Is there a Trump without Twitter? A mini class on "dispersion", and a prediction about CNN

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Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

And this is Scott Galloway.

I've been cleared by my urologist.

I'm going to be the backup quarterback for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers next season.

No, you aren't.

Have you ever played football?

Yes, as a matter of fact, anyone can try out.

One of the wonderful things about UCLA athletics is anyone can try out for any sport.

Yeah.

So I've been cut from several sports at UCLA.

And at football, you can go through the combine, and then they give you notes

feedback, which is really wonderful.

And my notes afterwards.

What's a combine?

What's a combine?

I'm sorry.

Well, it's a series of drills that test your athletic ability footing to football.

It's everything from the 40-yard dash to something they call

they do

when I was there,

you sat on your knees and you threw the ball as far as you could.

Something called a shuttle run, just a bunch of stuff that supposedly tests your athletic ability.

Anyways,

my feedback, no joke, was three words.

Small but slow.

There you go.

That kind of sums up the dog.

Small but slow.

Like an old Puerto Rican rescue hound.

Stupid.

Stupid but ugly.

That is not.

Stupid but ugly.

Wow.

Wow.

Small but slow.

Small but slow.

That's your new name.

That's your new name.

Small but slow.

There you go.

There you go.

Oh, I didn't think that was going to be a good story, but there it is.

There it is.

That's a good story.

Wow.

So you had no athletic prowess in school ever?

I was a varsity athlete at UCLA.

I rode crew where all the failed athletes end up that are over six foot two.

Okay.

And by the way,

got me a job in the fixed income department.

Oh, sure.

Those crew goals.

Hold on.

Hold on.

Of Morgan Stanley with a 2.27 GP out of UCLA.

And the head of the department said anyone who can row crew gets an automatic offer.

He was

an oars person.

So again, I think we call that white privilege, Carol.

Oh, my God.

I think we call that white privilege.

Jesus.

Of course, you haven't asked about my sporting history.

What do you think I played?

Guess.

I want you to guess.

Field hockey.

Yeah.

I got that.

Second one.

Yeah.

Two of them.

There's two.

Point guard on the basketball team?

No.

Coxon and the oars.

No.

What do rich people do?

Did you play lacrosse?

No, of course not.

I hate lacrosse.

My kids play lacrosse.

Polo?

No, polo.

Tennis.

Tennis.

You play tennis.

Yeah.

Nice sport.

You can play the rest of your life.

Yes, I don't play it anymore.

I played all the time.

I went to tennis camp.

We had a tennis court, everything.

But I no longer play.

I was pretty good.

But tennis and field hockey.

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say you felt more at home on the field hockey field.

And I say that in the best way.

I say that in the best way.

Are you making an anti-gay remark?

Give me a fucking stick and let me go at it.

Well,

I'm going to hit everything but that I was a, I don't know, I forget, halfback.

I don't remember.

Anyway, it was fun.

And let me just tell you, the coach, this is the only person I let call me, Cara.

She said, Cara, get the ball.

Isn't that the only sport they play in skirts?

Don't you think that's a good one?

Yeah, we had skirts.

There were skirts.

It was ridiculous.

I just, I didn't play.

It was not a long career.

Were you a good athlete?

I was okay.

I was one of those okay.

I was like, fine.

I was, no one was like, oh, God, don't give the ball to Kara.

I was good.

I was good, but not superb.

How's that?

But that's the key to sports: be good enough to play, but be bad enough to not have any delusions that you should do that as your career.

Yeah.

I lived, or I knew some world-class athletes at UCLA who went to the Seoul Olympics, and it was a bit of a curse because at the age of 28, they were calling me and asking me for help.

What are you going to do?

What are you going to do?

Very few, very few figure out a way to make a living in a lot of people.

I like sports.

I like sports.

I don't do them a lot.

It's wonderful.

It's just don't count on it to make a living, in my view.

But anyways,

is Dr.

Swisher an athlete?

He looks like he could have been a fullback at a Division II school.

I'm trying to think.

He must have played.

Who should we ask?

Maybe one of his other siblings?

I don't think we were tennis.

He was a good tennis player.

He was a very good tennis player.

So was my other brother.

We were all good tennis players.

But not, I don't remember.

We'll have to ask him on the internet since you have a personal relationship with him.

How about Dr.

Swisher?

Just so you know, I'm going to move on to actual things rather than our lives.

TikTok's sale sale to Oracle has been shelved indefinitely.

I know.

That's a shocker.

Shocker.

That's a surprise.

That's suspicious.

President Biden is reviewing the security risks from Chinese tech companies, as he should, like TikTok's parent company, ByteDance.

And that's that.

That is that.

And by the way, China is doing a lot of looking at their, they just arrested someone else on corruption charges that I think the WeChat company, the company that owns WeChat.

There's all this activity going.

China's

just putting those screws to a lot of their internet moguls.

I don't know if you've noticed that.

We'll talk about that as a full thing as I do some research on that.

You mean they're being smart?

When power corrupts and people start abusing their consumer base?

Yeah, well, we'll see.

Trying to manipulate the banking system or depressing their teens, they say, you know, you know, we're going to put a stop to that.

I hate to sound pro-Chinese, but please don't on this one.

Sounds like it's not the same.

The way they deal with it is a little different than how we deal with it.

Fair enough.

Fair point.

But TikTok.

So what's going to happen to TikTok now?

It's not going to be sold necessarily.

It's still going to be doing a deal with Walmart around the products that get sold on the site, which is okay, sure.

Look,

this was an easy one, Carr and we called it.

What's going to happen with TikTok?

Absolutely nothing.

Wait out the page.

Biden will use this to actually do something called policy, thoughtful policy, and he will use TikTok and everything from WeChat to Ollipay as leverage to say, if you want access to the biggest consumer market in the world, you have to give us access to the fastest growing consumer market in the world.

And they will have thoughtful people, not the B-league bad news bears, Peter Navarro, like Joey Bagadonuts team over there negotiating trade agreements that consist of one thing.

How do you make Donald Trump look good and let him build a 12-carat gold hotel over here?

Yeah.

To actual policy.

But I think at the end of the day, we embrace competition.

Competition is a fantastic thing for innovation and job growth.

And something tells me in a year to two years, we'll still be scrolling through TikTok videos.

What do you think?

I think so.

I think you're exactly right.

I think it's a, you know, there's, we've got to figure out how to deal with China as a, as a power, as they have more popular stuff that moves into this country.

TikTok's really the first company that really

did that, I think.

And even though they talk about all the protections, there's an idea about putting the data somewhere right now.

I think it's in Singapore, but really having a third-party company deal with the data, that's a possibility.

You can see a Microsoft doing something like that

for a piece of it or something, and it going public eventually.

I think that's really where it's headed.

And

probably in the U.S., they'll probably go public on the New York Stock Exchange or an ASDAC or whatever.

But the whole thing was ridiculous.

Peter Navarro literally, you know, dipped his beak in COVID.

He sucks.

In this, he sucks.

In everything, he sucks.

It just literally made a mess of a situation that requires policy, really does, like serious policy.

And I think everyone just was waiting at the stock and heaved a giant sigh of relief.

And now we can actually talk about the serious issues around surveillance, et cetera, and more, all kinds of stuff.

So I'm, you know, it's just ridiculous.

The fact that they were able to do things like this was just, and even let, you know, relatively credible people like Steve Mnuchin had to deal with it, although I'm not going to give him too much credit for anything because he was sitting there letting it happen.

You know, I think it's

good.

It's good.

And we'll see where it goes.

But it definitely slowed that company down.

Like that's, which was, I think, the intent,

which, you know, you have to.

Slow TikTok down?

Yeah, I think it got, you know, they got, they got all that attention with all their employees.

They, you know, it's an innovative company, and, you know, now everybody's sort of focused on Clubhouse at this point.

But it was, it had a lot of momentum, and it slowed that momentum down.

I don't know.

I don't, it may have slowed it internally, and we'll know maybe in six months we won't see the level of innovation because people have been distracted.

But my sense is

TikTok has got a ton of momentum.

It's interesting.

TikTok was developed to Twitter.

It was called Vine, except in their infinite wisdom of strategic head-up your assery, they decided to kill it.

We will get to Twitter in a minute.

Yes, but you're right.

Twitter.

Twitter has A lot of this stuff was at Twitter.

The other thing, Salesforce is leaving behind a nine to five workday in a blog post.

They said after the pandemic, employees can create their own work weeks and only go to the office one to three days a week.

That's kind of how I've operated my whole career.

But it's just like everyone's sort of decided you don't need to go to the office.

I think that's a giant, you don't need to go to the office kind of thing.

But this is where I think the world is headed, and that is we like to process information in zeros or ones.

Either companies are going to go back to the old way or they're going to be all remote.

And the reality is, 98% of corporate America is going to develop a hybrid.

And we know at a minimum, people are going to be more comfortable with you saying, look, on Thursdays and Fridays, I don't have child care or I need to be at home or I commute to NYU from Princeton, New Jersey, which some of our outstanding administrators do.

And they're going to say, okay, well, Wednesday and Friday, you can stay at home.

But

if you think of a 20% or 30%

net

demand destruction in the office, I mean, the unintended consequences here, not only around capital reallocation, but unfortunately,

I'm fascinated with second order effects.

And I think that some of the second order effects are going to be really negative.

And the most obvious one is the one we've already talked about.

Office space.

Well,

that's the first order.

The second order is that when dual income

with kids, households decide to move further out of town, or because the school is closed, someone needs to be at home, it's almost always the woman.

And one of the most frightening statistics I have seen, and I keep repeating it because it's important, is that women's participation in the labor force has regressed 35 years.

And I've always thought that the key to equality, the key to civil rights, the key to solving systemic racism comes down to one thing, money.

Firms where there are women making just as much money in just as high positions, raking in just as many millions as men, do not have as many

instances of harassment because it's about power.

And my sense is if you take women back 30 years economically, you're going to see an increase in sexual harassment.

You're going to see an increase in child poverty.

You're going to see all kinds of bad things happen.

In addition, what I tell young people, don't work from home, get to HQ because

there's three people qualified to become the editor.

And there's three deputy editors who are qualified to become the editor or three directors qualified to become the VP.

And the SVP or the managing editor that gets to make that decision will ultimately regress to relationships, who they trust.

And the way you build relationships is a function of proximity.

So before you collect dogs, before you collect kids, put on a dress, put on a suit or a pan suit and get to HQ

to the office.

Although I have to say, let me just say, I have built lots of relationships just online with people, like strong relationships.

So I think you're right.

It does set women back 100%.

But this idea of, hey, do what you want.

It's like the hey, do what you want vacations.

Take it whatever you want.

Nobody takes as much.

It's just,

I'm worried.

We're worried.

We're going to talk about this more.

This is a good topic, Scott.

But first, we're going to go to the big story.

Twitter says they will be banning Donald Trump from the platform for life.

Even he's he's banned for life, even if he runs for president again in 2024.

During the company's fourth quarter earnings call, CEO Jack Dorsey said that we're a platform that is obviously much larger than any one topic or any one account in regards to the Trump ban.

Meanwhile, the Indian government threatened to have Twitter employees jailed.

Twitter blocked over 500 accounts criticizing the country's prime minister, but not enough for the government, apparently.

This week, Twitter's earnings report and company failed to beat user growth expectations.

So

talk to Twitter.

There's a lot going on here.

They obviously did a lot of hand-waving around the Donald Trump things, I guess, so it wouldn't focus on the earnings report.

But, you know, I didn't think they were going to bring them back.

I didn't think there was a ban that would be unbanned.

But

disclosure, I'm a shareholder.

Yes.

So look,

Twitter needs to do three things to get to $100, right?

They need to go to subscription.

They need to go vertical with content.

And they need to have a full-time CEO.

They announced a week ago, just a week ago, that they are getting serious about subscription.

The stock is up 20%

in the face of

anemic user growth.

Jim Kramer, who gets a lot of shit online, I feel better about myself because I've gotten so much shit on Twitter lately.

And I just put out a tweet.

Jim Kramer said he thinks Twitter is going to 100 bucks.

And my Twitter feed got flooded with all these very negative things about Jim.

I've always found Jim, he's an easy target.

I've always found him a thoughtful, nice man.

But anyways,

he says, and he had an interesting take, Twitter moving to kind of starch its hat white, moving to more, I think the term he used was kindness or purity.

When Pinterest went kind, when Snap went kind, their stocks accelerated.

I didn't make that observation.

And his viewpoint is them kicking Trump off is a move towards becoming more kind or a gentler place.

And there might be some truth to that.

But here's the thing: they have used, they have

the laziest move ever was to let the rage and engagement and short-term sugar high of these very controversial misinformation spread by not primarily one account, but most distinctly one account.

Attached to one account.

And

they never showed the backbone to kick them off.

1,449 days into its 1,460-day tenure, they kick them off.

And what do you know, the stock is up dramatically.

It dipped.

It went down 11% when they first did it because investors got worried.

And now everyone's like, wow, even Twitter feels,

I now feel like I need to shower a little less often on Twitter.

Right.

It's interesting.

I was talking to someone from GLAD, the gay and lesbian organization that looks at these things.

And I was asking about how they,

Sarah Kate Ellis, how they deal with these companies because they're doing the social, they're going to do a grade like they did for Hollywood companies.

And she said, if I had to pick one, they don't, none of them get great grades, but Twitter at least is responsive.

And this thing that they did just changed the equation for them with us.

You know what I mean?

It started to start a thing.

And they go, none of them are perfect.

It is, it is, you know, assuming that this is not their business anymore is a good thing.

What is their actual business?

What is their better business, I think, rather than being, you know, a hair on fire place where people scream at each other.

It's not their best business.

You know, it's just not like, and if you, as you said, if they bought CNN or they did subscription, you know, they missed so many turns.

I mean, they met Vine.

There's so many turns they missed.

They missed Clubhouse, really.

They missed, so did Facebook, right?

Substack, Clubhouse, TikTok.

Right.

And

they're coming to the realization that being a handmade to sedition is, it can be a good business model.

It's a handmade to sedition.

What is it?

But you have to be a handmade to sedition at scale, like Google or Facebook.

Yeah.

Like if you're, and they've also recognized that having any part in a Capitol police officer being bludgeoned by a fire extinguisher is a bad business model.

And so they've recognized, I think they're finally coming to the grips.

It'll take them twice as long because their CEO is part-time, but they're coming to grips with the fact that they can't be the number three player in rage.

It's just, it's not only bad for the Commonwealth, it's bad for shareholders.

And any threat, think about this.

If they just get to 10% of the revenues from subscription, the stock hits triple digits.

All right.

All right.

This is, I think, I mean,

by the way,

Twitter shares have doubled in the last 12 months.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You note that.

I mean, I think they've got a really, because they do have, they do have a,

people are enjoying themselves on Twitter a little bit more.

You know, you still have Ted Cruz lobbing an idiot thing, although he was right about, he correctly quoted Macbeth this week and other people jumped on him, which was really, and specifically Andrew Mitchell was inaccurate.

But they're still going to have that sort of back and forth.

But actually, there's been a lot of really interesting and thoughtful things.

It feels more interesting and thoughtful as a news consumption vehicle, especially, like analysis and things like that.

And that's very helpful.

Like the more news, actual good, not good news, but deep news that is

you're able to debate in a, you know, in an interesting way or to get insights in, it's so useful as a medium.

You know, as I told you, my son is using it a lot.

He likes it for news.

That's where he, you know, he reads, he follows certain people, he gets different points of view.

It has a lot of utility in that regard.

And I think that's a great thing.

Question is, can Trump make a successful political comeback without the Twitter mega?

Can you imagine if you had Twitter this week during the impeachment hearings?

Like, I'm so glad you can't hear from him except for those stupid statements he releases or his dumb lawyers.

Everything, it's like George Costanza, that episode in Seinfeld, where every instinct he has, he does the opposite.

Every instinct I have around Donald Trump, every prediction I've made about Donald Trump, the exact opposite has happened.

I am totally incapable of understanding his supporters and him.

So I'll pivot it back to you.

What do you think?

I think it's going to have a hard time.

I think it was his way, his expression.

I think it was his oxygen.

And I think that combined with the rallies was something.

Now, he could keep doing those, but I think people are tired of covering those, right?

So he's going to have to do a lot of rallying, like go and do this sort of barnstorming tour.

And he's old.

Like, I'm sorry.

He's four years older.

He's four years.

You know what I mean?

And the act gets a little wearying after a while.

And so I think

his favorite people go to see the same, play the same songs over and over again, but it gets a little like, what's next, you know, kind of thing.

And I think without Twitter to change things up, it's hard.

I think it's really hard for him.

And I think this stuff, even though he's not going to get convicted by the Senate, apparently, because the Senate or the Republican senators are just ignoring reality.

I think this stuff that they're doing, the Democrats are doing, are putting a real stain on him in a way that's just,

you know, ugh, this guy.

And I don't know if it'll stick, but it's certainly damning historically.

It's damning historically to him.

But the other thing, and I I wonder, and this is his projection, that, okay, they're no longer in power.

They no longer have the office of the president, which basically kind of almost free pass.

Yeah, is

basically makes you immune from any serious legal prosecution and your family members.

I wonder if they just gathered all of them in a room and at some point, all that money buys you some clear blue flame thinking legal counsel and someone sat them down and said, you know, Don, Don Jr., Ivanka, you guys would just be better off keeping a low profile for a while.

You are, you need to stay out of the line of vision of every attorney general in the nation for a little bit.

Just

go low for a little bit.

And

I don't know if they're capable of that, but I would imagine at some point somebody with a decent legal mind and a decent decentralization.

I think Pat Cipollone is the one that was like, you need to do this, this, you need to not do this, this, and this.

And it probably saved him in that regard because he could have done even worse.

You know, I think one of the things that's come through from watching these hearings is that how close this was to actual serious deaths.

You mean the vice president being hurt?

Everything

hurt or Nancy Pelosi being hurt.

Any of them.

Mitt Romney just turned around because one cop told him, what if that cop hadn't been running there when Mitt Romney was there?

He would have run right into the crowd.

You think they would have not done something dangerous?

Damn it.

They would have tried to attack him.

I mean, it's just, I don't know.

It just was like, that's the closeness of how close,

what a close call all those people on Capitol Hill had.

I'm embarrassed by you bring up Mitt Romney.

And I'm trying to, you know,

we're having Adam Grant on Monday, and he, he's written a new book, and he has this thing on, okay, flip-flopping is when you back off your positions because the mob comes from you.

But evolving is recognizing other people's points and changing your view because you're generally concerned about learning.

And that's what I'm trying to do through this whole GameStop thing because I realized I made some stereotypes that weren't, that weren't accurate.

But the

thing, one of the things I look back on is

I physically didn't like Mitt Romney when he was running against Obama because of the bubble I'm in.

I thought he's

not a decent person,

you're not stupid, but I just really didn't like him and really didn't like what he stood for.

And what I've recognized is that I don't agree with Senator Romney on a lot of issues, but I think he's a good man.

I think he really does care about the country.

I think he has backbone.

I think he demonstrates courage.

I like the fact that he's a family man.

I think he's, I think he's a, you know, I think he's, I think we are better having Senator Romney in, you know, in the Capitol.

And I'm kind of embarrassed that I took part in this partisanship and I immediately leapt to the filter bubble I'm in.

Anyway, Senator Romney.

He made a lot of political mistakes of buying your...

Who doesn't?

Who doesn't?

I know, but I'm saying, but he came off as a, I don't think he was the ideal presidential candidate.

In any case, that's very nice that you learned.

You learned.

So did that Louisiana senator.

I'm like the Green Mile.

Every great story is about a white man pursuing redemption and achieving it.

And achieving it.

See, I'm going to say that.

That's the storyline of every great Hollywood movie.

I'm subtly to you right now, but explicitly, yes.

Your feels do not matter.

I have overcome my flaws.

Applaud me.

Applaud me.

All right, good for me.

I was trying to be polite there, but thank you for the money.

That's my heart.

I'm exactly aware of that.

Forgive me for my flaws.

How does it affect Scott?

Let's talk about these things.

Hey, Kara.

Kara, I just got to say, like, there are a series of lies I tell myself.

And if you were a better friend, you would support those lies.

Well, lovely.

You would support those lies.

All right.

Let's go to a quick break.

We come back.

We'll have a mini lesson.

I'm going to let Scott go on.

I can't believe I'm saying this.

On dispersion.

And then we're going to take a listener mail question.

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off.

Okay, Scott, we're back.

We're going to change things up a bit.

Instead of talking about a news story, there's plenty of news stories.

We're going to go wonky into a concept because we want to teach people things.

We're teachers, not me.

You talk about the idea of dispersion in your book.

Let's do a mini class.

I want you to explain the trend, and you have to let me interject while you're explaining, Professor Galloway.

But talk about, explain this trend, and what does it mean for young people listening to how to invest their time and money?

Dispersion by Scott Galloway.

Well, first off, if you want to interject, you're going to have to get comfortable with interrupting me, Kara.

I know that's difficult for you, but you're going to have to see if you can do that.

Anyways, look, there have been three major shifts in our economy over the last 50 years that have created unprecedented wealth.

And one of your keys as a young person, if you get to waves that are perfectly formed and with an offshore breeze, those make great surfers.

If you get to fresh powder, you can commit yourself a great skier.

You want to get to where the best waves are and where the best snow is.

And in the last 50 years, the best three waves have been first globalization, people with international skills that understood the arbitrage between a comparative advantage and globalization created massive shareholder value.

The next was digitization.

That's how I developed economic security.

I rode the e-commerce wave.

I started an e-commerce company and then I advised other companies on their e-commerce strategy.

And then I

held Amazon stock for 15 years.

Anyways, the third big wave is upon us and it's dispersion.

And loosely speaking, it's taking the source or the producer or supplier of value and figuring out a way to get to the end stakeholder by skipping points of distribution.

The most obvious example is Wonder Woman 1984 shows up on your TV screen and it skips.

It skips movie theaters and it adds core value to the end consumer.

We're going to see dispersion and trillions of of dollars of reallocation and what I coach young people to do is get in front of the dispersion wave and specifically, specifically in order.

The third biggest wave of dispersion will be the dispersion away from campuses to deliver education using technology and give people some sort of vocational skills without using artificial constraints on supply to create a transfer of wealth of $1.5 trillion to administrators and endowments at universities.

There's going to be a dispersion in education.

The second biggest will be the dispersion of H headquarters, and that is the $12 trillion asset class.

It is commercial real estate, 20 to 30 percent net destruction.

That'll move to the residential asset class.

That means home prices, lumber prices, sub-zero refrigerators, cold storage, Sonos, restoration hardware, anything with the term remote in it, working out from home.

The home is about to take two, our residential ecosystem is about to take two to three trillion dollars out of the dispersion from headquarters.

And the biggest dispersion, the biggest opportunity you want to put yourself in the midst of is the dispersion of health care.

17% of GDP, $3 to $4 trillion, 99% of the people who have contracted, endured, and developed antibodies from novel coronavirus will have never entered a doctor's office, much less a hospital.

That means insurance companies, that means medical centers that host doctor's offices are going to...

are going to lose capital and it's going to go to phones, smart speakers.

And if you really want to become a trillionaire, you got to build a time time machine.

Netflix is a time machine.

If your kids are only allowed to watch Netflix, they save 11 days in commercial.

If you only shop at Amazon and use Amazon Grocery, you save nine days in a grocery store.

And if we can get primary health care out of the doctor's office and out of the commute to a mother whose child has diabetes, we can save half of that 12 weeks a year she spends managing that kid's diabetes.

Not only is it an economic opportunity, the real cost is in time.

We can can begin offering people primary health care, distributing it out to the 90% of the population that has a smartphone and access to broadband, and we can begin going off our heels and onto our toes and treat medicine and health care as offense and health-driven as opposed to disease driven and people end up in the emergency room.

Three key areas of dispersion that will have tremendous, create tremendous shareholder value.

Headquarters, education, and health care.

The great dispersion is coming our way.

Dispersion is a fascinating word.

Isn't this just time savings, time reallocation?

That people are moving their time

instead of it going out.

It's moving.

Physically, we're moving elsewhere.

You're talking about, which is dispersion.

And then time is shifting in terms of how we use it and the waste of time.

One of the things when I started doing,

not working in the office, is I actually said that to my boss, it's a waste of my time to come down here.

It's a waste of my time.

I don't want to talk to you.

And they were like, you're so rude.

I'm like, well, it's a waste of my time.

It's a way, like, I can get, I can get more done and then do whatever I want to do.

How do you build communities then?

If you're doing, let's start with the office, because I think that's the, that's the idea.

How do you build a community

without having, because, because we don't have church is not as popular as it was.

That's, you know, although it is popular with some people.

A lot of community-based things aren't as popular as they were.

How do you create, and the office had become a place where people gather and interact?

That is exactly the right question.

You should consider a career in podcasting or interviewing people.

That is exactly the right question, because there is a very ugly downside to this.

Yeah.

And that is the cousin to dispose of.

I always like to find ugly.

The cousin to dispersion is segregation.

And when we withdraw to our homes, when we no longer interact with people from different income classes and different ethnicities at the mall or at the movie theater, when we no longer see the homeless vet at the off-ramp and the on-ramp on our way to work, when we no longer interact with people from different economic classes at school or university.

There's studies in Britain showing that when different demographic groups grow and you don't interact with them, when that nice Polish family moves in next door to you, you find out, you know what?

They wake up in the morning, they love their kids, they work hard, and you appreciate each other.

When different ethnic groups grow and you don't interact with them, you begin to resent them.

And the problem is we are withdrawing to our own little bubbles even more so.

We're not only dispersing in terms of our media consumption, we're dispersing geographically and physically.

And there's a very dangerous, we're basically segregating.

And segregation simply means one thing.

It means a lack of empathy.

And we are going to have to force.

And what you're saying about church is as nations become wealthier, The church attendance and reliance on a superband goes down.

And unfortunately, we have filled that need for mysticism and answer with our new Jesus Christ, which are these tech innovators, which primarily are sociopaths.

That's not my religion, but go ahead.

Anyways, but you're absolutely right.

So we are going to have to figure out a way, a national service.

We're going to have to figure out a way such that we begin bumping off of each other and seeing each other as Americans.

The public squares are now digital squares, right?

Great question.

Thank you.

I think it's national service.

That's why you and I have this thing going on.

You see, I'm trying to bring out your smarter ways.

But like, we're, so national service.

I've always thought national service was something everybody should do.

That's why I wanted to go in the military.

I thought there was a

way, although physical military is not as important as digital.

You know, look at all these cyber attacks.

Like, that's where it's all happening, essentially, where people will be looking at screens and dealing with this.

So, so, so, one of the things that you talked about, education is the same way.

Although, I think colleges are sort of

a lot of rich kids in lots of places.

You know what I mean?

It's like gatherings of essentially rich kids, and so in too many ways going forward.

But this idea of artificial constraints on supply, like this

is a really interesting one,

which is colleges, right?

Only so many people can get in.

Stanford's increased its endowment from $3 billion to $30 billion in 30 years.

They have tripled the number of applicants.

And do you know how much they've increased their freshman class?

None.

Zero.

They think of themselves as luxury brands.

They're like, we're not public servants.

We're our mess.

The head of Harvard Admission says we could have doubled our freshman class with no sacrifice in quality.

And then the correct question is, well, boss, with an endowment, the GDP of El Salvador, why the fuck aren't you?

I mean,

we have totally lost the script because we're all drunk on luxury.

We all think of our, we all brag that we turn away 92% of applicants.

For God's sake.

They're doing that again.

I just saw something like, oh, we think we see our applicants going up now that are.

It's skyrocketed.

And it's actually because of a weird reason, because we're no longer demanding the SAT.

All these kids who bombed the SAT, they thought, I might as well not apply to Harvard.

Now that they don't have to take the SAT, they're like, I'll throw in an application to Harvard.

The consolidation that's taken place across every industry is happening in education.

And that is

the world will be where we're going to be.

It's getting stronger and stronger and stronger.

And so bottom line, write them off.

What you need to do, what you need to do is

go to

the gangsters,

the upward lubricants of this great society, and that is our public and our state schools.

University of California, University of Texas, Michigan.

They'll be constrained because states are going to have to pay for the COVID.

So it's, you know, I think that's one of the things, and that's one of the places they tend to cut.

One of the things you talked about was cutting staff and every, you know, cutting like that, you don't have to have all these tenured professors and stuff like that.

Let me move on to something else, though.

Residential ecosystem that is going to be, what does that mean for people looking for jobs, like focus in on the house stuff and not commercial real estate?

What happens to the commercial real estate business?

There's so many employed in that and there's so much wealth.

You know, most of the rich people in most cities are

commercial real estate people.

It gets crushed.

Crushed.

Because most of these things i mean they're only levered up about 50 but a lot of buildings if they get have a the real my office space in soho i made the rookie move as an entrepreneur and i leased 8 000 feet at like 75 bucks a square foot i cut a check for a million dollars to get out of it when covet hit they're trying to release it at 45 bucks a foot and there's no takers right you're going to see

You know who also, speaking of a pivot on my part, you know who's going to do okay is WeWork.

I think WeWork is going to go public in a SPAC and actually perform quite well because what's going to happen is small companies are going to say, we need to get everybody together.

We need to have more socializing.

Young people want to get together at work.

So we need to make the office a really nice, interesting, social place, even if it's only one or two days a week.

Right.

But you are going to see anything in the commercial.

I don't care if it's a chopped salad restaurant that serves Midtown or

it's the people who sell those fluorescent light bulbs for workspaces or people who sell those coffee machines and workplace.

Anything linked to headquarters, get out of.

Anything linked to residential or remote, get into.

Although that's going to be dispersed.

Speaking of dispersion, I just talked to someone who I thought was in New York and they went for a month and a half out to New Mexico.

That's going to change.

I know.

They'll come back.

The death of cities has been greatly exaggerated.

Yeah.

Everyone looks at San Francisco and they're like, San Francisco is expensive, but bad.

Fine, go short San Francisco.

Young people, the most talented people in the world want to be in cities.

Yeah.

And it's I'm fascinated by that idea because I was thinking, why didn't I go to New Mexico?

What am I doing sitting here?

I actually have a more complex life, but it was an interesting thing.

Like, how do you come back?

And then how do you build those communities with people around schools?

That's another thing.

Like, if you're just, everyone's dispersed.

Like, I'm going to New York this weekend and just driving up, staying somewhere and not seeing anybody.

I'm just going to go see my son.

Kara, what happened to you?

I moved to Albuquerque.

I'm coaching field hockey.

Call me Cara.

Call me Cara.

I've not moved to Albuquerque.

But it was interesting.

I was like, all their, you know, Amanda was going to see her friends, but they're all somewhere else.

Like, how do you,

they'll all come back.

They'll all presumably come back.

But it was, it was really interesting.

It's like, once things go to the winds, they go to the winds.

You know, we don't want to disperse.

You know where we should have spent a disproportionate amount of this relief package instead of propping up the wealthiest cohort in America, small business and fucking Delta Airlines.

My guess is school.

We should have done anything we could to maintain the communities of K through 12.

I think we look back on this and we think how could we have taken some of that $3 trillion in stimulus and reduced mental health, reduced strain on working mothers would have been to allocate the requisite resources to ensure that teachers, parents felt comfortable figuring out a way to get K-12, keep K-12 schools open.

The dispersion of teaching to mostly mothers in the household and taking kids, young kids out of that socialization

has created real lasting damage.

That was a big mistake.

We should have figured out a way to keep K through 12 open.

Agree.

All right.

This is fascinating.

Scott, I really like this lesson.

I learned a lot.

This is really exciting.

I like it.

I think we have to go back and have another concept.

But everybody, dispersion is happening.

Dispersion.

We're going to talk about coalescing next time.

You know what we need more of?

We need more dispersion of pain to wealthy people.

Yeah.

If Amazon, Tanya Carrie.

I always like to do that.

If Amazon stock had gone down 70%, not up 70%,

the Amazon van that's going to be in my driveway later today would pop out and vaccinate everyone in my household.

The rich, it's been stop, stop, it hurts, it hurts so bad.

Israel, NASDAQ's down in 2020, or they're task 125, and what do you know?

They're vaccinating people at seven times the rate.

If rich people had lost money during this pandemic, we would have made the response in Singapore and South Korea and Taiwan look like amateur hour.

Agreed.

Although I think we're just, we've got so many crazies like with the masks.

They're doing double masks now.

And I'm like, we couldn't get them to put on the first one.

Like, how are we going to end up putting on the, and then I had someone's like, why didn't we know this?

I'm like, it's called science.

We find things out and then we adjust.

I was like, do you ever do that in your life?

And then I realized they didn't.

Anyway, moving on.

This is fascinating.

Thank you, Professor Galloway.

Let's take a listener mail question.

You've got, you've got, I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman.

You've got mail.

Hey, Karen Scott, longtime listener of the show.

I love what you all are doing.

So my question really is about the future of podcasting and media to some extent.

So I've been on Clubhouse now for a few weeks and the engagement levels there are just incredible.

I'm actually hosting a group of people to talk about the Pivot podcast later on today.

I'll let you know how it goes.

But the real question is, is this kind of medium, this idea of social audio,

is it an existential threat to podcasts?

Or is it something that becomes additive where you can actually extend the show to platforms like that?

I'd be curious to hear you all's opinion on it and maybe even a deeper analysis on what this new social audio space and where it's going.

Thank you.

Let's let the godmother of podcasting, podcaster of the year, according to some, to every media outlet, just to answer this.

That's me.

Here's the deal.

I think everybody thinks

everybody thinks they're a star.

It's the woman with the stick and the skirt.

I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

Everybody thinks they're a star.

And these, I like these social audio sites.

And the way I like focus on them is the community aspect.

I think this idea of everyone doing their own little show is fine, but that will doing shows is a marathon, my friends.

You know, I hate to say that, but everyone's, there was a point when podcasting, I had been doing hundreds of them for years, and then everyone and their mother decided they were, they could do an interview podcast, they could do this, and then they fell off.

It's just this one thing that takes, it's a marathon and you got to keep doing it.

You get better and better at it.

These things on these sites, people hosting, it's a nice feeling of power that you get to run something and talk about what you're interested in, but it takes forever and people start to fall off.

You've got to keep people interested.

So, it's that's one of the things that I think that's not where the focus of this thing should be.

This thing should be on conversations that groups that never can get together, just like the original AOL conversation groups were, you know, in text.

That's what this is.

Remember those, the chat rooms?

Yeah, the chat rooms.

It's like this is not a new fresh idea.

It's just audio applied to it.

And audio adds a really interesting element to it for sure, but it also adds like fatuous pop and J's going on and on.

Like, and and that's an issue.

Like, you're at a bar and someone won't shut up, essentially.

And so, I do think where the real power of this

would be me.

It's not creating these social media stars,

clubhouse stars that are going to like, because where's the, first of all, where's the monetization of those?

And, and

there can be, there will be a few stars on this thing, just like it is on all these other things.

But the most interesting part are these community groups where people talk about interesting things and you can drop in and listen to interesting conversations, conversations,

not podcasts, essentially.

And so I think it's interesting, but where the focus is right now is on, oh, Elon was on it.

Oh, Serena Williams on it.

They're not going to keep going.

They're not going to keep doing it.

They don't want to interact with their fans that much unless they're paid.

Just like cameo is a much better kind of, I understand that trade very easily.

So I think it's an interesting way.

And I think everyone's getting into it.

Facebook is reportedly, of course, making a better because they don't have new

idea.

Others are moving into the space.

Twitter should be moving in here.

And so

I think it's conversations are always interesting to me, and that's where I see it.

Scott?

Yeah, so

it is difficult for me to objectively evaluate.

First, let me start off by saying I am hearing a lot about Clubhouse.

That happens, right?

Wasn't it true?

I'm just hearing a lot about it from

influential people, and they generally seem interested in it.

Why not?

I have such a negative gut reaction to it just personally because I started right when it started, I started getting all these emails saying that this guy is obsessed with you and is constantly criticizing you on Clubhouse.

Here's an invitation to come on and get back in his face and defend yourself.

And I thought, that's just not why I want to be on platforms.

Yeah.

You know,

and it just left such a bad taste in my mouth.

And it was this kind of usual cabal of Silicon Valley guys that I know, and I just want nothing to do with them.

Right.

So I personally just can't do it.

I can't, can't, I have this negative gag reflex around this concept.

Right.

But having said that, a couple of things, I'm hearing a ton about it.

And two,

there's something about audio that creates a level of intimacy.

When you're watching TV, you're focused on the set.

Like Shonda Rhimes says, okay, it doesn't, you know, the dialogue is important.

The sounds they're making are important.

But if I can create a visual stimulation that just arouses all sorts of sensors, that's how I'm going to add value and it distracts me audio.

When you don't have visuals and you think about the conversation, the voice, the words are saying, it establishes a level of intimacy and a focus on the concepts and a focus on the IP they're actually trying to get across.

The friction of a dialogue, that friction can be a wonderful thing or that synergy, whatever you want to call it.

When people come up to me, if someone on the street high-fives me and says, dude, love, Prof.

G, love you, I know that person has seen a video.

If someone comes up to me and like grabs my hand and

looks at me like,

you know, they say, you really move me.

I know they read something I wrote.

And if someone comes up to me and starts speaking to me as if they know me.

I know it's from the pod.

Pod.

Yeah.

Because you establish a level.

So audio, it's interesting.

There's been so little investment in audio because everyone looked at audio as radio.

And so they sort of, it's been underinvested.

And now it's finally getting the investment that it warrants.

What you're going to see, though, is a lot of these things, I think probably including Clubhouse and podcasts, as we're seeing now with some of the discussions we've been having, are going to incur this incredible arb where if I can get an hour of someone's day twice a week at an NPS score of 60 or 70 and then use it as a means to sell more

towels, more handsets, or a subscription to a streaming video or audio service, then these these things become worth much more.

So it's not what you're getting with audio and the value of these things is not in their cash flows.

It's in their NPS and their command of the attention graph.

Let me let me interject.

One of the things that I was thinking, it's sort of the same thing with SubSack.

What would it take to get me on there?

Like stuff like that.

You don't need me.

And by the way, new stars are going to be created and that's great.

We love that.

But it also degenerates into dudes, like the podcast where dudes talk to each other.

And some of them work and most of them don't.

And that's really where you are.

And so I think it will degenerate into what it always degenerates into, which is, let me read, I'm going to read my stream on this, on

about Clubhouse that I put up, because Charlie Wurzel said he wasn't on it and he doesn't understand it, right?

And I said, he doesn't know why he should do it.

And I said, maybe, Charlie Wurzel, you don't want to paint a rich VC's fence by giving up your attention and analysis gratis.

Reminds me of when Facebook was bugging everyone to do Facebook Live.

All I could reply was, what's the actual benefit to anybody but Facebook?

It's certainly good for those who need or want to make a splasher as a place for new voices to emerge.

The real benefit of the services to users, in my humble opinion, is that the non-famous for Silicon Valley groups that are creative and additive to life and work in some way.

But the planopoly of achingly dull interviews with famed dudes is fine.

Being in the same room, even virtual, is exciting, like being near a celeb at a cocktail party, and you don't care a lot that it is a retread of remarks.

or just PR, but it'll get tired like those endless Silicon Valley parties.

This sounds a lot, sounds like a column, except it feels small compared to important issues like climate change, pandemic recovery, and seismic shifts in our politics.

But I get that people want to talk in a safe space and that works for them.

If they keep focusing on their Silicon Valley-ness, who the fuck cares?

I think if they get more creative and the most interesting stuff, just as on Twitter, is going in the areas with people of color talking.

That's what's building this thing, a lot of these discussions.

And I think they'll ignore it for Elon's on here, you know, Mark Zuckerberg's on here.

And that's not where it's going to be powerful.

Well, this is, this is, and it's also a little bit dangerous, or not dangerous, but so for example, they had the CEO of Robin Hood on, and there was a conspiracy theory that the CEO of Robin Hood was was coordinating with Citadel to like screw over a younger generation.

That's not true.

They just got, they just got killed in a, they just had a liquidity crisis.

Anyways, I think, and as I've said before, I think Robin Hood is a menace, but they had the CEO on interviewed by Elon Musk.

And I listened to bits of it that were circulated on the web.

And the reality is you got a lot more from the interview of the CEO of Robinhood when Andrew Ross Sorkin did it.

Because Andrew Ross Sorkin, it's like Andrew Ross Sorkin, as far as I know, does not do a great job of landing two projectiles concurrently on two barges, nor does Elon Musk do a great job of interviewing the CEO of Robinhood.

And it's all about, let's just find this kind of Silicon Valley celebrity thing.

But the interview was lousy.

I mean, there's a reason that, there's a reason we have journalists and people who interview other people.

So, but I got, you know, let me let me be clear.

I can't get over how much I'm hearing about Clubhouse.

If I were Andreessen Horowitz, I'd figure out a way to monetize that buzz and sell it now.

Cause I agree with you.

I think that's going to be.

Peach.

Remember Peach and Oi?

They were all like, I got a million of those.

So the question is, can they make it substantive in a way?

And can they make it safe, by the way?

Like lots of crazies are going to flood onto this platform and they're going to have like, let's have the, you know, the white supremacy hour.

How do you keep that out?

How do you, and that's, that's difficult.

And all the bullshit with like the, the, the, the, the ugliness between New York Times journalists and some Silicon Valley tides.

It's just like, it's just like, do we need another platform with that shit?

Yeah.

Do we need another platform spewing spewing digital exhaust in the form of rage and toxicity?

And I'm sure that's not what it's all about.

I hope they implement safety standards, but that's how that's kind of the stuff that makes makes the news.

Yeah, and that's celebrities.

Power is elsewhere.

It's power is elsewhere.

If they do it right, it could be great.

They should sell it because everyone's going to get into it.

But if they don't, it's going to be one of those, oh, remember Clubhouse.

You know, so I think that's the thing I would sell right away to Facebook.

But I will get missed.

They're smart.

They're talking about moving to subscription.

I think that's really smart.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

We'll see how it goes.

They have certainly created buzz.

And by the way, are we going on?

We're not going on Clubhouse.

I don't see a plus yet.

If they could show me a plus, I'm happy to.

Otherwise, no, thank you.

I don't feel like arguing with Silicon Valley dudes about anything.

All right, Scott, one more quick break.

We'll be back for predictions.

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Okay, Scott, prediction time.

Let's go.

Okay, so the best way to make the future or predict the future is to make it happen.

I'm a shareholder in Twitter and I've been advocating for this.

And

people say it's a ridiculous idea, but I think it's so obvious.

I think Twitter should and will acquire CNN.

I think Twitter.

I like this.

You keep saying this.

This is going to be a good question.

Well, first off, the moons have all lined up here.

AT ⁇ T took on too much debt acquiring Time Warner and DirecTV.

They need to shed assets.

They need to raise cash.

The best valuation in the M ⁇ A world is always one situation, and that is a corporate parent looking to orphan a failed acquisition.

So the price that CNN will get will be great for the bidder.

CNN does about a billion and EBITDA

Supposedly, they're going to get somewhere between $6 and $9 billion.

It is very difficult to shop a brand or a company like CNN without word getting out.

Word has gotten out.

CNN is on the block.

CNN can be purchased right now.

Can I ask you a pushback question?

Do you think Jason has talked about doing a subscription news service using CNN as the main brand?

He seemed rather excited about the idea.

Do you think they want to give it up for that?

And if they could do something interesting with it?

This is Jason Kylar, who's now running.

I think Jason has made some bold moves.

I think ATT's move around the Warner films

dispersing straight to your TV with HBO Max.

Yeah, that's settled down.

How's that?

Gangster smart move.

To be blunt, I don't think Jason's in charge.

I think John Stanke is going to get together with a CFO, run a quiet process, and if they can get $7 billion or more for CNN, it's gone.

Okay.

Interesting.

I don't know.

Well, I don't know.

I thought the idea of

leaning into CNN could be really, really truly with Jeff leaving in December.

Like, what is it then?

It's a subscription news service that's valuable.

The problem is AT ⁇ T.

Okay, so what do you have here?

CNN is worth...

seven, eight, maybe $10 billion to AT ⁇ T.

It's worth $20 billion to Twitter because Twitter right now has a $60 billion market cap.

Say they pick it up for $7.

We're talking about a 12 or 13% dilution.

And then all of a sudden, Twitter has the heft and the IP to become the dominant circulatory system for real-time news globally.

They start putting that amazing content of Michael Smirkanish, Christian Amenpour, and of course the most trusted journalist in the world right now.

The most trusted journalist in the world right now.

Who is it, Kara?

Anderson Cooper.

You're number two.

You're number two.

It's Anderson Cooper.

You figure out product innovation.

You use that as the anchor to start charging subscription.

You go vertical.

By the way, when did Spotify and Netflix stock absolutely begin their tear-up when they went vertical around Joe Rogan and I'm not sure?

I'm going to get on to your idea here.

I just want to know what the reaction is from the media people.

Like, what?

Like, Twitter running?

Who runs it?

They've got to get someone really fantastic.

Well, I think CNN, my sense of CNN, has a lot of outstanding management.

I think Zucker's been a decent steward.

You know, I know who I would want running it, but no one's, I'm not even going to say it because I'll just get mauled on Twitter.

If Twitter, think about this.

I'm so scared of Twitter.

Think about it.

I'm like a a dog that's been hit by a car and then it backed up and ran over me.

Sister, get in there.

Get in the fight.

I need a stick in a skirt.

If you're like a rocket movie,

I'd throw water in your face.

I'd cut your eye and I'd toss you right back in.

That's what I need to do.

Get back in there, Rock.

I need

stick in a skirt.

Okay, whatever.

You can reach me in Albuquerque.

Anyways,

anyways, but think about this.

If they, if they,

what an incredible, what an incredible risk.

They take a 12% dilution and they own CNN and they have vertical content.

They absolutely cement their position as the world's newsleader.

They can use that to create all sorts of subscription services around verticals and news, politics, finance.

They get amazing talent.

Their stock, they pay for this acquisition within 60 days of the acquisition.

This is like Amazon announcing they're buying Whole Foods, and within 48 hours, it's already paid for.

This makes so much sense.

You have a quarter of a market.

Is there any other buyer?

Because we got to get going, but was there any other buyer?

Of CNN?

Yeah.

Oh, gosh.

I think there's a bunch of them, including Comcast.

Comcast.

You could see.

That would run into trouble.

I don't know.

I mean, this sounds crazy, and I don't know because of antitrust, but I actually think Apple would be an interesting buyer of CNN.

They have the money to just say, no, we're putting it on Apple TV Plus.

You're our news group, and it's going behind a paywall.

Yeah.

I think there's actually quite a few potential.

CNN is a great bargain.

It's an incredible value right now.

Investment banker Scott Galloway is offering up CNN to the people.

Why don't we buy it, Scott?

You know, there's crazier things that have happening.

I've been contacted by some SPACs.

I'm not joking.

I've been contacted by some SPACs in the media space.

They're going to call some SPACs.

AT ⁇ T.

The problem is it's a pretty big call.

Bill Ackman.

Bill Ackman.

Karen and Scott want to run CNN.

Give it to us.

And I think our guy's Dan Loeb.

I like him.

He's salty.

Let's do Dan Loeb.

He is salty.

What a disaster that would be in a kind of a great way.

We'd just be like New York Coast botter for years.

It would be like.

Yeah, I don't know.

Okay.

I like it.

I like it.

I like it.

I volunteered to be head of the internet for the Biden administration.

You know, I was going to buy CNN and it would be great.

Bloomberg.

Oh, yeah.

That's another issue.

Sure.

I mean,

unfortunately, the bad thing here is that we're taking all of what I call,

I mean, CNN

is got its own partisanship and has its own bubble and has its own anger factor.

But they do things like fact-checking.

They have have responsible journalists.

And the problem is almost all of that stuff, fact-checking responsible journalism is moving behind a wall.

And all the stuff that is going to be consumed by people who don't have the money to pay for these things is going to be the crazy town shit.

Very bad.

You know, it's going to be Jeanette Pira or whatever name is.

Well, you know what?

They're getting sued.

That's not, they're acting like it's not a big deal.

Those lawsuits are a big deal for Fox.

Supposedly, if you listen to

legal scholars, those lawsuits have real teeth.

They do.

And that had even gotten to their COVID shit that they pulled.

You know what I mean?

Like, this is going to, I don't know.

I think I'd be worried if I was over there.

I was Rupert Murdoch a little bit.

I know he's gotten out of a lot of scraps, but this one's a scrap.

They really allowed that.

I don't think he's going to start worrying right now.

I think that guy has had such bigger reasons to worry.

And it's just amazing.

I think Rupert Murdoch, I think the most amazing thing about Rupert Murdoch and Mark Zuckerberg is not what they've accomplished.

It's not their incredible blue flame genius.

I think those guys sleep really well every night.

I think think they sleep really well every night.

I think they're like, oh, you know, people being pulled out of cars and hanged in India, misinformation that threatens the democracy of the greatest experiment ever, you know?

I think they just go straight into REM.

I don't, I don't think I'm a fucking wreck when people insult me on Twitter.

I know, you are.

Get back in there, Scott.

I'm a little bit more like that.

I'm like, yeah, whatever.

Come at me.

Anyway.

You mean a sociopath?

Yes, exactly.

All right, Scott.

Thank you.

That was a really good prediction.

I'm fascinated by this prediction.

Thank you so much for it.

And thank you for your teaching.

It's really, you're a very good teacher.

We forget that aspect of you.

But nonetheless, get back onto Twitter and start screaming at people.

All right.

Read us out.

Today's show was produced by Rebecca Sinanas, our sound engineer who doesn't get the credit he deserves is Ernie Indritat.

Thanks also to Hannah Rosen and Drew Burroughs.

Make sure you've subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts.

If you're an Android user, check us out on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.

If you like the show, please recommend it to a friend.

Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media.

We'll be back next week for a breakdown of all things tech and business: CNN and Twitter.

Twitter and CNN.

The future isn't what happens to us, the future is what we make of it.

Oh my God.

Yoda.

Thank you.

Great job, Master.

Thank you, Captain Kirk.

And with that, we're out.

This month on Explain It to Me, we're talking about all things wellness.

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