Billionaire Personality Disorder

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Welcome to Pod Save America.

I'm Jon Favreau.

I'm Simone Sanders-Townsend.

I'm Jon Lovett.

I'm Tommy Bitor.

I'm Dan Pfeiffer.

We got a great show for you tonight. Your senator, Bob Casey, is here.
And we are so lucky to have our friend Simone, co-host of MSNBC's The Weeknd. And in a past life, senior advisor to Vice President Kamala Harris.
right, so with less than 30 days left of the 2024 campaign, Donald Trump was here in Pennsylvania over the weekend for... Yeah, well, what are you going to do? Are we booing Pennsylvania? Just checking.
He was here for your typical October campaign event.

A rally in Butler at the site where he was shot

that included church bells, parachute divers,

an opera singer doing a rendition of Ave Maria,

and the world's richest man jumping up and down

in an Occupy Mars t-shirt and a MAGA hat.

Looks like he's having fun, huh? Which is what's important. Let's hear what new Trump surrogate Elon Musk had to say.
As you can see, I'm not just MAGA, I'm dark MAGA. You know, the true test of someone's character is how they behave under fire.
And we had one president who couldn't climb a flight of stairs. And another who was fist pumping after getting shot.
Fight, fight, fight. Blood coming down the face.
President Trump must win to preserve the Constitution. He must win to preserve democracy in America.
Text people now. Now.
And then make sure they actually do vote. If they don't, this will be the last election.
That's my prediction. Riveting.
So, Tommy, Elon's already been helping Trump's campaign by turning Twitter into a MAGA-friendly social media platform and amplifying right-wing conspiracies to his 200 million followers. He's also funding a super PAC that's now apparently in charge of Trump's ground game.

But how much value do you think he adds as an actual surrogate?

So, as we saw, Elon's not a great speaker.

It wasn't a great speech. It wasn't polished.

He's so online.

He tried to make this dark MAGA joke, which I assume was like a dark Brandon takeoff.

I still don't understand what he meant. No one got it in the crowd.
You're not alone.

He also said, he's so online he tried to make this dark maga joke which i assume was like a dark brandon takeoff i still don't understand no one got it in the crowd you're not alone um he also kind of hopped up and down it looked like he was kind of getting taken up with the rapture or maybe like he was also telling the story about the blood he sort of sounded like a 13 year old telling you about a movie they just watched but um the message overall i thought thought was okay. I mean, he's obviously incredibly enamored of the story of Trump's experience at Butler and the shooting.
He talked about freedom of speech. He talked about the Second Amendment.
He talked about voter ID laws. So things I think that connected with the audience.
He also, though, was really focused on voter registration and telling people to get registered and to bug their friends and was talking about registration deadlines in Arizona and Georgia. So I think, would I send Elon on a solo speaking tour? No.
He's a weirdo. He's not good in front of a crowd.
It didn't go well. But I think he kind of served the role that you might imagine a field organizer serving at a Harris event, being like, register to vote, tell five friends, bug them, be really annoying about it.
So he was like, he was okay. Simone, what's your reaction to Musk saying this will be the last election unless Trump wins? I thought that was our line.
Well, you know, they're telling us out loud what they're going to do. He's like, this will be the last election.
We will be sure of it. Me and Starlink are going to make sure it all goes down.
I just, I thought, I think Elon Musk is strange. Yeah.
I really do. I think he's strange.
And I think he is. And I think he is actually the physical embodiment of when you just have so much money, people will literally let you do anything.
Like the federal government is still putting lots of chips in Elon Musk's basket. Yet here he is helping, you know, dismantle democracy as we speak.
And sowing so much misinformation about what's happening in North Carolina and Tennessee and Georgia in the aftermath of Hurricane Helene. So I was just kind of like, why Elon? But maybe Elon Musk was like, I'll give you an extra bill if you let me get on stage.
Let me out there. So I don't know.
I just really feel like Donald Trump is not doing, this is not a campaign that's running an operation like they are trying to win. Where is your infrastructure? Where door knocks and what the hell does elon must know about running running um field operations who has he ever elected i was i'm very confused by the entire situation yeah it's and i think because it doesn't make any sense i think it doesn't make any sense i think it's confusing you know you wouldn't you just, he's a, who's speaking at your rally?

A kind of a deeply discomforting billionaire corrupt with interest before the federal government, spreading misinformation wherever he goes.

A man with a personality so bad, it causes people to sell their cars. I'm not going to lie.
I went to the Tesla place the other day and I was like, I just can't do it. No.
Just a wash in ketamine, you know? Well, it is. Allegedly.
Allegedly. And it is just sort of like a microcosm.
One of the many reasons race is close is because other billionaires are dumping money in this state, billionaires who would surely be quite happy to have Donald Trump protect their interests if Donald Trump were to become president. Elon.
Donald Trump posted because I would do what it could because he needs the federal government to do what he wants it to do. Like the corruption is on display.
He posted that when he was angry with Elon. When Elon wasn't kissing the ring he was like oh this guy would come to me and beg for stuff and now he's jumping up and down.
Trump said how high? No Elon said how high? Fuck shut up. I mean I don't want to be the skunk of the garden part here.
Like, he was a terrible speaker, and he's a weird individual. But he also has appeal to the exact voters we've talked about, who are the overly online young men, right? There are Elon fanboys all over the internet, and that is the upside of this for Trump.
Now, what we have to do... Do you think that there are...
I was wondering about this. Do you think there are Elon fanboys who are not already Trump fanboys? Yes.
100%. Really? 100%.
It is. This is Rogan world, right? It's where Elon lives.
And so he is a gateway drug to that. And now, there doesn't mean we have to sit by and take it.
There's arguments to be made here, here, right? Like, he is thoroughly corrupt. We, like, a pretty, you do a pretty easy calculation of the billions of dollars in tax cuts that Elon Musk would get from Donald Trump in a way to push back on it.
But they used him poorly here, and he performed even more poorly than that. But there is among, like, deep down in all the weird shit that Trump does, there is a strategic purpose to it, and this one does have one.
I just feel like, I just think about Ron DeSantis and how he put his eggs in the super online Elon basket. Yes.
And that did not work out well for him. And so, I don't know.
I just kind of feel like Elon Musk, the clips coming out of it aren't good. The reason you do this is because you want the clips, because the clips will go viral online.
But he looks underwhelming in the clips. Underwhelming, kind of off, kind of weird, a little like, oh, socially awkward.
Not strong. He's underwhelming.
Joe Rogan-ish, who is also like very problematic. You're right.
He's underwhelming and a weirdo. But he's also like his ego is very fragile and easily stroked.
And there's all this reporting that he was deeply hurt by the fact that the Biden administration never gave Tesla any love, never invited him to things, et cetera, et cetera. And Trump smells that.
He senses it. And he thinks, all right, I'm going to put this nerd on stage for three minutes, and he'll cut me another $100 million check.
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So after a few hours of warm-up speakers,

a few hours,

including J.D. Vance, Larry Trump,

some QAnon weirdos,

Trump took the stage and he

opened with an admittedly good line about starting the rally right where he left off last time he was in Butler. Let's listen.
And as I was saying... Oh, I love that.

I love that chart.

I love that. I love that chart.
I love that graph. Over the past eight years, those who want to stop us from achieving this future have slandered me, impeached me, indicted me, tried to throw me off the ballot.
And who knows, maybe even tried to kill me. We can't take another four years like this.
We won't have a country left. We're not going to have a country left.
You leave from the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, you go drive down to Washington, D.C., and you drive down and you end up getting murdered, you end up getting hurt, you get mugged. These people are crazy.
These people are crazy. You end up getting murdered, You just drive down to D.C.
You get murdered Trump loves an evocative Second person fake anecdote Completely made up Cory Capitore died I know They did a lot of memorializing What did Donald Trump do? Well, no, there was He did nothing, Johnny! He did nothing! He did nothing! That's the damn point! I was going to say, there was also Simone, you are leaving out the awkward hug of his fireman's uniform at the convention. I was touched.
There was a, wait, there was a, apparently there was a live painting of Corey Compator.

Someone was painting him on the stage earlier. Donald Trump could give a beautiful eulogy to this person who died

at the hands of somebody inflicting political violence.

If you get up there and lie about your political opponents

to attribute a murder to them,

you are dishonoring that person's memory. I don't care how many of Ave Maria's there are.
It's despicable. You're dishonoring the secret service agents who put their lives on the line for you.
Yes, it was a debacle, but they did save your life. And you're dishonoring those people and their service.
So it doesn't matter. I don't care what they do to pretend they give a shit about this guy who lost their lives they're dishonoring him every day they get out there and hint or imply that democrats are responsible and eric well eric trump didn't just hint or imply he was like they tried to kill my dad and who is they like i i mean if we want to be factually correct the first person that attempted to assassinate the former president was a registered republican yeah And the second person was a supporter that then turned his support because of Ukraine.

So they also might need to be specific. But also, this is like, J.D.
Vance was one of the most concerning comments for me from that rally

because he said Trump took a bullet for democracy.

And I just had to pause because like,

maybe we have different definitions of democracy,

but democracy doesn't require Donald Trump to get shot.

No.

That's not like that.

He didn't take a bullet for democracy.

And it's just,

it's just making a mockery of all of us every single time. But they say it so much and it's become so regular.

Some people just like gloss over it as though it's just part of the shit. The Trump campaign told the New York Times they envisioned this event as a show of strength and as a way to recapture the good political vibes that they felt a few days after he was shot at the RNC in Milwaukee.
You guys think this is recapturing those vibes? Because then his whole plan was ruined when Joe Biden stepped aside and Kamala Harris was the new nominee and then she gained in the polls and so now he wants to go back. Yeah, I think like, to Dan's point earlier, I don't think we should, I think there's, in a state that's going to be, it's a close election, he's got a lot of voters in Butler.
I think trying to create a pride of place in Butler, like you were there, you came here, this is where it happened. You saw it.
You're a part of it. You're a part of this incredible, important story.
Like, I don't think we should undercount that. Like, that could be important to people that were there.
Do I think it's persuasive to people outside of it? Probably not. But to people that are there, do I think it could really make sure they turn out, they turn their friends out? Like, absolutely.
But we're also, I think, in some ways fortunate that like, this moment, the idea that it could be about strength or kind of recapture that feeling, it would be far more potent if Donald Trump had the capacity to transmute the experience of political violence into empathy and a distaste for political violence when it's directed at people that are not him. But like...
A lot of me's in that clip that you heard. I think it's just sort of like Don Jr.'s therapist says to him all the time, you can't go to the hardware store for milk.
And that does. And Donald Trump is not capable of providing that kind of empathy.
Dan. So...
You got applause for Dan. I think they just shared a change in subject.
So, you know, Trump did get tens of thousands of people out to Butler in arguably the most important swing state where the race is basically tied. Started clapping, basically tied.
What can you tell us about how the Trump campaign sees Pennsylvania and their path to victory here? They are spending more money here than any other state because they believe, with good reason, is there someone who wants a local television station here? What was that? There are some ad makers in the audience. Because if they can win Pennsylvania, it makes Kamala Harris' path to 270 so much harder.
She now has to win two other states, Georgia or North Carolina, and one other one to get to 270. So that's why they spend the most money here.
They spend the most time here. And their strategy is pretty simple.
So it includes driving up turnout and margins in the rural parts of Pennsylvania between Allegheny County and Philadelphia. It is holding down Kamala Harris's margins, particularly in the suburbs in Bucks, Chester, Delaware, and Montgomery County, right here outside of Philadelphia.
And the last part is to cut into Kamala Harris's vote totals and vote share among black voters, particularly here in Philadelphia. In the exit polls, Biden won black voters 92 to 7.
And if you can just cut a few points from that in a state that Biden won by less than two points last time, you can get there. So this is right on the margins.
And we know that's our strategy because the Harris strategy for winning is the exact inverse of that. Hold down his margins to rural areas, jack up turn out here,

and try to hit those Biden numbers in Philly with black voters.

So she's got to figure out

how to hold his margins down here.

The Times had another great story Sunday morning

that a lot of Democrats and anti-Trump Republicans

have been eagerly awaiting for a long time now.

The headline,

Trump's speeches increasingly angry and rambling

reignite the question of age.

And now, Trump's speeches, increasingly angry and rambling, reignite the question of age. Yeah, a lot of resistance Democrats opening that in an incognito window.
So the piece goes on to analyze Trump's 2024 speeches compared to his earlier campaigns. And they got experts and former staffers to say that he has lost a step, that he's more forgetful, more rambling, longer tangents, all signs of cognitive decline.
What'd you guys think of the piece? And should this be in some way part of the closing argument for Kamala Harris and the Democrats? I just love the way they tried to apply data science to this story.

So,

well,

this is the hard thing about being a reporter.

It's like,

you can watch this man declining before your very eyes. You can watch him losing it at events.

And then they're like,

carry the one.

And you have to go to some AI,

like,

yeah,

it's like,

when you do the regression analysis,

he sounds like a fucking moron.

They, they, they literally reported that he's using 69% more profanity in speeches, which is some sort of element of decline, which in that case, God help us. He speaks at a fourth grade level.
That's what the story said. As opposed to Ron DeSantis, who spoke at an eighth grade level, and other candidates, as the New York Times analysis showed.
Honestly, it's 2024. Eighth grade, great.
Fourth grade, great. Yeah, honestly.
Second grade, fine. Whatever it takes.
Look, I think the reality, though, is that, unfortunately, this is, especially for, again, Trump supporters, it's baked in, right? Donald Trump could literally get on stage and go goobly gobbly moobly mash, fight, fight, fight. And they'd be like, he is brilliant.
Honestly, like, that is my president. And so it's baked in for that, but those people have a ceiling.
I think for some folks who are like, I don't really know about Donald Trump. I don't like some of the things he's doing, but I think the economy was really good.
You know, the Jamie Diamonds of the world who say he hasn't made a decision yet. Sorry, Jamie Diamond.
Folks like that, they'll read this coupled with his googly got answer on child care and say, well, maybe, maybe he's not all the way there. Maybe he doesn't have it.
Maybe this isn't right. Maybe he doesn't understand.
And now he's surrounding himself with some of the fanatics and maybe people will say, okay, maybe I don't want to vote for him. I don't know if I want to vote for her yet.
Maybe I will vote for her. Maybe I will just leave the top of the ticket blank.
So I think that this matters for that. But I do not think that the, I think sometimes the, the, the resistance dims put a little too much stock in the,

this is what she should be doing.

She should be leaning in on this.

People,

people care about her,

what she is going to do.

They know Donald Trump is like,

yes,

yes.

What she said.

And they,

I just don't think juxtaposing the like,

oh,

he's old and he can't talk.

Like just play the, Thank you. yes, yes, what she said.
And I just don't think juxtaposing the like,

oh, he's old and he can't talk.

Like, just play the clip.

Yeah.

And let the people deduce for themselves.

I think that's right.

I think the smartest thing Kamala Harris did in that debate

was invite people to watch the rallies.

She said go.

She said go?

Yeah, go to the rallies.

That's right.

But I think it's useful just in one way,

which is there is a voter who thinks, I don't love Donald Trump that much, but we survived four years of Donald Trump as president, and I think I liked the economy better then, so aren't we going to be able to just survive another four years? And I think the answer to that is, if you thought that Donald Trump was bad but okay, this Donald Trump is much worse. He has declined significantly since then, and he's a little bit crazier, and he's deteriorated, and he's surrounded with crazier people.
And so this is not the Donald Trump that you had back in 2016. I think that is one way it could be useful.
Is Dan about to throw cold water on this analysis? There are two different arguments here that are sort of interrelated. One is, and this is the one the Biden campaign was trying to do before the debate, which is Donald Trump changed after he lost election.
He got radicalized January 6th, and this is, he's now worse than he was before. And the other argument is he's really old, his brain is pickled, and he's melting before your eyes.
And I don't think, I agree with Simone, that should not be the main thrust of the message. Trump gives off vigorous energy.
He gives off crazy energy, right? He seems like an insane person. And so he doesn't seem, he doesn't...
He doesn't seem feeble. He seems nuts.
He seems nuts. Especially after Bubba.
And especially in clips, by the way, because you have to watch a good length of it to really get the sense that this man's losing it. Because if you just watch the clips on your local news, they are often sanitized.
They're trying to stitch together 91 minutes, I think, was the estimate of how long his rallies are now, of insanity into 30 to 60 seconds of something coherent you could put in the news. And so most people aren't seeing it.
It is just worth noting, and I know this isn't constructive, but it is fucking wild that we had a three-year conversation about Joe Biden's age and mental capacity, and we're just like, Donald Trump, who, at the end of his second term, will be older than Joe Biden is. We're just like, that's fine.
We're not going to worry about it. And Joe Biden was starting at a much higher baseline than Donald Trump here, right? So he wasn't fucking Cicero in 2016, but now he is incoherent.

Not Cicero. Not Cicero.

Something to tell undecided voters.

That is not a good campaign message.

We do not need to introduce Cicero.

If you have someone, a philosophy major perhaps,

that you're trying to persuade, maybe Cicero is right.

Perhaps an Elon fanboy philosophy major.

That's how you got that. Yeah, that's right's right talking about me we will be back with more news girls jr's new snack stash was made for munchie madness mix and match any three sides just 5.99 get, waffle fries, and jalapeno popper bites.
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This week, Donald Trump started several new conspiracies. And wouldn't you know it,

Laura Ingram was standing by to help spread the bad word. So now it's time for a segment we call

OK, Stop. Let's see how Fox News handled its duty to viewers during a natural disaster former director of speech writing for president obama and co-host of pod save america john favreau as a speech writer how impressed are you with my co-pilot analogy It was a little hard to follow.
How did I get here? Okay, Tom. I was going to say, it's a little hard to follow.
You got him. You went right to, how did I get here? Well, he was very proud of his intro.
He was talking about, like, Joe Biden was flying the plane, and then he passed out, and Kamala Harris took it, and now she's crashing it.

And he was like, wasn't that a good analogy?

And I'm like, no, weirdo.

Let's back up one step here.

Yeah, we should back up.

Let's do some context.

Last night, we were in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

We were going to do an OK Stop, and we surprised Lovett with scenes from his brief fleeting moment on Survivor.

Were you out? Are you out? Yeah, Simone. I'm out.
Are you out? Didn't it just start? He's been out for a while. It just started.
Were you the first? Oh. Oh, Simone.
Oh, this is better. Forget this.
Yeah. And so, because Payback's a bitch, I love it, put John's interview with Jesse Waters

as a surprise for Favreau,

which he didn't really,

he didn't know it was coming.

I did not know it was coming.

He was so stunned,

no one in the audience

got to know it was a surprise.

I will say,

the good news is,

I do last to the end

of this interview.

Honestly,

I wasn't sure

this was a good idea

because I thought

you did well in this.

This is going great.

I,

I'm sorry. Honestly, I wasn't sure this was a good idea because I thought you did well in this.
This is going great. I knew this would work.
All right. Do you know you're on Fox right now? No, I don't know.
I was just sitting around in our studio and suddenly I ended up here. Okay, stop.
I think we... John did drop acid at the DNC.
I did. I did.
It's midway through an ayahuasca journey. And we were in our studio at the convention, getting ready to record one of these 7,000 podcasts we recorded in the convention.
And someone bangs on the door. And who is it but Jesse Waters' producers trying to get...
They look exactly how you think they look. And they invited John to do it.
And despite the advice of many people on the stage,

myself primarily, he did it.

Dan was so opposed to it when they knocked on the door and started talking to us,

he immediately excused himself to go to the bathroom.

And then when he came back and I was like,

should I go do Jesse Waters' show they want me to do?

And he was like, no.

Muscled you up here against your will,

but now you're here, you have to answer some of our questions. Go for it.
Were you at the RNC in Milwaukee? That was pretty hot. I was at the RNC in Milwaukee.
A little cocky. A little cocky there.
Well, that's because we didn't really know who we were running against. Yeah, you guys had it wrapped up.
Yeah, we thought we were running against Biden. You were figuring out, like, you know, how big the electoral...
It is very interesting that he says we. We, yeah.
We. Says we.
Just completely, I know. Aren't they supposed to pretend not to do that? No.
Not Jesse. Not our Jesse.
Not our Jesse. Not our sweet Jesse.
Jesse Waters said, I am on the payroll. I like this part.
Let's finish this part. Landslide was going to be.
Everyone's getting a little nervous. Yeah, no one's nervous.
Everybody knows it's going to be close. Trump seems a little nervous.
I don't think you know anything about Trump. Okay, stop.
The way that is like two people who fucking hate each other, but trying to keep, like they're at a PTA meeting, or like they're at the kids' drop-offs, and the kids are there, but they want to fight. But they're like, ha-ha-ha.
I don't think you know anything about Trump. It's like, I don't know about much these days, but for the last nine years, the one thing I know about is Donald Trump.
Yeah. We're one rubber glove away from knowing everything about Trump.
For economically, Trump gets elected. I'm trying to figure out what that means.
I like it.

That goes mostly to rich people, to billionaires like Donald Trump.

Okay.

And, like, she doesn't want to do that.

I know.

You guys want to raise taxes.

You don't need another tax cut.

I don't need another tax cut.

I definitely need a tax cut.

Why don't we need a tax cut?

I definitely need a tax cut.

Oh, come on.

Hey, it's my money.

I earned it.

You look good.

I earned it.

You don't need another tax cut.

I'm not as good as you.

Not as good as you.

We agree to disagree.

Jon Favreau, my mother loves you.

Thanks for coming on. Telling your mom I said hi.
I told her to listen to Blood Save America. I will.
Blood to disagree. Jon Favreau, my mother loves you.
Thanks for coming on. Telling your mom I said hi.
I will. I think that's French.
It is. You know, sometimes we can play a clip and not just make fun of each other.
Sometimes we can enjoy the successes we have. Like getting on a show to begin with.
I just but it did just start it did start and and for some people someone has to go home first you don't want it to be you but you know it could be you when you sign the NDA so I will I would admit that I was wrong you did an excellent job you did an excellent job I would say the sexual tension could have been cut with a knife between you and Jesse Waters. Well, it was a little horny.
No, no, no. It's a little sexual.
No, no, no, no, no. Oh, you're saying it's not horny, Tommy? The implication at the end was clearly John saying, Jesse, I banged your mom.
Right, right, right. Say hi to your mother for me.
That was my takeaway. You don't have the accent.
You don't have the accent. That's as Boston as you've ever been I was going to say He did a little dig on your name being French Yeah he did And he got one in there at the end But it was good Anyway that's my friend Jesse Waters And that's okay stop Alright Let's get back to the news.
The Kamala Harris-Tim Walls media blitz has begun. After a few weeks of griping from reporters and some Democrats, the vice president and governor are in the middle of a jam-packed schedule of big interviews.
Walls was on Fox News Sunday, my favorite channel, with Shannon Bream this morning. He'll be on 60 Minutes, Jimmy Kimmel, and he's going to do a bunch of local press, Hispanic press, and a big podcast or two.
Harris will also be on 60 Minutes with Walls, but they're also both by themselves in the interview. And she'll also, she's going to be on The View, on Colbert, Howard Stern.
This is all this week, by the way. And she's going to do a Univision town hall on Thursday.
And as we mentioned last show, she also recorded an episode of the massively popular Call Her Daddy podcast with Alex Cooper, where they discussed reproductive rights and other women's issues. Here is a clip.
I do want to clarify something. In the debate, former President Trump claimed that some states are executing babies after birth.
Can you just clarify? That is not happening anywhere in the United States. It is not happening and it's a lie lie.
Just it's a bold faced lie that he is suggesting that can you imagine? Can you imagine? He's suggesting that women in their ninth month of pregnancy are electing to have an abortion. Are you kidding? That is so outrageously inaccurate and it's so insulting to suggest that that would be happening and that women would be doing that.
It's not happening anywhere. This guy is full of lies.
I mean, I just have to be very candid with you. The idea that someone is not only so careless and irresponsible and reckless, but out and out lies to create fear and division in our country and thinks he should be president of the United States standing behind the seal of the president of the United States,

using the microphone that comes with that,

and using that voice and those words

in such an irresponsible, and that's mild, way.

And this is why this election matters. She was good.
It was a good podcast. It was a really good interview.
Really good interview. Simone, you were a senior advisor to the VP in the White House.
So she started off the first term with a few rough interviews. She got a lot better.
She now seems pretty comfortable. Can you talk about how she sees interviews, how she prepares, and what you think the strategy is behind this latest media blitz? I mean, I would argue that what we are seeing now is the product of decisions that the vice president made mid through the end of her first year in the vice presidency.
There was a time where she wasn't doing many interviews within the first year. And I remember one day we were in our office and, you know, we're giving the news.
And, you know, I believe in giving all the news, even the bad news. I just hold that back to the end.
You know, we don't want you getting that one on the email. You don't make it in a sandwich? No, I just, you know, I say the good parts, and I'm like, and if I may, ma'am.
And then I grab my folder. But, you know, there were particularly this, we don't see the vice president.
There are people who are online and even in real life saying, well, I don't really know what she does. Well, that's the function of the vice presidency first.
But also, she was quite very active. But we made the case, you know, she's

just asked, you know, what our thoughts were and the analysis of it all. And we're like, look,

you were doing a lot, but you have to, we have to go the extra mile and do all the things,

go to places that the people read, watch, and listen to. So yes, the local press with the

nationals, we need to do some sit downs with the columnists because, you know, they think they know

all. And if you're not talking to them, they're mean, but we still have to talk to them.
And so

she herself decided that she wanted to do more. She had more off the records with reporters.
She did a number of, now she does an end-of-the-year interview every year, a bunch of them. That's something that she herself decided she wanted to do.
And so the way she approaches the interview is she wants to come with, how can I, if abortion is a thing we're going to talk about, how can I make this as plainly relatable as possible?

She doesn't want a bunch of random facts and figures.

When we used to travel with her, she would ask for,

when we were on the campaign trail in 2020,

she would ask for like three figures about housing, gas,

and there was one other thing.

And it's everywhere we went.

She wants these three figures for this specific place.

And it's like, dang, why?

I mean, we were in France once doing a press conference at the end of this long trip. And she's like, well, what is the price of gas? And I'm like, well, man, I drive an SUV, so you want the average price? She was like, I don't see it in the documents.
And I'm like, and I'm like, people ain't go, no, the French don't care about the price of gas. But you know what? The people who will watch the clips at home in America, they do.
And that's what she was thinking about. And so I think, frankly, she is excellent in an interview.
She wants to break it down and make it relatable. But sometimes I think the right has taken, my conservative friends will take some of the clips and they want to make fun of the relatability that she herself she herself has been intentional about and i believe what we've been seeing now is in fact that they have misread the room everything from the coconuts to the see what can be unburdened by what has been that resonates with people because they relate like they they feel that viscerally um so i think the strategy that the campaign has employed here is smart i have been critical in the last three weeks, I would argue, because I feel like that the Democratic Party writ large, but specifically the Harris-Walls campaign, not the vice president herself, but some of the people that work up in there, were kind of taking the base vote for granted a little bit.
They thought that they could just maybe earn media their way to the base vote or just, you know, they did that already. They had record spending early.
So now they need to pivot and get some of these moderate Republicans on and so forth. And I think you have to do both.
It's not an either or. And these series of interviews that she has set up to me says that in addition to some of the things that they're doing online and some of the advices that they've done, that they understand that they still have to persuade base voters, i.e.
there are people who, believe it or not, think that their vote doesn't matter. There are people out there who have maybe voted in the past who say, I just don't know if my vote is going to make a difference.
And she is going out there talking about the issues, but also from the candidate's own mouth saying, your vote can make a difference. It made me the first woman, the first woman of color, the first black woman vice president, and your vote can make a difference for all these things in your life.
So I think it's smart. Now, some of the media colleagues, they don't like that.
They wrote about it today. They said, oh, why is she? Literally, someone wrote.
Oh, oh. They wrote it.
They wrote it. It's coming.
It's coming. So all of these scheduled interviews, they were all out today.

At least the news that she was going to do them all was all out today.

And Politico saw all of these scheduled interviews.

And the playbook wrote the following.

Kamala Harris is still largely avoiding the media.

The VP is set for a series of interviews that likely won't press her on tough issues, even as voters want more specifics. Lovett, what do you think? We were on a plane to Philly here.
The plane was a little delayed and we were sitting there for a while and there were some have we are we have made the point that we can't just spend all our time arguing about what washington media is saying that that we have to get out there that's not the most important thing but sometimes it doesn't have to be the most important thing to be something you really want to do for a second and we've earned it look she just came off an interview with the National Association of Black Journalists. Tim Walls was on Fox News Sunday today.
As Playbook publishes this, clips are coming out of Kamala Harris being asked difficult questions about Israel and Gaza by 60 Minutes. You know, those pop culture softies.
She's on 60 Minutes, the nation's premier tough interview show, a show so famous for its tough interviews that they don't have music. They have a ticking stopwatch.
She's doing Univision. She's doing a bunch of local press.
And what bothers me, in addition to doing The Late Show and Howard Stern, she's doing ostensibly exactly what you would think a political journalist would be excited to see a presidential candidate do, which is talk to all kinds of journalists of all types to try to reach as many people as possible facing difficult questions, personal questions, policy questions, the works. And instead they write that.
And look, we can file this away. It's a problem for another day.
In a good relationship, when someone takes out the garbage, their partner says, thank you. I appreciate that you do these wonderful things for us.
In a bad relationship, when someone takes out the garbage, the partner says, fucking finally. When someone is doing the thing you have urged them to do, even if the urging was not totally fair, you should be glad they're doing it.
You should celebrate it. Because presumably, I like that journalists advocate for journalism.
I like that they're out there wanting Kamala Harris to do more interviews. We've said Kamala Harris should do more interviews.
But when someone is doing the thing in a democracy that you believe is important to a democracy, you don't have to go out of your way to kick them in the nats. It's stupid.
It's stupid. And it's like political journalism is less and less relevant.

You have to go around it more and more to reach actual people.

And this is like a little campaign for their own irrelevancy.

It's like they don't want the credibility.

They don't want to be part of the conversation.

It's like she's doing democracy.

You want to do democracy.

There's another candidate who'd like to destroy it.

He backed out of the same 60 Minutes interview.

Like, maybe that's something worth focusing on.

Yeah.

I frankly think this is indicative of the coverage of the way that the political media covered her prior to her becoming, locking down the nomination and becoming the top of the ticket.

And I had long since believed, I said, you know, they are going to, for lack of a better term, they're going to take a turn. Like, what is this? They need more specifics when every interview she's telling you.
You can say you don't like the specifics that she's giving. You can be critical about the plan that she's put forward, but the idea that there is no plan is just, it's unserious, especially when the man on the other side seems to not know what a tariff is and doesn't understand child care.
Yeah. And he, he, he, he, he spent part of his rally in Wisconsin today demanding an apology from Leslie Stahl in 60 Minutes and said, once he gets the apology, he'll go back and do the interview.
For what? The apology is from 2020, right? Leslie Stahl knows what Leslie Stahl did. I'm sure that will lead Playbook tomorrow.
But I do think they confuse a substantive interview with an adversarial interview. Yes.
And if you listen to the interview she did with Alex Cooper on Call Her Daddy, it was extremely substantive. She got into a lot of details about policy.
Now

did Alex try to ask her a bunch of

gotcha questions? No, but she also wasn't

like, what's your favorite color?

Or about the 538 polling average.

It wasn't horse race. Here's the thing.

It's not substantive versus adversarial.

It's us versus someone else because it

drives the Beltway media

fucking bananas that someone like Alex Cooper

has a platform exponentially larger than they do, listened to by more people, and she can have the interview and not them. They are reckoning with declining relevance and decaying platforms in this media environment.
But by the way, that's not a good thing. That's the thing that's frustrating.
We live in the wreckage of local news going away political journalism not reaching enough

people people casting about for information and landing on stuff that's only sometimes true like

that is a bad thing like we want i want those institutions to succeed i want them to do the

kind of coverage that like people go to because they want news they can trust from the middle of

an after in the wake of a storm of people grabbing onto bullshit and lies like we need institutions

that people trust and like this is a very small ultimately not important example of it but like

I don't know. in the wake of a storm of people grabbing onto bullshit and lies.
We need institutions that people trust. And this is a very small, ultimately not important example of it.
But I want these institutions to do the kind of journalism that people can rely on and to be angry that she's only doing 60 Minutes Univision, the National Association of Black Journalists, and Fox News Sunday. I think it's pretty fucking ridiculous.
Yeah, yeah. Dan, in these final weeks, how do you think about balancing media appearances that introduce the VP to people, interviews that focus on specific topics, more traditional interviews like 60 Minutes, and then how do you weigh all that against the need to continue to do rallies? Like, she's obviously, she's got a lot of voters to reach, and she's got a lot of messages to get out there, and there's only four weeks left.
That's exhausting when you say there are only four weeks left. I know.
Towards the end of my time in the White House as Barack Obama's communications director, I kind of realized that much of my job was kind of pointless. And that, just that basically, the conclusion of that so much time was spent with politicians talking to DC media, DC media writing about it, us responding to it, it was all a giant circle jerk.
Because none of that was reaching real voters. The people who actually, it was just political junkies talking to each other through the pages of Politico, the New York Times, the Washington Post.
That's what it was. And the media environment has changed even more dramatically since then because of changes in the internet and social media.
Now the biggest gap in politics is not between the right and the left. It's between the small minority of Americans who actively seek out political news and everyone else who almost never encounter it.
Right now, if you want to know what's happening in politics, you have to seek it out. You have to subscribe to Pod Save America, read Playbook, read the New York Times, watch MSNBC.
And most people don't do that. And it's no longer delivered to them in their Facebook feed or their Twitter feed or anywhere else.
And so Kamala Harris has a gigantic challenge in this election. It is a challenge much harder than any candidate has ever had.
And she's having to do it on a compressed timeline. And the way I think you do that is to sort of an adopt approach I like to call sort of everything, everywhere, all at once.
She has to be all over the press, right? You have to do 60 Minutes, and you have to call her daddy. You have to do Univision Town Hall and Simone Show, right? You've got to do Pod Save America and all the Smoke podcasts.
You have to do it all because you have to recognize that the voters she needs, the ones she needs to persuade, and most of them aren't. When we say persuadable voters, we have in our mind people who are just sitting there with stacks of white papers on either side of their dining room table trying to side between Trump and Kamala Harris.
And that's not what it is. It's most people deciding between voting for someone and sitting on the couch.
And the way you reach them is by going to where they are, right? It's why you do call her daddy, right? Yes, you can see this was in playbook. Like, well, she's already doing so well with young women, so why would she go and call her daddy? It's like, what the fuck do you guys know about politics? Because you know what, who does not have a super high turnout rate? Voters under 30.
And the other thing is, is you think about your interviews because no individual interview is worth the time of a presidential nominee. What it is, is you have the interview and then it has to travel outside of that, right? What is people, what is not understood by these dinosaurs in DC about the media is that there are the people who listen to Alex Cooper on Spotify or their podcast app or whatever else, but those clips travel on TikTok all the time.
Even if you don't listen to that podcast, you will see clips of Kamala Harris talking to Alex Cooper. The same thing, and Trump is doing this and he's doing it quite well, right? He is all the time.
We're like, where is he? He's not doing, he's skipping 60 Minutes, but what he's doing is he's doing Theo Vaughn's podcast, Sean Ryan's podcast. He's doing stuff with TikTokers like Aiden Ross, and he's out there, and we have to have our version of that.
And so you gotta do it all. You gotta do Univision, you gotta do 60 Minutes, and you gotta do this stuff, and you just have to not give a shit about what Politico and the DC media say about it.
Yeah. So, Tommy, CNN had a report on Sunday morning that Harris is contemplating more ways to visibly break with the Biden presidency.
Didn't really specify any areas where that might happen. But do you think that's smart? Do you think it's feasible? I think it's essential.
I mean, I think this isn't really a criticism of Biden as much as the political reality when you look everywhere in the world and you see people who are pissed off about the pandemic, about COVID, the pandemic is COVID, about energy prices, inflation, a whole range of things, and they're punishing incumbent parties of all stripes. And so I think Kamala Harris doesn't want to be seen as running for a second Biden term.
I think there's also, you know, so part of the way you make a break is tonal. Joe Biden was very focused on, frustratingly so, candidly, on telling people about the things he had done and trying to get credit for accomplishments.
Whereas if you watch a Kamala Harris event, she's talking about understanding that people are still frustrated, that they are feeling the pinch from inflation, but here are the things that I will do to help you. And I think that tonal difference has been really important.
Part of, though, any effort to sort of create some distance is going to involve the Biden White House playing ball as well. And that story you mentioned, the CNN story, talked about how some of Kamala Harris's aides were a little bit frustrated that he went out and talked to the press corps after the Liz Cheney endorsement and sort of started singing Dick Cheney's praises because that didn't land well in a lot of progressive circles.
There was also an incident where President Biden went to the White House briefing room for the first time in his first term. It's funny to refer to it as an incident.
President Biden went to the briefing room for the first time, and he ended up speaking at the same time as Kamala Harris's event. I think they felt like it stepped on that a bit.
The area where I think it's going to be really hard is on policy. Because I know like a lot of progressives want Kamala Harris to articulate a different position on Gaza, for example.
And we're recording this, you know, a day before the one-year anniversary of the October 7th Hamas attack on Israel, which is just a horrific day for everyone in Israel. It's been a horrific year for Jews in America and around the world who are fearing the rise of anti-Semitism, for Palestinians in Gaza, obviously, for Arab and Muslim Americans who just want the carnage to end for people with connections to Lebanon now.
But the challenge for Kamala Harris is she you know, she's going to be in the Situation Room meetings, but Joe Biden is the president and he is going to make the call. And there's one president at a time.
And that is a sacrosanct thing that you can't change. And Joe Biden has very strong views on this.
So it's going to be a challenge to create that space. I think a lot of it is going to be rhetorical, but I do think it's important for her to try.
Can I just say that I don't necessarily agree. I think her tone has been different, but different because that is authentic to her.
And I think that it has really been important for her to be authentic to herself. And as y'all know, when you're the vice president, your name is on the door, but it's number two on the door.
OK. And nobody's asking you what you think until you're in the room.
And the president might ask and y'all can have a conversation. But at the end of the day, it is the president's decision.
But there is no one more loyal, more proud to serve with Joe Biden than Vice President Kamala Harris. And I read all the stories about how the aides want this and the aides want that.
I can tell you with visceral and aggressive uncertainty, if the time comes and people are like, the only way you'll get it is if you, you know, step on Joe Biden's back, stab him in the back and step up, she will not do that. But I don't think that that is in fact necessary.
To be very clear, she is the nominee right now because Joe Biden had her back when there are many other people that want to walk around right about now outside, talk about how, yeah, she was always our person. They were endorsing an open primary.
So an open process at an open convention. So I would just say what is, I think the campaign aides, instead of whining about what the president is doing, because he is still the president, okay? Okay? maybe his second biggest defender is me because i just you know instead of whining about what the president is doing maybe they should do the work of reminding people that it's been 30 years since the sitting vice president of the united states has actually run for been the nominee the last person was al gore how about you ask out so did somebody ask bill clinton how he would have felt if al gore was out here just will Willie YOLOing it? Well, I think that did actually happen.
Bill Clinton told us. And how the hell did that work out for Al Gore? Not so good.
My only point is that she has, I think, differentiated herself. The aides want her to throw Joe Biden under the bus.
She's not going to do it. And frankly, the people who are, who are seeding the things out there in the press, it is, it is showing that they do not know her that well, because that is not something that is going to move her.
It's actually just going to piss her off. You're right.
I mean, she's a loyal person. She's a good person.
I would never recommend she throw Joe Biden under the bus, but I think Joe Biden should know, or I think he does know, that his legacy depends on her winning. And whatever it takes for her to win, he should do, she should do.
And that will be based on data and polling and not, you know, sort of personal cruelty or some petty bullshit from staffers, which you had to deal with more than we did, you know, like, so you understand this. But, you know.
Shout out to Ben LeBolt. He is a lovely person.
I love Ben LeBolt. Ben's like one of our closest friends.
Dan. I was going to say, I don't know that she has to separate herself on policy because I don't think that's necessarily credible.
I'm not sure it's possible. It is toned.
It's really funny. The folks at Blueprint who do, they're a polling organization.
They're more moderate leading, but they have been arguing that swing voters want her to separate herself from Biden. But the most popular testing message they did was the message, I'm not Joe Biden, and then just restated the positions on health care and prescription drugs.
And the takeaway from that is not that Joe Biden is less popular than Kamala Harris, but the point here is that the best framework for this election is future versus past. It's not present versus recent past.
And so the extent that she is charting a path forward and not re-litigating the Biden administration is where she's going to be strongest. Yeah, I think a number of things can be true here, which is she is clearly, and you could tell this when she was asked the question in the first sit-down interview she did with CNN.
She clearly loves Joe Biden and feels loyal to Joe Biden. And I thought that that answer, it was admirable that she did not take that opportunity to throw Joe Biden under the bus, even if it might have been more politically advantageous to do so at that time.
It's just like you could tell that's what she believes. And I think if you're running for office, just say what you believe, right? That's always a good rule of thumb.
It's also true that joe biden is very unpopular right and that i think is unfair i think we would all guess that that's unfair that he's unpopular yeah he's pretty unpopular yes no i think people think he's too he i think a lot of people thought he was too old to be president but is the president himself unpopular yes i think that i mean he's more popular now that he's not running for re-election no but let's be honest about this to me it's less about i i agree with you actually i think i agree with john the moment she defended Joe Biden, I think that's Yes. I think that, I mean, he's more popular now that he's not running for reelection.
No, but let's be honest about this. To me, it's less about, I agree with you actually.
I think I agree with John. The moment she defended Joe Biden, I think that's great.
I think we do not want to debate about how is Kamala Harris dissing herself from Joe Biden enough. I think she's doing it on tone.
She should keep doing it on tone. I think specifically on Israel and Gaza, it is important for her to say there's only one president at a time to signal that she is not Joe Biden while she stands with Israel and wants a two state solution.
But I do think what we're also talking about here is how can Joe Biden be the most helpful? And I think it's not necessarily going on The View or going to the briefing room. It's not.
It might be Joe Biden saying, the most helpful thing I can do is stand back and make sure that the contrast is not between the present and the future, but between the future and the Trump past, as Dan was saying. And that is less about what Kamala does, actually.
It's more about Joe Biden understanding what the most important thing is for his legacy, which is Kamala winning. Yeah, I mean, like, there's what should be true and there's what is true.
What should be true is that Joe Biden should be popular because he pulled us out of a pandemic and a recession and we have the strongest economy and fastest recovery than we've had, right? And then he, like, had the best legislative accomplishments, like, you know, biggest climate bill in history. Like, yeah, that's what should be true.
But it's not because we went through a pandemic and people are cranky. And are his approval ratings with, you know, engaged Democrats really good? Yeah.
But like the people that we were all talking about tonight who don't pay a lot of attention, it's not right. And so like then the question is, all right, we have this new nominee, what's the opportunity for her? And you're right, I don't think you can separate on policy that much because she was there for all of it.
And by the way, a lot of the policy itself, pretty popular, right? And by the way, if there was a separation on policy, somebody would have challenged Joe Biden on an issue other than his age. The reason there was no other nominees is because Joe Biden was a great president.
And age was not a factor in his governing. He did an extraordinary job.
And that didn't change when he stepped aside. Yeah.
I agree with you. But I do think it is how you present yourself and his past, future, right? I even think in the debate when she said, I'm not Joe Biden, it works for people.
It's also sort of funny. It's like, obviously she's not Joe Biden.
Yeah, no shit. There's a lot of people she's not.
When you think about it. I do think, look, the backdrop of the CNN story, the Politico stories, all these Democrats, a lot of aides talking on background, all this kind of stuff.
Everyone is nervous. And they are nervous because, we are nervous because the race is super close.
And some people are worried about complacency and caution from the Harris-Walls campaign. And that's just, it's what happens every campaign.
But we are in a race against Donald Trump, four weeks left. It's been an unconventional campaign, to say the least.
And things are extremely close. I think there was some hope that some people had that like, okay, Kamala Harris, new nominee, now she'll be up five or six and that'll be that.
Not

the case. It's going to be a dogfight right until

the end. This isn't the good place.

This is the bad place.

You guys think any of this is warranted?

You have similar worries? Simone, how

are you feeling? Yeah, I feel

look, I feel like

I just want to bold and underline

what Dan said. This idea that when people

say, when we say undecided

voter, I think an image pops into somebody

Thank you. look, I feel like I just want to bold and underline what Dan said.
This idea that when people say, when we say undecided voter, I think an image pops into somebody's head. A suburban white lady, actually.
It's what pops into lots of heads, okay? Maybe a moderate white man, a rural, working class union guy, okay? Even though the black and brown people are in rural and are union as well. And black women live in the suburbs.
Montgomery County, actually, as well. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
It's where our special was, Black Women in America. So I do think that there are, people have to rethink what they think about undecideds because there are undecided base voters who are like, I don't know if my vote matters or I don't know if I'm going to vote for her.
Not that I'm voting for Trump, but I might stay home or I might leave the top of the ticket blank. And because of that, I do think that people have to walk and chew gum at the same time.
Yes, there has to be appeals to moderate Republicans, continue to roll out the endorsement of people like Liz Cheney and former Senator Jeff Flake. And I do think that that matters.
But you cannot do that at the expense of your base because Kamala Harris coalition includes base voters. She is not the next president of the United States without them.
And I think she understands that, but I think pieces of the Democratic Party apparatus sometimes forget that. So that's what makes me anxious.
And when people say, oh, I'm undecided, some folks out there want to shame these voters. And I understand, but I come from, you know, campaigns.
And in campaigns, we just, we understand where the people are. We need to drag them to where we need them to be.
And then we shame them after election day. That's it.
That's great. We'll leave it there.
Leave it there. Um, all right, before we get to our interview with Senator Bob Casey, we got something we want to update you on.
Uh, vote save America's build your own ballot tool is back. You might be asking what's build your own ballot tool.
So it lets you fill out your specific practice ballot in just a few clicks. It's got digestible candidate bios and ballot measure explainers.
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So there we go.

When we come back, your senator, Bob Casey. This message has been paid for by Vote Save America.
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Please welcome to the stage,

Senator Bob Casey.

Hey, Dan. Senator, thank you for joining us.

Yeah, great to be here.

Good thing the Phillies won.

I saw some people over there who clearly came directly from the Phillies game. Right there.
All right, Senator, you come from a political family in this state. You have a long legacy.
You've been around politics your entire life. You've run for office.
Is this your eighth time running, I think? Something like that. Something like that.
You've seen everything there is to see. But I think this election here against Dave McCormick is unique.
Please tell me what it's like to run for Pennsylvania senator against a dude from Connecticut. Dan, it's never happened before.
Dan, by the way, before I do come bearing gifts, I want to make sure that you have an official Yangling koozie.

You can just read the rest of it,

but that's for you, Dan.

That's free.

I take it that Mr. Billionaire from Connecticut

did not know how to pronounce Pennsylvania's premier beer.

Right.

He got a little wrong.

You too can have that koozie. It costs about $10.
If you go to pod 51041 you can get one. Dan, look, this is a unique race in lots of ways.
Not simply because he lied to the people of our state about where he lives. He told them over and over and over again all throughout 2022, all throughout 2023, even before he was a candidate, that he lived in Pennsylvania, said it over and over again.
Then on August, not that I remember, but August the 14th of 2023, the Associated Press wrote a story that said, actually, he lives in Connecticut. And they had evidence to prove that.
So that's become a major issue, because if you haven't been here, he didn't vote in the state for 15 years. If you haven't been here, you're not going to understand the state, and you should not lie to the people that you seek to represent.
I think that's a pretty low bar. And it's not just that he lives in Connecticut now.
He's also been a little fuzzy, should we say, about the family farm he grew up on and a bunch of other things, right? Yeah. He said the New York Times wrote this story where the New York Times recounted what he was saying when he was a candidate for the Senate in 2022.
He said at one point something to the effect that he came from nothing. He had nothing.
His father was a university president. And when you literally, it was called Bloomsburg College.
Then now it's Bloomsburg University. When you're president of a college or university, you usually get a house.
They got a house, right? So he had a pretty good upbringing. But then later, he even went further and said, because his family owned a farm and he spent some time on it, he actually said at one point, I'm a farmer, which is, I mean, that's really interesting the way he brought that into the conversation.
But Dan, here's one, Dan, I think this is what sets it apart from any race in the country. Obviously, my good friend John Tester and Sherrod Brown, we were all elected together.
Montana, go ahead. They're just remarkably capable public officials and decent people in really tough races.
John has the toughest race in the country. Share it a second.
Unfortunately for me, I'm third. Congrats.
But the unique feature about our race, which I think sets it apart from any other, is there's a singular super PAC that's funded by billionaires, the leaders of which are all out-of-state billionaires, that we thought would grow to 20 or 30, now it's close to 50, and it might grow to 60 or 70 million. But that super PAC is supporting him morning, noon, and night, pounding the hell out of me, and that sets it apart from any other Senate race in the country it'll be we believe the largest individual super PAC uh ever in in American politics for one candidate so uh if you can just go to bobcasey.com tonight but I think that's the unique feature of the race I think it's worth just like honing in on that because in addition to just simply polluting the airwaves during Phillies and Eagles games, it's worth just noting, yes, these guys are friends with these rich billionaire hedge fund guys.
They're probably part of the same country club or yacht club or whatever else with Dave McCormick. But they have a real interest in electing someone like Dave McCormick and defeating someone like you.
So maybe talk a little bit about that. I'd say bingo.
Look, they know that when there was a tax bill in 2017, remember what happened, Republicans rammed through a tax bill. They did it through reconciliation, that narrow process that allows you to vote, get 51 votes.
They got their 51 votes. And that bill alone jacked up the debt by $2 trillion, mostly because they gave a huge cut in the corporate rate, the likes of which I'm not sure we've ever seen, and the billionaires and the hundreds of millionaire guys got a big tax break.
When that happened, they knew that they were going to have to come back to it in 2025. McCormick's already committed to voting for a similar version of that, which will jack up the debt, not by two trillion, not by three trillion, but by most estimates, more than four trillion dollars.
So they know he's going to vote for it and they know I'm going to vote against it. That's in their interest to support him because he's going to support them on the tax bill.
And they also, a lot of these billionaires also have a lot to say about how we have to, you know, limit spending for Medicare and Social Security and Medicaid. You had your first debate earlier this week.
Was that an enjoyable experience, would you say? I wouldn't go that far. One of the big issues in that debate, and it's something that's come up in the campaign repeatedly, is fracking.
McCormick has repeatedly tried to portray you as someone who is anti-fracking.

Can you set the record straight on your position on fracking?

I've always supported it. And the key to that, I think that the key to that

issue in terms of what happens in the state is who is the governor? And we know that Josh

Shapiro is someone who supported gas extraction. He's also someone...
Go ahead and clap for Josh. Governor Shapiro is also someone who will enforce the law because that's where most of the regulation occurs at the state level.
It matters who the governor is to enforce the environmental laws. We've got a state constitutional provision.
It's Article I, Section 27 of our state's constitution. The people have a right to clean air, pure water, and to the preservation of the historic, scenic, and natural values, aesthetics of the environment.
So because of that constitutional mandate, it's up to the governor and those who do the oversight of this process of extracting natural gas to enforce those laws. So we have a lot of listeners, maybe here in Pennsylvania, but also around the country who want to support your campaign, who are very concerned about climate change.
And they hear someone say that they're here, that you support fracking, and maybe they don't understand the role fracking plays in the economy here in Pennsylvania. But maybe you could talk a little, for those voters, you could talk a little bit more about your broader efforts to address climate change and maybe making sure that we keep our water and air as clean as possible.
Yeah, I think one of the most important moments in the recent history of the Senate, at least on our side, was when we passed the Inflation Reduction Act, which allowed us, which allowed us, and by the way, with only Democratic votes, not a single Republican supported, that allowed us to say by the time that law passed in 2022, I guess August of 22, that we could achieve 40 by 30, a 40% reduction in emissions by 2030, solely because of that law, the most important climate change legislation in human history, if not American history. but there's more we have to do.
20 by 30 is substantial progress, but there's more we're going to have to do to reduce emissions. Dave McCormick recently released a very glossy ad trying to portray himself as a moderate on abortion and calling you an extremist on abortion.
Because you may be, I mean, we have both equal part boos and laughs in the audience on that. But I'm sure they've seen that ad 100 million times in the last few weeks.
Maybe you can explain what the differences are between you and McCormick on abortion and why electing you in a Democratic Senate matters so much for reproductive freedom. Yeah, here's the moment.
It's 2022. And remember, the Dobbs decision was leaked.
Remember that. So we had a sense of it.
And then, of course, the final decision came out in June of 22. Right around that time, my opponent was a candidate for the United States Senate.
And he was running in that primary, and he was trying to run to the right of dr ross who ultimately won the primary and in a in a debate a debate among republican candidates the the debate moderator the same moderator that we had the other night in harrisburg dennis owens said what exceptions would you support uh if in an abortion ban or or some words to that effect? And my opponent said, the rare instance of life of the mother, and he stopped. And then he never corrected the record on that, and then when he started running for the Senate, he started saying, oh no, no, I forgot.
I forgot there are two other exceptions that I should have had in there. So that's one proof point.
But the second proof point is basic. It's will you vote to restore the protections of Roe v.
Wade or not? I will and have. He won't.
That's the difference. And he, we would assume, vote for a federal abortion ban if that's what the MAGA Republicans and Trump wanted, right? He's denying that.
He's denying that. He's a man who also lies about where he lives, so I'm not sure I'd take that one to the bank, right? That's a good line, actually.
It's all yours. Some folks in the audience or listening to this episode may not know this, but you love political maps.
Well, actually only one map. One map, yes.
You love the political map. Some people, and by some people I largely mean me, they call you the Steve Kornacki of the Senate.
In that vein, I think we might have a map coming out here. Oh, wow.
There it is. Tommy, thanks so much for your help with that.
So on election night, this is the state that it's going to decide the presidency, the White House, the Senate and everything else. Cheering your battleground state status.
I appreciate that. And so we're going to be watching the vote totals in Pennsylvania very carefully.
So maybe you could walk us through what you're going to be looking for on election night. Yeah.
This is, this was just a... It'll be hard for some of you people to see, so we'll try to explain what the counties are.
Yeah, we'll talk about them. But Dan, this was retrieved from the Smithsonian because, as you can see, it's from 2020.
And there's a lot of scribbling on here. I just want to explain what it is.
Like, for example, in Potter County, before election night, I wrote down minus 46. That's not good.
These are counties we won't win. But this was what President Obama lost Potter County by 46, and then what Secretary Clinton lost it by, and then we left a space,

and all night long I was filling in. So for example, that's one example.
Let's go to some good news, like in Chester County. How many of you from here in Chester County? This was a Republican county, the last of the four to go Democratic.
President Obama actually lost it slightly by 0.2%.

Secretary Clinton won it by 9 points. President Biden won it by 17.
So, but here, do you want me to just walk through what I hope? Go for it. Let me see.
Here's what I have to do to win, and here's what Kamala Harris has to do. By the way, she's going to win this race.
Right? This is the southeast, but it's really the Philadelphia television market, right? So it's eight counties where we are right here. We're here in Philly.
By the way, it's great to be at the Met. This is a great place.
And it used to be a house of worship, so it's sacred. So it's sacred ground we're on.
But these eight counties, this media market, President Biden won that media market by plus 27, right? He lost every other media market in the state, and he won the state by one, right? So we've got to try to get that margin out of there. But also, in Pittsburgh, this is Allegheny County, right? But in this media market, which is 22, this is 41% of the vote.
This is 22% of the vote. If Kamala Harris and I are close to breaking even for this region, it'll be a good night.
And what's the specific county that you'll be looking for that you think maybe is a bellwether of what's happening in the state? This is hazardous. Anybody from Bucks County out there? It's not precisely, but you can see it wasn't a good indicator of President Obama's margin because it's plus one and he won the state by five.
Secretary Clinton won it by one, but she was minus one for the state. President Biden won bucks by four, won the state by one.
So it's not precise, but that's a pretty good barometer there. But the two counties that most people paid attention to last time were flip counties, Obama, and then that other guy in 16, and then President Biden.
Northampton and Erie, right? So Erie went from minus two to plus one. Northampton went from minus four to plus point seven.
So those two counties are indicative, but look, a lot is going to come down to the Southeast. These, these eight counties.
And what about Lackawanna County where Scranton is? which is Casey country right yep Lackawanna County was plus 8 for

for Lackawanna County where Scranton is. Which is Casey country, right?

Yep.

Lackawanna County was plus eight for President Biden.

We got to achieve a number close to that for sure

because this region of the state, the Northeast,

used to have a much bigger blue in Luzerne County,

but now Lackawanna and Monroe pretty much are the blue counties

in this part of the state. And how are you feeling about Center County is State College, right? Right.
And how are you feeling about Center County this year? I think we're going to win Center County. Okay.
Dan, this is where Altoona is, where you were in a bowling alley in 2008, I think. Yes.
I was going to ask you, Senator Casey, well, one people should know that Senator Casey very bravely endorsed President Obama at a very dark time in our campaign. And so for anyone who ever worked for President Obama, we are eternally loyal to Bob Casey.
Even though the bowling didn't go well. Yes.
And so Senator Casey and I, 15 years ago now, were on a bus together with your children,

and we had President Obama campaigning across Pennsylvania,

and we stopped at a bowling alley.

And I would just say that Senator Casey and President Obama bowled

in front of the national press together.

And Senator Casey, good bowler.

Barack Obama, not a good bowler.

I would say... But I've never met a more confident bad bowler.
Barack Obama, not a good bowler. I would say...

But I've never met a more confident bad bowler in my life.

I said, we were getting off the bus,

and President Obama just mentioned in passing,

he goes, I haven't bowled since I was 19.

And I said, sir, you know you don't have to actually bow.

We could just shake hands.

And he's, no, I got this.

He was practicing. He did not get it.
I'll tell you that right now. Will you be taking Kamala Harris bowling? After the election.
Yes. Okay.
Okay. All right.
There is no path to a Senate majority without re-electing Bob Casey. Okay? We absolutely have to do it.
And even beyond that, we need people like Bob Casey in politics. People are in it for the right reasons.
And so, Senator Casey, just for everyone here in the audience, but also all the people listening at home, can you just tell them where they can go to help your campaign? Two places. Go to BobCasey.com.

And, of course, for tonight's purposes, text POD to 51041.

Okay.

Everyone, give it up for Senator Casey.

Thanks, Dan.

Appreciate it.

Thank you, sir.

When we come back, a game.

Thanks. When we come back, a game.
How great is the map? We were talking about it backstage that on election night, we should see if we can lock Bob Casey into a room in Scranton and go to him like he's our... He's our Kornacki.
Steve Kornacki and John King up here. Let's go to Senator Casey with the screen.
Bob, what are you seeing out there? A pair of pleated khakis. That works for me.
Don't tip Bob Casey with a good time. That was one of the nerdiest things that's ever happened at a Pod Save America live show.
And I love it. Tough category.
I was really in my natural element right there. I was for the real sickos.
Yeah. The county by county map of Pennsylvania and what we need out of it.
I love it. It's going to work great in the audio.
Pate America now on YouTube. I will say when to you, we'll be like, oh, I love watching your show.

That's a good, so maybe that'll be good for them.

All right.

Let me tell you, the young people are watching you on YouTube.

That's right.

I teach a class, I'm a fellow at Georgetown this semester,

and they all said, I hear you have a show,

but I saw you on Pod Save America,

and I was like, well, damn.

Yes, I do.

On the TikTok, you know.

Now it's time to learn a bit more

About Senator Casey's Republican challenger

Dave McCormick

In a game we're calling

There are people

In a game we're calling

There are people from Connecticut

And then there are people who seem like they invented the idea of Connecticut

Alright

Simone and John are a team

Thank you. all right simone and john are a team dan and tommy are a team good luck let's do this let's do this first question start with john and simone in 2022 dave mccormick spent this much of his own money to lose a primary to tv doctor and puppy killer dr oz is Is it $2 million, $7 million, $10 million, or $14 million? $10? $14.
We're going to go with $10. Incorrect.
$14. It is $14.
We shall listen to the crowd. We shall listen to the crowd.
Dan and Tommy, true or false, Dave McCormick lives in Pennsylvania.

False.

Yes, we'll accept false.

Depends on who you ask, but he owns a house in Pittsburgh,

but all records indicate that Dave McCormick lives almost exclusively on Connecticut's Gold Coast,

one of the densest concentrations of wealth in the world. Fucking Connecticut.
Connecticut, boo. Boo! Boo! Which of these Philadelphia film icons, John and Simone, would win a fight? This one is an objective question.
Rocky from the film Rocky, or The Blob from the 1958 film The Blob? Who would win in a fight? Some of these are not politics. And that's okay.
We're going to go with Rocky? Yeah. Come on, Philly! Yeah! Come on, Philly! I want you to think that fucking through.
What is Rocky Balboa going to do? He's going to punch the blob to death? This is the kind of... You got to get practical.
You got to get real. This is how Trump happens.
Wishful fucking thinking. It's a close election.
The blob would beat Rocky. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. Boomy.
I don't care. Boomy Boomy Before we proceed with this game I think everyone should know that John Leavitt was raised a Mets fan Our mascot is just a big baseball I would like you all to know the gentleman in this third row just adjusted his filly.
Yeah, I saw that too.

That's right. That's right.
That's right. That's right.
In any other city, in any other city, I would have played the Mets theme song. But only in this city am I afraid some of you have batteries on you.
You absolute animals. You fucking freaks.
I just

I love the animals. You fucking freaks.

I just, I love the,

I love saying that the Mets have a theme song.

Yeah, okay. I don't have my phone.

Meet the Mets.

Greet the Mets.

There we go. There we go.

There we go.

Now I feel

they're home.

Dan and Tommy.

Yes.

Which of these

four positions

has McCormick taken on abortion in the last two years? Is it A, when asked if there should be exceptions for rape and incest, McCormick said, I believe in the very rare instances there should be exceptions for the life of the mother. B, I believe that life begins at conception through natural death and I'll be a stalwart defender of life and we have to change the law on life.
C, I would not favor any abortion ban of any kind, any legislation to support a national abortion ban. Or D, overturning Roe would be a huge step forward and a huge victory for the protection of life.
Is there an all the above option? All the above, yeah. Yeah, there's an all the above option.
All the above. Yes, he has taken all those positions in the last like fucking two years the the casey uh campaign put these two moments side by side these are his most recent debates um and the thing that i said in that debate i did say and i'd also said before that and after that how about you exceptions in your view i believe in the very rare instances there should be exceptions for for life of the mother i would not favor an abortion ban of any kind, legislation to support a national abortion ban.
I'm a pro-life candidate on my position on abortion. And it's something that we need to get past.
If it does, I would embrace it and I would be very, very happy about it. Honey, the archives do not lie, but they always tell us sorry they do what a head's very square it's like it's like if someone's fan okay no he's this fucking guy is not a mets fan i don't know what he's a fan of but it's the yankees fan honestly this is a yanke fan.
We can unite against our common enemy, the Yankees. I'm Liz Cheney.
Trump is the Yankees. All right.
John and Simone. Before he left to run against Dr.
Oz in the 2022 Republican Senate primary, Dave McCormick was the CEO of the largest hedge fund in America. While on the campaign trail, he's called U.S.
investments in Chinese companies an existential threat. Which of the following is not a real investment made by Dave McCormick's gigantic hedge fund while he was a CFO? Is it A, Chinese fentanyl, fentanyl made by the largest manufacturer of synthetic opiates in China.
Is it B, the Chinese military industrial complex, including those that make stealth bombers and

missiles, which both the Biden and Trump administration blacklisted for being part

of China's surveillance complex?

C, Iranian weapons manufacturers, including companies that make assault weapons and grenade

launchers companies Pennsylvania's treasury has specifically divested from, or D, all of the above?

Got to be D.

What do you think? Is it D? It's D. What? Yeah.
Fucked up. I just lost Simone's vote.
What? Yeah. Also, also, shorted seven American-owned steel companies.
So that's pretty neat. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Not good. Very bad.
Very bad. Dan and Tommy, you're looking through your calendar and realize you have double-booked dates with Gritty and the Philly Phonetic.
Who are you canceling on? Who are you canceling on? Can I just say something also? Actually, you guys answer. I don't think we could cancel a date with the Philly Fanatic while the Phillies are in the Major League Baseball playoffs.
Yeah, I'm canceling the date with Gritty because that's going to end badly. I think, look, I will just say, when I was eight years old, I went to a birthday party where the Philly Fanatic was, and it was a highlight of my life.
Okay. Unfortunately, and I honestly I mean this with nothing but love for the Philly Fanatic.

That is incorrect, but not because

you wouldn't prefer to go on a date with the Philly Fanatic.

It's that if you cancel a date with Gritty, Gritty comes to your house.

By the way, it is also a testament

to this

city that in a city

filled with symbols of patriotism

and democracy, you could have chose anything with symbols of patriotism and democracy,

you could have chose anything that's real, that exists,

animals, objects to be your mascots.

I have a question for the- You chose invented monsters.

I have a question for the moderator.

What do you think the name of Philadelphia's NFL team is?

What?

What do you think the name of Philadelphia's NFL team is?

I know that that's the Eagles now that you say it.

But I'm just saying, what the fuck is a fanatic? What's gritty? All right. John, Simone.
How did Dave McCormick pronounce the name of this beer, a Pennsylvania Erogeron? Oh, he did. What did he say? Simone, how did he pronounce this beer? We're about to do a real reveal.
If you to any of the interview I just did with Senator Casey Were you peeing during the first question, John? I had to pee Did he say Did he say I think he said Yangling That's correct He called it a Yangling I thought you guys needed to be introduced to Yangling. Yeah.
Yangling beer. Oh, he did that on the Ruthless podcast? Crazy.
Terrible podcast. He did this on a show named after the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
It is a show. That's not a joke.
It is called Ruthless because it is named after the sadness of liberals upon the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. And that's like the moderate show.
That's like the establishment cuck show. Yeah, that's why it's called Ruthless.
Because we are ruthless. And they are ruthless.
You see, it's a good name. I mean, if you think about it, it's clever.
It's evil. Okay.
Thank you.

The Phillies,

the Phillies jumping out.

We got to get out of here.

People been drinking.

The Phillies won.

We got to keep this moving.

All right.

It's getting dangerous.

It's getting scary in here.

Grease the light poles.

All right.

Anybody can jump.

Oh,

yes.

Which of the,

who's up?

Dan and, Dan and, Dan and Tommy. All right.
Anybody can jump. Oh, yes.
Which of the following? Who's up? We're up.

No, we're up.

We're up there.

Dan and Tommy.

Which of the following is not a huge faux pas Dave McCormick committed in public?

Is it A, calling a drink from Wawa a big gulp?

B, tried to blame Bob Casey for inflation by pointing to Hershey Park ticket prices only

for the park to call him out on Twitter for lying?

C, fear-mongered over a video of a shooting in, only for everyone to point out the video is from Philadelphia, Mississippi. Or D.
Try to add caviar to a Philly cheesesteak. D.
That's correct. That was too much.
But you can see it. But you can see it.
And you kind of want to try it. Alright.
Yes, the man is a flub machine. He did all those things.
He called the wah-wah Big Gulp. That's crazy.
How is this close? He's not from here. Go! Burn! What was that? And you know what that sound means.
It's time for the lightning round where the points really matter. This week, it's time for a segment we call Oh No, Dave McCormick Screwed Up Buying Sandwiches Again.
Literally on Friday, Max's Steaks, the North Philly site of a Dave McCormick campaign stop to reach black voters, said the Republican Senate candidate is not welcome back.

Why?

Because Max's Steaks was not told the event was a Dave McCormick campaign stop.

Instead, they were told it was an event to benefit what?

Simone and John. Was that restaurant told that it was an event for Philly's public schools, autism awareness, the local ASPCA, or the Philadelphia Spotted Lantern Fly Attack League?

What do you think? Was's the first one? The schools? I think we should listen to the crowd. Yeah, that's a good idea.
A. No.
You're all saying different things. Mixed reviews here.
This is the problem. What was the first one? It's Philly schools, autismism Awareness, the local ASPCA.
A, yeah.

A.

Incorrect.

B.

It was B.

They were told it was about autism awareness.

Max's Stakes was told that the Dave McCormick campaign stop was an event to benefit Autism Awareness.

In fact, the manager of Max's said he agreed to have the event because his niece and nephew

have autism.

Said the manager, as McCormick's campaign was wrapping up, we didn't sign up for that

at all. Zero.
I could throw them all out of here, but I'm going to nice do your thing when you're done leave you're not welcome back okay hold up no no no no how did they say yes to the event thinking it was the autism people did they get an email like did they not check the email why did we ask follow-up questions such an. Let's get to the bottom of it.
Organizer Sheila Armstrong, who has been a member of Moms for Liberty, reportedly reached out to the venue and told them the event was for her nonprofit, Cooking for Autism. She never mentioned the Dave McCormick part.
When asked if the Dave McCormick campaign stop qualified as an autism awareness event, how did Armstrong reply? Tommy and Dan. A.
Yes, we apologize for the confusion and we're going to find the person responsible. B.
Yes, and I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to the woke media. C.
Yes, it's always autism awareness because I am an education advocate. Or D.
Whoops, what a mistake. S-T-E-A-K.
I feel like B. I feel like B too.
like B too Oh if only it were It's C It's always autism awareness That's right Wow Isn't that amazing But why didn't they stop the event when they started putting the signs up Because they were being nice Because it's a strange thing to think you're going to have an autism awareness event. And all of a sudden, Dave McCormick's out there being like, vote for me.
That's a weird thing. Your job is to serve sandwiches.
You're not in the game of kicking out political candidates. It's a strange situation.
They handled it the best they could. I'm glad they told the story.
My first job was at a chicken spot in North Omaha, Nebraska, and we would have shut it down. All right.
This can be for anybody. Final question.
Almost immediately after leaving Max's stakes, Dave McCormick was kicked out of a local church. The pastor was concerned conservatives would accuse his congregation of doing what? We can't stop! What did they say? Dogs was the crowd answer.'s right that's right after walking next door to east bethel baptist church which was having a fundraiser for its food ministry the reverend asked the republican candidate staff to leave because he did not want photos of congregation to be used by the campaign saying i don't want to be accused i don't want my parishioners to be accused of eating cats and dogs.

Shout out to that reverend.

Okay.

Shout out to the reverend.

Sad he even had to say that.

Simone, you won the game

because you would have kicked them out.

I would have put them out, yeah.

John didn't win.

Only Simone won.

Why not?

That's fine.

I'm still reeling from

Dave McCormick's campaign here.

Guys, come on. Don't let Dave McCormick win.
Don't let Dave McCormick win. That's our game.
That's our show for tonight. Go out there and elect Bob Casey, elect Kamala Harris.
Thank you to Simone Sanders Townsend. Thank you to Bob Casey.
Go to VoteSaveAmerica.com. Let's win this thing.
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Our producer is David Toledo. Our associate producers are Saul Rubin and Farrah Safari.
Reed Cherlin is our executive editor and Adrian Hill is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.
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Thanks to our digital team,

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Molly Lobel, Kirill Pellaviv, and David Toles. The road is calling.
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