Sean Hannity has a meltdown. Twitter, Facebook and Google tackle misinformation. Softbank abandons WeWork. PLUS Quibi gets a break.

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Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

And Kara, you have, this is Scott Galloway.

You literally broke the internet.

So, Sean Hannity

put out nine tweets.

I have never been this jealous.

Sean Hannity has put out.

No, it's not nine.

He did a bunch last night, but I don't know who you're talking about.

I have no idea who you're talking about.

Well, he's supposedly

in TV.

He claims he's not a journalist, and he claims he's been warning America and the world about COVID-19, despite

giving the president platform to call it a hoax and bringing anyone on who will say that we're having a hysterical reaction.

You've really got under his skin.

I don't know.

You know, I was so surprised.

Look, this is a column I wrote about my mom, and it's about Fox News parents, really, which is, you know, they're in the foxhole is the joke among people who have parents who love Fox News.

And so she had been ignoring a lot of my bothering her and my brother, who's a doctor, about COVID-19.

And we kept, she's in Florida by herself and with some friends, but she kept going out and she's going to restaurants.

And long after you needed to, like you needed to do something about it.

And Florida just yesterday shut down, so, which is just amazing.

It took so long.

But,

you know, we had been saying, why don't you stay in?

Please don't go out to restaurants.

And she kept doing it.

And I kept sending her charts.

And she was irritated by me.

And it's just a column about that, about that, that most of the news she got and almost all of it is Fox News.

And particularly

people like Sean Hannity, who had not everyone on the network was doing that.

Tucker Carlson was putting out very good information about the dangers.

And I was super fair in this column.

I was like, look, she is a news consumer and responsible herself.

But, and I even said at the top of it, you know, I'm not going to sue you, Sean Hannity.

And I was referring to a lot of people thinking they should be sued.

And I said, I don't think they should be sued.

It's just they're bad at their job and they have a first amount right to be bad at their jobs.

And he just went literally, I was the most fair you could be to someone who deserves almost no fairness in this regard.

And he just went crazy.

He started tweeting in the morning and then he went on his radio show.

I didn't listen to most of it because my mom did it for me because she enjoys it.

And then he went on his TV show last night, apparently.

And then he tweeted when he finished his TV show.

It was, and everyone seemed to be delighted that he

melted down.

And I find it disturbing and depressing that he did.

But it's not disturbing.

No, it's been depressing.

Let me just review.

He called you an incompetent, lazy, and a hypocrite.

And I got to be honest, that made me a little bit happy.

I don't think it's true.

I don't think it's true.

And it's strange because Fox is generally so generous to lesbian icons of media.

They're usually,

they're usually very generous and magnanimous.

You know,

the good folks over at Fox.

But the thing he has issued a challenge, and I think we should call him, and he said in his rant, I mean,

I'm not joking.

This is a moment for you because

you've gotten under the second most powerful man in the world's skin.

And for some reason, you have really pissed him off.

So this is a big moment for you.

But he said something and I think we should accept the challenge.

He said that he will hold up his timeline against yours.

And that is, his timeline is actually quite similar to you.

It's just about 14 days behind yours.

You were telling me when I was said, oh, no, we're going to South by Southwest.

You were like humming and a hawing and saying, I don't know, Scott.

I'm not sure.

So you were actually out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Some of it's because I think you're a germaphone and a little strange, but you were actually out in front of this and you were pretty.

I still don't think I was out in front early at all.

you know what i mean like i had an argument

but but i definitely was interviewing ron clain by very early on and we had we had uh that epidemiologist on the show in late february and february 25th so i agree i think but this guy is it's ridiculous it's a ridiculous all of this is coming down to a very simple

a very simple methodology around investigation and that is what did you know and when did you know it and you're saying and i understand

you're saying saying that the primary kind of kevlar here with all media is first amendment that they have a right to express their opinion what i yeah i don't think that's i think i don't think that's the that's the issue here i think the issue here is that we're going to find that all of the people saying go to the pub all of the people saying this is a hoax all of the people like devin all of the people on fox putting out talking points around how this has been this is nothing but an attempt to embarrass the president and minimizing the risks you're going to find that these were the people

wearing masks, distancing like crazy and showering in Purel and broadcasting from home.

That as they were telling the U.S.

public, I just,

at some point, does negligence

become reckless, become malfeasance, become some sort of,

you know, some form of involuntary or reckless endangerment of other people's lives.

Because I just don't believe,

I think these people, these people, isn't that terrible?

I think a lot, I think the people at Fox are very smart.

I think they're very good at what they do.

And I think anyone who has an IQ over 80, and they all clearly read you in the New York Times, they were all reading the New York Times, they were all talking to Dr.

Anthony Fauci, must have seen what was coming here.

And yet they were telling their consumer base, which average age is 69.

So they have an older consumer base.

They have a consumer base that's in Red States.

They literally have the most vulnerable consumer base to the virus.

They were telling them, hey, don't worry, head out.

Head out.

Head back to work.

Yeah, the whole, yeah, that was the issue was with my mom.

She kept saying the talking points.

And I had to go to Fox to see because, you know, most of the time she argues about whether Nancy Pelosi's in the tank or whatever.

I hear she's drunk or that Joe Biden is addled.

She has all, you know, after a while, that just becomes tiresome noise in the background of her watching that stuff.

But when she started to spew non-correct health information, especially my brothers on the front lines of this in San Francisco, like around that it's just like the flu, Kara.

It's not a big deal.

The media are spinning it.

It's the Democrats trying to score political points.

The only one of the ones that she didn't spew was this idea that Trump was a victim because, you know, she alternately doesn't like him and he amuses her.

You know what I mean?

Like, but it was really amazing.

And even last night, she was tweeting me saying, oh, look, Fox News is way up and MSNBC is down.

She's still in their camp.

I'm fine.

If she wants to live over there in that place, that's fine.

But when they put bad health information in front of her, that was my point.

I spent a lot of hours trying to get her to stop going out.

And the fact that I had to, and I think I experienced a lot of people had.

And I was just reflecting that.

And for, and even I said, you don't even, I don't think you should sue him because I think they have the right to be bad at their jobs.

But it literally, unless, you know, there's some email saying, let's be bad at our jobs.

I don't know.

I don't, I can't imagine any

way I would sue him.

On top of it, like he goes crazy and then says, she wants to sue me.

And I was like, literally, the first lines are, I do not want to sue you.

And why?

So just this, this, this like man baby really is just, it's, he's a man baby.

According to the Daily Beast, you called him a windbag of rage.

A windbag of rage.

And then actually, oh, wait, oh, that's what I usually reserve for you.

This, uh, this, I'm just a windbag.

It's, it's a mix of, it's a mix of rage and love.

So

the Daily Beast goes on to say, Swisher is a celebrated and supremely well-connected tech and media journalist, a formidable figure in silica.

I just threw up in my mouth.

That's it.

Oh my God.

It's true, though.

You know what?

And also, I put up pictures of me and Rupert Murdoch when he said he didn't.

He kept mispronouncing my name and trying to make it foreign, I guess.

I don't know.

But

he kept saying, I don't know who she is.

And I put up pictures of me hanging out with Rupert at dinner.

I was like, ask your boss.

But the new, the new, it's just so interesting.

The new narrative, the new talking point or the new narrative.

Now that the administration has said, okay, they've all gotten in a room and finally someone's raised their their hand and said, well, okay, let's be honest.

We fucked up.

We fucked up.

It's not going away.

It's not disappearing like a miracle.

It's not going to, we're in trouble.

We had more time to prepare for it than anybody else.

We claim we have the best healthcare system than anyone else in the world.

And we have now handled this worse than anyone else in the world.

And it's going to be an economic disaster and not only a disaster and taking an extraordinary human toll because of the incompetence.

And by the way, I want to be clear.

A lot of good reporting is coming out that China was corrupt, that China was not transparent and open about the number of viruses.

So the two largest economies in the world are embellishing the reputation as corrupt China and incompetent the United States.

But what's interesting about that.

What their new talking point is, and it's just fascinating from a community standpoint.

It's like, okay, we can't put the genie back in the bottle.

We relate.

People are going to die.

The economy is going to be in a tailspin longer because of our refusal to get out ahead of this.

Now they're saying, now they're, they're basically essentially, you go into a doctor and the doctor says, oh, no, that rash on your leg.

Don't worry about it.

Don't worry about it.

Get back to work.

Be proactive part of the economy.

And then the person comes in and says, okay, the rash is now all over my body.

And they say, well, guess what?

Because of our good work, we think we can save one of your limbs because we're so good at what they do.

The latest talking point is they're now saying, because of our good work, we may only lose a quarter of a million people, which by the the way, is the same number of people who died in World War II.

It's five times the number of people who died in Vietnam, and it's 100 times the number of people who perished on 9-11.

And they're actually trying to flip it to, well, it could have been a lot worse.

And did you see this bullshit yesterday where the president said, oh, I knew all along this was going to be bad.

I just didn't want to scare people, treating us like we're 11-year-olds.

And every piece of information around leadership says that the public are big boys and girls.

And what makes them feel better and what demonstrates leadership is a sober and honest conversation around what is actually going on and then painting a future for how we're going to get out of this thing, which they have failed to do.

But it is, this is a case study and how, and in poor calm strategy.

It's just, it's just crazy what's going on here.

It's real, it's fascinating on the thing, but you know, obviously the big story is still COVID-19.

And Florida, as where you are, I hope you're sheltering in place.

You already were.

I mean, Saran Rep.

declared a statewide, yeah, Saran Rep stay-at-home order.

The stalled economy, a collective reckoning with what it means not to work for non-essential workers, what it means, others who are in harm's way.

It's a really,

this is going to be studied for many years to come, I think, in terms of economics, healthcare, everything else.

So let's go through it, some of the stuff.

We did talk about Fox's culpability in spreading the misinformation early.

And, you know, we can play this clip of him if you want.

I don't really.

Oh, let's play the clip of the windbag of rage.

All right.

The rage, the wait, bag rage, the brage.

Roll tape, Rebecca.

Roll that bitch Hannity tape.

You know, make it a case.

My mom only listened to Fox News and Sean Hannity, and I was worried about my mom.

And so I just tweeted out.

So you proud, the woman's name is Kara of Swisher.

I don't even know who she is.

And I just said you are ignorant and you are lazy and you are a total hypocrite.

Okay, that's an M.

That's magic.

I mean, I'm a magic hypocrite.

He called me a media

maniac media something.

There's a lot of M's.

There was a lot of alliteration, poor alliteration of someone who did that.

I'm telling you, that guy, all he needs is to be part of a gay thruple and open a big jungle cat park.

That's the next level for Annity.

That's his calling.

Well, speaking of which, yes, he could be on Tiger.

I watched Tiger, whatever, Tiger King.

It was very good.

It was really good.

I loved it.

It was great.

It was a really good documentary.

May I just say, away from all the craziness, it was beautifully done.

And I know people,

to me, Doc Anthel was the most interesting character there, honestly.

Which one was Doc Anthel?

Wait, Doc Anthel.

He's the one that's like making a lot of money.

Oh, he's the smart one.

The elephant guy.

He's.

Oh, my God.

He's banging young hotties and he's a millionaire and no one and staying out of everyone's way doesn't piss off PETA.

Yeah.

He doesn't want to be with Carol and the other guy.

No, you're right.

He is the same.

Anyway, it was quite good.

I'm excited for the movie.

It was really good.

I'd like to remove Sean Hannity from our minds right now, but he really, I just, you know, listen, Sean.

Let me bring him up again.

Sean,

let me just bring him the final time.

Stop tweeting at me.

It's getting a little embarrassing, and it feels like you're a little interested in me.

I think he likes the saucy little minx known as Cara Swisher.

I can see it.

I'm only coming to

you in an eye.

Number three, numero

relationship.

The future.

Let me tell you, you're the only dysfunctional relationship I want to have with a man right now, okay?

All right, that's how

you and you are my future ex Mr.

Swisher.

Sean Hannity.

Sean Hannity.

All right.

Oh, my God.

If I wasn't gay already.

Who gets the Toyota Land Cruiser in that divorce?

Who gets it?

All right.

Listen to me.

Listen.

Listen.

I don't know what to say.

He has a haircut that's not unappealing to lesbians.

Anyway, on platforms,

on platforms platforms that Facebook has

took down video.

I'm moving on

enough about Sean Hannity.

Let's go to the tech companies we so love to give a hard time to.

Facebook took down video of Brazilian president that was providing misinformation about a drug that would cure COVID-19.

Obviously, Facebook is moving away for their claim that they do not, in fact, check public figures.

That was interesting.

Twitter also removed tweets by Brazilian, Venezuelan presidents and Rudy Giuliani that shared that information.

And back at Facebook, Sheryl Sandberg said the company's lessons learned from its numerous mistakes over the past couple of years prepared it to deal with the crises caused by the coronavirus pandemic.

And Google has completely revamped their landing page on coronavirus to include information about cases and spread and recommendation from the CDC.

So tech, you know, tech is

sort of stepping up a little better here.

And it was,

it's interesting that they have.

I think it's interesting.

And they, they, I don't know.

What do you think?

Are they being going to be more aggressive about misinformation in the future?

I doubt it.

But well, yeah, they're, they're, so I got one of those.

I got a notification on Twitter.

I've never received one before saying you're violating our terms of service.

We have temporarily shut down your account.

And it asked you to click like three or four times to get your account restored.

And it says, did you read our terms of service?

Click here.

And you go, yes.

And then all of a sudden it says, congratulations, your account has been restored.

And it was something around, I guess I'd use music in one of my videos.

I wasn't entirely sure, but

their way of threatening or warning you is to say, your account's account's been shut down.

Just click here four times and it's restored, but please don't do this again.

And I wasn't even entirely sure

what I did.

But I do think I can't figure out.

And

I want you to answer this.

Are we going to find out that big tech has been as reckless, as indifferent as they usually are, but we just have bigger fish to fry here?

Or has in fact big tech sort of wisely said, we can't get this one wrong.

This could, we could really get in hot water if it should, if we, if, again,

there are going to be a bunch of data scientists who correlate media consumption with infection and mortality rates and the people at facebook and google are probably smart enough to figure out that okay if we find that people who watch youtube more than three hours more than three hours a day have higher infection rates that could be bad on bad and we've we're guilty of a lot of stuff we've been taking a lot of heat we need to be clean on this one do you think it's that or is it just we're looking we're staring at bigger bigger faces i think they've gotten i got i think they've gotten better and smarter you know what i mean i think they realized they saw this train coming down the tracks and didn't want it to derail you know i think they if it if it had been a big mess they would have been right in here with fox news and others you know what i mean and they knew better kind of thing and so i think this and it was also an opportunity for redemption that they're trying to do that now it also points out that they can do it and so therefore they can do it for a lot of other things and what the shame is that they need they need to hide essentially seek cover from a healthcare crisis that everyone agrees is terrible.

Like it's very easy to be

for blocking this information.

And so the question is, when it becomes a little dicier, what are they going to do?

And when it's clear that there's some, like around the election, I think will be interesting on what I think that's where I'm sort of like, okay, but what about this?

Because everything is colored by COVID-19 going forward for the next year, really.

And it'll be interesting.

It'd just be interesting what they do and if they're going to be more aggressive on some, if it gets more aggressive, and I think it will.

And we'll see.

I mean, they are, what it's proven is that they're publishers.

That's the, and I think that's a good thing, that they recognize that they're publishers and they have a responsibility in the information diet of the Americans and around the globe.

And, you know, now they're trying to do things a little too far.

They're announcing this money they're giving to news.

Oh, my God.

They're trying to curry fight.

Hold the phone.

$25 million.

So, speaking of windbags of rage and hypocrisy, let's talk about Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg deciding to donate money for the aid of journalism and small newspapers.

In other news, Kara, the NRA has donated 75 bucks to kids who've been shot in the face.

I mean, this is

again, this is again, okay, posing for the cameras.

We have got to start putting out some metric that is, okay,

Jeff Bezos has just donated seven minutes of his income to save wildlife in Australia and has put out 383 press press releases on it.

We, at some point, we're going to start.

Yeah, I don't like when they at some point we're going to start referencing.

If you put out a press release about your philanthropy, somewhere in that press release, or there should be a website that says what percentage of your net worth, because I know a lot of people, and I'm sure you know them, that don't make a ton of money, who give a large portion of their hard-earned salary away to philanthropy, are always there, always able to step up.

I've actually been shocked.

I've been on a lot of board calls, and you can never predict, and money is not a predictor, who is generous and who is not generous around helping employees taking cuts and salaries in difficult times.

I've been really, really shocked.

It's just so interesting when you think about...

All medals or almost all medals in armed services around the world are largely a function of your grace and your bravery under fire.

They don't give medals out for the funniest guy in the messroom.

They don't give medals out for the person who is the most interesting and thoughtful.

They give medals out for

people start firing on you and your colleagues, who shows, who demonstrates bravery, courage, level-headed thinking.

And this is a very interesting time.

We're going to get to see

who really handles themselves under Grace Under Professor.

Well, you know, look, I'm going to push back a little bit.

It's good for them to get the $25 million for news or news themselves.

There was another $75 million that people thought was to buy ads on Facebook.

That's not the case.

They're going to buy ads on these newspaper websites, I guess, or in these newspapers, and then donate quite a few of them to local small businesses.

It's, look, they should be doing stuff like this.

I just thought the press release is.

You know what that's called?

They should just quietly.

That's called a last meal for the person you're about to execute.

I mean, it's just ridiculous.

I know, but it's just.

I agree.

I think they shouldn't make a big deal of it.

That's what I, that's my issue.

And look, they, they're just trying to get, they're trying to like redeem themselves.

That is, it's all part of the redemption drive that we're not as bad as you think.

And when, and when the comparison is Fox News, they're not as bad as we think, right?

So that's the, of course,

okay, if, if, what would you rather have?

I'm not going to like get angry at people for giving 25 million to local news outlets.

The problem is Fox News is a spectacle, but it's not historic.

Fox News,

3 million people watch Hannity every day, and he's the most, he is the, he is the biggest person in cable television.

I think he gets an audience between, he is, I think, between three and maybe sometimes on when he's interviewing the president, 8 million.

Facebook reaches a billion and a half people a day.

So anything, you're talking about the difference between a dumpster fire, which catches your attention and a nuclear bomb being set off.

Facebook does, Facebook does

exponentially more damage every day.

We just talk about Fox because the characters are interesting.

And for some reason, TV seems to be

a nice dovetailing of the two things.

I think you're right.

I think you're right.

But listen, so here's one that's interesting.

SoftBank won't be buying Adam Newman's WeWork shares.

SoftBank has stopped its offer to pay up to $3 billion for shares in the office space provider WeWork.

That spells bad news for Newman, the former CEO.

He had the right to sell up to $970 million in stock to SoftBank as part of the deal that led to his ousting.

But SoftBank said conditions for completing the stock sale weren't met by the April 1st deadline.

They cited the pandemic as one of the reasons.

That little cover there by terminating the share acquisition and said government lockdowns were imposing restrictions against WeWork and its operations.

I mean, like, oh, good God.

You know what it is, Carol?

It's proof that it's proof that even during tragedy, wonderful things can happen.

I mean, I read this.

I read this.

First, first,

yesterday was a good day.

First off, Hannity calls you a lazy hypocrite, which brings me joy.

And then I hear that South Bank is backing out of their billion-dollar signed commitment.

I mean, this is real.

This is a signed agreement that you're supposed to close on.

What's weird is I guess there wasn't an astro.

And then the special committee of the board, including

including Lou Frankfurt, former CF coach and icon of business, and Benchmark and representatives of Adam Newman, who all agreed to sell shares at what was a ridiculous valuation of 8 billion.

This company is not worth 8 billion because Masayoshi-san and SoftBank wanted to save face and wanted to take control of the company and didn't want to let American Vultures come in and buy the company for half a billion to a billion, which is what it's probably worth right now.

But now they have face-saving cloud cover from this pathogen, from this

novel coronavirus.

And so they've said, I know, let's let the thing tank.

And by the way, this is, this is, I don't want to call it the final nail in the coffin, but just.

It's just so interesting.

There's be lawsuits.

There'll be lawsuits.

But the virus.

They'll be lost.

The virus is the great accelerator.

WeWork was going to have trouble.

A bunch of its properties didn't make any sense.

The DNA of

expenses that were too high was going to, I think, doom this company.

And this has just accelerated that.

And you're going to see, and no one cares.

And quite frankly, South Bank doesn't care.

This is, this is just like,

the Vision Fund has become an infected ingrown hair.

And they're out.

They're done.

They're like, this is all we need.

I've heard they're just going to wind that one down.

He's the guy who ran it.

There's all that controversy around him.

You know, I think they, it's just, sorry, Saudi Arabia, we've lost all your money kind of thing.

So I knew that you'd find pleasure in both those things today.

I'm so, I'm so glad you have that to feel good about.

Listen, I want to move on to something more important: COVID-19, the defining moment for corporate America and the labor movement.

Several employee protests and strikes at big companies.

Instacart delivery workers staged a strike to protest their lack of protective gear.

200,000 people reported to have participated.

Whole food employees at a sick out to protest low wages, lack of paid leave, and other protective measures since they're labeled essential workers.

Amazon workers walked up the job.

They fired the organizer.

Just to be fair, Whole Foods raised pay by $2 per hour for hourly employees, and Amazon raised pay by $2 per hour for warehouse and delivery workers in the U.S.

through April.

But it's still, you know, they just feel they're in an unsafe situation.

GE employees protest to demand the company convert its jet engine factories to make ventilators.

General Electric announced it would be laying off 10% of its domestic aviation workforce.

They fired nearly 2,600 workers, along with a temporary layoff of 50% of its maintenance workers in a bid bid to save the company $500 million to a billion.

It's really like the layoffs are going to happen rather substantively

across April, I think.

On the other hand, Bob Iger taking full salary out during this time.

Delta's CEO and board of directors taking full salary cuts.

Lyft co-founders John Zimmer and Logan Green pledge to donate their salaries through June, only June, although I think that company is going to be in a lot more trouble.

Scott, you said COVID would accelerate everything, which you just said.

Is it going to accelerate the breaking point between workers and top brass?

And from an optics standpoint, which companies will come out good

in this, in this oh, I'd like to think it's going to force us to reevaluate the hierarchy of our society economically.

And the hierarchy is the following.

The consumer is the king or the queen.

Everyone has decided that the consumer, whatever's good for the consumer is good for all of us.

So if you can provide a free service, that means you should never break it up and it shouldn't have to pay taxes.

The consumer reigns number one.

Shareholders are kind of number two and workers are a distant number three.

And you see this on full display here.

And that is at a place like

Uber and all these companies, they're talking about some sort of bailout.

So Dara Khastrashahi, the new lipstick on cancer, has all of a sudden found empathy

when it's someone else's check.

And he's writing letters to Congress asking them to pay, to be generous in their bailout of gig workers, despite the fact he has spent tens of millions of dollars to try and circumvent legislation such that he doesn't have to pay payroll taxes or provide health insurance to his workers who now feel a need to show up to work and put themselves in dangerous situations because they don't have any money, because they have figured out a way using software to suppress the wages of workers.

Look at the U.S.

auto industry care.

On average, they make $27 an hour.

The majority of them have health insurance.

The majority of them are still employed.

Look at Uber workers who get fired every day.

If there's no work, they don't make anything have no health insurance uber does not pay their fair share of taxes they've likely paid no federal income taxes and yet uber is worth more it's a great business model this all adds up to a great business model that makes uber worth more than the entire us auto industry so we as a society and it's not uber's fault we will all make rationalizations such that we can have such that we can have you know

a a home in the haptons But what we have is we've said, okay,

we'd rather have a transfer of wealth from the government and from workers to shareholders.

So the first, and the question comes down to the following.

What kind of world do we want to live in?

Do we want to live in a world where auto executives make millions of dollars and there are hundreds of thousands of employees that have health insurance and continue to get paid in a disaster like this?

Or do we want a world of Uber where the top hundred people there make hundreds of millions or even billions, but the 7 million strong labor force doesn't have health insurance and makes less than minimum wage?

And what we have said loudly and clearly in this country is that we want to affect a transfer of wealth from government and from employees to shareholders.

And it comes at a huge cost in Europe.

I have a lot of friends I've been talking to in Europe, and they've said that there isn't the same sense of panic.

They don't believe, unless you've been affected personally by the virus, there isn't the same level of economic panic because the rescue packages in Europe differ from the U.S.

rescue package in the sense that it's mostly, mostly across European nations, been about saying, okay, employees, don't worry, you need to go home, but we're going to ensure you maintain 70 to 80 percent of your salary.

Whereas in the U.S., we're like, okay, for every dollar we're going to give to individuals, we've got to give a dollar loan to a business or a bailout or some sort of, and I think this is a good idea, loans to smaller business.

But we have, we are, we've got to look in the mirror here.

Should we be more like Germany, where there are 40 to 50% of every board has to be represented by the workers.

We have totally minimized labor in our country.

I don't think, see, I'm going to stop you.

We're not going there.

You know, we're just not.

We don't like, we have a whole, that, we have a whole different point of view about people, and it's survived the ages, like how people are fodder, really fodder and fungible.

And I don't think that's going to change by this or anything else.

I think it's, it's, it's built into the DNA of the U.S., which is pull yourself up by your bootstraps, even if you don't have boots.

Like, I'm sorry.

It's just, I don't see this as changing it.

I don't, I think it should.

I think there should be workers on the boards of companies.

I think we should think about how they're doing it elsewhere.

I think people are like, you're on your own, buddy.

It's the same thing with these testing.

You're on your own buddy.

It's a DNA part of this country.

And maybe, maybe it'll change.

I just, I think it will be super slow going to even, even this will not change.

But except, I do think the hypocrisy is on full display here.

And that is on the way up, on the way up, when the market is booming and companies are using 98% of their free cash flow to improve the stock price, and companies are laying off employees such that they can increase earnings.

And the compensation of the top 5% of every company are largely dependent upon and have huge, huge upside around the value of their shares.

We talk about rugged individualism and capitalism.

And then, when shit gets real and there's a trope event, and the equity might get wiped out, all of a sudden CEOs are saying, we're in this together.

We're in this together.

And the reality is, and I don't take this statement lightly, we should let a lot of these companies fail because

to be clear, when we talk about a company failing, the CEO of the company all of a sudden wraps himself in the socialist and comity of man and red, white, and blue flag that it's all about his or her workers.

No, it's not, boss.

It's about your comp because the majority of your comp is through equity.

And the reality is, if Carnival Cruises or if Delta Airlines or if any company goes out of business that has has worth, they're not going away.

There may be some interruption and there are probably certain sectors that warrant some sort of preferred, convertible, preferred loan from the government because they could do so much damage if they go away for a while.

But the vast majority of companies, it just means the equity holders get wiped out.

It just means that the wealthiest, the 10% of top income earning households who have had champagne and cocaine economy for the last 12 years, it means they finally get kicked in the nuts like the rest of America that hasn't had a wage raise in 30 years.

But be clear: if Carnival cruises, and I want to, you know, and I recommended the stock three weeks.

Oops.

But the bottom line is, if that company goes bankrupt, the ships don't go to the bottom of the ocean.

It just means the debt holders now own the ships and the equity gets wiped out.

So, are we capitalists on the way up and the way down, or are we just capitalists on the way up?

This is a test for us.

Do we walk the walk?

Well, are we going to privatize?

Are we going to privatize the gains?

And that has privatize the gains and socialize the losses is kind of the, is basically the call sign for CEOs here.

Can I just say

it's so good to have you on the show, Alexandria Capio-Cortez?

It's really lovely to have you.

Oh, my God.

Yumi Hannity AOC, double date from heaven.

Oh, my God.

No, we're not going to.

Listen, we're going to take a quick break, AOC.

Oh, my God.

You are so on the communist train.

I love it.

That's capitalism.

I'm on a capitalism train.

I know compassion.

I'm on a capitalism train.

Okay, sure.

After capitalism, I think most of us.

All these fucking CEOs are now socialists.

They all have bailouts now.

Time for a quick break.

Of course, they are.

Time for a quick break.

Didn't you watch Titanic, what happened there?

They got on the lifeboats, the rich people.

Come on.

Left the poor people down below.

They locked them down below.

Anyway, Scott, it's time for a quick break.

We'll be back.

That movie introduced me to Celine Dionne.

They should all burn in hell.

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All right, Scott, how about some listener mail?

Go to the tape, Rebecca.

You got, you got, I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman.

You got mail.

Hey, Karen Scott, this is Tim from Los Angeles.

And I had a question about the coronavirus and the impact on the streaming wars.

Scott, you've been skeptical in the past about Quibi and any new service launching

after we got the release of Disney Plus.

And I'm curious, has the current climate changed your assessment about the viability of a new streaming service?

Could there be a better time to

launch a new streaming service?

And what would Quibi need to do to maintain momentum once people are no longer housebound by the pandemic?

Thanks, guys.

That's a good one.

They're set to launch next week.

And by the way, the last weekend was the first weekend in U.S.

box office that it hit zero revenue, just as China started reopening the theaters for the first time since the COVID-19 hit.

What do you think, Scott?

TV pilots have been halted.

They can't make them.

Broadcasters are a huge employer in LA during the pilot seasons.

They have material, but they'll run out at some point.

What do you think about Quibi's chances now?

Well, just as in a time of crisis or sort of a hundred-year flood event or revolution or war, sometimes a nation will let people out of prison.

Jack Dorsey, Jeffrey Katzenberg, Masi Yoshi-san have all gotten a reprieve.

And that is...

You could see Quibi is going to get a ton of momentum out of the gates because we're all at home.

These quick hit, fun video content and series that they have lined up.

And some of them look really fun.

I think we have never needed a revival of punked more than we need it now.

And that is Quibi is planning to do.

So, yeah, I think Quibi actually has a fighting chance here.

I still don't think it survives.

What about marketing?

They can't really market themselves, can they, as well?

Well, I guess on TV, how do they get people using it?

Well, it all comes down to this.

The value proposition isn't there because since the two and a half years since they launched it, basically they're saying for five bucks a month, you get one and a half billion dollars of content.

Whereas Apple is saying for five bucks a month we'll give you four to seven billion dollars of content a month and and netflix for 12 bucks will give you eight to twelve billion dollars a year in content so unless quibby has some secret sauce and they've claimed their secret sauce is short form which as far as i can tell you can't patent it's just going to come down to value they're not going to be able to put put as much talent and production value on the screen per dollar and consumers ultimately make that trade-off but they'll get more momentum out of the gates

there are some you know

their timing is really fortunate here.

I work for a company that does online education.

I don't want to say we're benefiting from this, but our timing was really lucky here.

And Quibi, Quibi is really lucky.

Quibi is going to launch their boats with a lot of wind behind them over the long term.

Content.

And content.

And long term.

I don't know.

What do you think?

Are you looking forward?

Are you bullish on Quibi?

I look at it.

Definitely.

I think the winner here has been Netflix with their shows.

I mean, they have had more, people just really appreciate Netflix now.

I haven't heard as much talk about Disney Plus.

I don't have kids who are watching the Disney Plus stuff right now, but of course I will again.

But

I think that I think they're all going to do well, but I do think Netflix is showing itself to be, once again, the one that runs the track around everybody else.

And they, and this money well spent at this point.

You know, it's interesting.

It's an interesting moment for certain businesses.

Like, I know everyone I know that has money is buying a Peloton, for example.

And of course, they aren't delivering until April, late April, stuff like that.

But, you know, in this case, yes, I think you're right.

Jeff Kasenberg, it was very dicey in terms of getting people to use this in a busy world.

And now the world's not so busy.

And it looks like it's not going to be busy for a while.

And I think you're right.

But I do think there's a question of what do people do to make more things.

Like I was on the set of billions, I think in January or something like that.

They were not through the season by any stretch.

So how do you make, like, they've been doing the, I don't know if you've been watching like Jimmy Kimmel or Jimmy Fallon or some of the or Stephen Colbert.

They've been trying their level best to to to make shows.

And I think they're kind of good.

They're kind of been pretty interesting to watch, um, but I don't know how long you can sustain that.

And that's, that's the, that's the issue.

Um, but you know, certain TV mediums, like I have to say, Chris Cuomo, who has coronavirus, I, I cannot stand him most days of the week.

And I got to tell you, he's in the basement, Chris, sick, Chris Cuomo.

I'm sorry, he's sick and I'm and he seems to be doing better than most people, but it's really compelling watching to watching it.

And it's very emotional in a way that's actually very touching.

And so it's interesting because I do definitely, I'm spending a lot more time watching television, but I don't know.

What do you think?

Well, I saw Chris Cuomo.

I turned it on and then I was literally, I was watching him.

I like Chris Cuomo.

I really think he made a mistake giving Kellyanne Conway such a big platform.

I thought that was a strategic error.

But I turned that thing on and I literally read as I was watching him that Chris Cuomo has COVID-19.

I'm like, shit, I want what he has.

That guy is so handsome and so articulate and seems to have, I mean, is that what happens when you get COVID-19?

No.

That guy looks great.

Oh, God.

Jesus, that guy looks great.

COVID-19 equals bad for most people.

I get it.

But here's the deal.

I think he's bringing it.

I think he's bringing it home in a very emotional way for people.

And I think he's articulating it well.

But I think a lot of people have a chance now to really do substantive information like this, like he's doing.

And I think Quidby will provide pleasure to people

who are just bummed out.

So I have some inside baseball here, which will probably queer the deal I'm working on.

Wait, is that bigoted or sexist to say queer the deal?

Go ahead.

Anyways.

I'm just not going to bother at this point.

Anyways.

So

the dog, just to give you a sense of how desperate content, how much, you know, how much money has overinvested in content creation, I've been talking to studios about doing a show.

And it started with budgets of half a million to a million dollars for sort of like a business review show, right?

And now the budgets are 100 to 200K an episode, and they want to film them from your home.

And so what will happen when content, I mean, what we're finding is quite frankly, is that 80% of the production value gets you probably 90% of the value.

And I wonder if we're going to shift and take money out of production value such that we can have more content and more selection.

Because all of the folks who are bidding on our show have said, now there's more of them bidding, but they've all cut their budgets and said, we're going to film it from your home.

Because I think what they're finding is in a lot of instances.

That if you're watching MSNBC, I did an interview yesterday with Stephanie Ruhl, and Stephanie was in her home, and all of us were in our homes.

It's going to, the quality will get better.

They'll use technology to figure out and tweak it.

But it's, I mean, you and I, you are a perfect example.

We're

our production value has gone down.

We're no longer putting video on YouTube.

The sound quality is only 90% as good as it usually is, but it doesn't seem to be impairing people's consumption.

So is media about to become the greatest innovation in retail history or fastest zero to a billion retailer was Old Navy that said for 80%,

we'll offer you 80% of the quality of the gap for 50% of the price.

And it went to a billion dollars faster.

Is media about to go 80% of the production quality for 50% of the price and dramatically expand their market share across different mediums because they're able to put a lot of stuff on screen for less money?

That is interesting.

What I really want to know is why you're doing a show without me, but I'm not going to go into that.

Because I'm a narcissist.

I'm going to do that later with Esther Perel and our show.

You,

you, me, and that windbag of rage.

I'm going to do a show with Sean Hannity now, just so you know.

Just so I'm going over there to Fox.

You start to like people who are mean to you.

It's like foreplay for you.

You like them.

You like, come over here.

Come over here.

Let's go to the Orange Julius and make out together at the mall.

Shane 9.

9, mine.

Let's go to the mall and make out at the Orange Julius, says that hypocritical, lazy icon.

But you're right.

I think you're making a very salient insight here, whether it needs to cost that much.

It does.

And I think you're right.

I think you're right.

And I think it's going to be an interesting time to see what happens.

But I think they'll probably go back to their sets and their limos and their cars.

Live you miss a lot.

You know, it's really quite frankly that one of the, you have those moments that sort of brings home what is going on.

But when you're watching Colbert or Kimmel and they pan to the audience and you see

a bunch of the admin staff and a bunch of the writers and the workers all sitting in the audience 10 feet from each other, it's like, oh, I almost forgot what's going on.

Now I remember.

It really is kind of a, it's one of those sort of rattling moments.

Although there's one area, and then we're going to take a break

I thought the debate between Biden and Bernie was quite good because it was actually substantive because there wasn't the crowds, and it just made it better.

It made it better as a policy discussion.

So it goes back and forth.

But I think you've got you're onto something, Scott Galloway, who's sneaking around Hollywood without me.

Anyway, we're going to be right back with predictions when we return.

I rubbed Sean Hannity's feet last night.

I'm coming clean.

I'm coming clean.

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That's this month on Explain It to Me, presented by Pureleaf.

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Okay, we're back.

Scott, it's Friday.

Do you have a prediction?

What is your prediction?

We need a prediction.

My prediction is, and I don't know, I have no inside information here, but my prediction is

the majority of universities in hot zones, whether it's San Francisco or New York, are not going to open for fall.

I think that when we get through this,

when we get through this and we will, I think there's going to be

a decent amount of thoughtful and warranted concern about

the relapse in the fall.

And we're going to decide that putting my class is 160 people in a tight room.

And we're going to probably decide that even if this thing has gone away, unless we have a vaccine, we're going to decide not to do that for a while.

So we're going to see this incredible value creation or focus on dispersion, and

that is industries that typically bring a lot of people together in a small place are going to take fall off.

And this is going to have huge ramifications on the world of education, where it's no longer going to be a moment in time where we all have to learn how to do Zoom.

It's probably going to be the catalyst for

the long-awaited disruption in education where we no longer constrain supply through our physical spaces.

So fall is going to be a very interesting moment in time.

We're supposed to welcome several million new students to campuses.

I don't think we're going to do that unless the campus is spread out.

And it'll go, it'll be on a case-by-case basis.

But your dense universities in areas where there was a lot of COVID-19, and I'm wondering if there's any area that's not going to have a lot of COVID-19 right now.

I think this thing is going to find every corner of the U.S.

In cities, for sure.

And they're going to say,

do we want to be the university that was the new hot zone for a relapse in the the fall?

That's going to become a very real concern.

Anyways, I think education in the fall is going to be, is going to, is going to decide not to be.

What about schools?

What about a school?

That's a great question.

I don't know.

What do you think?

I just have no, I don't, I don't know.

I don't know.

My kids went back to school this week online and it's really substandard, I have to say.

I'm kind of, I mean, weird, isn't it?

Have you listened in?

It's wild.

Well, it's not well done.

And they have to think hard because I'll tell you, we pay a lot.

My kids go to private school, but they pay a lot of money.

And I'm like, no, no, no, no.

Like, you know, I don't think anybody's getting it right, but it's really, it's a really, I don't know.

I have a kid in a ninth grader and a kid who's going to college, and both the colleges he wants to go to are in hot, really hot zones.

And so, um, I don't know.

I think he's going to have to work at a restaurant or something, like once they sort of start to open up or take out place.

But new executive producer for the Hannity Show.

Louis Swisher.

That's right.

Oh, he's so good.

He called me, he wrote me, I love you, mom.

You're so great.

It's so funny.

Even my mom, even though she was daddying Fox News, wrote it like a text that I put up about Sean Hannity being a horse's ass, essentially.

So,

yeah, my family does stick together.

Italians do stick together in the end.

You're Italian.

You're the sopranos.

Oh, yeah.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Oh, wait.

And your dad was German, which means you are smart enough to know you're fucked up, but too lazy to do anything about it.

Italian German humor.

For us.

No, no, Italian was on my mom's side.

She's 100% Italian.

I'm happy.

Lucky he's Italian.

100%, 100%.

My grandfather was born in Italy.

And yes, 100%.

Oh, some good news.

Did you see that Italy had its lowest number of new cases in several weeks yesterday?

Yes, I thought that was great.

And I'm hoping

that day comes here sooner than later, for sure.

Anyway, we have to go.

Not if I can look like Chris Cuomo.

God, that dude is dreaming.

God, that dude is dreaming.

Scott, is that your new crush?

Is that your new makeup?

He is so handsome, and he's thoughtful and articulate.

And you look at him.

And he looks a little bit sad.

And his older brother is the governor and loves him.

That guy, everyone's focused on him.

The Cuomai.

Everyone's focused on Anthony.

Someone at Slate called it the Cuomai, the Cuomai.

They're quite.

And isn't he married to a Kennedy?

That's it.

Next life, I'm coming back.

No, no, she...

No, not Chris Cuomo.

The other Cuomo was.

The governor Cuomo was.

And there was a bad breakup.

There was a bad break.

Sorry to hear that.

Yes, didn't you follow that scandal?

I'm sorry to hear that.

And yes, he's quite good.

He has nice hair.

I think you're attracted to the hair as usual.

And it is excellent hair that you will never have.

Let's just make that clear.

There's a lot going on there.

Actually, Sean Hannity has better hair than you.

Sean Hannity.

Sean has very good hair.

No, he has very good hair.

But let's leave on a high note.

Sean, nice hair.

Well done.

We think that's great.

He and I can absolutely bond over our rage, over our ill-informed rage.

God.

This is such a moment for you.

Oh, my God.

This is such a moment for you.

I am so jealous.

I'm telling you.

I know you are.

That's really what it is.

But you don't want the focus.

You don't want to be tweeted at day and night by this guy.

It's creepy and weird.

Anyway, I think, you know, what here?

Let me see my last thing on it.

Look, there was a story by Ben Smith that they didn't like about Fox News, Ben Smith, who was the media reporter.

There's been several stories about this in the Times, and he just is using it to go after you.

You were kind.

And it's easy.

You were kind.

I was kind compared to everyone else.

And by the way, let me just say, it's it's easy to attack a woman who just, I don't know why it's me that set him off, but he's mad about the New York Times.

And it's totally calculated.

It's a calculated effort on behalf of these people, which they do watch.

When you watch

something else.

When you watch and when you advertise on Fox, be clear, be clear.

You are financing the increase in infection and mortality rates, much less a voice that strategically and tactically goes after progressive female voices.

You are not the first person.

If you are female, if you are progressive and you are emerging voice, they decide to come after and in a concerted way across their media properties, across the Post, across the Wall Street Journal, across Fox News.

They go after progressive emerging female voices.

So that is who you are funding advertisers of Fox.

Well done.

Oh my God, get away.

Anyway, don't forget if you have a story.

I'll survive.

I don't want to like, you know, if I start to play Adenopause with those assholes, I'm going to lose.

So they're just, he's just wrong.

He's just wrong.

Anyway, don't forget, if you have a story in the news and you're curious about what you want, when you want to hear our opinion, email us at pivot at voxmedia.com to be featured on the show.

Scott, read us out.

I think Chris Cuomo and I could be friends.

No.

You know, I think we could be friends.

I think he'd just come out, come over and we'd hang out.

He's into sports.

I'm not, but we'd just hang out.

I think he'd call security.

We just hang out.

Please read us out.

Security.

That's what it would happen.

Today's episode was produced by Rebecca Sinanis.

Our executive producer is Erica Anderson.

Special thanks to Drew Burroughs and Rebecca Castro.

If you like what you heard, please download or subscribe.

We'll be back at the beginning of next week for a breakdown of all things tech and business.

Stay safe.

We're getting through this.