Amazon suspends facial recognition technology, Starbuck’s closes 400 stores and a prediction on Apple and search

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Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

And I'm Scott Galloway.

Kara.

Is it okay for me to be vulgar again?

When do I get to be vulgar again?

Vulgar again.

You can be

vulgar.

You're always vulgar again.

Okay, fair enough.

Fair enough.

So

there's so many other areas you can be vulgar in.

I'm in my kid's room and I slip on some Legos and I hurt myself, Kara, and I have to go to one medical.

I have to go get some treatment.

And he says, Okay, so my son has all these figures of horses.

And it ends up I'd slipped on them and a bunch of them had gone up my ass.

And he said, That's the bad news, but the good news is you're stable.

Get it stable.

That's not, that's like a dad joke.

That's a dad joke of all the worst kind.

Let me just explain to me: Did you see the people making Legos out of us while listening to us?

That was pretty funny, wasn't it?

That was lovely, people making Legos and stuff like that.

Speaking of people upfetting us, the New York, the Wall Street Journal licked you up and down and back

up again.

Yes.

Oh, my God.

With the big picture?

Was there anything wrong with Scott Galloway?

You talked about your spoaming of coffee.

That was like the biggest, wettest kiss.

I was embarrassed.

You knew my alcohol abuse.

Yeah, it was.

But I want to get to the idea.

Congratulations, by the way.

You sounded great and you look great.

Thanks for that.

That's nice of you.

I think that's the nicest thing you've ever said.

You know, I just, I like, I'm going to give out little dollops of love to you today.

I appreciate it.

I know.

I have just had dental surgery, and so I'm

a lot of pain.

No, not high pain.

I don't do any pain medication.

But one of the things you said, you want to be the greatest business analyst in the history of the world.

Can you explain this to me?

Like in the world, like over Buffett or like others?

No, no, no, no, I didn't say that.

I said I wanted to be the most influential thought leader in the history of business, not just the world, in history.

I thought it was like a lot of people.

You're going to be a narcissist.

Put it on all caps, Carol.

I felt grandiose was part of that, but tell me, explain to me what that means to you.

What does that mean?

I want people to understand your vast and unquenchable ambition.

I want to provide, through thought leadership and teaching, more economic security for people and their families than any individual in history.

Okay.

All right.

And by the way, there's still time.

I'd also like to be a Broadway dancer and a Navy SEAL.

Serious.

I would like to do both those things.

The Navy SEAL.

I think it's important to have big, bold, audacious goals, right?

Really?

The Broadway dancer could happen.

I can see you.

Have you seen me dance?

Have you seen me dance?

I have the body of a dancer.

I just don't have the rhythm.

Oh, yes, you do.

I could see you could be good at dancing, but I could see that you're not.

I know who thinks I'm a great dancer.

Who?

Vodka.

All right, so a drunk dancing thought leader.

We are so excited, Daniel.

I think I am.

I'm excited.

I don't know what we have.

You know, there is Adam Grant out in front of you there, so you better like run fast.

I'm coming for that little bald-haired bitch from Wharton.

I am coming for you, Adam Grant.

You know, ultimately.

Other than intellect and credibility, he has nothing on me.

Ultimately, ultimately, Susie Ormond's going to kick both your asses.

And she's coming on our show soon.

She's good.

She's great.

She's good.

She's an island, you know, she's an island.

I like her.

I think she's an inspiring

tough broad, let me just tell you, in all the good ways.

Anyway, we're excited.

We're going to be talking to her soon about the recovery and how people can handle it.

But listen, a couple of things.

The Biden campaign is circulating a petition and a letter to Mark Zuckerberg to change Facebook's hands-off approach to political speech on the platform.

Nothing's going to happen.

What do you think about that?

Well, we predicted this, right?

The social media has now been fully politicized and Facebook is going red and the opportunity is for Twitter to go blue.

But Biden is going after Facebook as he realizes that Donald Trump has enlisted his favorite oligarch, Mark Zuckerberg, and said, I'll hands off as long as you hand me the election and then then like have a bunch of people feign concern.

So basically Facebook's going red and Facebook's going kind of Android and Twitter is going iOS.

And Twitter's opportunity,

again, we've been talking about this, is for them to go subscribe.

Smaller, smaller bit better, right?

Yeah, go after the 10 or 20%

of.

urban educated people are willing to pay for a social media platform.

And then, I mean, it's just shaping up.

The whole world is shaping up into iOS versus Android.

That's the one we're looking at, I work.

One where you have essentially a phone that's free for people who aren't wealthy, and in exchange, they get to molest your privacy.

I mean, that's basically what Android is.

And then iOS is, all right, the globally affluent get to have privacy, but they have to pay the equivalent of one month's household income in Turkey for a phone, for chipsets,

and sensors that cost $380 to assemble, and they can sell it for $1,400.

The whole world is going to iOS versus Android.

And basically it's happening in the middle.

It's what you would expect from a thought leader in the history of business.

The most influential in history, Kiera.

In history.

All right.

I think that's interesting.

I think you're right.

I think you're right.

100%.

Also, HBO Max pulled Gone with the Wind from its library until the company can provide some more historical context to go with the film.

What do you think of that?

What do you think of it?

I think it's fine.

Like, come on.

Like, you should have found it.

What's fine?

Is Gone with the Wind fine or is pulling it?

No, Gone with the Wind is full of racist tropes.

It's ridiculous when you watch it now.

What doesn't have racist tropes?

A lot of stuff.

You know what?

It's fine if they want to bring it.

There's a pretty book that came out two years ago in 20 years.

Do we delete that?

Do we cancel that?

All of these things are

different shades of racist.

Well, there's all those movies.

There is all those movies.

There's the help.

That goes on and on and on.

I think it's not.

I think, look, at this moment in time, it's not the worst thing.

Everyone goes crazy.

I can't get my Gone with the Wind.

By the way, nobody's watching Gone with the Wind but really old people, if at all, when it's on.

Did you know what I mean?

Did you see Gone with the Wind when you were a kid?

No, I saw it.

My mom did.

It's awful.

You know, nobody's watching it.

That's the thing.

It's like an argument of old people.

Like, if no young people are going to watch it anyway, and eventually will be.

I think the issue is a lot of this stuff, like the Confederate statues, they put them in museums.

Like we, we subject ourselves to context all the time.

So it's fine.

It's fine.

If they want to do that, it's perfectly fine.

And everyone losing their like mind over it isn't is something Megan Kelly did.

Come on.

I mean, I know you don't, yes, maybe we will put things on everything.

Maybe things shouldn't have things put on.

You know, who did it well?

Warner Brothers, a couple of years ago, had Whoopi Goldberg say, Look, parts of Looney Tunes are really gross.

And, you know, watch it in the spirit at the same time.

It's part of Americana.

Yeah.

And it was a different time and place.

And maybe you'll learn something or maybe you'll think it's funny, but just be aware.

And I think everyone, like, people act like they're so inconvenienced that they just have to listen for a second.

And they do it everywhere else.

They do it in museums.

They do it.

So, so what?

So what?

It's a big so what.

I saw your tweet on that.

I thought that was interesting, but there's a difference between

adding context to things, especially cartoons that kids watch.

They didn't censor it.

It's not, it's still available.

And pulling stuff down.

I mean, that's because they, at this moment in time, Scott, I know you're all being inconvenient.

But it's easy to always talk about this moment in time.

I mean, remember, and this is,

remember when they started blowing up statues in the Middle East?

The mullahs, whoever in power, thought they were blasphemous?

Yes.

At some point, everyone's going to find every statue uncomfortable.

And I think communities and people should have the right

to pull down things when they vote on it.

But this mentality that

I think there's something to be learned from offensive media.

I think there's something that says put up as a giant fuck you to black people and Jim Crow type.

I agree.

You know what?

Nobody voted to put them up.

So no, I'm going to.

No.

I agree.

I think Confederate flags should be pulled down.

But this notion that we're going to start content that is offensive,

I think there's a danger here.

And that is, I think there's more to be learned from look how just kind of fucked up in the head we were back then.

I think there's opportunity.

Absolutely, but

without having context, you can't have that.

I'll tell you, I'm going to make you watch a film called The Celluloid Closet.

I'm going to get away from.

I've seen The Celluloid it.

Do you understand why people hate gay people when watching that?

I made my mother, I have sat her down and made her watch it.

You know, it's an interesting time.

I just think people getting all exercised over this because nobody ever wants to watch Gone with the Women unless it's on late at night and you don't ever watch the whole thing.

And by the way, young people, my son was like, what's gone with the wind?

Like, it doesn't even matter, you know, but

it is an interesting time.

And I think, again, this was, we'll get to our big story in a second because this is something that just happened recently.

But audrey gelman is stepping down as ceo of the wing there are a lot of uh issues of people stepping down uh all over the place it looks like ceos are falling like flies um they the the staff uh staged a virtual walkout claiming the company's not practicing intersectional feminism as promised we've talked about this i'm gonna i'm sure i'm gonna get shit for this what is intersectional feminism as usual you're offensive but here's the deal in in in usa today they had a very good example of it in a story they did last year if feminism is advocating for women's rights and equality between the sexes, intersexual feminism is the understanding of how women's overlapping identities, including race, class, ethnicity, religion, and sexual orientation, impact the way they experience oppression and discrimination.

Essentially, it's paying attention to someone beyond yourself.

Essentially, they have when you have

stated values and you don't keep up with them, whatever they have.

Isn't that just hypocrisy?

Isn't that

sandburging, prostituting a social cause for your own immigration?

Wasn't she sandburging?

No,

yes.

I guess if you want to use, I'm not, I don't love your verb, but yes, I guess that's what,

but you know, and also, by the way, the business is screwed too, FYI.

It was already, you know,

yeah, I know, like, it's interesting.

It's just an interesting time for some of these businesses.

I think probably they're like, let's do a rethink here on how we want to do things.

And I think that's really what's going on.

But it's really remarkable how much

this is a really interesting, it's a very interesting for people to really reconsider how they behave and stuff.

You saw Anna Winter did it, which I think everybody like piled on her.

What did Anna Winter do?

Oh, she was like, I've noticed I haven't helped black creators, and I really feel bad about that.

And of course, everyone's like, what?

Like,

you have to look at it.

You go, go watch it.

I think I'm not going to go into it.

Go watch it.

Everybody should be aware of all these different things that are happening, but it's, but people are trying to sort of apologize in advance, I think, is what's happening.

It didn't work for Anna Winter.

I think she's kind of, it was a clottish attempt to

negate her entire history.

Yeah, Yeah, but look at this co-working print magazines.

It's sort of like, who's next?

You know, like, whoever's making buggy whips is going to come out as not having help.

Important thing, I'm going to interrupt you.

Big stories.

Amazon and IBM are ending their facial recognition technology products.

In a letter written to Congress this week, the company's CEO, Arvind Krishna, wrote that they would no longer be offering images and technology to law enforcement and support efforts in police reform and more responsible use of the technology.

There have been several studies showing that facial recognition recognition technologies are biased against people with black and brown skin and can cause harm when used by law enforcement.

Later in the week, Amazon released a statement saying they would be implementing a one-year moratorium on police use of their facial recognition technology.

They also called on Congress to make stronger regulations.

Law enforcement agencies around the country contract with

Clearview AI, a startup that scrapes images posted around the internet to identify people from sources like security viewers.

You know, I did this long you were there interview with Andy Jassy of AWS, and I was pressing him on this very issue, and

he seemed to be like nothing to see here.

Now, what do you imagine is happening, Scott?

You know, I think Amazon, I think a lot of big tech has seen many of these issues recently and

the attention being placed on these issues as an opportunity for redemption.

And I think that they look at the economic upside versus the opportunity.

I think they look at it through a shareholder lens, as a lot of people would argue that.

And they they say, what is the upside here of facial recognition technology as it relates to our shareholder growth versus our ability to come

to basically start our hat white?

I think when Tim Cook says that privacy is a basic human right, he may believe that, but he's also depositioning his competitors, Facebook and Google, who are totally focused on molesting your data as core to their business model, back to the notion of this.

Can you wait for away from molest?

But go ahead, keep going.

Also, you know, and the question, and I am asking asking this to learn because I understand I know you're very concerned about this but if law enforcement can use your DNA or forensics why shouldn't they be allowed to use facial recognition technology it's not that they shouldn't be allowed to use it I think DNA was really bad for a long time and you saw those people that were convicted and then later take I mean I think it's in a stage where it just doesn't work right and especially

it's error prone and I think they it may not be error prone going out the door but then law enforcement agencies using it use it badly and because it's a question of life or death it has to be perfect or almost nearly perfect and i think witnesses aren't perfect what part no part of the dictatorial process is

this isn't witnesses this is like you're giving people technology that people can act on and make bad decisions this is you know this is like their car is blowing up like their oops like that kind of stuff i think are their guns not firing correctly or whatever uh whatever no idea what that means you're

blowing up or you're not well i'm just saying they a lot of their equipment is supposed to work and their their technology is supposed to work they should use almost no guns anymore i think a lot of people are sort of sick of their use of guns but they they when they buy any equipment um they need to um they need it needs to work and this is equipment and technology and this stuff you know there's been so many there's the aclu thing with with recognition and i think amazon's sort of shoving the ball to congress now there should be definitely in this area there should be national um legislation of course now it's being piecemeal san San Francisco will have like ban it.

Another area doesn't.

And so I think they have to think that this is a national discussion, in my view.

And a lot of the people, I interview the guy who does most of the body camps on people's police, and he doesn't want facial recognition in there.

He doesn't think it's ready for prime time.

And so, you know, these are people that are in the business and understand how quickly it can be abused or not abused as much as badly used.

And so I don't think it's interesting that they did this one-year moratorium.

And then, why now?

Why did they, after being harangued by me and many others way before me, they decide to do now?

And you're right, it's this waiting for the protests to die down or just it looks good on a press release.

I don't know what, I'd like to know why they made the decision now.

I'd like to see what the decision-making process was.

It would be nice for transportation.

I think there's a deeper issue, and it goes to these bailouts, which I think are going to undermine one of the core problems here.

And that is a loss of trust in our institutions and our government.

Because you talked about DNA being wrong.

DNA has also

correctly corrected the record and freed a lot of inmates who were incorrectly prosecuted.

So, science, you know, science is a, I think, is a wonderful thing, both in terms of crime prevention, prosecution, and also exonerating people who are wrongly accused and sometimes jailed for decades.

So, I get that we have to be careful around because it's science saying that it's binary, that it's 100%

when it isn't.

But I think it goes to this notion that people are losing faith in our institutions because the people running our institutions or our elected leaders are quite frankly undermining them.

You know, when you have Bill Barr, the attorney general, the head of the DOJ, say that there's evidence of all these far-left groups, and then the data comes out, and this hasn't gotten enough oxygen.

The data is showing we now have some data, people who have been prosecuted, arrested, and prosecuted for really sowing violence and destruction at these protests.

Most of them don't have any affiliation.

And the only ones that they could find that were affiliated with any group were affiliated with far-right groups.

Yeah, that's right.

And

when you have elected leaders undermining and overrunning your institutions, we begin to lose faith in our institutions and say we just don't trust them to handle any sort of science.

And it's a real, it's a shame because science is an incredible tool for both people who should be prosecuted and people who should not be prosecuted.

It can also declare people's innocence.

Yes, I agree, but it has to, I think facial recognition technology shouldn't be made so badly that it can't recognize correctly people of color.

I just like they're putting stuff out the door that doesn't work on all citizens.

And especially when people of color are at such risk of being misidentified,

you know, it's just, they cannot get this wrong.

They cannot.

And the fact that they let a product out the door that does this or when used, you know, they need to anticipate their products.

And again, Scott, I don't think they need to anticipate every problem, but boy, should it work on everybody's faces and people of color.

Same thing with AI.

Boy, should it, you know, the data that's going in

work, you know, not be data that creates the same problems.

And so I think

my issue with Amazon, and I know they're like, well, let, let Congress, you know, they're always like, let Congress do this.

I'm like, why don't you put out technology that doesn't appear to be so flawed?

And, or, And they tended to point the finger at police at the time, not using it out of the, if you don't use it this way,

you know, you could, it won't work kind of stuff.

But why doesn't it, why does it always not work that way and put people who are already at risk in general with police, with law enforcement in even more risk or more problems that would lead to it.

And, you know, you don't, you don't need one of these is one too many.

It's interesting that IBM moved in here because IBM's not a big player here.

So it was sort of a, you know, I think you call it virtue signaling kind of thing because they're not a player.

But Amazon certainly is the most important player in this area, although there's several different players here.

Yeah, I just love, I mean, just from a pure self-esteem, I love biometrics.

I don't have shoes with shoelaces.

I don't, I purposely try never to have passwords on anything, which I realize makes me a target.

And I don't own, I don't have keys.

And I love the idea of a biometric world where it recognizes your face, your fingerprint for access to everything.

I just spend, I think people spend so much time and it's such a hassle, this notion of this false sense of security.

I've never understood locks.

If somebody wants to get into your house, they're going to get in.

I've just never understood it.

Yeah, I agree.

Well, but biometrics can be abused.

You know what I mean?

And of course, you don't, I have to say, you don't think this way.

Right, because I have the privilege of being a man that doesn't feel unsafe.

Right.

And I'm not 100%.

I get to walk around with a sense of security that the majority of population doesn't have that luxury.

Or even anticipating problems.

There was one of my favorite movies.

It's called Barbed Wire with Pamela Anderson.

It's about

you need to sidle up to your giant couch in your beautiful home and watch this movie.

It is about the future where they look at your eyeballs.

It was way long time ago.

I remember it riveting me.

And

there was eyeball trading in it.

I don't even remember that.

That was a minority report.

Yeah, that was, but this was before that.

It was called Barbed Wire.

And she ran a bar, and she was sort of like, you know, the Casablanca character.

And then she ends up being good.

You know, she's like, yeah, just take my, I'll take your money and this and that.

But

and then she ends up helping the rebels or whatever the version of that.

She's a deeply misunderstood artist, Pamela Anderson.

I have to say, I've watched Barbed Wire so many times, I can't believe I've spent time.

She's connected with Pam Anderson, I think.

I have no information about her.

But anyway, this idea that it could be, I do do imagine a world where it could be woefully misused.

And I know there's all kinds of point of information, but biometric takes it to a DNA.

I was an early user of Clear.

I signed up when Steve Brill started it.

And I never thought at the time, I remember going down there to take the picture, which is still in the system, which is super old.

And I was really...

fascinated by it more than worried about it at the time.

Now I'm like...

I love Claire.

Don't you love Claire?

I do.

I do.

I do.

But I still, when it was started started to get bought and sold, I started, you know, they had some, some financial troubles and everything.

And so when that happened, I was like, oh, goodness, they have my, and then I thought, well, I'm done.

I'm like, I'm in, I'm, I'm in barbed wire now because they have my, they have my eyeballs.

But the notion,

the idea, I don't think you can put technology back in a bottle.

I don't think that's, I don't think that's the answer.

I think the answer is to have a slow thinking public institutions really think through how do you regulate it but i think the notion that we're gonna just kick down the road kick the can down the road and stop investing in the technology or not understand it as well i don't know if that works i wonder i worry the bad actors don't don't seize their investment in it and use it for less um less benign purposes but i i would love clear to run my life i think they do a great job and i just it's also but the dark side of clear is it's the further casting of our society where if you don't have money if you can't afford business class if you don't fly a lot you end up waiting in line for three hours at an airport and then if you're 1k you get this line and then finally if you're clear and you have an american express card you get to get to your plane in two minutes versus two hours it's it's more and more segmentation of our society based on wealth which is one of the attributes of a capitalist society but it's just getting it feels like it's getting out of control yeah absolutely i feel badly when i go through that line although i oddly enough i got it so early i pay almost nothing for it because i was one of the early very early users of it i didn't know that was stephen brill he's the media guy right Yeah, yeah.

He's a creative thinker.

He just wrote me.

I haven't looked at the email, but I just saw his name pop up.

He's like, Carrie, I'd like to talk to you about this new thing I'm doing.

And of course, I'll listen to him because he's such an interesting person.

All right, Scott, let's take a quick break and we'll be back to talk coffee.

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All right, Scott, we're back.

We're talking about Starbucks.

They have closed down 400 stores in North America.

You know, there's been a Starbucks in every corner kind of stuff

that's been going on.

And,

you know, they've been trying to do various things.

And

you can order.

They've done a lot of mobile stuff.

They've been heavy into mobile already and mobile ordering.

And they've done a pretty good job.

They opened up a whole bunch of stores.

But what do you think this means?

It's the same thing, the contraction of retail, essentially.

Yeah, well,

back to this notion that COVID-19 isn't a change agent, but an accelerant.

And something I've been working with companies on is that look at every trend, take the two or three biggest trends in your business and then extrapolate them out 10 years.

And that's where the consumer is right now, what's happened in the last eight weeks.

And companies, there's a lag.

Companies in terms of their capital allocation and the moves they're used to making.

And there isn't so far a recognition that what has gotten you here today is what's required to get you where you need to be.

And if you look at Starbucks, which has always been,

they're an incredibly impressive company.

Starbucks has got great management, great DNA, very forward-looking.

You know, the first company that said it's about, it's about moving from pre-purchase, running ads, you know, good to the last drop, and about the purchase and creating this unbelievable experience, not only through real estate, but through workers that are happier.

They spend more money on benefits than they spend on coffee beans.

And that app you were talking about is borderline revolutionary.

If you look at the amount of money that's preloaded onto the Starbucks app, I think they're the seventh largest bank in America.

It is incredible.

I got to tell you, it's a great app.

It's a great app.

I always am like, I never have problems with the Starbucks app, except if it signs me out and I don't remember, you know, what I've called myself.

It's run by a tech guy, and he certainly has been, right now it is, I've took over from Howard Schultz and others.

And

it's really interesting.

Is it a digital company or is it an analog company?

Because it's always been like you're on one corner and you looked across the street and there was another Starbucks because they did all this mathematical figuring about walking and things like that.

So they've always been a tech forward company.

What does it mean for companies like Starbucks?

Because you're going to see you see specialties went away,

you know, a lot of store closings, people are moving out of malls.

Is there such a a thing about going to a Starbucks anymore?

Is it all going to be ordering in advance?

It'll just be accelerated.

It was already moving that way where I think, I'm not sure, but I think it's 20 or 30% of their purchases now go through the app.

And if you look at an organization like Restoration Hardware, 95% of their gross merchandise volume goes through their loyalty program.

You could see it's just going to accelerate.

Wherever they thought they were going to be in 10 years in terms of their store footprint, the skills they need, where where they allocate capital, they should be now.

And they're doing that.

They looked at their store footprint and said, where would it be in 10 years?

Because 10 years, we've had a decade in weeks.

And they've decided to dramatically shrink their square footage.

I would bet a lot of those stores were still profitable.

And they've decided that they're going to, it also gives them more leverage negotiating their leases.

It says that we can't.

They already had done.

Is that right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you have, you have, I mean, it is just so, it's just crazy when you talk to these companies.

Their general attitude is that what's happened here is cyclical and that we're going to get out of it.

It's not.

It's structural.

10 years.

Where were all these trends going to be in 10 years impacting your business?

Well, we are there.

And

how would you expect to be or look different

in 10 years?

Who else is like this?

Starbucks, he had already been experimenting around coffee machines that are easier to use.

I had a long talk with him about coffee machines, which is all about the technology of getting these

drinks made more quickly, you know what I mean, in terms of and better, better tasting.

What other businesses, like, look, the CEO of Patagonia stepped down.

I'm not really clear.

I guess she was accelerating what was, this is what they were saying.

The company's saying this.

I know her pretty well.

She's really quite a fascinating character.

And of course, it's owned by one guy.

The whole thing is owned by one guy who is sort of probably running.

She's a very strong CEO, but he's the decision maker, obviously.

What happens to all these?

Like, when do companies decide they have do they have to have a retail presence or not at all

the future is multi-channel and and it's going to meet in the middle it's just the ratio of spend around um uh tertiary versus digital the the the ratio is just getting flipped and you're going to see whatever your percentage of offline versus online sales is just going to dramatically move the most significant transition is taking place in what is arguably the largest consumer category in the world other than maybe healthcare healthcare, and that's U.S.

grocery, where we're going to go from 1.8%

of retail sales, of grocery sales done online to somewhere between probably 15 and 20.

And when you're talking about a three-quarters of a trillion dollar market, you're talking about $100 to $150 billion

in transactions all of a sudden switching from one channel to the other, which creates massive opportunity and disruption.

Think about cold storage.

Like where do they leave your cabbage and your milk when they get to your house?

Think about pick and pack

technologies.

Think about apps.

It's just a milkman, Scott.

There you go.

I am just signing up for a milkman.

He's all full.

The milkman here.

And I always like the idea of a milkman.

And there's a couple of businesses who do this.

We're just like going crazy in terms of that.

And that you're right.

There's a little box that you put stuff in.

I mean, it's so funny because that was like the milkman was put out of business by grocery stores, essentially.

But they have other things, you know, cheese, bread, fresh eggs, all the fresh stuff.

And obviously, Amazon sort of, you know, comes up the rear with all the hard goods or the, or

I, I have to say, the other day, I was like, I have not gone to a store in a long time and I am not, I buy every, I like, I think of something in the house and I go on Amazon or wherever.

I went to container store.

I went to somewhere else.

I was looking for an umbrella for the porch.

I'm not going to stores, I don't think, very much.

And I, I, I don't go to a lot of stores, but I'm absolutely not going to stores now.

Like, I can can see everything online.

The merchandising has gotten a lot better.

You know, the milkman, like it's a milkman moment, like the milkman.

Yeah, there'll be niche providers.

We have down here in Florida, we have this individual who's each day he goes out and he goes out to the second or the third reef off the coast and he catches fish fresh and he puts out an email saying, this is what we have.

And then he drops off this ridiculously fresh fish.

And I wondered, is that going to replace Whole Foods fish?

I mean, it's just,

there's going to be niche offerings and then there's going to be the platform that kind of offers it all and brings it to you.

And it's probably going to be Amazon or Walmart.

I think they're going to consolidate

the marketplace.

Yeah, it's interesting.

And also, some of the stuff, though, what goes away and what stays?

You have to be like this wonderful retailer or what is it that like I do go to my hardware store because I like wandering through my heart.

It's an experiential thing.

I'm not sure what it is.

And if I don't find it there, I then order from Amazon because I often am like, I'd rather give them money for one.

And two, I like it.

I actually enjoy myself in the hardware store.

Same thing with restaurants.

Totally inappropriate for me to make a lesbian joke, right?

Yes, go right ahead.

I haven't.

I'm just, I don't think that way.

I thought you wanted to be vulgar.

Be vulgar.

Go and be vulgar.

I don't think that way.

Oh, yeah.

Anyways, you and Home Depot.

I'm sorry.

No, I don't like Home Depot.

It's too big.

I like my Home Depot.

What do you like better than the Home Depot?

I think Home Depot is a wandering.

It's too big.

I wander, wander, wander.

I think I'm going to die in there and then they'll never find me back in the long run.

Her chop is such a well-run company.

Oh, I don't like Home Depot.

So,

what little niche hardware store do you like?

It's a Logan, it's in Logan Circle.

It's called, it's an ACE hardware.

It's just great.

I like the people.

They're quirky and interesting.

They're always helpful.

The customer service is fantastic.

And if I don't find it there, I then find it on Amazon.

And I usually find it there.

It's interesting.

But not everything, not everything.

And the selection isn't enough for sure.

Now I have massive selection.

But I always do an Amazon search before I go now, which is interesting, see if I like something better.

But on a lot of things, I can just get there, like nails or nails, essentially.

But last question before we go and go to predictions.

What would work retail?

Is it restaurants?

Because I do miss sitting in restaurants.

I like a restaurant.

I don't like a bar.

I don't drink.

But those I don't see me doing less of at all with delivery.

I'm so tired.

I don't think I want anything delivered again for the next.

three months.

Oh, restaurants are going to get crushed, Kara.

I know they are, but I'm trying to think.

Tell me one thing.

I want a positive thing for you to predictions.

What in the retail space doesn't get killed or have to go almost completely digital?

The stuff that's experiential, maybe a Sephora or restoration hardware, the stuff where it going is,

you know, calls on your DOPA, stuff that makes you feel, A, that is not crowded, and B, is you go for the people, not for the products.

And that is when you go into a Sephora, you go in for the people, you go in for the cast members.

When you go to restoration hardware, you go to feel

that seventh floor restaurant where they have wine and it's just beautiful and sunny and you kind of envision what your home might look like.

I think places like that, the experience stuff, but we have, I think, 18 square feet per person

of square foot of retail in the U.S.

And like London has three.

I mean, we're just so radically overstored that this isn't doing anything different.

It's just if someone had said, where would we be again in 10 years?

It's going to look like where we're going to be next year.

So, but I don't, I don't, it's a very very interesting question.

What the guys that get really hard, hit really hard are especially retail apparel.

And then, and then anything, you want to talk about industries that are just getting killed.

It's just so weird.

Anything we sit shoulder to shoulder, whether it's sports, restaurants, education, my industry is going to, you can't imagine

the tension and conversations we're having.

Harvard's going digital.

Well, I mean, but look at Harvard.

Harvard has to lay off people with $40 billion.

Can you imagine what's happening everywhere else?

Scott, your predictive nature has come to the forefront and we're going to take a quick break and you're going to make some more predictions when we get back.

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Charlie Sheen is an icon of decadence.

I lit the fuse and my life turns into everything it wasn't supposed to be.

He's going the distance.

He was the highest paid TV star of all time.

When it started to change, it was quick.

He kept saying, no, no, no, I'm in the hospital now, but next week I'll be ready for the show.

Now, Charlie's sober.

He's going to tell you the truth.

How do I present this with any class?

I think we're past that, Charlie.

We're past that, yeah.

Somebody call action.

Yeah.

Aka Charlie Sheen, only on Netflix, September 10th.

Okay, Scott, we're living in unpredictable times, but you've done a very good predicting things, like the school stuff.

What do you think our lives are going to look like a year from now?

I want you to be like a little nostradamacy here.

Oh, I don't.

I mean, we're going to need a bigger boat for that.

My prediction for today is more around

big tech.

I think there's going to be some very interesting,

I think some border skirmishes break out.

Specifically, I think big tech is going to start

making some fairly bold moves.

I think you could see Apple go into search.

They didn't tweet at us saying we weren't going to be able to do that.

Yeah, saying that they really didn't appreciate us mocking Duck, Duck, Go, that they thought that was damaging, that we rag on big tech and we're

roll me into you because I was like, no, it's really good to have a class.

I was like, I did not say that.

It was Scott Galloway.

I literally.

I'm with a dog, you're a hound.

I apparently, but go ahead.

So, okay, Apple.

The other gangster move I think that would be really interesting if Twitter doesn't get its shit together and move to subscription is I think there's an enormous opportunity for LinkedIn to start a Twitter competitor.

LinkedIn.

Well, think about this.

And again, it goes back to the notion.

It goes back to the notion that advertising really is the tobacco that causes the cancer in media.

And that is LinkedIn isn't being weaponized.

It isn't tearing us apart.

It's a powerful social media platform.

Why?

Because a third of the revenue comes from subscriptions.

A third of it comes from individuals who want to pay for more access or have more in-mail opportunities, and only a third comes from advertising.

What do you know?

LinkedIn isn't totally fucking up the world.

It's a Microsoft property.

You know, I'm going to bring in Jeff Weiner dog to talk about it.

His name's Jeff Weiner.

He used to work with Yahoo.

He's very impressive.

He is.

And he's the only thing, though, is I always, when we're on the stage, I'm like, what's it like to be a division?

of Microsoft.

He's like, we are LinkedIn.

He never will say a division.

And I always go, a division of Microsoft.

By Tuba, Microsoft.

And he's like, and I'm CEO of LinkedIn.

He's a really clever man.

He used to work for Warner Brothers.

He's had a long

time he is.

So you think they would start a Twitter?

Well, I think something.

So my prediction is the following.

In the next 60 days, there is a frightening declaration of border skirmish is going to turn out to

all-out war.

Either Apple is going to take advantage of their access to the consumer and the fact that they own the Rails and introduce

a more direct competitor to Google.

Because right now they make about six or seven billion dollars in free cash flow by having Google be their default search.

Yeah.

They could buy DuckDuckGo and start offering their own search, or you could see if Twitter doesn't bust a move quickly and take advantage of their opportunity to go after basically wealthier blue state cohorts and offer a subscription service, I think the opportunity is for LinkedIn to start a microblogging platform that is more clean, more pure, more starts professional, but moves to media.

But it's not crazy then.

You don't get Tom Cotton yelling at you like I had today from my clients.

Connor Cotton Cotton was yelling at you?

Oh, yeah.

That's a badge of honor.

You're just boasting now.

No.

You're just boasting.

I know.

But I was just thinking.

Does he understand intersectional feminism?

Does he get where feminism intersects with feminism?

What the fuck does that mean?

How about intersectionality?

They have excellent courses at NYU on this.

I hear they're online.

Oh, my God.

I am a living, living lesson in intersectional masculinity.

You take Sialis, Zacapa, and a little stealy dad Asia.

Boom!

The dog is ready to play.

It's go time, Kara.

It's go time.

You are intersectional on the best.

Listen to me.

I don't know what will happen to her because you got Tom Gotten being crazy here.

You got the president talking about the Confederacy and today the SS somehow we got.

Oh, you know, it was a gangster move, though.

You did not see that coming.

The chairman, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, I think you mentioned him, General Millie.

Yeah, but you know something?

These guys have code.

He went on and said it was a mistake for him to be in that photo.

What was he doing there?

He should have known it was was a mistake when he you know what come on he he how many other people how many other people in the trump administration have stood up and said this was a mistake well and he'll probably lose his job over it yeah men and women in uniform have something no one in this administration happened they have code yeah well then we're gonna have like stephen miller like run in the military at some point whatever yeah

that on that note he's writing a speech about racism that's really that's a that's a speech i don't want to hear but i'm saying let me get back before we finish is

What happens then to Twitter?

Who buys that?

Who wants to touch that while he's still in there making a mess?

Or, you know, yeah, who wants to?

You don't need to.

Twitter has an enormous opportunity here.

Zero to a thousand followers free.

A thousand to twenty-five thousand followers, ten bucks a month.

And then it goes up to if you're Kim Kardashian, you have to pay $25,000 a month, which she would pay because she's getting $30,000 per sponsor tweet.

I wouldn't pay that much.

Oh, yes, you would.

No, I wouldn't.

Oh, sure you would.

I don't have that.

You're addicted to Twitter, and it's a very powerful platform for you.

You wouldn't pay 50 bucks a month for Twitter?

I might.

That I might.

And guess what?

They're not making 50 bucks a month off you of advertising.

And if they, even if they have a reduction in revenues, which they will in the short term, if they could hold on to 50 to 60% of their revenues, they would have a much higher market valuation.

Are you mounting with friends of yours, rich friends in the Wall Street area?

I think you're mounting them.

Oh, I've disclosed this.

I'm a Twitter shareholder.

And if they don't move to a subscription, if they don't move, Twitter at $100 a share is on less revenue than they are now moving to a subscription model that's growing faster than every other platform.

Now they've got that money.

They've got Silverlight came in and saved them.

Yeah, Ezon Jurgen or Edon

Durbin.

Edon Durbin.

He's very intersectional.

He's an intersectional headfundist.

I am going to, I'm going to send you some.

In fact,

I'm going to let you, I'm going to send you some literature that you are going to read for our next gathering.

Literature I'm going to read.

Why thank you, fair lady from Gone with the Wind.

Oh, my God.

On that note.

Frankly, frankly, Kara, I don't give a damn what intersectional feminist literature you send me.

Oh, God.

I just don't even know what to do.

All right.

We got to sign out here.

We got to go.

Don't forget if there's a story in the news you're curious about and want to hear our opinion on, email us at pivot at boxmedia.com being featured on the show.

Read us out, Scott.

Today's episode was produced by Rebecca Sonas.

Our executive producer is Eric Anderson.

Our sound engineer is Fernando Finette.

If you like what you heard, please subscribe, download, comment, send us an email.

Also, thanks to Drew Burroughs.

We'll see you next week for a breakdown of all things tech and business.

Have a good weekend, Karen.

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