Facebook’s latest scandal and the "tyranny of technology"

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Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

And I'm Scott Galloway, staring at Kara Swisher, which is

an enormous treat in the same room.

So you can probably feel the banter and the electricity buzz of being in the same room, Kara.

Yes, here we are.

Here we are in New York City.

So there's a lot to talk about.

So let's get into it because we've only got a few more shows before the new year.

But obviously, again, we're talking about Facebook.

Another story from the New York Times, again, about Facebook's violation of privacy, which is something they've been doing since the beginning.

But a really bad one, again, selective handing out of information to different groups depending on partnerships and things like that.

Aaron Powell, Jr.: And what is your sense of how was this determined?

Was this pure oversight or was it a pay-to-play thing?

Who got special?

Different things.

Different people got different things for different partnerships.

I think that's the thing, is that they were sort of, they were giving special,

you know, they weren't selling the data, they were giving it away as part of partnerships.

And then it depended on whether it was the Royal Bank of Canada or Netflix or Spotify or Bing or things like that.

And so various, they gave away various bits bits of privacy.

And sometimes

the partners didn't even use it or didn't intend to use it.

But they were just, yeah, they were just, it was, you know, they had this partnerships thing, I think it was under Dan Rose, who has since left Facebook.

And I think they just were making partnership after partnership

to advantage Facebook.

And part of the deal, as they did with the Cambridge Analytica Information, to give to third parties to attract people to the platform, they give away different Bennies, essentially.

So I read this as consumers love frictionless content and things for free.

And this is part of the downside.

But

have you heard, have you reached out to Facebook?

What's their official response on this?

Well, they did.

They gave responses that we have been trying to be transparent.

I think the issue is that it piles onto other things, Facebook misusing data.

And whether, you know, it's interesting because I put up something like this more than anything, it shows kind of sloppy management of partnerships, really.

People were like, no, it's criminal.

No, it's this.

It's not criminal necessarily.

And the question is, who's going to decide whether people gave consent, whether they should have gave consent?

I think

it'll get all people on the Hill all mad because they're already angry about the Russia stuff.

And we'll get to that because something else came out earlier this week about Facebook and Twitter and Google.

But I think it's a question of

their sort of sloppy management of data and their voracious

sucking in of data at the same time.

Trevor Burrus So but my question is this feels a little bit Trumpian in the sense that when there's so many dumpster fires, you just see a fire and one dumpster fire doesn't look any brighter than the other.

Are we just becoming inoculated or or numbed in that?

No, I think people, I think this kind of stuff does get Congress going and get regulators going.

And you just saw today the District of Columbia is suing Facebook based on the Cambridge Analytica stuff.

So I think just what happens is a pile on, which has happened to them before when they had Beacon, if you remember, it just was a much smaller environment.

And now everybody is piling on.

And it's not just, what's interesting is there's one sort of attack from the privacy angle and what people gave consent to and the misuse of data or the use of data properly, but not in ways people people thought it was being used, and whether that was illegal or not illegal.

And then there's the question of malevolent actors using the platform as it was built.

And then there's an issue of addiction.

And then there's an it just, it all sort of mushes up together and gets away from the fact is, are people using this product and do they like using this product even at the cost of privacy?

But at this point, I would argue there doesn't seem to be any evidence that consumers care.

Yet.

I don't agree with that.

I think young people don't want to use Facebook.

I don't know if it's because of privacy issues.

I think it's other, it's uncool, I think, pretty much.

But the issue is, can they, facing all these various things, can they continue to innovate and run their company when they're facing so many inquiries?

Which is, you know, what happened to Microsoft.

It happens to all of them.

Yeah, it's just,

you know the mood there, and you hear so little about it.

I used to hear from Facebook.

People would call me, the people I know there, and say, Scott, you need to stop piling on.

It sounds personal.

You look ridiculous.

And I don't hear from those people anymore.

I don't hear any of them.

They're gone.

Yeah.

A lot of people I've been talking to at Facebook want to leave for sure.

They want out.

They want out.

Yeah.

And no fun.

And where do they go?

I mean, what they just want.

They're not worried about their personal reputations.

A lot of people I've had coffee with, they're like, oh, how do I look?

They want to go to Instagram?

Yeah, right.

I know Instagram's own by Facebook.

No, the Instagram guy left because he was sick of this stuff.

Yeah, Kevin Seidstrom.

He was sick of the meddling of Facebook and the misuse of his platform, I think, in a lot of ways.

And so, what do you think?

I mean, you know, I always have my talk track over breaking these guys up, but what do you think actually happens?

So death by a thousand cuts, but what does death look like?

What's going to happen here?

I don't know.

I don't know.

It's a good question.

I think possibly, you know, they could be spurred into management change.

I think that's probably what happens a lot of time.

There's pressure from the board.

We got to do something.

Like, you can imagine there's a meeting right now going on at Facebook's board going, oh, Jesus, either it's let's just sit still, which is what they've done before in the past when these things happen, and be very quiet and just promise things,

which is their way, which has been their history.

That's how they handle a lot of this stuff.

Or do they actually say, okay, we're going to get a new CEO in here to run thing?

Are we going to replace Cheryl Samberg?

Are we going to replace Blank?

You could see departures by certain people, maybe Joel Kaplan, maybe, you know, who knows?

That just feels.

When you say management change, there's only really two people that would constitute a management change.

There's more people, but you don't know them.

But yes, okay.

But from a public perception standpoint.

Cheryl and Mark.

It's Cheryl and Mark.

And so

you didn't agree with this, but I think Cheryl, I think think

the first time there's 90 seconds of calm or 90 days of calm, I think she announces she's going to run a foundation.

She declares victory and she leaves.

I've heard she has said people to people she has not.

Well, what is she?

No one says they're leaving until the day they're going to be.

No, I think she means it.

I think she wants to clean it up.

But what the board should be doing is kicking Mark up to chairman and bringing in a new CEO.

That would, in my view,

restore the stock price,

send a signal.

And also, everyone says, look,

they can't do it because he controls the board.

But if you actually play it out, what happens?

If the board all holds hands around the fire and gets in the boat together and puts out a press release saying we're removing him as CEO, he's going to be chairman.

The next day, he's not going to replace all of them.

Trust me when I tell you that.

There's no way Mark Andreessen and Peter Teal will do that to Mark Guckerberg ever.

And why is that?

Because they are.

They will not.

Because they know their personal relationships.

They just won't.

They won't do it.

They won't.

That's not their mentality.

They're very victim-y, like we're being attacked.

Yeah.

Well, they aren't.

The board has been.

The board actually hasn't come under fire, in my view.

No, but

we are in this together as a group, and he hasn't done anything that bad.

And he's built the greatest company in history and blah, blah, blah, blah.

And that probably means you need new board members or you need to start calling out the board as responsible for the program.

I think I will do that.

Well, just listing their names and tweeting at them and saying, what's your view on this?

Hey, Reed Hastings, does this mean your platform is next to be weaponized?

Right.

And also, Netflix was involved in this, that they got some sort of private messages.

I wasn't really clear what the data they were getting.

They were getting unusual.

I mean, everyone had a deal with Facebook.

Why wouldn't you?

Because, you know, that's where

the information is.

Yeah, and what it goes down, it kind of comes down to is the reason Netflix won't be weaponized is that social media is nicotine.

It's addictive.

It's not good for you.

I would argue it's not that bad for you.

But the tobacco here, the stuff that gives you cancer is advertising.

Yeah.

Because it's a pursuit of more engagement, which leads to rage, which leads to a lack of concern around screening content and advertisers.

That's the stuff that gives you lung cancer.

So Netflix, Spotify, much less likely to be weaponized.

It's the ad-supported, I mean, the bottom line is advertising, despite all the fun we have watching Mad Men, advertising really is the source of evil here.

It's the business model.

What would be interesting is, I don't know if this could ever work, but if you tried to model out

charging, charging for Facebook or Instagram.

Yeah, someone was putting that up on Twitter just now.

$12 for a social network that is just private.

Yeah, because what's shocking about advertising is that the lack of respect that the ecosystem and brands have for your time.

So, Modern Family, fantastic show.

ABC and Disney are able to get 49 cents per viewer by pelting you with nine minutes of crap.

To convince you you have Russell Slake syndrome and you need a car from South Korea and interrupt that gorgeous content, you know, three times nine minutes, they get a grand total of 49 cents.

So, if you think your time is worth more than $2 and whatever it is, I'm sorry, more than nine, so more than two dollars and 40 cents an hour, you'll pay iTunes.

But I wonder if we are slowly but surely moving to a more subscription model.

And that's a sort of, maybe that's switchable thinking.

But if you look at the media

that's increased tens of millions of dollars in the last few years, it's got one of two things.

It's either got massive scale, we're talking billions of people, right?

YouTube or Facebook, or it's subscription-based.

It's Spotify, it's Netflix, and it doesn't have the carcinogen or the pre-cancer cells of ad-supported media, which when you look at it, is really the source of all problems here.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I think lots of people have talked about Tim Cook.

Is it time for a commercial prayer?

No, it's not.

No, no, no, not at all.

No, yeah, talk about it.

Yeah.

Speaking of that, but there's different

kinds of different

kind of advertising.

We're not sitting around really highly targeting people in the way that this is happening.

This is a different kind of advertising that has changed things.

I mean, one is some spray and pray ad is very different from what's going on here.

And that brings to mind the detailed report given to the Senate Intelligence Committee, two of them, about how social media was used for the Russian election interference.

It wasn't just Facebook, it was Twitter and Google's YouTube and others.

The report also showed specific, one of the reports showed specific targeting of African Americans on Facebook and Instagram.

It caused all kinds of things.

There were lots of details in this.

And then I think the shoe that really dropped is like that the government said that these companies are not helping us.

They're giving us information in dribs and drabs.

They're not giving us all the information we need to figure out what happened.

And so we're really angry at them for that.

That was also an accusation that they're not helping us figure out how their platforms were misused over the past couple of years.

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Well, it was sort of the, if you look at what the judge has, all these judges have been saying to Michael Cohen and Michael Flynn, they want it both ways.

They want to look like they're helping for purposes of getting leniency from the court, but they're not really coming clean, so to speak.

And the judges aren't having it.

No.

They're saying,

you either turn states out,

you either cooperate or you don't.

There's no middle ground.

And they all sort of want to be able to say to the President, kind of inadvertently, I held the line, please pardon me.

Right.

And I think these judges or people are saying the same thing about these social media platforms is that when Congress has asked for data, it turns out that they weren't as forthright as they could have been.

And

I just wonder, do we have, and this is the danger, right?

Is that when for-profit companies become so powerful that they effectively become the government, that we're just outgunned.

And if you have people who don't understand the technologies, people who don't have the will, people who are working on a re-election campaign and need donors,

and this stuff's complicated and hard and you're up against huge adversaries, do Google and Facebook and Amazon effectively become our government and we continue this march towards tyranny?

Tyranny.

The tyranny of technology.

Well, the tyranny of technology.

But when you look at really bad areas

in our history, there's been oftentimes there's been a common theme, and that is private enterprise has become too powerful and become the government.

Well, I think that's the question.

I mean, I think

is that what's going to happen here?

Or will there be, I mean, government has stepped in before with big oil, big this, big that, Microsoft, ATT.

This has happened.

They're not that dumb.

Like, to say, to abrogate the responsibility of regulating these companies, I think that's what happened.

Is these people have no rules and there's been no rules.

I was talking to some days.

They're like, well, we need more legislation.

I'm like, any legislation.

Anything.

Anything.

There's no legislation legislating these companies or a very de minimis amount.

I can't even think.

What do we do?

Well, even strip away content decision.

You can name 10 media bills, media laws.

What are any well, even just taking away regulations?

So there was regulation in 1997, I think, with the Content Decency Act, that exempted these nascent platforms.

Immunity.

Immunity.

And just take that.

Is that section 30?

Thanks very much, Gary.

So it's, yeah, it's just taking that away.

But the key word there, and if we're going to be hopeful about 19, because I'm always Debbie Dimer on that stuff, you would like to think that 19 would be the year of immunities kicking in?

Immunities.

What do you mean?

Well, have we had enough?

Are we going to start proposing regulation?

Are we going to start holding these companies responsible?

Are we finally getting our arms around this?

Bezos actually said that every new media form creates problems.

So when books were first printed, some books started wars.

But then we figured out how to deal with these medium and immunities kicked in.

So the optimistic viewpoint is that the immunities, Senator Warner, California's privacy legislation, people getting fed up, that the immunities ideally are starting to kick in.

Well, we'll see.

I don't know.

But until then, we're going to take a quick prey.

Coming up next, we'll hear an advertiser segment that's not targeted to anybody.

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We're back with Scott Galloway and I are talking about Facebook as we always do.

We've got to get on to other things.

Like,

I wish we could talk about just, you know, you saw Walt Mossberg came off

of things.

So we're going to do wins and fails.

I'm gonna start.

I'm gonna do a win.

Walt Mossberg, like getting off of Facebook and making having a Walt Mossberg tantrum, which I always love.

He's done.

Tell us about the tantrum.

He said he's off of Facebook and

he's continuing to tweet.

He just sent me another one about he's always been, yeah, he's had it.

He's he's mad as hell.

He's not going to take it anymore.

So

he goes, the perfidious behavior of Facebook starts with and goes well beyond its betrayal of you just privacy.

And then of course he he wrote another one until he got media trained.

Growth at fa at any cost at Facebook's driving principle forever.

Until he got media trained, Mark Zuckerberg could barely put a sentence together about privacy, which we did that famous interview with his sweat.

And before that, Walt had said he was getting off of Facebook.

Where did you meet Walt?

You guys were sort of the peanut butter and chocolate of this whole thing.

We met at a lunch where we argued about where the internet was going.

When he was at the Wall Street Journal.

He was at the Wall Street Journal.

I was at the Washington Post, and I was writing a book.

I want that guy as my rabbi.

Can you ask him if he'll be my rabbi?

No, he cannot do that.

He's busy being mine.

He seems smart.

He is.

I think what was interesting is he was sort of did what Walt does really well, which is sort of this indignant anger at these things and sort of tried to crystallize it from a consumer point of view, which is you're being rolled, and this is why I'm getting off.

And then what was interesting, he says, you don't have to.

And by the way, I'll be back if they change things.

So it was kind of an interesting way to do it.

So I think he was.

Here's the issue.

So Walt, they hate to lose Walt because he's an influencer.

But he's not the demo.

But they don't mind him because he's old.

And advertisers hate old people because they're smart.

Young people are stupid and spend money on high-margin products like tennis shoes with swooshes on them or a $40

lip liner.

But old people are smart and start investing in relationships and just aren't stupid.

No, I think young people, my kids do not like the invasions of privacy.

Except for your kids.

No, no, no, no, but I think kids do care about privacy.

I do.

I don't think that's true.

I don't think they're clear.

I don't think you don't care about it.

Here, take my picture.

Winner fail of the week, please.

So mine are sort of strange.

So the Journal of Psychogeriatrics has done this great study.

All right, speaking of old people.

There you go.

Talking about loneliness.

I think loneliness is going to be a big, I think kind of loneliness is the new cancer, if you will.

And they found that you have three eras, areas of real loneliness in terms of your life.

In your 20s, when you realize you're not going to be a senator, have a fragrance named after you, when you start anchoring off the most successful people, and you're not one of them.

In your 50s, when you start to find that you might have pre-diabetes or you know someone who dies, and then you're in the late 80s, where actually my dad is where, quite frankly, you just don't have a whole hell of a lot to look forward to.

And

what's interesting is three-quarters of people surveyed reported some sort of moderate to severe loneliness.

And that loneliness, suffering from loneliness, is kind of the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day, that it's really bad for you.

Not a surprise.

So I think my win is this journal raising the issue of loneliness.

I think it's going to be a big issue in the next couple of years.

And the thing that counteracts it is, in addition to socializing, is wisdom.

And that is empathy, the ability to make decisions and be comfortable with your decisions, you know, perspective around relationships and disappointment.

But I think loneliness, I think this study is really powerful.

You sound lonely.

I'm lonely all the time, Kara.

I wish I was lonely right now.

I hate my life less and less every day, though.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, what's interesting because I think one of the things is how much does the use of screens and everything contribute to that?

How much does it isolate people?

Isolation, I think, is the link to it.

And the question is, how do we get, there's one school of thought that you have these screens and people that were isolated before get to be part of the community, that they get to be, even if it's a digital community.

So that helps from isolation.

Then there's others that say it isolates people from each other.

I would say the latter is obviously when you when you walk down the street when you see people on the buses entering like I'm riding the subway here a lot and everybody's on their phones.

But then again, they were always reading a newspaper.

So I'm trying to think if it's a different kind of isolation than when you're pulled into your phone versus reading a newspaper or a book or something else.

So seriously, I find the only thing that really cures it for me is time with my kids for some reason.

But also I've decided that my cure for 19 is I'm getting a comfort monkey.

What?

I'm going to get a comfort monkey.

I'm going to get a monkey and I'm going to bring it on planes with me.

I'm sick of those fucking comfort animals.

I can't sit down.

Last week it was yoga and now comfort animals.

Oh my god, it's out of control.

It's labradoodles, there's dogs.

It's so out of control.

Is it?

Everyone's bringing their dogs on and saying, I need this because I'm anxious.

I'm like, well, you know what?

There's a cure for anxiety on planes.

It's called vodka.

So I have comfort vodka.

You have a comfort fucking poodle.

Get off the plane.

What bothers you about a pet?

What do you care?

No, I don't know.

I just think, have you been on planes lately?

There's animals everywhere.

I understand that.

That's fine.

Yeah.

Animals and kids should be be banned from all forms of transportation.

Okay, but what is the problem with them there?

Do they bother you?

Is there anything that they do there?

Yeah, I have a labradoodle on my feet.

And I like dogs.

I just think it's out of the way.

You can't put a labradoodle on your feet.

What is the big deal?

Put them over drug them and put them in the hull.

Really?

Yeah.

No, because they freeze down there.

I love animals in the main.

Occasionally they do.

You like that?

I do.

Do you have a comfort animal?

I don't have a comfort animal.

I pay the money to put my cat in the main cabin, for example, when I travel with my cat.

I have cats.

I have dogs.

I i have cats and dogs got it got it they have all pets now i'm getting a comfort monkey and i want to we're going to travel together and i'm going to have a gobo next to me and i'm going to see how much you like it's negative you know there's a tricky monkey someone tried to bring a peacock on delta really a comfort peacock they said the pilot came out and said sorry no no peacocks no peacocks because they like get big right they can cause problems and they are large feathered animals yeah like yeah i think what i'm interested in someone was saying the other day was like allergies and stuff like that i wonder if you're allergic to cats and stuff what you do when a cat is on a plane like what what do you do?

You're kind of stuck there in a tube of death.

I know a guy who recently got married, a fairly powerful private equity guy, and his wife is into cats.

And part of the agreement was in their prenuptials that he would get allergy shots.

I don't know what got me on that.

Okay.

All right, then.

Loneliness.

Loneliness.

Getting a comfort amongst us.

Okay, Scott.

All right.

Now, I would like your predictions, please.

Any predictions for this week?

I don't have predictions for this week.

Our next episode, we're reviewing all of our predictions for 18 and 19.

But

I have another loser coming up.

Okay, another one.

All right, yeah, do another loser.

So everyone's totally obsessed with the Dow Jones Industrial Average.

Including Donald Trump, who's also Mr.

Tariff Man, right?

He's either Mr.

Dow Jones Man or Mr.

Tariff Man.

And it's probably.

We can't live together, those two.

It's probably the most famous metric in the world.

And metrics are really important because which gets measured, gets done.

And unfortunately, the Dow Jones Industrial Average is essentially 80 or 88 percent of the stock spending on the survey you look at are controlled by the top decile of income earners in America.

Right.

So the Dow Jones Industrial Average is a relevant metric to measure the economic health of the upper decile.

And that's about it.

Meanwhile, life expectancy has declined three years in a row for the first time in the history of our country during a non-war period

because there's all these unmarked graves of

not politically connected, not wealthy, mostly kids who are addicted,

overdosed on opioids.

Wages haven't grown in a long time.

So I think my loser, I think the Dow Jones Industrial Average is just a terrible metric and has led to a lot of damage because it creates this false illusion of security and prosperity.

Interesting.

Meaning that people aren't prosperous.

We're Talking about depression and over time.

God, what's going on with you this week?

You're lonely?

You're worried about the stock.

Did you lose some money on the stock market?

Did I lose some money?

Oh my God, I've gotten the shit kicked out of me over the last three or four years.

Don't pay attention to it.

Don't?

Don't just don't look.

Are you planning on retiring next week?

I'd like to.

Are you?

Ready?

No.

No.

So what are you worried about?

Wow, it's called academia.

Okay, all right.

But so what are you worried about?

Do you need that money right now?

Well, here's the thing.

I don't know about you, but the problem is I always anchor off the high, and I think that's the natural state of beings.

So I don't see myself as being ahead of where I was a year ago, which is where I am.

I see myself as being 20% down from four months ago.

And that's a lack of wisdom, which creates loneliness and my need for a comfort monkey.

Oh, this is getting better and better.

Last year, you were hating yourself.

When do we start drinking?

We start drinking.

We don't start drinking.

There's a kid with a beard.

What do you think?

This is an Elon Musk podcast with Joe Rogan.

No, we don't do drugs on this podcast.

It's a drug-free zone.

Bring the label.

No, not at all.

In any case, Scott, that was a lovely whatever diatribe.

Somehow you you link comfort mummies to the Dow Jones Industrial Average.

What are your wins and fails?

I told you, Walt Mossberg.

He's a good family.

Oh, Walt, he's the winner.

He's the winner.

I don't know.

I think the interesting part of Amazon getting into healthcare as it marches into everything else is interesting, but that's a topic for another day.

That's a good one.

I'm telling you, that's the big, and we're going to take a look at it.

They're going to get into everything.

They do everything really well.

Yeah, but that healthcare, though, if you want to look at an industry

that is, there is, other than my industry, academia, which has the benefit of century-old brands that are difficult to disrupt, in my view, I mean, it's just hard to build MIT overnight.

Healthcare, what great brands are there in healthcare?

Seriously, it's a bunch of really mediocre brands.

And it's gone from 12% of GDP to 18%.

I'll tell you, if I were coming out of college right now, I would want to be the Gar Gal that understands the intersection of technology and healthcare.

Well, yeah, but that's been tried.

Everyone's tried it.

Google's tried it.

Microsoft's tried it.

I honestly, I want, yeah, Oscar, there's Oscar.

That was a Kushner.

That was

Josh Kushner, not

Josh Kushner.

The Kushner that is someone you can talk to.

So he's actually very,

I got introduced to him a couple of years ago.

I went downtown and I felt so deficient.

I'm like, literally, okay.

He's carried to a supermodel.

Yeah, that's a shocker.

That's a shocker.

They have a comfort monkey, I understand.

So much more attractive, comfortable.

So much more successful, has such better hair than me.

I'm like,

how did that happen and how did I have it?

That's a low bar, Scott.

Yeah, seriously, right?

But I don't remember a thing he said.

I just remember feeling totally insecure when I walked out of that.

Anyway, in any case,

Amazon getting into healthcare is interesting.

And you kind of welcome someone to do something that would create.

We're ready.

And

the link you forwarded me on testing, I mean, think about what they could do, right?

They know your body mass index because I closed.

They know what food you order.

They know what pharmaceuticals you're in.

And Amazon is great at sitting on top of a data set and figuring out what companies or what industries or sectors of healthcare are good to be in and which one are bad to be in.

So batteries, great business, we're going into it.

Swiss vacuum cleaner, shitty business, we'll just let them on our platform and charge them eight to 12%.

I think they could literally start.

And the scary part is they could start skimming off the healthiest families in America, which would be terrible for the rest of them because the key to insurance is convincing healthy families to go into these pools with unhealthy families.

But I think that's the big

kind of optimistic or interesting business story of 19 is

big tech going into healthcare.

I think it's going to be and maybe a couple retail people.

Well, but they've been there.

I don't know.

We'll see.

We'll see.

I'd be interesting to see what happens.

I mean, that is an area that's certainly ripe for disruption.

100%.

Absolutely.

All right, Scott, let's go get a drink and wash this off.

I like it.

Let's go.

I'm in.

I'm ready.

Bring your monkey.

Comfort vodka.

Comfort.

What vodka do you order?

I don't, Scott.

I don't.

You know what?

Occasionally I start moving.

When I get a little bit of drunk, I feel like I need to spread some Scott moves around.

I start thinking I have rhythm.

But

you know who thinks I'm a great dancer?

Who?

Bourbon.

Bourbon thinks I'm an awesome dancer.

I went and watched a Tango class last week.

It was funny.

You watched a Tango class?

Yeah, someone I'm seeing is

anyone who goes to a dance class and is not learning dance is trying to impress somebody.

No, I was fascinated by it.

Yeah, I bet.

Yeah, fascinated by the prospect of having sex with this person after the Tango.

No, you know what, Scott?

Once again, you can't get it.

Where's the guy?

Bring it back.

Where's the comfort monkey?

It was a lovely, beautiful expression of art.

Tango is.

It was really lovely.

It was really nice.

Anyway.

Good stuff, Carol.

We'll talk to you next week.

All right.

Have a good good week.

All right, Rebecca Sinanes produces this show.

Nishad Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio.

Thanks also to Eric Johnson.

Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media.

Join us next week for more breakdown on all things tech and business.

If you like what you heard, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening.

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