Katie Britt's SOTU Response, SVB Collapse Revisited, and Guest Savannah Guthrie

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Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

I got to admit it.

I'm crazy attracted to Senator Britt.

Oh, my God.

I'm doing ketamine therapy this afternoon.

I have my intake, and they said, is there anything you're trying to figure out?

And I'm like,

well,

I'm very attracted to Senator Britt, and it's deeply disturbing.

I want to unpack that.

I mean, I have this fantasy where she comes into my kitchen and just starts saying, you should be ashamed of yourself over and over.

Is that wrong?

Oh, is that wrong?

That's wrong.

It was so ridiculous, but I'm very, I'm very drawn to her.

Oh, Scott.

And by the way, for those of you who are going to excuse me of being a sexist, I objectify Gavin Newsom all the time.

You do.

That's fair, but nonetheless.

Anyway, Katie Britt is the senator from Alabama, the junior senator who did a disastrous.

Could you get over that?

I couldn't.

I couldn't.

It was weird.

And it's become such a viral sensation, and people are having a great way.

Sometimes I love the internet, not because they're dunking on it, but they're so creative in the dunker.

It's really funny.

It's witty.

You know, all these people do.

And I have to say, SNL with Scarlett Johansson did a bang-up job.

Kitty Name America.

My name is Katie Britt, and I have the honor of

serving the great people of Alabama.

But tonight, I'll be auditioning for the part of Scary Mom.

And I'll be performing an original monologue called This Country is Hell.

You see, I'm not just a senator.

I'm a wife, a mother, and the craziest bitch in the Target parking lot.

We got to find out who's the young freak from the GOP comms or from the RNC that was like directing it.

Okay, now be disgusted.

Now be seductive.

Now disgusted.

Seductive.

Disgusted.

Disgusted.

I agree.

I agree.

It was really a, it was such a miss.

It was such a miss.

But yes, she's weirdly compelling.

Isn't she?

She's weirdly.

He's better than Tommy Tuberbill.

Yes, because you, because she, one of the best thing about the Johansson thing is when she had the teacup, like she was from Get Out, like she did the teacup thing.

She had that vibe.

And the weird, their weird taste in cabinetry, just the whole thing just blew my head.

That's not their kitchen.

Come on.

That's not their kitchen.

That was nobody's kitchen.

No, that was nobody's.

Someone chose that kitchen.

Maybe it was their kitchen but they did they took away everything that's in a kitchen i think it was her kitchen well it needs some things in it like nobody has children in that kitchen i can tell you that i'll come to my kitchen she's one up sexy beast i'll tell you that don't you agree we're kind of in a weird way we're kind of riding no i do not she's not a little bit junky

no a little bit junk no not at all she creeps she's the really creepy lesbian you're trying to avoid in the bar that's really what it is you know i'm just telling you wow that would be the most interesting season of the l word If she that would be interesting,

that would be pretty interesting.

They had something like that in a roadway.

I think they had a plot.

I would tune in for that.

Okay, well, I'll talk to my friend Eileen Chaikin and see if she can help you.

We're two minutes in.

First name drop.

Okay, go on.

Well, she is my friend.

I don't know what to tell you.

There's nothing.

The facts are the lesbians all know the lesbians.

Speaking of which, we were just at South by Southwest.

Do you miss me?

We spent a little quality time together.

Did you like it?

I'm being very serious now.

I have, I'm still here.

I have loved this South by Southwest.

I love it.

It's fun.

It was fun.

I love spending time with with you.

The panels were great.

The audiences were great.

I thought the folks who run it here did a fantastic job.

People were, I mean, I think you were in your element.

Well, you know, I had three different people ask me to sign your book, which was kind of humiliating.

What did you write?

What did you write in my book?

I just wrote, don't read this.

No, I said, I write the same thing in every book I sign.

I write Life is So Rich, Scott.

And I put the date.

Oh, that's nice.

But yeah,

your book was freaking everywhere.

Everywhere.

Anyway, what did you think?

I loved it.

I thought it was really well done.

I've always liked South by Southwest.

I don't love CES.

I don't like a lot of these industry gatherings.

But I've always loved, not just the food is so good.

Austin is an amazing city, really.

I'm not a fan of Texas, the whole of Texas,

and how they govern themselves.

But I do love Austin.

Well, it's like you got that out.

Otherwise, we might think you like Texas, Carol.

Well, I don't.

I don't.

Well, anyway, I love Austin is what I love.

And I think it's got a real, it's got a real joy of life kind of thing going on.

Very creative everywhere you go.

You know, it's, it's, someone was telling me as I was walking, was it's like you wish other cities were like big cities.

Like it's really, it's very hot in the summer.

That's one of the bad, bad things.

But when it says South by Southwest, it was actually somewhat cold.

But we did a lot of things.

We had a great time.

We did a live pivot that was really fun.

It's going to air on Wednesday, I think.

Extra bonus episode was super fun.

The crowd was enthusiastic.

But not just that, it was like

we did a panel about at a women's, the female quotient together.

That was nice.

We did a lot of couple things together, which was nice.

Well, you invited all the women's stuff now.

I love that stuff because they're, I think, unduly and unnaturally self-conscious about being perceived as people that don't like men.

They love men.

Whenever I go to these things, they couldn't be nicer and more receptive.

And the nicest compliment I got is when I went to, I think it was She Media.

They said half our audience was men.

That never happens.

And they got to hear important, you know, information about research and breast cancer.

And so they were really thoughtful and grateful.

Yeah, that was lovely.

Did they give you the vibrator?

I did get the vibrator.

I did get the, I don't know if that was trying to, I don't know if they'd spoken to someone or people I'd had sex with and felt like I got several.

I'm sure you did, Kiera.

I'm sure you did.

Yeah, I did.

I did.

I don't know why.

It was an interesting.

I never gotten a vibrator in a swag bag.

I'm just saying.

It was weird.

It was an interesting.

That was the gift this year at South by Southwest.

What are you going to do with it?

Oh, that's a dangerous question to ask me, Kara.

Let's just pretend you didn't.

There's a butt plug in there if you're interested.

Oh, yeah, there's a butt plug and what do you call it?

A dick ring or whatever it is.

I don't know.

Oh, you got that?

No, I like my sex very vanilla and very disappointing.

So I bring both those signs.

Okay, good.

I just, I've never gotten that.

I always get like, you always get like this, the, the energy soda or whatever, or except or whatever.

I got so many vibrators this year.

I phone case or something.

Sex is back.

Yeah.

Sex is back.

Young people need to have more sex.

There's a dearth of sex amongst young people.

Dearth of sex.

That is true.

That is true.

In any case, we will have that bonus episode for you on Wednesday that we taped live on stage where we talked about the looming TikTok ban and moms against social media addiction.

And be sure to check out all our special episodes from South by Southwest on Pivot on Prof.

GFeed.

Oh, and I saw Megan and Harry.

That was a highlight.

They sat next to me at the sell house.

I think I told you.

It really changed my view of him.

I used to think he was a fucking idiot, and now I get it.

I have behaved much more irrationally for women who are much less hot than her.

She is scorching hot.

She's like, Kara, she is Senator Brithoff.

Oh, Senator Britt.

Come on.

She, no, but seriously.

She's so much more beautiful than Senator Britton.

She's

working to objectify women as apparently you're doing.

I'm like, I get it.

All is forgiving, Harry.

I get it.

I get it.

I totally get it.

I get it.

Anyway, we do have a lot to talk about today.

We're going to do a round robin of all kinds of things, including Elon Musk's role in the 2024 election and what's happening with regulation one year after the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank.

Remember that?

Plus, our friend of Pivot today is today's show co-anchor Savannah Guthrie, who has a new book, mostly What God Does, Reflections on Seeking and Finding His Love Everywhere.

I thought it'd be good for you because you talk about faith in a different way, but we'll get to her in a minute.

But I think you have a very deep faith streak in you.

That's my feeling.

I do.

I don't think, I know you say you're an atheist, but I think you're much more spiritual than I have ever been.

And you will be today when you do the ketamine.

Can you just really, we're going to get to the Oscars in a second, but what are you doing in this ketamine therapy, speaking speaking of touching the face of God?

The honest answer is I don't know.

A friend of mine is an investor in ketamine clinics, so I've always been very curious about it.

So he heard I was going to be in South by, so he's sending me to this place called Cougar, and I had an onboarding with him yesterday.

And Kuva.

No, I did Cougar last night at the bar here at the proper.

There's a lot of that here.

But the, I don't know where I got that.

Yeah, I'm doing, I'm doing ketamine therapy.

And I think I've been, I'm like you.

I've never, I've always, it's like burning man for me.

I always plan to do it and then I back out.

We'll see if I back out this time.

I'm so back out and a half.

I want to know what it's like and I don't want to do it.

You know, I have a, I have such a nice life and I have distinctive of the, in all seriousness, I have such a wonderful life and I have really wonderful, deep, meaningful relationships.

And you and I have both said the same thing.

Whatever demons are there, we've managed to suppress them.

Yes, we have.

And I'm just not sure I need to let them out.

Well, they're out a lot, Scott.

I'm sorry.

Yours are out quite a bit.

They dance around a lot.

I think people are aware of them and I think you talk about them.

Yeah, I think you'll be good.

They bring the egg salad.

They bring the eggs.

I'd really like you to do it because I'd like you to tell me what it's like because I don't want to do it.

But I might do it some someday.

But it's interesting.

It's in a control.

It's for people who don't know it's in a controlled environment with a therapist.

Oh, yeah, it's clinical.

Clinical.

And it'll be interesting to see how you feel.

Have you ever done ketamine?

No, I don't.

I've been turned off of it because.

Quite frankly, I just know so many rich private equity and tech bros that no longer drink.

They just do ketamine.

And I just been, it's like when I was in college, Kara, I've never done cocaine.

When I was kicked in the face playing soccer in high school, I used to get terrible bloody noses.

So I thought, okay, cocaine is probably not the right drug for me.

But more than that, it was imprinted on me very early.

A lot of my fraternity brothers used to use cocaine to try and get women.

Like women and women seem to have a special relationship with jewelry and cocaine.

Very sexist, but I also think true.

This is the 80s, but go ahead.

And all the guys, all the guys I knew that were really into cocaine were guys who had no game or no action themselves and used it as a means of trying to attract women who are really into cocaine.

And I also don't like it because it's a very private, it's not a community drug.

When we used to smoke pot, it was like, everybody smoke.

Hey, do you want some?

And we laugh.

Cocaine felt like, oh, let's go in the, let me find a woman who likes cocaine and go into the bathroom and do blow with her.

And it always really turned me off.

And I felt the same way very early about ketamine, all these stories about these tech bros thinking there's a free lunch around some sort of drug.

And I've never done it.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, this will be interesting.

I have never done either of them i've never done cooking people thought i did no no you you don't you don't even drink i can't imagine how you put up with the environment here without drinking i don't know i was i had a delightful uh cranberry juice last night my favorite moment of south by southwest we're talking about this kara we did this this fun game and kara was the moderator and she stood up on a couch and she started to look unstable and like she was going to fall and i'm not exaggerating Every business person at Vox screamed and leapt to try and save her.

They saw their entire future flash before her eyes.

It was like they were Clint Eastwood in the line of fire.

They would have taken a bullet for it.

That's true, but you know who stabilized me?

A pair of lesbians.

You did you notice sitting?

They were great.

They're really great.

Yeah.

Yeah, they're influencers.

They're brought by my friend.

I met them.

The cooking one and the

Persian lesbian.

They're fantastic.

They're my new friends.

Just brought a house in the Hollywood Hills.

Yes, exactly.

You're hanging with the lesbians, too.

Lesbians buy homes?

That's so fascinating.

Yes.

Anyway, let's get to the thing.

One thing we missed.

They're going to want to have kids.

Yes, I know.

It's crazy.

Okay.

We didn't miss the Oscars last night.

I watched bits and pieces of it because we were at this party,

which was kind of a baller time to run a party.

But Oppenheimer won best picture at the Oscars.

Other highlights of the night, it actually was apparently a very good show and it looked pretty good.

Ryan Gosling performed, I'm Just Ken, from Barbie, joined by Slash.

It looked fantastic.

I saw it in the video.

John Cena walked on a stage wearing nothing but the winner envelope for best costume 50 years after the infamous Oscar Streakers incident.

And he's a handsome man.

And of course, host Jimmy Kimmel, reading the review of his performance he found online, which was by former President Donald Trump, happening in real time, was very funny.

Let's listen.

I just got a review and

has there ever been a worse host than Jimmy Kimmel at the Oscars?

His opening was that of a less than average person trying too hard to be something which he is not and never can be.

Get rid of Kimmel and perhaps replace him with another washed up but cheap ABC talent, George Slopanopoulos.

He would make everybody on stage look bigger, stronger, and more glamorous, blah, blah, blah.

Make America great again.

Okay, now,

see if you can guess which former president just posted that on TrueSay.

Anyone?

No?

Well, thank you, President Trump.

Thank you for watching.

I'm surprised you're still, isn't it past your jail time?

Scott, did you watch?

I thought it was really good.

Everything I saw was adorable and delightful.

It looked like a real tight show.

I heard ray reviews on it.

Look, 19 million people watched it.

55 million people watched it in 1998.

But the shampoo effect of

I think

I'm like most people.

I didn't watch it, but I've been seeing clips of it.

So it's still relevant.

It's just the difficulty, and

I spoke to the board or the Oscars or whatever they call it, the Academy, of

the challenge they face is how do they,

they're still relevant, but how do they monetize that relevance?

Because when their deal is up, and I think Disney, they're just not going to have nearly the bargaining power when they were negotiating that deal with three times the audience.

But

it's still relevant.

And what it does is

you love the movie, The Holdovers, but I saw that the Woman Won Best Supporting Act or something for it.

And it's like, it immediately reminded me, oh, I have to watch that.

So it does have relevance and influence.

But it was, it was good.

It was good.

But you're right.

It's not going in the right direction.

And I'm not sure what they can do about it.

They'll just have to hold it and just have lesser people there, I guess.

I guess, and get less money for it and just let them have their party.

I don't know anything else but that.

Another thing, President Biden, speaking of someone who did a little better, brought in $10 million in 24 hours after the State of the Union.

For context, the Biden campaign and affiliated Democratic allies raised $42 million for the whole month of January.

Really incredible.

Just incredible.

An incredible win because he looked like he's not dead because he's not dead.

You were right.

The expectations are so low that he's surprised the upside.

Remind me, have you heard these stories?

And supposedly this has happened several times where people go to, you know, to the morgue to identify mom and she sits up and everyone is, you know, everyone is suitably and justifiably freaked out that

dead mom and mom sits up.

That's kind of what happened here.

We're like, okay, everyone was sort of expecting him to drool or fall down and he didn't.

He was good.

Or maybe he perhaps wasn't as bad as you thought he was.

And that was ginned up by the right wing.

Maybe you got taken advantage of by people, and he wasn't as bad as people think he was.

Look, after seeing Senator Britt, I'm down for being taken advantage of by a crazy right wing.

Okay, anyway.

Abuse me.

Do with me what you will.

I shall.

I shall.

You poor cabinet that sticks.

You're saucy minks.

You're saucy.

Oh, God.

That's what you need to do.

I thought he did great.

Yeah.

Yeah, he did great.

And, you know, I think he's really pushed it back, and he's actually leaning into, oh, I'm old.

Yeah, I'm old and making fun of it and doing really funny things.

I think smart.

You own it.

You own it.

You own it.

You own it.

That's how he's going to win this.

I mean, if you watch both those things, I don't know.

The clips are relevant.

It's kind of like the Academy Awards.

I don't think a lot of people tune into the State of the Union or something.

They did.

That's not true.

But it was just a general, you take away certain themes.

And the themes you take away is he's old, but he's still alive.

And she's crazy.

I mean, it was sort of like, yeah, we're, we're old, but they're crazy.

They're crazy.

And also, she managed to get to

talk about the craziness and stuff like that, including making a mistake.

And let me go into this.

You did talk about Senator Katie Britt's Republican response to State of the Union.

Britt spoke in this dramatic fashion, mocked by Scarlett Johansson.

Besides the dramatics, Britt mentioned a woman she'd spoken to at the U.S.-Mexico border who had been at sex trafficked, except the story she referenced happened under George W.

Bush with John M.

Katz first pointed out.

It just was a loser night for the Republicans.

I know these things are just minute by minute, but it was not a good, good, it was, it sort of reset everything and the numbers shifted dramatically.

It was really interesting.

I think you're going to see it in the polls, but Biden, everyone's like, oh, he's okay, like that.

Like, and then it was, you know what I mean?

Like that was, that's what he needed to do, as we said he needed to do.

He has to keep doing it and being out there and being in social media and all kinds of social media, but he certainly

doesn't,

he did himself a favor and they did themselves no favors whatsoever by lying and being crazy.

Yeah, that that was, you know, you don't, I think, well, I don't know.

We have a bias.

You know, if you're going to talk about that stuff, this is pretty sensitive stuff that obviously, and only that, the woman didn't get a heads up.

They were going to reference her.

And it happened during the Bush administration, I think.

It just, I don't know.

It just,

more than anything, okay, misinformation is bad, but I think worse than that, you know, you got to have your shit buttoned up when you're talking about things like that.

It's one thing to lie about the economy or whatever, but I don't know.

I found it really just

tacky, just sort of, okay, you're going to weaponize this woman's suffering and get it wrong.

Yeah, I agree.

I agree.

This is how they tell stories.

This is what Trump does it all the time.

It just doesn't work for other people.

Trump lies almost continually.

Everything comes out of his mouth.

You have to fact check.

But in this case, it doesn't work for them all.

The rest of them can't do it because I think people catch them and they look stupid.

Speaking of stupid and weird, Tate Middleton, the Princess of Wales, is apologizing for any confusion caused by a family picture that several photo agencies retracted after concerns of digital manipulation.

She wrote, like many amateur photographers, I do occasionally experiment with editing, the princess said in her apology posted on social media, but it brought more confusion.

The photo was released over the weekend on Mother's Day in the UK, seemingly to dispel some recent conspiracy theories about her whereabouts after her surgery.

She hasn't been seen.

She's been seen a little bit and doesn't look great, actually.

And the picture didn't look like she looked in a paparazzi picture caught of her.

But But conspiracy theories continued, as so on social media continued noting things that appeared to be off about the photo, including hand positions, leave alignment, that the grass was green and it's winter in Britain,

and the trees had leaves on them.

You know,

I'm sure you've been very concerned about Kate Middleton, but here you are in Britain.

It's not good.

And the British press apparently just knew it, that it was a, that it had some editing in it.

I don't know.

It seems like they're doing themselves a huge disservice and sort of keeping this story alive, just that she, something's really wrong with her, or she's divorcing him.

That's the other rumor or whatever, because she didn't have her rings on her fingers in the picture.

Anyway, what do you think?

I like both of them.

I think they're, I think it's not a,

I'm going to describe it as a hard job.

I describe it as a strange job.

And I think they do their best.

I think they both are real-class acts.

I just, I think they take their loyalty to their family and to the crown really seriously.

I think he's going to be a great king at some point.

I like her.

I don't, to be honest, Kara, I didn't see the big deal.

I wondered how much, how much editing and touch-ups were done for Tim Cook's cover on Vanity Fair.

I didn't see the big deal here.

I see the big deal in that there's already these conspiracy.

You know, everyone's like, now I'm a Kate Middleton truther.

You know what I mean?

Like, I just think it creates undue.

King Charles

has been sick.

It's the lack of disclosure and then doing something that was a little bit, you would never put out any kind of photo.

Now, you have AP and Reuters saying your photo stinks.

That's not like, it's not like, you know, Aunt Julie in the Midwest, like studying every bit of it.

It creates conspiracy theories by being so informative.

You cannot be information sneaky in this environment, especially in the AI environment.

you know here you had like um harry and megan saying these people lie all the time you just don't realize it and the press goes along with it.

And this is what they did.

You know, here they did.

They're obviously not telling the full truth about what's going on with her.

And she does have a right to privacy, but she kind of doesn't have a right to privacy in a weird way.

I mean, she has a right to it, but she doesn't, that's just not where she lives.

Part of the job.

You get to wear jewels and everyone, I mean, there's just a downside.

And she signed up for it.

Yeah, I just think it was.

It was ridiculous.

Touching up a picture is crazy because, you know, in today's world, you can't do that.

You can't do it.

I mean, I I really hope that, I really hope that Kate and William.

I mean, I'm a fan.

I'm a fan of the crown or whatever you want to call it, the royal family.

I think they're great for Britain.

I think they're a great symbol.

I think they're great for tourism.

I think they create more economic value.

And

people seem to enjoy them.

If Kate and William were to split up, I think that would be.

really damaging.

I mean, you got the other brother is like, you know, took off with a, you know, a woman, a a 40-year-old woman who's been divorced once who claims that the family of 90-year-old white people are racist.

I mean, and then, and if they get divorced, oh, gosh, I think it would be like, okay, what the royal, it's not really a family anymore, it's just the royals.

Anyways, I like them.

I hope that's not true.

I hope that there are.

Yeah, I don't know.

I just think they're creating undue.

They're going to have to come clean now, these mistakes.

And this amateur thing, even her statement, they just keep getting caught in stupid little lies.

And therefore, it creates,

they have to understand how conspiracy theories work.

And they're literally doing a favor for every conspiracy theorist, you know, that you try to bat down.

But in this case, I'm like, what did happen?

Like, and I'm not that interested in her.

Yeah, but the age-old adage, and it's really, it's hard to listen to, but you know, it's true.

It's never the infraction.

It's the cover-up that gets you in trouble.

Yeah, there's no infraction.

I mean, if she's sick, she's sick.

If they're having marital problems or having marital problems, it doesn't, you know, I don't know, but everyone feels in the white space is your favorite expression.

Everyone feels in the white space now.

The guy, the guy who put on a masterclass in crisis management around poor behavior was David Letterman.

Do you remember he was sleeping with one of the younger staff?

Yeah.

And rather than cover it up and lie about it, he's like, okay, he went on a show.

Because he was getting blackmailed.

He went on a show.

Yeah, but a lot of people get blackmailed and still continue to lie about it.

Yeah, no, I know that.

He went on a show and admitted it and apologized for it.

And everyone, people, the thing about Americans is Americans love to forgive.

They do.

And as long as you see Donald Trump, go ahead.

As long as you kind of come clean and apologize and seem somewhat and overcorrect, if you will, I think Americans love to forgive.

What they don't like is when you consistently lie, because they send something up and then everyone turns into like a personal private investigator.

Yeah, they do.

Now you can.

The people spent, I looked at some of these Cape Middleton sites.

They are like, honestly, they could all be reporters.

They're like, and this, and this was here, and this.

I was like, wow, good.

Well, it's weird it's weird and you know when it's done right it's amazing when people do those those group investigative things but this seems a lot of energy on something terrible like just not of our business but it is our business anyway let's go on a quick break when we come back we'll look at the collapse of silicon valley bank one year later and we'll speak with a friend of pivot savannah guthrie

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Scott, we're back.

It's been a year since the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank.

Remember that?

We saw one of the largest bank runs in U.S.

history with customers trying to withdraw $42 billion in a single day.

For full disclosure, Vox was also caught up in it, too.

So was your co-host, Kara.

Scott Galloway was also caught up in it.

Two other banks, First Republic and Signature Bank, also collapsed in SBB's wake after government intervention and some major restructuring.

Silicon Valley Bank is now operating as a subsidiary of First Citizens Bank.

One year later, regulation is slowly materializing after months of floating fixes.

The Fed and other regulators could unveil new rules this spring.

Talk about this, because it sort of went away whether regional banks were vulnerable.

And

this was a particularly unusual regional bank in a lot of ways because it was industry specific.

But just this last week, New York Community Bank accepted a a billion dollar rescue package from the former Treasury Secretary C.

Mnuchin, among others, to stay afloat.

So

what do you think about this?

Well, I'll talk about what went down.

I think there's a lot here.

I remember getting emails from people from BCs and investors and CEOs and companies I'm involved with.

And they said, have you heard about this?

Should we take our money up?

And I said, it's up to you, but give me a minute.

And I, because I didn't know what's going on, I remember it was a dinner.

And I went and I went to the FDIC, has a website.

And do you know how many people, how many depositors have lost money?

None.

Zero.

Zero.

So I went back and I said, look, I don't, you have to do what you're going to do here.

But what I really don't like is all these people, you know, all these small men in search of a balcony on Twitter, claiming there's going to be lines around the corner of banks, creating this incel panic room so they can get attention.

And

here's the thing.

They did.

They moved in, they shorted up, and

they ring-fenced the contagion.

Now,

going meta, it indicates a few things.

One, there are certain externalities and risks we haven't fully contemplated or registered based on the fluidity of capital flows or ease of access to certain things based on everyone having a supercomputer in their pocket.

So usually when there was a bank run, you had the evening or the weekend to calm people people down, or they had to wait in line for an hour to get their money out.

But now within two minutes, you can transfer all your money to JP Morgan, which a lot of people did.

And you can start a bank run on Twitter.

No longer.

I don't think any longer you could.

That went out of, I don't think it could now, but go ahead.

The other thing, I mean, a few things here.

One, the most recent bank earnings showed every bank is struggling except for the one that they could start loaning out money at higher interest rates than they pay.

And that is Jamie Dimon is hands down the biggest beneficiary of SVB's collapse.

If you look at JP Morgan's earnings, they were champagne and cocaine.

And overnight, they just had this massive additional capital base that Janet Yellen gave them for free.

And a ton of capital washed into JPMorgan because they thought, I don't want to deal with this shit.

I'm just going to go to the biggest, most secure bank that is now too big to fail, which is JPMorgan.

And it also indicates that we should be more thoughtful, something I'm very worried about.

And I think it's

the same problem that caused this bank run is present with something else.

My roommate, my junior at UCLA, was had an addictive personality and he liked to gamble.

And this really shady guy would show up and it was his bookie.

And I remember thinking, I would never do this shit.

This guy has just said, this feels so sketchy.

But now it's on your phone and Charles Barkley and Kevin Hart are telling you to do it.

And I think we're going to see.

a massive increase in young men who are much more risk aggressive engaging in gambling.

Yeah, it is.

It's absolutely.

Gaming has always been, it's like video games.

They're there and they're bigger than you think and they're in the similar genre.

Yeah, I agree with you.

But just to just to close the loop,

I take the other side of this.

All the calls for regulation and everything, I think this was an example of the banking system and its regulation working almost perfectly.

Because

when Senator Warren calls for one-to-one banking being a boring business, it's like, okay, you realize, Senator Warren, you're going to dramatically slow the economy.

Because the miracle of the modern U.S.

banking system is the following.

$100 deposited into a bank, as long as they all don't ask for it back at the same time, and it's different people with different time horizons, the bank can turn around and loan out $120 or $130 to consumers and small businesses who can buy more cars, build more plants.

And because they have different time horizons and different needs, they don't all ask for it back at the same time.

So effectively, our economy is run on leverage that is very low cost and results in an ability to essentially grow the economy much faster.

If you don't have, on what I'll call irregular but consistent basis, a few bank failures, it means you're not aggressive about loaning out the banks.

Right, it's true.

But

they still could have, they moved, they did a great job.

I 100% agree.

But, you know, they have to still prop up these local banks and find a way to not let this become one single giant mega bank.

So that's, I think, the area they should focus on is mega banks.

But they have FDIC insurance.

I get it.

But too much consolidation is an issue.

There should be a series of different national banks.

Agreed.

That's where they need to focus.

And anyway, former President Donald Trump reportedly wants Elon Musk to speak at the GOP convention.

According to CNBC, this follows Musk and Trump's recent meeting down in Florida, along with some Republican donors.

Trump is probably seeking cash infusion for his campaign.

Trump was just on CNBC a little while ago, and when asked about Elon, he said, I've liked him.

We obviously had opposing views on a minor subject called electric cars.

Musk said he's not going to give money to Trump or Biden's campaigns, but he hasn't

rolled into PACs.

And speaking of that, interestingly, a story I think you should look at: this New York Times investigation by David Fahrenhold and Ryan Mack.

His multi-billion dollar charitable foundation has been haphazard and largely self-serving.

The Times dug into the Musk Foundation and discovered a number of donations, had links to Elon, his employees, or his businesses.

Musk's philanthropy also makes him eligible for large tax breaks, and his foundation has failed in recent years to give away the bare minimum required for these tax breaks.

We only have a second.

This is all I have to say: is that he needs Trump and Trump needs him for money or somehow.

So he's whatever, if he speaks or whatever, I think he'll do, he'll be nuts.

I don't think they should, I should think about not having him because he could say anything.

And the second, although he can be very funny too, and charming.

So if the charming one shows up, it could be very helpful.

As the foundation, what a surprise.

He's self-serving and non-generous.

The richest man in the world is not very generous with his philanthropy, and he'll do it so that it suits him.

Oh, I I think he's a lock.

I think he's going to speak there.

He has an enormous following, and he comes across as, okay, he voted for, supposedly voted for Biden and Hillary, but now he's on board with Trump.

And there's rumors that Musk guaranteed his bond.

So,

so

I think this, I think this makes a lot, let me put it this way, crazier, less popular people have spoken

at both conventions.

Peter Thiel was there.

Yeah, I think they'll probably pick him out.

I think it's, I, you never know what he's, I think it's a big risk.

It's like the Katie Broad thing: it's a risk because he could do anything.

That's the philanthropy.

Of course, this is what he's doing.

He could hardly care, hardly cares about this stuff.

He just did it for, he's not doing it to help people like other people are.

In any case, enough, Elon Musk.

Apparently, he had a rave.

Did you go to that there at Austin?

I was not invited.

I was not invited either.

Anyway, all right.

Oh, well, too bad.

Anyway, let's bring in our friend of Pivot.

Savannah Guthrie is the co-anchor of The Today Show and NBC News' chief legal correspondent.

She's also the author of Mostly What God Does: Reflections on Seeking and Finding His Love Everywhere.

I want to be clear: this is the real Savannah Guthrie we're talking to, not the AI or deep fake Savannah Guthrie.

We'll talk about that in a minute.

But I first wanted to talk about the impetus for the book because when you told me about it,

we text from time to time, you said you're, it's not what you think it's going to be.

And you were almost apologetic.

It was interesting

and that this would surprise people who know you as Savannah Guthrie, journalist, interviewer.

You do tough interviews.

You're on the Today Show.

You're very well known.

You're talking about your faith here.

Talk to me about what the impetus was because I was surprised, actually.

I had no idea.

I know.

I was surprised too.

And I mean, almost apologetic is just my zone.

You know, that's where I live.

That's where, that's the emotional space I inhabit for most of my day.

But, you know, honestly, my my faith has been important to me.

It always has been.

And all my close friends and my colleagues, everyone knows that.

So I don't mean that they would be surprised, but more that I was surprised that it was something I wanted to write about or put out there publicly, not because I was ashamed, but because it's so personal.

It's so vulnerable.

I mean, if you're going to write a book about faith and it is in any way authentic, then you're more or less putting your heart out there.

And in this world, which I don't have to remind you, that's really terrifying.

And so for me to put it out there like that, I'm certainly not holding myself up as any kind of model of behavior or anything.

I'm not any kind of theologian or biblical scholar.

It's just reflections from a real person, a real life, more learning more from disappointments and setbacks than any triumph, that's for sure.

Let's leave aside the performative people who talk about religion, who do it for some other reason.

You were a quiet, faithful person, as most people are.

You know what I mean?

That people, they don't, do you think people are scared?

That's scared and a shame to talk about it, but you don't, because it's so personal.

That's why you didn't want to, you don't talk about it.

Or publicly, I guess.

Yeah, publicly.

I mean, I have talked about it, you know, from time to time, which is how this opportunity to write about it came to me.

You know, I've certainly never run from it.

But, you know, I think people are quiet about their faith because, for one thing, isn't the mantra you're not supposed to talk about religion or politics?

Well, I mean, one of those has to be.

Well, yes, it is, but that doesn't happen.

That doesn't happen.

Yes.

It doesn't.

It doesn't.

But also because, you know, this isn't, I'm not out here trying to proselytize or persuade.

The truth of the matter is I never thought I would write a book about God.

I never thought I'd write any book.

And I, and I didn't want to, really.

I was happy to just have this be something personal to me.

But when the opportunity came up, I found myself not able to say the immediate no I've said to every other offer of any kind of writing whatsoever.

And the reason was was because it seemed intriguing.

It seemed challenging.

It seemed terrifying.

And it's the subject I'm most passionate and interested in.

And I'm always telling, you know, especially young producers or interns or people that have ever asked me for advice, I always say, you know, get out of your comfort zone.

Anything interesting you do in your life will be outside your comfort zone.

It's on the other side of a big risk that you take.

And it had been a while since I had taken my own advice.

And so I thought, I'm going to try.

By the way, it's a bestseller.

So it's doing, people are responding to it.

In the book, you write about some deeply personal topics, including the loss of your father, who died when you were teenagers.

You also talk about your husband and your kids and how you see both marriage and parenthood as metaphors for relationships with God.

Talk a little bit about this, why you wrote it the way you did.

Well, the big revelation is mostly what God does.

That's the title of the book.

And the rest of the sentence is mostly what God does is love you.

And I grew up in the church.

I had a traditional kind of Baptist upbringing.

And there's a lot about that that I still love and treasure.

But there was also a lot of guilt and shame and rules and a sense for me of always failing, never measuring up, and always kind of wondering what this looming God figure might have thought of me.

And through a life of, again, more mistakes than anything else, What I came to realize is that mostly what God is doing at any given time is loving us.

It comes actually from scripture.

It comes from a verse in Ephesians that was retranslated by a scholar named Eugene Peterson.

And the verse goes, watch what God does and you do it too, the way children learn proper behavior from their parents.

Mostly what God does is love you.

When I read that sentence years and years ago, it was a radical reframing of how I thought about God rather than this angry taskmaster scolding or being disappointed or, you know, having a bill of particulars of all the ways we and all of humanity fails.

Mostly what God is doing is loving you.

That's true for me.

It's true for you.

It's even true for Scott.

I'm teasing, but the thing is, is that I wrote about it in the terms of parenthood because that was another moment where when I had kids, I was in my 40s.

I was so lucky to get to have kids at that late date, long after I thought I had screwed up everything and would never have my chance.

And to have a child is truly the most, I think the closest we'll ever get to understanding how God relates to us.

You know, we love our kids.

We're amazed by our kids.

We delight in our kids.

We relish their little accomplishments.

We delight in their milestones.

We not only love them, we often like them.

We adore them.

Well, that's how God feels about every human being.

And I'm not making this up.

Yes, I know, but there are other versions of it.

Scott, why don't you come in here?

By the way, you know,

God is dog spelled backwards.

So, dog.

There you go.

It's Savannah.

It's really nice to meet you.

Hi, Scott.

First off, congratulations on your success.

I think this is a brave book for someone in your position to write because you're just subjecting yourself to a lot of scrutiny and your vulnerability.

And I can see why it's a bestseller.

So acknowledging that

I love what you've written.

I love what David Brooks has written about the importance of community and how much comfort religion gives people.

And that there's definitely a

hole in American society where people are having trouble finding each other and the agency of something bigger than them.

And religion plays an incredibly important role.

And as a devout atheist, I also want to acknowledge that I think we would probably benefit from from an upsurge in religious institutions in America.

Having said that,

I worry or what would you do to provide comfort to people when you say mostly what God does?

What I see mostly God being used for, quite frankly, right now, is oftentimes good people do good things, bad people do bad things.

When good people do horrendous things, usually God is at the center or some form of their vision of God.

And what I see in America is a religion and legislation that the line is being blurred and being used for, quite frankly, incredible misogyny, incredible discrimination.

So, what would you do to provide comfort to people that recognize the importance that church plays, but see increasingly that God is being, if you will, weaponized?

Well, I understand those

sentiments.

You know, I live in the real world too.

And, you know, I write a lot about doubt in the book.

And the doubt isn't, does God exist?

The doubt, the crucible of doubt for any deeply thinking, faithful person is, where is God?

You know, does,

why would a good God allow unmerited suffering?

Yeah, and you say this.

You say this in one chapter you write, waking each morning to an overnight news summary, which often has a headline after headline of bad news you wrote.

It feels like taking 20 punches to the gut in rapid succession.

Yeah.

And I mean, I hear and understand exactly what Scott is laying out.

I mean, again, I live in this world too.

I would only say that what you're describing has more to do with humans than it does to do with God.

And I understand,

but

I would say try to get back to the source material.

Go back to basics.

You know, look for God for yourself.

Look within.

I mean, looking out in the world, whether, I mean, frankly, any human institution and every human, even our most treasured and most devout or most faithful or most moral humans we have, they're still human.

And this is, in my faith view, this is not the world that God intended.

We live in a broken world.

And there's just no getting around that.

And P.S., I don't have the answers to that in this little yellow book.

I don't.

The only thing I say is that I believe that God yearns to engage with us even on our doubts, even with our doubts.

In fact,

I think that's part of faith.

I think doubt is kind of faith being worked out.

It's not an exception to faith.

It's an aspect of faith.

Indifference and apathy.

Now, that might get you a little more opposite of faith.

So I understand all those doubts and I don't try to run from them.

I try to explain how I have dealt with them either personally with my own setbacks or the world that I see that breaks my heart every single day.

What do you say to, he just said he's a devout atheist, right?

Scott just said, I happen to be more of an agnostic because I don't know.

And I, every now and then.

It seems you're a closeted atheist.

No, I'm not.

No, I'm not because I've been literally walking by churches recently and thinking I'd like to go in.

I don't know why.

I don't know.

I don't.

And I don't go in, by the way.

Community.

Maybe.

I'm sorry.

I don't mean to answer for that.

Okay.

I don't know.

I don't know.

No.

It's something else.

I don't know what it is.

It's not.

I don't want to see more people, Scott.

That's something I want to do the opposite of.

But what

it's true, Savannah.

Who are you writing for?

Are you writing to reach those people?

Or

what's the goal here for you?

I mean, the book is not for any particular person.

I really mean that it is not in any way proselytizing.

If it's persuasive, that's not what it's intended to do.

It's a description of a relationship with God.

And I hope that it's ultimately appealing because I think...

God is quite compelling.

So I write about, there's a chapter called The Fragrance of the Gospel, right?

Which is a line from scripture.

But I would say, you know, the idea is it's a fragrance, right?

It's not a stench.

It's not an odor.

It's not the person next to you wearing too much perfume.

It's a fragrance.

I hope that a life that is lived with recognition that God loves every human heart, yourself, and every human you see on the street.

I hope that life carries a fragrance that is appealing and compelling.

But no, I'm not trying to write to any particular person.

I'm trying to write to every particular person who cares to pick up this book.

And in a lot of ways, I'm writing to myself because

this encouragement is something I need all the time.

I mean, I still need to be reminded that God loves me, that even more radically, that God could like me.

I mean, this is, if you could let that in, if you could really let it in, even for a moment, it's pretty transformative, but it's not the kind of thing that you learn once and then it stands for all time.

It's like when you get married, you don't say, I love you, sweetie.

And then in 30 years, you're like, remember, I told you on our wedding day.

No, you are in it every single day.

And you have to continue to seek that connection.

And that's how I think about faith as well.

Scott, by the way, I love you, Scott.

Sorry, go ahead.

I love you too, Kara.

Thank you for saying that.

Should I leave?

No, no, it's okay.

So I'm asking this question generally for an answer, not as a comment.

What advice, I know you have kids.

I have have 13 and 16-year-old boys, and I genuinely struggle with the role that I should play in determining what the role religion should play in their life.

As someone who believes at some point I'll look into their eyes and I believe our relationship will come to an end when I die,

I also recognize as someone who spent a lot of time in temples and churches that there is something wonderful for kids about being involved in a religious institution.

But I struggle with how how to incorporate it in a thoughtful way.

Anyways, what advice would you have for someone who

buys into the institutions, not necessarily the lineage, and sees some of the danger?

And quite frankly, if I woke up one day and my kid was super religious, I got to be honest with you, Savannah, I would be heartbroken.

But at the same time, I realize the value it can play in their lives, and I want to incorporate it in a thoughtful way.

What advice would you have uh uh for for parents to feel the same way

yeah well i mean i'm definitely with with you asked me but i definitely do not present myself who as somebody who could give any kind of advice on parenting as i'm just struggling along blindly myself but i'll tell you what i do i'm my husband is jewish we have an interfaith household what i have decided and this is a little different because i do carry a deep faith within me.

So what I try to do is share that with my kids.

And yes, to a certain extent, you know, you're talking about religious institutions.

I have, I go to church.

I've always belonged to a religious institution, but to me, I don't let the religious institutions,

I don't like that, I don't let them ruin God for me.

You know, I try to know God for myself, know Jesus for himself through scriptures, through prayer, through personal interaction.

And of our religious institutions, which are imperfect as all humans are, I try to take with grace the best that they have to offer

and then have grace with their failings.

But what I try to do is teach my kids about the God that I know and not just in a way of dragging them to church, although I do.

My sister says in our growing up, she said, God was the sixth member of our family.

And what she meant by that was we were always kind of in conversation with God or about God.

You know, and when my kids have a problem, I might introduce God into the topic.

This is easier for me because I believe in God and you don't.

But I think that's how I try to do it.

And if you, you know, don't have those feelings, you feel strongly, that's different.

But if somebody was wondering, they might just say, especially with a 13 and 16 year old who's, I have no doubt your boys are quite smart as you are.

You know, it's okay if you want to investigate that a little bit.

And you have to understand that faith is

intellectual, but it's also spiritual and emotional.

We're on multi-dimensional realms here.

Okay.

So, you know, you can't, nobody can sit here and prove it to you and give you a set of facts.

Even if they gave you incontrovertible facts, it wouldn't be enough.

Faith is, in the end, a leap.

And if I had older kids, I think that's what I'd say to them.

My little kids, you know, these, these, they're seven and nine now, as they start to ask questions.

My view is I told them what I know.

They will choose for themselves their faith or no faith at all.

And that will be their choice.

I only know my responsibility is to expose them to the God that I know.

How do you incorporate

your husband being Jewish?

How do you incorporate it?

Because there's a lot of families like this.

There's like my family, my wife is Jewish, but we haven't done anything at all.

And I wouldn't bring them to church.

Although, with my older kids, what my ex-wife did was she took them to all different churches all the time.

Like she would go to a temple, she would go to a Sikh temple, she would go to a Baptist.

She brought them to a lot of Unitarian was where she tended to zero out on, but

she took them to a lot of places, which I thought was kind of a great idea.

I couldn't, I didn't.

I think,

I mean, look, my view is sort of give God some access to their hearts and let him do the rest.

I mean, why do we act like we're going to, what we say is somehow going to be what they end up believing anyway?

So I feel a responsibility because I do feel my faith so strongly that I want to share with them what I know.

My husband, he comes from the Jewish tradition and he shares his traditions and we let those all live alongside each other.

Now, look, we don't have to get into chapter and verse why at some point, although there's so much in common between our faiths, why at some point there may be questions and a conflict.

And when that day comes, I hope that we can answer it with as much love, understanding, grace, and humility as possible.

for all we know and all we don't know.

But, you know, there's a, my kids used to go, they don't go to this school anymore, but it wasn't a religious church, a religious school, but it had religious, it was an old religious school, but 100 years later in New York City, it didn't.

But they still had chapel every week.

And what I loved about it was, you know, the chapel had nothing religious in it, but it was space and time for something other than the here and now, for something other than what's right in front of you.

So maybe it's a long-winded way of getting to something of an answer, Scott, which is to, however you do it, to leave a little space.

And if God chooses to enter that space, well, won't you be lucky?

even though scott you'll be in despair

why should anything change why should anything change this let me just tell you savannah you don't know that but one of the things scott's doing this afternoon is going for a ketamine therapy session he's trying it for the first time so this is gonna fuck him up this is gonna be good i may see god there's a decent chance i'm gonna see god in about 60 minutes well you know what scott all i have my big view and i write about this in the book is god speaks our language like you open your heart and you give a little access point then let god do the rest.

He's God.

You're not.

Yeah.

Yes.

As you were sitting here thinking, the reason I am interested, I grew up Catholic and they hated gay people.

They did.

They did.

They did.

And that was what made me reject it so strongly.

And I thought they were horrible in so many ways, the people that ran the church, including around sexual assault and stuff.

But one of the things that I think I'm attracted to is the quiet.

It's so quiet in there.

And I think you're right.

Being quiet is a very difficult thing these days.

But I do have to ask you about these AI-generated AI-generated companion workbooks being sold to a company your book.

Mine are, there's full books of Karis Wisher with really creepy looking Karis Wisher faces on them.

What you want, I don't look hot.

Stop it.

You look hot on those books.

This is not going there right now.

With Savannah, we have a nice guest in our team.

We have a nice lady with us.

Stop it.

What did you think when you

brought them up to me?

What did you think when you first saw them pop up?

And these are workbooks, workbooks that they sell them to accompany your book, and you had nothing to do with them.

And you could do a workbook, for example.

Well, yes.

I mean, and here's the thing.

My mother's the one who told me about it.

She said, oh, honey, I bought your workbook.

I'm like, what workbook?

And then she told me to look it up.

And then I saw it.

And, you know, what is horrifying about it is, well, I mean, first of all, who knows what the heck it says with our names on it?

But also people spend their real money.

It's not like it's $1.

It was $14.99.

Actually, at one of my book events, this nice lady brought it to me.

She said, I just wanted you to know there are these fake workbooks.

And I said, oh,

I'm all over it.

I know.

And I, of course, immediately said it to the publisher, but there's very little they can do.

If the, I don't understand it, you know, totally from a legal perspective.

If there's a true likeness to your book, like there were a few that came on that were light yellow like mine, they could get those taken down, but the others they don't.

And it's just really unfortunate because people are spending their money on it.

And also for authors and even publishers, you know, that's, that's a book not sold if somebody's buying a workbook that's fake.

Right.

No, 100%.

I hope you know I complained to the fake union was on your behalf.

So, you know, I just was like, it was like crazy, but they can't do anything.

Scott, final question.

So when you were, when you and your boyfriend, now husband, were thinking about building a life together.

And you, I don't know if you had the conversation around religion, but it's, it's unlikely unless people meet at church or temple that their exact views on this topic calibrate perfectly.

And did you have conversations around this?

Did you find you needed to accommodate?

Did one person grow into it more than the other?

Was it less important to one person than the other?

So did it shape more around who was important to?

Talk about how you decided that religion should morph or not such that you could shape a life together.

We talked about it a lot.

And, you know, of course, I came up in a tradition where you weren't supposed to marry outside the faith.

And I think his tradition probably was the same as well.

So right there, we're already, you know, heretics in some sense.

But we talked about it it a ton.

And we actually, this isn't the only reason that we've faffed around and dated for five long years before getting married, but it is one of the topics that came up.

How can we make this work and still have integrity with both of our faiths?

And that's something that we're trying to do and not water down either one.

And, you know,

I kind of indicated this when they're little, it's easier to do that.

When they're older, I anticipate, because I believe my kids, I hope I'm raising smart thinking kids who aren't afraid to ask hard questions.

You know, I anticipate that that will come up and that we will deal with it as it does.

But what I knew I couldn't do was in any way water down or walk away from my faith.

And my husband has known this about me since.

our very first date and in no way would ever ask me to.

I have to give him a ton of credit too.

I mean, for me to not only be this person, but then to be in this strange position where now I'm writing a book about faith, which is so out there.

You know, he never once was like, well, that's great, sweetie, but do you need to?

He

completely and totally supported me, which I am so grateful for.

And the biggest thing I've learned is whether you have a lot of faith or a lot of doubt or something altogether different, I do think to your point, Scott, people long for connection and they want to have conversations that are deep and meaningful.

And I've had more conversations, even with friends I've had forever since writing this book.

I mean, even Kara and I, who are text besties, and we've talked about a lot of things.

And when I said, oh, I'm writing this book, that opened up a conversation or a lane of conversation we hadn't had before.

And I loved that she was so.

open and interested and said like oh i love talking to people about faith it doesn't mean i agree with your faith it means isn't it interesting to have these conversations isn't this more valuable to spend time talking about what you believe what you don't believe Let's connect as humans.

This is the stuff that actually matters.

And I'm hoping that the book at least creates that opportunity.

That's exactly right.

You know, my favorite course I ever took was something called Problem of God at Georgetown.

And it was run by, it was taught by a Jesuit priest, and it goes, we're here to discuss, is it God's problem with man or man's problem with God?

And it was all about existentialism.

It was mind-blowing.

It was a mind-blowing class for me in a lot of ways.

Anyway, this book is really interesting.

I've really enjoyed reading it.

And I think it's good.

Scott does talk about community a lot, and it's important to touch it.

This is what it's about, faith and community, which doesn't necessarily have to have any religion at all.

The book is mostly what God does, reflections on seeking and finding his love everywhere by Savannah Guthrie and her AI

friends.

Anyway, thank you so much.

Thank you.

I so enjoyed it.

Thanks, Scott.

Thanks, Kara.

Nice to meet you, Savannah.

All right, Scott, bringing a little dot in here.

We should have a lot.

We vary ourselves.

It's a great discussion.

It really is, to talk about that in an intelligent way, which usually does not get intelligent, unfortunately.

One more quick break.

We'll be back for Wins and Fails.

Hello, Daisy, speaking.

Hello, Daisy.

This is Phoebe Judge from the IRS.

Oh, bless.

That does sound serious.

I wouldn't want to end up in any sort of trouble.

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Okay, Scott, would you like to go first or would you like to?

I've been doing all the speaking.

You know, I think the biggest fail this week, if you think back on it, is a political one, which is that the Republicans badly misplayed their hand and

they look stupid in terms of.

And again, this is a long,

like I say with the Democrats, this is a long election, but they made, you know, they kept making, they indulged themselves by saying weekended Bernie's Biden, and he's not.

He's just simply not.

It's not true.

It wasn't true in the first place.

He's old and they've given him an in, a very good inn, here.

And I think what the Democrats should do, as I said on stage at South by Southwest, I said on the Chris Wallace show, is start to define Trump in ways that are actually true.

And my thing was, you know, repeat rapist,

racist, fascist, like that kind of thing.

And use those techniques.

I think that they did themselves a disservice.

I don't really want them to win, but they did themselves a disservice.

And for the win,

I think, you know, I love that Barbie got really shafted in the Oscars.

They really did.

But everyone's focused on the I'm Just Can, which I thought was great, Ryan Gosling.

But Billie Eilish is such a talent, such an enormous, deeply moving talent.

She won an Oscar for

song that she sang.

And I love her.

And I think she's, she gets, she's, of course, very famous, obviously,

but she deserves every bit of it.

And she was carrying it around.

And it was just, I just love her.

I love it.

It's called What Was I Made For?

from one of the most beautiful songs in Barbie and just so moving.

And she's just, everything she does is fantastic.

So that's my win and fail.

Nice.

Yeah, Barbie should have won everything.

Okay, I can't resist.

What award should Barbie have won instead of?

Oh, her.

Margot Robbie could have.

I know Emma Stone won it.

There were a lot of good people.

The woman from a flower moon there's you know she should have at least been nominated i guess because i thought she did a she's a fantastic actress margo robbie she's great and and she was quite good

tanya i thought that was her best film yeah she was fantastic but i'm just saying because she was wearing pink you didn't see how good the performance was and it really was that's an interesting frame on

yeah anyway

okay so

My win, and we keep talking about this, I think the TikTok ban, yeah, I think they chose the wrong word.

I think it should be called TikTok regulation.

It looks like it's going to pass the House.

We'll see if it passes the Senate.

Biden has said he'll sign it.

But this is how it's going to play out.

On the eve of the ban or the day after the ban, the folks at Byte Dance are going to say, well, the jig is up.

It's no longer a propaganda tool that we'd hoped it would be for decades.

We don't want to lose a quarter of a trillion dollars.

So they will spin it or come to some sort of accommodation or agreement.

Money wins, and money will win here.

And they will figure out something.

And no one's going to lose their TikTok is

my win here.

And also, for the shareholders of TikTok, including ByteDance, who sell it, the value once this cloud of uncertainty is removed, I believe the stock's going to go up, but the value of the company is going to up 50 to 100%.

So increased market capital.

Can I counter that for a minute with intelligence by Mark Cuban, not myself?

But we had a long talk about this.

He said it's actually not valuable without the algorithm.

And the Chinese will not let us have the algorithm because it will show that they may or may not have done what we think think they may or may not have done, which is all kinds of manipulation.

And so, he said the best thing would have been to do is to get your historical

history on the service and reverse engineer the algorithm.

I barely,

I realize, I understand what he's saying, but it's very complicated.

And then you find out whether the Chinese did cheat or put their finger on the, you know, or else they didn't, right?

And, but they can't, they, if they did, they can't let you know.

And if they didn't,

well, they're not going, they probably did, right?

And so he said it's not as valuable.

You get the user base, but you're not getting the algorithm, and it could be a real problem for the company.

And that was why I said, are you making a bid for it?

It seems that you've always been interested in these social medias and sites.

And he said, no, because of that.

He thought that.

Anyway, it was just an interesting analysis.

But go ahead.

I think that with a quarter of a trillion reasons to try and figure out an AI algorithm, I think this thing has so much momentum that I do think.

I don't think that point.

I don't think new owners, TikTok is going to go away.

I mean, Reels isn't as good as TikTok,

but I just got to think with this kind of opportunity and the kind of developments and investment and capital and technology we have around AI, the new owners are going to do a decent job.

It might not be as good.

I get it.

I just was interested by this, and I had not heard it from others.

He's so smart.

I always listen to what he says.

Go ahead.

Anyways, my fail is anti-Semitism on campuses.

The signs, Zionists not not allowed, Zionists not welcome.

Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism.

These signs were at UC Santa Barbara.

The University of California changed my life.

It was very upsetting for me to see this.

And I think that signs, I think anti-Zionism signage from people who aren't having a thoughtful conversation around the history and actual data here, I think it's thinly veiled anti-Semitism.

I think that Israel is held to a double standard that's not applied to any other nation.

The right to existence of no other sovereign state is called into question.

And I think anti-Zionism becomes anti-Semitism when the Jewish people as a whole are held accountable for the actions of policies

of the Israeli government, typically resulting in discrimination, harassment.

Well, let me finish, thank you.

Or violence against individual Jews.

And we are seeing more and more of that.

It is not going away on campuses.

Protesting in Jewish temples, at Holocaust museums, saying Zionists not allowed on campus.

I mean, I just see that as anti-Semitism.

And Prime Minister Rushi Sinek said, I thought very eloquently in the UK, he said, look, you want to protest peacefully, you want to have signs saying, you know, that you're pro-Palestine, pro-Gaza, you're anti-Israel, fine.

But you start yelling hate speech and become violent, we're going to move against you and we're going to hold you accountable.

So I'm just very disappointed that the University of California leadership hasn't taken more of a leadership stand and distinguished between free speech and hate speech.

And I thought this was kind of slowly but moving from a boil to a simmer.

It's not.

It appears to have picked up again in the last couple of weeks.

Anyways, that's my fail.

You know, we had an interruption during our Gavin Newsom thing in California over protesters, and they appeared there.

They kept saying, call for a ceasefire.

But anyway,

what was, I get it.

I get it.

I just think some of the things that are continuing to happen and how

Netanyahu,

you know, Biden's even saying, I have a red line of what you're doing there.

And he, and Netanyahu is ignoring him completely.

Biden's handled it well.

And by the way, the protests that you're book signing, I think, are entirely

acceptable and appropriate.

Except

they weren't listening to him.

They didn't want dialogue in that case, but I get it.

I get it.

And it's fair game.

He's fair game to have Gavin Newson, all these wells.

I just feel like

it's getting worse because

at this point, they've got to have a ceasefire.

They really do.

They have to have a ceasefire.

Can I take the other side of that?

Please do.

Okay.

A religious fundamentalist violent group takes control of the Mexican government.

It's elected democratically there.

And they believe that white evangelical Texans

are treating immigrants poorly, have been inhuman to people trying to get across the border for a different life, and decides to couch it in religion and say that they should be exterminated.

They don't have a right to existence.

They, hold on.

They build tunnels and they incur into Texas.

They kill everyone at the University of Texas, all the faculty, all the family members.

And on the way back to Mexico, they take the freshman class of SMU hostage and put them under tunnels in Mexico City.

And so my question is the following.

What would we do to them?

It would be the great Sonora charred parking lot.

There would be no calls for a ceasefire.

And here's what happens.

We should absolutely coordinate with the Israeli government to allow humanitarian aid.

And the fact fact that Netanyahu is doing anything to get in the way of that is diabolical and wrong.

At the same time, if it was us,

we wouldn't be calling to save the hospital and ply to Carmen.

We would not listen to calls for a ceasefire.

Because in my view, until Hamas is eliminated, even Qatar is sick of Hamas senior-level officials.

If they do not release the hostages, I don't think there should be calls for a ceasefire.

There is a ceasefire.

There was a ceasefire on October 6th.

There will be one once they put down their weapons and surrender.

Israel should be given

the same expectation, the same rights we as Americans demanded when someone attacked us at Pearl Harbor on 9-11, and that is unconditional surrender.

And any ceasefire other than for humanitarian aid just leads to them rearming, rebuilding, and eventually more death.

All right.

As you can see, I wonder why it's ginned up again, but I do feel like Ed Niahoo is exactly the wrong leader at this moment.

And he's not making it more secure.

And most Israelis and most Jews, Kara, agree with you.

Yeah, I agree.

I agree.

Yeah, I know.

I know.

I know.

And I apologize.

I don't mean to be hostile towards you.

I think you're evoking a debut.

I think no one, I get what you're saying, but it's not.

It's devastation all over the place.

And it doesn't matter.

What Biden said, the way we reacted at 9-11, you get what we did.

Probably we did too much.

Anyway,

we want to hear from you.

Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind.

Go to nymag.com slash pivot, submit a question for the show or call 855-51 Pivot.

Okay, Scott, that's the show.

We'll be back on Friday for more.

Today's show is produced by Larry Amon, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin.

Ernie Nurtad engineered this episode.

Thanks also to Drew Burroughs and Miles Severio.

Nishak Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio.

Make sure you're subscribed to the show wherever you listen to podcasts.

Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine, Vox Media.

You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/slash pod.

We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

Love the poor, that's a decent place to start.