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Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

And this is Scott Galloway.

Hello, Scott Galloway.

It was so good to see you this week.

We did a very nice live event, and everybody loved us.

The sponsors loved us.

The audience loved us.

It was amazing.

Yeah, it was nice.

And I get my observation, Kara.

I got the sense you are in a really good place.

Is that are my senses of observation accurate?

You seemed as if you're doing well.

I'm always doing well, Scott.

See, that I disagree.

I do not have anything to complain.

We had three generations.

I'm really happy.

We had three generations of Swishers there, which made it an event, a Swisher event.

We had your mom, and we had your soon-to-be

new kid.

I don't know how to say that.

In utero is the term.

Yeah, there is a utero.

Yes.

Yes, yes, yes.

And what did they think of it?

There were three generations of swishers, all girls, which is very exciting.

I mean, I'm very excited about that.

That's obviously the most important thing, but I really enjoyed our event together.

And people are comparing us to Regis and Kathy Lee.

They're making all kinds of like comparisons.

I feel like you're Kathy Lee, obviously, correct?

Oh, the drunk crazy one who's obsessed with youth.

Yeah.

Yeah, 100%.

We have a bingo.

That's the big dog.

Yeah, I like Kathy Lee.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Anyway, we're going to do more of these events because the people love it, and fans were really lining up.

They were gathered around you like you were.

They have this like huge man crush on Scott Galloway.

No, they just think I'm holding.

Everyone thinks I take vaping to the extent that I'm gonna show up with some spleef or something.

Yeah, no.

So, what cities are we picking?

I don't know what that is.

What cities are we picking?

I don't know.

Where do you want to go?

Where do you want to go?

I don't know.

I'm pretty down with anything.

Although, speaking of cities, I've decided that I was recently granted an American Express gold card.

So my credit has gone way up.

And I want to announce officially here that I'm lobbying in an offer to purchase the assets and domain of Uzbekistan.

Okay.

Why?

Well, one, I just think it'd be cool to say you're Uzbeki.

I just think that sounds cool.

All right.

And if Donald, I'm pretty sure I have a net worth that's greater than the president's.

And if he's willing to release his taxes, I'll release mine.

I'm pretty confident I have more money.

So I think I should own a sovereign territory.

I'm ready.

Okay.

All right.

Uzbekistan is.

No, but if you could buy anything, would it be Greenland?

I would buy, what would I buy?

France, obviously.

Oh, that'd be awesome.

That'd be awesome.

France.

Yeah.

I wonder if France is.

Move into the Louvre or the De Orce.

Move into the De Orce.

Louvre.

Okay, well, I want to live in the Louvre, you French people.

You do.

Listen to me.

We're going to get into the serious topic.

Our first gosh is this Denmark situation, which also took place over Twitter.

Again, this is like now we're doing foreign policy.

We did national policy on Twitter, foreign policy on Twitter.

The Danish prime minister said, She's a new prime minister, and she's fantastic.

And she said it's absurd that he wants to do this.

Then he got mad and started tweeting like a lunatic about it.

And you can't talk to me this way, you know.

And of course, used the term nasty, nasty for a woman, which is his favorite moniker for a woman,

just because you used the word absurd, which it is.

So, what do you make of all this, like international policy over Twitter?

So

I think, I mean,

the medium is one thing, but I think the long-lasting damage here is that our allies bring incredible haft military cooperation around intelligence.

And effectively, what the president is doing with his kind of eight-year-old id,

you know, no safeguards, nobody around him who has the authority to rein them in.

He's basically, for the war hawks out there, people who can link our defense and our brave women women and men who guard our shores to our prosperity, you know, and our freedoms.

He's basically cut our military in half because we no longer have the full faith and cooperation of allies that have taken a half a century or seven years to develop those relationships.

He's trashing these relationships that have taken decades.

Denmark was one of the first nations to agree to go into Iraq and Afghanistan with us, and they lost 40 brave young men and women fighting alongside our soldiers.

And so, and you know, that kind of commitment, that kind of, you know, whether or not that was a good idea for them long term, sure, they thought about it, but more than anything, they thought about this is our ally.

This is our brother, our sister in arms.

And when they find reason to get in harm's way, we go with them.

And the question is, the next time we need...

our brothers and sisters overseas to put themselves in harm's way alongside with us, are they more inclined to say no?

So this stuff is just, it's incredibly damaging long term.

Well, it is.

I do think the medium matters because I think it's, it brings it to a level of absurdity, you know, including this week tweeting that he was king of Israel, like someone who said he was king of Israel.

King of the Jews.

Oh my God.

You know, guys.

Ghost of Passover once at his son-in-law's, and what do you know?

He's king of the Jews now.

It's just fascinating that like, but the medium is important because it's a twitchy, reactive, like,

I'm a tantrum thrower and it gives him the ability.

It would be so much, he couldn't tweet some idiotic, he couldn't say some idiotic thing.

He does that all the time.

He obviously gives these helicopter press

behind the helicopter press conferences.

But he, this gives him, it flows a twitchiness that creates even more chaos.

And I do think the media matters here.

Yeah.

And the other story that was probably overlooked was like,

I mean, Israel radically fucked up and then they kind of unwound their fuck up.

And let me, before I get accused of being an anti-Semite, if you ever say anything negative about Israel, let me up my Jew cred.

I'm Jewish.

I have a family that lives on Moshev.

My cousin was a tank commander in the Israeli army.

But for Israel to allow itself to be weaponized by an eight-year or four-year administration and then start excluding elected officials from their country,

primarily because, let's be honest, they're not white.

is to all of a sudden, of all people that should recognize the dangers of in any way discriminating against people of color, you'd think it would be Israel.

And to their credit, they unwound that and somebody somebody pulled their heads out of their asses and said, you know what?

This is just a bad idea.

And they had the bravery.

Sort of.

They had all kinds of conditions, and she's not going.

The damage was done.

Yeah, this is just awful.

I mean, turning, breaking, you know,

breaking ground out with allies and then weaponizing other allies against

your own brothers and sisters who are also elected officials.

It's just like, when does this stop, Carol?

When does this stop?

When does this bad fucking movie end?

Possibly November 2020.

Possibly November 2020.

But here's the deal.

Should journalists stop covering this stuff?

I think it's, I had an argument with someone online about this, and I was like, he's the president.

Like, you have to cover it.

Like, you don't, it's like, I mean, I know that's kind of a quick answer to something, but it's very hard because it does have real world implications right now.

It does have, you know, iterations of him doing this.

I think it's impossible not to cover it.

Yeah, like I agree that the media, what choice do they have?

He's the president, they've got to cover it.

Some of this stuff has such injurious impact, where I think the media is a little bit guilty or a lot guilty is they're constantly trying to, remember when you're in high school, and I don't know if this ever happened to you, it happened to me a couple times, someone pushes you into a center where there's a fight and starts screaming, fight, fight.

The media is always trying to pit everyone against each other.

Even look at the debates.

The debates aren't here, provide us with a thoughtful commentary on climate change.

It's like, she said you're a racist, your turn.

You know, so it's like the media is like a Tyrannosaurus rex.

They're attracted towards violence and movement, and they want to create violence wherever they can.

And I think it does a terrible job

creating conflict where there doesn't need to be.

But yeah, they have to cover this stuff.

I don't see how you don't cover this stuff.

I don't know.

I don't agree with you on the violence thing because I just interviewed Steve Schwartzman of the Blackstone Group.

He has a new book out.

He's obviously a very tight ally of President Trump.

And one of the things he was saying is like, from the beginning of his term,

he was under attack and that's been unprecedented.

I was like, he kind of starts the fight.

Like, speaking of fight, and he just couldn't see that.

He was like, no, because no one's been so attacked.

No one's been so disrespected.

I was like, no, but he starts it.

He creates the fight.

And then one is

always every one of these encounters is I'm being disrespected.

Like

Denmark was disrespecting him by saying absurd.

This was disrespecting him.

So he reacts to news stories and actually punches.

And the stupid trope that Trump people do is all the time is like, well, he hits back 10 times harder.

I'm like, what?

Like, why is that allowed to keep going on?

This idea that he should be able to hit back 10 times harder.

He has a bigger duty than hitting back 10 times harder.

And he does, he uses social media tools to do so quite a bit.

It's not defensive.

That whole bullshit that he's a counterpuncher, he flails wildly in offense.

And, you know, my guy, Senator Bennett, had the right term.

He said, and by the way, his most retweeted tweet was: he said, if you elect me president, I promise you won't have to think about me more than every two weeks.

I'll handle the crisis at the border.

I'll deal with the North Koreans, and you can go back to raising your kid and living your life.

And I'm really interested in this notion that happiness isn't only a function of what you have or can get.

It's a function of your absence from certain things, absence from fear that you could be bankrupted by a healthcare scare.

I want,

I think our happiness as Americans would be largely increased if we were absent from the day-to-day bullshit and

media cycle covering dear leader.

And that

there's an inverse correlation between competence and your need to be in the media every day.

And what we have is an incompetent.

And it just every day, I'm just sick of hearing about it.

The president, any president, Democrat, Republican, any senator, shouldn't be in our face this much enough already.

Let's get on to other.

Which is why I want to shut down Twitter.

Okay.

All right.

Moving along.

Speaking of

the cycle, Bennett is still in the game, in the Democratic candidate.

He's still hanging on.

But Jay Inslee left.

Hick and Looper's now running for Senate in Colorado.

Jay Inslee, who was pushing Klein,

he had, of course, a moment on Twitter by being hot.

And he is indeed, I just saw him recently.

He's indeed quite a handsome man.

But

he's coming out.

Where are we in And that's like, well, these people moving out.

We obviously still have

Beto.

We've got Marion Williams and we've got all kinds of people.

Well, where are we going?

The next big hurdle, right, is the September debates.

And people are largely saying that the next debates, if you're not on that stage, you're kind of out.

And what's interesting is that the Democratic Party, in an effort to kind of not make the mistake of being sort of the vehicle for just getting Hillary the nomination, has decided to put in place all these metrics.

And one of the metrics is the number of small donors you get from 20 states.

I think you have to get a certain number of donors from.

And so, what's happened is the campaigns are spending $70

online to get a $1 donation.

And it's...

Yeah, I think Pete was doing something like that.

You get to have coffee with him or something in South Bend.

That's right.

He's actually quite creative.

I don't know if you get these emails, but they're doing a lot of very interesting and creative things.

Michael Bennett wrote a book about

highlighting all the content and propaganda that the the Russians used against us.

And

if you send him a dollar, he buys the book and he sends it to Moscow Mitch.

But

we're about to see a culling of the herd.

There was a great daily from the New York Times on Kristen Gilla Brown and the Al Franken

Al Franken departure, which I think has probably injured her.

I think it gave her the platform to get to run for president, but I think it's probably going to take her out a bit early because I think people are now revisiting that entire issue.

and de Blasio, your favorite.

Oh my God.

Oh my God.

You should run for president, said no one ever, right?

I mean, literally, that you got to love your mayor.

You love your mayor of New York.

He's your mayor.

It's just hilarious that that guy, you know, you got to admire his confidence.

He's literally, I guess, he's, it's like me.

I tried out for quarterback at UCLA.

That's the same type of confidence you need to run for mayor when you're Bill de Blasio.

By the way,

I tried out with Steve Bono, went on to be AFC all-pro at Kansas City, and then Troy Aikman, who went on to win the Super Bowl four times.

And shocker, Kara, I did not ever get to throw the ball for the Maya Bronze.

Speaking of football, I just want to go off the things we talked about because I want to get to Tesla and I want to get to these state's attorney generals investigating tech companies.

But the NFL deal with Jay-Z, interesting.

From a brand, what do you think of that from a brand?

Because he was a very close, Colin Kaepernick, he was affiliated.

Explain that to me, brand man.

Well, look, bringing in Jay-Z to talk about race relations,

I think there's some value there.

I think the deal itself is, you know, it's getting a lot of criticism.

And I'd be here as to your take.

But I have a trouble just getting past the NFL because I basically think the NFL has institutionalized the recruitment of these kind of

these incredibly impressive, beautiful young men and decided, all right, our job is to give them tard of dyskinesia by the time they're 45.

And I think it's really sad.

I think that the amount of injury when you take these incredibly talented, fast, strong, and quite frankly, men who are told to be violent for 200 minutes.

I just think we're finally coming to grips with the fact that like boxing, football probably shouldn't be,

we're just going to have to radically change the game.

So I've stopped watching football.

Technology.

That's what will do it.

Robots fight.

I hate.

I will not let my children play football.

No way.

Yeah.

And you know what?

It's funny.

And my one son really wanted to play football.

It's a great sport.

Team sport teaches physical discipline, teamwork.

It really is a fantastic sport.

But until we figure out a way to stop the massive unnatural rotation of a man's head and create that sort of brain trauma, then unfortunately,

quite frankly, if those injuries resulted in immediate...

Here's the worst thing that happened to these young men is that the injuries have a lag effect.

Because if they had an immediate lag effect and a guy who had a Nike contract was all of a sudden shaking and having a palsy right away after he'd been hit, the sport would be shut down.

But unfortunately, there's a 10 to 30 year lag.

Yeah.

And so by the time they're forgotten and are doing something else, we don't care.

But anyways, what did you think?

What do you think of the Jay-Z NFL deal?

I just was like, come on.

Like they're,

you know, the Colin Kaepernick, the way they, I don't know, they're just, these owners, I just think they're just awful.

Just like they just, like as a group, they're awful.

They're just as the whole whole thing.

I was sort of like, wow, that's, that's trying to sort of, you know,

pretty up something that's not very pretty by putting someone who's super hip and it answers your race issues.

And I don't know.

I don't even know.

And, you know, he's a great entrepreneur and very creative and everything else.

But I just was like, oh, God, really?

Everything's for sale.

You know what I mean?

Like, that's what I kept thinking.

But we'll see.

We'll see.

Who knows?

It's a, it's an interesting brand move on their part.

But let's get to Tesla.

No, actually, let's get to WeWork first and then Tesla and then we'll go for a break.

Oh my God.

WeWork.

I wrote a column and I included Scott Galloway in the New York Times column.

You know, I have a column in the New York Times.

Really?

Really?

You write to the New York Times, Karen?

I do, but I got inspiration from you, this column about WeWork.

And I was showing the different points of view about this company, and I included yours, which was quite firm in the camp that this, this is a big Ponzi scheme, essentially.

Well, here's the thing.

And my post on, back to me, my post on WeWork got more hits than anything I've ever posted, which I wasn't expecting.

And a lot of people,

in an effort to balance the arguments, included

an article from Ben Thompson from Shotekeri.

And I think Ben is incredibly thoughtful.

I'm a big fan.

And his viewpoint was this could be the next kind of AWS, in that it allows people, similar to the way they use AWS, to scale up or down something they need, in this case, not data storage, or processing power, but in this case, office space, scale it up or down.

And it's an incredible AWS-like

customer proposition.

And I think he's right.

I think this is, in fact, a great, just as being a passenger in Uber is a great value proposition for you because you're getting a $15 ride for $10.

And when right now, given that

WeWork's going to do about $2 billion in revenues and lose $1.9, when you pay $100 in rent, you're getting $200 worth of office space.

Where I think he missed the point and where I'm, you know, my focus is, is that this is an AWS in the sense that on

the company side, side, they're not getting the economies of scale that AWS is getting.

Because once AWS covers their costs, incremental consumers are incredibly high margin.

And it doesn't appear that the gross margins or the variable margins are we work.

They're still shitty.

In other words, their costs

are not going down as they scale.

So another dollar in revenue costs them another 97 cents.

And this company just doesn't scale.

In sum, this is a cute little real estate company, a better idea, a great brand, an interesting culture, community value proposition.

should trade at double the valuation of its peers, meaning it's worth $3 to $5 billion.

And what do you have?

You have J.P.

Morgan and Goldman Sachs who are going to register $130 million to fling shit at visitors to the Unicorn Zoo.

And this is going to be fascinating to see if this gets out.

Do you think this gets out?

Do you think this gets out?

I don't know.

I mean, the way they've done it,

the way they wrote this thing seems like so arrogant and obnoxious.

And it's of another era.

I was like, wait, you know,

1997 is calling and you need to go back there.

100%.

That's really, I think.

But when you, I think we'll see.

I'm just curious.

I'm on some inso baseball here because I hear from people, but I think when I write something, I hear from an entirely different universe of people because I'm not a journalist, which means I have no standards.

So I hear from a lot of people, but my sense is when you write something like that in the New York Times, do you hear from the company and what do they say?

Well, I will let you know.

You know, I haven't discussed things with them.

I went back and forth over whether I should call them.

And I thought, no, I'm just going to, they put it out there.

I'm going to respond to their, to what they wrote because they put out a little, you know, a 350-page document about themselves.

And so that's what I was responding to.

I think, I think I'm coming sort of around sometimes, on some things, to your idea of like, why do I even need to talk to them?

I can analyze business and numbers and stuff like that.

On some levels, once you talk to people, you get, you, you, reporters, again, a big secret, you get nicer to them if you talk to them.

They're nice people.

They're super likable, too.

That's the problem.

Right.

And I don't mean nice fair.

It's like you're like, you give them much more than the benefit of the doubt if they talk to you.

If they don't, you just do your job.

So I don't know.

It's a, I, you know, it's, it's an interesting question.

We'll see.

We'll see.

That's a, that's a really key point because 30 years ago, there were twice as many Kara swishers as there are today.

And that's a frightening image.

But what I'm saying is that there were twice as many journalists.

The number of journalists in America has been cut in half in the last 30 years, primarily because of Google and Facebook that are sucking all the oxygen out of the air and killed the classified ads, which was sort of the Full Employment Act for journalists.

But half as many journalists and the number of corporate communications executives has trebled.

So the ratio of people actually uncovering this bullshit and pulling the wallpaper off the truth has now, the ratio has gone down six to one.

And so corporate communications executives, I think all of us have an obligation to spend a lot of time working with journalists.

I mean, I just did an interview with this crazy little paper in Germany.

I'm trying to make an effort to really speak to a lot of journalists if and when I think I can add value.

And I, for the most part, don't take calls from corporate communication execs.

They're all charming.

They're all super nice.

And I don't want to speak to them.

All right, then.

Then do not, Scott.

Last real quick before we get to a break, Tesla, the rumor of Tesla getting sold to Volkswagen.

What do you make of it?

Yeah, that came out in a hot minute.

I'll be curious to find out if there's anything going out there.

It started this morning.

Tesla's stocks spiked, and then somebody said, Why, someone asked the question, well, why would Tesla buy this company?

Their own EV efforts look to be taking shape.

And also, all you have to do to get Tesla for much less than it's trading for now is just wait because this company is going to, the stock here is going to crash.

I think the bloom is finally off the Tesla row.

So, that I think it was a rumor that lasted about an hour.

And all of a sudden, I think the stock is back down again.

But somebody leaked the rumor that Volkswagen was going to was going to purchase them.

And it was kind of legitimate for about five minutes this morning.

All right.

Well, we'll see.

It was interesting for it to pop up.

That was an interesting rumor.

Cause, you know, it's within the realm.

The reason why I think it works is because it's within the realm of possibility of sale, which was interesting.

Well, there's only two auto companies that can own it.

I mean, an auto company is the natural acquirer, and the only two auto companies that have the balance sheet to do it are VW or maybe, well, actually, maybe Daimler and then Toyota.

Daimler.

So maybe there's maybe there's three, but I don't see why any of them

would buy this thing.

Because you get to hang with Elon.

Oh, for goodness sake.

Elon.

Anyway.

Elon.

Okay, we'll be back with predictions and wins and fails right after this, but now it's time for an ad.

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We're back with Scott Galloway, who is in Nantucket.

How is the shark monitoring going, by the way?

I mean, Amityville.

Yeah, it's fine.

Yeah.

Everything's fine.

I'm not worried about it at all.

You haven't been in the water.

All right.

Okay.

All right.

Well, that's because you don't go in the water.

So wins and fails this week.

Do you have any?

Would you like, you know, we can talk about a lot of things.

The state attorney generals are moving forward to joint antitrust investigations of big tech.

That's very exciting.

Facebook has off Facebook activity tool.

So

what would you like to win and fail?

So my win is Professor Daniel Markovitz.

I'm fascinated with

professor things lately.

Yeah, well,

trying to help my brothers and sisters.

So

he teaches, I believe, at Yale Law School, and he's written a great book on the meritocracy trap.

And he's basically pointing out that since the 1950s, the number of people who get

go from the lowest quintile to the highest quintile has been cut in half.

So

this notion of meritocracy is really dangerous.

And it's dangerous for a few reasons.

So standardized tests, the SAT.

The term standardized is total bullshit because kids who come from families who make more than $200,000 a year on average score 240 points higher than kids from families that register less than 40k a year.

At these universities, they have more students from the top 1% of income earning households than the bottom 60%.

So, the notion that we live in a meritocracy is not only incorrect, it's dangerous.

And the reason it's dangerous is it creates this general gestalt that if you aren't successful, if you aren't a millionaire in the United States, that you fed up.

And every day we get reminders on our social feeds of all the cool toys and fabulous people that our friends are playing with and hanging out with.

And this notion, it's layered with this icing of we live in a meritocracy.

So if you aren't on a yacht partying with the Kardashians, you fucked up.

It's your fault.

And it's making our teens more depressed.

It's making us feel worse about ourselves.

So meritocracy is largely a myth.

And in addition, and Alain de Baton, the philosopher out of Britain, has done some amazing work here.

I think he's going to be a seminal thinker in 50 years.

We're going to look back and think that guy was a gangster.

But he's basically said the problem, you know, the reverse of a caste system in meritocracy, but the problem with American meritocracy is we assume that everyone that isn't rich, it's that it's your fault.

And it's not.

Right, exactly.

So, anyways, my secret, my reason.

The secret, Scott, it's because of you.

That's the reason.

Or Lean In or any of these things.

It's an idea.

It's the continuing American narrative that you are where you are because of what you did.

Well, and that's that's and I'm guilty of it too, because I found that through my 30s and 40s, and I'm constantly boasting about my background and where I ended up because I'm very proud of it.

But here's the reality: being born a heterosexual white male in 1964 was literally the luckiest ticket.

That was the lottery ticket, because what did it mean?

It means you came into the University of California in the 80s where you got to go to an amazing university for free.

It means you got to graduate into the greatest economic creation in the history of mankind where more wealth was created with a seven mile radius of SFO airport in seven years than all of Europe since World War II.

You know, it just meant, it literally meant you were caught in the greatest updraft in history.

And I think for a long time, a lot of us, including myself, credited our success, credited our character and our grit, not recognizing, you know what, we just got really, really lucky.

And I think that these academics are pointing out that, hey, guys, you know, how much of this is luck and how much of this is bad luck?

And it also brings up a really interesting notion with Andrew Yang, who I want to thank you.

You turned me on to Yang.

This notion of university.

Yang gang.

You know, this freedom.

Are you part of the Yang Gang now?

You know what?

So

I'm really interested in this notion of transfers of wealth.

And whenever you talk about redistribution, and I'm really on my soapbox now, whenever we talk about increasing taxes for the rich, the Republicans say, well, that's a redistribution of wealth.

The greatest redistribution of wealth in the history of mankind has been happening for about 30 or 40 years, and that's a redistribution of wealth from poor, young people to older, rich people in the form of capital gains, tax cuts, mortgage tax deduction.

And then the ultimate wealth transfer is social security.

And I like the idea of Andrew Yang's

freedom dividend, but I think it should be adjusted for income.

But there's something here that we...

He's talked about that.

He talked about that too.

If certain people don't get it, we need to have a serious readjustment or re-leveling from the transfer of wealth from young and poor people to old and rich people that has taken place over the last 20 or 30 years that has really punctured any meritocracy.

Agreed.

I had a really good podcast with Stephen Greenhouse from the New York, a former New York Times report who's written a book about American labor.

He has a lot to say about that, about UBI and more than that in the transfer of wealth.

And also Steve Schwartzmann from Blackstone, who had a different opinion, as you might imagine.

He's one of the most highly paid executives in history, I guess.

Very talented.

What did you takeaways from his interview?

I'd like to interview that, but what were kind of one or two interesting takeaways?

I find him to be, he's so allied with Trump.

Every Democrat is terrible.

You know what I mean?

Anyone who's anti-business is terrible.

I think,

but he's done so much philanthropy that is so effective.

Like, I've kind of like, it's a mixed bag because I think

he's so on the Trump train.

I'm sort of like, you're so smart, really?

Like, do you know what I mean?

On some of the stuff.

And I think I was surprised by that, that much

defensiveness of Trump.

But, you know, I think I still have an issue.

You know, a lot of fascinating things about his like Schwarzman scholars that he's doing in China.

He very pressed in to bring hundreds of kids to China to interact with the Chinese.

I thought that was super smart.

And

I do find, obviously he's brilliant in many ways.

And so I just was sort of fascinated.

I think he still, I think he,

and I asked him at the end what he would do now if he was a 20-year-old, what do you go into?

The stuff he just picked was really fascinating.

He had a real knowledge of entertainment, how the entertainment world is changing.

He'd still go into finance.

He thinks that's undergoing a really interesting thing.

And so it was very, it was interesting.

I just, the only thing was that he just absolutely believes all Democrats don't like business.

And I just, that's just not true.

It's just not, it was, it was sort of a crouch position.

You have to be in a crouch position if you're, if you're an advisor to Trump.

And then the other part was he kept saying, saying, you know, I'm just a businessman.

And I'm like, what are you talking about?

Like, that was my favorite part.

I'm like, oh, yeah, you're just a regular bidnet guy who happens to have the ear of the president, who obviously reveres you.

And you're so powerful.

It was, I love when they do that to me.

I'm sort of like, yeah, other than having a big fat finger on kind of the nuclear codes or the button, he's probably in many ways more powerful than any president because there's more longevity there.

And what you brought up was sort of an interesting point around finance is in fact a lot of kids, when I say kids, my students come to me and ask me what industry they should go into.

And there's a great study right now looking at funding to seed startups.

And basically, funding to any seed startup is a function, or the volume of it is a function of the sector.

And what's entirely obvious is all the sectors like retail, social, media, all the funding to those seed startups is collapsed.

Why?

Because there's monopolies and no one wants to fund companies competing against monopolies.

Whereas funding to things like blockchain, finance, microcredit is still really strong because those are not going to be winners.

That's right.

There's no monopoly there to kick you into the walls over and over.

So, again, which is

word memo to the FTC and DOJ.

We are in winter right now.

We're in the worst of both worlds possible because the number of acquisitions that Big Four have made has declined by 72% year on year because they're worried about raising antitrust scrutiny.

At the same time, we don't have startups.

So we have an absolute killing, an absolute infanticide of innovation right now.

And until the DOJ and the FTC get on it and either break these guys up or, quite frankly, and I hope this doesn't happen, say, all right, we're not breaking them up and they begin acquiring companies again and investing.

We are literally in winter here.

So we're in the worst.

Agreed.

And that's why my win this week was Attorney General's several of them moving forward with joint antitrust investigations.

The more pressure brought to bear, the Wall Street Journal, the specific number of states might join the investigation couldn't be learned.

The one person from what the effort said, up to 20 or more may participate.

States getting together, especially if California is part of that, is going to be a big deal.

So we'll see.

What is your fail very quickly?

And then we'll go ahead and get it.

You and I have

the same exact fail.

And I've been doing all the speaking here, so I want you to talk about it.

Our reporter, Shireen Ghaffari, has reported that DoorDash is still taking tips from its workers, even though it promised to change quickly and it has not.

There you have it.

Yeah, that's great reporting.

And I did a hot take on this yesterday.

You know,

I worked services jobs through high school and college.

I was a box boy in a union.

I was a waiter.

I was a bus boy.

I was a pool boy at the Mondrian Hotel in West Hollywood.

And you know what?

Generous people on a regular basis would change my life.

When you're working on a Sunday, and this is the, you know, walking through snowstory, during the summer at UCLA, I needed to save a certain amount of money and I lived on top ramen and bananas.

And you can live on top ramen and bananas.

It's not a, you know, it's not a, it's not a, you know, what was me story.

And occasionally some really generous person would tip me 10, 20.

A couple of times, I'd get 50 bucks and it would change my life that day.

I remember I would come home to them and say to my roommate, we're going to Sizzler.

Remember Sizzler ads?

It was like, we used to be.

No, I did not go to Sizzler.

Sizzler's the best.

All you can eat.

All you can eat.

Malibu chicken $4.99.

With a coupon.

It's a coupon from the Daily Brewing.

And I would go to Sizzler.

I used to love the commercials and say, I don't don't have a lot of money and I don't have a lot of time.

We used to say, I don't have a lot of money.

I don't have a lot of class.

Sizzler.

Anyway.

We used to go to the bank.

I always wanted to go to those restaurants.

And I grew up in a wealthy environment.

I did.

And my mom was like, no way.

Oh, the Sizzler was gangster.

Anyways,

I never had a blooming onion.

Let me just say from the outback, I never had a blooming onion.

I know that's a sad tale in the world for a rich girl, but that was.

But my point is, tipping, the generosity of people is it makes a huge difference in people's lives it's a wonderful thing and it happens about a million times a day in america and door dash has decided to fuck this wonderful a lot of them it's not just door dash it looks like amazon like a lot of people are are taking their tip money yeah you don't take people's tip money that's the situation according to us door dash fail and they should know kira swisher and scott galley Eyes on DoorDash.

We're watching.

30 days ago, they said they were changing it.

And guess what?

They haven't.

They haven't.

Eyes, baby.

We're watching watching

we're watching we're watching you especially sizzler sizzler sizzler scott so that's your nickname um so last thing prediction very quickly we got to get out of here sure we got to get back to beat so my prediction is i think spotify is going to come out with a hardware device i think spotify has the capital the northern european genetics to come up with incredible design i think music is i don't want to say desperate for a different type of hardware but i i think what hardware what are they going to make on ipod answers i don't know but i think you asked for a prediction i'm trying to do something something bold and different here.

And there was a rumor.

They filed with the FCC that they're thinking about, that they filed the requisite paperwork to release a consumer device.

And I think Spotify, I think a European, Northern European design element listening device or some sort of audio device is

brought to you by Spotify, has Win written all over it.

So my prediction

is within the next six to 12 months, Spotify comes out with a piece of hardware for streaming for music.

That's fascinating.

How does it battle Apple and Google?

Like, come on, like, my kids listen on their phones, everything.

I can't imagine them having a separate device to listen to music.

Well, the device, the two technologies.

I think they could massage their shoulders or something.

The most innovative devices right now, I think, in

audio are obviously Amazon's Echo device.

And also, I think Sonos does a great job.

And I really like the CEO there.

I think he's a high-character, high-integrity guy.

And I'm a big fan of Sonos.

But I think there's a lot of room.

When you look at how big that medium is, look at all the innovation.

You know, TVs are amazing.

They get better and better every year.

Look at all the innovation around phones.

When you think about our listening devices, I don't know, other than the ones in your ears, I'm talking about a home listening device.

I think there's a lot of room for innovation.

Spotify has the capital, the content.

They could go vertical.

They could make the device differentiated based on the Spotify service.

So I think this is begging for Spotify to come into the hardware space.

That is a big prediction, Scott.

If that happens, you will be brilliant.

Yeah.

And if it doesn't, we'll just ignore it and I'll just be me.

I'll just be me.

All right.

That's a great prediction.

I'm going to leave you on the prediction, except I want to know when, when, what time does the war with Denmark start?

That's right.

The Danes.

The Danes.

Yeah.

It's just, I have no prediction.

Have you been to Copenhagen?

What?

Have you been to Denmark?

Copenhagen?

Of course, many times.

Wonderful city.

I'm a rich kid.

Of course, I went to Europe for 100 times.

There you go.

I didn't go.

I was there with my son.

I didn't go because they don't have a sizzler there.

So I'm like, that's it.

They don't.

That's it.

No, we should move to Northern Europe.

We would be, but we would be much less successful in Northern European.

It would be like MSNBC when there's a Democrat in office.

No one would give a shit.

Everything we be saying would be like, yeah, I agree with that.

Yeah, that makes sense.

It's wonderful.

Well, let us end on a quote from Hamlet then.

Okay.

This above all to thine own self be true.

There you go.

Wow.

There's a little learning for you.

Wow.

Good stuff.

Yeah.

I'd want another one.

Yes, definitely.

More things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

I should have been an actor.

Acting.

You should have been.

You take it to be or not to be.

All right, I'll leave us with a quote.

Sometimes it's darkest before it's pitch black.

When is this all going to end, Kara?

When is this all going to end?

Never.

All right.

All right.

It's not going to, Scott.

Like you said, good and bad.

Good and bad.

Good to see you.

What a pleasure to meet your mother.

Thank you.

Oh, that was, that was that.

That was nice.

And thanks.

Yeah.

Careful.

Don't turn your back on her.

That's what I say to you.

Before we end, I want a quick plug for my other podcast, Rico Decode, because you'll like this and we'll talk about it next week.

Today's episode is a big panel discussion about CDA and Section 230.

We had Kerry Goldberg, Jeff Kossuff, and Mike Masnick.

It was a really good substantive discussion with three experts.

So please check it out.

And we're going to talk.

I want you to listen to that one, Scott, because that was really interesting.

And I also want to call out an email we got this week from a listener named Shane.

He was at our live show in New York on Tuesday, and he says he loved it.

Your show was so refreshing and direct.

Refreshing.

That's us.

That's us refreshing.

Exactly.

We're refreshing like a beverage.

Shane also says the crazy news cycle today reminds him of Howard Beale's famous rant, A Network.

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.

What do you think, Scott?

Are you ready to fling open your window and start shouting into the streets of Nantucket?

That guy's a role model of mine.

I love that.

Probably Faye Dunaway's best film.

That's a great movie.

Network.

Okay.

That didn't end well for Howard Beale.

Yeah.

Yeah.

FYI.

Anyway, I saw Brian Cranston in the new version of it on Broadway.

Oh my God.

Brian Cranston?

Greatest series in the history of television, breaking bad.

He was great on this role.

It was amazing.

Amazing.

Amazing.

Amazing show.

I'm sorry you didn't see it, but I enjoyed it.

I'm in New York.

I'm going to see Mulan Rouge this week, too.

What's Mulan Rouge doing?

It's a new play on Broadway.

It's a big hit.

Anyway, I'm not even going to, it's culture, Scott.

Pretty hard to sell that as complicated.

Go to the Sizzler.

Go to the Sizzler.

It's pretty hard to sell that as compelling.

Do that after you listen to the CBA panel.

Jesus Christ.

All right.

For those of us who are

not screaming yet,

you can send us politely worded indoor voice email with your comments and suggestions to pivot at Voxmedia.com.

We really do listen to that.

Scott,

I will be with you again next week.

I'm very excited.

And we will plan our city that we're going to go to.

I think it should be Tampa.

Tampa.

What do you think?

Dude, I'm thinking,

I think in Miami.

I think the big dog and the big cat go a little Latin, a little sexy, a little hot hot erotic.

That's right.

I'm going to end on that.

I'm going to stop you.

Let's go.

All right.

Today's show is produced by Rebecca Sinanis and Eric Johnson.

Eric Anderson is Pivot's executive producer.

Thanks also to Rebecca Castro, Drew Burroughs, and Nishat Kirwa.

Special thanks to Jeff Geld for mixing this episode.

Make sure you're subscribed to the show on Apple podcast.

If you liked this week's episode, leave us a review.

Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media.

We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

This month on Explain It to Me, we're talking about all things wellness.

We spend nearly $2 trillion on things that are supposed to make us well.

Collagen smoothies and cold plunges, Pilates classes and fitness trackers.

But what does it actually mean to be well?

Why do we want that so badly?

And is all this money really making us healthier and happier?

That's this month on Explain It To Me, presented by Pureleaf.

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