The Oscars, a Silicon Valley Bank Update, and Data Privacy

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Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway is in line at the bank trying to get his money out.

Now he can.

Today, I'm joined by pop culture expert, Texan, and host of Intuit, Sam Sanders.

Welcome, Sam.

Hi, Kara.

It's so good to be here joining you from Austin, just an hour and a half north of my hometown of San Antonio.

Wow.

We're both in Austin.

We're at South by Southwest.

I did a bunch of interviews.

You're doing a bunch of things.

We had a nice Fox Media dinner last night.

What have you been doing here?

So on Friday night, I got to moderate the panel for the premiere of Swarm, this new Amazon Prime video show,

the brainchild of Donald Glover.

It's all about a pop star who feels a lot like Beyonce and a super fan of hers starts to kill people for this pop star.

And it is probably the first time I've ever seen a black woman serial killer on screen.

And it's really good.

So that was Friday night.

So wait, so that's like the beehive getting murderous, right?

Exactly.

That's why it's called Swarm.

Yeah.

Right, got it.

Apparently, Beyonce's seen it.

I have an interview with the showrunner that runs Tomorrow in my podcast feed.

It's a good show.

It's a really good show.

You're a murderous fan because why?

Tell me why.

And it makes you question a lot of the ways that we are all fans of people that we love.

It makes you question internet and social media culture.

It's one of those shows that leaves you with more questions and answers.

And I love those.

It was really good.

Right.

Seems dark.

Murderous fans.

And then on Tuesday, I'm interviewing Julio Torres, former SNL writer, has a few comedy specials and a former show on...

I think HBO called Los Espookies.

He has a new kind of comedic movie about immigration.

Always a funny topic, but go ahead.

Yeah, it's him and Tilda Swinton,

and she's wonderfully crazy in this movie.

And the whole thing is just whimsical and delightful.

So that's my week.

Oh, wow.

That was great.

I had to interview Kevin Sistrom, who was

the founder of Instagram, co-founder.

And then he has a new company called Artifact.

He's trying to change the way people read news and get good quality news.

And that was great.

It was on the main stage.

And then

I did a little thing with Jose Andres, who was quite good.

I was there for that.

Yes, you asked a good question.

He was really, really great.

I don't think he gave you an answer, but nonetheless, it was good.

And he's obviously the famous chef, World Central Kitchen.

This morning, I had a thing with Slack where I interviewed Lawrence Wright, who is a great writer, and he wrote a big piece about Austin and the changing Austin.

Essentially, Austin is inheriting all the jackasses who left San Francisco.

And I was like, good luck.

You know, the ones who complained about San Francisco and wouldn't stop complaining.

A lot of them are here in Miami.

And so we talked about that and the changing nature of this city, which is sort of a well of liberalism in

Texas, which is quite conservative, and also how that changes with all these libertarians, especially someone like Elon Musk moving in.

And so who wants to build his own town, right?

I know, right?

Well, he wants to build his own town, but there's lots of people.

Joe Lonsdale, a whole bunch of people have moved here, along with Hollywood, more Hollywood celebrities, et cetera.

And, you know, it was good.

He was, you know, he's been here since 1980.

So he's an immigrant to the city, too, but loves it.

He's from Texas, also, like you are.

Yeah.

And so it was good discussion about the changing nature.

And as we were talking, we were surrounded by all these giant buildings, and Austin has changed so much.

And this idea of keep Austin weird is that sort of a quaint

that's over.

It's over.

And these people that are coming in are not, they're weird in a bad way, in a dark way.

And so we'll see.

I have been coming to Austin since I was a kid in San Antonio, and it actually used to be weird.

It actually used to be edgy.

And it's kind of gone the same way as Portland, Oregon.

It's almost sister city.

It got too expensive.

And now you walk down South Congress, where it used to be the live music capital of the world.

You know, there's a Soho house in these fancy stores I usually only see in Los Angeles.

It feels like Los Angeles.

Yes, it does in a lot of ways.

And, you know, I have to say, San Francisco, I just, I'm going back in a week.

It's gotten better.

It's been cleared out.

It's like the rains have come.

We've washed out the assholes and it's back to being just a lovely place.

to live.

You know what I mean?

And we have problems, but one of the things that drives me nuts is how these people leave and they can't stop talking about San Francisco and the California.

And, you know, I'm like, well, you're welcome for the internet, all those fruits and vegetables, and we will keep innovating and you can

good luck.

Good luck here.

Good luck wherever you go.

My only fear with the folks coming to Austin, it's already getting too expensive for folks.

And it seems like some of the tech bros that have come out here are going to start to trickle down to San Antonio.

Yeah.

Don't do it.

Leave my city alone.

Leave San Antonio alone.

They want to take over.

They're like a mold, my friend.

You'll see.

You'll see.

And then they'll complain about the homelessness or you're too nice to poor people.

And then we'll go on from there.

They could care less about anybody but themselves.

Anyway, good luck, Texas.

Enjoy.

We're happy to, you know, when they started complaining, there's two things that happened when they left.

Some for many for Miami, many for Texas.

And Texas has had a very significant tech scene for a long time.

Not a huge one, but very important with Dell.

Dell came from Texas, yeah.

Apple had a big facility, a lot of stuff.

And it started off as a place where we were going to win in the semiconductor wars in the 80s.

So it's had a long history.

And it's never, you know, rivaled Silicon Valley.

It still doesn't.

But nonetheless, the rocketry has been here.

And Elon's not the, it's just the latest, but it's always NASA has been here and everything.

And one of the things that was interesting is when they leave, they always talk endlessly about San Francisco.

And it always reminds me of like a girlfriend,

someone who broke up with you, and you can't stop talking how much you hate her.

You know what I mean?

That kind of thing.

And then,

and, you know, I'm like, good luck, goodbye.

See you.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

That's what I'm saying.

Well, and this is what always bothers me about those kind of people they have the means to move anywhere but they're awful everywhere yes they never find a place where they'll be happy and nice no exactly and also they're here for taxes they don't have them they don't like taxes and they don't like poor people and having to pay for poor people or homeless people and so they blame it on wokeism and this and that and they'll do the same thing here they're they're they're like locusts and you're welcome for your billionaire fortunes you should thank california and whatever good luck i hope they build things and just remember alex jones is a homegrown native here So

you can make your own assholes, Commander Factor.

Anyway, I love Austin.

I do love Austin, and I have a great time.

Have you got some barbecue?

Yes, I have a little bit of

salt lick.

I can't eat meat as much as I used to.

I don't eat as much.

But I love it.

I love barbecue, but I'm getting old, Sam.

I got the big beef rib.

Where?

Where'd you go?

At Terry Black's barbecue.

Oh, nice.

Anyway, today we'll talk about laundry taxes and the Oscars.

That's why you're here.

Nears we buy everything everywhere all at once and also the worst case scenarios playing out in user online privacy.

We'll get to that.

And we'll take a listener question about podcasting, Sam.

You have to answer that.

Okay.

Let's talk briefly about the latest with Silicon Valley Bank.

President Biden addressed the nation early on Monday.

He said that executives at failed banks would be fired.

Deservedly.

His comments came after the government shut down another bank over the weekend, Signature Bank.

The government has said that depositors in both banks will be made whole even above the $250,000 insurance mark of the FDIC.

Mark, investors, on the other hand, will not be bailed out as they should not.

Here's President Biden.

Investors in the banks will not be protected.

They knowingly took a risk, and when the risk didn't pay off, investors lose their money.

That's how capitalism works.

I think he's correct.

Investors should not be protected.

They took a risk.

That's how capitalism works, a very good way of saying it.

We're going to talk more when Scott returns on Friday.

But one of the things that I would like people to remember for disclosure is Vox Media Banks with SVB.

Jim Bankoff had a sigh of relief last night when that was announced.

This is not a bailout, by the way.

This is not a bailout.

They are going to take control of the treasuries and the assets.

The reason they had trouble is they were doing a fire sale on treasuries, and that's why they were losing the money.

The government's just going to hold on to these assets and own them, presumably.

They will also own the loans so they possibly can make money on this.

This is not a bailout of rich people.

The rich people who are the investors are getting hosed as they should be.

But just try to keep that in mind.

And there's been a little bit of ugliness about, let's not say, rich tech people.

These are small businesses, lots of employees.

There's no good, especially when there's no cost to the federal government here.

It's the right thing to do.

It's an elegant, easy solution.

And it's the government at work.

And what really drove me crazy, I had a lot of difficulty over the weekend because a lot of the tech bros were going, were screaming in all caps about this and that.

They were mad about this?

No, they were mad about the government not stepping in.

Of course, the government was going to step in.

They are just so dumb.

And they just scream.

And now they're taking credit for screaming.

And what they did is cause panic and fear and anger and everything else.

And they did no good.

And you didn't have an impact, boys.

And let me just say on pivot, we had an emergency one.

Everything we said was going to happen happened because we're calm and we don't have to scream just because I get stuck a little bit.

This is what I wanted to ask you about.

I've been reading up on this.

I don't know this world too well.

But I have been getting some really interesting emails from First Republic Bank the last few days.

I just signed a mortgage with them.

Your mortgage will be fine.

Don't worry, don't worry.

This will be fine.

But one of the things that I was reading about, or a few things I was reading about with this bank failure, the thing that this bank was going through happens to a lot of banks.

And the way that they were going to address it is the way a lot of banks address it, but they didn't communicate effectively to this type of crowd.

I keep reading that.

Yeah, this crowd sold fast.

They're very online.

That's the thing.

This is a different type of bank customer.

If my bank

all of a sudden had to start selling shares or buying things or this or that, I wouldn't know and I wouldn't care.

And I'd be fine, right?

But it seemed as if all these customers at Silicon Valley Bank didn't just know the things that were happening.

They were gossiping and talking with everyone else and they all kind of ginned up some fear.

Some of them might have done a run on purpose.

Some of them might have done it.

They're going to look into that.

They're going to investigate that.

If this was a classic run on a bank, spurred by online mania and spurred by all cap screamers about things.

And you know what?

It didn't, it was solvent on Wednesday.

This didn't have to go down this way.

So, if these tech bros and these startup folks and these Silicon Valley types were less online, could this have been avoided?

Yes.

Yes, sort of.

I think it would happen was, you know, these startups need this money.

And so their VCs wrote them.

Some of them said, by the way, some VCs acted with great responsibility, 100%.

And, you know, this was a good bank for Silicon Valley people.

It catered to their needs, right?

They have very specialized needs and very helpful.

A lot of people banked with them.

Lots of every startup I know banked with them.

I'm very familiar with them.

What they did is they made a bad decision to buy treasuries and hold them as the interest rates were going up.

They should have been smarter about that.

They were fired because they made a bad decision.

This is not fraud.

The assets aren't gone.

It's not FTX.

And one of the things that's infuriating is this

entry into the conversation.

I don't think it really does have an impact with regulators in any way.

They didn't pressure anybody.

Then they take a lap.

That drives me crazy that they did something.

They did nothing.

They created a panic, is what they did.

And that's the problem here.

And one of the things that regulators just handle it the way they do with banking crises very well, I would say.

I think they did the last couple.

Both Republicans and Democrats did a good job on the last couple of financial scares.

It was really scary and difficult.

And one of the things that's important to remember is that

this is not fraud.

And again, it's just incompetence, I guess, in terms of not anticipating the rise in interest rates and being stuck in three-year treasury bombs.

The government can hold them and then

they'll get the money back, and that'll be that.

And so

good outcome.

Is this going to have any kind of chilling effect on Silicon Valley and startup land in general?

It's already happening with the layoffs.

I think it'll give an opportunity to do more layoffs and get rid of startups that aren't working.

That VCs will use it because they're rapacious fucks.

And so that's what they'll do.

They'll clear their thing out and blame it on something else.

But yeah, it'll it's there's a contraction happening in silicon valley and that's natural it's it's just the way things are kevin sistrom had all his startup money in silicon valley bank and he was like all of it he goes what's one percent less than 100 it's nine he had 99 of his money and he didn't know what he was going to do monday this is a guy who's he's well he's also a billionaire so yes he's fine he has five people so it was a little easier right and he has money and but he it was it was a little scary for everyone it's touch and go if you can't have access to your capital you know i will say from the outside looking in because i don't cover silicon valley from the outside looking in, it feels like the people in charge did what they needed to do.

That is, Yellen and Biden took care of it.

So thanks, guys.

Yes, they do.

Thanks a lot.

And

you tech bros, you did nothing, and you deserve no credit.

Anyway, I want to, I had, I whacked them all

night long.

I was like, stop it.

Stop screaming.

Stop kissing in your pants.

Stop kissing in your pants, you bunch of wimps.

And shut up and stuff.

And also, they moved from being COVID experts to banking experts.

That's what I think.

One thing that's interesting, this is from Britain, and you may have some familiarity.

Sports broadcaster Gary Lineker was back in the host chair after the BBC suspended him for tweeting criticism of the government's migration policies.

He called the government policy to stop people from crossing the English Channel immeasurably cruel.

The BBC suspended him for comment.

He's a sports commentator.

This is a weird one.

Many of his colleagues walked out on solidarity, calling it a disruption in BBC sports coverage.

He's a very popular soccer football show.

I guess soccer, though.

On Monday, the two parties announced a deal had been reached for Lineker to return to air.

The director general of the BBC apologized and said the network would launch a review of its social media guidelines.

You work for NPR, right?

And this is the same kind of thing.

How do you navigate?

Like, if you talk about stuff like that, you're a mantra, you know, you cover culture.

So, yeah, I used to cover politics.

It was a lot stricter there.

I think a lot of times the rules need to be beat-specific.

There are things I couldn't say when I was covering the election for president, right?

And I got that.

But now I cover pop culture for Lou, and I should be able to say what I want.

Before I left NPR, I was on a committee that had had set out to rewrite their social media ethics guidelines.

The work was never finished.

Literally nothing ever happened.

You cannot regulate this because what you're asking these companies to do is impossible.

These are people's personal Twitter accounts, personal social media accounts.

And the company is basically saying, either the BBC or whoever, they're saying we should have the right not just to monitor what you post on these things, but to tell you how you post.

And you need to do it from your personal account to amplify our work.

And we're not going to pay you for your tweets, but we're going to tell you how to tweet.

It's an impossible act.

Yeah, because this has become sort of the way people vent, navigate, have their thoughts, and everything else.

And so it's weird.

And some people do cross the line if you're covering politics and say, I hate Trump.

Like, it's a problem.

Like, that should, that I can think they can intervene in.

Even though I've always thought this idea of having no opinion is ridiculous.

Well, the idea of having no opinion as a journalist, this idea of the objective journalist, it only serves

privileged, wealthy, educated, white, straight men.

Because that is a default for objectivity.

And so when people say you have to perform,

they're basically saying be less black, be less woman, be less gay, be less of these things that aren't.

You're being emotional.

You're being emotional.

Exactly.

And so that whole framework, I think, has fallen by the wayside, as it should.

And I think increasingly these legacy newsrooms, and it's always legacy newsrooms.

I get so much less heat about what I tweet from Vulture than I did from NPR.

But these legacy newsrooms, in order to keep up, are going to have to just get over it.

Get over it.

That's interesting.

They always try to use the words emotional and advocacy.

You can be an advocate by what you choose to cover.

The New York Times overweening tech trans coverage for a small group of people.

And this is, it's even the smaller than the trans people.

It's like D-Transitioners or, you know, what's her name?

Harry Potter lady.

J.K.

Rowland.

You know, they write a lot about it.

I'm like, you can be an advocate by writing a lot because you have such power.

And then, you know, there's always this performance for an imaginary listener or an imaginary reader.

But no matter what you do, the people who don't like NPR are not going to like NPR.

There'll be people saying, defund NPR, regardless of what Stevens keep tweets, right?

And so it's like at a certain point, who are you fighting this fight for?

And is it actually helping?

But in general, I think a lot of these newsrooms to...

stay relevant are going to have to let the journalists be pretty free because there are other places where folks can go and be freer.

It's also a wide open landscape right now.

It's also all in plain sight.

And I agree.

One of the things I don't like is when journalists at the same institution start attacking each other.

That I'm like,

that's a civility in a newsroom kind of thing.

And you can take that offline.

You can take your argument offline and they don't have to be performative in that.

And that sometimes I'm like,

this is not the place for this.

And it's actually, it's a problem for

a civil newsroom.

You can fight, but again, do it in a plane.

Although every few years, the New York Times newsroom needs to publicly fight about something.

Yeah, they do.

Again, I'm talking about personal attacks on other journalists.

They can fight about it.

They do that too.

And I will say, as a watcher and a journalist.

Yeah, you like it.

It's fine.

I love it.

You know they're thinking that.

Anyway, speaking of opinions, we're going to have different ones, I think, here.

Let's get to our first big story.

This year's Oscars went off without an incident, but not without making history.

Everything Everywhere All at Once nearly swept the Knight's Top Awards.

It won for Best Picture, Best Actress, Best Supporting Actor and Actress, Original Screenplay, and Directing and Editing.

That's kind of a sweep.

That's a lot.

Michelle Yeo is the first Asian-American woman to win an acting honor.

I cannot believe this in the Academy's 95-year history.

I guess I can believe it.

And only the second person of color to win Best Actress since Holly Berry's win in 2002.

That was a good idea.

I got to clarify you.

She's not the first Asian woman.

She is the first Asian woman who identified publicly as Asian.

Oh, wow.

There was a winner in the 30s who basically passed as white, but was actually Asian.

Asian.

That was Merle Oberon on the Academy Award for Best Actress in her performance in The Dark Angel in 1935.

She was South Asian, but passed as white.

It is really

great to see the Oscars take women as seriously as the men for once.

I think this was the year of Michelle Yeo and of Kate Blanchette.

And there used to be a time when the Oscars didn't like to even think about awards for folks who weren't a certain age, looked a certain way.

And to see them in their 50s do these works that are like masterclasses and to be honored for it, I think it's great.

Let me, let's like kick a listen in her speech, and I loved it.

I thought it was fantastic.

I did a long interview with her when I was at the New York Times at Sway, and she turned out to be kind of wacky and funny.

And I'd expect her to be so grave from the mother in crazy rich Asians, or you know, her amazing career in martial arts and stuff like that in those movies.

Bond, she was a Bond,

not a girl.

She was a force in that one of the the Bond movies.

And so she's had a long, interesting career, but she's hysterical, but she's also inspirational.

Let's listen to her.

For all the little boys and girls who look like me watching tonight,

this is a beacon of hope and possibilities.

This is proof that dreams dream big and dreams do come true.

And ladies, don't let anybody tell you you are ever past your prime.

I like that.

Well, because it's true.

I mean, I remember the Oscars of 15 years ago, the nominees for best actress had to be really hot and like under 35.

And that was all you kind of did unless you were Meryl Streep, right?

Right, that's right.

I think with the big powerhouse performances of the year from women, Kate Planchette and Tar, Sene Michelle and everything,

these are meatier and better roles than the men are getting.

And I like that.

I think it's great.

Netflix also had a strong showing.

It won Best International Feature with All Quiet on the Western Front and Best Animated Feature for Guillermo Del Toro's Pinocchio.

It also won Best Documentary Short with The Elephant Whisperer.

So, how did you do in your Oscar pool?

I figured that everything would do really well, in part because it's a movie that everyone can get behind.

And A24's Oscar campaign for that film was pitch perfect.

Explaining that.

You said this last night.

Yeah.

So, you know, we entered the era of the Oscar campaign.

We we're in the 90s with harvey weinstein and probably the year that it really took off was when shakespeare and love beat saving private ryan and that was just because he did a good job he did a good job of campaigning and and and and ever since then the template has been that like this weinstein school of for months yeah the cast the directors they're out there trying to meet every academy voter that they can to win them over.

And the cast of everything did that the most.

Also, they had a campaign that made made the film more than the film the the the slogan for the film during awards seasons was everything has led to this

and so it's saying a lot about asian identity it's saying a lot about you know michelle yeo and her whole career how do you not support that and i think especially after the year of the slap and declining ratings everyone involved in the oscars needed a feel-good story that everyone could get behind and say this is good it was that was can i ask you it was also a feel-good movie and an inspirational movie even though it was odd with the bagel and everything else It was also, it had the indiness of it, right?

But it also had the, you felt better after watching that movie.

You just did.

I mean, well, this is a movie about how do you love your family and how do you find meaning in life, right?

And the beauty of Everything Everywhere All at Once is that you walk into it thinking it's a film about the multiverse, but it's actually about the bond between a mother and her daughter.

And the multiverse just exists in service of this family story, which I love.

And, you know, I am used to Marvel movies that will oftentimes treat the world building and the multiverse of it all as more important than the actual plot.

This movie did the inverse.

The very conceit of the multiverse just existed to get to the family drama.

And I think that's why it worked so well.

We don't take the multiverse seriously.

Everything in the multiverse is dumb, but mugs and dildos and bagels.

Yeah, there was dildos in it.

There was

hot dog hands.

It was like, it was so surprising and delightful at the same time and also upsetting too.

Like there was a lot of like moments.

Existential.

It's existential.

Michelle Yo's face, and they also had some wonderful side, you know, the other actors, everyone around them, who also was up for best supporting Stephanie Sue, was amazing.

There were so many amazing people around them, including, and I'm, I'm going to mess up his name, but

the older actor, 94 years old, who has been in a million things.

The whole cast was wonderful.

I will say, as much as I love that movie, my least favorite part of the movie was Jamie Lee Curtis.

And I was hoping that Angela Bassett would win the honor.

I know.

Well, I talked to you about that.

That face she had.

She wasn't hiding anything.

She wasn't hiding anything.

I got this dress.

She was amazing.

Everyone knows she is the best part of any movie she's ever in.

And I think I was actually betting on her winning that movie.

I thought that Stephanie Shu and Jamie Lee Curtis would cancel.

would both cancel out the votes for the other, you know, because they're in the same film.

But no,

good for Jamie.

Love her.

But I didn't, I actually.

Yeah, her face.

I love that she did that.

I was like, good for her.

Be honest.

Because

when I asked Jamie Curtis, what's your face when you lose?

What's your face when you win?

And she did the smiley thing.

And I loved it.

I was like, why are you doing that?

Why don't you just say, fuck, I should have won?

That kind of thing.

That's what she did.

And I agree.

Angela Bassett is a national treasure.

She was astonishing

in the sequel to Black Panther.

She carried the movie.

Women carried that movie, really, in a lot of ways.

Big hit.

And

I cannot believe this one keeps turning in performance.

I can believe it because you think about the way the Oscar treats black women.

It's kind of this way, even when they're nominated.

You know, we saw this year

to see the woman king not get more nominations, to see no nomination for Till.

Till.

That's a serious problem.

And I think as much as the Oscars did a good thing by getting everything up there as many times as it did to not honor all of the black women who deserved to be honored in this last year of film,

that was criminal.

Agreed.

I was sort of like, oh, no.

But I think the onslaught of the adorable Jamie Lee Curtis after being in sort of genre movies, as she called them, and she was, she was, you know, True Lies.

She's been in Freaky Friday.

She's been Halloween.

I love Jamie.

Yeah, you know, I think he was just charming the pants off of everybody.

That's the thing they all did.

No one out-campaigned that cast.

They're genuinely charming.

They're genuinely charming.

They're all grateful to be there.

Yeah.

They're genuinely charming.

I don't think she could have.

I thought Jamie Lee was going to, because people are like, that lady's worked like a workman-like activity.

I've seen those activity commercials.

I know she's working.

I know.

People like that story.

I'm not so sure in that case, but Angela Bassett deserves every single award that she's like.

Did you like Jimmy Kimmel hosting?

I thought he was fine.

He's, oh, I like him.

I thought he was fine.

Did you not?

I'm never itching to hear what he thinks, but he's always fine.

I'm never like, what does Jimmy have to say about it?

He was fine.

He made the assembic joke.

He made the same joke.

He had a couple of good jokes.

I like the Nicole Kidman is still stuck in an AMC theater.

I thought that that was funny.

That was funny.

So, everything, will that affect future nominees?

This is the second low-budget budget film to win in a row-to-win best picture.

Coda last year, it beat out huge blockbusters like Who Was Robbed?

Top Gun Maverick.

I'm sorry, I love that movie.

We got into a fight about this.

I already did.

Avatar 2.

But like, listen, this is $15 million.

I think Top Gun spent $50 million on Tom Cruise's hair.

Let's take a side note to Top Gun.

Why don't you love the Top Gun?

It was such a good idea.

It's horrible acting.

Oh, well.

The original film is a classic.

This new one is that that little love plot line between Jennifer Connolly.

Yeah, who looks fantastic.

Let's just take a moment.

Was the most unbelievable plot.

They're not in love.

Come on.

I'm sorry.

The acting was stiff.

They ride around in the Porsche.

No, they sure do.

I just felt like it was really stiff and wooden, and the special effects were great.

And the Planes deserved an Oscar, just the Planes.

It was a stiff movie.

I think it was a classic.

They did the 80s movie.

I watched it with my wife who under duress because she's one of those love.

She's like you, right?

But she actually was like, okay, that was well done.

It was 80s.

It was an 80s movie with better special effects.

And I liked it.

I thought they did a really solid, of course, it brought back people back to the movie theater.

Thank you.

Oh, it sure did.

Made a lot of money.

And not just that, it brought people excitement to come back to the movie theater.

And I thought it was just, it's okay to have a movie like that.

Like, it was well done.

Well done.

And like, I have been enjoying all the movies that are getting me back in theaters.

My thing right now is horror.

Like, horror will get me back in a theater seat.

I'm going to to go see Screen probably tomorrow.

I'm going to, I, I liked Cocaine Bear.

It was funny horror.

I liked Megan.

All that stuff.

Give it to me.

I had, I had, on stage with Jamie Lee Curtis was Donna Langley, who runs Universal.

And she said Cocaine Bear was, she, um, she was in a pandemic, uh, not a drug haze, but she said, I'm in a haze.

It was a pandemic haze, and I just approved it.

Cocaine Bear, and they made a lot of money from that.

And obviously they're very, Jamie Lee Curtis and Donna were involved with the Halloween thing, which they all made so much money out of it.

Well done.

Another well done revival of a movie.

But again, Top Gun,

I would have been loving if they won.

I would have been screaming for

that.

I think Oscar Snobs would have spontaneously combusted.

I did.

You see that kind of movie win Best Picture.

Good.

I can't believe you like the acting.

That's meant to be bad.

And Ed Harris, who's always growling.

I love his whole new growling thing.

My favorite acting of the last year was Cape Blanchette and Tar.

And you don't like Tar.

I love Tar.

I love Tar.

Cape Blanchette is doing the work in that movie.

Okay.

Whatever.

It's a masterclass.

Oh, come on.

Tell folks why you didn't like it.

Tell folks why you didn't like it.

Because it's a lesbian movie where lesbians don't have sex.

I'm sorry.

Like, we don't get Kate Blanchette as a lesbian.

Well, she's been in Carol.

She actually plays a lesbian.

She does lesbian stuff a lot.

She's done it, and she made out with it.

It was adored.

It was great.

Like, literally.

So let me ask you, like, who do you think is hot?

Give me someone hot.

Who do I think is hot right now?

Oh, Chris Pine.

Chris Pine.

That's a man.

Chris Pine's in a gay movie, and they never have sex.

Come on, there's never anything.

She's so pretty.

I don't care.

It's like, no.

Stop Stop walking around and you're.

Also, did you want to see that villain have sex?

She's a villain in the movie.

Yes.

It's Kate Planchet.

Stop.

Second of all, I didn't even know what was going on.

Of course, my wife was like, it's very complex.

I was like, oh my God, what the fuck is happening?

Get me back to Top Gun.

I get it.

I've watched it like three times.

I can watch that opening scene where she's at the fake New Yorker Ideas Festival or whatever.

Like forever.

I just love it.

Okay.

All right.

Whatever.

I just don't know what happened.

At the end, I was like, what happened there?

Like, that's the point.

You're not supposed to know.

No, I want to know.

I was like, I'd like some.

I don't like tar.

I did not like tar.

I truly did not like tar.

I just don't get it.

I feel stupid.

I'm like,

I'm stupid, kid.

It was like, I literally watched plane with Jared, Jared Butler right after.

I was like, I need to watch Plane.

I love Plane.

I love Jared Butler.

Okay.

I get it.

I know your type of movie.

And then Top Gun, which is like, oh, they have to blow up the thing and go over the thing and then the thing.

And then they all have to hug.

And there has to be, speaking of gay scenes, they have to do the gay beach scene of everyone with their shirts off.

But still, like not actually fucking.

I don't fucking in that movie either.

That movie was more gay than Tar.

Let me just say that it had the whole gay scene.

Anyway, come on.

That was a good scene.

I always love the gay scene in Top Gun.

They've had it several times.

So I see a question in here, you know, asking if seeing everything win best picture is going to make studios move to smaller movies.

Yeah, change.

Yeah.

They will always keep making blockbusters on existing IP.

Avatar 2 and Avatar 3, they're going to do it.

Top Gun Maverick or a sequel to that, they'll always do it.

I think there might be more Marvel.

It's coming with Mission Impossible.

Just you can go with me.

You and I can go together.

I mean, the Oscars always love smaller films as opposed to bigger films anyway.

That's just in their DNA.

We actually have an episode in my podcast feed from last Tuesday where we talk about how historically the Oscars never really award blockbusters.

Like Titanic was an outlier, you know?

So I don't think this drastically changes the industry.

If anything, I think it is a

shock to the heart for Marvel.

The first multiverse movie to win an Oscar for Best Picture wasn't a Marvel movie.

It was Everything Everywhere All at Once.

Yeah.

And I think people are going to expect Marvel movies to be as smart and as interesting and groundbreaking and beautiful as Everything Everywhere All at Once is.

Some of them are

that one, but like most of them aren't.

No, they're just working on it.

I don't think the entire industry is going to change because everything won, but I think Marvel is taking notes.

Taking notes.

Absolutely.

You got a story.

Story is important.

Parasites.

Interesting.

Speaking of, I want to get to international parasite director Bong Joon-ho called the Oscars a local festival.

It is changing.

Germany's all quite on the Western front, won awards in four categories.

Best Song went to Natu Natu, which is infectious from Tollywood film RRR.

They were there dancing their little hearts out.

The movies about American icons like Elvis, The Fablemans, came short, though Top Gun and Avatar, of course, won Best Sound and Visual Effects, respectively.

So is there more?

There still isn't the international breakthrough necessarily.

They're on the sidelines kind of stuff.

Is that

a local festival?

It's increasingly local because fewer people watch it every year.

At its peak, the Oscars had 55 million people watch the year that Titanic won Best Picture.

Last year, I think 16 million people watched.

But no matter how international you make your show, this is just the nature of TV.

It's really hard in the era of streaming and on-demand viewing to get people to sit down to watch a three and a half hour show.

Yeah.

They're just not going going to do it.

They're not going to do it unless there's something controversial or

whatever.

It's sort of a formulaic.

It's so formulaic.

It's an old formula, you know?

And I think that we're going to see the way award shows are done change drastically very soon.

The SAGs this year, I want to say, did it on YouTube and it worked out quite well.

I think we're going to see.

They get a lot of money.

All those Golden Globes, they get a lot of money from these networks, right?

I think award shows, as we know it, won't exist 10 years from now.

There'll be something different and hopefully better.

And hopefully not four fucking hours long.

I know.

That is long.

Although the dresses, my daughter watched it for the first, you know, she couldn't pay attention last year.

Did you notice

the carpet this year?

The dresses are great, but the red carpet this year was like champagne-colored.

Yeah, I know.

Jamie Lou Curtis had a good tweet.

She goes, My carpet matches my drapes this year.

It was really good.

She made a gun.

Again, charming.

I don't know.

I don't know.

These things, the Hollywood people love them, right?

They love the parties.

But you could do all of it online.

Honestly, that's true.

I watched every bit of it.

I watched it in pieces.

I watched the best jokes.

I I may consume a bunch of it, but sitting there is just not a thing.

It's an enterprise of diminishing returns.

Halfway through the Oscars last night, they just air the trailer for the new little mermaid movie.

Because they could.

You know, like they're just reaching for straws at this point.

Yeah.

The business model is going to make less and less money every year.

They do this.

They have to figure out a new way to give us award shows.

Yeah, they do.

But I don't know if you can.

It's interesting.

I think people still like the Golden Globes because you never know what's going to happen.

Well, because they're all drunk.

Well, and then, yes, but last year, the Oscars, of course, you never know what's going to happen with will smith which they veered away from

although they did joke about it which i got a little bit yeah it was good but it was um

you know they that was not something that was good for the brand although it got attention right sure did it so anyway he was not there um one thing last question on this um Netflix hasn't one still hasn't won best picture.

Could that help or do they care?

Or is it important to attract an audience?

They made a big move and Apple TV saw a 20% increase in new users after Coda won last year.

It's not clear if they stick around.

Does it matter to them?

They definitely are there.

Ted Sarandos is there.

I think Tim Cook went last year.

I think America's conversation about Netflix is so myopic.

Netflix is the international streaming company.

They have a footprint in every continent.

They are everywhere.

And they're poised to be even bigger abroad.

They are here.

They're truly global in a way that no other streamer is.

So Netflix doesn't care.

At first, they really wanted to make a point and prove themselves in Hollywood to the industry.

At this point, they're hell bent on global domination, and the Oscars matter so little in that larger framework.

Yeah, that is.

And what they do really well is they'll take a show that's a hit in one country and then make like 12 other versions for 12 other countries where it could also be a hit.

If you're doing that.

You don't need a best picture audience.

Yeah, I think so too.

And I think putting that Chris Rock show, I didn't love the show, honestly.

I thought it was kind of tired.

But that was a great idea.

That's the sort of brain channel of Bella Vision.

And they're still the biggest.

They have the most customers.

I I don't know.

Everyone wants to act like Netflix is over.

They're just less cool than they used to be.

They're fine.

They're not.

They're just fine.

Yeah.

Speaking of streaming, Paramount is reportedly looking to sell its majority stake in BET, perhaps to Tyler Perry.

It could use the cash to build out.

Might as well.

He's basically Mr.

BET already.

I know, right?

It could use the cash to build out its streaming network.

It did turn down a $3 billion offer, and before that, a $6 billion offer for the Showtime network, which includes shows like Billions and Yellow Jackets.

I had an argument with Matt Bellany, who writes a great column for Puck.

I was like, they can't sell Showtime.

It's where they have to get content.

This is the BET's aside or as a smaller thing.

This is the heart of attracting great content makers.

They're saying Paramount Plus with Showtime or something that it's confusing from a branding perspective.

But what do you think about this?

Yeah, it's confusing, but also it can be fine.

You know, like right now, FX kind of only exists as a brand on Hulu, you know, and like that's enough.

I think also Showtime has to exist as long as it's like on cable, right?

They have to have some kind of infrastructure to be there.

Larger picture, I want as a consumer, all of these streamers to just go ahead and consolidate because it's getting too busy for me anyway.

So if any of these machinations mean that I have to click fewer buttons to watch what I want to watch on streaming, then good.

But this is the way it has to be, right?

There's too many streamers.

Some of this stuff has to go or get consolidated.

So for me, that's the big picture long term.

Or become very nichey.

So you like it like BET.

Like BET has got an audience and they can, if it can reach all its audience, that's great.

But part of a bigger thing, it gets lost.

It gets lost in those consolidations.

But I don't think they are going to sell.

It'll be really interesting what happens over at Paramount if it sells itself.

Well, because Showtime does have, Showtime has shows that critics and TV fans love.

They've got billions.

They have

hold on to Showtime.

It's a good brand.

Yeah, it's a good brand.

And they also have, you know, obviously the Yellowstone juggernaut, which will eventually fall out of favor.

But, you know, Dick Wolf is still churning out law and orders and they continue to do it.

It's a very lucrative business.

So it'll be interesting to see what happens to these smaller studios, which Paramount is now, versus the big ones.

It's going to be a struggle for them.

It's not worth very much.

Well, what is streaming worth at all right now?

Most of these streamers are losing money, losing lots of money.

So they all have to find a way to be profitable.

Not Netflix.

Not Netflix.

Not Netflix.

Yeah.

But I think increasingly all of these streamers are going to have to feel a lot more like the TV that you and I grew up with

commercials and set show times.

And you know what?

That might be what needs to happen.

I think watching shows like The Last of Us become destination viewing on Sundays.

People like that.

People like that.

And I think people are actually okay with ads.

I have Peacock and I have the ad version.

I watch the ads.

It's fine.

Do you think binging is over, though?

I mean, look, look, successions and other things about to come back.

I'm doing the podcast on it for them.

It's that's every week.

You have to wait for it.

And

it's going to happen.

I I think that is that leads to more of a water cooler feel, which people want.

When I binge a show by myself, I have nobody to talk about it with, really.

When I watch The White Lotus over those seven or eight weeks, when I watch The Last of Us or Succession, I have

dozens of fruitful and fun conversations with my friends and strangers online because there's time to do it.

I think that's the way that we're meant to watch as a community.

So I want more of that.

Well, good, good.

And then maybe you could do a podcast on on what the fuck was going on in tar.

Anyway, Sam, let's go on a quick break.

When we come back, we'll talk about another scandal involving priests and location data and take a listener mail question

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Sam, we're back with our second big story.

Some Catholic priests are being watched from above, but not in the way they thought.

Catholic nonprofit group spent millions of dollars buying up location data of priests who use gay dating apps to share the data with bishops across the country.

We've seen something like this before.

In 2021, a high-ranking priest resigned after a Catholic publication used purchase data to show his visits to gay bars.

Some of the same men behind that effort are said to be involved in this one.

Creepy, although question, though.

So, these gay apps will sell location data

to anybody who wants to buy it.

No, you can buy location data and then you attract them to gay apps.

But not from the app itself.

Some of them are.

Like, there's, there's, you know, there's, it's, it's, you can get people's location data.

Wow.

Yeah.

Wow.

Okay.

Yep.

I mean, gosh, I just feel like at this point,

I don't, I feel horrible for these men and what they went through.

But also, as a gay man, speaking to these other gay men, you really wanted to join the Catholic priesthood?

You really like you, there are other churches where you can just be gay.

This is the one where it's like going to be an issue.

Who are these people that are still trying to become gay Catholic bishops?

I don't get it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's an interesting issue.

My ex-wife used to run Planet Out, one of the two gay, you know, original portals.

One was gay.com, and they ended up merging, but i don't know if they probably still exist um and um and one of the things she always said in one of her decks is they one percent of their traffic came from the vatican vatican city i know and so she was always like look at that like of course they were using the site you know i get that but i do see why people are closeted on some level they may be very religious and they have to it's not it's just not just limited to gays i have friends who are catholic this they had a miserable marriage they didn't couldn't get divorced they didn't want to get divorced their religion held a very strong thing on it and so in this case it's creepy that they are being tracked by much more conservative members who are trying to get rid of this.

And so, it's very hard to choose between something that means a great deal to your faith and this, which is who you are, right?

And so, I don't, I, my, I focus on the surveillance part of it.

Like, they could do this to anybody.

Where did you go?

What did you do?

And especially when it comes to gay people, tracking, oh no, you know what I mean?

This is a constant risk and danger.

And

it's sad.

I'll see these headlines.

Every few weeks or months, you'll see a new story about location data and personal data being places it shouldn't be.

None of it shocks me anymore.

I just assume everyone's buying and selling everyone's data.

And it's sad that I'm so resigned to it.

But I'm like, oh, of course.

I tell everybody your phone is a tracker.

You're being tracked.

You're being tracked.

You put it on yourself and you carry it around.

And then you give up data about where you are, too.

You're feeding the data monster in a way.

But on Apple, there's even a setting that if you don't turn it off, it will tell you exactly where you've been.

It stays on the phone, but if someone gets a hold of your phone, they can see it.

And so I show it to people.

I'm like, okay, you spent 45 minutes here and then you were here.

And they're like, how did you know I was there for 45?

See, it says it on your phone.

It's tracking you.

So my thing is just like, all right, that's happening.

I guess can't stop it at this point.

I do wonder what a scandal like this says about the future of the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church needs all the people it can get right now.

You know, people are not going to church anymore.

The Catholic faith is losing people all the time.

Just from a business perspective, it would be smart for the Catholic Church to be as open and affirming and welcoming to any and everybody as possible because they need more people.

That's what I don't get.

It's not going to happen.

It's not going to happen.

I was raised in a Catholic school.

I'm not Catholic, but I know that faith well.

And yeah, they're not setting themselves up for like long-term success, I will say, you know,

well, my heart breaks breaks for these priests, but I don't think they care.

I don't think they care.

And, you know, I think it does get to the issue of meaningful privacy legislation.

Do you know I bang on that a lot?

Well, is that ever going to happen, though?

Well, that's the issue.

It almost did in this session.

Of course, it was that in antitrust legislation and algorithmic transparency legislation ended up on the floor.

Congress's health insurance data was stolen last week, for example.

Really?

Yes.

They claim to have the data.

It's up and verified, including social security numbers on BlackMart 4.

And there's so much information everywhere.

And the companies are being sloppy about it.

And then they themselves are using it for all kinds of things, selling it and things like that.

They say it's anonymized, but much of it isn't.

Who else?

This is who else benefits from our lax privacy environment.

The FBI admitted this month that it previously bought Americans' location data instead of getting a warrant.

Why wouldn't they?

Like, God,

Politico reports that Amazon's ring gave police footage from inside a man's home as they investigated his neighbor.

Whoa.

You know, spokesperson called the story a hoax, but Amazon walked that comment back.

People can hack those things, all of them, not just ring.

I don't have any.

My son went around and unplugged.

We had a house we moved into, had some, and my son literally walked around and unplugged all of them.

I believe it.

They're so scary now.

I'll be walking the dog around the neighborhood, and the little cameras in the front yard will say, We see you, or you're on camera.

It's so creepy.

Yeah, yeah, it is.

These data brokers, they sell location to people who visited Planned Parenthood.

It starts to get very frightening.

And then, of course, what you watch, something you do, what you watch, what you're not just for selling you stuff, but who are you?

And they can parse you into the smallest little bits.

When you think, and it's good for, say, you know, the area you cover culture in Hollywood, because they can know what to give you, right?

You do that on Amazon by what you watch.

You put footprints everywhere.

And it starts to be a little bit more difficult.

I'm not sure if it's good, though.

You know, I mean, we're in this.

Speaking of my, no, but

let's think about, okay, I cover a lot of TV and movies, and the folks that make TV and movies have gotten better than they've ever been at tracking what I watch, how I watch it, when I watch it.

It hasn't made the content better for me.

Right.

I don't think the TV I'm watching now is drastically better than the TV I was watching 15 years ago.

Well, it does give you knowledge.

Like, you know, I'm sure that you know the Ashton Kutcher Reese Witherspoon movie, like your playstone.

I want to know about it.

Was it?

You know what?

It's Kara Swisher.

I wouldn't have seen it, but I was like, I was like, yeah, it was ridiculously stupid.

And it was so old school.

And I loved it.

I love old school.

It was like a romance drama.

And, you know, I definitely, and then I was served up on Netflix also, you people.

I did not like that movie.

Tell me why.

Kenya Barris hasn't made a good thing since Blackish.

And I think he's.

Duck in this kind of feedback loop with himself where he keeps rehashing his own life on screen instead of just dealing with his stuff with the therapist.

I don't know.

It's just the jokes were tired, if not just downright offensive.

Yeah.

It was, it was a strangely sexless movie to be a rom-com.

Like the romance between the two leads made no sense.

They didn't seem to like each other, you know?

So it just felt off.

It just felt off and not made for this era or this moment.

It was such a good cast, right?

That's the thing.

How do you screw up David DeCovney and Eddie Murphy and Julia Lee Trice?

How do you screw that up?

How do you screw that up?

Yeah, and I love Lauren London.

I love her.

She's great.

She's great.

But the movie didn't hold together for me.

It didn't hold together for me.

You know, what was interesting is that it felt like Guest Who's Coming to dinner i was like look what i'm watching that was a better movie right that was a great movie

i will say you know i think it's like all right we have to re-watch that it might not have been a better movie i haven't seen it

like you could be like oh ow yeah this question of like is the data and surveillance on what we watch making stuff better for us to watch yeah it's not but i think the larger issue with our viewing experiences, period, there's just too much shit to watch right now.

And it makes the experience of watching anything harder than it should be and less fun.

Like last year, there were over 550 scripted shows.

That should be less with the right to strike and a detraction.

Yeah, but like that's too much.

And so part of what makes a TV or film experience good

is how you get to it and how comfortable it feels to watch it and whether or not you feel overwhelmed by the amount of stuff you have to watch.

But sometimes the very

number of things I need to watch makes me less excited about everything I end up watching.

It's just too much.

So how do you find what you like?

I'm curious if this, you know, without being tracked and being told what you like and they serve up more of what you like, which is very common now with all of them, by the way.

You know, my daughter watches Frozen on repeat on, as I've talked about many times, on Disney Plus.

And we're getting, there's like 90 frozen,

like two minute ones, 10 minute ones, 12 minute ones.

And so,

and I appreciate it.

I'm like, oh, another,

Olaf is doing something in 13 minutes.

Perfect.

While I clean the dishes and you can watch this.

How do you find what you want to watch now?

What is your method without being forced down your gut?

Well, I work at Vulture, so I trust the fine folks there.

Some good folks that cover TV and movies there.

What do they say to watch?

I watch.

I rely a lot on newsletters and like online voices I trust.

If most of my favorite follows on Twitter are watching the same show and tweeting about it, I'm probably going to try to watch it.

So I kind of trust my colleagues and peers.

Okay, so people, not AI, not

people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What about you, Kara?

I think we're being manipulated in ways we don't even understand of what we should look at and what needs to be seen.

But I think it's only going to be increasingly more.

This AI will be telling us, go watch this, go do this.

He'll tell us to do a lot of things.

This is time to brush your teeth.

This is time to do that.

I just want less things to watch.

Yes.

What's your favorite thing right now?

I really have recently become obsessed with the real housewives of Potomac.

Oh,

I hadn't watched

Housewives since Sneeny in Atlanta.

Okay.

But a critical mass of my friends were like, you must watch Potomac.

I started, and Andy Cohen is an evil genius.

It's just, it's just, it's trash TV.

And the stakes are so low.

Wow.

I love it.

There was a three-episode plot arc about how one of the housewives was mad because the other housewife had Googled her.

And they got like three episodes out of that.

They just make something out of nothing in this hilarious way.

That's my current obsession.

It's not good TV, but I like it.

Yeah.

Okay.

What about you?

Well, I have seen some of the episodes of Succession because I'm doing this podcast.

I cannot reveal a thing, but it's terrific.

Okay, okay.

I'm ready for it.

Yeah, it's quite good.

The writers are pulling out all the stops.

Just so beautifully, it's so beautifully written.

And now they're really writing the hell out of it.

So I can't say a word about it, but the podcast is coming soon.

But I watch old things.

I'm now watching all of Madam Secretary.

I love Tay Aleone.

I love Tim Daly.

Turns out Tim Daly's a pivot fan.

I didn't know that, but I found it out.

I love that show, and I thought it's beautifully done.

I like it better than West Wing, which I also recently watched the entire all-a season.

So I go back and watch old seasons of things that I really like that are smart.

So, and I love her.

She looks fantastic.

And she's plucky.

She's plucky.

Between her and Jared Butler, I'm very happy with my watching the news.

Anyways, let's pivot to a listener question.

You got, you got, I can't believe I'm going to be your mailman.

You got mail.

This question comes from Twitter.

User BG Weigey.

Thank you, BG Ouija.

BG Weige.

This is for you, Sam.

For Sam, who I first heard as a political reporter on NPR, what do you think is the future of independent journalism?

A small question.

Is it substacks, podcasts, blogs?

Will those survive?

I don't think they call them blogs anymore, but will those survive and thrive or be replaced by the next new thing?

And I'm going to add, what is the next new thing, Sam?

Yeah, we don't know, but I will say, like,

I think independent journalism always finds a way to survive.

I think journalism is inherently a precarious endeavor and it usually doesn't make money.

Like, usually journalism as an enterprise does not make money on its own.

Yeah, it's not a good business.

And when you think of like the heyday of newspapers, the news division wasn't making the money.

The classified ads were making the money, right?

So there's always going to be a problem and an existential crisis over whether there's enough money to make the journalism because that's just the way this business model is set up.

It's not a money-making venture.

So that question, I never want to get too worried about it because that's just always the question

in terms of like, what's next?

Is it sub stacks or podcasts or blogs?

And it's kind of just like, we just find new ways to do the same thing.

You will either read a story.

or you will listen to a story.

And before podcasts, you listened to stories on the radio.

Now you do it on podcast, right?

Before you read a sub stack or a blog, you read a physical newspaper.

None of these new things are like reinventing the wheel.

You're either going to read it or listen to it or watch it.

It's a question of where you do that and what buttons you click to get there.

But there'll always be folks writing good shit and making good shit to listen to.

I don't know.

I'm less interested in whether I read the good writing on a blog or on a sub stack or on a New York Times website.

I'm more concerned about who are the people making this stuff and are they paid enough wherever they are?

And is it a diverse group of people making the stuff, right?

I think that I want whatever the new space is, the new blog, the new substack, whatever pay people well let them own their shit and make sure that it's not just white guys doing it and besides that i don't care where it is you know

because you you you also have to be as a reporter i think entrepreneurial in terms of picking different things and i i've done that and you're you're doing you know you're writing you do podcasts you're like you've done a lot of different things and you've shifted a lot you're very much like me shifted as times change and as interest changes um it doesn't matter what the medium is but you do have to as a journalist uh be very adaptable.

Yeah.

Well, and you have to be, this is a thing that I had to unlearn.

You know, when I started out working at public radio many years ago, they would tell you, like, you're not part of the story.

You don't matter.

Get out of the way.

But in this media landscape.

You need to be, and I hate to use the word, you have to kind of be your own brand and a thing that people will follow wherever you go, right?

I want to make journalism so that wherever I make it, people will come to hear it or see it or read it because I'm doing it there.

Right.

And I think that like the days of just like trusting the institution to always take care of the journalist, those days are over.

The industry is changing too quickly.

I literally had that conversation last night with a couple of people.

Yeah.

And like, God bless these institutions.

You know, NPR trained me well, but I have to be in charge of my career at no company, you know?

100%.

That's a very good piece of advice.

Thank you, BG Ouija.

All right.

If you've got a question for your own, you'd like it answered, send it our way.

Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question question for the show or call 855-51 pivot Sam one more quick break we'll be back for wins and sales

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Okay, Sam, let's let's hear a win and a fail besides Tom Cruise being cheated from his much-deserved Oscar.

But go ahead.

I think Rihanna fans won.

She performed at the Oscars Sunday night.

She performed that song Lift Me Up from the Black Panther Wakanda Forever soundtrack.

I hate that song.

Oh, and I didn't want to hear it live.

It sounds like a funeral dirge, which it kind of is.

But I was worried that she was going to butcher the live performance.

It wasn't bad.

And she's also said this week that there might be a new Rihanna album by the end of the year.

So I think if you're a Rihanna fan, you're feeling okay right now so she checked she tapped out now she's tapping back in heavy we need a new album it's been six or seven years since her last album and we miss her don't you think she should have that baby first i feel like i don't know maybe not okay

i make a dance hall album about the baby about the pregnancy whatever you got to do you know what i've never done more work since i had children but go ahead

So I think this will be a good year for Rihanna fans.

And I think that in spite of me hating that song, she didn't butcher it at the Oscars.

So I'm happy.

So she's my win right now.

Oh, well, did you like the um, did you like the Lady Gaga one adjacent?

Her, the genes,

she's a powerhouse.

I didn't love that song, but whatever she sings, I'll listen to.

She can sing, she can sing.

All right, fail, what's your fail?

These Silicon Valley folks getting on my nerves with this bank stuff.

Let Uncle Joe and Aunt Yellen figure it out.

Shut up.

I mean, we've talked about it already, but I do think that there's a class of man

on Twitter

further inspired by Elon Musk to just tweet bullshit and act like it's fact or like it's Bible.

So for me, the fail is all the men of Twitter.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Shut up.

I love it.

I would agree.

And Elon, too.

Stop tweeting, Elon.

Stop doing that.

I'd be like frequently wrong, but never in doubt.

And then they play victim.

Yeah.

And then they had the nerve to say that women are too emotional.

Have you seen these Twitter bros?

Yeah, I know.

Oh, my God.

I call them pants pissers, and they don't like that.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, you know, one or two of them had an issue with that back in the day, so I knew I knew it would hit land.

Those are very good.

I like those.

I like those.

Those are great.

I agree.

A win is the government handling this really well,

as we thought they would, because this is a serious issue.

They could not handle this badly.

And I keep saying about Joe Biden.

It's like, actually, he's doing fine.

He's not exciting at all, but he's doing fine.

Joe Biden.

Oh, yeah.

Joe Biden.

And I think a fail is probably these budget negotiations can stop taking us on the brink.

Well, we're going to have a shutdown, right?

I don't know.

I don't know.

I just stopped taking us to the brink.

This is ridiculous.

We didn't elect you to do this.

We didn't.

Do you think some people did?

The people who elected her.

The people who elected Marjorie Taylor Greene elected her to do this.

Well, that's one tiny little part of Georgia.

Like, they shouldn't determine these things and hold the rest of us hostage.

Most people just want these things to work, just like with this banking thing.

Everyone just wanted it to calm the fuck up.

It didn't work.

Yeah.

So anyway, that's what it is.

Sam, that is the show.

You can and should listen to Sam on his podcast, Intuit from Vulture and Stitcher's Vibe Check.

Sam, what else is coming up on your shows?

What's going on?

Yeah, so we just took Intuit from once a week to twice a week.

Now we're publishing on Tuesdays and Fridays.

If you check our feed right now, the last week was all devoted to the Oscars.

We talk about Oscars' historic problems with blockbusters, and then we have predictions from two Vulture film critics.

And then they were pretty spot on.

Everyone was like, it's going to be the year of everything.

And they were right.

This week, we're going deep on uh internet celebrity feuds.

Uh, it'll be in feeds Tuesday of this week.

What's the big one?

The Justin Bieber, Haley Bieber, Selena Gomez eyebrow feud.

It contains a multitude.

I'm gonna just listen to it.

I don't know about this, and then we'll also break down what's being called the biggest scandal in reality TV history.

This is the scandoval from the Vanderpump rules.

I usually don't follow these things, but there's something to be said about internet culture and TikTok and studying them.

So, that's what we do.

wow is there a scandal they're lying all the time they are they are people are shocked by those people are shocked and that's hard to do for real it's like thinking wrestling world wrestling is

okay all right whatever okay oh it's real it's not real oh my god

anyway please listen to all those things they're wonderful sam does wonderful job as you can see from here oh thank you so intuitive publishes tuesdays and fridays featuring the best and brightest from vulture and my other show vibe check comes out every wednesday and we're talking about all the things on that show as well.

Vibe.

All the vibe.

All the vibe.

All the vibe.

Well, get with the vibe.

I have no vibe, just so you know.

You have a lot of vibe, Kara.

I love your vibe.

I don't know.

It's not.

It's whatever.

It's just a grumpy old lady.

That's my vibe.

Me and Jamie Lee Curtis.

She's just more friendly.

Okay, we'll be back on Friday with more pivot.

And Scott will be back wherever he is.

I have no idea where he is.

Sam, please read us out.

Today's show was produced by Lara Naaman, Evan Ingle, and Taylor Griffin.

Ernie Indradat engineered this episode.

Thanks also to Drew Burroughs and Mia Silverio.

Also, subscribe to this show wherever you listen to podcasts.

Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media.

Kara, thank you for having me on.

Of course, anytime.

Yeah, this show is back on Friday for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

Till then, don't trust the Twitter dudes.

Don't trust them.

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This month on Explain It To Me, we're talking about all things wellness.

We spend nearly $2 trillion on things that are supposed to make us well: collagen smoothies, and cold plunges, Pilates classes, and fitness trackers.

But what does it actually mean to be well?

Why do we want that so badly?

And is all this money really making us healthier and happier?

That's this month on Explain It To Me, presented by Pureleaf.