strategy.” (Episode 6 Rebroadcast)
He graduated high school at 14, and by 23 had several graduate degrees and was a research assistant with Stephen Hawking. He became the first chief technology officer at Microsoft (without having ever...
24. Amaryllis Fox: “What Does This New Version of Mutually Assured Destruction Look Like?”
She spent nearly a decade as an undercover C.I.A. operative working to prevent terrorism. More recently, she hosted The Business of Drugs on Netflix. Amaryllis Fox — now Kennedy — explains why...
23. Greg Norman & Mark Broadie: Why Golf Beats an Orgasm and Why Data Beats Everything
Steve Levitt is obsessed with golf — and he’s pretty good at it too. As a thinly-veiled ploy to improve his own game, Steve talks to two titans of the sport: Greg “The Shark” Norman, who was the...
22. Sal Khan: “If It Works for 15 Cousins, It Could Work for a Billion People.”
Khan Academy grew out of Sal Khan’s online math tutorials for his extended family. It’s now a platform used by more than 115 million people in 190 countries. So what does Khan want to do next? How...
21. Pete Docter: “What If Monsters Really Do Exist?”
He’s the chief creative officer of Pixar, and the Academy Award-winning director of Soul, Inside Out, Up, and Monsters, Inc. Pete Docter and Steve talk about Pixar’s scrappy beginnings, why it costs...
20. John Donohue: “I'm Frequently Called a Treasonous Enemy of the Constitution.”
He’s a law professor with a Ph.D. in economics and a tendency for getting into fervid academic debates. Over 20 years ago, he and Steve began studying the impact of legalized abortion on crime. John...
19. Marina Nitze: “If You Googled ‘Business Efficiency Consultant,’ I Was the Only Result.”
At 27— and without a college degree — she was named chief technology officer of the Department of Veterans Affairs. Today, Marina Nitze is trying to reform the foster care system. She tells Steve how...
18. Robert Sapolsky: “I Don’t Think We Have Any Free Will Whatsoever.”
He’s one of the world’s leading neuroscientists, with a focus on the physiological effects of stress. (For years, he spent his summers in Kenya, alone except for the baboons he was observing.) Steve...
17. Emily Oster: “I Am a Woman Who Is Prominently Discussing Vaginas.”
In addition to publishing best-selling books about pregnancy and child-rearing, Emily Oster is a respected economist at Brown University. Over the course of the pandemic, she’s become the primary...
16. Joshua Jay: “Humans Are So, So Easy to Fool.”
He’s a world-renowned magician who’s been performing since he was seven years old. But Joshua Jay is also an author, toy maker, and consultant for film and television. Steve Levitt talks to him about...
15. Tim Harford: “If You Can Make Sure You're Not An Idiot, You've Done Well.”
He’s a former World Bank economist who became a prolific journalist and the author of one of Steve Levitt’s favorite books, The Undercover Economist. Tim Harford lives in England, where he’s made it...
Yul Kwon: “Hey, Do You Have Any Bright Ideas?” (Part 2)
He’s so fascinating that Steve Levitt brought him back for a second conversation. Yul Kwon currently works at Google, but he’s been a lawyer, political organizer, government regulator, organ donation...
13. Yul Kwon: “Don't Try to Change Yourself All at Once.”
He has been a lawyer, an instructor at the F.B.I. Academy, the owner of a frozen-yogurt chain, and a winner of the TV show Survivor. Today, Kwon works at Google, where he helped build tools to track...
12. Sue Bird: “You Have to Pay the Superstars.”
She is one of the best basketball players ever. She’s won multiple championships, including four Olympic gold medals and four W.N.B.A. titles — the most recent in 2020, just before turning 40. She...
11. Paul Romer: “I Figured Out How to Get Myself Fired From the World Bank.”
For many economists — Steve Levitt included — there is perhaps no greater inspiration than Paul Romer, the now-Nobel laureate who at a young age redefined the discipline and has maintained a passion...
10. Suzanne Gluck: “I'm a Person Who Can Convince Other People to Do Things”
She might not be a household name, but Suzanne Gluck is one of the most powerful people in the book industry. Her slush pile is a key entry point to the biggest publishers in the U.S., and the authors...
9. Moncef Slaoui: "It’s Unfortunate That It Takes a Crisis for This to Happen"
Born in Morocco and raised mostly by a single mother, Moncef Slaoui is now one of the world’s most influential scientists. As the head of Operation Warp Speed — the U.S. government’s Covid-19 vaccine...
8. Peter Attia: “I Definitely Lost a Lot of IQ Points That Day”
He’s been an engineer, a surgeon, a management consultant, and even a boxer. Now he’s a physician focused on the science of longevity. Peter Attia talks with Steve Levitt about the problem with...
7. Caverly Morgan: "I Am Not This Voice. I Am Not This Narrative."
She showed up late and confused to her first silent retreat, but Caverly Morgan eventually trained for eight years in silence at a Zen monastery. Now her mindfulness-education program Peace in Schools...
6. Nathan Myhrvold: “I Am Interested in Lots of Things, and That's Actually a Bad Strategy”
He graduated high school at 14, and by 23 had several graduate degrees and was a research assistant with Stephen Hawking. He became the first chief technology officer at Microsoft (without having ever...
5. Susan Wojcicki: “Hey, Let’s Go Buy YouTube!”
She was the sixteenth employee at Google — a company once based in her garage — and now she's the C.E.O. of its best-known subsidiary, YouTube. But despite being one of the most powerful people in the...
Steve Levitt: “I’m Not as Childlike as I’d Like to Be”
Steve Levitt has so far occupied the interviewer chair on this show, but in a special live event — recorded over Zoom and presented by WNYC and the Greene Space — the microphone is turned toward him....
4. Ken Jennings: “Don’t Neglect the Thing That Makes You Weird”
It was only in his late twenties that America’s favorite brainiac began to seriously embrace his love of trivia. Now he holds the “Greatest of All Time” title on Jeopardy! Steve Levitt digs into how...
3. Kerwin Charles: “One Does Not Know Where an Insight Will Come From”
The dean of Yale’s School of Management grew up in a small village in Guyana. During his unlikely journey, he has researched video-gaming habits, communicable disease, and why so many...
2. Mayim Bialik: “I Started Crying When I Realized How Beautiful the Universe Is”
She’s best known for playing neurobiologist Amy Farrah Fowler on The Big Bang Theory, but the award-winning actress has a rich life outside of her acting career, as a teacher, mother — and a real-life...
1. Steven Pinker: "I Manage My Controversy Portfolio Carefully”
By cataloging the steady march of human progress, the Harvard psychologist and linguist has become a very public intellectual. But the self-declared “polite Canadian” has managed to enrage people on...
Introducing “People I (Mostly) Admire”
Steve Levitt has spent decades as an academic economist, “studying strange phenomena and human behavior in weird circumstances.” Now he’s turning his curiosity to something new: interviewing some of...
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