Disney’s Billion Dollar Punch, AppGPT, and Guest Chasten Buttigieg

Support for the show comes from Saks Fifth Avenue.

Sacks Fifth Avenue makes it easy to shop for your personal style.

Follow us here, and you can invest in some new arrivals that you'll want to wear again and again, like a relaxed product blazer and Gucci loafers, which can take you from work to the weekend.

Shopping from Saks feels totally customized, from the in-store stylist to a visit to Saks.com, where they can show you things that fit your style and taste.

They'll even let you know when arrivals from your favorite designers are in, or when that Brunello Cacchinelli sweater you've been eyeing is back in stock.

So, if you're like me and you need shopping to be personalized and easy, head to Saks Fifth Avenue for the Best Fall Arrivals and Style inspiration.

Thumbtack presents Project Paralysis.

I was cornered.

Sweat gathered above my furrowed brow and my mind was racing.

I wondered who would be left standing when the droplets fell.

Me or the clogged sink.

Drain cleaner and pipe snake clenched in my weary fist, I stepped toward the sink and then...

Wait, why am I stressing?

I have thumbtack.

I can easily search for a top-rated plumber in the Bay Area, read reviews, and compare prices, all on the app.

Thumbtack knows homes.

Download the app today.

Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

And I'm Scott Galloway.

Hey, Scott, I just want to tell you, thank you for defending me when Elon Musk said I sound like a dog whistle.

I just want to say thank you.

You were very manly of you to do that.

Well, can we talk?

So just so everyone knows.

I don't think we've talked about that yet.

Yeah, Kara and I have not talked about it, nor are we coordinating our comments here.

But essentially, Elon Musk

said that you had become so shrill that only

dogs could hear you now.

Yeah.

And so let's just break that down.

And by the way, I'd like to say, and I'm not a big fan of saying, you know, he got ratioed, but he did get ratioed.

And a lot of people felt that that was out of line and came to your defense.

But the term shrill, first off, let's give them the benefit of the doubt and let's say that it's not a sexist term.

I mean, shrill is

but it is, but okay,

it is, but it basically refers to a loud noise that is so shocking and uncomfortable that you just want to get away from it, right?

And it is, it is usually associated or used to describe someone, quite frankly, being a bitch, right?

It's yeah, he might have gone to bitch right away.

It is a misogynistic term, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt and just say that it's a it's a saying or a noise or something that is inappropriate and makes everyone uncomfortable and is unnecessary and adds no value.

So let's talk about Shrill.

He hates humanity.

That's what he said about George Soros.

Hey, Pedo guy calls an innocent man a pedophile, right?

There's more to this story

than

may have been published, talking about assuming that there was some sort of gay love affair

lover or

talking about

saying that we shouldn't assume that this person is a white supremacist defending a white supremacist.

Elon Musk is literally the most shrill person in the world right now.

He is indeed.

And so

I find it just incredibly toner.

Everything he does.

Everything he does is about himself.

Every insult he makes is about himself.

It's really, it was weird.

It was weird.

And I think where did it come from?

Oh, because we did a whole on-show with Ryan Mack and Zoe Schiffer, two excellent reporters, new york times and platformer on things that were going on and that's we were just noting like and some dumbass who uh

i think who tweeted something like well they didn't realize arab spring didn't work and literally we had a long discussion about it that it didn't work and how social media companies took credit.

And then Elon was responding to that.

This guy who hadn't obviously listened to the podcast because we said exactly what he said we didn't say.

And that was where it came.

He always does things in sub-tweets.

He always sub-tweets things.

Just someone says something terrible,

either racist or misogynist.

And he always goes, absolutely, or facts or something like that.

So he sub-tweets things most of the time.

So that's where Kate was weird.

And, you know, it's part of his little gang of, I call them professional adult toddlers, but

take this.

And I promise this does relate to this.

I was at the Wesson Hotel in Seattle.

And they wouldn't let us up.

And they said, there's a fire alarm has gone off.

Sprinkles have gone off on like the 18th floor.

I'm like, oh shit.

I'm, you know,

these, these eight

fire people show up.

I mean, these people are total badasses.

First of all, they're all in just amazing shape.

All physical specimens, seven guys, one woman.

They walk in and they immediately dive into the elevator and go up to the floor.

They don't even like,

that's their job.

They're like, we're here to protect people.

And

I've been thinking a lot about masculinity.

I think one, it's self-reliance, being sure that you're strong, mentally fit, emotionally fit, such that you can, most importantly, take care of other people.

There's nothing less manly than using your 125 million followers and sycophantic following to bully and harm people.

That is the exact opposite of masculinity.

It's literally like, if you wanted to raise

boys who did not turn into men, you know, follow that Twitter feed.

That is not what we do.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, it's fine.

I think I had a good answer in the thread finally.

I said, you know, Scott, you know how he did the whole thing that AOC was flirting with him?

So I said, Elon, stop flirting with me.

I'm a lesbian and I have enough children.

And I felt that took care of it.

I feel like that took care of it.

So I'm still a lesbian and have too many children.

I haven't focused.

It's just ridiculous.

It actually leads us into today's discussion because

we have, among other things, our friend of Pivot is Chastin Buttigieg about about coming of age as a gay teen in the Midwest and continuing challenges to LGBTQ life in America, including online, especially online.

But we've got a lot of other things to talk about today.

Disney isn't pulling any punches against Ron DeSantis.

And it has also some troubles going on around

its linear TV business.

We'll talk about the company's latest million-dollar blow.

Also, Apple's getting ready to launch its headset, but its AI efforts are nowhere to be seen, or maybe we don't see them.

And we'll see where it goes.

But first, the debt ceiling cliff is getting closer.

Republicans don't seem to be backing down.

President Biden and House Speaker Kevin McCarthy plan to meet on Monday afternoon as we record this.

Well, on Sunday, Biden called the House Republicans moved from their extreme positions, called them unacceptable.

Biden is considering invoking the 14th Amendment, which he said he didn't want to do, which includes the phrase, validity of the public debt authorized by law shall not be questioned.

Legal scholars have argued the line could apply to the debt limit, making it unconstitutional for the U.S.

to fail to make its payments.

Republicans oppose the idea.

There's probably going to be a court battle.

I can't believe they're going this far.

What do you think about that?

I think we're so used to them playing chicken with each other and then not doing it that we and the markets don't take it very seriously.

Sure.

Yeah.

And it's as stupid and as partisan as these parties can be sometimes, there's also a healthy dose of cowardice.

And I don't think they want to, I don't think any, I think they're going to go right up to the line.

And then they're going to go, okay, do we really want to see what happens here?

But then what?

How are they going to back down?

They're They're sort of putting themselves.

I mean, especially the Republicans are really,

he's putting himself out there.

Yeah, but I think he gave up so much and he's so not owned, but the crazies have really made themselves heard.

And so

he has to, at a minimum, you know, show up.

He has to pretend that he's regardless.

I wouldn't be surprised, Kara, if he and

the president have sort of winked at each other and said, we'll get this done.

But But

I need to be a certain amount of crazy for a while here.

This would be terrible for all of them.

I mean,

no one would come out of this as a principled person when all of a sudden, you know, everyone from.

So you're still betting on a situation settling.

Which usually happens.

I just don't think we're that stupid.

I mean, this would be a murder-suicide.

Maybe.

Are they not that stupid?

Maybe.

I don't think Biden is, but I don't think he's going to give.

I think he doesn't have a lot of, I think he'll do the 14th and then see where it lands.

But you can't play cute with the financial markets, especially in this with the bank situation and coming out of COVID.

It seems ridiculous.

And of course, they never did it.

Trump is hoping for it.

Trump is.

Oh, yeah.

Well, Trump is an enemy of the state.

And everyone who has a vested interest in the decline of America is hoping this happens.

It takes our eye off the ball.

It creates real risks.

I mean, you know, people are vendors, our military suppliers are.

Yeah.

I think the first is military.

Second one is Social Security.

The next day, June 1st, is military.

I'd be more scared of our seniors.

Citizens.

I know.

Well, that's the second day.

So it starts to get moves very fast.

Anyway, we'll see.

Speaking of paying up, Meta is setting new records, not in the way it wants.

European privacy regulators fined the company $1.3 billion for transferring EU user data to the U.S.

That's the highest amount any company has been fined for breaching GDPR, the EU's general data protection regulation.

The EU body that oversees Meta's operations in the EU told it to stop transferring personal data to the U.S.

within five months.

I think Meta says it's working on it, I guess.

Meta plans to appeal the decision, obviously.

You know, it's interesting.

We're focused on the Chinese and Russians, but

Europe is looking at the whole picture, and they also don't want it here in this country.

They made their rules, and they should stick to them.

Yeah, but again, the Odsburg deterrence doesn't work here.

$1.3 billion is what the Zuck will lose this month on

the metaverse.

And

you know how there's the legislation, there's a law that if you're caught selling drugs within a couple hundred yards of a school, they add on another 10 years to your conviction or some such.

Yeah.

I think a very effective legislation would be that any fine that comes down from

a legitimate regulatory body has a zero added to it.

Because the problem is the economists and the folks at Meta have said it's worth it to break the law because they'll appeal this, they'll hold it up, and the ability to abuse data, let data run freely so they can monetize it to a greater extent, it's worth far more than $1.3 billion every once in a while.

Yeah, that's true.

I agree.

I call them parking tickets.

That's what it is.

We just interviewed Senator Bennett and Senator Warner about where they go with this Restrict Act and if it applies to everybody, and if there's real

stomach after this debt ceiling thing to do any kind of tech legislation, you know, they were saying it's a productive Senate.

Maybe they can get something passed that doesn't rely on Europe to

give parking tickets to our companies, that we can do some real stuff, although they're going to go into a buzzsaw of Facebook and other lobbying.

But we'll see.

Maybe the AI stuff has some energy to it for our legislators, and maybe they'll consider.

privacy legislation.

Probably not.

Speaking of privacy, something that became unprivate, Jeffrey Epstein reportedly attempted to blackmail Bill Gates over an affair as the two tried to launch a charitable venture.

I think mostly Jeffrey Epstein was doing it, was attempting.

He met with Gates several times beginning in 2011 in an attempt to bring Gates in on as a primary investor in a deal with JPMorgan.

This is all out of whole cloth that Epstein did this.

I don't think Gates was ever engaged in any way.

He also knew about an affair between Gates and a Russian woman he met playing bridge.

Epstein paid for the woman to attend programming boot camp.

And after the JP Morgan thing didn't work out,

as many things that Epstein did didn't work out.

He emailed Gates, asked me to pay back for the cost of the programming camp, which seems like I could pay for the cost of the programming camp.

And said the phrasing of the letter was blackmail, available attempted blackmail.

Gates never paid.

This is just sad.

I don't know what else to say.

It's a big story in the Wall Street Journal, but it's super sad.

Well, I mean, you got to give it to Gates.

It's not easy to get laid at a bridge tournament.

I mean,

that's pretty impressive.

And it's great cover.

You know, Melinda goes, where are you going, Bill?

Bridge tournament.

Oh, no problem.

Bridge.

Oh,

good.

Yeah, that'll work.

That'll work for me.

Yeah.

But

the first thing I thought of,

I just can't help it.

I tell you, whenever I get, I love Q ⁇ A.

By the way, you didn't ask me about my Summit at Sea experience this weekend.

Oh, I forgot.

I'll just

put that in there.

I always like in Q ⁇ A, which is my favorite part, to throw everyone off their game.

And I'll say,

in a totally unrelated question, someone will say, what's the future of AI?

And I'll say, you know, Jeffrey Epstein did not kill himself.

And I'll go on to the next question.

Oh, I know you say that.

I had three emails from people today, text today from people saying that.

You know what my second go-to is that freaks everybody out?

What?

Relax the throat and maintain eye contact.

That's good.

Cause there's a delayed pause.

I wonder if anything happened at Summit at Sea that we'll be blackmailed for.

I saw so many famous people using eyedroppers, and it wasn't because their eyes were hurting.

We'll get to your blackmail situation in a minute, Epstein and Gates.

I can't help it.

Don't you wonder if this guy really committed suicide?

When you start, if you're

threatening.

I don't think Bill Gates killed him.

I'm not suggesting Bill Gates killed him.

I'm suggesting if you have an individual who is willing to try and blackmail the wealthiest people in the world.

Is there a good chance you're going to end up dead?

It does feel like a plot of scandal or like law and order, doesn't it?

The other question I had was, who went on background to leak this?

Well, Gates, the Gates people commented on it, too.

Like they kind of, I think it was out there.

There were all these, you know, he's, he's pulled into it because he flew on his plane at one point, which is like, why is he flying on?

Why is the richest man flying on someone's plane?

And he was down on that island.

And I think it's, it's probably a little, and he had dinner with him quite a bit.

He looks like he was hanging out with him for like a brick.

But I don't, I think that doesn't implicate him.

I think I think this is exactly what it was is he had an affair with someone and

this guy took advantage of it.

He probably has videos of lots of people doing much worse things, is what I'm assuming.

I thought, I mean, I'm just fascinated.

I mean, first off, look, it's gossip, it's titillating because it's Bill Gates, but I don't think it's relevant.

The thing that struck me about it was how well the Gates Foundation handled the communication.

They were very straightforward.

Well, it was Gates' people.

Yeah, I don't know if it's the Gates Foundation.

Well, I'm sorry, I'm not Gates.

The Gates people.

They just said

this was based on a previously disclosed relationship that predates

we did not engage in this.

They were honest and they were just, this is what it is.

We're not going to, we're not.

I thought they were very good at it.

He got roped in by this guy named I've, who I've spoken to once or twice, Boris Nikolik, who was his science advisor.

It sounds like he was, and he roped him in.

And somehow, you know, I think what happens is all these rich people get in these like TEDs and accept all the stuff they do, all the big level conferences, the private conferences.

And they're all like, How should we do this?

How should we do that?

And then they don't differentiate in who's a loser and who's a con artist.

And there's all kinds of that going on.

That, how can we give better?

How can we?

And, you know, I just,

I don't feel sorry for Gates, but I mean, he definitely sort of lives this isolated life

and probably doesn't know who's, you never know who's a scammer near you if you're that rich, I think.

And it's sad.

And, you know, a lot of times I would leave these people like with their hangers on or there's always hangers on her.

Elon has a pack.

Gates has a pack.

They all have a pack.

And I thought, I can leave here quietly by myself.

And these people are constantly moving on planes.

And they're little, you know, it's a lot like succession.

They're like trapped in this weird world.

And there's always an Epstein there to fuck with you.

And the ones that do the bad things, the really bad things, I think probably

he crossed someone for sure.

This guy crossed someone.

I'm not sure who it is.

But I'd recommend the Wall Street Journal series on this and all the different people this guy dragged into his universe.

You know, very prominent people, Noam Chomsky, a bunch of people, a bunch of big name educational people looking for money.

So here we are.

This is the life of the rich and famous.

It's sad, really.

Yeah, it's just, it's weird and it's titillating.

I mean, you know, Prince Andrew and

I don't, I don't understand

the whole thing is this sort of you read about all of it and you want to shower you do speaking of showering how did you do a summit at sea very briefly we got to get to our big uh i thought i really enjoyed it they've curated a good group of people it's a lot of young people about half of them i were in social work for social media agencies and are now transitioning to be executive coaches so i hope we produce more executives that need coaching but or they're in vertical farming it's pretty it's pretty it's a lot of progressives but the vibe on the boat was really nice people are really friendly.

So, how many days?

It's basically three.

It was three nights, but it's a nice

meet some people.

Well, especially retail is curating a voice around products.

This is curating a voice-around people.

And they're all these very intentional, thoughtful, generous, nice people.

People would come up to you and genuinely like a lot of hugging.

At first, it's

the end of that for me.

You know what?

It's usually up-putting for me, but after a while, it's kind of nice.

Anyway, no, there's no hugging, but can't be.

Really nice mix of people, mix of age groups and demographics, and an appreciation for content.

I was actually, I was surprised at the upside.

They did a lot of good stuff.

Good.

You enjoyed it.

One of my videos in my, I talk about scarcity in my presentation.

I found this amazing video.

This guy put out a box of snacks and a bunch of monkeys.

One goes over and grabs it, and then they all dive in, like, as you would imagine.

Monkeys would do with nachos.

And it's this really compelling TikTok I found.

And I got offered mushroom chocolates on the first night three times.

And on the third time, I said yes, and I went back to my room and I watched that video 80 times, and it was amazing.

It was amazing.

Someone gave me mushroom chocolates.

They're sitting in a drawer.

I don't know what to do.

You should take them or you should bring them to my house the next time you stay there and just leave them.

If I feel like I have children, something bad would happen.

That's I worry about that too with the edible silicone candy.

Yeah.

Well, I'm glad you had a pie.

We need to go on a cruise.

You and I, I'm telling you, we would think bank and we'd have a good time.

I mean, and it wouldn't fall over.

Probably not.

Probably not.

Anyway, let's go to our first big story

for Ron DeSantis.

It's a small economy after all.

Ha ha, that's not my joke.

That's Evan.

Last week, Disney announced that it was canceling plans to build a billion-dollar office complex in Orlando.

Disney's plan would have moved 2,000 jobs from California to Florida.

The company cited new leadership in changing business conditions for the decision.

It's more like, fuck you, Ron.

100%.

But another explanation.

Let's go to a clip of Professor Scott Galloway, who made this prediction a month ago.

And what Bob Iger is going to do, or I would bet Disney is going to do, is they will leak to the press that we're planning this new amusement park.

And they'll leak that, oh, we were contemplating launching it as an adjunct or in Florida, and we're now considering different locations.

And the media will go crazy with this, that Florida, that's governor who is fighting a cultural war to try and get attention from the far right, is now hurting our economy and our prospects for growth.

Yep, he did it.

That's what happened.

You know, there's also business conditions that have changed.

First of all, they've got some financial issues at Disney, including in linear television, which we'll talk about in a minute.

So it saves them money.

A lot of the Disney's California employees, the Imagineering Unit, didn't want to move to Florida for lots of good reasons.

And also, Ron DeSantis is supposed to announce his presidential campaign this week, so a kick in the teeth.

I will talk about the cuts in a minute, but what do you think about this?

Disney's being quite aggressive, and it's good for them financially to do so.

The two best things that have happened for Bob Iger are one, Ron DeSantis.

I personally think it's highly unlikely.

I think they were going to cancel this anyways.

They need to cut costs.

New projects are just probably everything is on the back burner right now.

And the second best thing is the Writers Guild of America, whose 11,000 people, the small union, has managed to figure out a way to create a unilateral pause on spending across an industry that was spending too much.

And I just find it hilarious that Governor DeSantis didn't do the game theory here.

And then the Writers Guild has basically said to the studio heads, I'm going to drop off a dump truck of money every day

until you end this strike.

Let's negotiate.

And so it's like, okay, I'm sorry, what is my.

By the way, writers want us to have a writer on to yell at you, but we'll do that.

We'll have that happen.

Of the 11,000, I wrote a post on this.

Of the 11,000 members of the Writers Guild, I think 10,800 weighed in on Twitter, and they were not very nice.

I got it.

None of them were very nice.

I even, my person who's helped me work on my book was like, Scott's an idiot.

I thought they would have come back with better tweets than Scott's an idiot.

I think they went right to idiot.

Yeah, right to idiot.

Like, just like, just like Shrill, I should have gone right to the idea.

I'm like, I'm like, yeah.

I'm like, any evidence or argument or just that I'm a horrible person.

We will have a writer on to argue with Scott.

Go

bring it.

I think we need to.

I think we need to.

Anyway, go ahead.

So this is good for Disney from a financial point of view, and it also kicks Ron DeSantis

and the tiny little balls he has.

This is a twofer.

Allegedly.

And they did this perfectly.

They went on background, pretended it had nothing to do with politics.

It's unfriendly there.

I would bet there was somewhere between a 60 and 90% chance they were going to cancel this thing anyways.

And instead, they have given DeSantis' Republican opponents and the media an incredible talking point that this guy doesn't understand business.

100%.

And, you know, let's talk about their business challenges, too.

It comes at a time.

It sort of covers these up a little bit.

This is from Bill Cohen.

The question that's becoming harder to answer, especially after Disney announced last week it lost some 4 million streaming subscribers in its latest quarter, but nonetheless managed to cut its streaming losses to around 660 million from more than 1 billion, exceeding analyst expectations.

The stock still got pounded, uh as warren buffett said last weekend regarding berkshire's large and losing investment in paramount global the trouble is there is quote a bunch of companies who don't want to quit highly expensive extremely expensive and low margin streaming businesses ultimately the profitability requires fewer competitors and higher prices so he's uh

Iger's in a squeeze here.

They pulled over 50 shows from Hulu and Disney Plus.

Titles include Turner and Hooch, the 2021 show, not the movie, The Mighty Ducks TV show, Willow, just finished airing in January.

The move will cost them, of course, in the short term, but cost them a bit of money.

They're also closing their Star Wars Hotel, which was very expensive, was $6,000 for a two-night stay for a family of four.

Big immersive experiences.

That didn't work.

So it's facing all kinds of, all of them are facing these, you know, cutting titles, et cetera, et cetera, and getting this stock price up.

Iger's

under real pressure here.

It was going to make, it's going to make ESPN available as a streaming channel.

He called the Iger called the move inevitable.

They got, speaking of kicked in the teeth at least,

are their linear stuff.

It's been subsidized by profits from Linear TV, all this spending on streaming, and operating income from Linear TV fell 35% because of advertising.

They were very adamant that it would come back and they were best positioned.

I would tend to agree with them on that.

So it's really tough.

He's in a tough business situation as these transitions are happening.

They're all incredibly challenged.

It's a perfect storm.

You know, you've seen, I mean, first off,

if you want to be angry, be angry at TikTok.

We have this tsunami of human capital that's come in and brought down the margins across every industry.

You have anyone under the age of 30 is not watching ad-supported television.

You had Netflix figure out a way similar to Amazon to convince the marketplace to value growth over profits.

So

they became kind of capital as a weapon and everybody had no choice but to follow them.

So, you know,

the net result here

is that margins at Comcast has gone from 27% to 4% in the past five years.

Disney's have gone from 16% to 4%.

It's like a Walmart.

It's crazy.

Paramount has lost $511 million.

Discovery last year, now, granted, they just shoved everything in the kitchen sinking of this, posted $7 billion in losses.

So So it's the perfect storm of bad things.

And to a certain extent, what Disney has, though, is they have the parks

and the parks.

Which has helped exceed it.

Parks exceeded it.

Was linear television because of the ad sales.

And then their move to ESPN as a streaming network.

The way that these companies have made money was two things.

It was advertising, but more than that, it was affiliate fees.

And because when Time Warner Cable was charging me $120 or the food networks four, five, and six, they would charge charge me $6 for ESPN.

And so they made just a shit ton of money on these affiliate fees.

And now that people are cutting the cord, they have decided, okay, we need to move to streaming.

But they're getting hit from all sides here.

Yeah, they're down at their five-year low.

It's crazy.

You know, it's, it's hard.

You know, they're not at their low low, but they had a peak in mid-2021 or something.

And now they're, you know, they're moving down to lows.

And that's what's going to,

you're right, Disney is best positioned, but there's definitely in a world of hurt right now, which can't help Iger very much.

And so this DeSantis hand waving is fantastic for him on every level.

Oh, yeah, it kills the project.

He gets to be a good guy and kill it.

Again, two for, but what people aren't talking about, they want to make a cartoon of the CEOs paying them a bunch of money.

And that is a fair argument.

When David Saslov pays himself a quarter of a billion dollars and he's arguing with writers who aren't making that much money,

have at it.

But here's the thing: income inequality and CEO compensation across every industry is out of control.

That is not unique to this industry.

TikTok is a new player that's sucking $10 billion out of the ecosystem.

It is.

I don't think they've figured that out.

And they have to keep spending on streaming.

They really do.

And

I survey my team all the time.

The median age, not the mean, the median age on my team is 24.

None of them have cable TV.

No.

Yeah, Louie watches.

Louis sat down, came back last night, and he immediately was looking at YouTube and streaming.

He just, that's all he's doing.

He wasn't looking, he doesn't like TikTok, but YouTube for sure and Reddit.

125 million people every day log into YouTube, watch YouTube.

I mean, on a good day, a network

gets 3 million people.

Mr.

Beast on YouTube has three times as many subscribers as Hulu.

And granted, apples to oranges, one is paying, one is not.

But these folks are under the impression that it's johnny carson and angie dickinson and tang at

i mean the world it's like you can yell you can scream at progress but it's going to ignore you exactly and i think streaming i mean they're all on they my kids do use streaming they just are on my service so it'll be interesting to see a hundred million people use someone else's netflix password yeah yeah well they're my i have a family

but in any case

like we have you have lucky's netflix password i know what's going on.

No, I don't.

Lucky tries to use mine.

I kicked her off.

I kicked off all my friends' kids somehow get onto it and I kicked them off.

I kicked, I would kick a lot of people off.

In any case, Amanda was like, Why am I not able to use it?

Because someone else is using it.

And then we just kick them off.

I just kick them off.

Anyway, we'll see where it goes.

But Bob Iger is definitely in a jam economically right now.

It probably will rebound advertising in their best position for that.

But DeSantis is providing a great heat shield for him in terms of a lot of things.

And good for him for using him for that because he deserves it.

Um, and we'll see how his presidential election goes.

A lot, certainly, a lot of people are attacking him in particular, but a lot of Republicans are attacking Trump lately, which is interesting.

Anyway, we're going to have a quick break.

When we come back, Apple is going all in on a risky bet, and we'll speak with a friend of Pivot, Chastin Budijej, about gay life in middle America.

If you're waiting for your AI to turn into ROI

and wondering how long you have to wait,

maybe you need to do more than wait.

Any business can use AI.

IBM helps you use AI to change how you do business.

Let's create Smarter Business, IBM.

Support for Pivot comes from LinkedIn.

From talking about sports, discussing the latest movies, everyone is looking for a real connection to the people around them.

But it's not just person to person, it's the same connection that's needed in business.

And it can be the hardest part about B2B marketing, finding the right people, making the right connections.

But instead of spending hours and hours scavenging social media feeds, you can just tap LinkedIn ads to reach the right professionals.

According to LinkedIn, they have grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, making it stand apart from other ad buys.

You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority skills, and company revenue, giving you all the professionals you need to reach in one place.

So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience and start targeting the right professionals only on LinkedIn ads.

LinkedIn will even give you $100 credit on your next campaign so you can try it for yourself.

Just go to linkedin.com/slash pivot pod.

That's linkedin.com/slash pivot pod.

Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads.

Scott, we're back.

iPhone users can now ask Siri to open a better AI app.

ChatGPT launched its official iOS app last week.

It's already rocketed a number two spot in the Apple App Store.

That's left some users wondering where Apple's AI efforts themselves are.

The company has reportedly banned the use of ChatGPT internally.

It's hiring in the space.

It listed 28 jobs in generative AI this month.

For now, the company remains focused on upcoming launch of its mixed reality headset, where its mind has been thought to be called Reality Pro.

Bloomberg reports Apple spent over a billion dollars per year on the project a lot, very quietly compared to Mark Zuckerberg, but he spent more actually.

But some top executives remain skeptical of its promise.

One former Apple marketing exec said the headset could be, quote, one of the greatest tech flops of all time.

I would not take my advice from a marketing exec necessarily, but I tend to wait and see what Apple does because they tend to.

do pretty good products.

Tim Cook has talked, has sort of not been loud compared to other executives on AI.

He said they're being deliberative and thoughtful, and you certainly could see how much AI could be inside of all the Apple products you use um

you know this week the leaders of the g7 navies called for ai regulation we can't wait till we see what they do about that um what do you think about apple waiting i think they always wait um i think they always wait um and i don't think they'll immediately go on trends and have an ai app or anything else what do you think about this my colleague or former colleague at nyu peter golder is now at dartmouth and he's one of kind of the great minds or great scholars around strategy and the premise of his scholarship is the following, that it's always the second mouse that gets the cheese.

And

Apple is the perfect example of that.

Apple wasn't the first.

Apple was not the first computer maker in object-oriented computing.

They were not the first person in MP3 players.

They come in, they wait, they analyze stuff, they let other people kind of fail, they take notes, and then they come in with something much more consumer-oriented with better marketing.

And I wouldn't be surprised if they end up launching some sort of,

generative AI around design or using it to massively upgrade Siri and announce that Siri 2.0, similar to what Microsoft has done with Bard.

But they're thoughtful, they're deliberate, and they know that their brand covers a lot, covers, you know, recaptures a lot of ground really fast.

And rather than rush anything out.

And by the way, Kara, just to, and I'll, I'll, maybe I'll make the prediction again on Friday.

I don't think they're going to launch their headset.

Really?

I think the world has changed.

I I think they've got a turd on their hands.

I don't know.

I don't know.

There's going to be a headset.

So I think, you know, the watch is.

How do you know that?

Why is it work?

Because there's going to be.

There's going to be one.

For the military and porn, that's about it.

Maybe so.

I don't know.

I feel like there's going to be one.

I don't have any question about the direction.

I think it's when it's going to happen and how much it's going to cost.

Other than warmth and extending the perceived notion of your cheekbones, which communicates your kids are less likely to have infection, which makes you sexier.

What do people put on their face other than for entertainment?

When I first used a reality headset like this, like it was Sony, it was a decade ago.

And I watched a movie, right?

They were testing.

It was one of their experimental labs and stuff.

And I...

I have to say, I've never forgotten that experience.

It was a little nauseating, but I also, I was in the movie and I felt like someone was behind me.

And it was cool.

It was, I have not forgotten the experience.

And so for entertainment, for sure, obviously for porn,

you know, I'm going to Crete.

I'm not going to Crete, but I'm going to Crete, like that kind of stuff.

You could see it in some sort of entertainment context for 100% sure.

I had the exact same experience the first time I wrote a Segue.

Wow, isn't this amazing?

This is going to change.

I didn't have that.

This is going to change urban transportation.

It just,

you know, this isn't, headsets do not work.

I am sticking to it.

I just

to part.

I think it does

in a prone situation.

And again, I'll tell you another place I used it.

I was in Hong Kong and I was on a roller coaster.

And so they put headsets on everyone.

It was really interesting.

And did the, I like it.

Before or after you had a stroke in Hong Kong.

I did not have a stroke.

This is why I was there.

My son loves to go.

Alex loves, you know, amusement parks.

He loves them.

So I always go and I get on the roller coaster with him, even though I hate roller coasters.

And so, in this case, we had went to the regular roller coasters, which always sort of made me feel vaguely nauseous.

I'm fine with them, but I don't love them.

This time they put on a headset and I have to say, I was still on the roller coaster, but wearing a headset, and it made it look like I was splashing into the ocean and all these beautiful visual images.

And I have to say, the enjoyment experience of this roller coaster was fantastic using it.

I did want it at Universal with a headset, with a Spider-Man thing.

Really cool.

Really enjoyed it.

And so I just feel like there's all kinds of applications.

I don't know if people are walking around in headsets, but as an an entertainment just the headset that they have for the the headphones the apple headphones are superb superb and who thought that would happen i wear them every day the companies that that had any chance or any shot of still doing it and by the way we didn't mention this and i i totally overlooked this in my post the the other than tick tock the thing that has really probably hurt

ad supported media or the cable companies is video games.

And the video games, the video games guys are absolutely the ones to potentially figure out a headset, and they've given up on it, or that's my sense, anyways.

They've sort of given up on it.

I have a feeling.

All right, we're going to wait and see.

We're going to wait and see.

I think it has a lot of potential if it's done right.

And again, I point to the Apple headsets.

I think your prospects are.

I think the only reason you're slightly positive on it is

that thank God you're finally out of your procreation era.

I can sit back and just look ridiculously.

Oh, this is fantastic.

Just look ridiculous.

There were 43 children's parties this weekend.

I almost died on Saturday night.

I have to tell you.

My son, my 12-year-old's wearing cologne now.

He's wearing Dior Draco.

He's like,

he had his first kind of, you know, he was dance.

Anyway, I'm going to dance out.

Dance.

That's nice.

Yeah, Louis has a cologne.

He had one made for him.

He went to one of those perfumeries.

No, he's not enduring the character building rejection his father was at this age.

Oh, well, there you go.

Anyway, speaking of someone who has kids, who also has young kids, and

who's doing gay parenting like I am, let's bring in our friend of Pivot.

Chastin Budigej is a former school teacher who was catapulted into the public eye in 2019 when his husband, Pete Budigej, became the first openly gay man to run for president.

He's the author of I Have Something to Tell You for Young Adults, an adaptation of his earlier book about coming of age as a young man in northern Michigan, which I interviewed him about.

Welcome, Chastin.

How are you doing?

Hey, you doing well.

Thanks for having me.

So you first published your memoir in 2020.

The new book is billed as a complete rewrite for young adults, focusing more on your younger years.

Talk about the new version of your story.

And then, of course, we'll get into things have changed since 2020, gotten worse in many ways, and especially around young people.

So why don't you talk, why make this new version of your story?

Yeah, when I started two years ago, I was just thinking about writing the book that I wanted to hand my younger self, you know, the book I wish I i could have read in eighth grade uh the political landscape was not what it was you know not what it is today i did not think that this book would be coming out uh in a time when we're talking about book bans especially a backslide in lgbtq rights but what i really just wanted to do was write the book that i knew teachers and parents could use especially young people

and of course you're taking this book on tour.

Several states have been banning books, as you said.

What's the reception like?

Because this is a book that would presumably be banned.

Yeah, I mean, the conversations I've been having across the country so far have been great.

I sold out my hometown, which was very humbling.

675 people in northern Michigan wanted to have that conversation.

And I can tell that people want to be on the right side of history.

And people in the LGBTQ community and their allies are feeling a little helpless and wondering what they can do.

And, you know, even if this book is just one little tool that helps, that's great.

But the reception has been phenomenal.

Now I'm getting ready ready to head down to Texas, Florida, Missouri,

and Utah.

So we'll see.

But we've sold out Florida.

So that's exciting.

And I think that's because people, one, need that space, want to feel like they belong, and two, want to have that conversation.

And what are your thoughts on the bannings?

Because again, this is a book that presumably some mom for liberty or whatever, against liberty, would push against.

Oh, yeah, because it features the existence of a queer person.

Yes.

You know, I taught it.

Yeah, I taught eighth grade.

You know, I'm a dad.

I wrote a completely age-appropriate book.

So I think if it's banned, that's just politics.

You know, I,

as you can probably attest to, Scott and Kara, we all read books featuring mostly or only straight people growing up for 13 years.

Every movie I watched, every book I read featured straight people, and I was not indoctrinated into being straight.

I think a lot of the conversations around book banning and

parental rights in education is really just a guise to

erase LGBTQ people or at least scare teachers and parents and families into

not talking about their existence.

It's very far removed from what I think most people want elected officials to be focusing on, but it's really easy for the other side right now.

Hate is so easy.

This divisive topic is so easy.

They've even acknowledged that they threw everything at the wall.

They wanted to see what would stick.

And what stuck was attacking LGBTQ people, specifically young, vulnerable trans kids.

Yeah, that's the first spot.

So you're an educator.

There's so much controversy right now over

if and when the topic of sexual orientation is introduced under the auspices of health, but in a, in an educational setting.

You know, if, when, when is it appropriate?

To what extent

are parents involved, if at all?

What are your thoughts?

Because you're right at that kind of critical critical age, right?

13 when kids start exploring their sexuality, puberty.

What are your thoughts as an educator about how we thoughtfully talk about these issues in a school setting?

One of the things I think is getting twisted in this conversation is that educators aren't able to have conversations with students appropriately.

I mean, educators have always been revered as the educated person in the room, right?

And so we have twisted this conversation into thinking that, you know, teachers are indoctrinating your students.

You know, they're talking about really inappropriate things, but nobody had a problem with that.

You know, we were coming up in school when teachers are having those conversations.

So one, it kind of boggles my mind that we're coming back to the conversation about what teachers should and should not be talking about because it pertains to LGBTQ people, you know.

One of the things that I have always believed is that safety comes first.

So outside of having conversations about development, I think that one of the things people have been really scared about with the don't say gay bill and concerned about teachers and students is: will a student be outed to their parents?

And is it the responsibility of a school to out a kid to a family who

might not be as accepting or won't be as accepting?

Will it put that kid in danger?

I think across the board, you know, I leave that to

administrations and parents.

I think parents should be involved in their kids' education.

That's another thing.

You know,

people saying that this is about parental rights, it's about parental involvement.

As a teacher, I remember what it was like to only have one or two parents come to parent-teacher conferences.

So

that conversation on when is it appropriate and who should be involved, I think everyone should be involved at the table.

You know, if a parent is not ready for their kid to have a conversation, they should totally come to the administration or come to the teacher and have that conversation.

But I think having those conversations in good faith, is it just about

a conversation about the existence of LGBTQ people?

That to me is completely appropriate.

So when you're thinking about, you know, in this book, you write a lot about the pressure to blend in, remain closeted, go along with anti-gay messaging around you.

I understand that.

I remember that, you know, and it's very fearful.

And especially when your parents are not, my dad died, but I would say my mother was hostile to it for a very long time.

I can't believe today this is happening again with this kind of thing, because at the time it was so furtive and so damaging emotionally personally you know just in every single way do you think it's going back because what it was like was terrible was terrible but do you feel like that and what what do you wish you had known as a teen when you're thinking about what's happening now

well what i wish i would have known as a teen was that it was okay to be myself you know for a long time i thought i was the only person the only gay person in the world you know then i had role models in ellen degenerous and you know jack of willing grace you know that sean That's all I had.

So, yeah, Sean Hayes.

So I had very limited,

you know, visibility into what it was like in a wider queer world out there.

But I do, I see two different things.

When I'm out here on book tour, when I'm talking to people around the country,

I see so many good people committed to the work who want to get it right, who care deeply about either being a good ally or protecting the LGBTQ community.

And then I see in politics, I do feel like it is backsliding.

And I do believe it got better.

It was getting better.

When I grew up, I never thought I would be able to get married.

I never thought I'd be able to be a dad.

Those things are true for me now.

So technically, it did get better.

But I think because it was getting better, now people are committed to making it worse.

The ideas of equality, the ideas of acceptance terrify some people on the right.

And I also have to say, I don't think every person on the right believes it.

I think they're just going along with it because it works.

It's great for clicks.

It's true.

Great for cloud gate.

Great for cash.

It's just a great fundraising opportunity and it's easier to

attack people and be hateful rather than focus on getting something done on gun legislation.

Right.

And so I think it's

this sort of twisted movement in their party to just focus on attacking queer people because it's easy.

But I do believe in many places, it is getting worse.

And it will only get better if more and more people are committed to making it better.

What gave you comfort?

Was it friends?

Was it certain literary works?

Was it a confidential conversation with a teacher?

Like what,

if we were to say, distinctive to politics, how do we create an ecosystem or context of comfort, what would you suggest?

To be honest, Scott, I didn't have any of those things.

And so

one of the things I always celebrate every pride is the fact that I'm here.

Because when I was younger, I just really didn't think I would make it.

I didn't have any teachers I could open up to.

You know, when the bullying and the homophobia was really bad, I didn't think I could go to the administration because I thought they would hate me too.

We never had that conversation in my family.

I didn't really have any role models.

I got a scholarship my senior year of high school to study abroad in Germany.

It was not because I cared so much about the German language or the culture.

I just wanted to get the hell out of Northern Michigan.

And it was my ticket out.

And then I made friends.

You know, it was the first time I had a friend who told me it was okay to be gay.

And that gave me the confidence to go home and bust down the closet door.

The thing I want people to know, especially parents, is that I could have benefited from a 10-second conversation with them when I was younger if they sat me down and said, it's okay to be yourself,

whether you're gay, straight, bi, tranquil, whoever you are, we will love you unconditionally.

And you will always have two parents who love you and a roof over your head.

We promise.

Which does not happen with a lot of parents, which does not.

One way people

get that more recently is through social media or years ago, AOL was one way, planned it out, all kinds of stuff.

But also, there's so much homophobia now.

Twitter's owner uses it to spread homophobic conspiracy theories, for example, about Paul Pelosi.

It's full of, you know, on the negative side.

It used to be quite a positive thing, social media, because you could find people like you.

A lot of people talked about that.

Did you use that?

Did you use social media?

And do you, what do you suggest for kids now?

Because it's a mixed bag now.

It's not, it's not supportive.

And lots of people.

It's funny.

I was just talking to some young people.

I said, you know, when I studied abroad in Germany and I made those really good friends from all over the country, the first time I made friends who affirmed my identity, I was telling them that our Facebook group was the thing that, you know, gave me hope.

And these young people said Facebook wasn't around in 2006.

Made me feel really old.

But yeah, I certainly remember as a young person, like logging online and being able to chat with those friends and feeling like I had community, I had connection.

And now, yeah, I mean, you know what it's like to open Twitter.

I open Twitter and so I just get punched in the face of homophobia and hate and the algorithms all mess up.

You do and I particularly

don't enjoy being on there because it's just so messy.

And I worry about, you know, I'm an adult.

I've, you know, I can handle that.

I understand why people are saying some of the things they are.

But I worry about young people logging on there and not being able to discern between what's real, what's not, what's about,

what isn't,

and questioning their identity and their worth and their humanity every day when they go on social media.

So that is something I'm very worried about.

Yeah, it's changed rather drastically.

It used to be quite supportive and now it's just full of really nasty stuff.

You had an approach.

Let me quote you in your book about bullies, speaking of which, it's always best to ask someone to explain their question or insult when you sense it's meant to harm you.

Bullies often recoil when they have to explain their meanness, just ask, what do you mean by that?

And give them time to explain.

They usually are weak or silly.

Their point is, who would you like to challenge today, for example, as you travel around?

To ask them what they mean by that.

Yeah.

I mean, there's so many people on the right

behaving like children.

The thing that boggles my mind, not only as a parent, but as a former teacher, is the fact that I held my students, and I think across the country, we hold eighth graders to a higher standard of decorum and ethics than we do our representatives.

Yeah.

And the fact that they go out here with these wild, disgusting accusations, just sweeping accusations about all LGBTQ people,

I want them to answer for that, especially people who get microphones put in front of their face every day and aren't often challenged.

I don't want to repeat some of those accusations, but you know what they are.

And I think, you know, more people, especially in positions of power, should be forced to explain why they're using those words and give us some evidence.

Yeah.

You know, when kids always said something weird in the classroom, I always ask for the evidence.

You know, where'd you hear that?

Where'd you read it?

Where'd you see it?

And it's just so easy for them to lie right now.

But some of these people who have a grip on the Republican Party, you know, they're so detached from reality and the things that people are focusing on.

And they really do remind me of the worst kind of playground bullies.

Absolutely.

Scott?

I like what you said about the importance of parents just

committing or ensuring their kids know that they're loved no matter what.

Do you think that dads

who have sons

at some point need to need to expand on that and say, no matter what, you know, regardless of how you do in school, what your sexual orientation is, do you think that should be that explicit?

Because I do think a lot of families do say we love you no matter what, but the kid doesn't think, no, not really.

Oh, that was me.

That was me.

My parents were so loving and so giving and the kindest people,

but we didn't talk about gay people.

So I assumed that that love was conditional.

You know, if they found out I was gay, then that would go away.

And so definitely the conversation has to be about unconditional love.

And when I was growing up in, you know, rural Michigan, I thought, you know, unless you were playing hockey or football, you know, super athletic, driving the pickup truck,

then you weren't a man, you know?

And I think those conversations have to be explicit.

I want you to grow up to be who you are.

I will love you for who you are.

You know, whether you're gay, straight, bi-trance, whatever, whether you're academically gifted or you're athletically gifted.

I want you to know that it is safe to be yourself.

And I want you to grow up knowing that I will always be here for you unconditionally.

Because I knew my parents were so loving, but I did think that love was conditional.

What if they found out the big secret?

Would they hate me?

Would I lose everything?

You know, and I was that kid questioning whether or not, you know, I should stick around because I didn't want to embarrass them.

And parents have to know the power of their words and their actions.

I mean, not only parents, everybody.

The power in your words and your actions to make people want to stick around.

Yeah, I think one of the things is they're still hurting from losing so much over the many years to gays and lesbians.

You know what I mean?

Normal, like marriage and kids and everything else.

But your book is geared toward young LGBTQ plus readers.

What straight people, you want straight people to read it, right?

About, because one of the things that surprises me, and it literally happened the other day, we're talking about a trans issue.

And I was like, you know, transition people are often kicked out of the house, et cetera, et cetera, as particularly gay people are.

I certainly had my share of difficulty.

And they were like, really?

Does that happen?

Like, it was, I literally was like, where have you been?

Like, do you ever, like, do you know any trans people?

Do you know?

It was sort of shocking.

I was, and I was like, it's 2023 and you haven't like understood this at a very basic level.

So you want straight people presumably to read this?

Because sometimes I'm like, you're kidding me, straight people.

Like, you're kidding me.

100%.

I want parents to read this.

I hope it's helpful for teachers.

You know, I included some resources in the back of the book for them.

And you're absolutely right, especially about trans people.

Every time I have sat down and had a roundtable with trans students

or just, you know, trans people in general, the room is never just full of happy stories.

It's never like, yeah, I'm trans and everything's great.

Yeah.

Which is,

if you are talking to people who don't know, that you know, it's alarming.

The thing that I want straight people, especially, to understand, is that when you are presented with something new, at least when I am presented with something new, the first thing you should do, the first thing I always try to do, slow down and listen and learn.

And right now, especially with trans issues,

we need straight people to understand that like every major medical organization in this country

approves of gender-affirming care, right?

Psychiatric organizations, educational organizations, you have all these people talking about the benefits and the life-saving benefits of affirming trans people.

And then you have a political party that's

raging war against them rather than meeting trans people where they're at, rather than sitting down with these organizations, medical organizations, mental health organizations.

They don't care.

They want them to be dead.

They want them to be dead.

That is the only explanation.

And that's, you know, when we're saying, saying, what do you mean by that?

Explain that.

That's what I want them to boil it down to.

Because if you don't believe that, then show me how you're showing up for trans people.

If you truly believe that they are worthy of dignity and life,

then show me how you're making sure that they know that they can exist freely and openly and safely in America today.

So my book, yes, is, you know, I hope, hopefully helpful for young people, any, any person, part of our ever-growing acronym.

You know, as long as you're not straight, I feel like everyone's just getting othered and the acronym will just keep growing.

And hopefully, it's helpful for young people, but I really hope it's helpful for their parents and the people that love them.

Yeah, I just hit them on the head with the book itself.

But, Scott, last question, and then I have one final one.

I'm curious if you have any thoughts.

There's a bit of a fissure in the gay community, the notion that

gender-affirming care in some ways might threaten the gay community.

I've heard some fairly well-known gay

journalists say that they're worried that, or they seem,

I've just found it odd that they're not, they're not very supportive, quite frankly.

And

it creates, in my view, and I'm putting my bias here, a dangerous level of confusion and validation that, well, if look, what gay people are saying about this?

Any

thoughts?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I mean,

white cisgender gay men have not always been the most inclusive within the community.

And

it's not just as a gay person, just as a human being.

I am not threatened by trans people, and I have lost nothing because trans people exist.

I, you know, I don't go through my life wondering or thinking about the existence of other people and how, you know, that threatens my identity or my existence.

You know, going to Starbucks or going to Target and getting my kids from daycare and, you know, doing all those things.

I'm not threatened by the existence of trans people.

And I also feel like we have such an obligation as a community to recognize that the way we treat

the most marginalized in our community is a reflection upon how we treat ourselves.

And

I know that I get to walk through life with more privileges than most trans people do.

And isn't it my responsibility to turn around and offer a hand and pull other people up?

and to fight for other people.

But the fact that some people might be so moved as to reject the existence of other people, you know, in our community.

Some people in our community have to realize that they're not just coming for trans people.

They are not.

It's not going to stop there.

And we have to show up for everyone.

They're not.

You know what I call them, Chastin?

We call them, Scott, just so you know, those gays.

We know who they are.

And we always go, oh, those gays.

It's really disheartening to hear that.

It really is, because they're coming for you.

They're coming for you next.

That's what they're doing.

And you just don't.

Well, they've already said it too, right?

I mean, they've already said it in a multitude of ways.

But how do you go through life with all that privilege and just see that growth and progress in our country, but realize that it was on the backs of other people who fought for you either generations ago or who still fight for you right now?

So if we're truly a community, then you show up for everyone in your community.

100%.

Last question I have, Chastin.

What do you think life will be like for gay teens in 20 years?

I honestly have been worried for the first time in a lot of years since having so many kids and you have kids.

I felt very positive.

You know, I thought, oh, the world only spins forward, as they say in Angels in America.

But I'm a little bit worried more than I've ever been.

I don't know why, but I just feel like just like that, they just are, they're coming back once again.

What would you like it to be like?

And what do you think it might be like?

I hope one day my kids ask me why I needed to write a book like this in the first place.

It becomes so irrelevant.

You know, the fact that we had to have a book that helps young people understand that it's okay okay to be themselves, you know.

I think, as a parent,

as you all know, you're just always terrified of everything

all the time.

But I have this mixture of fear and hope because when I travel the country and I meet people who are doing the work, I realize that it's so removed from the noise machine of Washington and the people who get the microphones and the power, you know, but those people also get to cast the votes.

They're also passing those bills.

I mean,

the anti-drug queen stuff.

Oh, come on.

So I see like an upcoming generation and I see the fire in their eyes and I see the people who love them rallying around them and I see that hope and I see that action, but then I

see people passing these bills and passing that legislation.

So if we can find a right way to garner that support and energy and kick these people out of office,

you know, I want to hold on to that hope because I feel like if you, you just can't give up hope, right?

And it's easier to hold on when other people are holding on to you.

And so I think for me, that work, especially that very visible work, is just about surrounding myself with the people who I know are on the right side of history, doing the right thing, and want to continue doing the right thing.

Because if I focus on the noise machine, then it'll just beat us all down.

Yes.

Well, that's why you're from the Midwest and I'm from New York.

So we're manning the barricades over here.

I'm growing children for my militia.

Anyway,

the book is called I Have Something to Tell You for Young Adults by Chastin Budigej.

It's available now.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for having me.

All right, Scott.

I like him so much.

He's such a good guy.

Such a good guy.

One more quick break.

We'll be back for Wins and Fails.

Adobe Acrobat Studio, so brand new.

Show me all the things PDFs can do.

Do your work with ease and speed.

PDF spaces is all you need.

Do hours of research in an instant.

With key insights from an AI assistant.

Pick a template with a click.

Now your prezzo looks super slick.

Close that deal, yeah, you won.

Do that, doing that, did that, done.

Now you can do that, do that, with Acrobat.

Now you can do that, do that with the all-new Acrobat.

It's time to do your best work with the all-new Adobe Acrobat Studio.

Every day, millions of customers engage with AI agents like me.

We resolve queries fast.

We work 24-7 and we're helpful, knowledgeable, and empathetic.

We're built to be the voice of the brands we serve.

Sierra is the platform for building better, more human customer experiences with AI.

No hold music, no generic answers, no frustration.

Visit sierra.ai to learn more.

Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails.

Well, my win is summit at sea.

I like it when young, smart people start companies that don't involve technology.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And also take mushrooms at night.

There we

What do you mean by that?

See what I did there?

Justin said when someone's anyways.

And

I really think it's important

that I think loneliness is

a huge issue for young people.

And so any business that brings together people where they can touch each other and and get to know each other and be in the presence of each other physically, I think is a wonderful thing.

And so I really enjoyed it.

It was good for me because I'm getting more introverted as I get older.

And my talk was initially scheduled for Thursday and the boat was in dock.

And I thought, great, I'm going to give my talk and I'm going to bomb out of here and head home.

And they changed my talk.

So when the boat left for the first time in a while, I was like in the moment and actually had to just relax for a couple of days.

And that was nice.

Anyways, my win is young talented people starting businesses that don't involve technology.

My loss is

I found this,

I think I saw it either on Reels or TikTok, which is interesting.

I'm watching MSNBC now on Meta.

But Chris Hayes, who I don't, I haven't seen a lot of Chris Hayes, he did this really gripping piece on a family in Florida

who tragically, they have a couple of kids, I believe, tragically found out.

I'm sorry?

Go ahead.

Sorry.

I think I know what you're talking about, but they found out the kid was suffering from, I think it's called Potter syndrome.

I'm sorry, the unborn child was suffering from Potter syndrome, which basically means that the child's or the fetus's organs do not develop, lungs do not develop, certain death

pretty much upon delivery.

And because of the laws that have been passed by a Florida Senate and legislature, average age 57, 70% are men, and our governor, who wants to inflame people, the crazies holding straws in Iowa, this is how it plays out on the ground.

And that is this

lovely family can't find anyone.

These are not people who are all about choice and taking day-after pills.

These are people who would, under almost any circumstances, decide to take the child or carry the child to term.

And they can't find someone in Florida because the laws are now so restrictive and punitive, it potentially involves jail for a medical professional that no one will perform

a terminated pregnancy.

And so, this family, this mother, has to carry a child and among other things, explain to her

son that this kid is not going to come home with them and then have to go into a hospital, deliver the child, and without getting into details, suffer this gruesome death.

And you think to yourself, we have a guy who wants to represent America.

You have a Florida legislature that is a bunch of men in their 50s torturing

women.

Literally.

Well, that's what the father, the

grandfather said.

This is pure torture.

This is pure torture.

That piece.

It's in the Washington Post,

the short life of Milo was devastating.

Devastating.

And costly, too, by the way.

I would bet a very religious person would say, good, that the baby lived for the short time and can go to Jesus.

I can just see that, too.

That was what infuriated these people didn't deserve.

But

tortured that person

is in the vast, vast minority.

And unfortunately, that viewpoint, because of minority rule, has bubbled up because our electoral system now values extremist positions and people who take positions that show absolutely no empathy for what happens at the ground level.

You must read this piece.

The Washington Post is producing, they would just want a Pulitzer Prize for their coverage of abortion issues, for example.

But this piece is devastating.

And there's two of them, actually.

And

it stays with you forever.

This piece is amazing.

Amazing journalism, amazing story.

These people coming forward, I'm sure at great risk to themselves.

And you're literally like, fuck you, Ron DeSantis, you torturing fuck, fuck.

It was a wonderfully instructive way to understand how badly these legislative efforts impact people.

You know, it's not wonderful.

You know what I mean?

It just really hits home.

Those are good ones.

I would say my win was the states along the Colorado River,

which

supplies water and electricity to most of the West, finally reached an agreement with the Biden administration.

It's a government in good action.

It's going to protect a lot of lakes.

It's exchange for $1.2 billion in federal funding.

They have to stabilize this river for states of California, Arizona, Nevada, all these states, Colorado.

And so it's really important that they pass this.

It's good government in action.

It's not a perfect solution.

There's just not enough water for the amount of people that live there and all the electricity demands.

But it's that they reached a deal with, to me, government does work and we'll see where it goes.

But they definitely,

it was a tough, tough, tough negotiation with scarcity.

And so I thought that was.

a very positive thing.

I was going to mention the Milo story in the negative thing.

I would urge people to read that story.

It'll change your life.

And it's so depressing.

And yet, these people are so brave to have told their story in this way.

And I feel so awful for them in so many ways.

Okay, Scott, that's the show.

We kind of ended on a sad note, but it's we can't end there.

What are you doing this week, Kara?

What am I doing this week?

I'm going to give the commencement address at Cooper Union.

Of course, you are.

I'm going to talk about how AO is going to destroy us all.

Now, what should I say?

What would be the message?

And I will tell them from you.

What would be the message?

Tell your kids you love them unconditionally.

Oh, very nice.

Well done.

I like that, Scott.

And also that the people in the audience that are, they aren't going to be around forever.

Yes, I was going to do a big death thing.

That's where I was going.

And I thought the parents would hate it, but the students would like it.

That's my feeling.

The parents like it.

Their kids come up and hug them.

The parents like it.

Oh, yeah, okay.

Hug your parents.

Hug them.

Even if you don't like them, hug them.

Anyway, so that's what I'm doing.

That's a good thing.

I think that's hopeful.

I like the young people, just like Chastin was saying.

Young people, there's a lot of better people in this country than are representing us.

There are.

There really are once you go out.

Minority rule.

He is right.

He is 100% right.

And we have to keep that in mind because the noisy, small group of people will kill us if we let them, I think.

Anyway, that's a hopeful thing.

What are you doing this week?

I'm back in London, so it's going to be a lot of Premier League football and time with the dogs.

I'm going to meet.

And weather, good weather.

Good weather.

Defined good sister.

I'm going tonight to

meet some.

It's Parents' Night at the American School in London, and I'm going to meet parents, which I'm excited about.

Oh, wow.

When I say excited, meaning I'd rather not go, but

we've committed to going.

Good.

Well, that's good.

End of school.

And

also, Clara's school ends this week, and Alex will be graduating soon.

So that'll be fun.

That'll be fun.

A lot of changes.

Cha-cha changes.

Anyway,

have a beautiful beginning of summer, everybody.

It's coming this week on Memorial Day, and please enjoy yourself and think about hugging hugging your children.

Anyway, we want to hear from you.

Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind.

Go to nymag.com/slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51PIT.

Today's show was produced by Larry Neyman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin.

Ernie Endertot engineered this episode.

Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Mili Severio.

Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts.

Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Box Media.

We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech in business.

We love you unconditionally.

This month on Explain It to Me, we're talking about all things wellness.

We spend nearly $2 trillion on things that are supposed to make us well.

Collagen smoothies and cold plunges, Pilates classes and fitness trackers.

But what does it actually mean to be well?

Why do we want that so badly?

And is all this money really making us healthier and happier?

That's this month on Explain It To Me, presented by Pureleaf.

Support for the show comes from Mercury.

What if banking did more?

Because to you, it's more than an invoice.

It's your hard work becoming revenue.

It's more than a wire.

It's payroll for your team.

It's more than a deposit.

It's landing your fundraise.

The truth is, banking can do more.

Mercury brings all the ways you use money into a single product that feels extraordinary to use.

Visit mercury.com to join over 200,000 entrepreneurs who use Mercury to do more for their business.

Mercury, banking that does more.