The Echo in the Machine

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Speaker 2 to Radio Lab. Lab.
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Speaker 2 So, let me just, we are recording. Good.

Speaker 7 This is Radio Lab. I'm Lila Miller.
And today, producer Simon Adler brings us a story from

Speaker 2 my mother's living room watching the television with her.

Speaker 7 This is what we love in our reporting. They scour the earth far and wide.

Speaker 2 Oh yeah, going to unknown exciting places like the shag carpeted living room of my mother.

Speaker 2 No, and so we're sitting there and you know, my mother's hearing, it's not what it once was. And so like most nights, she was watching with the closed captioning on.
Oh, absolutely same.

Speaker 2 All right, right on.

Speaker 2 Anyhow, I think it it was the local news

Speaker 2 literally talking about things like filling up potholes. Okay.

Speaker 2 And as I'm sitting on the floor, sort of bored out of my gourd,

Speaker 2 I have one of those moments where a genuine question

Speaker 2 popped into my head,

Speaker 2 which was

Speaker 2 those closed captions on the screen, you know, how did those get there?

Speaker 7 Like, is there someone in Sandusky typing as fast as they can?

Speaker 2 Exactly. Right.
Like, is it a human sitting in an office? Yeah. Or, and this was sort of my real question: like, is this one of those jobs that AI has already taken and replaced us? Okay, okay.

Speaker 7 Did you have a hunch?

Speaker 2 I thought it was probably AI, just based on my own real world experience. Based on life right now.
Right.

Speaker 2 And I also thought then that, you know, like one quick question to chat GPT and we're going to get to the bottom of this. Right.

Speaker 2 Turns out that was not

Speaker 2 the case here.

Speaker 2 As I looked into this,

Speaker 2 yeah, I found it was cacophonous in a way I didn't expect.

Speaker 2 I found ladies swearing at their televisions, students demanding to be heard, and maybe oddest of all, a whole chorus of voices offering us a path through the strange future we seem to be walking into.

Speaker 7 Okay.

Speaker 2 Subtitles called closed captioning.

Speaker 8 Access to television.

Speaker 2 It puts words into your world. Closed caption.
Closed caption. Say you want to be excited.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 9 Greg is signing.

Speaker 7 I will be speaking.

Speaker 8 Okay, just signing. And not signing.
I'm just psyched. Okay.

Speaker 2 Right, you're good. Seems like the best place to start is, you know, all the way back at the beginning.

Speaker 9 One, two, three, four, five is fine. That's great.

Speaker 2 Okay. That's great.
With this guy?

Speaker 9 My name is Greg Leibach.

Speaker 2 And his interpreter.

Speaker 11 Brenda Kelly Fry, certified interpreter for the deaf.

Speaker 2 Today, Greg is an attorney with a coiff of silver hair, thin-rimmed glasses. He was born deaf in Queens, New York.

Speaker 9 Less than, I don't know, one and a half miles from the New York Mets Stadium near the airport. And I come from a deaf family, my parents and two brothers and one sister.

Speaker 2 And growing up, he says, you know, during the daytime, he felt pretty darn integrated into the larger hearing world.

Speaker 9 I had neighbors who were hearing and we all associated with each other, communicated with each other. We stayed outside all day until the dinner bell rang.

Speaker 2 But in the evening,

Speaker 2 you know, when all good Americans turned on their TVs,

Speaker 9 he was not. It was pointless to watch except for maybe football and baseball games because there was basically no captioning.

Speaker 9 We'd have to look at the TV guide and, you know, they had a symbol that said CC.

Speaker 2 News broadcasts, the occasional special. That was about it.
And it very well might have stayed stayed that way if it hadn't been for Greg.

Speaker 9 I guess you could say so.

Speaker 2 And so, fast forwarding, it is the spring of 1988 on the campus of Gallaudet University. The campus is beautiful and gated.
The students are in lots of denim and oversized sweatshirts.

Speaker 2 I mean, it is your standard-looking college,

Speaker 2 with one exception.

Speaker 13 It was nearly 100%

Speaker 13 deaf.

Speaker 12 In fact, it was basically the only four-year liberal arts college for deaf students in the world.

Speaker 2 This is disability rights attorney Karen Pelt-Strauss.

Speaker 13 I was on the staff of Gallaudet's National Center for Law and Deafness at the time.

Speaker 2 She is fluent in sign language. And in 1988, on campus, she says, tensions were high because.

Speaker 13 The position for Gallaudet's president opened up. And until that time, Gallaudet, it had always had a hearing president.

Speaker 2 Yeah, in its 124-year history, all of them were hearing.

Speaker 7 Missed opportunity in the leadership department.

Speaker 2 Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 13 And so the students on the campus said, you have got to choose a deaf president. And the faculty said the same, and the staff said the same.

Speaker 2 And according to Greg, I was a junior.

Speaker 9 I was in my junior year.

Speaker 2 Who was actually the student body president as all this was going down?

Speaker 2 He and his classmates.

Speaker 9 We were very optimistic.

Speaker 2 Because of the three finalists for the job, two of them, Harvey Corsons and I. King Jordan, they were deaf.

Speaker 2 And the third candidate, a woman by the name of Elizabeth Zinzer, not only was she not deaf, she didn't even know sign language. No.
Okay. Okay.

Speaker 9 I mean, Zinzer had no support on campus.

Speaker 2 And so, March 6th, 1988.

Speaker 8 Students here behind me have been waiting all day outside the gates of Galludate University, while inside the Board of Trustees have been meeting trying to pick a new president.

Speaker 9 We were all gathered in the gym, in the field house, waiting for them to make the announcement. And around, say, seven o'clock.

Speaker 2 It happened.

Speaker 14 We picked Dr. Elizabeth Ann Zinzer as the seventh president of Gallaudet.

Speaker 14 Because

Speaker 14 she is a very talented educator.

Speaker 7 Oh, no. Oh, no.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 They went with the hearing lady.

Speaker 15 Elizabeth Ann Zinzer, she is the new president of Gallaudet University. Dr.

Speaker 16 Elizabeth Zinzer, who is neither deaf nor able to speak sign language.

Speaker 11 Why?

Speaker 7 Did they say why?

Speaker 2 Well, at least one of the explanations was pretty darn ugly.

Speaker 8 The university trustee's chairman defended the selection, saying deaf people are not ready to function in the hearing world.

Speaker 2 And the students, well,

Speaker 2 they go berserk.

Speaker 9 We were all upset.

Speaker 9 I'm so damn angry that you make me up.

Speaker 5 Very upset.

Speaker 9 We've just felt like somebody just slapped us in the face.

Speaker 2 Things were escalating.

Speaker 9 Everybody was on the streets. And escalating.
I mean, people were throwing things.

Speaker 2 And escalating.

Speaker 9 Then I told them, stop.

Speaker 9 Do not damage. Do not vandalize anything.
No violence, please.

Speaker 9 Because I knew that many people don't have the experience of seeing deaf people. We were sending the wrong impression.
We're sending the wrong message.

Speaker 9 Sometimes, you know, the first impression is the lasting impression. So I didn't want the hearing people seeing us as a wild bunch of people.

Speaker 9 So you know, we gathered at the front of the gate in front of campus, said, let's get organized.

Speaker 9 And that's when we started making plans.

Speaker 2 First things first, Greg and a couple of the others.

Speaker 9 We drove to buy a chain from the hardware store. We brought the chain back and we locked all of the gates on campus.

Speaker 2 They hotwire some of the school buses and drive those in front of the gates?

Speaker 9 Blocking those entrances.

Speaker 2 Huh? So now it's really blocked off.

Speaker 7 Fatten down the hatches of the whole university. Yes.

Speaker 2 And in the morning, as the administration arrived.

Speaker 17 We don't want the university to open. We want a deaf president first.

Speaker 9 99 Acres was totally shut down.

Speaker 2 The students vowing to keep it that way until the board replaced Zinzer with a deaf president now.

Speaker 8 Deaf president now! Now!

Speaker 9 That was it.

Speaker 16 Students succeeded in shutting down the school in peaceful protest.

Speaker 2 Picture folks on each other's shoulders, waving signs, banging drums.

Speaker 2 Almost immediately, faculty and staff like Karen joined the cause.

Speaker 12 We had a great time.

Speaker 9 It was a party. We marched around, we had different presentations, and we had doughnuts.

Speaker 2 And at least once, they pulled the fire alarm, which didn't bother the students, but bothered anyone who could hear. Oh,

Speaker 2 metal. That's awesome.

Speaker 2 By the end of the first day, Greg had become the official spokesperson.

Speaker 16 We have the president of the student body, Greg Leibaugh.

Speaker 2 And by the second day, media from all over the country had poured in.

Speaker 15 In their signing and in their faces, you see their convictions.

Speaker 10 PBS, ABC.

Speaker 16 Demonstrations continue.

Speaker 2 I mean, this became a national news story, culminating with Greg appearing

Speaker 2 a nightline to debate the incoming president, Elizabeth Zinser. Really?

Speaker 16 Dr. Zinzer, please go ahead.

Speaker 18 Thank you, Ted. As president of Gallaudet University, I want to indicate that the university is an extraordinary institution.

Speaker 18 It deserves to have the continuing strength into the future in its mission as an educational institution.

Speaker 16 Excuse me.

Speaker 17 Are you implying that a deaf person can't continue that for the future? Not at all.

Speaker 7 Okay, so that's Greg. So, Greg in the red tie-gray suit?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got like a split screen going on.

Speaker 2 There are captions on the bottom of the screen, and Greg, who you're about to hear again, talking through an interpreter, is on the right side of the split screen.

Speaker 17 If they haven't provided any deaf leaders, then obviously Gallaudet hasn't done a good job. If they have done a good job, then there should be a deaf president, someone qualified to do this.

Speaker 7 So intense.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 it gets heated. Like as Zinzer tries to get going here again.

Speaker 18 What I'm really saying is that I do believe that deaf individuals have great capacities.

Speaker 2 He cuts her off again.

Speaker 18 I truly believe that a deaf individual one day will be the president.

Speaker 17 No, that's old news.

Speaker 17 I'm tired of that statement. One day, again and again, Sinclair.

Speaker 16 All right, folks, let me excuse me one second. Let me ask.

Speaker 7 Okay, so this debate was captioned. Do you think that was like a special move?

Speaker 2 Or was it? Yeah, so this broadcast was actually open captioned, meaning that everybody who tuned in saw the captioning on the bottom of the screen. Okay.

Speaker 2 However, like that was not the case for the vast majority of the coverage of the Deaf President Now protests. And in fact, even

Speaker 2 the broadcasts that were closed captioned,

Speaker 2 like to receive those closed captions, to get them to show up on your screen, you needed to have one of these very expensive, clunky decoders. So ABCs.

Speaker 11 Like in your house.

Speaker 2 In your house connected to your television. Think of it like a VCR, but it's a VCR that just allows your television to receive the closed captions.

Speaker 7 So very few people of just like the general American public would be seeing these captions.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, like nobody.

Speaker 7 Yeah.

Speaker 7 Which like

Speaker 7 it's so

Speaker 7 frustrating to think that was like the day-to-day norm for deaf folks at that time. But I mean, there's just something like particularly

Speaker 7 frustrating to imagine like the folks who can't access a broadcast that is literally concerning their rights and their access, you know?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I think that's probably part of why you see this sort of chain reaction of events coming out of this moment. So less than a week after the protest starts.

Speaker 2 Zinzer resigned and was quickly replaced by one of the deaf finalists, I-King Jordan.

Speaker 9 Everyone Everyone was just signing and jumping and cheering and screaming and everybody was so happy.

Speaker 2 But then you also have a whole bunch of laws get passed in the years following.

Speaker 2 This thing called the Decoder Act that required all televisions to have that closed captioning decoder built into it, a little thing called the Americans with Disabilities Act,

Speaker 2 and eventually

Speaker 2 the 1996 Telecommunications Act. And that bill basically is what brings captioning into living rooms everywhere.

Speaker 7 And the mandate is what?

Speaker 2 It's that by like the early 2000s, all new English language broadcast television had to be closed captioned.

Speaker 7 All, everything that goes out.

Speaker 2 With like very, very few exceptions, everything has to be captioned.

Speaker 2 And I mean, Karen and Greg, they were central in pushing this requirement into the bill.

Speaker 7 Wow.

Speaker 2 Like, that is such a, like, go Greg, like, go, Greg, go, Karen. I mean, that's a huge win.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they say, like, it all sort of started at Gallaudet.

Speaker 2 That's absolutely correct. Once more, Karen Peltstrauss.

Speaker 13 The protest introduced society to the way that deaf people communicate. They introduced society to captioning and sign language interpreters, and they impacted congressional votes.

Speaker 2 yeah so that's the why yeah right yeah like why we have all of these closed captions today but the how

Speaker 2 like how they were going to make all of these hours and hours and hours of those closed captions well that's where this story gets just delightful number one and number two i think starts to say a bit about what what the future of access to information and media is going to look like for for all all of us.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 we will get to that in a moment. But first.

Speaker 19 I mean, up to that point, live closed captioning had only ever been produced through highly trained, specialized stenographic shorthand.

Speaker 2 Imagine a court reporter with a strange keyboard.

Speaker 7 Just like fire fingers.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Okay.
That is how captions are being made. So you've got dozens, perhaps hundreds of people sitting in offices with the television

Speaker 2 being pumped into their ears through headphones, and they're just typing away at lightning speeds.

Speaker 19 But by the beginning of 2003, it was becoming apparent that not enough steno writers were available to match the growing amount of content that needed to be captioned.

Speaker 19 This is Meredith Patterson, president at the National Captioning Institute.

Speaker 2 And back when she joined basically as an entry-level employee, she was handed this problem. Yes.

Speaker 19 At the very beginning.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So you are there. You're this like junior member of staff.

Speaker 19 I was very junior. And maybe that's why I was tasked with experimenting with some software that we called the black box.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 19 It was. basically a very simple early days speech recognition technology.

Speaker 2 You know, like a speech transcriber. And her hope was that she could just take a live television feed.

Speaker 16 Good evening, everyone. I'm Kevin Christopher.

Speaker 2 I'm Nancy Cox, plug it in,

Speaker 2 and create the captions that way.

Speaker 2 However,

Speaker 2 when she tried that,

Speaker 19 it was inaccurate. It would miss a lot of content.

Speaker 2 Little things like the news broadcaster throwing to the weatherman would totally trip it up.

Speaker 2 It didn't include punctuation and accents of any kind were an issue. However, what it could do pretty darn well was transcribe her voice, which led to a sort of crazy idea.

Speaker 2 Could you just like, could you do the thing that we're about to talk about?

Speaker 19 Could you do the thing that we are about to talk about, question mark?

Speaker 2 Okay, so let's try it a little bit faster. So let's try it a little bit faster.
I won't be stopping so much. No, I won't be stopping.

Speaker 20 We're talking about the news.

Speaker 2 It's going

Speaker 2 going to be talking about it.

Speaker 19 It is going to be a very interesting day today.

Speaker 2 What if she just echoed every word said on television into the computer?

Speaker 2 Maybe she could close caption that way. Period.

Speaker 2 Okay, yep, you can do it. Wow.
Oh

Speaker 7 my

Speaker 2 God.

Speaker 2 She called it.

Speaker 19 Voice writing.

Speaker 7 Voice writing. Huh.

Speaker 2 That's a funny name for like being a parrot, being a human parrot. Why is that so comic? It's just so funny.
Oh, Lulu, we are just getting started here.

Speaker 2 So first things first, to see if this was even possible.

Speaker 19 I would sit in the back of the room during internal meetings.

Speaker 2 Picture just a sterile conference room with a dropped ceiling.

Speaker 19 Trying to be innocuous, repeating everything they said.

Speaker 19 Everything. I practiced at home sometimes on just random newscasts or people on TV.

Speaker 2 And well, she got really, really good at this.

Speaker 2 Like, that didn't mean that the captions were coming out really good, really well.

Speaker 2 As she started doing this, echoing into the computer over and over again, it would miss words or have trouble understanding her, her English, her voice.

Speaker 2 And so Meredith decided to meet the machine where it was at.

Speaker 2 She set out to learn to speak computer.

Speaker 2 And we are going to get to that. And we are going to get to that.

Speaker 2 Right after a quick break. Right after a click make.

Speaker 2 Period.

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Speaker 2 Step in, I'm going to call you right back to see if that fixes the echo. Okay.

Speaker 11 Sure, sure, Simon. Call me right back.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 7 Radiolab Lulu here with Simon Adler, who is telling us a story about how student protests led to a mandate that closed captions be beamed through all of our screens.

Speaker 7 And we were just moving on to the wild, echoey way that captioners hoped to actually get them to us.

Speaker 2 That's right. Voice writing.

Speaker 2 And along with Meredith, who you heard before the break. Let's see.
One, two, three, four, five. I don't know why that fixed it, but it did.
Yeah.

Speaker 11 Strange.

Speaker 2 Okay. Okay.
This lady right here, Stephanie Vaverka, director of production at the National Captioning Institute, set out to figure this out. Okay, so here's my first question for you.
Yes, sir.

Speaker 2 And I noticed this with Meredith as well. I think your voices have been forever changed by the work that you have done.

Speaker 2 There is a precision. and a spacing that makes sure that not a single syllable goes by without the listener being able to catch what it was.

Speaker 2 Do you think I'm right?

Speaker 11 I think you are

Speaker 2 mostly right, yes.

Speaker 11 Okay. Well, let me back up.
When we began with this voice writing line of work, the computer software wanted to hear you sounding like a computer.

Speaker 2 What would that sound like?

Speaker 2 Can I get a demo?

Speaker 10 Absolutely.

Speaker 11 That would sound like something like this,

Speaker 11 something that is very articulate and also very robotic, hyphen sounding, period. Very quick, sometimes clipped.
I hear you laughing. I know.
This is how we spoke for hours and hours of our day.

Speaker 2 She says her vocabulary had to change as well.

Speaker 11 Yes, because there were certain difficult words for the software to distinguish. For example, in, and, and, and.

Speaker 2 Like she'd say into the computer and, but it would hear and, or she'd say, in,

Speaker 2 and it would hear and.

Speaker 2 and so the workaround she found was to train the computer to hear a specific real word when she would say a totally made-up word like a little code

Speaker 2 yes so she instead of saying the word in

Speaker 2 i n she would say inly inly inly i n l y inly which the computer would then hear and print on the screen as in well how did you how did you go home at the end of the day and start talking like a normal person again?

Speaker 11 It could be difficult to speak like a normal person after leaving. This job really did change me.

Speaker 2 Because Inley was really, well, only just the beginning.

Speaker 2 I mean, once she figured out this hack, she began developing and deploying hundreds and hundreds of code words to work around the software's shortcomings.

Speaker 11 Homophones could be very difficult for the software. 2-2 and 2, for example.

Speaker 2 The fix?

Speaker 11 Tuku for T-W-O, Tutaloo for T-O-O.

Speaker 11 So if a sentence is, she has two daughters in college, too,

Speaker 11 I would echo that as, she has tuku daughters in Lee College, comma, tootaloo, period.

Speaker 2 So that is.

Speaker 2 Wait, say that once more. Say that one, say it again.

Speaker 11 She has tuku daughters in Lee College, comma, tutaloo. I mean, it's a whole language that you then have to remember and follow.

Speaker 2 As Stephanie's brain melded further and further with her machine, she figured out she could trick it in other ways to make her life easier.

Speaker 6 So, for example, my fellow Americans.

Speaker 11 Back when George W. Bush was still in office, that's how he was referred to on the air.
George W. Period Bush.

Speaker 2 Eight syllables way too many to spit out over and over again.

Speaker 11 And so, I trained my software to print George W. Period Bush when I said GB.

Speaker 11 I accept your nomination.

Speaker 11 Hillary Clinton became Hilco. Barack Obama became Bombo.
Rudy Giuliani at the time was Ruju.

Speaker 19 Question mark. That is too many syllables.

Speaker 2 Again, Meredith Patterson.

Speaker 19 I trained the system every time I said poof,

Speaker 19 it would print the question mark symbol.

Speaker 2 They learned they could trick it into not hearing and printing certain words, both the obvious ones.

Speaker 19 The software had a bit of a naughty side and would produce the most inappropriate choice when it had the ability to do so. And so I spent an entire day of work saying

Speaker 19 every profanity word you could come up with into the system.

Speaker 2 Programming them out.

Speaker 7 So if it hurt, it would just do nothing?

Speaker 2 Exactly. So neat.
And then there were some weird ones that they had to program out as well.

Speaker 11 The word garage.

Speaker 11 Because when you're captioning local news, a lot of things happen in the garage. The fire started in the garage, the man hid in the garage.

Speaker 2 But when Stephanie would echo the word garage into the computer, the software would, nearly without fail,

Speaker 2 print crotch, creating some wonderful misunderstandings.

Speaker 20 A mole couple has transformed their crotch into a haven for rock climbers,

Speaker 20 helping to address a community need that we weren't even aware of.

Speaker 2 And I mean, this thing, voice writing, well, it became the industry standard for closed captioning. I mean, if you ever saw a closed caption after 2003, it was probably

Speaker 2 put there through this technique.

Speaker 19 At our peak, we had over 150 voice writers, and that was

Speaker 19 across the country. We had a lot of people in California, aspiring actors, and they were probably captioning 400 to 500 hours a day.

Speaker 10 A day. A day, yeah.

Speaker 2 Meaning thousands and thousands of hours of television each week were accessible to the deaf, and thousands and thousands of hours of work were spent by these voice writers really forming relationships with their machines.

Speaker 11 I think the best voice writers

Speaker 11 really learned how to move with the software, almost like dancing.

Speaker 11 Because it wasn't enough to just tell the software how to respond to you. You needed to respond to it to really achieve the highest accuracies when you were on the air.

Speaker 7 So is this how we are

Speaker 7 still doing it? Are the captions going through this like anonymous

Speaker 7 office building full of human parrots?

Speaker 2 Well, it's no longer really an office building because the pandemic has made a lot of this work remote now. Okay.
And

Speaker 2 the pandemic changed more than just where the captioning was being done.

Speaker 2 When the pandemic hits, due to everything going online, due to all of the constant press conferences happening, there is once more a flood of stuff that needs to be closed captioned.

Speaker 2 And now they don't have enough voice writers to cover all of this stuff. And so they are once again in this position of, oh man,

Speaker 2 how do we keep up?

Speaker 2 And by 2020,

Speaker 2 that technology they had started playing around with back in the early 2000s, just like the the black box, AI running the feed directly into the computer,

Speaker 2 it works pretty damn well. It works well enough that you basically no longer need a human in the system at all.
Meaning this dance,

Speaker 2 it's winding down. It's coming to an end.

Speaker 2 Today, Meredith says AI is doing around 50% of the closed captioning the National Captioning Institute is hired to do. Wow.

Speaker 2 And they haven't hired anyone to fill any roles that have become vacant in the last two years.

Speaker 7 Another human bites the dust.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think

Speaker 2 it's tough because I as a person,

Speaker 2 I as a professional am thinking and worrying a lot about how these new AI tools are going to impact me, my livelihood and my craft.

Speaker 2 And well, this is in one way a story about a bunch of people being replaced by those sorts of tools.

Speaker 2 It's also a little bit of a story about how to use those same tools with a smile to like approach those tools with some excitement and with some creativity.

Speaker 7 The tools that are that are replacing you.

Speaker 2 They may eventually, but like, yeah, why shouldn't you enjoy your time with the hand grenade before it goes off? You know, like, okay.

Speaker 7 Wait, wait, wait. But what, okay, what's your analogy here?

Speaker 2 Sure. I think what I'm trying to say is that our voice writers, they were trying to get their machine to produce accurate text.

Speaker 2 And of course, now we are asking AI to do all sorts of other things for us, from designing a drug to helping us process our feelings to making a picture to writing a song. But

Speaker 2 like, it can't do those things well without us. It needs us to help it, to play with it.

Speaker 2 And I mean, well, it is so easy to just be down or scared or turned off by these new tools.

Speaker 7 Or opposed to them for running on stolen human work and guzzling energy.

Speaker 2 Sure, yes, that too. But I think regardless of how you feel about these tools ethically, what these voice writers show

Speaker 2 that back and forth, that dance, it can yield some very unexpected and world-changing results.

Speaker 2 Positive world-changing results, like millions of people having access to information they otherwise would not have had.

Speaker 7 It is pretty tremendous what it's done for the disability community.

Speaker 7 And I do have to say, like just a few weeks after Chat GPT came out, this one professor I talked to who worked at a community college was just like, you know, for my ESL students, this is a game changer.

Speaker 7 Like, it's just awesome. This is an access thing.
It's an empowerment thing. It is good.
It is opening doors, you know?

Speaker 7 So access point of view, that is a nice way to

Speaker 7 not just feel afraid. I'll give you that.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And

Speaker 2 to be clear, I'm not here to say don't be scared or that the machine isn't going to eventually steamroll all of us,

Speaker 2 but

Speaker 2 we're not there yet. Yeah.
All we have is now, Lulu. And so maybe we should do our best to take a cue from these voice writers

Speaker 2 and, you know, dance with the machine for a bit.

Speaker 7 This episode was reported and produced by Simon Adler with original music and sound design by Simon Adler. It was edited by Pat Walters and fact-checked by Anna Pujol-Manzini.

Speaker 7 Special thanks to Elsa Sunason.

Speaker 7 And by the way, if you'd like to read this week's episode or pass a more accessible version along to a friend, you can, as always, find a transcript on our webpage or a closed-caption version on YouTube.

Speaker 21 Radio Lab was created by Jad Abumrod and is edited by Soren Wheeler. Lulu Miller and Latif Nasser are our co-hosts.
Dylan Keith is our director of sound design.

Speaker 21 Our staff includes Simon Adler, Jeremy Bloom, Becca Bressler, W.

Speaker 21 Harry Fortuna, David Gable, Rebecca Lacks, Maria Paz Gutierrez, Sindhu Nanyu Sambadam, Matt Kielty, Annie McEwen, Alex Neeson, Sara Cari, Sarah Sandback, Anissa Vitza, Arianne Wack, Pat Walters, Molly Webster, Jessica Young, with help from Rebecca Rand.

Speaker 21 Our fact-checkers are Diane Kelly, Emily Krieger, Anna Pujol-Matsini, and Natalie Middleton.

Speaker 22 Hi, I'm Daniel from Madrid. Leadership support from Radiolab Science Programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Tolpentol Foundation.

Speaker 22 Foundational support from Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Isla Foundation.

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