Russia crackdown on social media, Amazon buys MGM, and is 5G worth the hype?

Support for the show comes from Saks Fifth Avenue.

Sacks Fifth Avenue makes it easy to shop for your personal style.

Follow us here, and you can invest in some new arrivals that you'll want to wear again and again, like a relaxed product blazer and Gucci loafers, which can take you from work to the weekend.

Shopping from Saks feels totally customized, from the in-store stylist to a visit to Saks.com, where they can show you things that fit your style and taste.

They'll even let you know when arrivals from your favorite designers are in, or when that Brunello Cacchinelli sweater you've been eyeing is back in stock.

So, if you're like me and you need shopping to be personalized and easy, head to Saks Fifth Avenue for the Best Fall Arrivals and Style inspiration.

Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start?

Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to.

Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin, or what that clunking sound from your dryer is?

With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one.

You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app.

Download today.

Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

Do you expect me to talk, Mr.

Bond?

No, I expect superior absorption, not that single ply bullshit bounty.

That's the big story.

It is.

We'll be talking about that story.

That's Jeff Bezos is buying MGM, and that includes James Bond.

Can't talk about it now.

The actual answer is, I expect you to die, Mr.

Galloway.

I expect you to die.

I expect you to die.

And then it proceeds to tell you his whole plan to how to kill him.

And then James Bond gets out of it.

That's how it goes on the James Bond shows.

In any case, I love James Bond, and this is a really interesting moment.

So before that, there's a lot going on.

There's a lot going on.

Speaking of Amazon, the DC Attorney General is bringing another antitrust lawsuit against Amazon.

The complaint says Amazon is abusing its power by requiring third-party sellers to offer their products at the same price that they sell them elsewhere.

So that's an issue.

So you're in D.C.

What do you think?

You know, I use Amazon a lot.

I think it shows how much power Amazon has.

Amazon, of course, makes the argument that people can buy their stuff elsewhere if they don't like it.

You know what I mean?

That's their argument, as is a lot of people's arguments.

Same thing with Apple.

That was essentially saying if they don't like Apple, they can go over to Android or they can't.

You know, I think it's a tough one.

This is a little bit of probably PR on the DC Attorney General's.

part.

But at the same time, it's going to be a pileup of lawsuits in this area.

I think they're going to be subject to lots and lots and lots of these all over the place because, you know, ambitious attorney generals, it's a good look to be against Amazon.

And so that's, you know, with the power they have with the Washington Post here, with,

you know, over commerce, lots of people use Amazon here.

I'd be curious to know what the usage figures in Washington are, but they're probably pretty high

compared to the general public.

I don't know what they are.

But I'm sure lots of stuff will come out and it's a good look for the attorney general.

I think it's,

we'll see how far it goes because they can can make the argument, you can, there's a store over there, go and buy it there.

There's a giant, there's a, this, there's a that.

Your comments, though, are telling, and that is current antitrust law is based off of this kind of bork Chicago notion that as long as the consumer wins, and they always bring up consumer choice.

And Brandesian antitrust, which I think we need to go back to, talks about market power.

And if you want to talk about power, regardless of whether or not you have a choice, if one company has such dominance and such access to so much cheap capital that no consumer is really going to choose anything else, thereby cauterizing new business formation, putting good employers out of business, then that is reason for antitrust.

So just

a couple points here.

While everyone is talking about MGM because we're obsessed with James Bond, they missed bigger news this week about Amazon, which highlights just how powerful this company is and just why it needs to be broken up.

Do you realize Amazon's ad business, which no one ever talks about, their ad business we do we talked about it we're aware it's big other than us other than other than uh 008 and 009 here you're a 00 nothing

no i'm i'm the jewish nemesis by the way yeah fleming raging anti-semi gold singer blofeld jesus dude be a little bit more subtle yeah he would anyways anyways uh uh i'm gonna get on twitter for that okay so amazon's ad business which no one ever talks about yeah take the ad business of roku Pinterest snap and oh I don't know ad and Twitter just for fun Amazon's ad business is two and a half times bigger than all of those firms revenue combined and it's growing 70% it is it's becoming a real it's gonna

be I'm just sort of I'm just I'm overwhelmed I'm overwhelmed you're very clamped I'm overwhelmed well Well, double oh nothing.

It is going to be an interesting time.

I think bringing this stuff out, more information, just like the testimony of Tim Cook at the Epic Thing, it may have done him no favors to be so explicit about what was going on.

And so I think as more of these attorneys, attorney generals or attorneys general, I think it's attorneys general, start to get information, I think that'll be nothing but good.

This transparency of how these things work will be interesting for people.

And they don't want that stuff out at all.

Interestingly, a bill in Congress is aimed at beefing up resources for space travel may also include a $10 billion bailout for Jeff Bezos' space exploration company.

Blue Origin, pushed by Maria Cantwell, who's from Washington State.

His company recently lost out on the bid that SpaceX got, Elon Musk Company.

And so, you know, this looks like a gimme to one of the richest people.

It's getting a lot of attention from Bernie Sanders and everything else because poor Jeff Bezos needs the help for his space endeavors.

But, you know, it's just Washington as usual.

One party wants to advantage someone.

The other is trying to stop it.

I think they're sort of being dragged right into Washington in ways that's important for their businesses.

At the same time, it's going to attract more and more scrutiny.

Yeah, but I do think it's not business as usual.

I think the trend is business as usual.

But at some point, when the most profitable, largest market cap companies in the world continue this regulatory arbitrage of wanting to overrun government and look for additional subsidies.

I mean, is Amazon 20 billion in profits the last 10 years, average tax rate of 4.5%?

I mean, it's just at some point,

there's got to be pushback.

Now, I don't know enough about the situation.

I'm curious if you think this is exceptional or just what every other company does looking for.

I think space exploration using the cheap capital of Amazon shareholders is actually beneficial for American taxpayers.

But what do you think about this specific situation?

Well, I think it's interesting because they're also involved in the pushback, which they sort of gotten ahead with Microsoft and the Jedi contract, which looks like it's going to have to be redone, I guess, or if at all.

And so they managed to put

a wrench in that.

And so it'll be really interesting as they engage, all these companies engage with the federal government on all kinds of contracts, right?

And they're critically important, especially Amazon with Amazon Web Services, all kinds of facial.

Well, they suspended some of their facial recognition stuff.

But as they move into especially these big cost item things where they're working essentially a vendor for the federal government,

I think they're going to,

I think it'll be, it's sort of like on one hand, they have all this influence.

On the other hand, this is perfect stuff for Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren to point at.

You know, they're exposing themselves more, I think, is what they're doing.

And whether they can argue all you want, but once they get into the Attorneys General thing and into Congress, they get exposed more.

And eventually there will be legislation.

Eventually, I think they're headed for legislation, and it's just going to be a dance of how much they can avoid and how bad it has to be and stuff like that.

So it's interesting.

It's an interesting.

But speaking of it, let's move on to the big story because

other countries are even more so, you know, all across the world dealing with these tech companies in ways that aren't possible in this country for lots of reasons.

Russia is cracking down on big tech platforms in an effort to control free speech.

This week, Russian regulator, and I'm going to pronounce this Roskomnaz

Roskomnadzor, told Google, Roskomna.

Okay, told

Devushka, told Google to block thousands of unspecified pieces of illegal content that would slow access to the company's services.

The next day, the Russian court fined Google $81,000 for not taking down another piece of content.

That was one thousand.

Look at over in Florida.

I was going to say Russia and Florida.

Yeah, right, exactly.

Come on.

Russia orders Facebook and Twitter to store all of its data on Russian users within the country by July or face penalties.

These moves are part of a wave of recent action by the Russian government to get a handle on controlling speech, obviously.

They're probably worried about Navalny and all the activity there, et cetera, et cetera.

Back in March, the government made it harder for people to see and send posts on Twitter after the company did not take down content the government considered illegal.

So, and this isn't just happening in Russia.

It's, you know, India, many countries are trying to sort of get their handle around these tech companies.

The old move was shutting them down, essentially.

That's not really quite working because people use them or find workarounds, but it's a really interesting trend that these, and in the case of Russia and India, they don't have a First Amendment.

So, you know,

they can do whatever they they want in these ways.

And of course, these have always been top-down countries.

So I don't know.

What do you think?

They're going to see a lot of this pushback across the world in Russia, not just from China, but Russia, India, other countries.

It's good for Google

because Google will get to wrap themselves in this sort of freedom blanket and obfuscate the fact that they, in fact, should be moderating some of the more dangerous incendiary divisive content, which they amplify.

And instead, this will be a big distraction.

And a bunch of Republicans will use this as a means of saying free speech, and it'll end up being a real advantage for Google.

I think from Russia's perspective,

I mean, they want to control the media, they want to control speech, and Google gets in the way of that.

I think the ideal scenario for the Russians would be if they do what Apple did, and that is, quite frankly, just cave to the government and do what they want.

Because if they outright ban Google, I think a lot of the didgerati or the, I don't know, the tech set or the affluent set in Russia.

It's a big set.

It's a big industry.

Well, they would just use, I think they would just use VPNs and figure out another way to access Google.

So I don't, this, where I come from, this is the following.

Google really, the revenue they get from Russia just isn't that big a deal.

This is an opportunity for them to talk about how they are a warrior for free speech and wallpaper over the notion that YouTube continues to radicalize young men by promoting content that is dangerous and isn't getting its natural oxygen of discourse.

It's being promoted by these algorithms.

So unfortunately, I think like everything else, I think this will probably end up being good for Google.

Because next to Putin, everybody looks good, right?

That's right.

They can make strident speeches about how they're refusing to, you know, that the Russian,

they'll wrap themselves in a flag of First Amendment and America, and it'll all be giant distraction from the fact that there's some nuance here.

And then a bunch of Republican governors will line up behind it.

I don't know.

Except the Republicans are the ones passing these laws like in Florida, these social media laws like in Florida, where they're doing fines, very similar, not unsimilar fines of if you continue to do this, if you don't put people on there.

I mean, they are, it's sort of different, but they're trying to control the speech of these companies and who they can kick off and who they can't.

You're referring to DeSantis signed a law saying that the platforms couldn't kick people off.

And the reality is, I just call that his first trip to Iowa.

He got angry that Liz Cheney was in the news too much.

And so he decided, how can we get attention?

I know, let's sign meaningless legislation that's going to have no impact.

I don't even think it's, I don't think it's legal what he signed to just try and, so I can get more camera.

He might as well just have gone to Des Moines and said, started, started talking about big tech.

That was just like such a ridiculous and effective political move.

But anyways, I think this is, I think this issue in, I think the bigger issue, again, I think the media, I'm going to go out on a limb here, gets us wrong.

I think the state-sponsored hijacking that looks like it was KGB-inspired of a journalist where a commercial flight

was in mid-air, escorted down under the falsehood that there was

explosives on board.

And then four guys who were clearly KGB agents escorted this journalist off the plane and he was detained.

That's the kind of shit, that's literally a modern-day Archduke Francis Ferdinand getting shot in the head.

That's the kind of shit that starts wars.

Bond movie, really.

Well, and now America, and now

Western companies are saying we're not going to fly over Belarus in airspace.

I mean, that was, in my opinion, that was the real story of the week.

Not Russia asking Google to do shit.

I think we kind of missed the bigger picture.

We missed the bigger picture.

We missed the bigger picture.

And that's just not the tea speaking.

It's not the biggest.

It's not a big deal because this is a country.

You're right.

It's not a big business for Google.

Russia is a big business.

I think Russia has more to lose here in that regard.

But it's not just Russia.

It's India.

Look, they're doing stuff in New Zealand, Australia.

Like, this is Canada.

And then eventually.

New Zealand, really?

Yeah, they're all like talking about about various and sundry things about it.

You know, in the in the democracies, it's like hate speech needs to be controlled.

In Russia, it's don't talk Navalny.

Like, yes, that's right.

So, it's speech needs to be controlled.

Speech needs to be controlled, is really the bottom line.

Although it's different speech, and I think you and I would probably go, yeah, hate speech needs to be controlled.

No, let Navalny speak.

You know, I mean, that's the problem here.

That's the nuance that no one wants to talk about.

Yeah, exactly.

And so, I think, you know, look, Putin's going to do whatever he wants in Russia.

I think he's probably got a real problem with Navalny and about the attention that he gets and a creation of that kind of martyr in that country.

You're well known for martyrs.

That's a problem for him.

And the more he tries to press down on speech, you don't even have to have the internet.

If you remember David Remnick's book many years ago about Russia, same thing.

They were using

newspapers and letters and books.

And you have Alexander Solzhenitsyn.

And it just was, this is something that's been an ongoing war in

Russia to keep information out of the hands of people, and then having people

get through anyway.

Like it doesn't really, they get through in some fashion.

And so I think what's it's going to be very difficult for Russia to control a Google.

And Google doesn't really have to do anything because it's not that big a deal to them.

And you're right, they'll get a benefit of it.

But I think in some of these other countries, in India,

in New Zealand, in Canada, and then eventually here, they have a much more significant problem of how they manage their platform.

I think that's really what that's all about.

We got to take a quick break here.

I'm just for the first time looked at the video.

Are you wearing a gold chain?

Yes, I am.

What the fuck is going on here?

No, my daughter put them on.

Are you doing some sort of crazy sex games where you pretend to be a rap star?

What is going on there?

These are those beads, like New Orleans beads.

Yeah, they're Mardi Guard beads.

And these are

my...

the golden child's favorite jewelry to put on people's necks.

So I forgot I had them on right now.

I'm okay with that.

I didn't know what was going on there.

You know, though, my son, Louis, wears a gold chain.

Like, he thinks he's very Italian.

He goes, right, we have Italian heritage.

Right for the gold chain.

He wears it all the time.

What do you know?

He's not getting a lot of swipes on Tinder.

That's a shocker.

He's doing good.

Send him my way.

Send him my way.

My little butcher.

I want to be His Cerno de Bergerak.

He's doing just fine.

He's so cute.

He was singing in the shower this morning.

Nobody, he didn't realize we heard him as we were sitting on the back deck.

It was very nice.

That's a little awkward.

I know, it was sweet.

We didn't talk about it.

Talking adorable.

Back to Navalny.

And Navalny.

Anyway, so it's a bigger issue in very, they're facing, you know, here it is.

The tech is so important to everybody, and everyone's reacting in a different way.

And so I think this is not as big a deal as elsewhere.

That's what I would say, including here in this country.

All right, Scott, time for a quick break.

We're going to leave international affairs and go to the real stuff.

You know, Putin's a Bond fan.

Do you know what his favorite pasta is?

What?

I'll have the mini penny.

Oh, my God.

Get it?

Money penny, mini penny.

Get it.

Get it?

That's good bond humor.

It's not good bond humor.

It's terrible bond humor.

We'll be right back to talk about Amazon buying MGM Studios, then we'll answer a listener mail.

Hello, Daisy, speaking.

Hello, Daisy.

This is Phoebe Judge from the IRS.

Oh, bless.

That does sound serious.

I wouldn't want to end up in any sort of trouble.

This September on Criminal, we've been thinking a lot about scams.

Over the next couple of weeks, we're releasing episodes about a surprising way to stop scammers.

The people you didn't know were on the other end of the line.

And we have a special bonus episode on Criminal Plus with tips to protect yourself.

Listen to Criminal wherever you get your podcasts and sign up for Criminal Plus at thisiscriminal.com slash plus.

Support for Pivot comes from LinkedIn.

From talking about sports, discussing the latest movies, everyone is looking for a real connection to the people around them.

But it's not just person to person, it's the same connection that's needed in business.

And it can be the hardest part about B2B marketing, finding the right people, making the right connections.

But instead of spending hours and hours scavenging social media feeds, you can just tap LinkedIn ads to reach the right professionals.

According to LinkedIn, they have grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, making it stand apart from other ad buys.

You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority skills, and company revenue, giving you all the professionals you need to reach in one place.

So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience and start targeting the right professionals only on LinkedIn ads.

LinkedIn will even give you a hundred dollar credit on your next campaign so you can try it for yourself.

Just go to linkedin.com/slash pivot pod.

That's linkedin.com/slash pivot pod.

Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads.

Okay, Scott, we're back.

You can make all the bond jokes you want.

It's not just bonds, It's rocky.

It's other things.

It's not just.

Are you sincere saying that?

Because I heard Putin also gets pussy galore.

Oh.

You said any bond joke.

No.

You said any bond jokes.

You gave me license.

I didn't want to go there.

You can have a listener.

I didn't want to go there.

You and your two-pack were impressions.

Anna Top remember Anna Anna Top?

Anna Top?

Anna Top?

Anna Top?

Do you remember that one?

It was Jane Seymour.

Bond girl.

She was.

She was,

oh, what was her name?

Sandy Newton, most beautiful woman in the world.

Bond girl.

Anyway, Anatop was my favorite.

That was my favorite.

On a top.

She was the one who

strangled people with her legs.

You don't remember that one?

Anyway, Amazon is buying MGM Studios.

I think that was my first wife.

$8.5 billion.

Sorry.

$8.45 billion.

I'll be here all week.

Try the veal.

All right.

Try the veal.

I'm going to shake you, not stir you.

Okay.

Amazon is buying MGM.

We're done with the Bond jokes.

MGM Studios for $8.45 billion.

This is Amazon's second biggest acquisition since it bought Whole Foods in 2017 for a lot more, $13.4 billion.

The Once Hollywood Golden Studio has been shopped around for the past few months and has valued it far less than its competitors than Apple, Apple.

I think a lot of people are looking at it.

But among the many titles, it's home to James Bond.

It has Rocky.

It's got a whole bunch of stuff.

And although Amazon will only own 50% of the IP of that one, I think.

So what do you think?

Is it too much?

They paid a lot.

People think they paid a lot.

They paid a lot.

Well, I just think this is evidence that, you know, when you have a 26-year-old retailer buying a 100-year-old storied media and content company so they can sell more paper towels, I just think it reflects that we're in a wonderful age.

We live in a wonderful age.

So it's for the news, it's for the paper towels.

This goes back to what you're saying.

So a lot of content companies were looking at it who are in the content business, and no one could justify paying more.

This company was purchased by a company I've done some work with, Anchorage Capital, for about $5.5 billion 10 years ago.

It was their longest investment.

And they overpaid then, and nobody could get near the number that Amazon can pay because if it just pulses a little bit of sugar for Prime Video, which is now technically 200 million members bigger than Netflix, it's worth it to them.

And it brings up the notion of how Amazon has become too powerful because they can come in and make irrational purchases that don't make any sense.

There's a soft bank going on here.

And everybody else that got out their pencil said, quite frankly, this thing's probably not worth $6 billion.

I mean, it's got some assets.

But I was thinking, okay, they could do some really cool stuff.

You could have a Bond film for Prime Member seven days before it comes out in the theaters, right?

I would be thrilled.

Yeah.

But I don't think they're going to be able to do that because it's a joint venture with the heirs to the Broccoli Fortune or the Broccoli IP.

And I'm not sure they would allow that.

So here's what this reflects.

And that is when Anchorage first bought this, I think this is what.

So you've heard of the greater fool theory.

Yeah.

And that is you pay a stupid price, but someone else, even dumber, will come along and buy it for a higher price.

I think this is an individual, I think this was an ego-driven purchase.

I think when non-Hollywood people buy Hollywood assets, they usually buy them for the wrong reasons.

Specifically, they like the idea of going to the Academy Awards.

But there's even an individual who wants to go to the Academy Awards even more.

This was the kind of one midlife crisis passing off the baton to another midlife crisis.

So there's a greater fool theory.

This is the smaller penis theory, where essentially one midlife crisis guy sold to a guy in the midst of an even bigger midlife crisis.

This makes no sense economically.

With $9 billion, the woman who runs Amazon content could have produced a ton of amazing content.

With this money.

Absolutely.

This is a lot of money.

But here's the thing.

Amazon can make irrational purchases and put their elbows out and bump every player out of the way.

You know, it would have been a great owner for this asset.

Disney would have been a great asset.

Yeah, wouldn't it be?

Would have been a great owner.

They could have had a bond land.

They could have done a lot of great things with the franchise.

What they have done with the Star Wars franchise, in terms of maintaining the integrity and then extending it into cartoons and adjacent programs,

they've done an amazing, they would have been a great steward of this.

But Amazon, they also have Legally Bond.

They've got Rocky and Creed, et cetera, et cetera.

A handmaid's tale, Fargo, Vikings.

There's a lot going on here.

But you're right.

It's kind of a crazy amount of money.

But it does, look at all the attention it's gotten already.

It's got pictures of him in the MGM logo of Bezos.

He looks like a bond villain in a bond outfit.

You know, the whole thing.

And

I don't think it costs him anything.

It's not that.

Well, that's it.

But that's the point.

It's a dilution of a half a percent.

Right.

If Jeff likes it, if the person at

Amazon Prime Video who wants to please Jeff says, yeah, we can do some great things with these assets, they take a half a percent dilution.

This means absolutely nothing to them.

But every other media company looking to bulk up to fight back against Netflix and Amazon just can't even get close to it.

And it's 100% for Prime.

That's it.

That's it.

It's for Prime.

That's the way it goes.

And that's all it is.

It also is home to Thelma and Louise.

There's all kinds of stuff here.

Hey, but what do you do?

What are we going to have with Thelma and Louise from the Dead?

I mean, I do that.

I get it.

I don't think that's what it's about.

You know, the fact that, you know, Louis B.

Maire used to say,

I read lots of books about him and sort of the glory days of MGM.

That's where Judy Garland, Wizard of Oz, Singing in the Rain, Gone with the Wind, et cetera, et cetera.

And they're not owned by that.

Warner actually owns those, which is interesting.

But he used used to say there's more star than the heavens, if you remember.

Sort of the creepy stylings of Louis B.

Mer, which have become looked like he's a pretty malevolent player in that time period.

But it does.

It gives them nothing.

And what's happening is like there's a lot of growth with Disney Plus.

There's a lot of growth with HBO Max and Paramount Plus.

You know, you see these ads sort of showing off all their stars, essentially.

Again, just the way MGM used to.

If you remember those pictures of all the stars of MGM, if you go back and see, you know, they'd sit them all down every every year and you'd see them.

And it was really breathtaking, actually, when you'd see them.

But what's important here is it just sells more toilet paper.

Like you said, it's just, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter.

And it will help

Amazon.

It doesn't matter.

I think it was a bad move.

You do.

Huh?

I think they're like Sony.

Actually, Sony did well with its purchase.

Some companies, when they come in to buy Hollywood, end up crying at the end.

Sony's actually done okay.

Comcast has done okay.

Which group are they in?

Are the ones that sort of run away with their tail between their legs like ATT?

No, I mean they're in this they're in this business.

So it makes sense from a strategic fit standpoint.

I'm just looking at valuation.

If you look at the successful acquisitions and Disney's made the best, they've effectively not only bought banks, so let's assume they have a good bank here that they can utilize.

The question is, would it have been easier or less expensive to rent that bank as opposed to own it?

And because

they could still run Rocky.

They could still run Thelma Louise.

The key is the reason why Disney's made the best acquisitions and content is they've purchased these franchises that are incredibly extendable.

And that is Marvel,

Marvel, Pixar, Toy Story 3, and Star Wars is the gift that keeps on giving with Ashoka getting her own series and the Mandalorian.

Who would have thought The Mandalorian was going to get its own

series and content stars?

Whereas if you look at this, the only asset,

really the only franchise asset here, you could argue Rocky.

We'll see how long that gets played out.

The handmaid's tale, I mean,

there's only so many evil things we can do to the Gilmore girl.

I mean, that shit's running out of steam.

And so what you had here, the franchise asset,

the franchise asset

was the Bond franchise.

And unfortunately,

they got descendants.

And the thing about descendants of really talented people is they're under the impression they inherited that talent.

And they're usually difficult to deal with.

And the idea, wonder what they're going to be able to do because they're going to want Bond to be in theaters.

The gangster move here would be to say the new Bond film,

not even do what Wonder Woman did and go on the same day, say it's seven days early.

It's seven days earlier than in the film.

That'll drive them crazy.

I don't think the broccoli will agree to that.

No time to double

had to be delayed.

It's the 25th Bond film.

What a long time.

It's sort of like Saturday Night Live.

It's a really long time.

That's my point.

And you know what the downside is?

October 8th in theaters.

Just say that.

The downside is not that they overpaid, because quite frankly, it's literally the sweat off of Bezos' back.

The thing that wasn't worth it here is that it's another point of light.

It's exhibit 34B and the antitrust trial against Amazon.

And it wasn't worth it.

It wasn't worth it.

So look, I think Jennifer Sulke, with $9 billion, could have created some amazing content, maybe even in my view.

more enduring content than what they're going to get with the MGM Library.

She could have, without raising any antitrust flags, built some amazing franchises.

Yep.

I just don't think, I don't think this was a shareholder-driven acquisition when they looked on a risk-adjusted state.

Well, do they ever think of shareholders?

I think they do.

I think it does.

I don't think he thinks, you know,

they have long-suffering.

And as I noted last week in the Times,

investors don't mind this kind of stuff.

They don't think it's worthless.

Well, it feels bold.

It's bold.

That's right.

If you're AT ⁇ T and you do this, you're like, what an idiot.

If you're Bezos, it's like, like, brilliant, Mr.

Bond, kind of thing.

And so, you know, Whole Foods is their biggest purchase, obviously.

They bought Zappos in 2009 for $1.2 billion.

Ring for $1.2 billion.

I think it's just the beginning of tech companies.

I actually kind of predicted that I was buying up these things.

They're going to buy everyone.

I did an interview that just published today with Jake Tapper, and I'm like, they're going to own you someday, Jake Tapper, or your version of you someday.

You have Jake Tapper?

What?

Yeah, Jake Tapper.

What's he like?

I like him.

He's lovely.

He has a book.

I'll send it to you.

It's a wonderful.

He's actually a very good fiction writer.

He writes thrillers.

I'll send it to you.

I'll send it to you.

There's some, you know,

everyone talks about income inequality.

I want to talk about talent inequality.

That's just not fair.

That's just not fair that a guy like that should be a fiction writer.

Yeah.

Well, he's really quite good.

He's not just, he's not just a fiction.

He's quite good.

He's like the nicest guy.

Is he nice?

Yes, he's very nice.

You should listen to it.

He said a lot.

He said a lot.

He said a lot.

So what's interesting about that, though, is I was like, they're going to own you someday.

It's not going to be.

They're going to just sit and wait and bleed out even Disney, even Comcast.

You know what I mean?

And just wait and wait and wait.

If they can do this without even a problem, without, you know, they have, let's be clear, they're worth, what is it, $1.64 trillion and they have $71 billion of cash in cash.

This is nothing.

This is a nothing burger for them.

And they could go.

I don't know, Kara.

David Zazloff's coming for them.

Yeah, right.

Exactly.

Come on.

They can just bleed that.

By the way, I don't know that guy at all.

I have no reason to think he's not a talented executive.

Yeah, he's a very very talented executive.

I'm not saying he's not.

I just don't think he knows digital as well as he needs to.

I don't think he can learn it.

You and I are in violent agreement.

This company,

it's shitty businesses, not a shitty business.

It's smaller businesses that no one talks about.

Are two and a half times the size of other competitors and growing 70%.

Their ad business is growing 70% a year.

Facebook isn't growing 70% a year.

Google isn't growing 70% a year.

I mean,

it's just, it is staggering what this company is able to accomplish.

I don't think there's ever been a company that is performing on as many thousands of cylinders at this moment, at this, you know, in these areas

as Amazon.

I mean, it's just, you look at all these different businesses and there's, there's quarter of a trillion or half a trillion dollar businesses stuck within the business.

The ad business is probably, if the ad business was spun, they would say, oh, there's a third.

It's no longer a duopoly, Google and Facebook.

There's a third and it's Amazon.

And the third is growing faster than numbers one and two.

Yeah, yeah.

And what kind of market cap would that get?

What kind of market cap would AWS get?

Only

AWS.

AWS, yeah.

Yeah.

It's just

anyway.

I think it's a good word.

I'm sorry.

I think it's fine with them.

They own, also, just so you know, the movies, not just Bond, we made a lot of Bond jokes, but they own Rocky, RoboCop, The Pink Panther, Silence of the Lambs, Legally Blonde, Moonstruck, Basic Intrigues, Thomas Crown Affair, Tomb Raider, and also,

you know, lots of other things.

And one of the things, this is a quote from Rich Greenfield, who you and I have talked about,

which is a, he runs a media research firm, very well known.

MGM didn't have the resources to build and create off the catalog.

Amazon does, and the opportunity to exploit MGM catalog is incredible.

They also have some movies coming up, like Respect, Aretha Franklin Biopic, starring Jennifer Hudson, Ridley Scott's House of Gucci, starring Lady Gaga and Adam Driver, Paul Thomas Anderson's latest project, which stars Bradley Cooper, first film since The Star Is Born.

It's not like they're buying this sad little

studio sitting out in

the desert kind of thing.

I think it's, I think the issue is that they can do this, and it, even if it's a disaster, it's not a disaster for them.

Look,

everything you just mentioned is amazing, and it's worth maybe one or two billion dollars.

Yeah, and it's not worth raising any trust in it.

Rich people don't care.

Like, they, okay, what is that?

Is that croissant five dollars more?

That's fine, whatever.

I want to eat it right now.

Um, but it has also been spending a lot of money.

It's spent $125 million for Coming to America, $80 million for Burat's subsequent movie film, and $200 million for Tomorrow War, a Chris Pratt adventure that's arriving in July.

I think they're just going to just,

it doesn't matter.

They want to win here, and it's good for their other businesses.

I don't know.

I think it's perfectly fine.

Well, you know, it's big, old, and rocky.

What?

Sylvester Stallone.

What does Sylvester Stallone have to say about this?

I think their issue is antitrust red flags.

I already can buy it.

That's right.

I don't think it's worth it.

I don't think it was.

Anyways.

Yeah.

There's other studios available, possibly.

Someone thinks Sony is.

There's a whole bunch.

These are all going to be sold.

All going to be sold.

Yeah, they're all, it's it's really interesting, isn't it?

All these storied studios.

They're all becoming like a rounding error.

Or they're just going to wait and bleed them out and then buy them.

That's what's going to happen.

I think that's right.

All right, Scott, let's move on to listener mail, roll tape.

You've got, you've got, I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman.

You've got mail.

Hi, Kara and Scott.

It's Matt from California.

Is 5G all hype?

It's barely any faster.

And the people who promote it say things like, it'll be even more transformative than 4G, which is not how how I would describe the switch to 4G.

Oh, that's a good point.

I'm not like blown away by 4G either.

You know, I think, you know, look, this is what ATT, the reason they're saying they're getting out of their Warner business, is they want to put everything into

5G.

I think it is a big business.

I think they feel that the internet gap is going to get closed in the United States because of it and that we're going to see

much, all kinds of things because of it.

And I get your point about 4G, but I think this is a big difference.

Scott?

Yeah, look, my sense is I don't know the technology, but I think it's an incredible brand.

I think 5G right now is one of the strongest brands in the world and that everybody hears it and immediately associates very positive things with it.

And the majority of that brand equity is going to be in the U.S.

is going to be captured by two firms, AT ⁇ T and Verizon.

And their boards recognize that.

They have still figured out a way to...

you know, put out their elbows.

I don't know if it's regulatory protection, or I don't know if it's stealing the ground, capex, but so far there aren't, it doesn't appear to be that there's these immediate existential threats to the telco and broadband and cable businesses or the data businesses.

And 5G, I think it sounds exciting.

I think anything, I mean, bandwidth is the new oxygen, right?

And there's studies showing that a nation's bandwidth is directly proportional to its economic growth.

So when I think about productivity, When I think about my life and not only that, the productivity that's resulted in more income and more time with family,

It's a function of bandwidth.

Yeah, it could be electricity.

You don't think about your, in this country, at least, in other countries, you certainly do.

But, you know, spotty service, we still deal with it, and you're not going to.

It's just not going to happen.

And more connected devices, especially self-driving cars and other things, you know, and including household devices.

There's still going to be so many devices jacked into the matrix that it's critically important.

And I think there will be some day where you won't even think about your connection at all.

And also Huawei being the dominant force here, others have to be competitive.

Yeah, but there's something really magical about technology.

Technology is built in this gestalt where, all right, instead of when our products get better, we increase prices to maximize margin.

As products get better, we lower the price.

And they have convinced us all, you know, it's not, they don't call it Cadillac one, Cadillac two, Cadillac III,

because they assume, all right, the car gets better, but not at the same pace as the iPhone 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 and 2G, 3G, 4G.

So tech has done an amazing job of not only improving products, but creating brands in a feel that the obsolescence phenomena here is so strong, you constantly have to be reinvesting and upgrading.

And it creates just more and more,

it taps into our competitive instincts.

I mean, I'm excited.

I will ask for 5G.

Maybe it's out.

It's important to me.

I don't understand it.

I don't need to understand it, but I will pay additional margin for it.

I think 5G right now is one of the strongest business brands in the world.

And in the U.S., like I said, two companies will reap the majority of that equity.

Yep, exactly.

And one of the things, let me read from a wired story so you can understand the technology of the promise is that 5G will bring speeds of around 10 gigabits per second to your phone.

That's 600 times faster than the typical 4G speeds off today's mobile phones and 10 times faster than Google's fiber standard home broad.

It's just, it's

the way you think about connectivity now

will change as these things.

A lot of these are riding on 4G networks that you're getting.

You're seeing 5G, sometimes 5G pops up on my phone.

But this is, you know, getting these to different parts of this country and to move it is critically important for

all the leading future things, like, again, connected, artificial intelligence, self-driving cars, all these connected devices.

We are operating on like 10 cans and a string comparatively.

And so, you know, it's just we have fallen behind

in connectivity in general for years and years and years and years and years.

And so

we have to adopt this.

South Korea has the highest rate of adoption,

but it's still not that big.

And U.S.

users just do not have

fast connectivity at all.

And it's always been lagging.

And if we don't have this,

it's critical to everything that's coming, autonomous cars, everything, everything

that's part of the future.

And you weren't going to get there without this.

So yes, it's it once it is,

John Stanky, for all his wrongness about media, is right about this.

They've got it.

Put every bit of shoulder into this.

Yeah.

And what people don't realize is, I mean, 5G, even if it's on your phone, if you don't have

if you don't have mid-band or if there's not the right infrastructure, you don't get to take advantage of it.

So there's...

There's all sorts of,

so my understanding is mid-band

is the sort of critical factor that's been missing from a lot of the networks.

And there's a lot of capex to take advantage.

The stat you highlighted, that's if you're in the right area with the right infrastructure.

So anyways, but look, I think this is, I think Verizon and ATT are going to do really well, which is a focus on, and I told you my story.

I was asked to come speak to a bunch of Verizon people and I said, well, okay, all I'm going to tell them is double down on 5G and lose the media assets.

And they called me back and told me that they had a change in scheduling and no longer wanted me to speak there.

They just took your advice.

They didn't need to pay you to be there to tell them something they did themselves.

Well, they'd already decided and they're like, we don't need this guy to stand up and tell 40% of the people in the room they're about to get sold or fired.

So, but anyways, I'm excited about 5G.

I don't know exactly what it means, but that's the wonderful thing about technology is we trust people.

And you mentioned electricity.

It's interesting.

Electricity, you don't think, oh, I've got to upgrade my electricity, do you?

You don't think, oh, faster.

Except when there's like wildfires in California or hurricanes or things like that.

They're going going to be shuttling down electricity in California.

It's going to be problematic for Dievin Newsom.

I'm getting a generator.

Mostly because I like to embarrass the rival dads and talk about my generators.

Do you have like a closet of apocalypse?

Is that another thing you're doing?

I just

in Florida, there are hurricanes.

I'm getting a big-ass generator.

All right, okay, get a general.

From Kohler.

I didn't even know they made generators.

Speaking of

the corporate plan?

You want to talk about a strong move?

The other day, I explained crypto to a rival dad in front of his family.

That's a strong move.

That's a strong move.

What is this, crypto, Scott?

I can see it on this.

And then I pulled out my leaf blower.

Just one of the things that's important to keep in mind here that most of the 5G patents are not owned by U.S.

companies.

Qualcomm is the biggest player, but the others are Huawei, obviously, Samsung,

LG, Nokia, Ericsson, and Qualcomm.

But U.S.'s does not have dominance here.

And that's been a political issue, too.

So, and then there's all these controversies around the health, like that, there's all these conspiracy theories around it, which also come along.

Bill Gates is related to one of them, or whether he's trying to put different things in your brain and stuff like that.

So

it's a really interesting time, I have to say, and it's critically important.

The hype is worth it.

Anyway, let's get to one more quick break and we'll be back for predictions.

Your sausage mcmuffin with egg didn't change.

You receipt it.

The sausage mcmuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5.

Only at McDonald's for a limited time.

Prices and participation may vary.

Bundle and safe with Expedia.

You were made to follow your favorite band and from the front row, we were made to quietly save you more.

Expedia, made to travel.

Savings vary and subject to availability, flight inclusive packages are adult protected.

Okay, Scott, what is your prediction?

We've been very good.

We We talked about MGM being bought by Amazon.

We've talked about, what was the other one we got right?

You were noting something.

So we back when Peloton,

the recall of

the treadmills, the stock dove to, I think, 63, and we predicted that it would be back to 100 within 30 days.

And we were wrong.

It was back to 100 within 17 days.

See?

So we got that one right.

We talked to the SEC.

We're actually on a roll here.

Yeah.

So let's throw up on ourselves.

What have we gotten wrong?

Anything?

No, we get a lot wrong.

Yeah.

We just forget it and move on.

Yeah.

Well, no.

Twitter will have a new CEO.

Tesla stock will be cut in half.

Carol, you heard it here.

You know, the day that happens, you'll totally say, I got it right.

You won't, you know that.

Just wait long enough.

Just wait long enough.

Winter is coming.

Okay.

Okay.

So the thing that

I don't think anyone's talking about, and I love,

I don't know, I love corporate governance, but I'm fascinated by shareholder classes.

And one of the things that Stankey wanted, because he wanted to monetize

his Time Warner assets to the greatest extent possible.

Is he wanted a company, the NuCo, the Spin, to have one class of stock.

Because generally speaking, two-class shareholder companies gives too much power to people who may not share the same interests as shareholders.

And they oftentimes, at least theoretically, trade as a discount to

single-stock companies because single-stock companies can be taken over.

So that acquisition premium is sort of already built in.

Sure.

So Stanke demanded that the NuCo have a single class of shares.

And this is what is going to, I believe, play out.

And that is the requisite investments that Newco, Discovery, whatever they're calling it, Discovery Plus, Discovery Communications, is going to have to make to show that they're a player and meet the expectations around subscriber growth, around streaming is going to require such an extraordinary investment that Newco

is going to have, is going to miss on earnings.

And that is they're running around promising everything.

They're promising that we'll be able to hold on to our ad revenue and pulse a subscriber service.

They're promising everybody everything.

Oh, you like the consistent profits of a declining

sector that's in a company that's

a business model that's in secular decline, specifically the advertising cable industrial complex?

Fine, we'll hold on to that.

But you also want the great taste, the growth of the streaming service.

Guess what, Bob?

You can't have both.

That requires an extraordinary investment.

They will have to go through this valley of death.

They will throw up in their second or third earnings call.

The stock will go down.

And this company is going to be put in play by Comcast or someone else who will come in and become a larger shareholder.

Oh, more complex.

Why don't they just come in now?

They just want to get it out in the open.

My understanding is the deal is pretty airtight.

But

once it's a publicly traded stock and, and Kara, it's a single class, it'll be the, think about this.

NewCo, or Discovery, is about to become the only media company in the world over a $10 billion market capitalization that is in play, that someone could come in and buy.

No one can buy Amazon.

No one can buy Disney.

I mean, this is, it becomes the only media asset.

A tasty treat, and David Zazlov gets rich, yes.

That someone could come in and buy.

So you're going to see, in my opinion, they've over-promised.

They're going to have to take EBITDA projections down.

The existing shareholder base.

that is sort of neither here nor there.

I don't know if this is a shareholder base that

wants slow but steady growth or wants the fast growth, but

losses of streaming.

The shareholder base will shake out.

You'll see the stock punt or throw up, and then you're going to all of a sudden see a D or an F filing by a Comcast or someone else.

Another media company is about to become

Amazon took the step and they're taking it.

They must have made the calculation that they could.

This story has not been written.

We keep saying that.

This is ridiculous.

This is a ridiculous price for this thing.

You and I should make a bid.

What do you say?

I'm in.

We would be good medium.

We would be so canceled.

I got some Doja coins.

We would be so canceled.

I got some Doja coins.

We could run around and offend the broccolis.

I got a Discover card with no limits.

No, no cash limit.

You would do that, wouldn't you?

2% cash back.

Yeah.

If I was a Hollywood monkey, I want to be the crazy one, just say crazy things all the time.

Did I tell you my Hollywood story if I was a mogul?

No, but please.

Would you like to hear it?

So a friend of mine was

the showrunner and creator of the L-word.

And so, I went up to Vancouver where they were taping it.

Is that like a dream come true for you?

I tried to Vancouver to see the filming of the L-word.

Yes, they're very nice.

I love that Lacast, Jennifer Beals.

I like them all.

They're such lovely people.

Anyway, what a feeling.

I love her.

That's Jennifer Beals?

Yes, that Jennifer.

She's lovely.

I'll introduce you to her someday.

She's really a lovely egg.

I couldn't handle it.

I just couldn't handle it.

She's a good egg.

She's a good egg.

I met Jane Lynch there.

I met all kinds of people.

I love her.

Oh, Jane Lynch.

She's there.

Oh, my God.

Jay Lynch.

She's the friend.

She are going to be friends.

She just doesn't.

I will maybe excuse her.

I don't know.

I love Jay Lynch.

She's in Marvelous Mrs.

Mazel, by the way.

She's amazing.

So anyway,

I had a great time there.

But when I was on the set, one of the things was I needed internet access.

And at the time, internet access wasn't.

Were you a special consultant?

No, a lesbian wears a gold chain

and yells out

famous lines from Dorothy episodes before I do my wife.

No, my friend Eileen Chaikin is great.

She's had it all kinds of hits.

She was Empire.

She has another one.

Oh, The Equalizer?

One of them.

I forget.

One of them.

She's got another one.

I don't know if it's Equalizer.

How many seasons did the L word?

A lot.

It's still there.

It's still going on.

Now it's the new L-word with new lesbians.

And the old ones are still there, too.

You've got to follow it.

You got to invention our relationship.

Literally, there's just so many jokes I just can't say right now.

Literally.

Literally.

It is my Hollywood story.

I'm on the set.

Read my mind.

Read my mind.

And they, of course, there's assistance running everywhere because it's ridiculous, these, these, these hierarchies on these Hollywood sets.

And the citizen came and said, what do you want for lunch?

And, you know, I'm like, whatever you have is fine.

Like, I'm not like that.

I'm not that kind of person.

And I just wanted to see how far they'd go because I heard, you know, you could get any, you could ask for, you know, you asked for anything.

And I said, I'd like a shark sandwich.

And she was like, what?

And I said, a shark sandwich.

And she's, she, instead of saying, what the fuck are you talking about, lady?

Give me a minute.

Okay.

On what bread?

I go, obviously, ciabata.

Like, I was like, what are you talking about?

And with Aioli, come on, get on board a shark sandwich.

And she literally started to go to try to find one.

And I stopped her.

I was like, please, if someone asks you for a shark sandwich, never get it.

A turkey sandwich is.

Okay, I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I'm going to ask the next time you have a behind-the-scenes story about filming at the L-word that it's a little bit more exciting than the sandwich you ordered.

I mean, don't build up my hope and my expectations like that.

Jennifer Beals, L-word, behind-the-scenes story.

That was all working.

She's so nice.

She's the nicest person.

All right, here's.

I'll give you a Jennifer Beals.

She, I took her around at CES one year, and we kept pretending she was an eBay executive.

No one recognized her.

She's stunningly beautiful and lovely and smart and everything.

But we kept putting her off as an eBay executive the whole weekend.

That was some fun.

That was a fun time.

Okay, that's it.

That's my old story.

No, grandma, tell us more stories about you at the L-word set.

Jesus Christ.

Snooze around.

Anyway, you should watch the L-word.

Together we'll watch.

I'll come to Florida.

It'll be really fun.

That's what we should have watched instead of the Boston.

Aren't you just so fucking weird?

You and me watching the L-word together?

Seriously.

No, you know what?

You can do, you're going to come down here, and we're going to watch I Dream of Genie.

Okay.

Genie, go to your bottle.

Oh, my God.

Yes, Master.

Yes, Master.

I wonder if MG.

I watched two hours of I Dream of Genie.

Who owns I Dream of Genie?

By the way, I sat next to Barbara Eden on my interview at Margaret Scene.

She's a lovely woman.

Smart, nice.

Who owns the IP for i Dream?

Now, that could be something Jeff Bezos could get into.

Who owns it?

That's our entree into the media world.

Who owns it?

NBC.

The Jungle Cat Dog SPAC has announced the acquisition of the IP to I Dream of Genie and the A Team.

And we couldn't get the L word, but we're starting something called the M word.

Yeah.

All right.

We got to close this up.

We got this.

This is digressing fast.

Scott, I'm I'm going to have you read the entire thing out.

So I have here, we'll be taking the long weekend.

So next week's show will be published on Wednesday morning instead of Tuesday.

That doesn't make any sense.

Anyways, I'm going to a wedding in Knoxville.

A wedding in Knoxville?

That sounds kind of fun.

Yeah, it's my nephew's wedding.

It should be fun.

And I'm glad it's in person.

Yeah.

Congratulations.

What's your nephew's name?

Shout him out.

Give him a shout out.

Will Swisher.

And he's marrying Lee, and they're wonderful.

And I'm very excited.

Will and Lee Swisher.

Congratulations.

Yeah.

He's going to Harvard Law School next year.

Well, I'm sorry.

He's getting married and going to Harvard.

Yeah.

So things aren't working out for this kid.

I hate, Will, I hope things turn up for you.

Don't worry, boss.

Hang in there.

We're getting in the car and driving my mom, the whole gang to Knoxville.

It's going to be great.

So I'm going to go out on a limb here, but any kid going to Harvard who's getting married in Knoxville, that'll literally be one of the last things he ever does in Knoxville.

Goodbye, Knoxville.

This might as well be a goodbye, Knoxville party.

It's where his lovely bride is from.

Anyway,

in any case, we'll be gone.

But please send us your listener mail mail questions.

We love them.

Go to nymag.com slash pivot to get a chance to be on the podcast.

Scott, read us out.

Today's show was produced by Rebecca Sinana.

Serni Andreta engineered this episode.

Thanks also to Drew Burroughs.

Make sure you've subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts, or if you're an Android user, check us out on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.

If you like the show, please recommend it to a friend.

Thanks for listening to Pivot from Box Media.

We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

Nana, tell us more stories about you on this set.

I'm going to Dollywood.

I'm going to Dollywood.

It's near Knoxville.

I'll tell you those stories when I get back.

Take pictures.

Take pictures, Kara.

Enjoy the wedding.

Congratulations, Will.

And what's his bride's name?

Lee.

Congratulations, Will and Lee.