Previewing the Big Four's antitrust appearance, Twitter bans QAnon, and prediction on Tesla buying up companies

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Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

And I'm Scott Galloway.

What if I said some days I'm Scott Galloway?

What would you do?

What would be your reaction?

Gosh,

that's a thought.

That's a mind fuck.

It's called a mind fuck.

That's a thought.

I would like, it would be sort of interesting to switch identities with you for like, I wouldn't want to do it for a day.

I would do it for an hour.

All right.

Well, maybe we'll do it on another show.

I just want to start.

I would just start.

All I would do is basically text every big tech person.

I was just texting with Angela Merkel's people.

But anyway, in any case, I do.

I do text a lot of big tech.

Listen, I get them as guests.

So just don't even complain.

Don't complain.

You definitely have pull-around guests.

I land our guests.

So just be happy that I could text these people.

Listen, anyway, so here's a couple of things.

Listen to me.

There's a couple of things we have to talk about.

One, there's so much news.

There's news all over the frameplace, and Trump is talking about his cognitive tests still endlessly.

So let's start on a couple of things, just a couple of smaller items, which is that they're, and they're big.

The House ruled this week that federal employees can't have TikTok on their phones as tensions escalate over the possible ban on the China-based app.

There's a Senate bill, and of course, I think it'll pass.

LinkedIn laid off, did a round of layoffs, and also Lane Bryan and Ann Taylor have filed for bankruptcy.

LinkedIn let go of 6% of their employees.

They're a Microsoft division, by the way.

People don't remember that.

And Slack says it filed a motion with the European Commission saying that Microsoft is engaged in anti-competitive behavior against the messaging startup, very similar to what Spotify did to Apple.

Which one of these smaller bits of news, because we're going to talk about antitrust in the hearing coming up as our big story, but what do you think about all these various still a very tense environment around business and tech and stuff?

Well, again,

we take this cold comfort in believing that the main street economy is fine because the Nasdaq is up.

It's not.

We're in the midst midst of a global pandemic.

I don't know.

I mean, Euro is working, but what I found is sort of weird is

it's easy to fall into this notion that not working or being at home is normal.

No, it's not.

It's bad for the economy.

And the thing that, again, it's just more a decade and 12 weeks of acceleration.

And Asanto, everyone predicted

that that was shocking how long it took.

Specialty retail apparel, whether it's J.

Crew, Brooks Brothers, Ann Taylor, Dress Barn, it's like, where is your mom going to shop now?

I mean, literally, the economy has declared war on your aunt's wardrobe.

All these guys are struggling.

We are overstored three to five times the amount of specialty.

Well, that's true.

You've talked about this before, this overstore.

So this is just the right sizing.

This is just accelerating.

Or is it the right sizing, or this should have happened anyway?

Because they were doing fine before.

They were decelerating, but at a slower rate, I guess.

Yeah,

Asena was going out of business.

And so is JCPenneys and so is Brooks Brothers.

All the guys that are going out of business.

It's not surprising.

It's just kind of, when was it going to happen?

The more interesting news, I think, is LinkedIn and also if you look at Twitter's earnings, and that is there's effectively in the ad, kind of the advertising industrial complex, to summarize, advertising sucks.

And the consumer has decided that through a use of technology or a little bit of money, he or she can now avoid advertising and all of their media.

And ad-supported media is in the decline and subscription-based media is accelerating and there's some interesting things that came out twitter's earnings came out yesterday and their business their ad revenue was down 23 percent saw that but in the face of daily active users accelerating 34 percent

so but think about just how mind-blowing this is kara what that means is if you you if your daily active users increase 34 percent but your revenue declines 23 percent it means that you're monetizable your ability to monetize each consumer has declined by 40, somewhere around 45%.

This is a collapse in their business model.

So what it says is the following.

Twitter has a great business.

It has a great product.

It has an awful business model.

The ad-supported business model.

And we're going to talk about that in the antitrust thing.

They're small.

They're small potatoes compared to Facebook and Google.

Well, they actually,

they have a pretty big footprint, but their business model, ad-supported media, unless you have the size and the scale and the targeting tools of Google and Facebook, you're done.

So the consolidation, and it's also impacting LinkedIn, which laid off 6% of their workforce due to, I bet, the softening in their business not only is obviously hiring down, but I bet I would bet, and I would bet that, and we'll see this if they break it out, that it's the ad

part of their business that is really suffering.

So what you're seeing here is the beginning of the consolidation of media.

And that is while Google and Facebook will take a short-term hit, their revenues will strike back, will rip back stronger because they'll begin to consolidate the ad market.

But the other guys, the Pinterest, the Twitters, the LinkedIns, they're not going to come back in terms of ad revenue.

And it's more evidence that if Jack Dorsey doesn't launch a bunch of subscription pilots, there is no way he's going to be able to justify his stock price because the advertising industrial complex is basically under unbelievable fire.

And because consumers have decided advertising sucks, I don't want to endure this.

Yep.

And the only ones that can endure it would be Facebook and Google because of that targeting.

And LinkedIn is interesting because I think you hit on the head with them:

hiring.

That is the heart.

Even though they put all kinds of content and learnings and things like that,

it's really the higher people aren't working and they're not networking and they're not doing the things that made that site very strong.

I mean, for them.

And they're doing, you know, they're in within Microsoft.

That's what's incredible is that they're within a bigger company, which could probably endure the price, but I've decided not to.

That company will come back stronger, though, because I think over 60% of their revenue is some form of subscription revenue.

They'll come back stronger.

They'll laid off about a thousand people.

They'll be tighter, meaner, leaner.

They'll come back.

I mean, you don't like to say this out loud, but that kind of culling or that forced culling is actually, or they're shedding the skin, is actually pretty healthy for a company on a regular basis.

As you have noted in your bloodless manner.

Let's go.

But speaking of which, Slack is what it is.

Excellent.

Before we get to the big story, Slack, filing with the European Commission, Slack, Microsoft tried to buy Slack, would fit in very nicely with LinkedIn, by the way, in those purchases, and fit in very nicely with Microsoft, along with a bunch of other companies.

A lot of people have tried to buy Slack.

It has resisted, most of them, thinking they can do this by themselves and wanting to and having a better product.

So it filed this motion with the European Commission.

about Microsoft in particular, although other companies,

in that case, it's with Microsoft Teams and the integration of it into its products.

Again, this is going to the European Commission seems to, if Spotify did it, Slack is doing it.

Where do you put someone like Slack, which is trying to be one of these smaller players, you know, changing things, but run up against the big, big dogs?

When I'm on vacation, I like to take my boys down to, my nine and 12-year-old down to the hotel bar, and we order a can of Coke and we split it.

Because in our house, you know, God forbid sugary water ever enter their corpus.

So dad takes them down when we're on vacation as a treat and we have a coke and now every night when we're at home they ask they ask their mom can i have a coke and she looks at them like don't even ask me that question and then they will go into another room and they'll say hey dad can you come here and then i come in and they say can we have a coke ah yes and essentially essentially tech companies now look at Marguerite Bestier and the European Union as dad that might, you know, it's like mom won't listen to it.

The U.S.

Department of Justice, the FDC, don't care.

They like monopolies.

They like big companies.

So

we're going to go to dad, Europe, who might, who might listen to us.

Yeah.

I think Europe will pick this up.

I think they'll pick it up.

Yeah, you think they'll.

Yeah, they're going to...

The letter was powerful.

It said Microsoft is up to its old tricks again.

It's bundling an inferior product and predatory pricing and

Teams.

I don't know a lot of people using Teams, but I guess once you use it.

It's actually growing pretty fast.

Yeah.

So, but in any case, you know, it's the same thing.

I think Zoom will probably have to file motions in the European Commission.

There's all kinds of interesting companies which have sort of pushed ahead.

And very few

get out of their orbit, pull out of their orbit.

You know, maybe Netflix.

There's some that do, but these are these small innovative companies that, smaller innovative companies that get out of these companies, these other bigger companies, orbits who tend to copy them.

Just like right now, Facebook is copying

screens.

They're doing screens, I think that's what it's called to copy them.

So TikTok competitor.

They're a TikTok competitor.

It's just, just, you know, that's what they do.

They put these tractor beams in and try to drag everybody into their product, which is subpar comparatively.

Which brings us into our big stories.

Speaking of antitrust, next week is going to be a big week for the big tech four for the first time.

The CEOs of Apple, Amazon, Facebook, and Google will all appear in front of the House Judiciary Antitrust Subcommittee.

on Monday.

Mark Zuckerberg, Tim Cook, Sunder Pichai, and Jeff Bezos are all expected to testify in in a panel focused on antitrust and digital advertising.

As of today, it's still unclear if they will appear in person or virtually.

I am telling you they will appear virtually.

These companies have all had antitrust inquiries over the past few years.

Let's want to go one by one or do you have an overall thought?

Well, my first overall thought is...

The last time there was big hearings, I was invited to testify or be an expert, and I haven't been invited this time.

And I think it's your fault.

I think I've lost a lot of credibility.

I was not invited this time.

I have the ears of all these people, and I say, do not invite the dog.

Seriously.

I've lost a lot of credibility here.

Something's wrong.

Anyways, back to the show.

Let's go one by one.

Who do you want to go first?

Well,

let's start with, let's go Facebook Last.

Let's go Apple because I think they're

in the strongest position in terms.

They've hired a very well-known antitrust economist who has been very anti these big companies, talking about the App Store.

I think they have the most flexibility in that they can make changes and probably assuage the developers by making certain changes without

getting broken up in any way.

But I don't know.

What do you think?

So, in my No Mercy, No Malice blog post tomorrow, I'm putting together just a series of graphs and questions.

And the questions, a couple of questions I would ask Apple would be that we often refer to our larger economy as the app economy.

But the app economy basically has

two companies that control it, Apple and Google.

And Apple controls two-thirds by revenue of the app economy, and they place a 30% tax.

And they essentially get to pick winners and losers across the broader economy, across almost any, if it's streaming, everyone from Netflix to Hulu pays anywhere between 3% and 8%

toll of all revenues to Apple.

And Apple can also, similar to what Google does, basically deprioritize you or make you less discoverable and put you out of business just

with an absolute flip of the switch.

You also have, I mean, I there's so much, you could have so much fun here.

If you look at their streaming video service, they're offering you a billion dollars of content for 80 cents a month.

And I think HBO is up at 12 bucks.

Netflix is at, I think, about a buck 20.

And the question is, how does this make any economic sense?

And the answer is it doesn't.

So what they're doing is they're using their handset revenue, a different business, a hardware business, to subsidize an entirely unrelated business, which is the equivalent of predatory pricing and dumping.

I mean, there's just so many different ways you could look at Apple and say, okay, you are way too powerful.

You own the Rails.

People have Spotify is a better service than Apple Music.

Apple Music is growing faster.

Why?

Because the Rails can favor Apple Music.

There's just a series of.

So, what do you do here?

What is the remedy?

What would you ask if you were, say, Congressman Jim Jordan?

Do you have your sleeves rolled up?

He will try to focus on conservative bias, but he shouldn't.

Sure.

So

the most obvious one is regulation of the app store.

Because the hard part, elegant antitrust, it's like a good virus keeps the host alive.

Right.

And I'm not sure why I'm comparing antitrust to a virus, but elegant antitrust.

Antitrust not only unlocks competition, but it doesn't impair, it doesn't kill the host.

In other words, the host goes on to be more and more valuable as when we broke up the baby bells, each of them or so.

How do you break up the app store?

If they want to keep the quality of the app?

I'm pretending I'm Apple.

You know, the quality is good.

Like it's not a crazy

place like Google, the Google store, which is problematic.

They keep a really good tight rein on quality and malware and et cetera.

How do you break it up since they're so tightly integrated?

And then we're going to move on.

I think you regulate the app store because I think you're right.

I think they benefit from scale and the core asset of Apple is the brand.

And it would be very hard to figure out who has domain over brand-based decisions.

What you could do.

More sharing of information would be helpful with the app people because they take a lot of the information.

More flexibility on the pricing, that kind of stuff that can be regulated.

In businesses you're competing in, if you're competing against music against Spotify,

we're going to provide oversight and you can't charge Spotify.

You can't delay tools that get to Spotify, thereby weakening their competitive position against a product you want.

You can't carve out the businesses you're in.

What about the ones you're not in where you're charging this 30%?

Should there that be it can't be over this?

It can't be, since you're the only game in town except for Google, and by the way, you're the only game in town for Apple.

You have to have a like a

sliding scale.

I mean, I remember in the cable industry that was the case.

Well, that's exactly right.

We're well practiced in this.

When we have one utility that services all of central Florida for electricity, we have regulators who decide what the pricing should be and that they're not being predatory or that they're not charging low-income houses too much money or that their billing is not too difficult, or that they're not.

We know how to do this.

So, this is a regulatory fix, not an anti-fix.

But you talked about, but this is antitrust.

There is an antitrust action here, and it's something I hadn't thought of

before, and that is they could spin their chip unit.

It's like people don't talk about Amazon's media group.

You know, business people don't talk about Apple, is they are now manufacturing their own

chips and their own microprocessors.

And people have talked about that would be an easy one to spin, and that would make the company more competitive or make the market more competitive.

So, that's

that's a potential spin.

I'll be curious if anyone asks about that.

But Apple, I don't think, no, it exists.

Yeah, I think you're probably right.

But, anyways, that's Apple.

Should we move on to the next one?

Yes, let's go to Google.

I picked Google.

Well, all right, that's an easy one.

Mr.

Puchai, can you name any industry globally that is larger than $100 billion in revenue where one player controls 93%?

Yeah.

That's it.

That's all.

And what?

And then what?

Well, doesn't that.

They've flown under the radar.

Doesn't that imply?

Doesn't that imply that you have more control of this industry than any individual company has ever had that much control of an industry in history, which likely and logically leads to the following abuses?

I mean, they're both a market maker.

Google

benefits from the fact that it's actually quite complicated.

I mean, they're not only making a market with their old acquisition to double-click, they're on both sides of the transaction

for a long time.

And it's probably

the most kind of obvious case of something that, you know, if you kind of own the market, you're on the buy and the sell, and you know both the bid and the ask, it's just not, it's just not kosher.

All right, so I'm going to pretend I'm Sundarpa Chai and I'm going to say, Mr.

Ciceline, this is how it works perfectly for all our many advertisers.

And what do you expect us to do?

What do you expect us to do?

Split them apart or create separate companies, separate advertising companies or search companies.

Can you break up search?

You could break up.

I mean, you could break up the components of the I would leave the search intact.

I would spin YouTube.

I would spin

their cloud business.

And then there's something around trying to figure out a way where they're not on both sides of the market in terms of how they manage the marketplace for banner ads and digital advertising.

There's absolutely more opportunity there because effectively every digital marketer other than those two has slowly but surely gone out of business because they can't compete.

Why spin off YouTube?

What's the point?

Well, for competition.

So YouTube is radicalizing young men

and could stop it, but they don't have any incentive to because they're the only game in town.

And if you spun YouTube in the first corporate strategy meeting of an independent YouTube, they would decide, you know, I'd really like to have a Gulf Stream.

Why don't we get into text-based search?

And then an independent Google that no longer has YouTube would decide, you know what, I want my second Gulfstream.

So we're going to launch our own video-based search engine.

And overnight, you have two viable competitors.

And then one of them.

Well, there was, remember?

Google Video.

I remember meeting with the head of Google Video back in 100 years ago.

There was a separate Google Video unit, which they closed down when they bought YouTube.

But that's, yeah, but the point is they're now cooperating and coordinating.

And when they stop cooperating and coordinating, one of the things they will do, over in my opinion, in short order, they'll say, well, how do we get PNG to advertise on Google Tube versus YouTube, which is now our competitor?

And they say, I know, let's put in place

some investments and put in place some safeguards such that young children don't see porn on what if the head of YouTube, Susan Woodski, says, you know, we're going to hire Google for search.

They've been hired for search, you know, to white label it, that kind of thing.

They're the best, and they are.

What do you think?

I don't think that, A, you can make that as a condition of the spin.

And B, I think YouTube's new YouTube executives, Greenglands, will get going and go, we can get into text-based search.

Both of these companies would have gotten into the other's business if they were two separate companies.

And competition would result in more innovation and an ability or a willingness to actually make changes rather than just putting, you know, the CEO of YouTube is very thoughtful and very nice, just looking earnest all the time.

And then meanwhile, you know, they talk about taking down, you know,

these comments are really ugly comments.

Some of the comments in YouTube are just so vile.

yeah and some of the i i just don't buy that it's the wild west and we can't control it and it's worth it to bring you videos of the comments as you know i just just get rid of them just get rid of them they're not helping shut them off shut them off that's what we did it by the way we did that at

recode many years many many years ago it was a big hue and cry when i did it and i'm like you know what it's a trash heap i don't feel like cleaning and i don't want it

but google google as three independent companies i think right now it does i don't know about a 1.2 or 1.4 trillion dollar market three companies shareholder values in three In three years, those three companies are worth more in aggregate than the company is now.

Create competition.

Better for everybody.

Better for everybody.

Best radicalization of young men.

And then Neva could come up, some others that are trying to compete.

There'd be more in aggregate.

I've heard much about Neva since you brought it up.

You said you were going to find out if I could invest, but I haven't.

I heard.

Right.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I heard.

I totally forgot.

It's on the list of I have to call Scott back, too.

Okay.

You find time to text Charles Hamberg, but not the dog.

I have not.

I have not texted Charles Hamberg in a while.

All right.

We're going to get to Facebook in a minute.

Amazon.

Wow.

I think this one's easy.

I think it's marketplace, right?

That's pretty much that.

Yeah, but I would have some more fun with that.

I would first

by saying, let's look at the wealthiest men throughout 20th century, Carnegie, then Mellon,

then Bezos, then Carlos Slim, then Bill Gates.

What do these people have in common?

Oh, I know they all made their money.

By ownership and what was ultimately deemed a monopoly.

How are you any different?

Isn't that the one thing the wealthiest people?

By the way, let's talk a little bit about your wealth.

You now control more wealth in the defense budget of Britain, Germany, Russia, Canada, and Australia combined.

Is that healthy for the economy?

I don't think they should talk about their wealth, but go ahead.

Let's hear this.

Fair enough.

When you have monopoly power and this type of power, when you have this type of soft power, including the Washington Post, which plays a big role in all of us clinging to the most valuable thing in our lives, the only thing we have, and that is the ability to get reservations of bad restaurants in D.C.

because we're elected officials.

Do you not have too much power as a function of your monopoly abuse?

Or better yet, in the last 12 weeks, there's been 10% acceleration of e-commerce from 18 to 28%.

You control 40% of all e-commerce.

Haven't you gained 4% share of the largest consumer market in the world, U.S.

retail?

My congressman, I'm going to come back.

I'm Jeff Bezos.

Let me finish my question.

Mr.

Bezos, let me finish my question.

Haven't you, in the last 12 weeks, gained 4% market share of U.S.

retail?

Has any company in the history of business ever gained 4% of market share of U.S.

retail in a decade, much less 12 weeks?

Well, you know, the retail market is a lot larger than you're talking about, Congressman.

It is this many trillion, and it represents all these stores.

And we're just about a wee part of that entire, it depends on what you consider the market as.

If I've heard that, where I'm executive, I heard it from Uber executives, Amazon executives, Apple executives, Face.

The market is a lot bigger than you're saying, and we are just a small part of it.

And so if you want to look at it in aggregate, we are not a very big player.

So, Mr.

Bezos, that's a fair point.

In terms of market share of gross revenue, you're right.

You're only about 4% or 6%.

And Walmart is bigger.

I acknowledge the point.

But if we talk about competitive power, if we talk about an economy, if we talk about taxation, if we talk about an ability for other companies to make investments, pay their employees, support middle-class households, it really comes down to market capitalization.

and that is the market sense of how much power you have.

And over the last three months, since your March lows, you have added more value to your market cap than all of specialty retail, all of department stores, and let's throw in Walmart.

So the top line gross market share number is irrelevant.

What's relevant here is power, and power comes down to economic might and shareholder value.

And you, sir, are garnering 120%

of all economic shareholder value, and everybody else has the oxygen leaking from the room.

Yes.

Well, very nice.

That's, in fact, my column for the Times that is publishing very soon.

A power.

It's about power.

Power is what it is.

It's about political power.

Power.

Power.

It's about power.

The last one, we've got to wrap this up.

We're going to have us an election.

Let's count some votes.

Let's count us some votes before we have an election here.

That is pretty good.

Power.

Power.

Political power.

Last two.

We got to get through this.

We've got a big time.

Listen, Facebook and should Dorsey belong in this group?

Dorsey has no business up there.

No beeswit.

That's a pimple.

Sorry, Jim.

That's a pimple.

That's kind of an interesting idea.

Well, you're not going to break up Twitter.

No, but like, they have more.

Well, according to Jim Jordan, they have power in the marketplace of ideas.

Also, Jim Jordan doesn't have any power in the marketplace.

He wants to muddy the waters.

You know how this thing comes off the track?

He's a muddier.

He's a muddier.

How this thing comes up the track, and they're already doing it.

They're already announcing shutting down different things because they're hoping, this is all very strategic.

They're hoping that this turns into a food fight where conservative panelists start talking about conservative bias and the liberals immediately go to the bottom of the business

with them i have discussed this with them they have to show some discipline and show that they are get paid their 168 000 for a reason and not

i agree i have discussed this with them at length and i was because when they were you know when i was trying to figure out who they were going to call i thought oh god it's diamond and silk and i think i texted one of them saying i better not be diamond and silk as your witness um and as you know i was like we need to focus on the power thing but they're more that market forces will take care of it by by the way.

The Republicans, that's going to be their argument, that it doesn't need a breakup.

It needs market forces.

Facebook, last one, because we've got to get to the next story.

Facebook.

Three and a half billion people on your platform.

You have more control.

And any step towards tyranny and any step towards democracy, the key attribute.

of power sociologically, economically is control of the media.

Three and a half billion people are on your platform.

One and a half billion people are on it every day.

More people are subjected to the information your algorithms decide what they should see than any religion, country, philosophy, economic system in history.

And it has led to very corrupt, ugly places.

Isn't your level of influence over a population the size of the southern hemisphere plus India, doesn't it represent, and haven't you demonstrated over and over that you are a threat to the comity of man and the general well-being of Western democracies?

Aren't you in fact the greatest menace?

Aren't you in fact the greatest menace of the last 100 years?

You can be a lot of people.

And by the way, we're sick of your $2 billion beard roaming around the world for photo ops that make her more likable.

Listen to me.

That's a good argument.

And I would say also that you also don't want to monitor it either.

You don't want to like, you also are pushing away the

responsibility over this.

That is where I would also say.

So very quickly, what is the thing?

And then we're going to go to a break.

What is the choice here to do with it?

What do you break break up?

Yeah, what's the remedy?

I mean, the remedy for Facebook is easy.

If they can acquire Instagram and WhatsApp, they can divest them.

Yeah.

That's kind of the easiest one.

It doesn't even, I mean,

even branding.

And advertising.

Let's not forget advertising.

They have an enormous say over advertising and publishing.

Yeah,

Facebook is the easiest one.

And also just the semantics of this.

The big victory for big tech is there is safety and numbers.

And what you're going to see, the dynamic that's going to play out here

is that

the majority of the IR is going to go after Zuckerberg because he's he's the least likable.

He's the most offensive.

He's the most awkward.

The one that will, it'll be what I'd call institutionalized fallatia will be Bezos.

Yeah, as you've noted.

They're all going to talk about how wonderful he is.

And by the way, Wink Wink, please invite me to your cool party in Calorama.

And by the way, you just may want to just talk about what a good Republican I am in the Washington Post.

He has more soft power than China right now.

And they're all going to just, as you know, it's probably going to be on Zoom or something like that.

That's the problem.

But this is what they need to do.

This is such an important point.

And that is the medium is the message.

And because we're going to lose that moment for electricity or a genuine authentic moment, they haven't been prepped by a bevy of consultants because it'll be on Zoom.

They need to do what Katie Porter, AOC, and Elizabeth Warren are just genius at.

And that is these are not witnesses.

They are props.

And they need to do the following thing.

A dramatic graph highlighting their abuse of their monopoly power, which I will publish tomorrow.

I'm going to publish about 20 or 30 of these charts.

Good.

Share screen, ask question, unshare screen, look for two seconds at their emotion, let them answer for three, and then show a new graph, new question, and just keep going.

Because the only thing that you have as an advantage as a questionnaire or a professor teaching on Zoom is you can better leverage visual aids.

You know, in person in these hearings, when they try and use those bad easels and boards, it doesn't work.

I hate the easels.

You want to go to where the medium takes you, and the medium takes you.

The only thing that's better about this medium, quite frankly, is your use of visual aids.

They should share screen like it's going out of business.

Ask questions, move on.

Basically chart, share screen, question, quick response, wash, rinse, and repeat over and over.

One of the issues, though, is given all the other forest fires going on everywhere, including, you know, from Portland, this and that, people aren't going to be paying attention.

Someone really smart wrote me,

nothing is going to happen until after the election.

I don't think anyone cares, which is why they all agreed to sit now.

So it has to keep going.

So some inside baseball, I know you have heard from the offices of some of our elected representatives.

Yeah.

And what has been kind of, give us some inside baseball.

What's the vibe?

What's the concerns?

Well, Carol, we're trying.

Right.

And it's hard to get them.

And then other people are like, why don't they just subpoena these people?

Like, stop playing cooperative games.

Right.

Others are like, stop paying.

Let's just subpoena them and have them refuse a subpoena and not try to negotiate and let them do it on their terms but i think it's correct it has to happen after the election and and it depends on who's the president again i think facebook will do very well trump wins i think it was

a huge mistake to let them

i think they should have delayed the hearing until they could have done it in person because yep you don't really get possibly you don't really get anything tangibly done you need the whole swearing-in thing you need the whole but they need to be done separately on each day i have now come around that is correct

all right now so we're going to watch that we're going to watch that and then we're going to tape right after.

I'm going to watch it and then we're going to tape right after it.

I may go up there, but I can't because I have to talk to you right afterwards.

But in any case, let's go for a quick break and come back to talk about Twitter banning QAnon accounts and a listener mail question that is excellent.

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Okay, Scott, we're back.

Big deal, even though you pretend not to know what this is.

Twitter permanently banned thousands of users spreading QAnon conspiracy theories on the platform.

Facebook claims it will be doing the same.

It's apparently coordinating with Twitter, but Twitter moved first.

Twitter said that these fringe conspiracy messages are leading to harm, a big surprise, and thus violate the company's safety policy.

Again, why now?

The company will also be blocking trending topics affiliated with QAnon on the platform.

Over the past few years, QAnon, which espouses that they have inside information about the plot to sabotage President Trump, has gained popularity on social media platforms, especially Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook.

The New York Times is reporting that Facebook has similar plans to limit QAnon messaging on its platform and has coordinated with Twitter to make the announcement in August.

In May, Facebook removed 20 Facebook accounts, not very many, and six groups affiliated with QAnon.

These are the absolute crazies that have been spewing all kinds of really awful conspiracy theories four years ago.

This was around Pizzagate, I believe QAnon was attached to that.

So

what took so long?

And

what do you think of this?

Because it's just, because

this amount of information has been allowed to spew on the platforms, it's just been ongoing.

And

part of me feels like the damage is done.

Part of me is like, oh, good, you're finally doing it.

But I also also kind of don't want to say thank you because they should have done it before.

This, again, you can reverse engineer this to that 23% decline in ad revenues.

And that is Twitter is in the midst of this great starching or the move to try to be the iOS.

And what they've recognized is that

if you think 51% of America is blue, it represents about 80 to 90% of the decision makers in the advertising industrial complex.

Show me someone who's a media buyer for PubliC or for ABMBAB.

I'm going to show you someone who lives in a city and has a college degree, which is Latin for they're a Democrat.

So they have decided, they've all of a sudden found God around the notion that, okay, some of this far-right craziness should be pushed off.

They will also push off some crazies, and we have a lot of them on the left as well.

But basically, they're saying, okay, consumers want a safer place.

We're going to piss off people, but we have to either be iOS or we have to be acknowledge we're a media company or a safer place because we are running out of options because this sort of like give voice to the unheard, get to massive scale, delay and obfuscation, they can't play that well nearly as well.

They can't play that game nearly as well as Google or Facebook and it doesn't work for them.

So they are responding to general business strategy and that is we're the we're the distant like million miles back number three here.

So we have no choice but to get a niche.

So let's go after the dollars.

How do we go after the dollars?

The people that control the dollars aren't fucking crazies and aren't going to get mad at us.

You know what Twitter needs to do?

And you know what, quite frankly, all these platforms need to do?

That's one of the biggest threats to our society as a whole right now?

Is 50% of America isn't sure they'll take this vaccine.

So what's the point if all of humanity is focused on a vaccine and we get there, but 50% of the people won't take the damn thing unless we figure out a way to start educating people and showing them about the victories.

and about the most wondrous or one of the most wonderful things about our humanity is respect for the interrogation and the pursuit of the truth in the form of science and that it has done such incredible things and get people comfortable with the notion of taking this vaccine,

it's not going to make any difference.

I mean, Moderna and Gilead's stock will go up, but we're never going to get to anything resolving herd humanity, herd immunity if

the majority of American people.

I think this stuff really does over time

just cheapen and tarnish everything it touches.

And I do think that the amount of time, part of me feels like it's too late that they have allowed this to go on.

Now, part of me feels like this is the way Americans are, have been.

It just gives them more outlets to do it because conspiracy theories and this kind of behavior have been around since the Salem witch trials and before that.

Like, this is our thing in this country to be as ignorant as possible about important issues

and

not wear masks, argue about masks.

That's just, to me, is the most ridiculous.

And then have Trump try to gaslight us and say he likes masks the whole time.

I mean, this is typical.

So, I mean, QAnon is really

has been helped and amplified and weaponized by these platforms.

And they had a responsibility a long time ago.

It'll be interesting.

There's two things.

If YouTube will be pressured to take action as well, you know, if Google, if Google has to, in that, because they're a big purveyor of this stuff.

And then tangentially, this week, podcaster Joe Rogan recently had a guest, Abigail Schreier, on his show, wherein she spread massive misinformation about trans youth, equating their experience with joining a cult, which Mr.

Rogan went along with and said a lot of things that were super disturbing.

Does a company like Spotify have a similar responsibility to quell this kind of misinformation or not at all?

It's just like

what Rush Limbaugh does every week.

I think when a popular host personality makes

stupid statements, people like yourself come in, shame them.

But there's a difference between that and providing more and more oxygen to anti-vax content than it would get organically because it creates

so much controversy and heat that results in more engagement and more chibaniads so you keep giving it more and more oxygen than it deserves i do think that that the free speech argument around joe rogan and rush limbaugh is a valid one If they want to say crazy shit, fine.

Other people can push back on it.

But when you start saying, okay,

vaccinations have

a direct link to ADHD or whatever.

And then, okay, there's a percentage of the population that believes that, wants to talk about it, fine.

But when all of a sudden you start getting those messages from people you trust, because their algorithm says the more we can spread this, the more engagement and rage in Shobani ads, that's a real

problem.

So I don't think the two are the same.

I think it's a fairly good idea.

Good point.

Good point.

But we'll see what they do.

It's good that they're doing this.

We'll see what Facebook does, the slow rollers of all time,

and if they'll do anything significant.

But they just certainly, you know, I think in Twitter's case,

they agonize, and this is something directionally they wanted to go in but they had this whole uh

free speech feelings and stuff like that but now i think they realize this is not this is hate speech this is not free speech it's a hate speech issue and it's also something that really is so insidious uh around vaccinations around uh plots and things like that they have real world implications that are really dangerous and so it'll be interesting to see what they do and what kind of pushback they get i think most people most reasonable people are like yeah this isn't like this needs to be have some warning on it, even if they might resist for free speech reasons.

Well, speaking of podcasts, going back to the

Amazon issue, I don't know if you saw, but there's a little sentence or a couple of sentences.

Amazon is launching their own podcast service, and obviously they're putting out terms of service around one, excuse me, around Audible.

And the CEO of Wondery, Hernan Lopez, sent me an email this morning.

In varied in their terms of service for their new podcasting service,

is language saying, if you're going to be on on our platform, you can't say anything mean or bad about Amazon.

And so the question, if I were on this Monday's panel, would be, so should we assume, Mr.

Bezos, that any media property you own will have explicit instructions to never say anything bad about Amazon?

Does that mean the Washington Post is not allowed to say anything bad about Amazon?

Oh, wow.

Isn't this the whole point that when billionaires start acquiring media companies, it's about power, Scott.

It's more soft power leads us to very bad places.

Soft power.

Interesting.

Okay, let's take a listener question.

It's an excellent one coming from Scotland.

Play the tape.

You've got mail.

Hi, Cara and Scott.

I'm Jack, a student at the University of Edinburgh.

I want to hear your take on Uber's recent announcement of Uber Transit, a SaaS offering which delivers Uber's back-end analytics and management software for public transport services.

Uber's also acquired Rootmatch in the same space.

In the same way as Amazon sells on its own marketplace, should transit operators, essentially competitors, be worried as Uber plans to host a transport marketplace through its app and now deliver the back-end software for public transport?

Are we looking at an Uber monopoly on mobility?

And is this SaaS analytics play a viable move in the wake of COVID-19's damage to the core ride-sharing business?

Thanks for taking my question.

Oh, you oatmeal savage, you are.

It sounds a wee bit Glaswiesian on the line there.

You just say Scott is a Scott.

Right, correct.

What gave it away?

Galloway?

Come on.

I don't know.

Long line of drunks and wasn't there a nice flap

Galloway who played the flute?

I recall.

James Galloway.

On the pan flute.

On the pan flute.

You're not like that at all.

You know, when I got a date over,

you'd be like a satyr, you know, with a pan flute.

That's what I could see you like fur and playing a pan flute.

No, I would put on James Galloway music when I'd have a date over and I'd ensure that it was almost like a prophylactic ensuring I would never conceive a a child.

Listen to some pan flute.

Okay, we're getting to this young man's excellent question.

Sir, from

Jack?

Yes, many times.

I love Edinburgh.

Yes.

Many times.

It's a great city.

Many.

I love Edinburgh.

I love Scott.

I've driven all over Scotland, Scott.

I had a life before you, and I'm going to have one after you.

There's no such thing.

There is.

There's Priest, Scott, and Scott, and we like the latter.

We like the latter.

Listen to me.

Yeah.

Listen to me.

This is a situation where I actually know something.

I interviewed Dari Khosrashahi many times

a few years ago.

Take it away.

He was talking about this, the ability of like to wave your phone over a transit stop and pay via Uber.

Now, a lot of some subway systems, like New York, is trying to put in its own system, but Uber would be the payment system.

And then also that Uber would take over some transit routes.

And it's happened in China with some of their

ride-sharing things as they take over popular bus routes or they do other kinds of things that work for the city.

And it's a real opportunity, I think, given how badly mass transit is going to be.

And even though I think it is a public good that we should have vibrant mass transit, I think it's going to be privatized after this pandemic.

I think all the mass transit, whether it's Amtrak or

the local munis and BARTs and wherever you have, that's in San Francisco

or here, the Metro and stuff like that.

I think they're going to have to make some public-private partnerships, and that's problematic.

And Uber is there probably in a very very good position what do you think let's go meta on this adar kaswashahi employs what is i think the key attribute in innovation and that is not being the innovator being the second mouse and benchmarking and he is benchmarking amazon and amazon if you were to think what is really amazon's superpower is it their data is it their storytelling that results in a cheaper cost of capital such they can pull the future forward.

What Amazon has done better than any firm in history is this ultimate jiu-jitsu move of turning expenses into shareholder value.

So for example, what does a dog mean by that, Carol?

What does a dog mean?

If you look at product costs, let's look at their 2005 income statement, and this is courtesy of social capital.

They did a fantastic job of analyzing this.

Product costs used to be 73% of their costs.

So what do they do?

They use that development to spin out the Kindle, Amazon Basics, Amazon Fire, Amazon Echo, and they create great businesses.

3% of their costs in 2005 were shippings.

Like, how do we turn shipping costs into a revenue line and create shareholder value they spin out air transportation services group and basically are offering uh fulfillment amazon fulfillment by amazon which fulfillment used to be six percent of their cost but now it's a service they offer to their third-party marketplaces what was five percent of their cost in technology and content their own web services.

So what do they do?

They build their own and now they have the most valuable company in the world tracked within this is an opportunity for marketing and then they spin out Amazon Prime.

They have their own payments platform that used to cost them 2% of revenues.

Instead, what do they do?

They take that 2% cost and they turn it into an R ⁇ D expense and launch Amazon payments.

No company in the world has taken a cost base and turned it into Uber.

Bring it back, land it back to Uber.

Well, Uber could do that.

Uber's taking their back-end costs, their infrastructure, their technology, and their platform, and they're saying, let's turn it into a business a la Amazon.

Yeah.

And

this is such a genius move.

And it's such an interesting thing to think about this.

Take the infrastructure and the costs of your business and say, could we, is this so good?

Could we spin it out and perhaps offer it as a separate business to other third parties?

And it typically companies have

you.

I feel like I'm trying to figure out spin you out in some way and make some money off of you.

Sell you out.

Sell you out, as they say.

Nice.

Rent you out.

Rent a Scottish.

But you're right.

I think this back end.

I think it's a man whore, isn't it?

I do something like that.

Fledgling, these public transit systems are going to be in trouble.

They're going to need help.

And even though you've seen some of it in New York, I don't know if you, I haven't been in a subway in several months, but they were rolling out their pay-by-phone kind of thing where you just waved your phone.

I think things like they need to deploy them in these, in these kiosks and everything else.

So that has to happen from a technological point of view.

But it seems like...

Uber would be one of the ones because everybody has Uber on their phones.

It's a utility really on their phone.

And it's an app that's, you don't do anything but open it up to get a ride or do something useful.

So I think they have a big opportunity here, I do think, in public transit.

And not just moving people necessarily, taking over bus routes.

That's way down the line.

And that's a more difficult proposition because a lot of people feel this transit should be a public good and not a money-making operation.

But they are positioned more than most people in this area, I think.

I would agree.

I think it's smart.

And by the way, we're having Dara to school, so we can ask him about that.

But it's going to shape up.

Everything is reducting to the same battle.

And that is this, what I'll call back-end transportation services logistics.

There are only so many big pools of capital left to go after, and one of them is government, and that's probably the biggest pool of capital available out there.

And the iOS will be Uber and the Android of this.

And actually, I think who is probably even better positioned to do this than Uber is Google Maps.

Google.

You're right.

That's what I was saying.

Google.

Absolutely.

100%.

It's interesting.

They had dabbled in talking about that many years ago.

And we'll see if they move back there.

They've got so many irons in the fire, but excellent talk, Jack from Edinburgh.

We really appreciate it.

Scott, we're going to take one more quick break.

We'll be back for your predictions.

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Toka alben para sabermás.

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Okay, Scott, we talked a lot about

what will happen at the antitrust hearings on Monday.

Do you have any predictions about their stocks or do you have another prediction, perhaps?

So a boring prediction, Kara.

Monday is a big day for Representative Val Butler Demings, Florida's 10th District.

She's being considered, as you know, as a potential VEEP.

And

this is probably going to be the first time that America is sort of introduced to her.

So I would imagine that they are spending a lot of time thinking about what she's going to say, what she's going to ask.

This is sort of her moment, if you will.

This is where careers are made on Monday for Representative Demings.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think she's a star and will be on this subcommittee questioning.

The other thing is, the other thing is there's just going to be so many.

I think Tesla is probably over the next 12 months, even they realize if Tesla sells every car in the world for the next 10 years, it's still difficult to justify their market capitalization.

They've blown past 300 billion.

When Apple blew past 300 billion, it was dramatically larger with dramatically larger profits.

It's just if you look at any company that hit 300 billion, it looked entirely different.

than Tesla.

And I can't imagine that Tesla wouldn't be firing up every investment bank and corporate development executive and say, let's go buy some interesting companies.

If we're really going to, if we really want to be a power company, let's go buy it.

They just announced, obviously, that deal in Austin.

But I think you're going to see some very interesting M ⁇ A activity over the next six to 12 months from Tesla as an acquirer.

You're not getting into stock, are you?

You're not saying a word.

I have been, you mean the guy who said at 300 bucks, it was going below 100?

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, it's

you're saying that.

But this one just makes too much sense.

If you have this kind of, I won't even say, I won't even say it's overvalued because I get burned every time I say that, but this fully valued currency called Tesla stock, that makes almost any acquisition of any company accretive.

Because so they should be out there looking at everything, you know, knock, knock, hi, how are you?

Do you want, do you want to sell?

So this is, we're going to see a lot of them in the activity.

Interesting.

All right, that's really good.

I'm going to get back to you on the House, the Antitrust Commercial and Administrative Law Subcommittee.

David Cicillini is obviously the chair.

Dal Butler Downing, she's on it.

She is on it.

She is on it.

And so is Jamie Raskin, who from Maryland, who I think is.

He looks like a nice man, doesn't he?

He was a teacher when I was a kid, when I was in school.

I knew him a long, long time ago, and then he became a congressman.

But he's super smart on these issues.

I think he'll be a big player here, a big talker.

Val Demings.

James Sensenbrenner is the ranking man from Wisconsin, who doesn't look like he knows a whole lot about tech, but we never know.

But guess who's on that?

Oh my God, I'm triggered.

Why?

Because he's older and white.

Why would you say that?

Why would you say that?

But I'll tell you someone who I definitely know is going to like wade in.

I think possibly Jim Jordan can appear here.

Jaya Powell.

She's a gangster.

Because

he's the head of the Judiciary Committee for the Minority.

But Matt Goetz,

I don't know what you would call Matt Goetz to Jim Jordan, but he is

his proxy.

I think Matt Goetz, who I think is, as you know, I call the fatuous chucklehead, will be there to talk about conservative bias.

And he will sort of muffle.

He actually might keep a low profile because of this ethics investigation.

Are you kidding?

He never does.

He never, literally, you know what's interesting about a Washington Post piece on him?

It's like he's a minor player in actual legislation, but he's a loud one otherwise.

I think he will be loud as can be in this hearing.

All the Republican members

look like the Augusta National Membership Committee.

Yeah, yeah.

And the Democrats look like Americans.

Five white guys, yeah.

And it's interesting, it's five white guys on this committee, and then

an Indian woman, a white guy,

an African-American woman, white woman.

I'm not sure.

I'm not going to just guess what Lucy McBeth, who's what's her.

I looked at it.

It's so interesting.

I don't even see color.

I don't even see it.

Well, you know what?

I hate when people say that.

That's not true.

It's not fair.

All right.

Any case, we'll see how that turns out in terms of where it goes.

I don't think they're, I think it'll be an interesting questioning.

I think the Republicans, this is my predictions, will stick to the market will take care of this.

We should keep our mitts off of this.

It's the most successful industry.

I think there will be much more on the tech side.

And then they will, of course, then say, but we'd like like you to not censor us because that's what you're actually doing, even though they're not.

That'll be their thing.

And I think the Democrats will focus on the money and the power, especially the money, how rich they've gotten, how much they've, and both of them will talk about how well these companies have done in the pandemic.

And I think

Tucker Carlson talked about this the other night.

So I think that's where you're going to see.

Amazon, what you'll hear over and over from Jeff Bezos are the following: $15 an hour.

We're pleased to announce we've raised, we didn't wait for the federal government, we've raised our minimum wage to $15 an hour.

We are hiring more people than any firm in history through this period.

He'll position himself as the great jobs creator.

He's very likable.

And he'll laugh two or three times.

And that'll be the moment.

And then the two words you are going to hear out of Mark Zuckerberg's mouth over and over and over.

I'll get back to you.

I'll get back to you, Congress.

No, the first word will be tick, and the second word will be talk.

And he's just going to say,

he's going to wrap himself in the American flag and say, Those

dangerous, AI-weaponized Chinese are coming for us, and we're your national champion to defend you.

And Tim Cook is probably going to be like, Why am I sitting here?

He'll just stay the hell out of this.

Stay out of this.

He'll just stay out of the way.

I'm a likable guy that likes Auburn football.

Yeah,

same as Sundar.

They're over there

in the we're just regular guys.

He's going to define these four individuals for Bezos,

for Zuckerberg, Bezos, and then what I'll call the other two, it'll be fire fellatio, stay the fuck out of the way.

It'll be,

they'll go after Zuckerberg.

They'll get the knee pads out for Bezos, and the other two guys will say, just stay, just don't say anything.

Let those guys go at it.

We're just here to look nice.

Yeah, and they are very likable as people and very, very,

they'll, you know, for a very, very powerful person, Sundar Pachai is extraordinary.

And he is also coming to school.

He is wading into school.

that's right he's showing up so he always shows up he's i like talking to him he's really uh

he came up you know what he came up from products came here on a student visa he did and he came up from products

Why I like him is he's a product guy and he was always the best product guy that I used to deal with around at Google or whatever it was.

He was always he worked on a whole bunch of different Google initiatives and important ones, including Chrome.

And I think I just really, I like a product person.

I do.

I do like a product.

That's why I like him.

In any any case in any case we will see what happens i i'm gonna i can't believe you just said that word fire blow jump

okay anyway of course why can't i believe it what am i talking about this is like what god why am i even surprised anyway scott i don't even remember what that is anyways i'm sorry go ahead what are you doing for the weekend we have to go

i'm headed out east to the beach uh new york feels a little bit muted for lack of a better word by the way tourism in new york is way off Not that you would think any different, but the city feels what one thing is really strange about the city, there are absolutely no children here.

Anyone with kids has gotten out of the city.

Anyways, I'm headed out to Montauk.

I'm going to have dinner at my favorite restaurant in the world, Crow's Nest.

Is it outside?

That's what I'm doing this weekend.

What are you doing?

I am,

my son is going.

My kids are away except for the baby.

And so I'm just going to hang out and do stuff because I'm going to go away the next weekend to write an outline for a book I am writing.

Where are you going?

And what are you writing a book on?

About you and our relationship.

Yeah, I'm going to tell all.

It's going to be great.

I'm going to take you down, Scott Galloway.

I'm going to take you down.

No, I'm writing a book that's my memoir.

50 shades of me.

There is no 50 shades with us.

Listen, I'm writing a book of my memoirs.

I'm doing two books.

It will be announced soon.

It will be announced.

I just announced it.

Hot for Daddy.

Hot for Daddy.

No, no, that is so not the title.

In any case,

I'm writing my memoir of Silicon Valley.

They really want it.

I know.

I have, yes, my memoir.

And then I have another book I'm working on.

It's hard to sell.

That was compelling.

Your memoirs.

I'm just telling you,

I did at quite a sum.

So there you have it.

In any case, I'm going to be working on that.

And then, of course, the new podcast.

And then I said to Carly Fiorina, your acquisition makes no sense.

And then she said, oh, that's a page turner.

That's a page turner.

And then then when I was done writing my first book on AOL

or whatever.

And calculus and epic.

And you carried me on the steps to my second of eighth wives.

I could write that book.

Seriously.

Yeah, you should.

Who should?

You could be my coach.

It's a ghostwriter.

It is good.

When it's a bestseller, by the way, my friend Amina Tao, who we've had on the show, she's a bestseller.

She's got all the bestsellers.

The friendship books.

She's going to be a guest host when you're gone away in August.

Even though we're doing school together, so how can I miss you if you won't go away?

I have four guest hosts that are coming on because you apparently need some free time and I don't.

August is when

the dog takes a run on the beach, chases him out.

Kara

never takes vacation.

Focuses on easier.

All right.

Okay.

Don't forget, if there's a story in the news that you're curious about and want to hear our opinion on, email us at pivot at boxmedia.com to be featured on the show.

Scott, you may may read us out this today's episode was produced by Rebecca Sinanis our executive producer is Erica Anderson today's sound engineer was Fernando Finette and special thanks to Drew Burroughs if you like what you heard please download the podcast word of mouth we appreciate your support we're doing really well and we look forward to seeing you hopefully at Pivot School please sign up seats are running out that's a lie the seats can't run out but anyways Kara have a great weekend and we'll speak to everyone next week.