Disney+ pioneers at-home movie premieres and Facebook signs a lease in Manhattan, with guest host Stephanie Ruhle

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Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott is out this week gallivanting wherever the hell Scott Galloway gallivants.

And I'm joined by MSNBC anchor and NBC News senior business correspondent, Stephanie Ruhl.

Hi, Kara.

How you doing?

You just came off of a broadcast, right?

You're doing your TV thing because you have an outfit on it.

I just came off.

Well, yeah, but I'm wearing pajama pants, so not really an outfit on.

Oh, are you?

Oh, good.

I'm wearing pajamas, but I'm wearing a bra and a shirt, which means I'm going on TV, but I'm wearing pajama pants.

Yes.

Can you just give us a quick insight into what you're all doing?

Like, I can't tell who's home, who's in the studio.

What's the situation among the Yankees?

So I left New York in early March and I came down to the Promised Land, otherwise known as New Jersey, where both you and I are actual native Jersey girls.

Yes.

And I'm down here on the shore.

Inside my house.

The Shoah.

The Shoah.

Inside my house are my children and my mother.

My husband is back in New York working, but I'm actually next door in an apartment above my garage where my producer has been living for almost six months.

And this is where we do my show every week.

Wow.

So you have, I see you set up sort of like

noise canceling and everything else.

And what's in the background?

Do they do that at NBC or what do they do?

Yes.

NBC came and we've got a full studio here.

And until two days ago, you would have thought we were 100% in New York.

Storms.

And then the hurricane.

and storms.

We lost power for two days.

I had myself at Home Depot yesterday morning at 5.45 a.m.

Yeah.

Where I was there for the shipment of generators.

And then the thing about generators is it's like the most Marie Antoinette let-the-meat cake thing ever because they're so unbelievably loud.

You have an entire street of darkness and then your house, which is like

with your entire neighborhood's iPads and phones plugged into one generator.

Do you think Anderson Cooper has this problem?

Do you think he does?

No, I do not.

Do they go in?

Anderson Cooper probably has a wind machine.

Probably in his house.

But different people, like I know, I was talking to Poppy Harlow.

She was, she goes into Hudson Yards where no people are, she says, as before.

But

what is the plan for the networks?

You're going to go in or never go into 30 Rock again?

I'm actually going to 30 Rock tomorrow because I'm doing my show there and then I'm interviewing Jamie Diamond.

So I have to be in New York.

So some people are in New York, but they're basically just trying to risk reduce as much as possible.

But it's complicated.

My kids go back to school in a few weeks and right now, technically, their schools are open.

And I'm trying to figure out what to do.

Because what happens at three o'clock when school's over?

Yeah.

It's great if school can be open and they can be safe, but then you don't have any activities.

You don't have any sports.

You're going to sit in your house and what, play video games for 100 hours?

So I don't know what's going to happen.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's very, it's a really interesting thing of how everyone's going to be returning, but you won't be in regular studios where there's makeup and everything else for a long, long time, right?

Correct.

I don't believe so.

You don't believe it.

But I'll tell you, I think it's been a huge positive.

I mean, I was on nightly news yesterday with my curly hair all jammed up on my head and a pair of glasses.

And if it had been two years ago, you know, you feel like you're in a scene out of the movie Knocked Up where they're like to,

well, just tighten it up.

Well, how do you feel about that hair right now?

A little too much.

Nobody's asking if your hair is a little too messy or a little too much.

They're just happier on TV.

Oh, very good to know.

This is, see, I'd like to know the scenes from real anchor people because, you know, again, Anderson or Brian Wilmot's not going to tell me the truth about anything.

I just, I can't tell where they are.

And I'm trying to figure it out.

I don't feel that, you know, if my hair doesn't look the way it normally does, or God forbid I have a ponytail in, I don't fear that the wrath is coming of a, oh, you have a new look.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Except for my mother, which

will discuss it.

And mine.

And mine.

Yeah, and mine.

All right.

So let's get into, so there's so much going on, and we're going to be talking about Disney Plus in a minute, speaking of things for your kids to do.

But a couple of things.

Let's see, where should we start?

Instagram launched Reels, its short video app, competitor TikTok, right as TikTok's in distress.

This is a complete lift.

I have seen it, and it is the most lifty lift I've ever seen.

How do you look at that

happening?

I mean, when you say lift, I think you mean copycat, right?

Exactly.

Like beyond

even one fresh thing.

100%.

But the question is, are they allowed to do it?

If they're allowed to do it, well, then sure, they're going to go for it and they're going to scrape as much business as they possibly can, more power to them.

It's, does the government wake up or does TikTok wake up and say this technology should be patented?

And if they didn't, oh, well, I mean, look what happened to Tom Shoes, right?

Tom Shoes was the first one to have this amazing idea.

You buy these shoes and then we're going to donate a pair of somewhere.

Oh my gosh, that's incredible.

I got a zillion of those for my kids when they were born.

And then every other socially conscious business woke up and said, I'm going to do that too.

And then they stole that business.

Like,

it is what I do.

I want to talk about how you feel about it because i mean here is facebook not making heat they do it from snapchat they borrow it do you do you think it should be allowed or should you just mock them for doing it or do you think that's just my old microsoft behavior from back in the day

I take issue less with them lifting this and copycatting than I do with them crushing small businesses and not allowing those technologies to thrive.

Right.

Right.

But if they want to copy a business, like, hello, like, it's a free market system.

Go for it.

All right.

Okay.

What do you think?

I think it shows lack of product innovation forever.

I think it shows that this is a company that all they do is

pillage and land grab and neutralize.

And I just don't, I don't, I think it's part of the same pattern that you have an issue with.

And so when you don't see fresh innovation from companies, it really is depressing.

to think.

Yes, but then you know what?

Then they're going to get a nasty write-up from you.

A fast company is going to say they're not cool and innovative.

But if they win business and make money out of it, they don't care.

Yeah, I know.

I know.

I get it.

I just feel like them putting themselves up as innovators is irritating.

Anyway, speaking of which, Satya Nadella is the CEO of Microsoft.

Both you and I know him.

He's wading deeper into the U.S.-China trade wars by doing the deal with TikTok.

Wall Street Journal had a pretty good article about this, how he sort of has, like Tim Cook, has sort of had a relationship with China and one with the Trump administration.

What do you think this is?

Is he going to go into Jeff Bezos' territory here?

Because TikTok's not a favored app of the president.

You know, I think it's interesting, or it's somewhat of a positive when you see the likes of a Satya Nadella or a Tim Cook who are very, very thoughtful leaders.

And I don't see them as just,

you know, monsters glomming onto any business they can and kissing up to Trump when they, you know, I mean, yes, that letter that they wrote was certainly a little tushy-smoochy.

Right.

But I think Satya Nadella is as good as it gets.

And I don't think it's a bad thing to have him in this mix.

Right.

And do you think?

I think Asatia Nadella over a Peter Thiel any day, wouldn't you?

Yes, 100%.

And it'll be interesting to see if they can get this deal done by the 15th.

As someone who has done deals and knows about this, what do you imagine?

They have till September 15th to come to a price, to come to all kinds of things.

I know they have bankers and lawyers.

Can they do a deal this quickly and one that Byte Dance will accept?

They can do a deal.

Listen, any deal can happen quickly.

Look what happened in the financial crisis.

You know, Bear Stearns, Countrywide, Lehman Brothers.

You know, with enough motivation and a gun to the back of your head and money, you can do anything.

Right.

The question is, can you satisfy all parties?

And that includes the Trump administration who's saying, oh, by the way, we'd like to get a cut of this.

Right.

Which they're not going to get.

That is not

happening.

Yes, but guess what?

I mean, the thing is, Kara, the American people are never actually going to know if the government got a piece of the TikTok deal.

But the president says it on the podium, and it feeds into this whole narrative that works for him that now you've got a businessman who's worried about the U.S.

economy and the government not getting taken advantage of and the likes of my mother and potentially yours buy into that.

I'm going to disagree.

I think people are not paying attention to this at all and they're paying attention to school openings, which I think are worrying a lot of people as they begin to open or close.

Now most of this, many big school operations have decided not to shutter Chicago, DC, Los Angeles.

New York is open.

I think it's going to close.

Most people do.

Nobody's really listening and you see these sort of horror stories from Georgia and other places where they're being forced to go to school.

How do you think this is going to shake out?

I think this has much more impact, parents and teachers, and everybody else.

A hundred percent.

I mean, you're seeing schools reopen in some part under the pressure that if they don't, they are going to lose funding from this president.

But remember, just because they open doesn't mean they're going to stay open.

Take New York, for example.

It's not just that schools are going to open.

Well, people are going to be taking the subway, they're going to be taking buses.

You know, there's so many more complications.

The schools aren't in a bubble like the NBA down in Orlando.

I wish we were putting the kind of resources and support to schools, which is the foundation for everything, that we are to totally pimped out NFL stadiums or what we're doing for the NBA.

But I would make one other point.

Just yesterday, I read about a school in Ohio and they were super proud of the kids, the teenagers, because they protested and they fought back and they're going to have sports this season.

Well, I'm like, and it was funny because the report I was hearing, they were applauding these kids for standing up and speaking out.

Well, hold on a second.

My kids would love nothing more than to go back to their sports and go back to their lives.

We're not having school or sports to punish our kids.

We're in a health crisis.

And people seem to forget that.

Yeah.

No, I don't think they forget.

As soon as they start to get really serious COVID outbreaks, which they're going to, I'm really,

my kids' school is still on, but I can't imagine it will stay on.

I want to ask you, what do you think about Facebook removing a post that Donald Trump put up saying that uh kid young kids don't get coronavirus I thought it was exactly the right thing to do it's misinformation that's what they should should have been doing before they should have been doing it for a long time this is they have they have laid out a stake to claim to be doing something about this and they did so that's how I feel about that they're doing their job

that the president continues to say things like this though I don't know what to say about that there's nothing we can do about that So I think it's up to companies like Facebook and other organizations, whether it's you saying this is untrue, the minute he says it.

I wouldn't air it at all,

but they, you know, some of the TV stations do.

It's on Twitter.

I'd take it down when he says it.

But do you think the misinformation he spreads about Corona will actually have a negative impact for him?

And what I mean by that is the president can say, oh, the caravan from Mexico is filled with criminals and drug dealers.

And people might believe.

believe that because they're never going to see the caravan.

But when he continues to lie about the impact of coronavirus, how do you lie to a country where somebody's getting sick every minute, somebody's dying every 80 seconds?

Well, I agree with you.

I agree with you.

But first, we're going to move on to the big story.

That's going to be a big story later.

We're going to talk about that issue around Facebook and also the recovery of New York.

First big story.

Disney Plus will be launching their live-action movie, Mulan, in September.

Speaking of things for your kids to do, the additional $30 on top of the subscription price for the streaming platform.

It'll be available in all major markets in the world, bypassing rigid rules that usually require a movie to stay in theaters for 75 days.

Bob Chapik, Disney's CEO, called this type of release a one-off and that its upcoming releases are slated to go to theaters.

But he added the style of the release will be an interesting experiment for future models of the release.

The film rental will not appear on Apple TV or Amazon video.

And Disney had a tough week this week.

Stephanie, I mean, this is $30.

A lot of people say you'd spend double or triple that going to the movies.

So how do you look at this, this shift by Disney?

They have to to do it.

I think this pivot is going to work, right?

Again, it's easy for someone in my position to say, oh, 30 bucks isn't a lot of money.

Spend it.

But A, compared to going to the movies, and B, parents have kids at home for an unlimited amount of time.

The amount of screen time they're getting watching the same YouTube garbage endlessly is crushing parents.

So, no, I think this is a good move.

Yes, he's going to say this is a one-off because he doesn't want to send AMC and other movie theaters chains jumping off a bridge.

But given what's happened to the business, that theme parks have been closed this long, yeah, it's a good move.

What do you think?

I think it's a good move.

I think it's going to, they're going to do it for all the releases.

And the thing is, they have to have a platform.

Anyone who, any of these studios, have to have platforms.

So they're going to have to go hot, hat in hand to the platforms.

Now, Disney has its Disney Plus.

Luckily, they have introduced that.

I think others are going to have a bigger problem.

Say, they've moved like the James Bond movies, the Top Gun, all the big movies further and further down.

And I think they can't.

I mean, the pipeline problem is real.

Now they're not really making movies either.

So they won't necessarily, but they've lost it.

Like the numbers for Disney were really, you know, you had Bob Iger going out on a big like clap, clap, clap and now devastated, I think.

For Bob Iger, the timing couldn't have been better in terms of, I mean, he is.

He's still there.

He's still there, though.

Yes, but in terms of the day-to-day stress and problems that he faces.

Yes, all these places are going to need a platform.

But right now, if you've got good content, people are going to find it wherever it is.

The bigger issue is that they're not making any movies right now and what happens in the foreseeable future for that whole industry.

Right, absolutely.

Now, Amazon and Apple don't have the same big-budget theater releases that Disney does.

Do you think it attracts a lot of people to the platform to sign up just to see it?

Yes, because it's Disney.

But if it were less than Disney, no.

But Disney is such a brand marquee name, especially with a young audience, especially with parents who are concerned with our kids who are on YouTube kids that are delving down into a twisted, oh, it just started as a cupcake video.

And the next thing you know, God only knows what you're watching.

But Disney is a trusted brand, and I think parents are going to buy into it in a heartbeat.

Well, there's other movies, Wonder Woman.

There's some other ones that were supposed to come out.

Would you advise, if you were talking to these theaters, just to put them out and get as much money as they can or hold on to them?

Put them out.

Listen, we have no idea what's going to come in the future.

We really, really don't.

Put it out right now.

And then, guess what?

If it's a movie like Wonder Woman, you could end up putting it out in the theater six months from now.

Because if I liked Wonder Woman on TV, I'm sure as you know what, gonna love it on the big screen.

Right.

So you would put them all out.

You just say, this is the way it is without

and not charge them one-ups.

Get the money when I can right now, put them out, and then visit what I'm going to do in six months and six months.

And $30 is, you think, a reasonable thing for most people, for a lot of people.

Not everybody, obviously.

I think if you consider what it costs going to the movies.

yes so it's what 15 tickets now per person and and and snacks snacks and stuff like that so you think this is it what does disney do stephanie from your perspective i mean they are really like they're they are they're exposed in so many ways if you're running a major entertainment company like this what is your option just to sit and what sit it out wait what kara think about the theme park have you ever been to disney world yeah yes unfortunately yes okay i went with my i i was refusing to take my kids there ever only because I said if I go once They're gonna want to go a zillion times They're gonna hate every nature-loving vacation that I take them on but I went once It's so so expensive yet when I was there every hotel is booked up.

You know, it's hours and hours of lines to get on the rides.

Yep.

I this I don't even think we can put into words how economically crippling this is for those kind of businesses.

And then people keep saying, oh my gosh, the economy is doing so well.

It's because they're looking at a small sliver of monster businesses.

But if you're a company like Disney, this is, I don't know how to describe it anyway besides paralyzing.

Paralyzing, absolutely.

Except if you're a big retailer like Walmart, which is seeing an uptick of sales because they were in the essential area.

You talked about that before.

But most retail businesses are getting killed.

It's really kind of amazing how many we still, the economic impact of this is still not.

I actually think we're missing this whole section in the middle where we're talking about the 30 million people on unemployment.

And all the people say, well,

they don't want to go back to work.

I'd love to know who are these businesses out there desperate to hire people who won't go back to work.

We're forgetting all of these American dreams in the middle, right?

Where you and I both grew up.

Think about your downtown, your dance studio, your gym, your barbershop, your restaurant.

Those businesses are barely staying alive right now and they probably won't be open by the end of the year.

And there's not really a program for them and we're not thinking about it and talking about it.

And those jobs really are American Dream jobs.

I know we keep thinking like, oh, American Dream is if you're Tim Cook.

It's not.

When I was growing up, American Dream was like my mom's friend whose husband was an accountant and she owned like a women's dress shop in town.

Who do you know who owns a women's boutique, a bridal store?

They don't exist.

And if they do, they're going under.

They're going under.

Absolutely.

This has repercussions, I think, that are going to be.

Whoever takes over in November is going to have a rather large rob, and it's going to be problematic.

Anyway, we're going to go to a quick break and come back to talk about Facebook making moves in New York City.

Speaking of returns of cities and a listener mail question for a question you asked, Stephanie.

We'll be back after this.

Hello, Daisy speaking.

Hello, Daisy.

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And we are back here with MSNBC anchor and NBC News senior business correspondent Stephanie Ruhl filling in for Scott and doing an able job of it.

This week, Facebook signed a lease for a huge new office in Midtown Manhattan.

Let's talk about what this means for the future of the headquarters post-COVID-19 and economic recovery in New York.

Facebook has told employees they can work from home through the pandemic and possibly permanently.

They have said that up to half of their employees will be working from home within 10 years.

This is a move Facebook was already moving towards.

The new Facebook office, though, in New York could bring up to 8,500 new workers to New York.

Google, Apple, and Amazon obviously have enormous headquarters in Manhattan.

So Stephanie, how does New York come back?

I'm bringing my kid there to go to NYU if it stays open.

Now I supposedly going to be checked at the bridges and tunnels, so that's unclear from Bill de Blasio.

How does New York return?

Because this is an area that was already suffering from storefronts.

You know, there was lots of stories about areas and stuff like that.

So what happens to New York, which is sort of the world city?

Kara, this is going to be devastating.

I think this is worse for New York than most other cities.

Most other cities, when you think about kind of secondary cities, the Phillies, the Baltimores of the world, they weren't as dependent on sales tax from retail, from theater, from restaurants.

That wasn't what they were about.

That's the heart and soul of New York, right?

So, when you keep hearing, well, restaurants just need to pivot to drive-through and take out, good luck.

That's never going to happen in New York, where restaurants, their number one overhead cost is their rent, right?

I'm me, I'm not going to go pick up takeout if I'm getting a $15 cocktail in a plastic cup and a $32 entree.

So cities like New York are, to me, are going to be hurt for a really long period of time.

Do I think it's permanently devastating?

No, New York always comes back.

But for a while, this is going to be brutal.

So if Facebook wants to sign a big giant lease and pay a whole lot of money to our city, come on over, Mark Zuckerberg.

But Kara, I also thought Amazon, when they were originally going to bring their second headquarters to New York, I didn't think that was a bad idea.

The bad idea was that they, in my opinion, did that complete baloney beauty pageant, asking all those cities to give them a gazillion dollars worth of free demographic data, which Amazon then took and kept all that data.

And then they ended up picking the prettiest girl in school anyway, New York City.

That was the BS around it.

But I thought Amazon should have come.

Well, one of the things was the gimme.

I think that was

around all the cities.

They were going to do it anyway.

And Scott, you know, and I were talking about this sort of as a ridiculous circus.

But why, why keep a track?

Why would Facebook do this now from your perspective?

Or why would a big company be signing big new leases in New York City?

Is it just this is get while the getting is good?

It's cheaper prices.

It's a good time just to have it.

We want to go there anyway.

I think traditionally, one of the reasons you would see all sorts of businesses that didn't need to come to New York come to New York for the sad, pathetic reason of our work ethic.

People in New York, and it was led originally by the banking industry, but it's across the board.

It's the only city in the United States where it's completely normal to work 80 hours a week.

I remember when I was in college, that was the first time I started dating like a young guy who was an investment banker.

And I was 100% sure he must have been married or a drug dealer.

Because how the hell would anybody be like, oh, it's a Tuesday and I'm at work at 3 a.m.

Oh, it's a Sunday and I'm going to work at 8 a.m.

And I'm like, what's the deal?

But when all of these companies come to New York, they are hiring people who say, oh, I think it's normal to work like an animal.

Right.

So how do you get back to that in New York?

Because I think, you know, it's unusually quiet from people who tell me my mom is there and stuff like that.

How do you return in that way?

And how do you get people back to that pace?

And what do you have to do?

Look, Bill DeBasio is leaving when?

How long is he mayor until?

I know.

Yeah.

The sigh of a New Yorker.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So how do you get that back?

I mean, how do you move?

I mean, no, it's really, I think it's a great question because I don't know if you get the genie back in the bottle.

When this thing first started, I remember even COVID, I mean, I remember having a conversation with Mike Bloomberg.

And Mike Bloomberg has done a ton as far as research and contact tracing, but even Mike was like, people aren't going to leave New York.

People aren't going to not send their kids to school.

Like, we're New Yorkers.

But suddenly.

Here we are.

Here I am in New Jersey wishing that I didn't own my house in New York because I'd really like to stay here.

And I think you have all sorts of people who spent their, the last 30 years of their career eating at Michael's or the Four Seasons for Lunch.

And And now they've been home for a while.

And with the exception of people who hate their spouses and don't want to be home, I think they really like their new lifestyle.

So you think there's been a lot of stories in the times and like that people moving out.

Do you think this is this has happened before this Exodus 9-11, there was the banking crisis, people move in and out of this city and then always seem to come back.

You really want to live at the Jersey Shore.

So that's the thing where like, I don't know if I buy it because

just in the last couple of years when I bought my house in New York City, I remember just before before we bought it, like in the final throes of it, I was like, I can't believe I'm spending this amount of money for a place that doesn't even have a decent bathtub.

And I remember looking at real estate prices in Greenwich, Connecticut, and saying, oh my God, I could live like the Queen of England in Greenwich.

But you could, they were giving away houses in Greenwich and Westport.

People going, how much do I have to spend for landscaping?

I don't need this.

And suddenly, when you're trapped at home with COVID, you're saying, I do want space.

So this all depends on how long this lasts.

And what about people who can't afford a house in Greenwich, Connecticut?

I mean, what happens to the people who live?

This is the most important and most devastating thing.

Okay.

If you were, right, we're all having this

conversation.

How do we feel about our kids and what are they going to do after school?

What are their after-school activities?

Give me a break.

Cara, if you or I were a single mom living in the South Bronx and we lived in a building with no Wi-Fi, with no air conditioning, and there were no camps, schools, basketball courts, or parks to go to, that's a torture.

And that's an entire generation we're going to lose.

And the problem is the biggest decision makers right now are people who aren't suffering personally.

I don't mean health-wise.

I mean lifestyle-wise from the consequences of COVID.

I think it's crushing.

So it's just going to be Facebook and that's it in New York City.

No, I think it's a positive that Facebook is coming.

We definitely need it.

And I think people are going to come back.

But I do think things are going to change for a while.

But the tech companies have sort of led the way.

We're going to get to a reader question, listener question in a minute, but the tech companies led the way in work from home.

Stay at home.

This is the new way.

Do you think it is the new way?

I don't, because I think there's some level of baloney there.

Like, listen, it's awesome to work from home, right?

I love that I don't have to commute, all that nonsense.

But people who say your productivity, or at least for me, is just as high working from home, it's not, right?

We're getting by, but we aren't, at least me, we're not coming up with great collaborations.

We don't have unbelievable new products or projects.

You're disconnected.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I've always worked from home, Stephanie, so here I am.

And I never left the city, just so you know, I'm still sticking to cities.

Kara Swisher is not moving to the country in any way.

Well, you can come to the Jersey Shore anytime.

I've been to the Jersey Shore.

Maybe.

I will.

We will.

We'll drive up when things are clear.

Me and me and a bunch of ladies will drive up and visit you.

Okay, earlier in the week, Stephanie, you asked listeners to send us what they thought their their most anxious moments are at this moment.

So here's one from Sean Murphy.

You've got, you've got, I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman.

You've got mail.

Hey, Squish, Rule, MurphDog from Florida calling here.

You were asking about what is the biggest concern I am dealing with the economy going forward.

I have the pleasure to help folks navigate through the unemployment process through one state, and I am very concerned.

It also makes me realize just the income inequality gap is going to further widen.

Some of these folks,

I just don't see how the economy recovers.

I don't see how people get back up on their feet.

I don't see how jobs are coming back and people are still able to make the same earnings they were previously.

Obviously, that's going to then impact the housing market.

While the housing market currently is hot, I don't see that continuing.

At a certain price point and above, yes, the housing market will always be hot simply because the income inequality gap allows it to be.

But that certain number and below, I think that number is going to decrease drastically and other people simply aren't going to be able to afford housing.

And I just wanted to get your thoughts.

Thanks, ladies.

Bye-bye.

First of all,

it is, but first of all, we need to thank MurphDog.

If you heard what he said in the beginning, he helps people in the state of Florida navigate the unemployment system.

Florida is one of the most difficult states to get unemployment.

It's like the system was designed for people not to be able to get the benefits.

So we should, A, thank him for doing that work.

All of his fears, I think, are real.

And I even think this hot housing market, I don't get it.

Like, I don't understand all these people that have all this money to buy houses.

I live a really comfortable life.

And I don't know about you, Kara, but I'm in money saving mode right now.

I am not in a, let me go out there and spend.

But to his point, I don't see all these jobs coming back.

Right?

You've got

tens of thousands of businesses closing every day, and especially people that work in the service industry and hospitality.

I think we are going to face a huge crisis, and all the inequality vulnerabilities that existed before COVID are more pronounced now.

So maybe, just maybe, and maybe I'm a stupid romantic optimist, this will be a true call to action that we need a jobs program, an infrastructure program, maybe truly a year of national service.

You have a son going to college.

Kara, right now, if he could spend the year doing some sort of service project rather than going to school, would you send him?

Absolutely.

100%.

I felt sick paying for college.

It kind of seemed silly.

And then at the same time,

I was watching the other day and I was thinking jobs.

is like, what are people going to do when they become truly desperate?

And this whole thing around Congress,

you know, not deciding on any of this stuff and going back and forth and back and forth is really.

really untoward.

It's like not thinking of the body politic as a whole, which has been so fractured.

And again, I think the partisanship has gotten so bad.

It's really hard to imagine

where you have a come together moment where everybody can stop, put their fists down for a second and start to.

But, you know, we've come back.

Look, we've come back from the Civil War.

We've come back from all kinds of fights that go on through the Nixon administration, et cetera, et cetera, McCarthyism.

It's just like, what is it?

What does, what's the thing that shifts everybody back except pure exhaustion?

But then let this be a moment to actually create a program.

We've talked about things like national service before.

Yeah.

But now there's a catalyst that could say, let's actually do this.

We have thousands of 18-year-olds going to college, 22-year-olds getting out of college.

What if we actually sent them across the country to try to help, especially young kids, get better and smarter?

We have a huge void in education.

They could work on community projects.

Right.

All right.

What about, what would you do right now to, right now, if you were Congress

and the president to stop the widening of the income inequality, the one thing.

So national service, what else?

Right now, I would focus all the energy I have as far as COVID testing and jobs to reopening schools safely.

Okay, but put money into the schools, not just

like No, no, no.

No, so the teachers union has said in order to reconfigure schools and do it safely, it would take something like $118 billion.

Right.

Thus far, the federal government has earmarked 13 billion.

So we're about 100 billion short.

Focus on getting schools open safely.

Right.

Okay.

And child care goes along with that, by the way.

Right.

When we talk about childcare in the country, we act, and it is, oh, it's kids zero to five.

No, it's not.

What happens if you, what happens to you, right?

I have a seven-year-old.

So great.

Let's say I was in a position that I didn't have, you know, private child care.

What would happen while my husband and I are at work all day and school's over at 2.30?

Right.

We need an actual,

we need something to actually support the kids in this country.

If you want social and economic mobility, it starts with good education.

So money, that's a very good thing.

Now, speaking of real estate, is it a good time for people to invest in real estate?

I can't sell my house.

I'm working at one.

I had a house I bought and I was going to sell this one.

I can't.

So I'm sort of working here.

So it works fine because I work here and have a studio.

But what, but I can't sell it.

I'd like to sell it.

It makes me worried.

What, what, what, what, is it a good time to invest in real estate or just listen?

Interest rates are really, really low.

So if people can afford to buy real estate, you are.

Where I live, you're seeing a lot of people take money out of the stock market because they think it's irrationally high and put it in real estate.

But things could turn on a dime.

Like, I happen to think we're headed for a worse economy than we're seeing just yet, right?

Like we're saying, oh, it's a free market system.

The Fed has done so much to keep pumping the system up.

We're doing a ton to rescue corporations and certain industries.

But I think we're going to see the bottom fallout, especially for people who are at the bottom or the middle of our economy.

And so is it a good time to invest in real estate?

I don't know.

I would say if you can afford to buy a home,

it's a good time to buy a home.

The people who are really really getting screwed are people who are renting.

Right, renting so that they should get lower rates.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Get lower rates in major cities, which is an opportunity for people too at the same time.

It's also an opportunity to buy Kara Swisher's home.

You can go look at it online right now.

I took it off the market.

I refinanced it, put a mortgage on it.

I'm going to deduct it.

And that's it.

I'm just going to hopefully wait it out.

Wait it out.

Wait it out.

That's Kara Swisher's policy on everything.

I'm a waiter outer, Stephanie.

All right.

One more quick break.

We'll be back for predictions.

Stephanie's going to do a prediction and it's going to be, it's going to knock Scott out of the prediction market.

Trip Planner by Expedia.

You were made to outdo your holiday,

your hammocking,

and your pooling.

We were made to help organize the competition.

Expedia.

Made to travel.

Okay, Stephanie, this is usually Scott's thing, but you're in the hot seat.

I asked you to do a prediction.

What is it?

And what do you think we can expect, you know, from the news cycle in months soon?

I'm going to add an extra one on.

So what is your prediction?

And then what do you think is going to happen next?

I think that in the next few months, President Trump is going to reveal himself.

His borderline jihad against mail-in voting is going to expose that the president is basically saying, the more people who are allowed to vote, the less likely it is that I will win.

And I think the thing that to me is the most revealing recently are the amount of people that are supporting that.

Okay, there was an article I read yesterday with the likes of Steve Schwartzman from Blackstone, one of the best investors out there, the founder of New Balance, Jim Dolan from MSG, actually giving to Republican organizations that are continuing to block mail-in voting.

To me, this is the most modern example of simply trying to stop people from voting, Kara.

That to me doesn't feel partisan.

It feels un-American.

And if highly educated people are putting that much money and support into blocking people from voting, well, then I feel like they're revealing themselves that they don't care about the country being better, smarter, or more fair.

So my prediction is, buckle up.

The things that you're going to see in the next 89 days, the unorthodox things that are going to keep people from exercising their right to vote is like nothing we've ever seen.

Will it work?

I'm thinking.

I think if we don't pay attention to it, it will.

But if we pay attention to this kind of behavior, then that should spark every person in the country to wake up and say, hold on.

This isn't about politics.

This is about democracy.

And I'm going to drag my ass out of bed.

And if I have to wait in line all day on this one particular election in the rain and the snow and the sleet, I'm going to go out and do it.

So pay attention to every single thing that happens in the next 89 days.

All right.

That's an excellent prediction.

And so news cycle is crazy, crazy news cycle, not between Beirut, which was a horrible, horrible disaster.

And it's not even our top story.

Yeah, not even our top story.

And so many others.

Is there any story you think has got, you know, whatever interview Trump does, of course, turns into disaster?

Let me ask you one last question.

Can I ask you this?

What did you think about Jonathan Swan's interview with the president?

I thought it was excellent.

I thought it was a good bookend to Chris Wallace's.

I think it was a different type of interview, although I think they were the same.

They revealed the same thing.

I think Chris Wallace was more polite and yet sort of had the same effect.

I think Jonathan Swan sort of was like a lot of reporters.

It's like, what are you saying?

So I thought it was very effective in many ways.

At the same time, I don't,

you know, it doesn't seem to stick.

This guy can make 50 gaps and it seems to just go to the next thing.

Why do you think that's the thing?

Because he's so present.

He's so present all the time.

That's why, because he never stops talking to us.

Why do you think he did the interview?

I mean, a year ago, Jonathan Swan did an equally devastating interview, in my opinion, with Jared Kushner.

Why would Trump go back for more?

I don't know.

I don't know what the decision making is.

Maybe they feel like they can, I can do it.

I think he probably has a lot of control over this.

And he's like, I can take him.

I can take him.

Why do people keep talking to me?

I don't know.

I don't know.

I can take.

I can, why did they talk to you, Stephanie?

I mean, how would you conduct that interview with President Trump?

I I think Jonathan was masterful.

I mean, honestly, I think Biden or whatever anti-Trump group should be sending Jonathan Swan a honey-baked ham or a donation to his favorite charity

because they just got, you know, free advertising for the next meeting.

I mean, it was, but the thing that was so great about it was that it was this common sense interview where he wasn't ticking through, but I got to get to my 11th question.

Every time the president would say something that didn't make sense, Jonathan was finally that person that we all are in front of our TV, going, I'm sorry, what?

Right.

And I just thought it was awesome.

Yeah, I thought it, but I thought Chris Wallace's work too by the silence.

And he actually, every now and then, had a few digs, they counted backwards and things like that.

I think what's really, it was like as if it was a White House press conference with one person he couldn't avoid.

You know, he calls on the next person when

Yamichi L.

Cinder or someone else really gets him.

He moves on.

He couldn't move on.

and he kind of wanted to have the conversation.

It was, it was a weird dynamic, and the graphs that he kept throwing papers around was odd.

But I, my issue is, I don't know if it matters.

Okay, this is what I want you to answer because it matters to this universe of people who already think a certain thing.

I know my mom didn't see that interview, did yours?

Yes, I made her watch it.

Yes, yes.

And what did she say?

Well, he's an idiot.

But I like his policies.

No, just like, well, everyone knows he's an idiot.

It's like the same thing with the sex stuff.

Everyone knows

he's a horrible sexual harasser.

Like, okay.

Why do you think we forgive him for it?

I don't think they forgive him.

They just are like, I already know that about my shitty husband kind of thing.

You know what I mean?

That's what I think it is.

You know, I already know that.

Okay, but hold on.

A lot of people, a lot of women would say, I already know that about my shitty husband, but he's my shitty husband and he's a father of my kids.

Now they have the chance to say, oh, I can finally kick that shitty husband out and I still get to keep my house and I get to have a different husband.

Why are they going to vote for him again?

I don't know.

I don't know if my mother is.

I don't know.

We'll have to see.

We'll have to find out.

I should stand over her and find out.

I don't know.

I don't know, Stephanie.

I don't know.

We'll see.

I just do, I think the constant repetition ultimately does count, but we'll see if that's

if that's that has any stinging points.

So, thank you so much for doing this this week.

I hope you had a good time.

You're excellent.

We're going to have you come back with Scott.

Scott was all mad again yesterday about the whole thing.

And of course, people are going to be able to do it.

Was he mad because his bald head got sunburned on vacation?

Wherever he is.

I don't know where he is.

I don't even know.

He's always in a digs.

He's in Montana or Florida or anything else.

He's glamorous.

He's a glamorous guy, and we really appreciate it.

And you will be back to talk to both of us, I hope.

Yes.

Thank you.

Next week, Squawk Box's Andrew Ross Sorkin will be filling in for Scott.

Any advice for him, Stephanie?

Do his homework.

Do his homework.

Yeah, you're serious.

You know, I'm a huge Andrew fan.

Yeah.

I can't wait to to listen.

I'm definitely going to listen.

I mean, Andrew's the best, the best, the best.

Andrew is.

Andrew himself has to do some combat some mornings on Squawkbox.

Oh, I know.

I didn't invite that guy.

Oh, I get that.

There you go.

That guy.

I've had some tangles with that guy, too, but Andrew handles it rather well.

I'd have popped him one.

I would have popped him one well, many years ago.

Anyway, by the way, this week we did our first live stream episode, speaking of Scott, of Pivot School.

It was a major success.

We had thousands of people there.

You can get tickets for next week's show at pivotschool.com.

We have amazing people coming up like Google Sundar Pachai, Dharakoshahi of Uber, all kinds of people.

We had Vanessa Papas from TikTok last week.

You can watch it in a couple of weeks too.

Our next episode will be about a new generation of innovators.

If you already have tickets and want to be part of the show, please send us a video question about innovation spurred by COVID-19.

Email it to schooled at boxmedia.com.

Hold on.

Are you going to have any mask innovators?

You know, I just read this morning it's predicted to be a nine billion dollar industry.

Cloth masks.

And look at Etsy's stock.

Yeah.

Shooting up.

It is because of all these because all these masks.

That's a great idea.

We in fact are giving away masks from a mask innovator.

One has a jungle cat on it and one has a dog on it.

We're very excited about our masks from Emerging Heroes.

Anyway, thank you for that suggestion, Stephanie.

Anyway, today's show was produced by Rebecca Sinanis.

Fernando Fanete engineered this episode.

Erica Anderson is Pivot's executive producer.

Thanks again to Stephanie Ruhl for co-hosting with me this week, one of the badass women I know and adore.

Make sure you subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, or you're an Android user, check us out on Spotify or frankly, wherever you listen to podcasts.

If you like the show, please recommend it to a friend.

Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media.

We'll be back next week with Andrew Ross Sorkin co-hosting for two days, our breakdown of all things tech and business.