Big banks' quarterly earnings and economic recovery, and a prediction on space SPACs

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Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

And I'm Scott Galloway.

Where are you now?

Are you still in Iceland?

I'm in Reykjavik.

Are you?

Is that nice?

You're wearing, I see a black turtleneck.

You're looking very Icelandic.

And now we dance.

I like the Northern European.

How's it going there?

Yeah.

You've sending pictures that are fascinating on the internets, I've noticed on the Trump.

I'm with family, so it's pretty awful.

And I look, Iceland makes me hate the outdoors less and less.

It's stunning here.

It's stunning.

It is beautiful.

And it's all right there for you.

Yeah.

500 people.

Let's talk about it.

Like, get back off the Iceland thing.

We're in America now, so we have a lot to talk about.

Sorry.

So

couple of things, coupled things.

I am not even going to go into all the Trump books.

I hope you're ignoring them.

There's like 53 Trump books and apparently he's into coup, but now he's saying he's not into coup

and all kinds of stuff.

He's like, if I were to do it, coup, he's uncoup.

He's uncoup.

Anyway, so there's a lot of Trump books, let me just say, and these people are all over the airwaves.

And one thing, it's one revelation.

It's like it's, it's, it's insurrection.

It's resistance porn.

I don't know what else to say.

That's what it is.

You know what I mean?

Like there's a lot of stuff.

And we'll see, you know, he's denying it, this and back and forth, but there's a lot of books out.

Michael Wolfe, the two reporters from the Washington Post, there's going to be a ton more coming.

One from the Wall Street Journal.

Anyway, it goes on and on and on.

There's a lot.

There's a lot going on here in the Trump world.

We can't quit him.

We just can't quit him.

It's like sports for me and Trump.

I love not thinking about either of those things.

You don't have to.

I felt like in order at some point, like at the age of 40, I'm like, to be a man, I don't have to think about sports all the time.

And I love not letting Orange Hitler live in my brain rent-free.

I literally enjoy just not talking about him and not thinking about him.

If you're thinking Orange Hitler, then don't

see what the what the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Sapphought thought about him.

In any case, the Fourth Reich, apparently.

So let's go into things that are meaningless, like Twitter shutting down Fleets on August 3rd.

It's the thing they launched.

I didn't know what it ever launched.

Did you use it?

I never used it.

It was like a version of Instagram, I guess.

I don't know.

Fleets.

No, I think it was Snap.

I think it was meant to be ephemeral.

It's interesting because all of these platforms develop sort of a brand halo.

And so, for example, Amazon couldn't figure out auctions because auctions was so inextricably linked to eBay's brand.

It's interesting that these guys, a lot of times their brand just doesn't support a certain consumer behavior.

And Twitter,

I think it was the right strategy.

If I'd been on...

the board of Twitter and the product development group and be like, yeah, let's try fleets.

I think it's good to try to.

I also think, and I'm critical of Twitter also.

It's a very kind thing for you to say.

I'm feeling Icelandic.

I feel that.

Because usually you'd be like, what if I took it?

Once again, dumb alley.

Dumb alley, they move down.

Scott oil on that pleat.

All right.

No, but I think what I was just going to say is I think one of the keys to being an innovator, and this is where small companies and what these guys are really good at, is they are willing to perform infanticide.

And I love it when I see a company after six or eight months, although Twitter did decide to kill TikTok called Vine.

But a lot of big companies enter into one of of the most dangerous things that happens to big companies, they don't have the same amount of capital.

They're not as agile.

They come up with a new cool product and then they all enter into consensual hallucination that it's working regardless of the metrics.

And they refuse to kill it.

And for every mouth you have to feed, it means you can't do something else.

So I actually like when companies say this isn't working and they kill it.

Interesting.

Speaking of moving into things, Netflix, which also announced it's hiring a podcast person, but they're mostly doing it for marketing of their shows.

So I don't think we're in trouble yet.

But they're expanding into gaming.

Bloomberg reports a company hired hired Mike Verdue, who I know a little bit, as the vice president of game development.

He was working over on content at

Facebook, which is interesting, augmented reality and virtual reality content.

A really interesting fella.

What do you think about this?

I mean, they've already done some gaming element things with, I think, Carmen Santiago, some other things.

Gaming.

This is big.

I mean, there's just no getting around it.

If you think about the most valuable companies in the world have essentially become the operating systems for our digital life, and they're all in a battle, a Game of Thrones, to see which operating system can command more attention of the most valuable consumers.

And the two operating systems and the first and third most valuable companies in the world are the operating systems for our mobile handsets.

But the operating system for the second most important device, the TV,

is becoming Netflix.

And so Netflix ability in marketing or product expansion, you either expand vertically, and that is the gap goes after metro sexuals, then it goes after hip fashion forward, urban teens with the gap, and then it goes after single mothers or people who want 80% of the gap for 50% of the price, but it's all designed and merchandised and supported casual apparel.

They go vertical just across different cohorts.

And then another means of product expansion is you go, you serve the same cohort with different products.

And that's what Microsoft has done, right?

Games.

productivity tools, but all sold into the same person.

And Netflix is taking advantage of the fact that the operating system for the television, it's just so interesting that no TV manufacturer has been able to elbow out these guys.

And they've given up the money.

They tried for a little bit there.

Samsung had its thing.

Remember they did?

They just were impossible to use.

I mean, this raises so many interesting issues.

What are they going to do around consoles?

What's going to happen when they violate Apple's terms of conditions in the App Store?

But Netflix,

when you think about the IP here, The Witcher, I mean, they have some incredible games, incredible content that are already games, and then they can start putting on your recommendation screen, which I think is one of the most powerful things.

I think the podcast thing was also important.

They're going to market their, they've already done things around the crown.

And I've listened to a couple of their podcasts.

I liked a couple of their shows, and I listened to the crown one or whatever.

There was a bunch of them.

They did a nice job.

I know they're marketing, but I want more content on those.

things I watch as their content.

It's really interesting.

I like that they're not like deciding to be Gimlet or Spotify.

They're just going to do stuff related to their products to help sell their products i kind of like it uh you know i what's interesting and i'd love your thought on this very quickly is that netflix is not in is not really expanding to news still they're still not doing news and live anything but they're they're um

i think they look at i i think that their their ability their ability is around storytelling and the ability to gather incredible talent and create these really compelling stories where you want to go to the second the third the fourth episode do you really want to binge news i mean you can yeah um but But eventually it'll happen.

Eventually, all of them, I think all of them, whether it's Apple or Hulu or Netflix, are eventually going to go to news and politics because it's kind of the final frontier.

It is.

What's interesting is that

it has to be a different twist.

It has to be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It'll have to be.

It'll be weekly.

It'll be more John Oliver-esque, you know, kind of entertainment news, if you will.

But watch it out.

CNN is launching their CNN Plus in January, which I'm excited about.

They are.

They are.

All right.

On to the big stories.

The big banks have reported their second quarterly earnings and results point to a strong economic recovery.

Both Citigroup and JP Morgan attribute their massive profits to consumer spending, which is surpassed, not a surprise, pre-pandemic levels.

JP Morgan CEO Jamie Dimon said consumers are raring to go.

His exact words on the earnings call were the house value is up, their stock value is up, their incomes are up, their savings are up, their confidence is up.

Deal-making fees have also increased, obviously.

At JP Morgan, Bloomberg reported that Morgan Stanley's stock jumped 35% this year.

Scott, Scott, tell me.

I'm not the finance person, but

what do you think?

It's great to be in banking.

I mean, M ⁇ A transaction fees are up.

Asset management fees are up because people's worth has gone up exponentially.

So they're trading more.

They can charge more.

I mean, it's just a great time to be an investment bank.

I thought the most significant thing that happened this week, and I was shocked that banks didn't or their stocks didn't react to it, was America supposedly, or the government is supposedly seriously considering a U.S.-backed digital currency.

And if a U.S.-backed digital currency came out, it would literally disrupt banking in terms of fees and transactions.

Because what banks have done a great job of is creating a lot of friction under the auspices of safety or covering their own ass so they can charge all kinds of userous fees to send money to London.

I mean, I just don't get why it's so expensive and so hard, whether it's a mortgage, whether it's transferring money, whether it's ATM, whether it's overdraft, you know, their ability to kind of get in the middle and slow things down under the auspices of regulatory arbitrage or negative arbitrage.

Anyways, I think a digital currency

is the biggest threat to banks.

But right now, it's great to be a banker.

I mean, Goldman and J.P.

Morgan both blew away their earnings.

Also, the housing market, red hot now.

Now it's calming down for August, but like I sold my house in 14 seconds that I couldn't sell in March.

I was trying to sell a house.

I used it for an office instead, but then it's not a big house, but I sold it in literally 14 seconds.

It was crazy.

And it was just like that.

I didn't, you know, it was fascinating because it was so slow, just only so much ago.

Wells Farm and Jake Morgan extended more mortgages this quarter compared to last.

You know, that's another thing.

And the story in the Times, which I think we look good at, is that everyone's moving back to San Francisco or the slash cities and things like that.

So it's kind of interesting too.

You know, we had predicted that everyone making this a big trend, that everyone's going to be living in Omaha because it's so much nicer here and we have a yard.

Did not, not, it's not necessarily.

It's a mixed bag, but it's certainly not not the kind of thing you said people would move back and that's a lot of the story in the times said exactly that I need to see people in the city a lot of the quotes were what you talked about with young people so I mean it it's obviously situational and I think San Francisco I always said San Francisco is like American healthcare and that is expensive but bad I think San Francisco is just not a great value proposition as a product anymore but show me something show me someone who's on Twitter talking about how they just couldn't stand San Francisco governance and lifestyle.

And I'll show you someone who is so full of shit who's sitting on top of a huge capital gain because of some shitty SPAC they managed to get out and has decided to peace out and not pay back into the system they benefited from.

Anyone on Twitter who complains about California government and as a venture capitalist and operator as they haven't moved to Michigan.

They haven't moved to places with better governance.

They've all moved to places they can register a capital gain at zero cost.

It's all such a head fake.

Granted, San Francisco has problems, but these problems have kind of been there for a while.

And this notion that all of a sudden,

this housing market is interesting.

It's red hot.

It's back in the Sundays.

I was sort of shocked by the quickness of the house sale.

And I think it's really

interesting to me.

It's interesting to like that these people bounce back this way, like they're spending again, people are feeling content.

At the same time, this Delta variant is all over the place.

The state of Tennessee has like decided it doesn't believe in science again.

And,

you know, we're back to to the scopes trial or whatever.

And

it's really interesting that certain jurisdictions are going to just boom, especially the ones that are vaccinated.

And we'll see if it creates across the country, but it's still fascinating what's happening in Terra.

I'm going to get shit for this, but isn't it just natural selection?

Isn't it just stupid people

prone to conspiracy theory are going to put themselves at greater risk?

Isn't there a correlation between Fox Viewers, conspiracy theory, low IQ, and these regions that have decided to totally

ignore science, ignore truth.

Why not make the economic argument to them?

It's crazy.

My mom is interesting.

I had a very, actually good discussion about my Fox Love and mom today where she started attacking Dr.

Fauci again because that's what they're doing on Fox.

And mask, this mask mandate.

I said, you know, like

they're also Fox is going against vaccinations.

She goes, well, that's not right.

And I said, you got to pick a friggin lane.

You can't not take a vaccination and also decide mass sucks.

And you can't then tell

your public health officials in your state that they can't say the truth, like which happened in Tennessee.

Again, the scopes trial once again, like, right, which took place in Tennessee.

But then she was like, you're right.

You have to pick a lane.

Like, I said, this is not about like, stop.

And it was interesting.

There is

very, there is a valid argument that people on the right have made

about the importance of taking what I'd call measured measured risk around opening sooner rather than 100%.

And that we on the left immediately have a knee-jerk reaction that any talk of opening is not progressive and not thoughtful.

No, as a matter of fact, and this was probably the most underreported news story this week, we have had a massive acceleration in opioid overdoses again.

And we had finally started to turn the corner.

We had finally started to see a reduction, and they were up to nine, they hit a new record last year, 93,000.

There are prices, 100%.

And there are deaths of despair

when you shut people in, when you make them isolate.

That is a real argument we need to have between the left and the right.

Agreed.

But the argument over creating pockets of poverty, not only economic poverty, but vaccine poverty, because they all talk each other into believing that

vaccines are better, it is really dangerous.

It is your right not to take a vaccine.

But guess what?

France isn't going to let you.

What was really interesting is Macron makes an announcement they have to have these vaccine hazards.

I forget what they call them.

Macron, you're handsome man.

And then a million people signed up the next day.

That's just all it took.

Like Americans just went to the middle of the day.

What did he say that again, Kara?

So he said they had to have the passports.

You have to prove if you want to go to their cafes and their other things, you have to have a vaccine passport.

And a million people signed up.

The numbers went up considerably the minute he said you have to.

Our friend Stephanie Rowe called me the other night and she's like, how can the government be giving all these money, all this money to people and not be asking them to get vaccinated i'm like i'm with you sister i don't understand why we don't have a vaccine pack i i can't for the life of

all these countries that took the wrong word you got to have another word besides passport i don't know you don't like passport no because i think it makes

no because

i don't travel that much like i think it's got to have another word got to have something a license whatever because we get licenses i don't let me ask you on to one last thing for this section um surge in deal fees by the way spax spax fax back everywhere it's just back everywhere uh the sec is investigating banks over conflicts of interest in the SPAC dealmaking process.

So anyway, nonetheless, SPACs

are backs.

Our backs.

Spax are backs.

Yeah, whatever.

What do you think about that?

All these people going public.

Well, look, we had a dearth of public companies.

The number of public companies has been reduced by two-thirds because of M ⁇ A and because private market investors decided they wanted to capture more of the gain.

So fewer and fewer companies were going public and because of monopoly and lack of competition.

So I think it's a good thing that they're accelerating and there's more public companies giving more people opportunities.

The reality is SPACs have underperformed over the medium and long term.

They overperformed last year, but a lot,

I think a lot of these, I mean, already we're already seeing a pullback about

half the SPACs.

Yeah, about half the SPAC.

And that's where they're getting in trouble is the disclosure.

It's basically a way of kind of skirting or short-circuiting the disclosures.

And the SEC is saying maybe that's a bad idea.

So I think there's going to be additional scrutiny on SPACs.

I think they're a good thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We'll be talking a lot about the SEC.

Perhaps a code.

I'm not going to say why.

Anyway, let's go on a quick break and come back to talk about the Senate Democrats $3.5 trillion budget and a listener mail question.

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off.

Okay, welcome back.

Senate Democrats came to an agreement on a $3.5 trillion budget deal that supports President Biden's economic agenda.

Obviously, it's the stuff that they pulled out of the infrastructure bill, some of it.

It is, it's a lot.

Like, I've decided, like, can you just do individual?

Even I was like, hey, maybe just a few bills rather than one, putting everything in the kitchen sink here.

It has social environmental programs, extended child tax credits, a carbon tariff, universal pre-K, expanded Medicare benefits.

The spending package also includes protecting the right to organize Act.

The PRO Act largely impacts who and who cannot be classified as gig workers, as those who do not receive employer benefits and labor protections.

The act also makes it easier to form a union and blocks employers from permanently replacing employees who participate in

strikes.

Centrist Senator Joe Manchin expressed concerns of the package impacts on inflation and the climate change provisions he believes would eliminate fossil fuels.

By the way, Europe's moving that direction.

They just were flooded this week and, of course, have passed all kinds of anti-fossil fuel bills.

The Democrats need every center on board since zero support from the GOP as expected.

I saw interviews with Lisa Murkowski and Mitt Romney, who are usually pretty reasonable, and they were like, no frigging way this is going through.

And I have to say, I was like, hey, guys,

this is making me cough a little bit.

What do you think?

I thought it was really interesting.

I'm really hopeful.

I hope that

it gets to 50.

I mean, I think Joe Manchin, Senator Manchin just loves being like that.

Yeah, he does.

The swing.

He's lost some weight.

I think he's got a new haircut, too.

But going.

Next thing he's probably going into.

I don't know.

hey richard branson got back safely it's just yeah knock on wood good for him

so what do you think well this is a lot of money a lot of money for stuff especially tech related stuff climate change stuff climate change stuff you know all kinds of things and stuff around the gateway i've come to believe that the only union that appears to be effective is is enough government spending that gives jobs and social safety net to our most vulnerable people such that they have some negotiating power.

And

what's interesting about this quote-unquote infrastructure bill is for the first time, it's changing the nomenclature of infrastructure.

And we've decided, and I think this has probably makes sense,

that infrastructure includes investments in humans, right?

That child care is part of infrastructure, or child tax credit is part of an infrastructure bill.

But this is, I mean, this is a pretty consequential bill.

I don't think there's any getting around it.

I think that it's really weird, sort of, in some ways we've gotten so conservative, but it's hard to argue that this isn't

a much bigger sort of government.

This is big government and it reaches back to

Katrina trying to automate.

That's not going to pass.

This ain't going to pass.

You don't think so.

No.

It'll be like the infrastructure.

Well, you did a party on TV, so you know.

Listen to me.

There was a big swingy hit, but no.

No.

I mean, even in good times when people...

Because I think even in good times when people had, if they had more people, you know, they had control of the Senate now in a more significant way.

It's a lot of money.

Is it a starting point?

Yes, of course.

Yes.

I just say it was interesting.

Biden was up on Capitol Hill.

You know, they, this, I think these ambitious climate plans are interesting, but they're not as ambitious as EU and China.

I mean, EU has been hit by these floods and they passed sort of really essentially anti-fossil fuel bills.

That's not going to happen in this country, not with coal and oil, not with Venner's Mansion, with coal and West Virginia.

So, you know, I think, and then the worries about inflation, different economists say different things.

Like you get a different inflation story.

Well, even, but it's at its highest point.

Do you want to talk

slip stuff in.

And I'm a big fan of this, but I don't know if it should be part of this bill.

Part of the bill is amnesty for

millions of dreamers, TBS, essential workers, farm workers.

And that's, does that belong in an infrastructure bill?

Well, I think they're trying to like shove everything through because they can't get it.

Yes, that's what I kept thinking.

I'm like, this is 16 bills, just so you know.

And they can't do those anymore.

They can't do those anymore, which is interesting.

Anyway, we'll see.

I think the climate change is the most interesting stuff here, and I think they'll be pulling it out.

But, you know, the fact that other countries have moved very significantly on this, and of course, this is a promise by Biden, it's going to be an interesting uphill battle at this point, given the numbers that

exist in terms of voting and things like that.

But I'll tell you, it's ambitious.

Like, as you said, the Biden administration wants to do everything.

So, and I think they know they have time is not on their side.

And

I think it'll be a tough row.

I would say it would be a tough row.

We'll see what's going on.

We're going going to see a lot of Senator Manchin on TV.

That's what we're going to see.

Senator Manchin.

Well, I'm the reluctant bride.

I think she kind of likes the attention.

No, no, no.

Stephanie's friends with Justice, the West Virginia governor.

That's her pal, who she yells at, and then he keeps coming back on her show.

Whatever that's about.

Anyway,

let's pivot to a listener question.

Roll tape.

You've got, you've got, I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman.

You've got mail.

Hi, Kara and Scott.

My name is Chris.

I'm a writer in the real estate and technology space, hailing from Michigan.

You've both made predictions around Apple getting into search, but you don't seem to acknowledge that they're already there via the Apple App Store.

You've both waxed poetic about Amazon being in the search game via their marketplace, so how is it that the same standard isn't applied to Apple?

To suggest that search only happens in broad terms ignores the power and potency of niche search.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the importance of niche search, how it can compete, and what, if any, verticals are primed for a breakout of niche search engines.

Love the show.

Keep up the good work.

Kara, you must acknowledge.

You must acknowledge what search is.

Chris.

Acknowledge the search.

Chris, I love the attitude.

I think you're obnoxious about this, but I think Chris.

Tell me he didn't record that 11 times.

I love Chris.

I decided I love Chris.

I like him.

He's like, he comes in, he's like chest out.

This is what he's doing.

He's chesting out.

He's chesting at us.

That's what he's doing.

But you're in Iceland now, so you're a little softer.

That's why I like Chris here.

So Apple getting into search.

Yes, of course they're in search.

Of course, we were mentioning Amazon because it's the most obvious and largest example of it is that you search Amazon.

So that's why we can't mention all of them.

We can't mention all of them, Chris, but we shall.

Apple, of course, the Apple's, the Apple App Store is a search thing.

You have to search it and find things.

Not quite the same thing, and it is a niche search.

Pinterest is a search service.

You know what I mean?

Like it's, you search a lot on Pinterest and looking for, you know, for example, Scott is always looking for smoother marble counters, for example.

He's always sort of looking for different things and turtlenecks, perhaps, next.

Soapstone, soapstone.

And so, I think there's lots of different things in search that are sort of

chipping away at the Google hegemony, but Google still is the most important search engine.

What other search areas do you think of?

Peloton's kind of search.

There was an interesting story about Peloton paying out more money to artists with their music stuff than Spotify, which I thought was fascinating.

I saw that.

There's a lot of interesting things.

What other niche searches do you see?

Oh, I don't know.

I spend an hour a day like

searching for stuff on

Netflix.

I mean, maybe that's just poor UI, but you're right.

The second largest search engine in the world isn't Bang.

It's Amazon.

So

look, here's the thing.

Search, there is no business in history that has over $100 billion.

and has one player with more than 50% share, much less search, which right now is a $153 billion market, has one player that controls 93%, and it's growing 24% a year.

So you're going to see verticals, you're going to see niches just for real estate, you're going to see search engines because I think a lot of the technology is being somewhat commodified.

Do you know there are three times as many people at Google working on selling keywords than there are actually working on the underlying technology of search?

That blew my mind.

Anyways,

I think search is going to be

this massive evolutionary explosion of species over the next five or 10 years.

So I want to be the first to say I am acknowledging Chris's point.

Chris, we acknowledge you.

We acknowledge you, good sir.

We seem to acknowledge you as opposed to us not seeming to.

All right.

So name your top search places.

I'm going to name mine first.

Twitter, 100%.

Amazon.

I've never searched Twitter.

I don't know how.

I search Twitter all the time for news.

I do it.

Yeah.

100% or people or different trends and stuff like that.

So I search Twitter a lot.

I search Amazon a lot.

And I search,

hmm, where else do I search?

It's not Google.

I'm trying to do not Google.

I mean, I search Google Maps, but that's Google.

Hmm.

I guess I'm just trying to think.

Where else do I search?

That's it.

That's it.

What do you about you?

Uporn.

Is that it?

Oh, Uporn.

Oh, Netflix.

Yeah, I search Netflix.

You're right.

Netflix.

Amazon, a lot of search on Amazon, but mostly I just type stuff into the

URL or whatever you call it, the address bar.

And now I've downloaded Neva.

It's interesting when you get different search results on a subscription search engine.

I'm kind of fascinated with it.

What it's such as explain, say, say what you do.

It just seems,

it's just interesting that you don't get, because it's not paid, ads aren't paid, you get more kind of wonky responses, which I like, and you don't get as many, what I'll call commercial responses that people are paying for.

And some of the commercial responses you like because you want to buy stuff.

Yeah.

But it's just weird.

It's a different,

it's a different animal.

It's like changing operating systems.

It took a little while for me to get used to.

But that's a really interesting question.

How do we just so people know Scott invests in Neva and I know she's

full disclosure?

Yeah.

Is it niche though or is it trying to be a bigger thing?

Subscription?

No, I think subscription search.

Well, I guess technically everything's a niche now compared to being is niche compared to

Google.

But yeah, it's interesting.

That's such an interesting question.

I wish I had a more thoughtful answer of what role.

I searched LinkedIn a decent amount.

Do you?

What are you doing?

Are you looking for a job?

No, Section 4, we've gotten from 40 to 80 people.

We're constantly, constantly trying to find people.

Oh, interesting.

And I think it's interesting.

And I love LinkedIn.

I think LinkedIn has kind of got the vibe of what's so the promise of social is on LinkedIn.

I think people are really civil to each other.

I think it's mostly because of identity and also everyone's thinking maybe I can get a job from that person at some point in my life.

Yes.

Yes.

Everyone's much nicer and much more supportive.

Like the other white meat,

the other social network.

That's my favorite tagline in history.

The pork, the other white meat.

From James Garner, who just had a triple bypass, and Sybil Shepherd, who was a vegan at the time.

She was a spokesperson for the American Beef Council.

I love that.

Catch that, Jack.

Sybil Shepard.

Where's she?

You know, I met her.

She was on.

Really?

She wasn't.

Tell me she's nice.

Tell me she's nice.

She's so saucy.

She's a saucy.

She's very nice, but saucy.

Like a lot.

There's a lot going on there.

Let me just say, she was on the L-word when I was visiting the Senate.

I know I met her.

Yeah, she was, she played a lesbian.

She was a mother of a lesbian.

I don't remember the plot.

That would make sense.

She played a mother.

She played a mother of a lesbian who then became a lesbian in the show.

So she was, she was doing a little lesbian action, as I recall.

I just don't even remember.

Nonetheless, she was lovely and saucy, is all I remember.

The one who was really saucy was Holland Taylor.

She's an actress.

If you saw her, you'd be like, oh, her.

She actually goes out with the woman.

Oh, I know her.

Doesn't she date like Tilda Swinton or something?

No, no.

What's her name?

I'm going to blank on this.

Yes, it's all the lesbians.

It's not Tilda Swinton.

By the way, there's a really great meme on the internet right now of Tilda Swinton.

Hey, Rachel Maddox.

You might just throw out lesbians left and right.

Just stuff.

Assuming they all date each other.

I'm going to hear about that.

You are.

That's okay.

You don't need to know all your lesbians.

I can make a list for you if you like.

If you want.

I would like that.

Would you like?

Who is your favorite among lesbians besides me?

You know what?

I am so not going to go there.

My limited capability capability to protect myself,

my limited good judgment says don't start listing your favorite lesbians.

Okay, we should have a search service for lesbians.

That's all I'm saying.

She goes out with Sarah Paulson.

Other than Lindsay Graham?

Holland Taylor goes out with Sarah Paulson.

Thank you.

I'm just giving you some lesbian information.

Sarah Paulson.

She's an actress.

She's on everything.

She's like, so she was, she's on the show.

Oh, she's great.

She's great.

She's in everything.

She was fantastic.

She's the one about,

oh, the everything.

American.

Vice president.

yes, she was she played Nicole very talented, she's wonderful, she's really great, yeah, she's perfect.

She was in Nurse Ratchet, that didn't do as well on Netflix, but nonetheless, I think she's wonderful.

I saw her

talent in mind

anyway.

We're gonna

we love your question, Chris.

Thank you, it's an excellent question.

Everybody acknowledge you, Chris, we acknowledge you,

and we love it anyway.

Scott, one more quick break, and we'll be back for predictions

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Okay, Scott, predictions.

Do you have one?

Mine's kind of lame.

I just, that I, that I predict

Olivia Rodrigo might help set off some people getting vaccinations.

She, you know, when France just demands it, she Olivia Rodrigo is the pop star, the 18-year-old pop star with the number one album in the country.

And she, she, she said, vaccines are good for you, which is, is the name of her hit song.

And,

you know,

I just like when they, I think they're going to try to, there's a lot of people at the White House thinking about how to get these groups of people to get vaccinated.

And I, you know, they're trying to roll it out and drool it out quickly because of this Delta variant.

But they, but it, but it, I thought it was a good, a smart idea to pull her in to reach the young and unvaccinated.

I think it was good.

So I predict there'll be more of that.

You'll see a lot more of that.

And it's not going to be like Kid Rock and the pillow guy telling you not to get a vaccine because Bill Gates is trying to kill you, whatever.

It was so nice to see her walking into the White House versus the pillow guy so anyway

versus like jethro tall and scott bayo i know like you know what i mean like i was like oh the the door the pillow guy went in the living rodrigo went in to do a message that's important so i predictably

the land of the people whose agent will not call them back um yeah i don't know how much those celebrities matter but i think it's great go ahead

uh so my prediction is a little overdone, but I'm going to make it anyways.

I think Virgin Galactic is going to be the poster child for the SPAC in the space bubble.

I think space exploration.

Poster child, good or bad?

Oh, bad.

Oh, okay.

I mean, do you realize, I mean, first off, there's just so much writing on the wall that this thing is not going to work.

First off, as a strategy, I just think space tourism makes no sense.

I think we put astronauts and equipment into rockets.

I don't think we put tourists into rockets.

But in addition, Jamath Palihapatiya, very smart guy, sold his entire stake in March.

And Richard Branson, by the way, has sold $800 million worth of stock in it to fund his other ventures.

So two people who I think are very smart and know the company very well have both said, yeah, great, we're out.

We're going to vote with our wallet and we're not voting for the company.

And two, something,

do you realize since they took that flight last Sunday, the stock has lost a third of its value.

And I think the reason why everyone's trying to figure out, well, is it because of the $500 million secondary?

And I think it's because of the following.

There was a clip of them once they were in space.

And I think what they've pulled off is remarkable.

The entire world saw this thing.

I mean, that's just PR you can't dream of.

Yeah, no.

Okay, but what does it mean when 7 billion people or call it two or 3 billion people are exposed to your product and know this product is out there?

This is what it looks like.

It costs a quarter of a million dollars.

And they've got a waiting list of 600 people.

I talked 1,400 people last night.

600 people is nothing.

So what they have here is the mother of all product market misfit.

Nobody wants this fucking thing.

No one wants, If 600 people want to.

If you're cheaper, you would.

If you dropped the price, you would, right?

Like it was $200.

The capsule holds four people.

How low can you get?

Nobody's telling you if it's that's true.

I get it.

They can't.

Who said that to us?

And their prediction is what it is.

Space is expensive.

Space is expensive.

There's like billions of particles in every square foot on Earth.

There's like one in space because space wants to destroy all life and all matter.

That's why I'm saying that

space wants to kill you.

So my prediction is within six months, you're going to see a pivot.

They're going to start talking about point-to-point supersonic travel or space cargo.

They do have a space cargo or space hauling division.

But if you look at the stock, if you look at the very smart people who have sold their shares, if you look at the product market fit, if you look at the awareness and the anemic sign-up they have, people saw Richard Branson in space floating for two minutes and think, yeah, that's not worth $25,000, much less a quarter of a million.

You know what I say?

This is critical space.

This is critical space theory.

Critical space theory.

It's a joke on the internet.

Critical space theory.

Critical space theory.

Sorry to make a joke on a ridiculous.

I've been doing it all week.

The lame race.

Yeah.

The Glaze race.

Yeah.

I think you're right.

I think the space tourism idea is correct.

I think this is a lot of money.

I think one of someone predicted this to us that it's a lot of money.

It's expensive.

Space wants to kill you.

And you're right.

I think this is a great prediction.

Why are you insulting your prediction?

No, I'm just, it'll be, it'll become a poster child for it was, it was one of of the first SPACs.

Chamath is kind of the king or the visionary around SPACs.

He was involved, SPACs, he was involved here.

But I just look at this thing and I'm like, product market fit doesn't make any sense.

Structurally doesn't make any sense.

Their strategy doesn't make any sense.

Right.

I just, I look at it and I go, okay, this thing is just, you know.

Well, let me ask you one question.

So I asked it about how much would it cost for you to go on Facebook?

You know, when we talked about that, like to be on their, whatever, their sub stack version, killer, whatever they're making.

How much money would you pay to go into space?

What's the most you would pay?

You know, to take a little trip around the light, fantastic.

I don't know.

It doesn't really appeal to me.

I'm, I, I get motion sickness.

I'm on planes way too much.

The only thing not wonderful about my life is I'm not at all.

It's not, I guess at some point, if it's totally bulletproof, seeing the, supposedly you have sort of a moment, a spiritual moment when you see Earth from the Carmen line, I would like to experience that.

I can get 80% 80% of that with edibles and leave my couch.

And photos.

Or, you know, I hate to say it, but like doesn't appeal to me.

Does it appeal to you, Carol?

No, at all.

I don't want to get in any spaceship ever, ever, ever.

I'm going to stick it out on this horrible little planet.

That's what I'm doing.

I'm staying on this ride.

I like it here.

Yeah.

I don't want to go to the Carmen line.

I want to go to St.

Barbara's.

I'll tell you what it shows out, what you're talking about.

It makes Elon Musk look smart because he has not dabbled in space tourism that much, except around the edges.

He's just sending up rockets and sending up patients.

He's hauling shit into space.

That's what he's doing.

And eventually he'll haul stuff down, minerals and things like that.

You know,

I think he's got the right take on this.

I think Jeff Bezos is with these like super cities in the sky.

I like it.

I like it, but you're like, no, like that kind of thing.

It's expensive.

Space wants to get it.

So, anyways, my production.

Bjork.

Bajork.

Bajork.

Bjork.

Bjork.

Did you watch the movie that's so funny with

about the Euro?

Oh, it's so funny with Eurovision.

We've watched

three times.

We can't watch it.

Oh, my God.

Watching that shit.

It's so good.

It's so good.

A very handsome man.

He's a very

handsome man.

He is a very handsome man.

He's charming.

Speaking of handsome men, who was that person you pretended was you with the poodle?

That was, what's his name?

Soccer player.

Oh, Zidane Zidane, or the world, the great soccer players.

He's trying to ride on his good, that's a good-looking version of you.

That's what that is.

With a polo.

A lot of people would say I'm a good-looking version of him.

No, not a lot of people.

Not a lot of people.

Zenedine Zidane.

Yeah, that was a beautiful football player in history.

For a minute, I was like, what is Scott?

Did he get work done?

When did he get a poodle?

He has a big dog.

I know.

Give me the Zidane look.

That's what I say to my dermatologist.

Give me the Zidane look.

You could get there.

Anyway, it was fascinating.

Okay.

Don't forget if there's a story in the news you're curious about and want to hear our opinion on, just like Chris, go to and acknowledge, we will acknowledge something you say to us.

Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show.

Scott, please read us out.

Today's show is produced by Caroline Chagren.

Ernie Andrew Tott engineered this episode.

Thanks also to Drew Burroughs.

And for a limited time, you have a chance to fill out our listener survey.

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We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech.

Number 21 for Juventus, a midfielder.

Number five for Real Madrid, one of the greatest sportsmen in history.

Not as sexy as the dog.

Not as sexy as the dog.

See you next week.

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